The Crow: City of Angels - Weinstein Strikes Again

"The Crow" remake starring Bill Skaarsgaard is on the horizon, so Gabe and Connor look at the last theatrical movie in the franchise: "The Crow: City of Angels." Forced to become an anthology series after the tragic loss of Brandon Lee, The Crow franchise flopped so hard with this second effort that the series went straight-to-video afterwards. That's largely thanks to meddling from everyone's favorite guy, Harvey Weinstein, who butchered the original vision by director Tim Pope and screenwriter David S. Goyer.

Still, after the mediocore-to-spectacularly awful sequels that came afterwards, some fans appreciate this flick's style and consider it a worthy successor to the beloved original. So Gabe and Connor ask if COA was DOA, or if there's something to be salvaged in this strange concoction of BDSM, Nu Metal, and smog. Oh, and Iggy Pop.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
We all have our pleasures. Mine is the pain of others.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Shout out to that guy, whoever he is, because he
is an alumnus of That Bad Media. He was also
in Wes Craven's Shocker, which okay for the first episode
of Black Sheep Theater.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yes, your your series, Black Sheep Theater, which is a
great watch if anybody hasn't seen that, by the way,
one of the many new and exciting things coming to
and featuring on the That Bad Media channel. As Gabe
attempts to hide his lacroix, we are Oh boy, this
should be an interesting one today. You have you, in

(01:00):
this case, are the bringer of Death, bringing Crow City
of Angels to the show. Talk a little bit about
why you're doing this today. Why besides the fact that no.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Small shit shadow. He just wants me to answer.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
For Yeah, I need to answer for the answer for
your crimes, Gabe.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Okay, let me start by mentioning why we're talking about
the Crow franchise. It's because there's a Crow remake coming
out in uh just under a month from the time
that we're recording.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Game's Not All.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
It stars Bill Scarsgard and is a remake of the
first movie and a new adaptation of the original comic
by James O'Barr. The Crow is one of those comic
book movies that the movie has overshadowed the comic book
that it's based on. So oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.

(02:01):
We have a new Crow movie coming out for the
first time in I don't know two decades, and the
first theatrical Crow movie to come out since this movie
that we're here to talk about. The Crow City of Angels,
released in nineteen ninety before I was born, so BG.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
It was released before Gabe and before me as well
before Connor BC. I Now I'm curious. You know you
mentioned the original Crow movie obviously is something of legend
now because of the tragedy surrounding the film, the tragic
loss of the son of Bruce Lee, Brandon Lee during
the filming of the movie. First film tragedy aside is beloved.

(02:45):
Like you said, it sort of transcended what came before
it as far as like the comic book works, it
sort of became bigger, more well known. Some people are
not even aware that The Crow is a comic book movie.
I'm curious with you though, you know clearly you have
some kind of his street that we're going to get
into with City of Angels as we go through the
episode for you to bring it here, but do you

(03:06):
have any history with its predecessor, with the first Crow
film starring Brandon Lee.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Honestly, if people want to hear my full thoughts on
The Crow and how much that movie means to me,
because it means more to me than most movies do, honestly,
I recommend checking out an article I wrote about The
Crow for Dread Central. I wrote this piece reminiscing on
The Crow for its thirtieth anniversary this year, So I'll

(03:34):
link that below because there I go into my you know,
my full thoughts in that movie, and gosh, I don't
know what else there is to say about The Crow either.
You know how amazing of a film it is and
how devastating of a tragedy that it is. That you know,

(03:55):
an accident on the set took the life of Brendan Lee,
who I swear would have become a breakout star because
of that movie. A lot of people are skeptical of
that claim. A lot of people think that and you
hear this, but youth ledgers Joker too, which I think
is an insane claim to make that it's because they

(04:17):
died that we revere those performances so much. Not the case.
It's certainly not the case for youth ledgers. Joker and
I maintained that that would have been a breakout movie
for Brendan Lee and he would have escaped the shadow
of just being Bruce Lee's son, which is, you know,
largely what he was to people by the time he died.

(04:40):
But that's the first movie, acclaimed, celebrated, cult classic. That's
not the movie we're here to talk about. We're here
to talk about the sequel, The Crow City of Angels,
which does not star Brendan Lee. For obvious reasons, he
was signed on to do sequels. He had, I believe,

(05:01):
a three picture contract. But the first film was such
a hit despite Brendan Lee's death, So the overlords at Mirramax,
the you know, the rogues gallery that runs that ship
over there back in the nineties, decided that they were

(05:24):
still gonna keep pumping out sequels no matter what, no matter,
no matter how many lead actors died making these movies.
I will give them credit for not recasting the role
of Eric Draven and instead going an anthology route. From
here on out, these Crow sequels are all anthology movies
following a new protagonist who's brought back from the dead

(05:51):
from beyond to get their revenge. So at least they
went that route and not recast Eric Draven, which would
have been unthinkable. That being said, I'm sure it's going
to be exciting to see what Bill Scarsgar does with
the role now that they're re making the franchise and
rebooting it. But that's a different conversation. So yeah, let

(06:14):
me just say about the Crow Sadieve Angels that of
all the sequels, this is the only one I watched,
you know, consistently. This is one that I owned and
one that you know, I never I never liked as
much as the original, which would be quite a tall feat.
But you know, despite the fact that I knew this

(06:36):
movie had serious shortcomings and you know, could not reach
the heights of the original, Yeah, I still I still watched.
It was always on rotation, and I embraced it. I
embraced it as as the true sequel to this. I
know there are some Crow Salvation fans out there, and

(07:00):
that's a decent movie for you know, being a direct
to video sequel, but this is my preferred pro sequel.
Not that that is saying much.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Uh yeah, I don't know that it does. But you
know that that said, this is you know, this was
always gonna be tough. I did learn and I I
want to say this upfront. Uh, this is not an
episode I was looking forward to. This is an episode
I at at times protested and uh, you know, I
will say this have lead up to this episode. You know,

(07:34):
we we we're not totally unprepared coming into these things.
We do a little bit of research. We look up
certain things about the behind the scenes of the movie
and seeing the amount of respect from the people that
were behind this film, you know, besides a key producer
who will be coming up throughout.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
The Harvey Scissorhands.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, Harvey Scissorhands here he besides you know that particular person,
you know, hearing what everybody had to say of you know,
not only trying to pay respects to Brandon Lee after
the first film, but also to fans of the Crow.
From everything I heard, they took a lot of feedback
from fans online, which does not happen a lot.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
You know, especially not back then. What you know in
the mid nineties.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
And nowadays it happens, but it doesn't happen the way
that you'd think. It's more so like, oh, this this
actor did something you guys don't like. Well, we're gonna
take them out of everything they've ever been in, ever
and everything that they're supposed to be in the future.
Sometimes deserves sometimes not. But letting the fans influence the
story of your film to the to the extent of

