February 8, 2025 • 27 mins
Description:
Becky D'Anna joins to talk about Alex Garland, and specifically the films that have been released by A24 -- Ex Machina, Men, and Civil War. We talk about the sense of dread that he creates and how he's such an excellent writer. Becky compares his work to Ingmar Bergman. He uses sound and photography to accomplish this, and there are parallels to Hour of the Wolf, Shame, and others.
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Becky D'Anna joins to talk about Alex Garland, and specifically the films that have been released by A24 -- Ex Machina, Men, and Civil War. We talk about the sense of dread that he creates and how he's such an excellent writer. Becky compares his work to Ingmar Bergman. He uses sound and photography to accomplish this, and there are parallels to Hour of the Wolf, Shame, and others.
Links:
- Video of this episode
- The A24 New Wave Kickstarter
- Becky's Website
- Becky's Letterboxd
- Becky's BlueSky
- Becky's Twitter/X
Follow Us:
Cinejourneys - YouTube Channel | Facebook Page | Facebook Group | Instagram | Letterboxd | BlueSky | Threads
Jill Blake - BlueSky
Aaron West - BlueSky | Letterboxd
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are now listening to the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He my old friend. Well we're not old our friendship
it's been a long time, so it's great to see you.
It's really thrilled to have you. So, everybody, Becky Deana,
we are going to talk about Alex Garland. I know
you're a big fan. But before we do, I want
(00:29):
you to tell this group of people. I don't know if
it's the same group as other podcasts we've done, but
who is Becky? Introduce yourself if you don't mind.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh my gosh, who was beck Who is Becky? Who
is Becky? I'm Becky Deanna do movie marketing at Sony Pictures,
but I'm not speaking on behalf of them. Really, I'm
just a movie fanatic on the side. For god fifteen
years or well twenty years or so, I've been writing
top ten lists which are now on my movie website,
(01:00):
Beckydanna dot com. But in my spare time I like
to talk about movies and podcasts about movies. My favorite
filmmaker in the world, which is anyone that knows me online,
is Igmar Bergman. I call myself an Igmar Bergman disciple
because he's like my god. But I actually taught a
six hour Bergman lecture at UC Riverside in California a
(01:24):
few years ago. I'm interested in doing another class again.
And yeah, I talk a lot about I've been on
several podcasts, including yours, Aaron, talking about Bergmann. I'm also
a massive Albert Brooks fan, so I've been on your
show talking about him as well. And i love Star
Trek and science fiction, and I'm one of those people
that I haven't just I'm interested in so many different genres,
(01:47):
so art house films and big budget films, foreign films,
every type of film. So I've just I absolutely love
movies and I love talking about them and in my
day day job market them.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So yeah, that's a great connection. And that's a great
segue too with the science fiction, because well, that's the
thing is your interests are kind of all over the place,
but they're very focused. You're very very you're very targeted
and who you ex so't I wouldn't hear Bergmann Star
Trek T two, But oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
When you talk about Terminator two, Yes, so that's another
reason Terminator two, Yeah, I forgot, Yes, Terminator two is
my favorite film of all time to show you my
my very interest in films. I yeah, I love all
types of films, but yeah, Terminator two Change my life
is what the movie that made me fall in love
with movies. I've never seen a movie that I think
will ever surpass it. It's a masterpiece and I will
(02:42):
fight you to the death if you say otherwise. But
I usually it's not a film that's debatable. I think
everyone agrees that it's OK. It's extraordinary, it's well regarded.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But you wouldn't think of like T two and winter
Light as a double feature.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
But no, don't. You wouldn't put them in together as
a double feature. No, but winter Lights in my top ten.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So it's a pretty special film, but very totally, extremely different.
But we're here today to talk a little bit about
Alex Garland, who I'm thrilled that you're such a big
fan of his, because so I've been writing this book
which you know about, and I've spent you know, several
months writing and as you know, I'm going kind of
a tour by our tour but also talking about the history.
(03:22):
So it's about a twenty four Obviously, if you're looking
at this, you can see a twenty four new wave
and about how these young filmmakers, you know, kind of
got their chances. So I think Garland is really an
interesting character, character figure because he had he was a writer.
I mean he has been. He came into the industry
(03:43):
as a writer and actually achieved a lot of success
as a writer. You know, kind of a little hit
and miss, but you know, still the twenty eight Days Later,
I think franchise that stands on its own. But the
thing is a twenty four took chances with directors and
he is one of them. And what I like about
Garland and why I found him so interesting to write about,
(04:04):
is he really loves to talk about his work. And
you know there's some well so I you know, not
to bring us down, but we just lost David Lynch,
you know, that's very tough. But he did not like
to talk about his work. Some people are just like, hey, audience,
you go figure it out. Whereas Garland, he writes about
he writes really interesting stories that are our think pieces.
(04:26):
I think they challenge you, make you make you think.
It's something that you have to unpack after seeing it
in the theater. Especially some well one especially of the
movies we're about to talk about, but really all of them.
But he you know, he'll do amas and he'll do
videos and interviews. He just all over the place and
he's really proud of what he does. So so anyway, again,
(04:48):
I'm thrilled that you want to talk about Alex Garland,
and we'll stick because this is not a long show.
We'll stick to the A twenty four films, so that
the ex Makana huge film for them, Men, weird film,
and then Civil War. So I'll start with do you
have a favorite of that group or if you want
(05:08):
to choose Annihilation or Devs, that's fair too.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
No, those three are probably my three favorite. I mean,
he doesn't not like he as like, you know, extensive
filmmography or anything, but I would say those three are
my favorite of his all of his films that at
A twenty four films, X Mockin is my favorite. I
would say Men's probably my second, and then third is
(05:31):
Civil War. I civil War could surpass Men at some point.
