Do No Harm | TNG 5.16, "Ethics" | T7R #342 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bluffing is not one of Counselor Troy's strong suits. Jordi
can see through cards, they're transparent to infrared light. And
doctor Toby Russell had the pleasure of reading doctor Crusher's
paper on cybernetic regeneration that was a long one. Hello everybody,
and welcome to the Seventh Rule, was Sir Rock Lofton yea, Hello, Hello,
My name is Ryan T. Huskin. Today we are doing

(00:22):
a review of Star Trek the Next Generation Season five,
episode sixteen, Ethics. Story by Sarah B. Cooper, Hanging with
mister Cooper and Stuart Charno. Teleplay by Ronald D. Moore,
directed by our pal Chip Chalmers. This was Leap Year,
February twenty ninth, nineteen ninety two. Where were you? How

(00:45):
you doing today, Sarrock twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm great, I'm doing great. How about okay?

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I'm good man, oh man. Whenever I get to see
a war flying in bed and Alexander talking about stuff episode,
then you know, I'm boy, oh boy, oh boy? Am
I doing great? So I remember this episode somewhat. I
remember seeing it, and I know sometimes I turn into

(01:15):
a cry baby and I go like, I don't like
procedural courtroom drama episodes. Those are the ones I really,
you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
You don't like those.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm also not a I don't want to say I'm
not a big fan of the Alexander episodes, but I
remember there are a couples before I know, I know,
and it sounds worse than how I mean it. And
there's one other episode I don't remember when it is
in this season that I just like want to rip
my hair out. I haven't seen it in twenty years,

(01:47):
but if I say one, if I say one word
to Star Trek fans, they know the one I'm talking about.
It drives me bananas. But anyway, wasn't terribly excited that
it was this one. But since I haven't I've seen
it in twenty or thirty years, I was like, let's
give it a shot and see if we enjoy it.
But that was me, you've never seen it, what'd you

(02:08):
think of it?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, you know, obviously I didn't have that kind of
like prejudice going into it, so I just took it
for what it was. Okay, So my first instinct was, Oh,
this is next generation's version of what happened to knock
on Deep Space. Nine. Right, this was like, you know,

(02:37):
somebody who has some kind of PTSD from life changing,
life altering injury. And this one went a little bit
different obviously than the NOG episode because of WARF's cultural values,

(02:59):
because if his klingon heritage, and I can say that,
although I have to agree with you to some degree
about Alexander and his presence and episodes doesn't bring out,
you know, the the most enthusiastic version of me as
a spectator. But but having said that, his role in

(03:23):
this story did play a crucial function in the storytelling,
so I thought it was appropriate his involvement in this script.
I forgot that he was even on the ship. It's funny,
it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
What are you doing here?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
I live with you, Dad, I'm still here exactly. But yeah,
I just so you know, one thing they had they
handled well in this episode was the cultural differences that

(04:05):
a starfleet crew has. Right, you're going to be dealing
with different alien races and species, and that you know,
this infinite diversity when it talks about on a galactic scale,
you know, across the cosmos. So now you're dealing with cultures,
you're dealing with behaviors, you're dealing with mannerisms. You're dealing

(04:26):
with all kinds of stuff that is not of the
fabric of Western civilization, which is what we as the
spectator are looking through the lens of We are you know,
looking at star Trek from the lens of essentially you know,
Western Western society's view of an advanced civilization. And Starfleet

(04:52):
in itself represents those value systems essentially, right, this democra,
radic ideal, free and fair trade, these certain kinds of
principles of allowing freedom of religion and freedom of beliefs,
you know, First Amendment rights, these kinds of Western philosophies

(05:16):
or whatever that come into government structure. I think those
are represented in the Federation. And what Starfleet is about,
and what they were sensitive to in this episode is
that there are other cultural norms that exist, and they

(05:38):
are sensitive to allow those norms to go forward as
long as they don't interfere with you know, the other
laws or you know, norms established by the Federation. So
I thought that was one of the most interesting aspects
of this, how adamant Picard was for sticking up for

(06:04):
warves right to suicide himself.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, And for the record, I didn't hate this episode.
That's one of the good things about watching an episode
thirty years later. It's like, kid Ryan might not have
liked something, but adult Ryan's like, what. For example, Deep
Space nine turns out my favorite episode is Explorers. I

(06:31):
don't remember watching it as a kid. It didn't affect
me at all, but watching it now as an adult,
I was like, what a freaking great episode. Take me
out to the Hollisuit's amazing. I kind of liked those
Bottle episodes, but bringing it back to this one, I
did think that that was really cool. However, what I
found most interesting was how differently it played out than

(06:54):
I expected. First of all, Picard is usually the guy
that would be like, I kind of justify death on
my ship, you know what I mean. Like, he's usually
that guy. And then Wharf is usually the kind of
guy that goes but there's nothing more honorable than or whatever,
you know, whatever he's gonna say. But in this case,
Picard was kind of advocating for Wharf against Riker, which

(07:16):
is I felt like it was very counter to how
we've seen his character in the past. Not that it
wasn't believable, it just wasn't what I expected, especially the
way he was so adamant about it. Usually he's the
one toiling with this moral dilemma rather than taking a
side on the moral dilemma for someone else. And Riker

(07:38):
was the one toiling with this moral dilemma, which was cool.
But he was so like, he was so sure about it,
Like he wasn't just like, well, I do like Wharf
and I really want to respect it. He was just like, no,
that's gross. Fuck that what are you talking about? Like
he was just so like, Yeah, I loved how like
simple he was about it. He's like, it's a no, bro, no.

(08:00):
And he was like insulting him on practically his deathbed.
He's like, you know, like zero decorum, zero sensitivity. He
was just like what, no, gross, and I can see
your toes barf.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
He just totally rude about it. Uh So that was
one thing and the other thing I thought of, And
I'd love to know your opinion on this is it
immediately flashed me back to a similar Deep Space nine
episode when Wharf's brother wants to commit suicide and wants

(08:33):
Wharf to assist him in doing it, and in this time,
Warf was saying, I'm going to kill my brother, and
Cisco was.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Like like hell no, no, he was like righter, you know,
He's like, no, we don't respect that custom. Well, I'm
not going to honor that custom, right, And this is
the exact opposite of Picard in this episode. So yeah,
I think the same thing about that episode the DS
nine were Kern where he wanted to kill his brother
and Sisko was like, not on door with it. And

(09:00):
that's what I'm saying. There's like this line between what
is acceptable and what is not acceptable, you know, culturally
to essentially integrate into this other multicultural society, because there
is a level of acquiescence when it comes to integrating

(09:25):
into a multicultural society. If you are in a homogeneous,
single culture society, then yes, there are certain norms that
everybody accepts and does you know. For example, could be cannibalism.
Let's say there are indigenous tribes around the world that
have practiced in cannibalism, and that may be the norm

