Moriarty Returns! | With Daniel Davis | TNG 6.12, "Ship In A Bottle," | T7R #368 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sherlock Holmes program three to A has demonstrated some very
curious anomalies. Lieutenant Wharf can't launch four A class probes,
and Professor Moriarty is brilliant in any century. Hello everybody,
and welcome to the Seventh Rule.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
With sarrock Lofton.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, my name is Ryan T. Huskins.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Today we're doing a review of Star Trek the Next Generation,
Season six, episode twelve, Ship in a Bottle, Written by
Renee Etcheveria, directed by Alexander Singer. This was January twenty third,
nineteen ninety three. Where were you, everybody? We've got a
very special guest. He's brilliant in any century. It's the one,

(00:42):
the only, the legendary, mister Daniel Davis. How are you today, sir?

Speaker 4 (00:48):
I'm very well. Thank you for having me here.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
This is an absolute thrilled first.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, this is awesome. Yeah, we really appreciate you and
your work and the time you are spending with us today.
Let's just jump over. Let's just jump into this first
things First, sure, had you ever watched Star Trek before?
Did you know anything about Star Trek before you auditioned,
or did you just go in and say, hey, let's

(01:13):
see what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
No, I was with Star Trek from the very beginning.
I was there with William Shatner and Lennon Dee Boy.
It was science fiction has always been something that I
am drawn to and almost in any form, I will
watch it, and so I was a fan of Star Trek.
And then when Next Generation happened, it was very exciting

(01:37):
for me because, first of all, the whole concept of
the Next Generation was what was so extraordinary about it.
It had begun, of course with Roddenberry's sort of mandate
about diversity, and that was very appealing to me right
from the very beginning. And then because Patrick Stewart was

(02:02):
somebody who I knew from his work in the theater,
I thought, this is so brilliant to have, you know,
a Shakespearean actor playing Captain Picard. And so yeah, I
was really I was very aware of Next Gen. And
then when I got the call from my agents that

(02:27):
I was they wanted to see me for a role,
I was over the moon. So I remember that day
very well.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Wow, Yeah, I was. First, let me say, it's a
pleasure to meet you.

Speaker 5 (02:43):
I've heard your name spoken prior to this in conversations
where I hear Professor.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Moriarty, Professor Moriarty, and I'm like, this guy must be
big because he's made the impact.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
And so, you know, you hear titles of episodes, you
hear of characters that stick over the years, and the
chatter is amongst the fans almost eternally because they are
attached to these characters and they're impacted by these moments,
and so it was a real pleasure for me to
really see, oh, this is the moment where I get

(03:18):
to dive into a nice Professor Moriarty episode and get,
you know, the teeth of what he's about, and what
I really think he's about is an excellent adversary, let's say,
or a compliment to Picard as far as a challenge
to his intellect. And I believe that's what resonated most
to me about your performance.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
I enjoyed the wit, obviously, your voice.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Your delivery clearly emanates from the stage, and just all
of the presents that you brought, but clearly, for me,
the most.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Important was the.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
Gamesmanship, the outwitting, you know, and that's what I thought
was the best about your performance is because Picard data
rarely matched with a challenge that seems like somebody's out smartingen.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, it was that. I loved the first episode, Elementary
Dear Data was a great episode, but Ship in a
Bottle for me is one of the best episodes period
of Next Generation, and not because I'm in it, but
because of the concept of it, and from the very beginning,

(04:28):
the combination of the Conan Doyle mythology with the Star
Trek mythology was the perfect marriage as far as the
fans would be concerned. And the fact that Moriarty started
out as in the first episodes as a villain and
then things began to evolve for him as he began

(04:53):
to recognize his power, and it was a brilliant concept
that you know, he was well, I mean, he manages
to take over the ship from inside the Holidays. It's
pretty brilliant. And I loved because Patrick and I both
come from the stage, we had a kind of connection that,

(05:16):
you know, I mean, the other actors on the show
are are stage actors as well, but Patrick and I
have even played some of the same parts in the theater,
so really had a lot. Yeah, and we had a
lot to talk about, and I think there was a
mutual respect between us that showed through in our performances

(05:37):
with each other. And I don't know it just it
was magic. You know, everything about it was pure magic,
the writing.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, and I fully agree with you.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
And you know, I want to say, because you mentioned
that you think it's one of the best episodes of
Star Trek, and I want to agree to that point
because one of the things that it touched is on
is the becoming of sentient life, which is which is
you know respected. I think in Picard's you know, initial uh,

(06:12):
you know, confrontation with you, I think he's really respectful
of the idea that you may have become alive, right,
and you can see he doesn't want to uh.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
He was delicate with how to treat a new life.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
For exactly exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:28):
Yeah, So that was a great point as far as
just that debate in itself is something new.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
You know, that's a beautiful thing for scienfic.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
It's interesting too because uh Descartes who coined the phrase
cogito ergo sum I think therefore I am. But what's
interesting about that phrase is that the first part of
it is left off because in the actual quote he says,

(06:59):
dubit ergo cogito, cogito ergo soon. I doubt therefore, I think,
I think therefore I am. That's the original quote and
it is the I think part is the part that
appeals to the card, and it appealed to Geene Roddenberry

(07:22):
as well. There was an interesting thing that happened in
the very first episode. There's an exchange where I say,
then you must kill me, when he's saying if you
you know, I can't survive off of the holiday, and
the line that I had originally was then you must

(07:44):
do murder. And we shot it, finished it and left
and I finished the episode and went off and was
about to do something else when my agent called and said,
you have to come back because they want to reshoot
a line. And they had the set still there, and
I came back and I said, then you must kill me.

(08:07):
Because mister Roddenberry came down to the set that day,
which he very seldom did, according to Patrick, and he said,
I brought you back because I cannot have you say
that Picard could do a murder. And so this whole
I mean, that's how keen mister Roddenberry was on authenticity

(08:31):
for the characters and making sure that nobody ever committed
to doing something. It was like, you said to me,
we're going to have you back because Picard has promised
to find a way to bring you back, so we're
going to do another episode with you. And he said
it'll take a while, but we're going to do it.
And then they got into that whole mess when they
did Sherlock Holmes and the characters without permission from the

(08:58):
Conan Doyle Society, right, so it was a lawsuit. It
took two or three years to sab before I actually
got back to do another episode. But it was a big,
big maguilla that just an oversight, you know, that no
one really connects. Everyone assumed that it was in the
public domain because it had been fifty years since Colna Doyle,

