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January 24, 2025 • 79 mins
It puts the "The" in The Wolfman! With a new reimagining of the classic Universal Monsters movie out in the theaters, simply titled "Wolf Man," it's time to go back and rewatch the first remake that we discussed years ago. How does it compare to Leigh Whannell's take? Have either Gabe or Connor changed their minds? And, can we go back to when werewolves looked like this? Pretty please?

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to twenty twenty five. Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
We're hi everyone, Welcome back to the oh Man, That

(00:28):
Bad Podcast, where we talk about movies and other shit
that doesn't matter. I'm one of your co hosts, Gabe.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm your other co host, Connor, and we thought what
better way to ring in the new year other than
in not that bad fashion, which is late and hearkening
back to our early days, not doing anything new, but
having a fun discussion. Nonetheless, we're going to be revisiting

(00:59):
an old one today. But first, just recently, at the
time of recording, we lost a bit of a titan
in the film industry, at least to many film students
and people who want to do this for a living.
You want to talk a little bit about it, Yeah, No,
you want to talk a little bit about it for us.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Right before we started recording, David Lynch, the director of
such classics as Eraserhead, The Elephant Man, Blue Velvet, Mulholland Drive,
and The Coke, creator of Twin Peaks, passed away just
before his seventeen seventy ninth birthday what would have been

(01:39):
his seventy ninth birthday. We have talked about David Lynch
before on this channel, we talked about his ill fated
Dune adaptation, So if you want to hear us go
more in depth on our thoughts about the man, you
can check out that episode. Even though that is not
the best way to commemorate the memory of David Lynch.

(02:02):
We were talking about probably the film in his body
of work that he regretted making the most. But you
can hear our discussion about the rest of his work
and why he was such an important filmmaker to me
and so many other snobs and film broke out there,

(02:24):
and I did write a tribute to him on my
substack that all link below. But yeah, I've been mourning
that man's loss ever since it happened. It was a
really surreal thing, even though we knew that he had
health problems. Of course he was you know, he was
seventy eight, almost seventy nine. He was just such a

(02:47):
larger than life personality, such a unique the figure that
it was just hard to believe that he really passed
away and he's no longer with us. So I had
to address that. That is the most recent film news
as of our time of recording this, And you know,

(03:08):
I wanted to do a real discussion about David Lynch
for this episode, and my co host said that he's
not very complimentary on mister Lynch, so that was probably
not again, the best way to commemorate the man's passing.
But I will definitely nominate another one of his films

(03:32):
for a future discussion. You know, for Lynch fans, you
probably can guess what I'm thinking of, because it's his
other big movie that infamously bombed with critics and audiences
upon its first release and now it's something of a
cult classic. Anyways, we are not here technically to talk

(03:53):
about David Lynch. We are doing another revisited episode. This
is the second time we're revisiting an old episode, right.
The first time was The Phantom Menace, and now we're
revisiting one of the first films we ever talked about.
In fact, Connor noted to me that it was the

(04:15):
fourth episode we ever did.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Episode four of Not That Bad. July of twenty and
twenty two, we covered The Wolfman from twenty ten. This
was an early episode for us. I always I always
fight this urge to be like, hey, go back and
watch this original episode if you want to see all

(04:39):
our thoughts because I think it's we definitely went more
in depth than we're going to be going in this episode.
We'll be the first to tell you we were very
early on at this point, so it's not necessarily our
finest work, but if you would like to go give
us a view there, it would be great. It was
really our first video to do very well on YouTube.
We were doing pretty well on Spotify platform at that time,
but it was kind of the first one to pop

(05:00):
off on YouTube for so it's got a special place
in our heart. Back then, however, we did have a
discussion about the film in which Gabe gave the thing,
gave the film a not that bad rating, and I,
for the first time ever on the show at that point,
gave a film a that bad rating. I'm interested to
see if those hold up for both of us throughout

(05:21):
the course of this episode, but the film itself stacking
up pretty interestingly, and I think this is a good
way to segue to basically the reason that we're going
back and visiting this film today. This film has a
two point seven out of five on Letterbox as of
the time of this recording, but it is not the

(05:43):
only or let's say this, it's not the most recent
take on the Wolfman. Just this year, director and writer
and actor, pretty talented guy Lee one L has unleashed
his version of the Wolfman after directing very successful both
i'd say, both critically and commercially, The Invisible Man a

(06:05):
couple of years ago. Now I have not seen this film.
I certainly have my thoughts on the trailer. But Gabe
here has seen the new Wolfman film. And before I
get into your thoughts, before I kind of throw it
to you here, I do want to say this film
that we're covering today two point seven out of five
on letterbox. Care to guess where leewe Ells is at

(06:29):
this present time?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Two point five?

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Oh, two point six, You are so close. That's kind
of impressive, though, yeah, two point six. This is actually
currently less favored over the twenty ten version. What are
your thoughts coming out of your viewing of Wolfman?

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Well, first off, it had a really disappointing opening a
weekend at the box office. Yes, and its mid January
release was pretty ominous for people. You're excited about it,
like I was. Let me rehash something that I talked

(07:06):
at nauseum about in our first Wolfman discussion, the original
The Wolfman, and especially Frankenson Meets the Wolfman. Huge formative
movie that got me into movies, that gave me the
identity of being a movie freak, and especially a monster

(07:29):
movie pound. I was obsessed with the universal monster movies
from that point on. So it's a special film to me,
and I think it holds up in a lot ways
that nineteen forty one The Wolfman. It's pretty slow and
surprisingly lacks action for you know, given given that it's

(07:52):
a it's a monster movie. But it has one of
the great performances in the history of horse and a
lone Cheney Junior as Lawrence Talbot, of which you know
he would have reprised that role many times. It was
the most famous role that he really owned. No other

(08:13):
actor before Nicio del Toro ever played Laurence Talbot, which
was pretty rare back then. So we get the twenty
ten version. It comes out when I'm twelve, and I
go go go for it because I had not developed
critical thinking skills yet, so I just I wholly embraced it.

(08:35):
I accepted it just any any movie that could remind
me of the experience of watching the original The wolf
Man was something I was just going to instantly love absolutely,
and you know, go back and listen to the original
episode we did to hear a more thorough breakdown on this.

(08:57):
But you know, as I've gotten older and as I've
watched a more times, I see the flaws. You know,
It's not a perfect movie or a perfect remake by
any means, and I defended it. I certainly liked it
more than Connor. But yeah, I was hoping that we
could get a superior remake or reimagining or just a

(09:19):
new movie with that character, Lawrence Talbot the Wolfman in
the future. So imagine my delight when I hear that
leew and l one of my favorite working directors and screenwriters.
Oh yeah, you know, after doing again a very successful
adaptation of The Invisible Man, Now.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
We can't forget his movie Upgrade Upgrade was a huge
surprise for me. And because he also directed directed that.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
It was not his debut. That was Insidious Chapter three.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Which we have talked about. I talked about it with
Mia from Hallosa Arts on Instagram. Check that out if
you want to hear our thoughts on that. But leew
and Ll is a guy that we a We both
have a lot of connections too. We love the Saw
movies in Sidia, saw that stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, and we used to be friends on Twitter, yeah,
until he, you know, fled that platform like so many others.
I'm still on Twitter, by the way, but I will
not call it anything other than Twitter. So I guess
that's my political compass test. I was obviously very excited.

