From The Top | TNG 5.18, "Cause And Effect" | T7R #344 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Captain Picard's at Adell cured a lot of sleepless nights
with his steamed milk. The Stellar Dynamics Lab decided they
need to install new modules, and Wharf is experiencing nib pul.
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Seventh Rule with sarrok Loften.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello. Hello, my name is Ryan T.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Huskin. Today we are doing a review of Star Trek
The Next Generation Season five, episode eighteen, Cause and Effect.
We're doing a review of Star Trek The Next Generation
Season five, episode eighteen, Cause and Effect. We're doing a
review of Star Trek. Okay, all right, Brady Braga directed

(00:45):
by Jonathan Fraakes. More on that in a moment. This
was March twenty first, nineteen ninety two. Where were you
and how are you today? Sarak?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm great, I'm doing good. Is March what? March thirty? Okay?
Are you?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Oh? Sorry, March twenty first, nineteen twenty two.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, okay, all right, I like to write the dates down.
All right, it's okay, good, I'm doing great, awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
So I have some uh, by the way, this is
Frasier here Grave, I have some. He's also Beast in
the X Men movies. I have some some pretty strong
edgy opinions on this episode because I have seen it before,
but I would like to know sirok lofton this is

(01:39):
your first time watching this episode, what did you think.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Overall? You know, I thought it was entertaining. I thought
it was kind of, you know, compelling. Obviously I wanted
to figure out how they were going to solve the riddle.
It started off with the shortest open I think I've
seen so far on Next Generation, which was about I
don't know if that opened was about thirty seconds. You know,

(02:10):
it just played out the last clip. You know, there's
thirty second seconds, Yeah, thirty six seconds left. What about this?
Let's do this? Okay, use the tractor beat and then
explosion and so and that was the end of the
opening credits. And then you know, so you're like, oh, wow,
this is you know, obviously we're going we're going to

(02:31):
cut when we cut back in, we're cutting back into
the moment before that, right, So I thought it'd set
up a nice little time loop scenario. Very interesting for me.
I did like, for example, when I was a kid
going up, there was a movie for all of you
that are not old enough to know but it was
called groundhog Day and it was starring Bill Murray.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Oh Man, one of the best scripts ever written, so
well produced, directed, acted, Bilmer. I mean, yeah, that's one
of the best movies of all time.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
That one one of the best movies of all time. Yeah,
you know, you just want to have a good laugh
and just be stuck in this story. Groundhog Day, I
thought by Bill Murray was one of my favorite movies
grown up as a kid. I thought he was spent
phenomenal in that movie. And this episode has elements of

(03:24):
that that I think, you know, we're curious for me
to see what the star Trek spin was going to
be on that subject.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Totally groundhog Day, I believe, written and directed by Harold Ramis,
who was Egon in Ghostbusters and also wrote and directed Ghostbusters.
Maybe co written, but I think I think that's right. Okay,
so good knowledge, thank you. I think. But Ghostbusters, I
think is the most quotable movie of all time. Ghostbusters

(03:52):
and Friday, those two I just if I if I
don't say Ghostbusters and Friday, then I only say like
half the things I'm going to see.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
What's the number one Ghostbusters quote you think out there?

Speaker 1 (04:03):
I think probably people say she slimed me, you know that,
that's that's a movie. That that's a that's a quote.
People say a lot or so she's a dog, you know,
or I don't know. There's just you can go on forever. Honestly,
that's a big twinkie by Winston Z. Moore. Yeah, as

(04:25):
long as as long as there's a steady paycheck in it,
I'll believe in anything you say.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
That's okay, okay, And obviously Friday is that man, it's Friday.
You ain't got you ain't got.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
To do the one and you ain't got to.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Do you ain't guy to do.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
How you gonna gonna get fired on your day off?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Your day off?

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, so yeah, some miss Parker lines that we can't repeat.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
But anyway, so yes, Ghostbusters Friday, rewind back to Groundhog
Day and again back one more step to cause me.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
We're right back here. Here we go. So here's what
I'd like to say about cause and effect this movie
or this episode.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
This is.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek of all time.
Very likely top ten, maybe top five, and it's back
in the day the ray before Netflix, the way I
would watch Star Trek is. I would go into the
local like comic shop and a mall or something, and

(05:32):
I would see their selection of VHS tapes and you
would have to buy an episode, an episode for nineteen
ninety nine, one episode nineteen ninety nine. I bought maybe
twenty or forty of them over the years, and this
was definitely one of them. And I'm telling you another

(05:55):
thing that's great about this episode is, anytime I want
to introduce one to Star Trek, this is the episode
I use because you get it right away and like
you like to say, it could be a Twilight Zone episode.
And so anytime I've ever introduced Star Trek to somebody
that's never seen it, I play this episode. They love it,

(06:17):
they get it, it makes sense, and they want more.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, I mean I can see that. And there were
elements of this episode that were really good. I thought,
Jonathan Frakes, you know, I didn't I didn't catch who
directed it, you know, director to same here before and
while I was watching it, so I didn't know who
directed it until you just said it. And from my observation,

(06:45):
I thought there was some really good choices made in
the directing style to pull in close ups to Beverly
Crusher when she was having them those weird moments like, hey,
this doesn't feel right. Those close ups were great filming
her cutting the plant in different angles, one from this

(07:06):
side of the room, one from the other side. It
just gave a bit enough of the variation of a
repeat script, right because we're gonna hear the same lines
almost and because he us different angles each time, it
made it feel different a little bit, which is good visually.

(07:27):
There were moments, for example, even in the final scene
where they explode, the way he covered it, Jonathan Fras
covered it. He did different angles, different shots each time,
one time from the back looking at the screen, one
time as a close up on Data's face while it
was happening, you know, and so just really clever, and

(07:49):
the delivery was slightly different by the actors if you
notice that as well, during the scenes of repeating. You know,
at first, I was like, are they just going to
reuse the same.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Shot like one of those clip shows?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, it's gonna be a clip show. Did this episode
only take two days to film? But they made it
look like it took seven, you know, But no they did.
They weren't lazy about that, right, they first of all,
Brandon Braga credit to him. You know, rarely we see
a script that doesn't have anybody else's name on it totally,

(08:24):
so you know, Brandon Braga wrote this script. He did
no teleplay, no story by credits. It's written by one name.
That's it. And so I I that stood out to
me as well, like, Oh, Brandon Broga, like, you know,
this must be the kind of moment for him when
I feel like, maybe, you know, he really kind of

(08:47):
got his recognition as Oh, this guy is really good
at what he does. I don't know, I don't know
that he had a script before this that was as
good as this one is and by solely by him,
But this seems like to me a full display of
how good a writer he is.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Totally agree. So I didn't pay attention to who wrote
and or directed this. Maybe I knew, maybe I'd forgotten,
you know, I just kind of dove into it. I've
probably seen it twenty times, and when it was towards

(09:30):
the end, it was maybe like two thirds of the
way through the episode, I was like, I have got
to know who directed this. I've got to know this
because I kept being impressed, you know, like I told myself,
all right, Ryan, just enjoy this episode because I hadn't
seen it in a long time. But you're going to
always notice something new every time, and this time what
I noticed by far was the directing. I was like,

