Jason Goes to Hell - A Refreshing Friday or a Cursed Sequel? - That Bad Media

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
Okay, all right, okay, so so this movie is kind
of made for this show. No like like this. When
we sat down and we talked about the concept of
what not that bad could be, you know, we talked
about movies that are specifically franchise movies that stick out

(00:42):
like a sore thumb or you know, are the the
bane of the existence of the traditional franchise fans. This
has got to be it for Friday the thirteenth.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
No. Yeah, every franchise has what I call a loser detector,
an installment that serves as a litmus test for one's
ability to appreciate I would say, filmmaking on its own
merits and appreciate ingenuity in a franchise that is famously

(01:17):
stale and repetitive. Every franchise has this. Some franchises have
multiple multiple I would argue, yes, I would argue the
Leprechaun series is one losing protective movie after another.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Ninety percent of that entire franchise. By the way, which
we covered in full on our Patreon for for Saint
Patrick's Day, was that this year last Origins, which is yeah,
we did. We did. We talked about all of them.
We talked about all of them, and we didn't. Maybe
we didn't have as many defenses for some as others.

(01:52):
You know, we weren't as kind.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
To offended the whole of the franchise rather than yes,
individual movies, because some some film alms don't stand on
their own, some of them really do benefit from that
package deal of the franchise. I would argue absolutely the
Friday the thirteenth. When you look back at these movies
and stack each of them against each other, I think

(02:15):
most of these movies actually really benefit from being in
a franchise, from being a part of that package deal
and having this really wonderful continuity, not like not continuity
in the technical sense, because these things were so haphazardly
made that they can't even they can't even remember to

(02:38):
put most of these on Friday the thirteenth, Right like Dog,
if you set the sequel a day after the last one,
you're not making Friday the thirteenth anymore, Homie, Yeah, you're.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Making Saturday the fourteenth. Now, this is a movie though
that I think I think both of us could kind
of agreeve it, this is the one of all of them.
If that that actually it hurts it that it's a
part of this franchise.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, it hurts it, but it also distinguishes it. I mean,
I think it is a really interesting thing to this
movie's benefit, at least in terms of its legacy. To
compare how wild this movie is and how much it
goes for broke, and you compare it to the kind
of whimpering of Jason Takes Manhattan or the I would

(03:30):
say the nonsense of Jason X, and this movie does
compare pretty favorably with a lot of other films in
this franchise. Obviously, this movie has no right to exist,
It has no right to call itself a Friday the
Thirteenth movie. If you cut out the first ten minutes
and the last ten minutes, there's really nothing on screen

(03:53):
to even indicate that you're watching something related to that
franchise or that lore. So yeah, obviously there's baggage for
this movie being a part of a franchise. But we
talk about these kind of soft reboots as a very
recent invention in cinema. No no, no, no, no, go

(04:17):
back to what this movie is trying to do. It's
coming after Jason Takes Manhattan, which underperforms so bad that
Paramount sells the rights to New Line Cinema, and the
hope is that they can finally do that Freddy Versus
Jason movie. Problem is, they can't find a single script

(04:37):
that they're satisfied with. So how do you how do
you keep interest in this franchise alive while we're trying
to make a Freddy Versus Jason movie? Well, you may
you hand it off to an ambitious young director named
Adam Marcus. Yes, and then you throw in Freddy Krueger's glove,

(04:58):
you know, reaching up from from under the sand at
the end.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, you know this this early nineties, these early nineties dealings,
if you want to call them, that sort of set
the stage for what we're looking at now. Right, Like
back then when they sold the rights, the rights were
to the character Jason Vorhees, right, Like they couldn't call
it Friday the thirteenth, that they couldn't put the Final Friday,
which they could call it the Final Friday.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Like, how are we splicing this?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I think the idea was that the title, the full
title Friday the thirteenth was not allowed. Like if they
wanted to call this like Friday nineteen ninety three, I'm
sure they could have done it. I don't know if
it would have held up in court the final Friday.
I think maybe, I don't know, maybe it was a
middle ground. But we're looking at the early nineties at
this point. Adam Marcus, I believe he's very cool guy.

(05:46):
By the way, Uh, we both are familiar with him.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
To interact with Adam Marcus, I don't know much about
your experience, but I got to chat with him for
Dread Central. Yes, he did a really fun conversation looking
back at Jason Goes to help, but some of his
other his other projects, and how he's been involved in
some other major horror franchises. My favorite part of our
discussion is when he profusely distanced himself from some of

(06:13):
the creative choices in Texas Changsaw three D.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, And you know, I appreciate Adam Marcus a lot,
not just because he's been cool to me personally, but
also because he's he's a creative guy, and he's I
wouldn't say he's unapologetic, but he's he's just he is
definitely unapologetically him. And when he makes.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Unapologetic had in it, Yeah, he's unapologetic, unapologetic about this film.
He has crowdfunded for a documentary. I think that The
Dark Heart of Jason Voorhees. We'll put a link to
it down below. It's it's been crowdfunded successfully, and I
believe it's nearing the final stages of production. But there

(07:01):
was there was a tier that he offered in that
crowdfunding campaign, a tier for the haters. I think it
was called the fu Tier, And apparently whoever signed up
for that, I think gets a shout out in the credits.
You know, they get their name emboldened as a certified
Jason goes to hel hater, and that's something that he

(07:22):
has really worn on his sleeve, you know, the contentious
reputation that this has had in the franchise. But conversely,
you know, I think he sees it the way I
see it, that he's proud to be a guy who
really stood up against this, this pressure to rely on
this formula that was going stale so hard and so fast.

(07:47):
He stood up to them and made his own damn movie.
And he's proud of that, and I say kudos to that.
Of course, now we can talk about this movie in
a number of ways. I think we can talk talk
about it as its own mystical body swapping slasher or
as you know, as a film that stands in the

(08:09):
legacy of Friday the Thirteenth. I don't know which is
the more interesting conversation. But what strikes you about this
movie first in terms of how well it works? Says?
Does it stand out to you as like a like
a secretly a secret, hidden gem of a sequel in
this franchise? Or is it like a man if only

(08:31):
they hadn't called it Friday the thirteenth, everyone would love
it just as much as I do.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
To me, it's kind of both. It's a tale of
two feelings. When I watch this, I'm very split. When
I watched this movie, I just I just caught it
at the time of recording. I watched it last night.
I had a lot of fun watching it. I also
had a lot of questions by the end. And this
is not my first time watching it. I was very
familiar with this movie. I put a few people onto

(08:58):
this movie. Actually gave away my DVD copy when I
got the full box set, the new Blu ray box
set that came out like what one or two years ago,
the shop Factory. Yeah, very well done, very well put together.
The transfers are great, and it looked great when watching
it the unrated cut. Yes they do, Yes, they do
the unrated cut, and I did. I did watch it

(09:21):
last night, and it really is a tale of two movies.
And you know, part of that is the reception, right
because this movie wouldn't be available for the show, But
it also wouldn't be what it is reputation wise if
it didn't sort of get the backlash that it did,
but it still gets it. It's not one of those
movies that sort of you know, sometimes you see a
movie get pounded on when it comes out and then

(09:44):
appreciate it later. I mean, we talked about Halloween three
on this channel, and it's one that has been growing
over the years. This was released in nineteen ninety three
from first time director, as we marked, Adam Marcus, and
still to this day is hated enough to have a
one point seven out of five on Letterbox, making it
more than eligible for the show. In fact, one of

(10:05):
the lowest rated movies we've ever covered for not that bad.
I want to throw it back to you on this question, though,
is this an experience that you find yourself sort of
leaning towards that I wish it wasn't called Friday or
and doesn't have Jason vorheez or can you appreciate this
as sort of, you know, like the palate cleanser that
it would have been at the time for formula And

(10:28):
by the way he comments, he comments on the formula
at the beginning of this movie. We'll get into that
in a few minutes. But what where where do you
kind of sit on your appreciation when you're watching this,
if you have any I don't even know where you
stand on this movie.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I think we've we've talked before about the fact that
I really love this movie. I respect it. I love
most films in this franchise, but this is one of
the few I admire for any kind of creative tenacity
or audacity. And the comparison to Halloween three, it's a

(11:03):
really important context because as Halloween three, I think, I
think it it really could have could have had a
whole different chance with audiences if it wasn't called Halloween.
And really I don't see much to justify calling it
Halloween three, even still as a fan of that film,

(11:26):
and as you know, someone who who ranks it above
many many of those sequels, right, Yep, yet ironically I
still have doubts that it should be called Halloween three.
But this is a movie Jason Goes to Hell that
has this rogue quality that I think, again, I can

(11:46):
only truly appreciate as this is a sequel or or
some kind of a you know, soft continuation of the
storyline of Jason Warhies, which was already compleated enough to
begin with, you know, since the second movie. But you

(12:09):
know the thing is, those those previous movies that always
fumbled the bag with with the logic and the mythos,
and we we we chuckle at it, but we also,
you know, I think, have affection for how how much
these movies just kind of solder on past any of that,
past any logic issues. Now this one takes a really

