Geordi N' Ro | TNG 5.24, "The Next Phase" | T7R #352 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The first time Captain Picard worked with Jordie LaForge. He
made some offhanded remark about the shuttles efficiency, Beverly Crusher
hates making out death certificates, and Ensign Roe shoots her
phaser directly into Riker's forehead. Hello, everybody, Welcome to the
Seventh Rule with sarrock Clafton. Good stuff. Hello, my name

(00:20):
is Ryan T. Huskin. Today we are doing a review
of Star Trek the Next Generation Season five, episode twenty four,
Where does the Time Go The Next Phase? Written by
Ronald D. Moore, directed by David Carson. This was May sixteenth,
nineteen ninety two. Where were you and how are you today?

(00:42):
Sarrock Clofton.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Joined, great glad to be alive here in the flesh
not even phased.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Orlo Sarroq watched that episode unphased exactly. Everybody, Please make
sure to like this video, subscribe to the channel, hit
the bell icon for notifications. That's very important, and especially
if you want to become a patron, go to patreon
dot com, slash the Seventh Rule and join this awesome community.

(01:12):
We'd love to have you, so, sorockloften here, let me
frame this thing a little bit for you like a
DP would do. I remember this episode. It again is
another one of these episodes that was most memorable and

(01:32):
ingrained into my youth. You know, I really feel like
the first time I watched Star Trek Next Generation was
season five reruns, because clearly these season five episodes are really,
you know, ingrained in my head. But this is your
first time ever watching this episode, I believe, what did
you think of it?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well? You know, when the episode started, I look for
the writers always because I want to write down who
wrote the episode. And to my pleasant surprise, this is
a Ronald D.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Moore episode and a non cling on episode for once.
He's always writing those cling on.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Episodes, and a non you know, no other person credited.
I just think it's Ron Moore and that's it. So
we get his vision, we get his view. I'm sure
there's probably some edits here and there that people are
not credited with suggestions or tailoring stuff, but for the
most part, this is the majority of Ron moore creation.

(02:37):
And I thought, Okay, this is going to be good
because I have a lot of respect for Ron Moore,
and you know, he always gives you a lot of
quality writing. You know, it's going to be thought out.
It's going to be you know, it's going to be
in the vein of Star Trek in my opinion, And

(02:58):
what I mean by that is in this particular episode,
what I like about it is the fact that the
Romulans basically are introduced in the beginning. Right from the
opening scene. We get the distress call, We get rollerin
questioning Riiker on the decision whether to go there unarmed,

(03:21):
you know, all of those things, and so my antenna
were up, my suspicion was raised. I was like, row,
I was thinking, what the hell, we need somebody to
have a facer, you know, we can't trust these guys.
And so all of those kinds of things are set
in the background. You know, as you begin to watch
the episode, you start to have questions of like what

(03:42):
kind of trap are they walking into? Essentially, and then
when you see that there is actual destruction on the ship,
that people are in panic mode, that the captain is dead,
you know, it starts to be interesting. You start to say, Okay,
all right, well it's not what I thought it was.
This is not the same kind of a setup trap
that I thought. It was a different kind of setup trap,

(04:04):
and let's try to figure that out, and so I
was along for the ride. I think Star Trek is
at its best when they do these kinds of warring
faction storylines. I think it's just really good to see
the political maneuvering, to see the gamesmanship, to see, you know,

(04:29):
how the plot develops when it comes between the Federation
and Starfleet. And you can name anybody outside that either
we have beef with or have sensitive relationships with, or
you know, things are on shaky ground, you know, or
sometimes we're actually in their favor, but there's still beef,
you know, with the case of the Bajorans, you know,

(04:51):
you see Starfleet stepping in on behalf of the Bajorans,
but yet there's still resistance there because they're distrustful of
the Federal. So in general, when you deal with diplomacy
and the Federation, that's when I think Star Trek is
at its best. And so I like to see those episodes.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Me too, And that's totally you know, Ron Moore's Wheelhouse,
and that's totally Deep Space nine later years Wheelhouse, and
for me, I love to see that kind of stuff.
That's why my favorite board game is a game called Diplomacy.
And it takes place basically in nineteen oh one, and

(05:32):
it's supposed to be the events that lead up to
World War One. It's all these different countries within Europe,
and it's all just about who teams up with who,
who backstabs what you know, Like, it's all about these
different factions in different countries and the way you maneuver
and the way you talk to each other and the
way you strategize gives you more power. And this is

(05:54):
what the Romulents are all about. That's what the Dominion
Wars are all about. That's you know, the kind of
Stu that I love, and that's Ronaldy Moore all over
the place. Now, I will say I have more nitpicks
for this episode than maybe any other episode ever. There

(06:15):
are so many. I mean, first of all.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
You have to suspend belief on some things, right.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
But first of all, when Jordie and Roe are going
to go transport to the Romulin ship and there's the
two of them and they say, oh, well, give you
your phasers whatever. Then cut to Romulin ship and there's
four of them that transport. There's Riker there, Wharf's there too,

(06:41):
and I'm like, wait, I was under the impression that
just Jordi and Roe were going by themselves. We saw
nothing that had anything to do with Warf or Riker,
like Wharf.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I don't know that Wharf was in the room, but
I did see Riker there because there was that exchange.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
He was there, but he was not going on the
transporter pad with him. He was sitting there going.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Hey, I don't think I saw him. I think I
saw Riker get on the transport. Wharf.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I can't in the scene, man, yeah, Wharf.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
I cannot recall, but I can recall Riker stepping on
the transporter pad and what looked to be like a
phaser on his hip. So I was thinking, what a tricorder.
It must have been a trick quarder, but it looked
for my eye instantly thought it was a phaser for
for a second, and I thought, didn't just say that

(07:34):
we couldn't bring phasers? Right? So, but so Riker was
on board. I cannot vouch for Wharf. I don't know
where he came in that scene. He just appeared, but uh,
you know, for all intents and purposes, you know, you know,
I think I know what your biggest nitpick is going.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
To be oh this is good stuff. Well, okay, so
for the record, yeah, I actually love this episode. I
think it's so frickin' good because we finally get what
Riker's been wanting, a deep dive into Roe Laren in
a way. I mean, we've gotten to know her better

(08:16):
in other episodes, but this was one that was centered
on Jordie and Roe, and I really like that, and
I like their relationship, and I feel like in a
previous relationship or in a previous episode, they worked well
together as well, because I remember writing in my notes
gn R, you know, Jordi and Roe, I just do shorthand,
and I'm like, ah, guns and Rows is cool. I

(08:38):
like this crew, you know. So now Jordi and Roe
are g and R to me, so I'm like looking
for them all the way. But I just really like
when we get to know these other characters a little
bit and give Roe a little bit more, give Guynan
some more, give Chief O'Brien some more, more on that
in a moment, you know, things like that. So for
the record, my nitpicks notwithstanding, Yeah, I love this episode.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
I love this episode too, and and and I think,
you know, even my my whatever, I'm going to say,
is that I think is the leading nidpick. But it's
just a it's a it's a silly science thing that
you know, people will watch things just think, oh that's
how would that happen?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I think it might be the same as mine. Let's
hear it.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I mean, it's a basic science thing. And and and
I'm going to preface this by saying I do love
this episode, and I would. I mean, I love that episode.
And my nidpick is just it's it's just the problem
solver scientific mind of my of the way I analyze
things through the scientific method and say, hey, is that possible?

(09:44):
Is that in the law of physics? Is that within
the law possibilities.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
In universe two? Because that's also a caveat, like sometimes
you say, hey, this wouldn't happen, and they go, it's
but also klingons don't exist laser B. But it's like,
but yes, but in universe we've accepted klingons and lasers
and whatever exist. But it has not been established that

(10:09):
what's the nippi.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
And the nippick is that I'm for me at least
that they were able to walk through things and how
is the floor holding them?