(09:54):
oh my god, these these shots and these choices the
directors making it and when to do the close up
and just all of these things. There was one close
up on Riker I don't remember exactly where I put
in my notes. It was a fantastic where suddenly it's
just like his right on his face and he says
something like you're gonna call my bluff or something, you know,

(10:14):
whatever it was, and it's just like this beautiful like
close up right at the right time, with.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
The right facial expressions to match it. As an actor,
so both he's on both sides of that camera doing
exceptional work.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
And then I finally looked. I was like, okay, let
me just pause check on IMBB and I was like,
oh my god, it's Jonathan Frakes. This is what a
brilliant director, especially considering that he was still pretty new
to it at that time. Just a plus directing, I
thought on his part.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
And yeah, to add to that, like I said, I
like the bedroom scene shots with Doctor Crusher. It felt
like he was exploring that bedroom each way, each time
in a different way. So it was like, you know,
we saw a table wasn't featured before when she walked
over to the glass to a different table. He covered
the plant on different sides of the plant so that

(11:08):
it didn't look like we were seeing the same shot
over it again. And the shot also in the Cards
Quarters when he's reading the book and kind of has
a revelation like am I reading the same thing again?
Like that shot from far away, you know. I like
the fact that he didn't do close ups. He kind
of did a real wide far away shot and it

(11:30):
looked beautiful. I mean it looked like it looked just
exotic enough where it's like a weird kind of dream
so you know what I mean, just a tinge of that,
but not over the top where it's like, oh, this
is clearly a flashback or or a dream sequence.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
So I liked the choices he made in this.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and I thought that he did set up those
slightly off shots or of off putting camera movements, not
super disconcerting, but just enough to where it feels a
little weird, because that's putting us in the mood of
the characters. The characters are feeling like something is slightly off,

(12:17):
but they're not really sure. Maybe they didn't have a
good night's sleep. Beverly heard voices. Picard's like, I feel
like I read this thing before. You know, there's just
a little there's a little fuzziness, a slight uneasiness. And
I thought that that his directing choices really showed that
and it put us in that mood. I mean, it

(12:39):
just it was just so good. And to Brandon Braga's credit,
totally agree. It's amazing he was able to do that
with no credited feedback. I'm sure there was some kind
of feedback and whatever. But like the scene where Picard
is flipping through the pages, a good writer knows he does.
You don't have to have a dialogue. He doesn't have

(13:01):
to say anything he's already mentioned earlier in the script,
you know, come to think of it, I felt like
I had read some of those paragraphs before, and then
fifteen minutes later we see a scene where he's kind
of flipping through and we know exactly what he's doing.
He's going, wait, what the heck, it's so good there.
Everything pays off. I just thought the writing and directing
were fantastic.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yeah, and let me give another payoff and have a
tip of the hat to Brandon Brago when he takes
us for a twist in the third act of this
and that is what we expect to see the A
seven to six queen, yes, par queens as the audience.
He's already taken us along, so we're like, oh, I

(13:45):
know what's going to happen here. Yeah, now we can
do yeah, right right, And so now we're just waiting
for a variation on that. You know who's going to
react to it. And he takes us for a loop
when he's like, you know, three queens, three ten's. You know,
you're looking at the hand and you're like, everybody has

(14:05):
three of the kind, you know, and it doesn't make sense.
Now all of a sudden, you don't figure it out,
Like you're like, wait a second. I thought I had
to figure it out. I thought we were going to
go into the next loop cycle, and you know, everybody
was going to be that farther ahead in the loop
cycles so that they would be able to break the chain. Instead,

(14:28):
here we are were I get this whole different, Like
every math is different. Everybody's like, what the hell, we
don't even know what's going on. There's a lot of
threes all of a sudden, threes everywhere, threes, threes, and
we're like, I'm like, what do threes have to do
with it? So you're now we're as the audience trying
to figure out threes. What you know, what are the
threes for? You know what I mean? And just such

(14:48):
a great like that kind of moment brought me back
to the Usual Suspects because it had a little bit
one of my favorite things Usual Suspects is the scene
where you know he's you realize that Sosa is a
figment of his imagination that he's pulling from all of
the things on the wall. And that same moment of

(15:12):
realization felt like was being what was happening with data
when he was having the realization what the threes all meant? Right,
it was like threes, threes, threes, twenty four hundred different threes,
all these threes, and it's only something that he would
figure out right as a as a whatever whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
And then he realized he perceives that he must have
been the one subconsciously inadvertently doing it. And it's so
funny when they say when he says, I assure you
the card is sufficiently randomized, but come to find out
later on that like he is actually without even realizing it,
he's counting cars. He knows where everything is, and he's

(15:52):
putting things. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yes, yeah, so that was. That was like, you know,
the SOSA and usual suspects for me, where data has
constructed this whole thing, you know, while we're trying to
figure it out, like how did he come up with it?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
So I remember what this one close up was that
I really liked was in the poker game. He said,
Beverly's kind of acting weird. You know this maybe middle
of the episode, she's kind of acting weird, and she's like, oh,
you know, they say what's wrong. She says, oh, nothing,
but we know what's what's going on. And then Riker

(16:33):
says like, okay, i'll see you're twenty and i'll raise you.
And then right when he says fifty, it's like boom,
close up he goes fifty and he just kind of
stares and like realize He's like, you're gonna call my
bluff aren't you. And it's just so good because it's
like fifty like because right when that close up hits,
it shows he's having the realization at the same time

(16:54):
as we're having the realization that he I mean, it's
just a great it's like a bam as like a
powerful hit you over the head kind of delivery. And
it was so smart. I thought that was great. Another
one again in the poker.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Room.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I don't know if it was that time they did
poker or the next cycle, but there was a moment
where the camera is just kind of panning behind Riker's head,
kind of just kind of looking at everybody, but kind
of slowly and weirdly and almost almost a little off kilter,
you know.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Just great stuff, great stuff, even war, you know, I
am experiencing nud Paul. It's funny that the Klingons have
a name for the same things that we have a
name for, right a deja vu? Right? And is that
that is that that's a French thing.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, it means already seen, already seen or already saw.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Oh really, yeah, thank you for that deja voo French
word already see already saw.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, Well it's two words, dejah means already and V
it's actually V you can say, which means you know, seen.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Okay. And you know, this brings up an interesting topic
about this exact subject that I kind of want to
extend further into. Maybe we can do another side. I
don't understand with that, but it's a pretty interesting subject.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
And and that is about dejavvu itself. And you know,
because I recently had this conversation with my friend about
what he thought deja vu was, so what we've all
kind of experienced it to some degree right where you're
You're just in this moment, I feel like you're in

(18:51):
at this place, but like I've never been here before,
but I feel like I've been here before.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Not only someone's just you're watching TV and your friend
is saying something. You're like, I've experienced this moment before.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yes, yes, And so what is your philosophy or yes,
or you know, hypothesis about what that could possibly be?