(08:47):
fully replacing a character out of respect to the original actor,
I think is a really cool thing. And you know,
to see the original writer supposed to come back, tried
to write the script but just couldn't couldn't do it
without thinking of Brandon, and so he decided to step away.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
And the director Alex Proyas and the director considered returning
for the sequel, but they just couldn't do it after
the tragedy of what happened with Brandon Lee, and so
they respectfully departed. Although they did give this movie their blessing,
they did endorse the possibility of a sequel. I don't

(09:24):
know what they have to say about the final result
of this sequel. I rarely hear a kind word said
about this movie. So and Alex Proyus is a very
blunt man with his opinions, you know, to a fault
if you see any of his activity on social media,
so I can only imagine what he would have to say. Regardless,

(09:45):
they do bring back a number of people from the
original movie, they don't bring back any of the cast members,
although we do have a returning character we have, and
they don't really ever address this ye so explicitly, at
least not in the final cut. But you know, to fans,

(10:07):
it's obvious that the woman here, Sarah is is the
little girl from the first movie, and she's been recast
now with the actress from The L Word. Her name
escapes me, but she went on to.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Nay Kershner, I know her not another teen movie, which, yeah,
quite a funny parody from the Chris Evans is in
that that's weird, that's kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Was that his was that his first big thing?

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Probably his first big thing. I would say I was
really shocked when I it was one of those movies.
You know, those movies where you know you're you're you're
in your teens and you're home from school and you're like, man,
I don't just need something to do. I saw that
movie and I was like, oh, that looks like, you know,
like a scary movie type, you know, like parody movie.
So I clicked on it, and boy, oh boy, was
it ever. I actually actually really enjoy it. But yeah,

(10:56):
she's she's from that. I recognize her. Immediately. Something in
my head was telling me, don't say that that's Amy
Adams on the show. I don't know why Amy Adams
was coming into my head, but Mia Kershner is the
name of this actress.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yes, okay, don't It's like, don't think of a pink elephant,
don't say any Adams.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
I know, I don't know why. It's like the first
time I saw her, I went, why do I keep
thinking of Amy Adams? I know this not Amy Adams.
And I looked up who it was and I said, oh, okay, yeah,
I know, I know who she is a lot. But
it just totally totally blanked out of my head when
I was watching this. And I don't know why Amy
Adams was the actress that came up in my head.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Now, let's talk about some familiar faces in the cast here,
because we got a big one. Oh yeah, big do
you believe that this movie was my introduction to mister
Iggy Pop. This is this movie introduced me to Iggy Pop.
I was I was always befuddled. Who is this strange
blonde man that they recruited to play the heavy in

(12:01):
this film?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
He's out there.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
And I look it up. Oh he's one of the
most celebrated punk rock artists of all time. Okay, cool god.
That definitely elevated the movie because his performance does not,
although I do, I do really get a kick out
of some of his line deliveries. You think of a Ford,

(12:27):
You think of a Ford.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Oh dude, This is the most accidentally quotable movie of
all time, in my opinion, and.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
I think there are some pretty kick ass lines here.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Honestly, I'm surprised to hear you say that about Iggy
Pop because he was the performance I enjoyed the most
besides one other one, which.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I enjoy it. But it's not.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
You got to have proper context to fully appreciate a performance. Yes, no,
you do when you think, you know, oh my god,
they like, here's an aspiring actor. He's got to make
a good impression, and this is how he's delivering that line.
You know, that's a very different context than Oh it's
it's Iggy Pop taking the piss out of you know

(13:14):
this this weird s and m Crow sequel. So it's
all it's again. It goes back to the theory of relativity.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Trademark wow theory. Yeah, theory of relativity. It's been a
minute since that's come up on the show. Happy to
see it return. It is like a returning member of
the cast.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
This is a great example of that, right because compared
to the first Crow movie, is this movie excellent? No,
it's not. Compared to the Crow Crow Wicked Prayer? Is
this movie excellent? It's It is one of the best
things I've ever seen. Compared to the Crow Wicked Prayer.
At least this crow is not wearing sharpie.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Sometimes it looks like he's wearing sharpie, but I guess
we'll get there. Speaking of the.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Other performance that you did enjoy.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Uh it was, uh, correct me if I'm wrong. But
the big battie in this one, it's Judah, right, Judah Yeah, yeah,
the one that we alluded to in our little intro. Yeah,
Oh my god. Uh saved the viewing experience for me.
I was laughing at every single thing that came out
of that man's mouth.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Oh you were laughing. I actually thought he was a
pretty intimidating screen presence, his character as wacky as hell. Yeah,
one of the wacky, one of the cooler, just one
of the cooler voices, one of the cooler you know,
screen presences in this movie, for sure, And I would

(14:42):
compare him favorably to Top Dollar. Uh. You know. One
of the one of the critiques against the original Crow,
and I'm sympathetic to this critique, is that the villains
aren't They're definitely not the strong part. And they don't
they're they're not very well developed. It's just like, oh,

(15:02):
let's let's get Michael Win caught that guy with the
really cool voice, and here it's it's the same casting decision.
Let's just get a guy with a really cool voice.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
I don't even I can't even say. I mean, I
could say, maybe in another role with some with some
better uh, with some better dialogue, and maybe he would
not be I just like everything that the guy said,
I just found absolutely hilarious, and I'm like, I was
really concerned about how this movie was going to go.

(15:35):
I said, Oh, man, like this is your bad guy,
you know, like this is your bad guy. And I'm
and I'm like, he's the funniest. He's already making me
laugh like minutes into the movie. Uh, even when he's
being intimidating, like he kills that guy with with his
own drug, and I'm laughing, like it's funny to me.

(15:58):
And uh, I'll get into it a little bit more
as we go, as we as we you know, see
more of him.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
But yeah, I mean, what an amazing voice he has
for this kind of movie.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, let's let's start at the beginning, right, So we're
now in Los Angeles. The first movie was in Detroit. Yeah,
and in the movie makes a really good impression on me.
And I'll get my my biggest positive by far out
of the way. I just love the mood of this movie.
I always saw that, the aesthetic, the style. I mean,

(16:33):
it makes total sense that this is made by a
music video director. It's it's I love the fog, this
kind of yellow tint. It looks like piss and I
doomed that as a compliment. It's just this. It it
goes at this whole seedy urban vibe in a completely

(16:56):
different way than the first movie. Did. That movie was monochrome.
It was like, ah, you know, almost like German expressionism,
and this movie is incomparable. I've seen very few films
the as as off putting as this movie is, you know,

(17:17):
for the mainstream franchise that this was so already just
from the the opening shot, I'm digging the vibe of
the movie, which matters a lot for a guy like me.
Then we're almost immediately introduced to our new crow. He
rises out of the water lake like Jesus, one of

(17:39):
the many subtle, very subtle moments the film incredible. Let's
let's talk about our new crow, our new not Eric
draamn ash ash Corvin. Right, yes, that's correct. I almost
called him ash Row. I'm gonna call him ash Crow.

(18:03):
And by he's played by Vincent Perez. Tell me your thoughts,
did miss Did mister Perez do a good job?

