August 25, 2025 • 26 mins
Episode 756:
In this episode, Chris and guest host Kyle dive into the powerful story of the woman caught in adultery, found in John chapter 8. Chris and Kyle explore the dramatic scene where the religious leaders bring the woman before Jesus, hoping to trap him into condemning her. They discuss the significance of Jesus' response, "Let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone," highlighting the profound wisdom and grace he demonstrates in this moment.
In this episode, Chris and guest host Kyle dive into the powerful story of the woman caught in adultery, found in John chapter 8. Chris and Kyle explore the dramatic scene where the religious leaders bring the woman before Jesus, hoping to trap him into condemning her. They discuss the significance of Jesus' response, "Let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone," highlighting the profound wisdom and grace he demonstrates in this moment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My name is Chris and I am Kyle.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now, when Wesley fills in for me or Jeff, he
calls it the platinum edition.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Heard that, Yeah, I have yes.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Okay, So Kyle, you are the side who sits in
one of us are out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And so you I'm gonna put you on the spot, right, Kyle?
What edition is it? When you are here in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This dude calling himself the platinum platinum Edition? Doesn't that
seem fitting for Wesley? But for me? I don't know, man,
because he got a radio voice. Yeah, and also like
he just is that guy. He's platinum. He's cool. I
would say. For me, I feel like you and Jeff
are the gold Edition. I'm like the silver Edition. No,
come on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's funny. So you're being out you take the humbler pros.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, I mean I just let what s he be platinum?
I'll take silver.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
That's all right, all right, I'll let you. I'll let
you do it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, hey, everybody, Jeff is in Africa with US many comrades,
and he is having a great time doing mission work
for the Timothy Initiative. And so this week we have
Kyle And so today we are the Bible guys, right,
and we are in the middle of a series famous
sayings of Jesus. Now, this week actually has a theme,
and actually every week you're stuck to a theme, and
(01:22):
this week's theme is Jesus and the Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, And honestly, that's a great theme because I think
that I think a lot of people maybe who will
listen to this or skeptical, this can be a motivational,
inspiring week for them.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
For sure, we look at these stories totally agree. But
before we dive into that, because the saying, by the way,
is neither do I condemn? Is the saying that you know,
Jesus made a famous sing. But before we dive into that,
Desiree has actually given to us a segment that I
really enjoy because it involves a great story that's outlandish,
(01:54):
and I am sort of known to have outlandish stories
at times. Yeah, and so this segment is called I
can't believe that actually happened? And she writes it's been
a while since we've had Kyle with us, so let's
get to know her a little more.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I saw see that the notes her, I'm like, who
is her? Okay, well, and I'm not revealing anything.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, Kyle tell a story that's so weird or random,
people think it's made up, and let's stick away. Let's
try to shy away from her.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, yeah, that was weird. I saw that too, and
I was like, I think that was a hopefully a mistype. Okay,
I can't believe that actually happened. One thing that many
people don't know about me, and it's has a relation
to my family. That's a little strange. So I and
my parents been married for over forty years. They've been
together since they were high school sweethearts. They've been together
the whole my entire life obviously. So I have a
(02:45):
sister who's three years older than me, a brother who's
a year older than me. Then my parents had a
break and having kids. I have a sister who's ten
years younger than me. Then my parents had a crazy
long break, and I have little brothers who are currently
sixteen years old, which means that but what ended up
happening was my parents ended up coming to us on
like a lunch one day and we're like, hey, we
(03:06):
need to meet up. We need to like talk about something.
We thought like there's bad news coming. Turns out my
parents were pregnant again for and then they revealed that
it was not only yea, so my parents, well, my
mom was pregnant, but they're they're pregnant with twins, which
at the same time, Kristen, my wife was pregnant, and
my sister was pregnant and my sister in law. So
think about this, that's uh yeah too, yes, yea, so
(03:27):
my my wife, my sister in law, and my sister
were all pregnant at the same time that my mom
was pregnant with twins. Wow. So my So that means
that my little brothers are uncles to uh, basically my
my daughter who's basically the same age. So it's very strong.
Like the family at AMIC is very strange.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So that when they get older, they'll be talking to
somebody exactly the same age yes, say hey uncle.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, one hundred percent, and they still do it. They'll say, hey,
you got to listen to me. I'm your uncle, even
though they're basically the same age.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So yeah, our family. If you ever, if you were
to see photos of our family, it's a little confusing because, yeah,
they're like, where did the twins come from? Like those
those are my parents' twins. Like it's it's it's strange.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And so you are, how old?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So I'm thirty nine years old? Thirty nine, sixteen year old?
