The Newcomers | With Walter Koenig | TOS 2.16, "The Gamesters Of Triskellion" | T7R #369 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The newcomers have been purchased by the providers for two
thousand quat lose. Spock leads the Enterprise on a hunch,
and Captain Kirk says, you can call kissing someone helping them.
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Seventh Rule with Sarrock
Lofton and Walter Kanig.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Hello, My name is Ryan T. Huskin.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Today we're doing a review of Star Trek the original series,
season two, episode sixteen, Gamesters of Triskellion, written by Margaret Arman,
directed by Gene Nelson. This was January fifth, nineteen sixty eight.
Where were you and how are you guys doing today?

(00:45):
All right, okay, Walter, this was a fun one because
you were you got to be part of the away mission.
A lot of times you get stuck on the ship
while Kirk goes and saves the day with Spock and
Bones or something like that. But I was happy to
see that you and Uhura were in this away mission.

(01:07):
That was a very different kind of blend. You know,
it's usually Kirk and Spock and Bones or some kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Thing like that. But I was like, whoa, this is great.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
We got some Chekhov and Uhura as part of the
A story. Can you tell us one of the many
things you remember about this episode, like when you read
the script or when you first showed up, did you
feel like, all right, that's gonna be a fun one
if you can remember almost sixty years back. No, I'm

(01:43):
asking you, what can you remember.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Me? I don't remember anything. I wasn't there.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
I can swear I wasn't there. But I did love
this episode though, you know, I thought I had some
really good stuff in it. Actually I had the pleasure
of watching it twice. But yeah, I kind of agree
with Ryan and his opening question, which is, you know,

(02:10):
it seems like you got to be let in on
the action when when you got put on the away
team in this episode, and you know, when you get
a script and you have more to do in it
and you're basically heavily featured, you know, does that you
know what kind of preparation goes into it for you?

Speaker 5 (02:32):
Well, you know, I was pretty new to the show
still at that point, and I was I generally viewed
every episode in pretty much the same way at that time.
And that's boy. I get to work this week and
I actually have a scene or two where I can

(02:56):
emote a little, so I was I was please, I
was pleased to be involved. This is all and this

(03:17):
is I'm really having in trouble with one word. I
can't think of the bloody word earlier. What I what
I want to say is watching it again, I had
a somewhat different attitude about it. It was kind of
a cynical attitude. I'm looking at them saying this very

(03:43):
attractive lady in this very skimpy silver outfit, our captain
with his shirt off half the time. What was the
purpose of this episode? Was it to deliver a message
about the world, about the universe, about how we interact

(04:05):
with each other, or really was it about selling Star
Trek and what makes it appealing? And I think this
was an episode that really was designed to appeal to
people under thirty, people who who appreciated this is beautiful,

(04:32):
the young ladies attractive body, and our beautiful mister Captain
Kirk's attractive body. That's what it felt like to me
as I watched it a second time. It was really
really designed to draw the audience. Primarily the message it

(04:56):
was evoking was secondary to the point that perhaps star
treggling the word had gotten out that we were in
trouble that we needed a bigger audience, and this was
designed to do that. That's my cynical expression of how

(05:17):
I felt about this.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know, that's really interesting that you say that, mister
Walter Cannig, because our good pal Jason m Oakin, who
may not make it to the Free for All, he
actually messaged a similar thing where he said, uh, I
think Gamesters is the episode during which there was word
on the set that Star Trek was being canceled. The

(05:39):
mood was somber for a few days until the show
was picked up for additional episodes that season. So maybe
there's some kind of connection there. But do you remember
how you felt in those days, you know, fifty seven
years ago. Do you remember anything from being on set.
Do you remember if the mood was somber or if
it was fun or heading along with the cast?

Speaker 5 (06:03):
No, I you know, I was the young I was
a new guy in the show, and I was I
did not, as I have said before, I did not
have a contract, so I could be working in the
following week or I could not be. So when they
when they said you're working next week, oh that's great,
and you've got a scene that's kind of cute with

(06:27):
with your drill for all. Yeah, and Angelique Patty John
is very attractive and I am. I am definitely heterosexual,

(06:47):
so I could appreciate that you noticed. I was not
critical about the story. I was just pleased. I was
just pleased to be working on another episode. Yeah, I didn't.
I that was my that was my main focus was

(07:12):
I'm working the calling me back. There were a couple
of moments that I looked at myself on the screen
and said, what am I thinking. It doesn't look like
I'm thinking anything. I'm just sitting there and it was
like they caught me off guard or something. I was.
I was disappointed in the fact that I was. I

(07:34):
did not feel and when I was watching that, I
did not feel involved. I was in my cage and
my jail and I was just kind of staring out.
So I have I take exception at my own performance
regarding that.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I do that all the time. Walter, I know exactly
what you feel, but.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Oh, yeah, take exception at his performance.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
No, not.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Yeah, I mean you're always critical of things and you're
saying we could have done that better, or you know,
I don't like that facial expression it doesn't mention the
tone of the scene.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
There's moments when.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
I will do that about my own performances, so I'm
super critical. That's actually why I like, I prefer not
to watch myself. But anyways, I want to ask you
about the choreography and this because this had a lot
of fight scenes, and I guess.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
Yeah, there was.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
There was a lot of that.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Was there a lot of time put into the choreography
for this episode for the fight scenes.

Speaker 5 (08:38):
Well, that's curious you mentioned that. I actually have a
note that I thought that coreyview was pretty good. Generally,
it's not you know, I've seen a lot of feature films,
particularly when the choreography is really slammed bam and when
they're fighting and you really can really feel that it's

(09:00):
going on. This was better than I've seen on Star
Trek in the past. Yeah, the fighting's seen more convincing.
So I was I took notice and I'm pleased about that.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, you actually got a piece of action. You got
to actually fight a little bit with that guy Cluge.
I was watching, I got all excited. I was like, WHOA,
Walter's actually getting to be part of the battle scene.
You know, everybody had like a fight partner, and you
you got the eight footer. I don't know why they
gave you the guy.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
I was like, Oh, I was thinking the same thing.
I was like, why is Walter taking on the biggest guy? Kirk,
come over here and take on the big guy.

Speaker 6 (09:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Shatner's like, I'll take I'll take on blonde Elvis over here.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
You take the eight foot sasquatch.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
M Yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
But I noticed that as well.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
But I thought the choreography, to your.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
Point, though, was also great. I thought it was better
than what we usually see. They had the parameters where
you couldn't step on the yellow or the blue, and
so there was footwork involved with that and to enhance it.
I thought the director, who in this case was Gene Nelson, who.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
He was, He was a dancer. Yeah, Geene Nelson, before
he became a director, was a stage dancer and had
important stage roles as a dancing.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Well that kind of makes sense because I thought the
choreography was also filmed well, it was. It was a
matter of the placement of the camera. It was it
was showing certain things like Kirk unloosening his uh, you know,
his ties behind his back, and certain close up shots
in those moments that that accentuated the fight. It made

(10:47):
it more believable. They cut to the right moments. The
editing was right on that it felt fluid. So I
did like the choreography of the fight scenes. But Walter,
when you were read when you were doing this episode,
what did you uh, you know, what what were you
thinking this episode was about? Because you mentioned in the

(11:08):
beginning this kind of didn't have that much direction, and
it felt like it was a little bit all over
the place, like, well, what's.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
The what is the story about? Uh? You know?