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Thank you that like that punched me in the mouth.
When I first watched this aid, I was like, why
are they not floating? How how can they walk through walls?
But their feet are hitting the ground and I'm hearing
footsteps to boot I'm here when they walk away.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
And I'm sure there is a scientific way that somebody
smarter than me, like doctor Mohamma Noor, would be able
to express some kind of relativity of gravity on even
even if they had some mass, some degree of mass,
that gravity would be able to hold them down to
some degree.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
But yeah, but it would hold them down to the
center of wherever the gravitational pull is. That's not the floor,
Like there's no Yeah, I know, I know, I know,
I know, I know we're.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Gonna must What made it worse is when they pushed
the romulant through the wall and he floated out into space.
And I'm thinking, yeah, well then you would sink through
the bottom of the floor and float it out into
space too, like what's holding you there? And so yes,
I mean that's a nitpick and you have to suspend

(11:38):
a little bit of whatever your conventional belief system is.
I don't know how the computer systems work on the Enterprise.
I don't know how the gravity is aligned in that
particular ship and how it's parameters are set for. I
don't know that they have any mass. If they're both
cloaked and phased out as they say, I don't know

(12:00):
if there's any mass involved with that. I mean, there's
a lot of things. I let that go because the
story is good exactly, but there were things I wanted
a little bit more of. And I'll tell you what.
They kept leaving hanging open this ro Larrence question about
what Ryker's thoughts are about her, and they kept it open,

(12:22):
and they kept it open, and they kept it open.
I thought, Okay, eventually, it's going to be a moment
when we get to see it, and I wanted to
see it. I wanted to see that moment. And it
would have been a perfect opportunity, in my opinion, to
have a counselor Troy, who is the counselor they're dealing
with loss here. This is this is two of their

(12:45):
very regular stable crew members that were very comfortable familiar
with so to see counselor Troy counseling would be great,
and to have a heart to heart moment with Riker, like,
you know, you know, tell me, I can see that
you're a tens riker, you know, just tell me how
you feel and this and that. Yeah, all of that
kind of stuff, And it would have been a perfect

(13:07):
moment for him to open up about it, you know
a little bit more about how he felt about the loss,
you know. And so those those were the kind of
I think missed opportunities, both for the for the chance
to use Troy a little bit more in this episode,
because I think Troy should have been used as a

(13:27):
somebody who's helping people deal with this loss. We just
lost two very important people. And then also have that
converce that one on one because we know of Troy
and Riker's history and you know, the complicated kind of
love triangle or whatever there is between him and everybody
else in Troy. And then you know, that would have

(13:50):
been talked about a little bit in the scene. It
would have been nice. But for the most part, I
mean it had it had the Mulant aspect, which I
thought was fantastic. I like that it had, and you know,
they kind of gained my trust a little bit when
the guy said I'm just a doctor, you know, the

(14:10):
captain's dead and yeah, you know, I'm uh, you know,
you can do whatever you want. You can take that
piece and take it to the Yeah I know, yeah yeah,
Like what do I know? I don't know. Just fake
whatever you got to fix, just help me out. And
so it looked like they were vulnerable and looked like
they were actually involved in some kind of mess, you know,
and they needed actual help. So I thought that part

(14:32):
was convincing to me because I did initially say, oh,
here we go walking into.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
A trap, right, But this is the beautiful writing of
Ronald D. Moore, as you're saying, like he knows, he
knows the fans are gonna immediately suspect foul play. So
how do I get them to not suspect foul play
so that this twist at the end does work?

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yes, And that worked for me too. And you know,
so I said, Rolren says this is a bad yea.
And then the moment there where Riker checks or excuse me,
I didn't hear what you said, you know, you knowing
damnitely heard what what you said, right, But it's one
of those moments, you know, where he gets to be

(15:13):
where you get to see the tension between the two.
I love the tension between Rollerin and Riker. I think
it's healthy, it's beautiful, you know. And so that moment
of tension where he's like, excuse me, you know, say
that again and she's like, uh, you know, never mind,
it was a nice moment. And so, you know, I

(15:34):
like this episode. It's very well written. And I really
you know, besides that big physics of debate or you know,
point that we have of contention, other than that, I
liked this episode. I thought it was I thought it
was really good.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Let me ask you this, Uhrock, what do you think
Right was going to say at her funeral? Because clearly
it was going to be more than just like, hey,
it was nice having a a George. She was a
good pilot. You know, there's there's some kind of personal

(16:15):
feeling that was bubbling up or going to come out.
What do you think it was.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think he was going to reveal that, you know,
he had some deeper feelings for her other than what
people knew as their professional relationship. And I think that
she was concerned about that being the narrative. To be

(16:47):
honest with you, it didn't seem like she was saying
you know, like eagerly anticipating what he was going to
say in a positive way. It was more like what
are you going to say? Like like are you what
are you going to tell them? Like? What are you
going to talk about? You know? It's like there's some
things that I don't maybe want you to talk about. Yeah,

(17:11):
because they hooked up and they kind of made it
be known that.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
You leave that and they'll leave that behind. They only
did it because they were out of their minds or you.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Know, yes, yes, And so I think she's like, like,
you know, are you going to be like out here
running around saying stuff that you know, I don't really
necessarily want out there? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
You know, see that This is how I read it,
and I think yours has a lot of validity, but
I read it a little differently, or maybe more more
likely a combination of the two, which is that whatever
additional feelings Riker has for Rowe but refuses to admit
it and instead bears down hard on her, if you

(18:02):
know what I'm saying, and she I believe that she
shares similar feelings for her for him, but refuses to
tell him. It's kind of like those things where like
these two very stubborn, tough people both are refusing to
admit that they, you know, whether they like each other
romantically or whether they just admit that they actually have

(18:23):
respect for each other. That happens a lot too, you know,
And so I viewed it as like she really wants
to know, like she doesn't want everybody in the world
to know, Like to your point, she doesn't want, but
she wants to. So she's equally petrified that he's gonna
say something she doesn't want out there, but also very curious,

(18:46):
like is he finally gonna you know, is he gonna
admit this thing that he refuses to admit to me?
Or you know, It's kind of like, if you really
like somebody but it hasn't been said, you really want
to know if that person's going to say it or

(19:06):
admit it, or if you're just imagining things, or you know,
like you really if it's somebody you don't like, and
then you don't really care if they admit they like,
you're like, Okay, that's uncomfortable or whatever. But if it's
somebody you like, you really want to know, like how
do you feel, what do you think? What's going on?
You know, and again again, it doesn't have to be romantic.
It could be disrespect or friendship. But I think that,

(19:30):
you know, and we all want to know too. We're like, yeah,
tell us what's what's going on, because then maybe she'll
admit to Jordy thinking that she's dead. She'll admit to
Jordie like you know, I felt the same way about him,
And at the end of the episode, she could be like,
don't say anything, Jordy, or you really will be dead.
So you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah, that's a good one. But yeah, I can see
where you're what you're saying, and I do sense some
elements of her curiosity, and but it was it was
a way almost like I felt, I'm going to find

(20:14):
this information out, whatever it is. Right. Let's say he
does reveal that in a stage that I can't do
anything about it, like this is like I'm dead. She
believes she's.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Dead, right, yeah, which is great.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, right, so you know you're dead, and now you're
going to find out that you could have been romantically
on another level with somebody, you know what I mean.
So I think there's an aspect of that too, right,
So it's like almost a frustration, like what what what

(20:47):
are you going to say? Like, what do you you know? Now?
I gotta find out.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
That's it's beautiful, it's great and and and you also
touched upon the fact that she thinks she's dead, which
I think makes it even better that she she's dead.
She's the religious type, she's but jorn Jeordie's the scientist.
He's like, dude, we're not dead. You really think you know?
So that's another great you know combination. That's another another

(21:12):
great dichotomy.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
The only other person that would be great for that
would be Wharf, right if it was Jordi and Wharf,
because Wharf is also very religious or whatever. But I
thought it was really funny the way Jordie says there's
no way we're dead, and she's like, yeah, yeah, we're dead.
He's like, you think you think I'm blind in death? Dude.

