Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome ladies, and no connor I'm doing. I wrote down
an intro. I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You go ahead.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
No, I was going to say, welcome ladies and gentlemen
to a very big episode. We're talking about a very
very big movie, especially if you're in the horror community.
We're talking about Freddie versus Jason, although I think the
real Freddie versus Jason is going to be witch of
these bastards finally makes a movie again, or a TV
(00:47):
show or a Peacock original or a straight to v
D something anything. Anyway, I think the last time Freddie
and Jason, you know, we're in the movies, it was
the remake the two remakes, right, two thousand and nine
and twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, they've been in limbo ever since.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Would They were both very profitable films.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Right, yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I mean neither one of them got reviewed very well,
much more so the Night Run elm Street one, but
they were both very successful.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
In fact, you could. I don't have the facts in
front of me.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I want to say the Friday the thirteenth one might
have grossed the most of any of them, maybe except
for Freddy Versus Jason.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
But it's actually correct. Yeah, yeah, it's it's number. So
this is, uh, we're talking Freddy versus Jason today. That
is the highest grossing film in the Friday franchise and
the second highest grossing in Nightmare. I don't have the
numbers of which one is above it, unfortunately, but I
wouldn't be surprised if it was. It could be Nightmare
four as well.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I hear that that's the highest grossing, which is weird
to me that that still clears Freddy Versus Jason. Not
sure what was going on in nineteen eighty eight that
drove everybody to the to the MTV.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
YEP, that was the MTV Freddy era.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
And I can tell you as a kid that that
was I think that was my first Friday movie. I
I'm not as positive as I am with Child's Play
three that that was the beginning for me. But the
flashy colors and the neon and the soundtrack and the
attitude of that movie at absolutely MTV generation. Like at
that point Freddy was pop culture, like you know, everybody's favorite,
(02:26):
everybody who was correct favorite? But yeah, that was that
was a big one. So surprising that we don't have
whatever they finally do decide to get off their ass
and make a new one. I think it's going to
clear that easily. But yeah, interesting that we're still the
fourth ones holding the legacy.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
And I think so. I know, Friday the thirteenth is
dead right now because of legal issues for the most part.
And then there's all that trouble going on with the
It's the A twenty four show, right, the Crystal Lake Show.
They just had their showrunner leave, so don't legit. Don't know.
(03:05):
One weekend, expect to see Jason Voorhe's back in theaters.
But I don't get what's the deal with the Namara
Elmstreet what the hold up is there? After Halloween twenty eighteen,
it just felt like this was the time to bring
back those characters, except the two most popular. I mean
they for a while, Freddie for sure and I think
(03:26):
Jason too, to a lesser extent, were the most popular
slasher icons, more popular than Michael, you know, in the
late eighties, I think they were.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
They had reached that status, yeah for sure. And you know,
Michael may have overtaken him here recently because he's been
kind of steadily working.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
A little bit more than the other two.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
But yeah, I'm right there with you, Like we got
all that legal bullshit that gives you somewhat of a
poor explanation of why nobody wants to make money on
Jason right now apparently, but Breddy really puzzles me. And
all we can do is speculate, because nobody who has
the rights or is involved with it says anything. I
think right now, the rights are at the Craven estate,
(04:06):
and I don't know if it's just because Wes is gone,
they're ultra protective of it and only the best of
the best of the best script is even going to
be tolerated by them, or if they're just waiting for
the right size pile of money.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I mean, I really don't know.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
But I mean, for the last number of years, we've
heard like Jason Blum wants Freddy like nothing else.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I'm sure A twenty.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Four and everybody else would probably pull a dump truck
of money up. I mean, anybody that is smart is
gonna want to grab a hold of that. It just
seems like he's not forsabled the moment, or there's a
lot of conversations happening that strangely none of them have leaked,
which I don't think we live in that era anymore.
So it's just it's very puzzling as a Freddie fan.
Just radio silence for well over a decade at this point.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, because Leatherface has had what three movies, you know,
since the two thousand and nine ten remakes, Chucky's had
a remake, and he has his own ongoing series. They're
pimping out all of these guys except Freddy and Jason,
even though I mean, you see it in this movie.
I mean it's Freddy versus Jason, because those are the
(05:17):
two kind of titans of terror. Those are the two
guys that are gonna deliver your your box office juggernaut.
So that's a big reason why we picked this Freddy
Versus Jason to talk about. But it's also because we've
talked about half of the Halloween movies on this channel.
We've we've defended or squabbled over half of them. And
(05:37):
we're gonna definitely be talking about another Halloween movie later
this year because it is the fifteenth anniversary of everybody's
favorite Rob's zombie movie. But yeah, we've only talked about
We've only talked about I think one Friday, the thirteenth movie, right.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Uh, yeah, new Blood. We talked about new Blood very
early on in the history of this show.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Movie one episode ever.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, I would buy that very early on. Please don't
listen to those. It's not a great reflection of who
we are or what we do, but but it was.
It was a lot of fun to talk about. I mean,
the you know, we just got the chance to talk
about leather Face of Texas Chainsaw Massacre three on the channel.
You know, we kind of discussed our hierarchy of these characters,
and and you know, Jason Vorhees is a character that
(06:31):
I feel like, I feel like it doesn't he doesn't
get as much love as Michael, not only because of
these new movies, but also because the the movies themselves
are sort of like an enemy to television. It's they're
really hard to show. If they're gonna show them, you
got to put them on a time slot that's not
going to be fantastic. I mean, they've been fitting these
Halloween films on AMC since they're early two thousands. That's
(06:52):
my first exposure to the franchise. So many other people's Nightmare,
you know, doesn't get a lot of television exposure either,
and so yeah, we're in this really awkward limbo spot.
We have not talked about a single Nightmare on Elm
Street film on the channel yet. So this is Freddy's
first foray into the Not That Bad world and Jason's second.
(07:13):
I'm interested on this conversation, Cody. I know that you
are a big Nightmare on Elm Street guy, Freddy fanatic.
You're you're You're a big one. I'm curious for you.
You know, no, no calling you old here, but Gab
and I are definitely yansh.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And way to start off a question could not have
no insult.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
No.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
What I'm getting at here is when this movie came
out in two thousand and three, Gabe and I were
little tykes, could not go to the theaters and see
this type of thing as somebody who by this time
presumably already had some sort of fandom or connection to
either one or both of these characters. For you, kind
of what was the high around this movie if any,
and kind of what has been your relationship with it
(08:03):
since it came out?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So it was two thousand and three, so I was thirteen,
and I had already been a Freddie fanatic since like
age four. Jason I really didn't have any experience with
up to that point. I didn't really dive into the
fright of the thirteenth films actually until after I started
my YouTube channel, if you can believe that, because the
few little snippets of Jason movies that I've seen, I
(08:25):
just never really cared for, with the exception of Jason X,
which is a weird answer, because I was just the right.
I was the right age four and I think I
was ten when that movie came out. Then it was
just it's a great little B movie shlock. But nonetheless,
this is a movie that my dad had told me
was like rumored or they were working on for a
long time, because it was I mean for a decade,
(08:46):
I think there was different versions. And then, of course
and Jason Goes to Hell. You had the little teaser
that amounted to nothing for quite a while, and so
I just remember it was always in the back of
my head, like one day we're going to get this
maybe I don't know. And then I remember, like it
was yesterday, I was sitting in I was in seventh
grade at the time. I was sitting in my language
(09:07):
arts class and we weren't doing anything, and so I
was always kind of slick where if I was I
would ask to go on the computer to work on
something and I would just look up movie shit.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And so I was sitting there and the thought popped
into my head to look up Freddy versus Jason to
see what was going on with it, if anything, and
so I just randomly typed in www dot Freddy versus
Jason dot com. This is back in the day when
movies actually had websites and they would have like promotional
stills and stuff good days and a fucking site came
up and I was like, what is this? And this
(09:38):
is back in the day with dial up where you
the homepage takes like five minutes to lay, so get
to slow reveal and I'm like, this looks legit, And
so it was.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
It was the cover, like the cover that you.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
See sometimes where it's kind of like their silhouette and
it's like a white, foggy background and they were standing
next to each other. That was the homepage, and then
it had like synopsis trailer or something, and I was like,
is this real? And then I remember I clicked the
trailer and then that was another fifteen minutes to load
that three minute long thing, and I remember.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I watched I was so like is this real? Freaking
out about it?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Like I kept clicking play, and then it would play
the three seconds that it had loaded, and then it
would go back, and then I would play the four seconds,
and then I would play the seven seconds, and like
whatever I could get the little revealed, and I was like,
this is Real's that's Robert Angland.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
This shit is real.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
And I remember I was like freaking out where I'm like,
I almost feel like I need to feign being sick
so I can go home and tell my dad this
thing is happening.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And so at that point I was just like, Wow,
we're getting this.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And so I'm not exaggerating when I tell you from
that day to the moment that I walked into theater,
I was obsessed with this thing. It's the only movie
I can think of where I was that loser on
the internet trying to find any leak, any spoiler, any
little detail because I'm so anti that. Yeah, but everything
that was even possibly legit about this thing, I was
(10:57):
sniffing it out on the Internet. And so to the
point that my dad was starting to get annoyed with me.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Where He's just like, we're gonna see the movie.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Shut the fuck up about it. I don't care anymore.
I don't want to hear about it. And so we
ended up going and it was like a sporting event.
I mean like you had the Freddie fans on one
side that Jason fans on the other side, and so
we went to go see it. I absolutely loved it
as a thirteen year old. As I've gotten older, there
are certain issues with it, for sure, but I still
love the movie. I think that, you know, there's legit
(11:28):
issues to be had with it, But for me, I
can't imagine a better version of this movie.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
I just can't.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Freddie and Jason, both of their tones, both of their
you know, their attitudes together and the logic of putting
them together, and how do you write a script that
makes sense to put them together. I think they did
a damn good job with it. There's a lot of
really good kills. You get a lot of good TNA
like every little thing, like every little surface value schlocky
thing you want out of either of these franchises. I
feel like they found a way to get it in there.
