October 15, 2025 • 25 mins
Episode 793:
In this episode, Chris and Jeff dive into a thought-provoking discussion as part of their ongoing series, "Stump the Pastor." They answer two questions from different listeners. One question asks about the seven days of creation, while the other questions asks about the separation of body, soul, and spirit after death.
In this episode, Chris and Jeff dive into a thought-provoking discussion as part of their ongoing series, "Stump the Pastor." They answer two questions from different listeners. One question asks about the seven days of creation, while the other questions asks about the separation of body, soul, and spirit after death.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, what I thought you were going to sing
it again?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh? No, I I just just okay, I was just
sort of snapping.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay, so I could have done this. I'm sorry to
interrupt you. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
No, no, no, no, he's gonna say welcome because we are
in the middle of a really great series called Stump
the Pastor, and people have written in and it's my
job to say that every day. If you listen to
this episode and you think, man, I have a question, yeah,
we would love to hear it. So email us at
info at the Bible Guys dot com. And who are you?
(00:45):
Who am I? Yeah, I'm one of the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, you didn't introduce yourself, Oh because I interrupted you.
I'm Chris and I'm Jeff and we're the Bible Guys.
That's right there, you go, just in case, in case
we have a listener going what is happening right now?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
By the way, have we these people have we ever
introduced our last names? What about what about people who
don't go to heritage.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I don't want a bunch of stalkers looking me up.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Because they're all obsessed.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah yeah, I actually I call you zar Ball all
the time. Oh on the episode, especially when you're not here,
I talk bad about you.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh yeah yeah yeah I've been told that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah. So anyways, Yeah, we're the Bible guys. Yeah, we're
glad the people are here and we're in a stumped
pastor episode.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, and so today we are looking at two questions,
and the first one is can I just go ahead
and just read it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, this is written.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
By Mitchell t Hey Mitchell.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And here's what he says, if God took seven literal
days to make all of creation. I think it's written.
I think it's written wrong, because if I were, he.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Wrote it the way he wanted to read it. But no,
maybe it's a copy copy piste.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, here's the way. Here's the way it reads. If
God took seven literal days to make all of creation,
or the seven days is being used to describe figuratively
how God created the heavens and the earth period.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh, it's probably start. There's a there's a thing that
wasn't included. Yes, correct, My question is right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
And so then so then it says it goes on.
I lean more towards the seven figurative days because of
things like carbon dating and looking at science in a
cool way. God gave us to discover how he did
all of these amazing things.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So that's a good question. I think a lot of
people ask questions like that. Yeah, So basically he's saying,
my question is is it is was creation in a
literal seven days, twenty four hours or was it figurative?
Like he's talking about eons of time.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I've heard this too before because even g wears what
movie was it where it was one of the great
founders of the faith, was like a defense attorney? Was
it Amistad? The movie Amistad? Where it was like Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I don't know who it was found founders of the nation.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, I don't know what it was, but basically it
was one of the great founders of our faith, of
our nation, of our nation. I'm sorry I said faith.
Goodness gracious, that's so funny. You're like, you're like, I
know what you're trying to say, and that's not what
you're saying. Yeah, the founders of our nation, fathers, founding fathers,
but he was answering it. And anyway, it was a
(03:40):
very supposed sort of you know, a movie wasn't real obviously,
but they were. They were. They were piecing us together.
And one of the things that they were trying to
stump them on was to break apart in the Bible.
And he says, he goes, well, how do you know
that it was seven days? And then they basically took
the next like thirty minutes to try to say that
(04:01):
what if the day wasn't an actual literal day. And
it was interesting because he says, that would mean that
nothing could be trusted in the Bible. They tried to
use the argument on the first couple chaps, you know,
first couple of verses and saying like that means that
nothing in the Bible was reliable and it all hinged
on creation.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Was was that a dramatization of the Scopes monkey trial?
It was a really it was a really famous It
was not it was a it was because that was
a famous trial back here.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It was freeing slaves. It was about freeing slaves. It
was about God. What the Bible says about God's value
of the person.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Ok.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And they were trying to break apart in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, So anyway, all that to say this, I've seen
this argument played out in many times til many times, right,
And of course I went to a movie. But what
were you talking about? Monkey trials? What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That was a thing that happened back in the I
think it was the end of the nineteenth century or
maybe early twenties. It is, early twentieth century, and it
was an argument about faith in society and particularly with
regard to evolution. And so there was this big argument
and one of the and it was between two of
the great lawyers of the day, a world famous atheists
(05:17):
and then a world famous Christian, and so it was
a very very interesting thing, and they debated in court
over the veracity of the Bible and creation and all
those kind of things. So that's what I thought maybe
you were talking about, because that sounds very familiar. That's
been just been traumatized a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So okay, okay, Well, I mean so literally, the Bible
says in Genesis that he called you know, the sun
and the moon, he created those day and night, and
he said it was night and then day, and he
called it a day, right, do you have that script
in front of you?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, in Genesis chapter one, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'm just saying, can you actually read from the Bible?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Let me pull it up.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I thought you had it with you, so I didn't, Okay,
but he said, but he city called that being the day.