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Uh? No, no, you know, I And it's really hard.
I almost kind of feel bad for him.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I feel very bad for him.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Yeah, because like he doesn't so I I know him
from Queen of the Damned, which is an okay movie. Uh,
you know, I got no problems with it. I think
he I think he's you know, he's pretty good. I
don't think any I don't think any reason he was cast.
I don't think anything surrounding his casting. I don't think

(18:48):
anything worked for him in this movie. The script didn't
work for him. The fact that he looked reasonably enough
like they were trying to replace Brandon Lee, he didn't
work for him. The fact that his makeup wasn't great
didn't work for him. It felt like a pretty big downgrade.

(19:09):
There were some scenes where I think it looked okay,
but some scenes, like I alluded to it earlier, I
think it does look like somebody just drew it on
with a sharpie, and not nearly as much as later
as a later Crow movie. But man, like a common
theme for me, and this is going to be line delivery.

(19:31):
I think it's so important when you have a character
like the Crow who's just honestly saying cool shit. I mean,
like that's a big part of the Crow character, at
least for me. In the first movie, it's just like
this dude just says and does cool shit throughout pretty
much the whole run time, and none of it connects
for me. Now I'm curious with you, because you you

(19:51):
do enjoy this movie a little bit more than I do,
probably a lot more than I do. Does he stand
out for you at all? Is there something that you
can highlight? Maybe you can change my mind on something.
Regarding Vincent Perez's performances as the.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Crow, I'll just say that Lady Luck is a bitch.
Now he's I allude to the fact that I think
there are some bangers in this script. There are some
good one niners from both both our our baddies. Iggy
Pop gets a couple of fun moments, and you know,
it's hit or miss with with our main character, but

(20:26):
he gets some good ones. There are some great exchanges
man like do you know how to fight? Do you
know how to die? And I like his line delivery
because he's so like his accent is so thick that
you gotta listen pretty carefully, so it's not over it's
not overwrought. You know, he's not like, he's not one

(20:49):
of those actors who takes a line like that and
tries to rank every ounce of uh of cool out
of it, like Steven Seagal. He's he's probably learned think
his lines phonetically.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Oh my god, now I'm just thinking of Steven Sigal
as the crow, and how badly I want to see
how terrible that would be.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
That that makes one of us.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh my god, do it now? Do it now with
his fucking gigantic gut in his dumb fake go tee,
and and the fact that he always sits down for
the entire runtime his movies. Now, just do it now.
I want I just want to see how terrible.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
That would be.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Please do it now. I'm begging anybody to put this mother.
He's useless in everything. Please just put him in his.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
He's useless in real life and in international diplomatic affairs.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
And oh and he needs to keep his hands to himself.
Uh and and figure out where his ethnic background is.
But anyways, uh.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, ambiguous ethnic backgrounds Vincent Perez. I I'm going to
defend the guy. I he was given a fake task,
man like.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
And dude, he was just thrown to the fucking wolves,
man like. They they that, you know, as much sympathy
as I have for these filmmakers, you know, trying to
follow up such a legendary performance. Something's gonna live on forever,
both in in in you know, infamy, and in legend, right,
and you gotta follow it up and I talked about

(22:21):
feeling sympathetic for him earlier, but boy, oh boy, did
they just put this guy in the in the fucking
gladiator arena with no weapons and no armor. He is
fucked from minute one, dude.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
So my my experience watching the film is different. I
I like our kind of window into his grief, right
because the original Chrome movie Eric Draven, he's reawoken, reawoken, reawakened, revitalized,

(22:57):
you know, one of those is right, and uh, he know,
he's a very solitary character. There's a very little way
to get inside his head. You know, nobody's thinking. There
was originally a character in the original Crow that could
have served that role of the audience surrogate the skull cowboy,

(23:19):
and those deleted scenes are available online. Check them out.
Don't know how they would have fit into the movie,
but they look cool.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
But this guy, he has Sarah, the girl from the
first movie, to help guide him along. She's the one
who finds him and it's like she's been tasked to
help this new reborn soul, you know, find his way,
help get his vengeance. Here's where the original script and

(23:48):
the final cut differs. So much is that this was
originally the heart of the story, their relationships, Sarah and Ash.
It was going to be a romance. You know. It's
not a wife or a girlfriend who dies, it's his son, Yeah,
who's killed with him, which already I thought was a
really interesting change from you know, the formula of the

(24:09):
first movie. So yeah, I felt more sorry for him
than I was intimidated or thought. I thought he was cool,
but there was pathos there, right, And did I root
for him to kill? You know, Iggy Pop and the
Yellow Power Ranger. Yeah, you bet, I did. You bet
I did. By the way, there's a curse on this franchise.

(24:36):
That actress, the Yellow Power Ranger. I think she died.
I think she died in a pretty terrible way shortly
after this movie.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
It wasn't long, you know, And she's she's one that
you know, has often talked about as well as just
kind of tragic losses in Hollywood. You know, it just
it just it sucks. Yeah, I hope, I hope it's
not a curse on the Crow franchise because there, like
you said, there's a new movie coming out. I think
we should well dedicate We'll probably dedicate you know, a

(25:04):
minute or two at the end of the episode to
just sort of discuss our thoughts pre release on that uh,
you know, coming out soon at the time of recording here,
but uh man, oh boy, uh, I don't even know
where to take this from here? Where do you?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Okay? So he's he sent on his merry way, his
mission of vengeance to you know, get the bastards who
killed him and his son. Now he rides a motorcycle
and one of those the great visual motifs of the
movie is that his trench coat kind of the the
tales of it flap like like wings as he's riding

(25:45):
down the street. Just a couple of motifs like that
go a really long way from me, because, let's be honest,
you know, the crow, We're not here for the story necessarily.
It's pretty formulaic.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
A lot of people mean that as a criticism. I don't.
I think it's a great foundation for an audio visual experience.
And so far this movie is chugging along on that
just you know, the way it establishes the mood, the
way it establishes this really really grimy tone. But then

(26:20):
we finally start with the action, right, and the question
is how does the movie handle that? The answer is uneven.
I'm being kinder than I guess you're gonna be. Who's
the first guy he kills? Is it that monkey? The
monkey guy?

Speaker 3 (26:41):
I think so?

Speaker 2 (26:43):
In the warehouse and he's kind of jumping around the barrels.
I didn't mind that it didn't really play out. I
think the way most people want it. I think people
just want, you know, the the cool one liner, the
walking away from an explosion. I don't think the way
this character plays around with his victims satisfies a lot

(27:06):
of viewers. I think it's kind of cool because he
is clearly a deranged person, an unbalanced person. I'm talking
about the corow here.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Uh says things that don't make sense. Whether that's poor screenwriting,
poor delivery, or you know, some kind of miracle factor.
It just I don't know. It works. It works for me,
especially in this scene he gives the guy a chance
to uh to escape. He does this fun little card tricks.
I like fun card tricks as sue me. So I'm

(27:39):
not enchanted with with all of this stuff or anything,
but like it works. It's not terrible.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
It's bad. I mean, I mean, I mean, look I
you know, I'm trying to find a nice way to
say this. I don't like to come into a movie
and be negative likely I really you know me, and
you know that when I watch a film, I start
with a high rating because I want it to have

(28:11):
a high rating. You know, I want things. If you
start with a low rating, then the movie has a
long way to go to get to a high rating.
Whereas if you start with a high rating, you know
the movie it's got a lot of chances to redeem itself.
And it's why I have so many positive reviews on
my letterbox. If anybody follows me on there or anybody
goes through it, a majority of my reviews are three
stars plus and I try to watch any movie being positive.