Little brother sixteen year old?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Wow? Ye? How old is your older brother? How many years.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
He's uh, he's one year older than me, oh older brother,
the oldest child? Oh sorry, she is forty two, forty two,
forty two, sixteenth Yeah, no, wild.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Wow, that's a that's a huge spread.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah. So my parents were forty five ish when they
found out that they were pregnant. So whenever I meet
somebody who was like, oh, that ship is sailed, we
can't have kids anymore, I'm like, huh, never saying every
it could happen to you.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
First of all, that's amazing, Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Wow. My mom actually had five boys in the span
of eight years. Wow. And uh, and so that that's
pretty gamm And so Chucky and Donnie are literally like
fifty four weeks apart, and then they took a little
break actually, like it sounds funny to say there's a
break there, then Tommy sort of sits in the middle
by himself. Then there's a four year window. Then then
(04:58):
my brother Jimmy and I were only fifty three weeks apart.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And so back to back, right, So she had two
back to backs and then one in the middle with
some breaks and but still managed to, you know, have
five kids in eight.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Years, five boys. And ed's wild to think about that.
That's probably just loud and broke things broken all the
time in chaos.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
That means there's a decade in pregnancy. Yeah, right. And
I thought about this too. I actually did a funeral.
I officiated a funeral just like probably last week, and
they said this family had nineteen brothers and sisters.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And I thought to myself, I have never I think
that's the largest I've ever heard. Yeah, I said, what
do you mean, like like like natural and like no adoptions.
They said, no, it was natural nineteen Wow. Wow. I
thought those family reunions they're like, oh, we have like
six hundred cousins.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I mean it's all I mean, that's got to be
like thirty years of pregnancy here, right, Like that thirty years, like,
that's got to be right with nineteen kids, there's got
to be some space in there.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Well, that was like the grandmother. So so yeah, by
the time it got down to the kids.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Kids, there's oh my goodness, that's wow, which is amazing.
That's amazing. Yeah. So that's something that is kind of
wild about me to find out that when people actually
my little brother Servetur at our Heritage Church Stony Creek campus.
People when I'll be like, hey, hey brother, hey bro,
they'd be like, wait, those are your brothers. It's it's
kind of it's funny. It's kind of bizarre to see him.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah. Well, Kyle, I agree that I can't believe that
actually happened. It happened, yeah, you know, and you know
what else I can't believe actually happened. What is this
story that we're about to.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Read here is wild?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, the woman caught an adultrey. I can't believe, yes,
that that they threw her in a public square just
to trap Jesus, I can't believe that actually happened.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I can't believe it either, but we're about to read
about it.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well that you know, that's my bad transit.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
All right. Well, hey, we're in John chapter number eighth. Yeah,
I was, I was. I was expecting you to make
fun of my transition.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I thought it was good.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
It was a decent transition.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I can't believe that actually happened. I think it's really good.
I think that's what the people were thinking at the
time too.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
All right.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So in John chapter eight, starting in verse one, says
this Jesus returned to the Mount of Olah. But early
the next morning he was back again at the temple.
A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them.
As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and
the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in
the act of adult tree. They put her in front
of the crowd. Teacher, they said to Jesus, this woman
(07:17):
was caught in the act of adultree. The law of Moses,
says to stone her, what do you say. They were
trying to trap him into saying something they could use
against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the
dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, So
he stood up again and said, all right, but let
the one who has never sinned throw the first stone.
(07:38):
Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust says.
When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one,
beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in
the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus
stood up again and said to the woman, where are
your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you? No life,
(08:00):
she said, And Jesus said, neither do I go and
sin know more. Yeah, period, that's amazing, that's very good. Yeah,
and I believe that actually happened. I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And and it's a good thing that will happened because
there's so many life lessons in here from us. There's
there's a bunch of revelation about the heart of God,
about his view of sin versus, the value of the person,
and everything else. You know, I was just kind of
glancing down. I'm actually not using a life application study
(08:32):
Bible today. I'm using Transformation Study Behind Us by Warren Weersby.
And because I grabbed something off my shelf to be
honest with you, and I really like it. But anyway,
here's here's a note that I thought was interesting in
referring to verse number seven when Jesus said, all right,
but let the one who's never sinned for the first done.
(08:53):
It says this it was required by Jewish law that
the accusers cast the first stones, as found in Deutero
on Me seventeen seven. Jesus was not asking that the
sinless men judge the woman, for he was the only
sinless person present. If our judges today had to be perfect,
judicial benches would be empty. He was referring to the
(09:14):
particular sin of the woman, a sin that could be
committed in the heart as well as in the body.