So in other words, what I'm trying to say is
he literally defines a day, right, right, So he creates
the greater light which is the sun, and the lesser light,
which is the moon.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So you have, like in the New International version, it
just says, and there was evening and there was morning
the first day, oh right, and then the next one
and there was evening, there was morning in the second day,
and then there was evening and morning, and it was
a third day. So that's how God describes each of
the days of creation is just evening and then morning.
(06:36):
And that's a day, not.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
A millennia of evenings and a millennia of mornings. Right, yeah,
So we believe.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It was literal single yeah, singular Yeah, I lean that way.
But let's let's be you know, honest. There are theologians
that debate this topic often, so let's give a couple
of different perspectives. One would be seven literal twenty four
hour days as we experience them now evening morning, sunset, sunrise, daytime, nighttime,
(07:08):
twenty four hours. One spinning of the planet around right
right facing the sun, not facing the sun, facing the
sun again, twenty four hours. So that's one. That's the
literal reading on the page, that's the only way you'd
really read it literally on the page is evening and
morning is one.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Day, because the versus before he created the earth.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
That's right. So then there's another one, another view that
these days are figurative and that they represent seasons of
time or eons of time where God, first of all,
there was nothing and then there was light, and light
was spreading throughout the universe over eons of time, and
then you know, over another billion years or whatever, then
(07:52):
God creates the heavens and the earth, and so this's
the stars and the planet, and then the planet cools,
and then finally there needs to be and an atmosphere,
and so then that would be the next day, and
that's you know, thousands or millions of years, billions of years, whatever,
and so each of these days would represent a phase
of creation over billions of years, and that idea was
(08:16):
not an idea until after Darwin's theory of evolution. People
weren't trying to figure out how to squeeze you know,
seven days or six days into now billions of years.
They weren't doing that until the theory of evolution came out,
and then Christians began trying to adapt the literal seven
day thing to billions of years over eons of time.
(08:37):
And then there's there's another gap or another idea called
the gap theory that falls in between those two, also
trying to accommodate evolution. It's called the gap theory, and
that would be that there'd be you know, billions of
years or eons of time between Genesis chapter one, verse
one and Genesis chapter one, verse two, and then that's
how all the things got created. And then and then
(08:59):
God came on this planet and specifically made those things himself.
So there's it. I would fall in the idea of
seven literal days for a couple different reasons. One the
he and I'm not a Hebrew expert, so I'm not
gonna argue this too much, but I do believe that
the word yam just literally means. The simplest translation is
just a twenty four hour day, and that's the word
(09:21):
that's used, and another one would be then well, then
how do you get all this? You know, my son
and I we went into the lou Ray Caverns in Virginia,
which are, according to National Geographic the most decorated caverns
with salagtites and slagmites in the world. And they're stunning,
(09:44):
just stunning. And so we're going through and the guide
is explaining and it takes you know, because it deposits,
you know, minuscule amount of limestone every time I drop
drips of water. And so then because of that, you
can work out time. And it took you know, so
many million year for this cave to come alive and
to have all these things. So on the way out,
my son was asking me, so, how do you feel
(10:06):
about that? Do you really think it took millions of years?
And I said, well, obviously, the science says it only
deposits this much. If the water runs faster, it's not
going to deposit. If it runs slower, it's not going
to deposit. If it goes at this speed, deposits a
little bit of limestone every time. That's how long it
takes He goes, well, how you justify that with seven
six days of creation? And I said, well, God made.
(10:30):
God made plants ready for food. God made birds that
could fly and fish that could swim. God made a
man and a woman and told them to reproduce so
they were old. Right. It didn't say he made a
baby boy and a baby girl and said he made
the man and then he made the woman.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And he didn't make seeds. He made plants right.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He made He made the plants with the seeds in them, right,
which means a pomegranate had all those seeds inside. A
tomato had all those seeds. It was a fully fleshed
out tomato. I said, here's how I think of it,
because my son was having a hard time with it.
He was a teenager. I said, you ever grab the
button on YouTube, scroll it and you and then stop it,
rate exactly where you need it in the show, and
(11:13):
then pick up from that point on. So yeah, I said,
what if God just did that? Because God's outside of time.
The Bible says that a thousand days day is a
thousand years. A thousand years as a day to God
basically is saying God isn't really affected by time. He's
outside of time. He's the one with the YouTube video
in front of him. We're in the YouTube video. He's
the one with YouTube video in front of him, and
he just scrolls it to exactly where it needs to
(11:34):
be for things to be able to get started at
the right point. And so I think he could make
something with age that didn't take that much time, and
because God's not affected by time, and so I don't
have a problem with it being a six day creation.
But what I do know is this, and I've had
conversations with scientists, evolutionary scientists about this, and I said,
here's what I can tell you. Go look at every
(11:57):
four thousand year old document in the world and tell
me any other document that gives this order. There was nothing,
then bang, there was everything. Light first, nothing, then bang,
everything light first. Then from there, as you go through
(12:17):
the list, let me pull it up. The very next
thing is the next thing that needed to be an order,
even according to evolutionists. So he says, first there's light.