Speaker 4 (11:18):
For you, was it just I'm captive and I have
to deal with this woman that wants to compete with me.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know.

Speaker 5 (11:30):
You guys, you guys have got to forgive me. I
don't hear well. So a lot of the dialogue when
I was listening this time, I couldn't absorb it. I
couldn't know. But what was most prominent in me now
I'm reiterating, is the appeal. This episode was appeal to

(11:52):
a specific segment of our audience, young people who's hormones
were still active, young women. We mister Shatner's bear chess,
and all sorts of young men and perhaps older men

(12:13):
who found Angelique petties On to be an attractive woman
who was rather skimpily clad.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
She definitely was.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
And there are a lot of these memes, these graphics
that we were talking about before we hit record that
it shows Kirk looking at her and saying, suddenly, I'm
in the mood for baked potatoes.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
So that was because of her outfit.

Speaker 5 (12:40):
Yeah, I've been told and Angelique was a stripper. I
don't think that's true or not, but that's what I
was told.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Now, you said you knew and worked with who was it,
Joseph Ruskin.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
Before this, we did a play called The Deputy. Now,
the curious thing was there was all men, at least
seven of the eleven or twelve men in the play,
all that star Trek episodes.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
Wow, Yeah, Bill.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
Wintersoll and a whole slew of people. The only one
who didn't was Alan Napier, who played the butler on Batman.
He played Alfred Batman.

Speaker 6 (13:29):
Everybody and it.

Speaker 5 (13:30):
Was a play about It was a play about the
Pope Pious during the Second World War, how he sort
of ignored what was happening in Germany and with not
only the Jews but the gypsies, homosexuals. He sort of

(13:50):
just made believe it wasn't there. And the play was
about that. It was about about a priest who tries
to tries to get him involved, get the Pope and ball.
It was played by Robert Brown, who did a guest
starring role on Star Trek and he played the lead
in this play. As I say, there were several other actors,

(14:16):
but that all happened later. So it was interesting and
it was very successful. We we went, uh we we
we went beyond our run. We ran several weeks beyond
our run and had a very very enthusiastic crowd at

(14:38):
the time.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Wow, how do you can you tell us about Joe Ruskin?
What he was like as a person.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
Well, one thing, Joe ruskins first wife was married to
my agent before I was married to Joe, I think,
or maybe it was the other way around. He was
a little bit on the elitist side, a little bit distant.
That's okay, you know, not everybody has to be a

(15:11):
hell fellow. Well met. He was a good actor. He
was serious actor, considerable amount of work back in the
sixties and perhaps the seventies, I'm not sure. So Yeah,
and it was a curious role he played. Again, It's

(15:35):
one that in retrospect I questioned it was a little
bit on the comic book side. It seemed to me,
you know, with the with the with the blue lights
in the eyes and all of that kind of evil
incarniate as it was written and performed.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Really, he didn't come off very evil to me.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
He came off just very matter of fact, you know,
like this is how it works, this is what I
do here.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
The rules.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Nothing like.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
He didn't seem like he had these negative motivations or
sinister thoughts or feelings. He just seemed uncaring and unmoved,
if you know, indifferent is the way I kind of
read it.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
That's interesting. And how long have you been in therapy?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Like fifteen minutes? I feel like, no, but did you Yeah,
he didn't come off like I mean, maybe I read
it wrong.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
Was it written that way? In the script?

Speaker 5 (16:44):
I found them that way? But then I found the personality,
you know, a bit distinct, So perhaps it influenced my
interpretation of his performance.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
I think there's elements of of both in his character.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
I mean, he was.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
Robotic in some ways, but what he was asking people
to do was, you know, heartless and so he didn't
have any empathy. I wanted to talk about Michelle Nichols.
I thought she looked super beautiful in this episode, as
she always does, but particularly so. There was a moment
in the beginning though that it bothered me. Who's a

(17:29):
nitpick of mine? And I actually I watched it twice.
It bothered me both times.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
And that is when they when when you.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
Guys first get disappeared from the you know, enterprise, and
you landed right there in the center of this planet.
Everybody is lying down on the floor. You you, you,
you wake up, you know, lying on the floor.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
And.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
Shadner gets up, You get up, and Hurrah, still laying there,
and I've just felt like somebody should go help her.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Up, check on her. I would just help her up.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
At least just I felt like the gentleman thing to
do is if I see some woman lying on the floor,
I'm going to ask her to, you know, reach my
hand out and help her up.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
That's just a minute, I got somebody at the door.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
I'll mean, yeah, yeah, so yeah, that bothered me a
little bit. I don't know if you saw that, Ryan, but.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
I'm watching it.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
I'm thinking, how come nobody's helping a horror get up.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, especially because look, it's somebody on your team.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
It's part of your crew.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
You look, person one gets up, Person two gets up. Hey,
we should check on person three. Make sure everything's cool there.
See if they need help.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Check on them.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Maybe they're you know, injured, maybe they're knocked out, maybe
they're possessed by something. But yeah, that was a little peculiar.
I did like that everybody got a part, though, Like
obviously Kirk's part was much bigger at the.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Time, like he was He's the main character.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah, I think she may have, but you know, he
was clearly the main character, and he was the main
character on the away mission. But still, Uhura and Chekhov
got their own screen time. They each got their own
drill thrall, which Kirk probably took the wrong way too,
And so it was nice that they weren't just like

(19:37):
tied up in a corner while Kirk's doing all the
things that are going on. But it was actually like
all three of them had a character that was stuck
to them or assigned to them, Like Walter got the
Yellow Lady. I just kept calling her the Yellow Lady.
But then I found out later.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Her name was.

Speaker 6 (19:58):
Moon.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, uh, where is it?

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah to Moon, right, and the baked potato lady was Shawna.
And the super tall guy was Cluge.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
I didn't find out what.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
The there was one oh the the There was also
the guy called Blonde.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Elvis as you know that.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
I don't think I caught his name though, Blonde Elvis.
It might have been Lars. I'm looking at the IMDb
and I think it must have been Lars.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, and I think he had Lars, but yeah,
and Lars was walking around carrying, uh, a net, you know,
and I was thinking, who brings the net to a fight?

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Like old Roman style?

Speaker 4 (20:52):
Right, yeah, Like if I'm going to show up, there's
like a sword, there's a spear, there's an axe, and
You're like, no, let me.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Get that net. Yep, maybe even two.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Like that's I just it's just not going to be
the weapon of choice for me.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Swinging.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Now we're catching chicken or something. I don't know the
game fish the net will work.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
But you know, at the same time, he also needed
so much dental work that.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I was.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Good old Kluge.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Hey, uh, Walter, here was something that I noticed one
of your lines when you were upset about something. I
believe Kirk said something and then you were also upset.
You said Cossacks. Do you remember that line, Yeah, Cossacks.

(21:56):
It was something that was going on when they were
going to like sacrifice a guy. And then Kirk says
like damn it or darn it, and you say Cossacks
like out of anger. Yeah, okay, Well, I'll have to
look it up. But I think Cossacks is a group
of people back in the day in old Russian history.

(22:18):
Maybe they were enemies or maybe you know so, But
I but you were exclaiming it as a sort of
insult or derogatorily, So let me check it out.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
But I think that's what I remember it being.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
It says Cossacks were historical semi nomadic warrior communities of
primarily Slavic and multi ethnic origins blah blah blah blah.
So there must have been like, yeah, it must have
been some kind of rivalry with you know, say, Northern
Russians and the Cossacks, because I think they kind of
split off into two and ended up in like.

