May 7, 2025 • 58 mins
That Saints Pod – Join Graham Cunliffe, Ste Orford, Gaz Tinsley, and Darren Rigby as they break down all the action from the latest two clashes featuring St Helens RLFC. This episode dives deep into the Saints' recent performances against fierce rivals Warrington Wolves and Leeds Rhinos. Expect passionate analysis, honest opinions, and plenty of banter as the lads review the highs, lows, and talking points from both games. Whether you bleed red and white or just love a good rugby league chat, this one's for you
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to that Saints podcast recording after Magic
Weekend and all the joys that that brought. First of all,
for the a new thing for the pod, We're going
to start with an apology. This is going to sound
exactly like the last four shows with the miserable, miserable,
whining Drost conference. Yes, it's going to be mildly better
(00:30):
than the Paul Carriage press conference. Yes. So who we
got with us tonight? Rotation in place? Tonight Gas Tills
his back, Hello, Gas, are you doing evening? Good? And
Darren Rigby's back with us to good evening and to
make sense of it all stay up returns.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm not sure I can guarantee that, but good to
be a good evening.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well we're to start. I mean the last, last, last show,
we had an hour and a half about Wigan and
the Derby and poor we were, and I thought it
couldn't be any worse, and then we went to Warrington
and oh dear the Hollywood Jones on a Thursday night
for the For the basics, the facts are Whire thirty
two STS eighteen, a truly poor performance to the Hollywee
(01:12):
Jones against a wire team that was shown of George
Williams and after forty minutes they had no half match
because Mark Steed went off after some friendly fire. At
that point it was sixteen ten or sixteen fourteen I think,
and then it was it was looked like a game,
But after that we fell apart and finished thirty two
(01:33):
eighteen a second half where we only scored a late
try to put some consolation under loss. So let's let's
start with gaz because you went, didn't you what were
your thoughts on this?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And did go that the highlight of the match was
very definitely the seventy balloons before kickoff.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I did appreciate that banner and the banner banner as well.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
The banner and the seventeen in golden balloons was turned
out to be the highlight of the visit. Yeah, just
shocked me to be I mean, I was. I was
very optimistic, as I'm gonna have to stop being really,
but I was very optimistic in the absence of Williams
as the key strike player, without doubt. And then at
(02:15):
halftime when we go in what I'm thinking, You're right,
I think it was only about two behind and they've
also lost Sneed and Danny Walker was going to six.
I said to my daughter, we're gonna win this one.
We're gonna win this one. And then the second half
we were just like staggeringly bad.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well he didn't start well either, did we No, no, no, But.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It was just I just couldn't I couldn't company full time.
I was like, I just couldn't get me ad around.
It was just walked off, not speaking, not saying anything,
just in shock. We just don't seem to be able
to beat what's seven and they're singing seven in a
row now and all this sort of it's no trophies,
just seven winter but you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Don't get a couple that.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But yeah, very very painful. I've been I'd probably been
at all seven of them, and it's getting harder every time.
And I genuinely thought we were going to win that one,
and I just thought it was a lack of almost
desire in the second half. Just didn't see it, didn't
see any fire, and it just just did that. That
(03:23):
did start me to start to think, you know, as
he lost the dressing room, because there was the effort
they put in that second half was pitiful.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, I did. I didn't personally think they knew what
to do even though Warrington were down to well. I
think they must have had nine forwards on the pitch
at one point, and we didn't actually move the ball
around very much time.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That pack of those isn't impressive, and they put one
of the most impressive members into standoff, you know, And
in some of the previous games we've we've probably won
the forward battle, but we certainly didn't that night.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm beginning to feel sorry for young George me now
because he's getting there and I meant to play behind
a beaten pack a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah. So yeah, no, not great, Lad's not great at all.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Darren.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Your thoughts, Well, it was a bad week, wasn't it?
Because the reserves also lost forty eight twelve to Warrington,
So it wasn't It wasn't an ideal week, was it.
How many times we said that in the past, where
Warrington absolutely thrashing us all over the park. But I
thought Perceval was absolutely superb in this game. Yeah, he
(04:31):
was a spot, He was a bright spark and you know,
he probably saved us from getting an ass whopping. We
were discussing it before, but I think the the turning
point for me in the game, and not that we
were any good or not that we showed much about us.
Was when Matty Ashtroon tugged personal back, which it went
(04:56):
up for a no try, and I think if if
that would have been given, And what annoys me more
than anything was the players questioning the referee on that
and nothing was given.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It was unbelievable day.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Everybody could see it when.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm watching the video back. He just didn't go back
far enough now and we all knew he was out
as soon as he finished that. Yeah, he's out of play.
It was a penalty try. Everybody around to say it's
a penalty try because Mattie as clearly pulled him back.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Officiating it, it was a bit of an elephant in
the room at the moment. We are on the wrong
end of some decisions, aren't.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
We use it the case? Isn't it when when you're
backed up against the wall nothing goes right it? But
you know after that, you know you're thinking, okay, we've
we've had a bit of bad luck there. And like
you said, the the effort like dufty, no think sorry,
Tye went through first and he almost crawled over the line,
(05:53):
and you've got players around him like Warmsy was there,
and he almost just like flopped on him. I mean
years gone by, we'd have players getting the rams under
the ball, making sure he doesn't get that ball down.
And then the next try from Dufty, he just ran
through our defense. And I know, I know Sambu got
(06:13):
absolutely crowd, you know, showed up if you like a
couple of times in that game, guys, is right, there's
just no there's no effort there. It's right, it isn't
It's just like, well that's another one gone. And it
was so demoralizing, and you know it's sad.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I mean, defense is the thing, isn't it. Even
through you know, some of the bad performances of last year,
the defense largely held up. But in this game and
there those two misses by Samba one King I'm on
duty were like completely apologetic schoolboy stuff. Terrible. The weird
thing about it as well, as we competed better when
(06:56):
Steve was on the field than we did that after
half time, and it went off when they're running with
Ben Curry and and and Danny Walker in the alves,
both the players bought two things, one of the half
backs and two having them play alf back week in
the back as you mentioned, so we should with no
business losing by that score against the team with no
half backs. That's that's the kind of level we were
(07:19):
stupid to at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
But that side of Samboo and Benison, you know, fried
to kick off again, I said to my mirror, so
they're gonna put everything down that so.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But they did and they got two tries in the
first he can't play again.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Well this swap simple was another dubious.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
One of the Matty Ashton tries. Matty Ashton kills us
every time we played Warrington and did it again in
this game. Seems to play one of us tries. It
was highly dubious. When there was a double knock on,
I thought between the Benison and uh was Toby King
and they were making the pass, but just gave a
knock on Aspenison and ruled that King had picked it
up cleanly, which I just I just couldn't find that one.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
The video actually said he knocks it into the Warrington
player who then goes and picks it up. So if
he's not too into and then he's picked it up,
he knocked it on.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So we got all looking with that one and the
call that you mentioned da but personal for the for
the would be penalty dry. So but having said that that,
we all agree we didn't deserve anything that game for
that second half performance. The defense was like terrible and
the attack as it's used were out of ideas and
(08:31):
hasn't got enough pace.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
The switching of the switching of Perceval obviously helped, didn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But yeah, he brought us back into the game, and
and he was superb.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Shoulders the player there all the time on that side.
I mean he made the King look daft.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I have often said he's much better on the right
because he can't pass the left. Genuinely, he's a wonderful center,
but it's much better on the right. Clearly he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's a lot of the time he doesn't attempt to
pass the lead because I think he knows it's a
bit of a weakness, so he'd rather back himself in
a lot of situations.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
But years gone by, we've had Tommy Tommy making soon
on the other side, don't we. So you know you've
also had almost that covered, haven't you. And obviously i'd
love Tommy back right now, would be helpful but just something.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, we don't have a lot of pace, do we.
I think I think the key's pace off the mark.
And we'll come to that in the in in last
Saturday Nights game when we look at we look at that,
but we don't seem to have any pace.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
There's only a sailor who's got pace, and he's under
pressure because even he got run down by Ash Handley
and that in the Leeds game, which really surprised me.
I thought how quickly he would have gone, but he
ended up getting caught because I think he's just got
passed over a short distance rather than well.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That's yeah, I mean that's just have seen Murphy.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yes, what I mean, he might be gone if he
breaks the line.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
We got start to play more than anything. He's not
getting the ball, and you know, we keep on, I
keep on forgetting. We actually felt who sues to come
back in and Robert Sam Robertson and you know, put
them to on that side. Then we're looking definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Robertson, Felton, Cross or other wing. Yeah, then we're looking
cross of wing person and Robertson its centers and Murphy, and.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I think Cross is a better bet on the wing
than say Bennison.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, without doubt, and then you've still got felt to come.
So I think we have got to think about that
a bit. That we have been really unlucky with injuries
in the backs.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Well it goes that same.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, we're you know others Ava's and the furnace to
well as he was unlucky with injuries all last year
right till back in and we came with the late burst,
didn't we got that?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Well?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I think I think one of the things are being
a good coaches, you've got to have some luck. And
if Wells didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck?
Would he Nocks with his injuries?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
To be fair to him, but especially in that part
of the team. There was one game where we were
playing with a bat line of Benison, Whitley, Synon and
Murphy and you wouldn't wear the championship with that bat line?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Bad? I did? I did? I did remember a point
where we had ten forwards on the pitch at one
point not so long ago. It might have been the
Wakefield game at home.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Why in one center and Bachelor and the other one.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah, and then we've switched it. Now we've got ten
halves on the pitch.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right, So that's another stuff in the wire. Seven to
the wire. At the moment, God, it's going.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
To be good seven last seven, but if we go
back a bit further it worse and worse for them
the trophy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
What was the atmosphere like, by the way, because the
music Warrington, we take the crowds will fill that end
and on TV I didn't go, but on TV it
looks empty.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We haven't filled the crowd for about four or five visits.
I think we are an example of fickle fans. I
think all fans are fickled to before, but ours, ours
definitely are on that Warrington stand. I'm looking around about
twenty past seven, just shaking my head and went, wow,
(12:29):
you know I got I got my tickets the day before,
and I comfortably got them the day before. They still
have them fast. You wouldn't get them two weeks before.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It was I think it's there's two things to that,
isn't There's the there's the third night effect at school
Mines and there we've played that and we're playing dismally
and we're playing that we've lost the last six against,
but we've played them three times if we were winning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It comes down to expectations, doesn't it. If you think
you're gonna win the game in a big crowd, if
you know you're going to get beat, then you'll see
quite a few drop off.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It is like that, isn't it. Wiggins no better example
than Wiggin agreed Darby Ox know they're going to win
if they thought they were going to lose. Half from
won't come. But it was bad.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But the Saints of filling stadiums away, then yeah, it
was poor, and it was poor.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Last time, and it was I can go back to
the sixteen nil last year and that was was. It's
been poor since then. But when we were four in
a row, you couldn't get a sicket, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
All right?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
That is where it is, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Unfortunately, turn our attention to Magic weekend. After watching Leaves
the week before, I thought we had an opportunity puting
things right, but it didn't turn out that way. That
the facts of the game. We'll lead trying to seventeenth
and Talians four. Saints with the solitary try from Matt
Whitley leads with two early tries from Lum and Miller
(13:52):
and a late try from Cannon, two golds from Miller,
and I dropped gold from Sinfield before the game team selection.