(11:57):
And even for a movie where Jason gets the lion
share of the kills. Freddy also gets all the best
one liners and all the best moments, and so it
felt balanced to me. And even the way that they
leave it off with a little wink to always make
everybody argue for the next you know, twenty years about
who won was very clever.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So yeah, I would very would you have soured on
this movie if if Jason had been the unambiguous victor,
being the Freddie fanatic that that.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
You were, No, I would be the guy who sitting
here telling you like, they're gonna have a rematch eventually,
don't worry.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Like Robert as full of shit.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
He's he's they're coming back at some point and then
he's going to reclaim the throne.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Rematches coming, guys, Rematch is coming. It's it's it's it's
an interesting one, right, you're taking two characters. It's not
the first time that it was. It was thought up either,
of course. You know, you heard the rumors of you know,
a potential Michael Myers and Pinhead movie at one point.
Even this movie is that never real?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
That never sounded real.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I've real people in the industry have talked about it.
It was never it was never it never went past
I guess like initial stages. It was never it was
just some talks, let's maybe put this thing together, but
it was it never really advanced past that from what
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
But with Freddy Versus Jason, the people in charge had
been trying to make this happen since the New Blood Right.
They were gonna do Freddy versus Jason for the you know,
Seventh Friday the thirteenth movie. Then whatever the issue was,
(13:29):
they couldn't make it happen, so they said, well, let's
do Jason versus Carried. You know, there's a ton of both,
like fan written scripts and unused drafts of this floating
around the internet. I've never read a full one, but
some of the ideas I've seen involve Freddie being a
camp counselor at Camp Crystal Lake and molesting Jason as
(13:53):
a kid.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I guess they was just fun.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, jack yrol Haley in that one. It took them
well decades before they found something that worked. And to
Cody's point, not only does it work, it That's my
favorite thing about this movie actually, is the way they
not only put these two characters against each other, but
the way they combine the lores, the way they expand
(14:18):
on the individual lores. I mean, this is not only
a good you know, little Freddy versus Jason, you know,
fight compilation, although the fights are a highlight for me
for sure, but they're two damn good you know, it's
a good Nightmare ONLM Street movie and it's a it's
a less good but still you know, very very serviceable
(14:38):
Friday the thirteenth movie, which is probably why the writers
of this went on to to write the Friday remake.
So yeah, as adjacent fanatic myself and as a more
casual Freddy fan, it works on both those levels. So
why don't more horror fans celebrate it? Why is it?
(15:02):
Why is it disliked enough to be on our show?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah? I don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
There's the common complaints that I hear against it seem
like they're the same batch of issues that everybody brings up,
so enough people believe in it where it must be
a legit issue to be considered, but they none of
them really makes sense to me. One of the big
ones that I that I do someone understand that a
lot of people have an issue with this film is
that it was not Kane Hotter That's the main thing
(15:31):
that I always hear that people are like, a movie's okay,
but it should have been Kane Hotter because the movie,
very much in and of itself, is kind of like
this cap off to a legacy. You know, this was
the last time we saw Robert England. It was kind
of his little swan song where he gets to go
back and be dark but also gets to to me,
it's the best Freddie humor outside of Dream Warriors, So
(15:51):
he kind of got to rectify that and kind of
give us the best of both worlds once again. But
they wanted to have a larger Jason, so we got
Ken Kurzinger instead of the guy that most people associate
with needing a you know, uh, a legacy you want
to call it, yeah, and uh And it doesn't completely
make sense to me, But I don't know what the
movie would look like with Caine Hodder next to him, Like,
(16:13):
do you you want to have this hulking guy next
to the small wise cracker if they're you know, I
think they're both about the same fight. So maybe visually
they would have been right. Maybe in an alternate universe
we would all be like Caine Hotter is great, but
it looks weird. Uh, But that's the big thing that
I hear.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
The other thing that I always hear is that.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
The over the top nature of the fights, like Freddie
being really souped up to even make it make sense,
which I guess, but when you're talking about two supernatural characters, like,
to me, my brain doesn't really go with logic in
those scenes, like this is just for fun. Like, yes,
if you're gonna have a guy that's this big, who's
a walking zombie who can rip people in half against
(16:58):
a guy who is typically only powerful in the dream
world and now he's in the real world in your.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Movie would be three minutes long.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
But to me, it's fun to see Robert England doing
all these like WWE moves.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And things like that. Like, to me, that's kind of
the charm of the movie.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
So I don't know some of the things about it,
like that where I'm just like, I don't know if
you really wanted this movie, Like your opinion's valid, but
like you walk into a Freddy versus Jason film, to me,
I expect silliness. I expect ridiculousness. The concept in and
of itself is ridiculous. But that's why I'm here.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, Now with Freddie, I did note that the same
Freddy who couldn't fight Nancy Thompson in the first movie
when he was outside the dream world. Now he's like
doing some karate. Now he's doing some cam foo. Actually
it reminded me, and this is not this does not
sound like a compliment, but I don't mean it in
(17:51):
a nasty way. Reminded me of Yoda in the Star
Wars prequels, the way he would flip around and fight
Christopher Lee with his lightsaber. I'm not a guy who's
inclined to take these movies very seriously. I mean, I
I'm a fan, and I I want to. I think
there's a way you can take you know, the kind
of characters, the what they mean to people seriously but
(18:14):
still have fun as long as there's still that balance.
And I think unlike like the later Nightmare sequels, you know,
it's it's like as silly or as goofy as the
movie can be a times it's it then like comes
back to being very dark, very grizzly. Rob Ringland I
think is at his like kind of most well balanced
(18:37):
here since since Stream Warriors. Like yeah, he does some
goofy stuff. He knocks around Jason like a pinball machine,
which is one moment that went a little too far
from me. But then that scene where he kills Brendan Fletcher,
I mean, that's a that's a scene I would put
up against you know, uh, dark, dark Freddie, scary Freddy.
(18:57):
I would put that up against the best of of
that character, the best of that franchise.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I mean the other commonly heard complaints really are just
things you probably would say with any slasher film.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
They're like, well, the acting is not the best, or
some of the writings a little here valid.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
But again it's like, I don't know, I feel like
the crowd that this movie was meant for, I think
it delivered about the best version you can expect from it.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I can't I can't fathom a more fun version of
the movie.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
So I'm just I'm as grateful, as obsessed as I
was at at thirteen years old that the movie delivered
for me and still continues to. But I don't know,
maybe when people are in the mood for a Freddie
or adjacent film, they're in the mood for more of
the straightforward, just slasher, you know, the stalking teens having
(19:52):
a final girl. Maybe they just like that formula. And
for as for as fun of the novelty of this
movie is, maybe for a lot of people that don't
care so much for it, they're just never really in
the mood for this genre mash up schlockfest. They want
kind of the quintessential Freddie or the quintessential Jason.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Possibly.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
No, I'll say that kind of surprises me just a
little bit because much like the intro to this movie,
this this film as a whole is kind of like
a highlight reel for the characters. I mean, like, can
we start out, we get to know Freddy a little bit,
we see his kind of finest moments throughout the years
and all the films that he's been in, and then
of course with Jason, we kind of get to see
what his wholem is right away with that initial scene
of the I mean, they don't waste any time in
(20:33):
you know, getting the tits out in this movie, which
you know, not that I'm complaining too much about that,
but the movie as a whole, it feels like from
minute one, we're gonna show you the best of these
characters have to offer in the opinions of a lot
of people. I think I was really surprised going to Letterbox, because,
you know, Gabe brought this up as a potential for this,
(20:54):
for this, you know, for this crossover here, and I
was like, okay, well, you know, is it that hated?
You know, and I looked at it, I'm thinking maybe
two point nine. You know, I could see it being
a two point eight, But a two point seven feels
I mean, that just feels even for the hate that
this movie got, the mixed reviews, especially the time that
it came out, a two point seven seemed considerably low,
(21:17):
you know, as I'm looking through it, especially for a
movie that made one hundred and sixteen and a half
million dollars at the box office, it's just surprising.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I don't know, there's a lot that surprise me about this,
but the reaction that this movie still gets. Maybe at
the time, you know, you got to manage your expectations
if it wasn't exactly what you wanted, I get it.
But for fans of these two characters, you know, I
don't see how this isn't a yearly watch for so
many more people, how it has.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Done to you. I'm telling you the purists do not
like this movie, especially the Jason Purists. And I know
because I'm in one of them. I'm in the Secret Meetings.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh and the.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
So Ken Kurdzinger is not my favorite Jason. I'll just
put it like that. He's better than I remembered on
this most recent rewatch. I actually really like the close ups.
