Western | With Robert Hewitt Wolfe | TNG 6.8 "A Fistful of Datas" | T7R #364 - The 7th Rule -- A Star Trek Podcast with DS9's Cirroc Lofton

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Data isn't just another electronics system, Jordi isn't just another
biological organism, and Eli Hollander is called the Butcher of Bozeman. Hello, everybody,
and welcome to the Seventh Rule? Was sarrock Lofton?

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello?

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello, my name is Ryan T. Huskin. Today we're doing
a review of Star Trek the Next Generation, Season six,
episode eight, A fistful of Data's story by Robert Hewitt Wolf.
Teleplay by Brannon Braga and Robert Hewitt Wolf. This is
directed by Patrick Stewart. November seventh, nineteen ninety two. Where

(00:35):
were you? We've got a very special guest, everybody. Can
you believe it? We have the writer of the episode.
I believe this is his first Star Trek episode ever written. Finally,
Robert has returned to the Seventh Rule. How are you today, sir?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
I'm good, Thank you, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
This is awesome. So glad to finally it feels like forever,
doesn't it? Sarak?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
It does? It does? But you know, I'm glad we're
gonna knock this episode out because this is like, this
is good.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
M hm so, and that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
You're done with me. You can wash your hands in
me forever.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
No, not at all. So everybody at home we had
Robert all the time joining us, giving us his insights,
his memories, his stories, his thoughts all over our Deep
Space nine reviews, and then we started Next Generation. We're like,
what the heck that's right, because we're going backwards here, Robert.
This is the only episode that you are credited as

(01:32):
a writer for in the Next Generation. So this is
where you got your start with Star Trek and kind
of in writing as far as television writing is concerned.
Can you please just kind of walk us through the
process of how you got your foot in the door
and got them to say, we got to hang on
to this guy.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
So I went to film school for screenwriting, and when
I was while I was there, I placed second in
a fairly prestigious screenwriting contest, and so I got an agent.
And then I was still in school and I was
focused on features, and I wasn't selling. I hadn't sold anything,

(02:13):
but I'd written a science fiction piece that almost got sold.
We were literally negotiating with a company and they went
bankrupt in the middle of the negotiations's but I guess
better that they didn't like go bankrupt and never pay
me for something they'd agreed to.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
But anyway, so.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
One of the agents that the agent cha I was
at represented Joe Minowski and at the time, Next Generation
had pretty much an open door writing, you know, open
door to pitches policy, and there were a couple of
different ways you could get in. One was by submitting
a spec next Generation. They would read it, cover it,
and if I liked it, they might invite you into pitch.

(02:53):
And that's how Ron and Renee got in. We had interns,
and that's how Brandon got in. Or if you were represented,
if you actually had an agent, especially if you had
an agent to represented one of the other writers, you
could they would just schedule you if they would read
a sample. So they read this this big science fiction
eporch that I wrote, and they invited me in the pitch.

(03:15):
And first time I came in, I pitched them two ideas.
I really only came in with two ideas at a time,
but they were always really well fleshed out. I don't
know whether they liked that or didn't. They didn't buy
it or one of them, but they invited me back.
The second time I pitched two more ideas. They didn't
buy it, and one of them they invited me back,
and I was like, okay, well if they don't.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
If I don't sell something this time, I'm done.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
Like they're not gonnavite me back a fourth time. So
I came in with two pretty fleshed out ideas. When
was a time travel story that I was super confident in.
I felt really good about it. It was set during
the Watts riots. It was like a Jordi and Bicard episode.
Pitched the whole thing out and they wrote. They seemed
to really like it. They were like, yeah, but we're

(04:00):
shooting a time travel episode right now. We can't do
another one. They were doing Times zero. Like literally, as
I was pitching this, so frustrated, I was like, oh
my god. So I was so frustrated. I actually like,
I was sitting at the edge of this couch.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
I was pitching it like Brannon and Joe and Renee
and I think Pete Fields might have been in there.
It was like all of them. Ron I was so frustrated.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
I was sitting this office and I yeah, I bang
my head on the arm of the couch because I
was like.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
All right, okay, I got this other one.

Speaker 4 (04:30):
And war friend now going to the hall deck, and
meanwhile Data is like doing this upgrade to the ship
where he's like plugged in to see if he can
be the chip's computer. And as they're in there, Data
Data basically infects all the Hollisuite characters until like they're
all they all turned into Data and the only and
all the safety protocols are off and the only way
for work to end the program is to beat Data

(04:50):
in a gunfight.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
And they bought it. I mean it was a little
more involved than that, but that was it. And so
they bought it.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Which was great with my first professional sale, and I
came in. We broke the story together. I wrote the
story document. I actually looked for the scripts and the
story doctors. I can't find them for the life of me.
Have all the Deep Space nine stuff, but I can't
find any of it, just the Data stuff. So I

(05:20):
wrote the story document, wrote the outline. I guess I
liked the script well enough that they, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Well just for right, there was that something you already
had in your mind? Like or was it just like
come up with it on the spot, Like how did that?

Speaker 4 (05:36):
I already had it in my head? I already had
it pretty well worked out. It wasn't as well worked
out as a time travel one, but I was sort
of I thought it'd be fun to do an homage
to like Specter the Gun, the original series episode, and
I just thought the idea of war versus data and
a gunfight O West gun fight was really fun. And

(05:59):
so I had a pretty well worked out. Some of
the beats that are in there now are still the
ones I pitched, like a big gun fight at the
end between the two of them and Alexander being the
deputy and Troy joining them, And then we broke the
story based pretty much on what I wrote, and it

(06:21):
was great. I was, you know, a freelancer, but I
was in there with all the whole crew, the whole
writing office.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Hey Robert, and then yeah, sorry, I was just gonna
ask you just to know, yeah, give us a little
bit of context here. Were you a big Old West fan?
I mean, this feels like this comes from the heart
of somebody that's watched a lot of it. But yeah,
maybe that just kind of maybe you just studied up
on it to write the episode. I mean, how big
of an Old West fan were you? Was this something
like oh man, one of these days I got to

(06:48):
write an old West, something.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I honestly was.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
I wouldn't characterize myself as a big Western fan, but
like I taken. You know, I've been to film school
and as a result, I sat through you know, High
Noon and a few other of the big seminole westerns.
I always liked The Menus in seven. That was always
one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
But I would westerns.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Weren't my favorite genre, to be honest, just because honestly,
like especially cowboys and Indians, I sort of had issue
with the I rooted for the Indians too much, I think.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
And so.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
But you know, I just thought it would at at
its heart, like original series was pitched as a Western,
and there are definitely Western elements to Star Trek, you know,
Jeane Roddenberry pitched the original series and by extension Next Generation,
I sort of wagon trained to the stars, like and
I think, you know, Michael and Rick for d Space

(07:53):
and I were partially at least thinking of the riflemen,
you know, about a single father on the front here,
that kind of thing. So you know, I think I'd
done my homework already. I didn't have to do it again.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, wow, And that was.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh, so, let me first say, this is like a
fantastic episode that the name of the episode. This is
one of the few episodes Yesterday's Enterprise and certain other
ones where I hadn't watched the show, but the name
of the show was already famous.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I already knew about that title of the episode before
I actually watched it. And there's a few of those
out the city on the edge.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Of Forever for inter Light, you remember, You're like, oh,
the inn life. Finally I want to watch this one.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
So just like these these titles that people just throw
out there, and I hear them all the time, right,
I see people wearing shirts that say darmonck and jelat
on tanagra. Right, what does that mean? Right? And so
now that I'm watching these episodes, I'm like, oh, so
this is the episode that everybody talks about. Fis full

(09:03):
of data. You know, the name has already been kind
of seered into my memory. And I was so enjoying
this episode because I think it had all of the
elements that I looked for in an episode, which is
a little bit of the science fiction, a little bit
of the a little bit of humor, a little bit
of puzzle solving, a little bit of a an A
story and a B story that that worked well together.

