That Saints Pod 2025 Episode 6

Listen as the lads discuss the Good Friday derby and the ongoing issues with the Saints"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to that Saints podcast recording on Easter Monday,
just after Saints have lost against Wigan on Good Friday.
We'll try and not be too depressed this this week
or sound we'll sound try and sound upbeat, Oh dear
anyway a bit. Then on the ground tonight Stee's Stee's
on the injury lists and ad are off drowning the

(00:28):
sorrows and we've got Darren Rugby and Paul Withers to
discuss or chew the cord over what's what's happening more
recently in the in the Good Friday game. Just to
give you the facts, Wigan Warriors twenty four Saints fourteen.
But that's not that's not the whole story. We'll go
through it bit by bit. But thoughts on the game, thoughts,

(00:49):
what your thoughts you two guys were there, Let's start
with you poor what are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
As we've just said in the build up to the show,
then we're playing for twenty minutes at a time and
I feel like we've done that against tokay A at
home Warrington twice now in the Cup and in the league,
and we've done that against Wigan on Good Friday, and
you're playing against these teams, these top four teams. You

(01:14):
can't just turn up for twenty minutes. You've got to
put in at least a forty six to sixty minute
performance and still out for the best. But we're playing
for twenty minutes and expecting to beat these teams, and
then we're listening to the same garbage from Wellens in
the interview at the end of the game saying, now
the efforts there, but we're just not getting over the line.
You're not going to get over the line playing for

(01:35):
twenty minutes against these teams, Darren.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
The fans turned up in the droves. Yeah, yeah, five thousand,
six hundred. I think there was something like that I
think Saints published. So you know, we're looking forward to
a good day out, good Friday. It's always a you know,
cracking day no matter what the result, but obviously you
want to be on the on the winning side. I
thought the the team came out, we looked pumped up,

(02:02):
we looked up for it, and then first ten minutes,
fifteen minutes even I thought we were going well. I thought,
you know, we're still in this and then as soon
as French I think scored the first try off of
Bevan French kick and you know then you could see
that the fact the heads, the heads on the players

(02:24):
went down. I think the fans probably sombered a bit
and then it took a while then to get us back.
But by which point I think we're eighteen to two down.
You know, we said it for a while, an't we,
that you need these superstars in your team and we
can certainly have them in French and fields. You know
they run the show for Wigan. But you know, we

(02:47):
just we just lacked that cutting edge again and we
said it haven't seen times, haven't we We're just lacking
that cutting edge and the clinical finish that we need
to get over the line. Again, I thought o were
senior players. Alex Warmsley twice. I think he knocked on

(03:08):
it three times possibly but one he was trying to
play the ball and we're right on the line and
he knocks on and again. Joe Batchelor, I think we've
mentioned him in previous shows for me, is not the
same player anymore. He made two vital hours again I
think they were knock ons and one which led to

(03:29):
Wiggans first try, and we just can't. We can't keep
on doing that. As as as a team. You know,
we're having these honest conversations apparently in training all the time,
you know, but it seems to be our senior lads
that are letting us down at times when it matters.
And for me, that was the difference on the day
because like Paul, like you said there, Paul, if we

(03:51):
were playing for another ten minutes, I thought we probably
would have beat Wigan.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
It was it was just it was a trained game.
I watched it. I didn't go. I watched it on TV,
and for me, it's a game we could and should
have won. I'm just wondering whether there's a real crisis
of confidence in the players and certainly in the in
the leadership of the team, because once again we made
some we didn't make changes, but we kept the same

(04:16):
team that had beaten the Wake for a week before,
with no Johnny Lomax, Whitby, Wellsby and Sailor swapping places
and in period Shouly. That looks okay. In fact, it
looks it looks more than okay, but gain mistakes. We
made twelve unforced errors in that game, and that's a

(04:37):
big game when You can't make that level of errors,
especially when you're just throwing the momentum away that you'd
be a building up. You've worked hard to build the
momentum and you just throw it away.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Right then a lot of our senior players making the errors.
Right at the end we're getting back into the game. Yeah,
there's not a great deal left on the clock, but
what sailor doing. Sailors run across the line with the
ball into the gates, knocked out and Miski finishes off
of the try to sail a game. It's just stupid
errors that we're not getting over the line. But why

(05:06):
can't we start? We did start half decently, come out,
which you do good Friday or firing, But then it's
that next twenty minutes that we just didn't seem to
do anything. It was like Wigging just got the roll
on and you're waiting them for something, like one of
the X factor of players from Wigging to come up
with something. But because they've got so much speed out
widening Field and French, like Smith when he took his try,
it was only all our outer players. They are expecting

(05:30):
Field and French come out of the back and it
wasn't just literally straight down the middle. But because they've
got these x fator players, you're looking the players are
defending and looking out outfield, aren't out the back to
expect one of these players to get on the end
of one of them passes or on the end of
a kick. So it's not just where you're playing normal
for example Whitefield or Okay Castle for Okay to obviously

(05:53):
play expansive rugby, But what I'm saying is it's easy
to pick up these one one on one defenders. But
when you've got two or three out of the back
and you've got the option of a kick to one
of the speeders, outside your minds everywhere events.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
I think I think that we've we've come to a
position where we are more worried about the other team
than they are worried about us. Yeah, and I think
that's happened over the last two seasons because we had
that aura from the four in a row and the
Wolf team, and to a certain extent, it was still
Wolf team in that first season where well I was
there was the coach. But teams are not worried now

(06:28):
they've found out how to play against it. They're they're
not worried about us. We're weird feared of other feared
of players and other teams. There's nobody, with exception perhaps
of Jack Wellsby that teams are worried about.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Now, yeah, I think you know, if you're on to
like go back to the wigging tries there, like the
first one from from Field, Sailor was so out of
position and French saw that he was he was he
was in the line that we didn't have a fallback.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
I've got a different view on that because I reckon
Sailors so that they outnumbered us on that side. So
we filled it. We filled in and then French was
smart enough to kick back.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, you know, So whether we could have done something
about that, possibly, possibly not, I don't know. But certainly
the second try when Miski went in, that was just
a that was a look you know what I mean,
the ball bounced, we.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Went there's no way you should have given that a
to try.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
No, we went for it. For me, when I've watched
it back, I think French probably knocked on but it
bounced backwards, so it was given. So, you know. But
again the second half then Field went in again and
that was again just poor defense, read reading the defense.
He just shot through the line there. But you know

(07:43):
eighteen too, you think, right, that's that's the game gone.
And you know, I think Saints fans just started singing
because we were wanted a day out, you know, But
through that the atmosphere built up.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Obviously then cracking ball out to Murphy, who you know,
try really would go to try in the corner, and
then Parsey I think it.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Was after that it was on.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Then it was definitely.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Fund the half. You know, we he straight over and
bars his way through, but you know, were certainly then
we're on for taking Wigan and we just didn't then
on it.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Then there was a catastrophic area from sailor at the back.
I think he got it caught in two minds there.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
And we need that X factor, don't we And we
just didn't have it on Friday.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
But we're trying to do that in fifteen minutes. I
think Murphy went in on sixty five. He did, so
you know, if Murphy goes in on sixty five, were
then trying to score three trials against Wigan in the
last fifteen minutes was not going to happen.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Has it? Happened if we played for that period of
time in the first half and you've got forty minutes
to get back into the game. The differences were doing
it in the last fifteen and twenty and we've we've
played against the big teams. Like I said whole Carrodon
we turned up for fifteen twenty minutes and well and
just got this attitude of twelve fourteen points to win
a game. It's not no.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I'll tell you when it changed. The game change was
when Darrell Clark came on.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Daryl Clark that I'm still not a Moses and by fan,
I just think he's so slow out on nine. And
there's no coincidence that Clark comes on and he speeds
us complete speeds.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Are different away, it's a different game.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Came If he's fits, then start him. I don't say yeah.
And also, why you're leaving one of our better players
on the bench to the last twenty when realistic we
should we should have it. If we're in we're eighteen
to two down at half time, bring him at halftime.
He can he can change the game.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I agreed. There's a so there's so many things that
are questionable when you're not winning that to actually leave
yourself home to criticism on players who should be playing
and not playing. Yeah, your your actual game tactics. You're
leaving yourself. Why open't it to be to be ridiculed

