February 7, 2025 • 25 mins
Zach Bryant from They Live By Film joins to talk about Osgood Perkins, who has one film with A24 -- The Blackcoat's Daughter. He has since achieved acclaim thanks to Longlegs and has an upcoming film called The Monkey that looks to be yet another breakthrough in his career. We get into his other films, and also Bryan Bertino's The Monster, which Perkins produced.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
All right, welcome to episode three of the A twenty
four New Wave. You might hear about another episode three,
that is episode five. You'll see I'm talking to the people.
They we'll see because Zach Zachary Bryant is hard first,
you're actually our first real guest. I shouldn't say real guest,
(00:30):
like you know, I had Jill on, but the first
person to talk about a movie on this feed. So
do you want to introduce yourself and tell people about
what your sure thing is? What's your thing?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, well, I'm honored for you to have me on
so early. I really appreciate that. So my name is
Zach Bryant. Some of you we have some overlap. Probably
heard me on Dailive by Film. I've showed up on
the Radiance podcast. I've showed up on Reconnected. So if
you've seen any of those, you may recognize my very
very southern voice. We talk about we do a podcast
where we do interviews mostly about like physical media, and
(01:04):
we just talk about a lot of random movies that
we know the other person's going to hate.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
So yeah, I think that sums me up pretty well, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well I've been on actually well for all three of
those that you mentioned, and they're a lot of fun
and I had a great time with you guys on
They Live by Film. So that's Adam Lundy and Chris Uh.
We get Chris his last name high school of course. Yeah,
I knew that Chris don't don't don't Hate, but yeah,
that's more of a laid back friends show, which those
(01:34):
are fun. So I enjoy those. But thank you for
coming on. I kind of knew, but I didn't know
to the extent. You're a massive A twenty four fan,
so you've been a good, I guess a person on
my side with this project. And we've been been chatting
on some Discord servers and having a lot of fun.
So it's it's really exciting for me, and so we
(01:56):
are going to talk about a really exciting and important topic.
Is well, the filmmaker Oz good Perkins. I guess we'll
call him OZ. That's what he goes by, right.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I've seen him credited as both. I think he started
as OZ and then it switched to Oz Goood. I
don't know, so I we've probably interchanged it.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
At this point.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We could call him, mister Perkins.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, not to be used with his.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Father, Yes, definitely not. Well, you know, I think that's
a subject that is worth bringing up, so so oz
good Perkins. So i'll just tee up in the context
of A twenty four and my writing. I have a
chapter about early age twenty four horror, which obviously I'm
not going to get into in that in detail right now,
(02:41):
but I'll just say that it's it's kind of like
not what you'd think if you just think about age
twenty four and Zach, I think you probably would agree
with this, but it kind of started as like a mess,
you know, not really a mess mess, but like you know,
there was did not say Tusk is really arguably the
first age twenty four film, and there's really nothing like
(03:01):
that elsewhere in A twenty four maybe in the world
of films, USC is pretty unique. And then you might say,
like Under the Skin the Witch, I think the Witch
is fair. A lot of people say that's the first war,
but I think when when thinking about the things, I
think of Under the Skin and the Witch as genre
film or i'm sorry, art films, so you know as much.
(03:23):
Maybe there's some toe Hooper inspiration, but there's as much
Tarkovsky or Birdman or somebody else, Oz Perkins, ozmad Perkins.
We'll have to settle on one of those. Is well,
he started with The Monster as a producer, which was
actually filmed prior to his debut, which is The Black
(03:45):
Coat's Daughter. But I want to say, and I could
have this backwards because I wrote this a little while ago,
a couple months ago, but I think that The Monster
came out before this and didn't do that well.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
It was a weird release, if I remember. I think
Direct TV got.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
An exclusive for The Monster, and I don't know if
that was I can kind of see why I like
The Monster for what it is, but Bertino is kind
of it acquired taste sometimes, so I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Know if they knew what to do with it either.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, and that's that's just the case with Early Age
twenty four is and that the book goes into this.
They did have a deal with Direct TV, and they
were primarily, absolutely primarily at this point an acquisition company,
so they're going to fit festivals and chase these films,
and they didn't get a lot that they wanted. Tusk
(04:37):
was one of those that they went after pretty aggressively
and it was a big acquisition. But Bertino, if you
haven't seen The Strangers, I mean, that's for sure his
big hit, I think, even to today, even though he's
made a few others, but he mixes like social issues
with his horror, and I think the Monster if you.
I mean, I don't really put my opinion too strongly
(04:59):
in the book, just because I'm writing more about the
history and the stories about the filmmakers and the productions.
But I kind of don't like The Monster. I think
it it just doesn't live up to the ambition. Really,
you know. It's kind of like Luck in that it's
all set in the car, but and some stuff happens,
(05:20):
but they interweave the social and the character moments, which
I've seen done well. But yeah, the Monster's not what
I'm crazy about. I think it's done a lot better
with the relationship and The Strangers.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I think the one thing he did well on The
Strangers is and I think he tried to I'm speculating,
but I think in parts he tried to recreate that.
You don't really see the horror that much like in
the Strangers. It's so much background horror. You know, you
talk about like John Carpenter's Halloween. It's you're always looking
in the background for something else, and I think he
(05:55):
wanted to recreate that with the monster. But the problem
with creature features is got to see the monster in
these in the matter, and I think, forwards.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The end of my memory, you do.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
But I don't know if the build up a little yeah,
I don't know if the build up pays it off necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And you know, I'm not so I'm going to bring
up Clorofield Like Clorofield, I'm not the biggest clor Refield fan,
but they they did a good job of teasing the monster.
