Episode Transcript
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(00:28):
Well, folks, ladies and gentlemen, uh j d's and leentlemen. My
name is Connor, a k a. The Kong Godzilla mash up Shin Kong,
and I'm joined, of course bymy everyday illustrious co host, mister
Gabe. Tye Gabe, Ho areyou doing? This is the closest I've
ever come to being a wrestling enthusiast. Is talking about about the movie we're
(00:52):
about to talk about, and thiswhole yeah, this whole space of the
Monster v Monster, you know,the Horror Creature feature crossover events. This
is the only time I can imagineyou know, sitting sitting ringside rooting for
you know, King Kong to hitGodzilla over the head with a with a
(01:14):
chair or something like that, youknow. And I think this is this
is I think the most overlap youand I have had in that in that
region. Yep. Until I forcedready to rumble on the show. This
is as close as we are goingto get. And we, of course
are are talking about the not themost recent Godzilla versus cong which I believe
(01:34):
is also I believe it's also eligiblefor the show. Not one positive on
that, but we are talking aboutthe original attempt at at this legendary showdown,
the original attempt such a loaded word, such a a word coded with
antipathy. Well, well this isyou know. I like to say every
(01:59):
time we talk about a movie thatthe movie is interesting, and you know,
sometimes that's overstated. But I thinkthis one, I think I think
it fits pretty well because not onlyis this kind of like the first try
at something like this, I meannot technically not right, technically not So
there is a really deep history behindthis film and really brought that the whole
(02:22):
of the arena of monster showdowns,right. So, really the first one
of its kind is Frankenstein Meets thewolf Man in nineteen forty three. That
was a sequel to The Wolfman starringLancini Junior. There was an introduction to
horror, right, So if yougo back and watch our appearance on the
(02:44):
Sledgehammer podcast series, my first horrormovie, my first horror movie was,
in fact, Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman. A Really, I think it's a
great gateway to universal monsters, toreally that whole the whole space of creature,
features of makeup and prosthetic horror,if you want to call it.
(03:08):
Definitely all of the horror that's reallydefined my taste in the genre, but
just also as a as a steppingstone for what's led to a whole industry
of crossover events. Frankenstein Meets theWolfman pits the Wolfman with the frankensteigin Monster
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with very slapshot continuity. It's reallymore of a sequel to The Wolfman and
kind of pays lip service, Iguess, to the chronology of the Frankensteign
movies up until that point, butyou can't track it with the scrutiny that
people pay attention to these franchises withnow right, but that's the first of
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its kind. And then Universal actuallydoes a lot of crossover events with their
monsters. Right. They do Houseof Frankenstein that actually brings together, you
know, their big three, Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, and the Wolfman,
although interestingly they don't ever fight.They don't have a battle. They're not
they're ensemble cast in the kind ofThespian way, like they're all players in
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this drama, but they don't fight, which, considering the success that I'm
sure Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman was,I'm surprised that they never really want that
route. It was probably a budgetarything, or it was just a hassle,
you know, to to that ofthe stars they didn't want to they
want they didn't want their character beingweak. Well, it was really interesting
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and frankenzteim meets the Wolfman that youhave Frankenstein being played by a sixty year
old below Lagosi, who famously turneddown the role of the Frankenstein monster in
the original that went to Boris Karloffand uh Egos were definitely bruised when that
happened. And I think the factthat it is actors who are synonymous with
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these roles and not you know,in the case of Kaiju movies, it's
not anonymous stuntmen in suits. Ithink that probably plays a part of it.
But yeah, it takes a longtime before we get to this moment
of King Kong versus Godzilla. Now, do you know much about the history
behind this matchup? The really weird, weirdly Frankenstein laid in history of this
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matchup. This is where things getinteresting for me because I had seen this
movie before. Godzilla or King Congressis Godzilla, you know, not cong
versus Godzilla. No, I haven'tseen anything new so I haven't seen the
new one, but I have seenKing Congresus Godzilla, and I had seen
the subtitled version of this, soi'd seen the Japanese version. Of course,
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the version that we are talking abouttoday has to be the American version
because these versions actually above a threeon letterbox, and the Japanese version is
super obscure to American audience. Itonly just got an official release in the
States with the Criterion package of theshow on Godzilla. Yes Movies by Criterion,
(06:17):
Yes, which, by the way, check it out if you're a
big fan of Godzilla. I thinkit's It's anything by Criterion pretty much is.
You know, if you're interested inwhatever it is, it's worth the
money. Same with you know,error releases and things. You know,
if you see a movie you enjoythere, please pick those up. Physical
media needs to survive. But Ido just have to say I love seeing
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the Criterion logo come on before amovie like this. Oh yeah, like,
oh my god, the most prestigiousbrand in home media, you know,
welcoming you into a movie where aman in a very bad King Kong
suit shoves a tree down, godzillasthroughout. It's it's perfect. Yeah,
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but this but this almost was nota Godzilla feature. Godzilla almost wasn't involved
at all, which is kind ofinteresting because this feels more like a sequel
to the first like Godzilla film,you know, it brings that continuity in
of what happened to Godzilla, youknow, where he got vaguely frozen.
It's actually very reminiscent of franken Signmeets the wolf Man, where the Wolfman
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happens upon the franken Sign monster whois frozen and nice, which is is
and is not knt you know,continuous from from where we would have left
off with Ghost of Frankenstein. Butyou know, at the end of Godzilla
rates again he was submerged in aniceberg, so there is continuity there,
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although it makes you wonder why theywere, you know, why they were
venturing out there when it should bea matter of record, you know,
the latitude and longitude coordinates of whereGodzilla has and buried. You know,
you would think that there would bea you know, a red flag or
something around there. There were somuch in this movie that made no sense
(08:07):
within the world that it exists in. But this world almost wasn't what it
was it was almost King Kong versusFrankenstein. That was kind of the pitch
of what the script in this moviewas going to be. It's kind of
cool to see because some of thethings. I don't know if you've heard
about that script, but some ofthe things that were like it was almost
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like Kong, even though he wasgoing to fight Frankenstein, was almost like
he was pivoted into the Frankenstein's monsterrole for this as far as his like
equalizing power. So what I hadheard is that Toho wanted to make a
Godzilla versus Frankensteign monster movie. Andthat's the reason that Kong in this version
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is powered by lightning because originally hewas going to be the Frankenstein monster.
Now I believe that there was anotherconcept by Willis O'Brien, the man behind
the original King Kong, to havea King Kong sequel where he fights a
a Frankenstein creation. So I think, you know, there are a lot
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there's lots of legend and rumor wasfrounding this, but it sounds to me
like there were like two people wantedto make King congressus Frankenstein and Godzilla versus
Frankenstein. And when that reached Toho. Toho Studios, they saw an opportunity
to pit you know, two ofthe most famous kaiju in movie history against
(09:37):
each other. But Frankenstein, nomatter how the story played out, did
really play a crucial role in makingthis happen, a very crucial role on
both sides, because I from whati've you know, everything I've seen,
I think the script that Toho gotthat was reworked into this was a like
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cong versus Godzilla or not cong versuslike Frankenstein creature type thing, which is
really cool to see that kind oflike they're like both both monsters were going
to fight a Frankenstein esque being andnow they're coming together to fight each other,
and and not with some liberties beingtaken to make that fight, let's
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say a little bit more fair orbelievable. They had to they had to
stretch some things a little bit comparedto you know what goes from being able
to climb the Empire state building tobeing the the scale of the Empire,
Yes, state building, right,I mean, that's the only way an
actual fight between him and Godzilla isfair or balanced, fair and balanced like
(10:43):
Fox News. No. Well,and they had to give him well Jesus,
and they had to. They hadto give him, They had to
give him some we'll say powers aswell. They had to you know,
of course, Godzilla a massive giantcreature with armored skin and the atomic breath.