Speaker 5 (22:58):
Part of the the aggressiveness of the Russians against the Jews,
the Cossacks were on horseback and they went after the Jews.
That was at least that's that, That is the derogatory
meaning that I know.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Mm hmm, yeah, that makes sense a lot of a
lot of old like for example, what's the word I'm
looking for, Not barbarian, but there's another word like that
where really, you know, throughout history all it means is
these other guys, but they use it as it kind

(23:41):
of developed into an insult, whether it be in old
Roman days or something like that. Somebody in the live
chat helped me out.

Speaker 4 (23:47):
There's an almost spell that Cossacks.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Is it with A or.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
CEO S S A c K.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
S Yeah, the capitals, Yeah, with the Baltic Sea. So
I have I have an anecdote, very brief, but that's
what I'm here for brief. I got to be very
quite friendly with Angelique, and I mean.

Speaker 7 (24:23):
Quote quite friendly friendly and we and they plans to
have lunch together at the cafeteria and she said, you know,
knock on my door.

Speaker 5 (24:38):
So I did. And she was wearing a sheet and
that was all she was wearing was a sheet she
held up and shook me up. It just totally shook
me up. I was trembling.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Who was this the girl from from this episode.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Sit Down Make Potato Girl?

Speaker 5 (25:05):
Yes, wow, I never saw anything other than the sheet,
but I had I had a trouble with walking carmones
were raging. It was just raging.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
He was Angelique Petty John and she played Shana right.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, and that was.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
The only Star Trek episode she did. I thought she
did just fine for somebody with a green wig on.
It cannot be easy to wear a big green wig
and saran wrap or aluminum.

Speaker 6 (25:37):
Foil all over you.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Like.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
I was actually really impressed because that's not comfortable.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
That's not easy.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
You constantly have to be careful what's going on and
what you're doing and all that. So I was actually
really impressed by her. It seems like she was at
least at the very least friendly, right, Yeah, she.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Was fair with me. Yeah. And you know the relationship,
the character relationships she had with Captain Kirk, I thought
was convincing. I bought it. Yeah, it's an interesting choice.
I don't know how they found her, because, as I said,
I had heard that she did she was a stripper,

(26:18):
That's what I heard.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Yeah, I thought she did a fantastic job in this
episode because I also did believe her relationship with Kirk.
I also believed that she was able to portray the
fact that she didn't know anything about human or earth.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Cultures or love.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
And I thought she was convincing h portraying that she
was not aware of these kinds of things, and so
I bought.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
That, except you know, it's interesting. I actually wrote a
note when she says what is beautiful? She knows all
these other words, how come she doesn't know what beautiful is?
You know, I didn't quite get bat.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Well, because they don't teach them that they're basically slaves
and they're just fighters and they don't know what stars
are or beauty or probably books or YouTube.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Yeah, I mean yeah. I just thought she did a
good job because usually you don't have the combination of
good looks and acting the abilities. It's no rare combination
to have the two, and I thought she had a
decent enough acting ability to really.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Pull this episode off.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
She had a cry scene at the end where she's,
you know, looking up at the stars and says I'll
always miss you Kirk, or something to that effect. I
thought that was also a good pulso for her in
a nice emotional moment. You know, she's crying on que.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
So yeah, I thought it was pretty good. I enjoyed
her performance, actually more so than the other ones.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
I'll tell you what did bother me those And I'm
surprised they got away with this at that time, Walter,
because it.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
Just it hit an emotional button for me.

Speaker 4 (28:16):
And that is when the the thrill guy, Lars, the
blonde thrall guy went into.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Ahura's Yeah, what the heck?

Speaker 4 (28:27):
Yeah, when he went into Ahuras yeah, yeah, absolutely, and
they made this whole rape implication type thing happening, and
I was like, why how are they getting away with
this in nineteen sixty.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
You know what I mean? I couldn't even was it was.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
I felt emotionally attached to that moment where I felt
like she was being violated and you know, right here
in front of me, And I didn't like to see that.
Even though they cut away and they you know when
after the cut in the commercial break, we see that,
you know, she was able to fight the guy off
or whatnot.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
But yeah, I was forgiving us.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
I was like, I thought I was misreading this thing.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I was like, wait, wait, wait, what's going No, they
can't be saying that, Like, I honestly thought that I
was misreading what they were intending to show us. But no,
that's really what they were showing. I was really surprised
by that.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
We had no idea. I mean, the inference certainly is
that she's being assaulted. I mean that was absolutely And
and the fact that they cut away and they were
showing a non active view of the of the jail
and nobody is in and then she you know, you

(29:49):
gotta feel that she's being attacked, and then there's no explanation.
She and the guy who walks out and and she uh,
and she's all fully closed. The other thing that bothered me,
and this is really tiny, this is really insignificant, but
it bothered me. So I'm going to say it. Near

(30:12):
the end, we were all going to fight, are captors,
each of us is going to fight. It was preposterous
that I was going to fight that little lady. But okay,
but that they had to find a black guy for
Michelle to fight. I mean, he was going to fight Michelle,

(30:35):
and I just didn't understand why they needed to do that.
I mean, I'm not putting I mean they were matching
her up and I don't. I don't. I didn't understand
in terms of the story, in terms of the times,
didn't have to be a black guy because she's black,

(30:56):
you know. And then of course Kirk takes this place
and and fights the guy himself. But I guess it
was it was I guess it was a sign of
the times. We were very, very sensitive to how people
were portrayed, and particularly minority of people, and I felt

(31:21):
compelled to have her fight somebody who was also a
minority person. I just didn't. I didn't feel it was necessary.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, I agree with you on that too.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
That that was like, I was like, why is this
being inserted here?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (31:38):
And there's several things I had issues with that. Well,
let me command one thing. I commend Ahora or Michelle
Nichols for refusing to fight that guy. Right, So, she
was making a stance. In that stance of not fighting him,
seemed like she was almost addressing the racial component of

(31:59):
this is another black.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Guy, Well what I you know, fight this guy.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
I felt like her resistance to that moment also included
the racial tone of why are you trying to pit
me up against this black man? So I commended her
for refusing to do that. But in alignment with what
you're saying, Walter, what was bothersome to me was it
wasn't necessary for him to be a black man having

(32:24):
him in custody in that kind of way, and which
would have eventually led to the whipping scene that we
ended up seeing Kirk under go when he was being.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Whipped by that by that guy.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
That implies that they were going to reserve that whipping
scene whipping for him, and Kirk stepped in for that,
and so to me, that was like an even more
layered offensive thing, like, now it's going to be a
whipping of this black guy. Is that what you were
suggesting should have taken place had Kirk nuts intervened. So

(33:06):
that actually bothered me as well. So I just didn't
understand the necessity of that. And the last point I'll
make it on that particular moment, which I know is
small on screen but it does have meaning, is when
they freed the Thralls at the end of the episode,
they didn't return him that character back to say you

(33:29):
are you know, to basically allow him to be one
of the freed Thralls who's in captivity. So they didn't
even give him the luxury of having that moment where
he gets to accept his own freedom. I felt like
you brought him in out of nowhere. We don't see
the guy, he's not one of the caretakers, and then

(33:51):
you don't bring him back as part of the freed
group of people.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
So I thought that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, that's a good point. The other person that kind
of got brought in somewhat randomly towards the end was
when Kirk said, was when Kirk was going to fight
three people. And we've had this rotating group of people, right.
We had the four people, we had the tall guy,
we had the two ladies, we had blonde elvis, and

(34:20):
then when he came back, suddenly they had a dude,
you know, the tall guy. They had blonde elvis, and
rather than having one of the ladies, they introduced a
new character, the Andrian guy. Maybe it's an availability thing,
maybe the other guy wasn't available, but it certainly wasn't
one of the women. So this was a deliberate decision
to say, no, we can't have it go against two

(34:41):
guys and one of the women. It has to be
two guys. And then we'll just create some Andorian guys
that was just another interesting thing, which I don't know
if that's good or bad. I just know that that
was something that stood out to me of like, hey,
they just dropped some new guy out of nowhere.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, and I'm like, where are these new guys coming from?
Like where are they?