(28:36):
But sometimes a movie comes along and nothing that they
do that is supposed to be good works for me.
And this isn't quite that far. There are really good
things about this movie. The action is not one of them.
The kills are not one of them. If it's not

(28:58):
downright silly for me, then it's it just is. I
don't know if it's if poorly executed is the right word,
poorly planned camp He's definitely a word that fits and
campy works. You know, there are situations where like camp
can really work towards your movie and help it. The

(29:19):
issue that I have with it in this movie, though,
is that it feels like it doesn't fit. I don't
think a cro movie should be campy. Maybe assume me.
I don't know. I mean Batman, I think is a
character that's dark and tragic, but there's humor in certain
things about Batman.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
But I don't know that just because the first movie
was so gothic, and I don't I.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Think it's more so like like what it's the direct
story that we're following in the movie, right, Like if
this were you know, Eric Draven, right, and he's still
and let's just say he was a well no, hear
me out. Here's what I'm saying. Here's where camp could
work if it's still Eric Draven and his role now

(30:01):
moving forward is to be this sort of like night
vigilante who stops tragedies from happening, like what happened to him. Right,
Let's say they went that direction. Brandon Lee survives and
that's the direction that they go, And I could see
eventually camp working because now our lead character, our hero
is disconnected enough from the events happening that Camp could work.

(30:24):
This guy they killed his son, man like, that's how
this movie start.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
He's unhinged, and sometimes that's played for not not comedy,
but but camp. It's it's This movie has a lot
of flairs to it. It's a bit of a flamboyant
movie at times, and he has a bit of a
flamboyant perform I just want to say this.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
We talked about the Camp and how it didn't fit
for me. I'm a little surprised that that we're not
in the same boat here because a little while ago
we talked about a movie.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Oh no, I know what you're gonna bring up.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
We talked about a movie that a camp and in
disturbing comparison out of the way, Yeah, let's do it.
Punish Your War Zone is a movie that we covered
on this channel during series. If you want to go
watch it, by the way, that's originally behind our Patreon vault.
It is free to watch on our YouTube channel right now,
So go check it out if you're interested to see
me and Gabe kind of go go tit for tat.

(31:21):
While talking about that movie.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Let me let me address the allegations, right, because I
know where you're going with this, and on paper, on paper,
you have a point.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
My problem with Punish Your War Zone isn't that it's campy.
It's that it's obnoxious.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Okay, okay, okay. But here's the thing. One of the
things that I remember is that you're saying that that
camp really didn't work for you in the way it
was executed, which is fair. That which is fair, But
would you not say that it makes more sense in
a movie like Punish Your War Zone, in a movie
like this, even for the villains to be a little
bit more CAMPI on an hinge, because they're not the

(32:03):
we'll say, the receiver of these tragic events, whereas like
in that movie, like the Punisher is your straight man.
He's the one that's killing people. He's the one that's
no nonsense when he needs to be emotional, he's emotional
when he needs to not be emotional. He is nothing
but a revenge machine. This movie should have been that.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I don't agree. I don't agree because there are other
characters out there who are like that. I don't I
don't need the Crow, especially, I don't need every version
of the Crow. We have a lot of different, you know,
protagonists under the crow mantle. I don't need all of

(32:42):
them to be like that. And this guy, you know,
he's a he's an everyman character who was brought back,
so I don't expect him to have this kind of
soldier kind of mindset to him.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
No, not exactly the way that Punisher Warzone did it.
More so in principle, you know, like especially this movie.
And I'm with by the way, I want to say,
I'm with you. If they would have introduced the character
who's shown to be eccentric and all that before he
dies and before everything that happens, and he is just
that way but unhinged later, that's cool. I didn't see
any note of that. When he had his son, he

(33:18):
wasn't crazy. He was just a dad, you know. He
was just like, he just had a son. He wasn't
like And that might have been the fault of the
movie because we didn't see as much of it, do
you know.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, he's not a very well developed character. I'm just
I'm saying I'm enjoying it as it plays out. That's fair,
and I think it adds to the entertainment value of
the movie. And I'm I mean, some of it I
think is unintentionally entertaining. I'm not this is not a
this movie's not firing on all cylinders. I'm not saying that.

(33:47):
But the quirks of it, I mean, it's this is
not a great comparison, but I'm gonna make it anyway.
The Texas Change I'm Ascer two does not try to
go for the rety tone of the original. Far from it. It
goes for something completely different. This movie doesn't go all

(34:08):
in that direction, but there's a There is a precedent
for quirkier sequels, I guess, and this movie is a
It's not one of the best examples, but I think
it's heading in that direction more than more than trying
to totally recreate the Verse movie. I mean, the next

(34:33):
kill that happens is he kills the Punisher. He kills
a young Thomas Jane at a peep show. Thomas Jane
is really playing it up here. He's really going all
out for this, for this whack of duke character. And
it's fun to see beause Thomas Jane doesn't usually play
characters like that. Now here's the other thing. It's like

(34:56):
this crow actually creeps me out like you can call him.
But there's something a little unsettling. I don't know if
it's you know, because of the makeup, because of the
lighting and kind of the overall I think Vincent Perez
his accent kind of gives this character very Uh. This
is kind of ugly American, but an uncanny quality to me.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I don't know. I don't know about that. I know
that I know that there are things like physically that
I think he brings that that you know, do help,
you know. I mean, like I know that I said
that the look's not working for him, but like when
he does look good in this movie, it's not necessarily
working against him in every sense, you know. And more
so with the fact that, like you know, when you

(35:44):
especially if you watch these back to back or you
were super familiar with the first movie, like you could
see you could see it, you can see a universe
where he's Eric Draven again.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
And they just tried to recast Brandon Lee with this guy.
I'm sure some viewers are probably confused if they, you know,
missed his name a little bit. But yeah, I don't know,
I don't know if I if I fully agree on
that there is work for this line of defense isn't
working for you. No, and that it's not that it's
not working, it's just that it didn't. It's that didn't
resonate with me. I could definitely see how somebody would

(36:17):
have it. It's it's not out of the question. And
nothing that you said so far, by the way, is
out of a question, except for the fact that you
had the gall to bring fucking Texas chains On Massacred
Part two into this. You leave that movie far away
from this one. How dare you, sir? But uh, besides that,
like I'm with you so far, I just don't agree
with you so far. Everything that you said, nothing besides