And of course you go back way way back to
the Og Monster movie as Jaws. I'm the og Blockbuster
monster movie and we know that. But yeah, I think
(06:31):
I see where he was going. I think it was
an ambitious I don't want to say failure because I
just you know, it was a successful movie. It's on
a twenty four. A lot of people saw it, not
as many people saw The Strangers, but it did give
oz go to Perkins a chance to direct, and well
kind of a stepping stone to directing. You're just being involved.
(06:52):
So yeah, so he his first is The Black Coat's Daughter.
This is his first, a twenty four first and only
a twenty five film, and I think this was twenty sixteen,
and I think this actually is a good a good
entry point to his work. Now most people probably the
entry point is Long Legs, which just came out, But
(07:15):
I think I fell in love with The Black Coat's
Daughter at first watch, which was just like about six
months ago. I was like, this is the vibe that
I really love. So I put it on my horror list,
which I know you've seen, and yeah, so I can't
wait to write more about it. And kind of, of
course I don't want to. I don't want to spoil it,
(07:36):
and I won't spoil it in the book, but in
this case, I really really want to because it's so
good you can't you almost can't unpack it without spoilers.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
So can I ask?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
What was your first exposure to Ozgoode? And was it
this or was it something else?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
It was Black Coat's Daughter. I think the first time
I saw it was on Netflix, back when they had
a better horror catalog, so they had they'd always have
things like that. Just randomly watched it didn't watch a trailer,
and I really did. I fell in love with then.
I've had very I'm a big fan of Osgod Perkins
for you know, all four of his movies to a degree.
(08:15):
The middle ones I have more issues with. But I
think he's such an interesting director that I'm never mad
to watch something even if I don't love it. But
Black Coat's definitely a great one. That's it's one I've enjoyed.
I think I enjoyed rewatching it more than I did
the first time.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
H Yeah. And that's why it's hard to talk about
with that talking on spoilers, because it's kind of like
what but some films don't work on rewatch when when
they have a mystery, and so I without spoil and
I'll just say that there is something that you're gonna miss.
I don't care how much you pay attention, you're gonna
miss it. It's very confusing the first time. You might
not even like it the first time. I think that's
(08:50):
that's happened a lot. And then once you piece things
together or maybe go read letterbox or some other website
and get spoiled and then watch them again, I think
it's I mean, I picked up on it the first time,
but I was very impressed. And one thing I talk
about a lot in the book or a little in
the book is the idea of scream Queen's And of course,
(09:13):
I think for modern horror, I think the conversation begins
and ends with Mia Goth, so that'll of course be
in the ty West chapter, but I think the case
can be made for actually both leads Emma Roberts and
Kieran and Shipka as well. So I don't know, does
that hold water to you? And you can tell me
no if you want no.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I completely agree, especially I think I'm going to mispronounce
rams Shipka.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Is that how you say it? I think so?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Kieran and Shika, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, she's one.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I'm always excited when I get to see her in
something because I feel like she just I don't know
if it's just I don't watch enough of what she does,
but when she pops up, I'm always pleasantly surprised. She's
at the beginning of Twisters, and I was so happy
to see her because that was such a big thing
to see her in such small things. So I think
I saw her long legs like months before that, and
I'm like, that's cool, they end up do something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, just those two, well, I guess I wouldn't call
it Twisters a horror. But and I have to look
her up because I'm forgetting her.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
She's at the very beginning, she's yeah, she's not in
a long.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And even though that's the very beginning, I won't spoil
her scene. But her scene, even though I wouldn't call
Twisters a horror, I would say that her scene is
in line with a scream queen tech performance. I think
she's great, even in the very beginning. So I'm just
pulling her up and well read one. I don't know
about that, but Long Legs, I think is the big one.
(10:39):
So before we get to that, So you've mentioned the
middle to Perkins, and I'll be honest, I haven't watched
those yet. I probably will by the time I get
to the end of the book, because I think that
they're all in the conversation of the premise that I'm
writing about, which is a twenty four new wave, and
I think horror is is at the center of that.
Usually when people when you say age twenty four, they think, yeah,
(11:02):
horror for the most part, or Ladybird. So what about
Osgood's middle films, what do you He said, you don't
like him as.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Much, not as much. So.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
The second one was I Am the Pretty Thing that
Lives in the House, which is an obnoxiously long title.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The best way I can just go to describe that film.
And it picks up a lot of things we were
talking about, like with black Coat's daughter, and I'm sure
we'll talk about long legs kind of like this unraveling mystery,
and there's like almost like this world building, like this
small amount of world building that there's more going on
than you're ever going to get the answers for. I
think he does that pretty well in that one as well.
(11:41):
But the problem the first time you watch it is
it is the slowest, sowest movie. It is glacially slow.
It is really just somebody walking around a house. And
the first time I despised it, I hated the movie.
Years later and I think it was like within the
last six months, I finally sat down and said, Okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna rewatch it, say what I think
(12:02):
this time, and I liked it better and I think
it really paid off in the sense that I kind
of went into the mentality of it's almost like when
you read like an old nineteenth century horror novel like
Turn of the Screw or something where it's not scary,
but to that audience it was scary, and it's almost
like he's trying to recreate that, like something ridiculous, like
(12:24):
the person died of a heart attack because of a ghost.
