July 11, 2023 • 32 mins
Are you tired of endless piles of paperwork and countless hours of grading? Do you dream of a streamlined assessment process that saves you time and energy? In this episode, we delve into the game-changing strategies that will create LESS work for educators while maximizing student success.
Kareem Farah, the co-founder of the Modern Classrooms Project, and I uncover how to streamline assessment procedures, allowing you to focus on what truly matters: teaching. With examples of seamless assignment submission processes, this model will revolutionize the way you handle student work. Say goodbye to the hassle of paperwork and hello to a more efficient and organized approach!
We also reveal how these innovative practices create wins for struggling students. Are you ready for a paradigm shift in education? Discover how this transformative approach can solve many of the common problems faced by educators today. Embark on a journey toward a more efficient, engaging, and impactful learning experience for both educators and students. Your classroom will never be the same again!
Learn more about the Modern Classrooms Project👉🏼 https://www.modernclassrooms.org/
https://www.instagram.com/modernclassproj/
https://twitter.com/modernclassproj
Still figuring out lesson planning? Grab my free Lesson Planning Guide here 👉🏼https://teachersneedteachers.com/lessonplan
I have a new YouTube channel! Join me over there and subscribe!
Got questions, feedback, or want to be on the show? You can email me at kim@teachersneedteachers.com
Connect with me
Kareem Farah, the co-founder of the Modern Classrooms Project, and I uncover how to streamline assessment procedures, allowing you to focus on what truly matters: teaching. With examples of seamless assignment submission processes, this model will revolutionize the way you handle student work. Say goodbye to the hassle of paperwork and hello to a more efficient and organized approach!
We also reveal how these innovative practices create wins for struggling students. Are you ready for a paradigm shift in education? Discover how this transformative approach can solve many of the common problems faced by educators today. Embark on a journey toward a more efficient, engaging, and impactful learning experience for both educators and students. Your classroom will never be the same again!
Learn more about the Modern Classrooms Project👉🏼 https://www.modernclassrooms.org/
https://www.instagram.com/modernclassproj/
https://twitter.com/modernclassproj
Still figuring out lesson planning? Grab my free Lesson Planning Guide here 👉🏼https://teachersneedteachers.com/lessonplan
I have a new YouTube channel! Join me over there and subscribe!
Got questions, feedback, or want to be on the show? You can email me at kim@teachersneedteachers.com
Connect with me
- Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, or Stitcher
- Join my Facebook Group
- Message me through Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want
to just survive their first few yearsbut actually thrive. I've been teaching for
twenty two years, and I'm prettymuch set in the way that I teach
and do things in the way thatI run my classroom. But at the
same time, I've always wondered inthe back of my head, how could
I be a better teacher? Imean, I have a solid grasp of
(00:21):
classroom management and standards and what Ineed to teach the kids and even how
I want to teach them. Butat the same time, I know that
not everyone is having their needs met. I know that there are students that
are woefully behind and just don't reallywant to speak up about it and may
never catch up because I don't havetime. I also know that there are
students that are really ahead and arebored, and just because they like me,
(00:43):
they don't get themselves to the trouble. But I know that they really
need to be challenged. So whatam I supposed to do? In this
episode, which is part two ofa two part series about the Modern Classrooms
Project, the co founder of theModern Classrooms Project Kareem Farah and I are
discussing how to implement the model thathas really revolutionized teaching. Tens of thousands
(01:03):
of teachers are implementing this model andhave not only seen great gains in their
students, but they're actually catching upstudents who fell behind during the pandemic.
So if that's you and you reallywant to start being frustrated with teaching,
be sure to stick around, especiallyto the end where I talk about how
you can start doing this in yourclassroom right away. So if you miss
the first episode of this two partseries, be sure to go back to
(01:26):
that because Kareem and I discuss notonly what the Modern Classrooms project is,
but also how it works and howyou can start wrapping your brain around implementation.
In this particular interview, we're goingto be talking more about what it
looks like with assessment and what itlooks like in your classroom. So here
we go. So I wanted toswitch care real quick to implementation. So
(01:48):
hopefully we've convinced people that you know, this is something that will really have
an impact. It has had animpact because you have tens of thousands of
educators using this model. I willhave to say that it does look like
a lot of work. Like initially, I have always wanted to try this,
and it just seems like every dayI'm bouncing around the classroom as opposed
(02:14):
to I just have to deliver alesson and let kids work. I mean,
I'm not gonna lie. After twentytwo years of teaching, that's how
I keep myself from getting exhausted.But now it sounds like I'm having to
keep tabs on all thirty six ofmy students per period and it feels like
a lot of work. What doyou have to say to those of us
that are a little bit hesitant becauseof it? So, I mean,
(02:36):
the workload is on the prep,it's not on the actual classroom experience.
I mean, without a doubt,the educators who have done our model say
that they find the classroom experience substantiallyless stressful. In fact, eighty six
percent of educators who do our modelfind the job more sustainable. Ninety five
percent say they feel more optimistic aboutthe future of teaching. So I think
(03:00):
what you find is, once youactually get it off the ground and running
and can execute it, you willfind the job to be one that is
filled with more joy and one thatfeels like you can do it for a
longer period of time. There isa workload component on the front den that
is real, like you are changingthe way that you deliver instruction, which
(03:22):
means you need to change the waythat you created your resources. And in
that piece, you just have tobe disciplined around wanting to do that and
planning ahead of time. So mosteducators will plan a unit in advance.
They will invest a fair amount oftime in the summer to really think through
how they want to design their modernclassroom. But the beautiful thing with that
is once you plan it for yourcourse, it's planned. Like I have
(03:45):
to joke, I found it anonprofit in the third year of implementation because
all my courses were planned. SoI would come in every day, my
classroom would kind of run itself andI'd be the facilitator. I'd be grading
in the class period because I'd bedelivering live feedback. I had very little
planning to do it that All myvideos have been created and been used multiple
years. I made tweaks year overyear to make it right. So there's
(04:09):
also like this really cool feeling forthe first time when you design a modern
classroom, like the time that you'reputting into planning is not just necessary,
but it's actually paying back long termin the amount you work and kind of
what the classroom experience feels like.I think it was really frustrating for me
when I taught traditionally. I feltlike every minute I was adding to my
planning wasn't translating to any real gainsin the classroom. It was like I
(04:31):
was hitting a wall in that wallwasn't It wasn't. My ceiling on meeting
students needs wasn't in particularly high right. It was like a huge percentage of
students feel like they're not being ableto have their needs men, I have
no plan to address that. That'strue. If I have one or two
students that are far behind, Ihad to ask myself, what am I
going to squeeze in? Am Igoing to take up my lunch for them
(04:55):
to come in or after school?Do I just say oh well and move
on and hope they pick it upalong the way. So I could see
how, definitely how this would helpcatch them up. But the one thing
that also like it's not so mucha red flag, but I was concerned
about, is it feels like there'sa lot of assessing. So I mean,
maybe this is just me still tryingto grapple with this because it feels
(05:18):
like I have to do with thesechecks. Or do I just do a
check when they turn in the masterycheck and then have them go back and
redo it. Is it constant studentrevision? Or can I how do I
catch them before they even get tothat part? Because I'm a big believer
in not grading everything and really minimizingthe number of things that students submit,
(05:40):
because I think grading really sucks upa lot of our time. So you
all, I mean, first ofall, teachers do this in a million
different ways. So one of thekind of beautiful ways modern class from this
project views change in glassroom instruction isthat ultimately the educator decides how to do
the model, and the way isto do it correctly. There are some
educators who only grade mastery checks.There were some educators who grade every single
(06:02):
thing that a student turns, andthat is totally up to the educator.