(12:32):
like an anarchist approach and and takes all of all
of the the mistakes and and and the fuck ups
and the log the logic issues. It takes all of
that and finds this whole ethos out of it. It
becomes this furiously uh uh proudly black sheep installment.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
And and the question is, you know, when a movie
like this is made that is going to get that
that furious backlash. Are the are the filmmakers aware of
what they're doing, and the fact that I can so
clearly see Adam Marcus's intentions and the fact that he
is so obviously poking the bear here. Uh that, I mean,

(13:24):
that's the heart of why it's polarizing, and that's why
I kind of have doubts it's ever going to get
that Halloween three widespread reappraisal, where like, yeah, like you'd
be hard pressed to find someone who who's stole like
a passionate, diehard Halloween three hater history has really been
rewritten there. I don't think that'll happen here because I

(13:46):
think the tenacity is too embedded in the DNA of
this whole project.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well yeah, I mean, like nowadays, you see there's almost
like a roll your eyes effect when somebody talks about
Halloween three and they go, oh, well, it sucks because
it doesn't have Michael Myers in it, and you're just like,
oh my god, Okay, it doesn't have Michael Myers in it.
Everybody knows it doesn't have Michael Myers in it right now,
But with this movie, you don't you don't really have
that for any of the arguments against it. You know,
people will say, oh, well, there's not enough Jason, and
they go, well, yeah, you know, there isn't There isn't

(14:15):
a lot of Jason in this movie. Oh well, they
decided to go a crazy route. You know, how crazy
does your movie have to be? That you're the black
sheep in a franchise that took their guide to space.
That's one of the craziest things about the Friday the
Thirteenth franchise for me is that even Jason X has
gotten more of a reappraisal for taking their guy to space.
And and by the way, I love Jason X. Jason

(14:37):
X is very high in my Friday Thirteenth ranking.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
In my ranking, I get the fact that it doesn't
take itself seriously, right, Yeah, it asks to not be
taken seriously, right, It sort of begs to not be
taken seriously. And I think that movie could have could
have used more of the edge that Adam Marcus had
when he was making Jason Goes to Hell.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
I think I think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
You know, Jason X. It almost reminds me of like
a Batman and Robin situation, where I mean it's founded
on a really terrible premise of of where to take
this character, but almost like it's embarrassed, so it really
asks you to not to not take it seriously enough

(15:22):
to really to really judge it. You know, it almost
asks to be taken out of the cannon of this
whole franchise and and and be set apart from the
rest of this enterprise. So I don't know, I I
think a lot more if you're going to keep making
sequels as as we find ourselves in a timeline where

(15:45):
that is that's that's the case for for not just
these franchises, but just like, look at what look at
what gets released, look at what grosses the most, you
know by the end of the year. Yeah, sequels or reboots,
whatever you call them, they rule the world. And it's like, okay, fine,

(16:05):
but if that's the case, can we have a movie
like Jason Goes the Hell that is like a stealth
original movie, you know, like this is a holy original,
wicked idea that's been smuggled into a franchise that I
think is most famous for being like the most formulaic
of a very formulating genre, you know, the slash genre.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, and I think I think, honestly, at this point
I think there's nothing else to do but start diving
into the movie except for welcoming back. A couple of
actors who have been featured in Not That Bad movies
before highlighting Caine Hodter, who had an uncredited bodyguard role
in Daredevil, which we talked about previously on the show,
Richard Gant, who played Admiral Phelps and Godzilla ninety eight,

(16:54):
and of course Julie Michaels, who had an uncredited role
of Jane in the aforementioned Batman and Robin, all of
which movies you can watch right here on the That
Bad Media channel covered on Not That Bad.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
It's so funny to me that you brought up Kane
Hander and the connection you made to one of our
previously discussed movies was Daredevil and not Friday the thirteenth
The new Blood, which I thought was where you were
going with that.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, well, you know, early on in this show, I
used to do a connections game where I would try
to connect all of our movies together, and I wanted
to be a little more obscure than to do the
easy route of saying the new Blood. Of course, though
Kane Hodter has been on the show before with the
new Blood. We talked about his performances Jason in that.

(17:39):
I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about it in this.
There's not much to talk about with his performance in this,
but he does have another role. He plays two roles
in this. He plays Jason and he also plays one
of the guards at the corner's office. So, you know,
we'll have some things to discuss, but I think let's
dive right into the movie. So we kind of kick
off with this opening that is very much in line

(18:02):
with this franchise.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Now, so we kick off with might be the best
Friday the Thirteenth movie out of this whole franchise, if
you take it as a short film. I mean, it's
sixteen minutes of the most slick and straightforward and well executed,

(18:28):
you know, Jason Voorhe's goodness that that you would hope
to get out of these movies. It's the movie it
is so on the nose about being the quintessential Friday
the Thirteenth movie that it's meta. It's just out of
the nature of how self aware and pandering it is

(18:50):
in that sense. But you know, I have to imagine
that audiences must have known that what Jason has popped
out of the shadows. By minute ten that's never happened before.
We already have the chase with the final girl that's
never happened before. Like something even subconsciously must have been
kicking in telling them, I don't think this is gonna
go the way most of these movies go. I don't

(19:10):
think even compared to the Telekinesis One or the or
the Right patt and One, I think like this one
is really gonna buck tradition.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
That's what's so funny about it, right, is like it's
meant to be this sort of like almost not I
don't even really want to call it a jab, but
just like a joke about how this franchise is kind
of formulaic. Right. It starts with every trophe that you
could possibly imagine it done, incredibly well executed, very well shot,
very well. You know, everything about it is well done.

(19:41):
But at the same time, it's kind of funny because
something that's intentionally so formulaic is so out of the
norm for the franchise, right, because you always start with
this kind of slow But I mean, besides the remake,
which you know, does give us a bit of a
thirty minute opening of Jason, you know, being Jason.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that's what I compare this opening to is the
open yeah, the remake.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Oh yeah, very much so. And and ultimately like this
this whole formulae thing, like you're wondering kind of where
it's gonna go. Already, this girl who we're introduced to
we think, you know, might factor into this movie. More
is out in the woods and Jason's chasing her down
and then towel in a towel and we get one
of the most insane thing, I'm sure at the time,

(20:24):
especially I know my first time watching this, I didn't
know anything about this movie. I saw the cover of
it and I thought, Man, why does nobody ever talk
about this? I was just getting into horror at the time,
and my I just stood there kind of slack jawed,
because Jason gets gets surrounded by the least the military

(20:44):
and they fuck him up. Man kill that mother.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And Jason has never looked better. In my opinion, this
you like this look of Jason, This Jason bore He
is like, this is my jam This is what I
want my undead slashers to look like. I know there's
there's some controversy around his appearance in this some people reallyach.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Cody has been on the show twice. Go check out
his episodes if you haven't. He called him I believe
microwave Jason.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Likes Jason or something like that. Yeah, it's funny because
Cody is one of the few people who defends this movie.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
He does, Yes, he does. His review is quite good, actually.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, but he he dislikes one of one of the
things that I think is probably the most popular about
this movie, which is Jason's look. Again, I know, I
know there are haters about that too, but again coming
from my background, as you know, a creature feature fiend,
you know, a hound for misshapen and malformed murderers.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah, I dug it.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
And it sets the tone so well, I mean, because
we have already left behind the more grounded Hue and
Jason if that could ever really be accepted as human
because you know, his his whole background are shrouded in
in this weird mystery of of how he's alive and

(22:12):
all of that, which is kind of why this movie exists.
You know. Adam Marcus, when I talked to him, he said,
the whole point of this movie, it's like the force awakens,
right a whole movie exists just to kind of address
one plot hole that people have, like fans have always
kind of talked about, which is, you know, how did

(22:32):
Jason survive? But the he felt emboldened by that question
to go off and create a movie where Jason voor
He's you know, the hockey mask wearing Michael Myer's copycat
is now he is a sentient heart that can take

(22:54):
over the bodies of mortals by seducing them effectively. This
is when that corner chows down on Jason's heart. That's
like feeling almost like a seduction scene. And can I
tell you something really disturbing about me personally? Yeah, that
scene always like makes me feel really hungry. I think

(23:17):
it's because being from Texas, I see, I see not
a heart, but I see like some kind of like
brisket doused in barbecue sauce. That's what I see whenever. Okay,
this corner eating Jason's heart. But yeah, I'm a.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Little worried for a second there, I'll be honest. You
kind of concerned me there, But you recovered. I think
you recovered.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Well, I think it was it was an intentional red herring.
You know, I wanted to leave you in.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Suspense, man, But I want to toss.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
This back to you because you had an experience I did. Not.
You watch this blind. I knew about all of the
controversy when I saw this. So what are you thinking
as you see this corner consuming the heart of Jason boorhees.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
I just remember the first time watching this, just spending
ninety nine percent of the movie just so confused, you know,
like I it's it's filmed in such a way where
it really it does feel like almost this like temptation
or like seduction almost from this beating heart. And I'm
like what I I vividly remember my first time watching this.