(10:28):
I guess I did have some kind of trepidation of, oh,
are we just gonna keep rehiring the same guy to
readapt all of these old eyps? Especially after the Dark Universe.
What I thought was going to happen is that all
of these tours, we're going to get a chance to
reinvent these classic properties and we get very different visions.

(10:52):
I didn't know if like there would be a new
cinematic universe or if these would all be standalones. But
when I heard that leew Know was doing The wolf
Man by one, uh you know the asterisk on my on,
my excitement was pardon you wanted to see somebody else
get get a chance to do this. But regardless, I'm

(11:14):
still especially when Ryan Gosling was announced as the wolf Man, like,
oh my god, like they got an a list movie
star like Ryan Gosling. The script must be bonkers good,
this is going to be epic, This is you know,
could be better than The Invisible Man. And then uh,

(11:36):
I'm gonna label this the the development drip process, where
it's not development hell, where the project dies and never
gets released. But clearly there's there's problems or or you know, difficulties,
and things start to change, you know, drip drip, drip,

(11:59):
and and by the time it's out it seems very
different than the project we expected upon the announcement. Mainly right,
Ryan Gosling drops out at some point. Can't remember exactly
when that happened, probably like twenty twenty one, twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Two, i'd say around there. I don't remember hearing much
about him afterwards. I actually had forgotten he was attached
to it until I was doing research for this video.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
So yeah, but I swear that happened. It is something
that has faded from memory, but that that did happen
at some point.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
It did, yeah, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Pretty sure he was attached to the Leewnell version. But
I digress. Now the titular Wolfman is being played by
another actor I love, by a door I've been waiting
for him to have a big, big breakthrough Christopher Abbott.

(12:55):
If you have seen Girls, you know that he like
no matter what role what he does, He's a super
naturally compelling actor, always brings real way to his roles,
and as a true like an actor's actor, he does

(13:17):
all these interesting projects and he takes these very challenging roles.
I mean, he worked with Leena Dunham. I can't really
imagine a more challenging prospect than that. But now he's
the wolf Man, so I have a new reason to
be And I'm a fan of girls. I'm a fan
of girls. I wear that on my sleeve. I actually
really like girls. But to me, I would love for

(13:41):
him to be as famous as Adam Driver, the other
breakout from Girls. I've been waiting for Chris Rabbit to
have a moment there. So I'm still excited. Right and
then I see the trailer and I switched it over
to you now, Connor, because it sounds like you might
have had a similar response that I did. Right, wolf

(14:04):
the response upon seeing the wolf not the Wolfman.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Wolfman, Wolfman. Well, you did see.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
The Wolfman trailer, so so the space Wolfman quotation.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Marks trailer the Space Wolf Spaceman space trailer. Well, first,
I do want to say, like I loved the idea
of lewan Hill writing a majority of these movies. In
my mind, what I thought would be cool is if
you had sort of a uniform main writer and then
you had sort of a secondary writer come on to

(14:38):
revise the script and direct the movie. I thought that
would be cool. I think there's a lot of talented
people out there that could get an opportunity to You know,
what it does is it kind of sets up this
precedent to do this sort of connected universe someday if
you want to. I wouldn't be a huge fan of that,
but if you want to do that, go ahead. It
makes it more cohesive if you have sort of a

(14:58):
base writer to that around. I know with this New
wolf Man movie, it was not Lewanell who was the
sole writer of the film. The secondary writer actually made
her debut. She's an actress. This was her first major
emotion picture writing credit, which is cool. I think that's
a really cool thing to do. But I was concerned
when I saw that Leewanel was directing it because even

(15:20):
though I know he is a very capable director. There's
just certain things that I think his style kind of
feeds to and the more horror elements. He's a very
good jump scare director, and he's a very good tension director.
But I didn't know how that would translate to a
story about a wolfman or a were wolf. This case,
it seems to particularly be a wolf man. But I

(15:44):
saw the trailer. I was really excited. I saw that
it came out, people were talking about it, there was
a lot of buzz about it. I didn't see. I
didn't read anything. I was like, I just want to
watch it on my own, and I just I mean,
it just took every bit of wind out of my sales.
You know, I've made it kind of clear that I

(16:04):
feel a little disconnected from the movie world today. I
don't have a ton of time to watch stuff. When
I do watch stuff, it's usually older stuff to make
me feel better about everything going on always, but I've
seen the one exception to that has been Long Legs.
When I saw that trailer, I thought it didn't give
away as much. I thought it had a ton of

(16:26):
intrigue around it, and it made me want to watch
the movie more. And this trailer is the polar opposite.
I've never recently, I've seen a lot of trailers where
I'm like, Oh, that looks interesting, but I probably won't,
you know, get a chance to watch it, and that's
that's fine. I don't really feel other way about it.
This is a movie that I've for years now been
excited to come out, and I saw the trailer and

(16:48):
immediately went, I don't think I'm gonna watch this movie.
I hated it. I didn't like the bits that we
saw of this wolfman creature, and I didn't like what
it seemed like they were doing with the story.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Depth. You had a harsher reaction than me, but I
was not excited by the trailer. And something I picked
up on was that this was going to be a
very small film.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
This is.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Having seen it, I can confirm that this is the
only wearable film I've seen that I could imagine being
done as a stage play. You have really three characters
at a farm for ninety percent of the movie, and
it is It has a real minimalist approach, which is

(17:40):
what I'll say for now because I don't want to
spoil it. I think people should go out and see it.
I did end up liking the movie more than I
guess I thought I would based on the trailer, and
definitely I liked more than some other audiences and reviewers.
I would give it higher than a two point five
or two points.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
You'd say it's not that bad.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I know I would, So you know, ten years down
the line, I can see us coming back and going
back to the well. But and this is not a
review of that movie, of course, But what I'm going
to do is use this as a real jumping off
point in this frame of reference for our conversation about

(18:20):
twenty ten's The Wolfman starring Benisol del Toro, Anthony Hopkins,
Emily Blunt, because now we have someone else take a
stab at reimagining this character of this property. Although I
should say this is basically Wolfman in name only, the

(18:44):
main character's name is not even Lawrence Tallbot, which I
don't understand. Why remakes that are pitched obviously as remakes,
designed to be remakes, marketed as remakes, and they can't
even we can't share the name from that classic character.
That's just very It was needless to me, and I

(19:08):
would have accepted this as a movie on its own terms.
But you know, that's clearly not the intention of the
people making the movie. This is a remake of The
Wolfman from nineteen forty one. So yeah, I guess having
seen the movie, I think the best place to segue

(19:31):
is that we have two opposite ends of the spectrum
here in approaching a remake. Right. The twenty ten version,
as we noted before, was really trying to be a
love letter to that whole era of the universal monsters,
just that era of genre storytelling. It was set in