(09:56):
in a way.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, I mean with the hooker situation, you know, you've
we always have Cunningham for the first sort of twenty yeah,
thirty minutes, and then you'd see Roby certainly in the
first half. But we don't, like you said, well, it's
like he's leaving him on, like you know, Dale Carts
should be our starting hooker and by you know.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
He's fit to be playing. He's fit to start. There's
no point and he certainly speeds us up. So you know,
I don't mind him starting Moses, but you've got to
bring Clark on in that first half, even if you
give him twenty five minutes, you know, and then bring
Clark on speed us up, because that certainly did speed us.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Up as it happened when Clark came on and started
moving us around quicker, and that the service was quicker
from the player the ball. It builds confidence and then
you've got Whitby going through and yeah, we made that
half breakdown breaking would it was no more forward than
the Misky try, which is a shame really, it's just frustrating.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
But for me, if you make it changes, Clark's on
your bench when Parsy comes on, Clark comes on with him. Yes,
because them two together, pars is punching holes and Clark
jumps on the back of that. I think you're a
completely different team. Where the massive Moses starts a game
or comes off the bench, he's still the same pace.
He doesn't bring any more speed off the bench. He

(11:18):
just gets that ball and by the time he's picked
it up, you're looking around thinking, all right, well he's
going to pass here. You know exactly what's happening. But
at least Clark gives you a bit more of a
different dimension.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well, he's an experienced pro, he's a top nationally, knows
what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
And Dale don't get the last the substitution. Some are left,
some don't even get on, like we've seen No Stevens.
How No Stephens isn't getting a game this season is
beyond me because I thought last year was one of
our better, if not best forwards out there, and I
like Delaney. Delane is a very good player. But for me,
I put Stephens in front Delaney just because Steven No

(11:56):
Stevens is a complete, He's a different size and he's
more for me.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
He's he completed, he's all on a ball, balling and
he's got pass him.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Hasn't he Delayey's possibly you can't knock his effort in
his determination, but he's not for me. He's not quite
big enough as a prop. But also I don't think
he's clever enough to play a second row. But against
the lesser teams, Delaney is absolutely fine. But then when
you're playing it'st the big top four, top five teams,
I just think he gets bullied. And then I think
No Stevens would make a difference because he's a bit

(12:27):
more bigger, a bit more up top, and he has
got a passing game, so he brings also a different
dimension to us. But I'm very shock that he's not.
We give him a five year deal, four year deal,
sorry with along with Robinson and Whitby, but yet we've
not seen him sen him play since.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Talking to Whitby A great great game before we'll come
back a couple look back on that game in a bit.
But I thought he didn't look out of place in
that game.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
No, I mean Dwellans made that called don't because everyone,
I think everyone pre game was expected low Max coming
back into that team just because of the way you know,
the selection has been in previous rounds and you're you're thinking, well,
and even Wellens's comment about you know we are mart
Waitfield is one of the games that Whitby would be
playing in, so straight away you're thinking, well, he's not

(13:16):
going to be playing next week then, is it? Do
you know what I mean? You started, but we were
all when the team she came out, and you know,
we're all having a paint in the in the bar
before and you know we're all pleased and shot well,
we're we're excited to see Whitby. There was shocked that
low Mass has been dropped and for you know a
lot of people are saying, no, well he's injured. Well

(13:38):
I hope, I hope he has been dropped because that's
what we've been crying for, isn't it. And why drop
Why would you drop Whitby from the week previous hues
because for me, he had a cracking game and Whitby
gives us that goal kicking.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Well, he's got goal kicking, and he's got a kicking game.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Well Field knocked on one of his, didn't he an
absolute spiral you know, went up, so you know, brit
really really impressed with it. He certainly held his own
in that game on the biggest stage you know, so.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Well he wasn't. He wasn't. Didn't look kind of place
and defense either.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
No, he didn't. They tagged him a few times and
I think the rain was taking a sember to him
a few times. But he held his own and at the
end of the day, if he's gonna get a lot
of traffic, but no, he didn't look out of place,
like he said. For a few years now, and we've
said it on the podcast many times, we've been crying
out for a kick a game, not just for goal,
but out of hands. And I think the last couple

(14:31):
of weeks had he's played, especially its wakefield and even
its wigging, there was kicks going in there that nobody
was expecting. And it's completely different. And again it doesn't
just it shocks the opposite, opposite opposition as well because
they don't know what's coming. Normally, up until he played,
you could guarantee that we're going to do four drives

(14:51):
or three drives, a drop off and then the kick
goes to the corner and that kick's gonna be exactly
the same, same height and everything. You know where it's going.
But at least one would be comeing. There was a
few different options kicking, and I just think the more
game time he gets, the more confidences you're going to get.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Do you think that the selection of Whidby has more
to do with Liebreers than Paul as.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
I don't know. I'd like to think so, because you know, Brears,
at the end of the day is running our attack.
So you know, if he's got ideas that he wants to,
you know, put on the fields, then you know he
needs to play the players that he wants to be there.
So I don't know. It's hard, isn't it, Because even
on the drive air, you know you sort of obviously

(15:34):
come onto this in a bit. But you know, Wellens
as a coach, you know, we've got Bres doing the attacking.
We've mentioned it before, We've got Carol doing the defense. Well,
you know, Paul Lellens is in the middle, and you
don't know what impact is having on either them. Two
coaches and you know, is he input in there? You

(15:54):
know you I still.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Don't hope so, but you don't be given the all
clear to go to do what he wants in attack
yet because I've not seen anything massively different than what
we've seen the last couple of seasons' I.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Think you're right, Paul in the fact that when when
we have played against certainly you know, whole k Are
and picking out Warrington and Wigan, we have these spells
in the games, and we've alluded to it on the
podcast before. We have these ten twenty minute you know,
twenty five minute spells. We're absolutely throwing the ball round

(16:29):
and you know everyone's going, wow, exactly, that's what this
is good, this is what we want to see. But
then it comes back to does he then go right
put the reins back on and like we've said before,
you know, we're fourteen points ahead, with sixteen points head,
that's it. We'll just go defensive. You know, we're Saints
as old. They just keep on going, keep on going.

(16:49):
But you don't know who's making that call.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
There's something, there's something there that doesn't do up. Okay,
are absolutely destroyed as that first twenty minutes when he
plays it going back weeks. But then we had a
fifteen ten to fifty minute spell. But we we turned
them over, we got we got on the front foot,
we turned them around, we got back into the game
and the like. It was like, right, bang, that's enough.

