March 9, 2025 • 47 mins
Singer/Songwriter/Musician A.J. Croce joins me again on the podcast
This time, we talk about his new album, “Heart of the Eternal,”touring with this project, his band includingDavid Barard (Dr. John), Gary Mallaber (Van Morrison), James Pennebaker (Delbert McClinton) + more!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tftc-with-bob-nebel--4703586/support.
This time, we talk about his new album, “Heart of the Eternal,”touring with this project, his band includingDavid Barard (Dr. John), Gary Mallaber (Van Morrison), James Pennebaker (Delbert McClinton) + more!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tftc-with-bob-nebel--4703586/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Hello, and welcome to my little corner of the world.
Thank you for joining me. This is a very special
day for me. I just had a birthday, so lots
of fun there. I don't know, I just you know,
it's another trip around the sun, that's all it is. Well,
thank you so much for joining me today. Again I
have on the program AJ Crouchy. This is one of
my favorite interviewees that I have had on this podcast
(00:22):
for many years now and written about Aja, did print
articles about Aja. I did a video feature about Aja.
You can go to my LinkedIn page and see the
feature I did back in twenty seventeen. It is just
so fun speaking with Aj. We have a really great conversation.
We talk about his new album, which is just out
(00:46):
get it wherever you get your music.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
There's a whole bunch of different genres on this album
that he hasn't really done before.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So I hope you enjoy this. You and Sonny or Orlando.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I am I just pulled into uh just pulled in,
got off the bus and here I am at backstage.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thanks so much. When a sound check, I don't want
to keep you too long.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here, Oh no, no, I'm good. Yeah, how's life great.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It's a little chilly here in the atl.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, I bet, yeah, I know. Nashville's frigid right now.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So yeah, you get even more in the winter time,
which is like, we're not used to this.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It's like, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, home of rock and roll,
in all of that, and oh my gosh, you know,
but it's been thirty six years.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Of course. Yeah, no, I mean, and it's easy to forget,
and it's easy to want to forget winters. Oh, it's
scoveling snow and salting it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh my god, I have a bad back. To prove it.
I started shoveling snow when I was in second grade.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And oh yeah, that the price you weren't younger.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
We'll put us to work back then.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yah.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Anyway, so this is a whirlwind tour that you're doing.
You're in the South, which is smart as we're talking
about weather. Yeah, so very very good strategy going through
Florida first, and as we get into springtime you start
moving up north.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, how is life on the road? You're still doing it?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
After I am, I am, it's it's it's been good
you know, three years of the Croachy Place Croachy Tour.
It just kept on going and it was so much fun.
And and you know, during during the little time that
we had off the road, I was writing and compiling things,
(02:46):
putting things together ideas for a record. And last last year,
around this time, we recorded, uh, started recording, and and
it was like, uh, it was really a fun, fun project. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
What made it difference this time? This is now ten
albums in now eleven eleven Oh my gosh, I know
eleven tracks as well as that was.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That yeah, yeah, okay, not not an accident.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Just yeah, happenstance, as it always.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Says, Yeah, yeah it was. I don't know. You asked
what made it special? Uh, there were a lot of things.
I think there was a camaraderie with the with the band.
You know, I'm touring with such legendary players, you know
these guys, uh, and uh, they've you know, they've been
on so many great records, and so I get to
(03:39):
really bring the album to the stage. So knowing that beforehand,
knowing that in the process of making this record that
I was going to be traveling with the same band
and all the same singers, I I really I knew.
I went in with a certain confidence, there was a
(04:00):
certain camaraderie at that point. We were just you know,
we played every one of these songs live at one
time or another during the tour. To see how audience
has reacted is just see how it felt. Don't always
get to do that. There were there were just a
lot of factors that made it fun, relaxing and and inspired,
(04:25):
you know. At the same time, I think everyone had
a lot of trust in one another. I came in
with really pretty clear arrangements, and then working with Shooter
was was really fun. We just get along so well.
He's a wonderful friend and and I just I love
his approach.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Shooter Jennings.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That name comes up work with Brandy Carlisle as I
have been saying, Yeah, well, I mean, a total veteran,
So it must have been great. It's great to have
a producer who makes you feel comfortable as you're putting
a project together, working in the studio. It's it must
really be a really good feeling when somebody like that
who's a veteran can help you out, you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Know, And and and it's funny you say that, because it's
funny you say that because you know, he's the youngest
producer I've ever had, and and of all I've you know,
worked with all of these guys who were you know,
my parents' generation for most of my career, you know,
John Simon and Keltner on my second one, Jim Gaines
(05:30):
and Alan Tucson and all of the Cowboy Jack Clement
and Mitchell Froome and on and on and on, all
of these legendary producers who had really had their own style,
their own way of doing things. And I think that
with with this project, I really wanted to put myself
(05:51):
in a situation where I was a little I was
taking a little bit of a risk, I was outside
of my element. I wanted to see what he would
bring to the party. And and so that was it. It was,
it was. I think all of those factors played into
(06:12):
it being unique in its way.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, it's not just one thematic element. Through this new recording.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You've got psychedelia, You've got Philly's soul, which is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So a part of you.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And I love this single where You've got just like
this real Spanish feel to it, and.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh what a wonderful video that goes with it too.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah, you know, it's it's diverse.
I think that where in the past I was so
concerned about the diversity of genre and era and style,
felt like it was something that I should worry about.
(06:57):
I began to realize that it's what my audiences love
about what I do. What may have been a challenge
earlier in my career ended up being an asset, you know,
and it was something that you know, I've really embraced
and finding a way to communicate all of these different
(07:23):
ideas in different styles of things on different instruments and
still managed to hold it together and make a really
interesting album out of it. You know. It was maybe
the first time I really came at it with that perspective.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, heart of the eternal. Where's the origin for that
album title?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Music? Music is the heart of the eternal? You know.
It is that thing that is profound and huge and universal.
I think that we all have, uh, we all have
that piece that we feel in our own creative life,
(08:09):
regardless of what you do for a living, that is
this piece that is universal and beautiful and timeless, and
and I think that was really where it came from.
You know, that's where a lot of the titles, uh
from my for my albums have come from were if
(08:31):
it wasn't self titled, it was it was where I
was thinking of the music coming from. You know, how
where was I in my in my career? How did
how did it reflect on the on what I was doing?
And I think that this album has that kind of
(08:51):
has that kind of universality that just really kind of
gave me a confidence to to do what I did.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, and in the tour, you were touring at the
same time, so you were going back and forth. How
did that schedule work out for you and you're on
tour and were you always heading back to where you
recorded it or did you do files and send them in.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And have those live? You know, I'm kind of old
fashioned in that way, and I've not had a really
big budget and god since I started really so time
is of the essence. I came in with arrangements. I
knew how how I wanted what I wanted on the songs.
I'm always open to happy accidents. That is the magic
(09:40):
of recording. It's the magic of working with great musicians
that you trust. It's the magic of working with great
producers and engineers who you trust, and you can work
outside of your comfort zone sometime and know you're safe.
And I think the fundamentals of what I do have
been really consistent. Like a painter, UH will use Jesso
(10:03):
or you know, or prim er you know to UH
as a bass code. Now, that bass code plays a
lot of plays a big role in the depth of
the of of a painting, and or of of a wall,
or of in my case, of of an album and
the recording quality of it, because I love to record
(10:25):
to tape and because I love the compression that that offers.
It's it's almost unheard, but there's this compression sound that
you can hear from the tape front through a vimtage board,
through old microphones. You know, there was a reason they
didn't need to master old recordings. They were it was
(10:48):
all the all the compression that was needed up through
up through the early sixties was all in the gear
it was. It was, it had that innate compression. And
then after that things, you know, things changed in the
mid sixties, and I think I always love the way
(11:09):
that that compression sounds. It's almost like white noise. And
to me, it's like the bass code now now we've
got that bass code, let's what what are we gonna have?