(19:53):
Victorian England, really embraced a lot of the tropes that
we kind of associate with that era, like gypsies and
and you know, mythic curses and and all of that stuff.
And it was trying to more than reimagine the Wolfman.
It was trying to take the tradition that the original

(20:14):
represented and bring that to a modern audience without without
really updating it. And to a lot of modern audience
members it felt corny, it felt dated. It you know,

(20:34):
could have used either more modern take or some some
crucial updating to really translate what worked in nineteen forty
one for audiences in twenty ten. And Wolfman is a

(20:56):
is a reinvention that completely severs its relationship with you
know what came before it. It is a werewolf film
produced in twenty twenty five, and that shows in really
every aspect, the writing, the characterization, the settings, you know,
the style. I mean, this is emblematic of kind of

(21:19):
every trope that we would associate with where horror is
at right now. You know, it has streaks of you know,
elevated horror conceptions. It reminded me at various points of
like a quiet place which is not elevated horror, but
you know a lot of that minimalism, a lot of

(21:39):
that I think attempt to be more character driven. But yeah,
Wolfman is trying to be of its moment, appeal almost
strictly to the audience of the time, and has distanced itself,
I would say, almost completely the traditions of the universal monster,

(22:06):
you know, universe given given the dichotomy I just laid out,
does that inform how you look back on twenty tens
The wolf Man?

Speaker 1 (22:22):
There has been a lot that went into this reviewing
for me. First off, you know me, I don't really
like to be negative about movies. When I come away
from a movie not liking it, unless I absolutely hate it.
I really I feel bad, like I want to like
every movie that I watch. I don't know why anybody

(22:42):
would want to hate a movie. It's two hours of
your life that you'll never get back. So I've softened
a lot since we did that episode. I think I
was inclined to be much more negative when we first
started than I am now, But also having seen the
trailer and the reactions, early reactions to the movie coming out,

(23:04):
and to people's thoughts about the trailer, and then to
people's thoughts about the movie, and I don't know, I
there was a lot that went into this recent viewing.
And actually hearing you say that about what the new
movie is, it is going to inform a couple of
things that I'll say throughout this episode, kind of reevaluating

(23:26):
this twenty ten version once again. But for you, how
was that for you? Did you? Did you rewatch this
movie before or after? You watched The New Wolfman.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Before?

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Before? Okay, so it didn't necessarily affect you going into it,
But now, coming out of wolf I.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Was thinking about the twenty ten wolf Man the whole
time watching. In fact, they steal a major plot element
from they do. I was kind of shocked, now, I

(24:06):
was more than a little shocked. I I and I
don't want to spoil the New wolf Man for anybody,
if I mean, do you plan on saying it?

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Ah? I mean probably probably not. I mean if honestly,
right now, you could just you could tell me and
just completely bleep it out of the recording and nobody
would know.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Maybe I'll tell you off off camera. But well, you know,
what's important here is that we even have a side
by side comparison of how these two you know, this
this beat, this story beat is done in both versions.
And the feeling I have about the two thousand and

(24:50):
film version now is that I'm almost shocked that it exists.
I'm shocked that a major studio in the twenty first
century allowed filmmakers to remake you know, this old ass
movie with such a loyalty to not only the text

(25:14):
of that movie, but the you know, the whole moment
in time that it represented, right, you know, everything we
were talking about, you know, the setting, the very mythos
of the werewolf in that film versus the new film.

(25:36):
It's it's kind of shocking to me in retrospect, and
I know that movie's failure the twenty ten movie's failure
is actually kind of what got us to this point
in a way, because you know, I don't know if
it was seen as a risk at the time, but
it definitely must have turned people away. It's so weird

(25:57):
because in nineteen ninety nine there was such a big
hit with Sleepy Hollow, which does what I think The
Wolfman was trying to do perfectly. And I know that
because the screenwriter who wrote Sleepy Hollow also wrote The
Wolfman The Wolfman. But I don't know if it's just

(26:19):
that's how much the culture changed, or you know, some
of the blemishes of that movie were just too much
for audiences to ignore, or maybe maybe if made the
whole thing feel really again corny and hokey and not
classic or literary. But I still look back and I'm

(26:41):
I'm grateful. I'm grateful that that twenty ten remake was
made when it was, but I guess I'm also mad
at it because it kind of helped kill this whole
you know, old Victorian style goth uh you know monster

(27:02):
movie genre that was that was its own genre, and
now it's been reinvented into something that I really don't
recognize as a fan of that original movie. But I
also have to say that werewolf movies are where I'm
at my most traditional. Like if you're a werewolf movie
that doesn't have like the silver bullet the full moon,

(27:25):
you know, if you're making a movie called the wolf
Man and nobody says even a man who is pure
of heart and says his prayers by night may become
a wolf when the wolf bane blooms and the full
moon is bright. If you're not saying that, then I
don't really know what we're doing here. And no shade
to the Great Leeweel. I just think this was uh,

(27:50):
as far as being a remake goes, I think it was.
It was just a misguided uh you know casting of
you know, writer to to the project. I can say
some positive things about how the movie stands on its own,
but even compared to the Invisible Man remake, which you know,

(28:10):
took plenty of liberties with the source material, at least
they kept the name of the Invisible Man, right.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, Okaynna, I'm gonna say something. I might regret saying
this later, But it doesn't have to be this difficult, Like,
it doesn't have to be this hard. I get so mad,
especially when if somebody's talented as Leewan Allen, I'm not
gonna put the blame on him, right, There's a lot
of factors that go into making him that will say.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
The impression I had is that this was a very
small movie, probably smaller than the way it was originally intended.
I have a really hard time seeing Ryan Gosling getting
attached to this script, to a project at this scale.

(29:01):
Unless they were prepared to just pay Ryan Gosling ninety
five percent of the budget, which maybe it made, that
could have happened.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Possible. It's possible. I just, you know, I a little bit,
you know, But people, if they've been watching us for
a while, they know that we're both We're both screenwriters
to varying degrees. I say that because you are much
more of a screenwriter than I am. But I I
do my writing, and I've been for the last several years.

(29:32):
I've had scripts putting it. But I've put together scripts
for you know, were Wolf character or a Dracula character
and things of that nature. And every time I write
it or work on it and go back to it,
you know, I just think, like, why does it have
to be so hard for people? In Hollywood to get
I mean, there are certain components that you got to include.

(29:54):
There's certain things you have to have, and there's there
but like they either throw too much money at it
or they don't throw enough. They either make it this big,
grand cgi fest craziness that everybody's gonna feel certain ways about,
or they don't use enough or they don't pay enough
for these things, and they why does it have to

(30:14):
be this difficult? That said, though, watching this back this
time and this time I actually had the luxury of
watching both versions of the film. I watched the original
cut and the director's cut, which I had not done
the original time. There is this appreciation that I have

(30:36):
of the method of going all out on it. You know,
there are there's interferences, right, there's things that the studio
did that made the movie turn out a little different
than probably the director in vision, probably definitely the crew.
I mean learning that Benicio del Toro is not only
a fan but also like a collector of wo Man

(30:59):
memor rebelia. Before taking this role on, I believe I
was much more harsh on him the first time that
I covered this.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
I do think big disagreements was I thought he was
quite good in the role, and I think he thought
he was quite bad.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
I I believe if if that that's how I remember
it as well, and if if that's the case, I've
done almost a complete one on that. I My thoughts
on him are this, I think, if you're gonna do
a remake of that story, he's he's like almost perfect.