You know, that's stuff that would happen, and those old
novels not very scary nowadays. But yeah, I think that's
more of what he was trying to evoke. And I
think he does that a lot. He tries to evoke
older type horror, which makes sense with his lineage that
he seems to prefer that.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So yeah, that's the big elephant in the room, his lineage.
So his dad is a scream king, I mean, like
you know, kind of the og. I mean, yeah, he
didn't scream, but yeah, he created some screens and screams,
and I think that growing up in that atmosphere, well, yeah,
I get I can see it in his work that
he would like, you know, old old school type of horror,
(13:07):
and I'm thinking more atmospheric. I mean, I think psycho Actually,
you could make an argument for that but I love
your Henry James comparison. I think the innocence is actually
I don't know if you've seen that, but Jack Clayton,
it is, and I think that's actually a good compare,
a classic comparison for the type of vibe that Perkins
pulls off. But Perkins does not seem to be of
(13:29):
the two movies I've seen. He does not seem to
be like recycling things. So he seems to be somewhat original,
but also not like, not exactly like other horror filmmakers.
I don't know, do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I do.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I think he definitely has his influences, and I think
to a degree, he wears his influences on his sleeve.
I think, you know, Long Legs is one that's gonna
be brought up, but you know, sounds of lambs or
cure or something like that. It's going to be the comparison.
But he never I don't think he ever fails to
make the those elements feel himself like. I think one
(14:02):
thing that made Long Legs stand out was the very
beginning saying there's psychic things going on, there's a supernatural
element here. I'm not gonna lie to you about that.
That's that's what's going.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
On, no no bs.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, well yeah, long Legs, I mean Long Legs has
made him one of the top directors. I'd say one
of the top genre directors for sure right now. But
there's one more that we haven't mentioned in that Squadal
and Hansel and and so that's another middle film. I
think it's also with Netflix, Is that right? I think
both Netflix, if I'm.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Maybe, I know, Shall put it out, so I don't
know if it was like.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Permanently with Netflix. I could be wrong. Yeah, I'd have
to look it up. But no, he uh.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
That was one I think came out like either right
before COVID or right after COVID started, so I know
it didn't get quite the attention. I think it was
probably originally going to And honestly, as far as like
the tag wise, it's I think it's his best looking film.
It is a very gorgeous film. I think it's one
(15:06):
of those ones where even at I think the runtime's
on like ninety some minutes and it still feels like
it should probably be like a seventy minute movie. I mean,
there's not a lot to Hansel and Gretel as a
story and he does some like interesting things with it
without going into spoilers, like, you know, it's more about
Gretel than it is about Hansel. It's more about, you know,
the coming of age story of you know, a young
(15:28):
teenage girl. And I think that's an interesting way to
go about it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
It does lose me.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think it just feels a little long, and I
think that every both times I've watched it, I'm like, yeah,
this could this could be cut down a bit.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's what's interesting is I looked at the rankings and
the IMD and really none of his films have really
ranked that high with audiences, so I think, and I
think that's actually just the case with A twenty four
at least, just generally like the acclaim versus the I
just should say the critical acclaim and the I'll say
the cult acclaim, the cult of A twenty four and
(16:03):
the cult of modern genre films. I think we're into it.
But they full a lot of people to get people
in theaters, and and I don't think they would lie
about that. I think that that is very much a thing.
So yeah, I just looked and Gretel and Hansel has
like a four point something on IMDb ratings, so definitely
not a not a big hit at least critically. But yeah,
(16:25):
we got to get to Long Legs. So I have
not finished the late horror chapter. That's gonna be fun.
Let me just tell you, because and I am bringing
in peripheral films. You know, it's it's about a twenty
I mean, the entire eighty ninety percent of the book
is about a twenty four. But I also talk about
the influences, I talk about other films. In fact, I'm
going to have a chapter about like peripheral films that
(16:48):
kind of like a Julia decre Now you know her
films Coyle and Farge. Of course, you know she'd got
the Oscar nominees. Now those aren't very common have much
in common with this. But but I'm sure I'll have
to talk about Long Legs because I think it's a
pretty a pretty big horror. I think it's gonna move
(17:09):
the genre a good bit. So and of course you
have a big actor too, So I'm guessing is your
love for Perkins cemented with Long Legs or are it?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, it is, I mean I put long Legs as
as of right now, it's probably like my favorite film
this decade so far I have.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I had a tremendous love for it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I do, And honestly, a lot of it came down
to your kind of hinting about like a twenty four
and how they market to get people in as far
as Neon did. I think that is some of the
best marketing I've seen for a horror film in a
long time. Like they really pushed like a sense of intrigue,
and I think that's that helped.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I think it did.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Like I mean, I remember they didn't even like name
their trailers like it was a long legs trailer. They
would like put an arg in it and just show
you like a horrific saying and it's like, what is this?
Like that's that's such a neat way to go about it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The funny thing is is it became memes before like
and and that's where you get fomo is you see
these memes and you see the thing is Nick Cage
plays a just a really unique character, even for him.