(21:36):
I thought, first of all, that's a great way to
look at it. No pun intended, but like, can you
imagine how rude that would be if someone like say,
has chronic back pain and they die and they wake
up and they go well at least and they stand.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Up, they're like, ah, my back's killing met what even
in snowbocore my back's killing me or like and I
got a dave to still are you joking?

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Like you know and I'm actually ninety eight still like
I'm not going I don't go back to like twenty
five and like party.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
Like it would be so rude if like you died
and you die in the same way, you know, like
you're missing limbs, you're you got chronic back pain and
toe fungus.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
What a.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Terrible Yeah, I did rewind that moment there He's say,
what do you think I'm a blind ghost with clothes.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well, the clothes I can understand.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, Jordy wants to walk around. Yeah, he in his birthdays,
you know, looking at looking at everything. So that's funny.
But yeah, I did like that. I thought it was great.
I liked the the two different approaches that they took,
you know, I mean, in one sense, you would not
know the difference, like how do you know the difference?

(22:56):
You know?

Speaker 6 (22:57):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
I thought he was just using logic. And by the way,
what another really thing that I loved about this. I
like watching data and Jordy work together to solve like
problem solved, and this was like them working together but not.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
It was so good though, because we're like rooting for
Data for Jordy. He's like, come on, Data, put it together.
We're like, come on, you can do it, Data.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
So yeah, it was so good to see them, you know,
in the thing and he's like, yeah, what is that
And he's looking over his shoulder and they're like, you know,
he's he's like, oh, when I walk through this, you're
picking it up there. Oh. Oh, just like the the
two of them figuring it out without actually being in
the same you know dimension, let's say. At the same time.

(23:44):
I thought that was really clever writing. It was great.
I told you I love watching Data and Jordy because
I think they're if I had if I had an issue,
like some some kind of mechanical problems issue. I don't
think there's two better people that have than Jordian Data.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, I don't think they're Yeah, that's it. That's it,
Jordian Data and maybe one more person that we can
talk about on the other side. Because it's time for
our break, we'll be right back on. You're going to
find out who that third person is who is missing
from this episode on the seventh rule, Hi, there everybody,

(24:26):
welcome back to the seventh rule with Sirac can't phase me.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Lofton unfhasable, so please don't try to phase me.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Oh some snoop, right is that some old snap? Yeah?
It is good stuff all right. Here are the trivioids.
There are a ton of them in this one. For
some reason, a romulin vessel is facing an imminent core breach.
The pressure in the containment chamber has increased to fifteen
melecholes in the last two minutes. Ensign Row wakes up
at Section twenty three Baker near Sick Bay, Beverly. Crusher

(24:57):
hates making out death certificates. Planning and conduct a memorial
service is the duty of a best friend. Jordi wakes
up in the arboretum with a splitting headache, but Jorans
used to call spirits borjas Riker wants to say a
few things about Ensign Roe at her memorial. Even in death,
Row is intimidated by Captain Picard. That was really good.
The mouon feedback waves not showing up on any of

(25:20):
the engines displays. That's a weird one. The first time
Captain Picard worked with Jordy, he made some offhanded remark
about the shuttles efficiency engine Row ensign Row shoots her
phaser directly into Riker's forehead. You know, yeah, really quick,
that part about being intimidated by Picardy, even in death,

(25:41):
I think we've all had that where like the I
don't want to call it trauma, but it's it's, you know,
soft trauma, like whether you're afraid of a bully, or
intimidated by a parent or a teacher, or there's something
there that even when you're at a point where they
can't hurt you anymore, where they where you're not at

(26:02):
that school anymore, and blah blah blah, bah blah, whatever
it is, you're still you still have that thing. It's
kind of like how you know, at circuses. I don't
know if this is still done.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
But.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
The way they would tie a rope to a baby
elephant's foot right, stick it to a peg so that
the elephant can't get away, right then, as the years
go by, the elephant is this giant beast still being
held by this tiny rope that it could totally break,
but it doesn't know that it could break it because
as a baby, it tried a million times and could

(26:38):
never get away. So they've just accepted that this thing
is unbreakable, you know. So it's this weird, horrible psychological thing.
But anyway, it's kind of like that where you know,
she's just like, even in death, she's still intimidated by
this guy who's which I thought was a really good line.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
It was a good line. And also, you know, I
think it works in other kinds of relationships. I tell
people when they meet somebody and they're involved in, like,
you know, a dating scenario, and they get into a
lot of arguments with that person, I tell them, well,
that's going to be the nature of your relationship pretty much.

(27:15):
There's this kind of establishment of what a relationship, you know,
where the relationship would be energy wise, And so if
you're somebody that is arguing all the time, it's going
to always be arguing. It's not gonna the arguing is
not going to go away, That's what I'm saying. But
if you get along, they get along, stuff could go
also as well. So you know, it just depends on

(27:38):
the energy there. And I feel like in this particular energy,
you know, she's a subordinate. She looks at him, you know,
with respect because of you know, he's older than her.
He outreaks her. You know, he's been kind of like
a father figure, kind of role model to her in
some ways. So yeah, that makes sense to me. It
just yeah, but you mentioned earlier that you know, she

(28:03):
shot Riker in the head, and I wanted to shoot
Riker because I'm like, bro, it's a funeral and you
pick up the drumbone and start you.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Know, yep, he just grabs that bone and starts playing.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Man, leave your bone alone for a second. Yeah, she's dead.
She's dead.

Speaker 7 (28:23):
Man.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
It's not a place time to like jump in there.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
That was the theme. And I do wonder if Roe
was intimidated by Riker two at first, but then now
she's like, dude, bro, I've seen you naked. You can't
talk to me that way, you know what I mean. Like,
but he says, do you have a problem message like, oh,
it's ensign now, is it? Uh so sorry, commander anyway, Look,

(28:51):
here's the third person. If you need something figured out
that's difficult and scientific, it's data and Jordy know, for
the win forever and ever. But if you have a
third person in there, somebody that straddles two series, Chief
Miles O'Brien is that third person, not just on Deep

(29:13):
Space nine, but right here in the next generation. And
I believe that this role was written for him and
he was just not available because suddenly there's this other
transporter chief, and every time there's another transporter chief, we
think h O'Brien probably wasn't available unless it had like
one line, right, But if there's anything, it's always O'Brien,

(29:36):
especially because this was like the biggest transporter chief. Like,
suddenly the transporter chief is in main engineering with them,
she's on the main bridge with them, Suddenly she's everywhere. Clearly,
this was written for Miles O'Brien for Colomini, and he
wasn't available, so they had to create a new character
that suddenly is like everywhere and then never seen again.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, I wondered. I wondered that too. I was like,
why isn't this so Brian? And then I thought as
I was watching it, maybe because it was such a
bad accident that they didn't want to blame following from
somebody that we liked so much.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
You know, I did consider that as well. But I
did think that the actress that played the character was
really good, so I certainly didn't miss him, but I
just feel like maybe they intended it for him. Unless yeah,
unless that's true that they don't want to make it
look like he might mess up, but then he could
show up in like other scenes and clean up her mess.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, yeah, I didn't. The transporter chief didn't have
enough panic or desperation in her voice when she lost them.
She's like, I know that, My my bad.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, she goes, she goes, they're lost. Captain. I'm like,
you don't care. I'm not worried about killing two of
your friends and maybe getting fired. I don't know, like.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
It was like I really it was like, uh, She's like,
I don't know. Oh, I don't know what happened. She's like,
what did you try? Hey? Hey, hey, I got my
lunch break.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Down that ball, I cup. I got sticks right now
and they're getting warm, so I got to get to those.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, i'll let you know in fifteen minutes what the
pattern buffer says, Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
They're not gonna get any more dead, Captain. Can we
just I don't see the rush.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I really don't see the rush. There was very little
panic and very little like like, you know, I need
more power to this this give me some more techy
on beams are failing. I need seventy two perpike some
you know, just like a panic mode, you know where you're.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Like right, And I usually attribute that to somebody's only
week on set. They don't, you know, she doesn't have
the frame of reference of like is this something that
happens all the time? Is this something that you know,
are these really two very important characters like it, you know,
unless somebody's really explained to her, like you know, hang on,