What I would say is I coulduse by example, students had assignments they
were completing in activities, and thenthey had mastery checks that they completed,
and then there were summative assessments,and the summitive assessments are graded like all
smitive assessments are graded. You know, they're a bunch of skills in one
you grade them, and you don'tgrade for mastery there, you mean you
greade for mapstery. But a studentcan actually get a seventy percent on that.
(06:26):
Whenever I had assignments, I spotchecked assignments and I spot checked assignments,
and I used kind of the highleverage spots on the assignments where I
knew skills were being kind of tested, not like an assessment way, but
like a student was applying a newcomponent of the lesson. There. Let
me spot check this to see ifI'm seeing any glaring years. And that
was very quick, like I couldlook at that and within minute understand whether
(06:49):
a student was on the right trackor not on the right track. The
things that I graded closely were masterychecks. But one of the things that
teachers learned both in our mentorship programand the free course is mastery check must
be designed to be very easy tograde, and you must be able to
deliver multiple forms. But that isyour tool to understand whether the student has
actually understood the skill. So whena mass tree check comes in, they're
(07:11):
usually half sheets of paper one totwo questions. Don't worry about assessing every
single component of a lesson. Focuson those high leverage components the lesson and
those ones you should grade. Butyou're grading in class. You're literally doing
ninety percent of that grading live whenit comes in, and then you're deciding
whether that student has mastered the skillor you're going to pull them down.
So you're probably doing a little moregrading than you would in a traditional setting,
(07:33):
but you're spending a fairly large chunkof time doing that during the class
period. It's driving a lot ofthe discussions. Yeah okay, yeah,
so a lot of like over theshoulder, I can see what you're doing
right now grading, which I alsolike because again that's not something that I
have to create later on. I'mgrading in real time. So for you,
(07:56):
what did the students ever, like, physically or electronically submit? I
had two? I mean mine wasvery paper based. Sorry to the cling
like, well did they give youlike that? You actually collected? Yeah,
so you add two components of everylesson. Generally speaking, you had
your assignment. In some cases thatwas an activity they did on a piece
(08:16):
of paper. In some cases therewas a word sheet, in some cases
there was something they had to writeup. In some cases it was a
Google sheet where they'd grasp some dataand that would be the assignment component that
they would submit to me. Andif it was physical that i'd have been
there was blue colored. I believethat was from my assignments. And as
soon as you submit an assignment,UN grabbed your mastery check, which was
a half sheet of paper which wasyour actual end of lesson assessment, and
(08:39):
you would take that in a specialpart of the room. That special part
of the room was for match treechecks where you had to stay silent,
you had to do it independently,and they would turn that in. So
I would spot check the assignments andthen I would grade the mastery checks closely,
and in some cases I didn't eventouch the assignment. So if the
student was consistently getting the assignments correctlyand then able to tackle the mastery check,
(09:01):
but I would focus on the masterycheck, and if they didn't get
the mastery check right, then I'dpull their assignment out and I'd say,
let's see what you did here onthe assignment. Were you cruising on the
assignment or not? And if youwere in, let's try to figure out
where this misconception is and let's havea discussion, and then when you're ready,
you're going to go ahead and executethe actual mastery check again with different
sets of questions. So that's whatthey were turning in and generally speaking,
(09:22):
like, you know, if youhad a thirty student class period, let's
say on average, every kid turnedin at least one assignment. If thirty
assignments came in that day and anothereighteen mastery checks, I generally would get
through eighty percent of that grading inclass. Okay, that works. Yeah,
I like that because I couldn't wrapmy brain around around the assessment part,
(09:46):
because that's how you give the feedback. You know, we know that
timely feedback is really important, butit also sounds like if I'm doing over
the shoulder grading, if I'm gradingin real time, then I can give
that immediate feedback instead of typing itup and the student doesn't even look at
it. That's the most frustrating partis to spend the time and effort to
show them what they can improve,but then they would rather just move on
(10:07):
and take the sea or something likethat. I mean, the students in
a modern classroom demand feedback within twentyfour hours because they're used to get kind
that way, right. So likewhen a student is going to turn in
their assignment and mastery check, they'reexpecting to get feedback on that same day,
And if they don't get it sameday, they know they're going to
get in the beginning of the nextclass period. So there's this real kind
(10:28):
of pressure you put on yourselves.But expectations students have that they're going to
hear about their progress and performance almostimmediately after they submit something, or within
the next day that you return.And what if they don't hit mastery,
even though they've tried several times.At what point do they just get to
move on and say this is thebest that I can do? You know,
(10:52):
I don't actually think that that's reallyever a scenario that exists. I
mean, I think generally speaking,in modern classrooms, we're all very cognizant
the fact that you can demonstrate masterin a variety of ways. A student
might have a particular learning disability,or maybe they need to deliver their understanding
in an auditory fashion, right ormaybe they need to be having a conversation,
right, So there's a variety oftechniques you can use to assess for
(11:13):
mastery outside of one dimension. ButI think it's part of our ethos to
say that, you know, ifyou're in a math class or in English
class, like you need to masterhow to write a thesis statement, you
need to matchter how to add fractionsbefore you go divide fractions. And I
think in our in our environment,we're pretty committed to that idea. And
(11:35):
I think that means that students willget frustrated sometimes, which we kind of
love. I mean, I lovewhen students would say, just give me
the four out of ten, andI'd be like, I don't. I
don't speak that language in this classroom. I don't know what a four out
of ten is. What I knowis that you haven't understood how to add
fractions, and you're going to keepworking on that until you do, So,
you know, I don't think wereally ever think that a student is
not going to be able to matchthe scale. I think the reality is
(11:58):
time can run out on the burstof seas, meaning if you have to
master five skills in a week,you can run out of time. Then
if you do run out of time, then you may need to spend time
outside of the class period addressing it. I will say we do have a
must should do, aspire to doframework, which means we do isolate within
each burst of self pasting what skillsare mustus non negotiables, should dous,
(12:22):
which we'd like every student of master, and aspired to do, which be
extensions. So certainly students will notmaster should do as an aspire to do.
But I think it's those mustadudes thatwe do truly see as non negotiable.
And I also think that again goesback to your kind of data point
where if you have a student whoreally can't master the must do skills,
there's a broader conversation that needs tobe added with more supports at the school
(12:45):
to ask, hey, like,how come this? How come the students
really struggling with the most fundamental conceptsin my classroom? And how can we
create more supports to get them there? Right? Because I think about students
who are like reading below grade leveland so have a difficult time even just
accessing the text, and you know, I'll give them scaffolds for that,
(13:05):
But then if on that text,they still, like you said, can't
write a thesis statement or somewhearing well. Now for them to practice again,
they have during another text, whichI could see as being frustrating for them.
So I guess I would have tothink of ways for them to practice
without overloading them, you know,the mental load of all of that practice.
(13:28):
But I just know that they're justsometimes some students who after they're just
so used to giving up on themselves. So maybe this is like the way
to teach them to persevere and havesome grit, when other teachers would have
just said, okay, let's justmove on because we have to get through
the next lesson well. And that'swhy it's super important to engage in lesson
classifications because if you're going to havea student who struggles and doesn't have the
(13:52):
prerequisite skills, spend three class periodson a scale that one student is working
through in forty minutes, something hasto get right. You can't then expect
that a student to work three xthe amount of time on every skill.
