Good to See You, DS9 | TNG 6.16, "Birthright, part I" | T7R #373 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jordi loves pasta, al Firella, Warf loves liquid polymer, and
the Ferengi see the hammer as a sign of sexual prowess.
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Seventh Rule with sarrocklofton Hellolo.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
My name is Ryan T. Hoskin.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Today we're doing a review of Star Trek the Next
Generation Season six, episode sixteen, Birthright, Part one, written by
the Brandon Braga, directed by the Weinrick Colby. This was
February twentieth, nineteen ninety three. What a great year. Where

(00:38):
were you everybody? And how are you today?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Sarrack.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
I'm good. I'm good, and I was on that space
station if they were showing.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yes, you were, that's right.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
We had like the we're on like episode maybe six
or seven of watching Deep Space nine, which means you
were filming maybe nine or ten or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Is that where we were at this point?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Maybe even more depending I don't know what the turnaround
was for you guys from like filming to putting it up,
but it was probably a couple.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Of months, I would think.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
I don't know, you guys had to hammer those things
out fast, so maybe it's just a few weeks. Yeah,
all right, Uh, I know when I mentioned hammer, we're
all thinking, don't hurt them. Everybody, please like this video,
subscribe to the channel, hit the bell icon for notifications
if you're listening in. Give us a five star rating

(01:34):
and a nice review. We'd really appreciate that, and visit
us at patreon dot com. Slash the seventh rule if
you want to be part of the free for all,
or just get all the full episodes and all kinds
of goodies like a round table with Walter Kanig. Anyway, Sorock,
we've all held this secret for so long. You said

(01:55):
you were filming on it. Actually you said you were
filming on a space station at this time. So were
the people of this episode? Did you know about this
episode and what were your first thoughts first impressions.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
No, I didn't know about this episode, and I was like,
what the hell. I was like, there's no way that's
not deep phase nine, you know, as they showed them pylon,
the famous d S nine pylon in the opening scene.
As soon as I saw that, I'm like, wait a minute,
what are we doing here? And yeah, having got a

(02:31):
big shock that this was a d S nine kind
of crossover episode. I'm guessing before I'm really I'm wondering
when it was filmed, you know, like they film at
the same time we were filming the Emissary.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Maybe Oh no, no, this was after the Emissary, right,
because you got to figure that it was it came
out right around you know, the seventh episode, so it
probably was shot around owned the fifth, sixth, or seventh
episode too. So I was thinking the same thing. I
was wondering if maybe you guys had your first like vacation,

(03:09):
week of vacation or something like that. You know, like
you shot for six weeks straight, let's say, or eight
weeks straight, and then you got like a week off
or a few days off or I don't really know
how your schedule work. Maybe that's when they did it,
but clearly they coordinated. They were trying to help promote
this new show. One thing I noticed, Well, let me
ask you before I say what did what did you

(03:31):
notice when you saw them walking around?

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Did you did you feel nostalgic?

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Did you feel angry, like, hey, what the are they
doing on our turf?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Man?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
No, I felt nostalgic. It was great. I like seeing
them on the promenade, I like seeing them walking around
and being involved in the eating areas and stuff that
we have, you know, the courts bar and all those things.
I was like, where am I? That was my you know,
they filmed my little kicket spot with me and not
when we're always upstairs, and I was like, Hey, where

(04:03):
the hell am I at? And I also didn't realize
that there were other crossover episodes outside of them there.
I didn't know that that next generation had Crowsome.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Actually, yeah, you know Voyagers, no spoilers. Voyagers pilot episode
part of partially also takes place on Deep Space nine.
Oh yeah, and they talked to Quark. Yeah, so that's
pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Wow, yeah, there's always about two What are you feeling?

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Well, what I felt first of all was, you know,
obviously I'm like, oh, this is so cool, you know,
I love it. But I noticed that they went onto
Deep Space nine. But they clearly brought the TG lighting
team because we were on Deep Space nine. But we

(05:08):
were seeing a lot more of Deep Space nine than
what we're used to because it just it was lit.
Deep Space nine was lit like TG. Suddenly it was
like bright. It was it was like it was like
it was daytime. On Dejail, it was like weird. It
was almost like offensive. I mean, it was awesome. I
loved it, but it was almost like, why is Deep

(05:31):
Space nine so bright? It's cool to be able to
like see things a little bit more in detail and
see a little further down, but it didn't have the
same mood. So it was basically like Deep Space nine
being delivered to you in the mood of TNG if
that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
You know, yeah, because the station's equipped with mood lighting
based on who's in the highest officer on board, so nice.
Since Treicard was on board, they said we'll give them
the guard lighting.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Uh yeah. I did notice it was kind of bright
on that set. I was like, you know, I noticed
that it was brighter than the US, especially on the promenade,
and yeah, that wherever they were walking I noticed a
brighter also. For sure. Remember going to visit the Next
Generation set, walking around there and seeing how everything was

(06:22):
lit on that set.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
It was really so Yeah, you could you could sense it.
You would go on that, you would go on that
thing and everything was more lit.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Everything everything in the Next Generation set, it felt like
a whole different thing. Yeah, it was like you know
when you turn the screen up on the contrast and
brightness up on your phone. So, yes, that's what it
felt like. When you walk inside the Next Generations, You're like,

(06:53):
oh wow, I can see everything here. And then I
was wondering, like, how do they keep this place so clean?
Like they must be like paint over chips and things
all day because it's so bright and so past DELI clean. Yeah,
that I was thinking. Man, if I was on this ship,
I'd ask people to take their shoes off.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
That would be hilarious.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
If Picard goes number one and Riker's like, oh, sorry,
you know, and then Picard's.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Like, I just used slippers number one. It's much easier.
Uh yeah, Well, you know.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
It's an interesting contrast in styles because I felt like
Deep Space nine the set was way more detailed, like
there were more you know, bottles and staircases and things
and extras, way more extras and more elaborate extras with
all the aliens and all that, you know, but TNG

(07:53):
they maybe had way less things, you know, like props,
but it was so much more lit that they had
to make sure everything was perfect, whereas Deep Space nine
could have these things and you know, if if a
chair was scuffed. First of all, the lighting was dimmercy
you wouldn't notice it. And secondly, it's okay, this thing's

(08:16):
been through Wars. It's a Cardassian old thing, so that
actually some things were probably scuffed on purpose from the
art department, you know what I mean. So it's just
a very different kind of production design. And it was
just kind of noticeable only to me when I saw
it more lit and I'm like seeing the details more.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I really thought that was interesting and I loved it,
and it's obviously so nice to see it.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, you know, and I got a sense of some
other things too when I was watching, aside from the
lighting issues, which is definitely something that's noticeable, you know.
And DS nine looks like it has more details to
me than then like the Nix generation set set the
Nix generations, it is very clean, very bright, and very
you know, organized, but it also doesn't have those ridges

(09:06):
and cubby holes and like jagged edges, and.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
There's nowhere for you and Nog to hide out, that's
for sure.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, exactly exactly. You're just running down the corridor. There's
no there's nothing to hide behind. And DS nine because
it has all those angles and lighting features. You know,
it does have more character when you look at it
on the screen.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And you know, adding adding to that, sorry, note, what
are you saying?