It's funny because all three of them. So I write
a top ten list every year, but doing it for
twenty years X Mockin and made my Favorite Film of
the Year list in twenty Let's see, it was it
twenty fifteen that came out, and yeah it was number one,
and then it was then I did the Best of
(05:52):
the Decade list for twenty ten to twenty nineteen, and
it made number five on my Best Decade list. Wow,
actually it was behind two A twenty four films. Number
three of my Best of the Decade list was ghost Story.
A Ghost Story, which is the twenty four film and
number four on my Best of the Decade list was
(06:13):
first reformed, so it went it was right, So three
A twenty four films made my top five for my
decade list. But then and then Men was in twenty
two and it made number four on my top ten list,
and Civil War made number seven on my top ten
list this year, so it's the lowest ranked of my
(06:33):
top ten, but it all three made my top ten,
and I'm this was a very strong year, I think,
so that's probably why Civil War was a little bit lower.
But I Alex Garland, I just think I even mentioned
in my when I did in my little review of
Men on my top ten list, I said that he
was rapidly becoming one of our greatest living filmmakers. And
(06:54):
then I just cemented it with this year. This year,
when I talked about Civil War, I actually just listed
him as one of our greatest living filmmakers. I just
think he's talented.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, and he's such a great writer too, And that's
what I love about writer directors is they they can
write their material and then and they don't have to
worry about somebody else in interpreting that material. So so
obviously X'm not gonna massive film. I don't like it
as much as you, but I really like it. So
really that's a pretty high bar, you know, number five
of the year. I mean, I think it's an excellent film.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I think, yeah, because there's number one of them. It
came out for me, yeah right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right, yeah, yeah, so it's it's in the in the mix.
I haven't really done a decade list, but but it's
definitely for the purpose of a twenty four I don't
can't recall. I think it was their first Oscar because
play visual effects.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, yeah, and then he was nominated for screenplay too,
but he didn't he was.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, he was, I have to it. Also, Amy also
won Best Documentary, so I don't know which award was
first in the telecast I'm not going to research to
that degree. It's not that important, but he's in the
mix in that first and I do remember writing about
the Oscar Year, but I think that it's actually a
huge deal that it won Best Visual Effects for the budget,
(08:12):
and he really does make the most out of little
budgets micro budgets. So yeah, as much as you know,
we could really dissect x Monk in all of these
films to the umpteenth degree, I want to ask about Men,
because what I've found after watching Men and digging into
it a little bit. First off, I love it, but
(08:35):
I found that it's very divisive and I haven't figured
out why I love the So the conceit is that
we have one actor playing numerous roles. It's set in
basically one location in one town. It kind of reminds
me of Sleuth nineteen seventy two, even though I didn't
write about that, but I just just thought of it. So,
but you obviously love Men the movie, but.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then to not the movie.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes that's not the topic of this podcast, but noted,
but what is it about the movie Men? Like I
have to qualify that what so given them that it's
just divisive and that a lot. So I'm going to
compare the Men with the Substance because it goes a
(09:22):
little crazy. I think that's why it's divisive. So Becky,
why why do you love it?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
After the Substance, maybe people will actually revisit it and
be like, what are you talking about? This was not
even close to in the same universe as the Substance.
In regards to the gore factor, I thought Men was
breathtaking and it was absolutely gorgeous cinematography. Jesse Buckley gave
a stunning performance. Yes, I just think the one thing
about Alex Scarland throughout those these three A twenty four
(09:52):
films and just in general that I just love about
him and he doesn't in this movie is he is
able to just create sense of dread unlike really any
other filmmaker at you know. Currently, I've compared him, and
this is a big comparison and I've done it online
twice now, is to Igmar Bergmann. I'm obsessed with Ingmar Bergman.
(10:15):
He's my favorite filmmaker. Like I said, I feel like
there is a direct nod to Bergmann in Men. I
think I compared him to just Bergman in general, but
one of one of the nods, and specific specifically with
Men is there's a great scene in Hour of the Wolf.
I don't know how many of these, Yes, yes, it's
(10:36):
Igmar Bergmann's horror film, but there's this. There's a few
scenes an Hour of the Wolf where if you just
tell somebody what happens, they'll be like, well, how is
that scary? But if you watch them, it's so scary,
it's viscerally scary. So there's a specific scene at Hour
of the Wolf not really give anything way where leave
Olmen and Max Foncito are in their house and leave
(10:58):
Omen turns to him and said, there's somebody out the door,
and then he's like, oh, don't get it, and then
all of a sudden you hear the door unlocking, and
that terrified. Definitely, it still because the fact of like,
oh my god, someone's actually opening the door. And there's
a scene in Men where that is happening, where there
the door's locked and then all of a sudden the
door's unlocking, and it's just it was I feel like
it's a direct nod Hour of the Wolf. I don't
(11:19):
know if Alex Garland did that on purpose or what,
but I saw it right away. It had the same
sense of dread. One of the other things about Men
is I saw it. I saw it when in the
theater opening night. It was sort of earlier in the day,
and there was I was. There was me and one other,
one other, two of the people in the whole theater,
and they're like three rows up for me. It was
a couple. I was by myself. Like rose Back, there's
(11:41):
a scene where Jesse Buckley is, here's noises outside, and
it's just like it's just the way Alice Carland uses sound,
it shadows and things. It is terrifying. And there's a
scene where she goes outside to her doorstep and I
literally was. My hands were in the air when I
was in the theater by myself, and I cannot remember.