And that's why important it's important tosay, if I have ten skills,
only five of these are mustus.And then when that student does master the
mustus skill you recognize and sure youmaster the muscles skill, You're not gonna
(14:13):
have to worry about the should newsand aspired news. I really want you
to focus on these five months doskills so student that they're getting something in
return, right, because otherwise,I mean in this I've had funny arguments
with Admin about this at times,because it's like, look, if you're
gonna if you're gonna have a groupof students who are ranging between a fifth
grade English level or reading level anda tenth grade reading level, to suggest
(14:35):
that they're all going to learn theexact same amount of skills at the exact
same pace in one hundred eighty onedays is just like living in lah lah
Land. That makes absolutely no sense, right, So we as to being
able to differentiate. Understand that somestudents by master one hundred skills in a
year, where another group of studentsmaster seventy five, and that's okay,
Let's not reduce the rigor of theseventy five. Let's just hold them to
(14:58):
the expectation of match and let's justreduce the amount of skills to master.
Okay, Now that works, Andthen I you know something that also that
I love to do in my classroomis have students work collaboratively. I would
say the majority of the time spentin my class is collaborative, but it's
all of the students working on thesame thing. And so how with your
(15:20):
model, how does collaboration work wheneveryone is self paced? So keep in
mind we're talking about self pacing atfive lessons at once, right, So
students are in the same group oflessons, and they're generally not particularly far
apart, right, because they're allin the same week or two weeks worth
of content. The second thing iswe structure collaboration in two ways. We
(15:43):
have what we call organic collaboration,and then we have what we call plant
collaboration. Organic collaboration is the ideathat I'm working in a self based learning
environment, and there are systems andstructures in place such that I work with
my peers to tackle these activities naturally. I often describe it as how you
would learn in college. Frequently,I'd bet a lot of learning in college
(16:04):
collaboratively. But it's not because myprofessor said, you know, go after
class and like meet at the cafeteriaand hang out with your friends. We
chose to do that because it helpedus in our mission to learn the content.
Planned collaboration is actually when we saywe're doing this activity on Tuesday,
everybody's doing it together, and it'sgoing to be a collaboration day or activity.
(16:29):
Those can beat PIDAA seminars, thosecan be labs, those can be
opening discussions. That's planned experiences thatare fundamentally designed that way. And then
there's a little there's there's examples whereyou can do a little bit of both,
meaning like the self pacing learning exerciseis designed to be done in pairs.
Go find someone who's on the sameliston as you are, and go
tackle this together. So there's kindof those two big buckets, and then
(16:52):
there's some overlap and you can getpretty creative with Okay, So I guess
then, rather than students being assignedto a seat permanently, it sounds more
like it's it's more of a flexiblestructure. Because you're going to be working
over here with someone else, you'realways going to be in this seat.
Yeah, I don't. There's rarelyassigned seats in modern classrooms. So frequently
(17:15):
you'll walk into a modern classroom andthey'll be group banks, they'll be you
know, everyone I lesson four isgoing to be at this table, everyone
I lesson five is from me atthis table, or they'll be heterogeneous group
bank. So there's but the classroomsactually quite um. The physical environment requires
a lot of movement because you're goingto go to certain places for master checks,
You're gonna go to certain places towatch instructional videos. So it's intentionally
(17:37):
designed to be a little bit likea little city that students are navigating,
as opposed to one where everyone's inthe same spot as they always are.
I could see some teachers bristling atthat because it sounds a little bit like
structured chaos when they're used to,you know, especially if you are used
as kids sitting in rows and um, you know, this is where you
sit and it's always going to belike like. So I could see that
(18:03):
it could be frustrating for them.I could see it as a hard transition.
Is it supposed to be an easytransition, but it's supposed to be
one that's good for them and theirstudents, So totally. I mean,
we describe our model as one that'sbuilt around controlled chaoss and without controlled chaots,
you get pretty you get pretty restrictivelearning environments where a lot of students
are kind of left behind and affecttheir needs are met. So you got
(18:25):
to be excited for controlled chasts ifyou're going to do our model, otherwise
stay away from it. That's agood point. Yeah, if you're someone
who needs it to be completely silentwhile you talk, this isn't the model
for you. It sounds like likeoh, absolutely and absolutely so, then
let's I just one again objection orone reason why some teachers I could see
(18:48):
being skeptical again is the classroom managementportion of it in terms of students staying
focus, Like if you have astudent who just comes in, they're like,
I'm not going to do any worktoday, or they don't really care
where they are on the pace.Does that has that been much of an
issue when teachers are starting out,or does the model just somehow fix that?
(19:11):
Nothing fixes that? You know.What we often say is whenever someone
poses that question to me, Ioften pose a question in return, which
is what is that student doing ina traditional environment? And usually the answer
is nothing different. But you're operatingin an environment that's generally built out of
(19:32):
compliance, and they might be compliant, but compliant isn't engaged. So I
think one of the things that ourmodel does is it really shines a spotlight
on students that are compliant in traditionalenvironments but actually disengaged, because being compliant
doesn't get you anywhere in a modernclassroom. You have to get your guided
notes out, you have to watchyour instructional video, you have to complete
(19:55):
your matchy checks. So I thinkthe reality is is you will suddenly see
the degree with which certain students areactually waiting for learning to just kind of
hit them in the face. Andif it doesn't just hit them in the
face, then they're just kind ofnot going to learn the content. And
at that stage, the only solutionis to build strong relationships with those students
(20:15):
and figure out when motivated right,you have no other pathway out right,
And I think our model gives youthe time to do that, Whereas in
a traditional setting you're just kind ofgoing to let them slide by being compliant
and move on from one less tothe next, one unit to the next,
one school year to the next,not necessarily performing well, maybe just
kind of passing, and that's notreally doing much for the students in the
(20:38):
long run. In fact, it'sprobably just widening some of those learning gaps
I could see, especially with myI teach song grade. Of my incoming
song graders, they need so muchhand holding, and so I have a
feeling it's going to take a lotof training in the beginning for them to
be self reliant because a lot oftimes I've even told them, if you're
(21:02):
absent, go to Google classroom andyou can see what we did for the
day, and they still email me, I'm going to be gone today.
What are we doing today? Sohow do you train these students to actually
believe in themselves enough to be selfguided? Super super tight structures. Modern
classrooms usually have some of the mostintense structures and systems in place, so
(21:26):
you know, if you're going togive students great or freedom over their time,
you need to build some really highquality systems such that they know how
to use that time effectively. Ourteachers have the most organized learning management systems.
They have the most organized kind oflesson been setups in their classrooms.