They always get up his eyes, if that's if that's
him or another actor. It's very evocative and really hearkens
back to what I think Jason really is, is that
(22:22):
he's a classic movie monster, and that's something you would
see in like a Universal Monsters movie or a Hammer
horror movie. You know this, like this hulking monster with
this one eye kind of poking on. That's when you
get this kind of peer into like the interior, which
some people I'm sure don't even like that. I think
(22:42):
they would just want him to be a hulking monster.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
And that be the end of it.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
In fact, I was surprised at how much this really
how much this shows us of stuff that I would
have wanted to see more. In both franchises, we get
to see Jason at Camp Crystal Lake. It's a dream
but it's probably a very accurate snapshot of what his
life was like. There we get to see a Freddy,
(23:10):
a pre burned Freddy. Did any of the other Nightmare
movies ever show a pre a pre Freddy Freddy?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Freddy's Dead, but we don't talk about that one.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Didn't Dream Child kind of do it? Kind of he
was out of makeup at the very least. I don't
know if he was necessarily.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I think he played one of the hundred psychopaths or whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
No, they show things about his origin, about his his
his creation, if you will. But okay, yeah, Freddy's Dead.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I did forget about that as you should.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, Cody's Cody's hatred for that film is well documented
spoiler alert.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
When that episode comes up, Ye, yes, it is that bad.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, yeah, I don't hopefully it won't. You know, I'm
not not looking forward to revisiting that one.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
But you know, you never know.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Usually, you know, you see, you see two sides of
it that this is a good example, you know, where
there are people who this is their favorite of either
of those characters, and you see that a lot with
movies that are divisive, where you know, even Rob Zombie's
Halloween two, which we brought up a little bit earlier,
that is some people's favorite version of the Michael Myers character.
It's some people's favorite movie in the entire franchise.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I know, because I'm one of them, but I'm the
other one of the two people, the other one.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
But with this movie, what I what I think is
what I think is kind of cool, is that they
could have easily just said, we don't care about building
any kind of plot, we don't care about giving any
reason for these characters being together. We're just gonna make
it happen. I like that they actually took some care,
(24:57):
and I like that they did it pretty early in
the movie. You know, maybe some people could call it cheesy,
the way that they sort of introduced this concept of,
you know, Freddy kind of digging through the pits of
hell to find somebody to be act as a conduit
to spread fear so he could come back in people's dreams,
make them remember. But you know, hearing early versions of
what this this could have been, you know, where both
(25:20):
of them are dead and they have to the most
famous one I believe Adam Marcus brought it up, was
that they had to fight their way out of hell. Yeah, yeah,
they had to. They had to fight their way out
of hell by going back to Earth and killing, and
whoever killed the most people got their chance to to
live once again. I gotta say, uh, there are people
(25:41):
who have who have said that they shouldn't have changed
the thing. I can't agree with that. I think you
could not have asked for any more than what they did.
Now there's there's parts of this that maybe you could
ask for a little bit more thought. Uh you know,
I'll get into my thoughts about the whole emphasis on
fire and water a little bit later, but just at
this point in the movie, you know where we've just
(26:02):
been introduced these two characters. So if you've never seen
a Friday or a Nightmare movie before, you're mostly caught up,
you know the gist of who these two characters are
and what they're capable of. We immediately get a title
card that has heavy metal music and blood flying everywhere,
so it sets the tone for the movie just getting past.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Which we didn't even mention this, but you know, Ronnie,
you was the guy they got to direct this. I
think that's a surprising choice in hindsight. I know I'm
a big fan of Brad and Chucky, and I know
Cody's a big fan of Brad and Chucky. Connor is
the Chucky skeptics. I don't know how you feel about
that movie.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Not a fan, not a fan.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
That was Yeah, that was his big that was his
big breakthrough. And then he gets tapped to make the
the Avengers of slasher movies, even though he didn't have
the most prolific body of work and in the horror realm.
You know, I'm thinking back of other directors who might
have been in the conversation. Well, I can tell you
too that definitely were. One was Peter Jackson, and he
(27:08):
was busy making a little movie called Lord of the Rings.
By a little movie, I mean three of the longest
movies ever made.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
You imagine an alternate universe where he bails on Lord
of the Rings because he wants to make Freddy versus.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I want I want to live there.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I think that's king. That's that's right there.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah you want me to I'm out.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
No, Because he tried to make a Nightmare on ELM
Street movie at some point, I mean much earlier in
his career.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
But you know he it was a version of Freddy's dead. Yeah,
I wish that his version, just I only know the
concept of it. His version sounds infinitely better. It's where
Freddy has lost all of his power because nobody fears
him anymore, and the kids actually start going into their
night mayors to fuck with Freddy because he's just such
(28:03):
a joke. And then he ends up he ends up
killing one of the kids, which sparks the fear again,
and I want to I want to see that kind of.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Serves as a template in a way, just with that
whole powerless Freddy needs to start spreading fear again. Obviously
very different execution, but just just cool to see that
connective tissue. But then, yeah, do you know who the
other big name tapped to We'll not not tap to
direct and talks to direct this at the time, I don't.
(28:33):
He's the best director on the face of the earth, Connor.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
You should know Don Carpenter.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Close second, Rob Zombie, Rob Zombie.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Wow, I actually wasn't aware of that. I I'm gonna
say this. I'm happy he didn't. This is like the
first time I've ever heard him attached to something that
I'm like, no, like, I you know, I've always heard
that you know, people have been really that he has
wanted to make a Texas chainsaw movie, and that people
have wanted him to make one. I get that. Of course,
the broad Street Bullies movie. I would have loved to
(29:06):
see him get an opportunity to do. I'm very glad
that this was not an early early staying on his
career because this would have.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Been his first movie. This would have been his first movie.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
And tell you, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I mean, it's.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Come here, Mama's bull You come here, motherfucker.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I don't know. I'm glad we live in the timeline
we do now Wearehouse one thousand corpses. It's his first movie. Yeah,
he was attached to do a lot of things that
I think it's best that he stayed away from it.
He did not need to be making a crow movie.
I don't know if you guys have heard details about that.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
No, no, I know he was supposed to do the Blob.
That's the only one that I know of that fell through,
and that I'm like, what does that look like?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
It looks like Sherry Moon Zombie playing I've seen the
artwork Sherry Moon Zombie playing a huge concert in front
of the Blob, like it's like becomes this kind of
like a place where the teens go to rave. They
go to like rave by the Blob. Don't know how
that would have worked in execution, but the quote sequel
(30:18):
script I read it if you think he's a bad writer, now,
that was like one of the first things he ever wrote,
so you can you can imagine. But getting back to
this film directed by Ronnie You, his style is like here,
it's present if you're a fan of Right of Chucky,
(30:38):
like the heavy metal soundtrack. I think he has a
really good sense of humor in a really slick sense
of direction.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
And I think that's what got in the job, was
that balance of the horror and the humor, because to me,
I've heard some people argue that Seed of Chucky isn't
really that far moved from Bride.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I don't know what movie those people watch.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
To me, Bride of Chucky is still very dark and
serious and has an edge to it while being very
self aware and funny, but doesn't really devolve into like harody,
and I think that's the tone they wanted for this.
They're like, we can't take ourselves too seriously.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
We have to have some fun.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And this guy seems to have a lot of fun,
so that would be my assumption, and why despite only
making one, you know, premiere slasher movie that they probably
hide him.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And seeing the BTS food, she was very passionate about this.
He wanted to end this movie with a kind of
hand from Hell coming out of Camp Crystal Lake to snatch,
basically the ending of Jason Goes to Hell, just on
this massive, massive scale. And his you know, he's reciting
this next to his producer, I guess, and his producer's
(31:41):
just sweating bullets, like, how are we going to pay
for that? You know how much we have to pay?
Robert England. Let's talk about Robert England. His last appearance
is Freddy Krueger Cody. Are you happy? Are you satisfied
with this as his last appearance or do you wish
he could have done another? Or is this like a
good Swan song.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I'm very satisfied. I'm one of those rare Freddie fans
that I don't want another Rott Robert England Freddy movie.
I think that that time has passed long past. To me,
this movie gives you the best of both worlds. As
I was saying earlier, like Freddy's a little darker, a
little scarier, like the opening where it's focused on his eyes.
(32:20):
He's very demonic, and he's got the sharp teeth, and
the makeup looks really good, and the one liners are
really good. Like the one liners haven't been good since three,
A couple of good ones in four. They haven't aged
so well for me. But you know, Robert England is
known more so for the goofy Freddy than he is
the serious Freddy of the first couple of films. And
(32:40):
to me, this was his last chance. I mean, well,
you had a new Nightmare that was ultra serious and
then this was his last chance to kind of give
that version in a way that kind of pleased most
people and didn't seem like a cartoon him kicking the
shit out of Jason and you know, the wink at
the end and everything like. To me, that's just a
perfect little footnote on his career as Freddie. And as
(33:01):
much as people want it, and if there's enough money,
I would not be surprised if it does become a
reality where we get you know, Hea, they lang in
a camp and Robert England back and forty years later
Freddie comes back for Nancy and just I hear that
and I want to vomit. I'm like, that doesn't sound
any bit of unique or interesting or creative after so
(33:22):
many movies have done that. Like, so as much as
I love Robert Anglelan, I love Hea, they lang in
the camp and I would absolutely be their day one,
regardless of what I say.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I just I want to see a fresh take on it.
I want to see an actor who is mostly unknown
or somewhat unknown.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I don't want to see an A lister in the
makeup and go back to basics and tell a really
good story and make Freddy scary again and set it
up where you can do three, four more of them
if you want to. If Robert England comes back, you're
just gonna get one more and then what happened?
Speaker 2 (33:55):
People are gonna be like, one more, Robert, come on,
one more? That was awesome, And no, there's no way
that's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
And so I just don't think that there's any thing
to be gained by barking up that tree again.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, you know, there's an issue that I see kind
of nowadays. It's not just in film, it's in so
many industries where there's this such heavy reliance on like
the old guys. You know, when this movie came out
in two thousand and three, I had read through some
posts and some articles about it talking about how these
old guys were coming back to do the movies again.
And you know, not that it had been, you know,
(34:29):
so long since the film had come out at that point,
but if they were saying it back then, they should
be saying it now and it should be echoed. And
I think the franchises relying whether it's an old character
or or an old actor or both coming into these roles.
I remember being kind of afraid when I heard that
(34:49):
Nick Castle was coming back for the new Halloween movies.