(17:12):
But it's happening, not just taking talk like both Warrington
games and then back to good Friday, it's it's not
good enoughing. Plus we were realistically eighteen two down. We
shouldn't be eighteen two down before we start playing. We
started playing when it's nil nil.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
But like we said before, it took Darwel Clark to
come on to change that momentum, you know, and obviously
Darrell Clark came on the momentum change. The crowd got
up for it because you know that was noticeable, that
was on the TV TV.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, well you just you know it's good, it's going
to happen. And again I'm not I do wish and
By would turn on and bring me wrong. But at
the minute, every time we get to that field again,
he's a bit different than his kicking game, isn't. He
doesn't do anything for me. He's just like he stows
us down and you can read it's like under Twelves,
you can read what's coming. But then is that like

(18:02):
the argument when Dodd was here, is he being told
what to do because Dog got a lot of flak?
But to be fair, if you put Dodd in the
team now, I think he'd Undergreen here was too much different?
Would there be any differently? You don't know, dear, but
I just think give why a free rate. Now let
him do what you wants to do. If they're going

(18:22):
to bring a low Max in, then let Lowmac play
alongside him, put well back at full back and then
it's what you do with Sailors. At the minute, Sailor
is not the X factor player that we thought he
would be, and now he's got to prove himself to
get into the team.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
To be fair to say, there's there's very few players
that come from Australia that are hit the ground running
and after six months or superstars we think they are.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I was going to say, you know that you've got
six months, you know, go back, go back to Ben
Barber when he first came. I mean you could see
that there was something, but we only really saw his
absolute best the year after Bevan French when he was
at Wigan. He got shown up all over the field,
so he didn't have a great first He didn't have
a great first year. I remember Jack Wellsby showing him
up a few times, you know, and he was only

(19:05):
a young kid at the time. Again, it was the
second year, third year that he really came into his own.
So I'm willing to give Sailor a chance, but I
don't know if we're if we're trying to, if we're
moving Sailor to try and accommodate Johnny Lomax, I think
we might as well give up.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I think I think they just stick with what we've got,
but slay for longer play for longer periods. And if
Johnny comes in for an injury, fine.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, fair enough, ye enough.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
What should happen now is if there's an injury or
something happens and low Max gets a chance, and it's
Lo Max's place to keep them, and that that's where
you're creating competition for place. That's what you want in
the past, not somebody taking the shirt for granted, which
to be for low Marx's being unbelievable player over his years,
but now the last especially this season and the back
end of last season, his shirt was took for granted.

(19:53):
He who was playing week in week out, and now
he's not, so he's got a fight for his position
and given whitby a few more weeks and I think
he'll get more and more confident, which against Wakefield was
unbelievable Wigan solid performance and then hopefully now the next
few games you get more confidence, start kicking more and

(20:14):
he's a very very much he's got that kicking for
himself kind of thing, chip and go and he can
make things happen out and nothing. So hopefully you can't
expect that straight away because he's on a young lad.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
But he's constantly yapping at the team and that's that's
what you want. And even now he's only been in
the team, you know it's his third game Super League,
but properly now you know he's had a run of
two games and you can see him both games and
everyone's watching him. He's proper yapping at the team and
that's what I want. You want from now you know
he's shoving people out the way. He's so much older

(20:47):
than he is, which is great to see. It's it's
absolutely great to same with his confidence. The more games
he gets.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
The more confidence he gets, we'll see them little chips over,
We'll see them kicks at the corner. We'll see maybe
a bit more of a Murphy when Felt is back
Felt being brought into play instead of just stood in
the wing. Especially when you've got Murphy, you can finish
a try like he can do. And the speed. Let's
use his pace because for years gone by we've never

(21:13):
utilized just see like chips to the corner. We're gonna
put it in for Marshall, venture across field kick like
happened at weekend field, vice versa. You see all these
teams sneer putting kicks in for Ashton. We've had nothing
different for years and years.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
It's apart from the hoof in the air exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
So if we bring our wingers into play and we're
in our own twenty thirty thirty meter line, third fourth tackle,
let's put a kick in for the winger. Especially we've
got pace out there. That's different.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
People have got their own ideas and fans have got
their own ideas, but we don't seem to be changing
much on the field yet. I mean, I think as
well as well, I've been unlucky with the gingerest He's
never really had this first his first thirteen on the
pitch at all.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Possibly, but every team has that, you know, every every
team has that. You know. I think you can blame
last season. I think you can blame injuries to a
certain extent. But certainly the games that we lost that
we were we could have won every single one of
them games. It was better, like like we said before,
whether it's better management off the field, on the field, whatever,

(22:22):
it is, confidence with the players. I don't know, but
I think I think certainly the I don't know the
I don't know what I'm trying to say. I think
I think certainly, you know, I can't. I don't think
you can blame it all on injuries.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
No, you go back to the point where it's for me,
it's the same no matter what team you put out. Yes,
you have a standard player who can produce better players,
et cetera. But whoever puts that shirt on, whoever's in
that position, they should all play the same way. They
should aill have the same game plan. You shouldn't change
a game plan depending on who you'd play, and we've
done that over the past few years. Last year we

(23:03):
played open rugby we were putting fifty sixty points on
the lower teams, but when we played Wigan hut guard
Warrington leads, we changed that game plan and we were
literally went back to four drivers to drop off a kick.
And that was every time you see it. If you
have a game plan, stick to it. We can week
out and maybe then you'll start threatening some of the
big teams. Okay, I don't change the game plan with

(23:23):
the playing those or the playing Castle for same with Wigan.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, one thing I was shocked about, and this was
again on the wigging game, was the you know, we
had Benson on the field and then he was sub substituted.
I think it was in the second half that was
it was that what it is? And then he came
back on was that was? That was right? So I

(23:49):
missed I must have been too many paints in by
that point.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
I missed that.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
But I found that bizarre that we've got a winger
set on the bench.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
We did it the week before, but apparently that was
planned for and Murphy to play.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
But Murphy played that Murphy Murphy look good.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yeah, like Murphy.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
He's looking he's got he's looking like a player.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
It was it was like the week before, questioning is
Murphy fair I've got a winger on the bench. But
then that makes sense because after X amount of minutes
we pulled Murphy off, but we had a bit of
cramp anyway, didn't it. But the whole plan was him
to come off after sixty minutes anyway, And then at
weekend then like I said, he looked, he looked. I
thought he looked really good.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
But the problem, the problem is without a fit Murphy,
without Withelt being out for three months, no Robertson, don't
know how long that could be, three or four weeks
as well. We haven't got we haven't got the design,
the design of the team from from the start of
the season, and we haven't got anything to replace it with.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Really, No, That's the saddest.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Thing, isn't it, Because I mean, you know, I think
we said this on the first show that we did
this year. We look strong if we've got all our
first choice and I'm going to put Robertson in in
center because at the start of the season, don't think
anyone knew that that was going to be the plan,
to have him as our starting center. We would hope,

(25:05):
we were hoping but you know we didn't.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Obviously he slightly certainly looked the part.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
He's certainly doing it. He's certainly doing it. But you know,
we were going like Wigan, someone drops out, They've got
another good player there and knocking on the door.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Here and not dropping out, and you've got.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Just fills in and it's like but brick swap, perfect
player play. Before the game they announced that this Christian Wade,
Christian Wade has signed for him. Well, you know he
hasn't He played for England, he's played the NFL. You know,
it's like, so he's not He's not going to be
any slouches. I'm guessing he's going to come.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
And then last last week the announced cade Ellis had
sounded a new deal. Well, don't forget they were missing
Mago on Friday, Tom Thompson and have had and have
had some player And to be fur they didn't look
yes for me, were there for they're taking on Friday
and we just didn't. We just didn't do enough to
get over. Well, if you're going to start playing with