They had to give Kong his electricitypowers. Again, like clearly a
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holdover from a Frankenstein version of this, of this storyline, but an equalizer
in a way. I mean,you know, they do play it into
you know, Godzilla having a weaknessthat is electricity, even though it doesn't
bother him in the first movie.Uh, and then Kong being you know,
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being strengthened by it. Is.It's an interesting route. I mean,
I I H I will say this. I think both of these characters
work better fighting each other when theintention is to bring them together, you
know, in the story that's beingcrafted. I think, you know,
seeing trailers for Godzilla versus or forfor you know, you know, seeing
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that that trailer and being like,oh, this looks like it might be
a fair fight, and thinking backto watching this, it's like, oh,
it feels like less stretches are beingtaken, and it feels like that
because they kind of set it upthat way from the beginning. So you
have not seen the New Kong Godillacrossovers. I have not seen the verses,
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and I have not seen this NewEmpire movie. I was I'm very
interested in seeing them like this.The you know, New Empire from everything
I've heard, is like ridiculous,and I love ridiculous. It's not ridiculous
in the fashion that this movie isridiculous, which we get into, although
I did see that in the newone. Speaking of professional wrestling, apparently
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either Godzilla supplexes King Kong or KingKong supplexes Godzilla like a wrestler. They
do a wrestling move in the movie, which, hey, you know,
well, you know the fights betweenGodilla and Kong in this original movie are
very reminiscent of sumo wrestling. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna I'm excited to
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get to that point. But Ithink we, just like the movie,
should wait for over an hour oftalking until we discussed that fight. I
think that we need to have reallybad dubbing in the final recording of this.
I will spend hours re recording thisepisode just to duve over ours.
(13:22):
So we watched the American version,which was this really unique hybrid production in
the history of Godzilla, so toalso kind of set the stage for where
this movie is in the franchises ofboth of our titular monsters. This is
the third Godzilla and the third KingKong movie. King Kong had a sequel,
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Son of Kong that was released thesame year of the original, nineteen
thirty three. That shows you howquickly films were made versus the years and
years of development and production and postproduction that these flagship movies are spent on
now. And then Godzilla had theoriginal Gojira and then Godzilla Raids again.
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This is the first time these thesemonsters were shown in color. Although King
Kong has seen better days, thatpoor guy has seen better days and past
and and feature will we'll get tothat. But that also speaks to just
how monumental of an event this was, how much that these characters had evolved,
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and how how much of a footprintthey had on the culture. You
know, it had been like threedecades since those Duo of Conga movies came
out, you know, in theheyday of the Great Depression, and still
people like went out in droves inboth West and East to see King cong
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versus Godzilla. This was still amashup they were dying for. And Godzilla
was you know, quite young inhis in his movie career compared to King
Kong. He had only debuted sevenyears before this in nineteen fifty four,
but already he was so clearly theRolling Stones to Pong's, you know,
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the Beatles, that people still thoughtthat they had to see a fight,
a true duel between these these rivalingtitans of cinema, and you know,
who can blame him? I thinkI think that's something that everybody's interested in,
you know, even in the sportsworld. I mean, if you
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have two titans of you know,sports teams, people are going to tune
in when they meet. I thinkwe just saw that recently with the NCAA
Women's Tournament, you know, beingone of the highest rated basketball games period
on ESPN in its history. Peoplelike when when you know, to Goliaths
meet up up with each other,and you know, taking these two characters
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that were, I don't want tosay ahead of their time, but you
know they were they were sort ofperfect for their time. You know,
they were they were terrifying, youknow, pieces of history, and the
fact that you're putting them together,I think it's an incredible idea. I
don't know about again, I thinkit works better if this would have been
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a plan, you know, tostart with, so that it made a
little bit less sense to you know, sort of take as many creative liberties
as they had to. That said, it would make a lot of sense.
You know. I probably would havebeen one of those people back in
that time period who would have rushedto the theater to see something like this.
Yeah, and it was a hugehit. I think audiences loved it.
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I think fans of both Kanng andGodzilla. I mean, I don't
even think the liberties you're talking aboutwould have even like been on the radar
of fans back then. And theculture was just so different. I mean
I think, you know, mydad a huge King Kong fan, a
huge Monster movie fan. You know, he wanted to see this in theaters
as a kid. I guarantee youhe did not blink the fact that King
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Kong is now powered by lightning,right, And I think he sat patiently
through all the talking heads and allof the exposition scenes because that was the
structure that people were familiar with.You know, I think people are just
on a different diet and we havedifferent attention spans. Now. Not to
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make it sound like it like we'redumb for wanting more action from our monster
movies. I just think, youknow, because of budget and limitations of
special effects, that's you know,you sit through the movie, you get
kind of flashes of appearances by bythe monsters cameos almost until the last ten
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minutes, and that's when the rumblehappens. Of course, the I mean
the Monster Showdown was was a reallynew experien in cinema, right because the
only thing I can think of priorto this, other than obviously that,
like you know, the scenes ofKong fighting t rexes and stuff on Skull
Island. In the original cong theonly other president is really Godzilla Raids Again,
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which saw Godzilla have his first fightwith a fellow Kaiju, the Kaiju
Angress. But that was really moreof a side show to that movie.
It was Angerss being the underdog thathe is really wasn't a worthy rival to
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Godzilla. You know. They weresaving that, I think very wisely for
for an event like this of KingCongress's Godzilla. But this American cut that
we're going to talk about is reallyinteresting because it does what the original Godzilla
King of the Monsters rear at leastdid the Americanized version of the original Gojira,
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which is they decided to add scenesof American actors and recut the original
print, so they didn't just dubit over. They they refashioned it into
a new movie that would be morepalatable for Western audiences. Now, I'm
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going to say something that's probably alittle controversial. Maybe people think this sounds
a little ugly American, but Iactually, more than in Godzilla King of
the Monsters, I welcome it herebecause it really gives this the feeling of
being like a global endeavor, youknow, that that countries and cultures are
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uniting to produce something, you knowwhat I mean. That's not just something
that you know, another country kindof kind of exported to us. That
this is something that we came togetherto do. Which I'm sentimentalizing the movie
that has a lot of brown facein it, so I probably need to
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need to back off. But that'salso just something that you know, I
accepted as a kid when I watchedthis all the time. You know,
I didn't I didn't see the Ididn't see the uh, what's the word
I'm looking for the the stitching.I guess I don't know what there's a
word I'm looking for, and likealways, I can't find it. Well,
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you couldn't. You couldn't see theseams the seams, Yes, I
couldn't see the scenes as a kidlike I can so obviously see them now.
So I'm going to agree with whatyou said. Honestly, I kind
of wish that this was a morecommon practice. I mean, obviously,
you know, when American films arereleased overseas, you know, a lot
of times studios will put in thingsthat make more sense overseas. I mean,
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with the horror films of the twothousand. I don't know if it's
something that they still do today,but you know, there are some infamous
examples, or I guess famous examplesof you know, horror films that portrayed
certain color palettes in American audiences.But then that color palette doesn't mean the
same thing over in you know,Asia, so they would have, you
know, the color grading would bedifferent, so that the colors would be
more akin to what they see asyou know, the colors that mean danger
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or sadness or you know whatever else. And you know, of course,
voice lines. You know, sometimesplot lines are changed in films that go
from one place to another. ButI think it's really kind of cool when
we have a movie that you know, not only you know, are there
some changes to what's stubbed over oryou know whatever else, but you know
there it's there are also additions thatmake it more palatable for the people of
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Now some of it is just coddling. I mean, we open with this
news reporter who I think works outof the the UN newsroom. That has
always felt awkward, and it feltmore awkward this time when I watched it.