They have some of the most clearroutines because ultimately students are going to be
(21:47):
in the driver's sali learning experience,so if you don't have those in place,
they will feed off that kind ofchaotic energy and they won't actually use
their time effectively. The other thingis, I think it's almost more important
than the content is to actually ensurethat the students are building those twenty first
century skills as well. So that'swhy you got a self paced in short
chunks. You got to do frequentcheck ins, you got to engage in
(22:08):
a series of reflections with students thatthey're able to say, here's why I
use my time and effectively goss unit. This is why I only mastered three
out of six skills. This iswhat I'm going to do differently. So
it requires patients, it requires reallyhigh quality structures, and I think over
time those gains will happen. Butone thing I tell folks all the time
is some of the best, ifnot the best, at scale modern classrooms
(22:30):
are elementary classrooms. And I thinkit's a big myth that sort of young
the students aren't developmentally ready to bein control of the learning environment. And
we heard that early on in modernclassrooms. Oh, this has got to
be just a secondary model. Andit's actually the opposite that usually the older
the student, the more they're usedto these highly rigid learning environments and the
(22:53):
more of a change in style itis. You walk into a second grade
classroom that's doing a modern claps rimand you'll be shocked. I mean,
these students are like a little cityand they're driving their own learning and they
know it to do next. Andthat's because elementary teachers are some of the
most effective at building systems and structures. But also those students haven't had the
(23:14):
kind of self direction kind of weanedout of right. It's like, over
time we turned war into robots andless into self directed leartners, which for
folks feels like the opposite pattern youwould expect that. It's the reality.
That's actually a big complaint about publicschools in general, that they are being
run like factories anyway, both studentsand parents, you know, they complain
(23:40):
that their needs aren't being met orschool is boring, and it sounds like
this. It's it's a huge likemental shift, for sure, but this
could be what cures education, especiallysince there's so many teachers not wanting to
go into education anymore and so manyteachers quitting. That's right, that's right.
It's a core way that we thinkabout how you change some of the
(24:06):
patterns of education that we're design outof convenience and not what's best for students.
And I think we know that thatI've been working and I think frankly,
the big technology push is also provingit right. Students are starting to
realize, like, why do Ihave to sit here and wait for you
to tell me this when I canjust open up a computer and find the
information, most specially with AI too. We gotta be ready for that.
(24:27):
So one thing I was thinking,because you had to mention that you use
paper, and I met a schoolthat's completely one to one, what would
you say is the minimum technology setup for this to run smoothly? I
mean, there's folks who do itin a really low tech environment, but
generally speaking, I'd say a twoto one. And it doesn't mean that
(24:48):
the kids need to take the deviceshome with them, but generally speaking,
you probably want a device for everytwo students. I mean, students are
not spending that much time on computerscreens. I think a pretty small amount
of time frequently on computer science unlessthe activity is you know, on the
computer, because the instructional videos shouldbe nine minutes or under, ideally six,
(25:11):
so you know, your These instructionalvideos are very bite size, so
two to one usually gets gets youwhat you need. Um, you know,
one to one's ideal, But isn'tis that what everyone has access to?
Okay, that's good to do,because I yeah, with the video
component, I mean, we canassume that we can flip the classroom completely
and have students watch the videos athome. But I'm not a believer in
(25:34):
giving homework anyway, So I thinkthat it's kind of a waste of time
to an energy to get upset whenstudents don't do homework because I can't control
what happens the minute that they walkout of my door. So I just
wanted to see how other teachers aredoing this if they don't have a device
for every student. Yeah, Imean, the expectation is not that assumes
(25:56):
to this work at oh and infact, it's usually a pretty clear expectation
that the only time you have homeworkis when you're not on pace. So
it creates this nice structor where it'sif you're not using your time, it's
actually the a if stuffs you do, but if you're using your time effectively,
you don't. Yeah. Now Iwanted to let the audience know that
you guys have a Facebook group.Then I've been in very very helpful Facebook
(26:21):
group. Everyone is sharing resources.You had mentioned the structures, and there
people are sharing screenshots of how theirGoogle classroom is set up, or they're
pacing guys, or they're tracking youknow, checkers. It's amazing how collaborative
your community is. I mean,they're cool. Also, oh go ahead.
(26:42):
I mean, we describe ourselves asa movement, so I always say,
like, the best people to talkto our teachers. So that Facebook
groups one of my favorite things thatwe have. We never intended it to
be some big thing. We justcreate a group and suddenly thousands of teachers
are in there. So I agree, it's like the coolest part about our
work is that little Facebook which isnot. Yeah, as soon as I
joined, I was just bombarded withall of these posts of people just sharing,
(27:04):
I mean just sharing everything, askingquestions, no judgment. And then
also I've been through the course andthe course itself. Considering that you're offering
a free course, it's very thorough. I like the fact that you're modeling
how the lessons are supposed to bein terms of length and the resources that
(27:25):
accompany it. How did this coursecome about? How came you're offering it
for free when you could easily becharging for this. Well, I mean
we're a nonprofit, so I meanto start. You know, the organization
was always built as a nonprofit,and it was built through the lens of
we will never hide content from educators, part of the ethos of our organization.
(27:51):
Like, it's hard enough to bea teacher. It's the hardest thing
I've ever done. I've been leadingthe Modern Classrooms project for over five years
now, the organization's grown, They'vetrained thousands of teacher. There's nothing it
was harder than trying to figure outhow to meet thirty highly diverse students with
very very different needs in a sixteenminute class period one hundred eighty days the
year. So I don't think weneed to be holding very valuable resources back
(28:14):
from educators. They should have everythingthat could possibly need, so, you
know, the things we charge forthe Modern Classrooms or when we actually have
to use human time, which,by the way, that the people who
do to training our teachers themselves,they're usually teach our mentors. So the
course was just an idea that myco owner and I had and we realized
people wanted this, we thought,well, why don't we just create a
place where any educator can learn themodel and a self based format start building
(28:38):
it out. So it's where Isend everybody to go first. We do
have a much more structured mentorship programthat has a cost associated with it,
and that's kind of how we partnerschools and districts. But that free course
has ever. There is not asales everyone. There's not a hidden template
or resource of the modern class fromthe project where if you pays five blocks,
(29:00):
suddenly at old Pier doesn't exist.Everything's in that free course. Well,
especially when you pair that free coursewith the free Facebook group, kind
of got it all in there becauseyou also do have some built in guidance
in there from everyone helping each otherout totally. There's a lot of really
cool staff you can learn from thefree course and from the people in the
(29:21):
community. And what I mean ona personal note, this is something that
I've been wanting to do. Thismodel is something that I've been wanting to
do for over a decade, butI couldn't wrap my brain around it.
And I love that your organization hassystemized it. It answers you know,
the ethos of it and wrapping yourbrain around how it actually works in the
classroom implementation strategies. You know,some of the objections that people might have.
(29:48):
It addresses those as well, andit also models it, which I
think is great because I love themodule on how to actually just create the
videos and how easy it is tojust pop in there make a video and
it doesn't have to be polish.You know, there's some teachers who are
afraid that, you know, studentsare going to make fun of me if
I make a video, And inmy mind, I'm like, they're not
making fun of you anywhere than theywould in class because that's just how kids
(30:11):
work. So does it really matter. No, they're not going to necessarily
screenshot your phineas and posted on TikTok. They don't got time for that.
So I really appreciate what you guysare doing, and I'm hoping that more
teachers will start to embrace this ideaof not having to control everything in a
classroom. I totally agree. Andthe one thing I remind everyone is the
(30:34):
model is designed to be customizable,so make it your own, like you
don't need to go in teachers arerule followers, it's so fascinating. It's
so fascinating. So I always tellthe story of when before we had the
free course, we were a littlefellowship in DC and we trained our first
aid educators and right when the schoolyear started, I got calls from them
saying, am I allowed to talkat the front of the room? Like?
(30:56):
Am I allowed to do this?And I remember thinking like if I
said no, would you listen?Right? Like? So, um,
what I'd tell every educator out thereis like there's some gold in that course,
but you don't have to use everysingle component of it. You don't
have to use every template, andyou can certainly make it your own.