You know that that's fine and good and that that
can be great, but we got to paint something great
to fill the space and make it beautiful and and
(11:31):
so and so for me, that that next step is
where where the producer comes in and the engineer comes
in and and you know, that was the thing about
Shootary really uses the studio as a as an instrument.
You know. For him, it's uh, you know, he he
plays a little of everything, I think, and he knows
how the instruments work, but his his the instrument that
(11:54):
he's strongest on is the actual recording studio.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You so you've recorded straight to tape? Was this all analog?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean, well, all my albums except for
one and are all recorded to tape and then and
then we transfer to digital because for the sake of efficiency,
for the sake of being able to really see all
of our options. Aside from it being more affordable time
(12:25):
time wise, it's also there are a million things you
can do in the digital recording world that are are
nearly impossible, if not impossible, when you're in analog modes.
So they have they have their own worlds, they have
their own purpose, and it's like in the recording process
(12:48):
for me, it's like I want I want both of
those factors, you know. I want the foundation that I'm
familiar with and comfortable with to build on, and then
I want to see what we can create around it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So when you're in the studio, is it basically set
up for your comfort? Does does somebody like shooter or
know how to I'll put down a special carpet.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
No, no, no, you know, we go in and each
you know, it's kind of interesting because a lot of
people will I suppose if you have a you know,
a big enough budget, or if I'm there, I'm there
to work, you know. So as long as I have
a path to get from point A to point B,
you know, I'm going from playing the piano, then I go, okay,
(13:32):
this needs a B three pass on the hamlet. So
I go over the organ and I play that. I
do it in real time a lot of as much
as I can, right after another, because it's in my head.
Right Then I take the and then I go, okay,
I'm gonna play the guitar. I'll play a guitar pass.
I'll do one electric pass now and everyone has done
(13:54):
their part, and while I'm overdubbing, say a guitar part
or an organ part, and Gary Maliber, who plays drums
with me, might go and overdub percussion part. So we'll
we'll capture a couple things at once while we're while
we're overdubbing, and then if there's solo or something like
(14:16):
that that we might want to think about a little
bit more. If I didn't, if I didn't capture it
on the first pass while I was singing and playing
whatever instrument I'm singing and playing live on, then then
and that becomes part of the basic track. Then if
it's not there, then I go back and I and
(14:36):
that's an overdub. That's a separate overdubb day. If I
want to invite someone in that has a completely different
sound or wonderful guitar player, violinist or horn player, singers, whatever,
you just want to be able to have enough time
with that individual where they can do the thing that
they're so great at doing and not feel rushed.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, how did the band come together? You knew the
these guys for years in just.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, rhythm section based in drums, I've worked with for
over a decade, starting with David Barrard. David I've met
when I was nineteen. He was with Doctor John for
almost forty years and also was with Eddie James and
the Nevills and bb King and so we kind of
had all of these paths that crossed, certainly beginning with
(15:28):
meeting him through Doctor John, but then also because of
the fact that I had done so many shows with
the Nevils and and also had toured with Bbe King
and also had been at stablemate labelmate with Edda and
had played with her. So we you know, we had
a lot of connections and we had lost touch, and
(15:50):
Alan Tussont connected us again when I was working with
him around twenty fourteen or so. And then Gary Malib
I had, of course I'd known his work from you
know Moondance and two Blow Honey and those iconic you
know Van Morrison and all those records he played drums
on and and vibes and whatever else he did, and
(16:14):
but he he was the drummer with Steve Miller band
for twenty eight years and on all those records, Joe Walsh, Frampton, Springsteen,
Bonnie Ray, America. I mean He's been on hundreds of
iconic records. So we met in a demo session in
Los Angeles, you know where he lives, probably almost twenty
(16:37):
years ago, but it's it was like maybe about ten
years ago. I was I was needing a really solid
drummer to come in and and he was the He
was like the perfect, perfect person and was really into it.
Is just a wonderful person to be around, you know,
(16:57):
so easy and and everyone that's a is personality is
such a big part of this. And it's like, I've
never met a studio musician, or for that matter, a
veteran touring musician who's truly great at what they do
that is not wonderful to be around. It is half
of the job as just being a decent person and
(17:20):
being you know, easygoing, you know, and and so and
then James Penna Baker, who plays guitar and violin with me.
He's also a wonderful steel player, multi instrumentalist, great utility player.
I met him thirty years ago. We were both we
(17:43):
were on Austin City limits and James was playing guitar
and steel and fiddle and maybe mandolin with Leroy Parnell.
We were both on Austin City Linits they do two
bands at night, you know, and they don't necessarily show
it that way, but they record to And so I
(18:03):
met him there, really nice guy, and we reconnected when
I moved back to Nashville. I guess it was two
thousand and eight or something when I first moved there
and I connected with him. And then when I moved back,
I was kind of in and out of town for
a couple of years and I reached out to him.
(18:28):
It must have been like twenty fifteen or something like that,
and just kind of connected. And then about three years
ago he joined the group and it's been wonderful. And
then the ladies are the singers are so great. And
Jackie Wilson I met her through through James because she's
(18:50):
just a wonderful singer and does studio work and she
was one on American Idol among other things for a
spell and for a season. And then she recommended Catrice,
who she had worked with in different capacities. They had
sung together in different local cover bands and things like that.
(19:13):
And Katrise had you know, grown up, I'm singing in
the choir in church and has you know, worked with
Carrie Underwood and a bunch of different folks, and so
it's a really accomplished band of musicians. And you know,
they we record together, we toured together, and I feel
(19:33):
pretty privileged.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it's an awesome wall of sound.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
As we hear on complications of love your single, Yeah, yeah,
tango versus you know and django, it's just Latin infused.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's like, how are you inspired by that? Did you?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Did you always love that music or did you Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I always loved it, and I was, you know, it's
it's a combination of a bunch of things. And I
had written the music maybe a year before I even
thought about putting a year or two maybe before I
put any words to it or even thought about it
(20:12):
was such a cool kind of instrumental piece. I wasn't
sure where I would use it, but I thought I
could develop it as an instrumental for something somewhere I
didn't know where. And it has these like kind of
diminished guitar runs that I'm playing, which are bring that
kind of django ish, you know, gypsy jazz sound to it.
(20:36):
And then but the groove of it's almost a tango.
It's it has that it's just it's like the it's
the music of romance, you know. It's kind of a
little mysterious and a minor with a major resolve, which
always makes everything feel feel good in a way. And
then the solo section is something is like a riff.
(21:00):
I'm playing it on guitar, but it's a kind of
a riff on a on a showpan tude that I
played on pian so so it was on the recording.
I just play it like that, and it's unison with
the with the violin, So it really is a kind
of a just it's it's kind of standalone piece on
the record. It's I think it's partner in a way
(21:22):
on each each song on this album kind of has
a partner in the sense that any one song would
have whether it's an A side or a B side
of a forty five, would have its partner on the
other side. So like for me, like Complications of Love
would be the flip side to the song the Finest Line,
(21:46):
you know, which Margo Price sings on with me and
also has this very kind of ethereal, beautiful, mysterious kind
of quality to it, you know, minor to major and
all of that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So yeah, how did you find Margot Price? I mean,
that's that's and this is your closing track. The finest
line is, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I didn't she found. She found me in at Shooters
Studio at Sunset Sound. She dropped in. She was in
La for I think about a month, and and she
she came by and heard what we were doing and said, hey,
(22:28):
if you if you'd like, if you needed someone to
sing background, or would like to sing a duet or anything,
you know, let me know. And with finest line, I
had written the song on guitar, not hadn't completed it.
I'd been kind of toying with the lyrics again and again.