(12:04):
It's been a long time since I was that scared
in a movie theater. And he did that for me,
and he does that one of the things. Just to
go back Ex Machina, for instance, there was a period
of ex Machina which I've never experienced in my whole
life in a movie before, which is crazy. Well, I
think it's one of the best. It's not only the
one of the best sci fi films, of the decade
(12:25):
of that decade. I think it's one of the best
sci fi films of all time. Is there is you know,
this character Donald Gleeson goes it gets to have when's
this opportunity to be with you know, the CEO's company
hang out with him for the weekend. This is a
really award he gets. And as the movie goes, he
starts to question himself because he learns about AI and robots,
(12:48):
and there's a period in the movie where he starts
to think, am I robot? Am I real? And a
no joke no joke in the movie. When I was
watching it, I actually started questioning it by own humanity.
You're thinking to myself, Wait a minute, it's possible, Like
what if your memories and everything you see around you
(13:11):
wasn't real? What if you found out that you were
a robot and you cause it like and all of
a sudden, like who you think is around you is
just like not real and it's just programs And and
that was like a crazy thing that I actually personally
thought while watching the movie, Am I real? And I
have never in my whole life had had a movie
(13:33):
question had me question my own humanity, And that was
just like, that's how much is writing his seeps into
all those films. The sense of dread, the sense of questioning.
That's the other thing is like ingmar Bergmann also is
just explores humanity in such a great way in the
human condition. I think Alex Garland through science fiction, through
these films like Men, helps you, like see like Men
(13:55):
really explores trauma and grief in a really beautiful like way,
but like really very terrifying way too. And I think
the end A lot of people can debate the end,
but I really do see it as like a masculine
thing of like men just become beget men, just beget men,
and that as is, and then just it's like men,
men men, and they just reburths more men. And then
(14:15):
every time that you get it becomes more messed up,
and and every time you try to fix themselves. I
think it's a you know, definitely, you know it's it's
it's not a great look for men. I don't want
to sometimes men like, oh, this movie is about trauma.
They don't want to think that it's actually about like
(14:36):
being the masculine an indictment on being a man. But
as a woman, it was a had a real effect
on me. And I get that it's divisive because it's
pretty gross the ending, but I mean, let's let's be honest,
Like you said, nowhere in the same universe as a
substance Jesus, that movie goes for broke. So now I
don't I think it's pretty tame. But anyway, just as
like a through line these films, he is able through
(14:59):
he's an exceptional writer. And also how he views the
cinematography men, just in a general every frame is gorgeous.
It really is cinematography. And then the cinematography and Civil
War two and the sense of dread he fills in
those films. I cannot think of just of another filmmaker.
He just understands the human condition. He's able to conjure dread.
(15:21):
He's able to ask Becky Diata, she questioned, if she's
a robot watching a movie, like.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
If Alex Garland actually watches this podcast or this video,
he'll probably be very very happy. And I'm glad I
didn't bring my notes and everything in in that chapter,
although I'm going to send you that chapter when it's
when it's edited and all that. It's pretty close actually,
But he I think he takes to light in kind
of tantalizing people and exploring these really weird themes. And
(15:52):
if you look at like so speaking of science fiction,
if you look at his influences, he loves books. Obviously,
any writer loves books, but he loves those old, you know,
nerdy science fiction books. And I don't mean nerdy in
a bad way. I mean just yeah. But but I
want to go after your your touching on Bergmann. And
I know we don't have all the time in the world,
but I really think you you are hitting a nail
(16:12):
on the head because in really all of his films. Yeah, yeah,
people think of Bergmann is an art director, artistic director,
and yeah, there are very you know, you're going to
contemplate existence. You're probably not gonna wonder if you're a robot.
That wasn't what Bergmann was about. But but but he
did create. Even in his like more subtle movies, he
(16:34):
was really good with tone and really eliciting an emotion
and a reaction. And and that's the sense of dread.
I mean, depending on the theme, it could be a
sense of calm and maybe some one of his fifties
movies and that sort of thing. But with with Garbland,
I think he's very intentional about peacemealing the story, the
plot with these cinematic elements, the score, of course, the visuals.
(16:57):
And then I think X Makina is a great example
as well as a great example and also Civil War,
but X Makina threw Donald Gleeson and the scenes with
I'm trying to remember the robot. I just eva with
those scenes when it turns when the power shuts down
and it turns to red, and so you have this
(17:17):
visual I guess reality of what he's going through, that
sense of dread. It's in your face, like it's permeating slowly,
and then all of a sudden boom. He is in
this world with this ai and he is trying to
make sense of everything. So and then with Men, i'd say, like,
(17:38):
for example, the scene where she's at the church and
you think of this as a peaceful place, a place
of solace, and then things just don't feel right, and
the further she gets I'm not going to spoil I
do recommend people watch Men because I think it is special,
but it's very very scary.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's very yeah, it's scary, and the thing is I
think it's just not like a traditional horror film. But yeah,
there are some scary films. When she there's there's she
thinks there's something around her and then you see like
a vision, you see something in the window. And the
way the lights. He is able to use sound, he
heightens sound. He's just images. He just just little things
and dialogue like Civil War. That that blistering scene where
(18:23):
Jesse Pleman says, what kind of American are you? Just
very silent and it's just it's it's so it's like
a bone chilling scene. And he's able. He is able
to cast the right actors the right and use the
right tone and the sound and the way actors are
are blocked. Everything about. He's just a phenomenal verson writer
(18:44):
but director. And that's why I think and well, I
compared him to Bergmann in Civil War, more so on
the criticism he was getting, because after the Civil War
was released, a lot of people said that he was,
you know, taking taking as non assigning blame to any party.
But just I wanted to remind people and I said,
I had a tweet about it. Yeah, that Bergmann wrote
(19:06):
shame and he also was criticized before not assigning blame
to any party. But what they both did was they
without glorification, was presenting war that wars chaos and it's
confusing and devastating and it's all of that, and uh,
it's he was more like going off on war. But
what's also he was criticized for too, which is that
(19:28):
that people would say, well, why was why is Texas
in California? They would never team up? That doesn't make
any sense, And that was this And then Alex Garland,
because I love the fact that he does interviews. I
think it's great. He actually mentioned he said that it
was really powerful because he was saying, there is this
fascist president that these two people who are so opposed
politically would actually team up in a fight against his
(19:52):
fascist president who is killing citizen press on site, killing
killing their own citizens, you know, eliminating the term limits.