Then he says, hey, we're going to need a cooling
planet that's going to need to create water, but we
have to have an atmosphere in order to keep the
water on our planet four thousand years ago. How did
they know that right? And what other document on the
(12:41):
planet had that idea right? Then he says, let the
water under the sky so oceans. Let the water above
be an atmosphere. And then he says, hey, now we're
going to need some plants. So before he puts animals on,
he puts food on. Then he puts fish in the sea,
he puts birds in the sky. He puts sun, moon
(13:03):
and stars for navigation. So now all of a sudden,
we can see the universe. So I'm not saying the
universe wasn't there on the first day or whatever, but
now we can see it through our atmosphere. So it's
thin enough to see through, but thick enough to be
able to keep the air on the planet. Now we've
got living creatures. We've got food for all the creatures
at this point. Then after that he makes people. So
(13:27):
people have sun, moon and stars, they have an atmosphere,
they have a perfect rotation of the planet, perfect distance
from the star. We've got the right heat, we've got
the right oxygen. We've got the right water, we've got
dry land, we've got animals, we've got food. It's in
the perfect order that even an evolutionary evolutionist would say,
we'd need it in this way. He says, fish and birds,
(13:48):
then dry land animals, and then people. It's exactly the
right order. So here's what I do know. God did
it the way you said. Just I think he did
it in six days inte that is six trillion years
or whatever. That's all but the way you say. And
so science is us discovering what God already made. And
(14:08):
I don't think that the issue is how did he
do it? The issue is whether he did it or
whether you've decided to just happen by random Yeah, you
know processes.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, And so the simple part of the answer to
that question is, you know, he says, well, carbon dating
suggests it takes this many years, but not if God
creates it with age. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
If it was created with age, then of course it
shows that kind of carbon right now. Yeah, because it
would take that long for the planet the cool. But
if God just fast forward to the point where it
was cool, because he's not bound by time, it's not
a problem. And I don't think that's too fanciful. I
don't think that's too out there. I mean, man, read
some of the crazy articles and popular mechanics and then
come back and tell me that that idea is nuts.
(14:48):
Unlimited universes and time and space and blah blah all
this stuff. Right, So it's a plausible response to a
big question. And then the difficulty is you're talking millions
of years anyways. None of us can fathom two hundred years, right, right,
so to talk about billions of years it is it's
a hypothetical situation. The question is not how did he
(15:11):
do it? The question is do you believe God did it?
That's really the biggest issue.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, we're going to do the next question.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You're ready, which, by the way, read Lee Strobel's book
The Case for Creator Creator. Yeah, I think it's really solid.
Or Norm Geisler's book in Systematic Theology, and he just
has an entire section on God in creation that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, so here we go on. The next question was
written by Stephen W. K. Stephen and he says, after death,
is the separation of our being simply a division between
body and soul? Or does it involve a more complex
process of where body, soul, and spirit each take on
distinctive roles or destinations.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, that's okay, pretty great question.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So frame that just a little bit. What do you
think he's asking here?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Well, I think that he is wondering about, at least
the way that I read it is, he is wondering about,
is it just like our physical body, right, and then
we have a soul? He's like, or is there is
there like a is there a distinct function between the
fact that we are made up of three things? So
(16:21):
Paul clearly names three distinct parts of our being. He
lists body, soul, and spirit, each meant to be made
holy and to be made whole before God. And so
I think he's just wondering more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, right, this is part of what you know. The
Bible says that we were created in the image of God,
and God is a trinity, the Father's son and the
Holy Spirit, the physical body, the Holy Spirit, you know,
God being the Father.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So God has a way of creating in threes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes, and so we are made in His image, and
we are also a trinity. We are a body, a
soul in our bodies. I mean, that was the easiest
one for us to figure out because we can you know,
feel them, see here, smell, taste, we experience all of
our existence in and through our bodies.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And the Greek word is soma, soa the physical part
of us that interacts with the material world.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Our soul is that part of us that is alive.
God breathed into man the breath of life, and man
became a living soul. The Bible talks about sometimes refers
to animals with the soul, right, So soul, it just
seems to be our life force, which is really interesting.
Did you see that article this last week about there
(17:41):
seems to be a radiation from all living things and
when they die, the radiation goes away the globe. No,
it just was just recent. There's a spectrum and this
is science. It's a scientist that wrote it. I could
probably find it if you give me a second here.
I just read this article. Is amazing that there's a
spectrum where they realize all living things have a radiation
(18:02):
glow and when that living thing ceases to live, the
glow goes away. Right, And so this non Christian scientist
was saying, so is this the soul? Is this the
life force of the human or of the living thing.
It's pretty interesting. So I could probably find it pretty
quickly for you. I should have looked it up before
we got into this. It was unmb I forgot what magazine.
(18:23):
So then your body is easy to figure out. That's
how you're existing, or that's how you're experiencing your existence.
Your soul is that life force that we know goes
away when a body dies. Did you know when our
human dies they weigh less after the death than before
the death. Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I certainly did not know that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, it's almost immediate. Yeah, so it's really weird. That's
your life force is your soul, and then your spirit.