And it's such a it's a simple song, except it's
(22:52):
it's kind of deceiving in that way. That's all simple
things are are beautiful in my opinion. And it because
it requires I think, a level of of of certain
(23:12):
mastery of or psychology, philosophy, whatever you consider it, more
than just musicianship. It requires a zen state to be
able to create something that is simple without being simplistic,
you know. And and I think that with you know,
(23:33):
with that song, I was writing finishing the lyrics on
the plane on my way to the studio on my
way to California, and I was, you know, and it
was like and I played the song right before I
left my house. I put a demo down of the
of the song just on piano, like, oh, that really
sounds much better than having it on guitar. So I
(23:55):
played it for Shooters, like, you know, before we got
started with recording. I'm like, let's go through everything we're
gonna record. You tell me if you think something. I
had more songs than we needed, you know, And and
he was like, I love that song. And so when
she said would you be interested? I looked at that
(24:17):
song and I and I took each verse. I split
it in two. So I'm like, this is a really
interesting duet and I'm just it's one of my favorites
on the record.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. Yeah, and great idea as a closing track. How
does the order work for you? Do you go over
with somebody like Shooter, I mean, listen to things separately.
How you're going to decide the order on this album?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, we did it. We did it together. But there's
a formula that I've used. Don Was actually turned me
on to it when I on my first record. He
wasn't my producer. He was just in this happened by
the studio. He said, do you know how it's what
order are you going to put it in? And I
said not really And he said, well, you know, Paul
(25:02):
Simon always had told me this, that he always when
he's putting the order of the album together, it's all ascending,
dramatically ascending, so that even if the next song is
a ballad after an up tempo piece of music, you
feel like you're not going backwards. It's not it's it's
(25:25):
you're lifted by the fact that it's it's the next
key up. So I I've always taken that to heart.
It doesn't always work. It doesn't work for every artist.
There's a lot of artists that play a lot of
the things in the same key, but I play in
a lot of different keys, and so it really works
for me. And and it's it's helped me put you know,
(25:49):
songs together. You know, you can always second guess, you
can always say, you know, I wouldn't have mind putting
bit switching these two, but but all in all, you know,
no regrets, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So before you go into a place
like sunsets and you know You're coming off the Plane?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Are all these lyrics yours?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Because you co wrote with Gary Nicholson for Complications, Love
is Everything Else written by you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, we wrote. We wrote a few songs together Gary
and I. We wrote Complications. We wrote Hey Margarita again.
You know, I write the music on this album. That
was a little different than most every other album. I
wrote the music for nearly everything and then put lyrics
to it. I had never done that, and I've found
(26:36):
that I can because I can come up with different
musical concepts and motifs really easily. I like to find
something that sort of has a melodic story or a
rhythmic story anyway, and it really did inform the story,
(27:00):
you know, it informed what this song was going to
feel like. So when when when I played Hey Margarita,
which is something that I had written the music for,
it was like a It's like I don't know if
you're familiar with Hubert someone who was the guitar player
with Helen Wolff, but he had this really wonderful knack
(27:25):
for playing a riff that became kind of the sound
of the song, so like like smokestack, like for example,
bump Bomb and and and those kind of things that
he would do with with with Helen Wolfe. But also
(27:48):
it had this kind of I wanted the tone of
like and of like, uh link ray you know this
again someone else who had a real knack for coming
up with these melodic hooks on on on guitar that
you just you can't forget, you know. It's and so
(28:09):
kind of those that combined is basically you know, hey, Margarite,
it's a blues song, except it's loosely based around a
character in a Bolgakov novel. Oh yeah, so, like, I mean,
how many blue songs are based around a mid twentieth
century Russian novel? But but like this is the only
(28:32):
one I know of.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
An original there. Wow, very well done.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, so you're kind of like I can understand somebody
like a Nelton Johnson a struggling over lyrics.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
It's like I got my guy here.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now. I love writing lyrics. It's just that sometimes like
there were a few times I've written with Gary, you know,
on and off for thirty years, and there are sometimes
have a thing, especially if it's BLUESI ish bluesy kind
of soulful kind of thing. It's in Gary's Wheelhouse. You know,
(29:08):
I wrote with John Oates on this. We wrote Reunion,
which was first it was the title track for his
latest album, and then and then I recorded it completely
different different key, you know, we put the verses in
different order, and yet it really holds up. And and
(29:30):
and that was, you know, a lot of collaboration on this,
that one. You know, we wrote together from beginning to end.
He had this idea. He had seen his father, who
was one hundred years old. This was the beginning of
last year, and he said, you know, I'm ready for
my reunion. I'm ready, I'm ready to go. I'm ready
(29:54):
to go and see the people that I that I
have been missing. And and that's and that's exactly what he
did at one hundred years old. And I just thought,
what an interesting idea. And he was like, I kind
(30:15):
of hear a gospel thing, and but he was playing
it in four four times, and I said, there's no
gospel four four times. It has to be in six
eight or three four, you know, And and and so
I put it. I put it in six eight, and
it just all of a sudden it kind of clicked,
and we we had it with uh with the single
(30:38):
that's that's out right now. I got a feeling again.
I had the music for it. It really I was
on the road. I was out in California, and and
I I had my my electric guitar, and I was
it was a day off, and and I was came
(31:00):
up with that riff, like it just reminds me of
like a it's like a shug yotis or it reminds
me of the Chambers brothers, or like slide in the
family Stone kind of riff that they would have. And
that psychedelic soul you know, I love that era of
music and and and I love that. I mean, it's like,
(31:24):
I don't know if you can call it a genre.
There wasn't a ton of it, but what what came
out of that, of that kind of combination of of
like psychedelia and soul music and rock and roll was
so wonderful. And uh so with that, I really felt
like I had these lyrics. I had the first line
(31:44):
I had, I written, had written pretty much the whole song,
and the shape of the melody was really the same.
But it's a little too conversational. And I'm like having
conversational lyrics like you would have in a country song
or you know, maybe even a pop song doesn't work
necessarily with this tune. It needs to be a little
(32:05):
more esoteric. So when I got back to Nashville, I
sat down with Tommy Simms, who's worked a lot in
Atlanta where you are with base bass and Tony Braxton
and as a producer, bass player, songwriter. He co wrote
Changed the World for Eric Clapton and a bunch of
(32:25):
other things. Anyway, he lives in Nashville, and we connected.
It's the only thing we've ever written together. But I
just knew, based on the work that he had done,
that he would be a good person to write some
esoteric lyrics with me on that song, you know. And
that's how it came about, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, yeah, big name here, Yeah exactly, Tony Bradstone, Yeah,
I haven't thought of those names in a long time.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Actually, yeah, yeah, Tommy, A great boogie woogie song.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I kind of get that Billy Preston vibe where I
just you know, they reran that for Saturday Night Live
a few days ago. I'm like, yeah, I totally forgot
about Billy Preston for a long time, and.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Oh whoa, I know, I love him.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, just absolutely what wonderful And I got a feeling
has a performance video out there. You got your wonderful
backing vocalists on that too. It really rounds it out.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Oh yeah, they're great, They're great, and it's such a
you know, the band is just playing great on that.
You know, I wish I could play all the instruments.
I'm playing the lead guitar and I'm playing also playing
the keyboard on it, and unfortunately it's one of those
things where I had to pick or choose and a
stronger line is that guitar line. So I leave it
(33:39):
up to Penna Baker to cover the solo on that.
He does a great job kind of riffing on the
on the keyboard part that I played on it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, So Reunion as John Oates approved, that's oh.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, we played it together live. He actually joined me.
We did a show. Uh it was would have been
my dad's birthday and and he he came to Philly
and we uh we performed, Uh, we performed one of
my dad songs, one of one of John's songs with
(34:16):
my band and uh, She's gone. And then we did Reunion,
which which we did as a piece where we start
off in his key, and he sang the first half,
and then I switch modulate to my key and then
I played the I played the second uh sing the
(34:36):
second half, and it was really really fun and and
quite dangerous in the sense that we there is no
there was no safety net on that one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, a lot of people know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You know, that's the Philly connection there, and so much
soul that he has. It's just I love that that voice.