(09:50):
amongst an isolated group with no you know, authority or
a governing body that kind of has authority and that
re and wherever that is, that could be the norm there.
But once you takes once that person leaves that environment
and now it joins into a multicultural environment where they're

(10:12):
not the only person of a culture. There's other cultures
that have to be integrated. There's certain level of things
you're going to have to adapt to and let go of.
You can't. We're not going to allow you to practice cannibalism,
for example, in this society. And so I think there's

(10:34):
there's that's where the line is where where what is
acceptable what is not? And I think this brings the
question up about you know, these kinds of multi ethnic,
multi species, you know, integrated societies, and how we find
ways to accept people's belief systems but not allow certain

(10:56):
belief systems that you know, trample over the rights that
we've established as you know, normative and accepted. Then you know,
there's the balance there, and there's always a push and
pool thing.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah, it's and it's a really interesting conversation that we
still have to this day. And you know, back what's
really cool about Star Trek is that they could bring
up that same theme and we've spoken about the same
theme four five, six, seven times, yet they have a
different take on it every time. And that's what's really interesting.
About they kind of hit it from a different angle

(11:32):
or try it in a different way.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know, there's a distinction between this one.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
By the way, Oh, let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
The distinction would be if it was being presented in
a legal case, you know, in front of some judges,
the distinction in the between the two incidents between Cisco
and Picard would be suicide versus murder. And in this case,
this is in assistant suicide, which would be like the

(12:02):
Jack of Workian assistant suicide cases that have been brought forth,
and that legal legality would have to be argued whether
you know, somebody is entitled to the right to have
an assisted suicide. And then the other argument, which is
the killing your brother argument, is almost an acceptable murder,

(12:27):
and that's a whole different legal uh, you know, jurisdiction essentially.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, but didn't didn't he want Riker to basically kill him?
Wasn't that what it?

Speaker 2 (12:38):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I don't know what.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
I think he wanted Riker.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
To like hold his hair while he did it.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I'm not sure was it was it just bring me
the night. I think I thought he was just had
to bring him the ninth.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, here's the thing. If we'll remember if we remember, indeed,
Space nine kern Uh great nectar. By the way, kern
Uh played the legendary Lake Green. Yeah, so he wanted
Wharf to do the thing where I think Wharf stabs him. Right,

(13:17):
So if this is that same ritual ritual suicide, then
Wharf was asking Riker to stab him, and Riker came
up with a great loophole. Hes like, ah, boy, you
know I was. I was gonna do it, but you
gotta ask this little kid to do it instead. You
got to ask your son. And WARF's like, I have

(13:39):
no son. He's like no, he's right over there. He's like,
oh shit, you're right. I keep forgetting. Do I like him?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Not really?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
He's cool. He should be nice to him. He's your son.
He's like, well, I don't really want to ask him
to kill me because what if he misses. He's not
he's the quarter humans, so he probably has bad aim.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
They didn't really cover what that entailed.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
You know, I mean as bad as I really. You know,
I'm not that interested in seeing the Alexander's storyline because
I don't think it plays serves. It doesn't serve warp well,
in my opinion, in this particular storyline, it doesn't make
him look like you said, what son, He's right there.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I was just picturing Warf and Alexander substituted in for
the Explorer's episode on Deep Space. Nice, are you there
fixing up a hammock? Look, Dad, don't make it a hammock.
Easy's not gonna work, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, you know, I just felt bad for Alexander. I mean,
what a tough life this kid had. He gets, you know,
he watches is his mother, He sees his mother's dead body,
you know what I mean, and basically Warf forces him
to like take a hard look at that.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, Wharf rubs his nose in it, like he did it,
like he is the daughter.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, he was like look at this, look it is
you know, look.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
What you did.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
But so there's that, and then he's you know, traumatized
because he's raised by these his elderly grandparents, who are
basically like, look, we don't want this kid anymore, or can't.
We can't deal with him anymore because you were too
old to deal with this kid. So here he is
being you know, he lost his mother. His grandparents are

(15:38):
basically like dropping him off like luggage on Wharf's doorstep,
and Wharf sees him once every seventeen episodes, you know,
yeh like if that like once every two seasons.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well Sorak, have I got news for you? Oh god,
you can be seen a lot more Alexander. It's start
being like one every three episodes. I can there's gonna
be a mud bath with naked with the naked troys
and walks on Troy. He's going to be in there.
It's gonna be jump with you.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
I'm not the biggest on the Alexander episode, even though
I'm not to knock the kid. I thought he did
a pretty good job this episode. Versus his performance, you know,
it's a great kid, you know, And it's just the
storyline itself is what I'm not the biggest fan of
h But yeah, I guess you're right there is if
if Wharf was assisting his brother in suicide, then then

(16:31):
it would be essentially the same argument. And you know, clearly,
Cisco's like, no, no, we don't. I don't accept that.
We're not. I'm not letting you do that. And Picard
is like, oh, well, you know, he has the right
to do it. Go ahead and kill a riker as.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Long as you're doing it. He's like, hey, my name
is Paul, and this between y'all, okay, Yeah, and I
and I.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Thought it was weird because I thought Picard should have
went up to been in Wharf's bedside at some point
if I'm if I'm one of the main guys on
the bridge and I get into a life altering accident

(17:16):
where you know, essentially going to be a paraplegic, and
the captain doesn't like come over to you know, like
walk down to the sick bate and just say, hey,
I heard about what happened. Yeah, all right, what's going on?
How do you feel? I Riiker did it, which was great,
but I feel like it's the I feel like it's

(17:36):
the duty of the captain to do that as well.
And I thought that would have been a great moment
for Wharf to open up to the captain about his insecurities.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Right looking at the script, there were a couple of
scenes that were cut out. One where Picard came and
was just asking Wharf for like his passwords and his
pass codes to get into stuff. He's like, I'm sure
you're gonna we totally know you're gonna survive, bro, But
just the case is that uppercase or lowercase the first
the first letter. We just need to get it. We

(18:08):
want to make sure because Tasha had the other copy
of the passwords.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
So yeah, Wharf Daddy twenty three at what?

Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:21):
No, But that's that's a good point, Like there was
no Picard checking on him. I mean, of course they
could just say, oh, yeah, he checked on them when
you know, at a different time. Troy was cool. She
was featured. Well, wait a minute, my background. I need
to fix my background. Oh yeah, I thought I got it,
but I guess I re uploaded last week's anyway, But

(18:45):
it was nice when Picard and Reiker were having their
meeting and they were showing clearly showing concern. When they're
just kind of like going through the motions in their meeting,
they're like, oh, what's this. It's just that much. It's
just but they're clearly thinking about Wharf. And I thought
that was really cute.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
That was cool, and it was good.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I did like it. I thought, you know, I thought
this episode in general had some good storylines in it.
I don't know, I just wish I could have seen
more vulnerability from warf. I think that's one thing that
Aaron Eisenberg deserves an amazing amount of credit for on
his performance, because when he was, when he was had

(19:30):
the opportunity to kind of stand on the stage and
deliver his performance, it was super emotional, super vulnerable, and
it really you know, spoke to how he felt. And
I think Wharf's tough exterior maybe a bravado didn't allow

(19:55):
him the moment where he could have really grabbed my
attention performance wise, and maybe you know, showed just a
little bit of vulnerability as a clean on, a little
sign of weakness, you know, that would have played well
for instead of oh, well this is what we do
as Klingons and I have to kill myself, And it

(20:16):
would have been more like, you know, I don't know
if I have any worth, you know, I feel less
of a man, you know, like more more personal things
that maybe maybe like brings a tear to his eye
where he's about to cry and he's like, I cannot cry.
I am not crying.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
You know, it is dusty in here. I got some
things to add to that. I think that's a very
good points.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Raka.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
We're going to take a super quick break everybody, and
then we're going to dive back into this conversation piece
known as ethics. We'll be right back on the seventh rule.
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the seventh Rule with so
rock makes every hat look good? Loften yellow he does.
Here are the trivioids of the week, everybody, They're coming

(21:05):
at you blazing fast. Bluffing is not one of Counselor
Troy's strong suits. Jordi can see through cards that are
transparent to infrared light. Doctor Toby Russell had the pleasure
of reading doctor Prusher's paper on cybernetic regeneration. Almost every
vital function in Klingon bodies has a built in redundancy.
The starship Denver was transporting five hundred and seventeen colonists

(21:29):
to the Balladi sector. A Klingon may not be good
at accepting defeat, but he knows all about taking risks.
And lastly, the son of a Klingon is a man
the day he can hold a blade, all right.

Speaker 5 (21:46):
So.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Keep them blaze from them. One year old?

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, because really any child can hold a blade, right,
So I mean do they mean like this one over
their head? Or do you mean that's like a butter knife.
I mean, I feel like there should be.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
At least by eight or nine months, like I was
able to grab a plate.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, something parenthetical that it belongs in there, like the
gem Hadar become warriors at three days old, but they
are genetically created as adults, right, I think at three
days old they said they can fight, they go up.
But sorry, where were we before we went off? U?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
We were talking? Yeah, we were talking about, you know,
the moment that Wharf could have had, where he could have,
you know, give a little bit of vulnerability.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Right, So what I wanted to say on that is
you can say, you know, some people might say, well, Klingons,
they don't show emotion, they don't, they don't do that
thing this they and they have a very solid set
of rules and blah blah blah blah blah. But then
I would count and say, well, Frangie, don't join the federation. Frangie,

(23:05):
don't fight and lose limbs like Nog did. But Nog
did and he acted different. He broke the norm, he
broke the mold, and that's that's more interesting. And who's
to say that a Klingon or anybody wouldn't act differently
when faced with death or something life altering. I think
it would be okay if if Wharf broke away from

(23:28):
what Wharf usually does, like you say, and had some
kind of emotional moment, because why wouldn't he, you know,
like his life is about to change or end, or
his life has changed and might end. So yeah, and
it makes it more interesting. Like you look at, Wharf
is already different than most Klingons. Most Klingons are gregarious.

(23:50):
They're warriors, but they also laugh, and they're larger than life,
and they drink. And this warf likes to pout and
harumph and you know, mumble to himself and whatever. He's
already different than most Klingons. It's okay for him to
be different in another way. And in fact, most Star
Trek characters that are not human are different.

Speaker 5 (24:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
It's like Spock is a Vulcan, but he's only half Vulcan.
You know, Nag is a Ferengi, but he joins the Federation.
Ram is a Farrangie who's bad at business were.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Like, they're always different, and so I thought it would
have been okay if he acted different too, and gave
us something interesting to chew on.

Speaker 6 (24:33):
Yeah, and you know what's interesting is that this episode
reminds me of an episode of Next Generation that we
recently covered in which they were building a civilization that
was perfect and every everybody was selected for their roles,
and you know, the people were genetically predisposed to be leaders.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
So that's why this guy was the leader. And they
were making fun of your audios off, they were making
fun of Jordie because he was blind.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, the Masterpiece Society, the Masterpiece Pieces. I thought you
were going to say it reminded you of Shades of Gray,
where it's like like Riker was like, is reliving the
same twenty episodes.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
No, the Masterpiece Society. And what we learned in The
Masterpiece Society was that people have value regardless of whatever
their physical capabilities are or disadvantages, right, members. I think
they were talking about it's funny that this thing was
invented by a blind guy. The blind guy had the
answer to their problem because of his visor. I think

(25:44):
that was the twist in that episode. And so what
they were really alluding to is that the value of
individuals beyond beyond their perfect perfect abilities, like that people
who are disabled have contributions to the world. People are

(26:06):
a heart of hearing who are blind have added to
the world in significant ways, you know, and they mentioned that,
you know, the contributions that have been made throughout time.
You know, we think of Beethoven, and we think of
all these kind of you know, this genius that we
wouldn't have if it wasn't you know, if we had
just discarded somebody based on the fact that they weren't

(26:28):
born in quote unquote perfect. And I think that same
argument applies here when you talk about somebody losing their abilities,
like warp in this instance, feeling like he has no
more value to give where where you know, if you
place all of your value on your mobility and not

(26:50):
on your mind, which you contribute, then you know, I
think that's not fair too. That's an underestimation.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, and uh, it was what Michael Dornon did well.
Was he dealt he he played the cards that were
dealt to him. He was like, Okay, we're we're complaining
a little bit that he didn't get the juiciest part
that we're hoping for. But he portrayed it well. You know,
he did seem sullen. He did seem sad, he did

(27:20):
seem like there was the weight of the world on
his shoulders. He did seem like he almost recognized Alexander,
you know, like he's like, you do look kind of
familiar Son. So he did really well. You know, I
don't want to take away from what you know, Michael
Dorton did. As a performance.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
We do look kind of.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Uh, you know, what's your what's your coffee of choice?
Can I ask you? You're taking a sip of coffee?
I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, I get a flat white with oat milk. That's
what I love.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Oat milk in my coffee too. Man, that is the
best anyway. Don't mean to change the subject there. Anyway,
I thought the performance was great by Michael Dorn And
I will say that this followed the Star Trek formula,
you know, most TV formula. But at one point when
you know, there's like seven minutes left and wharf is healing,