Speaker 3 (09:36):
No, No, I got another point, so I want you
to finish that.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, And so then one more point on that is,
and I kind of touched on it, was the extras.
Next generation, they'll give you one or two extras. There's
somebody at the helm or somebody at the computer back there.
If you're an engineering there's somebody that walks by and
hands Geordi a pad.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
You know, there's not a lot going on. There's one
or two nurses.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
In sick bay. But in Deep Phase nine they go
for the extras. And I was actually surprised that not
only that TNG did not skimp out on it, but
they went full force. They had more interesting aliens on
Deep Space nine for this episode than they have almost

(10:21):
in any episode ever because they wanted to like really
show Deep Space nine part in the punt in a
good light. And so I was really impressed with how
many different aliens and cool guys that were walking by
and all this stuff that was that was awesome. They
really you know, didn't want to skimp out. They really
did it up and I loved it.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, except I did have a little u nitpick with that.
And that is on the opening scene where Doctor Crusher
and Picard are walking down the promenade, there are some
extras that are behind them, and I recognize them because
you know, obviously we spend a lot of years together.
So I think her name was Mary, and the majority
woman that was behind she's been there pretty much the

(11:05):
whole seven seasons as an extra, and you'll see her
behind Beverly car. And then they cut from that walk
and talk on the promenade to Jordie and Wharf eating
in the mess hall. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Oh no, And.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
That same lady and the guy who was walking with
her are in that restaurant eating. That's those were the
Those are prominent extras that were on the camera. They
weren't like feat They were heavily featured in the walk
and talk with the card and prusher and then they're
Star Trek and then they're heavily featured. They're like right

(11:48):
behind Wharf and Jordan. I'm like, there's no way they
were unless they were walking to the mess hall, like
like I was trying to put my head behind it, like, Okay,
unless they were were walking to the mess all the
time that they were walking behind the card and Crusher,
there's no way they could be seated and eating on

(12:08):
the next cut. It has to have time to have
been passed or something else. You know, it couldn't just
be a direct cut time once, because there can't be
in two places at once.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
You know, this is a This is a familiar thing
to me.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
I feel like I've heard this before, and I don't
remember if it was for this episode or if it
was for another one, but I feel like I think
it was maybe another one. Yeah, where it's like there's
an extra two in this one scene in engineering and
then it's like literally cut two with no time in
between them in a different place. And so it's not
like you could explain it away like, oh, well they

(12:43):
just they oh it's the next day. No, it's like,
literally this extra is here cut to Beverly Crusher and
Sick Babe.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
The extra is there. But this is like on a
space station on a ship. Wow, that's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well, I thought, I thought, warp And and Jordi, we're
having lunch on the station though, because it had to be.
It had to have been in order for those same
two extras to be still on them. You know, I
think they're because those extras are basically DS nine extras.
That's what I'm trying to say. There are those are

(13:20):
reoccurring back the.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Love that because I did wonder about that. I did wonder.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
I said, there's no way they're going to bring TNG
extras to portray all of these background characters that are
on Depase nine. They just gave them that day of
work from Deep Space nine. They're like, we need Alexander
Sidig and fourteen fourteen of your best extras with Yes,

(13:47):
I want to see Uridians. I want to see, but Jorans,
I want to see everything and moren was.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
There, morn was there, was Mackett, so okay, look at
more and getting his mac on mack and a Bolian girl.
But yeah, that was my little Nippick with the said dressing. Now,
having said that, the thing that stood out to me

(14:13):
almost instantly was the fact that DS nine has a
certain level of life and energy that is aborted because
of the extras. Because because it's like a community feel,
it has a certain vibrational like life force to it

(14:37):
that I wish we could have seen more utilization of
that on on the other shows. It could have easily
have been a place where, for example, the Voyager cast
is often there hanging out and the Next Generation is
often there.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Interesting, it could have been a Pope place where a
lot of the crossovers happening multiple times, not just you know,
in a one off episode, just because I feel like
the energy it's it's synergetic when you see the two crossover.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, that's interesting. And the background actors they do give
it life. They give it like, uh, well, it's the ambiance,
you know, it's a different kind of ambiance, whereas the
background actors in TG.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
It's different.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
It's more reserved, more professional, you know, kind of held back.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
And the other aspect of the space station that I
like that I just you know, it took this episode
for me to kind of really see it when you
compare the styles storytelling from the Mixed Generation to DS nine.
But one of the things that I noticed also was
when you're on Next Generations ship, every time there is

(16:02):
a villain, there is a guest star or whatever. That
person has to be encountered by the ship so it's
always like we run into this vessel surf we're being failed, right,
or we're going to this planet surface to visit the
Gargelians or whatever, and that's so you have to engage

(16:27):
into the diplomacy. You have to go and meet the person.
It's always a moment of like, oh, there's captain, there's
a ship on on screen.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Right and there it's deep space nine deep space people
there in and out constantly.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Possibilities are endless, possibilities a endless You don't have to
run into a ship. You don't have to.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
There's no one need to explain some reason why this
person's there, because DND you're right, they do that every
single time we're rendezvousing with the uss Hood or we're
picking out two ambassadors from this planet, or where you know,
we're taking leave on this cluster.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yes, yes, we're patrolling the Nebula and then we ran
into this anomaly. It's always something that you kind of
have to explain that you've encountered. It has to have
a background, Well, what would this Romulan ship be doing
in this sector? And da da da dad, And there's
a whole backstory of finding that out in with DS

(17:30):
nine as a space station and having so many characters
that are just a board you don't have to like,
they don't need to be identified right away. You can
get a character like the Uridian that we had in
this episode that approached wharf, who doesn't need any explanation.
It doesn't. It's not like, oh, he's on a freighter ship.
We found this freightership floating in such and such sector

(17:52):
and you know, there's no exploit. It's just a random
guy walks up. He's you know, he's an alien obviously,
and he's got some information. He's got you know, he's
got a story to tell. And Bob, we're right into
the action and it doesn't require any kind of initial

(18:12):
diplomacy intervention. It's just like some guy taps you on
the shoulder. It's like, excuse me, can I talk to you?
You know, it's like we're right into the action.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
And you know, uh, this is the moment I think
to tell you, Sarak that you know my love for Bollians.
Urridians are one of my favorite aliens as well. I
would say those are my top two star Trek aliens.

(18:44):
Maybe and maybe you you could toss in de Vorda
as well, but they're more developed. You know, these are
kind of like underdeveloped. But your Indians, what's cool about them?
There's not a lot known. I mean, you can always
recognize them because they have that pruney face. I think
it's cold on your Idia. And and.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
What they are is.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Information smugglers, you know, like the fra ANGI. You know,
they deal with you know, latinum and they whatever weapons
and trade. The Uridians are information smugglers. And that's why
every time you see a Uridian, you see riker like
roughing them up for information, or somebody or war for
rouffing them up for information, or or them coming up

(19:32):
to you and saying, you know, I can get you
I know something about anyway. And this particular one was
played by one of my favorite actors ever, the six
foot seven giant Wow, James Cromwell. He's played a lot
of roles in Star Trek, most notably as ZEPHYRM Cochrane

(19:55):
in UH Star Trek First Contact. My favorite role of his,
of course, was as the police officer in an episode
of Three's Company. He was a very tall police officer,
but anyway, not the tall people can't be police and
short people can be police. But I just remember when
I was a kid watching Star Three's Company rerun, going like.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Man, that is a tall but like I couldn't get
around it. I'm like, I'm distracted by how tall he is.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm trying to pay attention to the storyline of like, oh,
Jack Tripper just wrestled with an ironing board or whatever,
but I'm.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Just like, why is that guy so tall?