(31:35):
He's almost perfect for it as an actor. But I
don't think he was given enough development in the story
for it to catch with me. And I think that's
what I caught last time. It made me unfair to him,
But I do believe I was unfair to him before
because watching it, like especially still, what got me was
I was I was looking at stills for the for

(31:56):
for making the thumbnail for this episode, and I was like, man,
he just like fits that look. If you were to
ask me, like, who would you cast a character in
this time period, I can't think of anybody more perfect
look wise, and so rewatching especially both cuts, there are
important scenes that I think are missing in the final
cut of this film that help the story and the

(32:19):
character a little more, just just a bit, but I
will hold that his development is not quite there. But
I do think like as far as casting goes, I
was definitely more harsh the first time that I watched
this movie, and I want to make sure that I
praised Benicio del Toro here.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
I think I might have commented back then in that
discussion that what I liked about his performance I think
took a little more time to appreciate. I don't think
I fully appreciated his performance, you know, the first couple

(32:58):
of times I watched it. I think they had to,
you know, sit with me for some time. But what
I appreciate about that that performance he gives is just
how moody it is. I think he's probably too downbeat
for for a lot of people. I think that's probably

(33:20):
what what you were get disconnected from at the time.
It almost feels like he's phoning it in. Uh.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
I think that's my big problem, is, like I don't
I think one thing that makes him sort of perfect
is the very few times that they make like one
of the things that makes Lawn Cheney Junior's performance so
good in the original is that, like you can see
how this is wearing on him as a character. His
you know, the the bags under the eyes, the you know,
I know it's in black and white, but you can

(33:50):
almost see like his color draining, and you can see
him he's just a wreck as this is happening, and
as he's trying to fight between both sides of him. Uh.
And one thing that I think kind of stuck out
when watching the original film again, which I revisited last year,
was that there was such a heavy emphasis on the

(34:11):
villain of the film being the the fact that he's
a were wolf. He's not a villain per se, but
this other side of him is kind of the villain,
or I guess the Curse of the Werewolf is kind
of the villain. That's not what this movie does, so
you don't get as many moments of that. But that's
what I think Benicio del Toro shines in in this
movie is those scenes where he's like he is heavily

(34:34):
affected by what's happening to him. He shines, I mean,
he completely shines.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
And this is the big criticism from fans of the
original towards this version. I know why modern audiences don't
like it because it's this stuffy movie like the eighteen hundreds,
and as you know, in two hours, maybe as like

(35:02):
thirty minutes of were wolves on screen, it's a little slow, yeah,
But for pearists like myself, the big problem upon seeing
it was that they gave Lawrence a villain which really
undermines his internal struggle, really undermines the duality of the beast,

(35:26):
which is really at the heart of the tragedy that
is the original of the Wolfman. It's a tragedy. It's
really one of the most I mean, Lawrence Talbot is
one of the most tragic heroes that cinema's ever produced,
I would dare to say. And of the you know,

(35:46):
of the you know screen monsters who are not you know,
who are like who look human and aren't you know,
created to be monsters like you know, the Frankenstein monster,
he he is the most compelling to me for that reason.
And what I said back then is what I'll say

(36:06):
this time. What I have decided to interpret this movie
as is not the story of a man who's conflicted
with his own, you know, personal demons, but a case
study of two men who both are plagued with personal demons,
one who is trying to fight those demons and the

(36:27):
other who has decided to embrace them. Right. And it's
really interesting to me when you think of this perhaps
as an allegory for you know, a hereditary kind of
mental illness or other affliction. So when I when I

(36:47):
recontextualized the twenty ten version that way, something really clicked
for me, and I actually really liked that decision. I
don't love every everything about its execution, but in theory
and as as that idea is brought to life by
these two actors Ben you see Adela Toro and Anthony Hopkins,

(37:11):
I think it really works. There is something about seeing
the old man were wolf that kind of takes you out.
It was a really effective idea. But there's something really
silly about watching these you know, father and son wolf
fight on screen. Yeah, which I'm sure is something we

(37:34):
agreed on at the time.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Do you think like a were wolf fight? Are you
kidding me? Like I think I believe I was mad
about this before, but I was I was actually more
angry watching it now. It's like, how do you fuck
up a fight between two were wolves? Like this should
have been the most epic thing ever.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I don't know. I don't think it is, because that's
not the point of the wolf man.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
You know, Well, no, but I'm saying like, if you're
going to introduce that that better be the best part
of your movie. I mean, if you're gonna have two
wolves fighting. But I especially this time around, like the
best parts were those sort of subtle parts of him
fighting off I mean effectively. In this movie, what he's
trying to do is he's trying to save Emily Blunt's character,

(38:17):
and he's trying to make sure that he doesn't hurt
her and.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
That he doesn't he trying to break the chain, you know.
I think that's another big thing. You know, hurt people,
hurt people, you know, people with where wolf fathers become
were wolves, and you know the story, you know, there's
a you know, this this curse to the bloodline that

(38:40):
is causing these you know, the men of this family
to be monsters act like monsters. And I think Lawrence
here is trying to break the chain more than anything,
which of course means in part saving Emily Blunt, who
you know, this is the first time I saw and
man did I have a big crush on her walking
out of the theater m even though she's in retrospect,

(39:03):
she doesn't have that much to do in the movie.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
It's upsetting because, like I think what they did in
the end of the movie with her character and making
her sort of have to be the one, you know,
to put an end to everything, is like such a
good way to do it, but it means little to
nothing because she's just been nothing for most of the movie.
She's been a I it again. It's sort of like

(39:30):
what you just said a moment ago with the execution
of the whole father son angle. It's a cool little
twist to throw in there, right that, like, especially since
there's the involvement of the brother character, and it's like, oh,
well it was the father who killed the brother and
the mother like okay, Like that's okay, that's an interesting
way to take it. But then it's like, okay, what
you'd think they'd do is that there's more of like

(39:52):
a devil on the shoulder aspect right where it's like
you need to embrace it the way I have, and
you need to do this. And then it's like, well, no,
you killed mom and you killed you know, my brother,
and you did all these things and it's wrong. And
then you have him sort of you know, fighting it
to the point where he's almost kind of embraced it
in the fact that he's not evil like his father,

(40:12):
and he's been able to find a balance as the
wolf and break through his humanity or whatever, you know.
But they don't do that. They don't do that at all.
And it's the same thing with Emily Blunt's character. And
it's like she's supposed, if she's supposed to be this
character that we're supposed to truly like, empathize with and
feel the gravity of this huge moment that they right