Speaker 1 (19:17):
You know, I don't know. I don't know, and I've
had you know, I don't know what's normal for DejaVu,
but I've had it plenty of times, and each time
it's it's almost like a dream where it's like you
think the dreams a lot cooler than it is. Like
if you ever try to tell somebody a dream, they're like, oh, okay,
that's cool anyway past the salt, right, But you're like, no,

(19:38):
it was really same thing with DejaVu. You're like, whoa man,
you it's like a spiritual awakening. You're like, you're like, dude, wait, wait, wait,
stop shopping. I think I think I just had DejaVu.
And they're like, okay, I don't care, change the channel,
like you know. To that, it's like yeah, but it's
really funny because to us, it's like this spiritual moment. Yes,

(20:00):
I will say one thing that I that has happened
to me too. That's weird is I've dreamt of places
that I've never been before, and then a few years
later see that place for the first time and I'd
never been there. I didn't know where it was. I'm
just going by and I'm like, this fence. I saw
this fence in a dream seven years ago. Like that's

(20:22):
that's kind of similar. But anyway, what's your theory on dejavuh.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, first of all, just to acknowledge what you said
about the kind of feeling that you get as an
individual experiencing it, but it doesn't exactly you know, translate
to everybody else being that enthusiastic about it, right, which
is actually something they point out, and this episode is
relevant to Doctor Crusher saying both of us, like both

(20:51):
of us having deja vu. Yeah, that doesn't happen, right,
So it would be weird if you were to say, yo,
I'm feeling this moment. You know, this is deja vu,
and somebody else while you say that, said yes, yes
I am too, and I've never met you before. It
is weird, like are you like? You know, then the
two of you are sharing in the common experience as

(21:12):
opposed to being just you know, an inside out looking
out at the world's kind of perspective. So that's the
first thing said. But the thing that I think is
interesting to me as a philosophy, and this is just
speculation because I don't have an answer, really, you know,
I don't know the answer. I don't think anybody does.
But I think there are hypotheses that you can possibly make,

(21:39):
and one of those is that it's to some degree
or another, you are experiencing something for the set again, right,
and so then if you are experiencing something again, if
we if that is the truth behind it, then that
means there is some kind of playback that's happening at

(22:07):
some point in the What we perceive as reality is
perhaps a playback of a reality that is already transpired, right,
And we all, yeah, and we only recognize it in
those moments when we're like when we're when we perceive
it as the viewer of the playback from externally, you know, like, well,

(22:28):
this is weird. I've seen this again. I've seen this before,
So you'd have to step outside of your consciousness kind
of to have seen it before, or it's tied to
a memory. So in that way, I think that I
think we're recording devices human beings, right, Oh, interesting, I

(22:49):
think human beings are recording devices that record a life
or lifetime worth of experience in through their senses, and
that goes onto a hard drive somewhere in your brain.
And perhaps that hard drive system is not necessarily deleted,

(23:12):
so it could it could technically remain in some prepartuity states,
so that as it plays back, like we experience, we
just we just keep reliving life over again in this
replayback cycle of whatever we've experienced on a hard drive.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, it's nuts because it's not like we with Deja Vous.
It's not like we're experiencing something similar where we're like, whoa, dude,
I remember sitting here with you and having this conversation
about ice cream. It's like you are saying the exact words.

(23:54):
I remember this exact sentence coming out of your mouth.
It's a duplicate, whereas like in the case of this episode,
there would be sometimes it would be the exact same line.
Sometimes there's a variation of the line because from when
they started, everything could kind of play out a little
bit differently based on Beverly reacting to whatever. So that's

(24:17):
what's crazy about deja Vu is that it's exactly the
same thing. And yeah, bringing it back to this episode,
I did love exactly that how Roe Laren's line was identical,
but Beverly Crusher and Jordie's lines were different every time

(24:40):
because they were affected by the things preceding it. In
that day, she had one memory or heard of some voices,
and that kind of changes the way things progress. And
it was really smart to decide which lines stayed the same,
which ones change slightly, which are just some of them

(25:03):
are just completely different scenes, and some of them are
the exact same line but delivered differently because now they're unsure.
All that was just perfect.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
I agree. I like the progression of it, you know,
the curiosity. I thought that doctor Crusher Gates Spaghett and
did a fantastic job of playing the curiosity and playing
the moment so well. She was really the perfect vehicle
for this story. I thought, because she had the sensitivity,

(25:37):
she had the connection with the captain, you know, to
be able to reach out to him on a personal level,
and because she's a doctor and analyzes things through her
medical background and her scientific analysis of things, he would
trust her observations in a way that might be dismissed

(25:59):
if it was Wharf saying, right, if Wharf's like, Captain,
I'm experiencing niph pap, you know, nip.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Keep your hands off my nip pole.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Buddy, so it might not have been received the same.
I thought she was the perfect person to be able
to advance this storyline. I like the way her h
scenes and interaction with Jordi in the medical room that
also helped advance the storyline because Jordie was able to
see residents of this vibrational echo, you know, of repetition,

(26:37):
so that was a great vehicle too. She was able
to use the scientific diagnosis of his advisor, and that
also led to more you know, discovery on what was
going on. So in general, she was the perfect person
character to to be able to advance this story in
the way that it was.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
I think I agree, and we're gonna jump into our
break and then I'm gonna tell you somebody on the
other side of that coin who got jobbed pretty bad.
All right, you may guess we'll be right back on
the seventh rule. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the seventh

(27:22):
rule with Surak the game changeer. Loften, you've heard me
say that before, right yellow, All right, here are the
trivioids of the week. The Enterprise is the first Federation
vessel to chart the typhon Expanse. Lieutenant Commander Data randomizes
the card sufficiently when he shuffles. Although isn't that like,

(27:43):
shouldn't be randomize the card sufficiently? He said? Sufficiently randomized
it should be anyway. Ensign Fletcher prevented Jordi from falling
down the bottom of the warp core. The Stellar Dynamics
Lab decided they needed to install new modules. Captain Picard's
ant L cured a lot of sleepless nights with this
steamed milk. Warf is experiencing nippull. The Enterprise chronometers are

(28:08):
off by seventeen point four days, and Soyu's class ships
haven't been in service in over eighty years. All right,
so here's the person that I mean yet again, yet again.
This is an episode in which a character has some

(28:32):
sort of psychic impression or extrasensory perception, like in yesterday's
Enterprise it was Geyan Gyan was like, hmmm, I have
a psychic feeling that there's some you know. And then meanwhile,
Council Troy is just sitting there like a bump on
a log. Now we have doctor Krusher is hearing voices,

(28:55):
and it's the weirdest thing. I'm like, you, guys, This
poor lady Marina Surtis, she basically her character has one
thing where she can sense things. Now I get it,
it's different. She senses emotions. This is not emotions. Yes,
of course it works. It's fine, I get it. It's normal.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
But like.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
She that poor girl just gets nothing.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Now.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
I do think that, as you mentioned earlier, this is
kind of like a Beverly Crusher episode, and right, it
feels like it was a Beverly Crusher lead episode. And
she really looked great in it, Like they gave her
so many great close ups. You know, she looked pleasant

(29:43):
and happy, you know, when she's cutting her cutting her flowers.
She looked you know, wise and thoughtful when she's figuring
things out. So anyway, the point is I thought she
was great. I agree with you, Kate McFadden was awesome,