(36:41):
the Texas chains On Massacre two mentioned it has been
egregious so far. So uh good on you.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
But we also have to keep it real plot line wise,
and this is because of our v wind Stein. But
plot line wise, this is this is sequel itis to
the I mean, it's following the first movie basically beat
for beat. You know, it has some minor differences. I mean,
we have a dead son instead of a dead fiance.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Let's cover Harvey. Let's cover Harvey and his role in
this movie.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Because hands let's do it.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
The really interesting thing about Harvey Weinstein is I have
way too many thoughts about Harvey Weinstein to put in
one podcast episode about the Crow City of Angels, But
no people act like he was this He was this
titan of industry. Everybody wanted to work with Harvey Weinstein,

(37:40):
and it really shook the film world when those allegations
came out, because, oh my god, like, look at what
he did for this industry. I can't believe it. No,
let me tell you about the Harvey Weinstein that most
people knew and most people had to work with. I
call him Harvey scissor Hands because he hacked most of
the things he touched to shit. Yeah, and this is

(38:01):
one very famous example, but far from the only one. Now,
I'm not here to say that like literally everything Harvey
Weinstein touched turned turned to shit. I'm not saying he
doesn't have his name on good movies, excellent movies. Sometimes.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yes, he has his name on one of my favorite
movies of all time. He's everywhere. He's all across Hollywood.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
He's all across Hollywood. He's a pretty inescapable figure. You know,
when you're talking about any movie produced from like nineteen
ninety four to twenty fifteen, and this is a really
minor episode in his whole career. But yeah, if you
want to lay out his contributions to this movie, what

(38:47):
he did to this movie.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
I mean he butchered it, man like, and you know,
I want to be fair, and I did. I was
doing prep for this episode like two weeks back, I think,
and I did watch the friend of the show, recent
collaborator Cody Leech's video on this and he said something
that I think I resonate with, and it was that

(39:10):
he'd be very interested to see a director's cut of
this movie in some form or fashion, I believe it
or not. Despite my animated feelings about this movie so far,
I'm in that camp, and I think anybody should be
in that camp when they're interested in film, especially when
you're talking about somebody like Harvey Weinstein, who you know

(39:30):
in some regards, I think people I've seen the excuses
made for him online before for his his contributions in
film and saying, well, if the movie was good, then
he didn't really do too much to it. It was
only when the movie was average to bad that he
meddled in it. And there are you know, not to
say that there aren't, you know, pieces of evidence for

(39:53):
that obviously. Look at what's on his name, and you
know what his name is connected to and how how
those turned out. Like said, one of my favorite movies
of all time has Harvey Weinstein's name in the credits,
and so does that of a lot of people. But
he overall, I think his contribute when you match his contributions,

(40:18):
actual real life contributions, outside of any monetary regard, I
think the guy's a fucking menace. I think he is
a he's a terrorist. And this movie we don't have
a director's cut to compare it against, but I'd be
willing to bet I'd be willing to wager that I
would enjoy director's cut of this movie far more than
I enjoyed this version. There beat the shit out of it.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
I'm sure the directors cuts more coherent. I'm not even
gonna get into the plot holes of this movie. What
plot holes? What plot? Right?

Speaker 3 (40:49):
You'd have to have a plot to have plot holes, sir.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Ah, let's say the things that don't go anywhere. Uh
Iggy pops little little chess tattoo, his little chrow merch logo,
who cares. What's that for? I don't know, but the
director's cut would have been more coherent, and it would

(41:13):
have been its own movie. The sequel itis would have
been less egregious. All of the things I've mentioned here,
at worst, they amuse me. Like nothing about this movie,
at least up until this point, has offended me. Now
that I have a proper appreciation for Iggy Pop and
the energy that he brought to this character. The first

(41:36):
time I saw this, I would have called his performance laughable,
and laughter is definitely what I associate with the performance.
But I guess I'm laughing. I guess I'm laughing with him.
I don't know how you feel about his performance.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
I mean, he's the only person I really feel like
knew what kind of movie he was in. I don't
know if he did, if he knew, Like.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I don't know if he knew what movie he was in.
I just think his performance he can't turn off.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah, his his performance felt like he knew what kind
of movie he was in, But I have no evidence
to suggest that he did know what kind of movie.
This is a turnout to me.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I don't know if he knew where he was I
don't know what we're involved on the set of this film.
Lord knows the first movie had substance of abuse problems
on set. Yeah, but okay, so he ash kills the
monkey guy, the monkey man, he kills Thomas Jane.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, and then he.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Fucks around for a little bit. There is a bit
of a pacing issue with this movie. In the second act,
I think he starts to mope and he starts to Uh.
There's a scene that comes in the middle that should
have kicked off the movie, which is him retrieving his
son's body and finally giving him a proper burial. I
thought that scene was moving, but it was in the

(42:54):
wrong place of the movie. You can't pump the brakes
to mope like you gotta have like you gotta have
the build up and then you know you're on that mission.
Like the first Chrome movie barely takes a breather, and
when it does, it's very plot motivated.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
And by the way, breathers are okay, like like, don't
be afraid to let things air out in your movie.
It's just it's just like, know where to put it,
know how to execute it, And I write what I
what I agree with that you said? There was that
it was very misplaced. I actually would have appreciated that
scene a lot. In fact, I can see an alternate

(43:36):
universe where that scene is earlier in the movie and
then we get you know, like a rector's burial, and
then it's you.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Know, in the director's cut. I'm sure there's a proper
context for that scene, hopefully and hopefully we get to
see it. And this is actually an interesting phenomenon for
a movie like this, at least for me. I don't
know if other people like this, but the pass I
give to a movie that I know was meddled with,

(44:04):
that I know has some hypothetical director's cut out there
in the wild, I give it the passes that I
wouldn't give to a movie that I know what was
the intended vision on the filmmaker's part. So like this movie,
like other things that I wouldn't let a movie get

(44:26):
away with, I'm probably soft on this movie because I
know that there is probably an answer to this in
the director's cut, but we don't get to see that cut.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, I think what you said there is important. I
think it is important to give certain allowances. There are
things that you can't do that for that are in
this movie, but especially when it comes to things like
pacing or plot coherence or things of that nature. Those
are those are you know, when that's off in a movie,
you're likely looking at studio interference or just a completely

(45:00):
just useless director. And I don't think this director is
I mean, he didn't.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
I don't believe he had any more films on his
credit uh list.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
I believe he's working on this film really turned him off.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
I can't say yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that
it wouldn't. And one thing that I keep thinking about
is this movie progresses is like, there are some shots
in this and and I haven't really talked about things
that I've enjoyed about this movie so far, besides the outlandish,
hilarious performance of our of our lead villain, but uh,
I think set design wise, like this is awesome. The

(45:35):
aesthetic of the movie, I think, and and there are
some shots and scenes that I'm like, man, this would
be a great set of footage for a music video.
If this was a music video inspired by the Crow,
it would be amazing. But but then there's a movie
to get through, and and and uh it kind of