(24:25):
Jason gets killed and I'm I'm just like I just
sitting there silently shaking my head just in display. I'm like,
what are they How are they gonna recover from here?
Like are they gonna go like the Frankenstein rouse, somebody
gonna put him back together? Like what are they gonna do? Now?
And then and then that scene happened, and I just

(24:45):
audibly like I was by myself, and I just kept saying,
what the fuck is going on? What is happening right now?
And then he's is.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
This a new what the fuck? Or are you passing judgment?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm just confused. You know, it's not even like an
angry what the fuck you know they're that was my
first time watching like a Rob Zombies holloween two, or
first time watching Halloween n's type deal, because that franchise
like meant something to me, you know, Friday the thirteenth.
It's not like it never meant anything to me, but
it wasn't until I reappraised the movies as an adult
that they really started to grow on me. And like,

(25:18):
you know, just really appreciating Jason Lives kind of helped
me appreciate the rest of the franchise. The remake I
already liked, but the rest of them I really didn't
have any connection to. So I'm not saying I'm not
like a Cody Leech, you know, watching watching Freddy's Dead,
what the fuck? It's It's more of like a I
don't understand what's happening right now. I almost thought I was.

(25:43):
I was almost thinking, like the disc that I bought,
I was like, did I buy this from like a
used store? Like is this the wrong movie? Or like
I was like no, I remember opening the shrink wrap
like this was this was legit, Like what are what
is going on? Because that corner, of course, you know,
he eats the heart and then we see him immediately

(26:04):
kill his other corner that you know they're in the
office together, and then.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
We cut to some some some.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Red flares, some flares whatever.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Spirits very I'm gonna I'm gonna already drop this connection
extremely hell Raiser. To me, I see a very palpable
Clive Barker influence because the heart here is almost like
it's almost like a lament configurations. It serves a similar

(26:40):
kind of utilitarian purpose to the plot. And I don't
know like where the hell Raiser movies were at this time,
Like could that have actually been an influence on Adam Marcus?
Is that just a coincidence? I mean yeah, like what
they come on in the late eighties, this comes out
early to mid nineties. I just think something happened to

(27:01):
reset the horror formula, like the formula for these types
of movies. Because Freddy's dead, the Curse of Michael Myers,
Jason goes to hell, they all go into this weird
metaphysical lane that like maybe with the exception of Freddy Krueger,
because you don't know's he's he's this being in creature's dreams.

(27:25):
But Michael and Jason, like we have a playbook that
you were faid to follow, and you know, really the
most deviation that you had up to that point was
like putting putting them in like different locations, like you'll
put Michael Myers in a hospital, put Jason on a boat.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Uh right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
So so something happened, and I kind of want to
attribute it to hell Raiser because that was one of
the more like financially popular horror franchises to take the
slasher formula but take it outside of the confines of
of the you know, of the genre, you know what
I mean, Like it's like it's starting to get fantastical

(28:06):
and mystical and metaphysical. So I want to draw a
connection there. I don't know if it's strong enough, but
that was my immediate thought, and I had that thought
several times over, was that this is like a a
pinhead of five. Uh, Friday the thirteenth.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
I could I could absolutely see that. I mean, you're
you're right there. I mean, this wasn't the only franchise
to do it, of course, all the Big Three have
their their sort of supernatural outlier, which is kind of
funny because like, it wasn't too long before this movie
that Jason was literally fighting a carry clone. Uh, and
now we are we're looking at this one, and it

(28:46):
just feels like more of a departure for me than
that than the New Blood.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Did you know, because New Blood dlastic departure.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
It's it's there's a lot in this movie that we're
going to continue to get into things that they introduce
use in this that that that builds that sort of
fantastical element. But I would argue that this is the
weirdest of any of the Big three franchise movies because
even and I don't know if if you're gonna want
to censor this for non Patreon users or not, I

(29:15):
don't know, but there is a movie in the Halloween
franchise that literally has cults and incest, rape and awful things,
awful things, and this is still weirder.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
That version didn't make it theaters, to be fair, no
it didn't.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
It didn't.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
So this this of the theatrically released, But even even
the theatrical version of Halloween six is still a weird movie.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I mean, we're looking at Woltz and sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, jealous.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
So the fact that this is weirder, I think is
a is a real testimony, and I'm not saying that
in a negative way.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's an accomplishment. I think what I will
say comparing this to the New Blood is that the
New Blood deviation, I think is a really lateral move.
It doesn't really defy the structure or the formula of
the preceding Friday the Thirteenth movies. You know, it gives

(30:13):
it gives the Final Girl superpowers and instead of killing
Jason by outsmarting him like previous Final Girls did she
she you know, Luke Skywalker's his ass.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
She still does kind of outsmart him.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
But yeah, she us for But when I think of
like like Ginny having to outsmart him at the end
of Friday the Thirteenth Part two, very grounded, and now
we have that same we have the same dynamic. It's
just now you know, she's using her mind to literally

(30:46):
fight him as opposed to doing any kind of psychological
games there. So that's that's I think the important thing
to remember is that this franchise had gone weird, but
in lateral ways that really didn't change. I think the
fun mentals of what a Friday the thirteenth movie was.
But you know what they're also probably thinking is that, hey,
if we're gonna have Jason fight Freddy Krueger, like I

(31:09):
think we have to, they probably felt that they had
to do something to make that make more sense, Like
these two universes are going to have to cross over
at some point. Jason has never been established to have
anything to do with with the fantastic or the spiritual.
If we're gonna sit up Freddie versus Jason, we should

(31:31):
probably ease Jason into an environment like that. But again
that's that speculation about what went on at New Line Cinemas.
But you know, from here, Jason possesses this corner, and
then you know, it continues to be a slasher movie.

(31:51):
You know, this guy is killing promiscuous youngsters in one
of the most graphic murders to ever occur in any
kind of mainstream horror film. It's graphic in terms of
gore and in terms of sexuality. It it peaks on

(32:13):
both of those levels. But before that, actually we get
introduced to our characters, and this time I would argue
the characters matter, So answer this for me, is Creighton
Duke the best character out of this whole franchise.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I have written down in my notes here Creighton Duke
would be considered one of the greatest characters in horror history,
both ironically and unironically. If he wasn't in this movie,
I consider him one anyways, but the horror community as
a whole would have such a greater appreciation for this guy.
There's so much about him that is so like ironically great,

(32:54):
you know, because he's like this over the top bounty hunter.
Everything's tough, everything is like a you know, a game
to him, and he you know, he's controlling, he's he's
controlling the chessboard and everything like that, and it's it's hilarious,
like it's genuinely funny at some parts. It's genuinely fun
at some parts. It makes this movie much more enjoyable.

(33:14):
But then there's so much about the character too that's
so intriguing that like, you want to see more of
this guy versus Jason. Like my hope when I first
watched this movie was that we were somehow going to
get a showdown between him and Jason. That was that
was worthy of the build of this character.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Well, that must have been disappointing for you.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
It was, Yeah, it was, it was. But I want
to throw it back to you because do you feel
the same way about this character. Do you have the
affection for him that other Jason Goes to Hell fans.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Have Creighton Duke is doctor Loomis. If Doctor Loomis fucked
you know what I mean? Like, his charisma levels are
off the charts. I I love everything that that this
actor is putting down. I think it's actually a really

(34:06):
he's a perfect foil for Jason. You know, Jason is
this stoic, hulking monster and here you have this swagtastic,
flamboyant bounty hunter.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah I would.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
I will always be curious to see if if his
you know, if his bite was as mean as as bark,
because we don't get such a showdown. And you know,
in a way, maybe that's for the best, because remember
that that that poor sucker from the final chapter, who
you think is going to be a match for Jason,

(34:41):
the guy who's hunting for him, and then as soon
as they're paired up, it's like he's killing me. He's
killing me. It's like, okay, that that guy's chance of
being iconic has just been ruined. Yeah, newtered that character,
and and Duke doesn't have anything like that. Of course,

(35:03):
we know that there's a lot of stuff about his
character that did not make the final cut. You know,
he has a personal connection to Jason that audience has
never got to hear from this movie. I can't remember
if they did film this explanation or if it was
just like in the original script and was cut. But yeah,

(35:24):
he had a girlfriend who was who was killed by Jason.
That's why he he says, you remember me at the end.
But yeah, at the same time, I think there's another
character who doesn't get talked about nearly enough. But I
think he's a big part of what makes this movie work.
And I'm talking about the dork with his varsity jacket

(35:45):
and his coke bottle of glasses. Yeah, I dig him.
I like his addition to this film.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
I will say this, there aren't many characters in this
movie that I don't like that we're supposed to have
stock in, you know, Like, there are characters in this
that I I mean, all I really have to say
is tied up and naked. And you'll understand what I'm
talking about here. There are characters that I don't love
in this movie. But and and you know, performances too.