(30:05):
and I thought that the director's you know, and the
lighting was was perfect for her to feature her.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, and you know, one thing I liked, for example,
you know, because this with respect to her, this story
was carried by her observations essentially, so you know, when
I looked at her, for example, in the bedroom scenes,
a lot of the stuff happened in the bedroom scenes

(30:32):
with that glass that was shattering, and I like to
see though. I like that she had those kinds of
subtle moments where she realized, Okay, I'm trying to distort
the way things would have been, right, So she puts
the scissors down when she's about to cut the flowers,

(30:53):
and then she takes the glass and she realizes, oh,
I think this glass is going to get knocked over, right,
so she moves it to a different location and knocks
it over anyway, right. Brilliant yea, which which makes you
think that's another brilliant kind of it's a misdirection from

(31:15):
Brandon Braga, right, It's like, oh, maybe this the glass
has something to do with it, but the glass doesn't.
But it was great here she is trying to change
the outcome, right, which is I think, you know, which
is a natural thing, Like how do I distort the
way things are going to happen, change the outcomes? We're
not stuck in this sloop cycle. And I like that

(31:38):
she was proactive about moving the glass, about not trying
to use the sisters, about recording the audio of the voices,
because she knew the voices were going to come, so
she made the you know, a calculated move to record
the voices so that she had some audio to diagnose

(32:00):
with data. And Jordy that was great. Super Yeah. So
I definitely loved all of those things. I thought Brandon
Barber and therefore and portrayed by Gates with crusher, I
thought she hit all of the notes to poop to

(32:21):
push this story forward. And I also loved other moments too.
First of all, data having the ability to listen to
the audio and know that it's a thousand different voices
and sub file categorized summer humping, you know, yeah, exactly,

(32:42):
that's enough.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Date.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, it was like five and five recordings of uh,
what does he call it?

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Romantic conversations, Yes, some of a personal nature, and he
said some in the act of koit or five couples
engaged in romantic encounters. And p cardoes your point. Yeah,
that was really good. I think that Brandon really understood
characters because I thought that he did something really good

(33:21):
for Jordy and what he did so well for JEORDI
wasn't just like the inner ear infection you know stuff,
or the sick based stuff. It was every time they
were faced with a mystery, you know. P Card's like, hmm,
that's interesting, Beverly, Well, I wonder what that is. Jeordie

(33:41):
always had a theory, a working theory, and so he said,
for example, he goes like, you know, maybe it's something
wrong with the intercoms. I'll check that out. Or in
another scene, He's like, you know, it could be that
this thing's happening. I'll check that out. Like he kept
always coming up. It was just one line. There's a mystery,
there's problem. You come up with the theory. Now the

(34:02):
theories were wrong, but it's you know, but that's beside
the point. The point is that his character is always like, Okay,
how do I figure this out? What's what is this?
He always had a working theory and something to work towards,
which I thought was great.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
It was great, and you know, I also I liked
the moment there. Data makes me laugh, right, and he's
one of my favorite characters on this show. But when
Data's dealing out the cards, he's like, six the clubs

(34:40):
for you, three at clubs for you, Warf still no help.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
No help for the Klingon.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, he kept calling out, he kept calling out War's head.
You know, he's like, basically, you've got nothing. And I
thought that was hilarious to me. He kept rip being
uh war during the poker game, but that was making
me laugh. But yeah, I mean what it. I also

(35:11):
like the moment there, you know, because the card is ah,
he's become during this uh this you know later seasons
after they've settled into his role, he's become a lot
more I would say compassionate, because you know, when he

(35:37):
was sharing his steamed milk with Doctor Crusher, Yeah, and
he was talking about his aunt Adele or whatever, it's clear,
you know, the cure for sleeplessness and this and that.
I thought those kinds of moments show a sensitivity to him.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
There was also a moment there when a doctor Russia
asked him and said, are you experiencing any kind of
symptoms that you've done this before or something? You know
the data of the symptoms, And you can see him
kind of go through his head like it will be
I would be admitting to not being one hundred percent

(36:21):
let's say, cognizant of what you know. It's basically admitting
to a kind of a cognizant weakness if you're the
captain of the ship to saying yeah, I'm kind of
having dizziness or whatever it is. Right, So, so he
kind of considers whether he should reveal that in a
slight subtle way, and then does can be you know,

(36:43):
is it actually you know, I did feel like I
was reading this book.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
But then he says it could just be that I
read it before, you know, Like that's why, Like he
still gives like an explanation of like, well, I don't
you know, no superstitions here.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah, don't commit me to the insane asylum basically what
he's then, But yeah, I did feel like I've been
here before, this thing has happened before, whatever it is.
So what I'm just alluding to is a sensitivity that
Picards showed in this particular episode, which is well done
for for Brandon Brogo's writing of his character. There's a

(37:17):
sensitivity there that I think allows also for the other
characters to shine. You know, he's very pliable with what
are the solutions here? Yes, I think you might be right.
He's not resisting it and saying I don't believe in this,
this is you know, nonsense. You know, I don't you

(37:39):
know whatever. You know, he's not resisting it. He's actually
open to the idea that something's happening and that that
something could be done about it. And even further than that,
the sitting down with prussher having a personal moment with
her obviously in the middle of the night where she's

(38:00):
having hearing voices, you know, to take that moment out
with her. That was special to me. I like that scene,
and I also like at the at the end of
each one of these scenarios that play out, the card
always says any suggestions, which is weird, you know, but
it's it's open. It's like like, I I'm not claiming

(38:24):
to have all the answers right now, and I will.
I'm open to any suggestions, and you better hurry up
because we've got thirty seconds.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that scene a million times where
he says suggestions, decompressed me and shuttle bay, and the
data says, you know, I recommend we do a tractor
being to push the whatever out of the way. And
that's so that was such a smart twist. I remember
when I saw it the first time. Yeah, I did
exactly what you're doing, which is try to figure out
what that three is. Yeah, and you and again, it

(38:53):
was one of the first episodes I had seen. So
I feel like maybe I started watching The Next Generation
in Syndication in the fifth season because I remember one
of the first episodes I saw was that Conundrum one
where that guy was like an impostor that he was
suddenly second in command, and I wasn't sure. I was like, wait,
I haven't seen this enough to enough times to know

(39:16):
if this guy really is part of the crew or not.
This is another one of those because this was the
episode where I realized that they have these pips that
denote rank, because I didn't know that. When he says
when I just remember, when Data looks up and he
sees the three things there, I was like, oh, yeah,
what is that? And I looked around him like, oh,
some have two Captain scot four. I get it now.