(09:18):
more than fifty years since he had died, but that
wasn't the case. Anyway, I digressed. I'm sorry I got
off on a tangent.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Not at all.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
This is great stuff that I hadn't heard this before.
And Daniel, there was another aspect, you know, as Sarak
first mentioned one aspect of it, there was another aspect
that was really important to your character, which was self determination.
And that's a very admirable motivation. You are a villain.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
You are not only a villain.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
In the stories. You are basically the villain or certainly
the antagonist of this episode and of the characters. Yet
you have these aspects to your characters, and these your
character and these motivationtions that kind of stop us in
our tracks. It's very uh, you know, we can empathize

(10:08):
with this because the first thing we think is, well, yeah,
he should have self determination. Suddenly this guy doesn't seem
so bad. There's a lot of depth to your character,
and you played it so well. Do you remember thinking
this or reading the script and really thinking I can
definitely sink my teeth into it.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Yes. Can I tell you exactly why? Because having played
some pretty dastardly characters in Shakespeare, including Iago for example,
my philosophy about playing villains is that the villain is
the hero of his story. The villain does not know

(10:48):
that he is a villain. He is the hero to
his story. So he has depth, he has humanity, he
has a reason, and especially in this context, because without
his health determination, he is going to disappear. He's going
to cease to exist, and that is something that as

(11:11):
a sentient being which he clearly has been programmed to be.
And as you will recall, he's programmed by Jeordie to
be someone who can defeat data. So his intelligence is
that of you know, he's he has comprehends everything about
the ship. He knows everything about the enterprise how it works,

(11:33):
which is why he's able to function the way he is.
But all along he is wanting to stay alive, and
that is the driving force. So I think that that
that's my answer to your question, is that a villain

(11:53):
is only Yeah, a villain is a hero to himself.
He's only governments to other people who are trying to say,
you know, we can't have you in our lives and
in our culture. And you know there are there are
probably examples all over the world and all through history
of people that most of us considered to be villainous,

(12:15):
but they always had a point of view that we
never really gave much thought to.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
Absolutely, and let me also compliment you on the way
you delivered those lines in this episode, because I noticed
that you didn't have a temper or raise your voice
or act violently. You were very manipulative, manipulative in a
in a intellectual sophisticated way, and I thought that resonated

(12:45):
as well. For example, when you told the forage, I
sense a distressing lack of enthusiasm, and then you up
the stakes of everything, and I thought that was such
a clever. It was diabolical, but but so so pleasant

(13:07):
for me to watch you engage in.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
I don't know how else they say it's thank you.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
That's the other example of that was when you said
I have nothing to lose, Commander, when he said, you
know this is all going to we're all going to die,
and you're like, well, that seems like a you problem.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
You know, You're so right. A Renee script was so brilliant.
I mean, I don't know if he wrote it completely
by himself or if there was a group effort or whatever,
but his name is on it, so I give him
the full credit for having written an absolutely brilliant script. Yes,
and that touch of humor is also something that's you know,

(13:48):
it goes back to Conan Doyle as well. I mean,
I don't know how many of the Sherlock Holmes stories
are books that you have read, but he Moriarty is
a very clever man. It's not just that he is
a clever criminal. It's that he's a clever human being
and he has wit, he has charm, he has sex appeal,

(14:10):
he has a woman, and he's a very fleshed out
character in the books, and Renee managed to bring that
all those qualities into this episode. It was it was
like being in a play for me. It really felt
that way. Yeah. It was that well conceived, that well written,

(14:34):
that well directed and acted by everybody in the cast,
and so it did feel like we were doing a play.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
And Daniel the concepts is Oh, I'm sorry good.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
I was just going to say, you mentioned the lady,
the Countess Bartholomew. Yes, I have rarely seen a more charming,
better actress that just demanded that we watch her. She
was just blew me away. Can you tell us a

(15:08):
little bit about the actress Stephanie.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
Beach Stefanie Beacham, Yeah, I can't. I adored Stephanie. She
she has, you know, a long history on the stage
in England and a long history of television work and
as well in the States. In fact, she was on
Dynasty back in the eighties I think, and I did

(15:34):
seven episodes of Dynasty, but but never got to work
with Stephanie. So she brought that same sort of theatricality
that that I brought to the role, right And I
remember Patrick and I having a funny discussion about what

(15:55):
to call her because her name in this was written
R E G I N A uh. And I said,
are we going to call her Regina or Regina? And
he said, well, what do you think? And I said, well,
you know, I don't want it to sound like Vagina.
And he said, no, we don't want that. But I said,

(16:17):
you know, it's interesting because the only character in literature
right off the top of my head that I could
think of at that point was Regina Giddons, who is
the villainess in The Little Foxes by Lillian Hellman. And
then I said, so that's American pronunciation would be Regina,
but Queen Victoria was known as Victoria Regina, so I

(16:41):
think we maybe should call her Regina and he said, okay,
just make sure it's always.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Reagina real hard get that R.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
That's how we ended up calling her, but most of
the time we just called it the countess.

Speaker 5 (17:00):
Yeah, that name stood out heavily for me.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I thought, well, they're really committing to this pronunciation, so.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
It was. It was a funny conversation to have with Patrick,
I tell you, And there wasn't anybody you know, else
to talk to about it at that point. We had
to make a decision right then and there, so it
ended up being Regina.

Speaker 5 (17:26):
You mentioned Geen roden Berry, and it's very rare that
I think anybody comes here and says that they had
conversations with Gene Rodenberry outside of the Next Generation cast
right and the original series. But you know, tell me
about that interaction, Like, was that something that was you
did you know him prior or did he introduce himself

(17:47):
or was his character something personal that meant more to
like I.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Think they were. You know, I'm going by things that
I've been told by Brand and George and LeVar and
even Patrick that this the two episode, the two of
Sherlock Holmes episodes were very special to mister Roddenberry because

(18:14):
he had grown up on the stories in the mythology
and when somebody pitched the idea, he was over the
moon for it. So I think it was something that
he really wanted to get right and he wanted to
do it well so that the as I said earlier,
the fans of that mythology would be pleased to see it.
And so, I mean, the depiction that Brent gave of

(18:37):
Holmes was so wonderfully accurate, and you know that sort
of you know, grandiosity that Holmes has in the books,
and so everything about that was working. His visit to
the set happened the second time that I mean, that
happened the time that I went back to do a

(18:58):
reshoot and we had we had just rehearsed the moment,
and it was clear that mister Roddenberry must have been
watching in his office on the monitor or something, because
the next thing I knew, Patrick said, hang on just
a minute, we have a visitor. And my back was

(19:19):
to his entrance and I didn't and so I turned around,
and I'd never seen a picture of him, I'd never
met him. I didn't know. And he came right up
to me, took my hand and said, I'm Jeene Roddenberry.
I just want to welcome you back, and I have
this line change that's very important. And then he said,
and besides, Picard has promised you in this episode that
he will bring you back, and Picard never lies. And

(19:44):
I thought, wow, So I thought, well, I'll wait and
see and indeed, as I've already mentioned, it took several
years for it to happen. But fortunately for me, I
always wore my hair really really long back in the eighties,
so I still had the hair when I got the
call to come and do Ship in a Bottle, and

(20:06):
I thought, thank god, Bob Blackman would kill me if
I'd had a haircut.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
And and I had.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
The irony was is that I had just signed to
do The Nanny and we were about to shoot the
pilot about two weeks after I came back to do
Ship in a Bottle, so I hadn't cut my hair
off yet for the Butler perfect, which was saving grace. Yeah,
so amazing. The only thing I didn't have this time

(20:35):
I had gray hair when they brought me back to
be on Star Trek the card and I thought, do
Holidack creations get old.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
In sci fi? Anything happens, they can explain anything away.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
And you a full circle story though, yeah, yeah, the.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Full circle story is about my appearance on Elsbeth.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
As Doctor Yablonski.