That's the thing I think it's confusing for us. Your
spirit is the thing that makes it possible for you
to engage with God. That's really who you are, right,
that's really who you were made to be. And the
Bible matter that talks about we must worship God in
(19:02):
spirit because God is a spirit. So that's the part
that allows us to connect to our creator. And that's
the part. Remember in the Book of Genesis when God
said to Adam and Eve, if you eat this fruit,
you will surely die, and Satan goes, You're not going
to die, you know he did. He was playing He
was playing semantics with them. Was it true their bodies
(19:23):
didn't die immediately, Their bodies began dying, but didn't die immediately,
but their spirit, their ability to connect on the spiritual realm,
immediately ended. And so then when you read in First
and Second Corinthians, Paul talks about we are dead in
our sins, right, so God sees us as spiritually dead.
And then he says in First Corinthians, but you were
(19:45):
raised with Christ to walk in a brand new life, right.
And so the power of Jesus resurrection then makes it
possible for my spirit to come alive. And that's what
makes it possible for me to have a relationship with
God throughout eternity. Bod he goes to the grave. Some day,
you're going to get a new body. The Bible says,
a body of flesh and bone is what it says.
(20:06):
Doesn't mention blood, which is interesting. But Paul says, you're
going to receive a body of flesh and bone, and
this new body at the resurrection, we will be caught
up to meet him physical resurrection, and then we will
get a new body, and we will be with him
(20:26):
and we will be like him, for we should see
him as he is is what Paul says.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah. So it says our soul is our mind, our will,
our emotions, and it's actually the Greek word psyche, where
we get our word psychology, and it's the seat of
our thoughts, our feelings, our personality what makes us us right.
And then the scriptures that came up here when I
(20:53):
was looking this up Matthew sixteen twenty six. What good
is it if someone were to gain the whole world
and yet forfeit our soul, that is who we are
as a person right Hebrews four to twelve. The Word
of God is alive and act of dividing the soul
and the spirit and the body, which is the joints
and marrow right, and then's on one O three, Bless
the Lord, oh my soul, and all that he lives
within me. Bless his holy name. So it says, in summary,
(21:16):
the soul is your inner life, your thoughts, desires, emotions.
It's what loves, is what hurts, it's what makes choices.
It's eternal and will live beyond your body's death. But
the spirit, that's again, those are the distinctive things, right,
It's the God conscious part of that's in us. She whiz.
(21:36):
How would you pronounce that? It's a numah?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, numah numah. That's the wind or the or the breath.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, the wind or the breath of God. Which is interesting,
isn't it? Because God breathes life into atom, right, and
then Adam becomes alive.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And that's literally the Greek word used to describe your spirit.
It's almost every time spirit comes up, it's numa.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And that's also interesting because it says that when they
receive the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, it says Jesus.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Breathed on them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So it's the same, it's it's it's got that in common,
which is interesting. So the scriptures that go along with
the spirit is the human spirit is a lamp of
the Lord that sheds light on one's in most being
Proverbs twenty John four. God is spirit, and the worshippers
must worship him in spirit and in truth. And then
(22:24):
Romans eight sixteen. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit
that we are God's children. So your spirit is what
becomes alive when you were born again John three six.
Before salvation, the spirit is dead to God Ephesians two
to one. But through Christ is awakened, empowered, and then
sealed by the Holy Spirit and in Ephesians four thirty. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Interesting, So I'm pretty sure I know, Stephen, So this
would be super super useful to you, Steve by Norm
Geisler's Systematic Theology in one volume. Matter of fact, stop
talk to me after church. Someday, I'll just give you one.
But they're like sixteen hundred pages. We give these away
all the time to all of our residents. We give
them away to almost all of our new teaching pastors
(23:06):
and anybody who comes on staff that's coming on as
a pastor. It's one of the things that just kind
of helps put language, clear language, common language among our
staff on our theology. And Norm has an entire section
in there a man and sin and salvation and then
what happens to our spirit in eternity? Right, so those
(23:29):
things so God made us as a trinity, body, soul
and spirit. When we send our spirit immediately died, our
body begins to die. When we die, our soul leaves
our body. And that's when the Book of eccles Era
was it Genesis ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Right,
(23:49):
we go back to the ground, our body goes back
to the ground and we just go back to dirt.
But our soul will live for eternity somewhere if our
spirit is reawakened through Christ and what He did on
the cross, where reawakened to live a new life with Christ,
(24:10):
with the Father Son and Holy Spirit in eternity. That's
what you're envisioning is heaven someday. If your spirit is
not reawakened through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, you have
not received Him as your Holy Spirit, then your soul
spends eternity in hell, eternally, separated from God. Bible describes
torment destruction. So you're going to live forever who you are,
(24:33):
your soul, your personality, who you are, is going to
live forever. The question is is your soul is your
spirit reawakened by God's spirit or not? Do you have
the breath of God in you again or no? And
then in eternity you will be reunited with your body.
Only it'll be perfect. Right, That's what's going to happen.