Like that these people who are such opposed politically, like
Texas California would team up in a fight. That's pretty
powerful stuff. And I think some people didn't look beyond that.
They were just like, that's fiction, that would never happen.
(20:12):
But I love that he sometimes articulates this is why
this is where I came from. It is nice too,
when directors like David Lynch and say it's up to you,
and Paul Tom Sanderson does too. But I like how
he talks about his work openly. But I wanted to
just send out a tweet about that movie to remind
people that, hey, you know, Igmar Bergen was also criticized
for how because it was during the Vietnam War and
he didn't but he wanted to present wars like this
(20:34):
is how Visceral War is. So I think he's just
such a talented phenomenal. Like I said, I do really
true believe he's one of our greatest living filmmakers, and
I hope he continues to Like I love his writing
is exceptional, but his directing is also just like a
real Marvel. And I just think he's such a talent
and I really do hope he continues to do both.
(20:55):
But I'm here for all of it. I'm such a
stand on Alex stan And I.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Think The Civil War will really pay off on repeat
viewings too, because it does have that sense of dread,
and the scene you mentioned, I think is really a culmination.
So that's when some things happened and you see some
things that you were wondering about. So yeah, again, I'm
glad I didn't bring my notes because we would be
talking about this for hours and let's do this again.
So he has a new movie coming out, Warfare. I
(21:23):
think is I think it's coming out in May. If
I'm not mistaken, I forget the train.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I think there is a date. I don't know
what the date is. Actually, that movie came out of nowhere.
I didn't because I had done so many interviews of like, oh,
I'm not directing it, and all of a sudden, but he's
teaming up with Ray Mendoso, who was a military supervisor
for Civil War, and they broke and directed it together.
So I think it was just an opportunity of another project,
(21:48):
that this guy had his own story and they worked
together on it. But it really seemed a surprise to
me because I thought we weren't getting any more Alex
Garland directed films. But I'm I'm here for it. I'm
here for whatever you've got to say. Yeah, Alex Scarland, and.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
He's and it looks like zero dark or not, kind
of the hurt Lock Talker Zero Dark thirty, So we'll see.
But yeah, no, I was literally writing about Alex Garland,
and I was like, oh, he might be retired now,
who knows a good thing. I waited and then all
of a sudden, there's a trailer. Okay, yeah, well I
think I'm here for it too.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. Maybe not directing, but he wanted to go back
to just writing. And you know, a lot of people
don't know he wrote The Beach, the book The Beach
and when he was twenty eight years old, and it
became Danny Boyle turned it into a film a few
years later, but he actually wrote that book as he
was like a superstar author with The Beach, and he's
he's just like a prodigy in a way too. Of
(22:43):
just like his writing is amazing, and I mean the
fact that out of the gate his directorial debut was
Ex Machina, and I consider it one of the best
sci fi films, like in history. I just think everything
that at least he does, I'm just so I can't
for it. I'm floored by everything. His writing is really
(23:04):
just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I hate to say that a debut is mature, but wow, yeah,
so yeah, lots we can talk about with Alex Garland.
I can't wait for you all to read what I
wrote about him in the book because he's a fascinating guy.
And I thank you Alex Garland for writing or writing
so much and talking so much, because it gives me
plenty to mole through. But yeah, I'm looking forward to
(23:31):
the new movie, and I might even get to include
the new movie in the book. We'll see about the timing,
you know. Of course, obviously I have to get a
chance to watch it, and I'm sure he'll do plenty
of interviews. But he's not out of the game. I
know he's writing twenty eight years later, and so that'll
probably be out.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, that's Sony Movies to go see that. It's June twenty.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Five.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And then there's a sequel already on the books for
January sixteen, twenty six, that's twenty eight years later, The
Bone Temple. He is writing both of those. It's a
big deal that he's reteeming with Danny Boyle. I just
literally jumped out of my skin when I found out
that we were I would get to work on a
movie that he's written, because I did never thought that
i'd get the chance. So it's very exciting because I've
(24:12):
been you know, I have a history online of like
and I actually have tweets. I wrote a tweet about
men and I wrote a tweet about what was it
civil war? And they both like blew up. I think
a twenty four retweeted me for both and they like
got like. So I'm like, okay, so yeah, So there's
a history of me before I started working on these
other twenty eight years later movies that I've just just
(24:34):
absolutely like, I said, love him, well, I.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Think we have a reservation. We're going to talk about
warfare and twenty eight years later later this year, So everybody,
Becky Deiana the wonderfully talented and Becky, do you want
to tell people where to find you?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, you can find me on pretty much all this
blue sky Twitter at Hollywood Minitar that's h Wood Minitar.
You can find me a letterbox at Hwood Minotar as well.
And then if you go to my website, Beckydiana dot com,
it's one word. There's no apostrophe in it, though you
can get to my website. My website has every podcast
appearents I've ever been on, has all my top ten lists.
(25:10):
You can see me starting to say that he's rapidly
becoming one of our greatest filming filmmakers to the point
where I say he is one of our greatest leiving
filmmakers if you followed my top ten. Yeah, so you
can go there and I'm always available anything you need.