(32:03):
cut hey, this is like a really big deal.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
This never see what they do is they separate your
molecules and put them in a program and then reconstruct
those molecules at a different like you know, I don't
know if they sat her down and explained that, but.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
You know, give her like the frame of reference of
like how important and big this scene really is. This
is a major deal, like some mazing.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I just needed to see a little bit more panic
in that in that moment, because there was it was
a little too cavalier, a little too casual, like oh
I lost them, I don't know, I don't know, Yeah
they were, I agree, And then and then by the
time okay, so I hate to nitpick without giving you know,

(32:47):
some credit to the good stuff that I really enjoyed
about this And one of the things I really enjoyed
was Data talking about his friendship with Jordan, and you know,
he was saying the kinds of things that you would
want your friend to see about you, you know what
I mean, And the kind of first him taking initiative

(33:10):
to say, may I have the opportunity to plan the
funeral for Jordy? Like he took the initiative and asked
for that. Here he said, I consider him to be
my best friend. So he announces him as his best
friend to the Captain and asks for the responsibility of
holding the funeral for him, and then deliberates over what

(33:32):
to say and how he feels about him and his
time with him, really doing his friendship honor. And I
thought Data showed some of the most human characteristics in
this episode by the way he was. He actually showed
the most in my opinion, sense of loss for a

(33:58):
character Buddy else and he's the android, but I felt
like his sense of loss was deeper than the Captain's,
deeper than even Riker, who was a little elusive about it.
But this is the real sense of loss I felt
came from data.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, that's a good point, and he you know, he
wants to do it justice. He says, Look, this is
what I believe my duty is to be. Here's what
I'm going to put a spin on this in a
way that I think Jordi would have liked. You know,
there are a lot of cool things. Although I will
say that Jonathan Frakes had a good moment. I believe

(34:40):
it was in the Captain's ready room with Picard and
Picard and he were talking and there was like a
close up on Picard's face and then pan over to
a close up on Riker's face and Riker had you know,
Jonathan Frakes really acted the hell out of that moment,
showing a lot of you know, and just the seriousness

(35:07):
of you know, you could just really see it.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
It's it's tough to describe, but like when it panned
over to him, I was like, Wow, that's really good.
Like just the face that he was making and how
he just seemed like really broken up and like he
has had a lot on his shoulders. It was really good.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
He definitely was a very close second place as far
as people who felt most I didn't feel that. You know,
Troy had one moment where she, you know, where Captain
Picard looks at her and says, do you do you
feel anything?

Speaker 1 (35:39):
And she just shakes her head. That was good.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
That was a good moment she delivered that. I mean,
it wasn't even any words, but it was good, like
the feeling of like I don't even feel anybody does?

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Does that mean she doesn't have any lines in this
episode that she did shake her head. I feel like
she said something.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
She said something before that, but that was a great.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Wriker, like like what she I think, Oh yeah, I
think she was like, oh, I'm so sorry that your
friend is dead. Will.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
That was.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, uh that was the original line. No, so yeah,
I thought, you know, those moments were played well, but
I really thought that Data when he's you know, he
says my best friend, those those words hit me in
a really deep way. You can tell he has a
real strong connection to Jordy and you know, watching them

(36:32):
work together again another highlight for me and I like
the moment when Jordy goes like this, He's like, he
gets excited because he basically he's in he discovers something
with Data about the trail or wherever it is, and
he goes to his combatge and he goes Jordy to

(36:55):
he goes lak Forte tow row and then he realizes
that it doesn't work right because right, so, I thought
that was really funny. It was a good moment. It
was a small little thing. He gets excited, he's with
data and then he hits his calm badge and he
says the forge endsid Row and then realizes, oh, wait
a minute, we're not on the grid. I thought that

(37:17):
was another clever moment.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah, Jordy, Jeordi had a really good moment or I
should say LeVar of acting through his visor again because
that's like the toughest thing in the world. And I
don't remember exactly what it was, but it was some
kind of surprise or you know, he had some kind

(37:40):
of reaction or some kind of acting moment that I
thought was really impressive again through the visor. I can't
find what it was, but big shout out to him
for that. You know, there was oh wait here it
is when Jeordie when right when Jordi wakes up and

(38:02):
we know what his we can guess what his story
is right away. Once we see him wake up, we know, okay,
this happened to him too, and he's walking around with
like shock and confusion without without the use of his eyes.
You know, it's just so good that he can do
that just with like his eyebrows and the way he
moves his mouth like what you know, without lines, really

(38:25):
really good. That's so hard to do. But I'll tell
you I thought of you a lot in this episode
because I was like, I bet you Sorak is liking
this episode. And there was a moment that I said,
I bet right here, Sorak is sucked into this episode.
And that moment was when Roe is watching towards the beginning,

(38:51):
Beverly and Picard talking about Jordi and Roe's deaths, and
She's watching them going like wait what and she screams.
She's like I'm not dead, you know, and then Picard
turned around and walks right through her, which is the
first time something, you know, they passed through anything, and
she's like what and then it like goes to a commercial.

(39:12):
I was like, I bet you right here. Throck sucked in,
like all right, I'm in for the ride here, you know,
like because it's it's emotional like you're getting these emotional things.
It's a Twilight Zone kind of what's going on kind
of thing.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
You know.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
It just at that point, I feel like you got
really sucked in. I feel like most people would have.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, no, I was. I mean, yeah, this didn't give
me Twilight Zone vibes. And you know, and actually I
was thinking of even partly editing some of the soundtrack
when I saw because I thought when she was reaching
for the stuff on the desk, it was like, can't

(39:52):
touch this?

Speaker 1 (39:55):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah? Get that. It's funny how mc hammer has made
so many debuts on our Star Trek Reviews show.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Right, because yeah, now we got to do the other one,
the original Jesus super Freak, super Freak, Right.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, I shout out to the legend, the Bay Area legend.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yes, anyway, California. Yeah, that's where I lived.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I instantly thought this was great, and you know, I
really liked the moment there, you know, where the Ramulen
was revealed to also be a cloaked, phased individual, right
because the whole time, you know, they they had him
in the foreground of the camera and they were moving

(40:51):
the camera around. By the way, shout out to David Carson,
who directed this. I thought we did a fantastic job
as well, transitioning from the ramie In ship to the
ship to also all of the phase work and going
through stuff. I thought it.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Looked me too, a plus. But yeah, as you were saying,
we kind of get a sense of like, what what's
with this guy? Why is this guy in the foreground,
Why is he looking so suspicious? Why are we being
led to believe that we need to watch this guy?

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Right?

Speaker 1 (41:21):
We just yeah, just from the camera shots.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Just from the camera shots, and I was like, he
must be in charge, right, because right, because the other
two come and walked together and they said, make sure
the enterprise does this and do this, and they have
to charge their engines up and when they leave, they'll
blow up. And they walk away and he's on the
you know, he's got the face. And so my point
is he looked like the main captain or whoever was

(41:46):
in charge of the Rodulin operation. No real backstory on
how he got phased. Was he an undercover agent? I mean,
because imagine if this guy has the if the Rodulins
have this capability, okay, and they already have a guy
who's cloaked. The only thing they would need now is

(42:09):
to be able to have the ability to decloak him,
because he would have he would have unlimited access to
information and nobody would know because he'd be going around
walking through walls and just learning all the secrets of
the Starfleet and Federation and and and and if he's
able to be decloaked, then he can relay the information back.

(42:32):
Otherwise they don't know how to can't communicate with.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Right, right, you know, there were so many you know,
we're already on.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
So I thought I thought this guy would be wanting
to be decloaked himself, you know what I mean? Maybe
he was. I thought this guy stuck in this for good?