So that kind of summarizes it all. But if you
(24:55):
want some good reading on it, get that Systematic Theology
and one volume by Norm Geisler and plow through some
of those things pretty great.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, hey, that wraps up our time right now, so
hopefully we will see you tomorrow on the Bible Gash
You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey, everybody, what I thought you were going to sing
it again?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh? No, I I just just okay, I was just
sort of snapping.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay, so I could have done this. I'm sorry to
interrupt you. Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
No, no, no, no, he's gonna say welcome because we are
in the middle of a really great series called Stump
the Pastor, and people have written in and it's my
job to say that every day. If you listen to
this episode and you think, man, I have a question, yeah,
we would love to hear it. So email us at
info at the Bible Guys dot com. And who are you?
(00:45):
Who am I? Yeah, I'm one of the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, you didn't introduce yourself, Oh because I interrupted you.
I'm Chris and I'm Jeff and we're the Bible Guys.
That's right there, you go, just in case, in case
we have a listener going what is happening right now?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
By the way, have we these people have we ever
introduced our last names? What about what about people who
don't go to heritage.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I don't want a bunch of stalkers looking me up.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Because they're all obsessed.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah yeah, I actually I call you zar Ball all
the time. Oh on the episode, especially when you're not here,
I talk bad about you.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh yeah yeah yeah I've been told that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah. So anyways, Yeah, we're the Bible guys. Yeah, we're
glad the people are here and we're in a stumped
pastor episode.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, and so today we are looking at two questions,
and the first one is can I just go ahead
and just read it?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, this is written.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
By Mitchell t Hey Mitchell.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
And here's what he says, if God took seven literal
days to make all of creation. I think it's written.
I think it's written wrong, because if I were, he.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Wrote it the way he wanted to read it. But no,
maybe it's a copy copy piste.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, here's the way. Here's the way it reads. If
God took seven literal days to make all of creation,
or the seven days is being used to describe figuratively
how God created the heavens and the earth period.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh, it's probably start. There's a there's a thing that
wasn't included. Yes, correct, My question is right.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
And so then so then it says it goes on.
I lean more towards the seven figurative days because of
things like carbon dating and looking at science in a
cool way. God gave us to discover how he did
all of these amazing things.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So that's a good question. I think a lot of
people ask questions like that. Yeah, So basically he's saying,
my question is is it is was creation in a
literal seven days, twenty four hours or was it figurative?
Like he's talking about eons of time.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I've heard this too before because even g wears what
movie was it where it was one of the great
founders of the faith, was like a defense attorney? Was
it Amistad? The movie Amistad? Where it was like Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I don't know who it was found founders of the nation.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, I don't know what it was, but basically it
was one of the great founders of our faith, of
our nation, of our nation. I'm sorry I said faith.
Goodness gracious, that's so funny. You're like, you're like, I
know what you're trying to say, and that's not what
you're saying. Yeah, the founders of our nation, fathers, founding fathers,
but he was answering it. And anyway, it was a
(03:40):
very supposed sort of you know, a movie wasn't real obviously,
but they were. They were. They were piecing us together.
And one of the things that they were trying to
stump them on was to break apart in the Bible.
And he says, he goes, well, how do you know
that it was seven days? And then they basically took
the next like thirty minutes to try to say that
(04:01):
what if the day wasn't an actual literal day. And
it was interesting because he says, that would mean that
nothing could be trusted in the Bible. They tried to
use the argument on the first couple chaps, you know,
first couple of verses and saying like that means that
nothing in the Bible was reliable and it all hinged
on creation.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Was was that a dramatization of the Scopes monkey trial?
It was a really it was a really famous It
was not it was a it was because that was
a famous trial back here.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It was freeing slaves. It was about freeing slaves. It
was about God. What the Bible says about God's value
of the person.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Ok.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And they were trying to break apart in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yeah, So anyway, all that to say this, I've seen
this argument played out in many times til many times, right,
And of course I went to a movie. But what
were you talking about? Monkey trials? What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That was a thing that happened back in the I
think it was the end of the nineteenth century or
maybe early twenties. It is, early twentieth century, and it
was an argument about faith in society and particularly with
regard to evolution. And so there was this big argument
and one of the and it was between two of
the great lawyers of the day, a world famous atheists
(05:17):
and then a world famous Christian, and so it was
a very very interesting thing, and they debated in court
over the veracity of the Bible and creation and all
those kind of things. So that's what I thought maybe
you were talking about, because that sounds very familiar. That's
been just been traumatized a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So okay, okay, Well, I mean so literally, the Bible
says in Genesis that he called you know, the sun
and the moon, he created those day and night, and
he said it was night and then day, and he
called it a day, right, do you have that script
in front of you?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, in Genesis chapter one, I know, but.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'm just saying, can you actually read from the Bible?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Let me pull it up.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I thought you had it with you, so I didn't, Okay,
but he said, but he city called that being the day.
So in other words, what I'm trying to say is
he literally defines a day, right, right, So he creates
the greater light which is the sun, and the lesser light,
which is the moon.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
So you have, like in the New International version, it
just says, and there was evening and there was morning
the first day, oh right, and then the next one
and there was evening, there was morning in the second day,
and then there was evening and morning, and it was
a third day. So that's how God describes each of
the days of creation is just evening and then morning.