It just like it was so complimentary for all those
years and him going out there very.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Recently, he just came here.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You guys have played similar venues here in Atlanta too,
like including Eddie's Attic, which I always.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah that it's been a long time. Yeah, we'll be back.
We'll be back. I know we played the cob last time.
I think that's where we're playing again, but I'm not
sure that'll be in the fall.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Com Energy Center has got really decent acoustics.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I really like seeing shows there. It's a good venue.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
It sounded great, it really did.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it's so much changed here in the atl This
is the suburban atl where Cob Energy is and many
moons ago, I lived like right down the street. I
never would have thought there would be a huge performing
arts center in that space, and then.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
The Braves Ballpark is that I never would have imagined.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I've seen concerts there. Went backstage to Billy Joelder. I
was like, if you told me that years ago, I
would like, you're crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Time changes, Oh yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And yeah, there's there's good venues. I remember playing with
John Mayel there at Variety Arts. Yeah, and that was
a that was a really that was a fun little venue.
I mean it's much smaller, but I loved I loved it.
You know, it had a had a great vibe to it.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, Seem's had a lot of fun on that tour.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Croachy plays Croachy. I'm sure it was a great turnout
as well.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was amazing. You know, it's you know,
this is it's it's really interesting. I avoided it for
my entire career to performing my father's music, and as
you know, and and then as I embraced it in
a really what felt a very natural way and embraced
(36:43):
the songs and the stories and everything about creating that show.
It took a lot of time to put together. It
was I've found it rewarding in a way that I
never would have expected, and I found fans I never
would have expected to find through that through those performances,
and I think people discovered me became fans because of
(37:07):
because of that tour, and it allowed me to play
larger venues than than I've ever played. And certainly, you know,
it's you know, now is the is the test you know,
out on Heart of the Eternal after playing all of
those wonderful theaters, Will I be able to sell them
out again? You know? That's the you know, that is
(37:30):
the nightmare that I have. Will they come? You know,
will they come to hear hear me? You know? And
not that I don't include some of my dad's hits,
but you know, it's geared towards the new album and
geared towards my music and and for over the last
you know, thirty five years. But it does have a
(37:51):
lot of similarities to The Croachy Show. After doing that
for three years, it really some of those songs really
became a part of the set of what I would
want to perform because they really they suit me in
a way. I found a way to do them in
a way that was really complimented my style.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to bring back
some of the covers, like even John Oates, I'll do
a couple of those Holan notes songs put him towards
the end. Hey, you want to hear my eighties song? Here,
I'll do it now, towards the end. Yeah, nothing wrong
with that. I think people, you know, it's what gets
them in there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And but I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Sure it's it's a struggle too when they just want
to you know, oh, I just want to hear the hits. Yeah,
that could be a little frustrating too, but that's the
music business.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Once you Yeah, I think once you come to terms
with that, once you're okay with it, you know, once
you don't take it personally, it's nothing because they really
love they just want It's not that they don't love you.
It's that they love this thing that they it meant
something to them. It's powerful. Music is powerful that way,
(38:56):
and nostalgia is incredibly powerful. Are past you know, you
think of where you hear any song, and of course
there can be things that change the way you hear
a song as you get older. It might be a
song you didn't that never resonated and all of a
sudden you hear it in a different place, in a
different context, at at different age, and all of a
(39:17):
sudden it's relevant.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, it's so true with with with especially the legacy
artists who struggle with their own catalog, and some have
to play the same thing over and over, and I'm
sure they get sick of it.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
But like that's what the people paid for to come
in and.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Say, well, and it's and it's what they're paid for,
you know. And so I think if you can, as
long as you can be at peace with the fact
that maybe the work that is, you know, maybe most
resonant for an audience is not your most recent work
for any number of reasons. Some of it's just timing,
(39:57):
some of it's just is marketing and and people just
hearing it. But also a lot of a lot of
artists are part of a genre or part of an
era so so cemented to that some are so cemented
to their own catalog because they had such success at
(40:18):
a period of time that it just is lightning in
a bottle and it is that period of time, and
so it's there are very few artists that escape it,
you know. I mean, Dylan doesn't escape, but the Stones
don't escape it. McCartney doesn't escape it, you know, I mean,
they're all they're all rare acts that you know. I
(40:42):
mean you mentioned Billy Joel. He didn't escape it. John
didn't escape it. But they had such a volume of
wonderful songs that resonated and and and those are exceptions,
you know, where they they had maybe you know, fifty
years of real huge, hugely creative period of time where
(41:07):
they were really tapped into something special. And and in
those cases, you know, they're at least their catalog is
straddles a couple, a couple eras you know. And uh,
and so they have they have a dynamic, more dynamic show,
I should say, you know. And but look, I think
(41:29):
everyone that tours is grateful for the people that come.
It's you know, I feel it's a gift. It's that
is two sided, you know, in the sense that I
get to enjoy the company of the audience and take
them on this musical adventure. And and so to me
(41:56):
it's a gift to have that privilege. And then hopefully
they feel that spirit of generosity and joy that I
have by doing what I love. And I think that's
the infectious part of it.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, and it's just so inspiring to see not just
yourself with like legacy artists still creating, You're still getting
out there, you're mixing it in and still growing and
challenging yourselves. I think that's really important to do over
all this time now this new album. How long did
it take to record total when you went out to
(42:30):
LA nine days?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
You hear about people who toil over you know Steely
Dana was watching some documentary about them, how long it
took to do.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
No one that's a budget like that. I mean maybe
maybe a few people, but very few people have a
budget like that. There are some people that have amazing
home studios. Generally with home studios, people just toil for
too long and they overshoot the mark if it and
(43:05):
so like being in an in a great recording studio
where you have a lot of external input the way
they did the way that a lot of you know,
Bowie albums. You know, he came in without anything and
and you know wrote in the studio. You know, I've
always dreamt that that that I would be able to,
(43:27):
you know, do that. We've even if it was just
for a song. Just like go like, okay, just do
whatevery whatever you can think of. You know, I want,
you know, more digital dues. You know, I need I
need twenty Mandolins for this now I'm just joking, but like, uh,
not to overproduce it, but to be able to have
(43:48):
the time to actually really listen and re listen. It's
less about playing and more about like getting in side
of a piece of music and and figuring out maybe
how to make it simpler than more complicated, like I
(44:11):
was talking about earlier.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I mean it brings me to Peter Gabriel who just
you know, he will say, no, I'm just doing really
the bulk of this is my new stuff and puts
it out there and it's just amazing. But gosh, somebody
who can toil forever on something, right, His volume is amazing,
His output is incredible. But yeah, it takes a while.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah, oh yeah. And you know, there are some artists
who are I think privileged in the sense that they
built a career out of being both you know, truly
brilliant unexl like you don't really know what to expect,
(45:00):
and that becomes like in you know, my generation, I think,
you know, I think of Beck or I think of
like Fiona Apple, or I think of like of a
number of artists who have a very set sound, so
you kind of know, you know what their voice is,
but you don't know what where it's going to go.
(45:21):
And if they say I'm just doing this new album
or this new concept for the tour, you would still
go because you want to see what their concept is
because they've they work with such interesting people, They collaborate
with such great musicians and producers and engineers, and you
kind of want to see and hear where where their
(45:42):
heads were at. And you know, there's not a lot
of artists like that, you know. I think Elvis Costello
was like that, Tom Waits was like that, and you know,
but it's but they but they're older now and it's
and it's different, you know. And I think they had
careers for most of their career that they could pick
(46:04):
and choose, because it at times, maybe it was a
cult following. At times they might have had a popular
audience that was a little bit bigger, but it was
always pretty much based on their artistic approach, you know,
more than more than just a song or a sound.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, that is incredibly true.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, it's just it's it's really great, and it's great
you're getting out there and you know, the crowds are
coming in and you have a good connection with the
audience for as long as you've been performing live and
this is going back to the San Diego days.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, Well, best wishes on this tour, stay safe on
this tour, and we hope to see you soon.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
All right, Thanks Bob, take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And thank you so much for stopping by. It has
just been so fun. I love speaking with AJ just
a multi talented musician, gifted songwriter.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Thank you so much, See you next time.