And that's what we want, Like, we believe educators are the most important
(31:18):
people to invest in in K twelveeducation if we want to see long term
change, and this is just anavidant to do that. Well, thank
you so much for taking the timeto share this to educators, especially future
and new educators. Where can theyfind you if they want more information?
Want to stock to online? Yeah, I mean I have like a LinkedIn
and a Twitter account, but Ithink what's more important is the organization.
(31:41):
So all of our social media accountson modern classrooms are Modern class rojpr o
J. But you go to ourwebsite Modern Classrooms dot org, just make
sure you put a NASS on it. Modern Classrooms. That's our website,
and the free course is learned ModernClassrooms dot Org and in those are the
best places to go. I mean, I think we have enough of the
digital footprint now that if you justkind of search us, you'll be able
(32:05):
to see all those things. Butthose are the two best spots to go
to really dig in and learn ourwork, okay, And I'll be sure
to post the links so you guyscan find those easily. So what do
you think? Are you guys?In? Are you going to try this
out with me? Let me know. You can send me an email at
Kim at Teachers need Teachers dot comand let me know if you have any
reservations and things that you're wondering aboutin terms of implementation. Thanks for hanging
(32:27):
out with me to day, youguys, and I will see you next time.
Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want
to just survive their first few yearsbut actually thrive. I've been teaching for
twenty two years, and I'm prettymuch set in the way that I teach
and do things in the way thatI run my classroom. But at the
same time, I've always wondered inthe back of my head, how could
I be a better teacher? Imean, I have a solid grasp of
(00:21):
classroom management and standards and what Ineed to teach the kids and even how
I want to teach them. Butat the same time, I know that
not everyone is having their needs met. I know that there are students that
are woefully behind and just don't reallywant to speak up about it and may
never catch up because I don't havetime. I also know that there are
students that are really ahead and arebored, and just because they like me,
(00:43):
they don't get themselves to the trouble. But I know that they really
need to be challenged. So whatam I supposed to do? In this
episode, which is part two ofa two part series about the Modern Classrooms
Project, the co founder of theModern Classrooms Project Kareem Farah and I are
discussing how to implement the model thathas really revolutionized teaching. Tens of thousands
(01:03):
of teachers are implementing this model andhave not only seen great gains in their
students, but they're actually catching upstudents who fell behind during the pandemic.
So if that's you and you reallywant to start being frustrated with teaching,
be sure to stick around, especiallyto the end where I talk about how
you can start doing this in yourclassroom right away. So if you miss
the first episode of this two partseries, be sure to go back to
(01:26):
that because Kareem and I discuss notonly what the Modern Classrooms project is,
but also how it works and howyou can start wrapping your brain around implementation.
In this particular interview, we're goingto be talking more about what it
looks like with assessment and what itlooks like in your classroom. So here
we go. So I wanted toswitch care real quick to implementation. So
(01:48):
hopefully we've convinced people that you know, this is something that will really have
an impact. It has had animpact because you have tens of thousands of
educators using this model. I willhave to say that it does look like
a lot of work. Like initially, I have always wanted to try this,
and it just seems like every dayI'm bouncing around the classroom as opposed
(02:14):
to I just have to deliver alesson and let kids work. I mean,
I'm not gonna lie. After twentytwo years of teaching, that's how
I keep myself from getting exhausted.But now it sounds like I'm having to
keep tabs on all thirty six ofmy students per period and it feels like
a lot of work. What doyou have to say to those of us
that are a little bit hesitant becauseof it? So, I mean,
(02:36):
the workload is on the prep,it's not on the actual classroom experience.
I mean, without a doubt,the educators who have done our model say
that they find the classroom experience substantiallyless stressful. In fact, eighty six
percent of educators who do our modelfind the job more sustainable. Ninety five
percent say they feel more optimistic aboutthe future of teaching. So I think
(03:00):
what you find is, once youactually get it off the ground and running
and can execute it, you willfind the job to be one that is
filled with more joy and one thatfeels like you can do it for a
longer period of time. There isa workload component on the front den that
is real, like you are changingthe way that you deliver instruction, which
(03:22):
means you need to change the waythat you created your resources. And in
that piece, you just have tobe disciplined around wanting to do that and
planning ahead of time. So mosteducators will plan a unit in advance.
They will invest a fair amount oftime in the summer to really think through
how they want to design their modernclassroom. But the beautiful thing with that
is once you plan it for yourcourse, it's planned. Like I have
(03:45):
to joke, I found it anonprofit in the third year of implementation because
all my courses were planned. SoI would come in every day, my
classroom would kind of run itself andI'd be the facilitator. I'd be grading
in the class period because I'd bedelivering live feedback. I had very little
planning to do it that All myvideos have been created and been used multiple
years. I made tweaks year overyear to make it right. So there's
(04:09):
also like this really cool feeling forthe first time when you design a modern
classroom, like the time that you'reputting into planning is not just necessary,
but it's actually paying back long termin the amount you work and kind of
what the classroom experience feels like.I think it was really frustrating for me
when I taught traditionally. I feltlike every minute I was adding to my
planning wasn't translating to any real gainsin the classroom. It was like I
(04:31):
was hitting a wall in that wallwasn't It wasn't. My ceiling on meeting
students needs wasn't in particularly high right. It was like a huge percentage of
students feel like they're not being ableto have their needs men, I have
no plan to address that. That'strue. If I have one or two
students that are far behind, Ihad to ask myself, what am I
going to squeeze in? Am Igoing to take up my lunch for them
(04:55):
to come in or after school?Do I just say oh well and move
on and hope they pick it upalong the way. So I could see
how, definitely how this would helpcatch them up. But the one thing
that also like it's not so mucha red flag, but I was concerned
about, is it feels like there'sa lot of assessing. So I mean,
maybe this is just me still tryingto grapple with this because it feels
(05:18):
like I have to do with thesechecks. Or do I just do a
check when they turn in the masterycheck and then have them go back and
redo it. Is it constant studentrevision? Or can I how do I
catch them before they even get tothat part? Because I'm a big believer
in not grading everything and really minimizingthe number of things that students submit,
(05:40):
because I think grading really sucks upa lot of our time. So you
all, I mean, first ofall, teachers do this in a million
different ways. So one of thekind of beautiful ways modern class from this
project views change in glassroom instruction isthat ultimately the educator decides how to do
the model, and the way isto do it correctly. There are some
educators who only grade mastery checks.There were some educators who grade every single
(06:02):
thing that a student turns, andthat is totally up to the educator.
What I would say is I coulduse by example, students had assignments they
were completing in activities, and thenthey had mastery checks that they completed,
and then there were summative assessments,and the summitive assessments are graded like all
smitive assessments are graded. You know, they're a bunch of skills in one
you grade them, and you don'tgrade for mastery there, you mean you
greade for mapstery. But a studentcan actually get a seventy percent on that.
(06:26):
Whenever I had assignments, I spotchecked assignments and I spot checked assignments,
and I used kind of the highleverage spots on the assignments where I
knew skills were being kind of tested, not like an assessment way, but
like a student was applying a newcomponent of the lesson. There. Let
me spot check this to see ifI'm seeing any glaring years. And that
was very quick, like I couldlook at that and within minute understand whether
(06:49):
a student was on the right trackor not on the right track. The
things that I graded closely were masterychecks. But one of the things that
teachers learned both in our mentorship programand the free course is mastery check must
be designed to be very easy tograde, and you must be able to
deliver multiple forms. But that isyour tool to understand whether the student has
actually understood the skill. So whena mass tree check comes in, they're
(07:11):
usually half sheets of paper one totwo questions. Don't worry about assessing every
single component of a lesson. Focuson those high leverage components the lesson and
those ones you should grade. Butyou're grading in class. You're literally doing
ninety percent of that grading live whenit comes in, and then you're deciding
whether that student has mastered the skillor you're going to pull them down.