(40:33):
in the end of the movie, then give us stuff
to build to it that makes us feel for this
character or relate to anything other than just, oh cool,
Emily Blunts in this I.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Don't think there's nothing. I don't think there's a total
absence of development there. I think it's kind of crowded
out because this is a surprisingly busy movie. I really
don't think Hugo Weaving needs to be in this movie
at all.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
No, or at least I think that character should have
been hugely diminished. If you're gonna if you're gonna introduce
all the rest.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Of this stuff, but talk about somebody who really has
no role in the movie. I mean, I guess I
like the idea that the wolfman, you know, he becomes
a fugitive, and maybe you need some central character from
the police. But this is not the movie The Fugitive.
You know this, this is not.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
But they also try to make it a mystery like
it's like they're the These characters are trying to solve
the answers to questions that we've answered in the story already,
like the audience is well aware of everything that's going on.
And the way that mysteries are executed most effectively is
when the audience is learning this information with the characters,
even if it's not a main character that we're learning

(41:46):
it with. That's the most effective way to do it.
And when you're watching this movie, Hugo Weaving's character is
trying to figure this all out while we know it already.
It's just a waste of time. I mean, you could
have he could have been of the scene season.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I couldn't tell what the movie wanted us to think
about his character. Sometimes he seems incompetent because we know
things that he doesn't and he's scrambling it out. And
other times it seems like, you know, we should be
threatened by him, that Lawrence Tall, that should be threatened
by him, even though he really doesn't do anything of consequence,

(42:21):
But can we can we segue to the thing that
is far and away the best thing about this movie,
and far and away the thing it has over the
the newest version.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
I would be curious to hear. Would it would it
would wouldn't involve the visual aspect?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Would it involve the visual aspect? I don't know. Do
you count the entire look and design of the titular
werewolf part of the.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Oh okay, yeah, the wolf see I I don't The
trailers for the new film don't show enough that I
can actually draw real criticism. But I can say that
if if it's anything like what I've heard, I am
not a fan. Probably I like a more like wolfy werewolf,
like American werewolf in London is like most of the

(43:10):
direction that I would take if I was making a
werewolf character.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
You know this, This twenty ten remake of The Wolfman
has my favorite on screen werewolf to date. Really is okay,
my werewolf? This is everything I want out of a
were wolf.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
So you kind of prefer the wolf man aspect, with
the two leg with mostly walking on two legs and such.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I prefer a wolf man to have equal emphasis on
Wolf and man, you know what I mean, Like, yeah, yeah,
I seem rid and I I think I've brought this up,
but I don't love the American Werewolf version, you know,
which is ironic because I still think that's the best
wereowolf movie. But I don't love It's Werewolf because it

(43:55):
just looks like a big dog.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I wish there were more human aspects with it. I
just I like the menace of it. It's it's it's
very it's very. When I think of like a horror
version of a were wolf, that's what I think of.
And when I think of like a more dramatic version
of the of the character, I kind of think of this.
But I have softened on I didn't like the design

(44:19):
first time I watched it. I have a more of
appreciation for it because it was really kind of expertly crafted.
I think there's some scenes where it looks silly, though
I think we both kind of can acknowledge that, especially
with Anthony Hopkins.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Oh oh yeah, this version. Yeah, I well, seeing Anthony Hopkins,
who was I'm sure in the seventies when he did
this film, watching him turn into a were wolf before
our very eyes, that's that's the moment where the suspension
of disbelief really collapses.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
And I didn't hate how much of his face he
can like. I love him in so much of the movie,
but it's just like, especially his eyes, they just don't
work as a were wolf man. It's weird looking, and
I thought it looked kind of silly, But I did
warm up to Benisio's look a little especially a little
bit more.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I really don't see what, you know, what issue that
somebody could have with this design. I think people just
don't like this movie. And I'm not saying this is
your perception, but right when I hear people broadly make
fun of this this werewolf, I can only surmise that
they don't like the movie and they aren't going to
pay a look of respect to it, even though this

(45:29):
is Rick Baker's work. I mean, oh yeah, won an Oscar,
which some people find. You know, that's a better win
than Suicide.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Squad, right, I'm knowing. I'm a big Rick Baker fan.
You know, he's He's done the makeup effects for I
mean movies that I love, I mean absolutely love. I
think he is an incredible artist. I think, if I'm
being truthful, I don't think I fully appre sheated it

(46:00):
enough last time that I watched this because of my
I made it known last time that I did not
have a good time watching the movie. I felt show
up for like forty five minutes, no, and I felt it.
I felt it was long, I felt it was paced weird,
I felt it was edited weird. And I still feel
some of those things watching the movie now, but it's

(46:22):
almost like I've been able to adjust to some of
those things, and in doing so, I mean seeing being
able to appreciate Rick Baker's work more is something that
I always try to do no matter what.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
This has one of my favorite set pieces in all
of Werewolf cinema. It's one of my favorite world transformations,
not because of the sheer awesomeness of the effects. It's
not like an American world situation, but the actual setup
of the scene and how it's paced, how it shot,
everything is so perfect to me. Where he transforms in
front of all those snooty English doctors, who are you know,

(46:59):
going to examine him on the night of the full moon,
especially whoever's playing that that lead doctor who's being such
a dick the time? Yeah, right, And he just refuses
to turn around. He like, even though everybody is starting
to like doctor, doctor shove, what the fuck is that?

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Man?

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Before before we move on from Rick Baker, I am
just curious, do you have what do you think is
his finest work?

Speaker 2 (47:32):
I mean, that's a big question, and he was. It's
hard perfect man, and I can't let me rail off.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
A couple Let me rail off a couple of his
huge works that people would know him from. In case
somebody doesn't know Rick Baker.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
We've covered a few of his films on this channel,
including Batman Forever, this movie, The Wolf Man.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
He did King Kong that we covered on this channel.
He's also oh go ahead.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I was very generous with my praise you were of
his work, and I think I don't think you were
as generous as I was.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
I was not. But he also did the original Star Wars.
He did The Empire Strikes Back, one of my favorite
Christmas movie, How the Grinch Stool Christmas. He was involved
in American Werewolf in London as well, The Men in
Black Movies Coming to America and would Planet of the Apes,
the Funhouse, which we've talked about as well. I actually
didn't know he did The Funhouse until right now.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
You know. The sad truth is that probably his finest work,
not the best movie he worked on, but his finest
work is probably Planet of the Apes, Right.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I dude, I would honestly say, how the grin stool Christmas?

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Probably?

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I mean he had to design, he had to like
we're talking hundreds at times of extras, all in perfect
who makeup. I mean you could say Planet of the
Apes is definitely up there because of the sheer scale
of the makeup effects. But didn't he Okay, so he
also did Thriller and Thriller yeah is I mean?