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Anyway, He's an amazing actor, and he played a Uridian
in this episode, which is one of my favorite aliens
Lots of fun. You know, that's one of the reasons
I liked this episode so much.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
I thought he was fantastic in this and you know
how what made me think that is that there were
I didn't really know the actor who plays right, so
I always I just blind look at the performance and say, Okay,
let's see how good this performances. It's kind of better
that I don't know the actor, but then if I did,

(21:06):
I will probably you have certain expectations with the mannerisms.
But because I don't know what is I'm just like,
let me just judge the performance song from what I see.
And as I was watching him, I was thinking this
guy reminds me of a very good actor by the
name of Renee Olper Juan.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Wal Yeah, I could see that very similar, gruff kind
of demeanor, serious gruff, willing to lose themselves in the character,
but their overall feeling is hm gruff professional.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right, Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah. Yeah, And and and sometimes even like you know,
like a smart ass to some degree right there, because
there was a moment there when he was like, I
suggest you take a nap. So yeah, so I was like, Wow,
this guy is a fantastic actor. So I'm glad you

(22:08):
named it, mister James Brobwell. And obviously Zach he played
zach Efron on They Watch what he said? He played
Zach Efron.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Oh Cochrane, Oh gotta be careful saying that name. Zephyrom Cochrane,
the inventor of warp Drive. He's also an Emmy Award
winner for the movie Babe, That'll Do Pig.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
That'll Do Pig. Yeah, he was fantastic.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
All right, Well, let's take a break, let's recover from
our jokes, and we're going to talk about how awesome
this episode is or isn't, Because so far we've talked
about Deep Space Nine. We've talked about the actors, We've
talked about the.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Aliens and the back and the lighting.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
But what did sar roc Lofton think about this episode
upon his first viewing. We'll be right back with that
answer on the Seventh Rule. Hi, everybody, welcome back to
the Seventh Rule with sarrock Lofton. Sorry, I meant Julian Basheer.

(23:24):
All right, here are the trivioids of the week. There
is not a day that goes by that I don't
feel extremely grateful for doing this show with sarrok Lofton.
That is not a trivioid. That is a factoid. Here
it comes Beverly Crusher wants to check out one of
the Deep Space nine Hollis suites. Jordi loves pasta Alfierella.

(23:47):
Warf loves liquid polymer. Julian Basheer didn't think Commander Data
would be so personable. Not all the Klingons at Kiddamer
were killed in the massacre. Data has a pulse, a
bullion flirts with morn. The arboreal needle snake likes to
attack from above. That that was the thing that the

(24:10):
Urridian guy was talking about. The Tagua tribe of Nigore sees.
I don't like saying that one sees hammer as an
icon of hearth and home. I just realize the FRANGI
see the hammer as a sign of sexual prowess. Data

(24:33):
is the bird Wharf's arm was mauled by a beast
on a ritual hunt as a child.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I kind of want to edit that out, all right.
So man, Yeah, what was the one that you really liked?

Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh? Yeah, Oh, I couldn't even say it.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
I'm like, I've already I feel like I've already pushed
my leg just by act there they were saying the
Nitners weren't getting a lot of work better or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's like Star Trek, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, every once in a while, just it just happens
to slip out there.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
But is that your pickup line? All right?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
So the point is also Sid was in this episode?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, did was in.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
We talked about the background actors, we talked about the
lighting and Deeve's face nine. But what did you think
about your buddy Sid appearing on.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
TNG fantastic love seeing Sid? You know, he was, you know,
representing us on this show.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
And I when we go back to early Sid in
the first season. Sid, he's so young in the beginning
of this show and kind of, you know, the early
season Sid I thought was a little you know, a
little bit different than what he ends up becoming. And
so I see the flashes of that early Sid where

(26:11):
he's kind of this nervous kind of energy. This you know,
this enthusiasm is almost naivety a little bit. I want
to say, it comes across the bit totally. And so
that's what I felt when I watched him in this episode.
Oh this is that's young doctor. Yeah, who still has

(26:34):
his you know, he hasn't got his feet wet, and
he's still kind of figuring out himself out.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, it was definitely a throwback. I had the same
feeling where I was like, oh, yeah, that's right, I forgot.
Initially they introduced doctor Julian Bashers, this bright eyed and
bushy tailed.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Super enthusiastic doctor. This like wow, we're on the front lines.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
And he would kind of step in it sometimes because
he's super excited about things and the like the thing
that you're excited about is our war, or when you're
talking about plumbing it, this is my home, you know,
and so he kind of would stepping a little bit
like that, and I forgot about that. And then when
he when he shows up in this and he's just like, oh, Data,

(27:16):
this is so great and.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Exciting and whatever. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's first
and second season.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
But shar that we know and love so much, that
was really really I mean personally I liked where his
character evolved too, But the reason we liked it so
much is because of where.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
That evolution began initially.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Right, that's this is this was Basher originally, and it
was nice to see him and it was nice to
get that throwback character before he evolved into the more
mature and debonair kind of character later.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, And it feels like next generation guys are looking
at him like like yes, slow down, young fellow, Like
you know, because we've been here, done that, you know,
we've got a whole thing. And it's like he's in
there like, well, well why did we try this? And
what about that? It seems like Data and Jordie are
like sunning him to a slight degree like okay, young fellaw,

(28:14):
you know first well you need to ask permission to
use this?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, Like I can't I can't just do stuff, and
so I.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Felt like that. I felt like the young sid is
you know, he puts his foot in his mouth essentially,
and he did a pretty good job that to this
time too, I felt like he was doing that when
he says to Data, he says done shaw hack bro,
you know yeah, and he was kind of prying on that.

(28:46):
He's like, you're breathing and I was just waiting for
him to say, and you have a bulge down there?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Do you mind all you functional? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
But that's what makes him that character is so fun
and interesting. He's just like he loves science, he loves medicine.
He's fascinating something that we take for granted. You know,
after five and a half seasons, we are being reminded, oh, yeah,
this is a really cool character that we.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Have on TG.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
And sometimes it takes an outsider to remind us of like, wow,
we've got this cybernetic being that has hair that's actually growing,
that has a pulse that's actually pulsing. You know, that's
pretty interesting. Those are things that we kind of take
for granted and don't think about. And then when you
get somebody like the sheer shown up and pointing that out,

(29:41):
we can understand why he's so interested and fascinated. And
of course this is TNG showing us why this new
character is so interesting. When you know data has the
lines of like that's interesting. Usually people want to know
about this or want to know about that. Nobody's ever
asked me about a pulse for my hair growing. And

(30:01):
so that's also kind of winking at the audience like, hey,
you should watch Deep Space nine. You should like this
character because he's gonna dig in places that most other
people don't. He's got this curiosity and this tenacity and
this intelligence to really kind of dig a little deeper
on things. And it does it makes us more interested
in the character and thinking, oh, that's an interesting doctor,

(30:23):
good character.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
And then they teased us with cheap O'Brien nam and
I was like, oh, we gotta get it. I thought
we're cheap because I wanted to see O'Brien talking to
his old cluemate. Guys, there's I'm sure there's some good
banter in there, just like, hey, how you're liking it
over here? You know they working you hard enough. Just
whatever they would say. I wanted to hear those kind

(30:48):
of that exchange between Jordan and O'Brien. Data just like,
even if it was just one line, but we didn't
get that, we just got a nam.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Yeah, it would have been really nice.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
It would have been nice to get see just to
see O'Brien, you know, even if it's just for one
scene and he shows up and he's just like hey,
you know, and then Wharf enjoy you're talking to him
for a minute and O'Brien says, you know what, it's
really good seeing you. I'm super busy getting this station