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Are they on the other side of the planet, Like
where are the other thralls?

Speaker 1 (35:06):
They probably have a whole ton of them, but they
only had a budget for five I guess, well, let's
take a quick break. Things are going to get even spicier.
Everybody can't wait.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
We'll be right.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Back on the Seventh Rule. Well, hi, everybody, welcome back
to the Seventh Rule with Sarrok Lofton and Walter Kanig Yellow.
So far, I'm like zero for nine on jokes with Walter.
Everything I say, he just stares at me, like was
that even a joke?

Speaker 3 (35:32):
But here are the there.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
There are the trivioids of the episode. Lieutenant Uhura experiences
the craziest landing patch he's ever seen, and sint Haines
finds an ionization trail. Spock is not chasing some wild
aquatic foul thralls call food nourishment because that's what it is.
Kirks thinks Shauna is a very beautiful woman. Klug and

(35:59):
Kirk get a resting interval of fifteen trisects. The newcomers
have been purchased four two thousand quat lose. Captain Kirk
says you can call kissing someone helping them, and Spock
leads the enterprise.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
On a hunch.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
You know, there's a lot of weird stuff going on
with Kirk and that poor lady. Like he's like kind
of trying to help her in a way, and then
he like starts making out with it.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
I'm like, this guy's kind of taking advantage of the situation.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
This poor lady is a slave. She's ignorant of what's
going on in the universe around her. She knows only
like four things. It's like training, fighting, eating, and sleeping.
And here he is like, oh, let's, you know, smooch
it up, and yeah, this is kind of me helping you.
And then he's saving her, and the whole thing just
kind of felt a little bit like, we get it.

(36:50):
Kirk is the alpha male. Kirk's the guy that gets
the ladies.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
We get it.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
You know, it felt a little Now again, I'm speaking
out of turn because I wasn't alive in the sixties,
so know if that was just kind of how everything was.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
But watching it through.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
The lens of twenty twenty five, it felt a little
a little much. It felt a little heavy handed. But
the lady played it off well, she just played it
innocently and ignorantly and just open minded and just saying, well,
tell me more.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
But it just seemed a.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Little There are a lot of lines that made me
roll my eyes with that guy.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
But interestingly enough, this episode is written by Margaret Harmon
Harmon and a very good point, you know. So she
has her own lens that she's going to put on it,
you know, as a woman's screenwriter at the time.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
So it's a very good point.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Yeah, you know, I imagine some of it is from
her eyes, you know as well.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
I mean a lot of it.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
So obviously, you know, Shatter's going to put his own
performative spin on things. But she wrote the script so
she she.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Wanted the damsel in distress episode.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
She wanted the you know, the chart Prince Charming coming
to save save her type of episode. This wasn't really
written from a male Chauvin's point of view, per se,
So I felt, really it felt like it did because
of the outfits and some of the.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, but that's still an excellent point you make. Yeah,
that's true that if she felt it was reasonable, then
maybe you know, I'm just it's just suffering from you know,
looking at it through the lens of sixty years later,
you know, right.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
But I want to kind of go back to what
Walter was saying about what was this episode about?

Speaker 2 (38:44):
What?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
What did you take away from this episode? Is like,
what is this about? You mentioned the the ratings and
and you know, I'm just the the gratuitous sexual aspect
of it. But do you think that's all the story was, Walter?
Do you think there was something like there was actually
a message to walk away with.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
I'm really I'm really sorry you asked me, because, as
I said before, I do have a problem understanding dialogue
hearing it, and I missed a great deal of the
dialogue when it was about something other than get me

(39:27):
out of here, you know, So I have to leave
it up to you guys to explain what the story
was about.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Really well, I think it's a very good question that
Sarac poses, because, to be perfectly frank Walter, I heard
all the dialogue and I'm not sure so kind of
in the same boat as you are. So I defer
to you, Sarat, what what was the message other than

(39:57):
slavery is bad?

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I mean, what beca is.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
It felt like we're putting these Federation people on this
planet and we're kind of just you know, lecturing where
we're the good guys. You guys are dumb and you
do bad things, and we're going to show you the
error of your ways, and we're going to enlighten you
and save the day, and you're going to be like, Wow,
they were amazing, was the But that's every episode. So

(40:23):
what was what was the deeper message?

Speaker 4 (40:29):
Yeah, and that's where I struggle as well, because I
feel like this this episode was trying to say something,
but it failed to me at saying whatever it was
trying to say. One aspect of the of Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Is technology and the science aspect.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
They completely removed science from us by magically making them
disappear like a genie wished it into existence. No scientifical
reason behind it. There wasn't any science. It's just they
got you guys, got wished away off of the you know,
transporter pad into some other dementia, world planet whatever, no

(41:12):
science based behind that, so okay.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Then you go into the motives.

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Of the people that that whimsically whisked you away.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
And you think, okay, they're claiming to.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Be in higher intelligence. They've evolved past the point of
needing a body so that they're only a brain essentially,
which is I don't see how you could evolve that
point where you don't need limbs to feed.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yourself and you know, become an autonomous thing.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
But okay, obviously they were taking people against their will, slavery, captivity,
and that that dynamic of a storyline, but I didn't
see that being enough to carry this episode. What really
kind of puzzled me was the gambling aspect of it.

(42:03):
The whole betting on this, I bet on that, you know,
it felt like how all the gambling sites are now
where they're like how many yards will such and such
rush for? And how many touchdowns will we throw in?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
How many interceptions? And you know, the gambling websites.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
Right there, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
That was my qualm with it was with only three guys,
wouldn't gambling get boring if there's only three people?

Speaker 3 (42:30):
You need more.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
People otherwise how you keep gambling with the same two
other people. That that's kind of But then the other
thing was that it was a very similar theme. Not
you know, I'm again I'm missing the depth. I missed it,
and people in the live chatter and the comments or

(42:52):
in the free f all can explain what we missed.
But the point was again like all the other episodes,
but also the theme of how they escape. How many
times have we seen a super being or an omniscient
being or a magical robot and kirk outsmarts them basically,

(43:14):
and that's how.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
They escape.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
It's by kirk Out maneuvering mentally the mental giants or
something like that. So anyway, it was similar, not it's
not a bad thing, but it's certainly one we've seen before.
But Walter, you look like you were going to jump
in on the answer the phone.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Yeah, there's the door wait listening, listening.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
Yeah, I'm in the middle of a zoom call.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
So I couldn't figure it out either.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Thank you for letting me.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
But you know, look, I think that this was a
bunch of things that they together.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Nothing was solid.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
And what's interesting to me is that, you know, when you.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Talk about.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Just basically bringing on a hot actress to boost ratings.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
We've heard that. I've heard that.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Before in Star Trek, and I've heard people credit, for example,
seven of nine's character.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
It's not just the original series, right.