(45:57):
makes me upset and you you you know me. We've
had this on the show before, where a movie does
something so well that I get more mad at the
movie for being bad. It sort of outdes some of
the allowances that I would make to a movie that
gets butchered by its studio because there there was so
much going for this. Luckily, I don't get as angry
as I do with other movies, because there's still line delivery,

(46:20):
there's still dialogue, There's still things I can't overlook. But
like I want to say that I don't blame the
director for a lot of the things in this that
are are you know, plot related and continuity related and
things like that. You know, allowances in that case you
really have to make them, especially when you're talking about

(46:41):
a tyrant such as Harvey Weinstein. Harvey Harvey Weinstein strikes
again with the Crow City of Angels. There's no difference
in this to his other butchering jobs over the years.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Another reason I give this movie a pass just the
soundtrack White Zombie. Yeah, White Zombie. Rarely do we get
to talk about Rob Zombie's music.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
I'm here, they hear his name enough, but yeah, we don't.
We don't get the chance a lot punish your war zone.
We got the chance to bring it up, which is
it's funny that we talked about that, but I can't
think of another instance where we've gotten to Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
It's not just White Zombie. I mean you got PJ. Harvey. Yeah,
Iggy Pop himself, I want to be her Dog probably
the probably his biggest song depends on I guess what
era of Iggy pop you subscribe to. But yeah, this

(47:43):
is an element that I feel is on part with
the original. The original fantausly has one of the great
movie soundtracks. I'm I'm gonna say I would, I would
want to listen to this soundtrack just as much.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Uh, I can't go that far. I do like the
Rob Zombie song a lot. I like the White Zombie song,
but that's that's the only one that's like I would
listen to on I would, I would add to a
playlist I like. I would say if if we're comparing
the two, it's inferior, but it's not as big of

(48:21):
a gap as the movie quality is. It's just it's
it's you know, it's a little small. Here's god, you
can't even see it on camera. Let's just say that
the movies are like a mile apart, and you know,
maybe like a quarter of a mile apart for the
for the soundtracks.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
We'll go with that.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Is that the most charitable Yeah, I'd say so. I'd
say so, boy. Any anything else I can use to
defend this movie, I don't have a lot. I think
I've been I've been making the case for this as
much as I can. No doubt the meddling by Harvey Weinstein,

(49:05):
and just the the really awkward position of being a
sequel to the movie, to a movie like The Crow.
I mean, if you ask me if there should have
been sequels to The Crow, I would have said no,
that is a movie that can standalone. And if there
are to be successors to The Crow, I think you

(49:27):
need some kind of clean break or clean slate. This
came out too soon after The Crow. It's trying to
evoke the Crow a little too much. There are some differences,
not enough. I know a lot of people think Vincent
Perez looks a lot like Brandon Lee. He doesn't to me,
but you know, at the same time, when you have

(49:49):
somebody with that build, with that color hair, put him
in leather and give him a little Harlequin touch up.
It's be kind of hard to like escape that comparison.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
He doesn't, He's he doesn't look as different to Brandon
Lee as like Edward Furlong does, but he looks similar
enough that you could reasonably think the studio is replacing him,
which I think worked against the movie as far as like,
I've read reviews that say, like he looked too similar,
I was confused. So I don't go that route. I

(50:26):
don't think they look I can. I can very easily
tell the difference between the two of them looking at
photographs and such.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
I mean, they don't want to create like some kind
of a jolting contrast, like they went in what direction.
It's hard to think of a comparable situation to this.
There aren't a lot of anthology movies that follow these
different protagonists. Yeah, you could have created a whole new
look for the Crow, But at the same time, the

(50:55):
Crow it is not just a movie, it's a comic book,
and at this point it's its own lord, it's its
own myth, and I think, yeah, they should have stayed
true to that.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
But I want to ask you something before we get
to the very end of this. So Mia Kershner's character
of Sarah in this There's there's information out there that
the idea was tossed around that by the end of
this movie, she would be the next Crow.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I've heard different stories. I've heard she was supposed to
be the Crow. I've heard that Ash was supposed to
walk the earth after yeah, killing Judah and be something
of you know, stuck stuck in purgatory. You know, I've

(51:46):
heard different I've heard different things.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Do you think do you think it maybe would have
helped the movie and the connection to between the two
characters for something like that to have happened, or do
you think it was the right move to not give
us a female Crow in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I mean, we can't even handle a female president, at
least not yet. I don't know if people in the
nineties would have been ready for for for this to
be the whole to the Crows Nirvana.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
You know, I'll say this and this might be controversial,
and no, it's going to be controversial for anybody. Look,
I'm one of those people who thinks no movie is untouchable.
I think any movie can be remade. I think any
movie should have if somebody wants to take a stab
at updating a movie for a modern audience, or for
doing something and making a name for themselves, or whatever

(52:44):
they want to do. I think that should be I
think they should be able to do it, whether they
have respect for the source material or material or not.
Make a good movie, and I'll be on your side.
We're going to remake it The Crow soon starring Bill
skarsk are penny Wise for those who may not be
aware of the new Pennywise Newer. I want to see it.

(53:10):
I want to see a female Crow, I do. I
want to see it, actually pretty badly. I think it's
one of those characters that you know, if you build
enough lore around the movie and give it enough of
a reason. I don't want to see it just to
do it, like a lot of movies will do. I
want to see somebody give it a good reason, give
it a good actress, and I want to see him
go for it. I mean, at this point, what you

(53:32):
got to lose?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I hear what you're saying about a female Crow, but
my concern is what about her emails?

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Oh boy?

Speaker 2 (53:47):
No, I mean, of course, I mean there have been
female Crows in the comics. There's no reason we can't
have a female Crow. I mean what, like, like the
the female revenge movie hasn't been a tried and true success.
I'm almost scared that, you know, if because The Crow

(54:07):
usually relies on some pretty sordid subject matters, right, I'm
a little concerned that some filmmakers, the wrong filmmaker, would
be tempted to exploit some themes if they were to
have a Crow sequel. I think it would probably, But
I say that a lot of people don't like the
original Crow, or at least have this criticism that it

(54:32):
is a male fantasy, you know, a man's wife gets
violated and murdered and he gets revenge, you know, very
male power fantasy. I think there's a lot more going
on thematically and emotionally with The Crow, But on paper, yeah,
I see that critique. So look, it's a set. We're

(54:55):
at the point where we have to just start treating
things like this more sensitively general. You know, rape and
revenge aren't, you know, aren't the stuff of escapism anymore.
And I'm not interested in going back to litigate a
movie like The Crow, like you know, decide whether or

(55:17):
not it should be condemned for that. But just moving forward,
I just think that's that's the approach you would have
to take, no matter, no matter.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
What, I'll say this, if any studios are listening, I'll
write it. I don't care. I'll put my name online.
I got I got nothing to lose here. I would
love to I love the opportunity to do something like that.
I think they should have gone that route for this movie,
if I'm being honest. You know, I don't know if
they would have been able to handle it. But then again,
look what we got after it. You know, the idea