(26:05):
twenty minutes from the end of the game, you're not
going to do enough to get over.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
But we all know we're going to have injuries throughout
the season that brings us.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
To this old, this old chest of recruitment, doesn't it correct? Yes,
which is what we've always complained about. And I was
looking back at this and I was thinking, have we
fallen between the stools here because we now know that
Bachelor Belle and Knowle's are going has is the recruitment
that we're doing at the moment for next year, not
this year and the last and the last years. The

(26:33):
recruitment for this year, which should have been done last year,
has not been good enough or has been with an
eye of the for next year, if you see what
I mean. Because of players coming off contract.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Even come out of a weeknning today, they're going to
spend to the cap and they've already been in talk
for some some key players in the n RL for
next year, which in the day of Nolds is leaving.
We know that you can't just replace him with anybody.
It's got to be a big sign in th replaces,
because it's a keeper now for us. But if you
look at the beginning of that, I will defend saying
slightly if you're not the only thing I can't You've

(27:09):
got horror Bell and and by Siranon all on quota places,
aren't you? Siranon speaks for itself, no brainer. The other
three the Bell I do like him, but if he's
taking up a quota base and you know he's going

(27:30):
a year later anyway.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Shouldn't your quota spaces be first team players exactly?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
You look at Wiggans, Friguments, Kieran french Field, k Cust
not cost he was just signing a new deal. He's
banned anyways, kay ellis you look at the four signings

(27:54):
compared to bell And, by Horror and Siron, it's.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
There's only there's only saying a who you do have?
You know exactly, It's just it's just not good enoughing
You look at that for him, But it shows on
the shows on the field, doesn't it when you know
whether we're going down, whether it's the coach's fault, whether
it's the player's fault, whether it's a thing. On Friday,
we just weren't good enough.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Again we have if you turn up and play the
game plan. We had a team good enough to beat
Wiggan there, but which didn't. I don't think anyone knows
what the game plan is. Well, that's my pointing, well,
that's the it's.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Certainly changing from Wolf, but it's just changes. The Bringers
did say it would take same time.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
That's fine, and I'm willing to give them that sign.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think we get to fourteen points and ring the
bell to stop playing. What's gets to a point in
the game where you ring the bell and said right,
you can play now for fifteen twenty minutes and then
ring the bell to stop and playing, Because that's all
we're getting at the minute. We're having four big teams.
We're playing KR Warrington, Warrington, Wigan. We put an eighteen
minute performance.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
This is another another big game we lost. We're now
not for fifteen I think it's seventeen seventeen nows it is.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
And then we've got Warrington coming on. The leads are
playing well. Magic can't this well? Playing them at Magic weekend,
there's a good chance we turn over by them.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Well, we've got to do something quickly or it's another
right off seasons.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
No, I get that, But to your point about recruitment,
apart from the overseas quote, as that for me should
have been sorted. But if you look at not sign
another center because we're going to bring Robinson in. I'm
all for that, and I said that right at the
beginning of the season. They're going to play Robinson at
the center. I don't blame if you're not sign a center.

(29:35):
If you're going to give Whippy a chance at half back,
totally makes sense. Which now that's coming through, and then
I'm thinking, we've got Delay and A, We've got wingfield,
we've got Stevens. Do we need to go out and
sign another prop. We've not seen no Stevens yet, but
deep down we need another prop because Warves is not

(29:56):
doing it. Partsy's playing well. I think Parts is doing
a good job. These Lea's is always solid, Matthew Lee's
is solid. You know what you're getting from them too.
I'd love to say you know what you're getting Delay
any but for me, it's just not not big enough.
And he gets not back more times than he drives
the opposition forward, sorry backwards, and I just think, give

(30:18):
Noe Stevens a chance. And in an ideal situation, we
signed a big a big tongue and a big Samow
and forward somebody like that to carters forward and what
Warms used to do make that break quick play the
ball then Clark can jump then and Whippy and Wellsby
on the back because Saints play their best rugby when
we're on the front foot. And at the minute our
forwards aren't getting us on the front foot to do that.

(30:40):
But when we throw the ball.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
The spell the worst spells.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
But then is that because our forward are only playing
for twenty minutes fifteen minutes?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
We could have beat Wigging on Friday. We could and
we didn't.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
But that's becoming a pattern now. All the games against
the what you'd call the top we used to be
a top team.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
We've got on Thursday, it's six from six from six
we've been beat.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, well they beat us four times last year, isn't
they beat us obviously now?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Just to be great seven?

Speaker 1 (31:16):
But why Rebello was in the league? I know, I know,
Like what is going on? Yeah, the difference is warrants
at the minute.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
But they can get themselves up for for playing where
we shuddle. We can get ourselves playing playing Wakefield and
Castleford and Salford, but the rest of the teams are
struggling to get.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
I don't still I still don't understand why we are
all we struggling at the center and they're going back
to the original. But we're talking about Harry is only
a young kid. Percy is going to be out for
ten of the games of the season minimum. Why haven't
we got another center.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, we've got comrades, but we need in fact, we.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Need twelve We knew twelve months ago didn't.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Well and turned down and said we don't even know
if Conrad is going to returned back to full fitness.
You're thinking, why have we wasted a coach spot. I've
been a massive Conrad whole fan in his time, but
why were wasting a coked spot? And if we're going
to keep Conrad and giving the opportunities do you get fit?
They don't keep and buy and.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Well they've got contracts, so you can't. You can't wipe
out contracts.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
It's it's such a tough situation. But we've always been
like on the ground, like you said, person is unbelievable
play when he's on the field, but half the time
he spends more time off the fieldings just on it.
So you need cover. And we did that few years
ago party when we had hop party. Conrad and Percy
didn't because we rotated. But as much as I like
top of Arty. Again, he was only a twelve games season,

(32:48):
but it works because Conrad played pretty much the full season.
He stayed fit and Percy person Hoparty was swopping over them.
It works, but we.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Must have been able to see that we have problem
ticket center.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah, well you would have hoped so.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, but you know the young cross thing hanging around
in the background isn't. Then we all roll our eyes.
But even even then, he did give us a good
scene too that time when we got back to That's
off and he was centered and he was superb. But
he's been playing he's been playing wing for the last
two years.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's because Solford centers are so good. He can't get
in there. And now they've got no team.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
I'm wondering whether they thought about Vaughn possibly being the
you know, like the third choice center with your like
or fourth choice center, but unfortunately he hasn't got the
pace pace and apparently by all reports is signed for Wigans.
So you know, I don't think he solf at the
minute academy back rower for he was academy back row. Yeah,
but then then the Saints true style, they put him

(33:48):
in center, put.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
The covering injuries, injuries, but again back to cross every
other team jumping on the.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
He's got three or four centers, we've got We've got
one and a half.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Everyone's jumping on the Solver situation. Warrington side Snead Watkins
has gone back to Leeds. What Kings are playing proper
the other day but everybody's like, les, don't they sold?
Didn't they sign too?

Speaker 1 (34:14):
I'm not sure that the year before Bloodyecroft.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, but they're jumping on the situation and Saints are
apparently and over a couple of quid here and it's
just how I suffered.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Signs Singleton, Well, they.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Can have single anyway.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
He is a prop.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
I'd rather play with the prop less than play with him.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
He's a penalty machine as well.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
But it's just frustrating because what's happening in Saints Needer
center and Crosses perfect perfect a fellow situation for the
time being, and he would be down the line probably
very good squad player.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Problem that is next.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Academy.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
So but it just baffles me that Saints, like, why
then are in at the end of the day, not
asking him going and pay a fortune? Are in?