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yes, Doctor Yablonski. I've done one episode in each of
their seasons. Now this is their third season, and I've
come back for the third season in the same character.
But the full circle about it is that in nineteen
eighty five I was at the Williamstown Theater Festival and
I was playing General Bergloin in the Devil's Disciple of

(21:19):
George Bernard Shaw play, playing opposite Richard Thomas and Tom
Atkins and Patricia Clarkson's first job out of school and
Dylan Baker's first theater job out of Yale. So it
was a very good cast. But in those days, the
artistic director did not use union people to build sets

(21:41):
and costumes. He charged young students to come and work
as apprentices all summer long, and they made the close,
they made the sets, they did everything. And he assigned
me a young guy who had just graduated from high school,
literally just gotten out of twelfth out of the twelfth grade,
and was about to be a freshman at Yale where

(22:02):
mister Sakaroppa was the artistic director was still was teaching.
And so this young man was assigned to me to
be my dresser because I had a very elaborate wig
that had to be reset after every performance and a
British Revolutionary Officers general's costume that had to be you know,
steamed and cleaned every after every performance. This young man

(22:26):
is now the showrunner of Elsbeth.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Yes, his name was Jonathan Tolans. He was my dresser
in nineteen eighty five and he now is the showrunner
of Elsbeth. And I did a zoom audition for an
episode and sent it in. My agents sent it in,
and three days later my phone rang, and I've had
John in my phone ever since, and we've not seen

(22:52):
each other that much, but he became a very successful
playwright and also stayed in touch with emails at holiday
and so forth. And the phone rang and I looked
and it said John Tolan's and I said, John Tolans,
my god, I haven't heard from you in an age.
And he said, I know. Don't you think it's about
time you come to work for me?

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Fantastic?

Speaker 4 (23:14):
So he hired me for that. And he has this
thing that is he's trying very hard to do with
this series. He's trying to bring back characters in the
same roles except for the villains. He's bringing back people
who've been on the show in the first and second
seasons to just do a scene. I went in and

(23:35):
I did one scene a couple of weeks ago with
Carrie Preston, who is the most delightful person in the
world to work with. And so it's I think it's
the episode number five of season three, but that's the
three hundred and sixty degrees. It's sort of like that
old saying from AC you've heard it. I know you
have be nice to the people on the way up
because you'll meet the same once on the way down.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, you never know who'll be working for. And yeah,
a full circle. You had somewhat of a full circle
in Star Trek as well, with a different showrunner season
three of Star Trek Picard. I don't think you ever
expected to hear that phone ring again for Star Trek.
I don't know if you're aware, but if fans went

(24:19):
ballistic when there was a trailer yes with your voice,
and we were like, are you kidding me? Right now?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
We all went nuts.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Did you go half as nuts when you got the call?

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Oh? I went twenty times as nuts. And I'll tell
you why. When I read that Patrick was coming back,
I got very excited. First of all, all I had
to hear was and I was in tears. I mean
the first episode because I just devoted to the series,

(24:52):
and I devoted to him and his characterization as I
am to all of them. They're such a wonderful group
of actors and people. And I started thinking to myself,
wouldn't it be interesting if I got a call to
do it? And I kept my fingers crossed, and I
kept thinking, it's going to happen. First season over no call,
second season over no call. And so the mid it

(25:16):
was December of twenty twenty one. We were in the
middle of COVID and my phone rang. I've told this
story so many times, but my phone rang, I said
to her it was my agent, my agent's boys. Do
I know? Right away? He said, we've heard from Star
Trek And I said yes. He said, don't you want
to know what? I said, it doesn't matter, it's whatever

(25:36):
it is. It's a yes. And so he said, all right,
I'll let them know. So they did. It was it
was all about Terry Metallis. I found out later that
Terry was a huge fan of moriogy of those episodes,
and he was in that third season starting to bring

(25:57):
back I mean, he brought back the whole basically most
of the cast from the original series and he wanted
to bring back characters that in his mind stood out
for you know, with the fans and their feelings about it.
So so I flew out, and of course I was.
I think the limo driver gave me a COVID test

(26:19):
in the car before before I had. I had more
things up my nose than usual during that period, and
it it was. And I never met Terry until we
were in Las Vegas, and I just went over and
hugged him and thanked him and said, you know, you've
you made my day. I had written a scenario in

(26:41):
my head that the episode was going to be about
Picard fulfilling his promise to me to make me a
real boy finally. So that was what I had written
in my head. And of course I never saw the
complete script. I saw my sides, and I couldn't make
hens or tails of who I was in those sides

(27:03):
because I thought, this isn't the Moriarty that the way
we ended it, because he's gone back now to being
a villain. He's there with a gun pointing, shooting guns
at people, and that's that's not the Moriarty that we
had before. And I didn't know till I watched the
episode literally what it was about. I knew what I
was doing my function in it, but you know, it

(27:28):
was calling everybody's attention to where data was and leading
them to data who they were missing. And so I
was giving, you know, Jonathan Frake's character clues about I'm
here to help you find data, however I have to
do it. If I have to shoot you to do it,
I will. But that was sort of what what the

(27:53):
my episode was about, which I really put together when
I sat down several months later to watch it away.
It was exactly Pinocchio time, was it?

Speaker 2 (28:03):
There's still timing?

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Well, yeah, definitely. Watching you has been one of the
great joys of this show.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
And I would say that, you know, honestly, you're you're
probably my favorite villain on the Next Generation, and I
know people will have a lot of debate for that
and argue their.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Other very beloved character.

