June 13, 2023 • 31 mins
What's the number one reason for divorce? According to this famous pastor, it's "immaturity" and the lack of effort.
In this episode, Pye and Dr. Glen react to Pastor Rick Warren's painfully oversimplified, and frankly, irresponsible, take on divorce and discuss the factors that ACTUALLY contribute to the end of a marriage.
In this episode, Pye and Dr. Glen react to Pastor Rick Warren's painfully oversimplified, and frankly, irresponsible, take on divorce and discuss the factors that ACTUALLY contribute to the end of a marriage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Doctor Glenn. Yes, sir,there's a topic I very much want to
discuss, debate all of it.I want to break it down. The
idea that the number one cause fordivorce is immaturity or the lack of effort
going into relationship. I partially agreein the sense of how dare you?
I know? But immaturity. Ido feel like a lot of times people
(00:21):
are immature. And what I meanby immaturity is you're not doing your due
diligence to take ownership for the thingsthat you do in a relationship. Okay,
but like see, that's one ofmy exact issues is just how vague
this is, like immaturity. See, when you say immature, I think
of someone who's young. I thinkof an adolescent, someone who doesn't think,
(00:42):
you know, through their thoughts inamature manner. And yes, you
could say ownership is one of those, but ownership is much more direct like
ownership. Sure, somebody that doesn'ttake ownership is probably lacking maturity, but
that's not the If ownership is theissue. To say ownership, not immaturity,
I think they're interchangeable, right ownershipownership is a sign immaturity. Well,
(01:04):
I guess that's what we're getting into, because I would say they're not
interchangeable, and the immaturity in andof itself is not. Well, my
whole issue with this is it's it'ssuper vague effort. Is not the number
one reason. Neither is immaturity thenumber one reason that people are getting divorced.
I mean, you can say thatit's a factor, but to go
so deep as it say it's numberone, I agree with either it's not
(01:26):
the number one factor. I wouldsay that it plays a big part though
well, And I guess the overallproblem that I want to discuss is something
that you know, growing up withinMormonism, within a Christian upbringing, there's
a lot of aspects that I verymuch appreciated about that education in the sense
of, like I stopped practicing Ithink this is like seven years ago now,
when I was thirty five, right, There was a lot of aspects
(01:48):
of that that I appreciated, butbut a lot of aspects that I didn't.
What I appreciate it was there wasgenerally a sense of serving one another,
and it was you know, discussedquite a bit that they're supposed to
be a certain level of I say, equality, but it's like equality within
a system that was kind of stillvery patriarchal in general, but but that
both people were responsible and that tolove and to serve and to you know,
(02:13):
be christ Like and all. Ithink that that aspect was very positive.
But one thing that got constantly shared, and it's like as if it's
something that is so easy to buyinto, is the idea that most divorces
occur, that marriages fail, partnershipsfail because of effort. That's patently false.
And the other idea that that youknow, the marriages fail because of
(02:37):
immaturity. And so we have avideo that we're going to play because it
kind of summarizes this conversation um andhow it shared. I found this shared
so often though from the pulpit,and I don't understand why. I mean,
so you bring up so you bringup another point. Then so you're
saying like immaturity in relation to honoringa religious belief what a marriage should be,
(03:00):
and then people trying to live upand honor that and then being called
immature. I agree with you thereif that's if they're they're saying like this
is the end goal and you're justnot doing enough. You're not honoring what
God is telling you to do,or this is how it should be done,
and therefore grow up and you're nottrying hard enough. I agree with
you well in that lens. Idon't exactly know what lens they're speaking from.
(03:22):
Problem. Part of my issue withit is that it's just so vague
and generic. Right. Part ofthe issue is because it is just patently
false. But why don't we goahead and play and a sample of and
we're just picking one this is froma pastor Rick Warren from Saddleback Church,
will play kind of the argument ofwhat he's saying, because it's kind of
the same thing that's being repeated.The number one reason people gave for divorcing
(03:46):
was this pastor. We're just quoteincompatible. That was their reason. We're
just incompatible friends. There's no suchthing as patibility, Actually there is.
It's a term made up by wholebut we'll listen to justify divorce. We're
all incompatible because we're all different.Nobody's could be completely compatible with you because
(04:15):
nobody's exactly like you. So nomatter who you're with and who you're married,
you're going to be incompatible. Thetruth is you can get along with
anybody that you choose to get alongwith, and you can choose to love
anybody that you choose to love.Kind of, Now, if I were
to summarize thousands of hours of marriagecounseling in two words, this is going
(04:40):
to save you a lot of money. Here are the two words you need
to hear that will make your marriagea success. Grow up. Stop being
an irritating little immature. I won'tsay the word why not, pastor.
It's immaturity that causes marriage to die. It's not incompatibility. It's inflexibility.
(05:08):
I want what I want and Iwant it now, and you want what
you want, and neither of usare old enough, mature enough, smart
enough, spiritual enough to change.And I am willing to let this thing
die, then change, and you'rewilling to let this thing die, then
change. Has nothing to do withincompatibility. Okay, that's kind of the
gist of it. Um. Youknow, every every person that kind of
(05:30):
stands up on a on a pulpithas their own spin on it. But
the general gist is that it's effort, it's inflexibility, it's immaturity that is
the reason for divorce. Okay,So but this This gives a context because
this is a pastor and it's aChristian church, right, So if you
(05:53):
give it within that context, andLens being a grown up is praying to
God and honoring God, living Christianvalues, and then it's probably it's honoring
the man and the woman and theroles that need to be played. That
would be the definition of growing upbased on I think what he's trying to
say. Okay, so why don'twe go back through now and kind of
(06:15):
break down each of the different issuesthat I have with this And we're going
to rewind all the way back tobasically the opening where he's pulling his information
from. I find highly problematic.So at the beginning, you know,
when I used to do marriage counselingand I couldn't count the number of marriages
I help and destroyed to help.The number one reason people gave for divorcing
(06:40):
was this pastor, we're just quoteincompatible. That was their reason, we're
just incompatible. Okay, based onthis, so he says the number one
reason. And this stuff terrifies me, dude. It terrifies me that this
guy is a marriage counselor and hegives you know, relationship advice because I've
been to people like him, andI've seen how much damage they do and
(07:03):
how much they did personally in myown relationship. Because they look at everything
through a highly simplistic lens. Theydon't have enough understanding of what's going on.
And this is kind of the firstpoint that I would make here,
is like he's about to quote,like irreconcilable differences. The number one reason
that we get divorced is incompatibility.It's checked off most when you fill out
(07:27):
the application. Yeah, he mentionsin just a moment that it's on the
divorce form. Right. He saysthat this is a term that lawyers made
up. Okay, fine, it'sa term that lawyers made up. But
it's also one of very few checkboxeson a divorce form. It's not the
actual reason for divorce. It's justthe most convenient one to choose. It's
just the convenient one that you choosebecause you're not going to go into it.