(09:24):
They flow and compliment each other. And also the music
was amazing. I thought as well.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
It just oh yeah, the music.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Great, it's so great.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
Was that ol In or Jay I can't remember who
did that one?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
In it compliments the episode, I mean to the tea
and I and I've literally just finished watching another episode
of some other show where I did not like the scoring,
and I told Brian it had like a cartoon type
you know scoring to it, and it took away from
the seriousness. This had just the right tone of the
for the scoring, you know, to give it the seriousness,

(10:02):
to give it the western field, to give it. You know,
it was just great.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
It was Alexander courage. Wait, great job. Yeah, well that's sorry,
that's just the theme, the title theme. I'll keep checking.
I know there's some people right now screaming at their
screens right now that the answer.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Should look because it popped out at me rewatching it yesterday.

Speaker 6 (10:28):
You heard it.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Scoring.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yeah, it's so great.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
I mean playing with that, you know, the TNG elements,
but like then turning it into.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
A Western score. I just thought it was really really
well done.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Agreed, Agreed. When did you know that Patrick Stewart was
going to be directing this episode?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
It got away by the way, Sorry, yeah, great job.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
I like the freelance thing is just completely different than
being on staff, So I didn't I don't think I
ever until like they were they told me maybe right
before it was shooting or something like that. But like,
the way that that worked is I wrote the outline,
turned in the outline, they liked it. They asked me
to write a script. I wrote the first draft, gave.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
It to them, and then that was it.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Like they took that and then they gave it to
Brandon and he basically rewrote giant chunks of it. I mean,
the reason his name is on there is because I
would say, you know, seventy five percent of the script
at the end of the day is his. I mean,
it's my story, but it's definitely his script, like the
teaser his mind. But there were a lot of big
differences between Like I didn't have any of that.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Combatge four shield stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
At all.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
My Western story was different. It was a little more
about it like a railway company trying to take it
over a town instead of like the Gunfighter with the
murderer son. You know, oh man, that's Rio Bravo. I
think mine was a little more, honestly, like a straight
version of Blazing Saddles.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
The plot, just the plot.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well, let's Rio Bravo. That's what's that.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Rio Bravo's a old classic Western, where like the sheriff
has this killer in the jail and then his family
is coming to break him out, and you know it's
kind of like the big the big gun fight's gonna
happen because he's gonna have to fight all these guys
that are coming.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
So the first time working with Brannan or did you
work with him or does he.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
Just no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
So when you're a freelancer on Star Trek and you
turn the straight okay, that's basically it. Like over the
later Yeah, we used to say you threw it over
the transom, like you know those those office winds, those
office doors and those little windows at the top. You
just toss it in there and then that's you know,
then they're going to go off and do their thing.
And and like they had to do, some of it

(12:57):
was production based. I mean, there's some really smart production
things that they did in their version, and that Brandon
did and I'm sure with the help of the staff
did in their version. Like they used the Cave sets,
they spent a lot more time in the Whosco, which
I'm sure they built on set.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
There was you know, they didn't use the Western Town.
I think they used probably I don't even know what.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Well, that's what I want to ask you about. And
I'm kind of bummed because I think I know the
answer based on just tossing it over the script. That is,
you didn't get to visit the set then, as it
because we know the staff writers. You know, you got
to be there, you know, for the questions that they
may have no producers. I guess that's more recent nowadays,
but like they're like they got to be on set

(13:46):
to like, oh man, So I don't.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
Even know if brand was on set, it might have
gone and visited for like an hour, but like so if.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
He wasn't, then there's no chance you had no you
don't even know where it was because it looked like
such a beautiful set.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
It was either the Warner Brothers Western I think it
was the Warner Brothers Western sets, their Western Town, which
is in the Valley. I'm pretty sure that's what it was,
because I've been to Paramount Ranch and paramot Raane. It
looked a little different paramot Range burned down, but I'm

(14:19):
pretty sure that that was the Warner Brothers Western sets,
which I think we're used for like gun smoking stuff.
I'm not quite sure. I thought it was really funny
watching it again because there's a couple of shots where
Patrick and I'm not sure who was it, Marvin the
dp uh they or Jonathan one of the other.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Anyway, they shot off the sets. They literally.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Still really yeah, yeah, but oh it was okay, it
was Warner Brothers. Okay, great, it looks like it. Yeah,
that's probably it. But there's a set, there's a there's
a couple of masters where you can see that they're
shooting a flat and I was like, why did they
do it that way? But I don't know whether they
were just like it was a wink to the whole
thing was a Holo deck program and they just kind

(15:04):
of want to show the artificial It's very subtle. It's
like upscreen left and you can just see that they're
shooting like what we call a flat or it's a
facade essentially, it's like a house with just the front.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
And then when Warf has the.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Plans for the street and he's laying out his plans,
those are blueprints of the street. They're based on blueprints
of the street, and it's just fasides like you can
see like.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
The on the map that he has. It's just like
all the buildings are like this thick, you know, and
it's just like a series of facades. It was very funny.
But yeah, no, I mean they did a great job.

Speaker 4 (15:43):
I think Patrick got really I hear I heard Patrick
got really into it.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
This is the first thing you ever directed, I think,
so cool.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Well, it's the first good thing you ever directed.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
I think, yeah, one, this was the second. I think
what was the other one?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
I think one for this Yeah, oh maybe okay, And
it wasn't as good as this at all at all.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Well, he really, he really.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
I think a lot of like the hat, there's all
kinds of like references that that I think he put
in the costumers put in there to different Westerns. The
hat and the guns and all that stuff is just
very specific. Each little piece of an outfit is a
different Western inspired I mean some of them, who knows
they might have just gone to Western Prop and costume
and rent the actual things from gun Smoke.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
You know, those things are still.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
Sitting out there or they were thirty something years they're
still sitting in warehouses and you can just go rent them.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:37):
So like, yeah, I did not get to do the
production unfortunately summer.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
So when was it then? Okay, so this is this
is like, this is your first episode. You throw it
over the window, it gets picked up, You basically don't
see anybody after that. When does this lead to more
for you?

Speaker 3 (17:02):
So? Yeah, they they shot it, I believe. I think
the next interaction.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Was I got the shooting script because they were putting
Brandon's name on it, which they did back in the day.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
We didn't do that on these Space nine at the
end of like we did it.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
The first season or two when Michael was in charge,
because Michael thought that the that the credit should reflect
he did the work. But Ira was like, yeah, you
don't put your.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Name on freelance script until we stopped doing that.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Anyway, So they had to give me the script or
they did give me the script, because you could I
could have arbitrated.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
I could have argued, oh no, it's all me.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
You know that's for that also means royalties and stuff
like that, right, and just.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah, yeah, so like I get two thirds of the
residuals that Brandon gets the third on this it's fine,
Like I mean that that was the culture and and
I don't I'm not. And Brandon did a great job,
by the way. So I got the script. I read it,
and I was like, okay, well they changed a lot
of stuff. Some of it was like, oh, this pissed
me off.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
You know, I did not. I gotta be honest. I
did not love the force field.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
I thought my answer to how he survived that gun
was better, but it was also probably unproducible.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
And way too violent for Star Trek.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
So all right, but I'll tell you what. I'll tell
you how much?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah please, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
So Warf has to take on Data in a gunfight.
Data is faster than him, you know, Android flexes. There's
no way he's gonna draw him all that stuff. So
in mind, Warf just is like he just takes the bullets.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
He's a klingon.

Speaker 4 (18:40):
He has two of every internal organ and he just
positions himself in such a way that he doesn't lose
both of anything. Gets shot five times, falls to the ground.
Data walks up and stands over him with the last bullet.
You know, Warf is struggling to get up. Data says like,
just lae there, take it like a man hand and

(19:03):
Wharf looks up to him and says, I am not
the man coming on. And he reached, leaps up, rips
open the back of the Data's head and hits the
off Data's emergency.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
This is great. That's how he wins.