Speaker 5 (28:28):
I would say that you are my favorite because because
I like complex characters, I like smart characters, I like
witty characters. And then I thought also that the real
twist on this episode was that you had a dream
to to find you know, to be with your love
and go back to Earth, and that was well that's

(28:49):
kind of not.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
A yeah, that's not the worst thing.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I can kind of like can totally relatable.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Right, that's reasonable.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
Yes, I mean it's it's extremely human of him to
put it back. I mean, it's just he wanted everything
that they had. It's what he kept saying to them,
I want what you have. It's interesting because I thought
there could be, you know, someday, maybe there would even
be a follow up to what was it. Yeah, it

(29:21):
was Harker who said, go to Meris too. They're they're
nice people there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
I thought they were follow up too, Yes, yeah, And I.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Thought, wouldn't it be interesting? But then Stephanie god Lover.
Stephanie came to a convention three years ago. Maybe it
was the first time she'd been invited. That was the
first time she came. She was absolutely appalled by it.
She just said, what the hell? These people are insane
and she.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Just welcome the fandom.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
I said, this is this is your family, girl, These
are you know, people who love you. And she has
retired completely from the profession. She lives in Majorca and
she will not leave home. So I think she's been
invited back several times and she just thanks them kindly

(30:14):
and says no at least, I mean.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Well, why would you want to leave my orca anyways, there,
but Daniel, this has been the thrill of a lifetime.
It's been so wonderful to have you. Incredible character, incredible actor.
You've charmed us out of our seats, both as an
actor and as a guest on our show. We can't
say enough of our appreciation for you. So thank you

(30:40):
very much for hanging out with us for a bit.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
Oh, it's been my total pleasure. I hope to see
you at some conventions. I hope to meet you in
person and we can sit down and have another chat someday.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, it's gonna be great. All right, everybody stick around.
We've got a lot more coverage of this episode. Will
be right back on the Seventh Rule. Hello, everybody, Welcome
back to the Seventh Rule with Siroc Frickin' Loft and Hello.
Here are the trivioids of the week, everybody, They go

(31:12):
a little something like this. By the way, God, Daniel
Davis was just the coolest guy ever. You're like basking
the afterglow of hanging out with Daniel Davis for the
last fifteen minutes. So here are the trivioids. Sherlock Holmes
Program three A has demonstrated some very curious anomalies. The
Enterprise has arrived at the Detyrian sect. I can't even

(31:33):
say this. The Enterprise has arrived at the Detrian system
to observe a unique celestial event, the collision of two planets.
Captain Picart tosses a book out of the Holidack. Professor
Moriarty recognizes policemen in any century. Professor Moriarty would like
to go above deck of the Enterprise. Lieutenant Wharf can't
launch four Class A probes. A deadline has a wonderful

(31:54):
way of concentrating the mind. Professor Moriarty is brilliant in
any century. Countless sorry, Countess Regina Regina Bartholomew went on
safari in Africa with her uncle. Captain Picard. Can see
Countess Bartholomew is a woman not only of breeding, but
of wit and sagacity. I had to look that one up,

(32:16):
all right, So you know, Soraka, I'm gonna be honest
with you. This is another one of those episodes that
really kind of grew on me this time around, so
much so that I feel like this episode took the

(32:36):
biggest leap up of any episode that I had seen
in the past. You know, in the past, you see something,
you remember it, you think about it. I hadn't seen
it in twenty years or whatever it's been maybe once
in the last twenty five years. I watched it again
today and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not
only this is this a good concept that I remembered

(32:58):
and liked, but I actually just enjoyed the episode through
and through. The guest stars were unbelievable. However, you've never
seen it before, so I really want to know, what
did you think of this episode?

Speaker 4 (33:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (33:15):
This was Look, anytime you get Barkley in an episode,
it's nice, you're getting something good.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
It's like, all right, off top, it's a tree.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
It's as soon as as soon as they said Barkley's names, like,
is this a nam Barkley or is this are we
getting another because you're right, Barkley episodes or quality episodes.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
Right So right away, as soon as I see him,
I'm like, Okay, this is going to be good. You know,
my wheels are spinning. So I'm thinking, where do we
lease last see Barkley? What is his mental state at
this point, because you know, he's up and down and
you never know which Barkley you are going to get,
right he is he settled into his role or are

(33:58):
their imaginations of things going on in his mind? So
part of me actually thought that this was going to
be more Barkley centered, because I thought Barkley was going
to be going to the captain to say, hey, Moriarty
is actually real, and when they go to check, he's not,
and and.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
You know, and it's another nutty Barkley episode.

Speaker 5 (34:18):
Oh that's Barkley, Yeah, exactly. He's always making things up
in his head or whatever. And so I thought that's
where we were going in the.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Beginning when they brought Barklay to uh.

Speaker 5 (34:30):
So I was actually surprised that he actually went you know,
this played out for real because and he really wasn't too.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Elementary to the story so much.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
It was just say elementary elementary idea.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
So yeah, I thought, I thought this episode was fantastic.
I hadn't seen it before.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
You know, definitely see Moriarty before that other Sherlock episode
we saw h But again, like I told mister Daniel
Davis that I think that his performance was excellent and
he you know, there's moments when you're cheering for him,
and there's moments when you're and to me, that's like
the Goldlukot effect. There's moments when I'm watching ducat where

(35:17):
he's making a reasonable, rational request that is understandable and
relatable to almost any sentient being. Like you're like, Okay,
he's a father who's caring for his daughter or whatever
the moment is, and you start to see some humanity
in him.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
And I think that this Moriarty.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
Character had much more of that actually, as far as
humanity in him. You know, there was a level of
it looked like he wasn't trying to play a game.
That was the beautiful setup of.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, the earnestness of it that he's coming out. He's
just like, look, by any means necessary, I want my life,
I want my freedom, I want my pursuit of happiness,
and either you give it to me or I figure
out a way to make you give it to me.
And it's all very as you said, reasonable, it's understandable,

(36:18):
it's relatable, we get it. And before we get into that,
though a little bit more on Barkley, I liked that
this was not a Barkley centric episode. Now, Barkley is
one of my favorite characters, but what this tells you
is the episode doesn't have to be about Barkley. In fact,
it's better that it's not, because that means he's now

(36:40):
part of the crew. He can now be this recurring
character where it's not just like a one note or
a one trick pony.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Where he is the anomaly exactly.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Now he's part of the solution. He's part of the team.
He's part of the crew. He's not the wrench and
the spokes.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
You know, yes, yes, So that was a pleasure for
me because you know, I like to see him act,
but I also like to see him being involved in
the solution as well.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
So perfect for me.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
Look, like I said, he comes out in the initial
Moriarty appearance with Barkley. In that scene, Moriarty is saying, yes, well,
I don't want you know, he's not playing the Shakespeare
game at this moment. I mean, not Shakespeare, the the
Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
He's not. This is not about solving a crime.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
We're not talking about the elizabeth Ian period or this
period or that or not. This isn't about you know,
trying to stump you. It was literally about his own freedom,
his own you know, sentient experience. And so that's where
I mentioned to Daniel about I liked how Picard and

(37:52):
it was interesting for him to say how much rowden
Berry was protecting Pericard's legacy.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
And that's what I noticed is on the if you've
noticed when we've been doing.