You know, he's played so many, so many unique eccentric characters,
but this one is on a different level. And yeah,
(18:28):
this is how do I put it? There's a lot
of suspense there's a lot of mystery, and there's a
whole lot of silence of the lambs. So as you
mentioned his influences, I mean I think that one for sure,
he wears on his sleeve, but that doesn't take away
I mean, it's not like a you know, clearly starling
kind of character. But yeah, I think it actually so
(18:51):
of course, might Smalayan has done similar things with his films.
And I'm not saying it's all about the twist. I
think it's more about the right. I think it's more
about the atmosphere and you know, giving the audience a
little bit of information and then you know, because it
holds up on rewatches, which I would say that a
lot of Shimalayan movies do not. So I don't know,
(19:14):
what do you think? How many times have you seen it?
I guess I'll ask.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Let's see, I saw it three times in theaters and
I've seen it two times since then.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, so you've dissected this pretty thoroughly, and you could
write a dissertation tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I might be a well written one, but yeah, I
could write one.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'm sure you could well. So for anybody who has
not seen Long Legs, what would you just say, like,
what would your high pitch or your high level pitch on,
why why I should see this and how how should
you approach this going in?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So I think if if I was going to pitch
this to someone, because I'm looking at this as the
perspective of my girlfriend does not.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Like this movie.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
She has seen it twice, she has tried. I give
her all the benefits in the world, So I don't think.
I don't think it's going to resonate with absolutely everyone.
I think it's a very strange movie. You know, You're
you're looking at into the mind of Perkins and the
things he likes. So there's like some t rex as
artists stuff in there. He obviously likes some some hair
(20:15):
metal type stuff, and I mean all that kind of
gets lined in there, and there's just such an intriguing mystery.
I was a big fan of Lost when it's coming,
I'm still a huge fan of it. And one of
my favorite elements is let's put all these like little
hints in there and not give you direct answers, but
give you something to come away with it.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think there's that level of interpretation about what's going on.
Obviously there's an arg with it, and I think that's
a lot of fun to go through if you want to.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't think it's.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Necessary, but it does add some stuff. But just I
think the good thing with the fun thing with Long
Legs is you can get out of it what you
put into it. And I think a lot of mysteries
kind of miss that. Like, you know, I think an
audience involvement is important.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, now it does really bring the audience in. I
think it's a master work personally. I don't know if
it was you, but if it's somebody else, But somebody
else told me that this was before I was writing
the book, that to decide whether you're going to take
the plunge into Long Legs and really if this is
something for you, and not just go buy the marketing
(21:22):
and you know, but actually be discerning and decide whether
you're going to wait or what. Somebody told me to
watch Black Cod's Daughter first, and I did because I
had missed that, and so so I was very grateful
because I really really took to Black Black Coat's Daughter,
not not as much as Long Legs, but like it
is definitely a great entry point. So and also exit point.
(21:46):
If you don't like Black Coat's daughter, you might not
be into Long Legs. Vice persa might not be true.
But yeah, great. I can't wait to see where he
goes in his career. I mean, he has The Monkey
just about hit theaters, so we'll see hearing great things.
He's just in the William Castle Tricks signing awaiver the audience,
(22:07):
So I love that.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I like, Yeah, I was gonna say, with The Monkey,
one thing I'm actually looking forward to is as big
as Long Legs was. And I'm not going to say
that movie's bleak, but it's definitely got a bit of
a downer element to it. So for him to kind
of switch gears and go to something like Stephen King's
The Monkey, I think is a good call, Like go
to a little absurd like put some show you huber,
(22:32):
because I wouldn't say I don't think his move his
movies are humorless, but the humor is, yeah, kind of dry.
Like one of my favorite gags and Long Legs, which
is I don't even know if you call it a gag.
Instead of telling you what year it is, they just
show you a picture of a president, Like even in
people's homes or here's Richard Nixon and I'm like, that's
just it's a funny gag, but it's not gonna make
(22:52):
you laugh.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
It's just be like, what is this?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
It's better than a time, than a car, you know,
a placard. But uh but yeah, I know. I think
I think we'll see what happens with the monkey, but
I think this is going to be a bit another
big step in his career and h and yeah, it's
another big step from modern horror. So Zach, great conversation. Uh,
I'm kind of glad that he's our first horror Yeah,
(23:16):
I mean technically because we got the sap das, we
have David Lowry and then we'll be talking about Alex
Garland next. So uh so yeah, I do you want
to tell people where to find you online?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, you can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts
for they live by film. If you want to look
at my bad takes, I just had a terrible take
that I think Aaron hated with Fanny and Alexander. If
you want to read those, you can find me at
Dorma Bombs, which is a lost reference. So you know,
I got to bring that full circle.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, I've wondered and you just had to say lost
and I got it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
But yeah, you find us there, and of course I'm
not I'm on them sometimes, but are My co hosts
are also on Punk Vacation, which is a vinditver syndrom,
and Adam runs the official Radiance podcast.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I think we can say official on that one. The
other one, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, I think yeah, yeah, Frands been on it so
it counts and I.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Was just on it, so yeah, it's a great podcast.
But yeah, we'll put the links down in the notes,
and yeah, thanks for hanging.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Out, Thanks for having me, Ariam.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
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Speaker 2 (00:08):
All right, welcome to episode three of the A twenty
four New Wave. You might hear about another episode three,
that is episode five. You'll see I'm talking to the people.