Hello, Hello, and welcome to my little corner of the world.
Thank you for joining me. This is a very special
day for me. I just had a birthday, so lots
of fun there. I don't know, I just you know,
it's another trip around the sun, that's all it is. Well,
thank you so much for joining me today. Again I
have on the program AJ Crouchy. This is one of
my favorite interviewees that I have had on this podcast
(00:22):
for many years now and written about Aja, did print
articles about Aja. I did a video feature about Aja.
You can go to my LinkedIn page and see the
feature I did back in twenty seventeen. It is just
so fun speaking with Aj. We have a really great conversation.
We talk about his new album, which is just out
(00:46):
get it wherever you get your music.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
There's a whole bunch of different genres on this album
that he hasn't really done before.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
So I hope you enjoy this. You and Sonny or Orlando.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I am I just pulled into uh just pulled in,
got off the bus and here I am at backstage.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thanks so much. When a sound check, I don't want
to keep you too long.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here, Oh no, no, I'm good. Yeah, how's life great.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It's a little chilly here in the atl.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, I bet, yeah, I know. Nashville's frigid right now.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So yeah, you get even more in the winter time,
which is like, we're not used to this.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
It's like, I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, home of rock and roll,
in all of that, and oh my gosh, you know,
but it's been thirty six years.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Of course. Yeah, no, I mean, and it's easy to forget,
and it's easy to want to forget winters. Oh, it's
scoveling snow and salting it.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh my god, I have a bad back. To prove it.
I started shoveling snow when I was in second grade.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And oh yeah, that the price you weren't younger.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
We'll put us to work back then.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yah.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Anyway, so this is a whirlwind tour that you're doing.
You're in the South, which is smart as we're talking
about weather. Yeah, so very very good strategy going through
Florida first, and as we get into springtime you start
moving up north.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, how is life on the road? You're still doing it?
Speaker 3 (02:24):
After I am, I am, it's it's it's been good
you know, three years of the Croachy Place Croachy Tour.
It just kept on going and it was so much fun.
And and you know, during during the little time that
we had off the road, I was writing and compiling things,
(02:46):
putting things together ideas for a record. And last last year,
around this time, we recorded, uh, started recording, and and
it was like, uh, it was really a fun, fun project. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
What made it difference this time? This is now ten
albums in now eleven eleven Oh my gosh, I know
eleven tracks as well as that was.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
That yeah, yeah, okay, not not an accident.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Just yeah, happenstance, as it always.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Says, Yeah, yeah it was. I don't know. You asked
what made it special? Uh, there were a lot of things.
I think there was a camaraderie with the with the band.
You know, I'm touring with such legendary players, you know
these guys, uh, and uh, they've you know, they've been
on so many great records, and so I get to
(03:39):
really bring the album to the stage. So knowing that beforehand,
knowing that in the process of making this record that
I was going to be traveling with the same band
and all the same singers, I I really I knew.
I went in with a certain confidence, there was a
(04:00):
certain camaraderie at that point. We were just you know,
we played every one of these songs live at one
time or another during the tour. To see how audience
has reacted is just see how it felt. Don't always
get to do that. There were there were just a
lot of factors that made it fun, relaxing and and inspired,
(04:25):
you know. At the same time, I think everyone had
a lot of trust in one another. I came in
with really pretty clear arrangements, and then working with Shooter
was was really fun. We just get along so well.
He's a wonderful friend and and I just I love
his approach.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Shooter Jennings.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
That name comes up work with Brandy Carlisle as I
have been saying, Yeah, well, I mean, a total veteran,
So it must have been great. It's great to have
a producer who makes you feel comfortable as you're putting
a project together, working in the studio. It's it must
really be a really good feeling when somebody like that
who's a veteran can help you out, you.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Know, And and and it's funny you say that, because it's
funny you say that because you know, he's the youngest
producer I've ever had, and and of all I've you know,
worked with all of these guys who were you know,
my parents' generation for most of my career, you know,
John Simon and Keltner on my second one, Jim Gaines
(05:30):
and Alan Tucson and all of the Cowboy Jack Clement
and Mitchell Froome and on and on and on, all
of these legendary producers who had really had their own style,
their own way of doing things. And I think that
with with this project, I really wanted to put myself
(05:51):
in a situation where I was a little I was
taking a little bit of a risk, I was outside
of my element. I wanted to see what he would
bring to the party. And and so that was it. It was,
it was. I think all of those factors played into
(06:12):
it being unique in its way.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, it's not just one thematic element. Through this new recording.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
You've got psychedelia, You've got Philly's soul, which is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
So a part of you.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And I love this single where You've got just like
this real Spanish feel to it, and.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Oh what a wonderful video that goes with it too.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah, you know, it's it's diverse.
I think that where in the past I was so
concerned about the diversity of genre and era and style,
felt like it was something that I should worry about.
(06:57):
I began to realize that it's what my audiences love
about what I do. What may have been a challenge
earlier in my career ended up being an asset, you know,
and it was something that you know, I've really embraced
and finding a way to communicate all of these different
(07:23):
ideas in different styles of things on different instruments and
still managed to hold it together and make a really
interesting album out of it. You know. It was maybe
the first time I really came at it with that perspective.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, heart of the eternal. Where's the origin for that
album title?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Music? Music is the heart of the eternal? You know.
It is that thing that is profound and huge and universal.
I think that we all have, uh, we all have
that piece that we feel in our own creative life,
(08:09):
regardless of what you do for a living, that is
this piece that is universal and beautiful and timeless, and
and I think that was really where it came from.
You know, that's where a lot of the titles, uh
from my for my albums have come from were if
(08:31):
it wasn't self titled, it was it was where I
was thinking of the music coming from. You know, how
where was I in my in my career? How did
how did it reflect on the on what I was doing?
And I think that this album has that kind of
(08:51):
has that kind of universality that just really kind of
gave me a confidence to to do what I did.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, and in the tour, you were touring at the
same time, so you were going back and forth. How
did that schedule work out for you and you're on
tour and were you always heading back to where you
recorded it or did you do files and send them in.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
And have those live? You know, I'm kind of old
fashioned in that way, and I've not had a really
big budget and god since I started really so time
is of the essence. I came in with arrangements. I
knew how how I wanted what I wanted on the songs.
I'm always open to happy accidents. That is the magic
(09:40):
of recording. It's the magic of working with great musicians
that you trust. It's the magic of working with great
producers and engineers who you trust, and you can work
outside of your comfort zone sometime and know you're safe.
And I think the fundamentals of what I do have
been really consistent. Like a painter, UH will use Jesso
(10:03):
or you know, or prim er you know to UH
as a bass code. Now, that bass code plays a
lot of plays a big role in the depth of
the of of a painting, and or of of a wall,
or of in my case, of of an album and
the recording quality of it, because I love to record
(10:25):
to tape and because I love the compression that that offers.
It's it's almost unheard, but there's this compression sound that
you can hear from the tape front through a vimtage board,
through old microphones. You know, there was a reason they
didn't need to master old recordings. They were it was
(10:48):
all the all the compression that was needed up through
up through the early sixties was all in the gear
it was. It was, it had that innate compression. And
then after that things, you know, things changed in the
mid sixties, and I think I always love the way
(11:09):
that that compression sounds. It's almost like white noise. And
to me, it's like the bass code now now we've
got that bass code, let's what what are we gonna have?
You know that that's fine and good and that that
can be great, but we got to paint something great
to fill the space and make it beautiful and and
(11:31):
so and so for me, that that next step is
where where the producer comes in and the engineer comes
in and and you know, that was the thing about
Shootary really uses the studio as a as an instrument.