I love talking movies, so you reach out I and
like my website says, it's never too late to discover
(25:31):
a great film. So just do you guys know, I
mean most of these you know, ton of stuff, but
don't ever apologize for not saying a movie yet, because
I just feel jealous. If you get if it's the
it's if it's like your first time seeing some of
these great movies, Like there's so many movies that I
haven't got to see yet, and it's it's just such
a delight to be able to see some of these
movies last time.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Those those discus bais well great, great talking to you,
and yeah, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Thanks. The audio commentary it's a dying art form. But
here at one track, mind I your wonkyet affable host
Brian Luis Rodriguez analyze film through the prism of these
embryonic forms of podcasting, one audio commentary at a time. Masterpieces,
(26:19):
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(26:42):
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Speaker 2 (00:09):
He my old friend. Well we're not old our friendship
it's been a long time, so it's great to see you.
It's really thrilled to have you. So, everybody, Becky Deana,
we are going to talk about Alex Garland. I know
you're a big fan. But before we do, I want
(00:29):
you to tell this group of people. I don't know if
it's the same group as other podcasts we've done, but
who is Becky? Introduce yourself if you don't mind.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Oh my gosh, who was beck Who is Becky? Who
is Becky? I'm Becky Deanna do movie marketing at Sony Pictures,
but I'm not speaking on behalf of them. Really, I'm
just a movie fanatic on the side. For god fifteen
years or well twenty years or so, I've been writing
top ten lists which are now on my movie website,
(01:00):
Beckydanna dot com. But in my spare time I like
to talk about movies and podcasts about movies. My favorite
filmmaker in the world, which is anyone that knows me online,
is Igmar Bergman. I call myself an Igmar Bergman disciple
because he's like my god. But I actually taught a
six hour Bergman lecture at UC Riverside in California a
(01:24):
few years ago. I'm interested in doing another class again.
And yeah, I talk a lot about I've been on
several podcasts, including yours, Aaron, talking about Bergmann. I'm also
a massive Albert Brooks fan, so I've been on your
show talking about him as well. And i love Star
Trek and science fiction, and I'm one of those people
that I haven't just I'm interested in so many different genres,
(01:47):
so art house films and big budget films, foreign films,
every type of film. So I've just I absolutely love
movies and I love talking about them and in my
day day job market them.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So yeah, that's a great connection. And that's a great
segue too with the science fiction, because well, that's the
thing is your interests are kind of all over the place,
but they're very focused. You're very very you're very targeted
and who you ex so't I wouldn't hear Bergmann Star
Trek T two, But oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
When you talk about Terminator two, Yes, so that's another
reason Terminator two, Yeah, I forgot, Yes, Terminator two is
my favorite film of all time to show you my
my very interest in films. I yeah, I love all
types of films, but yeah, Terminator two Change my life
is what the movie that made me fall in love
with movies. I've never seen a movie that I think
will ever surpass it. It's a masterpiece and I will
(02:42):
fight you to the death if you say otherwise. But
I usually it's not a film that's debatable. I think
everyone agrees that it's OK. It's extraordinary, it's well regarded.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But you wouldn't think of like T two and winter
Light as a double feature.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
But no, don't. You wouldn't put them in together as
a double feature. No, but winter Lights in my top ten.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So it's a pretty special film, but very totally, extremely different.
But we're here today to talk a little bit about
Alex Garland, who I'm thrilled that you're such a big
fan of his, because so I've been writing this book
which you know about, and I've spent you know, several
months writing and as you know, I'm going kind of
a tour by our tour but also talking about the history.
(03:22):
So it's about a twenty four Obviously, if you're looking
at this, you can see a twenty four new wave
and about how these young filmmakers, you know, kind of
got their chances. So I think Garland is really an
interesting character, character figure because he had he was a writer.
I mean he has been. He came into the industry
(03:43):
as a writer and actually achieved a lot of success
as a writer. You know, kind of a little hit
and miss, but you know, still the twenty eight Days Later,
I think franchise that stands on its own. But the
thing is a twenty four took chances with directors and
he is one of them. And what I like about
Garland and why I found him so interesting to write about,
(04:04):
is he really loves to talk about his work. And
you know there's some well so I you know, not
to bring us down, but we just lost David Lynch,
you know, that's very tough. But he did not like
to talk about his work. Some people are just like, hey, audience,
you go figure it out. Whereas Garland, he writes about
he writes really interesting stories that are our think pieces.
(04:26):
I think they challenge you, make you make you think.
It's something that you have to unpack after seeing it
in the theater. Especially some well one especially of the
movies we're about to talk about, but really all of them.
But he you know, he'll do amas and he'll do
videos and interviews. He just all over the place and
he's really proud of what he does. So so anyway, again,
(04:48):
I'm thrilled that you want to talk about Alex Garland,
and we'll stick because this is not a long show.
We'll stick to the A twenty four films, so that
the ex Makana huge film for them, Men, weird film,
and then Civil War. So I'll start with do you
have a favorite of that group or if you want
(05:08):
to choose Annihilation or Devs, that's fair too.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
No, those three are probably my three favorite. I mean,
he doesn't not like he as like, you know, extensive
filmmography or anything, but I would say those three are
my favorite of his all of his films that at
A twenty four films, X Mockin is my favorite. I
would say Men's probably my second, and then third is
(05:31):
Civil War. I civil War could surpass Men at some point.
It's funny because all three of them. So I write
a top ten list every year, but doing it for
twenty years X Mockin and made my Favorite Film of
the Year list in twenty Let's see, it was it
twenty fifteen that came out, and yeah it was number one,
and then it was then I did the Best of
(05:52):
the Decade list for twenty ten to twenty nineteen, and
it made number five on my Best Decade list. Wow,
actually it was behind two A twenty four films. Number
three of my Best of the Decade list was ghost Story.
A Ghost Story, which is the twenty four film and
number four on my Best of the Decade list was
(06:13):
first reformed, so it went it was right, So three
A twenty four films made my top five for my
decade list. But then and then Men was in twenty
two and it made number four on my top ten list,
and Civil War made number seven on my top ten
list this year, so it's the lowest ranked of my
(06:33):
top ten, but it all three made my top ten,
and I'm this was a very strong year, I think,
so that's probably why Civil War was a little bit lower.