They we'll see because Zach Zachary Bryant is hard first,
you're actually our first real guest. I shouldn't say real guest,
(00:30):
like you know, I had Jill on, but the first
person to talk about a movie on this feed. So
do you want to introduce yourself and tell people about
what your sure thing is? What's your thing?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah, well, I'm honored for you to have me on
so early. I really appreciate that. So my name is
Zach Bryant. Some of you we have some overlap. Probably
heard me on Dailive by Film. I've showed up on
the Radiance podcast. I've showed up on Reconnected. So if
you've seen any of those, you may recognize my very
very southern voice. We talk about we do a podcast
where we do interviews mostly about like physical media, and
(01:04):
we just talk about a lot of random movies that
we know the other person's going to hate.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
So yeah, I think that sums me up pretty well, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well I've been on actually well for all three of
those that you mentioned, and they're a lot of fun
and I had a great time with you guys on
They Live by Film. So that's Adam Lundy and Chris Uh.
We get Chris his last name high school of course. Yeah,
I knew that Chris don't don't don't Hate, but yeah,
that's more of a laid back friends show, which those
(01:34):
are fun. So I enjoy those. But thank you for
coming on. I kind of knew, but I didn't know
to the extent. You're a massive A twenty four fan,
so you've been a good, I guess a person on
my side with this project. And we've been been chatting
on some Discord servers and having a lot of fun.
So it's it's really exciting for me, and so we
(01:56):
are going to talk about a really exciting and important topic.
Is well, the filmmaker Oz good Perkins. I guess we'll
call him OZ. That's what he goes by, right.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I've seen him credited as both. I think he started
as OZ and then it switched to Oz Goood. I
don't know, so I we've probably interchanged it.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
At this point.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
We could call him, mister Perkins.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, not to be used with his.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Father, Yes, definitely not. Well, you know, I think that's
a subject that is worth bringing up, so so oz
good Perkins. So i'll just tee up in the context
of A twenty four and my writing. I have a
chapter about early age twenty four horror, which obviously I'm
not going to get into in that in detail right now,
(02:41):
but I'll just say that it's it's kind of like
not what you'd think if you just think about age
twenty four and Zach, I think you probably would agree
with this, but it kind of started as like a mess,
you know, not really a mess mess, but like you know,
there was did not say Tusk is really arguably the
first age twenty four film, and there's really nothing like
(03:01):
that elsewhere in A twenty four maybe in the world
of films, USC is pretty unique. And then you might say,
like Under the Skin the Witch, I think the Witch
is fair. A lot of people say that's the first war,
but I think when when thinking about the things, I
think of Under the Skin and the Witch as genre
film or i'm sorry, art films, so you know as much.
(03:23):
Maybe there's some toe Hooper inspiration, but there's as much
Tarkovsky or Birdman or somebody else, Oz Perkins, ozmad Perkins.
We'll have to settle on one of those. Is well,
he started with The Monster as a producer, which was
actually filmed prior to his debut, which is The Black
(03:45):
Coat's Daughter. But I want to say, and I could
have this backwards because I wrote this a little while ago,
a couple months ago, but I think that The Monster
came out before this and didn't do that well.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
It was a weird release, if I remember. I think
Direct TV got.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
An exclusive for The Monster, and I don't know if
that was I can kind of see why I like
The Monster for what it is, but Bertino is kind
of it acquired taste sometimes, so I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Know if they knew what to do with it either.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, and that's that's just the case with Early Age
twenty four is and that the book goes into this.
They did have a deal with Direct TV, and they
were primarily, absolutely primarily at this point an acquisition company,
so they're going to fit festivals and chase these films,
and they didn't get a lot that they wanted. Tusk
(04:37):
was one of those that they went after pretty aggressively
and it was a big acquisition. But Bertino, if you
haven't seen The Strangers, I mean, that's for sure his
big hit, I think, even to today, even though he's
made a few others, but he mixes like social issues
with his horror, and I think the Monster if you.
I mean, I don't really put my opinion too strongly
(04:59):
in the book, just because I'm writing more about the
history and the stories about the filmmakers and the productions.
But I kind of don't like The Monster. I think
it it just doesn't live up to the ambition. Really,
you know. It's kind of like Luck in that it's
all set in the car, but and some stuff happens,
(05:20):
but they interweave the social and the character moments, which
I've seen done well. But yeah, the Monster's not what
I'm crazy about. I think it's done a lot better
with the relationship and The Strangers.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
I think the one thing he did well on The
Strangers is and I think he tried to I'm speculating,
but I think in parts he tried to recreate that.
You don't really see the horror that much like in
the Strangers. It's so much background horror. You know, you
talk about like John Carpenter's Halloween. It's you're always looking
in the background for something else, and I think he
(05:55):
wanted to recreate that with the monster. But the problem
with creature features is got to see the monster in
these in the matter, and I think, forwards.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
The end of my memory, you do.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
But I don't know if the build up a little yeah,
I don't know if the build up pays it off necessarily.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And you know, I'm not so I'm going to bring
up Clorofield Like Clorofield, I'm not the biggest clor Refield fan,
but they they did a good job of teasing the monster.
And of course you go back way way back to
the Og Monster movie as Jaws. I'm the og Blockbuster
monster movie and we know that. But yeah, I think
(06:31):
I see where he was going. I think it was
an ambitious I don't want to say failure because I
just you know, it was a successful movie. It's on
a twenty four. A lot of people saw it, not
as many people saw The Strangers, but it did give
oz go to Perkins a chance to direct, and well
kind of a stepping stone to directing. You're just being involved.