Speaker 4 (44:27):
Right, People have said that about seven of nine, who
was also dressed in all silver. So I think they
have a thing where they're like, hey, if we want
the ratings to go up, let's bring in the resist
to be gorgeous person and you know, put them in
a scantily clad outfit and the ratings will go up.

(44:52):
It's not it's not rocket science and that that aspect
of it. But I just felt like it was It
felt like a little Count Dracula ish with the way
Joe Ruskin was, Yeah, yeah, did you.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Not feel a little Count Dracula?

Speaker 5 (45:12):
Yeah, Well he Count Dracta wasn't a nice guy. No,
It gives it gives us some support to my idea
that he's a bad guy.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
What Count Tracula was a lover?

Speaker 5 (45:26):
The other thing is, and I've been interrupted here by
a couple of phone calls the brains. Isn't that a
futuristic concept of how we continue to evolve until we
don't even have human form, and if there are humans

(45:48):
or there are people who look like they are under
the direction of these entities that are simply brains, that
it's all there are. So making a comment, a science
fiction comment about where the development of human life will go?

(46:09):
Isn't that part of what they're doing there?

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Evolution?

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Yeah, where will And that would have probably been a
better idea, to be honest with you, alter what you
just said reminds me of an avatar in a video
game of some sort. Right, if the brains we're using
these avatar bodies of the Thralls and the Thralls weren't
actually captured people, but they were a projection of the brains,

(46:41):
basically brain power in a vessel, then that would have
kind of hinted at a dystopian future where it seems
like we are actually trying to go into where we
are uploaded into.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
A computer system.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
And we live in a virtual reality as opposed to
an actual one. So I can see that being something
that could be extracted from this episode as a possible,
uh narrative, But they didn't really make it like that.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
I've got to run again. I'll be right back. My
garage door has a mind of its own. I think
it's from that. I'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
I think uh Walter was really just looking for an
excuse to not answer that question because that was pretty complicated.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Man.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I was like, man, I could barely keep up with
that one, Like you're going full like transhumanism on it.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
It could have been it could have been.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Yeah, I mean, you know there's a little bit of that,
right because you have these brains totally you know this
and this world that they constructed, you know, so I
can see that.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
But they didn't make it that.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
They the gambling aspect of it made it even. It
actually cheapened, cheapened it for me, you know, I didn't
need them to be betting some some like what is
that money for in this exactly?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
And if there's only three of them?

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Yeah, and what are what are the real money?

Speaker 3 (48:17):
What are the real stakes? If they have no need.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
For money, there's literally only three of them, they can
do whatever they want. What do they need money for?
It's for the competition of it, okay, but again it's
just three of them, Like you're going to keep competing
with the same two other people over and over again,
Like I mean, I want to use human nature to this,
but obviously it's not human nature, so I can't really

(48:42):
apply it. But yeah, I just kind of found that
to be like, I can't imagine that really happening, making
the same bets and wagers and competitions with the same
three entities over and over and over again, because you
won't care. You'll be like I don't I don't care.
We've been doing this for a million years.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Is anyway?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
I want to talk about a couple of things before
we go that made me laugh, like when Spock said
when Scotty said they vanished in the transport, and Spock says,
I assume in a different way than normal, because of
course that's funny because they're supposed to vanish.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
So that was.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Actually really good. Oh yeah, that was really gross.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, when Lars said I've been selected for you, I
put my notes. I it was just that whole thing
was just a mess. So Kirk says pretty pretty country
to the lady when they're walking around pretty country, very
much like my home planet Earth, and I just felt
like the way he was delivering it was like you

(49:48):
might as well just be in a singles bar with
this guy, like.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Every everything, if he's fighting for life, and death.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
They're running and everything's like, hey, you should see my planet.
He said, if I could take it there if you want, Like,
doesn't matter what the situation is. It seems like he's
always trying to like hook it up.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
He's scoring, he's going to score.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
And of course when she said when he kisses her
and she says and this is also helping, he goes,
well you could call it that. I was like, all right,
get a hold of yourself, bro, But it did make
me laugh. And the other one that made me laugh
was when they're escaping and we see the checkof had
his yellow lady tied up and he says, I guess

(50:34):
the romance is over or this kills the romance or
something like that.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
That was pretty funny.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
That was you, Walter Now, Actually Walter's. My favorite two
lines he had was when he says one he says,
you have been selected for me, and then the follow
up to that was please to know you. Those are

(51:04):
the best lines I thought.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
He was. As you can see, he's like, why do
I get stuck? Why can't they have three hot jakes
over here?

Speaker 4 (51:14):
I get stuck with this girl and she's on me
and I'm not Jundice.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Hey, but it is time for the home run of
today's episode. Everybody the seventh year old home run of
the episode. Strok who gets the home run of today's episode?

Speaker 4 (51:32):
I'm giving the home run to Angelique? Is that the
actress's baked potato?

Speaker 6 (51:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (51:38):
I thought Angelique was the star of this show. She
was the thing that you you know.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
She was the star of this episode.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
So I thought her performance was not fantastic, but it
was decent enough and believable. And you know, I've seen
very bad actresses that come in playing the beautiful damsel
in distress, and I thought she actually delivered that with
an actual performance and it wasn't just I'm pretty look

(52:11):
at me. So I am glad to say that I
think she got the whole run.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
What about you, Walter, who got the home run of
today's episode?

Speaker 5 (52:21):
Well, I'm sort of fear o the way sarracktas, I
would give it to Angelique by the fault. So that's
not the it's not an all embracing come you know,
come in, But it's the best I can do.

Speaker 8 (52:40):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
We are going to make it a triumvirent, a triad,
a triskelion.

Speaker 9 (52:46):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yeah, and I will make it a threesome. I agree.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
It's Angelique because, like I mentioned before, first of all,
her performance was good. It worked, it was fine, and
it wasn't under the best of circumstances. She got to
play the damsel in distress every single time Kirk does
a pickup line with her, or when he can finally
save her and she's like, can I.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Come with you?

Speaker 1 (53:10):
And he's like, probably, you should probably stay here, that
would be fine. But she did it all with a
big green wig on. She did it all in aluminum foil.
Couldn't have been comfortable, couldn't have been great, and she
still did it and she did great.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
She did fine.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
So she gets the home run of the episode for
me as well.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Back to back to back home runs for her. All right,
everybody stick around, We've got the Free for All up next, or,
as Walter calls it his favorite part, We'll be right
back on the Seventh Rule.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
I finally got him to laugh. It only took fifty minutes.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Hello, everybody, Welcome back to the Seventh Rule with sarrok
Lofton and Walter kaneg This is the Free for.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
All with Malise Longo.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Hi and Alison Leech Hide wearing her Shakr Salot's shirt.
Faith Howl is the dark Lady. This is gonna be
fun cool background.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
T J.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Jackson Bay has four baked potatoes behind him. No idea
why Chuck A has five captains on his shirt. Carrie
Schwent aka Crafty Bear and Chris Garris are out in
the woods somewhere, all right. Jake Cisco guesses the IMDb score.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I'm gonna say, like a seven.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Two, going to kembe. Does anybody else have any guesses
as to what it is on IMDb as the overall
average score that doesn't already know.