Speaker 6 (38:03):
The recordings and I keep highlighting how they're writing for Picard,
I keep saying, if you want your captain to look good,
if you want him to look righteous, if you want
him to look moral and principled, and these are the ways.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
This is how you're supposed to write for your captain.
And you can see they are protecting Pericard based on
what Daniel was talking about with roden Berry's statement that
Picard never lies, right, so he was protecting his integrity
of truth telling, Like even though he told you this
four years ago or whatever season it was, you know,

(38:38):
he's still going to honor his word because he doesn't lie.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
He doesn't say I'll do something and he doesn't do it.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
So that's a reputation thing. That's protecting Pericard's reputation. That's
what roden Berry is doing in that moment, with that
keeping of a promise. And the second thing he's doing
is also honoring and respecting life form. When Moriarty makes
the declaration that I am life that I think therefore

(39:06):
I am in mind over manner.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
And suddenly Picard needs to take this seriously.

Speaker 5 (39:12):
So Picard can no longer just say computer and program right,
make this go away really quick.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Now, It's like, hold on.

Speaker 5 (39:19):
Our mission objective is to explore new life. Our mission
objective is to engage with, explore and find new life
and see what that experience is about.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
And so it becomes priority number one.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
To to protect this possible new life form.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Right, absolutely, And I appreciate you saying things like that,
because this is just further opening my eyes to the
beauty of this episode. That is their principle guiding you know, mantra. Right,
And even if we the viewers, and Picard the captain,
and Data the android that knows everything, even if everybody says, no,

(40:06):
this guy's wrong, he's just a Holid Deck character. It's
not true, it's not real. We'll figure it out. Just
the fact that he's saying this, they have to explore this.
They you know, it's like a doctor who's got a
dying patient, and they say, hey, we've got this exploratory
thing that might say the life. You can't just say no,

(40:27):
I mean this is it your your entire job. Is
this one thing? You have to take it seriously? This
proclamation seriously. And I think that's a really good point.
Is that stops Picard in his tracks. He says, Okay, well,
we gotta we have to address this. And you know,
also in what I was saying earlier, I mean, I

(40:49):
love Regina like she was. That was something I mean
when I what's so funny I do? I love Regina?
And when I look back at this, when I look
back at this episode, I remember how smart this episode
was because what made it so intelligent, you know, on

(41:12):
the surface, was just this idea of the holodeck within
the holid deck. And then even at the end, Barkley
has that amazing moment where he just kind of goes
computer and program. He's like, okay, just making sure. You know,
we all kind of do that. You know, we all
do that with Barkley some dead we're like, let me
just make sure. But and I remember, you know, the
two characters, you know, Moriarty and Regina, Countess Bartholomew. But

(41:37):
what I did not remember, or what I just realized
today was just how amazing that actress is. What was
his name, Stephanie Beacham. I'm watching her and clearly she's
classically trained, you know, clearly she's theatrical. But and her character,
you know, doesn't get explored a ton, but she is

(42:00):
acting the hell out of that character every millisecond that
she is on the camera. She had a little bit
of Jonathan Frakes in her in that she assumes that
the camera's picking up every single reaction she's doing because
she's right. And I could not stop watching her with

(42:21):
every it's she has. And sorry, I'm going on a
lot on this, but she has the thing that I've
seen one other time, and it was with Michelle Hurd,
where the two of them, it's almost as if they
have their life force or their positive energy that just
precedes them, that's right in front of them, and you're

(42:42):
watching their positive energy or their good energy, or they're
theatrical energy that's right in front of them. Because they
put out there it's like they've got their soul right
there bared in front of you.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
And I'm watching this lady do this, and I was.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Just really blown away by her charm, by her expressions,
by her willingness to just give it all to us
and the camera. I was just really impressed. And I
completely missed that the previous time or times that I
watched this, So shame on me for that, But big
kudos to her for really giving it to us. I

(43:24):
told you, I love Regina.

Speaker 7 (43:26):
I can see it was amazing, Like Regina blew you away.
Let me just say, you know, I did think she
had an amazing performance, and there is something really.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Magnetic about her performance, right.

Speaker 5 (43:45):
You know, But in general, I thought this entire episode
had that for me. We always talk about Brent Speiner,
but like when Brent Speiner makes a switch from the
Sherlock voice back to the data voice, it's so seamless. Ye,
it's so it's it's so amazing right to me, because
he's using this this accent that sher logets a slightly

(44:08):
British accent, you know, it's very and then he switches
into the robot accent, which is not even his normal voice.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
So both of these are not his normal.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Kind of like when he was doing the Western and
he was just flipping back and forth there.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Yeah, so you know that's not his normal talking voice.

Speaker 5 (44:27):
So he's going from one artificial talking voice back to
the dominant artificial talking voice of data. So I just
think he's an amazing actor as well. We saw Daniel
talk about that briefly, but you know.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
He had Picardon here just making some great moments, and.

Speaker 8 (44:45):
I you know, at some point there's a moment when
you start to suspect what is real, right, because when
when the fake Jordie was being quiet while they were talking,
I was like, all right, he's definitely not the Jordan,
because the real Jordan wouln't just d.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
And they're like, can you excuse us, Jordan? He's just
like okay, They're like, okay, clearly going on here.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Yes, Yes, that was funny.

Speaker 5 (45:11):
And then and then part of me was thinking, is
that the real Boo Guard, don't you know?

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Like now I'm thinking who is real? You know what
I mean?

Speaker 5 (45:22):
So that was great, But then we got to see
that deductive gate that they played. They basically tricked the computer,
which is you know, they tricked Moriarty in his own game,
which is super smart because he doesn't know that he
got tricked even that's the other.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
He's living out his happy ending so to speak.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
Yeah, so it's it's pretty yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
His happy ending with his love Resina.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Right, and so they're off exploring the cosmos and Barkley.
At any point can just plug that into the holidayck
and we can check in on them, be like, what's
up with the guys, where have you been? What have
you been up to? And they're like, oh, we we've
taken over the dominion.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
We're like sure, yeah, bro, exactly exactly. So, yeah, that
was a great story, great ending. The perfect Star Trek
for me.