(28:16):
and it worked and yay, And then my first thought
was there's gonna be some kind of negative twist because
we didn't have a climb out, because you could just
sense it. It's like, Okay, here comes the climax. Here
comes and then right as I'm typing that in my notes,
it's like beebe babe, you know, alarms are going off
and this and that. But what I didn't expect, because
I didn't really remember it too well, what I didn't

(28:38):
expect was how long they were going to drag.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Out his death.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Like I thought it was going to go down, go down,
go down, and they're gonna be like, oh my god,
we saved it. Woo, what a relief. Or yeah, Crusha
was going to come out and be like, I'm sorry, Alex,
but then she'd be like, doctor, get back in here.
But no, they dragged it out for scene after scene
after scene, like really hoping that I guess people would
believe he died. Now, if we were watching this on

(29:02):
first run, you probably do believe it because they dragged
it because it ended. The scene ended, and they moved
on and they kept you kept waiting for them to
take an off ramp on that, but they stayed the course.
So that part was cool. And the great line at
the end, which was, you know, one of those unnecessary

(29:23):
redundancies saved his life basically, so that was I actually
really liked that.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, And so that leads me to what I think
was the highlight of the episode, and that is doctor Crusher.
I thought that Beverly Crusher was the real storyline behind
this episode, and the performance she gave was outstanding. There

(29:52):
was a moment there where Wor says, doctor, you can
remove the restraining field from me. I'm not going to escape,
and she takes a long pause to kind of like say, oh,
how am I going to break this news to this guy?
Because you know, it's one of those moments, right, I
mean the guy you wake up from a bad accident

(30:12):
or something, you've been discombobulated, you don't know what happened.
You're like, what happened? And then you know you're thinking, oh,
I'm just going to get up and you know, and
go to the bathroom or do something, and you realize
you can't. And I thought that Gates gave an exceptional
performance in that moment where she felt the sensitivity of

(30:35):
having to break that bad news to War. Took the
deliberate time to kind of collect herself and deliver the
lawn to him, which is war there is no restraint,
you know, like this is what this is what it
is right now. And when he comes to except that
he's She goes on to say, there's no way to

(30:58):
prepare this kind of inge, another like devastating blow that
I felt she delivered in the sensitive, gentle way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Also, really good line was when oh this was it
was preceded by something that made no sense to me.
There are a few things that didn't make too much
sense to me. I'm just gonna hit all of them

(31:31):
right now. One of those things was, shouldn't they have
like machines or computers to make this kind of precision
surgery nowadays? Right, three hundred years in the future, are
there really just like three two doctors and a nurse
just kind of digging in with you know, little tools,

(31:52):
you know, a scalpel and a screwdriver, and there's the
I don't forget your gloves. Okay, here we go. We're
putting a spine back in. Like I was like, in
three hundred years in the future. Man, it's gonna be
lasers and you know, super precision.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
But I'm especially when they're when they're over here beaming
stuff in and out. I mean they can be Morgans
in that one totally laser cuts. Yeah, and people, yeah,
you're right.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
People that remember the Videon on Voyager know that they
can do that, they can beam in and out organs.
Interesting point there, stroh. So the other thing was why
was doctor Toby doctor Toby Russell stopping Beverly Crusher. So
Wharf dies and Beverly's like again, zap again, zap, and

(32:39):
the doctor was looked at her like doctors, you gotta stop.
I'm like why if he's dead anyway, what do you care? Like,
let her try fifty times.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
She's like, oh stop, you're oh that you're wasting electricity.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, stop trying to revive him. This is horrible. Well,
he's dead anyway, give it a shot.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
It's funny. And the nurse looks up like again like
he still did right, No, No.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Let's go get I got some ice cream melting. We
gotta go.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Again, like yeah, let's just just keep doing it until
we're like we know we've overdone it. Yeah. I thought
that was funny because the nurse kept looking back at
doctor Crusher like do you want me to do it again?
And she's like yes again.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah uh so. But the line that I thought was
really good was when doctor Crusher's trying to do everything
she can to, you know, save his life and she's like,
give him, you know, quardra whatever zine and doctor Toby
says that'll kill him. And of course Beverly's great line was,

(33:48):
looks like we've done a pretty good job of that already.
I'm like, yes, a plus line, very funny, you know,
it's like dark humor, but it was. That was a
good line.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, she had another couple of good lines. She she
when she was getting pressed by Picard about you know,
you know, how come you not you don't want to
allow this experimental surgery, She's like, well, because you know
other people have you know, they fight for the end,
you know, even Tasha y Are she fought to the
very end, you know. And then she also said, uh,

(34:24):
you know, we can use the uh those little brace
based strap on things that would help him get his
mobility back, and uh Picard was like one hundred percent.
She's like, no, not one hundred percent, No, not all
of it. There are some things I cannot fix. And
she said that in a way out of frustration. I
thought that was really well delivered on her part. Yeah,

(34:48):
and then I really loved the dagger that she gave
to doctor Toby Russell, which is what she says, you gambled,
he won ouch, Yeah, And it was a nice It's
a little just like you know if you out the
door moment, like you know, you're playing with people's lives
and you're just you know, he's lucky to have won

(35:10):
in this, in this particular gamble. But I've watched you
play with people's lives and I've watched somebody lose being
on the losing end of that gamble as well. So
I thought it was, you know, really well delivered. I
honestly thought that the show was stole by Gates Macbeth.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
And I want to point out what I think is
maybe the best moment in this episode. It was Wharf
dies cut to Troy, you know, you know, being nice
to Alexander and keeping him going. Beverly walks in somberly

(35:50):
and Troy goes, no, hey, because you know, she can
sense it right away and she doesn't need the empathic
powers to get that. Every human knows if you're waiting
to see what happens, and the doctor comes out sad
or somber like, you're like, oh my god. And so
that all it was just one word, and I thought
it was It was a perfectly written scene and perfectly

(36:14):
performed and executed at you know, sometimes less is more,
and now I thought that was perfect.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, so we've seen now Wharf pass off Alexander on
his parents. Now, Troy, you can raise it this kid,
anybody but me?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Right right, that's true. That's true. So that kid just
keeps getting sleft off everywhere.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
That poor guy.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
All right, try being less annoying kid. We'll see maybe
maybe old people will be like fighting over who gets
to keep you next time. Anyway, I'm just kidding. He's
not annoying, he's adorable. Let's get to the home run
of today's episode. I think I might have a hint
already who you're picking. But who gets the home run up?
Today's episode's rock.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
They told Wharf, they said, whar if you can't kill yourself,
you have a kid, He says, why do you think
I want to kill my.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Twist? It really good up in there, So yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I'm going to just go ahead and go all out,
and you know, put the final stamp on there. Doctor
Beverly Crusher gates big fat and stole the show from me.
I thought she was really great. She showed that she
shows the ethics. She is the one that has ethics
in this particular episode, because it was her that initially said,