It looked decidedly odd to me. Bonkers, I would say
what he thinks a confused stronger words, it is a podcast,
(14:13):
so you can't You're allowed.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
To use tonight for that?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Doesn't it putting the Johnny lobot on the bench and
then you finds having a situation where you have to
take your finger off and make him look silly.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You think you knew tink he knows that Sailor can't
play full back well in which can't in which absolutely
he slipped for the military.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
There he was attacking.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
For me, it's either what Winger is in stand from
what I've since, I've had enough.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I disagree, but disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Also, I think at and he's not paid with Whippy.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
If you give up on him now because he's been
brought in for his pays, if you give up on
him now, you're going back to what didn't work last year.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Correct agree with that Whitby and Johnny right now?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
There's no person now and then and what wells be
at fullback? Is there?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think Sailor is.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'd say you had to find a players with the
team somewhere that wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
The only one. I think he has to stay at sixteen.
Jack has to go back to one, and George has
to be give him the chance to form a partnership
with him.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
For me, I think that the John Benison whole situation
was absolutely disgusting for me. You know you're watching watching that,
and Benson was quite rightly, absolutely pissed off by being
taken off. You know, we all know John's not the
(15:36):
quickest person, but I tell you what he makes up
for in effort and he never he never lets you
down in in in what effort he puts in for
the scene where you know we've we've known in the past,
all the players just are not asked, you know. So
for me to he's if like his escapegoat, and to
have Johnny Lomax on the bench, knowing that at some
(15:58):
point he's going to come on. But to take Benison off,
for me, it's you need to remove I don't know,
someone like him by or even if it's sale the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Other thing about it, by his bonkers.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I can I can understand trying to get Johnny on
the pitch, but why put him on the bench, you
know what I mean, Like like you said, don't put
him on the bench if you need if you want
to put Johnny on the pitch starting but Wellsby, you're right, Grahame.
He has to be fall back, no more faffing around
with He has to be fall back because for me,
when he went to fall back, he's a different person.
(16:36):
He's absolutely lighting the stuff happening. Not very quickly, but
you know, because that's just us at the moment, but
you could see a change.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I think the thing with Jack is he used to
be a standoff when he was a junior and an
academy and England Academy, and he was a superb standoff.
But he's played too long at fullback and he's played
too long at the top level as a fullback. You
can't just suddenly switch somebody to stand off in the
same way in an underperforming team, in the same way
(17:06):
you can stretch, you can just switch your stand off
to full back. And it doesn't make no sense to
me because I said before that we've not had a
settled half back pairing all season. For now, I think
that the halves must be whit being sailor For me,
with Jack back at full back. Hopefully we'll get some
bodies back and will be given a chance to form
(17:26):
a partnership with somebody because the poor lad's getting you're
getting battered now. He's trying to run the thing on
his own. He's taking the line on, he's trying to
do kicks when he's under pressure because there's no there's
no protection for him, and it's just a tricky situation
for certainly for for half back and team selection. But
the other, the other glaring thing for me was no Stephens,
no sign of him.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, that's the thing about putting all out to the bench.
Also weakens your plack options because he's taking up a space.
No Stevens. We got eight minutes against Wynston, I think it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Was, and it looked like the best proper we had.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, along with worms is the only prop we've got
that actually making yards regularly, and it's it's kind of destructive.
The rest of them gets stopped dead at the line
and then them all.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I mean, I can't remember which one it was, but
I think two with the pack I had three and
two yards respected.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well, Steven's made more meters in eight minutes than two
props combined in fifty minutes and it you know that,
the sort of stats like that, You've got to look
at him and go, Stephen's not getting you know, even
a bench spotted start. It's so frustrated.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
When I was watching warm up at Warrington. He is
a always a big unit to anybody. He is a
proper big unit. Miles bigger than Delaney. Yeah, you know
he's but he's wider than Warmsley.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Wonder what he must be seeing something that.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Wingfield.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I just think it's one of the thinks all I
think he might have expresssolutely. I think the only thing
I can think of is that Stevens has expressed some
discountlements and not getting more time, and he's upset somebody.
That's the only reason I think he's not playing.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
All I can say is a good job he signed
a long term deal because I think he'd be looking elsewhere.
And I'll tell you what, that would be one of
them players if he ever went elsewhere, We'll be going
why the hell didn't we sign him? You know, why
didn't we playing more? Why did we give him more
of an opportunity?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I suspect it is as with the benefit situation, it's
just easier to leave him out thy else Natty Lee's
or something like that. Not that suggestion, but as an example, I.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Know you you're right there because that's what I'm getting.
More and more, you're watching them in more and more decisions.
I mean, everybody on that magic weekend against Leeds, everybody
was going, has Benison just got took off? It was
even brought up in like postmatch interviews. What what made
what was the thought behind that decision? Well and everyone
(19:51):
scratching the head's going, I can't understand it. We had
what was it, Sailor on the low, Max on wit
Beyond and well Wells and and and then By you
could argue that he was he was on with Clark.
What's that five or six players like they're all half backs.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And it's mad because in his in his first two runs,
Clark had run more than By and Party put together.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Forward by him. By honestly.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Didn't have it done the way it was with Betterson.
After half an hour.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, I just think it was disgusting. And you know,
I think it's been alluded to. You know, Wellens has
said he you know, lives and dies by his decisions which.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
He does, and by by by those decisions and those results,
he should have been dead a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
But but how does that make you know, we're on
about team morale and everything, how does that make the
team feel? You know, if you've got players that who
aren't doing much wrong. And I said before Benson is
not the quickest and I know he gets criticized a
lot for that, but he's a good squad player. I'd
have him in that in, you know, in our thirty
man squad for instance, because he's one of them players
(21:12):
you're bringing and he'd never lets you down.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
In an ideal world that we wouldn't play with it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
No, he's not your first he's not your first choice.
He's not your first choice, but he can fill in
it fall back.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I think the Johnny move was he was I think
he was. I think he sort of was a feared
and knew that Sailor can't do that Joe, and I
think Johnny was a fallback that if Sailor makes a
mess of it again, he'll put him out off wing
and bring Johnny on, which is what he did. I
don't think it was the right thing to do. He
shouldn't he should just have started. I think going forward
(21:43):
we'll see Jack back at full back. Definitely Whitby. I
personally would play Johnny next to him, but he might
play sailor next to him. But he's on last he
must be in last chance to loon him.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Now talking about he can't be here for the two years,
well then.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That you can't. Business doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What business doesn't work like that? But what professional sport works.
We're getting the best out of your players and your
coach getting the best out of players together.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I don't think this lad is the deal at all.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Well, we said we said it on the last last podcasting.
We like the likes of Ben Barber, Bev and French,
all these players who come over. They don't don't really
hit the ground running, and you know, you've got to
give them that time to to see what they can do.
You know, bloody hell, We've give half of the team
that are playing now enough time and they still they're
(22:36):
still not doing it. Now, so I will. I'm in
the you know, the the court of give him time
and and let's see what you can do for me.
Johnny Lomax is coming to the end, so you know,
do we do, we play Johnny Romax, put Sailor on
in the stands, and then Johnny's going to retire next year.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I wouldn't play now, move on him completely.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
I think we've got to move forward. We have to
move forward because we're going backwards as it is, so
we've got to We've got to have a pair in
the for me of sale and Whitby. I mean, that's
what we've got to run with.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
The harsh argument here is that we're going backwards. But
because we've given a long contract to players, we shouldn't
have given a long contracts. Yeah, I mean, and that's
the twelve horrible.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What's that about?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's another one. I wasn't thinking of him.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, another year after this one shift.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I mean, you can justify ones, I think, I think,
but I don't think he's the starting prop now. I
think he comes on and he starts.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I think he did the weekend he didn't start, and
did he put him on the bench, which was an
interesting move started PARSI. You wouldn't think I was a
starting properly because hells.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And again there's not there's another possibilities and I think
matter Leans is not physically big enough to play proper. Now,
I think he's I think.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Any yards never has for me.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
It's harsh, harsh core. But he's a great he's a
great defender, he's got a great engine, and I think
looking at the way second roads are these days, I
think he's he's more suited to that physique of a
second Possibly.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I do like my leaves and I do like him.
But I get what you're saying is, but how many
props have we got the making roads? There's only really
warms like because.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Evens.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
But we don't see him playing. We don't get we
don't see him play, So you know, he.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Could be he could be the next James Green for
get a chance to play it.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
At the moment, it's all on Warms and and he's
going a bit over there, and he he's still his
numbers are still pretty good. But he's thirty five now,
so it's not gonna last forever. This could be his last.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I mean we are we are the victims of our
own success because we give him these big, long contracts.
To players who were at the top of their game
three years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
They don't give a contract Markings said.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Good good point, good points, and it's.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Not it's it's bad lot. But he's out injured for
whatever it's been three months and the brown stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
It's a tough sport. It's a tough sport boat, I think.
And it's I'm not hanging this hat on Wellens. I
think that the problems have arisen from three years ago,
from the last from the last win.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I think he has to take a lot of responsibility,
though tactically I'm not.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'm for the squad he's got, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The team and the players when you look at the
team sheet now, the bottom line is they're not as
good as other players and other players other teams team
sheets and you see them when you think that seems
better than nose, that seems better than even you think
that seems probably better than isn't isn't that?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Isn't that a form thing? I think it's I think
our first seventeen if they're fitting in form, I guess
anybody behind it. If the tactics arrived, obviously, well I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Okay, hello again, do you know what we've been We've
been knocking on the door on a lot of these
games where there's been certain things were we've just not
got it right, or we've just not done this, or
there's a bloody referee call or whatever it is. And
there's been times in the past. I'm going back eighteen
months where we should have won some of these games
and we should have won a man's down. So for me,
(26:22):
I think we've got a decent team. We all sat
here at the start of the season. We've probably predicted
us finishing about fourth and you know, we'd be happy,
we'd be happy with fourth position. For me, I think
we're still there thereabouts with we should be finishing about fourth.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Season.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, So for me, we're now not where we need
to be because we're probably were We're eight, really, aren't
we You apart from our.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
We be worse if we lose the next one, well a.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Part from our points difference, which we've got against Salford,
we would be probably eighth.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And that been building by other teams now.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And that's been really Yeah, Warrington should be above us
because you know they've been beat Thrashu just twice, but
it's just because they can't beat anyone else at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
He's doing worse than us because they beat us all
the time and nobody else.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But I've gone back to the original point. Let's just
look Wellsby fit fighting Wellsby. He's number one. Yep, you can't.
You can't argue with a fitting, a fitting well kle
felt top try scorer. You can't argue with Harry Robertson being.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
At three or is it cross now?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, we can. Don't make me angry, but I.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Think you're gonna find the player for Robertson.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And yeah, you can't argue with first year first yet four.
And you can't argue with Louise Murphy, and I argue
with that sailor. Question marks. We've all got question marks,
different ones.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Whitby got to get the experience.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I don't know if it's ready yet.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
He's not. He's not ready to take the burden of
carrying the team exactly, but.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
He wouldn't need to do if you have the full
team out.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
If you're playing them for experience, then you have that.