Obviously we got James J. Courtney, who kind of took
over the reins for the most part. But you know,
it's concerning to me that people, and even not so
much with those actors. You know, I've heard calls for
actors like Kevin Bacon to play Freddie in an upcoming movie,
and I think I'm really with you here. I think
the foundation of the fact that what made these original
(35:12):
films so special is that they were young filmmakers, young actors,
unknowns in some cases, who were trying to prove themselves.
You've put people in a position that they have to
try to prove themselves. They're going to try to do it,
and I think Ronnie you was kind of in a
position to do that here, and I think somebody should
be put in that position if they're going to make
another Nightmare on elm Street. Now and Friday, both of them,
(35:34):
I think should have, you know, pretty much a clean
slate young young filmmakers who need to do something in
the industry.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I know, I don't mind the idea of Freddie being
a role for a name actor to make their own.
I also don't mind the unknown approach. I thought Jackie
Earle Haley was pretty brilliant casting when you go back
and think about where he was by the time that
remake came out.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I liked that movie, so I I'm probably the only
one in the colleague.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Does I think he's the best part about it.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
I mean, if I say that all the time, I
think that people unfairly blame him for it, And I'm like,
you used to thank him for what does work in
that movie because it's all him. Yep, you know, if
he had a better script and better makeup, I don't
think people nowadays would even be questioning if anybody could
play Freddy again, because I think he did a pretty
damn good job with not very much, you.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Know, And we've talked about roles that are supposedly owned
by one actor and then another actor comes out to
take it, and you know, challenges that at least, you know,
we talked about the Child's Play remake. I wasn't as
big on Mark Hamill as Chucky.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I was.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I acknowledged him. I wasn't like upset about it. But
you know, Brad Store, it's not like any kind of
competition to Brad Doriff. I think you were a bigger fan,
if I remember right, condor of Mark Hamill.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, I liked him a lot. Well, I see,
But that's the thing. I didn't grow up liking Chucky.
You know, most people get in down the Chucky train
when they're young. I didn't by the time I was
watching them, you know, I just thought they were dumb,
and I haven't been able to shake it fully. I
you know, you know me, You know that I wasn't
a big fan. You talk me into like in three
and three is my second favorite, but my favorite is
(37:15):
the remake, and that kind of shows you you know
where I stand on the franchise. But but yeah, you know,
there have been attempts, you know, to make a character
your own. Would would I mean, would we say that
maybe the the best version of that has been Tyler
Mayne is Michael Myers or maybe the New hell Raiser.
I've heard that Pinhead in the New hell Raiser is
(37:35):
pretty solid.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Pinhead is different because it's character speaks well.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yeah, And that's the ones that are the most difficult,
I think, like with not the diminish what it takes
to deliver a good version of Michael.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Or a good version of Jason.
Speaker 4 (37:49):
Absolutely it's very easy, or it's much easier to put
somebody in a mask and makeup and have them do
a physical performance that stands out versus somebody that has
to take on the person and the charisma and the
comedic timing of a Robert England or a Brad Dorif because.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It's just such a tall order.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
If you don't get one of the three or four
things that makes that performance right automatically, it pales in comparison.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
And so that's the ones.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Ironically, my two favorites that are ones that everybody says,
can't touch them, like once Robert Anglin and Brad Dorif
were out characters dead and it would be difficult. I
wouldn't want the job. But I think, uh, I think
the right actor, with the right script that's passionate for
the character could very easily do a version of Freddy
(38:36):
that instantly changes a lot of our minds and makes
us go ooh, okay, cool, I'm on board.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I think I think you can even see that with
Jack Earl Haley in the in what he's allowed to
do in that remake. Chucky for me is still a
different story. The new The new Pinhead was good. I
forget that.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Actress's name, Jamie Clinton.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah yeah, and that's a character that had been used
and abused and.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
To say it was just fucking lease.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
And you know, we might be talking about hell Raiser
revelations pretty soon, which is not an example of what
we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
I would like to announce my retirement from not that Bad.
Speaker 4 (39:19):
It's funny though, revelations like on equality and a production standpoint, Yes,
it's garbage and it's insulting, like it's there's the common
meme where it shows Pinhead, then it shows the pinned
from there and.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
It says great value in the quarter.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
But uh, but narratively, Revelations doesn't quite get the it's
due because that is the most hell raiser movie since
the first one in my opinion. Like the themes and
the things that they go for and somebody wearing somebody
else's skin, and that's that's the most hearkening back to
what the movies were originally were.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
So that that's it. That's that's not as bad of
a movie, I think as people make it out to be.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
But getting back to Freddy versus Jason, I think we've
been circling around a big thing that people at least
have mixed feelings on, which are you know, our cast
of characters are cast of teenagers. I've seen a lot
of actually varied emotions around them. Let's start with the
one that I think everybody agrees is pretty good. I
certainly do. Our final girl, Monica Keina.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
She always liked her yea, and she liked her fine. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
And she delivers one of the more iconic quotes from
this movie, right, welcome to my world, bitch. That's so
iconic that the remake ripped that off. In one of
its most moms, and even.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
As a defender of that movie, there are several moments
that are just absolutely shameful. Uh, from the c G
I to to that moment. Yeah, can't defend it. Can't
defend that.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Movie's worst moments to me are or when it harkens
back to the other Nightmare movies, which is a lot
getting back to our cast. Here, we have Monica Keina,
and I'm gonna defend Kelly Rowland, Okay, And it's not
just because I'm a Houstonian and I'm loyal to all
Destiny's Child's members. It's only that's only part of the
(41:12):
reason I think she's fine.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Strange, I've always liked her too.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
I think that it's kind of uh, it's kind of
a recurring thing in horror slashers more specifically, where you
have music artists who comes in as an actor and
it's almost always a bad thing.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Very few exceptions, like Ell Cool jb in one that.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
I thought was always pretty good. But yeah, she I
altays thought it was funny. She's got good back and
forth with everybody. She's got a couple of standout scenes.
I know there's people out there that passionately hate the
the how sweet dark meat line.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I thought that's fucking hilarious. Personally, Uh, this is our least.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Politically correct Freddy. I thought that was so interesting, Like
he was the most pointedly and.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Like, like Freddie's gonna give a shit about the woke crowd. Yeah,
exactly before children. But he tried to bring that, like,
you know, when we were in this era where suddenly
we're going to cancel twenty year old movies, they were like, oh.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Right, we're gonna tolerate this.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Say on this movie.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
Exactly what you said. I'm like, he kills children. I
think he can mouth off a little bit. But nonetheless,
Kelly Roland I always thought was very fun in this movie.
I didn't expect her to be, maybe unfairly just because
of the way that I said music artists tend to
deliver and slasher movies.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
But I always thought she was fun. So I don't
get much issues with her either. Give me your nose
that yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Oh yeah, she wasn't you know what. Like I feel
like I remembered her being so bad in this that
we revisited. We watched Resurrection for this channel as well
for this.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
For this Cunner's idea not mine.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yes, it was my idea because I do enjoy parts
of that movie, and there are things that I enjoy
about it, and I was able to kind of come
around on bus the rhymes and saying that he is
when you watch this, when you watch that movie. As
a joke, he's the best part. I will say that
she's not the best part of this movie by a
long stretch, but she is nowhere near as bad as
(43:06):
people say she is, and she's nowhere near as bad
as I remembered her being. For some reason, I remembered
her line delivery being incredibly wooden. You know, I didn't
see any of that this time around. Obviously she's not
as strong as you know some of the more you
know seasoned or I guess talented actors or actresses in
the movie. But she definitely doesn't like stick out as
(43:26):
like a sore spot for me at all throughout.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
It's the Halloween Resurrection effect. I almost guarantee it. This
comes out one year after Resurrection.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Two years. Yeah, a year two thousand and two, I
believe is when we got Resurrection, so next year.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
The stigma of musical artists, especially like rappers or r
and B artists coming into these slash movies that's at
its height, So I have to imagine that's a big
part of it. Now. Now here's the thing. I like
Jason or a lot, but not in this movie. I've
(44:02):
seen him deliver a lot of really good performances. He's
actually in Fred Durst's first movie. Have you guys heard
of that? Not The Fanatics, that's his second movie, his
first movie. This is so weird, it's been like written
out of history. It starred Jesse Eisenberg and Jason Ridder.
It was called The Education of Charlie Banks. Oh my god,
(44:27):
about solid little indeed drama. It was like, like, no
way you could guess that the guy from Lumbiscuit had
anything to do with this production, and here he was
directing it. And Jason Ritter was the standout performance in
that for sure. So I don't know how to explain
his performance in this, but it is by far the
(44:47):
weakest unless anybody else has any other contenders.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
No, I mean I could I could agree. I never
thought he was all that strong. Mostly his chemistry with
Monica Keina. I mean, they really try to sell you
on like these you know, these two love birds that
have been ripped apart from each other and the world
will not be whole until they get back. And then
they get back together, and it's like, I'm not feeling
the sparks. Guys, I don't know. I think you better
(45:15):
offer somebody else. Uh but uh yeah, he's he's fine,
But I agree.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Maybe it's because I'm a fan of his other work
that this just felt like beneath him. He also, he
looked like he could pass his out like Matt LeBlanc's
nephew or something. There was a real Joey Tribiani energy
going on with his performance, and I did not like that.
Just he He's the one, I guess element that kind
(45:45):
of brings down the acting quality of the movie, because
I think the acting is like really solid across the board.
That's the other thing that I hear complaints about. People
don't like these actors, the cast of kids. They don't
like Kelly Roland. I don't for a slasher movie. You
cannot tell me that this is subpar or media.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
No, for sure. Did you ever see the alternate ending?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I watched that the other night and it was it's
was deleted for a reason.