(55:48):
that this connection between these characters is because you know
the I like the idea that that maybe in the
future and in future installments, the crow. You know that
that's you know, the there's almost like this connection between
the crow that the Crow of now and the Crow
of the future. You know that there there're some it's

(56:08):
somehow connected to each other in some way, will meet
or are aware or nightmare dreams, whatever you want to do.
I think that would have been a cool angle to go,
Cooler than the route we would eventually go, I think,
And uh, yeah, I don't know. When I heard that,
I was a little disappointed that they didn't decide to

(56:29):
go that route. I understand, So I'm not gonna hold
it against them, but maybe the actress wasn't the right choice.
You know. I think she's a good actress and everything,
but I don't know. You know, I'd like to see
somebody who would like to get into the physicality of
the role. But yeah, you know, I don't know. It
doesn't work against the movie. I just thought it might
be an interesting point to bring up, considering it it did,

(56:51):
there was a possive there's an alternate universe where that happened.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I think you're trying to buy time. I think you're
trying to buy time. No, no, no, no, don't talk about
the ending.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
I know why I am here. I know why i'm here.
Go ahead, sir, lead us in to the ending of
this film.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
God damn it. This the way this movie ends. It
fucking sucks. It is the most indefensible part of the movie.
And you're hearing that from somebody who has squirmed trying
to defend this movie for most of this podcast. Now,

(57:32):
I'll be real with you. So, I mean, there is
ship there's a way this movie's ending could have gone,
and then there's the way it did go. Let's talk
about about the way it did. Go Ash is scaling
this building trying to rescue Sarah. She's been captured again, which,
you know, I get not very feminist. You know, Mary

(57:53):
Jane got captured again. Go savors Spider Man, and like
Spider Man, he's he's scaling this building. Which that was
a cool stunt.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't mad.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
It was cool. It was not bad.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
It was bad. It was cool cool enough.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Well then, and and the thing is, you think it's
just gonna be a something of a of a repeat
of the original movies climax. Right, So the big bad guy,
he's killed all of the hench people, but now it's
gonna be faced up between him the main villain and

(58:37):
oh no, the villain has killed the crow and now
our hero is vulnerable again. He's just a human, right,
not exactly how this goes? So drink Judah drinks from
the blood of the crow, and now he has crow powers?
How does that work? Why are you asking? This is

(58:59):
not the kind of movie you should be trying to
cross examine. Okay, the movie's begging you to just go
with it. Now, Okay, now here's the thing, right, So,
Connor can a human being a regular person survive a
fifteen story drop. No, I'm asking you a question. Can

(59:21):
a human being without any kind of mystical power survive
of fifteen story drop to the ground? No, but he
lands on like a bed of flowers, so it's okay.
He doesn't even have a scratch on him. He's such
a trooper. And then he just gets fucking bullied by Judah.

(59:44):
This part of the movie is really sad. It's really
pathetic because even in the first movie, when Eric Draven
is stripped of his powers, I never felt like he
was stripped of his dignity. That's really not true with that.
He's really he's whipped. He's literally whipped. And have you

(01:00:08):
ever seen a film ending so dumb that you don't
even know how to explain what happened?

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Yeah, explain to me the ending of this movie. How
do they defeat Judah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
I refuse. There are two movies that there. Now, there
was always one movie that I will never fucking talk
about the ending unless somebody asked me my opinion on it,
and I will tell him it sucks. And now it
is two movies because I rewatched this one. It's this
and fucking mama, and you know how I feel about Mama.
I will never fucking talk about that ending or explain
it to anybody. I will refuse to do it for

(01:00:48):
this show. Uh, you want to tell the people what happened,
you go for it. I will tell you how I
feel about it. I am no one to indulge this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Let's look to Wikipedia. Let's see if Weedia can bail
us out. I love going on the Wikipedia's anapsis of
movies with a shit script, trying to see how Wikipedia
scrambles to explain this movie. Okay, Sarah rushes up and
stabs Judah in the forehead. Spoiler alert by the way,

(01:01:19):
Sarah rushes up and stabs Judah in the forehead, causing
Judah to drop Ash. Judah pulls out the knife and
starts moving toward Ash. When Sarah intervenes, Judah stabs her
in the stomach. Ash gets up and impales Judah on
a metal pipe, which falls, which fails to kill him.
So this is really a This is not just a

(01:01:40):
mono we mono. It's a battle of wits too. It's
just like a push shove fall. Okay, here's the best part.
Ash calls upon a murder of CROs that devoured Judah. Okay,
that almost sounds cool. I'm sorry, Wikipedia, I don't think
you watch a movie closely. Yeah, he fucking shoots like

(01:02:02):
he purdemics Judah to death. He like gets these cg
crows and just like does a little like yu gi
oh kind of like spellcasts and makes Judah just dissipate.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
So I've heard in the script that the original idea
here was that he would be picked apart piece by
piece by these crows.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Again, sounds cool, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
It sounds awesome. Would have helped my overall rating for
this movie, I'll tell you that much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
This movie does leave you on a very sour note.
I think even if you've enjoyed even if actually more
so if you've enjoyed the film, because I'm ready by
the ninety minute mark to say, hey man, this really
isn't that bad. Y'all are being too hard on this movie.
And that's not really the vibe that I walk away with.

(01:03:09):
I feel like a chump.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
I felt so it had been a while since I
saw this, I knew I didn't like it, and you know,
going back to watch it this time, you know I'm
getting to the final climax of the movie, and I'm like, man, like,
something's gotta happen, you know, something's gotta happen to save
some of this movie for me, to redeem some of

(01:03:32):
this movie for me. And then and then that ending happened,
and I swear to you, I was silent, completely silent,
just staring this movie broke me, Like I at every
turn it was either something that was unintentionally hilarious or

(01:03:52):
you know, it wasn't like the worst time I've had
watching a movie. And I don't want to I don't
want to say that at all, but I wasn't having
that much fun I was. I was the parts that
I was having fun at I felt bad for having
fun with. And then we get to the end and
the and the Truthfully, a good ending can save a movie,
sometimes even completely bail it out. Like oh yeah, some

(01:04:15):
of the movies dragged to get through, but the ending,
you will love the ending of this that's hollowing four.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
For me, by the way.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
That hurts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
But but I'm saying it's a really good ending.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
It's a really great, great ending, and some people, for
for a lot of people, actually it's it's funny that
you say Halloween, because the example I would use is
Halloween five. Some people's entire opinion on that movie is
the third act of the film. Uh, most of it
until we get to the very Halloween five. Yeah, I still.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I like that movie. We watched it not too long ago,
and you know what, I liked it even more.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Oh maybe we can revisit it once we get down
to that season. That was the first episode.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
The first at the pisode that we have ever recorded.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Yeah, that might be. That might be fun. But glad
we brought it up in this. In this something good
came out of us. But uh no, that that ending,
Uh you know it. You said that, you know, nothing
in the film had offended you. I had been I
don't want to say offended is the right word. But
I had not been having the greatest time, and then
this ending comes along, and uh it it it certainly.