Speaker 5 (46:15):
This is this, you know, it checks all the boxes
for good Star Trek. It might, I agree, makes you think.
It takes you on a nice journey, right, And notice
over the top with the shape, with the Sherlock stuff,
it wasn't too overly Sherlock. It wasn't overly anything. Actually,
it was pretty believable all around.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
You didn't need a battle, you didn't need war or
aliens or anything. I mean, this is a bottle episode,
a ship in a bottle episode, and.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
You know, no fight scenes.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
It didn't at.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
No point did it get slow or boring. It was interesting,
it was charming, It was fun. It had some aha moments,
there were good twists, I mean, no notes.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
You know, this is long intro too as well.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
One of I noticed that, as far as the just
the geometry of how they put the episode together, the
intro the opening scene was rather long for an opening scene.
And sometimes it's just I think last time we were
watching an episode and it was just like Picard, you've
been relieved of your job, and.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
That's a six second intro. H speaking of six seconds,
time for the home run of today's episode. Please at home,
don't try to figure out what I meant by that,
because I didn't mean anything. I was just trying to
do a segue. Who gets the home run of today's
episode srock Lofton.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
I'm gonna go ahead and just give it to our
professor Moriarty.

Speaker 5 (47:47):
Uh, I think it's I think it's Daniel Davis's performance
was just exceptional in this. I think he's just masterful.
I would say, you know, as far as the most
memorable kind of villains that I can think of on
this show, it would be him and Q. You know,
I know, maybe Q is not a villain per se,

(48:08):
but let's say antagonist. I would say, He's up there
as far as all time, interesting, dynamic, well acted, well
written for characters who play antagonists in this show.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
So I want to give it to Home Run too,
mister Daniel Davis.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, me too, easy answer. I mean the writing was beautiful.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
It was perfect.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Again, like I said, no notes, but Daniel Davis gave
us a performance that is so memorable that three thousand
people will give him a standing ovation. You know.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
You know what I want to add.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
I want to add one other one too, Renee et Chavaria.
You know, we didn't say his name enough, but you
know he wrote this episode.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
The language that you know, the dialogue was amazing.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
I really loved the whole Like you you mentioned Stephanie
Beacham's performance, but when she starts talking about going to
Africa and having warm trousers, the whole trip and just yeah,
that was really nice. It was interesting, you know, and
then just the backstory and the language of this was excellent,
you know. So I want to give her Ana some
you know, a lot of huge credit for just giving

(49:25):
us a very well developed, well rounded I couldn't find
any holes in this episode.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
It just it was just well completed.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
It was complete and and had message in it and
a great ending as well.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Completely agree.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Also got to give a secondary home run to Stephanie
Beacham like I said, I was not prepared for I
because I didn't remember it, but I watched her.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
I was like, oh my god, she is well. I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Exactly what I put in my notes, but I said,
I said, Regina is so fucking charming that I said,
I just like, I don't know why I didn't realize
this before, but she was phenomenal, So great stuff all around,
What a good episode. Here are some other people that

(50:15):
are great all around and extremely charming. Their names are
doctor Anne, Marie Siegel, Eve England out in Wales, You've
got Blackman, Tom t J. Jackson, Bay Out in Missouri,
Titus Mueller, doctor Mohammad Nora, and you'll oh Palatch, Joe Balsarati,
Mike Goo, doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent, Faith Howell, the

(50:36):
mat Boardman, Chris McGee, Jake Barrett, Henry Hunger, Allison Leech Hide,
Julie Manosfi, Jed Thompson, doctor Susan V. Gruner, Glenn Iverson,
Dave Gregory, Chris Sternett, Greg k Wickster Mountain, Hawaii, Cassandra
g Chuck A, Chris Garris, and mister charm himself Jason h.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Oakin.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
All right, everybody, stick around, We've got much more to
discuss on the Free for All. We will be right
back on the Seventh Rule. Well, hi there, everybody, Welcome
back to the Seventh Rule with Sarak Lofton. This is
the Free for All with Melissa L. Lungo and her

(51:20):
packard shirt. Alison leech Hide is also here. Oh, she's
wearing a shirt by Walking Art made by Melissa as well.
Carrie Schwent literally just gave us the play by play
on the final moments of the regular season for the
Chicago Cubs.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
She's right outside of Wrigley Field.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Chuck A is wearing an authentic Seventh Rule shirt, and
the Dark Lord Chris McGee has his isolinear Chip Seventh
Rule shirt as well. All right, Jake Cisco guesses the
IMDb score.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I'm gonna go around at eight point five?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Interesting? Interesting?

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Does anybody else have any guesses that doesn't already know?
Melissa has the worst proker face ever eight point two
with eight three sarrock Lofton. That sound means that you
hit exactly correct. Five there it is magic and Chuck

(52:29):
and Chris warning are off either, all right. Non appearance mentions.
There was a Sherlock Holmes mention, but we've never seen
Sherlock not played by Data, so I don't think that's
a non appearance mentioned.

Speaker 9 (52:45):
I got one. Maybe Melissa too. And now he says
he tells Barkley about his hostage. That would be that
would be doctor Pulaski.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Yes, yes, you are so right, you guys.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
That's perfect. That's a great one. I didn't even think
of that.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I'm gonna edit this later and make it seem like
I remembered that this is.

Speaker 10 (53:10):
The last in the series.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Yeah, oh, Pulaski really great.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
But in my head, Cannon, Pulaski is actually serving with
Jellico on the Cairo. That's in my head, Cannon, because
I think the two of them would actually be a couple,
Jellicoe and Pulaski.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, he loves four duty shifts and she's like, as
many shifts as you want, bro exactly, that's what she says,
Do we have any I don't know what that means
any uh. Some kinds of her, some sorts of Chris McGee.

Speaker 11 (53:51):
I didn't hear any of this time around, all right.

Speaker 12 (53:55):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
And he says, I prefer a certain format on the bridge,
and she's like, I'll be as formal as you want, sir,
all right, So I don't know what that means either, Melissa.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Will you please get a start off on the right
track by telling us what you thought of this episode?

Speaker 12 (54:15):
He enjoyed this episode.

Speaker 13 (54:17):
Oh my gosh, I had so much fun watching this episode.

Speaker 12 (54:21):
I could watch it.

Speaker 13 (54:22):
Again and again and again for several reasons. One being Berkley,
two being Data, three being Moriarty, four being Picard, and
five being the amazing Countess Resina or following me. Oh
my gosh, she was fantastic. I just loved her.

Speaker 12 (54:47):
I loved her in the scene where she was telling
Barkley about her trip to Africa and how she made
him giggle a couple of times, and it was so
cute and to rewinded a couple of times because the.

Speaker 14 (55:02):
Way she said TITSI fly and then the way it
was so freaking cute. And I like that Barkley was
included in the episode. But it wasn't a Barkley problem.
He was part of the solution, which made a lot

(55:23):
of sense. And Moriarty was great.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
Oh and I.

Speaker 12 (55:28):
Learned a new word, sagacity. It's like that's fancy. Thoroughly
enjoyed this episode. There was something else I was going
to mention, but I forgot what it is. However, Eve
said that she thoroughly enjoyed this episode two and she

(55:54):
also mentioned that she misses doctor Pulaski.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Oh, come on, nobody said that. You've said that, just kidding.