(07:49):
The courts don't give a shit.Nobody cares about like why you are
getting divorced. Right, So youjust put that as a box. But
to use that as reference that thisis the number one reason people are getting
divorced shows me just how ill equippedhe is from an intellectual standpoint, from
a counseling standpoint, from everything,because he's giving advice from that lens.
(08:13):
Yeah. Once again, it's verysimplistic and it's not really backed by anything,
no other than just based on whathe's observing, saying that I see
this in the forms, and that'spretty much it. Yeah, there are
no academic studies, there's no evidencebased practice and practice studies. Nobody,
nobody talks about. Oh, thenumber one reason that people get divorced is
irreconcilable differences. No, you're pullingdata from a legal form and saying that
(08:35):
this is the reason that people aregetting divorced. And that tells me this
is just dumb, Like but you'reyou're you're delivering it with so much conviction
and confidence that people are buying it. And that's the thing that you know,
we've talked about so many times,Like, that's what scares me when
I watch people when they have theyhave a very close minded view and they're
(08:58):
so passionate about it and they seemnothing else. That to me is a
sign of ignorance. Yeah, Sothat's the first gigantic red flag that I
have and like in hearing this,and the other piece of this is,
you know, I think one ofthe reasons why this idea of incompatibility or
what he says is immaturity and notenough effort, right, The reason that
(09:22):
that sounds so appealing is because it'ssuch a simplistic solution to a very complex
problem. And so we go,oh man, well, if all I
gotta do is just put in moreeffort and just be more mature, I
can do that. Yeah. Itgives you, like, it gives you
a little bit of motivation like okay, but then once you're actually back in
the relationship again, okay, nowwhat yeah, right, there's no guidance,
(09:46):
so there's no tools. It's justa temporary like okay, and then
you're you're still lost, well,and it lets you feel like you have
a little bit of control over thisthing, when in reality, this isn't
what's happening at all. Dumping moreeffort into this or you know, I'm
gonna be less immature, it's nota solution. Okay, let's keep going
on the next line. Friends,There's no such thing as incompatibility. Okay,
(10:11):
stop, Actually, there is sucha thing as incompatibility. You can
have fundamentally differing core values. Thisis the entire focus of our research,
of the work that we do.This is incompatibility. Now, can two
people work through it, absolutely,But you can't take two people that have
opposing core values just set them downand be like, there's no such thing
(10:33):
as incompatibility. No, there actuallyis. If you value you know,
God and spirituality and religion, andI value wealth and power, those are
opposing core values. And we're notgoing to be compatible unless we specifically work
to understand each other's perspectives, unlesswe do very deliberate efforts in terms of
(10:58):
like understanding where both of us arecoming. But that is fundamentally misaligned.
No, I agree. And thenhis audience because they're speaking out of church.
The assumption is is that everyone hasthe same values because you're all there,
yes, which is not necessarily true, right like you, Like you
just said, maybe someone's looking forsomeone rich to marry and they're looking within
(11:18):
that community, that would be theircore value. Yes, God and spirituality,
because I really believe in what's takingplace. You put us together.
On the outside, it looks likewe have aligned values, but we really
don't. Yeah, and that's likeone of the biggest that's one of my
biggest issues with dating within religion.It's not that it's a bad thing,
it's that you're looking at the wrongstuff. So let's again go back to
(11:39):
this and say that we both meetat church, right, and let's give
a maybe an example of like well, wealth and power, Like there's not
that many people that maybe have itas a value. But so let's let's
do a different core value. Whatif I value safety and security and you
value curiosity and an adventure, thoseare the top of our core values,
right, And what the values thatwe're speaking, by the way, it
(12:00):
comes from a research list of twentydifferent core values that we use within our
program. So there's twenty different corevalues that kind of dictate, you know,
the vast majority of human behavior.But what primarily kind of drives me
is this need to feel safe andto feel secure, And what primarily drives
you is a sense of curiosity,of exploration, of adventure and kind of
(12:20):
always seeking the new. Right,we're both Christian, we both met at
church, but these are fundamentally differentvalues and they're at odds with one another
because it's very difficult to go outand seek adventure and curiosity and learning new
things while also being safe and secure. That's going to be really hard,
(12:41):
right, because you'll probably be theperson that's like, we need to stay
home, we need to raise thekids. Everything's got to be routine.
And I'm like, hey, Iwant to I want to go out into
the community. I want to govisit this thorough country and be of service.
Yeah, why aren't you coming withme? There's always going to be
conflict because we do we're not aligned. Yes, So the idea that incompatibility
is not a thing again patently false. You can indeed be incompatible from a
(13:09):
sense of value standpoint, and onceagain, can we work through that.
Absolutely? If two people have theright like, they need to have the
right understanding, the right knowledge,the right tools be able to deal with
this. It's not just about dumpingan effort. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you shouldn't just quitjust because it's not working. You should
put the effort in the time.But however, if you're not compatible,
that's a huge issue. Yeah,it's one that needs to actually be addressed.
(13:31):
Absolutely. Okay, then it goeson. It's a term made up
by divorce attorneys to justify divorce.No, dumbass divorce attorneys did not make
this up to justify divorce. Maybethey made it up as a reason not
to justify. It's just to simplyput down on a form. It has
(13:54):
nothing to do with justification of anything. It has to do with simplifying the
process of basically legally separating. Andthat's different from research showing the reasons for
divorce. Yes, research that showsthe reason. And this is like,
oh my gosh, this guy's acounselor how many I don't understand how you
could even come at this from thisstandpoint of saying that he's a professional counselor
(14:20):
yeah, I mean once again,it's attractive in the sense of you got
a quick answer, but then onceagain, now what after you start?
Okay, fine, I'll grow,you know, I'll be more mature,
But then there's no steps or there'sno guidance to getting you there. Correct.
Okay, we're all incompatible because we'reall different. Okay, there's somebody
here that could be completely compatible withyou because nobody's exactly like you. So
(14:46):
no matter who you're with and whoyou're married, you're going to be incompatible.
Okay, this is what makes thingslike this I feel like go viral.
It's what gives these like this particularvideo actually went pretty viral, is
that oftentimes within these messages are sometruths. There are some things there that
like, are meaningful. Part ofwhat he's saying here is kind of meaningful.
(15:09):
Nobody is going to be exactly likeyou, right O. Great,
you're never going to find someone thatthinks the exact same way you do.
Correct, But that doesn't mean thatyou're That doesn't mean that it's impossible to
find someone who is compatible with you, who shares similar values. That is
entirely possible, absolutely so, nomatter who you marry. Now, there
is some other truths to this toothat we should talk about, Like,
(15:31):
for example, the research from GominInstitute. Yeah, I mean Godman basically
says that any partner that are youwith, even if you divorce or separate
and have a new partner, youinherit sixty nine percent of their problems.