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Is how wrong?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Right? Right? You know, So there wasn't much backstory there
because I'm thinking when I first see that he is
one of the cloaked individuals, I'm thinking, maybe he wants
to like join in with them and lit just so
he can find out how to solve this problem, because
he's been cloaked for who knows how long? Right, So, yeah,
I thought that was a lot there.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, he could have They could have taken that a
lot of ways. He could have also been their key
to unlocking the mystery. He could be like, Hey, I've
been working on this for days. There's this and that,
but I can't figure this out. And then Jordi goes, oh,
I know, but you know, there are a lot of
ways they could have taken that. It was a little
surprising there, but I will say that we're running a
little on time. But there were some things where this

(43:33):
episode had really good moments, and these really good moments
were a great combination of writing, directing, and acting. One
of those was when Roe comes into the bridge and
basically says goodbye to the bridge, you know, without saying
a word. She walks in and she just kind of
looks around, you know, she touches her old seat, she

(43:54):
touches her console. She kind of says goodbye. But I'm like,
she's saying goodbye to a bunch of extra is because
none of the main guys are there. But it was
still like a beautiful moment that really worked and we
understood exactly how she was feeling. And then the other
good moments were you know, of course at the end
when they're in ten forward, and the first one where

(44:19):
right where Picard and Wharf was a Picard and wharf. Yeah,
Piccard and Data first see them just for like half
a flash, right, and then Jordie's like, Data, it's me,
I'm over here, can you We're here, We're here. I
don't know why, but that was just such a good moment,
like that frantic like come on, you know. And then
and then at the end when they actually do get

(44:40):
phased in and they they do see them and Data
saves a day, like it really actually made me very happy.
And it was such a great combination of writing, directing,
and acting, everybody pulling their own weight to make these
like really magical, memorable moments that affect you emotionally, which
is rare. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
I was effected too, uh in that moment there, I
was cheering on Data. I was feeling the same way
Jeordie was feeling, like, come on, Data, you can figure
it out.

Speaker 8 (45:11):
He did it.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
He just did the sweep of the the what did
he said the anions? He says, increase the anions by
six thousand, you know, parts per million or whatever it was.
I was like, it's the anions, Data, you know what
it is. You figure figure it out. So yes, I
did feel a sense of satisfaction when it all came

(45:33):
together in that moment.

Speaker 8 (45:35):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
You know, it was great to having the using the
disruptor to create a big enough blast to get you know,
piece of attention. All of those things were really good.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Right And also you know Ricarte or Riker was so sad,
he said, who's cutting anions in here? You know, because
but it's time for our home run of the episode?
Srock lofton, who gets this one? That's a toughie.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, it's a toughie. It's a tough one. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
It really is it?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Really, there's no it's hard because there's a lot of
people really good in this episode. I'm going to give
it to ron Moore, Ronald D. Moore, he just wrote
a really fantastic episode. Keept me interested. I know, there's
twenty has love to go around for everybody. You got
to just pick somebody, And I'm going to give it
to run More.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, especially because he did it on his own mostly,
you know obviously as you know in the writer's room,
you're right, they all just kind of chipped in a
little bit and maybe rewrite some stuff. Who knows. But
for me, I think it's LeVar and Michelle Forbes, just
because I was just rooting for them. I loved them.

(46:50):
When I look back, hadn't seen this episode in twenty years.
When I look back and think about this episode, I
think of the two of them and then them touching,
the having that moment where they first touch and they're
they're happy, and they then Jordie's stuff in his face
at the end. It's so funny, it's so great, it's beautiful,
and there's such different people, great acting home runs for them.

(47:11):
If I can, if I'm allowed to do two, here
are some people more than two that we'd like to
say thank you two. Doctor Anne Marie Siegel, Eve England
out in Wales, ty Vet Blackman, Tom t. J. Jackson
Bay Out in Missouri, Titus Muller, doctor Mohammad Nora niel
O Palatte, Joe Balcearadi, Mike gu doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent,
Faith Howl, Edward Folds aka Cruman Guy, The Matt Boardman,
Chris McGee, Jake Barrett, Henry Unger, Allison Leech, Hi, Julie Manosfi,

(47:35):
Jed Thompson, doctor Susan Bie Gruner, Glenn Iverson, Dave gregor Ree,
Chris Sterne, Greg k Wickstrom, Cassandra G. Chuck A, Chris Garris,
Mark zat kof Lamayah Lancaster, Cool Town, Sean mouch Amiram Mizzney,
and of course Jason m Oakin, who's got some thoughts
on this. Stick around everybody. We've got the free for
All up next, and we will be right back on

(47:58):
the seventh Rule. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the seventh
Rule with sarrock lofton. This is the free for all
with Melissa a Longo.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Also we have Jason m okin Kel, Supriezeady it's not
really pronounced that way. Uh. Chuck A is the TNG fanatic.

Speaker 9 (48:20):
Hi there.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Carrie Schwent always has the awesomest background that's Romulin and
a cool neutral z own shirt. Alison leech Hide has
her favorite baseball team, the shekhar Selts. Mark Zuttkoff hates
that shirt, but he loves TNG. Chris Garris is here,
He's got a collar, he's dressed up.

Speaker 6 (48:42):
Yes. Hello.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Chris McGee also is here. He's got his Ukraine flag.
As always, He's the dark Lord and the Matt Boardman says,
I want to wear my be kind shirt too. Jake
Cisco guesses the IMDb.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Score probably like around eight, maybe like a seventy nine,
seventy nine, maybe even an eight point zero.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Does anybody else have any guesses that doesn't already know?

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah, I'm gonna do eight point five?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Eight?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Really so we're between eight and eight five? Everybody is? Uh, Melissa?
Are they even in the right ballpark?

Speaker 10 (49:37):
One person got it right on the nose?

Speaker 6 (49:40):
Who was that?

Speaker 10 (49:42):
It was eight point three?

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Eight point three?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Good job, Chris McGee. It was Chris McGee, All right,
good stuff. Everybody was very close though. Did we get
any non appearance mentions? I didn't catch any of this time? Okay,
guess not? What about some kind of or some sorts

(50:08):
of seems like this episode's right for it.

Speaker 11 (50:11):
And you would be correct. LaForge hit him both. He
first went. When Roe tells him that they're dead, he says,
is that some kind of joke? Right, and then shortly
afterwards said, what are you saying? That we're some sort
of spirits? So he got one of each.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Very good? All right, Melissa, Please get a start off
on the right track by giving us some kind of
thoughts of yours.

Speaker 12 (50:37):
Okay, Well, I have some kind of thoughts about this episode,
and that is, I had a really nice time watching
this episode. It was fun and I particularly loved Jordie's
line when he said, are you saying up some blind
ghosts with clothes? It's cut to crack up during the life,

(51:06):
and I kept repeating it over and.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Over and over again.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
It's funny, it's funny.

Speaker 10 (51:13):
It's really funny. And the way he said it was hilarious.
But anyway, I think.

Speaker 12 (51:20):
Rowe and Jordie work really well together.

Speaker 10 (51:26):
They have a really good, I don't.

Speaker 13 (51:29):
Know, they good chemistry.

Speaker 10 (51:31):
They have a good way of speaking to each other
with respect, and that they listen to each other, and yeah,
it's really good. I enjoyed watching them. I enjoyed Roe
in this episode. I thought Michelle Forbes did an outstanding
job of contemplating whether.

Speaker 13 (51:51):
She contemplating her beliefs in the afterlife. And I like
the mbulance stuff too.

Speaker 10 (52:02):
They're always treacherous and but I like that I feel.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Like they're.

Speaker 10 (52:12):
They drop the ball again on Troy because I thought
she could probably be useful in this episode, given that
they weren't dead and that she could probably sense them
if since their presence. But and Jordie. Jordie's he's so cute.

Speaker 13 (52:34):
He's on a cutie THI.

Speaker 10 (52:38):
He's a really good guy and I like that guy
so much, and I like that he's best friends with Data,
and I do have some.

Speaker 13 (52:48):
Nitpicks that I have questions.