So you're probably doing a little moregrading than you would in a traditional setting,
(07:33):
but you're spending a fairly large chunkof time doing that during the class
period. It's driving a lot ofthe discussions. Yeah okay, yeah,
so a lot of like over theshoulder, I can see what you're doing
right now grading, which I alsolike because again that's not something that I
have to create later on. I'mgrading in real time. So for you,
(07:56):
what did the students ever, like, physically or electronically submit? I
had two? I mean mine wasvery paper based. Sorry to the cling
like, well did they give youlike that? You actually collected? Yeah,
so you add two components of everylesson. Generally speaking, you had
your assignment. In some cases thatwas an activity they did on a piece
(08:16):
of paper. In some cases therewas a word sheet, in some cases
there was something they had to writeup. In some cases it was a
Google sheet where they'd grasp some dataand that would be the assignment component that
they would submit to me. Andif it was physical that i'd have been
there was blue colored. I believethat was from my assignments. And as
soon as you submit an assignment,UN grabbed your mastery check, which was
a half sheet of paper which wasyour actual end of lesson assessment, and
(08:39):
you would take that in a specialpart of the room. That special part
of the room was for match treechecks where you had to stay silent,
you had to do it independently,and they would turn that in. So
I would spot check the assignments andthen I would grade the mastery checks closely,
and in some cases I didn't eventouch the assignment. So if the
student was consistently getting the assignments correctlyand then able to tackle the mastery check,
(09:01):
but I would focus on the masterycheck, and if they didn't get
the mastery check right, then I'dpull their assignment out and I'd say,
let's see what you did here onthe assignment. Were you cruising on the
assignment or not? And if youwere in, let's try to figure out
where this misconception is and let's havea discussion, and then when you're ready,
you're going to go ahead and executethe actual mastery check again with different
sets of questions. So that's whatthey were turning in and generally speaking,
(09:22):
like, you know, if youhad a thirty student class period, let's
say on average, every kid turnedin at least one assignment. If thirty
assignments came in that day and anothereighteen mastery checks, I generally would get
through eighty percent of that grading inclass. Okay, that works. Yeah,
I like that because I couldn't wrapmy brain around around the assessment part,
(09:46):
because that's how you give the feedback. You know, we know that
timely feedback is really important, butit also sounds like if I'm doing over
the shoulder grading, if I'm gradingin real time, then I can give
that immediate feedback instead of typing itup and the student doesn't even look at
it. That's the most frustrating partis to spend the time and effort to
show them what they can improve,but then they would rather just move on
(10:07):
and take the sea or something likethat. I mean, the students in
a modern classroom demand feedback within twentyfour hours because they're used to get kind
that way, right. So likewhen a student is going to turn in
their assignment and mastery check, they'reexpecting to get feedback on that same day,
And if they don't get it sameday, they know they're going to
get in the beginning of the nextclass period. So there's this real kind
(10:28):
of pressure you put on yourselves.But expectations students have that they're going to
hear about their progress and performance almostimmediately after they submit something, or within
the next day that you return.And what if they don't hit mastery,
even though they've tried several times.At what point do they just get to
move on and say this is thebest that I can do? You know,
(10:52):
I don't actually think that that's reallyever a scenario that exists. I
mean, I think generally speaking,in modern classrooms, we're all very cognizant
the fact that you can demonstrate masterin a variety of ways. A student
might have a particular learning disability,or maybe they need to deliver their understanding
in an auditory fashion, right ormaybe they need to be having a conversation,
right, So there's a variety oftechniques you can use to assess for
(11:13):
mastery outside of one dimension. ButI think it's part of our ethos to
say that, you know, ifyou're in a math class or in English
class, like you need to masterhow to write a thesis statement, you
need to matchter how to add fractionsbefore you go divide fractions. And I
think in our in our environment,we're pretty committed to that idea. And
(11:35):
I think that means that students willget frustrated sometimes, which we kind of
love. I mean, I lovewhen students would say, just give me
the four out of ten, andI'd be like, I don't. I
don't speak that language in this classroom. I don't know what a four out
of ten is. What I knowis that you haven't understood how to add
fractions, and you're going to keepworking on that until you do, So,
you know, I don't think wereally ever think that a student is
not going to be able to matchthe scale. I think the reality is
(11:58):
time can run out on the burstof seas, meaning if you have to
master five skills in a week,you can run out of time. Then
if you do run out of time, then you may need to spend time
outside of the class period addressing it. I will say we do have a
must should do, aspire to doframework, which means we do isolate within
each burst of self pasting what skillsare mustus non negotiables, should dous,
(12:22):
which we'd like every student of master, and aspired to do, which be
extensions. So certainly students will notmaster should do as an aspire to do.
But I think it's those mustadudes thatwe do truly see as non negotiable.
And I also think that again goesback to your kind of data point
where if you have a student whoreally can't master the must do skills,
there's a broader conversation that needs tobe added with more supports at the school
(12:45):
to ask, hey, like,how come this? How come the students
really struggling with the most fundamental conceptsin my classroom? And how can we
create more supports to get them there? Right? Because I think about students
who are like reading below grade leveland so have a difficult time even just
accessing the text, and you know, I'll give them scaffolds for that,
(13:05):
But then if on that text,they still, like you said, can't
write a thesis statement or somewhearing well. Now for them to practice again,
they have during another text, whichI could see as being frustrating for them.
So I guess I would have tothink of ways for them to practice
without overloading them, you know,the mental load of all of that practice.
(13:28):
But I just know that they're justsometimes some students who after they're just
so used to giving up on themselves. So maybe this is like the way
to teach them to persevere and havesome grit, when other teachers would have
just said, okay, let's justmove on because we have to get through
the next lesson well. And that'swhy it's super important to engage in lesson
classifications because if you're going to havea student who struggles and doesn't have the
(13:52):
prerequisite skills, spend three class periodson a scale that one student is working
through in forty minutes, something hasto get right. You can't then expect
that a student to work three xthe amount of time on every skill.
And that's why important it's important tosay, if I have ten skills,
only five of these are mustus.And then when that student does master the
mustus skill you recognize and sure youmaster the muscles skill, You're not gonna
(14:13):
have to worry about the should newsand aspired news. I really want you
to focus on these five months doskills so student that they're getting something in
return, right, because otherwise,I mean in this I've had funny arguments
with Admin about this at times,because it's like, look, if you're
gonna if you're gonna have a groupof students who are ranging between a fifth
grade English level or reading level anda tenth grade reading level, to suggest
(14:35):
that they're all going to learn theexact same amount of skills at the exact
same pace in one hundred eighty onedays is just like living in lah lah
Land. That makes absolutely no sense, right, So we as to being
able to differentiate. Understand that somestudents by master one hundred skills in a
year, where another group of studentsmaster seventy five, and that's okay,
Let's not reduce the rigor of theseventy five. Let's just hold them to
(14:58):
the expectation of match and let's justreduce the amount of skills to master.