(39:37):
But so this was certainly season five must have been
the first season I saw, and I thought that was
just a brilliant, super simple thing for Data to look
over see the three pips right there and be like,
I have a theory, I'm wrong, and Riker's right, let's
try it. And it worked and that.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
That was just great I did. I only got one
nitpick in this episode, you know, and I do think
it was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I have a lot, but I love it.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Well, okay, well, my biggest nitpick on this episode is
the character they did it, and I feel like Rolerin
could have had a larger role lot in this episode.
It would be nice that they first of all, let's say,

(40:32):
for example, invite her to one of those poker games.
I don't know if she's into it or not, but
you know, to see her at the table would be nice.
It would mean that they're trying to welcome or welcome
her in. She could be difficult about it or whatever,
or maybe she's a good poker player and is better
than that more, you know, but something to that degree
would be nice. I would have liked to see her
sitting at the book table. Also would have liked to

(40:54):
see her in some capacity recognizing the dejavre as well. Yeah,
just memorial that's a little tiny something. It will be
more inclusive on on full use of the cast. They
did a little bit for everybody in this. She did

(41:15):
have lines, so she wasn't invisible. But you know, she's
a smart person, she's tough, and I think that she
would also have instincts that are valuable to the problem solve.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's interesting, you know, one of my nitpicks. And this
is just because when you knock out one episode a
week for six months out of the year, you're you know,
nothing's going to be perfect, you know, And I think
this is a beautiful episode, no matter what even though
I have all these nitpicks and here's one of them,

(41:53):
so like me nitpicking it. It's funny because I think, like,
this is one of the best episodes I've ever seen,
yet I have a million nitpicks. I'm like, I'm still like,
it doesn't matter, it's just over. You know, you gotta
get I gotta get by those because it's so good.
One is when Beverly Crusher goes, wait, hang on, Nurse

(42:13):
Ogawa is Lieutenant Commander la Forge in sick Bay and
Ogawa says, uh no, I haven't seen him today, and
then he walks and she says, wait, he just got here, right.
I'm thinking if I was Nurse Ogawa and somebody said, hey,
is Commander la Forge there, like nah, oh no, actually

(42:37):
he's right here, Like you wouldn't think it was so weird.
You would just think maybe she's meeting him there I'm expecting,
you know, like the fact that she was like, wait
a second, he just walked again, Like nobody would act
that way. No, nobody would be oh my god, you're

(42:58):
never gonna believe. They'd be like, whoa weird, Actually he
just walked in, or or yeah he is, are you
expecting him, you wouldn't think it was so weird. Now,
I don't know if that was an actor's choice. I
don't know if that was director's choice. I don't know
if that was written into the script. Nurse Ogawa has
blowed away when, you know whatever, So I don't really know.
But that's just one of the things. Every once in

(43:18):
a while I would notice that, and I'm like, would
people react really that way? But anyway, that's definitely a
nitpick on my part.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, I get that too. I you know, now that
you say that, it certainly makes sense because you would
expect that doctor Crusher knows that he's on his way
up to the Zickbad that would be your first inclination
or anything.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, Oh, she Ogawa's late for the meeting she's having
with him there or something like that, you.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Know, anything. He had an accident and he's headed up there,
and she found out about it sooner than told.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Her I'm on my way.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, so yeah, that that's a reasonable nick. It my
other nit pick, you know, because let me also qualify
my statement before hand by saying, I love this episode too,
and I think it's fantastic, But you know, nitpicks not
to take away from the episode. It's just it's our

(44:18):
own problem solving rational seniority star trek minds that will
not let certain inconsistencies or truths if they don't line up,
we find where the inconsistencies are. And that's just just
a natural kind of thing for the brain to do
if it enjoys problem solving. And for me, my issue

(44:43):
was that the USS Bozeman that nobody on their ship
I was able to recognize deja vu, you.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Know, yeah, none of the they experienced it, whereas they've
been doing it the Enterprise.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It hit everybody, right, everybody on the Enterprise within seventeen days, right,
I'm seventeen Yeah, I think seventeen days. So they had
been doing it seventeen times, let's stay presumed, presumably. And
then I'm thinking, so the Boseman is one hundred years
into this repeat cycle, right, and at the very least

(45:26):
they would have noticed that that cycle has broken now
that they are able to talk to the Federation. And
you know what I'm saying, it shipped blow up, you know,
one hundred times like it did.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, like everybody on the Enterprise has this sixth sense
for wait a minute, I've done this before, whereas no
everybody on the Boseman's like, I don't know. By the way,
the USS Bozeman named after Boseman, Montana, which is the
site where the Phoenix launched in what twenty fifty three,
I think twenty sixty three and achieved first contact. So Bozeman, Montana,

(46:02):
first contact, first contact day, this ship, that's all tied together.
But we're out of time, so let's talk about the
home run of the day. Srak who gets the home
run of today?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
I'm going to give the home run. I'm going to
give a co home run victory to Brandon Braga and
Jonathan Frakes. I think the collaboration of the two of
them really brought this piece to life, and I thought
that it was like peanut Butter and Jelly. As far

(46:36):
as the script and the director of choices, I could
go with the actor too, but I think for the
most part, the lion's share, I'm going to say goes
to bron and Braga and Johny Frakes.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
I'm with you one hundred percent on that. I mean,
that's back to back home runs. That's it. That's like,
that's like when Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire used to
bat third and fourth for the in the nineties.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
I remember it.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
That's it, the Bash Brothers. That's what just Sir Henderson
would lead off man alive. That was nuts anyway, all right, Uh,
that was pretty easy. I mean those guys just really
killed it. Here are other people who kill things, but
only things, not stuff. Doctor Anne, Marie Siegel, Eve England
out in Wales, Vett Blackman to Tom t J. Jackson

(47:24):
bay On Missouri, Titus Moeller, doctor Mohammad Nora Neil o Platte,
Joe Balceeradi, Mike Go, doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent, Faith Howl,
Edward Foltz, The Matt Boardman, Chris McGee, Jake Barrett slow Down,
Ryan gry Hunger, Alison Leech Hide, Julie Menosfi, Jed Thompson,
doctor Susan F. Gruner, Glenn Iverson, Dave Gregory He's Cool,

(47:49):
Chris Sternet, Greg k Wistrom Cassandra Gerard, Chuck A, Chris Garris,
and of course Jason m oakin Free for All is
up next, every buddy, We will be right back on
the seventh rule. Hi, everybody Welcome back to the Seventh
Rill with Sarak lofton. This is the Free for All

(48:11):
with Malisse Alngo and her cool shirt. Jason m Oakin
is here with a cool poster behind him. Faith Howell
is on the bridge of the Enterprise. D chuck A
looks like he's got his Prune Juice and Chill shirt
with the guy who says fold. Alison leech Hide is here.

(48:36):
Looks like m el Cars of sorts.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Oh, I like that cat.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
The return of Doctor Stephanie Baker. She's here, Yeah, sci
Fi Sister shirt. Carrie Schwentt is wearing an Abyssinian Kiosk shirt.
That's the Cisco Kid variety cool anil Oh paulatd is
flying in front of Enterprise with a Melissa shirt. Awesome,

(49:06):
you can get that shirt. And the one Melissa is
wearing at Walking Art made by Melissa.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Chris McGee is fucked, That's what the shirt says. Everything
is okay, and the Matt Boardman is wearing his favorite
baseball shirt. The Bozeman Phoenix is in honor of the
USS Bozeman.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Oh WHOA.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Jake Cisco guesses the IMDb score.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
I'll say around probably like a eight point five.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Oh, faith knows she's like this, She's liked anybody else,
have any guesses that doesn't already know.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
About her? Nine?

Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think two. Chuck says nine, nine two. Chris McGee
says nine as well. The answer is, well, you guys
think it's really good, and you're right. It's an eight
point nine, very high. I was really happy to see that.