(37:44):
I think that'll be dangerous for my patient. So she
went out and did what a doctor should do, which
is put the interest and protect the health well being
of their patient first. So she automatically declined to a
volunteer wharf to be the test you know dummy for
this particular surgery. She was also the one you know,

(38:06):
really calling balls and strikes when it comes to ethics
of doctors. So I thought doctor Crusher was the star
of this episode.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
She had the helm for me, no argument for me.
I agree with you. She was amazing. It almost feels
like it seems like this might have been pitched as
a Wharf episode, but really feels like it's a it's
a Beverly Crusher episode. Obviously it's both, but you know, really,
she she was awesome. I agree with you, completely well

(38:36):
written for her, well performed, and sometimes she just has
these great, expressive, big blue eyes. She does a really
good job with it. Poor Geordie doesn't get to use
that as the advisor on but she does, and she
does it very well. So I totally agree with you there,
Beverly Crusher home run of the day two home runs
in one game. All right, here are some other people

(39:00):
that love baseball, and we'd like to thank them. Their
names are doctor Anne Marie Siegal, Eve England Out in Wales,
he Vet Blackman, Tom t J. Jackson Bay Out Missouri,
Titus Moller, doctor Mohammed nor anil O Palatte, Joe Booceerati,
Mike Goo, doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent, Faith Howell, Edward

(39:22):
Foltz aka Crewman Guy, The Matt Boardman, Chris McGhee, The
Dark Lord, Jake Barrett, Henry Unger, Alison Leech High, Julie Menas, Fi,
Jed Thompson, doctor Susan V. Gruner. Oh, I bet she's
got some things to say about this episode. Glenn Iverson,

(39:43):
Dave Gregory, Chris Sternet, Greg k Wickstrom, Cassandra Gerard, Chuck A,
Chris Garris, and of course Jason m Okin.

Speaker 7 (39:55):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
It would be cool to hear what doctor Ann Marie
Siegal has to say about this.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, her too.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Hope she's on the other side. All right, everybody, please
make sure you like this video, subscribe to the channel,
hit the bell like on for notifications. If you're listening in,
give us a five star rating and a nice review.
We'd really appreciate it, and please visit us at patreon
dot com slash at Seventh Rule. Become a patron, have
fun with us. You'll be glad you did. We'll be
glad you did. And that's it for us. Stick around
for the Free for All. It's going to be a party.

(40:23):
We will be right back on the Seventh Rule. Hi, everybody,
Welcome back to the Seventh Rule with Sarrok lofton. This
is the Free for All with Melissa Lungo wearing a
cool FARINGI Family shirt. Also, this is the return of
Jason don't forget the m oakin. Alison leech Hide is

(40:48):
wearing her favorite Prune juice and chill shirt. Chris Garris
is back from Southern Wait Southeastern Texas. Welcome back. And
Greg Kenzo call him Greg Kenzo. Out in Hawaii. They
have the Dark Lord Chris McGee here, it's a Jake

(41:09):
and the Matt Boardman is back. That's a cool shirt,
all right. Jake Cisco guesses the IMDb score.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Steve here, Yeah, I'm gonna say like a six point
eight somewhere around there.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Does anybody else have any guesses that doesn't already know?

Speaker 8 (41:38):
Yeah, I'm gonna say six seven.

Speaker 9 (41:42):
I'll go seven to one.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
I was going to say seven to three or we're
all like right there.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
No, no, no, wow, house Rock knows what that means.
To Kenby Mtumbo was seven two us and Greg very
very close, very close, seven to.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Two chasing two. I think he said some one.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Oh did he said six five?

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
You said six five? Yeah, that that's a little far
and little off.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
That's been two. That's tall. Uh talls woman ever was
seven for seven.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Mm hm oh and that's okay cool? So uh non
apparents mentioned we had uh who is in tasha yar?

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Did we have any others? I didn't catch any others?
Oh maybe his parents Marla Astor did we see her?
We did? Huh Wow, good knowledge, Jeremy Asters. It's Wharf's
brother that he that he loves, just loves his.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Son, right, yes, brother.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Remember there was this girl, this lady that died and
she left like a twelve year old kid, and then
he had no parents and they were dead, and then
Wharf was like, I will be your brother. Like he
needed some guy to buy him like magazines and candy cigarettes.
Come on, she needs a dad. I bet she's gonna
tell Alexander too, I will be your brother. All right.

(43:29):
What about the Rajhenko's did they meant get mentioned? I
thought that they said.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Karen Law though didn't we mention her?

Speaker 9 (43:41):
She was mentioned?

Speaker 4 (43:43):
She must have been, Yeah, Alexander's mother.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
She was mentioned, and they said the grandparents. So that's
the Rashenko's.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
We did a lot of good work here.

Speaker 9 (43:57):
There was also one that didn't quite make it on
the screen. It was in the script when Riker goes
and talks about the you know, the people they've lost
and the impact WARF had. They talk about the he
talks about the fact that Duras would have ruled the empire.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
That stas Wow.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
So an unmentioned non appearance mentioned. That's what that's deep? Yeah,
any some kinds of or some sorts of Chris macgee.

Speaker 10 (44:24):
Now we're back to not having any again.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Well, Melissa, can you get a start off on the
right track by telling us what you thought of this
particular episode.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
I don't know if it's the right track. They're right stuff,
it's this was a mixed bag for me. I do
like again, I always like that Star Trek asks some
difficult questions, and there are a few here.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I do.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Enjoy Beverly Crusher. I love what Gates McFadden does with her.
I love that Beverly Crusher is so passionate about her
patience and the well being of their lives and making
sure that they thrive. However, I did not agree with

(45:20):
her choices in this episode. If you have a patient
that you're faced with, why not give them all of
the possible options and let the patient choose their own recovery,
their own step forward, their own I mean, yes, the

(45:42):
procedure that doctor Russell was posing to Wharf was risky,
but that's Wharf's risk to take. It's not Beverly Crusher's
decision to make because it's Wharf's life. So yeah, And
I do think it's interesting that they play with the

(46:06):
idea of assisted suicide, which you know, it's debatable, and
and Aaron certainly had his thoughts on this as far
as you know. He once said to me that that
we treat animals better who are terminally ill in you know,
putting them to sleep sometimes then we do humans. And

(46:32):
you know, he made his his his thoughts very clear
on whether he wanted to be a vegetable or not,
and he did not. So the right to life, you know,
is is individual to each person. Having said that, I
don't necessarily think it's fair for Wharf to put his

(46:56):
suicide on somebody else. That's not fair. If you are
going to take your own life, that's your responsibility and
no one else's. It's it's a manipulation tactic. That's not fair.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
To anyone.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
But I did like this moment at the end with
Alexander and Wharf where he comes to help his father
with recovery. So, yeah, there's a lot for things left unsaid,
I think, But yeah, that's all for now.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
The tone in your voice tells us you got a
lot of nitpicks coming, Thank you very much. No, okay,
well stay tuned for things left Okay, maybe, thanks very much,
Melissa Longo, Jason Emokin, what's up? You always have nitpicks?
What do you got for us today?