(06:36):
And that's a day, not.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
A millennia of evenings and a millennia of mornings. Right, yeah,
So we believe.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It was literal single yeah, singular Yeah, I lean that way.
But let's let's be you know, honest. There are theologians
that debate this topic often, so let's give a couple
of different perspectives. One would be seven literal twenty four
hour days as we experience them now evening morning, sunset, sunrise, daytime, nighttime,
(07:08):
twenty four hours. One spinning of the planet around right
right facing the sun, not facing the sun, facing the
sun again, twenty four hours. So that's one. That's the
literal reading on the page, that's the only way you'd
really read it literally on the page is evening and
morning is one.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Day, because the versus before he created the earth.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
That's right. So then there's another one, another view that
these days are figurative and that they represent seasons of
time or eons of time where God, first of all,
there was nothing and then there was light, and light
was spreading throughout the universe over eons of time, and
then you know, over another billion years or whatever, then
(07:52):
God creates the heavens and the earth, and so this's
the stars and the planet, and then the planet cools,
and then finally there needs to be and an atmosphere,
and so then that would be the next day, and
that's you know, thousands or millions of years, billions of years, whatever,
and so each of these days would represent a phase
of creation over billions of years, and that idea was
(08:16):
not an idea until after Darwin's theory of evolution. People
weren't trying to figure out how to squeeze you know,
seven days or six days into now billions of years.
They weren't doing that until the theory of evolution came out,
and then Christians began trying to adapt the literal seven
day thing to billions of years over eons of time.
(08:37):
And then there's there's another gap or another idea called
the gap theory that falls in between those two, also
trying to accommodate evolution. It's called the gap theory, and
that would be that there'd be you know, billions of
years or eons of time between Genesis chapter one, verse
one and Genesis chapter one, verse two, and then that's
how all the things got created. And then and then
(08:59):
God came on this planet and specifically made those things himself.
So there's it. I would fall in the idea of
seven literal days for a couple different reasons. One the
he and I'm not a Hebrew expert, so I'm not
gonna argue this too much, but I do believe that
the word yam just literally means. The simplest translation is
just a twenty four hour day, and that's the word
(09:21):
that's used, and another one would be then well, then
how do you get all this? You know, my son
and I we went into the lou Ray Caverns in Virginia,
which are, according to National Geographic the most decorated caverns
with salagtites and slagmites in the world. And they're stunning,
(09:44):
just stunning. And so we're going through and the guide
is explaining and it takes you know, because it deposits,
you know, minuscule amount of limestone every time I drop
drips of water. And so then because of that, you
can work out time. And it took you know, so
many million year for this cave to come alive and
to have all these things. So on the way out,
my son was asking me, so, how do you feel
(10:06):
about that? Do you really think it took millions of years?
And I said, well, obviously, the science says it only
deposits this much. If the water runs faster, it's not
going to deposit. If it runs slower, it's not going
to deposit. If it goes at this speed, deposits a
little bit of limestone every time. That's how long it
takes He goes, well, how you justify that with seven
six days of creation? And I said, well, God made.
(10:30):
God made plants ready for food. God made birds that
could fly and fish that could swim. God made a
man and a woman and told them to reproduce so
they were old. Right. It didn't say he made a
baby boy and a baby girl and said he made
the man and then he made the woman.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
And he didn't make seeds. He made plants right.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He made He made the plants with the seeds in them, right,
which means a pomegranate had all those seeds inside. A
tomato had all those seeds. It was a fully fleshed
out tomato. I said, here's how I think of it,
because my son was having a hard time with it.
He was a teenager. I said, you ever grab the
button on YouTube, scroll it and you and then stop it,
rate exactly where you need it in the show, and
(11:13):
then pick up from that point on. So yeah, I said,
what if God just did that? Because God's outside of time.
The Bible says that a thousand days day is a
thousand years. A thousand years as a day to God
basically is saying God isn't really affected by time. He's
outside of time. He's the one with the YouTube video
in front of him. We're in the YouTube video. He's
the one with YouTube video in front of him, and
he just scrolls it to exactly where it needs to
(11:34):
be for things to be able to get started at
the right point. And so I think he could make
something with age that didn't take that much time, and
because God's not affected by time, and so I don't
have a problem with it being a six day creation.
But what I do know is this, and I've had
conversations with scientists, evolutionary scientists about this, and I said,
here's what I can tell you. Go look at every
(11:57):
four thousand year old document in the world and tell
me any other document that gives this order. There was nothing,
then bang, there was everything. Light first, nothing, then bang,
everything light first. Then from there, as you go through
(12:17):
the list, let me pull it up. The very next
thing is the next thing that needed to be an order,
even according to evolutionists. So he says, first there's light.