(36:18):
I think there's something that you kind of lose when
you have this hulking, you know, character who's whose you know,
sole purpose really is to cause chaos, and now that's
relegated to just some normal looking dude. There there is
a there's there's a value to that, but there's also
value being lost. And I think there's a couple instances

(36:39):
in this where I think it is lost that said, yeah,
I mean, like, dude, this character was great, and he
was great because he wasn't like fully your stereotype of
like he was almost in the middle of like a
nerd and a jock character. He wasn't super cool, but
he wasn't like the lamest guy ever. Not everybody's making
fun of him. He has a friend at the he's

(37:00):
at the police station, who you know, he ends up
having to to to dispose of later in the movie.
And there's just there's there's a lot of interesting things
with him. He could have easily just been a cannon
fodder character, but they they kind of made him mean
something to the story. He almost takes on like I
can almost kind of compare him and I believe he
was originally written to be Was he the character that

(37:23):
was originally written to be Tommy Jarvis in this.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
I think a lot of details about that are fuzzy.
I don't think he was literally intended to be Tommy
Jarvis in this iteration of the script. I think it
was more like a you know, early conceptions of this
movie had Tommy Jarvis. But if he had been to
Tommy Jarvis, I think that would have meant a lot
more to fans. But also I think would have you know,

(37:50):
the Tommy Jarvis saga is concluded and right, I think
bringing back that baggage to a movie that's trying to
have this clean slate, yeah, I think that would have
muddied the waters. Although there's kind of a bit of
a grown up Corey Feldman essence about this guy, like
I should clarify, not the.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Not the real of Corey Felderman, the Corey Felderman version
of Tommy Jarvis with like like Tom Matthews played it
played it well in Jason Lives, but it's clearly a
different guy.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
It's a very different guy. And I've always kind of
questioned why why he's such a fan favorite. Not to
put down Tom Matthews as an actor. I really like
him in Night Not Return of the Living Dead, right,
But my my preferred adult version of Tommy Jarvis is
actually John Sheppard from Part five.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I could see that. I think for me, I always
prefer it just because Jason lives is it's my favorite
of the Friday the thirteenth movies. I think it's I
think it's the best of them. So that's the kind
of the portrayal, and you know what I think. Also
part of it was Corey Feldman, and his version was
just it was. It was when I talked to people

(39:03):
about Friday the Thirteenth, while I was kind of getting
back into the franchise and rewatching everything, it was sort
of just like, oh, you must have missed something, because
that's the best one, and it's it's it's the greatest,
and you have to go back and watch it again
because you're gonna think it's the best Friday movie.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
And I just didn't.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
I don't connect with it as much as a lot
of people do.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Are you talking about the final chapter? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
The final chapter interesting, So so that version of the
character I wasn't as connected to. And then you know,
I I mean Part five is Part five. You know
that I'm not a huge fan of it. So yeah,
I think, you know, Tom Matthews, I think a lot
of people kind of fall into my camp where it's
like they have so much affection for Jason Lives that

(39:42):
they just kind of want to see Tom back playing it,
which is why they loved his cameo so much in
Never Hike Alone.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, I mean, I get I get it, I get
it on an emotional level, but I actually think Tom
Matthews is Tommy Jarvis is actually something that kind of
holds Jason Lives back nowadays. Oh really, Okay, yeah, I don't.
I don't mean to to ruffle any feathers here. I
know people have a lot of affection for that, but

(40:10):
they turned him into such a goof. I just really
have a hard time taking taking him as Tommy Jarvis seriously.
But that's neither here nor there as far as this
is concerned. Now, the interesting thing about this actor that
we're talking about and Jason goes to Hell, he is
technically a Friday the Thirteenth alumni. He was a lead

(40:32):
on that Friday the Thirteenth show that I have never
seen and I'm so sure what the connection to the
to the movies are, but I've heard that there is
is one very loosely, so I don't know. And was
his casting an intentional callback to that. That's something I

(40:53):
would like to hear an explanation for if that series
was can into this in any way own. I mean,
I'm asking for a little too much. Again, this movie
is trying to give a middle finger to all of that,
like all of those threads I'm trying to connect, you know, well, right, yeah, yeah,
we're doing our own thing.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Now.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
How do you like Jason being a baby brother? How
do you like the big sister thing?

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I don't like it at all, actually, I think what
it just feels. It just feels so unnecessary, like the
movie as a whole. And and you know, I sort
of both agree and disagree with people on this, but
this time it's stuck out more than other rewatches of
how easy writing Jason out of this movie really would

(41:44):
have been if you consider, you know, if you watch
the movie back, you'll you'll know what I'm talking about. Like,
you could have taken Jason out of this movie in
one rewrite, and and it would have been easy to do.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Who would have been going around killing people.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
It could have just been another You could have just
slotted in a new slasher.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
To what I was saying. They made a stealth, you know,
original thing, right.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, and that's okay. I want to make that clear.
You know, I'm not upset at the filmmakers for doing
something like that. I appreciate when people take chances is
a Friday movie? Does it fail? I'm gonna get into
that kind of as we continue talking about this, but
I can say this with with pretty I could say
this pretty definitively. The family angle was always going to

(42:34):
be the wrong way to go, and it added an
extra fantastical element with that knife that just was unnecessary
for the movie. I don't think it was. I mean,
if you want to add in a foil, I understand
the need to try to find something, but you know, again,
you're calling it a Friday movie, you know, to give
a little I just wish they would have put a

(42:55):
little bit more care into connecting it with something about
the lore of Jason Vorhees instead of just invent something
new that, truthfully, I didn't feel worked in the script.
Do you feel the same way about that?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I have more conflicting feelings. I think I leaned towards
your side of the argument. But Jason has always been
a family man. He's always been a family guy. That
a big piece. He's an absolute mama's boy, and the
idea of him being a baby brother kind of uh
enhances that. Although what are they half siblings?

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I think that's how they explained it, right, it's it's
Jason's it's it's his father's other kids.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, his father, who we were supposed to see in
this movie finally, but alast we he was never seeing.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
The original script. He was supposed to eat the heart, right,
that was like the original script was that he digs
up Jason and eats the heart and then he's the
one that starts that killing.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
So I think he just had a cameo at the end.
Unless I'm getting this confused. You know, I've read a
few unproduced Friday writing scripts.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Well, this was originally they got this so they could
do Freddy versus Jason, and then they shelved it, and
then that's why there's that not at the end of
the movie.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
You might be confusing this with the original script for
Friday the Thirteenth, Part six. I think Elias might have
been scripted to have this cameo at the end of
that that they cut. Yeah, fact checkers, the people at
CNN can.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, as as as the audience can tell. We've never
We've never been fact checkers of ourselves. We just kind
of say things sometimes. That's kind of the nature of
our show. We just say we're just white men with
microphones who say shit. Not out of the norm of
most podcasts.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
We don't have plans. We have concepts of plans, all right.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
We have concepts of notes. We don't take real notes.
We have concepts of oats and research.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
But yeah, this whole thing about about this new sister,
this this Lori stroade that they've thrown in, what I
kind of like is the red herring of it all,
because yeah, you think she's gonna be Lori Strutt, you
think it's Jason Laurris Strutt. Yeh, it's not that. It's
not that. Again, the movie does defy your expectations. If

(45:09):
they had literally gone for the Halloween two thing that
would have that would have is that really poorly with me? Probably,
But but I almost like that they that they kind
of baited you thinking that they were gonna go with
this cliche, and I mean they still do, but but

(45:30):
they again they bucked tradition.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I want to highlight at this point the effects in
this movie. You know, we talked about some of the
kills Razor comparison. I don't think I don't think we
talked about this enough. And I want to make sure
that I highlight this for people who are are unfamiliar
with the movie and don't really care for spoilers, or
or I mean don't really care about spoilers, or people
who have seen this but you know, maybe you're considering
going back to see it. Of course, you know we've

(45:53):
we've discussed it before. Jason Vorhees is not necessarily a
visible character through the movie. He's more of a he's
using these these people as sort of a conduit or
the or you could some argue that it's the parasite
that infects Jason and makes him the way that he is.
Either way, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Here to arguing the heart is Jason and the body
and the hockey mask were just the vestige that he
had been using up to that point, right, and that
is something that that is a logic. Fucking Molotov cocktail
that never gets resolved like that just lights the whole

(46:30):
concept of this character and just walks away from that explosion.
But yeah, that's the idea that that the heart is
ja boorhees and uh, the body he inhabited, you know,
he could have discarded, which is interesting for a deformed character.
He could have been good looking this whole time. He

(46:51):
could he could have found a handsome gentleman shaved him down.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, well he did. He did shave somebody down at
one point.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
But one of the most controversial scenes, and I think
that's that is the kind of thing that will stop
people from ever giving this movie a reappraisal. I think
that's the exact type of thing that's gonna stop it
because unfortunately, there's I mean, homo eroticism in a Friday
the Thirteenth movie. I'm here to see boobies.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
And you know, like it's not even it's not even
just that it's I think it's also just the strangeness
to which they come up with, like how they like
so So for those who have never seen this and
don't really care about the movie being spoiled for them,
or people who might be shaky on this having seen it,
before basically, after the corner at the beginning of the
movie eats the heart, he is effectively he's he's effectively

(47:45):
Jason boorhees now just as this corner guy. And so
he kills a bunch of people and then it's it's
sort of alluded to. I guess that, like he can't
stay in another body forever because he has to keep
transferring it. He really hasn't been too injured, but he
he finds a guy and he basically how he transfers

(48:09):
once the heart is eaten is by sticking his tongue
down another person's bro.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
What he needs to do is he needs to find
the body of another vore he is to inhabit so
that he can be.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Well right, yes, yeah, And so he he starts in
this coroner's body, and then he goes into he as
the corner shaves this man who is in a bondage.
He's tied up in this bondage contrapment. Uh. And then
and then he makes out with him where's the face
off of him? And becomes him. Uh, then he becomes

(48:42):
I think from there he oh, it does it go? It?
Does it? Go? Right to the to the television guy
after that, so.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
They there's a whole plot from this slimy television reporter. Yeah,
he's dating the daw her of Jason's sister, so she's
Jason's niece effectively. And there's a sleazy reporter who found
the sister's dead body and he's going to put it

(49:13):
in what the old var He's house and bring a
camera crew to discover it. But then, oh man, it
starts to get fuzzy. I mean, let's let's not overstate
the importance of the storyline of the Yeah, p lot,
it's it's basically like a like a you know, where's Jason.