Speaker 6 (19:19):
And then the other thing is the only way to
end the program is not just to like acknowledge the
bar maid, but he has to kiss her full on
the lips.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
I thought that too.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
That's I thought that too. I thought that too, And
so in.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
It's Data as the bid and Wharf gives him a
big kiss on the lips and that's the end. I
thought that that in my mind, and probably in Brandon's
script it was a cheap kiss.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
But they didn't even do that. She just like she
just leans up against Wharf and then and then that
it's the program.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
It's just like a hug, so obviously stands in practices.
Was not even a cheek kiss? Was a bridge too
far for them? Thirty something years ago.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
So those are the too big.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
I like, but look, I could have but look, even
if I had been on staff, I think I would
have lost those fights. Yeah, because I don't think that
those fights were I don't think they changed those things
because they wanted to. I think they changed those things
because having work shot six times on cam or five
times on camera, that's a lot of like wardrobe changes

(20:38):
and blood packs, and it's like a lot.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
And also Star Trek doesn't usually do any of that stuff.

Speaker 6 (20:43):
Doesn't show blood right, doesn't show blood, show a little
blood leaking out of his shirt the one time he gets.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
Winning by a bullet earlier in the episode. But yeah,
those are two big things. The other thing that we
really bummed me out was there was a great scene.
I thought it was there because I'd read it in
the script. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I just
missed it, blinked and missed it. But there was a
scene that Brandon wrote that I loved, where Eli and

(21:10):
Deanna are in the huskow by themselves and Deanna says
to Eli, so you've killed twenty three men, And Eli
says some fucking snarky thing, and he's like, tell me
how does that make you feel like.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
I know, I was like for years.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
Literally the only time I've seen this Honestly, the only
time I've actually seen this episode is at a screening
party that my friend hosted for me at his house because.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
It was my first credit and all my friends from
film schos.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, we all came and we all watched it together.
That's the only time I've seen this episode.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
It's like two or something.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
I mean literally it was. Yeah, it was literally ninety two.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
I had just gotten on staff on Deep Space nine
because I got on staff like the week before that,
I think.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
And so another.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Thing I want to acknowledge as well is this was
the best father son episode for Warf, who has been
kind of an absent. Yeah, and they didn't write they
didn't write him well, but yet in this episode he
actually is a great dad and he's having a moment
with his kid. And I thought, if they could just
write that, like, we'll write it like that, then he

(22:24):
doesn't look like an asshole. But with his son, he
could just be the reluctant, you know, play a long partner.
And I thought, that's perfect.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
That was my like, that was my intention.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Was that and the other thing is I wanted Wharf
to look like a badass. Yeah, you know, because I think.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I kicked in every episode so far.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
Well they were doing to be honest, they were doing
better by like season six, but it was my intent
that like Warf looked like like so the first time
that whole thing where he just in decks the guy
and it's too easy, you know, or or in my
version where he like takes the bullets and then beats
the crop out of data.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Like to me, I just thought.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
That those are just opportunities to like give Wharf his due,
you know, And then we got to do that all
day long once he came on.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
So it was.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Wow, Well we only had you for a couple more minutes, Robert,
and we really appreciate you hanging out. But sorry, what
were you saying to.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Us Rock now? Because I feel like you also brought
some of that element to Deep Sage nine and you
mentioned that just now, But it's like you literally took
a lot of this and brought it over to DS nine,
you know, like I said, with the great story, law writing,
the relationships, the trying to bring out the best of
characters and have certain elements of their character shine. So

(23:45):
that you know, they look heroic or brave or more fears.
I mean that's to me, those are That's what great
writing is about it. It's about how do we bring
out the best of this character and how can we
make the audience love them or like them more? And
I think that's what you did with this. I I
loved it. I loved watching war More as a father. Normally,

(24:10):
when it's an Alexander episode, I'm like, oh, God.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Worf was so much more likely with this one. Yes, yes,
he didn't have to be like I mean, you didn't
have to change completely, just be himself. But like not
lame about it, but sorry, were you saying, Robert.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Oh, I just wish.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
I feel like because we had Avery and and and
you you know that that relationship, it's probably why we
didn't do much alex Well.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I think we did one Alexander.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
It's not really great, but uh, it would have been
nice to do more for that relationship on Deep Space too,
But I think the bandwidth for that kind of relationship
was already there, so you know, we didn't really Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
You didn't have to lean in so so much. It
already it existed. But in this one, you kind of
needed it a little more because Wharf looks like an
absentee father and this this actually gives them some redemption,
redemptive qualities. It's fun, It's just fun. Yeah, this is
really one of my favorite episodes. So when did you

(25:14):
start getting like people coming to you about this episode
or when did you realize that you had written an
episode that was amongst the you know, the stars of
the episodes of Star Trek, one of the one of
the great episodes.

Speaker 4 (25:32):
I don't know, I think it was probably I mean,
I think, you know, the fan magazines back then gave
it pretty good reviews, which was nice and gratifying.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
I think, you.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
Know, every once in a while, it's really like since
the Internet and the last like kind of in a
weird way, since the streaming era began, that people like
talk about their favorite all time Star Trek episodes a
little more often, or that they're you know, it's on
the Internet instead of some fan magazine that you know.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah you read once and it's in a drawer.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
So I think, you know, probably over the last ten
fifteen years, I realized that people had a real affection
for the episode, which again, like you know, I'll take
a little credit for it, but you know, a lot
of that goes to Brandon and Patrick and Michael and
you know, the whole crew. I think the story, I
like to think the story was really smart and fun,

(26:28):
and then you know, my first draft there was some elements,
but I really think, you know, this was this was
clearly the machine of the time that that did this work.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
So I think, I I don't take it as I.

Speaker 4 (26:44):
Don't want to say personally that sounds wrong, but I
don't feel the same level of ownership of this as
I do over like a Deep Space nine episode where
I had a lot more to do and I took
it all the way to the end.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know, I freelanced for a.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Few shows, you know, or even Feel the Fire and
do Faceline, which is the same thing where I was
a freelancer and I didn't take it all.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
The way to the end. Those episodes like or my Twilight.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Zone or the Dead Zone episode I did as freelancers,
those don't have the same level to me of like,
I don't feel the same level of ownership. So it's
really I think it's great that people love this episode,
but I also feel like, you know, in a weird way,
it's like way less to do with me than something like.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
You know, way the Warrior wrote Ira or you know
awesome or the Wire, which I did that was more mine.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
You know, well, you know that this you know that
this episode made it Robert because there are action figures
made of this episode. I remember that as a kid
seeing those action figures. And I love seeing people costplay
this episode because yeah, there's no mistaking it for any
other episode.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
You know, it's always fun, but.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
They're cost playing, so it's got to be great to
see that.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
That's fun.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Yeah, it's really fun to see people dressed as like
Durango or Yea, you know, as as data as holland Er.
You know, I think that that's Warf in his in
his Western out there. It's it's fun to see that,
you know, counselor during counselor Yeah, exactly, I mean how
great Marina, Marina is great.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Fantastic, everybody straight in this episode. To me, this is
a fun episode. This is like the take Me Out
to the Hollow Suite of Next Generation type episodes, like
my praise. It's fun. Yeah, it's like it's it's fun.
It's you get to see the characters acting a little
bit outside of their normal kind of behavior. And I

(28:41):
and I love that. You know, I'm writing down all
your lines. I'm sitting here writing all this stuff down,
and I just thought it was so good.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
And when you when you watched it back, whose performance
made you laugh the most when you were watching it?

Speaker 4 (29:00):
I mean, all three of them are really really fun
to be honest, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
I mean I think.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
Obviously, like in a way, Spiner gets to you know,
two up more of the scenery than anybody else.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
But I was like, I was like really like into Marina.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
You know, she was doing some really fun stuff and
switching between her normal accent in the Western accent and
like the whole thing where she's practicing speed draw. It's
like there's a lot she has a lot of really
fun moments in that in that episode. And you know,
obviously Michael gets gets to you know, it's he gets

(29:40):
to do all his Michael's Really I think people underappreciate
how good Michael is like doing all that stuff under
all even harder than Brent to like to wear that
oh ahead and all that stuff and still give that
current performance is really good.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah, and it works because he's serious and he's not
He's almost not playing along, right, So yeah, that's that's
the contrast that makes it work. So well, everybody's got
their Southern accent on and he's just like, I need you.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
To come with me.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah, he's he's War. You know.