Okay, Now that works, Andthen I you know something that also that
I love to do in my classroomis have students work collaboratively. I would
say the majority of the time spentin my class is collaborative, but it's
all of the students working on thesame thing. And so how with your
(15:20):
model, how does collaboration work wheneveryone is self paced? So keep in
mind we're talking about self pacing atfive lessons at once, right, So
students are in the same group oflessons, and they're generally not particularly far
apart, right, because they're allin the same week or two weeks worth
of content. The second thing iswe structure collaboration in two ways. We
(15:43):
have what we call organic collaboration,and then we have what we call plant
collaboration. Organic collaboration is the ideathat I'm working in a self based learning
environment, and there are systems andstructures in place such that I work with
my peers to tackle these activities naturally. I often describe it as how you
would learn in college. Frequently,I'd bet a lot of learning in college
(16:04):
collaboratively. But it's not because myprofessor said, you know, go after
class and like meet at the cafeteriaand hang out with your friends. We
chose to do that because it helpedus in our mission to learn the content.
Planned collaboration is actually when we saywe're doing this activity on Tuesday,
everybody's doing it together, and it'sgoing to be a collaboration day or activity.
(16:29):
Those can beat PIDAA seminars, thosecan be labs, those can be
opening discussions. That's planned experiences thatare fundamentally designed that way. And then
there's a little there's there's examples whereyou can do a little bit of both,
meaning like the self pacing learning exerciseis designed to be done in pairs.
Go find someone who's on the sameliston as you are, and go
tackle this together. So there's kindof those two big buckets, and then
(16:52):
there's some overlap and you can getpretty creative with Okay, So I guess
then, rather than students being assignedto a seat permanently, it sounds more
like it's it's more of a flexiblestructure. Because you're going to be working
over here with someone else, you'realways going to be in this seat.
Yeah, I don't. There's rarelyassigned seats in modern classrooms. So frequently
(17:15):
you'll walk into a modern classroom andthey'll be group banks, they'll be you
know, everyone I lesson four isgoing to be at this table, everyone
I lesson five is from me atthis table, or they'll be heterogeneous group
bank. So there's but the classroomsactually quite um. The physical environment requires
a lot of movement because you're goingto go to certain places for master checks,
You're gonna go to certain places towatch instructional videos. So it's intentionally
(17:37):
designed to be a little bit likea little city that students are navigating,
as opposed to one where everyone's inthe same spot as they always are.
I could see some teachers bristling atthat because it sounds a little bit like
structured chaos when they're used to,you know, especially if you are used
as kids sitting in rows and um, you know, this is where you
sit and it's always going to belike like. So I could see that
(18:03):
it could be frustrating for them.I could see it as a hard transition.
Is it supposed to be an easytransition, but it's supposed to be
one that's good for them and theirstudents, So totally. I mean,
we describe our model as one that'sbuilt around controlled chaoss and without controlled chaots,
you get pretty you get pretty restrictivelearning environments where a lot of students
are kind of left behind and affecttheir needs are met. So you got
(18:25):
to be excited for controlled chasts ifyou're going to do our model, otherwise
stay away from it. That's agood point. Yeah, if you're someone
who needs it to be completely silentwhile you talk, this isn't the model
for you. It sounds like likeoh, absolutely and absolutely so, then
let's I just one again objection orone reason why some teachers I could see
(18:48):
being skeptical again is the classroom managementportion of it in terms of students staying
focus, Like if you have astudent who just comes in, they're like,
I'm not going to do any worktoday, or they don't really care
where they are on the pace.Does that has that been much of an
issue when teachers are starting out,or does the model just somehow fix that?
(19:11):
Nothing fixes that? You know.What we often say is whenever someone
poses that question to me, Ioften pose a question in return, which
is what is that student doing ina traditional environment? And usually the answer
is nothing different. But you're operatingin an environment that's generally built out of
(19:32):
compliance, and they might be compliant, but compliant isn't engaged. So I
think one of the things that ourmodel does is it really shines a spotlight
on students that are compliant in traditionalenvironments but actually disengaged, because being compliant
doesn't get you anywhere in a modernclassroom. You have to get your guided
notes out, you have to watchyour instructional video, you have to complete
(19:55):
your matchy checks. So I thinkthe reality is is you will suddenly see
the degree with which certain students areactually waiting for learning to just kind of
hit them in the face. Andif it doesn't just hit them in the
face, then they're just kind ofnot going to learn the content. And
at that stage, the only solutionis to build strong relationships with those students
(20:15):
and figure out when motivated right,you have no other pathway out right,
And I think our model gives youthe time to do that, Whereas in
a traditional setting you're just kind ofgoing to let them slide by being compliant
and move on from one less tothe next, one unit to the next,
one school year to the next,not necessarily performing well, maybe just
kind of passing, and that's notreally doing much for the students in the
(20:38):
long run. In fact, it'sprobably just widening some of those learning gaps
I could see, especially with myI teach song grade. Of my incoming
song graders, they need so muchhand holding, and so I have a
feeling it's going to take a lotof training in the beginning for them to
be self reliant because a lot oftimes I've even told them, if you're
(21:02):
absent, go to Google classroom andyou can see what we did for the
day, and they still email me, I'm going to be gone today.
What are we doing today? Sohow do you train these students to actually
believe in themselves enough to be selfguided? Super super tight structures. Modern
classrooms usually have some of the mostintense structures and systems in place, so
(21:26):
you know, if you're going togive students great or freedom over their time,
you need to build some really highquality systems such that they know how
to use that time effectively. Ourteachers have the most organized learning management systems.
They have the most organized kind oflesson been setups in their classrooms.
They have some of the most clearroutines because ultimately students are going to be
(21:47):
in the driver's sali learning experience,so if you don't have those in place,
they will feed off that kind ofchaotic energy and they won't actually use
their time effectively. The other thingis, I think it's almost more important
than the content is to actually ensurethat the students are building those twenty first
century skills as well. So that'swhy you got a self paced in short
chunks. You got to do frequentcheck ins, you got to engage in
(22:08):
a series of reflections with students thatthey're able to say, here's why I
use my time and effectively goss unit. This is why I only mastered three
out of six skills. This iswhat I'm going to do differently. So
it requires patients, it requires reallyhigh quality structures, and I think over
time those gains will happen. Butone thing I tell folks all the time
is some of the best, ifnot the best, at scale modern classrooms
(22:30):
are elementary classrooms. And I thinkit's a big myth that sort of young
the students aren't developmentally ready to bein control of the learning environment. And
we heard that early on in modernclassrooms. Oh, this has got to
be just a secondary model. Andit's actually the opposite that usually the older
the student, the more they're usedto these highly rigid learning environments and the
(22:53):
more of a change in style itis. You walk into a second grade
classroom that's doing a modern claps rimand you'll be shocked. I mean,
these students are like a little cityand they're driving their own learning and they
know it to do next. Andthat's because elementary teachers are some of the
most effective at building systems and structures. But also those students haven't had the
(23:14):
kind of self direction kind of weanedout of right. It's like, over
time we turned war into robots andless into self directed leartners, which for
folks feels like the opposite pattern youwould expect that. It's the reality.
That's actually a big complaint about publicschools in general, that they are being
run like factories anyway, both studentsand parents, you know, they complain
(23:40):
that their needs aren't being met orschool is boring, and it sounds like
this. It's it's a huge likemental shift, for sure, but this
could be what cures education, especiallysince there's so many teachers not wanting to
go into education anymore and so manyteachers quitting. That's right, that's right.