(01:05:25):
Let me tell you what this ending did. It solidified
me never watching this movie again unless I absolutely have to.
That's what this is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Drama, queen, what never again? I mean, it's not unwatchable,
it's I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Do not want to see this ever again. You call
me a John McQueen if you want I don't want
to watch this movie again. If I if I have
to watch this movie again, I won't complain, like you know,
we come back to it and revisit it or something
like that in the future, you know what, I'll accept
it as a part of my duties. But I no
desire to watch this again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
I did watch it growing up. It's the only other sequel.
It's the only other film in this frame that I
had in my rotation. It's the only one I really acknowledge. Again,
I guess the Cross Elevation is fine. I haven't seen
that one in a minute. For some reason, that movie,

(01:06:15):
even though it's far more coherent and has a lot
more original ideas to it, still doesn't strike me as
the most fun movie to rewatch. I think I think
there's a camp value to this movie that that elevates.
Elevator is a strong word that enhances the viewing experience. Right,

(01:06:40):
It's a movie that serves both as you know, a
decent follow up and they can also kick ass on
bad movie night.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Okay, I'll i'll you know what. I you know, I
and you have every right to to enjoy this film.
I'm glad you do, truthfully, and I think that leads
perfectly to final verdicts, right, I think I think we're ready.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Yeah, all right, mister home drum, let's let's get my
verdict out of the way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
I've been wrestling with this question of where I would
exactly land. Obviously I've I don't think I managed to
make a strong case for this movie. The final cut
that we have, the one that is available to watch.
It's not a worthy follow up to the to the original.

(01:07:34):
It is a it's a it's a hatch job by
one of the most nefarious figures in Hollywood history. So
I give it grace, but you don't have to give
it grace. You know, you can watch it the way
Connor watched it, or you can see all of this
movie's failures as opportunity for ironic enjoyment. You know, there's

(01:07:56):
there's a clash of of supreme style, you know, you know,
moving pathos, real emotion, and some of the goofiest ship
you'll see just in a comic book movie period. It's
not obnoxious. We're not in Punisher warzone territory. Thank God.

(01:08:17):
If God, if Dominic West had showed up in this movie,
I would have had to abandon the Ship. Yeah, but
this movie doesn't rise to the occasion of being a
worthy follow up to The Crow. I embrace it, but
I totally see why other fans will will say that

(01:08:41):
all of the Crow sequels suck. This included to them,
I'll say, this movie is not that bad. It doesn't suck.
I mean there's a there's a range of quality in
the sequels. I think this is the farthest end of tolerable.
And on the other side you have of Crow Wicked Prayer.
It'll be interesting to see how the Crow remake stacks

(01:09:05):
up where that falls. Yeah. So that's that's me. That's
where I stand with the Crow City of Angels.

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Happy to see you land on a positive side. Somebody
had to bite the bullet there, and I'm glad it
was you, because it's not gonna be me. I. Oh boy,
what do I have to say about the Crow City
of Angels? All right, we'll go with this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
We'll go with ashes ashes, they all fall down.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Yeah, this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
See, even when you're making fun of that line, it
still sounds cool.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
It doesn't. Oh no, it does not to me. No,
like this movie. Look over over the course of my
viewing experiences in film. Everything that I've logged on letterbox,
I've only given a start of twenty eight films. All
things considered, when you have over a thousand films in
your letter box, that's not a whole lot of movies.

(01:10:06):
That's a very small percentage. And those movies that that
half a star rating is reserved for films which have
no redeeming value to me, which I never care to
watch again. And while this movie checks one of those boxes,
it is not completely irredeemable, and fortunately will not be
joining that list. Unfortunately, the box that it does check

(01:10:27):
is that I never care to see this again. I
didn't enjoy my viewing experience overall. Overall, I felt not
that this was a waste of time because we got
this conversation out of it, but if this podcast didn't
exist and I were to be watching this in a
different universe, absolutely would have been seen as a waste
of my time. I already knew I didn't like it.

(01:10:50):
I watched it again, and I didn't like it again.
It's not irredeemable, though, and I want to say that
I do still echo what I said earlier in the
episode about feeling empathy and sympathy towards the filmmakers that
had a tall task and towards people who were in
different ways than others taken advantage of by Harvey Weinstein.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
So that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:16):
This movie has a two point four out of five
on letterboxed, I think that's generous. I think this movie
is absolutely that bad. I would I'm not gonna say
what I would give this because I care about my
co host's health. But I'm not a fan, not not
a half a star, not completely irredeemable. If you if

(01:11:37):
you want to see an example of some fantastic set
design and you don't mind the run time of this movie,
I recommend giving it a watch, because that really is
something that I think of filmmakers or people who enjoy
film can enjoy regardless of the quality of the rest
of the movie and by the soundtrack. And that's that's

(01:11:58):
all I gotta say.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Speaking of buying, if you're looking for yeah, right, if
you're looking for other ways to waste your money, we
of course have a Patreon. I mean, what would two
white guys do with their podcast without a Patreon. So

(01:12:21):
if you want to if you want to keep the
Shenanigans going, if you want to support us, to that level.
You can head over to our Patreon and pledge at
any tier, or you can like this video, you can subscribe,
and you can share it with your friends. If you
were outraged in my opinion Connor's opinion, just the whole

(01:12:43):
enterprise of this of this episode, if you want to
share that outrage. We do take hate watching as well
as just actual fandom. We'll take either.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Yeah, yeah, that should be our new motto. We welcome
hate watchers. There are a lot of new faces around
here at the time that we're releasing this episode, so
we thank you all for coming along. Hope you're enjoying
the content so far. If you want to support us
other than monetary ways, and other than sharing our videos
with your friends, but you should really do, You should
really share our videos around It would be really helpful.

(01:13:16):
You can dive deep into that bad media bag by
heading to our website that badmedia dot com. We have
a whole backlog of our not that Bad episodes, links
to our channel to watch our other series that we
have on this channel. Background on your two favorite bad
take artists and all their unsanctioned effoonery. How the show happened. Hey,

(01:13:37):
We're vain enough to tell you our background. So check
that out if you want to know a little bit
more about that bad media and it's hosts and owners
or whatever you want to call us in this situation,
I don't even know what we are. I don't know
what I am or who I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Am sometimes getting out of hand.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Yeah, this movie has broken me even more now, But
we thank you for today. We thank you for watching
and subscribing and liking and sharing all of the amazing
things that you guys all do. And I think there's
nothing else left except for my co host to take
us out. Gabe, will you take us home?

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
I'm Gabe.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
I don't know who I am right now, so I'm
the other one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
And this is that bad media. This is that bad
media saying we've did we've been dead before and we
liked what we saw or I did. I guess Connor
wasn't so hot on.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
Everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
This is that bad media signing out