Speaker 10 (52:52):
About on the other side, but overall, I enjoyed this
episode very much.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Great stuff. Thanks very much, Melissa Longa. That is a
good point. I've personally never seen a ghost with clothes on,
and also I'm sure that's how Beverly prefers it.

Speaker 7 (53:12):
You really put some clothes on when you see a ghost.

Speaker 14 (53:14):
That would be right.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Jason Emokin is here. Have you seen any ghosts with
clothes on? And what do you think of this episode? Yes?

Speaker 15 (53:25):
And yes, strange as it is. Yeah, the episode moves
along pretty fast. I mean Melisa said that it's it's
kind of a romp if you will. It has certain
leaps of v logic, and we can talk about a
lot of that later. Why they don't float through the
decks is an interesting question, and how they breath the
air as well, But you know, we'll put that, you know,

(53:45):
we'll put that one aside.

Speaker 14 (53:48):
It's just, you know, it's I think It's a.

Speaker 15 (53:50):
Very well written script by Ron Moore, and a lot
of it has to do with the actual the actual
dialogue the characters, you know, the way they communicate, you know,
the actual interaction between the characters. And it also helps
that the actress, you know, the regulars have been added
for so many years now, they're so comfortable with their
characters and it just comes over very very naturally. And

(54:11):
Michelle Forbes is great at what she does, and there's
just it's certainly a fun watch. I think it was
pretty well directed by David Carson. If you look at
the first shot on the Romulan Show, I did a
double ticket's virtually a duplicate of what he did on
the Essays Enterprise on a Damaged Enterprise, it's virtually the
same shot.

Speaker 14 (54:32):
I had to go look it up.

Speaker 15 (54:34):
It is kind of uncanny, so you can recognize his style.
But again, things move along pretty quickly. It's exciting, it's fun,
and yeah, there's a lot more to say, and I'll
say that for later.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Awesome, Thank you very much, Jason m Oakin. Definitely some
nitpicks to be had later, that's for sure. Chuck A
is the a TG fanatic. What do you think of
this one.

Speaker 9 (55:03):
I really loved this episode. Jordie and Roe had such chemistry.
It was a really well written episode. I don't know
if anybody caught it, but the Romulan who played Verrell
was Susannah Thompson, and she wound up playing and rejoined

(55:26):
the DS nine episode with Dax, and then she played
three episodes. I believe it was in Star Trek Voyager
as the Boy Queen, and she had a really really
good actress. She has a lot of acting credits. I

(55:46):
really enjoyed the very last scene where Jordie is eating
for an hour and the smiles on Roe's face was
really wonderful, and she was talking about her beliefs and
about out, you know, being dead and she thought she
was dead. Also, the other scene that I particularly liked

(56:09):
too was the ten forward scene where they're trying to
h h be visual to everybody, and then when they
finally are visual, we got all the the hugs from
the crew and smiles all around. It was a very
good scene. And Brent Spiner was also really excellent in

(56:31):
the episode as always, uh trying to figure out what
was going on with the cloak. He didn't know at
the time. It was cloaking and all the uh setting
was a chief Rosmer I think her name was. They
were trying to get the the anions I think they
called the Anion sweep was anions that was really well

(56:55):
done too. Really enjoyed the episode. I thought it was
really one of the better ones. Uh, I will not
miss it. When they showed an on syndication around Paramount
plus mm.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Hmm, great stuff. Yeah, what's her name, like Brossman.

Speaker 6 (57:11):
Or something like that, something like that.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Ross Rossmer, Brossmer Rosmer. Yeah, thank you very much. TG
fanatic a ka chuck a. Great stuff. Carrie Schwent, coolest
background in town. What do you think of this one?

Speaker 8 (57:31):
I love this one. I love all kinds of ghost
story type episodes. Yeah, we'll leave that there. But as
long as you don't think you hard. I think about
the ghost mechanics, like Jason was pointing out, and like
my husband loves to point out every time we watch
it anything evolving ghosts and they're walking through walking through

(57:54):
the walls, he has to point out, why don't they
fall through the floor. Think about it, it's so hard.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
It's much more encurreable.

Speaker 8 (58:02):
You can just go go with the float and and
and enjoy it, and I do. I think it's fantastic. Yeah,
Roe and Geordie are are great together, are ethic great together.
And it's a whole episode of Roe, and I love Roe.
Don't really care for the headband too much, but I

(58:24):
don't hate it hate it. I think it looks I
think her hair looks better without it. But I love
I love that actress. And I love how she's sitting
in the chair in the in that the the final scene,
the one behind behind Malisa with the one leg up.
I've saund like that so many times.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
It is very comfortable.

Speaker 8 (58:44):
It's a very comfortable. And especially if you're sitting in
a chair like that for for a while, and if
you're sitting there for an hour watching watching somebody, you're
gonna want to get comfort. You're gonna want to get comfortable.
And Yeah, the guest the guest stars were great. I
I will halt a couple more things of Susanna Thompson's
that that I I also enjoy her, enjoy her for

(59:07):
in addition to being Foragers Queen Borgers Board Queen, he's
Oliver Queen's mother on the CW show Arrow That I
very very much enjoyed the whole Green Arrow t TV
TV series. And also I was reminded reminded as I
was scrolling through her IMDb that he was in a

(59:30):
season four episode called Beefees First Christmas. Have you guessed it?
Doctor Quinn Minnesota Woman, I can't. Yeah, doctor Quinn shout out, yeah,
it's it's a it's a fun it's a fun little episode.
And the other the other Romulan pleaded by Thomas Capati.

(59:51):
He is one of a handful of actors who have
been on all four of the Trex the Trek series
from that from that, from that era, and my my
favorite of of of his credits is he is in
the Voyager episode The Thought and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
I really really like that. I really liked that episode.

Speaker 8 (01:00:15):
The end, the very end of that episode especially, I
think it's the best part. But he He's Thomas is
fantastic in it. I thought he makes a great romulin.
I thought Susanna looked excellent as a as a romulin
as as well. And a fun fact that I found
when I was growing through i m dB on Beverly's computer,

(01:00:38):
when Roe was passing her hand through it, if you
pause it on that screen, it's got her at her
appointment calendar for the day, and one of her appointments
is an annual career counseling session with Commander Brandon Braga.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Oh cool, that's pretty funny.

Speaker 8 (01:00:58):
I had to really accures me to get my cell
phone cameras focusing the work, and it's a little difficult
on my talent when you pause it to see. But yep,
he's definitely on. She's got a lot of count counseling
sessions on her on her calendar. I wonder if she's
sharing duties with with Troy. Who knows. But one other,

(01:01:21):
one other bit that I that I enjoyed was Data
and Warf and Worf talking about you know, the whole
the clink. He's he's happy for a jeority. He's got
a place among the honor honor dead. I enjoyed that
little bit, and I couldn't help it reminded me of
a short scene in Revenge of the Sith with Yoda

(01:01:43):
and Anakin, and Anakin's freaking out about Padme, and Yoda's
telling him, you rejoice for for for those who transform
into the fourth More of them, do not. It's them,
do not.

Speaker 10 (01:01:55):
I think, I think.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
Warf would probably be be behind be behind that kind
of sentiment, and to work my way up to the limerick,
I can definitely relate to Rowe wanting death really to
know what Riker was going to say about her. She
keeps getting teased about it, and she keeps not finding.

Speaker 13 (01:02:13):
Out about it.

Speaker 8 (01:02:14):
Happens with me and my husband all the time. He'll
say something and then he'll go never mind, and I
have to hound him until he tells me what he said.
I I have to know, so I can definitely relate
to row in that, and that's where the inspiration for
today's limerick comes from. I still wish I knew what

(01:02:37):
you would have said if it turned out that I
really was dead.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
We did hook up.

Speaker 8 (01:02:42):
That one time that we weren't in our right mind.
I can't get the what ifs out of my head.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Saucy great stuff. Let us know in the comments below.
What do you think of ro Lareen's headband?