Yes, so we all have issues, we all have issues and you inherit
them. But that doesn't mean,you know, like, you can't be
compatible. You have to find stillfind someone that you're compatible with. Well,
(15:54):
and there's another study too, andthis is what's interesting is I'm very
curious from the Gomin and stuperspective ifthey actually combine that understanding with Phoenie's understanding,
because Phoenie did studies that basically showedwhere eighty percent of the relationships that
we choose are going to be basedon essentially past hatchments attachment ones. But
this is so once again, whenyou look at the two research, the
(16:15):
two statistics, it shows the approachthat you're going to take. So,
for example, from the Godment side, communication don't really change much. You
get what you get, and soit just kind of keep it on this
kind of simplistic surface level and therelationship can kind of work itself out.
Versus if you take Phoenie, you'rebasically saying, look, that means that
(16:37):
both of us have to do workon ourselves, support each other in that
process, and be accountable for thewounds that we bring as well as working
on the relationship itself. That's amore an emotional space, it's more total
in terms of how you're going toapproach it. For those that aren't familiar
with these names, let's go aheadand give a bit of context. So
the Godment Institute is a research institutestarted by the comments there are a couple.
(17:00):
They're doctors of psychology and basically theyhave a large body of evidence based
research around relationship psychology. You wantto talk about Poenie in his background.
Yeah, So phoenie' is a researcherwho studies relationships and you know, one
of his biggest researches finding out thenumber one cause for divorces in marriages.
And what I'm saying about looking atlike both these is when you combine the
(17:23):
two of them, right, thereis truth to the fact that you're very
likely you're very likely to marry somebodywho has a similar set of issues as
as you. Right, And sowhen he says, like, you know,
there's it doesn't matter who you marry, there's a little bit of truth
(17:45):
to that, because most of usare going to marry based on these pass
attachment wounds and traumas and things,and on top of that, we're going
to inherit the issues of the otherperson. And I guess what I'm saying
and combining those two is like,look, if Phoenie has showed that basically
we all have an eighty percent chanceof just kind of choosing based on attachment
wounds, then it's very likely thatyour partner's issues are already your issues.
(18:07):
So when you look at Gotman's oflike sixty nine percent, you're going to
take on Yeah, you are goingto take on some of their issues,
But how many of those issues werejust there to begin with? Yeah,
so it goes counter to his argumentthat you're incompatible. It's actually the research
those that you have complimentary wounds thatmake you compatible. Yeah. I guess
from that standpoint that you have toeach of you need to work on and
(18:29):
actually make the relationship work itself.So that would go against what he's saying.
Yeah, that would for sure goagainst it. I think. I
mean, if we would interpret whathe means by that is like we're all
going to have like if you change, everyone's different. Everyone's just different.
So no one's compatible. That's aokay, yeah, that's true. Yes,
but there's compatibility emotionally, you know, there's complimentary things that you guys
(18:52):
believe in and share. That iscompatibility. Yes, okay, so so
far we're kind of on the samepage. So no matter who you're with
and who you're married, you're goingto be incompatible. The truth is you
can get along with anybody that youchoose to get along with, and you
can choose to love anybody that youchoose to love. Wrong, overly simplified
(19:18):
again, overly simplified, Like,there is a truth to the fact that,
like, you can choose to lovesomebody right like you, Yeah,
you can choose to forgive them,you can choose to love them. But
there's also something that we have tounderstand, like if we are trying to
love somebody that we don't fundamentally respect, because that person, if you and
(19:41):
I are incompatible in the sense of, like our values are opposed, right,
You're going to constantly do things thatare against my values, and that's
going to force me to lose respector what we call regard for you.
And in that process that loss ofregard, I can convince myself to keep
liking you. I can convince myselto keep loving you, but it comes
(20:02):
at a cost. It comes atthe cost of my own emotional well being,
meaning like if this continues, Yeah, I can choose to love you
as long as I repress my ownemotional needs, my own thoughts. The
fact that I don't have regard foryou, I don't have respect for you.
Yeah, if I if I burythose things deep, I can choose
(20:22):
to love you. Yeah, Whichis that that's such a strong statement,
right, He's basically saying that youcan make any marriage work with anybody.
Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah, because the reality of this is like
in practice, from a clinical standpoint, what will happen is you can choose
to love that person for a timeuntil there's a critical breakdown, and there
(20:44):
will be a breakdown because you canonly put your own emotional needs to this
side, your own you know,who you are, your individuality. You
can only brush those things off forso long before it takes a toll on
your body, your mind, yourspirit, everything. Yeah. But also
so like there's different types of love, right, Friendship, love, intimacy
love. So he's basically saying youcan take any single person and as long
(21:07):
as you do the work, you'regoing to have that that love of intimacy
with that person by just doing thework. That is crazy. It's just
not true, and it's part ofthis big issue of that gets spread,
you know, within communities like this, whether it's within Christianity or within a
specific church, or or just anyorganization that you can make any relationship work.
(21:30):
Right, it's the idea that themarriage is everything and should be sacrificed
at no cost, Like there isno cost that is too high to preserve
the marriage. Well, there actuallyare costs that are too high to preserve
a marriage, Like people can besuicidal because of ideologies like this that nothing
else is is can supersede the marriage. Right, So they'll put themselves in
(21:52):
a situation where their their mental health, their emotional health, their physical health
will decline to such a point thatthey're lively on their deathbed or they are
deciding whether they should kill themselves orwhatever. It is, just because they
can't let go of the idea thata marriage can fail. And that's counter
to what he's saying, because inthat example, you have a person that's
(22:15):
trying too hard, yes, andthey're being overly mature because they're believing in
something that probably isn't true for them, and they're just banging their head and
ultimately they're just starting to deteriorate.And this is what we see more often.