I think then you have to lower your expectations accordingly. Yes, okay,
you can't put him in there and say right, you're
will beat the superstar back now, But.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think that's I think people are looking at him
to be that. But he's not. You're going to have
to be twenty five before a year or start. We
had this with Dog, didn't we Yeah, we did when
he got injured, didn't he a right? So in half backs,
the backs are okay or first choice for you if
you can.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Get him fits and then you've got I mean Cross
is a great one him. Yeah, you know, if you
can't get a game.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
But now if you come if you're coming back to
this argument, you're going back to the pack Warmsley fitt
and firing, Yes, I'd have him starting, Yeah, Daryl Clark, yeah,
fitting firing, match Lee's fits and firing. Yet Curtis sing
and fits and firing, Yeah, to.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Be for he's been.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
At the moment, yeah, not playing badly and Morgan knows.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So the first thirteen all fitting, firing, And I'm coming
back to this old argument. You'd be happy with that
side playing against Wigan or Okyr at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Probably against those teams would but they can.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Complete playing wigging?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Would you would?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
But would? I expected to not know?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
But why are we not competing now? With losing to
Leeds getting beat three times by Warrington?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I think we're just to to in the in the
back when you're turning up with Sambur and Benetton on
that right and side with a kicker like Sneed. Yeah,
they don't have to put you under tremendous pressure. And
so I mean on boardline optimistic here if we can
get might be back for the Catalan game. Well, good
(29:59):
plugs are huge, huge hole. I mean we should have
recruiter center. Let's get it right.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Absolutely, yeah, got eighteen months ago six six in the
in the off season.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yes, yeah, And he wouldn't be your ideal choice?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Would he would be first?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
We've been lucky that person next year? Why don't we
going to snatch that?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Pots from Wakefield? He's the next big one player?
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Is he?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
He'll do? We all knew about Wardle. We were on
our show. We talked about the week in week week
and he ends up at wigging.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
And went on freeze didn't exactly?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
So that you know that's bad management forever. Recruitment.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, fundamental problem is the recruitment.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
But are we defending Wellens on that basis? Is the
whole separate side of the.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Training rubbery buzzword mitigation? Didn't he.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I find when you give the on town coach the
main role. They never seem to financially back slate the Australian.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I can't think and that's not me. Somebody probably time
me straight away now. But I can't think of a
hometown coach has gone into a club after being a
great player and made us success a coach. Can we
think of any we might be think of?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And you're taking a great player. But Sean Wayne did
a good job at WI.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Him Dougie Lawton maybe going back that far. I can't
think him any more, can you?
Speaker 5 (31:26):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Radford did a decent job for a spell, but then.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But he wasn't the star player, was he?
Speaker 4 (31:36):
No? But I mean aim and we've alluded to it before.
Raymond's come out and said we are going to spend
the full cap next season for twenty twenty six. Well
we're not. We're not doing it now. So it's like, well,
questions have got to be asked as to well, why
aren't we spending the.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Cup fall cap this year the club of last spending
the cap?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Well you, so is it that we're losing so much money?
Because yes we are, because the finances have come out
button so is every other rugby league team.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
But they're off the moment he's going to lose.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
That's the danger. The danger of our club is the
downward spiral. And if we can mate at six to
seventh eight at the end of this season, probably don't.
If we don't make the playoffs, then that season ticket
is going to drop dramatically.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's fifty to fifty when we went in the playoffs
this year.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Now, I think you're probably right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, yeah, in the season ticket numbers will plumbing.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Something drastically needs to change for us to turn that round.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I'm going to throw a players to make a big difference, hopefully,
you know. Felt probably about three weeks away. I think
he's fit an the young Agno, he might.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Make a little bit of spanner in the works. Yeah,
for the season, because I look back on on the
contracts and whatever, and well, well, it was an extension
for this year, and he's too assistants have two year deals,
So I'm pretty sure that well isn't going to get
mutually consented or booted or whatever, whatever the expression you
(33:09):
want to use. I think he's in for the season,
and I think there's somebody else coming in next year
because I do suspect that it had well out been
given an extension of was staying. It had been done
by now and we know about it by now, and
I think the rumor of him going to Australia, I
think may may still be in the background and I
think some people will come over, but I don't think.
I don't see the way the club run that they
(33:31):
will chuck him out. I think he's here for the duration.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Well, I mean there's contracts, which is what next year,
this year, just this year.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I think I think it would be very difficult for
the club at any point this season, apart from when
we beat was at East All or West All, which
everyone it was for them to come out afterwards and
say well I was ad an extension on his contracts
because I think they'll be absolutely uproll.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, I agree. It could not announce that now because
it couldn't.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I don't know when when will be the right time, and.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I will be right absolutely new today.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Listen, at the end of the day, we all know
what's gone on in the past. We could two with
with some of our fans and I'm probably sorry jumping
the gun air grain with with the next point, but.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
No, feel free. I don't want to. I don't want
to discuss anymore about the game.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
I want to bring up Murphy. We've got to.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Discussis yeah, it wasn't the list.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, yet another one that went against us. That it
was a shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Well, even the Sky commentator said it was the wrong decision.
So must mean that probably saying jumped.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
To I chedule.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I was incredibly impressed of how I was. I mean,
if that ball would have the fact that he'd gone
six foot past the ball, it's a different matter. But
if that ball was coming where he.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Wasn't nobody.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Didn't jump the edge of the do but at all,
And that's why his legs level with his head because
he stood up.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was incredibly harsh, It was disgraceful, but
I don't think it would have made any difference.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
To cross try was debate that nothing gives that to us,
and it took that so well crossed.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
You get that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
But there's absolutely absolutely no way on this world if
Ben Thayler is watching the same pictures as us that
that ball went forward.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
No, no, we don't. But it's but it's that thing
of try and no try that's got to be taken
away from from the referee on field. If he's sending
it up to the video referee, he's not sure, so
how can he make a decision when it's try or
no try.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
He's watching the same picture as we are.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
It's just got to go up and say I'm not
sure about this. Can you have a look?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Stand out definitely didn't go for me. It definitely went backwards.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And that was the That was the key. That was
a key part on another optimistic one. Took it ever
so well across to get round and get that ball down.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Cross crossed really well. But I would argue when we
played against Warrington and Perceval went in and no one
could see that ball touch that touch that ground and
the referee on field give a try when when you
look at that, you've got well we've got a call there,
We've not got a call there.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
So that bloody Matty Ashton, No I get that. I
think that's for one.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Called more try by the ref. It doesn't get given, don't.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
I can't point it's that that that decision has got
to be taken away from the ref were by it's
it's inconclusive. He doesn't know send it up.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What do they do in the n r L because
that's slightly different, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's a similar, similar.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Process, but I think I think the bunker has more
of a say, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
The difference I have seen watching the games is the
referee will will give a try the blow the whistle
spot and it can still be able to turn after
that was here. Once he puts to the spot, it
can't be a review trying because the process it's likely
differentely ordered, which is a bit odd.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Ben Taylor does his best just to support the referee.
I've not seen him. I've not seen against watch and
Tom Grant is still watching the football on the other channel.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
The one I mentioned it was for me I forgot
it now. It was defense and I mentioned this last
few times I've been on. I mean, the Warrington tries
was just down to Samby. Weren't they too of them?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Was just just.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Individual the individual disastrous. Ever, I think all Carol's doing
a great job. You know, the Warrington game was probably
the exception, but he can't get I mean, when we
had a bit more of a consistent team, which we
haven't had for weeks now, I think if we could
get a consistent team back, I think Carol would show
(38:00):
that defense. So if you go back to the Okay
R game where they were all over us for the
first half an hour and they didn't score too much,
Elder out he scored once. Yeah, what's what I'm saying?
Defense really really good.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
He's got twenty points that game again, as dominant as
they were.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think if you could get Robertson back in the
two proper centers and you know, Murphy Cross whoever on.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
The wing, I think with Caro get into the tis.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah. And I think with all Carol, I think he's
doing a really, really good job. And I wouldn't count
the last few games because of who's been on the page.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It is difficult. And I think I think if you're
sitting there as the chairman in his office and he's
having this conversation, he's listening to this show and we've
gone from raging, raging Blue Murder to well, hang on
a minute, we've had we haven't had our first choice
thirty on the pitch at all this season, et cetera,
et cetera. He might just be calming the waters, and
(38:53):
maybe maybe he needs to come out and calm the waters.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But hasn't it become harder to deal with the injuries
because of bad recruitment over the last years.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, we used to have a very deep squad in
the the Wolf era and the whole Book era. We
don't seem to have that now. If somebody gets injured,
it's like Planet Stations and we're up.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I'm pretty sure that that's not the chairman's job.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
That I don't know whose job I don't know. I
don't know. Is that is that the CEO? Is that
the chairman? Is that the coach.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Job to go over? And you know, deals.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
The planning for the planning for next year should already
have been done basically mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
But you don't. So you'd hope so because I mean
there's rumors that the is that Paulo Well, that's what
I mean. It's like another a CA.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, because there's a few properly, he's not about the
n r L George Josh Josh Canber prop forward.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
So is his rumored to be apparently sat But again
he's you know, he's over the at least thirty odd,
you know. But that the problem this this Douglas apparently
straight swappers Douglas about that our team for me, But
that's all we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And there's a young center from your kind of rumor
about his name escapes me.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Oh yeah, there's a few shows ago. Yeah, I think
we'll have a conversation about that. Well, meanwhile, Warrington signs
need you know, Well, we're thinking about having a.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Conversation, having honest conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, I think the honest one amongst the group. Yeah,
we've deteriorated back to that, haven't we.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
So well, if we get on recruitment, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
It's not just one of the one of a couple of
talking points that we've not covered yet. Well, has been
a bit of a meltdown after the game. Saturdy didn't
go over to the fans, was upset about the abuse
of of wellow I didn't particularly pick up any abusive
well on the TV. Obviously I wasn't. I wasn't there
to watch it. But there's somebody to go out to
wash out from the stand.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
But he tried to approach you, according to the journalist
of the press conference having players as well, and he
said he doesn't answer it straight back. It away.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Storming. But but well, we definitely didn't go over to
the fans because the tongue. I think that's a bit
of a problem starting to show.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
I think when when I watched on TV, Wellons at
the end of the game was coming down the steps
and he did hold himself back and I think bree
is and no Carol raps in front of him, and
all you saw Wellons do was like wave his arm
to somebody, like as if to say go away. But
(41:52):
but you couldn't see anybody else in the frame. It
was just then three. So whether's something yeah, probably yeah,
well yeah, Whether whether something happened there, I'm not sure,
but obviously we didn't see wellsby. I mean, for me, listen,
Carl Eastman got absolutely slated when he when he two
(42:13):
fees up to the fans at the end of the day.
For me, fans are going, they're paying the money. Everybody
wants the team to win. Everybody wants the team to
do well, whether we lose, win or draw. As a player,
you've got to just go over and say thank you
for your support. Whether you get stick or not. It's
like it's for me, it's it's toys out the pram
(42:34):
sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
But you take you take the PA and you take
the backs don't you.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Yeah, And and I love Jack Wellsby to bits, but
he for me, he toys out the prem there and
he's got to go over to the fans and say
thank you very much, whether he agrees with it or not,
because ultimately it's only a small section of fans are
actually giving.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Abuse because there is probably a line somewhere between criticism.
Would you write, is fair enough our abuse?
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Abuse?