Speaker 7 (30:18):
The thing is, like everybody else is playing a character,
he's warm in it in an advent because I mean,
like again, like I feel like people don't always appreciate
like the straight man in a comedy.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yes, you know, yes, that's really hard to counterbalance.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
The counterbalance, it allows everybody else's lines to hit better.
I like, for example, when Marina kind of gave him
to look like you need to think, you know, like
she just did something for you, War and she likes you.
You better, you know, something like oh, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Way to go. Yeah, well, Robert, we know you have
to run, but we do very much appreciate you take
in the time for us. Say, it's been way too
long and it's unbelievable you were only in one episode
or wrote for one episode of TNG. So that's why
we're just powering through as quickly as we can so
that we could get back to some Robert Hewitt Wolf

(31:15):
episodes of Deep Space nine or something like that, but
continued success. You're always working and you get a ton
of work. You're always got something up your sleeve, and
it's always so wonderful catching up with you. Thank you
so much for hanging out with us. Great to see
you both as always.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Amazing episode.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Man, everybody stick around. We're going to be covering way
more of this episode. On the other side, we'll be
right back on the Seventh Rule. Hey, everybody, welcome back
to the Seventh Rule with sack Frickin' loftin.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Hello.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
I don't know if you're a fan of the Old
West to the Western movies. We'll have to find out
in a just second. I think maybe medium, Yeah, based
on that head tilt. Here are and special thanks of
course Robert Hewitt Wolf. He's just welcome back anytime. We
love that guy to death. Here are the trivioids of
the week. The Enterprise has entered orbit of Nike deon
Knight shoot. I should have learned how to say that word.

(32:11):
Deanonnicus seven. The car changes the clarinet to an obo.
Beverly wants to talk about something for breakfast. Picard would
make a wonderful Butler. The Enterprise will be taking its
new personnel at Starbase one point eighteen. Data isn't just
another electronic system. Geordie isn't just another biological organism. Eli
Hollander is called the Butcher of Bozeman, Montana. Riiker reads

(32:35):
Data's ode to spot and Wharf orders some klingon fire wine.
All right, So, just to finish that conversation, Sarrock, would
you say, medium Western fan kind of just know a
little bit here and there, No big deal. You're not
a Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood kind of guy.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
You know, I'm aware of Westerns. I'm not a big Westerns.
I didn't grew up in that space right there. But
if I have to mention a Western that is that
I have seen that I liked, I would put the
good to bad and the ugly. Oh he is one of.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
My favorite Tombstone. Tombstone is stone out of this world good,
Oh my god, Tombstone.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And then I saw the new version of three ten
to Yuma. I thought that was a really good one
with Christian Bale and Russell Crowe. So yeah, I've seen
a few, Yeah, I've seen a few Westerns.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
All right, so let's talk about this episode a little
bit more, because you know, like I feel like Brent
Spiner just keeps showing off in the best way. Like
when he flipped from saying well, he said I reckon,

(33:58):
I reckon the bubble and he and he just swich right.
It wasn't from sentence to sentence, it was in between
where he took a breath, he said I reckon the
process will be or whatever. It was like, it was
just like so I was like, he said, of them,
now at this point, you're just showing off. You're just
telling everybody, look what I can do. But also it's
just such a great juicy steak that the writers feed

(34:20):
him every once in a while. Right, Sometimes he's just
playing data and it's up to Brent Spiner to do
something that impresses us. But sometimes the writers give him
some really good stuff to where he can show off,
and this was one of those. So I really appreciated
him yet again and his super talents.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, I was thinking about you when he did that
whole switch, and I was like, I know Ryan's seeing this.
This guy is on another level. H Yeah, I mean,
Brent Speiner is just it's just fantastic, and he takes
every opportunity to make the most of whatever his dialogue is.

(35:04):
No matter what it is, what scene he's in. He
could be giving technobabble with Jordie, he could be just
answering the captain's orders. But whatever it is, he puts
his all into that moment and he tries to eat
up the scenery and you know, and the moment as

(35:25):
best he can. And so I don't think he ever
gives I haven't seen him give any half assed performances
or you know, like phone anything in He's always going.
He's always trying to do the best data that he
can do, and it's fantastic to watch.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Right And you know what else, Man when he played
the big bad the Dad, I think it was like
Frank or something like that.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, Frank.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
That was actually I was like, whoa, I have never
seen Brent Spiner play this kind of role. We've seen
him like Funny or goofy. I was really I didn't
remember this. I was really shocked at how good he
was at being confident, intimidating, sure of himself like that.

(36:19):
It was I was like, dude, bro is doc Holiday
right now? But without the drinking like he was. That
was a plus that was better than I think the
flipping back and forth between the accents, because this was
like a complete shift in anything we've ever seen Brent
Spiner do. And I was watching him like a hawk,

(36:40):
and I couldn't believe how different and great that performance
was from everything else he's ever done, because everything else
he does has a hint of vulnerability in a way,
you know what I mean. Like Data, it's like, oh,
Data is kind of cute. Even more is a pitiable character.

(37:01):
The son Eli, you know, is evil and terrible, but
he's kind of like, you know, pitiable at least like
you or you know, you're not too scared to him.
But the dad was very intimidating and very good, I mean,
just huge a plus to Brent Spiner for that character.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, and in the example that you gave in which
all four characters are Data and they all look like data,
so there's no like real crazy transformation visually or makeup
aesthetics that can enhance his performance. So he's doing Data

(37:45):
looking like Data, and he gives you Lore, which is
a variation that is completely different than any other variation
of this of Data's alter egos, right, Laura is has
a different tone, different delivery method, you know, pentameter to

(38:06):
his voice. It's all slightly different, right than Data. And
then even in this episode when he's playing both the
father and the son, there is a moment there when
the father goes to see this son in the jail
and he says to him, you know, how's my boy doing?
And the son's like, oh, Paul, you know she's and

(38:27):
he's completely doing two different you can you can see
the difference in between the temperament of the father and
the son.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Totally and the way they hold themselves.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah, like body language everything, there was a complete distinction
between the two of them. There wasn't like, you know, oh,
you could tell Data is just using the same voice
and the same person for both characters. No, he has
a Eli character that carries his body in a little
bit different way and is a little bit more you know, sprawny. Yeah, yeah,

(39:00):
uh yeah. And then the father who comes in there
like you know, this elder statesman who's not afraid of
anybody's shoulders back, and you know, and so even in
the performance, the body language is different, the accents are
slightly tweaked, and this and he's doing it, you know,
right in front of our face with while playing a robot. Yeah,

(39:25):
it's just amazing.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
I did laugh a lot in this episode two, obviously,
when Eli said was you born that way? Or did
your mother marry an armadillo? That's funny. And then when
Warf knocks him out, he says, I'm beginning to see
the appeal of this program that killed me. He's like, yeah,
I like this. This is good stuff. I get to
beat people up, all right, It's like one of my programs.

(39:51):
So that was great. It was also funny when he said,
you know, counselor Troy and she says it's Durango and
he's like, yeah, counselor Rango, Counselor.

Speaker 8 (40:03):
It's all good.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Stuff, man.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah. Even when Jordy and Data were just doing their little,
you know, science work of trying to integrate the system
to Data, there was a moment where Data says, Jorty,
are you attempting to grow a beard?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
It just made me laugh the way he said it,
because it's like the word attempting.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Tempt right, excuse me, bro, what do you got? But
there was something interesting that I noticed that Data said
he was talking about subroutine C forty seven. Yeah, and Sirac,
you're nodding your head because what it is?

Speaker 4 (40:52):
There?