(50:20):
That's one of my favorite episodes ever, and I was
afraid that it was going to be like in the sevens.
I saw it point I said, all right, it's up
there with the big boys. Did we get non appearance
mentions today? I didn't catch any. Chris McGee, is it
some sort of time loop? Some kind of.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
Certainly is data before playing the audio recording at the
end of the loop, said there is evidence of some
sort of disaster aboard the Enterprise.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Nailed it well, Malise Alongo, will you please get us
started off on the right track by telling us what
you thought of this episode? Did you love it.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Well?

Speaker 5 (51:01):
On im d B I gave it a seven point
one imple what.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
I know?

Speaker 5 (51:12):
That's right. I added the point one just so you know. Aperfoles. Oh,
and we were supposed to bring snacks, so I have snacks. Oh,
these are really delicious. Yes, Sir Rock said, bring snacks

(51:33):
next time.

Speaker 7 (51:34):
So no, it was a really good episode.

Speaker 5 (51:42):
I like these kind of episodes where it's you're trying
to figure things out.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh and I have those too, Roncasm too. I hope
you try and Sir roc and love them.

Speaker 5 (51:56):
They're delicious. But yeah, no, it's a fun episode because
I like these kind of brain teasery episodes. And I
liked that they use doctor Crusher as the catalyst of

(52:18):
who are following through this story, just because I think
she's wonderful, and I think that Gates McFadden is wonderful
and she's very talented, much in the way that Marina
Sertis is very talented as well, and I just wish

(52:38):
that we got more stories like this with both of
those characters. I yeah, it was great. It was The
poker scenes were so much fun, and especially when data
is going and for the Klingon and for the kling On.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Great and.

Speaker 7 (53:06):
Oh and then the when we find the USS Bozeman. Gosh,
could you imagine what it must I can't. I can't
imagine what how I would react to find that I
had missed ninety years, ninety years, thinking it's three weeks

(53:31):
that've gone by. Nope, ninety years, it's bunkers. I don't
know what I would do. Yeah, good episode. I think
I'm all over the place right now. So take it
away and I'm going to eat my snacks.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
You've earned them for sure. Excellent, Thank you very much,
Melissa Longo. All right, Jason m Oakin, what do you
think of this episode? Do you think this is a
quintessential Star Trek episode?

Speaker 8 (54:05):
It is a quintessential Star Trek episode, absolutely is. It's
certainly different, as Melissa said, from everything else. I mean,
this is certainly not a character study piece.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
We don't learn.

Speaker 8 (54:17):
Anything about anybody, you know, maybe Doctor Crusher's questionable headdress
and maybe musical choices and the fact that Tuesday night
is Pokernight. But it's still one hell of a ride.
It is sort of a high concept science fiction episode,
maybe the best that Brandon Braga has solely written for

(54:38):
the show. And I think it is it keeps you
on the edge of you see it and you kind
of forget. This is really by only pretty much a
bottle show, with not only recycled sets, but even a
lot of recycled dialogue for obvious reasons, but it keeps
you on the edge of your see. It certainly has
a banger of a teaser, probably you know, the shortest

(55:01):
and you know, uh and the most exciting season are
up to this point and maybe through the entire Next
Generation run. And I think a lot of the credit
for what we're seeing, you know, other than obviously you know,
putting the episode together on on on the page, is
Jonathan Fraake's directing. It's probably the most dynamic episode of
the Next Generation that I've seen up to now, and

(55:21):
maybe even throughout uh, you know, the fact that you
had to shoot the same sets over and over and
over again and try to come up with different angles
or multiple cameras and what have you, it really felt fresh.
There's one particular scene where I thought they were kind
of reaching a little bit, and I'll talk about that later,
but for the most part, it was really dynamic. And
he you know, he even goes to handheld in doctor

(55:43):
Crusher's quarters toward the end Fact three, which adds, you
know a little bit of sort of this tension. There's
use of close ups, a lot of different things that
are here, so it's it's really sort of it's a
very very sort of fast ride and an absolutely wonderful episode.
It stands out for a reason. I mean, you may

(56:03):
not want to see this twenty six times a year,
but certainly as something that pops up once in a while.
It's it's a wonderful show to watch. Two thumbs up, yep, awesome.
Thank you so much. Jason m Oakin couldn't agree with
you more.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Faith Howl is like, see you, guys, I told you
season five was the best. But what'd you think of
this episode?

Speaker 9 (56:26):
Look, even Jason liked it. Okay two okay, that says
so yeah. I have absolutely nothing productive to add to
this conversation today other than boom.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
It was the best.

Speaker 9 (56:39):
I mean, it's something fun about watching a ship blow
up and getting to see it five times. And you know,
it was great too because our characters technically lost but
not really in the end, though, I'm with Melissa, I
would love to have seen more of Captain Fraser whatever

(57:00):
his name was.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
All right, Captain Fraser, it is, Thank you very much,
Faith Howell, all right, Chuck a AKA and TG fanatic?
Is this one of the episodes that made you a TG? Fanatic. Chuck.

Speaker 6 (57:18):
Well, first of all, I think I feeling that we
did this free for all before. I'm not sure. Yeah,
this is probably in my top five TNG episodes. The opening,
like Jason was saying, with the ship exploding, and then

(57:39):
going back to every commercial break I think except one
maybe the ship exploded.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I did read this.

Speaker 6 (57:48):
On it was either Wikipedia or IMDb that behind Captain
Bates and they were trying to get Curtsey ally to
portray her savac character. I said of the lady that
was in the background, but I believe it said there
was a scheduling issue and she couldn't do it. That

(58:11):
would have been really something.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
I did.

Speaker 6 (58:14):
Like the repeating scene of Doctor Crusher with the flowers
and the wine glass, and they always filmed the at
a different angle, different view, and then like two or
three different ways she was able to knock the wine
glass over every time. The poker scenes, like Malisa was saying,

(58:37):
were wonderful, especially with Wharf saying fold and then I
think it was a fifty dollars bed he didn't like,
and Data saying the klingon. They got the wonderful expression
from Michael dorn on that the episode you know, like

(58:57):
I said, I think it's in my top five episodes,
and it was wonderfully directed by Jonathan Frakes, and even
the scenes with Ryker in there with he kept on
going to the bridge and putting his foot up on
the edge of the console and taking the same position

(59:19):
every time on the bridge for the scene, and then
we'd all knew that it was his decompressing the shuttle bay,
which was the solution, but data recognize that at the end.
Such a wonderful episode. I really enjoyed seeing it again.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Definitely, Thank you so much. TG fanatic aka Chuck A
Allison Leech Hide, what is up? How are you? Would
you think of this one?

Speaker 10 (59:53):
I love this episode. It was a ton of fun.
I didn't get to see this one a bunch as
a kid. It wasn't on Send don't know why. So
I'd always seen the pictures of Kelsey Grammar on you know,
on Next Generation. I'm like, I've never seen this episode
and I got to see it as an adult, and
I'm just like, what, that's it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
There's no more Kelsey Grammar.