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Said I think the reference was to abuse, but I
don't see how Jack could have heard it if he
was on the pit.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Criticisms healthy You don't want to be good happy.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Clappers, the thing that everything's going.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
On the best team that will when they're finishing last
or whatever. It's just like some crazy people just can't
see any you know, downside at all. But there's a
happy medium, but healthy think I think.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
They're from the club's point of view, from a pr
point to be it would it would be good to
hear from something from the German well, just to calm
the waters, as it were.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
What I do know is that and it's I think
it's been you know, put out there on several social
media platforms that it's a lot of his family and
I know I know certainly you know one of them,
about two of them very well. You know who one
of our speaks on daily basis, and I know he
(43:52):
has been getting a lot of stick and he goes
to every game and he's in obviously massive Saints fan,
the club to do well, and he at the end
of the day is going out for a paint and
he's getting stick off our fans and it's nothing to
do with him. He doesn't do the team selection. He
is just going as a fan and at the end
(44:12):
of the day, for me, that is out of order.
And that's where our fans then, or you know, a
minority of fans across the line.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's one hundred percent out of order. But isn't it.
Haven't we been here before with calling them yeah, all
this and knowing what is wrong and the level of toxicity.
Toxicity comes quicker with one of your own than it
does with the guy from.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Attempted to trash and now even now is not seen
by many as you know that he was when they
were retired from playing. It's just viewed differently because of
that bad stint he had. For me, they're two separate.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Things, absolutely, but for a lot a lot of these
fans now, the newer fans have only have only known success.
They're not like me and and older fans who who've
been have been understood on the stood on the road
(45:13):
and bleak BBC to Rugby League with about me and
win everything and me and the bloke with his sheep
dog as.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
The only professional club.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Different rules doesn't count, doesn't count, They don't count.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
But you said there's people now who only success success
and sports is cyclical, so we just have to.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
But I think it would be so helpful if provided
my kids that all the time keep reminding of just
exactly who Paul Wellings is, you know what I mean,
and what he's done for this club. That can't be
It's unprecedented, really even keeping because Paul Wellings used put
his facing way position.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
We actually did a show on this god just when
he was a pointed thinking and we kind of shook
our heads and thinking this is this only goes one way,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I didn't want him to be appointed.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I have to say, I think he's a great number
two because he kept him as a number two at
the time. I thought it was worth got worth the goal,
did you?
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Yeah? Definitely, because I think he was worth a goal, definitely,
and he could have been great, and I just don't.
I think he's been incredibly unlucky, still unlucky ever since
he came back from Australia and we won the World Cup,
World Club and I don't think he's been back well.
In terms of recruitment, well, well, if we.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Go through the first the first third team, you might
have been. But I think the only thing I think
of is if any even with the players, not, if
we're going to fully fit squad, is the center position
we have not. We haven't had enough cover there.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I don't think than that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Well in the market, I think is unbelievable. Are they
reacting the market?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
They've got better accountants than they clearly have.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
But incomes Bateman for the last eight games, incomes Aging
Morley for them, we've never done anything even even Wiggan
Andrew Bloody Jones.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
Wiggans just signed, you know, rugby union winger and you think, well, Wigan,
where is he going to fit into that?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Bet he doesn't play and it was possibly yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
But you know who knows. But going back to Wellens,
I mean, yeah, he's been he has been unlucky with
with some things that have gone in his time at
the club. But I can't condone any fans, you know,
to the level of given him abuse, giving his family abuse.
It's just absolutely disgusting. At the end of the day.
You know, he more than anybody wants the team to
(47:44):
do well, and I'm sure he's doing everything he possibly
can to turn that round for himself and the team
and the club. But ultimately, you know, sport, you know,
sport absolutely isn't it. Yeah, you know, John Wilkin referred
to it. You know, it's it's hard. It's it's a
hard line and all those here as fans sit here
(48:07):
and we were not happy with what we see. So
something somebody has got to be a blame.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It may be that this decline was inevitable anyway and
has just been given the hospital paths. It was being
in the wrong place at the wrong time. I did
think that he is getting now his escape goot for
the whole, but it's gone wrong. I think it could
be doing a lot better, but I'm not surprised that
we're not three years ago.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I think that I think that there are so we
say style mistakes and the way we play because I
think I think when he first came in for the
first eighteen months two years and that the wolfboard lighter,
whatever he carried on doing was never going to work,
because I think even Wolf realized that was that was
as far as he's gone with it.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
I started to worry at Warrington and based in the
second after suddenly on the last tackle George w we
were doing a bomb every time. I thought, oh my god, much, Yeah,
tell me they're not coaching the life out of him
as well, because Dodd was so creative when he first
came in, and they just took all that out of him,
(49:10):
setting his kicks in and and and then and then
sure enough, like when I'm watching Whitby put the bomb
up on the last tackle every time, I thought, oh
not him, to please let this lad play. That's the
other side of it is.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
It's, well, what's going to say we bought bresh, But
what you don't want to happen is throwing throwing wild
passes out of trying to offloading you don't know, you
don't ten meters.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
And we've seen we've seen slight changes and with this
this season of our attack being better at times, yeah,
and short spells, but we we can't attack anything when
our parks not making any bloody meters because our pack
is not doing it. So whether that's Wellens or Carrol,
whoever it is, I'm not really bothered. But our forwards
(49:56):
needs to bloody go forward and then hopefully our backs
and do something off it. But it's I don't know.
I don't know whether Wellings will see out the season
or not. Graying I find the pressures building and building
and building.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
At the moment, it's all over every day and from
Panthers number two, Ben.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Gardener, yeah, I think I think, well, I think it's
I think he'll see it out. And I think if
the plan is gardening year next year, because what you
don't want to do is come in as a caretaker
and take over this. You want a pre season and
you want to sort.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Some perfect work all rookie, we will.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
We'll be dead lucky there.
Speaker 5 (50:37):
What what you do?
Speaker 4 (50:38):
What you do do when you bring somebody in a
halfway through the season. Players wake up, Players wake up.
And I always remember it was a classic of I
think it was Karl am Or didn't He used to
take his kids to school every morning, used to turn
up with Under Cunningham and he was like an hour
late for training and old Book came and said, you're
not doing that. And if you remember, Amo was sat
on the bench for a lot of the time for
(50:59):
the couple of matches until he changed it. Until he
changed it, I went for on his fans for him,
and that was brought up. But you know, maybe I'm
absolutely talking a load of tripe there, but that that's
that's one story that certainly sticks in the head. But
you know certainly that they've they've got the foot in
the to them bill for next season because he is
(51:20):
now is if Wellens is not staying and he's not extending,
where are we going as a club? Because whether that's
the from you know Aim, the man is down to
rush down to Wellens, whoever it is. We just seemed
to be stuck in a rock.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I think we're tired. We got into it, we got
into we need some might.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Be good it before though none of us knew who
Harbrook was before he came correct and he came in
and transformed the whole.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
He was gone in two years.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, that's the hazard. That's the hazard. Success gorgeous, The
pretty much come here to make the name for themselves.
And then and get.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Enough to get a job. Then that's done done well.
Speaker 4 (52:12):
Like apart from probably you know Wellens's family and some
of the squad that are on the you know team
sheet every week, I don't think there's there's one person
in saying Tellings who thinks well and so at this
present time is keeping his job next year?
Speaker 1 (52:29):
I don't think. I don't think he wants it next year.
I think he's got something lined up. He has possibly,
but that's you know, it hasn't do enough to get
a new contract for sure.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
So so what So what do you do as a club?
Do you say, right, we're going to cut our losses
now because the pressure is building, Let's not keep him on.
Let's not put Wellens under that pressure. Because the silence
for me from the club has been astonishing this season.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Well that's all the point I was making. We need,
we need Aiming to come out and tell us all
what's happening.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
The only thing he has said is not spend a
full salary cap. So is that letting Wellings down? It's
that that's the only thing I've heard this season. So
is that is that letting Wellans down? That will actually
Wellens you've not had a full solid cap. What what
coaching superle can be at the top of the game
if you're not at a full salary cap. If I
don't know, it's not going.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
To full not go a full deck.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
And then it's it's hard because we all love Wells
a bit and it is an absolute club legend. And
it's horrible.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Because it wasn't unpredictable, was it. Unfortunately? There we are,
But there we are. Let's move on. Next two games.
How do we feel the gas? The optimistic gas Tinsley?
Speaker 3 (53:39):
Which is next?
Speaker 2 (53:40):
A couple of coup A couple of easy wins cat.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
And giants who suddenly just picked up to play some rugby.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
That's two wins for us. If we can get people
back Aaddie Robertson plays a different ball game. It is
you know, we got We just need that. It's not
gonna be Connie is he. Let's face it, but we
just need that. We'll get Alie Robertson back and cross off.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Catalans will be coming here on the back of a
big Cup semi final as well.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
No, we should beat Catalan I can't remember they playing.
It was bloody tight.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Last to lose that and then if they do that's
emotionally training, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, fanciers to win that as well. Field. I watched
the day. Yeah, but he got sent The guy got
sent off just before half time.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
Wasn't that wasn't not a shock at that?
Speaker 3 (54:35):
That was ridiculous idiots, But that young Flannagan is a
great player for field. But we should have too much.
We've got a young proper as well. I can't remember
his name. At eight he was really a fam times we.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Said we should have enough for this. Yeah, it's always
just about hand.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
But I forget to be by this field, then that
might be the end of the road. Well yeah, because
that's their first win of the season and the only
one because the old guy got sent off just on
bang and being an absolute idiot bang on half time.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Well, I think I think we should beat Catalan after
they've had a tough semi final. We've had a week
off and then I think we should beat the Giants.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Thought, yeah, I think I think we'll beat Catalan having
a week off and getting somebodies back, hopefully he'll do us.
But listen, if if we don't beat Catalan at home,
I think I think there'll be a lot a week off.
I think there'll be a lot of pressure there in
the stadium. I think there'll be a lot of booze.
I think there'll be a lot of disgruntled fans, you know,
(55:39):
and you never know, potentially potentially toxic atmosphere there if
we don't and when we need to come out firing,
because what the team can't afford to do is let
the fans get on the back because of some daft
knock ons or not playing the ball right when you
you know you've just been tackled, and all that daft stuff.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
There's a lot of that handling, a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
But again come back to that, well it's not well
ands dropping the ball and knocking on and you know,
throwing out mad passes. You know, So he's not responsible
everything for everything, most of it, but not everything.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
The book stops with him, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
Jack's got to go back to full back, he has to.
If he doesn't do that, then I think that.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
We could beat Catlan with the team that played against
Leeds or that's the show.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
They've got some big units and some good players cattle,
especially with.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
That muddle thinking about the arf Backs.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Playing sorry, rat boy.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Well they've got a good plan at the back.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
That only he was fantastic. You see that dry through
half the team.
Speaker 4 (56:52):
And Tommy making making.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Stadium.
Speaker 4 (56:56):
I'll be crying.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Oh dear, we have.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
By missed Tommy and we've also badly missed the only I.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
Think we missed Tommy more because Carl Felts got injured.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Yured he was solid, He was solid, and he took
the hide and to.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
That beautiful climb. It hasn't got injured this year. Yeah,
tom we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
She stirred in purple and Tomkins weren't playing. Tompkins was
the sky the treats didn't Okay, all.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Right, well, thanks lads, we'll we'll we'll see you again
in a couple of weeks. In fact, after these two games.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
That should be a good one there it was two
wins in well.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
We might have we we might be more, we might
be happier and more.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Would be good.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
If you do that.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Yeah, I think I might struggle to get a team together.
All right, Thanks Darren, no problem, cheers, thanks to you,
and I will enjoy your bully because we do really.