Matthew five twenty seven through thirty Convicted by their own conscious,
the accusers quietly left the scene, and Jesus was left
alone with the woman. He forgave her and warned them
to sin no more and so again. I think that
it brings light to the fact that they're so It's
(09:36):
so deep Jesus wisdom, he says, he who is without sin,
let them cast the first known. Well, Jesus is the
only wman that sin, Isn't it great?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah? Like even it said that everybody left and he
was the only one standing there. I think it says
he was Yeah, he was the only Jesus left in
the middle of the crowd. So he's like, okay, go
ahead and throw the stone. Then he's just standing there
a homely, you know, by himself, only one who canny.
I agree, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, and then he'sa then neither do I condict? Yeah? Yeah,
so that's incredible. So let's just talk about that for
just a minute. So Jesus is the only one who
has the right to judge. Now, it's interesting because you
just wrote a message this weekend and by the time
people hear this, it'll have been already given. Right, But
you just wrote a message this weekend about forgiveness relating
(10:21):
to being the judge. Yeah, right, So you want to
give us a couple of sentences summary on what does
it say about judging and forgiving?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, so this is going to be talking. It does
talk about Jesus as well at the end for like
a salvation moment, but definitely tomorrow Romans twelve about not
paying evil with evil but instead to bless others. And
I think the end of the day, I think it's
really easy for us want to want to judge others
who want to have payback or retribution for things that
have been wrong to us. And we see time and
(10:51):
time again that Jesus was in the position, the only
position to actually condemn and judge, and yet every single
time he chose to forgive. We see that throughout all
of scripture, and then really at end of the day,
even Jesus himself, when he's on the cross, he said,
forgive them, for they know not what they're doing. Like
even that right there is crazy that he can look
at the very people who are beating him, torturing him,
(11:11):
they're about to kill him, and say, Father, forgive them.
It's a really beautiful picture. But I know for me,
like I think the thing that stands out as well
with this is it's the whole idea of like grace
and truth. I know we tell you guys talk about
this a lot on the podcast, but I think if
you look at it, a lot of I don't know
if you've noticed this as well, a lot of churches,
a lot of Christians kind of fall sometimes in one
or the other camp. There's like a grace camp where
(11:32):
it's like it's all grace, it's all love, it's all forgiveness,
it's all freedom. In that way, you can lean too far,
so it's all grace. Then you have a lot of
other camps where it's like all truth. It's like speak
the truth, say what's reality, call out sin, and there's
there's all those types of things. Jesus we see throughout
his ministry. It's it's like this perfect combination of grace
(11:54):
and truth at the right time, because he says, I mean,
just the fact that he would come and to her
defense is a beautifull picture of his grace. But at
the same time he ends by saying, now go and
sin no more, and to go and sin no more.
I mean we know that. I mean she did go
and sin. We know that, like she she went, I'm
sure and found a way to sin in some way, right,
because nobody is sinless. Yes, she may have not committed
(12:16):
adults that sin, yes, yes, but yeah, of course yeah.
And I think what he was showing there was that like, hey,
like there's this this grace that I want to give you,
but also this truth that we should be pursuing something better.
And I feel like she probably was in a position
where she I would like to believe that she never
committed that sin again because she got to witness the
absolute grace and love of Jesus himself. And so that's
(12:37):
the only way she can go on without sinning is
once she realized the grace and truth you offer.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's a beautiful picture of our obedience. Because you know,
I've often said this, what is better obeying your parents
because you have to, or obeying your parents because you.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Want, oh my gosh, I want to if you don't.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Want to disappoint them, and you love them and respect
them and agree with them, and so they say, hey,
don't do this, and you're like, absolutely, I'm not going
to do that because I love them so much. When
you want to obey something, it takes away what the
chore of obedience. It takes away. In fact, it's not
even difficult at times, because the more you want to,
the less difficult it is to do that thing. Right,
(13:20):
So it's the same thing. So if you're motivated by
gratitude and you're like, hey, Jesus has forgiven me for
all of my sins, and so therefore I'm so grateful
that I want to obey him. So when God does
say these are the things I want you to do.
Here's the commandments, here's what I say about your behavior,
about your marriage, about your family business, the way that
(13:40):
you conduct your relationships. You know, your forgiveness, your reactions,
everything you should say. Absolutely, I want to do those
things because I'm so grateful for God and provides blessed
and everything else. So I think that it's a beautiful picture.
This woman represents us, doesn't she? And so? And just
what you said, it is this idea that she experiences
(14:02):
grace to such a degree to where that is her motivation.
You'd like to think that that's the reason why she's
never committed adultery. And it doesn't say so, it doesn't
tell us, right, we don't know. But and by the way,
that's also that's also a that's a great nuance to
this verse where he says, go and sin no more.