(31:22):
back in order. The Kredassians really destroyed it as horrible
and it's a mess, but I just had to.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
Take a minute to come say hi to my old buddies.
That that would have been. We would have all loved it. Now.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Of course there's budgetary reasons probably where they're like, we're
not going to just write everybody in, But we would
have loved it. Now in hindsight thirty years later, we're like, damn,
that would have been so cool.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, because those moments are priceless, just any dialogue between
the characters. But you know, we got what we got
in and ultimately we got a Wharf episode.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yes, And meanwhile, Wharf, and you know that's the parallels
there is. Data is looking towards his creator, his father,
and Wharf finally realizes that he should go investigate his father,
because remember he started talking to Data and said, here's

(32:18):
your father. You should go find him at all costs.
And he's like, oh wait a second, yeah, I'm talking
to myself here. And he goes down and these historically
warring races, the Romulins and the Klingons that hate each
other forever, are now on this planet together, and he's like, okay,

(32:42):
and how many did they say.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
There were of them? Yes, seventy three was the number
that sounds like a prime number.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
And the guy knows War as a kid, so it's like,
not like he just doesn't know this guy at all,
he knows who he is, and there was that connection there. Look,
I thought it's great to get a Wharf episode. Wharf
doesn't really get a chance to to really get into
in depth, and most of the time it's just the

(33:13):
comic relief sometimes or just has a line here or there,
or he gets to make a bad suggestion that gets
shot down. But once in a while, outside of the
Alexander Rashako's stories, because I'm not a big fan of
those stories either. We got for him, though we did
get a name for him, we left it at that.
That's good enough for me, That's all I need. But

(33:38):
for me, it's just like the best Wharf episodes are
about his family, not his children, but about his either
father and his respect from that, you know, defending his
honor or his family name, and obviously Kerr and his brother,

(33:58):
which is still along the same lines of defending the
family and cling on you know, right, a passage of rituals.
So I believe that Wharf, when he gets a chance
to delve into his cling on background and identity and
persona and his history, that's when we get an in

(34:21):
depth Warf story, and it gives us a chance to
see him actually get a chance to flex some acting muscles,
because you know, saying yes, captain, no, captain, that's not
really a challenge to any actor that anybody can phone
that in. But when you have a chance to actually

(34:41):
play emotions and deliver the lines and scenes where you
have to make the audience think, I think that's when
you get a chance to see Warf and Michael Dorn
his best actor.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, and we also got a midst season two parter,
just kind of in the middle of the season, we
had what was the two parter we had recently, uh,
Chain of Command Part one and part two. So now
we've had you know, season six began with the second
half of a two parter times Arrow. Then we had

(35:18):
Chain of Commands Parts one and two with there are
four Lights, and then just a few weeks later, now
there's Birthright Part one and two. Suddenly we're just getting
all these two parters willy nilly, left and right, and
that's great by me because I remember, you know, back
in the day watching these as those being usually the
most memorable episodes. Not necessarily they weren't always the best,

(35:42):
but they felt like more of an event when you're like,
you know, it would show, you know, there's the opening scene,
then there's the commercial. Then it comes back on and
it shows the title and it would say part one,
and you're like, ooh, all right, okay, sit back, there's
gonna be a two part episode, which it just felt
like more like, okay, this is especially because we only

(36:02):
had to wait a week for it.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
You know, if it was at the end of the season, you'd.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Be like, oh man, but it just felt more special.
It felt like there was This is gonna be a
big one. That's gonna be a good one because it's
it's a two parter, and this one so far does
not disappoint.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
It's weird seeing Data.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
As Doctor Union Soon acting, you know, being all normal,
although I did think of something got a lot of
nippicks in this episode.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
If it just hit me.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
After a million years, which is Doctor Union Soon made
Data so human like, he gave him a pulse, he
gave him growing hair, He made him fully functional. He
now is incorporating a dream sequence into him. Why couldn't

(37:01):
he make him a regular skin tone?

Speaker 3 (37:06):
What?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Why did he make him silver?

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Because he used all of the technology and the hemroids
that he gave him so he could be completely lifelike
and grown toenails and hemorrhoids. But no, I don't I
don't know why he would make him silver.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, he made him silver like. You can give him
a pulse and growing hair and dreams, but you can't
make his skin tone similar to your own.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
That's strange.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
You were able to do stuff that's way more complicated
than paint.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Yeah, perhaps his skin is designed for certain type of
UV rays. And all type of exposure to radiation and
all other kind of.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Explanation. That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, so he couldn't color and match it, you know,
because data does mention that he has the ability to
exist inside of a vacuum for several minutes, so he
could go into space with that skin. So it must
be some kind of durability issue or some kind of

(38:23):
I forgot, does Lore also have that same skin color?

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Okay, so yeah, it's probably just the manner of materials,
building materials, That's what I would blame it on.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Uh So, well, let me ask you this, what are
your thoughts on you know, because Kidimer was where WARF's
parents died. It was during the Romulan Klingon War. The
Kidimer Masker Wharf's parents died. He was like four or
five years old, and then he was saved and whatever,

(38:59):
and then he grew up with those Russian parents or
Ukrainian parents.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
But what are your thoughts on now we know his
dad's dead.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Okay, we almost for a second we thought, you know,
but just what are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 3 (39:17):
On?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Now he's got this Klingon group and he's going to
be stuck there and he was in some jungle planet
whatever it was called.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, well, you know when he first saw that klingon
woman bathing and she ran into him right afterwards, and
he said, I'm good, I'm here to get you out
of here, and you know, and she says, oh, I'm
I am home, like and know I'll tell you I'm
here to take you home. And she's like, no, let
me talk about it already. There. I knew those are problems. Uh.

(39:52):
I don't think you're saved in nobody. They don't look
like they want to be saved, because you know, when
somebody wants to be say, there's a there's an expression
on their face when they do see somebody that they
see as friendly.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, when he says I'm here to rescue you or say,
they're just oh thank god, they're not like, oh boy,
this is awkward.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
How much How much are you? How much did you
risk for this?

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Because yeah, forget about the saving part. Were you just
watching me take a bath? Let's go back to that.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
She didn't seem to react to that part at all.
She was just like, Jimmy, is that.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
You everybody watches me, babe? Like, doesn't she care like.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Barely not so you know, maybe cleons just don't.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Maybe Klingons are like whatever, I'm a predator, dude, you
if you watch me at your own risk.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Well, I mean it's regular that don't even work though,
So I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
That's true, Like you watch me, I might kill you.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
You never know, careful, but clearly those guys don't want
to be saved. I feel like there is a contingency
of romulin and klingons. That group there are getting along.
And I don't believe that those Klingons are being held
hostage in any way by the rodulin presence there. I

(41:17):
think there's some kind of cooperation between them, whatever that is,
whether they have decided to break off from their respective
communities to start another community here, like a hippie commune
type of place where we'll all get along together and
we're not going to step on each other's toes and

(41:37):
we're going to allow each other to flourish in their
own ways. But it doesn't seem to me like a
captivity situation, right, And I may be wrong, I may
be put wrong, but that's not what I'm getting vibes of.
I'm getting vibes to that this is a volunteer that
they want this arrangement and they don't want it to