That doesn't sound like it, but we do really
Hello, and welcome to that Saints podcast recording after Magic
Weekend and all the joys that that brought. First of all,
for the a new thing for the pod, We're going
to start with an apology. This is going to sound
exactly like the last four shows with the miserable, miserable,
whining Drost conference. Yes, it's going to be mildly better
(00:30):
than the Paul Carriage press conference. Yes. So who we
got with us tonight? Rotation in place? Tonight Gas Tills
his back, Hello, Gas, are you doing evening? Good? And
Darren Rigby's back with us to good evening and to
make sense of it all stay up returns.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I'm not sure I can guarantee that, but good to
be a good evening.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well we're to start. I mean the last, last, last show,
we had an hour and a half about Wigan and
the Derby and poor we were, and I thought it
couldn't be any worse, and then we went to Warrington
and oh dear the Hollywood Jones on a Thursday night
for the For the basics, the facts are Whire thirty
two STS eighteen, a truly poor performance to the Hollywee
(01:12):
Jones against a wire team that was shown of George
Williams and after forty minutes they had no half match
because Mark Steed went off after some friendly fire. At
that point it was sixteen ten or sixteen fourteen I think,
and then it was it was looked like a game,
But after that we fell apart and finished thirty two
(01:33):
eighteen a second half where we only scored a late
try to put some consolation under loss. So let's let's
start with gaz because you went, didn't you what were
your thoughts on this?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And did go that the highlight of the match was
very definitely the seventy balloons before kickoff.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
I did appreciate that banner and the banner banner as well.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
The banner and the seventeen in golden balloons was turned
out to be the highlight of the visit. Yeah, just
shocked me to be I mean, I was. I was
very optimistic, as I'm gonna have to stop being really,
but I was very optimistic in the absence of Williams
as the key strike player, without doubt. And then at
(02:15):
halftime when we go in what I'm thinking, You're right,
I think it was only about two behind and they've
also lost Sneed and Danny Walker was going to six.
I said to my daughter, we're gonna win this one.
We're gonna win this one. And then the second half
we were just like staggeringly bad.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well he didn't start well either, did we No, no, no, But.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It was just I just couldn't I couldn't company full time.
I was like, I just couldn't get me ad around.
It was just walked off, not speaking, not saying anything,
just in shock. We just don't seem to be able
to beat what's seven and they're singing seven in a
row now and all this sort of it's no trophies,
just seven winter but you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Don't get a couple that.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But yeah, very very painful. I've been I'd probably been
at all seven of them, and it's getting harder every time.
And I genuinely thought we were going to win that one,
and I just thought it was a lack of almost
desire in the second half. Just didn't see it, didn't
see any fire, and it just just did that. That
(03:23):
did start me to start to think, you know, as
he lost the dressing room, because there was the effort
they put in that second half was pitiful.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, I did. I didn't personally think they knew what
to do even though Warrington were down to well. I
think they must have had nine forwards on the pitch
at one point, and we didn't actually move the ball
around very much time.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That pack of those isn't impressive, and they put one
of the most impressive members into standoff, you know, And
in some of the previous games we've we've probably won
the forward battle, but we certainly didn't that night.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I'm beginning to feel sorry for young George me now
because he's getting there and I meant to play behind
a beaten pack a lot.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah. So yeah, no, not great, Lad's not great at all.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Darren.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Your thoughts, Well, it was a bad week, wasn't it?
Because the reserves also lost forty eight twelve to Warrington,
So it wasn't It wasn't an ideal week, was it.
How many times we said that in the past, where
Warrington absolutely thrashing us all over the park. But I
thought Perceval was absolutely superb in this game. Yeah, he
(04:31):
was a spot, He was a bright spark and you know,
he probably saved us from getting an ass whopping. We
were discussing it before, but I think the the turning
point for me in the game, and not that we
were any good or not that we showed much about us.
Was when Matty Ashtroon tugged personal back, which it went
(04:56):
up for a no try, and I think if if
that would have been given, And what annoys me more
than anything was the players questioning the referee on that
and nothing was given.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
It was unbelievable day.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Everybody could see it when.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm watching the video back. He just didn't go back
far enough now and we all knew he was out
as soon as he finished that. Yeah, he's out of play.
It was a penalty try. Everybody around to say it's
a penalty try because Mattie as clearly pulled him back.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Officiating it, it was a bit of an elephant in
the room at the moment. We are on the wrong
end of some decisions, aren't.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
We use it the case? Isn't it when when you're
backed up against the wall nothing goes right it? But
you know after that, you know you're thinking, okay, we've
we've had a bit of bad luck there. And like
you said, the the effort like dufty, no think sorry,
Tye went through first and he almost crawled over the line,
(05:53):
and you've got players around him like Warmsy was there,
and he almost just like flopped on him. I mean
years gone by, we'd have players getting the rams under
the ball, making sure he doesn't get that ball down.
And then the next try from Dufty, he just ran
through our defense. And I know, I know Sambu got
(06:13):
absolutely crowd, you know, showed up if you like a
couple of times in that game, guys, is right, there's
just no there's no effort there. It's right, it isn't
It's just like, well that's another one gone. And it
was so demoralizing, and you know it's sad.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, I mean, defense is the thing, isn't it. Even
through you know, some of the bad performances of last year,
the defense largely held up. But in this game and
there those two misses by Samba one King I'm on
duty were like completely apologetic schoolboy stuff. Terrible. The weird
thing about it as well, as we competed better when
(06:56):
Steve was on the field than we did that after
half time, and it went off when they're running with
Ben Curry and and and Danny Walker in the alves,
both the players bought two things, one of the half
backs and two having them play alf back week in
the back as you mentioned, so we should with no
business losing by that score against the team with no
half backs. That's that's the kind of level we were
(07:19):
stupid to at that time.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
But that side of Samboo and Benison, you know, fried
to kick off again, I said to my mirror, so
they're gonna put everything down that so.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But they did and they got two tries in the
first he can't play again.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Well this swap simple was another dubious.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
One of the Matty Ashton tries. Matty Ashton kills us
every time we played Warrington and did it again in
this game. Seems to play one of us tries. It
was highly dubious. When there was a double knock on,
I thought between the Benison and uh was Toby King
and they were making the pass, but just gave a
knock on Aspenison and ruled that King had picked it
up cleanly, which I just I just couldn't find that one.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
The video actually said he knocks it into the Warrington
player who then goes and picks it up. So if
he's not too into and then he's picked it up,
he knocked it on.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So we got all looking with that one and the
call that you mentioned da but personal for the for
the would be penalty dry. So but having said that that,
we all agree we didn't deserve anything that game for
that second half performance. The defense was like terrible and
the attack as it's used were out of ideas and
(08:31):
hasn't got enough pace.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
The switching of the switching of Perceval obviously helped, didn't it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
But yeah, he brought us back into the game, and
and he was superb.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Shoulders the player there all the time on that side.
I mean he made the King look daft.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I have often said he's much better on the right
because he can't pass the left. Genuinely, he's a wonderful center,
but it's much better on the right. Clearly he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's a lot of the time he doesn't attempt to
pass the lead because I think he knows it's a
bit of a weakness, so he'd rather back himself in
a lot of situations.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
But years gone by, we've had Tommy Tommy making soon
on the other side, don't we. So you know you've
also had almost that covered, haven't you. And obviously i'd
love Tommy back right now, would be helpful but just something.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, we don't have a lot of pace, do we.
I think I think the key's pace off the mark.
And we'll come to that in the in in last
Saturday Nights game when we look at we look at that,
but we don't seem to have any pace.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
There's only a sailor who's got pace, and he's under
pressure because even he got run down by Ash Handley
and that in the Leeds game, which really surprised me.
I thought how quickly he would have gone, but he
ended up getting caught because I think he's just got
passed over a short distance rather than well.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
That's yeah, I mean that's just have seen Murphy.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yes, what I mean, he might be gone if he
breaks the line.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
We got start to play more than anything. He's not
getting the ball, and you know, we keep on, I
keep on forgetting. We actually felt who sues to come
back in and Robert Sam Robertson and you know, put
them to on that side. Then we're looking definitely.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Robertson, Felton, Cross or other wing. Yeah, then we're looking
cross of wing person and Robertson its centers and Murphy, and.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I think Cross is a better bet on the wing
than say Bennison.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, without doubt, and then you've still got felt to come.
So I think we have got to think about that
a bit. That we have been really unlucky with injuries
in the backs.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Well it goes that same.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, we're you know others Ava's and the furnace to
well as he was unlucky with injuries all last year
right till back in and we came with the late burst,
didn't we got that?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Well?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
I think I think one of the things are being
a good coaches, you've got to have some luck. And
if Wells didn't have bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck?
Would he Nocks with his injuries?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
To be fair to him, but especially in that part
of the team. There was one game where we were
playing with a bat line of Benison, Whitley, Synon and
Murphy and you wouldn't wear the championship with that bat line?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Bad? I did? I did? I did remember a point
where we had ten forwards on the pitch at one
point not so long ago. It might have been the
Wakefield game at home.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Why in one center and Bachelor and the other one.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah, and then we've switched it. Now we've got ten
halves on the pitch.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Right, So that's another stuff in the wire. Seven to
the wire. At the moment, God, it's going.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
To be good seven last seven, but if we go
back a bit further it worse and worse for them
the trophy. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
What was the atmosphere like, by the way, because the
music Warrington, we take the crowds will fill that end
and on TV I didn't go, but on TV it
looks empty.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
We haven't filled the crowd for about four or five visits.
I think we are an example of fickle fans. I
think all fans are fickled to before, but ours, ours
definitely are on that Warrington stand. I'm looking around about
twenty past seven, just shaking my head and went, wow,
(12:29):
you know I got I got my tickets the day before,
and I comfortably got them the day before. They still
have them fast. You wouldn't get them two weeks before.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
It was I think it's there's two things to that,
isn't There's the there's the third night effect at school
Mines and there we've played that and we're playing dismally
and we're playing that we've lost the last six against,
but we've played them three times if we were winning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It comes down to expectations, doesn't it. If you think
you're gonna win the game in a big crowd, if
you know you're going to get beat, then you'll see
quite a few drop off.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It is like that, isn't it. Wiggins no better example
than Wiggin agreed Darby Ox know they're going to win
if they thought they were going to lose. Half from
won't come. But it was bad.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But the Saints of filling stadiums away, then yeah, it
was poor, and it was poor.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Last time, and it was I can go back to
the sixteen nil last year and that was was. It's
been poor since then. But when we were four in
a row, you couldn't get a sicket, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
All right?
Speaker 3 (13:30):
That is where it is, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Unfortunately, turn our attention to Magic weekend. After watching Leaves
the week before, I thought we had an opportunity puting
things right, but it didn't turn out that way. That
the facts of the game. We'll lead trying to seventeenth
and Talians four. Saints with the solitary try from Matt
Whitley leads with two early tries from Lum and Miller
(13:52):
and a late try from Cannon, two golds from Miller,
and I dropped gold from Sinfield before the game team selection.
It looked decidedly odd to me. Bonkers, I would say
what he thinks a confused stronger words, it is a podcast,
(14:13):
so you can't You're allowed.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
To use tonight for that?