Speaker 10 (55:03):
I'm not going to give it like a seven point
nine six.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Point nine.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
O one wow, close, three of you are very close.
It's a seven point zero seven point oh? Everybody seven
point oh? Do we get any non appearance mentions? I
didn't hear a Sulu or anything.

Speaker 5 (55:30):
Why did that number?

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (55:35):
That's on that's on IMDb.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
It's the International Movie Database, So anybody can rate a score.
They can give it a score from one to ten,
and then they get the aggregate averaged out and they
do like a weighted means, so it's not even exactly
a perfect average, and then that's what they do. It's
an average of all of the scores of all of
the viewers.

Speaker 6 (55:57):
Hmm, gold be so many?

Speaker 3 (56:00):
I know, Oh, thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Uh well, I'll tell you what the actual average is.
Hang on a second, because I like to check that sometimes,
because they call it an a weighted mean, and the
unweighted mean is actually a seven point one, so the
average is actually slightly higher. Well done, well done, I

(56:23):
know it.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Dark lady. Do we have any some kinds of or
some sorts of?

Speaker 4 (56:31):
No, we did not.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Where's your chocolate wine?

Speaker 1 (56:34):
All right, here we go, nice Melissa Longo, Will you
please get a start off on the right track by
telling us what you thought of this particular episode.

Speaker 9 (56:47):
I thought of big potatoes.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
I told you, Walter, that's what I.

Speaker 9 (57:00):
Thought this episode. That's the first thing that popped into
my head was either baked potatoes or Jiffy Pops pop poppers. Yeah,
that's quite an outfit. It's a it's it's a memorable
episode for for several reasons. I will tell you some

(57:25):
of the things that I liked about it. I liked
that most of the crew had something to do. I
did miss Sulu but I was glad to see that
most of the crew was involved in telling the story
and that they all had something to do that was wonderful.
I like that Ouhura wasn't afraid to stand up for

(57:50):
herself even when faced with these these memis. And then
I liked I really liked that they put a woman
at the helm. When Kirk took Chekhov with him down
onto the planet, I was like, oh my gosh, this show. Ah,

(58:14):
it's so ahead of its time in a lot of ways,
but then in a lot of ways, it's very much
a product of its time. So at the same time,
both things are very true, and there are some really
funny parts. And I really enjoyed the interactions between Chekhov

(58:35):
and his drill for all, it was hilarious. And then
one of there's a line, well, when Chekhov calls her miss,
He's like, okay, miss. That was really great. But another
favorite line was from Spock when he was talking about

(58:59):
not going on going after some wild aquatic foul. That
was pretty funny. And there was something that bothered me though,
and that was all of the rapeie stuff, and that's
the yeah, yeah, I don't like that stuff.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
It's just.

Speaker 9 (59:29):
So very much ahead of its time, very much a
product of its time. And the rest I'll save for
things left unsaid.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Couldn't agree more perfect ents in Haynes is the lady
that found the Ionization trail and took the helm.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Also, I always thought that Thrall.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Just was kind of like they just took the derivative
of enthrallments like somebody that's kind of spellbound or entranced
or something like that. But Alison Leech hide be the
voice of reason. What do you think of this one?

Speaker 11 (59:58):
I like this episode a lot. I love that we
have all of our crew who are in the episode
completely engage doing stuff. Her a kicks ass, which is great.
You know, she took on two check off her only
had one each. She took on two, so go O'Hara.

(01:00:20):
Love that she definitely told Lars what's what and to
leave her alone and that was great and multiple times.

Speaker 5 (01:00:29):
So love that.

Speaker 11 (01:00:32):
I love the costumes in this episode. They feel very
bonkers for gladiators and also not bonkers for gladiators. I
thought it all went really well that way. And I
love Galt's sparkly collar. I think it's hysterical makes him
feel like Dracula and how he liked Floatwalks.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
So I do.

Speaker 11 (01:00:55):
I really love this, especially all the snarkiness between Bones
and Spock and Scottie, you know, they're all like it,
just all the little snippy things and you know, contamination
for Hope.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
I'm like, that's great.

Speaker 11 (01:01:10):
But I also thought this episode had a wonderful message
about how slavery sucks and you shouldn't do it, so
that was super cool. I love having a message in
an episode. And I thought Kirk was awesome in this
episode the whole time, especially when he got to you know,
out talk three Brains and it was a really I

(01:01:37):
never skipped this one.

Speaker 12 (01:01:38):
Love this one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Wow, this is great stuff. Thank you very much, Allison
Leech Hide the Heart of New Mexico. All right, Faith
Howell aka everybody Knows the Dark Lady? What do you
think of this one?

Speaker 12 (01:01:52):
I'm gonna let the dark Lord lead here. Chris macgee
passed along his notes and he says it's pretty good.
Not particularly groundbreaking or thought provoking, but it may have
inspired modern takes like Squid Game. Interesting take there. Standout
aspect of this episode for him was Angelique Petty John

(01:02:13):
playing Shauna he says, I think she was my first
star trek crush, not just because she's beautiful, but also
because of her big green wig. I hit puberty around
the height of the punk rock a big hair in
the eighties, so what do you expect? And his memorable
quote was quat lose, I have to concur wholeheartedly. I

(01:02:38):
you know, of course, for probably first saw this episode
sitting on my daddy's knee on Saturday morning, maybe Saturday afternoon,
after our garfield turned off, and I definitely was drawn
to Shauna as well. She definitely still gives me, you know,
barbie vibes. She looked like all my dollies, and definitely

(01:03:01):
my dollies had little outfits just like hers. So, you know,
the eighties were a wild time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
So great stuff. I thought you're gonna say, all your
dolls you painted their hair green?

Speaker 12 (01:03:15):
No, that was my sister, got.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
It, thanks very much, Faith. How the Dark Lady and
the Dark Lord in absentia?

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
T J.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Jackson Bay is out in Missouri. He's got big potatoes
behind him. What do you think of this one?

Speaker 6 (01:03:30):
Oh? Sorry, I got distracted on the potatoes. No, I
really enjoyed this episode. That you know, it's one that
I've seen for many years. You know, obviously since it's
an original series episode, and you know, there are several dynamics.

(01:03:50):
Excuse me, I play one on the planet that all
always have appreciated Shawna's curiosity. In her exploring that curiosity,
you know, Kirk kind of gets what he needs to
do what he does to understand, you know, what's going on.
You know, that's how we go on the journey as
well as the audience. But you know, the kind of

(01:04:15):
looking up at the sky and question I can live
on a spec of light? You know, you know, kind
of questions like that are I think worth pondering. You know,
when I look into the night sky and see, you know,
all the vastness of what's out there, and to have
that kind of wonder like what really is out there?