(49:34):
It's like where's Walda, where's Jason? Right? And he you know,
he takes many different forms throughout the movie, and at
one point one of those forms talks. So Jason has talked.
Now that is yeh Cannon, Jason Voorhees has broken his
vow of silence, just like h Tyler Tyler Mayne as
as Michael Myers did and in Halloween two.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
So probably she has much more story significance, but we
won't get it.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
That has a lot of story significance, and this time
it's it's it's like a misdirect because yeah, because this
cop comes out and he's like, hey, let her go,
and you think, oh, that guy talked. He can't be Jason,
because all of Jason's forms throughout this movie have have
been new.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
They haven't talked, right, with the exception of grunting, but
that's a Cane Hodters version of Jason.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Any that noise. Literally that the big black mark I
have against this movie personally is I hate the fucking
sounds that Jason makes in this movie. And it's weird
because I really like when Michael grunts as he kills
people on the rob Zombie movies, especially Halloween two.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yeah, but it's it's different, Like it's very different. It's
you know, this is this is something that I think
a lot of people could potentially bring up in arguments
for this movie, is that they'll probably use that's common
in horror discourse. They'll bring up another franchise in another
movie that did it worse.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
And I understand that it's like political. It's like, right, yeah,
politician you don't like, and then you and then you
counter example with like, oh, but like you like this
politician who also did a thing.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Like that, And you know, I'll say this like this movie. Okay,
this is gonna be controversial. I think Caine Hodter, I
believe physically is one of the better versions of Jason
Voorhe's I can, I can. I can sympathize with fans
and say that much. And I think he's a swell person.

(51:28):
From everything that I've learned about the guy, it seems
like he's very nice to everybody.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I've gotten to me Kane briefly, wonderful. Guy was very
gracious and chatted with me for a few minutes. So yeah,
obviously he's earned his place in horror history. Yeah, but
I guess the idea that the conventional wisdom is that
he is the best Jason when I don't agree with it.
Derek meers out there, I mean Derek Mears.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
I forget what is the name of the actor? Was
it was it C J. Graham and Jason Lives.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
I'm not huge fan of that portrayal.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I understand that Jason why people don't like that, But
even Ken Kerzinger, I like him better.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
You like Ken better. That's because Ken was Caine's stuntman.
I believe.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Oh okay, I wasn't. I wasn't aware of that. And
I believe it. I I I just think in.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Part eight he's one of the he's this random bartender
that gets that gets like crost or by Jason. So
don't quote me on him being the stumpman, but I
know he I think he is a stuntman and he's
worked with Kane before.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
But either way, big dude, big guy, very big guy.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
But my favorite Jason is still Ted White from Part four.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
And I can get that. And by the way, you're
not alone in that. You know, if people don't like Kane,
that's their guy, which makes sense.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
No, Ted White is the only Jason that has scared
me like his Jason intimidates me, even though he's not
the biggest guy, and it's you know, he was like
fifty four when he played Jason, but like that's that's
the most menacing Jason to me still to this day.
What people probably like about Ken, not Ken, sorry, Kane

(53:15):
canan Ken. I'm Jess Kane. What they can to believe
associate with Kane is that he played Jason at the
moment when Jason finally broke through the mold of being
you know, just a masked killer in the teenager movies
and now he's like I compared him to the Muppets
when I wrote about him in Dread Central, Like, I

(53:37):
think that's like the kind of Mount Rushmore level of
pop culture icon that Jason was for a long time.
His star is fading. Hopefully they make another movie with
that guy.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Now we'll just we'll just put out some vague Jason
Universe posts and then put him in the WB multi
Versus game behind a paywall. That's all. That's all we'll do.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Hey, we might finally get that Crystal Lake TV show. Yeah,
well might. I'm not holding my breath. But you know,
Caine is he played Jason in the Arsenio Hall interviewed,
the famous Arcinio Hall interview, and I think that's like
a real tipping point moment for the character. So that's
probably what people associate with Cain, what his tenure meant

(54:21):
for Jason.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Not literally, I do think he was great in The
New Blood, Like, I think that's my favorite portrayal of
Jason in the franchise. If I'm being honest, I'm.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Biased because he is one of the best looks as Jason.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
That's where most of where it comes from for me.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeaheah, did I say that Jason here has my favorite look.
Is I need to correct myself. You did you did?
I that that's that's new Blood erasure, So I need
to correct myself. That's my favorite look. This is this
is my second favorite.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
I would say new Blood is one for me. And
then honestly, I kind of this is going to be
controversial again. I kind of like the look from the
before Uber Jason and Jason X.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
That's cool, that's fine. I liked his scraggly yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
I like how it there's this like I don't know,
there's there's something about the look that they did enough
different that I just appreciated a lot. But I do
also really like I think fans what they call him
home depot Jason from Jason Lives. I can even appreciate
that one a lot.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
So Carp Jason. I'll say this because he's playing a
resurrected Jason, so the.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Right I know, that's funny. I don't know. I think
he's got one of the best consistent looks of any
of these killers. I mean, like you could make the
you know, you could say like Freddy Krueger, but you know,
it did get a little a little faker as time
went on, especially in like four and five MTV era

(55:52):
Freddy Krueger.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Not to provoke you, but compare Jason with the gentleman
that you have there on your shirt. I get it,
especially from the movie that you have on your shirt,
and I think that's a pretty.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
I got a hot take about that too, but that's
changed over time. But I know, I totally get what
you're saying. Like, you know, like one of the things
that that bothers me the most about Michael Myers is
like you you had a template with the first two movies,
and I know the second movie, the mask looks different.
I even though it's the same mask, it just fits

(56:24):
the guy differently. And that's cool. But like, even though
I have affection for the masks in several of the
other movies, I I just don't understand why you deviate,
you know, like that only that only will serve to
hurt you if you don't have the continuity of the
look of the character. Now for it makes sense, right,
it's not the same mask, Okay, cool, you want to

(56:45):
make it look a little bit different, make it look
a little bit different, But the fact.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
That a little well no, but it's just the fact
that the Department.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
It's the fact that you go from four and then
you go, Okay, well the mask doesn't look great, But
then they redo it in five, and then they redo
it in six, and then they redo it in h twenty,
and then they will like four masks, Yeah, and then
they redo it in Resurrection. And just because those masks
might look good or they might not look good, depending

(57:15):
on your taste, it hurts your franchise as a whole
to not have that as continuity, because that's your guy,
that's your character, That's that's what they surrounded it by.
So I appreciate that Friday the thirteenth didn't deviate too much.
They just sort of continue to evolve it.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
If I have a challenge to that statement, it would
be that I think fans actually do like being able
to debate the different looks of these.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I think so. I think so, But you would you
would you agree that as a whole, like the identifying
version of Michael Myers, it's hard for anybody to even
debate that it's from the.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
First from the from Home, Yeah, the CGI mask for the.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Resurrection, the Resurrection mask. But when Busta Rhymes is wearing it, no.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Uh no, I I know I agree with that, but
I think because you got the purist who who accept
the first movie as canon and you know, disregardless. But
I think for people who are fans of the franchise,
which I think is a very different type of Halloween fan, really,
that makes you a different type of fan in general.

(58:21):
Like for me, yeah, Star Wars purist, I like the
original movies, and even then I only like some of them, So.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
You know that we're not even gonna get into that.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I'm categorically a different kind of fan from somebody who
still goes to see these fucking movies and watches the
shows on Disney. Plus, yeah, I'm a categorically different type
of fan. If I am a fan, I might I
might not get to call myself a fan then. So yeah,
you got to also remember that there are different pockets
of fandom.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah, and I'll give it to Halloween two in that,
like it's not necessarily like like both both of these
franchises had a little bit to play with if you
just stick to the basic premise of Michael Myers it's
a dude in a white mask, and Jason Borhes it's
a dude in a hockey mask, you know. So I'll
give them that there was a little bit more flexibility.
But that that said, even though I am a Halloween fanboy,

(59:12):
even though I am a Halloween apologist at times, I
think Jason Borhees overall, from from i'd say the third
movie all the way through to even the remake has
had has had the best consistency with how good the
look is.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
And I actually like the baghead from part two.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
I like it too. I just think it, uh, I
think for consistency purposes, like Jason took off with the
hockey mask, like that's the one that I that that
everybody so. So I even though I appreciate two and
the beginning of the remake, I will say that from
three on it was iconic.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Going back to the band metaphor, specifically the Nirvana metaphor,
it's like, obviously, like you know, the lineup with with
Dave Grohl, that's the iconic lineup, that's the lineup behind
Nevermind and in Utero. But some of us remember Chad
Collins and some of us remember a little LP called Bleach,
So it's kind of that same kind of like like