Speaker 9 (47:53):
Well, I'll save the nitpicks for later. But overall, I think,
you know, I see this upisode having sort of two
different sides to it. One is certainly those said well,
pardon the pun. Ethical questions that were raised, and there
were a number of them. Melissa certainly mentioned as a suicide.
There's issues with disabilities, there's an issue with you know,
obviously medical ethics. There's an issue with cultural beliefs and

(48:18):
how we treat them. And in a way, the episode
tries to argue both sides of the story, which you know,
which is not a bad thing, but I'm not sure
it really does any of it a lot of justice.
For me, the episode plays more on the character level.
I mean, I just enjoy when, you know, the writers
give Michael a little bit more to do, and it

(48:40):
was wonderful to see them sort of at the forefront.
And I mean the episode really has no no action
in it. It's just, you know, basically a drama episode.
I don't know, yeah, with the problem that had to
be solved, frankly, you know, too quickly. Obviously, in the
forty two minutes sort of format, you go from you're
never walking again to you know, walking in the next episode.

(49:02):
Nothing happens, not nothing like nothing happened. But I think
from that side it worked a little bit better for me. Again,
there are a lot of things here to talk about,
but I think it's gripping enough to be sitting there
and watching it for the whole length of it, which
is a lot to say, again for an episode with
no action in it. I think, you know, Star Trek

(49:23):
has certainly tackled some of these subjects, especially medical ethics,
maybe a little bit better. I think, you know, Voyagers
nothing human is a little bit more sort of on
point when it comes to something like this and what
do you you know, how do you treat medical ethics?
You know, where do you stop?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Do you.

Speaker 9 (49:43):
Take the medical knowledge you've gained, perhaps through not some
of the most ethical means, and use it the goods
of the many do they outweigh the goods of the
few or the one? I mean, that's sort of the
ultimate starture question that's been asked, you know, since almost
the very beginning. There's a lot more here to talk about,
but overall, I think it's a.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Solid episode, right, Thanks very much, Jason m oakin solid
episode from him? What do you think, Alison Leech Hide?

Speaker 11 (50:17):
So this one was in relative rotation when I was
a kid. I could not stand it as a kid
because they hurt wharf and you know, it's like like,
what are you going to do as an adult? I
like this episode more and more each time I watch
it because there is so much going on. We have
the medical ethics, we have the cultural ethics, we have

(50:40):
friendship ethics, we have ethics between a father and son.
You know, there's so much going on in this episode.
It's actually a lot to talk about. One thing I
really enjoy about it is I noticed this last watch through,
was we have women carrying this episode pretty much the

(51:01):
entire time. It's it's on the backs of Troy and
Beverly and doctor Russell and Nursagawa.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
You know, they're they're.

Speaker 11 (51:09):
Running this episode. And then we get bits with Picard
and and Riker. We see Jordie once, we see Data once,
and we see Alexander a bunch because this is who
is carrying this story. And as a parent who has
been on that table, who's been in dire medical conditions
with a four or five year old looking at you,

(51:30):
it's terrifying being there because your kid does not understand.
You know, we can talk them through this as much
as we can, but they're still looking at their parent
who isn't being their parent, and they don't know what
to do. So I want to give Brian a bunch
of kudos for that episode.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
He did a fabulous job.

Speaker 11 (51:52):
And you know, not just you know, working through the makeup,
but being a scared little kid about their dad and
wanting to help them. I thought that was wonderfully shown
and done. So that's kind of where I am in
this episode. I also want to give doctor Russell her kudos.

(52:13):
I thought she did a wonderful job of being a
competent doctor who you did not like and I acted
really well because you're just like you bother me this
entire time. Because of course we're always going to be
on Beverly's side, she's our main character, but you know,
she comes up with you know, she's got her points

(52:33):
of like no, this is why I do this, And
we know there are people who are like no, the
needs of the many will outweigh the needs of the few.
But then there's always going to be that doctor who's like,
but this is my patient right now, this is who
I'm taking care of. So yeah, there is so much
to talk about this episode that it's hard to do

(52:54):
it really really fast, but I'm going to go for
what I really liked about it is that we are
on the backs of the female cast members in this episode,
and I thought they did a great job.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Mm hmm, great stuff, Thank you very much, Alison leech Hide.
Doctor Russell comes from a long line of bad, mean
doctors and star trek. We always try against the doctor
of the week. Good stuff. Chris Garris is here out
in Southeast Texas. What's up, Chris? How you doing? What

(53:24):
do you think of this one?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
I'm doing good? Thank you.

Speaker 8 (53:29):
You know, when I realized that it was this episode
we were talking about tonight, I was not one hundred
percent sure I was gonna even join because it's it's
not one that I really like because of all the
issues it deals with, because it's one of my you know,
getting a serious injury like that is like one of
my absolute biggest, biggest fears because I do not want

(53:54):
to be in that situation where I have to anyway.
I'm not going to go any farther than that. It's
just not something that I really want to ever have
to deal with. But outside of the you know, personal
beliefs of it, they did a decent job overall of
dealing with the cultural and the medical ethics of everything. Now,

(54:16):
I was actually and I thought about this today. I
actually checked with mister Google to find out, you know,
could because it was not doctor Crusher's right whatsoever to
withhel to tell doctor Russell. She could not tell Wharf
about that experimental treatment. That is Wharf's decision. It's no

(54:39):
different than today. If someone wants to fight you know,
some sort of a cancer or whatever, that it's it's
your decision as long as you have the mental capacity
to do that. So yeah, I was not happy with that.
But on the flip side, I also didn't agree with
what doctor Russell did when they were in the tree
Shacht tree unit. That's dude, that's that that could got

(55:04):
our license pulls, I really do, so I didn't. So
again she splits that line with her She's good on
one side and then then makes, in my opinion, bad
decisions on the other. So again that was hard. But well,
I think kind of something that surprised me, and I
don't know why I surprised me, but still the card

(55:25):
was very adamant when Riker came to him talking about
you know, WARF's Warf wanting to you know, go through
the ritual suicide, and you know, Will was like, I'm
not gonna do this. I can't do this, and you
know the captain was he was like, will you don't
understand like he actually laid it out there and put

(55:46):
it in warf what how Wharf really felt that his
life was over as a klingon and he really, you know,
he really nailed that even enough to make you know,
will at least go and really dig into the the
rituals and all that after how to well honestly get

(56:07):
out of it, which I don't blame. I mean, I
don't don't ask me to do that. You never gonna
I couldn't do it. And then I did, you know,
if you want to say there was a funny part
in this episode was I did get a little bit
of a laugh there when because at the beginning of
the episode of you remember, they're talking about all those pesky,
redundant cling on organs and systems, and then she's like, huh,

(56:32):
I'm glad they had all those pesky redundant systems because
this was saved his life.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
You know.