(01:04:35):
You know, is there someone living there? Is there like
a ship passing by before my eyes that I can't see,
or you know, what's it really like to walk on
the moon or see the rings of Saturn? That just
kind of child like wonder. I'm drawn to that, and
it's a quality that I want to hold within myself

(01:04:57):
and not lose. It's easy to lose that because there's
so much going on in the world around us, don't
lose your wonder in the ship, there's also some interesting
things going on. And you know, one of the things
that I that I noticed is so Spock is in charge,
and you know, the two senior most officers that are

(01:05:20):
with him aren't really following along with his lead, constantly questioning,
you know, his commands until he pulls the kind of
reverse psychology on them and pulls him in the corners, like,
unless you guys want to meet me, you kind of
need to get with the program here because I'm trying
to do something. And you know, I thought, you know,

(01:05:42):
Spock took it well, but but I thought that was
kind of a more show for Scottie and Bones to
constantly question his orders on the bridge of the ship.
They could have been the ones to pull him to
the side and like, can you tell us what you're
up to? You we don't get it, we don't understand,
and we're kind of concerned, like just let us in

(01:06:03):
on what's going on. But instead they questioned him, you know,
on the bridge, and Scotty's even like, I'm not going
to tune the engines up until you tell me what's
going on. And uh, well it all worked out, and
you know, they got with the program and then they
sped the ship up and and and all of that stuff.
But I thought that was kind of a strange dynamic

(01:06:25):
for a starship command structure. But again it also, you know,
kind of let us in into the character of Spock
and and how he's thinking and how he's logically, you know,
reasoning this out. Okay, we looked all back there, and
there's nothing there. It's the only only thin straw that
we have to go on. And yes, Spock does go

(01:06:46):
on a hunch, he'll tell you he doesn't. It's completely
a hunch. So interesting episode. Uh you know, if there's
a line, there were a couple of lines that would
pick up one funny and one you know, serious and
worthy contemplation. The funny one is please help me once more.

(01:07:09):
And the content, the one to contemplate, is delivered by
Kirk and he says, a species that enslaves other beings
is hardly superior mentally or otherwise. I can't agree more
with that statement.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Great stuff, Thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (01:07:28):
TJ.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Jackson, Bay Out, Missouri looks like a sci fi sister's
shirt very nice. Yes, all right, Chuck A aka TNG
Fanatic is up next.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Chuck A. Is this your first time seeing this one?
What do you think?

Speaker 13 (01:07:42):
Oh, no, it's not the first time, probably in the
twenty twenty times over the years. It's been a few
years since I saw it. Yeah, I liked this episode.
I thought that Shatner and Walter and the hell did
wonderful jobs in the episode. That was really really good.

(01:08:05):
They seem to also want to put Shatner shirtless again,
That's happened quite a few times. The actor that played
Gold was Joseph Ruskin, and I remember that I had
seen him in Deep Space nine in at least one show.

(01:08:25):
I looked it up on on Wikipedia. I'm looking at
my phone now. Apparently he was in three episodes of
DS nine. He was in the Star Trek Insurrection. He
was in a Star Trek Voyager episode and a Star
Trek Enterprise episode.

Speaker 6 (01:08:42):
So I didn't know.

Speaker 13 (01:08:44):
I knew about the DS nine one, but I didn't
know about the other. So he was definitely a repeat,
repeat customer for Star Trek. I liked the scenes with
Angelique Petty, John shawna Uh with Shatner, that was really good.
And as was benched, Walter had that good scene in

(01:09:05):
the in his quarters with the two uh, not the
two the one UH drill throw. And then I also
was mentioned the show was fighting two at once, two
ladies at once in the UH at the fight scene
at the end, and I did like the uh the

(01:09:26):
scene with the three brains the three uh at the end,
and UH it was I would have bet all the
quat lows I had that UH that the show was
gonna come out good. I Kirka had to fight all
those characters at the same time, and it UH obviously

(01:09:47):
was gonna go good. And then I was always surprised
at the end when UH when Shanna says that the
Thralls surrender, because he said that he would only gain
the freedom of he killed all right, the Thralls, but
I remembered that, but I sort of, well, maybe that's

(01:10:10):
not what happened. But again, it's been a few years
since I saw it.

Speaker 6 (01:10:13):
But I really.

Speaker 13 (01:10:14):
Enjoyed this episode. You know, I saw it in the
first run when it aired, and then I also have
seen it in reruns many times. Really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Great stuff, Thanks very much, Chucky. I thought the same thing.
I was like, wait, he never said that was part
of the rules. I thought she was actually going to
kill herself. I thought that was going to be the
final death, which would have made it really powerful. And
Joe Ruskin using a lot of things. You have voyager,
insurrection er, enterprise. He's in a show called.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
That's My Bush.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I don't know what that is and score with an
exclamation point. Anyway, Wow, that's what it says. Carrie Schwent
aka Crafty Bear is out in the jungle or the
forest or something. What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 8 (01:11:00):
This one is a is a fun one. I think
the first time I have fond memories of it because
the first time I saw it was on the twenty
twenty two Star Trek Cruise. Denise crossed me to her
intertellar improv thing with this episode, so that was the
first time I had ever seen it, so it was
nice to want to watch it watch it again with
like the like the actual, actual, the actual dialogue, and

(01:11:24):
I enjoyed. I also love Angelique Petty John. She was
very much giving me total Lady Got Lady Gaga with
the outfit and the hair that is absolutely something she
would wear on. She would wear on stage. And when
I mentioned that this much to Chris McGee last night
when we were chat we were chatting, he pointed out

(01:11:45):
that her and Kirk definitely had quite the bad romance.
Had to pass that little that little gem along because
it made me left very much out loud, pardon me
for looking down, and got my notes on the bench here,
and I to me and I did my usual looking
at looking up the things, and the screenwriter came up
with the idea after seeing a recent re release in

(01:12:08):
theaters of Spartacus. So that's where the whole glad Gladiator
gladiator thing kind of kind of came kind of came from.
And the I thought the voice of one of the
providers sounded a little bit familiar to when I when
I looked up at IMDb, one of the voices is
the same voice you hear giving the Impossible Mission force

(01:12:30):
their missions at the beginning of episodes of the original
Mission of Possible TV series, which filmed in uh like
a nearby studio, And I guess that particular actor was
was a fan of the show, So it's it's not
I haven't seen very many episodes of that, but my
dad enjoyed it, so the voice was a little a

(01:12:51):
little bit familiar to me. And because I love like fun,
fun symbols and things Celtic work, all that sort of stuff,
I found what a truskellion is. I thought you guys
might enjoyed quick little historyals. Sorry, there's a mosquitoism and
bothering my hat, and apparently it's Triskellion is an ancient

(01:13:14):
symbol that's been used in Greek, Roman and Celtic cultures.
The earliest use of it is in thirty two hundred
BC on a stone that's at the entrance to a
town town in Ireland. It's a symbol that is older
than the Pyramids and embraced by cultures that revere the

(01:13:35):
number three is sacred. So maybe that's also probably why
there were three three brains.

Speaker 4 (01:13:41):
And I think it's just really.

Speaker 8 (01:13:46):
And that symbol is really really neat, and yeah, yeah,
I very very much enjoy it. And the quat loose
that would actually make a fun I've thought of this
the other day the other day, that quat lous would
make interesting name for a name for like a pet.
I think I might have to name name a kat

(01:14:09):
quat lou, just because it's a fun it's a fun word.
I enjoyed that word. But I did make up a
quick haiku and I thought of after Kirk. After Kirk
and them leave, She's getting Sean is getting her education.
She starts with a with a simple haiku and this
is maybe the haiku she she might have written because

(01:14:30):
she was thinking about Kirk when she wrote it. Her
has taught me much. He has changed the stars for me.
I will remember. And yes, I am a fan of
this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Thank you very much. Carrie Schwent a k a crafty bear.
All right, everybody in the comments below, let us know
what pet would you call?