Like, if you were to askus from a clinical standpoint, what
do you see typically with people whoare getting divorced, what we would say
(22:36):
is what we typically see is twopeople that are really trying and or at
least one person who's doing everything theypossibly can to make it work. And
it has nothing to do with effort. It has to do with they're taking
a broken engine and running it harderand they're pushing more and more and more
and it's just not working. Andthat's the dangerous part of this advice,
(23:00):
right because if you if we werespeaking of this car analogy nowhere, would
you take a car like you takea car to a mechanic and you say,
like, I'm hearing some weird soundsfrom the engine, and you know
it's breaking down, like I can'tgo past this speed, it won't go
above thirty miles an hour, Andno mechanic worth is Salt or her Salt
would say, yeah, you knowwhat, I'm just going to turn it
(23:22):
on and run it harder. Let'slet's run it at like eighty miles an
hour, one hundred miles an hourand see what happens. No, the
engine is going to completely destroy itself. And that's what this advice does,
is it has you under the ideaof, like, if it's not working,
all you gotta do is run theengine harder. Yeah, instead of
getting to the roots. And oneof the things I love that you said,
I think it's in our group.The more intimate it gets, the
(23:45):
more your values need to be aligned. Yes, and that will show the
intimacy of the relationship. Yeah,it's the opposite of what he's saying,
Like, the more expectation you havefor connection, the more you do need
to be compatible where you do needto share similar value exactly. So again,
like it's very Danish, it soundsgood, but once again it's very
(24:06):
very dangerous. Yes. Okay,Now, if I were to summarize thousands
of hours of marriage count, thousandsof rec relationships words, this is going
to save you a lot of money. Here are the two words you need
to hear that will make your marriagea success. Grow up. And everybody
laughs, Oh that's so funny.And I've been there, I've been in
(24:30):
these audiences. I've heard it andit is so cringey. This is one
of those moments where Anthony, I'msorry, you just got to bleep this.
I just want to go, whatthe fuck? Like, what what
does that even mean? Grow up? How does that help to people that
are actually struggling? Grow up?What does that mean. Yeah, I
mean the irony here is his adviceis very childish, and the way he's
(24:53):
saying it is very childish. Yeah, it is the most simplistic, most
childish way of addressing this issue.You know, So okay, grow up
and this is the other thing,So okay grow up. So as an
adult, what does that mean movingforward? What are the steps that need
to be taken as a grown upto actually make marriages work? With all
of your experience, please break itdown for us to help us understand.
(25:15):
Yeah, where is that? Idon't know. I mean he goes into
it of like he says, it'simmaturity and inflexibility. I'll display it.
Stop being irritating little immature. Firstof all, Christian pastors don't plant the
word in our head but then notsay it like again, what the I'm
(25:37):
not going to say it, butI'm going to just put it in your
head like you did say it,like if you I'm sorry, this is
like me, let it go.I'm not going to say the word maturity
that cause us marriage to die.It's not incompatibility. It's inflexibility. I
want what I want and I wantit now, and you want what you
(25:59):
want and neither of us are oldenough, mature enough, smart enough,
spiritual enough to change. And thisis the crux of it, right,
that it all comes down to immaturity, wanting it enough, you know,
effort and putting. And this iswhere it's like, no, there can
(26:21):
be some okay, Like if youwant to say, of the divorces that
occur, ten percent of them aredue to immaturity people not taking ownership.
I mean, ownership is a bigissue across the board and divorce and relationship
dynamics. Right, But again it'sonly one of you know this many problems.
But there might be let's say,of all the people that get divorced,
(26:45):
maybe ten percent do it because they'rejust unwilling, They're inflexible, they
don't want to put in the effort. I could get behind a number like
that, but to say that that'sthe majority when in reality, from a
integal standpoint, it's not the majority. Yeah, I mean, I would
say it's redefining what that means,right, instead of just the generic term
(27:08):
of immaturity, I would say,like, like the eighty percent, you
have to work on yourself and identifythe wounds that you have and make sure
that you're not identifying that as intimacyin a relationship. Own that and then
really work on building a relationship.Align core values. Fine, then you're
being mature, You're you're you're doingeverything that you can. Yeah, but
(27:30):
he's not giving that kind of directionor guidance. He's just saying, grow
up and stop being inflexible and justmake sacrifices and it will workout. But
this advice is also what leads peopleto like, like grow up, right,
That's that's what you say to somebodywhen they say, hey, look
like the way that you said thatit really kind of hurt me. And
(27:51):
then your partner's like, you justgot to grow up, man. That's
that advice that's very dismissive. It'sdismissive advice of like, like, dude,
that that shouldn't matter, that shouldn'tbother you. It plays into the
unhealthy dynamic that the that that isalready happening in these relationships. But it
also takes the assumption the only waythat this advice works is if you have
(28:12):
a really good relationship already, andthen yeah, okay, and you guys
are forgetting things and maybe you're notputting things in perspective and I don't want
the rolls Royce anymore. And it'sjust a grow up. You have a
car, you have a family,Okay, cool, Yeah, we're going
to grow up. We're just goingto have perspective. Then, for that
audience it would work. But foreveryone else where you're just trying your best
(28:32):
to work things out, it's terribleadvice. Well, and that's the situation
where like again, better communication toolswill actually help you. Right if you
if you have a fundamentally healthy relationshipwhere a few things are you know,
out of whack, this advice canhelp you maintain perspective. It's communication is
better tools. Use more eye statements, use more you know, talk about
(28:53):
the way that you feel. Don'tlabel them and label their emotions and let
them speak for them. Like thosetypes of comunication tools can help when you're
dealing with something that's fundamentally healthy,but that's not the majority of people who
need clinical advice and support. Absolutely, and then to his audience. Within
the audience, the whole advice isjust honor God, follow the Bible,
(29:15):
play roles, do what you needto do and be mature. But what
if it goes beyond that, wherelike you're really not compatible. This doesn't
you know the v for that thevalues are not aut aligned, or like
I'm just this doesn't work for me. Then what Well, you just got
to try harder, like you're saying, right, just grind harder. You're
just going to go into the cycleof depression. It's not going to be
(29:37):
a good outcome for you. No, so, and I don't want to
you know, I'm not angry andgoing after Rick Warren. This is the
example that we're kind of talking aboutof a bigger problem that's present throughout all
of it. It's not even justChristianity or just Church. It's like you
see these things post online all thetime, and it goes hard at the
(29:57):
number one reason for divorce. Youjust got to try harder, and it's
just being more mature, and it'sgoing after all of that because that is
the underlying problem that you can't pigeonholeeverything into like one simple solution. Life
is more complex than that. Sometimes, Yeah, it's wild that we look
for you know, such a wecan admit that human beings and our behavior
(30:19):
is complex, and yet we wantto simplify it down to like a box.
Oh this is the box that youbelong in. Yeah, and life
is much more than that. Soanyway, what do you all think.
We would love to hear your guysthe comments. If you're just listening to
the podcast, by the way,you can dm us on Instagram let us
know your thoughts, you have questions. If you're watching on YouTube, you
(30:41):
guys can comment below. And inthe meantime, you might have noticed by
the way that we've we've slowed downa little bit and creating content. It's
not because the platform's going in whereit's actually the opposite. We're working on
our self study program. This isgoing to be a program where we can
actually start bringing all the people Wehave twenty five hundred people on this weight
list and email lists that they're justtrying to get into our coaching programs.
This will actually allow us to startbringing everybody into the group and create a
(31:04):
program that everybody can follow along withand where we can do group sessions.