But it almost felt like like aBill Nye a type of type of
thing, you know, like likelike somebody has popped up to hold our
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hand and walk us through this bizarrestory. I mean yeah, And they
do something really cute where they bringin like these these scientist types to try
to explain the biology and the historyand the you know, they really my
wife, who was watching this withme, thought that they were trying to
give some kind of legitimacy to toyou know, kaiju science. I don't
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think that's what's going on. Ithink, you know, this is the
atomic Age. This is a periodwhere public curiosity about about the the horrors
and the wonders of nuclear energy isbeing fired up. I think they thought
Americans would just get a kick outof this kind of jargon, you know,
kind of with Star Trek. Ithink it's just there to kind of
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give a little bit of color andpepper this tale of fantasy with you know,
with jargon and lingo. That wouldhave really fired up the public's imagination,
you know. But I don't think. I mean, there's no way
to make this realistic or credible.And when you see the actual monsters and
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they're full of glory, I meanit's cartoon logic. I mean, King
Kong is transported to his epic fightwith Godzilla on these helium balloons, like
he's the house from up. Iwas literally, I have written down in
my notes, they just upped KingKong to Godzilla. Incredible. By the
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way, I laughed so hard ithurt. I was crying. I was
laughing so hard when that happened.And that's not I mean when we talk
about the actual fight, I mean, that's when this becomes like a farce,
which I'm saying in the most positivemanner. You could mean that,
right, And that's where I thinkI differed with a lot of the people
(24:00):
who go back to revisit this movieand cringe, they WinCE, and they're
like, thank God this was remadeso that we could see this fight with
you know, all these special effectsand this CGI and this moody lighting.
And I know I have seen thesenew cong Godzilla movies. You have not,
And I'm not going to spend awhole lot of time comparing them.
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I mean, they're just I seereally no point to that, but it
is it's a testament to what we'vecome to expect, or what we demand
from these types of movies. Howseriously we demand these movies take themselves right.
(24:44):
Yeah, I maybe this is alittle controversial. I think there's appreciation
to be had in both kinds offights. But I'll say I do kind
of lean towards today's modern CG monsterfights, not because of like the one
thing that kind of pushes me backtowards the side of the older movies is
(25:06):
that I think they try to takeit. I think I agree with you,
they almost try to take it tooseriously, where it's like I saw
the clip of the suplex from thenew movie, and I was like,
I gotta go see this because that'scrazy. That's what I want to see
from these you know, I wantto see, you know, effectively,
the video game Primal Rage. Foranybody who's an old video game fan,
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Primal Rage is one of my favoritevideo games of all time. And the
reason it is is because your giantdinosaurs and apes fighting and killing each other,
and that's all it is. It'sjust a fight for the purpose of
entertainment. And you know where Ithink that there's a lot of movies that
it would make sense to you know, make people feel emotions and that,
you know, if that's the pointof your story. You know, I'm
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not gonna discount that, but Ialmost kind of missed the days where you
just had two monsters fighting just becausethey were fighting. You know, they
were in the same place and theyboth wanted to fight each other. Because
that's that's what this movie effectively is. They both end up in the same
place. They have no reason tofight each other. There's no emotion behind
these creatures. It's just they're justkicking the shit out of each other for
fun. Well there, I mean, it is very animalistic. I mean
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they're territori. No, it's it'svery much like a primal you know,
it's primal rate. Yeah, thefight in this is is just a less
violent primal rate. So the plot, and by the plot, I mean
the excuse they came up with tomake these two monsters fight, which is
really fine. I like how transparentlyflimsy. This whole reasoning is. The
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logic is it's pretty shameless, whichI approve of, and there's some meta
value to it. Right, Sothere is a tell is he a pharmaceutical,
yes, tycoon, Yeah, pharmaceutical, and he wants he sends men
out to Skull Island now renamed PharaohIsland for some them to find this mystical
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monster who we know is kng toto give himself a mascot. H Am
I getting this right? So here'shere's where I'm a little confused, and
I don't know if I'm gonna explainthis right, but from what I from
what it seems like he says atone point that they're that not enough people
(27:23):
are watching their show. So Idon't know if maybe this pharmaceutical company has
some kind of program they're trying toget people to watch or trying that.
I think maybe they have a showin which they're trying to push pharmaceuticals to
people. I don't know, butthe idea is that this island. They
find out about this island because it'slike rich in a resource that they're looking
for for like, you know,their pharmaceutical company, but they're more interested
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in this giant monster that they canuse to sell drugs to people, because
when Godzilla resurfaces this this prick's mainconcern is to have a monster of his
own to fight Godzilla with ratings becausehe I guess, so this is where
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obviously, you know, this reedit really fails. I'm sure this is
much more coherent or at least muchmore straightforward in the Japanese original, even
though I bet it was kooky inits own right. But yeah, basically
it's a gambit for ratings. That'swhy they go to find Kong, which
is pretty true to the spirit ofthe original right where it's these filmmakers who
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go out to Skull Island to filma production and then you know, find
Kong and make him an exhibit there. It's about spectacle. Here, it's
about ratings, which was intended commentaryby director Ashiro Honda, who was the
director of the original Gojira, andhe would make many, many of these
show era Godzilla films. So Ilike that there is still this this satire
(29:02):
as an undercurrent, even though it'sreally obscured by the American re edits like
we're cutting more to footage of thisrandom American newscaster than our own protagonists are
are our main cast of characters.But that's that's basically what's going on,
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and that's all you really need toknow. Are there real protagonists in this
movie, Well, they're the twofellas that are sent out to the island.
I guess you could consider it theprotagonist. Protagonist is a strong word,
(29:44):
and maybe this is because they're notcelebrities to us, these actors,
but it does still keep the focuson King Kong and Godzilla. Like a
big problem that people have with theMonster Verus movies is, you know,
they're they're getting you know, Alist actors, They're getting high profile actors,
Alexander Scarsguard, Rebecca Hall, andthese actors don't want to they don't
(30:11):
want to play second fiddle to youknow, King Kong and Godzilla. So
and like Matthew Broderick in the original, it feels like they become the stars
and our titular monsters the reason thatwe're all there to see these movies.
They're actually side characters. At leastthat's that's the impression people get, which
(30:33):
is really not the oppression here atall. Even though King Kong and Godzilla
don't have them at screen time,they still have the spotlight on them.
They are still clearly the the reasonwe are here for this movie. Yeah,
it's I think it kind of throwsoff the balance a little bit,
(31:00):
you know. I think there's there'sa there's a happy middle ground between what
we get in movies now and whatwe got in or you know what would
just be effectively just focusing on themonsters. Though I think this movie goes
too far with it because it doesput the spotlight on the monsters, which
we want, but it spent somuch time with these other characters that at
(31:21):
that time just feels like extra longfiller, like it feels like we're just
spending we're just wasting time. Ithink there's a difference between not liking characters
and not wanting to see them onthe screen, which is the big complaint
we get a lot about. We'vegotten that complaint even in the movies that
people like about in these new inthis New Monster Verse, I mean Godzilla
from twenty fourteen. You know,people said that we spent a little bit
(31:44):
too much time with characters. Theydidn't hate the characters, they liked the
movie, but you know, Iwould have liked to see more Godzilla in
that. Okay, Kong Skull Island. Not a lot of people have a
lot of complaints about that movie,but when they did, it was about
some of the characters that they haveto deal with, Godzilla, King of
Monsters. That was the biggest complaintabout it. Why are we spending so
much time with all of these charactersthat we don't care about. Well,
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it's not just that we spend timewith them, is that we're asked to
invest a lot emotionally, and thatis a different story. Yes, yes,
which you might see these characters asfiller, I think they're I think
they're funny, I think they're likable. There are funny moments in this movie,
for sure, intentionally and unintentionally.Yes, although it has that Adam
(32:29):
West Batman tone, so it's hardto call it unintentionally funny. But I
do think that there was some thingsthat they didn't anticipate to be. I
mean, Kong specifically has to besomething that they didn't want people to laugh
at. I don't know, becauseapparently they were. The creative team was
(32:50):
directed by Toho to ramp up thecomedy, ramp up the camp value,
like they saw an opportunity for forhumor. They did not take this seriously
in the in the manner that Ithink we we think of that now,
you know, just like the hypewas there, but the but the you
(33:14):
know, treating this like you know, like like it's World War two history
or it's you know, something likemythical and and epic in every like meaning,
like every possible meaning of that thatwas not there, Like it is
a giant ape and a giant lizardfighting, you know, for what reason?