Then he says, hey, we're going to need a cooling
planet that's going to need to create water, but we
have to have an atmosphere in order to keep the
water on our planet four thousand years ago. How did
they know that right? And what other document on the
(12:41):
planet had that idea right? Then he says, let the
water under the sky so oceans. Let the water above
be an atmosphere. And then he says, hey, now we're
going to need some plants. So before he puts animals on,
he puts food on. Then he puts fish in the sea,
he puts birds in the sky. He puts sun, moon
(13:03):
and stars for navigation. So now all of a sudden,
we can see the universe. So I'm not saying the
universe wasn't there on the first day or whatever, but
now we can see it through our atmosphere. So it's
thin enough to see through, but thick enough to be
able to keep the air on the planet. Now we've
got living creatures. We've got food for all the creatures
at this point. Then after that he makes people. So
(13:27):
people have sun, moon and stars, they have an atmosphere,
they have a perfect rotation of the planet, perfect distance
from the star. We've got the right heat, we've got
the right oxygen. We've got the right water, we've got
dry land, we've got animals, we've got food. It's in
the perfect order that even an evolutionary evolutionist would say,
we'd need it in this way. He says, fish and birds,
(13:48):
then dry land animals, and then people. It's exactly the
right order. So here's what I do know. God did
it the way you said. Just I think he did
it in six days inte that is six trillion years
or whatever. That's all but the way you say. And
so science is us discovering what God already made. And
(14:08):
I don't think that the issue is how did he
do it? The issue is whether he did it or
whether you've decided to just happen by random Yeah, you
know processes.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, And so the simple part of the answer to
that question is, you know, he says, well, carbon dating
suggests it takes this many years, but not if God
creates it with age. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
If it was created with age, then of course it
shows that kind of carbon right now. Yeah, because it
would take that long for the planet the cool. But
if God just fast forward to the point where it
was cool, because he's not bound by time, it's not
a problem. And I don't think that's too fanciful. I
don't think that's too out there. I mean, man, read
some of the crazy articles and popular mechanics and then
come back and tell me that that idea is nuts.
(14:48):
Unlimited universes and time and space and blah blah all
this stuff. Right, So it's a plausible response to a
big question. And then the difficulty is you're talking millions
of years anyways. None of us can fathom two hundred years, right, right,
so to talk about billions of years it is it's
a hypothetical situation. The question is not how did he
(15:11):
do it? The question is do you believe God did it?
That's really the biggest issue.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Okay, we're going to do the next question.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
You're ready, which, by the way, read Lee Strobel's book
The Case for Creator Creator. Yeah, I think it's really solid.
Or Norm Geisler's book in Systematic Theology, and he just
has an entire section on God in creation that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, so here we go on. The next question was
written by Stephen W. K. Stephen and he says, after death,
is the separation of our being simply a division between
body and soul? Or does it involve a more complex
process of where body, soul, and spirit each take on
distinctive roles or destinations.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, that's okay, pretty great question.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So frame that just a little bit. What do you
think he's asking here?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Well, I think that he is wondering about, at least
the way that I read it is, he is wondering about,
is it just like our physical body, right, and then
we have a soul? He's like, or is there is
there like a is there a distinct function between the
fact that we are made up of three things? So
(16:21):
Paul clearly names three distinct parts of our being. He
lists body, soul, and spirit, each meant to be made
holy and to be made whole before God. And so
I think he's just wondering more about that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, right, this is part of what you know. The
Bible says that we were created in the image of God,
and God is a trinity, the Father's son and the
Holy Spirit, the physical body, the Holy Spirit, you know,
God being the Father.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So God has a way of creating in threes.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes, and so we are made in His image, and
we are also a trinity. We are a body, a
soul in our bodies. I mean, that was the easiest
one for us to figure out because we can you know,
feel them, see here, smell, taste, we experience all of
our existence in and through our bodies.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And the Greek word is soma, soa the physical part
of us that interacts with the material world.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Our soul is that part of us that is alive.
God breathed into man the breath of life, and man
became a living soul. The Bible talks about sometimes refers
to animals with the soul, right, So soul, it just
seems to be our life force, which is really interesting.
Did you see that article this last week about there
(17:41):
seems to be a radiation from all living things and
when they die, the radiation goes away the globe. No,
it just was just recent. There's a spectrum and this
is science. It's a scientist that wrote it. I could
probably find it if you give me a second here.
I just read this article. Is amazing that there's a
spectrum where they realize all living things have a radiation
(18:02):
glow and when that living thing ceases to live, the
glow goes away. Right, And so this non Christian scientist
was saying, so is this the soul? Is this the
life force of the human or of the living thing.
It's pretty interesting. So I could probably find it pretty
quickly for you. I should have looked it up before
we got into this. It was unmb I forgot what magazine.
(18:23):
So then your body is easy to figure out. That's
how you're existing, or that's how you're experiencing your existence.
Your soul is that life force that we know goes
away when a body dies. Did you know when our
human dies they weigh less after the death than before
the death. Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I certainly did not know that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, it's almost immediate. Yeah, so it's really weird. That's
your life force is your soul, and then your spirit.