(41:58):
be known that this arrangement exists, Like they want this
to be a secret. That's why they are fearful of
more leaving, as he may tell other people that displaced exists.
So that's what I have for that.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
That's a really good point, all speculation, that's really good point.
So if they don't want him to leave, it's because
they don't want information coming out. They're like, once you
come here, you don't you can't go, so sorry, but
you better just start bathing in front of us naked
because you're not going anywhere.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
That's that's what it comes down to. So that's the
vibe I'm getting. I have no idea if that's anything.
I don't know what the the Data having the bird
dreams says anything. Which Yeah, speaking of which, those were
some things that I you know, every once in a

(42:58):
while you're watching the show and you like, hey, that
would be cool to have in my house. If I
had that, and the thing that I thought, it's a crow,
it's a crow. No, if I had I wanted one
of those paintings that Data made while he was painting
I know it's painted by the art department or somebody
like that, said son. Yeah, but the painting of the

(43:20):
corridor that he made, I love that painting. And I
also liked the portrait that he made of doctor Sue
of his dead. So those two. If I could have
a piece of souvenir from this episode, it would either
be the portrait that Data drew up his pops or

(43:40):
the or the piece of art of the corridor.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Out of twenty two I think it was twenty two
paintings something like that, maybe twenty four, twenty three, Michael
Jordan's number and Draymond Green and Jason Richardson. Of course
everybody knows and and see j Watson all right, everybody

(44:05):
knows that and so many other people. Uh okay, it
is time for the home run of the episode. Home
run of the episode, srocklofton who gets the home run
of today's episode? Mm hmm, well you're thinking about that.

(44:29):
I just want to tell everybody I have so many
nitpicks on this episode. I have so many, but I
also enjoyed this episode a lot, so I'm gonna save
all of the nitpicks for things left unset. So everybody
definitely check out things left unsaid. For all of my
NIT picks except for the one that I mentioned, who
gets the home run today.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
I'm gonna say the home run is James Brobwell, there, there,
you're with It was interesting. It was like, right away,
as soon as they showed him the background somewhere of courts,
I think it was You're like, oh, this gets to
steal the show. He's just he didn't even have any
lines yet and I was already focused on him. He

(45:15):
knew how to wear the makeup, he knew how to
wear his face of expressions, and he had a certain
level of my seriousness and slickness and also cowardice at
the same time. He had a nice balance of them
all to make him believable for me as the character.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and go out on
a limb and say the home run.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Of today's episode is James Cromwell as well. I love
the actor. He nailed it.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Since I knew who it was, I could recognize him
under the makeup and his certain acting styles and his
mouth on the close ups. Didn't realize he had a
recognizable mouth until I watch it. But it's because I knew.
If I didn't know, I probably would not have been
able to just be like, wait a minute, that's James
Cromwell's mouth. Everybody knows that. I don't think that's the

(46:10):
case at all, but it was nice to watch him.
He always gives a lot.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
I think he's had maybe four roles.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
He was also if you remember, do you remember the
episode of Deep Space nine when they were on the
Defiant and it was basically like a hunt for Red
October thing or whatever. The Defiant was like all messed up,
and Quark was trapped kind of below decks with this

(46:41):
other alien and there was a torpedo that had gone
through the wall. And then Quark was like, we have
a fifty to fifty chance of this torpado is going
to go off fifty to fifty chance of pulling a
water pull the other He's.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Like, that's the risk, that's the gamble.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
You know that other alien that was played by James Cromwell,
So he was he was that guy. He also played
a guy in TMG where he just has.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
A mustache and that's his alien race anyway, all right,
so home run in the episode for both of us.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, James Cromwell awesome actor.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Loved that dude.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
His son, John Cromwell is also an actor, and he's
also like six six or six seven.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
It looks just like him. Shout out to him.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
They're in Oliver Bromwell.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
That's the famous I don't know that, but I don't
know much, so uh, We're gonna give a very special
thanks to our friends, doctor Anne, Marie Siegel, Eve England
Out in walesy Vet black Man, Tom TJ.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Jackson, Bout Missouri, Titus.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Muller, doctor Mohammed Nora and Neil oh Platte, Joe Balserati,
Mike Goo, doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent, Faith Howell, the
mab Boardman, Chris McGee, Jake Barrett, Henry Hunger, Allison Leech High,
Julie manos Fe, Jed Thompson, doctor Susan V. Grooner, Glenn Iverson,

(48:02):
Dave Gregory, Chris Sternet, Greg Kenzo, Cassandra g. Chuck A,
Chris Garris, Jason m Oaken. Of course, all right, everybody
stick around. We've got the free for all up next,
and we will be right back on the seventh Rule.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
TM. Hi.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Everybody, welcome back to the Seventh Rule. We just had
a very important and serious meeting. This was sarrok lofton
It's time for the Free for All with Melissa Lungo.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
Yo, what up?

Speaker 5 (48:38):
That was cling on for?

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Hello?

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And Jason m Okin of course Hi everybody. Chuck A
is the TNNG fanatic.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Alison leech Hide is.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Wearing a cool shirt she got by walking art made
by Melissa. Mark Zutcoff is here. He's got pictures everywhere.
Anil O Palatte is calling in from El Salvador.

Speaker 5 (49:06):
What oh love it?

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Chris McGee also has a walking art made by Melissa
or it's an introverted Republic shirt? Yeah, and the Matt
Boardman has his is it? It looks like it's a
family Frangie family shirt?

Speaker 2 (49:25):
All right? Here we go. Jake Cisco guesses the IMDb score.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
I think this was like the seven seventh floor.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
I cannot understand how you could be so mistaken. Does
anybody else have any guesses that doesn't already know?

Speaker 7 (49:53):
How about d S nine.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
Seven?

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, that sound that you didn't hear tells you that
somebody got right on the money. And I think that
was Chuck A seven point five, Very good, very good?
Uh Rock was also very close. Everybody was close on
this one.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
All right, non appearance take two. Uh so let's see everything,
all right.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
I had to be there. Yeah, it's warming here.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
So non appearance net mentions. We had Alexander, we had
a nan for both Wharf's parents, and we had a
non appearance mentioned for O'Brien an the others.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
Doctor Union soon No he was no, we saw him.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, it was a real version of him, the reasonable
fact simile.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
I guess, yeah, somebody smarter than I would say, Uh,
what about what about some kinds of or some sorts
of Chris McGee, what do we got?

Speaker 5 (51:17):
We got three this time. First, when she're describing to
the device that came from the game of Quadrant, said,
I think it must be some sort of medical instrument.
And then later as they're testing it out in engineering,
he explains what happened to the device when Data was
knocked out. He says, the power connections blue, it's it's

(51:37):
sent out some kind of plasma shock. And then just
a moment later, the forge after Data explains that he
had a vision, says maybe had some kind of random
power fluctuation.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Very nice, Thank you very much, Chris McGee, all right, Uh, well,
it's time to get this thing started. Melissa Longo, will
you please let us know what you thought of this
particular episode.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
I have to say that this episode had me at
Deep Space nine.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
It had me at Deep Space nine. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
You know when I see Deep Space nine and then
hear that intro music and all of that, I can't
help but something inside me was like, oh, it's home.
It feels like coming home. And so it got me
very nostalgic for Deep Space nine and watching it because

(52:43):
I haven't watched it in more quite some time, and
I feel like I need to rewatch.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:52):
So already it scored Bukoo brownie points for me because
we got to not only see the outside, but we
got to see the promenade as well, which was fantastic.
My only quip about this is that I really wish

(53:13):
that there was more interaction between the TG cast and
the Deep Space nine cast. I love that we got Bashir,
and I'll talk about Bashir in just a second, but
I would have loved to see them interact like when
Wharf was had the to Marian, He's a Ta Marian

(53:34):
right to Marian over the you're Ridian. You're Ridian looking
at some other aliens. Anyway, you're Ridian over the railing
on the second level of the promenade. I was like,
where's Odo, because he should have, you know, somebody's life

(53:57):
is at risk at the moment. But I would have
loved to seen a proper crossover between Deep Space nine
and the next Generation. This would have been fun to
see them all working together. I do enjoy that we
did get some Basheer in this, a lot of Basher

(54:17):
in this, actually, and I love that we got to
see Basher's curiosity, and I love his curiosity towards Data
and him examining, oh does your hair grow your breathing?