You know. For him, it's uh, you know, he he
plays a little of everything, I think, and he knows
how the instruments work, but his his the instrument that
(11:54):
he's strongest on is the actual recording studio.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
You so you've recorded straight to tape? Was this all analog?
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean, well, all my albums except for
one and are all recorded to tape and then and
then we transfer to digital because for the sake of efficiency,
for the sake of being able to really see all
of our options. Aside from it being more affordable time
(12:25):
time wise, it's also there are a million things you
can do in the digital recording world that are are
nearly impossible, if not impossible, when you're in analog modes.
So they have they have their own worlds, they have
their own purpose, and it's like in the recording process
(12:48):
for me, it's like I want I want both of
those factors, you know. I want the foundation that I'm
familiar with and comfortable with to build on, and then
I want to see what we can create around it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So when you're in the studio, is it basically set
up for your comfort? Does does somebody like shooter or
know how to I'll put down a special carpet.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
No, no, no, you know, we go in and each
you know, it's kind of interesting because a lot of
people will I suppose if you have a you know,
a big enough budget, or if I'm there, I'm there
to work, you know. So as long as I have
a path to get from point A to point B,
you know, I'm going from playing the piano, then I go, okay,
(13:32):
this needs a B three pass on the hamlet. So
I go over the organ and I play that. I
do it in real time a lot of as much
as I can, right after another, because it's in my head.
Right Then I take the and then I go, okay,
I'm gonna play the guitar. I'll play a guitar pass.
I'll do one electric pass now and everyone has done
(13:54):
their part, and while I'm overdubbing, say a guitar part
or an organ part, and Gary Maliber, who plays drums
with me, might go and overdub percussion part. So we'll
we'll capture a couple things at once while we're while
we're overdubbing, and then if there's solo or something like
(14:16):
that that we might want to think about a little
bit more. If I didn't, if I didn't capture it
on the first pass while I was singing and playing
whatever instrument I'm singing and playing live on, then then
and that becomes part of the basic track. Then if
it's not there, then I go back and I and
(14:36):
that's an overdub. That's a separate overdubb day. If I
want to invite someone in that has a completely different
sound or wonderful guitar player, violinist or horn player, singers, whatever,
you just want to be able to have enough time
with that individual where they can do the thing that
they're so great at doing and not feel rushed.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, how did the band come together? You knew the
these guys for years in just.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, rhythm section based in drums, I've worked with for
over a decade, starting with David Barrard. David I've met
when I was nineteen. He was with Doctor John for
almost forty years and also was with Eddie James and
the Nevills and bb King and so we kind of
had all of these paths that crossed, certainly beginning with
(15:28):
meeting him through Doctor John, but then also because of
the fact that I had done so many shows with
the Nevils and and also had toured with Bbe King
and also had been at stablemate labelmate with Edda and
had played with her. So we you know, we had
a lot of connections and we had lost touch, and
(15:50):
Alan Tussont connected us again when I was working with
him around twenty fourteen or so. And then Gary Malib
I had, of course I'd known his work from you
know Moondance and two Blow Honey and those iconic you
know Van Morrison and all those records he played drums
on and and vibes and whatever else he did, and
(16:14):
but he he was the drummer with Steve Miller band
for twenty eight years and on all those records, Joe Walsh, Frampton, Springsteen,
Bonnie Ray, America. I mean He's been on hundreds of
iconic records. So we met in a demo session in
Los Angeles, you know where he lives, probably almost twenty
(16:37):
years ago, but it's it was like maybe about ten
years ago. I was I was needing a really solid
drummer to come in and and he was the He
was like the perfect, perfect person and was really into it.
Is just a wonderful person to be around, you know,
(16:57):
so easy and and everyone that's a is personality is
such a big part of this. And it's like, I've
never met a studio musician, or for that matter, a
veteran touring musician who's truly great at what they do
that is not wonderful to be around. It is half
of the job as just being a decent person and
(17:20):
being you know, easygoing, you know, and and so and
then James Penna Baker, who plays guitar and violin with me.
He's also a wonderful steel player, multi instrumentalist, great utility player.
I met him thirty years ago. We were both we
(17:43):
were on Austin City limits and James was playing guitar
and steel and fiddle and maybe mandolin with Leroy Parnell.
We were both on Austin City Linits they do two
bands at night, you know, and they don't necessarily show
it that way, but they record to And so I
(18:03):
met him there, really nice guy, and we reconnected when
I moved back to Nashville. I guess it was two
thousand and eight or something when I first moved there
and I connected with him. And then when I moved back,
I was kind of in and out of town for
a couple of years and I reached out to him.
(18:28):
It must have been like twenty fifteen or something like that,
and just kind of connected. And then about three years
ago he joined the group and it's been wonderful. And
then the ladies are the singers are so great. And
Jackie Wilson I met her through through James because she's
(18:50):
just a wonderful singer and does studio work and she
was one on American Idol among other things for a
spell and for a season. And then she recommended Catrice,
who she had worked with in different capacities. They had
sung together in different local cover bands and things like that.
(19:13):
And Katrise had you know, grown up, I'm singing in
the choir in church and has you know, worked with
Carrie Underwood and a bunch of different folks, and so
it's a really accomplished band of musicians. And you know,
they we record together, we toured together, and I feel
(19:33):
pretty privileged.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it's an awesome wall of sound.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
As we hear on complications of love your single, Yeah, yeah,
tango versus you know and django, it's just Latin infused.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's like, how are you inspired by that? Did you?
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Did you always love that music or did you Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I always loved it, and I was, you know, it's
it's a combination of a bunch of things. And I
had written the music maybe a year before I even
thought about putting a year or two maybe before I
put any words to it or even thought about it
(20:12):
was such a cool kind of instrumental piece. I wasn't
sure where I would use it, but I thought I
could develop it as an instrumental for something somewhere I
didn't know where. And it has these like kind of
diminished guitar runs that I'm playing, which are bring that
kind of django ish, you know, gypsy jazz sound to it.
(20:36):
And then but the groove of it's almost a tango.
It's it has that it's just it's like the it's
the music of romance, you know. It's kind of a
little mysterious and a minor with a major resolve, which
always makes everything feel feel good in a way. And
then the solo section is something is like a riff.
(21:00):
I'm playing it on guitar, but it's a kind of
a riff on a on a showpan tude that I
played on pian so so it was on the recording.
I just play it like that, and it's unison with
the with the violin, So it really is a kind
of a just it's it's kind of standalone piece on
the record. It's I think it's partner in a way
(21:22):
on each each song on this album kind of has
a partner in the sense that any one song would
have whether it's an A side or a B side
of a forty five, would have its partner on the
other side. So like for me, like Complications of Love
would be the flip side to the song the Finest Line,
(21:46):
you know, which Margo Price sings on with me and
also has this very kind of ethereal, beautiful, mysterious kind
of quality to it, you know, minor to major and
all of that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So yeah, how did you find Margot Price? I mean,
that's that's and this is your closing track. The finest
line is, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
I didn't she found. She found me in at Shooters
Studio at Sunset Sound. She dropped in. She was in
La for I think about a month, and and she
she came by and heard what we were doing and said, hey,
(22:28):
if you if you'd like, if you needed someone to
sing background, or would like to sing a duet or anything,
you know, let me know. And with finest line, I
had written the song on guitar, not hadn't completed it.
I'd been kind of toying with the lyrics again and again.
And it's such a it's a simple song, except it's
(22:52):
it's kind of deceiving in that way. That's all simple
things are are beautiful in my opinion. And it because
it requires I think, a level of of of certain
(23:12):
mastery of or psychology, philosophy, whatever you consider it, more
than just musicianship. It requires a zen state to be
able to create something that is simple without being simplistic,
you know. And and I think that with you know,
(23:33):
with that song, I was writing finishing the lyrics on
the plane on my way to the studio on my
way to California, and I was, you know, and it
was like and I played the song right before I
left my house. I put a demo down of the
of the song just on piano, like, oh, that really
sounds much better than having it on guitar. So I
(23:55):
played it for Shooters, like, you know, before we got
started with recording. I'm like, let's go through everything we're
gonna record. You tell me if you think something. I
had more songs than we needed, you know, And and
he was like, I love that song. And so when
she said would you be interested? I looked at that
(24:17):
song and I and I took each verse. I split
it in two. So I'm like, this is a really
interesting duet and I'm just it's one of my favorites
on the record.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah. Yeah, and great idea as a closing track. How
does the order work for you? Do you go over
with somebody like Shooter, I mean, listen to things separately.