Speaker 10 (01:02:55):
Like it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Hate it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Think it makes you look like a rascal?

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Thanks very much. Carry Alison leech Hide is up next.
What do you think of this one? Alison?

Speaker 16 (01:03:06):
I really really enjoy this episode. I think it is
a great Jeordie episode, who is my favorite, And I
love that we don't just get to see him work
out a problem like with Roe, like they're working together,
which is great, but he's also working out on his
own with his best friend Data, even though Data can't
talk to him. And I thought how it was written

(01:03:28):
and how it was acted was really great because Jordie
is still working with Data even though Data can't hear
him or talk to him, and their friendship is so
strong that Jeordie's like, Okay, I know how you work
if I do this repeatedly like you're gonna notice this,
And I really love that. And I love the scene

(01:03:48):
with Data and Wharf when Data is asking about, hey,
i've been, you know, looking into different services for memorials
through different cultures and I don't know what to do
because this is what I've seen here, and then Warf
talking about, hey, I'm not mourning, like my friend has

(01:04:08):
gone someplace.

Speaker 10 (01:04:09):
That y'all want to go.

Speaker 16 (01:04:10):
That's really great. And the line that Data has a
describing JEORDI like gets me every time is he accepted
me for what I am, and that I have learned
is friendship. And I'm like, oh, so great so I
love that.

Speaker 7 (01:04:27):
So I do.

Speaker 16 (01:04:28):
I love this episode. It's fun, it goes by really fast.
Both Jeordie and Roe are great to follow, and yeah,
I mean it's fun and it also makes you think,
especially at the end with Roe talking about revisiting her
faith and how this near death slash death experience because

(01:04:49):
she did leave this plane of existence, so it can
make her think about what happens when I do fully
leave this plane of existence? What do I have to
look forward to or not look forward to? So I
thought they did it really well without like hitting you
over a ham with a hammer over the head, like
this is something really really tough to think about.

Speaker 10 (01:05:09):
So I enjoy it.

Speaker 16 (01:05:11):
It's one of my favorite episodes actually, So.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Yeah, great episode, great stuff, Thank you very much, Alison
Leech Hide. All right, everybody sit back, relax. It's Mark
Zutkoff's turn. What do you got for us?

Speaker 7 (01:05:25):
Well, I'm going to be the contrarian this time. This
one was never a favorite. I thought at the beginning
of the rewatch my opinion might change, but by the
end it was the same. To explain why it would
take too long, so I'll aim that and some other
thoughts for things left unsaid, unless, of course, you want
me to talk more anyway. This episode was shot brighter

(01:05:47):
than any other David Carson directed Star Trek episode I
can think of. I think Carson was better at the
darker episode. A milestone wharf brings up a security concern
when the Romulans want a computer and write listens to him.
The scene on the shuttlecraft has a truly soulful performance
from Brent Spider as Data talking to Arf about funeral

(01:06:09):
services and death rituals. Loved that scene. The scenes where
Roe and the phased Romulin are running through various crew
quarters reminded me of the scene in Ferris Bueller's Day
Off when Ferris is running across people's lawns when he's
trying to beat his sister home. It must have cost
extra to redress the quarters and higher extras, but it
was nice to see various crew members in their off hours.

(01:06:31):
The moment when the Romulin is thrown through the crew
quarter's bulkhead and into space happened so quickly that I
wasn't certain I saw it. I had to replay it
to be sure. Per Memory Alpha. This episode was originally
written for Troy and Jordie but Brannon Braga said Troy's
had enough running and jumping this year, and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Rowe does do a Bruce Lee.

Speaker 7 (01:06:53):
Like kick to the Romulan's chest, something Troy probably wouldn't
have done. Dixieland music for Jordy and Roe's funeral more
appropriate for Riker than Jordie. I think, though Jordie seemed
to appreciate it, I was not thrilled with the end
conversation between Roe and Jordi. For some reason, the two
share a hearty laugh when Jordi playfully says Roe was

(01:07:15):
taught humility. I don't think that was the natural reaction
to such a statement, even in jest. However, Jordi could
have said that Roe Laren's humility, and that's my home
pun of the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Thank you very much, Mark Zutkov, good stuff as always.
Chris Garris is here in Southeast Texas. Probably what'd you
think of this one?

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Oh, I've always liked I've really liked this episode.

Speaker 14 (01:07:47):
Because it allows you to It starts.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Off with you thinking, Okay, yes they may have actually
been killed, which obviously you're like, really, but hey, you
never know what they're doing. But you know, for me,
it's always made me think about, like, you know, what
if you were actually able to see what happens after
we pass away? You know, because you know my beliefs.
You know, you go to heaven or hell, But what

(01:08:12):
if you could actually, you know, go see all of
your loved ones before your soul goes to wherever its
eternal resting place could be. And you know, you know,
it'd just be kind of cool to see that. I
because you know, some ways I'd like to know what
people really thought about me. But you know, I will
say this, after you're done with that and making those

(01:08:33):
last visits, you just bear erase your memory because you
may not like what you hear honestly, you know, because
you may not be able to handle up for attorney.
But now on the non spiritual side, I felt like, Okay,
I think you just be cool to be able to
have a facecloak in general, just to be able to
walk through a wall you need to get somewhere, or
like Jordie was doing, if you need a troubleshoot something,

(01:08:54):
you just stick your head through the console and oh,
yeah there's a problem right there or something stuck. So yeah,
I mean I think that part is always I've always
really liked that part of the of.

Speaker 14 (01:09:06):
The movie or the episode. Romulans they're just a bunch
of jerks.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
And you just just just ignore their hails because you
know they're gonna do something stupid.

Speaker 14 (01:09:18):
They're gonna try to blow you up, and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Trying to think of everything else is for things left
un said here, man, I will say this, I was
still really surprised that they let Starfleet.

Speaker 14 (01:09:32):
Officers even on the ship in.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
General, even if they were Yeah, that that one did
kind of surprise me. Uh but yeah, again, overall, I've
always enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 14 (01:09:44):
It will be one.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
It's one that I will not skip when it comes up.
There's a lot of others, like, you know, some Alexander ones,
but you know that's just me.

Speaker 14 (01:09:55):
I know that's a touchy subject.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
But again, I enjoyed this episode, and I have, you know,
a little things for things left and said. So you
might want to join Patreon so you can hear what
we get to say.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Thanks very much. Chris Garris, who reminds us all that
if a Romulin hails, you do what Dion Warwick says,
walk on by all right? Uh, Chris Garris, the dark Lord,
what's up? I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Why? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
I know, I'm so sorry. Chris Caris, Chris McGee is
the dark Lord, Chris Garris is the Lord of Light.
What have you?

Speaker 11 (01:10:32):
This is one of my top ten episodes of the
Next Generation. I'm not sure I can put my finger
around exactly why, but I just love seeing Roe in
Laforge's team up, watching them get Picard and Data's attention
at the funeral, hoping that Data will figure it out,
then seeing the cruise reaction to them slowly appearing always
gives me such a huge feeling of relief and delight,

(01:10:55):
and Roe's excitement as they're about to become in phase
again is an infectiously. Speaking of Michelle Forbes, She's been
great in all the previous episodes we've seen her, but
I think this is the one where we really get
to see her act much she never has before. Before
she's been mostly aggressive and adversarial. Now we get to

(01:11:17):
see her go through more emotions as she grapples with
her situation, and I think she did an amazing job.
Sarah and I both enjoy scenes where Jordie is working
through a problem, puzzling it out firmly, usually having a
conversation with the computer as he does so well. We
get to see that again here when he was making

(01:11:37):
chronoton fields for data to find an engineering and discovers
that an anyon being could be used to bring himself
and rollback. Chuck mentioned that the female Romuln Verrell, who
was played by Susanna Thompson, also plays the board Queen
and several ups of the Voyager. Carrie mentioned some of
her other roles well. Sarraq might be interested to know,

(01:11:58):
if he doesn't already that she also played Dax's previous
love interest Lenara Kahn in the DS nine episode Rejoined.
I was surpriabedly, that's when I saw that. I didn't
know that. I mean, sure, we could go into nitpicks, which,
as Jason said, we'll cover in things left unsaid. But
even despite the nitpicks, I'm happy to suspend my disbelief

(01:12:20):
to just enjoy this episode. Memorable quote of which Mark
alluded to it earlier. You can teach rol Air in humility.