So build a community that's gonna beamazing. Yeah. But if you guys
want more info on that, justjoin the newsletter. You can find that
at twelve week Relationships dot com.We'll have a link to it in the
description of the video. As well. You can also find it on our
social bios And that's it for us, so we'll see you all next time.
(31:25):
Thank you, blease.
Doctor Glenn. Yes, sir,there's a topic I very much want to
discuss, debate all of it.I want to break it down. The
idea that the number one cause fordivorce is immaturity or the lack of effort
going into relationship. I partially agreein the sense of how dare you?
I know? But immaturity. Ido feel like a lot of times people
(00:21):
are immature. And what I meanby immaturity is you're not doing your due
diligence to take ownership for the thingsthat you do in a relationship. Okay,
but like see, that's one ofmy exact issues is just how vague
this is, like immaturity. See, when you say immature, I think
of someone who's young. I thinkof an adolescent, someone who doesn't think,
(00:42):
you know, through their thoughts inamature manner. And yes, you
could say ownership is one of those, but ownership is much more direct like
ownership. Sure, somebody that doesn'ttake ownership is probably lacking maturity, but
that's not the If ownership is theissue. To say ownership, not immaturity,
I think they're interchangeable, right ownershipownership is a sign immaturity. Well,
(01:04):
I guess that's what we're getting into, because I would say they're not
interchangeable, and the immaturity in andof itself is not. Well, my
whole issue with this is it's it'ssuper vague effort. Is not the number
one reason. Neither is immaturity thenumber one reason that people are getting divorced.
I mean, you can say thatit's a factor, but to go
so deep as it say it's numberone, I agree with either it's not
(01:26):
the number one factor. I wouldsay that it plays a big part though
well, And I guess the overallproblem that I want to discuss is something
that you know, growing up withinMormonism, within a Christian upbringing, there's
a lot of aspects that I verymuch appreciated about that education in the sense
of, like I stopped practicing Ithink this is like seven years ago now,
when I was thirty five, right, There was a lot of aspects
(01:48):
of that that I appreciated, butbut a lot of aspects that I didn't.
What I appreciate it was there wasgenerally a sense of serving one another,
and it was you know, discussedquite a bit that they're supposed to
be a certain level of I say, equality, but it's like equality within
a system that was kind of stillvery patriarchal in general, but but that
both people were responsible and that tolove and to serve and to you know,
(02:13):
be christ Like and all. Ithink that that aspect was very positive.
But one thing that got constantly shared, and it's like as if it's
something that is so easy to buyinto, is the idea that most divorces
occur, that marriages fail, partnershipsfail because of effort. That's patently false.
And the other idea that that youknow, the marriages fail because of
(02:37):
immaturity. And so we have avideo that we're going to play because it
kind of summarizes this conversation um andhow it shared. I found this shared
so often though from the pulpit,and I don't understand why. I mean,
so you bring up so you bringup another point. Then so you're
saying like immaturity in relation to honoringa religious belief what a marriage should be,
(03:00):
and then people trying to live upand honor that and then being called
immature. I agree with you thereif that's if they're they're saying like this
is the end goal and you're justnot doing enough. You're not honoring what
God is telling you to do,or this is how it should be done,
and therefore grow up and you're nottrying hard enough. I agree with
you well in that lens. Idon't exactly know what lens they're speaking from.
(03:22):
Problem. Part of my issue withit is that it's just so vague
and generic. Right. Part ofthe issue is because it is just patently
false. But why don't we goahead and play and a sample of and
we're just picking one this is froma pastor Rick Warren from Saddleback Church,
will play kind of the argument ofwhat he's saying, because it's kind of
the same thing that's being repeated.The number one reason people gave for divorcing
(03:46):
was this pastor. We're just quoteincompatible. That was their reason. We're
just incompatible friends. There's no suchthing as patibility, Actually there is.
It's a term made up by wholebut we'll listen to justify divorce. We're
all incompatible because we're all different.Nobody's could be completely compatible with you because
(04:15):
nobody's exactly like you. So nomatter who you're with and who you're married,
you're going to be incompatible. Thetruth is you can get along with
anybody that you choose to get alongwith, and you can choose to love
anybody that you choose to love.Kind of, Now, if I were
to summarize thousands of hours of marriagecounseling in two words, this is going
(04:40):
to save you a lot of money. Here are the two words you need
to hear that will make your marriagea success. Grow up. Stop being
an irritating little immature. I won'tsay the word why not, pastor.
It's immaturity that causes marriage to die. It's not incompatibility. It's inflexibility.
(05:08):
I want what I want and Iwant it now, and you want what
you want, and neither of usare old enough, mature enough, smart
enough, spiritual enough to change.And I am willing to let this thing
die, then change, and you'rewilling to let this thing die, then
change. Has nothing to do withincompatibility. Okay, that's kind of the
gist of it. Um. Youknow, every every person that kind of
(05:30):
stands up on a on a pulpithas their own spin on it. But
the general gist is that it's effort, it's inflexibility, it's immaturity that is
the reason for divorce. Okay,So but this This gives a context because
this is a pastor and it's aChristian church, right, So if you
(05:53):
give it within that context, andLens being a grown up is praying to
God and honoring God, living Christianvalues, and then it's probably it's honoring
the man and the woman and theroles that need to be played. That
would be the definition of growing upbased on I think what he's trying to
say. Okay, so why don'twe go back through now and kind of
(06:15):
break down each of the different issuesthat I have with this And we're going
to rewind all the way back tobasically the opening where he's pulling his information
from. I find highly problematic.So at the beginning, you know,
when I used to do marriage counselingand I couldn't count the number of marriages
I help and destroyed to help.The number one reason people gave for divorcing
(06:40):
was this pastor, we're just quoteincompatible. That was their reason, we're
just incompatible. Okay, based onthis, so he says the number one
reason. And this stuff terrifies me, dude. It terrifies me that this
guy is a marriage counselor and hegives you know, relationship advice because I've
been to people like him, andI've seen how much damage they do and
(07:03):
how much they did personally in myown relationship. Because they look at everything
through a highly simplistic lens. Theydon't have enough understanding of what's going on.
And this is kind of the firstpoint that I would make here,
is like he's about to quote,like irreconcilable differences. The number one reason
that we get divorced is incompatibility.It's checked off most when you fill out
(07:27):
the application. Yeah, he mentionsin just a moment that it's on the
divorce form. Right. He saysthat this is a term that lawyers made
up. Okay, fine, it'sa term that lawyers made up. But
it's also one of very few checkboxeson a divorce form. It's not the
actual reason for divorce. It's justthe most convenient one to choose. It's
just the convenient one that you choosebecause you're not going to go into it.