(33:42):
Who cares? Or what does thatreally matter? People might call that
dumb down. I I've learned toembrace that as really as as as a
respect to entertainment, you know whatI mean, like a respect to spectacle,
Yeah, and to humor and prioritizingthat over over substance, which depending
(34:08):
on what you're doing, could bemiscalculation or it could be strategically sound and
you know, and that's one ofmy biggest complaints about movies today. You
know, I remember a time whereI was like, man, you know,
like if nine to eleven has taughtus anything, it's that Oh boy,
no, no, listen to me. This will make sense in a
(34:28):
second, because because movies before nineto eleven, you know, there'd be
gigantic you know, explosions, buildingsbeing toppled, and it was like people
just moved on like nothing ever happened. And you know, I remember watching
movies and being like, man,like, there are probably people in those
buildings. There are probably you know, like these people have lives and now
they're just they're just gone because ofwhatever this is, and nobody focuses on
(34:51):
that. And then like a couplemovies came out and then like that's that's
what happened in them. I mean, one that I can remember thinking like,
oh, wow, they're actually sayingthis in this kind of movie was
when they did it in Batman versusSuperman. Not a great movie, but
I was I was surprised to seethem, you know, show the effects
of the superhero. That was aresponse to furious backlash from me. Yes,
yes, but seeing it, Iremember thinking like man, I hope
(35:15):
movies movies do this, and Ikind of hate that because now everything has
emotion every like. I don't needevery movie to be an emotional thrower.
I don't need you to try tomake me cry in every movie. If
you have two giant monsters fighting eachother. The last thing that I want
to think about is how anybody butour main characters and our monsters are affected
by this. And it's really interestinghow removed this is from the tone and
(35:38):
the stakes of the original Gojira,which is insane as grim of a monster
movie. I mean, it's nuclearwar in the form of a monster.
Yeah, and you know it isso personal to Japanese culture, Yes,
and only two movies later to seethat now become a vehicle for just popular
(36:02):
entertainment, right. It's it's somethingthat probably some people lament, But I
think Godzilla's value as as this belovedcultural icon, I think has become too
great for us to deny what thismovie did for his legacy there, and
(36:22):
I just I don't. I don'twant to live in a world where Godzilla
is only an omen of nuclear destruction. I like, I like all of
my Godzilla's I want Godzilla the herowho teaches you to not pollute and clean
up the earth. A lah,Godzilla versus Hedora. I don't know if
(36:44):
I agree with that. I knowI I really learned, because that's the
value that these monolithic cultural figures have, right, I mean, they're they're
open to interpretation, or they're opento adaptability. They're raw shack tests in
a way. And what the peopleof nineteen six or nineteen sixty three wanted
(37:06):
was not a reminder of the dangersof nuclear war, although I'm sure that
was still a back drop to theculture. You know, right after the
Cuban missile crisis, they wanted tobe able to return to this sense of
(37:28):
stability and normalcy and to be ableto enjoy their cultures and enjoy their lives.
And I think too, you know, as personal as a topic as
it is to you know, thepeople of Japan at the time that they
made the original you know, Godzillaor Gojiro film. You know, by
the time that this movie had comeout, you know, we're just kind
(37:49):
of, like you said, kindof heading off of like the most anxiety
filled period in American history as faras you know, the threat of nuclear
weapons. I mean, my wifeand I she just started the Fallout series,
and you know that kind of startswith this anxiety of nuclear war and
(38:10):
and of course, like the videogames. I'm not going to discount the
games. I've played the games,but I'm just saying, yeah, like
you know that that was a fear. And so I think there's a difference
between you know, kind of showcasing, you know, and reflecting what society
is thinking about and feeling of thattime. But I think there's also an
escape. And I think films fora long time, you know, since
(38:32):
they started, for a lot ofpeople, an important thing about watching movies
and television and you know, takingin plays and music is to escape from
what they're going through, escape fromand that does honor that does honor the
tradition of this medium too. Imean King Kong was probably the most pure
(38:52):
work of escapism produced out of theGreat Depression. And that doesn't mean it's
meaningless. I mean people have analyzedKing Kong and he has become a culture
with us. He's become a figureof significant cultural weight. So escapism is
not meaningless, right, It hasa soul to it, but it invited
(39:14):
you. Like this movie opens upwith a quote from Shakespeare that there is
more on There is more in heavenand Earth than is dreamt of in your
philosophy, Horatio. Now, littledid we know that William Shakespeare was referring
to the possibility of there being agiant gorilla and a radioactive dinosaur roaming the
(39:37):
earth. But as cheesy of away as that is to introduced that,
you know, this is about aboutour curiosity of the fantastic and our love
of the fantastic. So I justdon't see this as a betrayal in the
way that some people lament the latershow what Godilla movies to be. You
(40:00):
know, it's interesting because this isthe movie that cemented these as as stars
like these are movie stars. KingKong and Godzilla are not. It's not
a stop motion figurine, and it'snot a rubber suit like like. This
is Mickey mouse territory of of significance, of rich cultural significance, and I
(40:22):
love any movie that can do that, agreed. I do want to,
however, pivot to a negative ifno, because we've we've been throwing a
lot of praise at this movie sofar, and I don't think we've been
throwing praise at the movie itself.I think we've been throwing the praise at
the legacy and we've been building upa significance. Yeah, we've been.
(40:44):
We've been really kind of kind ofbuilding this up and and not not hyping
it up per se. But Ido want to say something about this movie
that I'm curious to see if youhave any agreements with here, especially with
this most recent viewing where I didn'thave somebody with me. I was just
watching it by myself and just gettingthrough an hour of nothing. You know,
(41:08):
it's like nothing, no, sir, pretty much nothing. We meet
an octopus, not a puppet,not a special effect, a real goddamn
octopus that that that son of abitch in that cong outfit had to wrestle
with. So there, it's notnothing. It's pretty nothing. It's not
(41:32):
nothing. It's pretty much nothing.We have total disagreements about the meaning of
the word nothing. It's pretty muchnothing, all right. A lot of
a lot of exposition, a lotof awkward scenes. Uh, you know,
of course dubbing, which I love, but you know, it just
it came to a point where there'sso much of this and then finally,
(41:53):
finally Kong and Godzilla are on thesame there, They're on the same island.
They're in the same place. Right, They're face to face relatively so,
after all this exposition, after allthis time, after everything that we've
we've been through, we have Kongand Godzilla. They are on the they
(42:16):
are they are nearly face to face. One of them is on a hill,
the other one is at the bottomof this hill. Okay, they're
they're facing each other quite close,close enough to fight. Kong let's out
as atomic breath and I'm like,oh my god, we're gonna get the
fight. This is great. We'rean hour in. I waited an hour
(42:39):
for this. This is gonna beawesome. And then King Kong runs away.
How sound like a layman right now, Connor, You sound like you
sound like like an amateur kaiju viewer. Okay, it's what happens, man,
It's what happens. It was soanti climate, like they couldn't have
(43:02):
found any other way to deter thesemonsters from fighting. Like, I understand,
you want to save it, eventhough we don't get the actual fight
until there is less than ten minutesleft in the film. You want to
save it. You want to buildit up for the end of the movie.