It's a core way that we thinkabout how you change some of the
(24:06):
patterns of education that we're design outof convenience and not what's best for students.
And I think we know that thatI've been working and I think frankly,
the big technology push is also provingit right. Students are starting to
realize, like, why do Ihave to sit here and wait for you
to tell me this when I canjust open up a computer and find the
information, most specially with AI too. We gotta be ready for that.
(24:27):
So one thing I was thinking,because you had to mention that you use
paper, and I met a schoolthat's completely one to one, what would
you say is the minimum technology setup for this to run smoothly? I
mean, there's folks who do itin a really low tech environment, but
generally speaking, I'd say a twoto one. And it doesn't mean that
(24:48):
the kids need to take the deviceshome with them, but generally speaking,
you probably want a device for everytwo students. I mean, students are
not spending that much time on computerscreens. I think a pretty small amount
of time frequently on computer science unlessthe activity is you know, on the
computer, because the instructional videos shouldbe nine minutes or under, ideally six,
(25:11):
so you know, your These instructionalvideos are very bite size, so
two to one usually gets gets youwhat you need. Um, you know,
one to one's ideal, But isn'tis that what everyone has access to?
Okay, that's good to do,because I yeah, with the video
component, I mean, we canassume that we can flip the classroom completely
and have students watch the videos athome. But I'm not a believer in
(25:34):
giving homework anyway, So I thinkthat it's kind of a waste of time
to an energy to get upset whenstudents don't do homework because I can't control
what happens the minute that they walkout of my door. So I just
wanted to see how other teachers aredoing this if they don't have a device
for every student. Yeah, Imean, the expectation is not that assumes
(25:56):
to this work at oh and infact, it's usually a pretty clear expectation
that the only time you have homeworkis when you're not on pace. So
it creates this nice structor where it'sif you're not using your time, it's
actually the a if stuffs you do, but if you're using your time effectively,
you don't. Yeah. Now Iwanted to let the audience know that
you guys have a Facebook group.Then I've been in very very helpful Facebook
(26:21):
group. Everyone is sharing resources.You had mentioned the structures, and there
people are sharing screenshots of how theirGoogle classroom is set up, or they're
pacing guys, or they're tracking youknow, checkers. It's amazing how collaborative
your community is. I mean,they're cool. Also, oh go ahead.
(26:42):
I mean, we describe ourselves asa movement, so I always say,
like, the best people to talkto our teachers. So that Facebook
groups one of my favorite things thatwe have. We never intended it to
be some big thing. We justcreate a group and suddenly thousands of teachers
are in there. So I agree, it's like the coolest part about our
work is that little Facebook which isnot. Yeah, as soon as I
joined, I was just bombarded withall of these posts of people just sharing,
(27:04):
I mean just sharing everything, askingquestions, no judgment. And then
also I've been through the course andthe course itself. Considering that you're offering
a free course, it's very thorough. I like the fact that you're modeling
how the lessons are supposed to bein terms of length and the resources that
(27:25):
accompany it. How did this coursecome about? How came you're offering it
for free when you could easily becharging for this. Well, I mean
we're a nonprofit, so I meanto start. You know, the organization
was always built as a nonprofit,and it was built through the lens of
we will never hide content from educators, part of the ethos of our organization.
(27:51):
Like, it's hard enough to bea teacher. It's the hardest thing
I've ever done. I've been leadingthe Modern Classrooms project for over five years
now, the organization's grown, They'vetrained thousands of teacher. There's nothing it
was harder than trying to figure outhow to meet thirty highly diverse students with
very very different needs in a sixteenminute class period one hundred eighty days the
year. So I don't think weneed to be holding very valuable resources back
(28:14):
from educators. They should have everythingthat could possibly need, so, you
know, the things we charge forthe Modern Classrooms or when we actually have
to use human time, which,by the way, that the people who
do to training our teachers themselves,they're usually teach our mentors. So the
course was just an idea that myco owner and I had and we realized
people wanted this, we thought,well, why don't we just create a
place where any educator can learn themodel and a self based format start building
(28:38):
it out. So it's where Isend everybody to go first. We do
have a much more structured mentorship programthat has a cost associated with it,
and that's kind of how we partnerschools and districts. But that free course
has ever. There is not asales everyone. There's not a hidden template
or resource of the modern class fromthe project where if you pays five blocks,
(29:00):
suddenly at old Pier doesn't exist.Everything's in that free course. Well,
especially when you pair that free coursewith the free Facebook group, kind
of got it all in there becauseyou also do have some built in guidance
in there from everyone helping each otherout totally. There's a lot of really
cool staff you can learn from thefree course and from the people in the
(29:21):
community. And what I mean ona personal note, this is something that
I've been wanting to do. Thismodel is something that I've been wanting to
do for over a decade, butI couldn't wrap my brain around it.
And I love that your organization hassystemized it. It answers you know,
the ethos of it and wrapping yourbrain around how it actually works in the
classroom implementation strategies. You know,some of the objections that people might have.
(29:48):
It addresses those as well, andit also models it, which I
think is great because I love themodule on how to actually just create the
videos and how easy it is tojust pop in there make a video and
it doesn't have to be polish.You know, there's some teachers who are
afraid that, you know, studentsare going to make fun of me if
I make a video, And inmy mind, I'm like, they're not
making fun of you anywhere than theywould in class because that's just how kids
(30:11):
work. So does it really matter. No, they're not going to necessarily
screenshot your phineas and posted on TikTok. They don't got time for that.
So I really appreciate what you guysare doing, and I'm hoping that more
teachers will start to embrace this ideaof not having to control everything in a
classroom. I totally agree. Andthe one thing I remind everyone is the
(30:34):
model is designed to be customizable,so make it your own, like you
don't need to go in teachers arerule followers, it's so fascinating. It's
so fascinating. So I always tellthe story of when before we had the
free course, we were a littlefellowship in DC and we trained our first
aid educators and right when the schoolyear started, I got calls from them
saying, am I allowed to talkat the front of the room? Like?
(30:56):
Am I allowed to do this?And I remember thinking like if I
said no, would you listen?Right? Like? So, um,
what I'd tell every educator out thereis like there's some gold in that course,
but you don't have to use everysingle component of it. You don't
have to use every template, andyou can certainly make it your own.
And that's what we want, Like, we believe educators are the most important
(31:18):
people to invest in in K twelveeducation if we want to see long term
change, and this is just anavidant to do that. Well, thank
you so much for taking the timeto share this to educators, especially future
and new educators. Where can theyfind you if they want more information?
Want to stock to online? Yeah, I mean I have like a LinkedIn
and a Twitter account, but Ithink what's more important is the organization.
(31:41):
So all of our social media accountson modern classrooms are Modern class rojpr o
J. But you go to ourwebsite Modern Classrooms dot org, just make
sure you put a NASS on it. Modern Classrooms. That's our website,
and the free course is learned ModernClassrooms dot Org and in those are the
best places to go. I mean, I think we have enough of the
digital footprint now that if you justkind of search us, you'll be able
(32:05):
to see all those things. Butthose are the two best spots to go
to really dig in and learn ourwork, okay, And I'll be sure
to post the links so you guyscan find those easily. So what do
you think? Are you guys?In? Are you going to try this
out with me? Let me know. You can send me an email at
Kim at Teachers need Teachers dot comand let me know if you have any
reservations and things that you're wondering aboutin terms of implementation. Thanks for hanging
(32:27):
out with me to day, youguys, and I will see you next time.
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