(07:49):
The courts don't give a shit.Nobody cares about like why you are
getting divorced. Right, So youjust put that as a box. But
to use that as reference that thisis the number one reason people are getting
divorced shows me just how ill equippedhe is from an intellectual standpoint, from
a counseling standpoint, from everything,because he's giving advice from that lens.
(08:13):
Yeah. Once again, it's verysimplistic and it's not really backed by anything,
no other than just based on whathe's observing, saying that I see
this in the forms, and that'spretty much it. Yeah, there are
no academic studies, there's no evidencebased practice and practice studies. Nobody,
nobody talks about. Oh, thenumber one reason that people get divorced is
irreconcilable differences. No, you're pullingdata from a legal form and saying that
(08:35):
this is the reason that people aregetting divorced. And that tells me this
is just dumb, Like but you'reyou're you're delivering it with so much conviction
and confidence that people are buying it. And that's the thing that you know,
we've talked about so many times,Like, that's what scares me when
I watch people when they have theyhave a very close minded view and they're
(08:58):
so passionate about it and they seemnothing else. That to me is a
sign of ignorance. Yeah, Sothat's the first gigantic red flag that I
have and like in hearing this,and the other piece of this is,
you know, I think one ofthe reasons why this idea of incompatibility or
what he says is immaturity and notenough effort, right, The reason that
(09:22):
that sounds so appealing is because it'ssuch a simplistic solution to a very complex
problem. And so we go,oh man, well, if all I
gotta do is just put in moreeffort and just be more mature, I
can do that. Yeah. Itgives you, like, it gives you
a little bit of motivation like okay, but then once you're actually back in
the relationship again, okay, nowwhat yeah, right, there's no guidance,
(09:46):
so there's no tools. It's justa temporary like okay, and then
you're you're still lost, well,and it lets you feel like you have
a little bit of control over thisthing, when in reality, this isn't
what's happening at all. Dumping moreeffort into this or you know, I'm
gonna be less immature, it's nota solution. Okay, let's keep going
on the next line. Friends,There's no such thing as incompatibility. Okay,
(10:11):
stop, Actually, there is sucha thing as incompatibility. You can
have fundamentally differing core values. Thisis the entire focus of our research,
of the work that we do.This is incompatibility. Now, can two
people work through it, absolutely,But you can't take two people that have
opposing core values just set them downand be like, there's no such thing
(10:33):
as incompatibility. No, there actuallyis. If you value you know,
God and spirituality and religion, andI value wealth and power, those are
opposing core values. And we're notgoing to be compatible unless we specifically work
to understand each other's perspectives, unlesswe do very deliberate efforts in terms of
(10:58):
like understanding where both of us arecoming. But that is fundamentally misaligned.
No, I agree. And thenhis audience because they're speaking out of church.
The assumption is is that everyone hasthe same values because you're all there,
yes, which is not necessarily true, right like you, Like you
just said, maybe someone's looking forsomeone rich to marry and they're looking within
(11:18):
that community, that would be theircore value. Yes, God and spirituality,
because I really believe in what's takingplace. You put us together.
On the outside, it looks likewe have aligned values, but we really
don't. Yeah, and that's likeone of the biggest that's one of my
biggest issues with dating within religion.It's not that it's a bad thing,
it's that you're looking at the wrongstuff. So let's again go back to
(11:39):
this and say that we both meetat church, right, and let's give
a maybe an example of like well, wealth and power, Like there's not
that many people that maybe have itas a value. But so let's let's
do a different core value. Whatif I value safety and security and you
value curiosity and an adventure, thoseare the top of our core values,
right, And what the values thatwe're speaking, by the way, it
(12:00):
comes from a research list of twentydifferent core values that we use within our
program. So there's twenty different corevalues that kind of dictate, you know,
the vast majority of human behavior.But what primarily kind of drives me
is this need to feel safe andto feel secure, And what primarily drives
you is a sense of curiosity,of exploration, of adventure and kind of
(12:20):
always seeking the new. Right,we're both Christian, we both met at
church, but these are fundamentally differentvalues and they're at odds with one another
because it's very difficult to go outand seek adventure and curiosity and learning new
things while also being safe and secure. That's going to be really hard,
(12:41):
right, because you'll probably be theperson that's like, we need to stay
home, we need to raise thekids. Everything's got to be routine.
And I'm like, hey, Iwant to I want to go out into
the community. I want to govisit this thorough country and be of service.
Yeah, why aren't you coming withme? There's always going to be
conflict because we do we're not aligned. Yes, So the idea that incompatibility
is not a thing again patently false. You can indeed be incompatible from a
(13:09):
sense of value standpoint, and onceagain, can we work through that.
Absolutely? If two people have theright like, they need to have the
right understanding, the right knowledge,the right tools be able to deal with
this. It's not just about dumpingan effort. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you shouldn't just quitjust because it's not working. You should
put the effort in the time.But however, if you're not compatible,
that's a huge issue. Yeah,it's one that needs to actually be addressed.
(13:31):
Absolutely. Okay, then it goeson. It's a term made up
by divorce attorneys to justify divorce.No, dumbass divorce attorneys did not make
this up to justify divorce. Maybethey made it up as a reason not
to justify. It's just to simplyput down on a form. It has
(13:54):
nothing to do with justification of anything. It has to do with simplifying the
process of basically legally separating. Andthat's different from research showing the reasons for
divorce. Yes, research that showsthe reason. And this is like,
oh my gosh, this guy's acounselor how many I don't understand how you
could even come at this from thisstandpoint of saying that he's a professional counselor
(14:20):
yeah, I mean once again,it's attractive in the sense of you got
a quick answer, but then onceagain, now what after you start?
Okay, fine, I'll grow,you know, I'll be more mature,
But then there's no steps or there'sno guidance to getting you there. Correct.
Okay, we're all incompatible because we'reall different. Okay, there's somebody
here that could be completely compatible withyou because nobody's exactly like you. So
(14:46):
no matter who you're with and whoyou're married, you're going to be incompatible.
Okay, this is what makes thingslike this I feel like go viral.
It's what gives these like this particularvideo actually went pretty viral, is
that oftentimes within these messages are sometruths. There are some things there that
like, are meaningful. Part ofwhat he's saying here is kind of meaningful.
(15:09):
Nobody is going to be exactly likeyou, right O. Great,
you're never going to find someone thatthinks the exact same way you do.
Correct, But that doesn't mean thatyou're That doesn't mean that it's impossible to
find someone who is compatible with you, who shares similar values. That is
entirely possible, absolutely so, nomatter who you marry. Now, there
is some other truths to this toothat we should talk about, Like,
(15:31):
for example, the research from GominInstitute. Yeah, I mean Godman basically
says that any partner that are youwith, even if you divorce or separate
and have a new partner, youinherit sixty nine percent of their problems.