Speaker 15 (56:06):
Oh, but there's a lot more to say in things
left unsaid. Oh, I have some questions for things left unsaid,
So if you're a patron, look for that. If you're
not a patron, become a patron so you can watch it.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Great stuff as always, Thank you very much, Melissa Longo,
Alison Leech Hide, I d S.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
What do you think of this episode?

Speaker 12 (56:37):
It is a.

Speaker 10 (56:37):
Fun episode, you know, we're kind of led down one
path and revealed to be over here and keeps you
guessing and wonderfully acted by everyone. And I cancur that
the Countess is like such a fun surprise. She is wonderful.
I think Stephanie Beacham did a great job as the

(56:58):
Countess and was kind of like the highlight for me
because she was wonderful and great hat. I mean, sometimes
an entire character can just be in a hat, and
I'm sure wearing that hat was great.

Speaker 4 (57:12):
And yeah, I mean.

Speaker 10 (57:14):
When Data figures out that they're still in the holidack
just by throwing something to Jordie like, that's not right.
My friend doesn't do that, like, no, easy. Both of
us wouldn't notice, you know, like that, but Data would.
So I thought that was that was a nice catch.
And like the first time I watched this episode, I

(57:36):
mean way back, you know, as a child, I still
remember when Barkley says, all Sherlock files. I'm like, no,
don't do that. Why didn't Jordie say not all of
the ones, don't touch the ones and protected memory do
the others. If he just would have had a little
heads up on this, we wouldn't have gotten this episode.

(57:56):
But it's a fun episode. I think it's really clever
to how they use the ship in the bottle to
make a ship in a bottle and save the day.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
So enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
It is a ton one mm hmm, thank you very much,
Allison Leech Hide all right, Chuck A is a TNG fanatic,
but is he a fanatic about this particular episode.

Speaker 9 (58:21):
Well, this episode is always one of my favorites. It
was such a great script. The holid deck in the
Holidck in the Holidack was a fantastic idea there. Dwight
Schultz was wonderful as Barkley again, and as Melissa mentioned,
it wasn't necessarily a Barkley episode entirely. I'd love the

(58:46):
last scene where Picard says, well, maybe this is the
we're actually on somebody's desk in a cue in a
cube and we're actually a part of a holideck itself,
and then at the end that Barkley says, computer and program.

(59:07):
It was just it was such a good scene, the
Moriarity bit where he comes at the first part of
the episode where he disappears and then comes right back,
and you know you said to yourself, well, let's see
what he has up his sleeve, because you know you
can tell by the expression on his face. The Countess

(59:31):
was just wonderful. As Melissa mentioned, I love the data
figuring out what was going on with with the with
Leforge and then the the information that wasn't on the
transporter log i thought Brett Speiner was just amazing. Again.

(59:55):
It only did a little bit of the Sherlock Holmes,
not as much as the prior epist so, but he
was really good in that. I really enjoyed this episode
of one of the highlights of the sixth season.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Absolutely, thank you very much. Chuck A aka t ANDNG fanatic.
Chris McGee is the dark Lord. He also has some
thoughts on this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
I bet indeed I do. I agree.

Speaker 11 (01:00:19):
It is a superb, if long overdue continuation of elementary
dear data. Just absolutely worth the wait. As Chuck mentioned,
you know that holodeck within a holodeck within a holiday concept.
It is so great and it reminds me a bit
of twenty ten's inception. I wonder if it may have
been at least a partial influence on that film. I

(01:00:41):
love that Moriarty, despite his pledge of being reformed, stays
true to character as a brilliantly evil mastermind that almost
outwits his opponents. Speaking of the guest stars, Daniel Davis,
of course, as you well know, once again plays Morety
with the perfect mix of charm and ruthlessness, desperate enough

(01:01:02):
to hold a thousand people hostage. Just so he can
be with his true love.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Now.

Speaker 11 (01:01:08):
I will say there are moments where Daniel seems to
act a bit like he's on a theater state. But
maybe that's just the writing, or I'm just over analyzing
his performance. That's probably pretty likely.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 11 (01:01:19):
Like everyone else, I love seeing Stephanie Beacham as the Countess.
I think she did a fantastic job. I also think
she displayed a similar level of cunning and guile as Moriarty,
but hid it pretty well from Picard In Barkley and
of course, speaking of my favorite recurring character, Lieutenant Barkley.
As usual, Dweitschultz plays his character perfectly and he really

(01:01:42):
solidifies himself here as the go to Holidack guy, which
just might come into play in the future. Moriarty's claim
that he was aware of time passing while he was
in stored memory raises a whole slew of questions. I'd
love to know the answers, but only if he was
actually telling the truth about that. One never knows, and

(01:02:06):
I'm sure there was no accident that Morey already says
at one point, I'm afraid I can't do that, echoing
how nine thousand from two thousand and one in Space
Odyssey and fine, I love that the card almost breaks
the fourth wall in that final scene, which is a
delightful way to end this episode where questioning reality is
so prevalent. Memorable quote that came away with me. I

(01:02:31):
love the quote, even though I hate the implications of it,
even if it's often true. And that's where we're already saying,
a deadline has a wonderful way of concentrating the mind.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Ain't that the truth?

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Gus? Great stuff as always, dark Lord, thank you very
much for that. So Carrie Schwentz says she wanted to
go last to give the crowd a chance to thin out.
But I bet it's not that thin yet, is it
not a ton?

Speaker 16 (01:02:56):
But it's definitely a bit louder. So hopefully you guys
can and hear me. Okay, we had to be here,
be here, be here for this, and the day were
still going.

Speaker 17 (01:03:07):
I had a I put out.

Speaker 16 (01:03:09):
Inside the stadium that probably wouldn't have been a big
wires in this, but we we were the teams and
the things that that that we want to I love
to continue. I saw I had to be here, and
it's such a fund of an episode got the there's
all the different layer said okay for the siren, and

(01:03:37):
I'm pretty sure I heard somebody I don't remember who
said it, but somebody said that there was a.

Speaker 17 (01:03:41):
Glitch in the matrix.

Speaker 16 (01:03:44):
Didn't write that the only goes through that line with
a black cat walking down the highway. I go, I
mean English accent for days. I enjoyed and all of that.

Speaker 17 (01:04:02):
Even though the mysteries kind of a headache, I still
throw a.

Speaker 16 (01:04:05):
Lot in the many movies and series that they've made
about him, they're all been fantastic. And Bennel Lwis actually
was in one episode of the series that had Lucy Liule.

Speaker 17 (01:04:17):
Playing playing Watson.