Speaker 3 (35:04):
Or are they just trying to get away free.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
They're probably waiting until we can get out of the
peanuts and then what will happened? Then they'll go brilliant,
wash our hands a way for a hands and go
we're going for free. And then somebody else will pop
up Warrington and probably snipping and pay them a year
and missed out.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
So it's a blank sheet. Lads, what's the answer to
our couldn't malaise? What do you do? What do you do?
Paul your your your coach for a week?

Speaker 2 (35:27):
What do you do if I was coached this week?
Just give him freedom to playing. Just go out and
play rugby and not turn up and have to play completion, completion,
completion and completion. Because at the end of the day
we come off and say, with our completion rates such
a thing, so the completion rates, go out and play rugby,
entertain Whitby, go and do what you've been doing. I
know it's completely different saying step up in the championship

(35:48):
to Super League, but Whipby is doing the kicking, chase,
putting his wingers in for tries. Going do that in
Super League, you're proving that you can you can step
up to this level. Then take it up a notch
or two again, let nerf have a free free for all,
because at end of the day when he was at weakfield,
he was scoring tried for fun.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Are we saying it sounds like you're saying it's a
psychological problem here.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, because you see straight away and you come out
what you're going to get. And we've been saying for
the last number of years it just go out and
then playing stay in rugby Saints. His brand is entertaining
and we've not done that in years. And we've got
the I still say we've got question marks over a
few players, but we've still got the place to do it.

(36:28):
Get Wellesby, get the ball in and Wellesby, get Whitby,
get the wingers involved, get the centers involved, and just
let's play some open rugby plan. I think you'll see
a completely different team if we turn around and played
that game plan from minute one instead of minute sixty.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
But is that is that because of the conservative elements
in well In Well I was thinking that it is
almost feared of getting it back, getting hiding.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Well we've been beat by. We were just mentioned that.
Then with the last fifteen times we've played the top
four or top five teams with him beat. So something's
going to change. He's done well, He's had balls to
put Whitby in. Now I've ball to turn around and
give Whitby the freedom and Wellsby the freedom and sailor
so on so on to play rugby. Let Clark do
what he wants to do in the middle. Don't be
dictated to him, told to play a certain way. Go

(37:16):
and play entertaining rugby, and I think we'll see a
completely different things to him.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Parent if I was coach this week, I've take him
over to the top of Bill and Jill, let him
look over the other side and see what we should
be playing like, or you know, where we should be
in the league. But I don't know. I think it's
It's a tough one, isn't it, Because like I said before,

(37:40):
you know you mentioned about a plan. I don't know
what the plan is for Saints. I don't know what
the plan is on the field. I don't know what
the plan is off the field. We just seem to
be all at a loss at the minute as to
where the club's going and what direction we're going in.
We've got Paul Wellens. Everyone loves Paul well and sa
Death he's an absolute club legend. But we've brought in Briers,

(38:03):
you know, another local lad, which you know we trying
his best. By all accounts. You've got Aim no Carol,
you know he's come on board and you know our
defense seems to be a bit better.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
It's not too much wrong with the defense.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
You know, the defense seems better, the attack seems better
in spells. So what's changed since last season? Not a
lot but snippets. So you know, I think the question
and this will probably come in the next couple of
weeks for us all. We've got some big games coming up.

(38:37):
I think Warrington leads at the Magic and I think
it's whole KR. It's tough, it might I think it's
either whole Kr away or Catalan at home. You know.
So there are sort of like four next games. We
might have a week off because we've got binned off
out the Cup, but I think that'll say a lot
for Wellens' future at the clubs as head coach. For me, well,

(38:59):
that's look.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
We've got We've got Warrington on bizarrely on a Thursday
night this week, haven't we And they've just lost to
Lee and what I thought was a pretty poor performance
from them, And know George Williams for ten weeks now,
Williams in the last two games against US has been
the key, the key for them. So whether that puts
us on a level playing for it with them or not,
I don't know, but I think again it's a confidence
matter if we if we play like we can play,

(39:23):
we shouldn't have an issue. But we seem to play
like Going back to the Waker game, we were twenty
odd up and only won by ten points. Got through
a beat in the second half.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
We've got just sixteen points, didn't we Then we chose
to go over two in two opportunities twice twice.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
That was the most bizarre thing because we Waitfield won
the rack.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
We could have scored. I'm quite confident if we weren't
scored one or at least we would have scored on
one of the sets up of the two because you're
right on the twenty line. And then we go for
two points.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And then then we then Whitley scored again the start
of ten minutes into the second half, Yeah, twenty six nil,
and then we lost the rest of the game fourteen.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
So we would have scored just before half time. Then
we're like thirty points up and the game's completely out
of reach. But then because you yes.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
We finished off of thinking fib another ten minutes, we've
lost this exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah, we were exactly And it's just so frustrating to
watch because that game there, like Darren said, then don't
take your foot off the gas, just keep going, keep going,
and that was a game where we could have quite
easily got forty to fifty points because the field then
we'd run.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
The ropes is the less pressure playing at the Holleywall
Jones at the minute, there will be more pressure.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
I think the pressure on Thursday night will be a mental.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
I think the more pressure. But then I think there
would be a bit of a shock as well, depending
on how many fans go there, because normally Saints fans
travel in massive numbers and they do most places. But
now it's the point where we played Warrington twice already
in the last two months month we got beat by
a Wigan fans have already been to Catalan. Then they're

(40:57):
expected to go to Warrington again where we're not having
the best look at the minute and we're watching the
same old rubbish. If we turned around I mean you
were going to be entertained then a lot of fans
will make that extra effort.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
What was what was the atmosphere like in the supporters
on Friday?

Speaker 3 (41:13):
The atmosphere was fantastic when when the team we're on
the up and the you know, we could see the
team we're actually playing the try and that they're going forward,
the team that the fans get behind him, you know,
and at times it was it was loud that way
and which certainly was in our end. I don't know
how it came across TV, but you know, hopefully that

(41:36):
resonates to the players on the pitch and you know,
you go back to the Wakefield game, I mean, I
thought the atmosphere then was absolutely terrible.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
There's just a lack of But it's so hard to
kind of like you play the Wigan, you play Warrington.
So we've played Warrington twice in the last couple of weeks.
We've got Warrington and this week I know one of
the Warrington vix was a cup game, but we've not
even play Ordersfield. So the fixtures don't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
At all now.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
And if you're picking, if you're the U League and
you're throwing out the fixtures early on. Ideally you would
stay away from it. I know it's hard to say,
but potend to keep some of the bigger teams away
from the cup fixtures. If you know there's a challenge
cut round, then keep from them big fixtures. Away from
that because sometimes, like I said, it takes a gloss
off them games because at the beginning of the season

(42:25):
you're looking forward to them Saints, Wigan, Saints Warrington even
leads to an extent, you have certain fixtures in your
calendar that you're thinking, right, I'm looking forward to. But
now we're playing them teams three four times a season,
the excitement and the buzz isn't there for it.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
I'll be surprised that there's about one thousand Saints fans
there on Thursday night. As few as that, yeah, one,
because it's a Thursday night. But like you've just alluded
to their pol you know, we played them twice in
a month already. You know, it's like we paid to
go last time. You know, I'm reluctant to pay again
to rush over there on a night as especially if