Speaker 10 (01:00:13):
He's like there for an entire scene. So that's like
the biggest thing because you're sitting there with the name
from the beginning, just going where's Kelsey Grammar? Where's Kelsey Grammar?
And he doesn't talk at the end, so like they
have you like on Penderhooks the entire time for Kelsey Grammar.
So I thought that was funny. But back to the
actual show is fabulous. Going through each scene repeatedly with

(01:00:37):
little changes is so much fun to watch because in
your if you're paying attention, you're going, Okay, that was
different than this last time. But if you're not paying
attention and you're watching it in first run, you're calling
up your broadcaster, like you keep restarting the show, what's
going on? Because they did that, so that's super funny.
So I truly enjoy that. I think they should listened

(01:01:00):
to Wharf when he said we should turn around, because
then what would have happened because he did say, let's
just turn around, let's just go away, let's just leave,
and then of course both Picard and Ryker say no, no,
we have to stay the course and stay in our loop.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
So but then we would have.

Speaker 10 (01:01:16):
Gotten to see Kelsey Grammar. So that's fine too. But
I thought that was funny that we're still not listening
to warf in this round two, so and he keeps
losing at at poker, so too funny. They used poker
in this as like our reset for how they're figuring out,
like oh, no, we're in a loop, which you know,

(01:01:39):
we usually just throw a poker game in in this
series to like, oh, we've got like three minutes to kill,
let's give them a poker game. But instead they used
it as a plot device, which I really really liked.
Everyone had something to do, which I really liked. Happy
to see Roe and her new haircut. I would have
liked her to be in it a little bit more
figuring stuff out, but you know, that's all right. So

(01:02:02):
it's a great episode. Love it and it's always fun
to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Absolutely, Thank you very much, Alison Leech. Hide in the
Heart of New Mexico. Doctor Stephanie Baker is here. What's up,
doctor Stephanie? What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 11 (01:02:19):
I've always liked this episode because I was a fan
of Doctor Crusher and I became a doctor and she
helped inspire me. Watching it again, I thought it was
cool that they never tried to make her sexy or
wear sexy outfits in this whole episode. If Troy had
been the main person in the episode, in those bedroom scenes,

(01:02:43):
she would have been in some neglige a instead of
Crusher with her outfit which was sexy, Like Crusher is
sexy in her own way. It doesn't have to be,
you know, the way they portrayed Troy, and so I
really appreciated that, and in a way for me, I

(01:03:07):
think I saw that possibly is a way out of
the patriarchy and misogyny that I recognized in the eighties
and nineties as a young person, that if I went
into a profession like a doctor, I could maybe rise above.
And some of that was true and some of it wasn't.
I think that the at the end of this, the

(01:03:30):
next episode should have been get the Bozeman back ninety years?

Speaker 12 (01:03:36):
How do we stay here and take them back? Instead
of whatever episode shows up? And then in things left Unsaid,
I would like to discuss what were the Bozeman people
doing for ninety years that would be fun with charts
and stuff with charts.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Wow, this is awesome, yes, doctor Stephanie Baker. All right,
Carrie Schwent aka Crafty Bear, what did you think of
this one? Cool shirt?

Speaker 13 (01:04:08):
Thank you? Yeah, this episode is fantastic And as we
all know, as a fan of Doctor Who, I've said
it before, I loved me some wibbly wobbly timey wymy shenanigans,
and this one is all kinds of Shenanigans, over and
over shenanigans. And also this episode came out was written

(01:04:29):
and produced before about a year before Groundhog Day, which
sort of became the what everybody calls this type of
type of episode of groundhog Day type episode, but this
one came.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
This one came first.

Speaker 13 (01:04:43):
Brandon Braga, who loves time time travel type episodes, wanted
to do something a little bit different and apparently came
up with this the gimmick for this episode while he
was eating a stack of pancakes apparently according to Memory Alpha,
which is just because I love pancakes too. And when
Freaks got the scrip, apparently he was annoyed. He thought

(01:05:06):
the producers were punking him, like playing a joke on him.
Several of the cast members kind of thought the same thing,
and the producers that we were worried that people would
think that it was a clip show. That's why they
wanted each loop to look a little bit different. They
didn't want to confuse people, which apparently they did anyway,
because so many people called their local radio or local

(01:05:28):
TV stations. Don't there's something wrong with your with your broadcast?
You know how to fix it? Yeah, I read that.
I just thought it was just sairical. And of course
I love Kelsey Grammer, don't. They don't really ever watch
a ton of tears in Fraser, Although I did love him,
I did love Lilith. I thought that couple was one

(01:05:48):
of the few memories or tears I have that that
I did that I did quite enjoy, although personally I
prefer him blue and furry as doctor Hank McCoy in
the X Men universe with r. Patrick Stewart. He's got
such a great voice. He pulls off that character very
very well. And I found there is we do know

(01:06:09):
what happens to the Bozeman later there's a novel coach
Ship of the Line where we find we follow them,
I guess for a little bit. And if you listen
very carefully, apparently you do hear his his voice during
the when the Borg attack Earth in for in First Contact,

(01:06:31):
you hear his voice is one of the many that
they're overhearing before retards it's okay, we're going and helping
him and yeah, oh yeah. And Bozeman, Montana is Brandon
bragas hometown. That's why he decided to name the name
the ship Bozeman. And I actually had a theory Stephanie

(01:06:51):
about the the Bozeman and the ninety plus years. I
don't think they had a time loop on their own.
I think they kind of came through the way the
Enterprise CE does at the beginning of Yesterday's Enterprise. I
think they just came straight through. They had no idea.
The Enterprise only got caught up in their time loop

(01:07:13):
because they tried to get out of the way and
it all went all went screwy. I have a fun
little YouTube link and I'm going to put in the
chat that maybe if we get a chansdering things often said,
oh show, I do love Beeves Pj's. They looked super comfy,
like Jason, not a big fan of the hair ribbon.

(01:07:34):
But she forgot to take out when she goes up
to the cards office to hang out, she puts her
uniform back on, but she forgets the hair ribbon. That
four tiny little glass. It was such a cute little glass.
I want one of those. But before I get to
the limerick, I do have a question any show at
hands anybody. I think that Guynan may have been one
of the ten who could also hear the hear the voices.

(01:07:57):
Apparently Deana wasn't, but I don't know. I think maybe
it might have been. And I think I don't know.
I've got three things behind me and three colors on
my shirt.

Speaker 10 (01:08:08):
I know.

Speaker 13 (01:08:08):
I think data got I think data got to me
with yeah, the little over zealous with with the three.
But I will finish off with with the limerick, which, Yeah,
this one wrote itself, really one of the quickest that's
ever written by it almost written by itself.

Speaker 14 (01:08:29):
M hm.

Speaker 13 (01:08:31):
I've got a feeling I've done this before. The deja
vu is too strong to ignore. I still know how
to rhyme. The work's popping in my mind. I've got
a feeling I've done this before.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Awesome, Thank you very much. Carrie Schwent aka Crafty Bear
O'Neil oh Palatte is here. What's up, a Neil? What
did you think of this episode? Yeah?