Was Jesus really meaning go and be sinless? No, he
(14:25):
wasn't right, and so go and sin no more? Could
if you want to take it literally, you can say
what Jesus was telling her to be sinless? No, he wasn't.
He was referring to the sin that she was caught.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right, And I think even maybe even holding her like hey,
you are redeemed, you are loved, you are protected now
he's kind of holding her own higher standard. Now, I
always love there's a scripture that says that it's God's
kindness that leads us to repentance. I love that because
even growing up I didn't always think that way. I
thought it was like, you know, the fear of God,
fear of the fear of God least repentance.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Or the fear of the Baptist preacher.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yes, I grew up with me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so when you take that into consideration that it's
actually God's kindness, it's like, like you said, like with
the parenting thing, it's like the kind of like the
wanting to obey versus having to obey. So let me
ask you about the what was written on the sand?
With people ask you that before. I'm sure, Yeah, what
are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So the bottom line is is nobody knows. This is
a stump the passing question. This will definitely be a
question for heaven. And here's the reason why I think
this is so fascinating because I've often heard Jeff say
God doesn't waste words. So every word in the Bible
is reported for a reason. So it goes out of
(15:35):
its way to say certain things, and you'd say, why
does it say that? Well, sometimes it's for context, sometimes
it's for historical accuracy. Sometimes it's you know, to let
us know all these different things. But in this case,
I'm sort of not. I haven't decided why did God
(15:57):
put that in there? Right? Like, why the world did
God say Jesus wrote in the sand? Other than we
know that that played a part in the story. It
played a part in the in the in the dramatization accusation.
It could be that maybe what he was writing was
the law, right, Maybe he was writing something to Deuteronomy, right.
(16:19):
So there's a lot of theory about that, and it
could be that he was.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And again, I know this is speculation, but I've always
had this kind of cool speculation just to wonder what. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Absolutely, and it's it's a great debate among four one Christians. Yes, right,
And so you know you know what I mean by that,
not one on one cotry level two on one's a
little advanced through one four one four one is when
you're diving into the Bible and you're like, hey, let's
let's talk about this. So I think that I think
that in the end that's going to be a popular question,
(16:48):
don't you agree?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I think so too, And I just I find
it interesting that it says that the oldest, and that
was a note that's made in the New Living translation.
It talks about how the oldest left first, Yeah, and
all the way to the youngest. So some so, I've
heard people speculate that there's a possibility that Jesus was
writing the sins of the men that were there and
then they slowly started leaving, or I've even heard because
(17:09):
the oldest life. It could just be that the oldest
had the most life experience, and you want to believe
the most wisdom to just say I'm getting out of here.
Another thought would be that he started off and started
listing certain sins, and those who were the oldest they
felt guilty of those sins because they've been there, done that,
where the youngest felt like righteous and proud of themselves
and then slowly got to like their sins, and then
maybe it's pride or whatever it is, and then they're like, oh,
(17:31):
I guess it's my time.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. Wouldn't it be crazy if we get to heaven
and we find out that Jesus was merely doodling.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, drawing pictures.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, he's just yeah, he's a yeah, drawing pictures or whatever. Yeah,
but maybe he's just you know, doodling in the sand,
and he's just writing something in the sand that has
nothing to do with those things. And so it could
be like a tactic, because Jesus was extremely intentional about
the way he interacted with Pharisees and and so it
could be like, you know, an ignoring kind of a tactic.
(18:00):
You know, they're common, They've they're obviously outraged, right, they've
thrown the woman down and uh, and they're making an
example of her. And and then this story it doesn't
say so, but you could probably assume that that that
they that they probably caught the man as well. That
could be that the man ran off and whatever. But
but we don't see the man being accused. He's just
(18:23):
as guilty of adultery. Uh you know, maybe possibly whatever.
So uh, yeah, he would be Yes, he'd be just
as guilty. Yeah, there's no situation in which she wouldn't
be dealing it, right, Okay, so where is he? Uh
So there's there's that there's also the thing that we
could look at and observe that they didn't let the
(18:44):
woman speak, So they didn't even address her name. They
didn't even say this is so, and so they just
threw the woman down and they said she was caught
in the very act. So the very act needs it's
quite possible that she was indecent, Yes, yes, right, so
she could be naked, humiliated, she could have had a
blanket around her or something, but who knows. So here
(19:05):
she's thrown down in the middle of the courtyard and
seemingly ignored, like the man's not even a part of it.
They don't talk to her, she doesn't speak, they don't
even address her. And all they do is talk to Jesus.