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
He was fascinated by data in a different way, and
I love that he approached data with a different perspective
than we usually get to see. So I really enjoyed that.
And I really enjoyed the scene between Data and Wharf
in ten forward. I thought that was a very poignant scene,

(54:57):
which I thoroughly enjoyed. James Crumblin, well, I thought he
did fantastic. There were some moments when him and Warf
were in the shuttle together and he's like, you better
look up and he's playing with this finger in a
certain way, and I don't know, there was just something

(55:19):
in the way that he brought this character to life.
He felt a little bit like a drunk, but not.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
So.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
Yeah, he keepspe's nine.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
I think Odo was still playing with his belt back then,
isn't that what he is? Yes, thank you very much,
Melissa long Ago. Jason m Oakin is here. He loves
this episode. He's written a dissertation on it. In fact,
what do you think of it?

Speaker 6 (55:52):
I absolutely have Actually I do have mixed feelings about it.
At some level. I think it suffers having, you know,
having to come on sort of on the coat tails
of tapestry and face of the enemy, so you know,
there's a lot to expect, especially when you know it's
going to be a two parter, so something big is

(56:12):
coming and this, to me, there's a little bit of
something missing in this episode, and you know, I'm still
having a hard time putting my finger on it. Certainly
having a deep space nine there is just it's sort
of a welcome feeling.

Speaker 5 (56:25):
It was a little bit different.

Speaker 6 (56:26):
Obviously went back when it first aired, there was not
a lot of sort of history behind Deep Space nine
to sort of have that feeling, and I think that
sort of changes over time just just because of sort
of the context you put it in. But Melissa's I
think nailed it exactly. There's sort of this you see
the characters on the sets, but the the but the
but the local characters are missing. It's like, you know,

(56:47):
I'm coming to somebody's home and nobody's home, so it
feels a little barren to me. And especially with SIDS.
All SID scenes are on the Enterprise sets. They're not
even on Deep Space set, so there's that component to it.
On some level, I found it hard to sort of
distinguish the A story and the B story. Which one
is the A which one is to be the interesting stories,

(57:11):
But I'm not sure that they connected them. Certainly in
that wonderful scene and ten forward, it was written a
little bit differently Worth was supposed to be and I'm
standing and looking out at the stars, not sitting there
with a glass of whatever he was drinking. I think
it would have been a little bit better hadn't been
done that way. But again, maybe they should have split
them into two separate episodes with different you know, they

(57:33):
should mix the two stories to do them justice. There's
a little bit of sort of even I mean, I
like data story, I like sort of the dream story.
I think it needed to be a little bit more
weird than it was. I mean, at some level, I
think Recolby shot the dream sequence more kind of funk
here than I remembered it originally. So that was nice. Frankly,
maybe it needed to be even kind of funk here

(57:53):
and a little bit more sort of out there to
stand out. I would have enjoyed it. I think a
little bit more sort of in retrospect, I think there's
a I would have wanted a little bit more scope
the Wharft story. It's just he just kind of got
meshed into this one episode and you know, we see
something else and we'll talk about, you know, the second part,
and we'll get to it. But it's just I'm not

(58:15):
sure that the stories have enough room to breathe. I
think in this one episode there was something kind of
missing about it. They're there are you know, little things
that kind of off, you know, went off the rails
here and there. In terms of what made it into
the frame, there's you know that there's a famous thing
in the end where you see Sids wearing the white
booties and you can actually see that once you see

(58:35):
if you cannot unsee it, pull that up.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Again, Chris ge wow, hang on, hang on, here it comes.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
You can barely catch it. It's just very brief.

Speaker 4 (58:56):
Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.

Speaker 6 (59:00):
So again, it's to me kind of and it's the
oldest Senson you'll ever see walking by the next r
But to me, that kind of summarizes the episode. It's there,
but something is missing, and uh, and that's how I see.
It's it's nicest nostalgic I think. You know, there were
a nice part for Sid here and and he's great,

(59:22):
you know, Brent is as always very very good, and
you know, and Michael has a lot to do here
and it's nice. But you know, again, certain things are missing,
and you know there's a lot more to say. And
I'll say that for later.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Jason's sneaking in the word booties and he always sneaks
in the title justice. You know what he's thinking. Thank
you very much, Jason m Oakin. All right, Chuck A
the TG fanatic, you love this episode.

Speaker 7 (59:51):
Yeah, I really enjoyed seeing it again. Brent was awesome
again and he and another a dual role. It's good
to see Brent without the makeup as doctor Sun. I
expanded what Malisa said. I'd like to have seen more

(01:00:12):
people from DS nine got to see more and on
one shot. And then of course doctor Bisher was on
the Enterprise. I would have loved to see Jake and
Nogg here in the background there somewhere that would have
been good, even if they didn't have a speaking line,
just to see them. Of course the speaking would have
been good too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I did.

Speaker 7 (01:00:33):
I did love the scene where Data was painting all
those what he had in his vision or his dream,
and then he was one scene he was painting with
both the left and the right hand, two paintings at once.
That's something that Data would do obviously. Yeah. I was

(01:00:54):
really hoping to see more of He had the card
and Beverly and LaForge you know, on DS nine, and
that was just kind of the intro shot. Maybe another
scene there would have been good. It was good to
see Warf on DS nine before he actually was on
DS nine. I thought, uh, one thing that I would

(01:01:18):
have also liked to have seen was the uh more
doctor Basher interacting more other than just with the uh
the prop from the Gamma quadrat. I'd like to have
seen it was a nice scene with him with Data
and uh talking about you know, growing hair and breathing.

(01:01:42):
Maybe a little bit more interaction with Jeordie would have
been good. But I really liked the episode. I like
I said, it was good to see it again. I
had good memories of it from seeing it in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Oh yeah, thank you very much. Chuck a awesome sweater.
Alison leech Hide is here. What did you think of
this episode?

Speaker 8 (01:02:08):
I have to say I wasn't too terribly excited when
I'm like, oh, it's birthright, and then I watched it,
I'm like, it's a lot better than I remember, So
that was pleasant for me. So as a kid, I
don't think I really liked this one. I think the
whole dream sequence, like what was picked was weird for me.
I just Nunian's you know psychology was not, you know,
something I was really into as a child, So all

(01:02:31):
of the the dream icons that were used was like, okay, weird.
I don't know how this has to deal with Data.
But now as an adult, I really like the the
mirroring of Data and Warf finding out about themselves through
their wanting to know their fathers, and so they're like, wait,

(01:02:52):
this is who I am because of this person, and
I need to figure out how what that means to me.
And so that scene between Data and Wharf is wonderful
because it is just Worf talking himself into whether my
father's alive or not. I should go find out and
that's important to me as who I am, be Iklingon

(01:03:13):
or human, Like I need to go figure this out
for me. And I thought that was beautiful and it
was a way of talking Data through it too, like no,
you should go through this.