Speaker 14 (01:08:57):
I love this episode. As everyone was talking about the episode,
I think it might be my favorite TNG episode. But
I've actually heard you say it a bunch that, you know,
if somebody asks, which, Hey, I'm trying to get into
Star Trek so many shows and stuff, where do we start?
I always recommend this episode. It's a great mystery, a

(01:09:19):
lot of action, interesting, you don't really need a lot
of background. You kind of get to see all the
characters a little bit. So you get that, you get
to see beast, you know, from the next minute at
the end, so people will be like, I know that guy.
But yeah, like I think a follow up episode would
be great because like we just kind of ignore this

(01:09:42):
ship that's jumped ninety years into the future. But you know, otherwise,
it's really great and the direction is good as well.
Like I never noticed, but I've seen this episode so
many times, like how different each seat, you know, how
they're trying to make each you know, scene look interesting, right,
we're watching the same thing over over. So yeah, I
think this is a top three TNG episode.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Awesome, Thank you very much, anil O Palatte. Chris McGee,
your thoughts, what do you think of this one?

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
I like, Chuck, this is one of my top five
episodes of TNG writing, acting, cinematography, and pacing are damn
near perfect in my opinion. I love how the episode
starts with a bang pretty much literally SA teaser immediately
put you in the middle of an action pack disaster,
and the enterprise explodes before the opening credits, leaving audience

(01:10:38):
has been back in nineteen ninety two in WTF mode.
And of course, as other as I mentioned, I love
that each iteration through the loop is different enough to
keep your attention even if you've seen the episode a
dozen times, subtly at first, then more dramatically later on.
And they're not They're different, not only in their progression

(01:10:59):
of the plot, of course, but with each duplicated scene
shot from a wrangle or style, and with different line readings.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
It's just perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
I'm convinced this episode started the time loop movie genre,
which gave rise to such great films as mentioned groundholl Day,
Edge of Tomorrow, The Incident, and Happy Death Day, the
name a few. I also liked that stories primarily told
from doctor Crusher's porm of view, as Melissa, Stephanie and

(01:11:29):
others mentioned, following her from the poker game to the
sick bay visit and her bedtime routine, the ready room,
the conferenceman. Finally the bridge at the end of each loop.
I do have three special actor mentions. Last season we
had Baby Neworth in a minor role, and now we
get Fraser himself. Kelsey Grammer of course also in a

(01:11:51):
minor role. I wonder who else from that show will
show up next season. And as others have mentioned, Michael
Dorn has some great comedic timing and acting moments during
the poker scene, even with just as facial expressions and
mannerisms without speaking alive sometimes and ensign Jay can be

(01:12:14):
seen during the disaster sequence near the beginning of the episode.
For the memorable quote, it would have been too easy
to pick a line that's, you know, repeated in each loop,
So I found another one that I think of when
whenever I consider adding nutmeg to something. And that's the card,
of course, saying whenever I get insomnia, I try to
perfect the recipe.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Oh the nutmeg. Thank you very much, dark Lord, Chris McGee,
great stuff as always, vmat Boardman, you are here, You've
got a great shirt. What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Well, it's all it's a favorite episode of my favorite
Next Gen episode, actually favorite across all the Star Trek series.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
I just like that we start off on a bang. Literally,
I mean, can you imagine watching this episode for the
first time you tune in, You're like, yeah, I'm gonna
watch me some star Trek, and all of a sudden,
the enterprise blows up and then it cuts to the credits,
not the credits, but to the opening title sequence here
like wait, what right? I mean, what a cool way
to start the episode. And I just think from a

(01:13:23):
from a creative point of view, what a fun episode
this would have been to work on, like and and
to me it kind of shows like like I love
Jonathan Frakes as a director because I just I don't know,
he just I like, I like the way his mind works,
and so what a great episode for him to do

(01:13:43):
to sit with the you know, here's here's your concept, right,
but you have to do something different every time, and
I I mean I really noticed this time, like the
different things and the different camera angles, Like there was
one where they're in the they're in talking about or
there there was an overhead shot I can't remember, or
they were playing poker, if they were in the reading room,
but I was like it was within one of the

(01:14:04):
like the final loops, and I was like, oh, that's
really cool, Like it's just a fun shot like different things.
And Jason mentioned some handheld I was I was noticing
that there's they're shots that are handheld stuff, and I'm
just like, that's really cool. Like Also, Captain bateson this
is not the last time we see him in an

(01:14:25):
official Trek production. See him in season three episode one
of Lower Decks. We get a picture of him as
he helped lead a team that helped exonerate Captain Freeman right,
exonerated from the evil charges that she was accused of.

(01:14:47):
And also, I think it's it's very fitting that in
that same episode of the Lower Decks that they went
to Bozeman, Montana. You know, interesting coincidence, I think not anyway,
but I just but overall, just I love the episode.
I thought it was It was a good episode in
the way that it was shot, the pacing of it

(01:15:08):
was was great. I love a good Trek mystery, and
I don't know, just everything came together really well to
make this top episode for me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Totally totally agree. However, it's time for Jake's final take
sorock any final thoughts on this one.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Well, you know cause and effect. You've seen it once,
you've seen it seventeen times. There you go, there we go. Okay,
So I think that the warp board needs a rail
around because Jordi was going to fall into it. I mean,
can we protect me the walkway around it a little

(01:15:54):
bit better, so so guys could not just accidentally fall
into the warp corep if they get busy. I don't know,
that's just me. I don't like being at balconies of
high buildings, so I'm definitely not going to stand by
the warp core if there's no rail or something, especially
with all that shaking that the ship does. Anyways, Yeah,

(01:16:17):
I always like it when I see Data's brain. I
don't know why. But when I get to see that
little positronic brain like with the lights and circuits, you know,
I don't know, just I just think, oh, that's cool,
it'd be nice. In one episode, he doesn't, he like,
forgets to put the patch back. It just walks around like, yo, Data, seriously,

(01:16:41):
your brain is showing. But uh yeah, cover that up, man.
And I don't know. I'm gonna put this out there,
but I don't know if you guys saw that glass
of Scotch in the cards room. But it looked like
he's a heavy drinker. That that wasn't like a light class.

(01:17:02):
That's that was that was builled up. Uh, he was
reading that book. He was really going to get into
that scotch or whatever that was. But it looked like
a dark liquor to me. I'm guessing scotch. Uh. Soyos
soyu's soyu class Yeah, so used class so us means
union in Russian and it actually refers to part of

(01:17:26):
the Russian space program. I thought that's interesting they use that.
And lastly, I'll just say it looked like data hit
a buzzer beater three y right right, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
Yeah, that was good. I liked it a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
There.

Speaker 3 (01:17:43):
We appreciate that, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Great stuff. Thank you very much to the map boardman,
Chris McGee and Neil O Palatte, Kerrie Schwent, Stephanie Baker,
Alison Leech Hide Chuck a eight Howl, Jason m Oakin, Hi,
Melissa Longo for myself, Sarrocklofton, Melissa and mister Erneisberg. Thank

(01:18:09):
you all so much for hanging out with us. We
appreciate it and we hope to see you next time.
Until then, always remember the seventh Rule.

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From The Top | TNG 5.18, "Cause And Effect" | T7R #344

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From The Top | TNG 5.18, "Cause And Effect" | T7R #344