(43:02):
we're you know, playing the way we are. But at
the end of the day, I can actually see us
turning Warrington over on Thursday because it would be Saints
through and through that, won't it. Yeah, you know, especially
with George Williams not playing. I think I think you
know if we well, going back to the question before,
what what you know what we would do if if
you're a coach this week and you're right, Paul, I'd

(43:24):
just give them the free range. So do you know what?
Going have a play going. There's there's no game plan
this week. Just go and throw that ball around and
just try and try and do your best and let's
see what happens. Let's see what positives we can take
from that from your ideas, because at the end of
the day, it's not something's not right, something's not working,
and it just we just see to just disjointed on

(43:48):
the field, off the field and everything surround the club
at the moment, disappointed.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Disconnects between the club and the fans starting a little bit.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
That's the annoying thing that Saints. We've got a solid
fan base there and they take good numbers home and away,
but sometimes it's just for granted that all they'll be there,
but you've got to be entertained and again, you don't
mind losing. It's not all about winning. Well it is,
but at the end of the day, you don't mind
losing and you see a good performance and we're not
seeing that at the minute. And at the end of

(44:18):
the ABC, like at the end of the tunnel and
you see these young lads coming through Harry Robinson Whitby,
you stand by and because they're giving them all and
you're seeing something, but you just want a bit more
from If the youngsters are giving it, then let the
let the older lads give it, give a bit more
as well.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
And we just seem to be falling behind in everything
that we're doing, whether it be recruitment, whether it be
you know, on field, off field, it whatever we're doing,
we just seem to be falling behind a lot of
other other clubs. We look at Wigan and Wiggan. Okay
are they They revealed the average attendance so far this

(44:55):
year and I think Saints were just over ten thousand,
maybe nipping on eleven thousand, Wigan nineteen thousand, five hundred
average crowd.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Pro Wow, it's pretty good because they've had big games.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
They've had a lot of big games. Yeah, and granted
twenty five thousand with Saints, but they attracted twenty one
thousand against Lee. When they played I think Cuddersfield they
had something like eighteen thousand.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
There's the Lee ones, probably because the built Yeah that
was the first season. Yeah, all all that sort of stuff.
But we you know who kr I know the stadiums
smaller than ours, but again they're selling.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
They're selling the selling a week every week. They're sold out.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Because it's entertaining to watch and the trying on and
off the field. Like you've just said, then look at
Morgan's come in with season you think you think Evel's
is playing really really well? Right right, well we're going
to step up here. They bring Morgan Evl's ghost Huddersfield.
They've already signed Tom I Moan for next season and
apparently it's organized him to go to Castleford, which you think,

(46:06):
good on them, unbelievable. Let's not have one of the
top teams getting in for the rest of the season.
Will take him organized for cast having for the rest
of the season cast I don't know Frex or was
the whole for example.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
You probably won't play against them either, or Tom.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Monill go to Castleford play the Seeds play, get his
game time in there the rest of the year, then
he goes to Okay next year when Hargreaves leaves, does
Saint Yeah, there's a planning place as exciting Firs.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
In fairness, Saints here, there's a plan with other clubs
because they tell the fans what they're doing, where the
Saints may well have a plan and we may well
have two or three coming in for next year, but
we will.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Not staying anybody October September.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
We only tell people and season ticket time, don't we.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
All that does is it just deflights the fans. It
just deflates the atmosphere. You know that there's it.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Makes us look as if we're behind the other clubs.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
But yeah, it doesn't. You know, I hope you're right
Gray in the fact that you know, we already know
we were losing for next year so far, and you know,
there's a lot of other players where you know, the
contracts are up at the end of the season and
they've not renewed with us. You know, it's not been
announced that they're going anywhere else, but certainly you know
we know that and going you know.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Going to the Dolphins.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Have we signed anybody if we have, why are we
not announcing that. I don't understand, because all it's going
to do is, you know, there's two or three others
I think, and buyers up and buys up.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
As can't stay. Both of them can't stay.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
So there's five spots. There's there's five spots from from
Johnny Vaughan from your first seventeen yeah, plus Davis.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
And then Davis Pills.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
But I just yeah, I just sat Saints. Now. We're
all we're all crying out for some hope, and we're
all crying out for some vision of what what we're
going to say. I mean, Aim and Aim and Manister
has come out and said, yeah, we'll spending the full
cap next year. Well we're going to be under the
cap because we're getting rid of, as you say, find players.

(48:07):
We're not signed anyone else yet, not yet. So you know,
we just need some hope. We need something from the
club to say, right, this is guys. We know you
know obviously this is what's going to happen next year.
We've got this coming in. We're planning for this. We're
planning for that. Whether they are or not, it doesn't
you know, we just need some hope and.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Future teams come out of exactly like hook Are turn
around and announce Hargreaves is retirement of the year. They
make an event of it day.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
By the way, Yeah, tom Own's coming after tom My
Moon's coming in, so the fans like, oh, well, he's
been unbelievable this season so far, but to my own's
coming in.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Wow. Saints like, right, x Ryan Zed's leaving. Will announce
the players who are coming in September October just before
the season tickets.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Yeah, it's not good enough.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
And Saints we've got away with so much over the
last few years because we've been so high, but at
the minute, because we're falling away in so many different areas.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
I think to a certain extent, we've been victims of
our own success. Yeah, because if you're winning the championship
four times on the run, you're you're increasing those contracts
with those players all the way through. So at some
point when you don't win it and you don't make
the money that you wanted to make that full that
drops off from some of those players, and now four
or five years older the past the peak and you've
got to rebuild. And that's where we are but we're not.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
It's a joyous is it Because we've discussed for Wigan
given all these players four five year contracts when we
were top dogs. That's all well and good at the
minute for Wigan doing that, but is that going to
last because the players who were good at the minute,
are they still gonna be the same player in twelve months,
eighteen months, three years. Possibly not, So you don't know.
But at the minute it's working for Wigans, so we're

(49:44):
going to stick in to the process and it's working
for them. It's working for Hoky doing what they're doing.
But each signing Hooky are announcing, a lot of them
are big name signings and some of them even like
taking that broad Bench was cast his best player last year.
Look what he's doing now is great. He's solid, very
very solid player and every time he comes in he
does a job, whether it's at fall back, half back,

(50:05):
winters center. And at the minute, we're just not like
we're pretty fussing about over the Dean Cross situation, over
probably knowing Saints two three thousand pound the end of
the day, if that's what he wants, giving him and
then get him in because apparently he's not training for Soulford.
He sat there, he's not been paid. What's going to
happen now?