Speaker 8 (56:38):
So again it's I can say this it's not episode that.
If I if I if it's if it's come to
a next rotation, I will probably just skip right over it,
kind of like the movie Million Dollar Baby. Either I
can't watch that one. It was great until the end,
so but overall it's it's not bad. So I think

(56:58):
everybody should watch it at least so that you can
talk about it like we're doing.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Mm hmm, great stuff. Thanks very much, Chris Garris. Let
us know in the comments below, would you skip this
episode or will you watch it? It's a toughy. Thanks
very much. Greg Kenzo is out in Hawaii. Greg, what
Hawaiians think of this episode?

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Yeah, all Hawaiians love this.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Now, I'm just.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
We I can't speak for this island. I can really
speak for myself. Ryan.

Speaker 5 (57:31):
I know you're joking, but this this is one of
the episodes that would have benefited from watching it on
TV for the first time when it came out, because
we already know the stakes.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
We already know the wharf survives, if you know what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (57:48):
Like, as I'm watching this, I'm like all these setups
like warf warf, flat Lions, and then I'm like, well,
I know, I know he survives.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
You know, I've seen him all's other episodes. He's in
Card all these other things.

Speaker 5 (58:02):
So I think watching this on TV when it came out,
knowing that Tasha yar had died, and then I try
to put myself in that place.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
I'm like, well, shoot, I honestly could.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
Have thought the wharf passed away and then like his
son like you know, he like sniffs his son or
like smells aside.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
I don't know what happened there, but he popped up right,
and uh yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:28):
So I try to put myself in that mindset instead of,
you know, knowing that everything's going to be fine, because
that's not how it was meant to be by the writers.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I agree with.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
Jason about the Voyager episode doing this one better, but
I think it took this episode to get to that place.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
They basically took all these ideas or really.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
The what I believe it's the overarching ethical question how
far are we willing to go for medical progress? And
there's this is amongst all these other ethical considerations that
Alison was talking about earlier, and there's so many different
ethical questions being thrown about, but I do think that's

(59:19):
the overarching one, how far are we willing to go
for medical progress? In that episode, we have this mad
scientist Cardassian doctor who experimented on live Bajorans, you know,
to advance and then they were going to use his whatever,
so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
But anyway, so this was a great episode for setting
that up. I think.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
Without this there wouldn't have been that. Without posing these questions,
we would never have got there. Yeah, it asks important
questions on euthanasia, auspice, people living with disabilities. And it
also PROPHESI prophesied three D printing, and not only that,
biological three D printing, which actually is not out yet.

(01:00:09):
I don't think it's well, you can do it with
stem cells, but not to that extent.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
I think that is the future. That's what's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Yeah, thanks everybody, great stuff, Thanks very much, greg Also,
three D printing burgers. That'll be cool, you know, because
then is that is that vegan or is it not vegan?
If it's like made out of actual animal protein, then
it gets really confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
It's not that's like replicator. We're almost that's almost replicator. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah, things left unsaid. I shouldn't have said that, that's
the whole thing. Thanks very much, Gregory Kenzo. All right,
dark lord Chris McGee, how you doing today? What do
you think of this one?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Really?

Speaker 10 (01:00:56):
Well, thank you for asking. I have always said that
bottom all episodes are often really good because due to
their limited budgets, the other aspects like writing and acting
and such have to step up to sort of compensate,
and this one's no exception. I like the episode's exploration
of the topic of assisted suicide, and I agree with

(01:01:16):
most everyone here about doctor Russell I feel is too
eager for her own and especially her patients good, especially
that trioge thne. This episode reminds me of a video
game I played not too long ago, and I'll try
to keep this anecdote short. The game is called Life
Is Strange by Doptnot Entertainment. For those who haven't played it,

(01:01:39):
don't worry. This is only a minor spoiler. I promise.
There is a moment in the game where your best
friend asks you to help her commit suicide. She's quadriplegic
at the time, and her parents won't be able to
continue paying for her care, and you are forced to
choose to honor her request or not, and you cannot

(01:02:02):
get out of it. And I'll say it, if you
choose not to, she will ask you to leave and
never speak to her again. I swear that game, especially
that moment. There are others two in the game absolutely
wrecked me. It made me realize that I could never
make such a choice in life. But back to the episode,

(01:02:27):
Worf's recovery with his body's redundancies seemed almost as convenient
as the one in Operation Annihilate from the original series,
where without spoiling much, Spock had a redundancy that allowed
him to recover from a permanent condition. And at the end,

(01:02:47):
when doctor Russell said to doctor Crusher, you just can't
admit that it was my research that made this possible,
I thought Crusher showed remarkable restraint in not punching her
for her arrogance. A memorable quote, though, I'll go ahead
jump to, is Troy saying to Morph, maybe it's time

(01:03:11):
you stopped lying here worrying about your honor and started
thinking about someone else, like your son.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Excellent, and the wharf was like, I have a son,
Thank you very much. Chris McGee, good stuff. All right,
the Matt boardman is here. What's up, dude? What'd you
think of this one?

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
So? Okay? This one?

Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
Watching it this time had a little bit different meaning
for me, And I'll tell you why. For something. You
may know that my mother is Canadian and my grandmother
moved over to Canada as a little girl after World
War Two from Germany and during you know, when my

(01:03:55):
mom was born and everything. She was a single mother,
and she ended up working for a company which we
won't name, but it was during a time in which
there were not as many safety regulations regarding chemicals and
the handling of those chemicals, and so later on in
her life she developed a lot of health problems because
of that, to the point in which she was terminally ill,

(01:04:20):
and in twenty nineteen she chose to have medically assisted
a medical assistance in dying, which is what the Canadian
law is called.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
And so.