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
Quat Lou.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
That's a good one. Good question there. Chris Garris, what's up?
Chris Garrison, the Heart of Texas. He's out in Houston
right now. What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
So?

Speaker 10 (01:15:06):
This was, you know, my first time to actually watched
this episode. I'm not yeah, I haven't actually watched off
t os yet. I'm doing it as we're going through
it now. But I really enjoyed it. The only part
and every we've talked about it, honestly, the only part
that really bothered me was the whole of her scene.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
You know up there when she was Yeah, I just didn't.

Speaker 10 (01:15:26):
Yeah, I didn't like that one, but you know, again
it was the sign it was at the time, signed
the times back then, unfortunately.

Speaker 6 (01:15:35):
And I did love Walter scene.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
With his drill thrall. That was just that was so funny.

Speaker 10 (01:15:43):
But no, it was really other than that, really that
one seat. It was just a good episode. I truly
enjoyed it. You know, I had a lot of action.
Kirk kicked but when he you know, as much as
he can, and I had forgotten, you know, you know,
I didn't know how they're gonna do it. Like I'm
glad he did not kill her because that would have

(01:16:04):
not gone over very well at the very end, I
don't think. But no, it's just one thing that I
could not stop seeing. If you looked at I think
it was Lars. They're all Lars. Every time I looked
at him, I was like, I thought he he looked
like either Elvis to me or I vowed Kilmore at

(01:16:25):
some in something was younger like in yeah, much younger
when he was in that real uh anyway, And I
was like, I just cannot stop seeing that. But no,
it was a it was a good TOS episode. I
really have other than that one complaint. That's really the
only thing I have, you know, the shell kick. But

(01:16:47):
like everybody said, you know, I'm kind of curious and
we may talk about this thing that I'm said about
all the stunts and who all did those, So I'm
kind of curious about that part of it. But yeah, again, overall,
that's why I gave it an eight whatever I said,
because I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Great stuff, Thank you very much once Yeah, accept that one.
Chris garrets out in Houston this time. Well that's about
it for us, except for Jake's final take Srock. Any
final thoughts on today's episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Yeah, a couple of things.

Speaker 4 (01:17:24):
One is when uh Spock is going on the computer
and he basically programs the computer to ask the computer,
you know, what's the next step to go to the
next location. I thought it was interesting because they mentioned
computer several times in this episode and Spot says, I
fitted into the computer, I'm going to wait for the answer,

(01:17:46):
And that's not much like us now asking Siri or
some kind of other AI like what's the answer to
this question? You know, here are the parameters and what's
the answer, So them basically forecasting something that we use
now on a daily basis, which is this kind of
question in asking of artificial intelligence. I thought that's pretty

(01:18:08):
you know, ahead of its time. So I like to
see that nod right there. Spock mentions Daniel and the lions.
Then I thought that was cool because again you get
some biblical references in there. You always get little nuggets
of some kind of biblical references, and that was one

(01:18:33):
of them. I think they were mispronouncing quait lose, quat loose.
It's quay lose, guys, so it wasn't a money thing.
I wasn't sure about the whole like, you guys are
too dumb, so you have to learn before we can

(01:18:55):
like like free you, because I felt like it wasn't
that many thralls, and it felt like they needed to
be liberated. And it also felt like they were being
held there against their will. And it looked like they
got there the same way Kirk got there, which is
basically against his will and vanished from some place. So
I don't see why you wouldn't release those people. That

(01:19:17):
doesn't seem you would leave them with their captors, hoping
that their captors have evolved based on this wager that
Kirk placed. I don't see that as a logical outcome
or a humane thing to do and say, oh, you
know what, I talked to the guys that have been
torturing you and enslaving you. They're totally going to treat

(01:19:40):
you nice and let you self govern. But nobody's ever
going to come back and check to see if that
has the case. So we hope that that is the case,
and good luck with the rest of your life. That
doesn't exactly seem like the moral thing to do, so
sorry if I'm nitpicky on that. Yeah, I also think

(01:20:02):
it's a little bit weird to volunteer your entire crew
into slavery when when this episode is about free will
versus slavery, and now you're taking away the free will
of your entire crew. Maybe they don't want to join

(01:20:22):
up for the Oh I didn't sign up for this,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
I don't want Kirk fighting three guys. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
I don't know what the odds are here. This doesn't
sound like a logical.

Speaker 6 (01:20:31):
Bed for me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
I'm not signing up.

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
So you're removing everybody else's free will so that you
can achieve free will. It's kind of a weird thing
to me. Question wise, I think the Ahura scene, which
I felt very uncomfortable with too, is the assault that
they essentially were. They're showing us without showing us or

(01:20:54):
suggesting that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
I think that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
Would have been better served if it went to Chekhov's character.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
I thought, if Chekhov was in the room and you.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
Heard the fighting and the struggling and maybe you didn't
see anything, that would have that would have played better
for me. I would have been okay with that less
less than the woman picking on the woman. You know,
let's make it something else, switch it up a little bit,
and then I'll say Shauna did the most mad dogging

(01:21:25):
on Ahura.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
In that final scene when they were.

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
Sitting on the bench together, A horror tries to get
up I think to help Kirk or something to that effect,
and she looks at her like, that's my man.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
And it was.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
Since it was the biggest mad dog I think I've
ever seen, and I loved it, so I thought that
was actually her best act. Had moment she cut some
laser eyes at a horror.

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
So yeah, that's that's about it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
I thought it was it was fun, but some of
the messages that they were trying to leave, like where
you walk away with some kind of moral victory or
some kind of message. I don't think it really had
one definitive one that you know, you could say, oh, yeah,
that was a story about this, or that. It seemed
a little scattered and you know, not really flushed out

(01:22:18):
all the way.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
But did I enjoy it? Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
And I thought Angelique was beautiful to watch and also
gave a good performance, So yeah, I liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Walter, any final thoughts on today's episode before we go?

Speaker 5 (01:22:36):
You know, I just turned eighty nine, so I'm an
old old person, so my comments are shaded my age
and my chain. Oh screw it. Okaya was depand in

(01:23:00):
to the sexual element in the story. It was a
little lobbyous to me. It was a little over over
the top, so much as my Jewish family would say,
so much kissing. I heard of all that he didn't
need it. And then the bear chess and the skimpy costumes. Okay,

(01:23:27):
it's it's it's a sign of the times. I guess
it's what we were dealing with. And we gotta we
gotta stay on the air. We got to appeal to everybody.
So that's I mean, it didn't revolt me or disgust
me or turn me off. I just felt it was
a little obvious. That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Agreed, all right, Thank you very much, Walter, and thank
you to Chris, Carrie, Chuck, TJ. Faith, Alison, Melissa for myself,
Walter Sirok, Malissa Longo, and mister Aaron Eisenberg. Thank you
all very much for hanging out with us. Everybody, if
you're a patron, stick around and check out things left unsaid.

(01:24:11):
Turns out my elementary school was called Ruskin Elementary. If
anybody can guess what our mascot was, you'll get forty
years of free Seventh Rule membership. All right, everybody, we'll
see it, see you on the other side. Put your
guesses in the comments below, and until then, always remember

(01:24:33):
the Seventh Rule.

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The Newcomers | With Walter Koenig | TOS 2.16, "The Gamesters Of Triskellion" | T7R #369

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Newcomers | With Walter Koenig | TOS 2.16, "The Gamesters Of Triskellion" | T7R #369