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I think if that goes on again, I think he
walks away. And if he walks away and we don't
get him because he's gone from where.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Saying all, what's going to happen is Saints are probably
open that they'll wait for situations to get worse, so
we'll leave and like I said, he'll he'll go to
somebody else and we'll miss out and go, oh, that's
a shame because we won't pay him next couple of grand.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
For what it's worth. Going back to our original points,
what I would do. I would I would go along
with your let's just play. We're fifth in the league,
now we're dropping down the league. Let's play some let's
play some entertaining. But I wouldn't put I wouldn't put backs,
wouldn't put forwards in the backs.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Full stoff.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
No, I wouldn't have Whitley playing at center.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
No.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Ever, I'd have him if he's if he's he holds
down a place in the pack and play as well.
Fine he stays there, I'd bring Daji and Sambo into center. Yeah,
if there's nobody else. I play a back in the center,
so at least we've got some pace there because if
you if you've got pace there, you can catch some
of you's got through or you've got a chance of

(51:25):
beating somebody exactly. So you've got you've got backs in
the back positions. It drives me not to the number
of times we play. We've played square pegs in round holes.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
We've played picking on games like Wakefield Whitley when he
was playing the back row. When he's play and he's
running different channels, different lines, it's a completely different players.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
It's a different players where it's where he normally plays.
If you're stuck in the center, I can do this,
but you won't. You won't get the rules, you won't
get the rus that person make.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
He's not He's not an eighty minute row bathroing Ram. No,
Whitley is one of these players who like running running
lines out wide and twenty thirty meters out. You'll see
a difference. It will takes the little chip kick through
and you'll put pressure on and he'll run them lines.
But at the minute, we're not playing that start upbeat
that we signed him for.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
But but we've not we've got a hooker there in Burns.
I mean last year I thought Burns came in. He
did a fairly decent job.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
He was great when he was coming on for ten
twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
He didn't you know, for me, he didn't do much wrong.
You know, whether anyone else disagrees, I don't know. But
we've been then switching it, haven't we. So when we've
had like a half fit Daryl Clark, you know they've been.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
There smelling them buying.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
They've been bringing mos of them buy in because also.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
The argument with me, Wingfield has been playing with.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
The argument with them, I can do all things. You
can kick as well, Yeah, well fair enough if you
can kick, But I don't want him kick.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I don't want to kick it.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah, I want him in a proper pass from the
play of the ball, but I'm not throwing something over
somebody's head or being slow as a card the ball.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
It's it's crazy, like, you know, we've got players there
that you know, we've got promise and I think I
think Burns is only on a one year deal. I
think he is deal runs out at the end of
the season. If you're looking at the like he's not
even looking. If you looked at.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Burns for example, he did had a few decent games
last year. He's not me starting nine. He's a decent
back up. But at the end of the day, when
you can what money and buys on comfarred to Burns.
I prefer Burns in my team. He throws a quicker
pass and what bid does and.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I would definitely throw a quicker pass exactly, But because
watching watching them, it's chalk and cheese, watching the likes
of who's the guy that not Michaelaura and the other guy? Okay, are.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
The passes Passel? But I think his brother plays.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
His brother is his brother his current place real little
is not Littleton. I can't remember flipping name. But he's electric,
Jess listen, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Is electric.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
As a hook we're going to have got to leavings.
Leaming's quick and O'Neil's are good, but they've all got two.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
They're taking one one good hooker off and bringing a
good one on well, even playing percentage rugby first half
and then waiting till the games away, and then bringing
Donald Clark on the twenty minutes left, which should be
the opposite way around of a.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Do we see any lights at the end of the
tunne later? Is it just gonna be more of the
same until Felton Robinson a fit and he will be
injured when they're fit.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I like I said before, I think Wellens has got
a really hard month ahead. Whether he is in the
past month, whether he still has a job at the
end of this month, like you know, going into May,
I don't know. And for me, if we've got any
hope of getting anything out of this season, is Wellens

(54:52):
the right person? Do we look at the coach and
do we say that or do we think it's a
bigger Do we think it's a bigger thing with a
club in general of just where we are as a
club at the moment, And maybe we're being harsh on.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
We's going to be the last question of.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
It.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
But no, it's not really you brought it, brought it brought,
you brought it in in a nice way in a sense.
It's is his time up? Or is it time just
to give him that?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
So what? So what do you do now? Le situation?
We're not tought the Cup realistic unless we have but
saying that the way we're going at the minute, we
should make the top six.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
We should be sure now Warrington Warrington leads and realistically
each season you should be in the top six and
guarantee well your two games away from the Grand Final.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And if you have all your bodies fit leads have
done it for years and.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Years, you've got a chance.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
We've we almost did it last year. We had the
worst season we've had in years. But we've got a
fit almost a fit seventeen on the field and we
had a good stab at it. But what we now
do we turn around and say, right, Wellens, go and
do what you can get the lads playing, or do
we turn around and go the season is pretty much

(56:07):
over because at the minute we're not going to compete
against Wig. We're not going to beat competing against our
car and the last six matches if you're not competing
in each Warrington. So we'll get rid of Wellens and
then bring in somebody else. But but the bathwater stuff,
that isn't it.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
The fans will get on Wellens back. We've not We've
not beat We've just alluded to it. We've not beat
Warrington in six games. This could be a seventh game.
I mean, then we've got, you know, a daunting task
of Magic weekend in front of everyone, in front of
the cameras and everything. Let's say we lose that and

(56:43):
then we've got either Catalan or whole k are well
if we if we're sitting here in in you know,
and we've But if we're sitting here in a month's
time and we've lost all them four games, arguably against
four big clubs, what are we saying? Does Wellens keep
his job or not?

Speaker 2 (57:03):
I think he should have gone already to be for
just the style of rugby we're playing, until he comes
out and does something different there.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
What isn't isn't a downward spiral until he makes made
to changes.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
He's made a big change, which I think is what
you think if he wouldn't have brought being a.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Third play to him he did that call with why I.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Think a lot of fans would have probably shouted shouted
for him gone earlier. But even if it's only been
the last two weeks, good Friday, there Whippy comes out
and to be feel Whitby praised him in his interview
into them, which he had done for him, et cetera,
et cetera. But I just think he's buying himself and
of a week at the minute, I think you'll get
to I think if we don't be wanting to know

(57:44):
Leeds or Scraper against Catlin at home, then we'll probably
gonna get turned over it okay, seventh then all right,
and then we'll be He'll be holding out then for
Huddersfield or a cast fixture again because we're going to
put a number on them. And then Wellens will come
back out and go say, I told you've got in
the bag. And then but it's it's not good enough,
it's it's you want to be you want to be playing,

(58:05):
you want to be competing against these top teams. You
want to be grinding out some of the results. And
again you're not bothering you don't win every game because
it's impossible to do that.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
It was an impossible poison chalice to take once will
for gone. Yeah, to be fair to looking at the
history of the club, what happened, it's like it's like
going it's like leaving United after Ferguson.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
What happened though then because we had gone on one
four back to back titles. Everybody else if you know,
it's wig and turn their season now and that year
didn't they turn, the recruitment went from probably very average
recruitment to next level recruitment. Warrington up the ante when
sam Burgers come in, everybody around.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Us pieces when it's okay, are with a whole.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Then went to the next level with her recruitment, so
it was kind of like but.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Again first towards we were stuck with all the contracts given.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Stepped up, but then we didn't. We kind of like
sat An. We went to Oz beat penrificent. We come
home thinking everything was absolutely perfect, and it was. But
then when we got to mid series and that was thinking, oh,
well this isn't great, but you ride out because we've
won the World Cup Challenge. So then possibly last year
you're still holding onto that World Cup Challenge result from
the year before, but it's still not good enough. But

(59:20):
now you're a couple of seasons on again you're thinking
something needs to change and again you don't want it.
Well to turn round and can produce some performances and
get us playing the way we can do, then he'll
win the fans back. But at the minute, each week
by playing the boring game, Pan will playing.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
To fix it. It's like a it's like an it's
like almost got an anxiety that he's got to stick
to what he knows is winning, but it's not going
to win.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
As he got the back end of the club. Well
he's got a one year deal, an't.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
He, So you know he runs out this year, he
runs it.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
So this is this is his technically his final year
on his contract.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
But there was there was a room strength of it
towards to with Wolf.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
With Wolf, but you know, I don't know we come
back to that point of it. Just everything just seems
a bit disjointed at the minute. And I don't know
whether it's I don't know whether I need to be
blaming Wellens. I don't know know whether I need to
be playing the club. I don't know whether I need
to be blaming the two grounds man or the you know,
the woman who serves the season, the coffees. I don't