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, Michael Jackson hired everybody who worked on an American
werelf in London to make.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Which is very very smart. He's done a lot of
wolf projects I'm seeing in his career, but he's uh,
I mean, look, he has said that he was a
huge Wolfman fan. He was inspired by the original film,
and he he not only wanted to do this movie,
but like jumped at the opportunity to do this when
he heard it was happening, he was like, can I
please do this? And they were like.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yes, right, And that's one of those other things like
in some ways this looked like a dream project, like
Nisio del Toro Academy Award winner Benisio del Toro is
starring in Lord. Salden Baker is doing the makeup, like
holy shit.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
And I mean Anthony Hopkins being like this dramatic dark
character in your Werewolf movie, like on the surface, why
wouldn't you want that? Ever?

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Embarrassed that I did not call the twist of him
being the villain. I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I just yeah, I know, but like we was a
kid to be fair, Yeah, you know, but I want
to I want to ask you about a certain aspect
of this movie, which is the the actual how the
scenery plays on camera, you know, how they how they
make how they put everything together, the lighting, the cinematography choices,

(50:26):
the fog, the gloom.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I think this is a very visually appealing movie. Uh.
I just have to say that right off the bat.
I mean, uh, we can we can nitpick some things. Uh.
I think I like the idea that this world runs
on all fours. But something about seeing seeing him run

(50:50):
through gloomy Victorian England, you know, like I just imagine
like him like meeting Heathcliff encounturing somebody from like a
Jane Eyre novel. Uh, this this Wolfman on all fours.
So yeah, you can nitpick some things. And what what

(51:13):
I think some snobs would say is that this movie
might want to look atmospheric, but it's clearly too much
of a studio product. You know, when you put this
against a Robert Agger's movie, you know, those movies are
deliciously atmospheric.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
But I.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
But hey, man, I I managed expectations. This is this
is a studio film, This is a Universal Studios film,
and they staked a lot in this this project. But
at the same time, you know, I think it stays
true two hammer Roger Korman. You know, uh, it's not

(52:00):
as it's not as much of a of a work
of art as like Sleepy Hollow. You know, in many
ways this is like the B movie Sleepy Hollow. But
you could do worse. You could do much worse. And
let me tell you, man, after after you know, a
two hour movie that's set at a at a farmhouse.

(52:23):
Uh my, my eyes are very pleased with this film.
Even though that's a well shot movie. The Leewindow Wolf
May they actually they shot it in rural Oregon, which is,
you know, one of the most beautiful geographical spots in
the in the continental United States, although they really only

(52:44):
reserved the most scenic parts of Oregon for the last
five minutes. I don't know why they did that, but yeah, no,
this movie, it's a it's professional, right. Joe Johnston is
a very professional director, although I understand he had his

(53:04):
hands tied on some things.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Speaking, I think that's a really good time to discuss
the CG. I think we have to discuss I think
we have to revisit that part because that's something that
in the first time we talked about this, we had
our ups and downs with and every time anybody talks
about this movie is a central focus of their discussion.

(53:27):
So this most recent time, and especially comparing and contrasting
with the new film that you've seen, I sort of
want to get your perspective on it first. For that reason,
where do you kind of stand this time around? Are
there things you softened on? Maybe you've hardened against some
of it? Where are you at now?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
I mean, I lament how much CG was used in
a movie that is trying to recreate the magic of
you know, the nineteen thirties and forties. But when you
read about the production troubles, it's it doesn't know, it
almost doesn't feel fair to criticize it. You can say

(54:05):
that it hurts your viewing experience. But for me, I
am somebody who does allow context to shape away watch
a movie. And you know, that can make me generous,
and it can also make me harsher. You know, when
you hear how lazy some productions are with their use
of CGI, you know, they they don't consider anything else.

(54:29):
And today when when a supposedly prestigious movie that's a
contender for Best Picture used AI to not only you know,
create you know, computer generated effects of of you know,
background elements, but they also used AI too to correct

(54:51):
the accents of its cast, right if you know, you
know what I'm talking about up. So yeah, in that case,
I'm like, really really that harshes me, you know, hardens
me against the movie. And when I hear about a

(55:14):
movie having production woes and problems, I'm grateful that they
you know, they brought on Rick Bakery. They let him
do his thing. He's not totally happy with the finished result,
but I think he is proud of ultimately of you
know what he created, and the movie is still a
showcase for that. There's interference and there's some janky shots,

(55:38):
and you know, in twenty twenty five not everything holds up.
But I don't know. I just don't. I don't feel
mad about it.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
I'll say this, especially this viewing the night setting does
help a lot with some of these sequences. Honestly, at
this point, the only thing that I believe is unforgivable,
and I'm gonna hold it against the movie a little
bit because of things that Joe Johnston said during production. Uh,
and that is the fact that Rick Baker was ready

(56:09):
and willing and able and practically begged to do a
to to be able to do a transformation sequence. And look,
I know he's got that chance before I get it,
but there is this sort of disconnection that I feel
when it's not done practically, Like there, I feel the

(56:33):
pain in more of this transformation when you can physically
see it happening, as opposed to it, I sort of
compare this transformation. And I say this unfairly, but if
you look at some of the shots, you'll kind of
understand what I'm saying. In Space Jam, when when the

(56:53):
little aliens steal the powers and they get real big,
and their spine starts popping out, and their muscles start
getting big and they start growing. It's kind of what
I feel like watching a CG Wherewolf transformation when compared
to how well it does for me personally as a
as a physical real uh you know, practical transformation would do.

(57:17):
But like I was pretty harsh on the CG before,
and I do think there are sequences that genuinely it enhances,
like where wolves jumping through the air is something that
I think is like you know, jump covering great distances
and lunging at things and like that is a very
animalistic thing to do if you're trying to get across.
It works well in.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
This This is a more supernatural Wherewolf than laun cheading
Junior with his uh. I believe it was Jack Pearce
who did his makeup, you know, bround breaking at the time.
But you know you're not gonna see that where Wolf,
uh you know, leap those those buildings or no or yeah,

(57:59):
throw people out from windows and they fall onto the
spikes and their their spying gets ripped ripped out. It's uh, yeah,
they they they used modern technology to realize some things
that would have been almost impossible when the original was produced.
And that to me is how you know, you know,

(58:21):
you shouldn't ignore this new technology. You should just use
it to execute ideas that would have been you know
that that you can only use with that technology, not
to make it a substitute for things that are really
integral to the texture of a film. You know, the
actual physical texture of you know, looking at a a

(58:47):
finished film, whether that be the production design, whether that
be the lighting, all of those things that add up
to create the actual uh visual presentation of a movie.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Listening George anyways in two thousand and five up in here. Uh,
but no, you know, I I I want to say,
like I I absolutely feel that way this time, you
know watching the movie. Uh, I don't. I don't believe
every single time that the CGI was used, you know,

(59:22):
it enhanced the experience. But it's gonna come down to
something that I'm gonna say in my final verdict. Uh,
you know, with with watching this movie again, about having
fair expectations, especially after having seen it before. You know,
I think we can all be a little kinder to