But I Alex Garland, I just think I even mentioned
in my when I did in my little review of
Men on my top ten list, I said that he
was rapidly becoming one of our greatest living filmmakers. And
(06:54):
then I just cemented it with this year. This year,
when I talked about Civil War, I actually just listed
him as one of our greatest living filmmakers. I just
think he's talented.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, and he's such a great writer too, And that's
what I love about writer directors is they they can
write their material and then and they don't have to
worry about somebody else in interpreting that material. So so
obviously X'm not gonna massive film. I don't like it
as much as you, but I really like it. So
really that's a pretty high bar, you know, number five
of the year. I mean, I think it's an excellent film.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I think, yeah, because there's number one of them. It
came out for me, yeah right.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Right, yeah, yeah, so it's it's in the in the mix.
I haven't really done a decade list, but but it's
definitely for the purpose of a twenty four I don't
can't recall. I think it was their first Oscar because
play visual effects.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, yeah, and then he was nominated for screenplay too,
but he didn't he was.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, he was, I have to it. Also, Amy also
won Best Documentary, so I don't know which award was
first in the telecast I'm not going to research to
that degree. It's not that important, but he's in the
mix in that first and I do remember writing about
the Oscar Year, but I think that it's actually a
huge deal that it won Best Visual Effects for the budget,
(08:12):
and he really does make the most out of little
budgets micro budgets. So yeah, as much as you know,
we could really dissect x Monk in all of these
films to the umpteenth degree, I want to ask about Men,
because what I've found after watching Men and digging into
it a little bit. First off, I love it, but
(08:35):
I found that it's very divisive and I haven't figured
out why I love the So the conceit is that
we have one actor playing numerous roles. It's set in
basically one location in one town. It kind of reminds
me of Sleuth nineteen seventy two, even though I didn't
write about that, but I just just thought of it. So,
but you obviously love Men the movie, but.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then to not the movie.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yes that's not the topic of this podcast, but noted,
but what is it about the movie Men? Like I
have to qualify that what so given them that it's
just divisive and that a lot. So I'm going to
compare the Men with the Substance because it goes a
(09:22):
little crazy. I think that's why it's divisive. So Becky,
why why do you love it?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
After the Substance, maybe people will actually revisit it and
be like, what are you talking about? This was not
even close to in the same universe as the Substance.
In regards to the gore factor, I thought Men was
breathtaking and it was absolutely gorgeous cinematography. Jesse Buckley gave
a stunning performance. Yes, I just think the one thing
about Alex Scarland throughout those these three A twenty four
(09:52):
films and just in general that I just love about
him and he doesn't in this movie is he is
able to just create sense of dread unlike really any
other filmmaker at you know. Currently, I've compared him, and
this is a big comparison and I've done it online
twice now, is to Igmar Bergmann. I'm obsessed with Ingmar Bergman.
(10:15):
He's my favorite filmmaker. Like I said, I feel like
there is a direct nod to Bergmann in Men. I
think I compared him to just Bergman in general, but
one of one of the nods, and specific specifically with
Men is there's a great scene in Hour of the Wolf.
I don't know how many of these, Yes, yes, it's
(10:36):
Igmar Bergmann's horror film, but there's this. There's a few
scenes an Hour of the Wolf where if you just
tell somebody what happens, they'll be like, well, how is
that scary? But if you watch them, it's so scary,
it's viscerally scary. So there's a specific scene at Hour
of the Wolf not really give anything way where leave
Olmen and Max Foncito are in their house and leave
(10:58):
Omen turns to him and said, there's somebody out the door,
and then he's like, oh, don't get it, and then
all of a sudden you hear the door unlocking, and
that terrified. Definitely, it still because the fact of like,
oh my god, someone's actually opening the door. And there's
a scene in Men where that is happening, where there
the door's locked and then all of a sudden the
door's unlocking, and it's just it was I feel like
it's a direct nod Hour of the Wolf. I don't
(11:19):
know if Alex Garland did that on purpose or what,
but I saw it right away. It had the same
sense of dread. One of the other things about Men
is I saw it. I saw it when in the
theater opening night. It was sort of earlier in the day,
and there was I was. There was me and one other,
one other, two of the people in the whole theater,
and they're like three rows up for me. It was
a couple. I was by myself. Like rose Back, there's
(11:41):
a scene where Jesse Buckley is, here's noises outside, and
it's just like it's just the way Alice Carland uses sound,
it shadows and things. It is terrifying. And there's a
scene where she goes outside to her doorstep and I
literally was. My hands were in the air when I
was in the theater by myself, and I cannot remember.
(12:04):
It's been a long time since I was that scared
in a movie theater. And he did that for me,
and he does that one of the things. Just to
go back Ex Machina, for instance, there was a period
of ex Machina which I've never experienced in my whole
life in a movie before, which is crazy. Well, I
think it's one of the best. It's not only the
one of the best sci fi films, of the decade
(12:25):
of that decade. I think it's one of the best
sci fi films of all time. Is there is you know,
this character Donald Gleeson goes it gets to have when's
this opportunity to be with you know, the CEO's company
hang out with him for the weekend. This is a
really award he gets. And as the movie goes, he
starts to question himself because he learns about AI and robots,
(12:48):
and there's a period in the movie where he starts
to think, am I robot? Am I real? And a
no joke no joke in the movie. When I was
watching it, I actually started questioning it by own humanity.
You're thinking to myself, Wait a minute, it's possible, Like
what if your memories and everything you see around you
(13:11):
wasn't real? What if you found out that you were
a robot and you cause it like and all of
a sudden, like who you think is around you is
just like not real and it's just programs And and
that was like a crazy thing that I actually personally
thought while watching the movie, Am I real? And I
have never in my whole life had had a movie
(13:33):
question had me question my own humanity, And that was
just like, that's how much is writing his seeps into
all those films. The sense of dread, the sense of questioning.