Speaker 14 (01:12:29):
It can do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Anything, great stuff as always, mister Chris McGee, the dark Lord.
All right, Faith Howell is here, Thank goodness, she made it.
She's on the bridge of the Enterprise d piloting this ship.
What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Uh?

Speaker 17 (01:12:44):
Okay, for reference, this is We're getting into the busiest
part of my year right here at the end of
the school year. Things are chaos and I couldn't miss
this one because this is absolutely one of my favorite episodes.
I mean, what's not to love? We get to see
Jordie shine again. I agree with some of you guys,

(01:13:05):
I do think this is definitely the best episode.

Speaker 9 (01:13:08):
For Row so far.

Speaker 17 (01:13:11):
It's just all around fun getting I mean, who doesn't
love to get to see Romulan fly out a wall
and then also kind of wonder maybe we should back
away a little so, you know, it's it's just fun
and definitely, as as Chris said, definitely never skipped this one.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Absolutely never skip it. Great one, Thank you very much.
Faith Howl. All right, the Matt boardman, have you skipped
this episode before? What do you think of it?

Speaker 6 (01:13:43):
Never? I have never skipped this episode in any of
the Gosh, I can't even tell you how many times
I've rewatched TNG. It's so much fun.

Speaker 18 (01:13:56):
It's great, you know, like it has a lot of
really cool I call him little moments like as I
was watching through this time, I was I was struck
by the moment where Data and War are sitting in
the shuttle right and Row and Jeordie are in there
with him, and it's like it seems like kind of
a throwaway moment, but they turn it into something meaningful

(01:14:16):
right there. It's like you get to see operations of
the shuttle, like they're waiting for clearance, but they take
that time to have a meaningful conversation about death and
and you know, and these views and stuff like that.
I just I don't know why, but I loved it
this time around more than I have any other time,
just because it was, like, I don't know, it seems
like it could have been a throwaway, but I really
think it's cool that, Like it makes you think, like, well,

(01:14:39):
what would happen if you were dead and you could
see what other people were doing and saying about you.
I personally, I don't want to know what anybody has
to say about me, you know, you know, I.

Speaker 6 (01:14:48):
Mean, I mean, it could be good.

Speaker 18 (01:14:50):
But like then all of a sudden, you're like, yeah,
but his nose was a little bit and when he smiled,
it was like that one tooth.

Speaker 6 (01:14:56):
Was crooked, you know, you know what I mean? But
but I.

Speaker 18 (01:15:01):
And I love the end, like I'm I'm a sucker
for gallows humor, and so that that comment by Jordi
at the end is like, I don't know, maybe it's
not such a bad thing if you could teach you
whom like that. That kind of stuff cracks me up.
But I just I don't know. I have a sick
sense of humor. So I thought that was fun. And
I also like the fact that Jordie, I mean, it

(01:15:21):
was such a typical guy move right. He's like over
there and he's just like, you know, Rose over here.
She's like, ah, crap, I just went through this experience
and I need to like contemplate it. It was almost like
Chattner after he went up into space, right, and then
he gets down and he's all of a sudden having
like this profound moment. And then you've got all the
other people over there like shaping.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:15:40):
That's Jordy. He's over there, you know, just chowing down.
Then that's what I do.

Speaker 18 (01:15:44):
I'd be like, bro, I haven't eaten, and like, however,
long I got food to eat.

Speaker 6 (01:15:47):
So anyway, it's a fun episode. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Man, good point, Thanks very much. The map board. I
think we're all like there with Jordi on that one,
though Jake's final take srock. Any final thoughts on this episode?

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah, how long did Jordie say? He hadn't eaten.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
For almost two days?

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
So where was he going to the bathroom? And would
those dumps be exposed once the anions were fully integrated
in the system? Like who cracked in the corner over here? Sorry?

Speaker 6 (01:16:28):
The only ones blowing things up?

Speaker 19 (01:16:30):
Yeah, So I don't know, it's just curiosity, but I
did look up anions, guys, and they were discovered in
the early eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
They were theoreticized in the early eighties, so at the
time of them writing this, they actually hadn't been discovered.
They weren't actually discovered until twenty twenty five years ago.
And what they are are two dimensional particles there say yeah,

(01:17:03):
it says ayon so existent predicted uh, predicted four decades ago.
They're basically particles that exist in only two dimensions, and
they're going to be fundamentally used for quantum computers in
the future. So anyons are a real thing. They weren't
big at the time of this writing, still theoretical, so

(01:17:24):
I thought that's interesting. For Star Trek again, to be
ahead of the curve on something that's fundamentally going to
change the way we do. Computers and andyons are also,
you know, been used in different nursery rhymes like if
you're happy and yon know it, clap your hands.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Wow. The writer that has to remain.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Yes, but excuse me. I thought the run through all
the quarters got a little excessive. At some point it
was making me laugh because I was like, all right,
how many different scenarios are we going to be running through?

(01:18:11):
This is almost getting comical. Now, you know you're going
to run through Picard in his underwear brushing his teeth.
You know, like how many times? How many different cabins
are we going to run through? And then and then
you know my own mind, if I have the ability
to run through walls and I'm being chased, and I

(01:18:33):
have a distance of gap by eight feet to ten
feet or more in front of the person I'm running
in front of, it would be impossible to catch me
because as I walk through, as I go through the
wall and make a turn, you wouldn't know which wall
I went through or which way I went. I would
be able to lose you unless I ran in a

(01:18:55):
straight line, which is what people do in these movies
when the car is coming down the street, they just
run right in front of it in a straight line.
And it's like, yeah, if you if you moved in
zigzags in an unpredicted, predictable way, you would totally lose
somebody running behind you. It'd be impossible. You can't see
through the walls. So I thought that was kind of,

(01:19:18):
you know, a little unbelievable for me. Uh And then
I also thought that, Yeah, I thought, where is that romulent?
I'd love to find that guy who got pushed through
the window, just floating for infinity. You know, that's a
that's a hell of way to go out. And then

(01:19:40):
one last thing I would say is I like how
Warp is always kind of like looking out for Starfley,
Like you can see that his loyalties are too starfy
because he kind of does that whispering like I don't
think we should be doing this, and Ryker agrees with
him for one the time that I can hopefully remember

(01:20:02):
war is actually listening to somebody actually listen to and
take his advice. I was happy to see that. Yeah,
and I do think it's interesting to question your beliefs
when you go through something like that. Yeah, you know,
I think everybody has a different belief system on what

(01:20:23):
happens when the after you die, and I think, you know,
it's if you get more information or if you perceive
stuff differently than you would re evaluate. So I think
that's also a natural thing to do. So I like
that as well. But yeah, I liked this episode. Thought
Ronald Wore did a great job, and I should like
David Carson's work on it too as well.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Mm hmmm, that's it for us. Everybody. Let us know
what you think in the comments section below. Uh, what
are we? We're gonna do the free for all next.
We got to say thank you from Faith, Chris Matt,
Chris Garris, Mark Zuttkoff, Alison Leech Hide, Carrie Schwent, Chuck A,

(01:21:07):
Jason m Oakin for myself, Melissa Sarraka, mister Aaron Eisenberg.
Thank you all so much for hanging out with us.
We appreciate it and we'll see you next time. What's
so funny? Melissa's you saving it for things left unsaid?
I guess we will be right back. Sorry, we won't
be back. We'll see you next time. Until then, always

(01:21:30):
remember the seventh rule

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Geordi N' Ro | TNG 5.24, "The Next Phase" | T7R #352

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Geordi N' Ro | TNG 5.24, "The Next Phase" | T7R #352