(01:00:13):
you know, uh know, claim to some kind of hipster
points or or cool points.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, my dad's gonna love this episode with all this
Nirvana talk.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
But hell yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
But getting back back to Jason Goes to Hell, we
were what we were trying to say, I think was
was we were trying to basically lead to that there
are different people portraying a Jason Vorhees and we see
of kills, all of which there is not one in
this movie. In my opinion, that that is weak in
the effects department, maybe conceptually weak, depending on what you

(01:00:50):
want out of a Friday the thirteenth movie, out of
a Jason Vorhees kill, and it doesn't have the same
sting that would I believe with a Jason Vorhees like character,
especially with some of the hosts bodies that host Jason's
heart or soul or whatever you want to say. But
the effects are fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Yeah, I get that. It deflates the effects for a
lot of people that these kills are being done by,
you know, some middle aged character actor and not Jason Fordy.
You know, I get that. I think they actually try
to be very smart about that, because like the the
kills that have lingered on in people's memories, the strongest

(01:01:30):
like that that that kill where you know that girl
gets ripped in half. You will even see the actor
playing the coroner. From what I can remember, all I
remember is saying like marveling and being agast at the
effect that they accomplished there, right, and then you have
a different type of effect here that that to me

(01:01:53):
is such a high note for this movie. Like the
scene where that body decomposes, it melts, it's incredible that
that is something I would put on par with with
classic Hell Raiser.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Oh anything, the Thing, I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Will put it on par with the Thing, right. I
think it's in that conversation, and this is sort of
a last gasp of of practical effects, not just the
fact that they're being used, but that they're being used
to create really new like they're they're being used to

(01:02:33):
to realize some really out their ideas, you know. I
mean the thing about the the thing about the Thing,
the thing about the things effects isn't just how good
they are, It's it's that they're being used to realize
such fantastic ideas, like how did they come up with that?
Now this is to a lesser scale and just write Hell,

(01:02:54):
but a similar kind of principle to me, like, yeah,
it's it's cool to have like great effects when when
you see a chick get ripped in half, Okay, like, oh,
something we can admire. But to go the extra step
and imagine something fantastical that couldn't happen, you know, to

(01:03:15):
make the human body decomposed in an impossible way, is
a different type of magic to me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
I mean, you're absolutely right, and it's something. Now I
want to throw something out there. I thought of it.
This is the first time I thought of this. I
thought of it while I was watching the movie last night,
and I've seen this movie a few times. This was
the first time I ever thought this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Do you so?

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
The melting thing, I think we can both agree was
a great idea, right, looks great. Shouldn't there have been
a sort of like I don't even want to call
it a subplot, but shouldn't there have been something introduced
where like Jason's host body starts like taking his form
and starts like deforming to make sense of why he

(01:04:04):
would continue to but like, I know he's searching for
the vorheats person, but like, if we're already doing the
supernatural thing, like he should already know who that is,
so so the the reason of jumping host bodies would
be a if that host body was you know, destroyed
too much, like you know, the reporter. They just beat
the absolute shit out of that guy. But like, wouldn't

(01:04:26):
it have been kind of more interesting to like have
the body start to melt while he is still in there,
or you know, maybe it's decomposing, maybe it's starting to
change form to look like Jason, like something to make
it make a little bit more sense. Do you think
that would have helped it at all?

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Oh? I really don't care. I mean, I don't weigh
that as well as I watched this movie. Are you right?
You know? Yeah, you're right, you win, you win the
you win, I just I'll take that to me. The
the more question is if he can possess a dead boar,

(01:05:05):
He's why did he wait until the end of the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Yeah, he had heard the point dead.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
To right, literally dead, and he you know, kind of
walks away from that, probably because he's like, do I
really want to crawl up the vagina of my sister?
Like I want to be reborn that way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Like it's like, I'll tell you this much. If somebody
watching this has never seen this movie, and our conversation
before right now has not deterred them from watching it.
I think what you just said there is enough for
them to go I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
What, Yeah, what happened? I know what you're in for, babe,
Like be ready, Like I'm not. I'm not going to
try to trick people into watching this movie. Like sometimes
absolutely beat around the bush when they advocate for for
weird movies like this. Yeah. I'm assuming though, the people

(01:06:00):
like you know, if you've watched this part into the podcast,
I feel like you must have seen the movie or
be more familiar with it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Or at least, yeah, somewhat familiar with what is going
on with the movie why there's a discourse about it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, so yeah, hopefully I'm not. Hopefully I'm not spoiling
the movie, although maybe you should be prepared for that.
I'm glad I was prepared for that. You were you
prepared for you emotionally ready?

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
So dude, no, Like there was so much like laughter
and like, what the fuck's through laughter when I was
first watching this movie, Like, nothing can prepare you for this,
And it's why I'm like sort of like if somebody
came to me right now and was like I saw
it in theater with no context and I hated it.

(01:06:48):
I'd be like, that's totally reasonable, Like like, this movie
is a shock to your system. It is a it
is weird, it is out there, and it doesn't stop either.
Like the movie has some slow down points, but it
still doesn't stop just being weird and making weird decisions.
Like even during a slower point of the movie where

(01:07:10):
you know, our nerdy kind our nerdy kind of guy
gets put in jail for the assumed murder and he's
in a cell next to Crichton Duke who breaks his
fingers in exchange for information, and then there's like this
weird whispering thing that he does and he's like, I'll
give you this one on the house, and it's just
you're like, what the fuck is going on? And then

(01:07:31):
it it doesn't stop there. There's one scene from every
part of this movie that you can say, what the
fuck is happening?

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
If you don't know if he functions better than I
think you're kind of portraying it functions, well, Yeah, that
that whole exchange between them, I thought that was great.
I thought it made perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
I thought, oh, dude, it works. It's just weird. I
think it just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
It's weird. But I think I have this issue because
so many people talk about that scene like it's on sense,
like they like what what? Like none of it makes
any sense, Like the characters aren't making sense, Like to me,
if you just like by this point, I imagine a
lot of people are just like not even like giving
the movie a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Oh yeah, for sure, they've checked out out. Yeah, so
like I can say the least.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
But if you're if you're in for the ride, like
I am, like that that's a very satisfying scene. It's
like the kind of the you know when the hero choose,
you know, chooses to accept the call right in the
hero's journey, you know, their position with with the call
and they they're forced uh or have to choose it,
you know, through some tests. And that's also you know,

(01:08:37):
Creighton Duke is not in the movie a lot actually
after the first act, so that movie is also like,
to me, his standout scene. Oh yeah, I think he's
already made a pretty powerful impression. I think that's his
that's his big scene.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
And he had disappeared for a while up until that point, like,
you know, we see him in the beginning, first time
we see him as a terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Little bounty hunter. He is terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Oh yeah, job, Oh yeah, for sure. He does get
to punch out the director of the movie, though, which
is pretty cool, uh, in that in that jail sequence.
There are a lot of cool sequences in this. I mean,
you know, we we we've kind of glossed over a
lot of the middle of the movie. But it's not
for lack of care. I mean, most of it is
just you know, it's it's the story is interesting, you know, with.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Thes are interesting. Yeah, which is different. I like and
I care about this goofy goober, this jacky nerd, especially
him trying to reunite with his with his ex girlfriend
and their their love child. I thought that was very
sweet and for a movie in a franchise that had
been dogged with accusations of sexism, and I'm not here

(01:09:47):
to debate the merits of those accusations. I think there's
a lot of you said there watching a movie that's
essentially about some kind of crisis of masculinity that has
to be resolved. You know, this this this guy, we
don't know much about their history. But he, you know,
his girlfriend left him, took the kid with her, and
now she's with this much more powerful and archetypally eligible

(01:10:15):
bachelor of a man. So yeah, the fact that this
movie is about that and not just about getting the
chance to see young naked women being terrorized, it's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
You do get your fair share of that, though, you do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
I mean, the movie starts out with that. It's almost
like like here, here's a little treat, you know, like
trying to probably buy some good will dude.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Honestly, I think this sprinkles it through the movie better
than any other Friday of the thirteenth movie has. I mean,
like you get the beginning right, and it's it's a
little nudity, right, and then you get that absolutely graphic
sex scene in the tent, and that's I mean, aside
from like the you know, the bond dude, and uh,

(01:11:01):
you know, maybe a couple of other things here and there,
that's really attention.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
To the movie right right outside. It's a little more tasteful,
a little more tasteful in this and its tastelessness, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Yes, yeah, absolutely, that's a good way to put it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
It's no longer about pandering to a specific group of people,
and and it's kind of like an equal opportunity sleazy movie. Yeah,
and that's something that me and Adam talked about. It's
you know, I asked him point blank, like why did
you put that homo erotic shaving scene in there? Which
is a question I'm sure he gets a lot, but yeah,

(01:11:37):
you know, you know, all these years later, I'm wondering, like,
how if he's going to be any more kind of
candid about it. And what he said was interesting. He said,
I put that in there because I knew that thirty
years later people would be asking me why I put
it in there. And he doesn't know this audience or what.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Man, I don't think he's he's one of those guys.
And I haven't gotten a chance to see his is
most recent direct directing outing with with Secret Santa. I've
heard fantastic things from the people that I know that
have seen it as far as its quality for you know,
low budget filmmaking. But you know, and I'm not just

(01:12:16):
saying this because he's he's a guy who never seemed
to forget my birthday. I'm saying this because he's a
guy who I believe is both a benefactor and a
victim of having a movie that dared to do something different.