That's the other thing is like ingmar Bergmann also is
just explores humanity in such a great way in the
human condition. I think Alex Garland through science fiction, through
these films like Men, helps you, like see like Men
(13:55):
really explores trauma and grief in a really beautiful like way,
but like really very terrifying way too. And I think
the end A lot of people can debate the end,
but I really do see it as like a masculine
thing of like men just become beget men, just beget men,
and that as is, and then just it's like men,
men men, and they just reburths more men. And then
(14:15):
every time that you get it becomes more messed up,
and and every time you try to fix themselves. I
think it's a you know, definitely, you know it's it's
it's not a great look for men. I don't want
to sometimes men like, oh, this movie is about trauma.
They don't want to think that it's actually about like
(14:36):
being the masculine an indictment on being a man. But
as a woman, it was a had a real effect
on me. And I get that it's divisive because it's
pretty gross the ending, but I mean, let's let's be honest,
Like you said, nowhere in the same universe as a
substance Jesus, that movie goes for broke. So now I
don't I think it's pretty tame. But anyway, just as
like a through line these films, he is able through
(14:59):
he's an exceptional writer. And also how he views the
cinematography men, just in a general every frame is gorgeous.
It really is cinematography. And then the cinematography and Civil
War two and the sense of dread he fills in
those films. I cannot think of just of another filmmaker.
He just understands the human condition. He's able to conjure dread.
(15:21):
He's able to ask Becky Diata, she questioned, if she's
a robot watching a movie, like.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
If Alex Garland actually watches this podcast or this video,
he'll probably be very very happy. And I'm glad I
didn't bring my notes and everything in in that chapter,
although I'm going to send you that chapter when it's
when it's edited and all that. It's pretty close actually,
But he I think he takes to light in kind
of tantalizing people and exploring these really weird themes. And
(15:52):
if you look at like so speaking of science fiction,
if you look at his influences, he loves books. Obviously,
any writer loves books, but he loves those old, you know,
nerdy science fiction books. And I don't mean nerdy in
a bad way. I mean just yeah. But but I
want to go after your your touching on Bergmann. And
I know we don't have all the time in the world,
but I really think you you are hitting a nail
(16:12):
on the head because in really all of his films. Yeah, yeah,
people think of Bergmann is an art director, artistic director,
and yeah, there are very you know, you're going to
contemplate existence. You're probably not gonna wonder if you're a robot.
That wasn't what Bergmann was about. But but but he
did create. Even in his like more subtle movies, he
(16:34):
was really good with tone and really eliciting an emotion
and a reaction. And and that's the sense of dread.
I mean, depending on the theme, it could be a
sense of calm and maybe some one of his fifties
movies and that sort of thing. But with with Garbland,
I think he's very intentional about peacemealing the story, the
plot with these cinematic elements, the score, of course, the visuals.
(16:57):
And then I think X Makina is a great example
as well as a great example and also Civil War,
but X Makina threw Donald Gleeson and the scenes with
I'm trying to remember the robot. I just eva with
those scenes when it turns when the power shuts down
and it turns to red, and so you have this
(17:17):
visual I guess reality of what he's going through, that
sense of dread. It's in your face, like it's permeating slowly,
and then all of a sudden boom. He is in
this world with this ai and he is trying to
make sense of everything. So and then with Men, i'd say, like,
(17:38):
for example, the scene where she's at the church and
you think of this as a peaceful place, a place
of solace, and then things just don't feel right, and
the further she gets I'm not going to spoil I
do recommend people watch Men because I think it is special,
but it's very very scary.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's very yeah, it's scary, and the thing is I
think it's just not like a traditional horror film. But yeah,
there are some scary films. When she there's there's she
thinks there's something around her and then you see like
a vision, you see something in the window. And the
way the lights. He is able to use sound, he
heightens sound. He's just images. He just just little things
and dialogue like Civil War. That that blistering scene where
(18:23):
Jesse Pleman says, what kind of American are you? Just
very silent and it's just it's it's so it's like
a bone chilling scene. And he's able. He is able
to cast the right actors the right and use the
right tone and the sound and the way actors are
are blocked. Everything about. He's just a phenomenal verson writer
(18:44):
but director. And that's why I think and well, I
compared him to Bergmann in Civil War, more so on
the criticism he was getting, because after the Civil War
was released, a lot of people said that he was,
you know, taking taking as non assigning blame to any party.
But just I wanted to remind people and I said,
I had a tweet about it. Yeah, that Bergmann wrote
(19:06):
shame and he also was criticized before not assigning blame
to any party. But what they both did was they
without glorification, was presenting war that wars chaos and it's
confusing and devastating and it's all of that, and uh,
it's he was more like going off on war. But
what's also he was criticized for too, which is that
(19:28):
that people would say, well, why was why is Texas
in California? They would never team up? That doesn't make
any sense, And that was this And then Alex Garland,
because I love the fact that he does interviews. I
think it's great. He actually mentioned he said that it
was really powerful because he was saying, there is this
fascist president that these two people who are so opposed
politically would actually team up in a fight against his
(19:52):
fascist president who is killing citizen press on site, killing
killing their own citizens, you know, eliminating the term limits.
Like that these people who are such opposed politically, like
Texas California would team up in a fight. That's pretty
powerful stuff. And I think some people didn't look beyond that.
They were just like, that's fiction, that would never happen.