It's your main event, your grandfinale. I get it. That's
how you do it. What thescene does is position cong quite clearly as
(43:23):
the underdog, and that's what drivesthe anticipation up into actual suspense. And
here's an interesting thing about this moviethat people might misunderstand. So there was
a rumor that the Japanese cut ofthis movie had Godzilla winning, whereas in
(43:46):
the American cut, King Kong wins, although I think it's still rather ambiguous
as to at least what winning meansin this case, but he's the only
one who surfaces. Now, whatI think people expected is that the Japanese
(44:07):
would want their monster Godzilla to win, that he would want They want Godzilla
to vanquish this avatar of the AmericanEmpire in King Kong. Well, that's
really not the case. You know, the Japanese movie going public adored King
Kong. He was just as muchof an icon to them as he is
(44:29):
to us in the West. Andin the movie, the characters that we
are following are surrogates for the audiencein that they desperately want King Kong to
win, and there's a huge levelof suspense to the question of can he
defeat Godzilla? Nothing else in theirarsenal can stand a chance against Godilla,
(44:51):
not their toy tanks, not theirtoy airplanes, none of their toys,
none of the weapons they have inthe toy chest. Can King Kong defeat
Godzilla? And that first encounter wouldlead us to believe that he doesn't stand
a chance, really, not untilthey learn again that he has you know,
(45:12):
lightning powers. I don't know whatelse to call it. They're lightning
powers. See, But Okay,there's a few things that I'm gonna jump
in and kinda kind of push backon that because I agree with you in
principles. That's great, you knowagain wrestling fans, so I totally get
the idea of building up the underdog, right this guy's no way, this
guy's gonna win this fight. Butusing a little you know, psychology with
(45:35):
it, right, Like, wouldn'tit make more sense to have a brief
encounter between the two where Kong Konglooks more cowardly in this than if he
were to have just been like,you know, he comes up on Godzilla.
You know, maybe he like youknow, narls up to try to
fight him and then Godzilla just smackshim down, and Godzilla's or King Kong's
(45:58):
down, and Godzilla just moves onlike Kong's there. Right, something like
that would make a lot more sensethan just Kong running away. Sure,
Kong's never seen anything like that,but he fights monsters on Skull Island.
You know, that's the whole idea, right. So the fact that this
meeting is so anti climactic and thenleads to one of the in my opinion,
(46:20):
a very dumb decision, because okay, so the electric powers and all,
let's just completely get rid of thefight for just a second, right,
Let's get rid of the majority ofit until we get to the end,
okay. And the reason I wantto do that is I want to
ask you, how does this fightend? How do we end with the
(46:45):
two of them diving into the sea, falling into the sea? Where does
Godzilla come from? The seak?So as soon as they hit that water,
Kong is completely out of his element? Should should should Kong have really
been the one to resurface if heis completely out of his element? We
(47:07):
don't. It didn't make any senseto me. We get to we literally
end this fight in Godzilla's domain andhe loses. Well, we don't know
if he loses. It could bea draw. That's how I've always it
could be a draw. It could, But the way that they the Japanese
(47:27):
version, sure, I understand whyyou'd want to say that, because the
Japanese version ends with the Godzilla roar. You know, the famous Godzilla noise
that I love hearing so much.Well, then this movie's it's perfect for
you, man, because they donot stop playing that roar. I mean
that ar repeat, especially during thefight. Well, uh, you know,
(47:50):
I I love it. I guessI love it. When it makes
sense, I'll say that. ButI just thought it was completely ridiculous that
this version ends with Godzilla or I'msorry, King Kong standing up out of
the water and walking into the horizonwith no God Like I want this.
I want to know that Godzilla.I want to know that it's a draw,
(48:13):
Like I need to be spoon fedthat because right now, what I
believe with based on everything I knowfrom fights, maybe Godzilla wins the war.
You know, maybe they come back, they fight again, and that's
what happens, and you know,that's what I'm gonna be led to believe.
But what I'm led to believe rightnow is that the guy walking away
from the fight just want it.And that's what happens at the end of
the movie is Kong emerges and walksinto the sunset, and we don't hear
(48:37):
that Godzilla is still alive. Wedon't know that Godzilla is still alive.
We don't even know. We don'tknow what happened. We just know that
Kong is at the very least thewinner of this fight. Unless they landed
in the water and said, youknow what, let's the scar separate ways.
And I don't like that version either. It just doesn't I'm okay with
(49:00):
God's imagine that you're that that there'sa bar fright fight, right, the
two guys are going at it,destroying the whole place. What do you
do. You take a bucket ofcold water and you splash it on them
to cool them off? Right,Hey, guys, cool off? That
sobers them up. They're like,hey, I'm sorry, man, I
(49:20):
don't know what that was all about. It's okay, man. And then
what happens You shake and you goyour separate ways. I have a more
pacifist reading of this climax is whatI'm saying, I have this climax really
embeds me with hope that we canput aside our struggles, you know,
and settle things man to man forthe you know, for the hopes of
(49:44):
mankind. That's how I read thisclimax. But I guess you you have
a little bit of more of acynical edge to your analysis. And that's
okay, I mean, that's okay, cool man. I would have preferred
like, okay, I haven't.Look, I have no idea how this
fight would end, and neither doesToho. What would happen if King Kong
(50:07):
and Godzilla fought? How long wouldthat go? What could possibly be the
ending of that other than one ofthem killing the other? And no way
that's gonna happen. Nobody wants tosee that happen. No, But I
think if you, you know,if you give him some false hope,
like you know, let's say,you know, Kong finishes the fight,
(50:28):
you know, however you wanted tofinish it on land as how I'd prefer.
But maybe he throws King Kong,or maybe he throws Godzilla you know,
back into the ocean, right,he just tosses him back in and
then he you know, Godzilla doesn'tre emerge. Kong does the same thing,
walks back into the water, triesto go back. You know,
he's about to swim back to SkullIsland. Uh. And then as he's
(50:51):
you know, getting to the horizon, Godzilla emerges and and looks out into
the distance at Kong. You knowthey're both you know, that's the thing.
Yeah, the fight. The Americanversion kind of fumbled it a little
by excluding that roar, although theyclearly wanted to show Kong as the undisputed
winner, even though even as akid, again, I never read it
that way. I took it asa draw. They fought, they cooled
(51:17):
off. Now Kong, I mean, Kng doesn't really have a bead with
Godzilla. They're thrown together by circumstances. He just wants to go home.
That's his only mission. That andto get drunk off of that jamba juice
that those villagers keep fearing him.They turned my man Kin Kong into an
alcoholic brother brother. I say thisas somebody who is quit drinking. You
(51:42):
gotta get off the sauce. Theface he makes when he is downing,
I'm sorry, guzzling that juice afterhis fight with that octopus. It is
the perfect picture of in sobriety tome, like that is how all of
us feel after we've had one toomany. And you mentioned you mentioned the
(52:05):
face. Can we talk about thelook of King Kong now, No,
we cannot because it is terrible.That's why we need to talk about it.
It's the worst, man. Andlike I had some issues with some
of the scenes you know in theKing Kong movie from the seventies that we
covered, but oh my god,how can you even complain about that after
rewatching this overall? And I believeI said this in the episode, but
(52:29):
if I didn't, I'm saying itnow overall not terrible. At least they
tried. It doesn't even feel likethey tried in this man, this feels
like that episode is SpongeBob with withthe ape you know, where Patrick's in
the ape suit and then Patrick walksup and there's an ape in the Patrick
suit. That's what this looks like. First off, I still think you're
(52:49):
you're not being nearly kind enough toKing Kong seventy six as far as the
effects go, especially after watching this. Just think about the fact that King
Kong seventy six was only like adecade after King Kong versus Scott Tilla.
It's a big upgrade from this bigupgrade, And frankly, I still I
still say that I've never seen amore convincing, tangible King Kong put the
(53:15):
film mmmm, even like the CGIversions of him. Yeah, yeah,
I can't agree with that. Myeyes prefer prefer that that King Kong over
any Kong before or after. ButI can't. Yeah, I can't.