(06:52):
So yeah, so he his first is The Black Coat's Daughter.
This is his first, a twenty four first and only
a twenty five film, and I think this was twenty sixteen,
and I think this actually is a good a good
entry point to his work. Now most people probably the
entry point is Long Legs, which just came out, But
(07:15):
I think I fell in love with The Black Coat's
Daughter at first watch, which was just like about six
months ago. I was like, this is the vibe that
I really love. So I put it on my horror list,
which I know you've seen, and yeah, so I can't
wait to write more about it. And kind of, of
course I don't want to. I don't want to spoil it,
(07:36):
and I won't spoil it in the book, but in
this case, I really really want to because it's so
good you can't you almost can't unpack it without spoilers.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
So can I ask?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
What was your first exposure to Ozgoode? And was it
this or was it something else?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
It was Black Coat's Daughter. I think the first time
I saw it was on Netflix, back when they had
a better horror catalog, so they had they'd always have
things like that. Just randomly watched it didn't watch a trailer,
and I really did. I fell in love with then.
I've had very I'm a big fan of Osgod Perkins
for you know, all four of his movies to a degree.
(08:15):
The middle ones I have more issues with. But I
think he's such an interesting director that I'm never mad
to watch something even if I don't love it. But
Black Coat's definitely a great one. That's it's one I've enjoyed.
I think I enjoyed rewatching it more than I did
the first time.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
H Yeah. And that's why it's hard to talk about
with that talking on spoilers, because it's kind of like
what but some films don't work on rewatch when when
they have a mystery, and so I without spoil and
I'll just say that there is something that you're gonna miss.
I don't care how much you pay attention, you're gonna
miss it. It's very confusing the first time. You might
not even like it the first time. I think that's
(08:50):
that's happened a lot. And then once you piece things
together or maybe go read letterbox or some other website
and get spoiled and then watch them again, I think
it's I mean, I picked up on it the first time,
but I was very impressed. And one thing I talk
about a lot in the book or a little in
the book is the idea of scream Queen's And of course,
(09:13):
I think for modern horror, I think the conversation begins
and ends with Mia Goth, so that'll of course be
in the ty West chapter, but I think the case
can be made for actually both leads Emma Roberts and
Kieran and Shipka as well. So I don't know, does
that hold water to you? And you can tell me
no if you want no.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
I completely agree, especially I think I'm going to mispronounce
rams Shipka.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Is that how you say it? I think so?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Kieran and Shika, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Yeah, she's one.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I'm always excited when I get to see her in
something because I feel like she just I don't know
if it's just I don't watch enough of what she does,
but when she pops up, I'm always pleasantly surprised. She's
at the beginning of Twisters, and I was so happy
to see her because that was such a big thing
to see her in such small things. So I think
I saw her long legs like months before that, and
I'm like, that's cool, they end up do something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, just those two, well, I guess I wouldn't call
it Twisters a horror. But and I have to look
her up because I'm forgetting her.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
She's at the very beginning, she's yeah, she's not in
a long.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And even though that's the very beginning, I won't spoil
her scene. But her scene, even though I wouldn't call
Twisters a horror, I would say that her scene is
in line with a scream queen tech performance. I think
she's great, even in the very beginning. So I'm just
pulling her up and well read one. I don't know
about that, but Long Legs, I think is the big one.
(10:39):
So before we get to that, So you've mentioned the
middle to Perkins, and I'll be honest, I haven't watched
those yet. I probably will by the time I get
to the end of the book, because I think that
they're all in the conversation of the premise that I'm
writing about, which is a twenty four new wave, and
I think horror is is at the center of that.
Usually when people when you say age twenty four, they think, yeah,
(11:02):
horror for the most part, or Ladybird. So what about
Osgood's middle films, what do you He said, you don't
like him as.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Much, not as much. So.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
The second one was I Am the Pretty Thing that
Lives in the House, which is an obnoxiously long title.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
But.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
The best way I can just go to describe that film.
And it picks up a lot of things we were
talking about, like with black Coat's daughter, and I'm sure
we'll talk about long legs kind of like this unraveling mystery,
and there's like almost like this world building, like this
small amount of world building that there's more going on
than you're ever going to get the answers for. I
think he does that pretty well in that one as well.
(11:41):
But the problem the first time you watch it is
it is the slowest, sowest movie. It is glacially slow.
It is really just somebody walking around a house. And
the first time I despised it, I hated the movie.
Years later and I think it was like within the
last six months, I finally sat down and said, Okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna rewatch it, say what I think
(12:02):
this time, and I liked it better and I think
it really paid off in the sense that I kind
of went into the mentality of it's almost like when
you read like an old nineteenth century horror novel like
Turn of the Screw or something where it's not scary,
but to that audience it was scary, and it's almost
like he's trying to recreate that, like something ridiculous, like
(12:24):
the person died of a heart attack because of a ghost.
You know, that's stuff that would happen, and those old
novels not very scary nowadays. But yeah, I think that's
more of what he was trying to evoke. And I
think he does that a lot. He tries to evoke
older type horror, which makes sense with his lineage that
he seems to prefer that.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So yeah, that's the big elephant in the room, his lineage.