Speaker 4 (46:15):
You're on the subject of a ritter and yea in
that scene, he doesn't. It doesn't do him any favors.
First of all, it's always funny, especially in a hard
R slasher film, and like you finally get the big
culmination sex scene and it's like why are their clothes on?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
But uh, anyway, so.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
They're they're you know, we're finally gonna lose our virginity
to each other. And then you get the call back
to night mun Elm Street two with Jason Ridder's hand
and the knives come out and the look on his
face and I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no,
no go back.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Yeah he he. I mean, he had the only moment
of the movie that when I was watching it this time,
I really felt like it took down the quality. I
don't know if if if you guys felt the same
way about this particular scene. But they're all kind of
getting to plan together, with one of the strangest casting
decisions being the the rogue officer who just moved into town,
(47:02):
who's like the cop from White Chicks, but he so
they're getting this plan together and then he gets up
and he's like, tie the bitch up. And I actively
cringed in my seat when he said that, not because
it's a bad line. I don't think it is. You know,
obviously it's into dream world. It's not really offhand for
something Freddy would say. I just don't think he was
(47:22):
the guy to do it. I don't know that he
should have been in There's two casting choices in this
that I didn't get. He was one and the cop
was the other one. Not that he did a bad
job or anything. It just felt I don't know, do
he feel out of place to anybody.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Else that That whole scene is kind of awkward because
the dialogue shifts very quickly from them actually talking serious
to then being clear it's in a dream sequence. But
the transition is a little rough. Yeah, it is, because
there's so many weird lines back to back, because you
have you have the whole thing of like, wait, Freddy
(47:55):
died by a fire, Jason died by water.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
How can we use that?
Speaker 4 (47:57):
And then that cuts to another person maybe we should
offer Freddy as sacrifice, and then it just goes over
to Kelly Royland. Let's offer this bitch because you know
you want to fuck me or whatever she said, and
then it's just it's one one one and you're like
what is going on here? And then also you brought
up Jason Ridder in that scene where he says tie
the bitch up, something I always notice and laugh at
if you go back and watch it. The way that
(48:18):
they cut the different shots, he does like this little
shoulder shrug thing. He's walking to her and he's like,
let's tie the bitch up, and she's looking at him.
He's kind of like kind of gives this like, oh
well look, and you see it like three times because
they show the different shots, and I guess they use
the wrong moment, so he's like kind of doing this
when he's like the fucking thriller dance when he's walking
up to her.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Oh man, I don't you don't have to feel bad
for Jason Ritter. He went on Devin great career.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
He's married, fine.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Yeah, he started in Fred Durst's first movie. Okay, started
directorial debut.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
He starting the one that does not have a character
that says, let's listen to them biscuit.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Yeah yeah, Oh man.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I like that cop character for the reason that he
actually he's the element that reminds me that this is
still a Friday the Thirteenth movie, because I guess he
either knows about Jason, or maybe they say he even
transferred from Crystal Lake, which, by the way, I guess
that's not in New Jersey anymore, because either Jason hitchhiked
(49:25):
from New Jersey to Ohio or I don't know, he
has his own demonic method of transportation that Freddie hooked
him up with. Maybe maybe he took a ride on
that hell cycle from part five.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
I want to see that. I would like to see
a scene of Jason hitchhiking there. I would love to
see him just in a truck with some big trucker
so where you're headed, you know, just him just being silent.
I would love to see it, Honestly, I really would.
I would have taken this movie to a whole nother
level for me. Yeah, I don't know. That part never
bothered me for some reason, Like I didn't e didn't
(50:00):
even occur in my mind until you just.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Said that right there, because remind me of It's not
like a huge deal, but it reminds me of how
in Batman v. Superman they put Metropolis and Gotham right
across the lake from each other.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Oh well, I think named yeah, I think this is
a better execution in my mind. But I know there
are fans. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hate on it.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
There are. They're passionate fans, some would say aggressive fans
who will definitely stand up for that movie, which is cool.
My whole anti Zech Snyder thing has softened tremendously since
the heyday of the DZU. It's just like, just like,
what that happens. We can move on with our lives now, surely,
(50:46):
but I promise Actually Batman v. Superman, and that makes
the question of where this ranks in the history of
versus movies, because there have been a couple and this
has the best reputation but still not considered very good.
So what's the problem with with versus movies?
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I think it's just.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
I mean, it's kind of the thing that I mean
we're even seeing now a little bit with like the
Deadpool and Wolverine. Whenever you have characters that are mashed up,
there's going to be an inherent silliness to it because
it's always a mashup of two different tones, and that's
kind of the fun and the draw to it. And
I don't I think I think just the novelty wears off.
It's a movie that's not trying to be serious. It's
(51:32):
not trying to say anything. It's not trying to propel
the franchise forward or really, you know, do anything overly
unique or creative with it. It's just trying to have fun.
And inevitably those movies those of us that do enjoy it,
we have fun with it. We revisit it every once
in a while, but it never becomes like this mainstay
for us, and those that don't really care for it
(51:54):
forget about it immediately because it was just like kind
of going to a sporting event for a night. So
I think that's kind of the reason you look, whether
it's Alien Versus Predator or anything else. Batman be Superman
certainly tried to be something that says a lot of things,
but a lot of things that says are just kind
of confusing. But I think it's just that those movies
turn into more of a novelty experience and they just
(52:15):
don't They wear off, I guess a lot quicker than
regular movies.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Well, this is before the era of world building, where
having crossovers was just part it's part of the deal. Now,
if you're trying to create a franchise create a lasting ip.
I mean, Marvel will not greenlight a film unless a
character from another movie gets to have a cameo in
(52:44):
this new movie. That's why they didn't let Edgar write
direct ant Man. He wouldn't put the falcon scene in there,
which is everybody's favorite scene of that movie. So that's
a good call on the MCU's part. But this is
like this kind of last moment in time. This a
VP of like, Yeah, crossovers are a novelty, and that
novelty will fade because a lot a lot of times
(53:07):
that they didn't account for that. They didn't put as
much substance or give this movie enough of its own legacy.
I guess I think this movie is an exception to
that in a lot of ways. I think Alien Versus
Predator is more guilty of this, but I still like
that movie too. I think the only one of these
versus movies that I just hate that I think is
(53:29):
as bad as people say is a VP requiem, the
very first episode of It's that pad for a reason.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, and well, another thing with the crossovers too is
that you know it's rarely like, oh, here's a villain
from a story and a hero from a story, and
they're gonna face off because it rarely does the villain win,
and if they do, then the heroes dead. So you
get villain versus villain, or you get two heroes teaming
up or two heroes facing off and inevitably, like even
an AVP, one of those monsters has to take a
(54:00):
and in this movie, they didn't necessarily do it as
strong as a VP. Did you know, where you have
a predator teaming up with a human, but in a
way like Jason kind of took the hero role.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
I was about to say that he's at least the default,
he's the one we can root for. And I mean, yeah, Cody,
as you're watching this, you know, are are you still
rooting for Freddy because he's your guy? Or like narratively,
do you start to see Jason as the as the
one to root for.
Speaker 4 (54:28):
I mean I never really swayed one way or the other.
I think we're not really supposed to like either one
of them necessarily. It's just you kind of go along
for the ride of the humans, saying, Okay, Freddy is
the greater of the two evils. You know, It's like
when we have our elections. It's like, but uh, but
you had Yeah, that was kind of what they were
going for. Was Freddy's the manipulator. Freddy's the one that
(54:49):
set all this in motion. He's the smarter one, he's
the greater threat. So we need to team up with
the other guy to take him out and then you know,
once he's out of the picture, then we'll figure out
what to do with this fuck. I think that's kind
of what they were what they were going for, which
brings me to a point that I want to see
if we agree or we disagree on so I know
we haven't quite got to the end.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
Of the film yet.
Speaker 4 (55:11):
But something that always I always kind of chime in
and get people riled up with is when you get
into the debate of like who won the movie? And
I think the movie's purposely ambiguous, of like neither one
of them won because they didn't want to favor one
or the other. And the course, you know who knows
of the movie made five six hundred million dollars, they
would have made a second one within a year. But
(55:33):
whenever I take the stance of like Freddy won, or
at least Jason didn't exactly win, my justification is always
or when we talk about like who's stronger, And I
always use this movie as a case as I always
say that Freddy's the strongest of any of the horror icons,
like if you put them all a in a you know,
(55:53):
royal rumble, he would come out at the end of it.
And I always use this one because I say, you know,
the teenage and the humans in this movie all had
to team up and get Jason on their side to
be able to almost defeat Freddy. And if it wasn't
for the teenagers intervening in that van with the injections
(56:15):
and stuff like that, then Freddy would have killed him
off in the dream world half through the movie anyway.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
So I don't know, I just needed to bring that
up because it always I think you're right, Like, I
gotta get it out.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
I would agree with that absolutely.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Well, Freddy's the most powerful in the dream world, but
you have a you have a villain here who's it's
very imbalanced in a way because he's all powerful in
one's fear and then he's he's vulnerable. He's not as
vulnerable as a regular person, I guess because he survives
things that most people can survive if they're you know,
(56:48):
being being tossed around and abused by Jason Vorhees. But
it's still like in that world. Obviously, Jason has the advantage.
If there wasn't if there wasn't a construction site right
around for Freddy to start slinging bulldozers and gas tanks,
I don't know what he would have done. So I
(57:08):
dislike that there's a construction site right by Camp Crystal,
like maybe they're trying to reopen it again.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Maybe I want to I want to bring up a
scene if I could. I know, we we've kind of
gone through certain parts of the movie. Oh that's a shame.