(01:00:22):
know who it is at the minute, but there's something
not right within, whether it's the club, the coaching, I
don't just something not right. And we're right and Wellens
has made a big call in the dropping Lomax bringing
with being great, that's what we want to say, and
if he does more with that, then hopefully, you know,

(01:00:42):
the fans will start backing him if that change.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
If we turn up at Warrington on Thursday for the
ball around play entertaining rugby, turn I not hopefully results.
We turn around and go, you know what, we're just
putting eight minute performance and we scored some fantastic either
beat Warrington or run really close. You can wait for
that game thinking third play then not just as an

(01:01:06):
eighty minute performance. We back it up against Leeds. Turn
leads over. We're playing entertaining rugby. You turn around and go,
you know what for play well keep very much if
you want the same rubbish apple watching week in week out.
It's not even like I'm not being funny. Any of
us three around the table now turn around and go,
drop off four drives, kick it's anybody can coach it. It

(01:01:30):
doesn't take it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
We've said it before. You stop going back to our
default setting. Change the default setting to have a go.
The teams that have beat us in the past have
always thrown it around exactly you know, and you've got
to throw it around for sixty minutes now.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
That's what famous for. We did used to be called
the entertainers. I think.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
We get twenty minutes a week it's like a standard.
It's like going to a stand up in it that
we do twenty minutes so each week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
But it's we'll it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
It's true. It's true now, and it's well, we can
laugh at it because we cry.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Otherwise we all sing a song. If I hadn't seen
such riches, I could live with being poor. Well, yeah,
so maybe we'd Maybe we're all just too demanding.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Who knows, so we This is my sixtieth the year
watching the SATs. It's all cyclic. I watched this when
we were really bad.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
My grandad tells them not so age of Graham, but
my granddad tells me about them times as well. And
you know, he says, we're certainly Me and our Paul
when we were growing up were certainly lucky to have
watched the successful side, you know, nineties into the two thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
And I'd been to games in the late seventies, early
eighties where I'd walk up at on a Tuesday night
some game and I'd be stood there on that terry
under the scoreboard. Yeah, and I'd be the only one
for twenty yards, you know. And and have since getting
tonks as well in the sleet and the snow and whatever.
But so it's and we've got a I've got a

(01:03:00):
runp of fans sadly who've only known success.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
That's one of the things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Yeah, again like it. We always say it. It's not
all about winning. You just want to watch a good performance.
And I think, yeah, if we start performing the way
we know we can't and with the results don't come
and the fans can see we're trying, but at the
minute we're just producing that one out boring rugby and
it's kind of like kids stuff, were right, Let's get

(01:03:25):
the three or four drives in and then we'll throw
the ball out and see what we can do on
one tackle before we kick it. Well, why do we
have to wait exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Why not wait? Don't do what it's stupid. There's gonna
be some common sense, like what party did well At
the same time, if there's something on your I do it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
If there's something on your own twenty and Murphy's got
fifteen meters espace on his own with people are kick
to him, Let's go down the opposition opposite end and
score a try and or if it's on and if
the kick doesn't quite pay off, then at least have
tried it. I'd rather watch something not come on of
them try it then not try it at all.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
All right, So sitting him in two weeks time, we've
been to Warrington and we've been played leads at magic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
What do you?

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
What do we do? Where are we at?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
What do you if we've won or lost? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
What do you think of?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
What do you've watched? Your view of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I honestly don't know how it's going to go on Thursday.
I don't, but it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Just got to the state of our thoughts on the clue.
What's happening.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I don't know. I can't. I'd love to think Saints
to go out and beat them, but honestly, at the
minute I can't. I can't see it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
And if the Saints that played for the last twenty
against Wigan and the first forty first fifty against Wakefield
turn up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
No problem, we'll be fine. Fine. Well, when we turned up,
we've put up forty minute performance in neat Warrington the
last few times we played, and if you go to
sixty minutes there we'll beat them. Or even if you
do forty minutes we would have been through one of
them games. I just I can't see it. I can't
call Thursday nights. I hope Williams not playing is a
big factor for them, and that's a bit of a

(01:04:59):
gut game changer, and it levels out a bit. Whippy
gets more confidence. We see him more in the game,
and I think he sparks a bit more energy and
firing to us. If warms he can keep hold of
the ball, that'll be a bonus we might get on
the front foot. I'm definitely putting Clark at nine until
leaving them on the bench for last twenty. If and
By starts on Thursday, I think we're in trouble. But

(01:05:20):
if Clark starts and we go for early Doors, well
hopefully see different saints. If we then go to Magic
and get a performance, I think we beat Leads. But
if we go out and play four or five drives
and a kick, I think we're loose Leads because.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Leads on the Big Step player, they can play.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
Leads can play, and I think they like turn up
at Magic, don't They don't. We've had a few hidings,
but they've also put a few hidings on a few
other teams, and they turn up with a big crowd
because that's a day out to them as well, and
they're not scared of playing rugby. So I actually I
think we'll beat Leads at Magic, but God knows what's
going to happen on Thursday.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
And the other way around. Think will stuff the wire.
It's their times get stuffed on film Thursday we definitely own.
I'm six now well every beating forth and as happy
as well. No, I think we'll beat Warrington on Thursday.

(01:06:20):
I just I've got a feeling because do you know what,
Like I said before, I can't see that away and
being packed. There will be a lot of empty spaces
which will speak for itself for me, and I can
just see it being one of them games where a
lot of fans won't go and Saint will turning in
the performance. I then can't see us beating Leads at

(01:06:42):
Magic because it's a big event.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
Well, the thing is, I think I'm looking at the
other way. I mean, I get the where you're coming from.
I think we'll I think we'll squeeze pass Wire on
Thursday purely because we're But I can see us putting
them Aerfemance at Magic because I think the pressure will
be off there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Warrington get status, Wasrington get kicked out a very very
good month?

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
If we haven't, if we have another wolf board performance
against Warrington away we're packing, we'll get hammered in in
We'll get hammered in magic because the comments have gone.
If we play a bit of rugby and win Warrington,
it'll spur us on to play with a bit more
freedom and magic. Otherwise we could could be in trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
We could go with your beat Warrington, throw the ball
about against Leeds. Cattle on at home?

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Then?

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
I think we've got a week off. You can go
and watch Warrington and league and stand in your normal
place if you want.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
I won't be doing that shout. I think it's shout again.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Sorry, that is bad planning by the rugby league they've got.
If that's the way it falls, which I think it is,
You've the magic weekends and then a Challenge Cup semi final, so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
There's no games to follow up the it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
Top because I think Newcastle's still got two o games
the semi final.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
You think the plan is bringing get I give up.
We had this conversation to two weeks ago, but what
the hell is going on. So anyway, we still enjoy
the game, we still enjoy the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
I'm trying to.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Convince enjoy them to pay pictures that on Friday, that's
what I did enjoy on the way home.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Well, thank thanks for thanks for trying to cheer us up.
Thanks for Paul. We'll see in a couple of weeks
when hopefully that the rest of lads will be back.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
But try and enjoy your AGA league.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
Please couldn't name me.