(53:38):
I can't quite agree. I'll say, I'll actually that's a personal preference,
but you cannot dispute the the factthat he is clearly the most the best
realized King Kong via practical effects.Through practical effects, I would probably agree
(53:59):
with that. I've always I've alwaysenjoyed the kind of claymation. No,
I love that stuff, but I'mtalking about like convincing, Yeah, sophisticated
again, fully realized. I wouldagree. I would probably agree. I
honestly like I kind of agree withthe original King Kong filmmaker that I don't.
(54:20):
I don't think Kng should have everbeen a man in a monkey suit.
I just I don't know. Okay, it works with Godzilla in a
certain way, because that's you know, they built, oh they almost built
that character to be portrayed by adude in a suit. But I don't
think it works the same way forKing. But the technique just wasn't sophisticated
enough yet. But I think KingKong seventy six and Hey Sai Godzilla films
(54:44):
our testament to how sophisticated those youknow, the suit mation stuff. God
I think I would put many ofthe Hey Sai Godzilla films against today's special
effects. I really it would.And again there's a certain I mean,
there's just a personal affection I havefor that art form. But I don't
(55:08):
know. I will always prefer aTom Savigni kill over over a CGI kill,
even though neither of them technically triumphthe other in terms of just,
I guess, credibility, but butthe but the creativity, the the imagination
(55:30):
of it. I just don't understandhow how a CGI doesn't leave somebody feeling
so cold compared to watching uh,you know, the the real thing.
I think there are times where CGIworks better, and I think there are
times where it doesn't. I'll saythis, like my favorite era of Godzilla,
I don't I think. I don'tknow if they call it the millennium
(55:52):
error or not, but it's it'sI love the nineties Godzilla films, you
know, I love. I lovethat's the heysay, Oh, that's hey
say. Okay, So the ninetiesGodzilla films I love. And it's still
a suit stepping on model buildings,fighting model airplanes. The concept was the
(56:15):
same, but you see how theymodernized it. Oh, they absolutely evolved
it over time, and and Ienjoyed that, like I enjoy watching that.
But on the other hand, Ialso, as we know, enjoy
Godzilla from nineteen ninety eight, andthat is a CGI monster. I think
there is a value to both ofthem if there was the use of prosthetics.
(56:37):
In fact, I think there weresome. Yes, there was some
prosthetic Godzilla is used in that film, right, yes, I think I
think more so for the smaller likethe Godzilla babies, basically like their answer
to Jurassic Parks, you know,raptors. But even the CGI got Godzilla
(57:00):
is is crushing miniatures, and youknow is is I mean, there is
the interaction practical, it's not it'snot a CG monster destroying CG buildings in
which is still a really different Uh, that's still really different to me than
you know, the Monster Verse andthe current Oho movies. Obviously I loved
(57:21):
Godzilla minus one for the reasons everybodyelse did, but I still lamented the
fact that a Toho Godzilla film isis uh, you know, scenes in
with Godzilla are are made in acomputer now, right, They're not made
on set. And that's that issomething that I'm always going to lament,
(57:42):
uh, just as somebody who cameinto my love for these movies through through
the old school style. And that'sagain that's a personal preference. And look,
we can debate the merits of CGor practical effects all day, but
this is not a good representation ofpractical effects. No, this King Kong
might be this might be the lowpoint for suit Masian, I think so.
(58:07):
Yeah. I mean, and that'sthe thing too, is like you
can look at movies. I constantlyam saying that, you know, like
I'll look at a movie like Ghostbustersand I'll be like, why can't you
use those same you know effects todaylike they looked? It felt. It
feels like the magic of movie making. When you watch the original Ghostbusters and
you see how they do these,you know these all of the ghosts and
(58:28):
the beams and all that stuff.It's just it just looks so great,
and it would still look great today. And and when you look at you
know, this movie, this isan example of like why I would be
like, Okay, sometimes CG mightbe a little better sometimes, but it's
not a case of practical versus CG. I mean, ten years later they
were there was an example of suitmation that was the polar opposite of this
(58:52):
in terms of quality. Yeah,and you just remember this is the third
yeah Godzilla film. This is thethird attempt by this special effects team.
And some part of me wonders howmuch of this is watching uh, you
know, such a such an iconbeing, uh being being given the raw
(59:15):
deal here, Like if this wasa random gorilla, you know, a
random gorilla suit, I don't thinkI would feel that much. I think
I would feel like antipathy or somekind of ambivalence. But but King Kong
deserved better. This is his firstmovie in three decades. He deserved better.
(59:37):
But at the same time, Ireally like enjoy the personality of King
Kong here. I really love thelittle touches they gave him in his fight
with Godzilla. He is a he'sa brawler, he's a fighter, he's
got some pride. He's also clearlyoverwhelmed. Uh. There's just some little
(59:59):
little touches, some of the expressionsor some of the some of the things
he does throughout that fight that Ithink reinforced his personality and his characteristics that
the Western audiences love, and I'msure you know the Japanese audiences did too.
Agreed. Yeah, while it isnot a poster of what you'd like
(01:00:22):
to see from suitmation, I don'tthink it's a complete loss, but I
do think most of the losses fromthe King Kong side, now that's not
a loss, it's I mean,this is King Kong is pretty bad in
this. This is where it's likeit's right or die. This is where
your affection for this era and thisthis generation of of of special effects and
(01:00:52):
in monster movies has to come intoplay. So I can't are argue with
the fact that this looks like shit. I'm not going to argue from that
basis. I'm going to I'm goingto argue of I'm coming from a point
of emphasizing the context of the time. Right, It's like the same with
(01:01:16):
early Star Trek episodes like you canmake fun of those terrible effects, and
I think it is fun to laughat them and laugh with them, but
just to point and laugh at anearlier time and not appreciate I think the
context and you know what this momentin time represented. I don't know.
(01:01:40):
I think it takes the fun outof out of watching older movies, and
I think it isolates you from all, you know, a whole generation of
culture. No, I completely understand. I think I think where the issue
comes in, where it's a lossfor me, is more so in the
realm of of you know, ina suit or suit mation as they say,
(01:02:02):
I think I think there is valueto be had from it both historically
and you know, and I knowyou hate to hear this, but I
do think this is an example ofso bad it's good. I do think
it's it looks awful every time Isee it. I think it looks awful,
but it completely adds to the entertainmentvalue of the fight later in the
movie, and it adds to mylaughter throughout them. Sure, no,
(01:02:23):
I you know, I'm not snarkypointing and laughing, but it is definitely
funny. Maybe my skepticism there isthat I think was so. I think
the the humor in the goofiness ofthis film is, you know, it's
it wears that on its sleeve.You know. The camp value is intentional.
I'm not saying they they made KingKong look this way on purpose.
(01:02:49):
I think they genuinely did struggle touse suitmation to realize a creature that was
more, you know, mammal esque, more of a primate, something that
had more humanistic features than, youknow, than a lizard than a dinosaur.