So his dad is a scream king, I mean, like
you know, kind of the og. I mean, yeah, he
didn't scream, but yeah, he created some screens and screams,
and I think that growing up in that atmosphere, well, yeah,
I get I can see it in his work that
he would like, you know, old old school type of horror,
(13:07):
and I'm thinking more atmospheric. I mean, I think psycho Actually,
you could make an argument for that but I love
your Henry James comparison. I think the innocence is actually
I don't know if you've seen that, but Jack Clayton,
it is, and I think that's actually a good compare,
a classic comparison for the type of vibe that Perkins
pulls off. But Perkins does not seem to be of
(13:29):
the two movies I've seen. He does not seem to
be like recycling things. So he seems to be somewhat original,
but also not like, not exactly like other horror filmmakers.
I don't know, do you agree with that?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I do.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I think he definitely has his influences, and I think
to a degree, he wears his influences on his sleeve.
I think, you know, Long Legs is one that's gonna
be brought up, but you know, sounds of lambs or
cure or something like that. It's going to be the comparison.
But he never I don't think he ever fails to
make the those elements feel himself like. I think one
(14:02):
thing that made Long Legs stand out was the very
beginning saying there's psychic things going on, there's a supernatural
element here. I'm not gonna lie to you about that.
That's that's what's going.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
On, no no bs.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, well yeah, long Legs, I mean Long Legs has
made him one of the top directors. I'd say one
of the top genre directors for sure right now. But
there's one more that we haven't mentioned in that Squadal
and Hansel and and so that's another middle film. I
think it's also with Netflix, Is that right? I think
both Netflix, if I'm.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Maybe, I know, Shall put it out, so I don't
know if it was like.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Permanently with Netflix. I could be wrong. Yeah, I'd have
to look it up. But no, he uh.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
That was one I think came out like either right
before COVID or right after COVID started, so I know
it didn't get quite the attention. I think it was
probably originally going to And honestly, as far as like
the tag wise, it's I think it's his best looking film.
It is a very gorgeous film. I think it's one
(15:06):
of those ones where even at I think the runtime's
on like ninety some minutes and it still feels like
it should probably be like a seventy minute movie. I mean,
there's not a lot to Hansel and Gretel as a
story and he does some like interesting things with it
without going into spoilers, like, you know, it's more about
Gretel than it is about Hansel. It's more about, you know,
the coming of age story of you know, a young
(15:28):
teenage girl. And I think that's an interesting way to
go about it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
It does lose me.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
I think it just feels a little long, and I
think that every both times I've watched it, I'm like, yeah,
this could this could be cut down a bit.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
That's what's interesting is I looked at the rankings and
the IMD and really none of his films have really
ranked that high with audiences, so I think, and I
think that's actually just the case with A twenty four
at least, just generally like the acclaim versus the I
just should say the critical acclaim and the I'll say
the cult acclaim, the cult of A twenty four and
(16:03):
the cult of modern genre films. I think we're into it.
But they full a lot of people to get people
in theaters, and and I don't think they would lie
about that. I think that that is very much a thing.
So yeah, I just looked and Gretel and Hansel has
like a four point something on IMDb ratings, so definitely
not a not a big hit at least critically. But yeah,
(16:25):
we got to get to Long Legs. So I have
not finished the late horror chapter. That's gonna be fun.
Let me just tell you, because and I am bringing
in peripheral films. You know, it's it's about a twenty
I mean, the entire eighty ninety percent of the book
is about a twenty four. But I also talk about
the influences, I talk about other films. In fact, I'm
going to have a chapter about like peripheral films that
(16:48):
kind of like a Julia decre Now you know her
films Coyle and Farge. Of course, you know she'd got
the Oscar nominees. Now those aren't very common have much
in common with this. But but I'm sure I'll have
to talk about Long Legs because I think it's a
pretty a pretty big horror. I think it's gonna move
(17:09):
the genre a good bit. So and of course you
have a big actor too, So I'm guessing is your
love for Perkins cemented with Long Legs or are it?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, it is, I mean I put long Legs as
as of right now, it's probably like my favorite film
this decade so far I have.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I had a tremendous love for it.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
I do, And honestly, a lot of it came down
to your kind of hinting about like a twenty four
and how they market to get people in as far
as Neon did. I think that is some of the
best marketing I've seen for a horror film in a
long time. Like they really pushed like a sense of intrigue,
and I think that's that helped.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I think it did.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Like I mean, I remember they didn't even like name
their trailers like it was a long legs trailer. They
would like put an arg in it and just show
you like a horrific saying and it's like, what is this?
Like that's that's such a neat way to go about it.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The funny thing is is it became memes before like
and and that's where you get fomo is you see
these memes and you see the thing is Nick Cage
plays a just a really unique character, even for him.
You know, he's played so many, so many unique eccentric characters,
but this one is on a different level. And yeah,
(18:28):
this is how do I put it? There's a lot
of suspense there's a lot of mystery, and there's a
whole lot of silence of the lambs. So as you
mentioned his influences, I mean I think that one for sure,
he wears on his sleeve, but that doesn't take away
I mean, it's not like a you know, clearly starling
kind of character. But yeah, I think it actually so
(18:51):
of course, might Smalayan has done similar things with his films.
And I'm not saying it's all about the twist. I
think it's more about the right. I think it's more
about the atmosphere and you know, giving the audience a
little bit of information and then you know, because it
holds up on rewatches, which I would say that a
lot of Shimalayan movies do not. So I don't know,
(19:14):
what do you think? How many times have you seen it?