(20:12):
But I love that he sometimes articulates this is why
this is where I came from. It is nice too,
when directors like David Lynch and say it's up to you,
and Paul Tom Sanderson does too. But I like how
he talks about his work openly. But I wanted to
just send out a tweet about that movie to remind
people that, hey, you know, Igmar Bergen was also criticized
for how because it was during the Vietnam War and
he didn't but he wanted to present wars like this
(20:34):
is how Visceral War is. So I think he's just
such a talented phenomenal. Like I said, I do really
true believe he's one of our greatest living filmmakers, and
I hope he continues to Like I love his writing
is exceptional, but his directing is also just like a
real Marvel. And I just think he's such a talent
and I really do hope he continues to do both.
(20:55):
But I'm here for all of it. I'm such a
stand on Alex stan And I.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Think The Civil War will really pay off on repeat
viewings too, because it does have that sense of dread,
and the scene you mentioned, I think is really a culmination.
So that's when some things happened and you see some
things that you were wondering about. So yeah, again, I'm
glad I didn't bring my notes because we would be
talking about this for hours and let's do this again.
So he has a new movie coming out, Warfare. I
(21:23):
think is I think it's coming out in May. If
I'm not mistaken, I forget the train.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I think there is a date. I don't know
what the date is. Actually, that movie came out of nowhere.
I didn't because I had done so many interviews of like, oh,
I'm not directing it, and all of a sudden, but he's
teaming up with Ray Mendoso, who was a military supervisor
for Civil War, and they broke and directed it together.
So I think it was just an opportunity of another project,
(21:48):
that this guy had his own story and they worked
together on it. But it really seemed a surprise to
me because I thought we weren't getting any more Alex
Garland directed films. But I'm I'm here for it. I'm
here for whatever you've got to say. Yeah, Alex Scarland, and.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
He's and it looks like zero dark or not, kind
of the hurt Lock Talker Zero Dark thirty, So we'll see.
But yeah, no, I was literally writing about Alex Garland,
and I was like, oh, he might be retired now,
who knows a good thing. I waited and then all
of a sudden, there's a trailer. Okay, yeah, well I
think I'm here for it too.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. Maybe not directing, but he wanted to go back
to just writing. And you know, a lot of people
don't know he wrote The Beach, the book The Beach
and when he was twenty eight years old, and it
became Danny Boyle turned it into a film a few
years later, but he actually wrote that book as he
was like a superstar author with The Beach, and he's
he's just like a prodigy in a way too. Of
(22:43):
just like his writing is amazing, and I mean the
fact that out of the gate his directorial debut was
Ex Machina, and I consider it one of the best
sci fi films, like in history. I just think everything
that at least he does, I'm just so I can't
for it. I'm floored by everything. His writing is really
(23:04):
just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I hate to say that a debut is mature, but wow, yeah,
so yeah, lots we can talk about with Alex Garland.
I can't wait for you all to read what I
wrote about him in the book because he's a fascinating guy.
And I thank you Alex Garland for writing or writing
so much and talking so much, because it gives me
plenty to mole through. But yeah, I'm looking forward to
(23:31):
the new movie, and I might even get to include
the new movie in the book. We'll see about the timing,
you know. Of course, obviously I have to get a
chance to watch it, and I'm sure he'll do plenty
of interviews. But he's not out of the game. I
know he's writing twenty eight years later, and so that'll
probably be out.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, that's Sony Movies to go see that. It's June twenty.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Five.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And then there's a sequel already on the books for
January sixteen, twenty six, that's twenty eight years later, The
Bone Temple. He is writing both of those. It's a
big deal that he's reteeming with Danny Boyle. I just
literally jumped out of my skin when I found out
that we were I would get to work on a
movie that he's written, because I did never thought that
i'd get the chance. So it's very exciting because I've
(24:12):
been you know, I have a history online of like
and I actually have tweets. I wrote a tweet about
men and I wrote a tweet about what was it
civil war? And they both like blew up. I think
a twenty four retweeted me for both and they like
got like. So I'm like, okay, so yeah, So there's
a history of me before I started working on these
other twenty eight years later movies that I've just just
(24:34):
absolutely like, I said, love him, well, I.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Think we have a reservation. We're going to talk about
warfare and twenty eight years later later this year, So everybody,
Becky Deiana the wonderfully talented and Becky, do you want
to tell people where to find you?
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, you can find me on pretty much all this
blue sky Twitter at Hollywood Minitar that's h Wood Minitar.
You can find me a letterbox at Hwood Minotar as well.
And then if you go to my website, Beckydiana dot com,
it's one word. There's no apostrophe in it, though you
can get to my website. My website has every podcast
appearents I've ever been on, has all my top ten lists.
(25:10):
You can see me starting to say that he's rapidly
becoming one of our greatest filming filmmakers to the point
where I say he is one of our greatest leiving
filmmakers if you followed my top ten. Yeah, so you
can go there and I'm always available anything you need.
I love talking movies, so you reach out I and
like my website says, it's never too late to discover
(25:31):
a great film. So just do you guys know, I
mean most of these you know, ton of stuff, but
don't ever apologize for not saying a movie yet, because
I just feel jealous. If you get if it's the
it's if it's like your first time seeing some of
these great movies, Like there's so many movies that I
haven't got to see yet, and it's it's just such
a delight to be able to see some of these
movies last time.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Those those discus bais well great, great talking to you,
and yeah, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Thanks. The audio commentary it's a dying art form. But
here at one track, mind I your wonkyet affable host
Brian Luis Rodriguez analyze film through the prism of these
embryonic forms of podcasting, one audio commentary at a time. Masterpieces,
(26:19):
crapster pieces, live action animation, cult classics, films literally no
one has ever heard of. No track is too small
and no track is too big. Join me and my
guests from the entertainment world as we keep these features
alive every other Tuesday. Hey, who else is going to
discuss Bill and Ted's bogus Journey one week and Citizen
(26:42):
Kane the next us that's who? Sure, you have to
put up with my voice, but there's a certain give
and take in this industry. That's one track mind, part
of the Someone's Favorite Productions family, and available wherever you
get your podcasts.
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