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Doesn't it putting the Johnny lobot on the bench and
then you finds having a situation where you have to
take your finger off and make him look silly.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
You think you knew tink he knows that Sailor can't
play full back well in which can't in which absolutely
he slipped for the military.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
There he was attacking.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
For me, it's either what Winger is in stand from
what I've since, I've had enough.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I disagree, but disagree.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Also, I think at and he's not paid with Whippy.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
If you give up on him now because he's been
brought in for his pays, if you give up on
him now, you're going back to what didn't work last year.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Correct agree with that Whitby and Johnny right now?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
There's no person now and then and what wells be
at fullback? Is there?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I think Sailor is.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I'd say you had to find a players with the
team somewhere that wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
The only one. I think he has to stay at sixteen.
Jack has to go back to one, and George has
to be give him the chance to form a partnership
with him.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
For me, I think that the John Benison whole situation
was absolutely disgusting for me. You know you're watching watching that,
and Benson was quite rightly, absolutely pissed off by being
taken off. You know, we all know John's not the
(15:36):
quickest person, but I tell you what he makes up
for in effort and he never he never lets you
down in in in what effort he puts in for
the scene where you know we've we've known in the past,
all the players just are not asked, you know. So
for me to he's if like his escapegoat, and to
have Johnny Lomax on the bench, knowing that at some
(15:58):
point he's going to come on. But to take Benison off,
for me, it's you need to remove I don't know,
someone like him by or even if it's sale the.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Other thing about it, by his bonkers.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I can I can understand trying to get Johnny on
the pitch, but why put him on the bench, you
know what I mean, Like like you said, don't put
him on the bench if you need if you want
to put Johnny on the pitch starting but Wellsby, you're right, Grahame.
He has to be fall back, no more faffing around
with He has to be fall back because for me,
when he went to fall back, he's a different person.
(16:36):
He's absolutely lighting the stuff happening. Not very quickly, but
you know, because that's just us at the moment, but
you could see a change.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I think.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I think the thing with Jack is he used to
be a standoff when he was a junior and an
academy and England Academy, and he was a superb standoff.
But he's played too long at fullback and he's played
too long at the top level as a fullback. You
can't just suddenly switch somebody to stand off in the
same way in an underperforming team, in the same way
(17:06):
you can stretch, you can just switch your stand off
to full back. And it doesn't make no sense to
me because I said before that we've not had a
settled half back pairing all season. For now, I think
that the halves must be whit being sailor For me,
with Jack back at full back. Hopefully we'll get some
bodies back and will be given a chance to form
(17:26):
a partnership with somebody because the poor lad's getting you're
getting battered now. He's trying to run the thing on
his own. He's taking the line on, he's trying to
do kicks when he's under pressure because there's no there's
no protection for him, and it's just a tricky situation
for certainly for for half back and team selection. But
the other, the other glaring thing for me was no Stephens,
no sign of him.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
No.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Well, that's the thing about putting all out to the bench.
Also weakens your plack options because he's taking up a space.
No Stevens. We got eight minutes against Wynston, I think it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Was, and it looked like the best proper we had.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, along with worms is the only prop we've got
that actually making yards regularly, and it's it's kind of destructive.
The rest of them gets stopped dead at the line
and then them all.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I mean, I can't remember which one it was, but
I think two with the pack I had three and
two yards respected.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Well, Steven's made more meters in eight minutes than two
props combined in fifty minutes and it you know that,
the sort of stats like that, You've got to look
at him and go, Stephen's not getting you know, even
a bench spotted start. It's so frustrated.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
When I was watching warm up at Warrington. He is
a always a big unit to anybody. He is a
proper big unit. Miles bigger than Delaney. Yeah, you know
he's but he's wider than Warmsley.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Wonder what he must be seeing something that.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Wingfield.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
I just think it's one of the thinks all I
think he might have expresssolutely. I think the only thing
I can think of is that Stevens has expressed some
discountlements and not getting more time, and he's upset somebody.
That's the only reason I think he's not playing.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
All I can say is a good job he signed
a long term deal because I think he'd be looking elsewhere.
And I'll tell you what, that would be one of
them players if he ever went elsewhere, We'll be going
why the hell didn't we sign him? You know, why
didn't we playing more? Why did we give him more
of an opportunity?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I suspect it is as with the benefit situation, it's
just easier to leave him out thy else Natty Lee's
or something like that. Not that suggestion, but as an example, I.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Know you you're right there because that's what I'm getting.
More and more, you're watching them in more and more decisions.
I mean, everybody on that magic weekend against Leeds, everybody
was going, has Benison just got took off? It was
even brought up in like postmatch interviews. What what made
what was the thought behind that decision? Well and everyone
(19:51):
scratching the head's going, I can't understand it. We had
what was it, Sailor on the low, Max on wit
Beyond and well Wells and and and then By you
could argue that he was he was on with Clark.
What's that five or six players like they're all half backs.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And it's mad because in his in his first two runs,
Clark had run more than By and Party put together.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Forward by him. By honestly.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Didn't have it done the way it was with Betterson.
After half an hour.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Yeah, I just think it was disgusting. And you know,
I think it's been alluded to. You know, Wellens has
said he you know, lives and dies by his decisions which.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
He does, and by by by those decisions and those results,
he should have been dead a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
But but how does that make you know, we're on
about team morale and everything, how does that make the
team feel? You know, if you've got players that who
aren't doing much wrong. And I said before Benson is
not the quickest and I know he gets criticized a
lot for that, but he's a good squad player. I'd
have him in that in, you know, in our thirty
man squad for instance, because he's one of them players
(21:12):
you're bringing and he'd never lets you down.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
In an ideal world that we wouldn't play with it.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
No, he's not your first he's not your first choice.
He's not your first choice, but he can fill in
it fall back.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I think the Johnny move was he was I think
he was. I think he sort of was a feared
and knew that Sailor can't do that Joe, and I
think Johnny was a fallback that if Sailor makes a
mess of it again, he'll put him out off wing
and bring Johnny on, which is what he did. I
don't think it was the right thing to do. He
shouldn't he should just have started. I think going forward
(21:43):
we'll see Jack back at full back. Definitely Whitby. I
personally would play Johnny next to him, but he might
play sailor next to him. But he's on last he
must be in last chance to loon him.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Now talking about he can't be here for the two years,
well then.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That you can't. Business doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
What business doesn't work like that? But what professional sport works.
We're getting the best out of your players and your
coach getting the best out of players together.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
I don't think this lad is the deal at all.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Well, we said we said it on the last last podcasting.
We like the likes of Ben Barber, Bev and French,
all these players who come over. They don't don't really
hit the ground running, and you know, you've got to
give them that time to to see what they can do.
You know, bloody hell, We've give half of the team
that are playing now enough time and they still they're
(22:36):
still not doing it. Now, so I will. I'm in
the you know, the the court of give him time
and and let's see what you can do for me.
Johnny Lomax is coming to the end, so you know,
do we do, we play Johnny Romax, put Sailor on
in the stands, and then Johnny's going to retire next year.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I wouldn't play now, move on him completely.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
I think we've got to move forward. We have to
move forward because we're going backwards as it is, so
we've got to We've got to have a pair in
the for me of sale and Whitby. I mean, that's
what we've got to run with.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
The harsh argument here is that we're going backwards. But
because we've given a long contract to players, we shouldn't
have given a long contracts. Yeah, I mean, and that's
the twelve horrible.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
What's that about?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's another one. I wasn't thinking of him.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, another year after this one shift.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I mean, you can justify ones, I think, I think,
but I don't think he's the starting prop now. I
think he comes on and he starts.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I think he did the weekend he didn't start, and
did he put him on the bench, which was an
interesting move started PARSI. You wouldn't think I was a
starting properly because hells.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And again there's not there's another possibilities and I think
matter Leans is not physically big enough to play proper. Now,
I think he's I think.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Any yards never has for me.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
It's harsh, harsh core. But he's a great he's a
great defender, he's got a great engine, and I think
looking at the way second roads are these days, I
think he's he's more suited to that physique of a
second Possibly.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I do like my leaves and I do like him.
But I get what you're saying is, but how many
props have we got the making roads? There's only really
warms like because.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Evens.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
But we don't see him playing. We don't get we
don't see him play, So you know, he.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Could be he could be the next James Green for
get a chance to play it.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
At the moment, it's all on Warms and and he's
going a bit over there, and he he's still his
numbers are still pretty good. But he's thirty five now,
so it's not gonna last forever. This could be his last.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I mean we are we are the victims of our
own success because we give him these big, long contracts.
To players who were at the top of their game
three years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
They don't give a contract Markings said.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Good good point, good points, and it's.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Not it's it's bad lot. But he's out injured for
whatever it's been three months and the brown stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
It's a tough sport. It's a tough sport boat, I think.
And it's I'm not hanging this hat on Wellens. I
think that the problems have arisen from three years ago,
from the last from the last win.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I think he has to take a lot of responsibility,
though tactically I'm not.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
I'm for the squad he's got, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
The team and the players when you look at the
team sheet now, the bottom line is they're not as
good as other players and other players other teams team
sheets and you see them when you think that seems
better than nose, that seems better than even you think
that seems probably better than isn't isn't that?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Isn't that a form thing? I think it's I think
our first seventeen if they're fitting in form, I guess
anybody behind it. If the tactics arrived, obviously, well I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Okay, hello again, do you know what we've been We've
been knocking on the door on a lot of these
games where there's been certain things were we've just not
got it right, or we've just not done this, or
there's a bloody referee call or whatever it is. And
there's been times in the past. I'm going back eighteen
months where we should have won some of these games
and we should have won a man's down. So for me,
(26:22):
I think we've got a decent team. We all sat
here at the start of the season. We've probably predicted
us finishing about fourth and you know, we'd be happy,
we'd be happy with fourth position. For me, I think
we're still there thereabouts with we should be finishing about fourth.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Season.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, So for me, we're now not where we need
to be because we're probably were We're eight, really, aren't
we You apart from our.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
We be worse if we lose the next one, well a.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Part from our points difference, which we've got against Salford,
we would be probably eighth.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
And that been building by other teams now.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And that's been really Yeah, Warrington should be above us
because you know they've been beat Thrashu just twice, but
it's just because they can't beat anyone else at the moment.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
He's doing worse than us because they beat us all
the time and nobody else.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But I've gone back to the original point. Let's just
look Wellsby fit fighting Wellsby. He's number one. Yep, you can't.
You can't argue with a fitting, a fitting well kle
felt top try scorer. You can't argue with Harry Robertson being.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
At three or is it cross now?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well, we can. Don't make me angry, but I.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Think you're gonna find the player for Robertson.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And yeah, you can't argue with first year first yet four.
And you can't argue with Louise Murphy, and I argue
with that sailor. Question marks. We've all got question marks,
different ones.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Whitby got to get the experience.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I don't know if it's ready yet.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
He's not. He's not ready to take the burden of
carrying the team exactly, but.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
He wouldn't need to do if you have the full
team out.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
If you're playing them for experience, then you have that.