(59:42):
many of the CG sequences. Uh. The only one that
I really have a hard time warming up to is
the transformation sequence. I just don't think it is enhanced
with with CGI. I think there is a really and
even even as recent as as the movie Trick or Treat,
you know, they did a very different version of a
Werewold transformation, but it's still feel. It still felt very real,

(01:00:05):
it felt tangible, it felt like something that you were
actually watching. Maybe that's unfair of me, but that's that's
the only sequence that I can really say I would
rather have the movie without it, despite what everything else
it is. There's some things that I want to say,
but I think transitioning that into a final verdict would

(01:00:25):
probably be easier, So I think that's what we should do.
As to remind everybody, this was again a revisited episode
of the fourth ever Not That Bad episode, covering The
Wolfman from twenty ten. For the first time ever on
our show, I gave the film a that bad rating,

(01:00:46):
and our friend Gabe here gave the film not that bad.
It'll be interesting to see if those hold up following
our discussion. Following our revisit to this film, I want
to start with you since you do have directly not
only did you give this film a more positive rating
last time. But you also have a longer history with

(01:01:06):
the Wolfman character and have seen now more properties than
I have.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Seen every version of the Wolfman.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I guess, so I think you're the most qualified to deliver,
to redeliver a final verdict. And let's see if you've
let's see where you used to stand.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Well, now that you've laid out my credentials to len
my expertise, right, so so so so so I'm trying
to not be silly about this. I'm trying to be
like critical or objective or whatever. But the truth is

(01:01:45):
I miss I miss the time that this represents. I
miss a time when this movie could be considered a disappointment.
And you know, this is a robust, well fed movie, okay,
And we are starving in America for were wolf movies

(01:02:10):
like this. It is not embarrassed at all to be
a werewolf movie or to be a remake of you know,
an old movie that most people haven't seen in a
very very long time, if they ever cared about it.
It man, it whethered so many production woes by the
time it got out to theaters. It was basically a

(01:02:32):
beaten dog and an embarrassment that everybody wanted to just
write off. Right, But man, I just wish we could
go back to this, to whatever this was. And I
guess I should be more mad at this movie for
kind of killing everything I'm talking about, right, But it

(01:02:59):
was the last gasp of that classic, you know, adoration
of gothic horror, of you know, movies that had the
old black and white universal logo instead of the modern one. Gosh,

(01:03:19):
I don't even know what to call this whole network
of films. I'm trying because in my head, this is
also like dark Man. This is like but dark Band
represents to me. But I can only say that the
critic in me still has problems with this movie. But

(01:03:41):
the traumatized monster movie fan in me, the traumatized word
we'll fan in me says this is an actually good
if ever i've seen one. Okay, still not actually great,
but I kind of cherish this movie now. I want
to hold it close to my chest and say, don't

(01:04:01):
take it away from me. Because we did not know
how bad things were gonna get after this movie came out.
We just didn't know yet.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
I'm hey, frankly, I'm glad to hear it. It's really
cool to to hear that position change. I guess we'll
I guess we'll see if I land there. I don't.
I don't. Look we've been pretty positive, I think overwhelmingly
in this episode compared to our last one. One of
the things that you said before delivering your last final
verdict was that you said more bad things about good things,

(01:04:34):
and that the good things did have some you know,
asterisk next to them, or they they frequently, you know,
kind of stepped on themselves. And that's something that I
don't necessarily disagree with, but that this time, when watching
I think I think I had a bit of a
different experience because the first couple of times that I
watched this movie, I think I focused a little too

(01:04:58):
heavily on what the film wasn't as opposed to what
it was. I was upset that this film didn't have
more horror elements and didn't have a play on the
terror that I feel like a were wolf would have.
As a kid who was genuinely terrified of were wolves,
I thought they were going to kill I thought it
was going to be a huge problem in my life

(01:05:19):
as I got older. Obviously, you know that didn't pan
out but not yet. Still a chance. But you know,
obviously I've talked about where I think CGI was necessary
and where I think it wasn't. I've talked about, you know,
issues that I have with the character development and the
execution of story elements, and I do have those problems. Still,

(01:05:43):
that's not something that's gone from this movie. But man, like,
there's just a charm that it had during this rewatch
that just made me appreciate it so much more than
I ever had before work. I still can't stand by
this and say that I recommend it to everybody, because

(01:06:05):
I don't think it is one of those movies that
everybody will have fun with or enjoy or whatever. But definitively,
last time I said I didn't have a good time
watching it, I had a decent time. I think that
this movie has some things going for it that honestly,
none of the other Monster movie remakes have had going
for it so far. I think it's far from the

(01:06:25):
best iteration I think, honestly, to me, that belongs to
Lewan Ells Invisible Man. I love that movie dearly. I
think when you're remaking a classic universal Monsters movie, if
you're going to bring it to the modern age. It's
a great way to do it. But for now, like,
I gave this movie and that bad last time, and

(01:06:47):
it's not that bad. It's it's not that bad at all.
I've softened greatly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
I could too, and just with's some time and with
some other really media yocre monster movies in between those recordings,
I knew I could get it out of you, right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
I mean, it's hard. It's hard to criticize this movie
after American Werewolf in Paris. It's very difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
That's a great question, Like where does this rank for
me in that whole league of universal monster remix I
think it ranks pretty highly. I think it does. I
know it. I know. I like it more than Mary
Shelby's Frankenstein. I like it more than Brand Soaker Stracula,
which is probably the most heretical thing I have to say.

(01:07:36):
I do not dig that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
I don't really love it either.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Uh it it's very off putting to me in none
of the ways that I think we're intended by by
mister Coppola. I like it more than The Invisible Man.
I guess I kind of tried to bury this, but
I'm not a huge and of that movie. I respect

(01:08:02):
it more than I like it, but I don't think
it's aged that well for me. Oh yeah, interesting when
I go through the rest of the list. I mean,
if you count hollow Man as an Invisible Man remake,
I guess I like Hollowman a little bit more, but
not by much.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Right, So I do love the first two Mummy movies
if you want to. I know that they're not very
horror satry, but I do believe they are considered a
remake of the original Mummy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
They are, But I'm gonna be a little stricter here
because I don't think that's I don't see the point
in comparing The Wolfman.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
To the They're very different styles of movies, right, you
could compare the twenty seventeen Mummy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
So guess which one I like more. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I don't know which one you could appreciate more. There,
that's weird movie.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
The weird thing is that these remakes of you reversal
monster movies, they always had huge, huge talent, Like there
was no reason that they should have been able to
be you know, home runs, and I can't think of
a home run they're They're like with any of these

(01:09:19):
titles you bring up, I can think of a major
flaw that they have, you know, usually more.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
So, I personally would consider Invisible Man a home run.
I love that movie. I I did have some issues
with it here and there, but overall I thought it
was it was it was pretty well executed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
The Invisible Man was to me, it was a double
a ok, not triple, but a double, which, hey, that's
you know, you're halfway there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
I thought it was a home run, but it was
one of those that's just over the fence, you know,
like where it could have been caught. You know, the
fielder just didn't didn't jump up high enough to get it.
It just over the fence.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
To me. And this is I guess the reason I
have a big soft spot for the movie. This movie
remembers that the best part of these movies is the
titular monster, and that's something that a lot of these
other adaptations, especially the modern ones, really dropped the ball on.
I mean, you know, the Invisible Man. I just can't

(01:10:20):
love that movie because I find the actual Invisible Man
to be such a non entity in that movie. And
I just don't accept the idea that now we're past
the point where like, these are characters, you know, these
monsters are characters instead, are these you know, metaphors or allegories?
I mean they already were. The Wolfman is a perfect allegory.