That's the thing I think it's confusing for us. Your
spirit is the thing that makes it possible for you
to engage with God. That's really who you are, right,
that's really who you were made to be. And the
Bible matter that talks about we must worship God in
(19:02):
spirit because God is a spirit. So that's the part
that allows us to connect to our creator. And that's
the part. Remember in the Book of Genesis when God
said to Adam and Eve, if you eat this fruit,
you will surely die, and Satan goes, You're not going
to die, you know he did. He was playing He
was playing semantics with them. Was it true their bodies
(19:23):
didn't die immediately, Their bodies began dying, but didn't die immediately,
but their spirit, their ability to connect on the spiritual realm,
immediately ended. And so then when you read in First
and Second Corinthians, Paul talks about we are dead in
our sins, right, so God sees us as spiritually dead.
And then he says in First Corinthians, but you were
(19:45):
raised with Christ to walk in a brand new life, right.
And so the power of Jesus resurrection then makes it
possible for my spirit to come alive. And that's what
makes it possible for me to have a relationship with
God throughout eternity. Bod he goes to the grave. Some day,
you're going to get a new body. The Bible says,
a body of flesh and bone is what it says.
(20:06):
Doesn't mention blood, which is interesting. But Paul says, you're
going to receive a body of flesh and bone, and
this new body at the resurrection, we will be caught
up to meet him physical resurrection, and then we will
get a new body, and we will be with him
(20:26):
and we will be like him, for we should see
him as he is is what Paul says.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah. So it says our soul is our mind, our will,
our emotions, and it's actually the Greek word psyche, where
we get our word psychology, and it's the seat of
our thoughts, our feelings, our personality what makes us us right.
And then the scriptures that came up here when I
(20:53):
was looking this up Matthew sixteen twenty six. What good
is it if someone were to gain the whole world
and yet forfeit our soul, that is who we are
as a person right Hebrews four to twelve. The Word
of God is alive and act of dividing the soul
and the spirit and the body, which is the joints
and marrow right, and then's on one O three, Bless
the Lord, oh my soul, and all that he lives
within me. Bless his holy name. So it says, in summary,
(21:16):
the soul is your inner life, your thoughts, desires, emotions.
It's what loves, is what hurts, it's what makes choices.
It's eternal and will live beyond your body's death. But
the spirit, that's again, those are the distinctive things, right,
It's the God conscious part of that's in us. She whiz.
(21:36):
How would you pronounce that? It's a numah?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, numah numah. That's the wind or the or the breath.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, the wind or the breath of God. Which is interesting,
isn't it? Because God breathes life into atom, right, and
then Adam becomes alive.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And that's literally the Greek word used to describe your spirit.
It's almost every time spirit comes up, it's numa.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And that's also interesting because it says that when they
receive the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, it says Jesus.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Breathed on them, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So it's the same, it's it's it's got that in common,
which is interesting. So the scriptures that go along with
the spirit is the human spirit is a lamp of
the Lord that sheds light on one's in most being
Proverbs twenty John four. God is spirit, and the worshippers
must worship him in spirit and in truth. And then
(22:24):
Romans eight sixteen. The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit
that we are God's children. So your spirit is what
becomes alive when you were born again John three six.
Before salvation, the spirit is dead to God Ephesians two
to one. But through Christ is awakened, empowered, and then
sealed by the Holy Spirit and in Ephesians four thirty. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Interesting, So I'm pretty sure I know, Stephen, So this
would be super super useful to you, Steve by Norm
Geisler's Systematic Theology in one volume. Matter of fact, stop
talk to me after church. Someday, I'll just give you one.
But they're like sixteen hundred pages. We give these away
all the time to all of our residents. We give
them away to almost all of our new teaching pastors
(23:06):
and anybody who comes on staff that's coming on as
a pastor. It's one of the things that just kind
of helps put language, clear language, common language among our
staff on our theology. And Norm has an entire section
in there a man and sin and salvation and then
what happens to our spirit in eternity? Right, so those
(23:29):
things so God made us as a trinity, body, soul
and spirit. When we send our spirit immediately died, our
body begins to die. When we die, our soul leaves
our body. And that's when the Book of eccles Era
was it Genesis ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Right,
(23:49):
we go back to the ground, our body goes back
to the ground and we just go back to dirt.
But our soul will live for eternity somewhere if our
spirit is reawakened through Christ and what He did on
the cross, where reawakened to live a new life with Christ,
(24:10):
with the Father Son and Holy Spirit in eternity. That's
what you're envisioning is heaven someday. If your spirit is
not reawakened through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, you have
not received Him as your Holy Spirit, then your soul
spends eternity in hell, eternally, separated from God. Bible describes
torment destruction. So you're going to live forever who you are,
(24:33):
your soul, your personality, who you are, is going to
live forever. The question is is your soul is your
spirit reawakened by God's spirit or not? Do you have
the breath of God in you again or no? And
then in eternity you will be reunited with your body.
Only it'll be perfect. Right, That's what's going to happen.
So that kind of summarizes it all. But if you
(24:55):
want some good reading on it, get that Systematic Theology
and one volume by Norm Geisler and plow through some
of those things pretty great.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Well, hey, that wraps up our time right now, so
hopefully we will see you tomorrow on the Bible Gash
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