Speaker 1 (40:52):
It is? I had to posit it. I was like,
did I just hear C forty seven? Is that the
writers just being cute again? Because anybody that's been on
a set, especially on the production side, they know that
for some weird reason. Actually I think I know the reason. Uh,
production people call close pins C forty sevens.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
It's not faster, it's five syllables rather than two syllables.
It doesn't make any sense. So why are they calling
close pins C forty sevens? I mean the lore is
pardon me data. The lore is that because on some
set there was just a big box of clothes pins

(41:37):
and like the skew number on it said like C
forty seven, So people just start calling it that set
started calling them C four. But I remember the first
time I was on set, people were like, hey, can
you get some C forty sevens? I'm like, what the
fuck does that mean? And they're like close pins. I
was like, if you want clothes pins, why don't you
just say clothes pins? It's faster, and everybody anyway, it's

(41:58):
just a weird thing. So I thought it was cute
that they mentioned, you know, subroutine C forty seven. I'm like,
that is not a mistake, especially considering that forty seven
is the magic Star Trek number. But that was just
a fun, fun little catch there.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Deep cut, I didn't know about the closed pins C
forty seven moment.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, I was wondering. I was like, I wonder if
actors know that, if it's that's just like specifically a
production thing because production people, especially like you know, grips
people that you know are dealing with like lighting or
electronic or gels. You know, they use the C forty
sevens on the gels for the lighting and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
But anyway, yeah, yeah, no, I was thinking of myself
because I'm C forty seven.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Ah, very nice. It's way better. That's way better. So
like like I'm R twenty four.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, let's plus what well.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Let's that's not good at math. Let's move on. It's
not double anything, I'll tell you that much. What was
another fun moment. So also, you know you were talking
about the scoring right, yes, which was amazing, but not
just that. Also the Folly artists also like, you know,

(43:14):
the sound effects. It was so fun when they're gonna
have their showdown and you hear the obligatory dog barking
in the background. I'm like every single one of these
ever when they stand the two of them twenty paces
apart and you hear the dog barking in the background,
and then you know, like the breeze and the it

(43:34):
was just like everything was so and then and oh
the other thing that was like the obligate. It was
like the obligatory dog barking and the obligatory flipped to
the open to the closed sign and pull the shades
down right. Yeah, like this is so Western, man. It
was so good.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, and Patrick did a fantastic job. I thought of
shooting this one because I did get the full Western
feel there were I didn't feel cheated on any shots.
I felt like they really, you know, gave me a
full Western episode. And some of the interior shots of
the bar were really good that they had one and
where the lighting was coming through the windows, and I

(44:15):
like the way it was kind of submerged with lightings
so shut up to the DP on that shot as well.
But yeah, I thought this was just just phenomenal job
all the way around. Just I enjoyed everybody's performance, including
like we got a barklay naw, which was great, you know, yes,

(44:36):
but but I liked I liked Doctor Crusher's performance, you know,
when she was asking the card to join the play,
you know, and I mean there was just everybody had
their moments. Alexander I thought was very good in this episode.
You know, that's all. I really kind of I like
him when he's not an annoying kid, when he's just
being a regular kid. And I thought he pulled that

(45:00):
off as well in this episode. So you like, I
was telling Robert, when I see in Alexander's in an episode,
I usually kind of deflat a little bit, like, oh,
this is not going to be that good. No, but this.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Told me that when Alexander shows up, you go, Ryan, Yeah,
Like there's only like one or two episodes Alexander.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
And you know, while there's like thirty Yeah, no, this was.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
This was a much better one. And I thought this
funny Wharf looked better as a father. It was just
like an all around good Star Trek episode. This was
all around good.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
I agree, it was. It was overall fun. Data got
to show off, you know, his skills Troy was great.
I actually really liked her a lot. And also it's
important to give these characters something else because we all know,
you know it, it's it's going to be an argued opinion,

(46:03):
but I think most of us feel that generally speaking,
they kind of failed Troy, as in, they didn't do
her justice. They set up a great character in episode
one where we're like, wow, I can really see where
her character is important, where it goes. This is the

(46:24):
first episode. I get it, I know where she fits,
I know how the stories will work. And then they
added Guynan, who was a secondary listener, not that big
of a deal. Then they started giving psychic intuitions to
Beverly Crusher, like in Cause and Effect or when there's

(46:46):
somebody that needs to be leaded around that's Beverly Crusher
or someone else. And then suddenly you're just like, well,
what the heck does she do? And then when she
would get something, it would be her saying, oh, my
powers don't work with fill in the blame. Oh they're
too far away, they're out of my brain. Ranger, there
was always some and then at this point you're like, boy,

(47:06):
you like created a Superman where everything on the planet
is kryptonite, basically, right, And in this episode, it was
great because none of that mattered. She was just she
wasn't counselor Troy. She was just Diana Troy on a

(47:27):
mission with her friend Wharf and his kid Alexander. And
so she could just be herself and not herself in
the role that she's put in on the ship, but
just herself in a new role. And that was gave
her an opportunity to just be a person, to just
do her thing. And she was a great addition. She
looked great, she seemed like she felt great, Like she

(47:50):
seemed like she was comfortable and happy and you know,
really kind of feeling the moment. And I just thought
it was it was a good gift to somebody that
wasn't getting a lot of gifts in the first five seasons.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah. Well, first of all, she looks super hot in
this western, so I didn't notice it. Yeah, and then also,
you know, I think I think she may even have
some frustrations with how her character is written, and it
feels too reserved in some manners to you know, it's
just like she almost plays it like or the way

(48:27):
they write it, it's just very not much. They don't
give her much, and it's and it's it's very small,
and it's also reserved. So she's always mindful of her
actions and listening and listening and trying to you know,
and it doesn't allow her to be letting loose and

(48:47):
see her her playful side. We always see her kind
of work side, so she's always a counselor even when
she's at ten forward for example, you know, it's just
and so she's never really getting a chance is to
just let loose and and play and be playful. And
the most playful episodes she gets here when her mom's

(49:09):
in town and it's Luauxana doing all the playing and
her doing all the cleanup. So yeah, it's not it's
not literally, it's not her being able to be herself.
And we get to see her what what what she
likes and what her what she would consider an adventure.
So I did love her performance in this. I thought
she got to be a little bit looser, a little

(49:30):
bit more playful, you know what. The one of my
favorite you mentioned laughing. One line that made me laugh
probably the most was when Picard says, uh, you know,
doctor Crusher says, well, you know, please, I like it
not being the play, you know, and he's like, well,
you know, anyways, not much of an actor, and.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
She says it's just two lines, he'll be great, and.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Then he hits offended, like two lines, you know, like
you can see that. He's like, I'm an actor. I
would only get too much. So it's funny, but that
whole I'm not much of an actor, like that's that's
that's that's definitely a funny line, you know, the irony
in that.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yeah, it was great. However, we are already time up
against it too. Do the home run of the episode
everybody Today's home run of the episode of Fist Full
of Data is what say you, sir rock Lofton.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, you know, I I'm gonna say that that it's
really impossible for me not to give it to Brent Spiner,
because you know, he does you know, he does all
the work, he plays all the characters. But and he's
just so fantastic, So I mean, it's it's it's Brnce Spiner,

(50:53):
it's data. He's just too good on the show. It's
almost like I keep calling his name out and I
feel bad that I not giving it to other people,
especially when they have great episodes, like Marina Sertis did,
like Michael Dorn did you know it's but it's just
he's so good and they always give him the meat
of them, you know, of the plate, so he gets

(51:15):
the big part of the entree. So and he chews
it up and does a great job. So I would
say Brent Spiner gets the home run with an honorary
mentioned for Robert Hewett Wolf for writing this episode and
coming up with this idea.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Absolutely, I'm going to echo your sentiments there on both
counts and I will see you. I will see those
and I will raise you. The entire sound department because
there were so much things in there added in the edit,
you know, the folly, the scoring, the just the sound overall,

(51:54):
which is tough, and exterior shoots. I didn't notice any
obvious eighty you know, adr always happens and sometimes you're
just like, oh god, it's so obvious. So yeah, all
around sound apartment nailed it. Great job was done by all.
Speaking of great jobs, these guys are all great at

(52:15):
their jobs. Presumably their names are doctor Anne, Marie Siegel,
Eve England out in Wales, Yvette Blackman, Tom T. J. Jackson,
bay Out Missouri, Titus Mohler, doctor Mohammed Nora and Neil
Oh Palatte, Joe Balceadi Might Goo, doctor Stephanie Baker, Carrie Schwent,
Faith Howel V Matt Boardman, Chris McGee, Jake Barrett, Henry Hunger, Allison.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Leech Hide, Julie.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Manosfi, Jed Thompson, doctor Susan V. Gruner, Glenn Iverson, Dave Gregory,
Chris Sternett, Greg k Wistrom, Cassandra g chuck A, Chris Garris,
and of course Jason m Oakin. We will be right
back with the Free for All see in a minute
on the seventh through. It more like a second Well,

(53:02):
hi there, everybody, Welcome back to the seventh Rule. With
sarrock lofton this is the Free for All, with Melissa
Longo wearing a shirt of the director for today's episode
in a cool background. Wow, that is a fun one.
Alison Leech Hides wearing a western type shirt that looks cool.