Yes, so we all have issues, we all have issues and you inherit
them. But that doesn't mean,you know, like, you can't be
compatible. You have to find stillfind someone that you're compatible with. Well,
(15:54):
and there's another study too, andthis is what's interesting is I'm very
curious from the Gomin and stuperspective ifthey actually combine that understanding with Phoenie's understanding,
because Phoenie did studies that basically showedwhere eighty percent of the relationships that
we choose are going to be basedon essentially past hatchments attachment ones. But
this is so once again, whenyou look at the two research, the
(16:15):
two statistics, it shows the approachthat you're going to take. So,
for example, from the Godment side, communication don't really change much. You
get what you get, and soit just kind of keep it on this
kind of simplistic surface level and therelationship can kind of work itself out.
Versus if you take Phoenie, you'rebasically saying, look, that means that
(16:37):
both of us have to do workon ourselves, support each other in that
process, and be accountable for thewounds that we bring as well as working
on the relationship itself. That's amore an emotional space, it's more total
in terms of how you're going toapproach it. For those that aren't familiar
with these names, let's go aheadand give a bit of context. So
the Godment Institute is a research institutestarted by the comments there are a couple.
(17:00):
They're doctors of psychology and basically theyhave a large body of evidence based
research around relationship psychology. You wantto talk about Poenie in his background.
Yeah, So phoenie' is a researcherwho studies relationships and you know, one
of his biggest researches finding out thenumber one cause for divorces in marriages.
And what I'm saying about looking atlike both these is when you combine the
(17:23):
two of them, right, thereis truth to the fact that you're very
likely you're very likely to marry somebodywho has a similar set of issues as
as you. Right, And sowhen he says, like, you know,
there's it doesn't matter who you marry, there's a little bit of truth
(17:45):
to that, because most of usare going to marry based on these pass
attachment wounds and traumas and things,and on top of that, we're going
to inherit the issues of the otherperson. And I guess what I'm saying
and combining those two is like,look, if Phoenie has showed that basically
we all have an eighty percent chanceof just kind of choosing based on attachment
wounds, then it's very likely thatyour partner's issues are already your issues.
(18:07):
So when you look at Gotman's oflike sixty nine percent, you're going to
take on Yeah, you are goingto take on some of their issues,
But how many of those issues werejust there to begin with? Yeah,
so it goes counter to his argumentthat you're incompatible. It's actually the research
those that you have complimentary wounds thatmake you compatible. Yeah. I guess
from that standpoint that you have toeach of you need to work on and
(18:29):
actually make the relationship work itself.So that would go against what he's saying.
Yeah, that would for sure goagainst it. I think. I
mean, if we would interpret whathe means by that is like we're all
going to have like if you change, everyone's different. Everyone's just different.
So no one's compatible. That's aokay, yeah, that's true. Yes,
but there's compatibility emotionally, you know, there's complimentary things that you guys
(18:52):
believe in and share. That iscompatibility. Yes, okay, so so
far we're kind of on the samepage. So no matter who you're with
and who you're married, you're goingto be incompatible. The truth is you
can get along with anybody that youchoose to get along with, and you
can choose to love anybody that youchoose to love. Wrong, overly simplified
(19:18):
again, overly simplified, Like,there is a truth to the fact that,
like, you can choose to lovesomebody right like you, Yeah,
you can choose to forgive them,you can choose to love them. But
there's also something that we have tounderstand, like if we are trying to
love somebody that we don't fundamentally respect, because that person, if you and
(19:41):
I are incompatible in the sense of, like our values are opposed, right,
You're going to constantly do things thatare against my values, and that's
going to force me to lose respector what we call regard for you.
And in that process that loss ofregard, I can convince myself to keep
liking you. I can convince myselto keep loving you, but it comes
(20:02):
at a cost. It comes atthe cost of my own emotional well being,
meaning like if this continues, Yeah, I can choose to love you
as long as I repress my ownemotional needs, my own thoughts. The
fact that I don't have regard foryou, I don't have respect for you.
Yeah, if I if I burythose things deep, I can choose
(20:22):
to love you. Yeah, Whichis that that's such a strong statement,
right, He's basically saying that youcan make any marriage work with anybody.
Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah, because the reality of this is like
in practice, from a clinical standpoint, what will happen is you can choose
to love that person for a timeuntil there's a critical breakdown, and there
(20:44):
will be a breakdown because you canonly put your own emotional needs to this
side, your own you know,who you are, your individuality. You
can only brush those things off forso long before it takes a toll on
your body, your mind, yourspirit, everything. Yeah. But also
so like there's different types of love, right, Friendship, love, intimacy
love. So he's basically saying youcan take any single person and as long
(21:07):
as you do the work, you'regoing to have that that love of intimacy
with that person by just doing thework. That is crazy. It's just
not true, and it's part ofthis big issue of that gets spread,
you know, within communities like this, whether it's within Christianity or within a
specific church, or or just anyorganization that you can make any relationship work.
(21:30):
Right, it's the idea that themarriage is everything and should be sacrificed
at no cost, Like there isno cost that is too high to preserve
the marriage. Well, there actuallyare costs that are too high to preserve
a marriage, Like people can besuicidal because of ideologies like this that nothing
else is is can supersede the marriage. Right, So they'll put themselves in
(21:52):
a situation where their their mental health, their emotional health, their physical health
will decline to such a point thatthey're lively on their deathbed or they are
deciding whether they should kill themselves orwhatever. It is, just because they
can't let go of the idea thata marriage can fail. And that's counter
to what he's saying, because inthat example, you have a person that's
(22:15):
trying too hard, yes, andthey're being overly mature because they're believing in
something that probably isn't true for them, and they're just banging their head and
ultimately they're just starting to deteriorate.And this is what we see more often.
Like, if you were to askus from a clinical standpoint, what
do you see typically with people whoare getting divorced, what we would say
(22:36):
is what we typically see is twopeople that are really trying and or at
least one person who's doing everything theypossibly can to make it work. And
it has nothing to do with effort. It has to do with they're taking
a broken engine and running it harderand they're pushing more and more and more
and it's just not working. Andthat's the dangerous part of this advice,
(23:00):
right because if you if we werespeaking of this car analogy nowhere, would
you take a car like you takea car to a mechanic and you say,
like, I'm hearing some weird soundsfrom the engine, and you know
it's breaking down, like I can'tgo past this speed, it won't go
above thirty miles an hour, Andno mechanic worth is Salt or her Salt
would say, yeah, you knowwhat, I'm just going to turn it
(23:22):
on and run it harder. Let'slet's run it at like eighty miles an
hour, one hundred miles an hourand see what happens. No, the
engine is going to completely destroy itself. And that's what this advice does,
is it has you under the ideaof, like, if it's not working,
all you gotta do is run theengine harder. Yeah, instead of
getting to the roots. And oneof the things I love that you said,
I think it's in our group.The more intimate it gets, the
(23:45):
more your values need to be aligned. Yes, and that will show the
intimacy of the relationship. Yeah,it's the opposite of what he's saying,
Like, the more expectation you havefor connection, the more you do need
to be compatible where you do needto share similar value exactly. So again,
like it's very Danish, it soundsgood, but once again it's very
(24:06):
very dangerous. Yes. Okay,Now, if I were to summarize thousands
of hours of marriage count, thousandsof rec relationships words, this is going
to save you a lot of money. Here are the two words you need
to hear that will make your marriagea success. Grow up. And everybody
laughs, Oh that's so funny.And I've been there, I've been in
(24:30):
these audiences. I've heard it andit is so cringey. This is one
of those moments where Anthony, I'msorry, you just got to bleep this.