Speaker 7 (01:03:23):
This is cool.

Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
And I also really liked the scene between Data and Picard.
I thought that was really nice, like Data's going through
his support system and he's like, I want to figure
this out. And I love the line of you're a
culture of one and just as important as the culture
of a billion, and I thought that was a beautiful
way of just like, you are important, figure yourself out.

(01:03:48):
You deserve this. So really enjoyed that, And I have
to say, poor Deanna has the worst timing of furniture
and Klingons ever, she has now walked in on those
or glass tables being smashed by two Klingons, like right afterwards,
and she was a little snarky with him, like are
you gonna beat up more furniture? You're gonna take it

(01:04:08):
out on the incense? And I thought that was great
coming and going. You were out of line, Yes, you
are the superior officer. You're still out of line, So
enjoy that. And the look on Riker's face when he
turned around on the bridge after Warf had given in
Gossame dressing down just like low pens Low Pez.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Thank you.

Speaker 8 (01:04:34):
And I really like that. I mean, not a lot
of Riker in this episode, but I thought that was
well done, Like, dude, what's up with you? And so
I thought, you know, it's it's a lot more fun
than I remember it, and and I thought it was
a great way to explore both of these characters we
don't usually get to explore too much. And the idea

(01:04:54):
of Android's dreaming is not just in Star Trek, you know,
do they dream of electric sheep too?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
I love that Movie's movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Oh, thank you very much, Alison Leech hide. Mark Zetkoff
is here, what's up? Mark, how you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 9 (01:05:14):
Well, this two parter was never a favorite of mine,
just like with Alison, so I was a bit trepidacious
on the rewatch. But this first part engaged me more
than I remembered what a teaser, So much packed into
five and a half minutes, kicking off with that musical
quote of the DS nine theme. Pretty sure I saw
morn in the background, by the way. Then the pairings

(01:05:38):
Crusher and Picard, Jordy and Wharf eating with an echo
back to season two's Times Squared, where the Jordie nor
Pulaski liked Riker's o wan omelet but Wharf loved it.
Data and Basher and their little bromance and Warf and Shrek.
Too bad they couldn't have settled it over a pint

(01:05:59):
like the later dreamwork. Strick would suggest, I would never
have recognized James Cromwell if I hadn't looked up who
played the character. It was good to see Troy counseling
again after Warf smashes the table in his quarters and
thatcho back to a season two episode where Klar does
the same in the emissary. Interesting that Data went to

(01:06:20):
Wharf for advice on his vision of his father, Doctor Sung,
and Wharf counseled him to learn anything he can about
his father. But I think it was a missed opportunity
not to have Data talk to Riker after Riker talked
about fathers to a Klingon on the cruiser of the
Pa in the season two episode a Matter of Honor,
and then dealt with his own father in the Icarus

(01:06:41):
Factor right afterwards. I found it hard to get invested
in Wharf's story in this episode. Without Ronald D. Moore's touch,
it lacked something. Brandon Braga's dialogue for just about everyone
else was so much better than for the Klingons. But
while Data's story was unusual and a bit of an
annoying that we meete another incarnation of Noonean's song in

(01:07:03):
his dream, the lengthy sequence ended in a real sense
of wonder as he flies through space and sees the Enterprise.
Truly an inspirational image and my home pun of the episode,
the song is over, but the malady lingers.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
On excellent, Thank you very much, Mark Zutcov home pun
of the episode, all right, aneil O Paullatte, what's up?
Welcome back. What did you think of this episode that
you've seen for the first time ever?

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Thank you.

Speaker 10 (01:07:36):
I like this episode, However, I think it being on
Deep Space nine takes away from it because if you're
going to do a crossover, like a lot of people
have said, let's do a full on crossover, and if
it's an episode about fathers and sons, how are we
not talking to the ciscos, Like how is Data not
somehow running into you know, Captain said and this coming up?

(01:08:01):
I think that would have been perfect. So it feels like, yeah,
a lot was crammed into this episode. There are too
many stories happening. You know, they could have brought in,
for example, will crossovers, Odo finding his where he's from,
you know his parents, or you know he doesn't have
parents but you know his origins and things like that.

(01:08:23):
I think there was there were some missed opportunities there.
It should have been just pulling crossover. But otherwise, yeah,
I think the Data story was more interesting than the
Wharf story. To me, it was hard to care about
Wharf's father being stuck in prison. I think because from

(01:08:45):
a from like a normal human perspective, you'd be happy
that your your father is alive, even if he's in
a prison, whereas Warf is like very upset about it
because so I think that there was a little disconnect there.
But yeah, a decent episode. I think this could have
been maybe even three separate episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
H thank you very much, anil O Palatte, Warf, bad Dad,
bad Son. All Right, the dark Lord Chris McGhee is here.
What's up, Chris? What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 5 (01:09:22):
Well, before I get in what I think, I'm going
to take Crafty Bear Carrie Schwintz's place for a moment
here and relay her thoughts by the place. She says,
hi to everybody. She's a little She's on seen a
show right now. She wanted to say that she thinks
the guest star, Christine Rose was well. She knows that
she was the mom on Heroes. She played the older

(01:09:45):
Kling on Lady Girral, but she was also Rory's other
grandmother on Gilmore Girls. Apparently she also recognizes this is
the second episode where a glass table is smashed by
a klingon the other was kay Laara and the Emissary,
and in both cases, Deanna entered shortly afterward, and she
also noticed the white booties on Basher as he walks

(01:10:07):
down that hallway. Her limerick, which is apparently inspired by
her favorite of the two stories, goes something like this,
I am having dreams and I'm not sure why. Maybe
I will give painting a try. New programming was triggered,
which came early. I figured it might be nice to

(01:10:30):
sometimes go offline.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
And then and now, Chris McGee.

Speaker 5 (01:10:40):
Here I a so yes, the obligatory crossover episode for
announcing to existing viewers that another show exists. Now seriously, though, Yeah,
this is a great episode in my opinion, and a
second two parter mid season unheard of. It has so
many memorable moments, and now now that we know that

(01:11:00):
data can dream, imagine the possibilities dot dot dot. Jason
had pointed out the inconsistency between two plots, and I
had thoughts about that, but I'll save that for our
review of the next episode. But I gotta know how
did the Uridians evolve when they have no opposable thumbs? Anyway,

(01:11:24):
as Mark had observed, if his voice wasn't so recognizable,
it would be almost impossible to tell that James Cromwell
is the actor playing Shrek. I think this marks his
second appearance on Start Shrick, but he's most known for
his fourth appearance dot dot dot. I have to give
kudos to Rick Holby for the directing and cinematography are

(01:11:46):
well done here, Like a couple of the rac focuses
with the foliage in the jungle, and especially in Warff
slams his hands on the horseshoe and it focuses on Troy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:56):
But I really appreciate those dream sequences, like Jason and
I think they couldn't have been more elaborate, but I
understand they had concernings to work within. But like the
wide angle lens on that low angle steady can as
Data walks through the quarters, was nice to convey the
dream likes, you know, a Beyonce there. Also, speaking of
his dream sequence, Data's first dream sequence lasted forty seven seconds.