(01:12:37):
I think anybody who dares to do something different in
a franchise or in a genre or anything like that
can be in one of those camps or both of
those camps. I think he's kind of somebody who's in.
I wish it hadn't potentially hurt his career as much
as it has. Like, the guy hasn't had a lot
of directing credits in his name after this. This was

(01:12:59):
ninety three, very early, and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
He's been doing a lot more independent stuff. But you know,
I mean, yes, you know his career. I mean he
he worked on a Texas chainsaw sequel. Yes, he did
legacy sequel and that was that was a you know,
big success at the box office. No matter what you
think about that movie. Oh yeah, so yeah, I don't
I don't feel bad for the guy. I mean, he
was like a kid in a candy store. Most people

(01:13:23):
don't realize this. He was twenty three years old. He
was younger than us when he made this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
I think he was. I think he was only twenty
one when they like signed him on to the movie.
And yeah, so he was even younger when he became
a of Sean Cunningham.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Yeah, by the time they were in production, he was
twenty three, so he would have been younger when they
signed him on Unbelievable thing. He is a kid in
a candy store. And that's the thing. Like Jason borehe's
you know, as a fan, he's like this coveted figure,
but when you're a filmmaker, he's a toy. You know.
Michael Myers is a toy. I want to play with
my toys. Had to play with my toys.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
As a good point, Yeah, somebody who's who's written scripts
for franchises and and tried to send them off. Uh,
that's part of the fun is doing, is making your
own mark with the character. You know, you want to
pay tribute where you can, and I believe that they
did in several aspects of of Jason's short appearance in
this movie. But that's the fun, you know, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Yeah, speaking with your own stamp on it. Speaking of
Jason's appearances, should we talk about the last ten minutes
of the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
I think we should. Yeah, So Gabes aforementioned, Uh, crawling
up the vagina of a sister.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
Happens okay, not my, not not mine. That Jason's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Yes, you brought it up. I'm saying you brought it
up Jason. Jason, the Jason parasite crawls up up the
the hua of his sister there and and uh. And
then we get his resurrection, full hockey mask and everything,
which I actually kind of appreciated because with the look

(01:14:59):
they sort of made his it was almost like the
mask was melting into his skin, it was becoming part
of him, which I thought was really really cool that
they did that. And and you know, he looked bloated
and decomposed, and that's how he comes back. So he's
pretty much exactly what we saw at the beginning of
the movie. And and we get a showdown. So basically,

(01:15:21):
for those who we didn't do this enough justice, I
don't think so. Basically, his niece now has a baby,
and that's how Jason is trying to rebirth himself through
one of them, because they're the only surviving relatives. And
there is this blade, this this fancy blade that that

(01:15:41):
is connected to them that she is to used to
kill Jason's as Yes, at one point, Crichton Duke throws
it at her. She catches it, and the same red
energy field things that we see go into the coroner
at the beginning of the movie are swirling around the blade.
So there's a significance there, and that is the blade

(01:16:02):
that she is to use to kill Jason because she
is the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Only one that can do it, because she is a
war He's, because.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
She is a varheys.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
Yes, yeah, so you need the magic blade and you
need to be a warhee's. I wonder the other would
have been fine. I think one or the other. Yeah,
just say that only a warheaves can kill him. That
seems simple enough. Don't know why we have to have
a magic blade. I guess just to you know, add
one more little magic nugget, because why not? I think

(01:16:29):
by this point the mood is like we're going for broke.
Why not? Right, there's a very little filter between the
ideas that seemed to pop into their heads. But what
made it into the movie. So they do stick the
dagger in him, but what precedes that is a very
boopy fight of the very lame fight. In my opinion.

(01:16:52):
Not a fan of this part of the movie. I
remember it very vaguely, like it's the part of the
movie that I really struggled to even likeses. You know,
I will fresh in my head just kind of like
leaves it. But that's not a struggle I have with
any other part of the movie. So yeah, that's just
that's the irony is that when Jason comes back, which

(01:17:15):
is like people are like, finally this movie is gonna yeah,
maybe he has a chance to be good again, that's
where it loses me a little bit. So that's again
me being out of the contrarian No.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
I well, I get it, and I think I can
even understand how a Friday A thirteen fan like, how
if they were already turned off by the rest of
the movie, that this would be the final nail in
the coffin, because I don't think it lives up to
what it needed to be. I mean, even even if
you want to throw the Jason character aside, Like, we
have all these characters that are supposed to be important,
and I think, honestly, the best, the character that fares

(01:17:48):
the best in all of this is that nerdy jock guy.
He's the one who takes the biggest beating. Arguably, he's
the one that keeps getting back up. He's the one
that he was like the final You know, he's right,
he felt like he should have been the crux and
the most important part of this, but ultimately he really
doesn't end up being that. I mean, he's more of
a foil. You know, there's always a character in these

(01:18:11):
horror movies after a while that's just like the guy
who distracts the killer long enough for the hero to
make the kill, and they never get appreciated like they should.
He fares a little better than a lot of them do.
But ultimately, after a lame fight where Creighton Duke's back
is broken and Jason gets knocked out a window to

(01:18:35):
zero fall. It was a ground floor window, she jumps
on his niece, jumps on his back, plunges the knife
into his chest, and he is dragged into hell.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
And that's where the movie gets good again.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Yeah, that was weirdly enough, and it's very short. I
wanted more from that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Too short. I wish actually that that could have set
the tone for the whole movie. I mean, I know,
it's like it's a similar thing to when Jason jumps
out out of the lake in the first movie. You know,
they saved the best for last. I think genuinely as
far as special effects go, like pretty fucking epic stuff.
Oh yeah, and in that in that brief uh, that

(01:19:17):
brief descent into hell, And they probably didn't have the
budget to do much like that throughout the movie, so
they saved the best for last. I will always remember that.
I will always remember Jason's mask is hockey mask, lying
in the sand, even before Freddy's hand comes out. I
just remember that this one shot. It was mystical. And

(01:19:38):
that's the quality about this movie that I'm gonna make
a comparison that doesn't make a lot of sense, but
but it's gonna it's gonna help me kind of explain myself. Okay,
I like I like this like a late stage Hammer
horror movie. So for people who don't really remember the

(01:19:58):
Hammer movies that much or no a few of them,
you know, the timeline of them is that when when
they first started making them, when Christopher Lee first started
playing Dracula, it was it was a bona fide you know,
horror slasher like a They were mean movies that really

(01:20:19):
had a lot of street cred as far as being
you know, returning these these characters to their roots, their
Gothic roots, you know, Dracula, Frankenstein, a few others. But
by the seventies, you know, they had jumped the shark
and Dracula was now man. Ah, there's so much good
stuff in like the back catalog of Hammer movies. Dracula

(01:20:42):
is in modern day London having fights with Van helsing
as like disco music plays, and people with all these
perms and these bell bottoms are like running and screaming
for their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
It was awesome, isn't that When they gave Jacula the
mustache too?

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
That was a different production. Star Christopher Lee is Dracula.
It's really funny. So Christopher Lee was hired by this
famous grindhouse filmmaker, I think his name was Jesus Franco,
portrayed Dracula in a movie called Count Dracula that was
a non Hammer affiliated production, and it was a straightforward

(01:21:20):
adaptation of the original book. I've never seen this film.
I haven't heard. I haven't heard that it's any kind
of remarkable thing, any kind of remarkable accomplishment. But you know,
people who are curious can can check it out. But
the thing about what these what this movie represents, is

(01:21:40):
kind of what the final hurrah of those Hammer movies
represent is like, Okay, we're having the time of our
lives making it, but let's be real like this, this
is gonna get old fast and we're going to burn
ourselves out. Let's let's end this on a banger, and
people aren't gonna know it's a banger until years and
years later. You know, I think, you know, the the

(01:22:04):
final like the I think the Seven, the Legend of
the Seven Vampires or something where where it's in Hong Kong,
Peter Cushion goes to Hong Kong fights kung fu vampires.
That stuff might have been embarrassing at the time, but
god damn it, don't take that away from me. You'll
have to take that from my old dead hands. And

(01:22:25):
that's how I feel about this movie. So very roundabout
way to try to sum sum it up, but it
kind of represents this like glorious excess that is wisely
coming to an end. Even though this isn't the Final Friday,
to me, it still represents the end of an era.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Yeah, and and you know, I think it's I think
it's a very fitting way to end it. Like the
ending ending. I don't mean like I don't mean the
last like you know, most of the last ten minutes
of the movie. I mean, like the last the last.

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
Few minutes, final beat, the final yes, yeah, with you know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
With Jason being dragged into Hell. I think it's an
amazing visual. I think it sets up something really potentially cool.
I know, for me, like when I saw the cover
of this, like I had already seen Mortal Kombat, Like
I almost expected most of a Friday the Thirteenth movie
in like that's in like that setting where Johnny Cage
fights Scorpion in the Mortal Kombat film, and slightly disappointed

(01:23:23):
that we never got that. But I know people would
have hated that too. You know, this movie goes out
with you know, Jason being dragged to Hell, our heroes
walking away from the scene, and then of course Freddy
Krueger's glove portrayed by Kane Hodter, and I guess he
plays three characters in this movie. His hand is the
one that reaches out and pulls Jason's mask, presumably into

(01:23:46):
Hell for the ultimate teas a ten year teas.