Uh well, I guess I'm talking about if you have to.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:27):
So, so we get this sequence that where you know,
they introduced this party happening in this in this cornfield,
right common Midwestern occurrence, I suppose, so, you know, not
too far off. But the entire sequence, that entire scene
pretty much is one of the is just one of
(57:47):
my favorite sequences maybe in any horror movie, to me
honest with you, because it's insane. And we get, first
of all, Catherine Isabel, who we haven't really talked about yet.
I think she shines in this, like she shines in
everything she's in. I love her. I think she's great
in Ginger Snaps. I think she's great in this. I
think she's great in Sino Evil too. I think she's
great in anything. But first she passes out. Jason prevents
(58:11):
a sexual assault by yeating a guy via machete into
the stratosphere, and then he gets set on fire by
Franklin from Texas Chainsaw mass You're kind.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
Of leaving out the part where he kills Catherine Isabelle tooted.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
A sexual assault and her the breast of her life.
Speaker 3 (58:29):
He's not all good, okay, but but.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
His arms slipped, then.
Speaker 3 (58:34):
He he turns the guy's head. Three sixty gets set
on fire by Franklin from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, runs on
fire out into a party, begins slashing people, and puts
out the fire with beer. Is this not the coolest
character of all time?
Speaker 1 (58:48):
In this scene one of my favorite images of Jason,
who I think he's had a lot of good looks
throughout the years, but him on fire moving through that cornfield,
especially that bird's eye view where he's leaving that fiery trail.
I mean, yeah, this movie had the biggest budget of
any Friday movie up until the remake. I assume him.
I know that had a pretty good budget. But yeah,
(59:09):
I don't think he's ever looked he's ever looked better. Again,
the performance, it's still a little stiff for me. And
that's where somebody might say, well, if they'd cast Kane Hotter,
you know, in a perfect world, they could have. They
could have cast Ted White, who would have been I
guess eighty two Robert England's current age, so that would
have been interesting. But nevertheless, yeah, great look for that, Cody.
(59:31):
Do you do you agree with that? Oh?
Speaker 4 (59:33):
Yeah, I love that sequence. I love that sequence. I
mean it's a good way to rack up the body count.
And I just also love the nightmare sequence that precedes
that too, where Freddy's finally going to get his victim,
now that he's going to get some juice back in them,
and then Jason takes it like it's I love all
of that, and even the way that they shoot Freddy again,
(59:53):
balancing the comedic with the dark, like he's all in
shadow and all you see is the old school the
knives going across the boiler pipes, and that's.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
A classic fear is fear himself.
Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
And stuff like that's fucking freddy and so yeah, you
get a little bit of both there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
But yeah, any of this this just great visual concept
or this motif of contrasting the red and the blue,
right fire and water. Didn't you say that you had
a problem with that? Connor?
Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
So Okay, not necessarily. I just wish it wasn't as
big of a focus, you know, because then it makes
Jason look kind of weird as the guy who literally
in a lot of these movies just comes out of
the water, is constantly surrounded by water, but it's his
biggest fear, you know. That's the That's the one complaint
I have about this movie is that everything else that
everybody says, I don't have a single complain about. Uh.
(01:00:47):
That is the only thing that stood out to me
as a little strange is that this guy, like the
first appearance we get of this character as like a
scary character is in the first film where he comes
out of the In several other movies he comes out
of the water, emerges from it, goes into it to
chase victims. We've had no indication that his greatest fear
(01:01:09):
is water. I could have bought, like you know, when
he shows the head of his mother, like, okay, cool,
that makes sense for him to be afraid of. But
I don't know. I I like the contrast of it
all as like, but I wish it was more of
like now it's their strength, you know what I mean,
not so much like, oh, this is what killed them,
so this is how we kill them now. I don't know.
(01:01:30):
I didn't love it as much. Maybe I'm off base.
Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Maybe you guys can convince me, but I do I
have a defense for that. I don't know if to
convince you.
Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
But one that one sequence is a very commonly heard
complain to the movie where they're in the dream world
and you got that kind of that green lighting, and
then Freddy surrounds him with waterfall and he turns back
into the little boy and he's star cool.
Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Vis By the way, I.
Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Always approach that scene as it being like a psychological
thing in Jason's head, Like I don't think water literally
is a weakness for him, because even in this film,
even at the end of the movie, he's in and
out of the lake in the third act, and you know,
Carrie is Freddy's head out of the lake. So if
it really was like a physical weakness for him, then
when he fell in, that's that's fucking it. But to me,
(01:02:14):
I always approach it is like, that's just kind of
like this visual representation for for Freddy going back to
his childhood, kind of him his torment as a kid,
and that's why he turns back into the kid, and
then you have that nightmare sequence inside of Crystal Lake
later on. So that's just how I approach it. Maybe
they didn't mean it that way, maybe they meant it
to be literal.
Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
That was a question I had, is how how much
can this be considered to be cannon? They do open
up with a montage of previous nightmare movies.
Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Yeah, I don't know. Jason's always kind of been a
continuity nightmare as it is. You know, I don't think.
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
I mean every movie kind of they're like, bah, like, yeah,
we said he died as a kid, but he's actually
a grown adult now and you know, now he's the
killer and number two and you know then you have
the things between four, five and six. So I think
Freddy just had a much cleaner continuity that they could
pay respect to, whereas Jason They're like, I don't fucking know, dude,
It's just it's Jason.
Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
I can I can definitely see that. I can see
that defense for sure, especially if you know, you know,
Freddy being in his mind can easily have pulled some
of those things. I mean, he seems to have access
to that information once. Once he's kind of in your nightmares.
He's done it in the past, so I can definitely
see that act. That defense does actually help a little
bit with that scene. It still feels Jase some sense,
(01:03:31):
but I get it. I get it.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
That's where the Jason purists don't like this movie though,
is because it makes Jason look like a big baby,
right like the does the Rob zombie thing. It goes
back to his childhood. It's less extreme.
Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
It's it's because him being fooled by his mom's sweater
and too doesn't make him look fucking stupid. That's yeah, yeah,
some of the defense some of the things that I
hear like. Don't get me wrong, I love Friday the
Thirteenth to an extent. I love the Friday the Thirteenth fans,
but some of the complaints I hear out of that
franchise just puzzle me. Especially with like the remake and everything,
(01:04:05):
where like things Jason doesn't run, and I'm like, have
you seen the first four?
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
And then you know, Jason doesn't take hostages. It doesn't
make sense. I'm like, she looks like his mom. He
was fooled by the sweater and two.
Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
So yeah, when you get the purists and the rules
that come out, I always kind of laugh because I'm like,
come on, he's a baby. Well they did that in eight,
they did that in four. They you know, and so
I don't know from the outside looking in the to
make fun of.
Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
It, Yeah, they're purists in a in a vibe sense
like this. Yeah, I always hear about that remake that
this doesn't feel like Jason. I'm guilty of that too,
I think.
Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I think last time me and Connor talked, I kind
of made a similar remark about that Friday remake, which
is a damn good movie and I do enjoy it,
but I rarely go back to rewatch it if I'm
in that Friday the thirteenth movie, because it's still doesn't
quite capture what makes those movie special to me. But
that's just that's just that's the vibe check. That's not
(01:05:05):
like a film critique that's not like this movie sucks, right,
it's one of the worst in the franchise, which, yeah,
I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
It's kind of hard not to make that remark. You know,
like when you're a fan of something, you're gonna look
for the things that made you a fan of it.
I understand that.
Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
I want guilty of that with with Chucky. I'm guilty
of sin with that with Chucky, where I'm just like,
this is fucking weird. I wish I felt like the
first three but carry out.
Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yeah, movies make you feel and that actually makes me curious. So,
I mean, we talked about a really cool moment with
Jason there as I kind of see that as like
almost like a character defining moment kind of you know,
like if you want to look through the coolest moments
of the characters, you know, Timeline, I'd put that up there,
you know. For me, I want to bring up something
with Freddy and I want to throw a question to
(01:05:49):
you guys. One of my favorite moments of Freddy in
the entire franchise is actually in this movie. Uh there's
a moment where she goes into Jason's dream and of
course Jason wakes up, So then he comes out of
the water at her that visual of the red you know,
the sky turning red and everything turning red where he's
jumping out of the water and when he lands, he's
(01:06:10):
got this this like devil face, and it's one of
the coolest looks I've ever seen for the character. In
my mind, it's my second favorite look of him, behind
the look he has a new nightmare. So I'm curious.
I want to throw the question to you first, Cody here,
were there any moments in this that you felt were
like almost like a real standout moment for the character
of Freddy Krueger in his timeline, or like a defining
(01:06:32):
moment for him as a character.
Speaker 4 (01:06:34):
I mean, there's quite a few of them in this one,
because I feel like this one it really harkens in
on some of the nastier aspects of Freddy, like his
relationship with Monica Kina's character, which I think, more than
any other movie borders the most on that sa vibe
that's always kind of been in the background of Freddy, Like,
(01:06:55):
you know, we get moments of it with the tongue
and shit like that in the first one. But yeah,
but this one, I mean where he he's literally got
her like dressed up like a little girl in her
nightmare in the bed. I've always had a thing for
the whores that live in this house.
Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
There's moments like that that, to me get the closest
to that than they've ever been, contrasted with all of
the goofiness of the movie. And so I think there's
a lot of moments with Freddy where the devil face
or lines like that, but even just the comedic moments
like where he takes over the the Jay and silent
Bob looking guy.
Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Down man, like if if you want to cast Jason Muses,
just cast Jason Mus.
Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Yeah it expensive, exactly, Yeah, And so yeah, I love
that line.
Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
And then even just the way he's talking shit to
Jason throughout most of the movie, you know, so up there, Like,
I think there's a lot of defining moments for Freddy,
whether you're looking at the sick, twisted version of Freddy,
the scary version of Freddy, or the comedic Freddy.
Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
They kind of hit all quadrants in this one in
my opinion, Oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
But this this is also where I feel like narratively,
I think the filmmakers are want us to, if not
root for Jason, roots against Freddy for sure, because and
this is something I've thought about a lot, and I
even wrote if I can plug this for a second.
I wrote an article for dread Central commemorating, you know,
(01:08:15):
the fortieth anniversary of Friday the thirteenth Final Chapter, and
I was just reflecting on why do we like Jason
Voorhies so much? Because you know, he has a stigma
of being a ripoff, which you know that those are
his origins to a big excent, and logically, there's no
reason why we should have kept Jason around for as
long as we did. But I was thinking about it,
(01:08:38):
and he's the only one of these slasher icons that
has that kind of victim pathos to him. I think
this movie really crystallizes that. Like, as you know, he's
he's a killer, he's very physically intimidating, but his origins
and some of the some of the ways that they
choose to portray him throughout this franchise really highlight that
(01:08:58):
he is a very damage person, a very scarred or
vulnerable person psychologically. That's why you know you got people
who love Part two because that really you know that
that highlights that so much in that climax, So I
don't know. I think I think they're playing off of that,
and even if like we have Monica Quina to root
(01:09:20):
for as our final girl. But uh, I think I
think the filmmaker's probably had a soft spot for Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
I think that when you boil it down, like the
main horror icons, Jason is the only one who isn't
the pursuer. If you leave him alone, he leaves you
alone to an extent, whereas Freddy's constant blood lust Michael Myers,
if you you know, if you're if you're related to him,
you're fucked.
Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
You know.
Speaker 4 (01:09:46):
The other ones, they're they're out for blood, where he's
more so just kind of like, I don't know, easily
a curse that's lingering.
Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
As long as you don't upset the spirit or whatever
he is, you'll be fine.
Speaker 4 (01:09:58):
And in this one, they just he twists that by
using his mother and giving him a mission, and then
when he realizes that it's not his mother, it becomes
more of I got to get Freddy, and then these
these kids are in the way.
Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
Yeah, I do really like the.
Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Lady who plays missus Vorhees. By the way, we have
not talked much about the fights in this movie. Maybe
we should talk about that. In Freddie versus Jason. Uh, yeah, well,
I'm going to turn it over to you, Cody, we
have two big fights dream World fight, Real world fight.
Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Do you just take it from there? Are you a
fan of how they decided to execute it in either.
Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Of these cases? I, personally am. I feel like it
was the right balance between you know, intensity and fun.
Like you got the dream World thing where Freddy is
just gonna make mince meat out of Jason, and there's
this frustration which again even in his line like why
won't you die that he's just not used to something
like this, you know, bouncing them off the walls like
a pinball and swiping at him, and Jason just keeps coming, and.
Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
He's just like, what the hell is this is usually works?
Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
And then that's where you get that where he dives
more into the psychology of and he's like, Okay, I'll
just kill him from within.
Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
And then when you get to the physical fights, yeah,
they had to. They had to, you know, soup Freddy
up quite a bit to even have it last, but
I think it's to fun effect. I love the scene
whenever he Monica Keena rips him out of the dream
world and then all of a sudden, he's like he
looks around and he sees Jason. He's like, oh yeah, yeah,
and Jason just pulls the table over like it's time, motherfucker,
(01:11:31):
let's go. It's great, and so yeah, they have the
fight in each other and then he goes to kick
Jason the balls and nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
And he's like, oh, you know again, like the one
my go to didn't work.
Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
And the construction scene, which is great, and then just
them mostly Freddy getting torn to pieces, but just whenever
they're at their last breaths and it's just I'm gonna
put the machete in you and I'm gonna rip your
arm off and then you're gonna get this. It's just
buckets of blood as they're sitting there doing whatever they
can and still doesn't kill either one of them.
Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
So I have a lot of fun with all the fights.
I think it's I think they did a damn good job.
Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah, yeah, so do I I do have a critique
for Jason's form though as a fighter too too many
times he swings his machete into something and just get
it stuck there.
Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
I don't know what anybody could have expected out of
this fight other than what we got. I think the
dream fight. To me, what I liked is that in
the dream Freddie wasn't really expecting Jason to be that strong,
so he was thrown off his game. And then in
real life, I think Jason was sort of outmatched by
Freddie's speed and like, you know, his thinking ability, and
(01:12:39):
he didn't really expect that because that's not really anything
that those characters have faced before. I mean Freddie obviously,
once people know how to fight him or how to
defeat him, he gets defeated. But he really hasn't had
it where you know, he's done things to actively kill
somebody and they're still standing. If he gets them, he
gets them, and he wasn't able to do it. And
(01:13:01):
I like that there was kind of that you know,
fish out of water for both of them, and it
made the fight more interesting and more believable, you know,
where people are like, you know, Freddy shouldn't be you know,
that strong against Jason in real life. Well, he's got
a couple of things Jason doesn't have. I mean, Jason
is a lumbering giant.
Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
In this movie.
Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
And by the way, which I'd like to throw some
some love it can occursing her here. I think he
did a pretty good job. I don't think he's the best,
but I think he did a good job. And I
think that fight was absolutely perfect. And the moment Cody
brought up there is easily a highlight where where Freddy
gets pulled out of the dream world and not only
(01:13:40):
does he have an oh shit moment, but he has
it while the cabin is on fire and we have
metal music playing. It is one of the coolest moments
in either of these franchises. And it makes me upset
that people don't like, like I've seen complaints about the
fights in these How can you see that and complain
about anything that comes before or after it.
Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
I think it's just is a little too campy for
some people. I think it may be a little too much,
and I I myself wrote down that it's it's campier
than I remember, especially especially the fights that that pinball thing.
I did not recall that that's that's one thing I
could have done with that, So I just I have nitpicks.
I still overall think, you know, especially for what this
(01:14:21):
movie was and all the expectations writing on it. You know,
when I think of the fights in Alien versus Predator,
or the the fight singular not plural and Batman vs.
Superman and how that ended up, I think people should
just be a little more grateful because this could have
this could have gone so much worse, for.
Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Sure, easily. I'm surprised it didn't. I'll be honest, I'm
surprised it didn't go worse. Is this you know, horror
is not known as like you know, people people plot
on horror a lot. They find a lot of reasons
to do so, and I don't, I don't know, I
I'm I'm it kind of makes be proud to watch
a movie like this, where you know, it could have
(01:15:02):
easily been laughable, could have easily been a stain, and
could have easily been a movie that's hard to recommend.
It's not any of those for me.
Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
I recommend it all day. I recommended it to my
wife and she said, please stop making me watch these movies.
So I watched it alone. But that's part for the course.
By now, so you know, this movie ends on the cliffhanger.
I'm sure they would have liked to have made a sequel,
but a Seql or not. That didn't stop people from
speculating about what they would have done for a sequel,
(01:15:34):
and a lot of names were tossed out for for
a third fighter, right to bring into the to the
fray here, So I'm curious what you guys would have
wanted to see.
Speaker 4 (01:15:45):
I think at the time of release, the one that
everybody wanted, myself included was Michael just because he was
the third most popular at the time, and it's like, well,
obviously you got to bring him in. I don't think
that would have worked. Like I've seen people say, would
you want to see a Jason versus Michael, And I'm like,
how does that movie work? Neither one of them talk.
It's just going to be them, you know. So as
(01:16:09):
a kid, Michael would have been my pick. But as
I've gotten older, like if I was the one funding
the movie or coming up with the idea, I think
the most natural one would have been Ash because you
would have had a hero brought in and it would
have changed up the dynamic a lot. He can talk
a lot of shit with Freddie and Jason, but you know,
they get the back and forth with Freddy, and I
think that just tonally, I think the movie would have
(01:16:30):
been a lot easier to conceive of and a lot
easier to execute with that.
Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
Pinhead.
Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
I don't know if this was ever actually like a
serious thing or if this was just something I kept reading.
I could have swore there was something I read where
at one point they had conceived of an ending of
this movie that was going to have them fighting on
the dock and then Chains were going to come out
of nowhere and pin both of them to this wall,
and it was going to be Pinhead standing there and
he was going to say something to the effect of gentlemen,
(01:16:59):
what's the problem, And that was gonna cut the movie off.
And I can only imagine the theater if that would
have happened. But Hell Raiser I could see happening. I
just don't know, Like, as cool as Pinhead is, I'm
just not a big Hell Raiser fan. So I'm just
trying to think of, like what would you do with that?
Like visually cool, chains, you get him, he can talk
(01:17:20):
to get other centemites. Maybe, But I just think that
throws the tone of the movie off too much because
hell Raiser's much more nasty, dark, you know, pain and suffering,
and there's not really fun in any of the hell
Raiser movies with the exception of three. So I think Ash,
if I was to pick, would have been the best one.
Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
That would have been a damn cool collaboration. And they
they were definitely thinking about that because they I think
they made a comic of was it Ash Versus Freddy
Versus Jason?
Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
Yeah, yeah, they did make a comic because I think
it was like a short series, like a mini series.
Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
That fun fact.
Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
Actually, uh, this is the day for those that remember
message boards, that's what we used to do before there
was Twitter and everything like that. I was on like
the Freddie versus Jason message boards and stuff like that.
We'd all have like little fan fiction ideas, and I
remember back then everybody kept throwing out Ash and I
had never seen the Evil Dead movies at the time,
So actually the message boards people throwing out Ash as
(01:18:20):
like this is the next person that needs to fight
them is what made me go and rent the Evil
Dead movies for the first time. And I remember I
was watching them and then the chick got assaulted by
the Tree, and I was like, what the fuck is this? Like,
I was so thrown off into what the hell I
was watching? And then the second one started, I'm like,
this is the second movie. I had no warning whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
You know, we could talk about these two franchises all day,
and I guess it's still bittersweet to me that this
could be the last time we see, at least this
pre reboot version of these characters. Like, that's a question.
Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
That's a question. I'd be curious on your guys' opinion.
Speaker 4 (01:18:59):
Do you think if the remake praise the Platinum Dune
craze didn't start just a year after this, that we
would have gotten a second one no matter what? Or
do you like I tend to think that the success
of Texas Chainsaw and then every Property suddenly going the
remake route is what stopped this dead in its tracks,
because it was very successful at the time. I don't
(01:19:19):
think I don't personally remember Robert Engle or anybody being like, steadfast,
this is it. This is the last one, no matter what.
So I don't know if a second one would have
what route that would have taken. But I kind of
feel like my personal opinion the remake Craze is what
killed it from ever happening.
Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
God, I'd never considered that timeline before. I mean, this
is two thousand and three and the remake is two
thousand and three to two. Right, Wow, what a moment
in time, Like a complete transition, I guess. I mean,
this is really kind of a swan song for a
whole generation of slasher movies.
Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
I don't think they would have made a second Ready
versus Jason. I think the the rights to Friday the
Thirteenth seemed to be a constant headache for whoever is
involved these days, and that goes back all the way
to the Noonline days. I think it's I think it's
it created a very clear pivot, Like without the remake, Crazy,
(01:20:21):
you probably have a big question of where do we
go from here? And I think they would have sat
around for a long time trying to figure something out.
So created a clear direction. But I think we would
have gotten more Nightmare on on Street movies with Jason.
It just again, it's a headache for whoever has it.
It's like a game of hot potato, like Paramount you
(01:20:42):
no new line you No. I think they're trying to
get Blumhouse to buy that up too, So it's just
going to be a constant game there, A tragic game
for anybody who's watching closely, because I really thought we
were going to have something with that a twenty four show,
and they can't bring Jason back to his glory days
(01:21:05):
right now.
Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
I think we absolutely would have gotten a sequel to
this had that. If Texas Chainsaw Massacre had failed, have
just completely flopped, it wouldn't have signified the end of
that era kind of, you know, because this movie did
really well, But it's also something that they had been
waiting for for a while. So it's reasonable to believe that, Okay,
(01:21:26):
people have it out of their systems, they're not gonna
want to see it again. The novelty is gone. If
they wanted to think that, it's reasonable to think that.
I don't think it was true per se, but I
think with the failure of Halloween Resurrection just a year
before this, pretty much every other horror franchise by this
point being either over or direct to video or like,
(01:21:50):
it wasn't going well for really anybody around this time.
Horror as a genre, I mean, you could argue around
this time was sort of on the wave back up,
but it was down here still. It had it had
to climb a little bit. So I think they would
have at the very least made a direct sequel to
this where we got another face off. Had that Texas
(01:22:12):
Chainsaw Massacre movie failed and people saw, Okay, well maybe
we shouldn't abandon the old version of these characters so soon.
Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
I don't know. If that remake failed, I think the
I think the response would have been more a contraction
of of horror filmmaking, you know, like a retreat.
Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
Maybe a big budget. I could definitely see it going
more like almost like horror was a couple like I
don't know, like eight years ago or so. I mean, like,
let's think about it for real. I mean, these insidious
movies and movies that came out around that same time period,
it's not like they're spending a whole lot of money
on them. You know, they had low buds.
Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Freddy versus Jason was way more expensive than your typical
horror movie, definitely more expensive than your typical slasher movie.
So another headache that I think. I mean, what what
did this make over one hundred million dollars? Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Yeah, one hundred and sixteen million, and I think sixteen million,
you think maybe it would have been like an AVPr situation,
you know, where the people is like a huge, huge
downgrade and the budget slashed in have as.
Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Long as they bring lights on that it'd be a
little bit I know.
Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
Yeah. But the thing is, when you're dealing with Freddy,
you always got to bring back Robert England, and he's
a very unknown variable. You can stick anybody in a
Predator suit or a Zeno morph suit. You can write
anything around that. I mean, if you can't get Robert England,
you might as well just not make the movie.
Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
I think that's a good point to to transition to
our final verdicts here. I think we've covered just about
everything we can cover from this not unlike Jason Voorhees
reaching into the guts of Freddy Kruger at the end
of the movie. I think we have done everything we
could possibly do here. So that leads us to our
final verdicts. Now, anybody seen the show for the first time,
coming back to the show, we have four potential ratings
(01:24:02):
five if you're Cody that you can give to a movie.
In this show, it's either that bad not that bad.
Actually good or actually great. In Cody's case, he also
has actually fucking awesome, which was introduced in his first
appearance on our show covering The Hollow Man. So, Cody,
I do want to start with you here, thank you,
(01:24:22):
of course for coming back to the show here as
a guest for this episode. Where would you lay this movie?
And if you want to give any final thoughts on it,
you're free to do so.
Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
I'd given an actually great. I don't know if I'd
go over the top with this one.
Speaker 4 (01:24:35):
There's definitely some goofiness in there, but for what for
the experience that I would expect a Freddy versus a
Jason movie to give. I think it gives a really
good experience. I've always enjoyed it. I've always like revisiting it.
I don't think it gets the do that it's quite deserved.
So yeah, I mean it's an endlessly fun movie that
ages very well for me in a nice little, nice
(01:24:56):
little cap off footnote to Robert England's Freddy.
Speaker 3 (01:25:01):
Perfect I like to hear that, Gabe. I'd love to
hear your final verdict on this movie as well.
Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Yeah, I give it an actually great too, and I'm
going to bounce off something that Cody said, because I
don't think this is just a fitting cap off for
Robert England as Freddy, although it definitely is that. I
think it's also a fitting cap too. Again, a whole
generation of these movies. You know, it's kind of a
swan song for the classic versions of these characters and
(01:25:28):
of a you know, I think there's a generational value
to this movie for sure, the way it represents the
end of that end that transitioned to a new one,
and this movie gives that whole era. It gives it
a high note to end on. So despite some nippicks,
I have some like real fanboy grievances that I might
(01:25:48):
have with like a, you know, Jason wouldn't do that,
or maybe this is too goofy for Freddy. It deserves
an actually great for that alone.
Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
To actually great, so far a lot of pressure. Luckily,
I'm not going to disappoint. This is actually great. This
this movie is fucking awesome. You know, Like, what other
movie can you get two horror icons clashing to metal
music and fire? If you show me one, maybe I'll
enjoy it half as much as this one. You know,
(01:26:19):
perfect choice for director in my mind for the time period,
just things that make it a nostalgic time period, like
some of the editing and and but real, honestly great
moments for both of the characters. I couldn't have asked
for anything more for this and even the complaint that
I had was mostly diminished throughout the course of this episode,
(01:26:41):
which I always love when when I can, when I
can do so, Yeah, I'm not going to break the
mold here. This movie is actually great. It'll be shooting
up my ranking. Actually, this was not one that I
revisited often. It will be one that I revisit often
following this episode. So glad to see we all came
down pretty favorably on Freddy Versusson here. I'm sure the
(01:27:01):
haters of this movie will have a great time with
that one. But yeah, thank you all for watching the show. Cody,
of course, we want to thank you again for coming
on and being gracious with your time here for us
and what's coming up for you that you'd like to
let people know about.
Speaker 4 (01:27:18):
At the time of this release, you should have hopefully
my wrap up of all of July's movies, which we
had some big ones like Dead Bull.
Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
And Wolverine and Maxine and Long Legs. And then.
Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
We've got Trap that comes out that same day as well,
so I should have a review out for that on
the second. And then I'll probably revisit Shyamalan's movies and
do another ranking of those, because it's been two or
three movies since I've updated my ranking.
Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
Awesome oat, Josh Hartnett, another alumni of the show. I'm
a big fan of Guy, so I'm actually pretty excited
to see that, even if I'm not the biggest Shyamalan fan.
So cool, cool, I'm excited where that lands in your ranking.
Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
Yeah, looking forward to the content coming out from you.
If you're new to our channel, well, first of all,
if for some reason you don't know who Cody is,
please go over and subscribe to his channel. He makes
great stuff I've been watching down below. Link will be
below in the description. And if you are coming to
us for the first time, or for some reason you
haven't done so yet, we would love a subscription from
(01:28:24):
you as well, either here, or if you want to
give us that extra bit of support, you can head
over to patreon dot com slash that Bad Media for
a bunch of extras. You can get a sticker, you
can get exclusive content hopefully if the hopefully, if our
if our recording schedule can go as planned, you won't
get a whole lot more coming off of there. Really
really wasn't planned when we started this whole thing. But
(01:28:45):
occasionally we unlock that Patreon vault and throw you fun
episodes like our Punisher series we've been releasing recently. And
you can also visit us at that badmedia dot com,
where you can see links to all of our social
media sites, all of our videos, all of our series
that we have going on on this channel. Everything is there,
everything you could possibly want, and then some things you
(01:29:05):
didn't ask for are there as well. So I think
that's all the horring I have to do for us, Gabe,
anything else you'd like to say before you take us home.
Speaker 1 (01:29:13):
Yeah, we'll also be doing a new content for the channel.
We have a Texas Change on MASCAR ranking coming out,
the first ranking that we've done and shouldn't be the last. Also,
if you want to get a little not a Criterion closet,
but a Criterion corner walk through, I put up a
little video walking through my favorite Criterion releases, and I
(01:29:35):
actually plan to do one for my favorite shout Factory
releases too, so just be on the lookout for more
content and more types of content from this channel in
the future. But now that I've hoared the channel out too,
I think that's probably a good time to wrap thing up.
Wrap things up, So thanks again to Cody. Go check
(01:29:55):
out his channel, and without further ado, I'm Gabe, I'm Connor.
Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
And I'm Cody.
Speaker 1 (01:30:06):
And this is not that bad. Signing out
Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
M M