How you're going to decide the order on this album?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, we did it. We did it together. But there's
a formula that I've used. Don Was actually turned me
on to it when I on my first record. He
wasn't my producer. He was just in this happened by
the studio. He said, do you know how it's what
order are you going to put it in? And I
said not really And he said, well, you know, Paul
(25:02):
Simon always had told me this, that he always when
he's putting the order of the album together, it's all ascending,
dramatically ascending, so that even if the next song is
a ballad after an up tempo piece of music, you
feel like you're not going backwards. It's not it's it's
(25:25):
you're lifted by the fact that it's it's the next
key up. So I I've always taken that to heart.
It doesn't always work. It doesn't work for every artist.
There's a lot of artists that play a lot of
the things in the same key, but I play in
a lot of different keys, and so it really works
for me. And and it's it's helped me put you know,
(25:49):
songs together. You know, you can always second guess, you
can always say, you know, I wouldn't have mind putting
bit switching these two, but but all in all, you know,
no regrets, that's about it.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So before you go into a place
like sunsets and you know You're coming off the Plane?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Are all these lyrics yours?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Because you co wrote with Gary Nicholson for Complications, Love
is Everything Else written by you?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
No, we wrote. We wrote a few songs together Gary
and I. We wrote Complications. We wrote Hey Margarita again.
You know, I write the music on this album. That
was a little different than most every other album. I
wrote the music for nearly everything and then put lyrics
to it. I had never done that, and I've found
(26:36):
that I can because I can come up with different
musical concepts and motifs really easily. I like to find
something that sort of has a melodic story or a
rhythmic story anyway, and it really did inform the story,
(27:00):
you know, it informed what this song was going to
feel like. So when when when I played Hey Margarita,
which is something that I had written the music for,
it was like a It's like I don't know if
you're familiar with Hubert someone who was the guitar player
with Helen Wolff, but he had this really wonderful knack
(27:25):
for playing a riff that became kind of the sound
of the song, so like like smokestack, like for example,
bump Bomb and and and those kind of things that
he would do with with with Helen Wolfe. But also
(27:48):
it had this kind of I wanted the tone of
like and of like, uh link ray you know this
again someone else who had a real knack for coming
up with these melodic hooks on on on guitar that
you just you can't forget, you know. It's and so
(28:09):
kind of those that combined is basically you know, hey, Margarite,
it's a blues song, except it's loosely based around a
character in a Bolgakov novel. Oh yeah, so, like, I mean,
how many blue songs are based around a mid twentieth
century Russian novel? But but like this is the only
(28:32):
one I know of.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
An original there. Wow, very well done.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, so you're kind of like I can understand somebody
like a Nelton Johnson a struggling over lyrics.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
It's like I got my guy here.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
Now. I love writing lyrics. It's just that sometimes like
there were a few times I've written with Gary, you know,
on and off for thirty years, and there are sometimes
have a thing, especially if it's BLUESI ish bluesy kind
of soulful kind of thing. It's in Gary's Wheelhouse. You know,
(29:08):
I wrote with John Oates on this. We wrote Reunion,
which was first it was the title track for his
latest album, and then and then I recorded it completely
different different key, you know, we put the verses in
different order, and yet it really holds up. And and
(29:30):
and that was, you know, a lot of collaboration on this,
that one. You know, we wrote together from beginning to end.
He had this idea. He had seen his father, who
was one hundred years old. This was the beginning of
last year, and he said, you know, I'm ready for
my reunion. I'm ready, I'm ready to go. I'm ready
(29:54):
to go and see the people that I that I
have been missing. And and that's and that's exactly what he
did at one hundred years old. And I just thought,
what an interesting idea. And he was like, I kind
(30:15):
of hear a gospel thing, and but he was playing
it in four four times, and I said, there's no
gospel four four times. It has to be in six
eight or three four, you know, And and and so
I put it. I put it in six eight, and
it just all of a sudden it kind of clicked,
and we we had it with uh with the single
(30:38):
that's that's out right now. I got a feeling again.
I had the music for it. It really I was
on the road. I was out in California, and and
I I had my my electric guitar, and I was
it was a day off, and and I was came
(31:00):
up with that riff, like it just reminds me of
like a it's like a shug yotis or it reminds
me of the Chambers brothers, or like slide in the
family Stone kind of riff that they would have. And
that psychedelic soul you know, I love that era of
music and and and I love that. I mean, it's like,
(31:24):
I don't know if you can call it a genre.
There wasn't a ton of it, but what what came
out of that, of that kind of combination of of
like psychedelia and soul music and rock and roll was
so wonderful. And uh so with that, I really felt
like I had these lyrics. I had the first line
(31:44):
I had, I written, had written pretty much the whole song,
and the shape of the melody was really the same.
But it's a little too conversational. And I'm like having
conversational lyrics like you would have in a country song
or you know, maybe even a pop song doesn't work
necessarily with this tune. It needs to be a little
(32:05):
more esoteric. So when I got back to Nashville, I
sat down with Tommy Simms, who's worked a lot in
Atlanta where you are with base bass and Tony Braxton
and as a producer, bass player, songwriter. He co wrote
Changed the World for Eric Clapton and a bunch of
(32:25):
other things. Anyway, he lives in Nashville, and we connected.
It's the only thing we've ever written together. But I
just knew, based on the work that he had done,
that he would be a good person to write some
esoteric lyrics with me on that song, you know. And
that's how it came about, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, yeah, big name here, Yeah exactly, Tony Bradstone, Yeah,
I haven't thought of those names in a long time.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Actually, yeah, yeah, Tommy, A great boogie woogie song.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I kind of get that Billy Preston vibe where I
just you know, they reran that for Saturday Night Live
a few days ago. I'm like, yeah, I totally forgot
about Billy Preston for a long time, and.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Oh whoa, I know, I love him.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, just absolutely what wonderful And I got a feeling
has a performance video out there. You got your wonderful
backing vocalists on that too. It really rounds it out.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Oh yeah, they're great, They're great, and it's such a
you know, the band is just playing great on that.
You know, I wish I could play all the instruments.
I'm playing the lead guitar and I'm playing also playing
the keyboard on it, and unfortunately it's one of those
things where I had to pick or choose and a
stronger line is that guitar line. So I leave it
(33:39):
up to Penna Baker to cover the solo on that.
He does a great job kind of riffing on the
on the keyboard part that I played on it.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, So Reunion as John Oates approved, that's oh.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, we played it together live. He actually joined me.
We did a show. Uh it was would have been
my dad's birthday and and he he came to Philly
and we uh we performed, Uh, we performed one of
my dad songs, one of one of John's songs with
(34:16):
my band and uh, She's gone. And then we did Reunion,
which which we did as a piece where we start
off in his key, and he sang the first half,
and then I switch modulate to my key and then
I played the I played the second uh sing the
(34:36):
second half, and it was really really fun and and
quite dangerous in the sense that we there is no
there was no safety net on that one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, a lot of people know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
You know, that's the Philly connection there, and so much
soul that he has. It's just I love that that voice.
It just like it was so complimentary for all those
years and him going out there very.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Recently, he just came here.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
You guys have played similar venues here in Atlanta too,
like including Eddie's Attic, which I always.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah that it's been a long time. Yeah, we'll be back.
We'll be back. I know we played the cob last time.