(53:23):
Chris Garris is here, He's got his He's in Deadwood.
Looks like Carrie Schwent also looks like Aka Crafty Bear
also looks like she's in Deadwood. It looks like where
is it? Oh nope, don't tell us. Oh I don't

(53:43):
get it, but we'll find out. I'm sure soon enough.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
T J.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Jackson Bay is out in Missouri. He's also played by
Brent Spiner. Chuck A has his Prune Juice and Chill
shirt in honor of Wharf and Chris McGee is my
shirt match and Buddy. We're both wearing our YEP Deep
Space nine family shirts with sirac right in the middle

(54:11):
and yellows all right. Jake Cisco guesses the IMDb score.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Hey, who you called? Then yellow? You know it's appropriate? Yeah?
I got this right around at nine. It's just below
so I'd probably give it like an eight point eight.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Does anybody else have any guesses that doesn't already know
what the score is on IMDb?

Speaker 8 (54:47):
I'm going to give it an eight point two eight five?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Wow, Chris, you're supposed to be my twin, all right?
All bets are in everybody. Would you believe it if
I told you seven point four?

Speaker 3 (55:13):
You know if you switch that around, it's forty seven.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Seven? Yeah. We got a non appearance mentioned for Barkley, right,
did we have any others? What's the other one? Melissa piece.

Speaker 9 (55:26):
Ian Troy.

Speaker 10 (55:30):
Baxana Deanna Troy said that she enjoyed westerns with her father.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Oh Ian Troy right cool his name, Yeah, I think so? Yeah, yeah,
good one.

Speaker 11 (55:45):
Uh named her ball of Light baby.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
I don't even know. Yeah. Uh, Chris McGee, did we
have any some kinds of her, some sorts of for
the first time in a while.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
All right, Well, Melissa, please get a start off on
the right track with letting us know what you thought
of this particular episode with that cool background.

Speaker 9 (56:13):
I love this background.

Speaker 10 (56:15):
I thought it was a pretty fun episode. I have
to say that it's probably my favorite Alexander Wharf episode
so far. Oh, Alexander Wharf episode so far.

Speaker 9 (56:34):
I thought it was pretty funny.

Speaker 10 (56:35):
I laughed out loud for several lines in this episode,
particularly the one by Eli where he says, were you
born that ugly? Or did your mama Maren Armadilla? It's
so funny, And then when Counselor Troy says it's Rangco

(57:01):
and then Wharf says Counselor Durango, and then when he
says there's a lot of fun lines in this one,
and then when he says Warf says.

Speaker 9 (57:14):
I'm beginning to see why you like this program.

Speaker 12 (57:19):
Yes, so good.

Speaker 10 (57:22):
I enjoyed it because I think it was a growth
moment for both Alexander and uh Wharf, and especially Wharf
in his parenting, even though he was forced into it,
but then he was like, oh, but this is actually

(57:43):
kind of fun, so let's do more of this. And
I also like that Counselor Troy is kind of WARF's
co parent, and I like that that there's no romance
involved in that co parenting. It just highlights that there's

(58:04):
so many different kinds of families in this world.

Speaker 9 (58:07):
They look so different, come in all shapes and sizes,
and I really enjoy that because I think that she
adds a dynamic to Alexander and Wharf's relationship that is
very much needed.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
That's a great point, great group, Thank you very much,
Melissa at Flongo. All right, Alison Leech hide with the
cool shirt, what if you got for us? What do
you think of this one?

Speaker 13 (58:38):
It's a fun episode, you know, it's a Holidack gone wrong.
We are on location in a Western set, which is
always fun when we get to see our characters play
somewhere that they're not usually and you know, they get
to be in costume and you know, it's a lot
of fun. And you know, little Alexander in his little

(59:00):
western outfit that matches his dad is probably the cutest
thing that we have seen in a very long time
on the next generation.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
So I do.

Speaker 14 (59:08):
I love that.

Speaker 13 (59:09):
I also really enjoy getting to see Data and Jordie's
relationship also in this one, you know, with you know,
we're gonna try him being the backup computer, and like
they've been talking about this and they know they're going
to be doing nothing, so let's give it a try,
and of course it goes wrong. But I thought it
was a great way to like just show that they

(59:31):
hang out and talk about stuff like all the time
and have crazy engineering ideas together.

Speaker 9 (59:37):
So I enjoy that.

Speaker 13 (59:39):
Also love the bit about hey, are you growing a beard?
I thought that was cute, a bit of it'll be
better later once it like fills in.

Speaker 9 (59:49):
And I think my second favorite scene has to.

Speaker 13 (59:51):
Be the opening scene of everyone coming to the captain
because like, hey, can.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
I do this?

Speaker 9 (59:56):
Can I do this?

Speaker 12 (59:56):
Can I do this?

Speaker 13 (59:57):
We're doing nothing?

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Can I?

Speaker 13 (59:58):
He just wants to play his flute and he is
so annoyed, So I thought, I thought a great job
of directing that and acting in it. That's gotta be
weird to direct yourself. It's your scene. So I thought
he did a great job.

Speaker 9 (01:00:13):
And yeah, it's.

Speaker 12 (01:00:14):
It's a ton of fun.

Speaker 13 (01:00:16):
My one nitpick is that, you know, Counselor Troy's outfit
is way too tight to do anything comfortable in a
Western situation, Like you can't ride.

Speaker 9 (01:00:25):
A horse in those pants. I'm sorry, that's not that's
not going to happen.

Speaker 13 (01:00:30):
But you know, that was just more powerful the course
of the nineties and her costumes all the time, intel
very soon when she gets to be, you know, in
her regular uniform. But that's my only nitpick. I love
this episode. I will watch it every time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
No skipping. Mm hmmm, great stuff, Thank you very much,
Alison Leech hides Strock. We didn't even talk about that
opening scene, which was hysterical. That was so good.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I'm sure we wore or we didn't talk about riding
a horse in those pants.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, I didn't even think of that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
I don't think that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I don't think that they even considered if that she
would ride a horse. I don't think that's what they're
thinking about. Carrie Schwent aka Crafty Bear. What's up? What
do you think of this one?

Speaker 12 (01:01:13):
Yeah, just just like Rascals the last time, this episode
is just still lightful from begin beginning to end. Porpora
Card getting more and more frustrated every single time. As
dark times he's getting you could see his level of
frustration just absolutely rising. I love any anything, but I

(01:01:33):
don't I've never really watched really a lot of the
like older Westerns, but I do enjoy that Western genre.
Case in point, the image behind me doctor doctor Mike's
clinic from Doctor coinn Medicine Woman Colora Springs. You got
that in that same sort of time period. One of
the background extras actually, when I was looking everybody up

(01:01:56):
as I do, there was a back named.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Shoot wrote where Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:02:04):
He was one of the saloon gamblers and in the
saloon just in the background guy. He was in the
first eight episodes of Doctor Quinn Menasuoman, including the pilot
which features are our own clone Meani that he was.
He played us Jake the barber. Before the rest of

(01:02:26):
the series got going, and several of the initial roles
from the pilot were recast, including including call Meani's, which
was for the best because he had the Space nine
and you know Star Trek to go do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
So I'm okay with.