I think then you have to lower your expectations accordingly. Yes, okay,
you can't put him in there and say right, you're
will beat the superstar back now, But.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
I think that's I think people are looking at him
to be that. But he's not. You're going to have
to be twenty five before a year or start. We
had this with Dog, didn't we Yeah, we did when
he got injured, didn't he a right? So in half backs,
the backs are okay or first choice for you if
you can.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Get him fits and then you've got I mean Cross
is a great one him. Yeah, you know, if you
can't get a game.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
But now if you come if you're coming back to
this argument, you're going back to the pack Warmsley fitt
and firing, Yes, I'd have him starting, Yeah, Daryl Clark, yeah,
fitting firing, match Lee's fits and firing. Yet Curtis sing
and fits and firing, Yeah, to.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Be for he's been.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
At the moment, yeah, not playing badly and Morgan knows.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So the first thirteen all fitting, firing, And I'm coming
back to this old argument. You'd be happy with that
side playing against Wigan or Okyr at the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Probably against those teams would but they can.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Complete playing wigging?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Would you would?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
But would? I expected to not know?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
But why are we not competing now? With losing to
Leeds getting beat three times by Warrington?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I think we're just to to in the in the
back when you're turning up with Sambur and Benetton on
that right and side with a kicker like Sneed. Yeah,
they don't have to put you under tremendous pressure. And
so I mean on boardline optimistic here if we can
get might be back for the Catalan game. Well, good
(29:59):
plugs are huge, huge hole. I mean we should have
recruiter center. Let's get it right.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Absolutely, yeah, got eighteen months ago six six in the
in the off season.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yes, yeah, And he wouldn't be your ideal choice?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Would he would be first?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
We've been lucky that person next year? Why don't we
going to snatch that?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Pots from Wakefield? He's the next big one player?
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Is he?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
He'll do? We all knew about Wardle. We were on
our show. We talked about the week in week week
and he ends up at wigging.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
And went on freeze didn't exactly?
Speaker 4 (30:38):
So that you know that's bad management forever. Recruitment.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, fundamental problem is the recruitment.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
But are we defending Wellens on that basis? Is the
whole separate side of the.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Training rubbery buzzword mitigation? Didn't he.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I find when you give the on town coach the
main role. They never seem to financially back slate the Australian.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I can't think and that's not me. Somebody probably time
me straight away now. But I can't think of a
hometown coach has gone into a club after being a
great player and made us success a coach. Can we
think of any we might be think of?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And you're taking a great player. But Sean Wayne did
a good job at WI.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Him Dougie Lawton maybe going back that far. I can't
think him any more, can you?
Speaker 5 (31:26):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:27):
Radford did a decent job for a spell, but then.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
But he wasn't the star player, was he?
Speaker 4 (31:36):
No? But I mean aim and we've alluded to it before.
Raymond's come out and said we are going to spend
the full cap next season for twenty twenty six. Well
we're not. We're not doing it now. So it's like, well,
questions have got to be asked as to well, why
aren't we spending the.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Cup fall cap this year the club of last spending
the cap?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Well you, so is it that we're losing so much money?
Because yes we are, because the finances have come out
button so is every other rugby league team.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
But they're off the moment he's going to lose.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
That's the danger. The danger of our club is the
downward spiral. And if we can mate at six to
seventh eight at the end of this season, probably don't.
If we don't make the playoffs, then that season ticket
is going to drop dramatically.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's fifty to fifty when we went in the playoffs
this year.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Now, I think you're probably right.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, yeah, in the season ticket numbers will plumbing.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
Something drastically needs to change for us to turn that round.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I'm going to throw a players to make a big difference, hopefully,
you know. Felt probably about three weeks away. I think
he's fit an the young Agno, he might.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Make a little bit of spanner in the works. Yeah,
for the season, because I look back on on the
contracts and whatever, and well, well, it was an extension
for this year, and he's too assistants have two year deals,
So I'm pretty sure that well isn't going to get
mutually consented or booted or whatever, whatever the expression you
(33:09):
want to use. I think he's in for the season,
and I think there's somebody else coming in next year
because I do suspect that it had well out been
given an extension of was staying. It had been done
by now and we know about it by now, and
I think the rumor of him going to Australia, I
think may may still be in the background and I
think some people will come over, but I don't think.
I don't see the way the club run that they
(33:31):
will chuck him out. I think he's here for the duration.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Well, I mean there's contracts, which is what next year,
this year, just this year.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
I think I think it would be very difficult for
the club at any point this season, apart from when
we beat was at East All or West All, which
everyone it was for them to come out afterwards and
say well I was ad an extension on his contracts
because I think they'll be absolutely uproll.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yeah, I agree. It could not announce that now because
it couldn't.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
I don't know when when will be the right time, and.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I will be right absolutely new today.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
Listen, at the end of the day, we all know
what's gone on in the past. We could two with
with some of our fans and I'm probably sorry jumping
the gun air grain with with the next point, but.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
No, feel free. I don't want to. I don't want
to discuss anymore about the game.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
I want to bring up Murphy. We've got to.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Discussis yeah, it wasn't the list.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Well, yet another one that went against us. That it
was a shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Well, even the Sky commentator said it was the wrong decision.
So must mean that probably saying jumped.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
To I chedule.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I was incredibly impressed of how I was. I mean,
if that ball would have the fact that he'd gone
six foot past the ball, it's a different matter. But
if that ball was coming where he.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Wasn't nobody.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Didn't jump the edge of the do but at all,
And that's why his legs level with his head because
he stood up.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was incredibly harsh, It was disgraceful, but
I don't think it would have made any difference.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
To cross try was debate that nothing gives that to us,
and it took that so well crossed.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
You get that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
But there's absolutely absolutely no way on this world if
Ben Thayler is watching the same pictures as us that
that ball went forward.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
No, no, we don't. But it's but it's that thing
of try and no try that's got to be taken
away from from the referee on field. If he's sending
it up to the video referee, he's not sure, so
how can he make a decision when it's try or
no try.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
He's watching the same picture as we are.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
It's just got to go up and say I'm not
sure about this. Can you have a look?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Stand out definitely didn't go for me. It definitely went backwards.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And that was the That was the key. That was
a key part on another optimistic one. Took it ever
so well across to get round and get that ball down.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Cross crossed really well. But I would argue when we
played against Warrington and Perceval went in and no one
could see that ball touch that touch that ground and
the referee on field give a try when when you
look at that, you've got well we've got a call there,
We've not got a call there.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
So that bloody Matty Ashton, No I get that. I
think that's for one.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Called more try by the ref. It doesn't get given, don't.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
I can't point it's that that that decision has got
to be taken away from the ref were by it's
it's inconclusive. He doesn't know send it up.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
What do they do in the n r L because
that's slightly different, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
It's a similar, similar.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Process, but I think I think the bunker has more
of a say, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Well.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
The difference I have seen watching the games is the
referee will will give a try the blow the whistle
spot and it can still be able to turn after
that was here. Once he puts to the spot, it
can't be a review trying because the process it's likely
differentely ordered, which is a bit odd.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Ben Taylor does his best just to support the referee.
I've not seen him. I've not seen against watch and
Tom Grant is still watching the football on the other channel.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
The one I mentioned it was for me I forgot
it now. It was defense and I mentioned this last
few times I've been on. I mean, the Warrington tries
was just down to Samby. Weren't they too of them?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Was just just.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Individual the individual disastrous. Ever, I think all Carol's doing
a great job. You know, the Warrington game was probably
the exception, but he can't get I mean, when we
had a bit more of a consistent team, which we
haven't had for weeks now, I think if we could
get a consistent team back, I think Carol would show
(38:00):
that defense. So if you go back to the Okay
R game where they were all over us for the
first half an hour and they didn't score too much,
Elder out he scored once. Yeah, what's what I'm saying?
Defense really really good.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
He's got twenty points that game again, as dominant as
they were.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
I think if you could get Robertson back in the
two proper centers and you know, Murphy Cross whoever on.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
The wing, I think with Caro get into the tis.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah. And I think with all Carol, I think he's
doing a really, really good job. And I wouldn't count
the last few games because of who's been on the page.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It is difficult. And I think I think if you're
sitting there as the chairman in his office and he's
having this conversation, he's listening to this show and we've
gone from raging, raging Blue Murder to well, hang on
a minute, we've had we haven't had our first choice
thirty on the pitch at all this season, et cetera,
et cetera. He might just be calming the waters, and
(38:53):
maybe maybe he needs to come out and calm the waters.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
But hasn't it become harder to deal with the injuries
because of bad recruitment over the last years.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, we used to have a very deep squad in
the the Wolf era and the whole Book era. We
don't seem to have that now. If somebody gets injured,
it's like Planet Stations and we're up.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
I'm pretty sure that that's not the chairman's job.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
That I don't know whose job I don't know. I
don't know. Is that is that the CEO? Is that
the chairman? Is that the coach.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Job to go over? And you know, deals.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
The planning for the planning for next year should already
have been done basically mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
But you don't. So you'd hope so because I mean
there's rumors that the is that Paulo Well, that's what
I mean. It's like another a CA.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, because there's a few properly, he's not about the
n r L George Josh Josh Canber prop forward.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
So is his rumored to be apparently sat But again
he's you know, he's over the at least thirty odd,
you know. But that the problem this this Douglas apparently
straight swappers Douglas about that our team for me, But
that's all we're hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
And there's a young center from your kind of rumor
about his name escapes me.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
Oh yeah, there's a few shows ago. Yeah, I think
we'll have a conversation about that. Well, meanwhile, Warrington signs
need you know, Well, we're thinking about having a.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Conversation, having honest conversation.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, I think the honest one amongst the group. Yeah,
we've deteriorated back to that, haven't we.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
So well, if we get on recruitment, it's not good.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
It's not just one of the one of a couple of
talking points that we've not covered yet. Well, has been
a bit of a meltdown after the game. Saturdy didn't
go over to the fans, was upset about the abuse
of of wellow I didn't particularly pick up any abusive
well on the TV. Obviously I wasn't. I wasn't there
to watch it. But there's somebody to go out to
wash out from the stand.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
But he tried to approach you, according to the journalist
of the press conference having players as well, and he
said he doesn't answer it straight back. It away.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Storming. But but well, we definitely didn't go over to
the fans because the tongue. I think that's a bit
of a problem starting to show.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
I think when when I watched on TV, Wellons at
the end of the game was coming down the steps
and he did hold himself back and I think bree
is and no Carol raps in front of him, and
all you saw Wellons do was like wave his arm
to somebody, like as if to say go away. But
(41:52):
but you couldn't see anybody else in the frame. It
was just then three. So whether's something yeah, probably yeah,
well yeah, Whether whether something happened there, I'm not sure,
but obviously we didn't see wellsby. I mean, for me, listen,
Carl Eastman got absolutely slated when he when he two
(42:13):
fees up to the fans at the end of the day.
For me, fans are going, they're paying the money. Everybody
wants the team to win. Everybody wants the team to
do well, whether we lose, win or draw. As a player,
you've got to just go over and say thank you
for your support. Whether you get stick or not. It's
like it's for me, it's it's toys out the pram
(42:34):
sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
But you take you take the PA and you take
the backs don't you.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
Yeah, And and I love Jack Wellsby to bits, but
he for me, he toys out the prem there and
he's got to go over to the fans and say
thank you very much, whether he agrees with it or not,
because ultimately it's only a small section of fans are
actually giving.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Abuse because there is probably a line somewhere between criticism.
Would you write, is fair enough our abuse?
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Abuse?
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Said I think the reference was to abuse, but I
don't see how Jack could have heard it if he
was on the pit.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Criticisms healthy You don't want to be good happy.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Clappers, the thing that everything's going.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
On the best team that will when they're finishing last
or whatever. It's just like some crazy people just can't
see any you know, downside at all. But there's a
happy medium, but healthy think I think.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
They're from the club's point of view, from a pr
point to be it would it would be good to
hear from something from the German well, just to calm
the waters, as it were.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
What I do know is that and it's I think
it's been you know, put out there on several social
media platforms that it's a lot of his family and
I know I know certainly you know one of them,
about two of them very well. You know who one
of our speaks on daily basis, and I know he
(43:52):
has been getting a lot of stick and he goes
to every game and he's in obviously massive Saints fan,
the club to do well, and he at the end
of the day is going out for a paint and
he's getting stick off our fans and it's nothing to
do with him. He doesn't do the team selection. He
is just going as a fan and at the end
(44:12):
of the day, for me, that is out of order.