Right. But I think they Ithink the best of the show eerror
(01:03:09):
films. They knew what they were, they knew that they knew what they
were dealing with, and I thinkthey allow themselves to have fun and allowed
audiences to have fun with it.I'll agree with that. I think that's
I think that's that's I think it'svery true, and that's probably not a
(01:03:30):
persuasive argument for the skeptics, buthopefully I'm at least highlighting how somebody can
enjoy this even in the year oftwenty twenty four, even you know,
more than more than sixty years later. I mean, I don't even think
I've processed how how long ago thismovie really was? Yeah, but I
(01:03:52):
will say too, Like, butwith what you said, I do think
even for doubters, there's a reasonto enjoy this. I do think that
there is there there are things aboutthis that if if somebody wanted to watch
a movie, you know, andlike, you know, I do think
that there is a joy taken outof a film, or at least,
you know, an underestimating that youdo when you kind of do a point
and laugh. But I do thinkthat there is that value to be had
(01:04:14):
with this, you know, thatkind of classic sit down with your friends,
you know, crack some beers,you know, open up the I
think and laugh, you know,I think this movie does have that along
with its you know, intentional comedy. But I also think it is a
good gateway. Like I think,if somebody is asking me where to start
with the show, what era,I would include this. I don't know
(01:04:38):
if this is the first movie youshould see, I think I would ask
you, like, you know,what's what's your poison? Right? Pick
your poison right? But if youwant to see a good brawl and all
of the the goofy pitfalls that thesemovies fell into, or allowed themselves to
(01:04:58):
fall into as I I sort ofbelieve, you know, I think this
is a great place to start,and I think there's just a lot of
a lot of good fun to behad, harmless fun when there aren't,
you know, actors in brown faceplaying playing the tribesmen. But yeah,
(01:05:20):
that's a conversation I just didn't havethe bandwidth to have today when talking about
King Congress is Godzilla. So wecan have that conversation I think another time.
Yeah, wrong, but not notthe time. I'm not doing it.
It's just gonna pretend like it wasn'tthere. Yeah, but the yeah,
(01:05:42):
I mean, it's like the showerror rule of any scene with a
man in a rubber suit is goodfun. Yeah, like these that era
of movie just never failed, nomatter how shitty the surrounding movie was.
Like, go, take Godzilla versusMegalon, just a bottom tier attempt at
(01:06:03):
making a monster movie. Really theyfailed. That everything that you should really
like have in your arsenal if you'regoing to make one of these movies.
But it's still a guy in aGodzilla costume whipping his tail at a guy
in a robot costume. And Ijust can't hate that I think. I
(01:06:28):
think that defies hatred. I thinkthat defies boredom and contempt. I will
always love cheesy man in a suitfights, So give me all of it.
Now. The question is should youwatch the whole movie of King Congress's
Goddilla? Should they watch the wholemovie or should they skip to the fight.
I think the proper context for thefight is provided by the movie.
(01:06:53):
I think it sets the perfect tone. I think there's a lot of fun
to be had along the way.I don't think you should miss the the
real spectacle of the movie, whichis watching King Kong fight a real octopus
that is wrapped in cell a phanefor most of the fight. That's a
(01:07:14):
tough question for me to answer here, because on one hand, I want
to tell people like, don't bother, just watch the fight. But on
the other hand, I think youappreciate the fight a lot more when you've
been through the movie. So yeah, I don't know if I can definitively
(01:07:38):
say here. I do think ifI had to say one, you know,
if you're already interested in either ofthese characters, or both of these
characters, or just this genre orwhat have you, I think it's worth
it to watch the movie. Ithink it's I think it will help your
enjoyment of the fight. I thinkit will, you know, increase how
(01:08:01):
you come away feeling about our confrontationbetween our two characters. But if you're
not really interested in this genre ofthese characters and you just kind of are
intrigued, then absolutely, I thinkyou can just skip the rest of it
and watch the fight. I thinkthe fight is less impactful when you haven't
(01:08:24):
sat through the rest of the movie. It's a reward and that's yeah.
The fun thing about these movies isthat patients is rewarded. Like you build
up this fight for an hour andtwenty minutes, and I think it absolutely
delivers. It's it's a good fight. I did like to fight. I
enjoyed it a lot, despite myissues with how it ended, and you
(01:08:48):
know, maybe how long it tookto get to get there. I think
it did help my enjoyment of thefight. When we finally got it and
I was like, oh shit,they're going at like it was a it's
a vicious fight for the era,and I think, uh, it's vicious
and it's creative. I feel realanimosity between these two I mean, shit,
(01:09:11):
we've we've talked about it a fewtimes. I mean, there's literally
a part where Godzilla is getting atree shoved down its throat by King Kong,
and then he caught it up,turns it into a fireballs fits it
right back at King Kong, whoreally like takes that insult and like holds
back his holds back his shoulders likehe's Henry cavill and Mission impossible fallout.
(01:09:32):
He's ready to take this to thenext level and ocked his arms like a
shot. It's I mean, it'sone step below that. And yeah,
I think you rob You rob yourselfof context if you just skip to that
scene. That being said, thehistory is made here in the last ten
(01:09:54):
minutes. I'm not going to arguethat the whole movie has has this kind
of like historical way to it.It's that last ten minutes that gives it
the legacy that it has now.But it's the it's the rest of the
movie that gives you the appreciation youhave for the fight. I agree,
agreed. Oh my god, we'refinally here. I hope this fight delivers
(01:10:15):
and and to its credit, Ithink it does. For me. It
did. Yeah, It's like,imagine if if you know, if the
thriller in the Manila had no context, if there was no run up to
it, if Muhammad Ali and JoeFrasier just stepped in the boxing ring,
threw some punches and walked away.I mean, it's the art of the
cell man. I mean, likeany any any sport, you got,
(01:10:39):
a combat sport has to do it. And and even with the build to
the fight itself, you have tohave you know, like watch a UFC
fight, It's not just that fight. The only thing that was missing,
right is is not saying Godzilla orKing Kong do the Joe Rogan experience after
Oh God God, Oh well maybethey will. Who knows. I'd like
(01:11:02):
to see it. I'd like to. I'd be a little scared to see
it. I don't really need toknow what their views on pronouns are.
I don't need to know what,uh who they think really won the twenty
twenty election. I just don't needto. I don't need to know them.
That that being said, I Ido think I think, you know,
(01:11:23):
you have to have an undercard andyou know, and I think having
King Kong face off against a realoctopus, uh and having you know,
this build you know, it's it'smore than just a build to the fight.
You have to you have to,you know, properly set people's expectations.
If you it's it's like if youput the main event on first,
(01:11:45):
you know, if you if youtune into a UFC fight to see you
know, I don't even know who'sat the top of UFC. I haven't
watched it in in a couple ofyears, but you know, you know,
let's just say John Jones. Let'ssay John Jones is up on the
marquee and his fight goes on first. You know, nobody's gonna stay to
fight to see, you know,these unknown guys fight each other. You
(01:12:09):
know, nobody would have stayed forthe rest of the movie. Nobody would
have enjoyed the rest of the movieif we got to fight right away and
then the rest of it was justfiller. Now, I do have some
disappointing news for you, and Idon't know how you're gonna take this,
but unfortunately both Godilla and King Konglater sued Vince McMahon for inappropriate conduct.
(01:12:30):
Fuck Vince mcmannon. I hope Ihope that, I hope they milk him
dry. But yeah, I meanthat that being said, I want to
check is there anything else you wantedto bring up with this movie before we
kind of delivered our final verdicts here. No, I think we really dived
into it. I think we reallyhad some miner brawls here and there,
but nothing to nothing worth demolishing apagoda over. My favorite tradition in all
(01:13:01):
Godilar movies is the need to demolishand level a pagoda by the end,
and that that pagoda as well andtruly demolished. So that's a great note
to end that movie on, andthis is a great note to leave this
podcast on. So we have talkedabout King Congress's Godilla. This was a
(01:13:24):
film that I wanted to talk about. So I'm going to go ahead and
just deliver my verdict, which Ihave wrestled with over the course of this
movie, because it's really impossible forme to to, you know, separate
my subjective adoration for this whole era, this, this type of movie everything.