I just want to go, whatthe fuck? Like, what what
does that even mean? Grow up? How does that help to people that
are actually struggling? Grow up?What does that mean. Yeah, I
mean the irony here is his adviceis very childish, and the way he's
(24:53):
saying it is very childish. Yeah, it is the most simplistic, most
childish way of addressing this issue.You know, So okay, grow up
and this is the other thing,So okay grow up. So as an
adult, what does that mean movingforward? What are the steps that need
to be taken as a grown upto actually make marriages work? With all
of your experience, please break itdown for us to help us understand.
(25:15):
Yeah, where is that? Idon't know. I mean he goes into
it of like he says, it'simmaturity and inflexibility. I'll display it.
Stop being irritating little immature. Firstof all, Christian pastors don't plant the
word in our head but then notsay it like again, what the I'm
(25:37):
not going to say it, butI'm going to just put it in your
head like you did say it,like if you I'm sorry, this is
like me, let it go.I'm not going to say the word maturity
that cause us marriage to die.It's not incompatibility. It's inflexibility. I
want what I want and I wantit now, and you want what you
(25:59):
want and neither of us are oldenough, mature enough, smart enough,
spiritual enough to change. And thisis the crux of it, right,
that it all comes down to immaturity, wanting it enough, you know,
effort and putting. And this iswhere it's like, no, there can
(26:21):
be some okay, Like if youwant to say, of the divorces that
occur, ten percent of them aredue to immaturity people not taking ownership.
I mean, ownership is a bigissue across the board and divorce and relationship
dynamics. Right, But again it'sonly one of you know this many problems.
But there might be let's say,of all the people that get divorced,
(26:45):
maybe ten percent do it because they'rejust unwilling, They're inflexible, they
don't want to put in the effort. I could get behind a number like
that, but to say that that'sthe majority when in reality, from a
integal standpoint, it's not the majority. Yeah, I mean, I would
say it's redefining what that means,right, instead of just the generic term
(27:08):
of immaturity, I would say,like, like the eighty percent, you
have to work on yourself and identifythe wounds that you have and make sure
that you're not identifying that as intimacyin a relationship. Own that and then
really work on building a relationship.Align core values. Fine, then you're
being mature, You're you're you're doingeverything that you can. Yeah, but
(27:30):
he's not giving that kind of directionor guidance. He's just saying, grow
up and stop being inflexible and justmake sacrifices and it will workout. But
this advice is also what leads peopleto like, like grow up, right,
That's that's what you say to somebodywhen they say, hey, look
like the way that you said thatit really kind of hurt me. And
(27:51):
then your partner's like, you justgot to grow up, man. That's
that advice that's very dismissive. It'sdismissive advice of like, like, dude,
that that shouldn't matter, that shouldn'tbother you. It plays into the
unhealthy dynamic that the that that isalready happening in these relationships. But it
also takes the assumption the only waythat this advice works is if you have
(28:12):
a really good relationship already, andthen yeah, okay, and you guys
are forgetting things and maybe you're notputting things in perspective and I don't want
the rolls Royce anymore. And it'sjust a grow up. You have a
car, you have a family,Okay, cool, Yeah, we're going
to grow up. We're just goingto have perspective. Then, for that
audience it would work. But foreveryone else where you're just trying your best
(28:32):
to work things out, it's terribleadvice. Well, and that's the situation
where like again, better communication toolswill actually help you. Right if you
if you have a fundamentally healthy relationshipwhere a few things are you know,
out of whack, this advice canhelp you maintain perspective. It's communication is
better tools. Use more eye statements, use more you know, talk about
(28:53):
the way that you feel. Don'tlabel them and label their emotions and let
them speak for them. Like thosetypes of comunication tools can help when you're
dealing with something that's fundamentally healthy,but that's not the majority of people who
need clinical advice and support. Absolutely, and then to his audience. Within
the audience, the whole advice isjust honor God, follow the Bible,
(29:15):
play roles, do what you needto do and be mature. But what
if it goes beyond that, wherelike you're really not compatible. This doesn't
you know the v for that thevalues are not aut aligned, or like
I'm just this doesn't work for me. Then what Well, you just got
to try harder, like you're saying, right, just grind harder. You're
just going to go into the cycleof depression. It's not going to be
(29:37):
a good outcome for you. No, so, and I don't want to
you know, I'm not angry andgoing after Rick Warren. This is the
example that we're kind of talking aboutof a bigger problem that's present throughout all
of it. It's not even justChristianity or just Church. It's like you
see these things post online all thetime, and it goes hard at the
(29:57):
number one reason for divorce. Youjust got to try harder, and it's
just being more mature, and it'sgoing after all of that because that is
the underlying problem that you can't pigeonholeeverything into like one simple solution. Life
is more complex than that. Sometimes, Yeah, it's wild that we look
for you know, such a wecan admit that human beings and our behavior
(30:19):
is complex, and yet we wantto simplify it down to like a box.
Oh this is the box that youbelong in. Yeah, and life
is much more than that. Soanyway, what do you all think.
We would love to hear your guysthe comments. If you're just listening to
the podcast, by the way,you can dm us on Instagram let us
know your thoughts, you have questions. If you're watching on YouTube, you
(30:41):
guys can comment below. And inthe meantime, you might have noticed by
the way that we've we've slowed downa little bit and creating content. It's
not because the platform's going in whereit's actually the opposite. We're working on
our self study program. This isgoing to be a program where we can
actually start bringing all the people Wehave twenty five hundred people on this weight
list and email lists that they're justtrying to get into our coaching programs.
This will actually allow us to startbringing everybody into the group and create a
(31:04):
program that everybody can follow along withand where we can do group sessions.
So build a community that's gonna beamazing. Yeah. But if you guys
want more info on that, justjoin the newsletter. You can find that
at twelve week Relationships dot com.We'll have a link to it in the
description of the video. As well. You can also find it on our
social bios And that's it for us, so we'll see you all next time.
(31:25):
Thank you, blease.
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