And that's where our fans then, or you know, a
minority of fans across the line.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's one hundred percent out of order. But isn't it.
Haven't we been here before with calling them yeah, all
this and knowing what is wrong and the level of toxicity.
Toxicity comes quicker with one of your own than it
does with the guy from.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Attempted to trash and now even now is not seen
by many as you know that he was when they
were retired from playing. It's just viewed differently because of
that bad stint he had. For me, they're two separate.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Things, absolutely, but for a lot a lot of these
fans now, the newer fans have only have only known success.
They're not like me and and older fans who who've
been have been understood on the stood on the road
(45:13):
and bleak BBC to Rugby League with about me and
win everything and me and the bloke with his sheep
dog as.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
The only professional club.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Different rules doesn't count, doesn't count, They don't count.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
But you said there's people now who only success success
and sports is cyclical, so we just have to.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
But I think it would be so helpful if provided
my kids that all the time keep reminding of just
exactly who Paul Wellings is, you know what I mean,
and what he's done for this club. That can't be
It's unprecedented, really even keeping because Paul Wellings used put
his facing way position.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
We actually did a show on this god just when
he was a pointed thinking and we kind of shook
our heads and thinking this is this only goes one way,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I didn't want him to be appointed.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
I have to say, I think he's a great number
two because he kept him as a number two at
the time. I thought it was worth got worth the goal,
did you?
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Yeah? Definitely, because I think he was worth a goal, definitely,
and he could have been great, and I just don't.
I think he's been incredibly unlucky, still unlucky ever since
he came back from Australia and we won the World Cup,
World Club and I don't think he's been back well.
In terms of recruitment, well, well, if we.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Go through the first the first third team, you might
have been. But I think the only thing I think
of is if any even with the players, not, if
we're going to fully fit squad, is the center position
we have not. We haven't had enough cover there.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I don't think.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I don't think than that.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Well in the market, I think is unbelievable. Are they
reacting the market?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
They've got better accountants than they clearly have.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
But incomes Bateman for the last eight games, incomes Aging
Morley for them, we've never done anything even even Wiggan
Andrew Bloody Jones.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
Wiggans just signed, you know, rugby union winger and you think, well, Wigan,
where is he going to fit into that?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Bet he doesn't play and it was possibly yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
But you know who knows. But going back to Wellens,
I mean, yeah, he's been he has been unlucky with
with some things that have gone in his time at
the club. But I can't condone any fans, you know,
to the level of given him abuse, giving his family abuse.
It's just absolutely disgusting. At the end of the day.
You know, he more than anybody wants the team to
(47:44):
do well, and I'm sure he's doing everything he possibly
can to turn that round for himself and the team
and the club. But ultimately, you know, sport, you know,
sport absolutely isn't it. Yeah, you know, John Wilkin referred
to it. You know, it's it's hard. It's it's a
hard line and all those here as fans sit here
(48:07):
and we were not happy with what we see. So
something somebody has got to be a blame.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It may be that this decline was inevitable anyway and
has just been given the hospital paths. It was being
in the wrong place at the wrong time. I did
think that he is getting now his escape goot for
the whole, but it's gone wrong. I think it could
be doing a lot better, but I'm not surprised that
we're not three years ago.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I think that I think that there are so we
say style mistakes and the way we play because I
think I think when he first came in for the
first eighteen months two years and that the wolfboard lighter,
whatever he carried on doing was never going to work,
because I think even Wolf realized that was that was
as far as he's gone with it.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
I started to worry at Warrington and based in the
second after suddenly on the last tackle George w we
were doing a bomb every time. I thought, oh my god, much, Yeah,
tell me they're not coaching the life out of him
as well, because Dodd was so creative when he first
came in, and they just took all that out of him,
(49:10):
setting his kicks in and and and then and then
sure enough, like when I'm watching Whitby put the bomb
up on the last tackle every time, I thought, oh
not him, to please let this lad play. That's the
other side of it is.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
It's, well, what's going to say we bought bresh, But
what you don't want to happen is throwing throwing wild
passes out of trying to offloading you don't know, you
don't ten meters.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
And we've seen we've seen slight changes and with this
this season of our attack being better at times, yeah,
and short spells, but we we can't attack anything when
our parks not making any bloody meters because our pack
is not doing it. So whether that's Wellens or Carrol,
whoever it is, I'm not really bothered. But our forwards
(49:56):
needs to bloody go forward and then hopefully our backs
and do something off it. But it's I don't know.
I don't know whether Wellings will see out the season
or not. Graying I find the pressures building and building
and building.
Speaker 3 (50:10):
At the moment, it's all over every day and from
Panthers number two, Ben.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
Gardener, yeah, I think I think, well, I think it's
I think he'll see it out. And I think if
the plan is gardening year next year, because what you
don't want to do is come in as a caretaker
and take over this. You want a pre season and
you want to sort.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Some perfect work all rookie, we will.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
We'll be dead lucky there.
Speaker 5 (50:37):
What what you do?
Speaker 4 (50:38):
What you do do when you bring somebody in a
halfway through the season. Players wake up, Players wake up.
And I always remember it was a classic of I
think it was Karl am Or didn't He used to
take his kids to school every morning, used to turn
up with Under Cunningham and he was like an hour
late for training and old Book came and said, you're
not doing that. And if you remember, Amo was sat
on the bench for a lot of the time for
(50:59):
the couple of matches until he changed it. Until he
changed it, I went for on his fans for him,
and that was brought up. But you know, maybe I'm
absolutely talking a load of tripe there, but that that's
that's one story that certainly sticks in the head. But
you know certainly that they've they've got the foot in
the to them bill for next season because he is
(51:20):
now is if Wellens is not staying and he's not extending,
where are we going as a club? Because whether that's
the from you know Aim, the man is down to
rush down to Wellens, whoever it is. We just seemed
to be stuck in a rock.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I think we're tired. We got into it, we got
into we need some might.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Be good it before though none of us knew who
Harbrook was before he came correct and he came in
and transformed the whole.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
He was gone in two years.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, that's the hazard. That's the hazard. Success gorgeous, The
pretty much come here to make the name for themselves.
And then and get.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Enough to get a job. Then that's done done well.
Speaker 4 (52:12):
Like apart from probably you know Wellens's family and some
of the squad that are on the you know team
sheet every week, I don't think there's there's one person
in saying Tellings who thinks well and so at this
present time is keeping his job next year?
Speaker 1 (52:29):
I don't think. I don't think he wants it next year.
I think he's got something lined up. He has possibly,
but that's you know, it hasn't do enough to get
a new contract for sure.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
So so what So what do you do as a club?
Do you say, right, we're going to cut our losses
now because the pressure is building, Let's not keep him on.
Let's not put Wellens under that pressure. Because the silence
for me from the club has been astonishing this season.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Well that's all the point I was making. We need,
we need Aiming to come out and tell us all
what's happening.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
The only thing he has said is not spend a
full salary cap. So is that letting Wellings down? It's
that that's the only thing I've heard this season. So
is that is that letting Wellans down? That will actually
Wellens you've not had a full solid cap. What what
coaching superle can be at the top of the game
if you're not at a full salary cap. If I
don't know, it's not going.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
To full not go a full deck.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
And then it's it's hard because we all love Wells
a bit and it is an absolute club legend. And
it's horrible.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Because it wasn't unpredictable, was it. Unfortunately? There we are,
But there we are. Let's move on. Next two games.
How do we feel the gas? The optimistic gas Tinsley?
Speaker 3 (53:39):
Which is next?
Speaker 2 (53:40):
A couple of coup A couple of easy wins cat.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
And giants who suddenly just picked up to play some rugby.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
That's two wins for us. If we can get people
back Aaddie Robertson plays a different ball game. It is
you know, we got We just need that. It's not
gonna be Connie is he. Let's face it, but we
just need that. We'll get Alie Robertson back and cross off.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Catalans will be coming here on the back of a
big Cup semi final as well.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
No, we should beat Catalan I can't remember they playing.
It was bloody tight.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Last to lose that and then if they do that's
emotionally training, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, fanciers to win that as well. Field. I watched
the day. Yeah, but he got sent The guy got
sent off just before half time.
Speaker 1 (54:34):
Wasn't that wasn't not a shock at that?
Speaker 3 (54:35):
That was ridiculous idiots, But that young Flannagan is a
great player for field. But we should have too much.
We've got a young proper as well. I can't remember
his name. At eight he was really a fam times we.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Said we should have enough for this. Yeah, it's always
just about hand.
Speaker 3 (54:55):
But I forget to be by this field, then that
might be the end of the road. Well yeah, because
that's their first win of the season and the only
one because the old guy got sent off just on
bang and being an absolute idiot bang on half time.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Well, I think I think we should beat Catalan after
they've had a tough semi final. We've had a week
off and then I think we should beat the Giants.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Thought, yeah, I think I think we'll beat Catalan having
a week off and getting somebodies back, hopefully he'll do us.
But listen, if if we don't beat Catalan at home,
I think I think there'll be a lot a week off.
I think there'll be a lot of pressure there in
the stadium. I think there'll be a lot of booze.
I think there'll be a lot of disgruntled fans, you know,
(55:39):
and you never know, potentially potentially toxic atmosphere there if
we don't and when we need to come out firing,
because what the team can't afford to do is let
the fans get on the back because of some daft
knock ons or not playing the ball right when you
you know you've just been tackled, and all that daft stuff.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
There's a lot of that handling, a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
But again come back to that, well it's not well
ands dropping the ball and knocking on and you know,
throwing out mad passes. You know, So he's not responsible
everything for everything, most of it, but not everything.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
The book stops with him, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (56:20):
Jack's got to go back to full back, he has to.
If he doesn't do that, then I think that.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
We could beat Catlan with the team that played against
Leeds or that's the show.
Speaker 1 (56:32):
They've got some big units and some good players cattle,
especially with.
Speaker 2 (56:35):
That muddle thinking about the arf Backs.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
Playing sorry, rat boy.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Well they've got a good plan at the back.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
That only he was fantastic. You see that dry through
half the team.
Speaker 4 (56:52):
And Tommy making making.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Stadium.
Speaker 4 (56:56):
I'll be crying.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Oh dear, we have.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
By missed Tommy and we've also badly missed the only I.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
Think we missed Tommy more because Carl Felts got injured.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Yured he was solid, He was solid, and he took
the hide and to.
Speaker 3 (57:14):
That beautiful climb. It hasn't got injured this year. Yeah,
tom we didn't know.
Speaker 2 (57:24):
She stirred in purple and Tomkins weren't playing. Tompkins was
the sky the treats didn't Okay, all.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Right, well, thanks lads, we'll we'll we'll see you again
in a couple of weeks. In fact, after these two games.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
That should be a good one there it was two
wins in well.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
We might have we we might be more, we might
be happier and more.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
Would be good.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
If you do that.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Yeah, I think I might struggle to get a team together.
All right, Thanks Darren, no problem, cheers, thanks to you,
and I will enjoy your bully because we do really.
That doesn't sound like it, but we do really
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