Speaker 12 (01:02:42):
Even though he is kind of adorable in it. But
of course I can't miss an opportunity to shout out,
doctor doctor Quinn, Yeah we're we're from Alexander, way too cute.
I also love how adorable he looks in his Alexander
looks in his in his little outfit with a little
this little hat. I love every single piece of Dana's

(01:03:05):
outfit from the they had down down down, her boots all,
all of that looked fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
That looked great.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
I love.

Speaker 12 (01:03:14):
I love a good good coat. Sorry, brain brains a
bit fuzzy this time around, so I didn't do it
as much of my usual no notes as I usually do.
But one thing came up when they were talking. When
they were talking about all the other things going going
going on around the ship, indeed of working in the

(01:03:35):
casual I reckon it'll take yeah laugh out loud lines.
But when they were mentioned that the replicators were on
several of the decks were producing nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
But cat food.

Speaker 12 (01:03:51):
How many how many people when when they got cat
food out of their replicator? How many people do we
think actually may have maybe tried the cat food before
after they said, oh what the heck is this?

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
I mean, I.

Speaker 12 (01:04:03):
Had to have been at least one well wharf was
busy on the hold. Those of us who have cats
know that struggle of picking the right food that your
cat is actually going to eat when you want them
to eat it, not when they want want and person

(01:04:24):
jumping up on the on the desk when poor Data
is trying to work, steting the cat back down. Baboos
you have harment, I mean, just just delightful. Yeah, Prin Spinders,
absolutely fantastic. You could tell how much fun he was
having and everything, every single one of those everythingle one

(01:04:47):
of the rolls that he pops up. And but I
think my favorite is how the voice he does as
the Eli, the the one in the in the in
the cell, with the that particular voice, how he does it.
And so that's where inspired the limerick. And I'm going
to do my best to attempt Data. I'll Eli's voice

(01:05:10):
from that when I when I read the following to
you guys, here we go stitting here, cooling my heels
in this cell, Let me out or I'm gonna raise hell.
Just wait till my paw gets here, you'll learn the
meaning of fear. Now keep your word and all will
be well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Nice. Thank you very much, Carrie Schwent aka Crafty Bear.
Oh did you tell us why Colorado Springs in your background?
Because I didn't don't know.

Speaker 12 (01:05:43):
That's that's where doctor Quinn Medicine Woman is set is
in Colorado Springs.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Got it? Okay, Thank you very much, Carrie Schwent. All right,
Chris Garris is here. He's hanging out with Warf and Alexander.
What do you think of this one?

Speaker 15 (01:05:57):
So this is actually one of the good Wharf and
Alexander episodes that you don't want to skip. But you know,
he well, first of if I'd like to know, was
everybody lined up outside the card store becaus it was
like one right after the other, like, oh where are
you going? I'm going to see the captain?

Speaker 8 (01:06:16):
Where are you going? Oh my god? And then of course,
but it gets the Wharf. He's just like what but
I did? Like again, you know, you know, of course they.

Speaker 15 (01:06:25):
Still have to keep the trope of Wharf not really
wanting to be a parent, because he does. He is
trying to do everything he can to not to take
the time off he's like, let me do this, mister Wharf,
you have the time, just take off, and you see
it when he walks back into his corners.

Speaker 8 (01:06:46):
It's faith. He's like, he said, we can do it,
and he's.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Just so up.

Speaker 15 (01:06:52):
I'd say he's just upset about it. But then when
they do finally get into the holiday program, he actually
he gets happy because he's.

Speaker 8 (01:07:01):
Like, oh, we're law officers, We're officers of the law.

Speaker 15 (01:07:04):
And then they start getting into when they arrest Eli,
he wants to know is there a trial and execution?
Like he went straight to like almost execution. He's ready
to just get rid of him.

Speaker 8 (01:07:15):
You know.

Speaker 15 (01:07:16):
One thing I would love to ask Brent Spiner was like,
what was it like to play all those different roles
in one episode? Because, I mean, he had to have
a fun But man, that's also a lot of work,
I would say, I mean, not being an actor, but
you got to try to prepare for all those and
give a little nuance to every one of them and
not make them just all the same. And I loved

(01:07:40):
us at the beginning when when they're getting into the
program and they're walking around.

Speaker 8 (01:07:45):
And Wharf looks up and sees the I don't know.

Speaker 15 (01:07:50):
I'm just gonna say the lady of the night up
on the balcony and and he looks at Alexander, you
wrote this program, Well, mister.

Speaker 8 (01:08:00):
Barkley Hill.

Speaker 15 (01:08:03):
I just got It's like, oh, Barkley's gonna get a
talking to when this is all over. And so overall,
it's as everybody else kind of said, this is one
of those few Wharf Alexander episodes that is not He
just doesn't have those cringe moment.

Speaker 8 (01:08:19):
Except the very beginning.

Speaker 15 (01:08:20):
But then I like how at the end, honestly he's like, hey,
can he actually he's actually willing to go and do
it again, which.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
That says a whole.

Speaker 15 (01:08:31):
Lot for Wharf, Like I think, I'm not sure it's
blister house and made a comment he actually had growth
in this episode, so.

Speaker 8 (01:08:39):
That's a plus.

Speaker 15 (01:08:41):
And the last thing I'm going to say is Strange
New Worlds is correct. The holid decks are still broken
and dangerous because even what one hundred years later, the
damn safety still don't work and it just takes one
little bug to throw it a whole damn thing off.

(01:09:01):
So again, this was actually a decent episode, So I
will definitely just not a Skipper.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Right, thank you very much, Chris Garris hanging out in Deadwood.
That's right, the Skipper was the director this time, all right,
thank you. TJ. Jackson Bay also played by Brent Spiner.
What'd you think of this one?

Speaker 11 (01:09:24):
Oh man?

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
I enjoyed this episode a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:09:29):
I think it takes Star Trek back to its roots
because it was originally put it forth as the Wagon
Train to the Stars, and it was supposed to be
like a Western in space, and so they go to
the West. Unfortunately, I think as the years go by,
people will forget that and be like, why is this here?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
But I enjoy it.

Speaker 11 (01:09:51):
I also enjoyed watching WARF's journey from the beginning to
the end and seeing his character.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Grow a little.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
I wonder if it'll hold.

Speaker 11 (01:10:01):
But also I think it was really pretty cowardly of
him to try to get out of going to the
holiday by trying to work, instead of just either telling
his son no, I don't want to do that, or
just doing it, I mean, just give it a chance

(01:10:22):
or something. But to try to slink out of it
by by trying to trick the card into making him
work and saying, oh sorry, I can't do it Captain
Wants has done. That's that's kind of a coward move
for a klingon. So come on, wharf, do better.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
You know.

Speaker 11 (01:10:43):
One of the funny things to me was when you know,
when the byre lady was, you know, coming down to
wharf and then it's like, well, what what is it?
Is that floozy from Miss Langston's house. I thought that
was a uh, that was pretty funny. I also thought
it was funny that in one of the scenes outside

(01:11:06):
of the holiday, with pressure and riking and trying to
do the play one, Riker's delivery of the poem it
was just you know, hilarious because like he doesn't break,
He's like, these are the lines. I'm gonna give it
my best. Also fun watching actors act like their actors,

(01:11:28):
so that was pretty interesting as well. And it was
interesting that he remembered the point since in the recitation
he was sleep, he was too sleep to remember, but
somehow he does, so I thought that was interesting. I
also appreciated the data Jordan moments. Allison mentioned that you know,

(01:11:52):
I think back, you know, from a few episodes ago,
when you know the fact that they kind of you know,
sit around and just come up with engineering stuff is
what saved the ship in this case, it's what got
the ship in trouble.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
But that's all right too.

Speaker 11 (01:12:10):
I thought it was funny that that Wharf was frustrated
with Counselor Troy because he expects her, because they're all
playing the same game, to just be on his side
all the time. But no, she's fully into the character
and she's like, I don't have to go along with
everything that you say.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
We're in here to have funs.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
But he's like, you need to support me on this.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
She's like, no, that was pretty funny.