It's two point eight on letterbox forcontext for yeah, which was depressingly
(01:13:48):
low, although I can't blame people, and it's nice to know that the
Japanese version is higher, but callme the Ugly American. I really take
all of these the corny talking headsand the seemingly wasted time on exposition and
(01:14:15):
non sequiturs and overacting. I takeall of that and stride me and because
it really all adds up to thesame, really wonderful experience. And I
don't know, I just adore thismovie. I think it's an adorable little
artifact. I think it's baffling withoutcontext, and it's good that we've gotten
(01:14:39):
a modernized version of it, eventhough I think we've we've really thrown out
some of the fun, like we'vereally thrown out I think the Baby with
the Bathwater by really treating this eraas as something to be embarrassed or ashamed
of. It's not. It's itwas good fun. It was a stepping
stone to what is, unfortunately knowthe you know, one of the biggest
(01:15:02):
trends in entertainment, you know,the crossover. But King Kong versus Godilla,
I still think that's the blueprint.I think, get some wacky characters,
gets, you know, really throwthese monsters in barely a reason to
put them against each other, butjust make sure that everybody's having fun along
(01:15:23):
the way, and I think that'sthe recipe to have a blast at the
movies. So I'm going to saythat this movie is actually good. I
mean, it's not great, it'sdefinitely not It's not even a high point
for the Show Era. But thatjust tells you how fun the rest of
these movies are. So if you'venever seen one of these films before,
if you want to have a goodlaugh and get a little bit of a
(01:15:45):
you know, an appreciation for history, yeah, check out King Congress is
Goddilla, and then binge the restof the Show Era Goddilla movies. On
Max on HBO. Max Well said, sir, happy that you brought this
movie here. Always happy to tocover a good monster fight. I have
(01:16:09):
a weird relationship with with monster movies. I think, I especially these sort
of kaijus. I think it's avery love hate relationship that I have with
them, because I do have certainexpectations when I go into one, even
sometimes to my detriment, one thatis as historically significant as this one.
(01:16:33):
I think this is a movie thatthere's a lot of fun to be had
with. I think there are alot of really cool things about this movie
that people, if they are fansof Godzilla and King Kong or one or
the other. I think this isa must watch. I'm not gonna tell
you, if you're a fan ofthis to skip anything and and just skip
to the fight. I don't thinkthat would be worth it. If you're
already interested in these characters, like, dive into this thing and have fun
(01:16:56):
with it. For me, youknow, as much as I like Godzilla
and as much as I you know, am am sort of indifferent about King
Kong as a whole. To becompletely honest, I just always have been.
I didn't enjoy this movie as muchas I wanted to. I think
it's okay. I think historically it'sextremely important and significant and something that I
(01:17:21):
think people need to pay attention toit and acknowledge for what it did for
the genre and even for itself atthe time. But overall, I would
say, you know, this moviehas a two point eight. I would
say that's around what I would givethe movie. Therefore, I'm obligated to
say that it is that bad.I think it's right. I think I
think the audience is on the markhere as far as my opinion is concerned.
(01:17:45):
Well, if you are unsatisfied withthis cut, make sure you track
down the Japanese original that I yes, it is certainly more of a worthy
movie, you know, in allrespects. Yeah, but I I will
always have at least nostalgia. I'llalways, you know, remember the American
cut fondly. I actually had flashbacksto real childhood memories watching this movie.
(01:18:11):
You know, it jogged some thingsthat I did not know were there to
jog. I love when that happens, don't you Just you just love when
you turn on a movie that youused to watch as a kid and just
things just start flooding back to you. It's it's there's nothing like that feeling
and you remember just how like howfun it was to be racist, like
all that brown face I was.You just rolled with it. Man.
(01:18:33):
Times were different, Times were different. Times were different. Man, everybody's
trying to bring it back. Sowe'll get back there at some point.
I'm sure King Kong and God Dylastarring in The Daily Wires next movie.
Oh no, oh God, burnit to the ground, Burn this podcast
to the ground. Speaking of burningthis podcast to the ground, I think
(01:18:53):
it's time we bring this episode toa close. But first, obviously we
are not dissimilar from The Daily Wirelove money. We need money. Our
religion is money. So we're andwe are whores to ourselves. Yeah,
so we're ready to plug away toour patreon if you guys want to not
only support an independent podcast, butalso get a get early access to exclusive
(01:19:16):
episodes, if you want to getmerchandise and slap a not That Bad sticker
on your laptop or on your foreheador then or whatever, whatever whatever is
stickerable in your environment can now beadorned with the not That Bad logo.
So head on over to our patreonif any of that sounds like like a
(01:19:38):
good time to you. Agreed,and and you can always support our Patreon.
You can always give us your moneyif that's what you want to do.
Of like Gabe said, we arebig fans of the money. However,
that's not the only way you cansupport us obviously, you know,
liking, commenting, sharing our show, following us a subscribe, viving to
(01:20:00):
our YouTube channel. Anything that youwant to do to support us in that
way you can do, you know, heading on over to our social media
keeping up with our posts where weannounce episodes and release links. But you
can find all of that in oneplace. If you head to our website,
not That badpod dot com. Wehave links to all of the places
we post our show. We havelinks to all of the places that we
are as far as our social mediapresence goes. We even have bios on
(01:20:25):
your two favorite Terrible Take artists heremyself and Gabe, as well as how
the show came to be and linksto the podcast that started this all back
in the day. So definitely checkthat out if you're at all interested in
supporting us. We would love tohave you as a part of the Not
That Bad family, as the corporateworld would say, But we want to
(01:20:48):
thank you for all who are alreadysupporting us. You know, we see
the website traffic, it's been tremendous. Definitely didn't see that coming, So
thank you all for that, andthank you for the support across our podcast
platforms. It's been amazing. Yeah, and we have some really fun episodes
(01:21:08):
coming up. We're trying out somenew things that I think is gonna be
a lot of fun for both usand you guys listening. You're gonna get
to hear our opinions outside of theNot That Bad realm. We're gonna touch
on some topics that we've been meetingto discuss on here for a while now.
So just beyond the lookout for morecontent, both regular and new specials
(01:21:31):
in the future. It's gonna begreat. It's gonna be great. And
before we log ourselves out, beforeI have mister Tice do what he does
so eloquently every week and or everyother week and take us out, I
know you have something you wanted tolet the audience know about. Yes,
yes, thank you for reminding me. So, I am going to be
(01:21:53):
participating in a panel hosted by RoadmapWriters, a networking and training service for
screenwriters, and they are hosting apanel for Neurodiversity Celebration Month, which is
this month April, and I'm goingto be speaking with a number of other
(01:22:14):
neurodivergent writers, executives, reps,etc. On the experience of being neurodivergent
in the entertainment industry. It's goingto be a free webinar and it'll be
a panel for both people in thecommunity and those looking to be better allies,
the best allies, because there isa lot of misinformation and misconceptions about
(01:22:38):
the neurodiversion experience that people both inthe community and outside can learn about and
we can all collectively develop a betterunderstanding, which I think is really crucial
to reaching full representation and inclusivity forthe community. So thanks again for letting
(01:22:58):
me plug that eyes are interested inattending that webinar. The link will be
below. Again, it's free andwe would love to have you no matter
what background you're from. If you'rejust looking to again develop a full understanding
and an attempt to be more inclusiveto the community, it's always appreciated.
(01:23:20):
Awesome, and so check that outif you guys are available on the date
and time. With date and timeMay thirtieth and April first, it'll be
two panels on May thirtieth and Aprilfirst, both starting at five thirtieth and
yes, April thirtieth, they'll betwo panels on April thirtieth and May first,
(01:23:43):
both starting at five thirty Pacific timePacific Standard time. And again the
links and the other information will bedown below. Perfect. Yeah, check
that out if you guys are available. Always cool to see, not that
bad having a presence across many areas, even if loosely connected, So very
(01:24:03):
fun to see. Check that out. If you guys are available, again,
like Gabe said, link will bedown below in the description, But
until next time, Gabe, wouldyou like to take us out? I
would love to do nothing more.Connor, all right, guys again,
this was a blast, but wehave to plunge back into the sea and
and make our way back home.So I'm Gabe emerging Conor and this is
(01:24:27):
not that bad, roaring away asthe credits roll,