Speaker 7 (01:04:36):
Watching this episode, it was very interesting because we watched,
I watched many of the things that our family went
through as she made that decision. But you know, as
Melissa talked about, you know, sometimes we're more compassionate towards
our animals than we are people. And I remember, for me,

(01:04:58):
I was just like, we were so mad because we
felt it was suggested by one of the medical staff
up there. How dare they you know, you know, they
could make her comfortable whatever, But my dad went up
there and he said, she has no quality of life.
You know, there was there was no quality of life,
and then we had no idea how long she was
going to be with us, and so that was the

(01:05:19):
decisions that she made. And I very distinctly remember being
at work and getting a text from my mom, your
grandmother wants to talk to you, and it was her
on a Skype call saying goodbye. And you know, what
a what a a very surreal experience to have, you know,

(01:05:40):
as I mean, I have a tender heart, I do,
but but when it comes to death, I don't. Typically
I don't typically cry because you know, I don't know,
just my beliefs tell me that that's not the end
for us, you know. But in this case that it
was very harrowing for me because it was it was

(01:06:02):
a goodbye. It wasn't it just like, oh, well, you know,
I'll see you in a couple of months or whatever.
But it was an actual goodbye, like I'm checking out,
you know, I'm taking the taking the A train straight
up to you know, to the nether world.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:06:17):
And so when I watched this, you know, to watch
all the things that everybody the I don't want to
say mental gymnastics, but but but at the end of it,
I I appreciated the card's voice of reason through all
of it, because ultimately it was Wharf's choice what his

(01:06:40):
life was. You know, we had Riker who was just like,
this is BS man, you're my friend. I don't and
I understand I would be the same way. And then
I also did not like the fact that he wanted
to put it on Alexander, because I mean, come on,
that kid already has trauma. It's no wonder by the
time we see him in DS nine he's so messed
up and locking himself in closets because no, he was
just traumatized as a kid. Anyway, I'm going on, and

(01:07:03):
I'm rambling, but just to say that that this, while
this is not one of my favorite episodes growing you know,
as it was first on and what times that it
would would appear, it had a different meaning for me
this time, and and and and I appreciate I think
more the approach that they took to it, and and

(01:07:26):
the angles and examining the feelings that everybody around Wharf
would have, you know, with that decision.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Yeah, great stuff, Thank you very much. The Matt Boardman.
All right, Jake's final take, if you're ready for it,
any final thoughts on this Episodees Frock.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yeah, you know, watching this episode, I didn't want Wref
to kill himself until I saw his feet and then
my mind, James, Yeah, I was like, what is going on?
He doesn't need any close ups on those feet. Poor Alexander.

(01:08:19):
You know, you hear about people who say they grew
up without hearing their father say I love you or
be affectionate towards them, And I feel like Alexander is
getting that kind of upbringing where it's like, you know,
the most affection I've seen him see was in the
hallway with Troy for like five seconds, you know, and
it's like, what a tough life for this kid, And

(01:08:42):
I really feel bad for him. You know, He's just
had a tough thing and his grandparents are too old
to deal with him. His mom tragically died, his dad
doesn't have the tools to be a parent, and it's
just sad for this particular kid.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
I hope he has another kind of structure or network
of people that are around him outside of what we
see on camera that help him handle being a kid
on the ship. Hey, thank god for a second opinion, huh.
I mean, if it wasn't for that if it wasn't
for the second doctor, Wharf has no options basically, you know,

(01:09:24):
that's what I tell you to go get a second opinion.
And you know, when somebody's faced with you know, terminal
illness on that degree, then yes, experimental whatever it is, like, Yeah,
I'm willing to try it. It's like, at this point,
you really don't have anything to lose. So if you're

(01:09:46):
willing to gamble with side effects or whatever, the whatever
the outcomes are, and even if it was just a
regular surgery, there's no guarantee of outcome. You know, there's
no guarantee coming out of live on just a regular surgery.
No matter anytime you're getting put to sleep, you know,
there could be outcomes that are not favorable. So everything

(01:10:08):
has a potential for side effects and bad outcomes. And
so I think if you're faced with like a dead
end decision, you're going to say, whatever, give me the
trial thing, give me the experimental thing. I'll try it.
I mean, I've got nothing to lose. I kind of
would have liked to see Wharf get more of an
amnesia then, and then I would have liked to see

(01:10:31):
him more with amnesia in this episode than with the
physical disability, I see that he dealt with it in
a completely different way. But this also lets me watching
this episode also let me know how great Aaron Eisenberg's
performance was when he had to portray being injured and

(01:10:55):
having a disability that was life altering. His portrayal was
so amazing that, you know, just it's you know, not
to put this in comparison, but it does pale in comparison,
you know, when you talk about his performance, I thought
it was miles above. But you know, clinical trials and

(01:11:20):
waiting for all of this, we just experienced that with
this whole pandemic that we all went through, and how
medication was fast tracked, you know, for the purpose of
life saving you maneuvers, so you know, we kind of
went through this already in real time. I thought the

(01:11:43):
new doctor Toby Russell did a great job as a
guest star. She was just professional enough to believe that
she was a doctor and had certain level of ethics,
because I did like the way she offered help to
doctor Crusher when she got the news that there was
a whole shipment of patients coming. She was like, you
need some help. That sounded like somebody with good intentions

(01:12:04):
and who's you know, all about trying to be a doctor.
The choices she made, however, were a little bit on
the border on the edge, you know. And what I
think the biggest thing was that what I took away,
the biggest thing I took away was when doctor Crusher
said that Starfleet had put a ban on her experiments.

(01:12:27):
So it was almost like they thought it wasn't ethical itself.
There must have been something that Starfleet in itself, and
there and their discovery of the materials and listening and
analyzing all of the facts that she must have presented
for why she wanted a clinical trial of this particular date,

(01:12:49):
they must have found something there that they thought was
not suitable or legitimate. And so that that lends credibility
to doctor Crusher's statement more so that you know what
I mean, the fact that she just didn't give suggest
the idea, more so that it was being banned from
the top level of the Federation basically, you know, like

(01:13:12):
all doctors or whatever the Medical Board decides. So I
think that's led a little bit more credibility to her opposition.
And then I guess the last thing I want to
say is I liked Chip Chalmers having that scene with
Riker and Picard where they were in that room kind

(01:13:35):
of going over the daily stuff, but they were obviously
both pensive about how Wharf was doing and if he
would make it out of the surgery. And there was
some really great close ups, like super close ups used
in that moment that were like, they're really accentuated the
fact that both of those guys were in their head

(01:13:56):
about warp situations. So I thought that was also a
great job by Chip Chalmers to highlight that point with
the shot and that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
Woh yeah, he goes and that's it. He just drops
like fifty bombs on us and that's no big deal.
That was awesome. Thanks very much, all right, Thank you
so much to the Matt Boardman, Chris McGhee, Greg Kenzo,
Chris Garris out in Texas, Allison Leech Hide, Jason m Oaken,

(01:14:27):
Melissa Longo for myself, Siak, Melissa, and mister Aaron Eisenberg
the aforementioned. Thank you all very much for hanging out
with us, and we'll see you next time. Until then,
always remember the seventh rule.

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Do No Harm | TNG 5.16, "Ethics" | T7R #342

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Do No Harm | TNG 5.16, "Ethics" | T7R #342