Speaker 11 (01:12:42):
Lastly, again, I think Brent Spiner was wonderful in this episode,
been playing all the different roles and as someone mentioned,
giving them all a little bit of nuance, you know,
really stretching his legs.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
He's a great actor.

Speaker 11 (01:12:58):
He's that funny in person smithf you get to interact
with him, I encourage you to do so. And also
the last funny scene for me was one of the
last scenes in the episode with Wharf in the mirror,
you know, playing a finger gun like yah. You know.

(01:13:18):
So that's the end of the journey for me because
he goes from you know, being this kind of coward
klingon trying to sling out.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
Of it and work and be old boring.

Speaker 11 (01:13:29):
No Wharf to like this was like he's a legit
having fun and that's something that we don't often see
Wharf get to do.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
So I enjoyed that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Yeah, that was adorable and I was so glad to
see him at the end doing that final yeah, fixing
his hat. Great stuff. Thank you very much to t J.
Jackson Bay also played by Brent Spiner Chuck a a
k A. T n G fanatic. What do you think
of this one? Did you love it?

Speaker 6 (01:14:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
I really really liked this episode, and I'm so glad
that the free for All safeguards are functioning. Otherwise, I
really like Chris Garrison's background. So I jumped off and
got my Alexander. They were sold in a two pack

(01:14:24):
similar to the rom and Nog two pack. It's a
mini Alexander's a mini figure.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
A couple of things, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:14:39):
The other thing, I believe that the voice that Brent
was using, you know, for the Hollander Eli Hollander, was
the same voice that he used in Night Court for
Bob Wheeler. I'm pretty sure it's the same.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
He Brent said in interviews that he used to be
him and his friend used to uh do like many plays,
and he said that's where hedeveloped that voice. So he
used it in night Court, and I'm glad to see
it he used it in this episode. I really liked
the the you know, brand playing all the characters, and

(01:15:17):
I'd love Wharf's expression at the end when when a
Brand comes down as Miss Annie and he's trying to
get the program to end. Uh, he wasn't happy seeing that.
Excuse me? And uh uh. One other thing that I

(01:15:37):
enjoyed too, wash all the little on the ship when uh,
when data was malfunctioning and was doing the uh the
western voice you know with spitting into this platoon pretending
to spit into s platoon. That was hilarious, and uh,

(01:15:59):
you know, all the lead ups to the Holo Deck
where you could see that data was changing because of
the error in the program. Just a wonderful episode. I
really think it was, if not the best Holow Deck
episode that they made.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
Wow. H praise, thank you very much. Chuck a a
ka TNNG fanatic. All right, Chris McGee also played by
Brent Spiner, all right, dark Lord what do you think
of this one?

Speaker 16 (01:16:37):
Ah, this is such a fun episode in the fine
tradition of Holo deck breaks it becomes dangerous troops. It's
episodes like this one that inspired the recent Star Trek
Strange New World's episode a Space Adventure hour, in which
long deemed Holidick's too risky. Well, it's often as this
trope comes up, I'd say not much has changed since then,

(01:17:00):
and combining that trope with so many spaghetti Western tropes
is also delightful, including the mysterious stranger, the shootout in
the saloon, heck, the title itself being an homage to
one of the most well known spaghetti westerns, of This
Fool of Dollars, and even the final shot of the
episode is the Enterprise riding off into the sunset. Every

(01:17:24):
time I watch this episode, of course, which takes place
in the town of Deadwood, I'm reminded that I still
need to watch the TV show of the same name.
As as far as one of my favorite actors, Ian
McShane and I life also like how everyone calls the
setting for this holiday adventure the Ancient West. We usually

(01:17:44):
call it the Old West now, but it makes perfect
sense that the descriptor would have changed over time to
ancient by the twenty fourth century.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
A couple of little actor.

Speaker 17 (01:17:58):
Moments here, of course, we get in a great, great callback.
As was mentioned earlier, this time two schisms and Data's
owed to spot Riker's expression when he recognizes the lines
he's about to read is fantastic. And then in that
opening scene where we hear Patrick Stewart say whenever he

(01:18:19):
says that I Am not much of an actor, it always.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Makes absolutely.

Speaker 14 (01:18:25):
Turns that his part would be a minor win. His
look of barely disguised disappointment is perfect. I do have
one prop shout out in this episode.

Speaker 16 (01:18:35):
I love the fact that the back of Alexander's gaming
device was kit bashed together from some old five and
a quarter inch floppy disk drives.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
I hope I'm not.

Speaker 16 (01:18:47):
The only one to here old enough to remember those anyway,
And so we get to of course, my favorite member
will quote there are so many in this episode, but
I'm with Data's line, which is, of course, you just
sit tight. We'll have this all fixed up in time

(01:19:07):
for supper.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
Awesome. Thanks very much, Chris McGee. It also cracked me
up right after that Riker went good Jake's final takes rock.
Any final thoughts on this one.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Yeah, a couple. You know. I wanted to say that
I like the guest actors in this episode. The you know,
the kid who played Eli Hollander I thought was pretty good.
And also the woman who was the barkeeper or whoever
running the that little house there, she was also really good.

(01:19:46):
And I thought she could have also been played by
law Wauxana Troy. I thought law Wauxana Troy would have
also been great in that role. It could have been
Barkley who programmed her to look like that, and she
could have not been Troy's mob, but that would have
definitely irritated Troy more so, that would have had a

(01:20:07):
whole other ramifications. Also, I noticed that they always run
a level two diagnostic, and I'm like, how many levels
of diagnostics are there? And why is level two the
one that you want to go with? Why not the
three or the one or the four? So that's just

(01:20:27):
my own curiosity. Yes, I like the moment where Jordie
and Data we're talking to each other and Jordie says,
you're not just another electronic system and then Jordan and
then Data kind of says well, you're not just another
biological mass or something that like that. And I thought
that was that was just a great moment between the

(01:20:50):
two of them. I enjoyed it a lot. War says,
I do not negotiate with criminals, and that just reminded
me of the you United States policy to not negotiate
with terrorists, and I'm pretty sure that it's borrowed from
that to some degree. Uh let's see what else did

(01:21:12):
I get here? Oh, Halo deck Wharf kicks asks more
than real life warf Wharf used those same skills in
the real life scenario. So I mean, I don't get it.

(01:21:34):
And then, uh Riker boy, Riker is not going to
read any techno back. He's not re memorizing techno babble.
He's reading it all the time. This is now the
second time that I could notice this season where he
was given some difficult technobabble and he's like, I'm not
going to try to memorize it. I'm only going to
read it, and that's it. So he just he just

(01:21:55):
reads it and he's not even going to attempt to
do what. I love our burden and Brent Spider doing
a regular basis, so that's how good it is to
do that. Just for the record. And let's see, I
think my last point was, oh yeah, computer and program

(01:22:19):
that you know, it either works or doesn't it. You know,
we need a fail safe, a fail safe switch for
that one. You know, it can't just be computer end
program because it's got to be like, you know, some
override code or something just in case. Yeah, something like

(01:22:42):
one of those break glasses in case of emergency switches
or something.

Speaker 5 (01:22:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
But so yeah, we've seen computer end program not always
work for us. So that's another final take right there.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Great stuff. Thanks, thank you, Sarak, thank you everybody at home,
and uh, we're going to do the things left unsaid
segment right after this for everybody that's a Patreon member
otherwise go to patreon dot com slash the seventh rule,
joining the fun. Thanks very much, Chris McGee, Chuck A. TJ. Jackson, Bay,
Chris Garris, Carrie Schwent, Allison Leech, Hied, Melissa Longo for myself,

(01:23:22):
Sirac Melissa and that was a weird face Melissa, Uh,
and mister Aaron Eisenberg, thank you all very much for
hanging out with us. We will see you next time
and until then, always remember the seventh rule. Partner

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Western | With Robert Hewitt Wolfe | TNG 6.8 "A Fistful of Datas" | T7R #364

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The Brothers Ortiz

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Western | With Robert Hewitt Wolfe | TNG 6.8 "A Fistful of Datas" | T7R #364