Speaker 16 (01:04:19):
He was in one episode of that TV TV show
It was felt elementary, Higher recommend it, and I just
I love that it's it's it's a nice writer writer
episode after the whole chain of command thing, and my
head Cannon says that they gave the Enterprise this nice,
relatively speaking, safe missions studying the star, which they'll continue

(01:04:43):
to do after Mariarty has.

Speaker 17 (01:04:45):
Gone on gone on his way.

Speaker 16 (01:04:47):
They backed up to their safe distance so they can
continue during that work of just giving everybody for a
break from the from the heavy for a while, and
it's true that we don't get the more than just
the hostage man for for Pulaski kind of wanted it
more more on Pulaski later saving that for the Lmerik.

Speaker 17 (01:05:10):
I think he'll get a kick out of it. Stephany Beacham.

Speaker 16 (01:05:15):
I watched Susan's a couple of times sets where she
was the doctor in season one of that show. But
Jonathan brandas fantastic sci fi time here. If you've never
seen it and you're looking for something new, go check
go check that out. As I was checking i m dB,

(01:05:37):
I found something very curious and I found it absolutely fascinating.
But gentlemen, at the in the Sherroff Holmes story at
the beginning of the of the of the episode, the
actor's name is Summit John Frankenstein, whose family was.

Speaker 17 (01:05:52):
Friends with Mary Shelley, and that's.

Speaker 16 (01:05:54):
Who she named the doctor and her Mary Shelley spanking
sign after is after this family.

Speaker 17 (01:06:00):
Wow, I absolutely fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
But he's got an extra He's got an extra.

Speaker 16 (01:06:07):
Yeah, and he's actually got a small room. In a
favorite movie on mine called The American President, he placed
the French president in in the in that in that movie.

Speaker 17 (01:06:19):
Another another trend flick, I watched, I watch and.

Speaker 16 (01:06:26):
Took a series of Barkley if if I could get it,
and I'm definitely head.

Speaker 17 (01:06:31):
Kenneth says that he took that little module.

Speaker 16 (01:06:34):
Said it on the shelf in his quarters, and he
made her to save it when he when everybody had to.

Speaker 17 (01:06:41):
Unpack their stuff after after the.

Speaker 16 (01:06:44):
After Generations, when they moved on to the Enterprise, and
and yeah, yeah, I just I love Berkeley and start
going back to back to Philanthrophy. I had first had
to improve her and and my roarmor from because of
course he's got four years worth of hanging out and

(01:07:05):
the holo. So maybe maybe he wrote poetry while he
was ready perfect been a lake and a layer for
all that time. The park said he'd had me, but
he'd lied. W's Philasky, that's trumpet said, I.

Speaker 17 (01:07:23):
Cover with trumpets. You don't have the Countess by my side.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Very nice, Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Carry just went you mentioned elementary. One of the main
writers on that show everybody knows is Robert Hewitt. There
all right, Jake's final take, any final thoughts on this episode?

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
Strock stroke it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Yeah, I have a couple of final thoughts. If if
Moriarty and Regina had a baby, it would be more China.
That was my first thing. Let's see number two.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
Every time I hear Heisenberg compensator, I think of Aaron Eisenberg.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
I can't not think.

Speaker 5 (01:08:10):
It's too close, sounds too close.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
I don't know how that ended up happening to be.

Speaker 5 (01:08:17):
Like that, but it's just like it feels like they're
saying they might as well say Aaron Heisenberg. When Stephanie
Beacham was telling that story about Africa, she mentioned that
she got to wear trousers the whole week, and I thought,
I thought, I liked that line.

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
I don't know why, but it was just it's just
just I like the line.

Speaker 5 (01:08:41):
And it made me laugh a little bit, you know,
because you know, relative to that time period, that's a
big deal, right for a young girl at that time.
So I just thought, oh, that's pretty cool that they
dropped that line in there. When they did the throwing
the whatever they threw out of the holidack and it disappeared,

(01:09:04):
that was a cool, little special effect that kind of
made me. I always wonder, like, you know, where the
threshold of existence is? In the Holidack, and they did
a nice little shot of that to show, you know,
past that point, things will not materialize and exist. I
notice also that they the passage of time was relevant,

(01:09:25):
was really relevant to the story. So it was because
Moriarty experienced the passage of time inside of the program
that made them feel like he was feeling that he
was being tortured or that there was some kind of
harm being.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
Done to him.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
So and also was a qualification for his being a
sentient individual, right, because as sentient life, we also visualized
the passage of time, and so I guess that in
itself is a parameter or a different definition for what
it means to exist, right to experience that. So I

(01:10:07):
thought that was a nice kind of philosophical argument being there.
Picard was tricked by Moriarty because he gave up his
voice command, and so he was outsmart in this episode.

(01:10:27):
Actually Data was out smarter too, because they neither one
of them picked up on it in real time. Right,
So congratulations to Moriarty. He did outsmart them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
And then the last thing, it was Vincent Ogle or
the Viscount.

Speaker 5 (01:10:48):
Oglethorpe, a man who could bewitch any woman who breathed.
I was like, that must be Riker. She must not
have met Riker yet, give her a chance. That's his
name in the program. He's like, no, my name's Vi
count Ogle. So so yeah, very good episode. I really

(01:11:10):
loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
I thought it was excellently written.

Speaker 5 (01:11:14):
And the performances were fantastic. Loved when Data did the
whole switching from Sherlock voice to Data's voice. You know,
it was just really fun to watch. Yeah, this is
one of my favorite episodes. And I think Moriarty is
a fantastic villain. I think that as an antagonist or villain,
I really like what he does because it's almost it's

(01:11:39):
less abrasive to me than how Q comes across when
he when it's a Q episode, it's it's less grandiose
and more of a real chess match to me, between
two between an intellectual people.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
So, you know, I really loved it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
I would give it a note, but you know, I
also want to say Alexander Singer, who directed it, you
know whatever, notes he was giving fantastic job on his
part two because it blows and there was never really
a moment where you were sitting there waiting for more.
And it was gone, it constantly flowed. The action was good,

(01:12:19):
and they didn't have many sets, but it still felt full.
So uh yeah, I love this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Cool great stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
I just thought of something funny, but I'll save it
for things left unsaid because it might not actually be funny,
all right, highly likely that it won't be. Thank you
very much to Chris McGee, Chuck A, Carrie Schwent, Alison
leech Hide, Melissa Longo for myself, Sarrock Lofton, Melissa and
Aaron Heisenberg. Thank you all very much for hanging out

(01:12:51):
with us. We appreciate it and we will see you
next time. Until then, always remember the seventh rule.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
What

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Moriarty Returns! | With Daniel Davis | TNG 6.12, "Ship In A Bottle," | T7R #368

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Moriarty Returns! | With Daniel Davis | TNG 6.12, "Ship In A Bottle," | T7R #368