(01:12:20):
I'm sure you all knew that though. Oh and a
few more images before I get to my memorable quote.
More Apparently, he is sure as popular with the ladies,
even if Boldly Woman likes his head Shrek. However, it
must not make much money selling his information. His clothes

(01:12:40):
are in rough shape and need a severe laundering, and
this one. I only know it was after just rewatching
it this last week. The interior of Shrek's ship is
clearly a redress of Rasmussen's time pod from a matter
of time, with its distinctive oblique angles.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Very nice.

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
That was cool. So regarding that memorable quote, I know
it may sound a little strange. I had this one
that is a memorable one, but certainly something that many
characters in movies and shows don't do when they should. Also,
it's kind of has a double meaning nowadays, so I
think it's even more topical now. And that's when Shrek says,

(01:13:22):
I recommend that you look up from time to time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Wow, very good, Thank you very much for that Star
Shrek review Chris McGee, thank you. And knocked Chuck A's
computer almost completely off his desk with that one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
The Matt boardman is back. What's up the Matt? What
do you think of this one?

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Yeo?

Speaker 11 (01:13:46):
So, just like Melissa, it's so good to be back
on DS nine in this episode, And I mean like
as soon as I started watching it, I was like,
oh my gosh, it just the nostalgic vibes were right there.
Plus now that this is remastered, this is the only

(01:14:07):
remastered footage of Deep Space nine in an official Star
Trek show, because we also saw some remastered footage in
What We Left Behind. But so freaking cool to be
able to see the promenade, to see the station as
they were meant to be seen.

Speaker 7 (01:14:24):
Love that.

Speaker 11 (01:14:25):
Love the Jay Chadaway score for this, And I think
it's so appropriate that they had j score for Data's
Dream episode, right because Jay's tones tend to be more earthy,
kind of grounded in a sense, and that a tribal
almost in a way, and that worked perfectly for Data's

(01:14:48):
dream sequence. And I absolutely love the Data Dream sequence.
I love the camera choices, you know, with the lens
that that gives us kind of a wider you know,
almost bending at the edges there to kind of offset
that this is not necessarily reality. And I also love
the crow because we get to see the Crow again

(01:15:10):
in Pocard season three, when Riiker, Wharf and Raffi go
to Daystrom the station and they encounter Data for the
first time, and I just, I don't know, it's fun
now that we're going back and we're watching this stuff
and to see later on that those are callbacks to these.

Speaker 5 (01:15:32):
Moments and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
So I just I don't know. I think it's really
a cool episode.

Speaker 11 (01:15:36):
To me, I agree. I would have loved for a
little bit more Data this episode, because next episode feels
like it's just entirely to Wharf, and I feel like
we could have maybe I love the interaction that we
get between Data and Wharf, but maybe pushed more of
Wharf toward the end of the episode as a bridge

(01:15:59):
to the set part of this and let us have
a little bit more data and Data and Bashir Like
what a cool combination, you know what I mean? Like,
I don't know, they just they just work so well.
So anyway, this I call this the PB and J
episode because I love me some PB and J, some
Deep Space nine and TNG. Put your hands together and

(01:16:19):
you got a good sandwich.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Put your hands together for the map boardman.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
That was awesome, all right. Jake's final take srock. Any
final thoughts on this episode, Uh oh you're.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Muted, Sorry about that. Yeah, a couple of final thoughts.
I feel like they should have mentioned Cisco at some
point or another. You can't be on his station and
not mentioned If I'm on the Enterprise, I'm going to
if Sisco were on the enterprise, they would mention the

(01:16:59):
cards someway either he's not here and I'm sorry for
Cardson's his regards. He couldn't be here because he's on
an away mission or something to that effect. You know,
just just a non appearance kind of mentioned would have
been sufficing at this moment. I think it just pays
respect to somebody else's territory. He should have just something
Cisco related. He's off doing this and that and wherever

(01:17:22):
he is, and that would have been enough for me.
I would have liked that. Number two. Yeah, I love
that Doctor Crusher had a girl's day plan for her stuff.
She was like, I'm about to get her bus facials,
I'm about to get the mails dud. She was like,
she said, spot day on on lot for her. And

(01:17:44):
I like that because it's just got to treat yourself
sometimes and es Nina is a good place to do that.
So I was happy to see that. Also, we finally
get an ennoign Lopez, you know, representing our Latino brothers
out there, and he gets scolded like crazy. You know,

(01:18:05):
it's like that was not the right way to introduce
our ensign Lopez, and I really felt bad for the
kind of tongue lashing that he took from war. I
like Troy's hair. She always she has the most hair
styles in this show. You know, we never know what
air do we're going to get with Troy. But I
like this one. It was it had nineties vibes to it,

(01:18:27):
but I still liked it. Yeah, I was waiting for
data to tell the year before you ask I'm fully
functional because like you're asking way too many questions, bro,
all right, so let's just get it over the way. Yeah.

(01:18:47):
I the oldest ensign that Jason mentioned. I thought that
was funny because we need to send that clip to
ensign Kim so he knows that's not alone. You know,
there's it's not alone. I'm not. I didn't think Wharf's
ninja outfit was that flattering. It just didn't look flattering

(01:19:07):
for his body and formed just they should have done
that fabric something. It just didn't look great to me.
So yeah, I would have definitely redone that and uh yeah,
that's that. That's pretty much. That's pretty much all my taps.
Oh yeah. The last thing I thought too was I

(01:19:30):
wanted to see Doctor Crusher and Doctor Bashir I want
to see the two doctors do doctoring talk and like
you know, like testing each other's you know, background or
whatever whatever the back and forth is between doctors that
they do. It would have been nice to see a
little bit of effort putting Bashir in with the engineers

(01:19:53):
and the data. I guess if it's the plotline, but
I also want to see how his men the talk
is with Bever. Feels like they missed an opportunity there,
And yeah, if you can do a crossover episode, you know,
I think having one advered character would have made a difference.
And I think that character could have been O'Brien. O'Brien

(01:20:16):
could have been walking a prusher and Picard on the
stage said, yes, this goes not here. You know, I was,
you know, I'm really liking my my you know, position
here or whatever, some some kind of walk and talk
with him.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
And that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
So I got.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Great stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Anybody noticed the Michael Jackson song title that Sarac used
in his uh final take.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
You know what else would have been cool real quick
is if we had Sarroc and Aaron's stand ins sitting
up with their feet dangling so that you know, they
just don't need to waste anybody's time time, you know,
with no lines or whatever, like any lead actors. But
like that way, the fans in the could see them

(01:21:06):
just in the background, just like feet dangling.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Camera passed by our kick it spot.

Speaker 5 (01:21:10):
I know it did.

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
It did feature our spiles those thinking, Hey, you guys,
owe me a residual payment for that, because I've made
that spot famous the best.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
All right, Melisa just got muted somehow too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
She said something cool.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
And yeah, all right, uh see dangling from there somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
That's it for us, everybody, unless you've got things left unsaid,
We're gonna nitpick the hell out of this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
At least I will, uh the Matt Boardman.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
Thank you, Chris McGee and Neil O Palatte, Mark Zutkoff,
Allison Leech, Hide, Chuck A, Jason m Oakin, Melissa p
Longo for myself, Sirac Melissa, mister Baron Eisenberg, and their
stand ins. We will see you next time, and until then,
always remember the seventh Rule.

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Good to See You, DS9 | TNG 6.16, "Birthright, part I" | T7R #373

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Good to See You, DS9 | TNG 6.16, "Birthright, part I" | T7R #373