I guess I'll ask.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Let's see, I saw it three times in theaters and
I've seen it two times since then.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, so you've dissected this pretty thoroughly, and you could
write a dissertation tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I might be a well written one, but yeah, I
could write one.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I'm sure you could well. So for anybody who has
not seen Long Legs, what would you just say, like,
what would your high pitch or your high level pitch on,
why why I should see this and how how should
you approach this going in?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
That's a good question.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
So I think if if I was going to pitch
this to someone, because I'm looking at this as the
perspective of my girlfriend does not.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Like this movie.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
She has seen it twice, she has tried. I give
her all the benefits in the world, So I don't think.
I don't think it's going to resonate with absolutely everyone.
I think it's a very strange movie. You know, You're
you're looking at into the mind of Perkins and the
things he likes. So there's like some t rex as
artists stuff in there. He obviously likes some some hair
(20:15):
metal type stuff, and I mean all that kind of
gets lined in there, and there's just such an intriguing mystery.
I was a big fan of Lost when it's coming,
I'm still a huge fan of it. And one of
my favorite elements is let's put all these like little
hints in there and not give you direct answers, but
give you something to come away with it.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I think there's that level of interpretation about what's going on.
Obviously there's an arg with it, and I think that's
a lot of fun to go through if you want to.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
I don't think it's.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Necessary, but it does add some stuff. But just I
think the good thing with the fun thing with Long
Legs is you can get out of it what you
put into it. And I think a lot of mysteries
kind of miss that. Like, you know, I think an
audience involvement is important.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, now it does really bring the audience in. I
think it's a master work personally. I don't know if
it was you, but if it's somebody else, But somebody
else told me that this was before I was writing
the book, that to decide whether you're going to take
the plunge into Long Legs and really if this is
something for you, and not just go buy the marketing
(21:22):
and you know, but actually be discerning and decide whether
you're going to wait or what. Somebody told me to
watch Black Cod's Daughter first, and I did because I
had missed that, and so so I was very grateful
because I really really took to Black Black Coat's Daughter,
not not as much as Long Legs, but like it
is definitely a great entry point. So and also exit point.
(21:46):
If you don't like Black Coat's daughter, you might not
be into Long Legs. Vice persa might not be true.
But yeah, great. I can't wait to see where he
goes in his career. I mean, he has The Monkey
just about hit theaters, so we'll see hearing great things.
He's just in the William Castle Tricks signing awaiver the audience,
(22:07):
So I love that.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I think.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
I like, Yeah, I was gonna say, with The Monkey,
one thing I'm actually looking forward to is as big
as Long Legs was. And I'm not going to say
that movie's bleak, but it's definitely got a bit of
a downer element to it. So for him to kind
of switch gears and go to something like Stephen King's
The Monkey, I think is a good call, Like go
to a little absurd like put some show you huber,
(22:32):
because I wouldn't say I don't think his move his
movies are humorless, but the humor is, yeah, kind of dry.
Like one of my favorite gags and Long Legs, which
is I don't even know if you call it a gag.
Instead of telling you what year it is, they just
show you a picture of a president, Like even in
people's homes or here's Richard Nixon and I'm like, that's
just it's a funny gag, but it's not gonna make
(22:52):
you laugh.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
It's just be like, what is this?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
It's better than a time, than a car, you know,
a placard. But uh but yeah, I know. I think
I think we'll see what happens with the monkey, but
I think this is going to be a bit another
big step in his career and h and yeah, it's
another big step from modern horror. So Zach, great conversation. Uh,
I'm kind of glad that he's our first horror Yeah,
(23:16):
I mean technically because we got the sap das, we
have David Lowry and then we'll be talking about Alex
Garland next. So uh so yeah, I do you want
to tell people where to find you online?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, you can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts
for they live by film. If you want to look
at my bad takes, I just had a terrible take
that I think Aaron hated with Fanny and Alexander. If
you want to read those, you can find me at
Dorma Bombs, which is a lost reference. So you know,
I got to bring that full circle.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Yeah, I've wondered and you just had to say lost
and I got it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
But yeah, you find us there, and of course I'm
not I'm on them sometimes, but are My co hosts
are also on Punk Vacation, which is a vinditver syndrom,
and Adam runs the official Radiance podcast.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I think we can say official on that one. The
other one, yeah, but.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah, I think yeah, yeah, Frands been on it so
it counts and I.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Was just on it, so yeah, it's a great podcast.
But yeah, we'll put the links down in the notes,
and yeah, thanks for hanging.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Out, Thanks for having me, Ariam.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Are you a film fan who loves the ultimate home
video experience, look no further than the Discconnected. Your host,
Ryan Verel, is your go to source for the latest
and most accurate information on home video releases, exclusive interviews
with industry insiders and filmmakers, and has established a thriving
community where every film and physical media enthusiast feels welcome.
(24:47):
From hidden gems to Blockbuster hits, the Discconnected brings you
insider knowledge and a welcoming space to share your love
of cinema. Watch every Thursday night at nine thirty Eastern
six thirty Pacific for the live announcements show, and follow
The Disconnected on social media to stay updated. Subscribe to
The Disconnected on YouTube or on the podcast provider of
(25:09):
your choice, and dive into a world where every movie
night is an adventure.
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