Speaker 2 (01:23:51):
Right, you got a note that presumably the Nightmare on
Elmstreet Movies that ended.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Two right, Yes, we had already had the final Friday.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Freddy's Dead came out a year or two before this.
I think A New Nightmare came out a year after this.
So just just a crock of shit all around, you know,
it's like the Final Friday, the Final Nightmare. Oh but actually,
let's tease you for a movie that's not going to

(01:24:20):
happen again, that it's not going to happen for ten years.
Ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Yeah, let's let's let's get into that real quick. So
Adam Marcus, after making this movie, and he's talked about this,
he and his writing partner who made this movie, came
up with a concept that was me that was supposed
to immediately follow this pretty much. I don't know if
it was supposed to be the next year or a
couple of years later, but they were going to make

(01:24:47):
a Freddy versus Jason. And the concept that Adam Marcus discussed,
I believe in a documentary was that basically both of
them would be in hell after being defeated, and the
devil would commission them to have a contest, and whoever
claimed the most souls for the devil would be able
to roam the earth once again in their prime form. So,

(01:25:12):
you know, Jason would go back to killing teenagers or
Freddie would go back to haunting nightmares, and basically it
would evolve into you know, them trying to or Freddie
trying to sabotage Jason because Jason's winning, I guess, and
then they go from there. That was the initial concept
that was supposed to follow up this movie. Of course,

(01:25:34):
we know what happened. We discussed with Cody Leech just
recently Freddy Versus Jason, which we both have affection for.
We both like that movie quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
I like that movie a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Is there any interest from you in that concept that
was supposed to follow this one? No?

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
And what I will say is that you cannot tell
me that this fan base, the fan base of either
of these characters, would stood for for the inevitable direction
that that movie would have gone in. Yeah, it is
just impossible for me to imagine that anything but the

(01:26:13):
smallest of cult followings would have would have developed for
that after this you know, mountainous backlash. I mean, Freddy
Versus Jason, a movie that to me is like scientifically
made to appeal to both Freddy and Jason fans, Like
you couldn't have made a more like perfect specimen of

(01:26:35):
a crossover movie to me, and that like you still
see people get up in arms like people like, yeah,
I feel like their guy has been misrepresented somehow well.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
And part of that formula too, I want to say,
is the ten year built right? Like I think if
we would have gotten Freddy Versus Jason immediately after this,
where we already have backlash over Freddy's dead and now
we have backlash over this movie, where is that going
to go?

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Maybe you're right, I don't know, but Okay, then you
got to imagine though, that people have rejected Jason Goes
to Hell and now they're gonna see the same guy.
As much as I love Adam Marcus, what he did?
You know in this movie that those fans wanted to
see this guy not only come back to do another

(01:27:22):
Jason movie, but a Jason versus Freddy movie, Like unless
they had put unless they put a leash on him
that would have tamed his most interesting instincts, So it
would have kind of probably flopped for me. Then then yeah,
you have a movie that's probably not going to make
many people very happy. That's the sad reality of crossovers. Man.

(01:27:46):
I think if if, if Adam Marcus, you know, had
a genie to give him three wishes. I would love
for one of those wishes to be to go back
and make that movie happen, because it would be a
really interesting thing to experience after the fact. But strategically,
if I'm like somebody who works at New Line Cinemas,

(01:28:08):
or even if I'm someone who saw Jason Goes to
Hell when it comes down in theaters, because I'm talking
a big game about loving big swings, but it took
me a little bit to warm up to something like
Halloween Ends, and that is that involves a character that
I don't have nearly as much affection for. So I
really don't know what I would have felt about this
movie in nineteen ninety three. So yeah, yeah, I'm just

(01:28:31):
gonna I'm just gonna say this kind of blanket statement
of like the whole like would should have, could have.
I'm happy with what we got in freet versus Jason,
and I don't I've never heard a pitch that made
me go like, oh man, we could have had that. Instead,
we're in the worst timeline. I haven't had that experience.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
Absolutely agree, and I think that leaves us with nothing
left to do but provide the audience with our final
verdicts on Jason Goes to Hell the Final Friday. So
we've had a great discussion so far. This is a
movie that we kind of mutually brought. I think both
of us have had interest in covering this movie, just
never got around to it, and here we are finally
doing it. Do you want to kick us off and

(01:29:12):
kind of give us your kind of final verdict on
this movie?

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Yes, I have made my feelings clear.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
I have compared this movie to hammer horror movies, to
Hell a Raiser, to all of these wonderful, eclectic influences.
And that's going to point in one verdict. For me,
this movie is a miracle to have happened. It might
be a glitch in the matrix. Again, it doesn't have
the right to exist, but I'm really glad that it does,

(01:29:44):
and to me, it stands above you know, many of
the films in this franchise that the people regard, as
you know, as among the best. You know, Oh god,
I would I would so rather watch this than Part three.
I would oh rather watch this than the original. You know,
I would so much rather watch this than even even

(01:30:06):
the remake, which is a better film in a lot
of regards, but doesn't hit the sweet spot like Jason
Goes to Hell does. So it's a it's a miracle
of a movie. I'm I'm glad it exists, and it's
it's it's the end of an era. It's the end

(01:30:27):
of a couple of eras all wrapped in one, and
it's a pretty glorious send off. And honestly, if this
movie had been the last time we saw Jason Vorhees,
if Freddy's hand pulling down the mask was something more again,
of a of a send off rather than you know,
a tease for a much delayed crossover, I would have

(01:30:47):
been happy with that. I really would have. So, I
have a lot of affection for this movie. I've heard
the criticisms, I've taken it into account, and again, unfortunately,
if you don't like this movie, science dictates that you're
a bit of a loser. I, however, am not. So
I'm gonna call this movie actually fucking great, wow, actually great,

(01:31:14):
actually great.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Wow, Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
I'm fired up too, Like talking about it makes me
want to rewatch it again, Like that's wow.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
That's how much goodwill I have for this movie, very
very surprised to see where we landed here. But I
guess I guess that means it's my turn to get
my final verdict. And this is a movie that has been,
I believe, unfairly judged for a long time. I think
it's still unfairly looked at upon by its attractors. I

(01:31:48):
think people have every right to not like what they
got from this Friday the Thirteenth movie. I get that.
I am sympathetic to that. With that said, this movie
is so entertaining. This movie is so much fun to watch.
It's not that long, so you're not sitting there forever

(01:32:08):
wallowing in this awfulness or anything. It's wild, it's out there.
There are some things that don't work. But I don't
understand how this all right. I don't understand how this
could be so hated. And Jason Takes Manhattan is hated,

(01:32:31):
but people would rather watch that movie than this movie.
I don't understand that shit at all. I cannot stand
Jason takes Toronto, I mean Manhattan, but I Vancouver. I
think Vancouver, my bad fucking Canada comedian. Yeah, those damn Canadians. Anyways, No,
I love Canadians. Anyways, what I'm what I'm trying to

(01:32:54):
get at here is this is not the worst movie
in the franchise. I do rank it pretty low, pretty
low on the franchise ranking because I do have an
affection for so many of the other movies in this
But I would rather watch this than quite a few
other Friday the thirteenth movies. And I think this is
the textbook definition for me of what this show is

(01:33:16):
all about. And so therefore I think it's an easy
not that bad this This is this movie is is
you know, I wish I could give it higher because
I have I have a lot of appreciation for Adam,
and again it's been very nice to me. But there
are ultimately some story things that I really don't think

(01:33:36):
work for the movie. I think the ending of the movie,
while it while it closes on a high note, much
of the build to that close is i'll just say,
slightly disappointing. So there are things about this that I
don't love. But first of all, one of the coolest
posters of all time. I mean, I remember seeing this

(01:33:58):
thing at Blockbuster as a kid, just begging to watch
the movie, and uh yeah, I mean, even to this day,
I think it's one that's worth your watch.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
Yeah. So for for folks who want to help support
a couple of white guys with the podcasts such as
ourselves just just two dudes with the Dream, then you
can head over to patreon dot com, uh, look up
that bad media and support us under a number of
tears and be offered some free stuff in return. Well

(01:34:32):
not free, because because you're essentially paying for it, you
are paying for it, you understand the transaction that you're making.
You get some perks, some perks, perfect word for it.
You get, you get exclusive content, you get merch, and
you get you get that warm fuzzy feeling of supporting
two independent thinkers on the internet, which is really priceless

(01:34:56):
when you think about it. So that's all enough? Is
that enough?

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Oh we have properly hoard ourselves out today. That was wonderful.
So yeah, that's that's that's all we have to hold
ourselves out with mister twice, would you take us home?

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
I'm Gabe, I am Connor. And when I think of
that bad media, I think of a little girl in
a pink dress putting a hot dog through a donut.

(01:35:33):
Just cut it, cancel the show.

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Jason Goes to Hell - A Refreshing Friday or a Cursed Sequel?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jason Goes to Hell - A Refreshing Friday or a Cursed Sequel?