I think that's where we're playing again, but I'm not
sure that'll be in the fall.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Com Energy Center has got really decent acoustics.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
I really like seeing shows there. It's a good venue.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
It sounded great, it really did.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, it's so much changed here in the atl This
is the suburban atl where Cob Energy is and many
moons ago, I lived like right down the street. I
never would have thought there would be a huge performing
arts center in that space, and then.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
The Braves Ballpark is that I never would have imagined.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
I've seen concerts there. Went backstage to Billy Joelder. I
was like, if you told me that years ago, I
would like, you're crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Time changes, Oh yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
And yeah, there's there's good venues. I remember playing with
John Mayel there at Variety Arts. Yeah, and that was
a that was a really that was a fun little venue.
I mean it's much smaller, but I loved I loved it.
You know, it had a had a great vibe to it.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, Seem's had a lot of fun on that tour.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Croachy plays Croachy. I'm sure it was a great turnout
as well.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Oh yeah, yeah, it was amazing. You know, it's you know,
this is it's it's really interesting. I avoided it for
my entire career to performing my father's music, and as
you know, and and then as I embraced it in
a really what felt a very natural way and embraced
(36:43):
the songs and the stories and everything about creating that show.
It took a lot of time to put together. It
was I've found it rewarding in a way that I
never would have expected, and I found fans I never
would have expected to find through that through those performances,
and I think people discovered me became fans because of
(37:07):
because of that tour, and it allowed me to play
larger venues than than I've ever played. And certainly, you know,
it's you know, now is the is the test you know,
out on Heart of the Eternal after playing all of
those wonderful theaters, Will I be able to sell them
out again? You know? That's the you know, that is
(37:30):
the nightmare that I have. Will they come? You know,
will they come to hear hear me? You know? And
not that I don't include some of my dad's hits,
but you know, it's geared towards the new album and
geared towards my music and and for over the last
you know, thirty five years. But it does have a
(37:51):
lot of similarities to The Croachy Show. After doing that
for three years, it really some of those songs really
became a part of the set of what I would
want to perform because they really they suit me in
a way. I found a way to do them in
a way that was really complimented my style.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to bring back
some of the covers, like even John Oates, I'll do
a couple of those Holan notes songs put him towards
the end. Hey, you want to hear my eighties song? Here,
I'll do it now, towards the end. Yeah, nothing wrong
with that. I think people, you know, it's what gets
them in there.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And but I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Sure it's it's a struggle too when they just want
to you know, oh, I just want to hear the hits. Yeah,
that could be a little frustrating too, but that's the
music business.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Once you Yeah, I think once you come to terms
with that, once you're okay with it, you know, once
you don't take it personally, it's nothing because they really
love they just want It's not that they don't love you.
It's that they love this thing that they it meant
something to them. It's powerful. Music is powerful that way,
(38:56):
and nostalgia is incredibly powerful. Are past you know, you
think of where you hear any song, and of course
there can be things that change the way you hear
a song as you get older. It might be a
song you didn't that never resonated and all of a
sudden you hear it in a different place, in a
different context, at at different age, and all of a
(39:17):
sudden it's relevant.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, it's so true with with with especially the legacy
artists who struggle with their own catalog, and some have
to play the same thing over and over, and I'm
sure they get sick of it.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
But like that's what the people paid for to come
in and.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Say, well, and it's and it's what they're paid for,
you know. And so I think if you can, as
long as you can be at peace with the fact
that maybe the work that is, you know, maybe most
resonant for an audience is not your most recent work
for any number of reasons. Some of it's just timing,
(39:57):
some of it's just is marketing and and people just
hearing it. But also a lot of a lot of
artists are part of a genre or part of an
era so so cemented to that some are so cemented
to their own catalog because they had such success at
(40:18):
a period of time that it just is lightning in
a bottle and it is that period of time, and
so it's there are very few artists that escape it,
you know. I mean, Dylan doesn't escape, but the Stones
don't escape it. McCartney doesn't escape it, you know, I mean,
they're all they're all rare acts that you know. I
(40:42):
mean you mentioned Billy Joel. He didn't escape it. John
didn't escape it. But they had such a volume of
wonderful songs that resonated and and and those are exceptions,
you know, where they they had maybe you know, fifty
years of real huge, hugely creative period of time where
(41:07):
they were really tapped into something special. And and in
those cases, you know, they're at least their catalog is
straddles a couple, a couple eras you know. And uh,
and so they have they have a dynamic, more dynamic show,
I should say, you know. And but look, I think
(41:29):
everyone that tours is grateful for the people that come.
It's you know, I feel it's a gift. It's that
is two sided, you know, in the sense that I
get to enjoy the company of the audience and take
them on this musical adventure. And and so to me
(41:56):
it's a gift to have that privilege. And then hopefully
they feel that spirit of generosity and joy that I
have by doing what I love. And I think that's
the infectious part of it.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Yeah, and it's just so inspiring to see not just
yourself with like legacy artists still creating, You're still getting
out there, you're mixing it in and still growing and
challenging yourselves. I think that's really important to do over
all this time now this new album. How long did
it take to record total when you went out to
(42:30):
LA nine days?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
You hear about people who toil over you know Steely
Dana was watching some documentary about them, how long it
took to do.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
No one that's a budget like that. I mean maybe
maybe a few people, but very few people have a
budget like that. There are some people that have amazing
home studios. Generally with home studios, people just toil for
too long and they overshoot the mark if it and
(43:05):
so like being in an in a great recording studio
where you have a lot of external input the way
they did the way that a lot of you know,
Bowie albums. You know, he came in without anything and
and you know wrote in the studio. You know, I've
always dreamt that that that I would be able to,
(43:27):
you know, do that. We've even if it was just
for a song. Just like go like, okay, just do
whatevery whatever you can think of. You know, I want,
you know, more digital dues. You know, I need I
need twenty Mandolins for this now I'm just joking, but like, uh,
not to overproduce it, but to be able to have
(43:48):
the time to actually really listen and re listen. It's
less about playing and more about like getting in side
of a piece of music and and figuring out maybe
how to make it simpler than more complicated, like I
(44:11):
was talking about earlier.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I mean it brings me to Peter Gabriel who just
you know, he will say, no, I'm just doing really
the bulk of this is my new stuff and puts
it out there and it's just amazing. But gosh, somebody
who can toil forever on something, right, His volume is amazing,
His output is incredible. But yeah, it takes a while.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah, oh yeah. And you know, there are some artists
who are I think privileged in the sense that they
built a career out of being both you know, truly
brilliant unexl like you don't really know what to expect,
(45:00):
and that becomes like in you know, my generation, I think,
you know, I think of Beck or I think of
like Fiona Apple, or I think of like of a
number of artists who have a very set sound, so
you kind of know, you know what their voice is,
but you don't know what where it's going to go.
(45:21):
And if they say I'm just doing this new album
or this new concept for the tour, you would still
go because you want to see what their concept is
because they've they work with such interesting people, They collaborate
with such great musicians and producers and engineers, and you
kind of want to see and hear where where their
(45:42):
heads were at. And you know, there's not a lot
of artists like that, you know. I think Elvis Costello
was like that, Tom Waits was like that, and you know,
but it's but they but they're older now and it's
and it's different, you know. And I think they had
careers for most of their career that they could pick
(46:04):
and choose, because it at times, maybe it was a
cult following. At times they might have had a popular
audience that was a little bit bigger, but it was
always pretty much based on their artistic approach, you know,
more than more than just a song or a sound.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, that is incredibly true.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, it's just it's it's really great, and it's great
you're getting out there and you know, the crowds are
coming in and you have a good connection with the
audience for as long as you've been performing live and
this is going back to the San Diego days.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, Well, best wishes on this tour, stay safe on
this tour, and we hope to see you soon.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
All right, Thanks Bob, take care, take care.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
And thank you so much for stopping by. It has
just been so fun. I love speaking with AJ just
a multi talented musician, gifted songwriter.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Thank you so much, See you next time.
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