(01:10:42):
It was the original The Wolfman was written by a
German screenwriter who fled Nazi Germany and made the Wolfman
an allegory for Nazism.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Well, I'll say this, I think if any character works
in that way, that's what I did. I actually enjoyed
that about The Invisible Man because it did sort of
play on this like I think, I don't feel I
don't feel the tragedy as much in an Invisible Man

(01:11:13):
as I would a wolf Man. I think making him
the villain and putting the focus on another character makes
sense for that character. But that said, if they were
to do that with a Wolfman movie, I would not
be a big fan of that, Nor would I be
a fan if they did that with like a Dracula
or anything like that. Not that they can't make Dracula
this mysterious kind of jump scary figure, but there has

(01:11:36):
to be more to the character than that. Than what
they did with the Invisible Man. I think it only
works with that particular character.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
I guess to me, the only reason in the world
other than money, to remake these movies and bring back
these characters is because they are great characters. That's what
I want to say. I want to see them treated
as great characters. That doesn't mean you can't reinvent them

(01:12:05):
for the modern age. I mean, I welcome that in
large part. But right, I mean that that's just how
much of a little freak I was for those movies
and how much they mattered to me. I mean, it's like,
don't remake Hamlet and make you know, make them an

(01:12:25):
extra so we can focus on whoever. I mean, I
guess that's something they do for these for these kind
of these like rosen Krantz and Guildenstern, those type type
of interesting projects. But don't call it Hamlet, right Rosan
and Guildenstern is not called Hamlet, all right? Because we
we know if we market this as Hamlet, this perfectly

(01:12:47):
fun movie is going to be ruined for a lot
of people.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Yeah, And I sympathize with that. And like I said,
you know, there are characters that I think that doesn't
work for. It sounds like there are some recent movies
that might have done something like that. So not I's
incredibly thrilled about that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
But you know, I think I like Wolfman lewand El's
Wolfman a little more than The Invisible Man, because I mean,
oh it, I mean the titular character is a character
Christoph Rabbitt has given a chance to give quite a performance,
you know, not not as much as he could have
with a more developed character. But still you know there's

(01:13:26):
an actor playing this role and you can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
And I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Hope that the new movie when I watch it, I
hope I come away feeling similarly to how you feel.
I really like I said, I don't like to not
like movies, which is partially why I don't watch a
lot of movies now. But you know, we'll see where
it goes. For now, though, I think we had a
pretty good We had a I don't know, I had

(01:13:58):
a good time for visiting this. That's kind of I'm
glad we brought it up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
This was up thet I I love the positivity that
you know, twenty tens the wolf Man really you know,
can bring into your life.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
I think we need this, look, I know, I hope
to bring I hope to bring as much positivity to
this show in twenty twenty five as possible. I'm not
to say I'm not going to be critical to these
to these movies on occasion it's it's necessary. But luckily,
you know, I think that's pretty easy because that's been
our mission statement since day one. You know, this is

(01:14:33):
our first episode of twenty twenty five, our third year
creating on this on this channel, even though it's gone
through its evolutions. But I'm excited for what this year
is going to bring, and if this episode's any indication,
I'm I'm gonna have a lot of fun with it too.
So I, for one, I just want to thank anybody

(01:14:53):
who's still here thanks for listening to this episode and
having a good time with us. Of course you're new,
I want to thank you for finding us and encourage
you to like, to comment, to subscribe, to share. Sharing
is huge, Sharing is caring. So putting us in our
content into the hands of someone you love or someone

(01:15:16):
you hate, depending on how you feel about us, would
be tremendous. And it's not the only way you can
support us, Gabe. How else can the people support us
if they if they really, if they like us, like us,
you know, what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Well, if you want to take the steps to the
next level, there's a couple If you want to take
this to the next level, there's a couple of ways
you can do that. You can go to our Patreon
and subscribe. Subscribe for a multitude of tears that will
get you multitude of a multi a multitude of rewards.

(01:15:58):
Question mark there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Yeah, you can get a ton of stuff on our Patreon.
You can get exclusive stickers at a certain tier or above.
But luckily, if you like our content and you are
doing it to support our content, we have exclusives over
on Patreon as well, which you get access to at
any tier. Now, these exclusives sometimes will stay on Patreon
for good, depending on how much time we have in

(01:16:22):
our hands, and now frequently we can release episodes. But
there are still episodes on Patreon right now that have
never been seen by anyone else before. So if you
want access to that, that is any tier on our
Patreon that you can subscribe to. But if you want
to keep up with the latest for us and still
support us without giving us your money, times are tough.
We get it, everybody gets it. You can head to

(01:16:44):
our website that badmedia dot com, where we have information
not only about the founding of that bad media and
this show not that bad, the one that started at all,
but several other things that we have going on on
the channel as well, including archives, season breaks, everything that
you can want about us, we'll be on there. Your
two favorite bad take artists, and plenty of unsanctioned buffoonery

(01:17:08):
to go around. So please support us if you like us.
If you hate us, still leave a hate comment. We
like those two anyways.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Whenever we get one of those, Yes, we.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Have lots of fun discussing them, and you help our engagement,
So keep it up. And is there anything else you'd
like to say before you take us out? My friend?

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Oh hey, it's a new year, everybody, stay safe. It's
gonna be it's gonna be an opportunity to grow, it's
gonna be an opportunity to learn, and most importantly, we
get to continue to be a yeah, a part of
this world and enjoy everything that life has to offer,

(01:17:53):
especially Werewolf movies.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
So yeah, and wake up every day wanting to be
better than the day for.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
And yeah, that's uh, that's about it for this episode.
And oh you can I'll potentially edit this out depending
on the timing of things, but you can look forward
to a very different type of content from us in
the future, because there's been a whole separate lane that
Connor and I have been exploring, and I think we're

(01:18:23):
ready to uh maybe maybe take uh take a new
adventure on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
We got some we have, we have some some plans,
We've we've got some things that we're looking to do.
Uh this this year, we're looking to make it the
biggest year in that Bad Media's history. And we can
think of no better way to do that than to
continue to grow, continue to expand our content, and continue
to expand our horizons on what we're willing to discuss
and to uh to make content on. So keep your

(01:18:55):
eyes peeled. We have things coming.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Our social media will be the best place to keep
up with when and where, But we hope you'll stick
around and have some fun with it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Right, well, until next time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Then until next time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Oh, I'm Gabe, I am Connor, And it has been
way too long since we recorded one of these, all right, Yeah,
that's that's not that bad. Like that
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