And here she is a bystander on the ground, waiting
for this sentence by these by conspharisees. And and so
you think yourself, man, that's just incredible and so and so,
(19:26):
because they're so heated and they want to trap Jesus,
Jesus could have been doodling and he could have just
had this tactic where they're waiting on his response and
he's like.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Hun, didn't right, yeah, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
And then all of a sudden he stands up and
gives this dramatic answer like he always does. That just
causes them to, you know, their minds are blown. And
then then he stoops back down.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
He's like you right, and they were just like, all right,
I'm dropping a stone.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I've actually thought that often. I've actually thought that
even when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Like he wasn't in a rush to judge. He's just like,
all right, well, and Ron, is that.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The reason why my brain goes there is I'm a
movie guy, and and and I think that maybe sometimes
you know, I play it out in real time. I
try to imagine, like, what was that scene? Like, yeah,
and it could have been that way where they're waiting
anxiously and and and they're surprised that he's not as
upset as they are.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, you know, that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And then he drops the truth bomb y and it
just goes back down to doodling.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah. I just love that, Like you mentioned earlier, God
doesn't waste words, and God doesn't waste his story, and
this story is I'm so thankful it's included in the
Holy scriptures that people are able to read, you know,
every single and have access to because I know this
has been my story at points in life. And I'm sure,
we have many listeners who have had this moment. But
I remember, even early college years, I was a part
of a young adult ministry where I just wasn't I
(20:45):
was new to scripture, I was new to like loving
the person of Jesus and the Bible and whatnot, but
I was still having the old you know, the old
life in me and all those things. And I ended
up doing something pretty stupid actually in my young adult
ministry that honestly thought, well, I'm not going to go
back to that church anymore. I'm not going to go
back to that community of people anymore, because I felt
so condemned, I felt rejected. I felt all the things,
(21:08):
you know, not nearly low what this woman is experiencing,
but some of the same shame of the religiosity. And
so I remember eventually after a few weeks going back
to that church, and then as I've gotten older and
more mature and grown in my faith and understanding of
Jesus Christ, I just realized that there's so many it's
probably millions and millions of people who feel that way.
They feel that shame, they feel like the thing they've
(21:29):
done is like too far, and there's no way Christians
and especially there's no way God could ever forgive them.
And I just love this story for that reason.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, you'd mentioned before that Jesus demonstrates both truth and grace,
and let's talk about that for a minute. So John
chapter one, verse seventeen, Jesus says, Moses brought the law,
but I bring truth and grace. And so he's announcing
that he brings these two dynamics with him. And so
(21:58):
when we say truth, it's hard to see that word
in a negative light. But if you think about it,
anybody can abuse truth. You can't handle the truth right,
So anybody can abuse true things. You know, it could
be hard truth, it could be you know, condemning, judging,
and those things could be true. But just think of this.
(22:20):
Think of the people on Facebook who type in all
caps right, what they're saying isn't necessarily wrong. They could
be right. But you know, as as my friend and
former pastor Andy Stanley once said, what's your goal in life?
Do you you want to be right? Or do you
want to make a different right you want to Do
you want to just be right all the time, or
do you actually want to make a difference in people's
(22:41):
lives with being right, and so there's there's there's a
way to be right and not make a difference and
actually hurt. And so yeah, so you could walk around,
you know, like those old cultured churches that you're talking about.
It could be that a lot of the things that
those kinds of churches say are actually true. Yeah, right,
it's just that they're not leveraging the true in the
right way. It's like it's like the guy on the
(23:02):
on the on the street corner in New York who
preaches the end is coming, but he can't take a
shower or take a bath, and it's like, how how
many converts does he have? A little the total up
carry the zero zero, right, And so it's not necessarily
effective even though that what he might say might actually
be true, right, the end is near. Well yeah, that's
a that's a good truth. Right. So but there's a
(23:25):
way to be effective.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And by the way, I did witness that a few
years back. I remember going and it was in downtown Detroit,
and I heard somebody with the bullhorn type thing preaching,
standing on some soap but type thing, and I remember
everybody just avoided like just a sort like got away.
And I remember just being almost embarrassed to be like
connected to that because I'm like, yeah, there's probably some
truth to what he's saying there, repents, you know, turn
(23:47):
I get all that stuff, But like I was like, man,
I that is not what I what I see with Jesus. Obviously,
you know, John the Baptist had some of those moments,
you know, but at the same time you see it.
Just I remember just being like, this is not something
that should be people should be repulsed by. They should
be on to it.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, that's right. Well, Jesus said, this is how people
will know your disciples, you the way you love one another.
So we leverage the truth in love, which is what
Jesus did. So it's another way to say grace. Grace
is a form of love. And so Jesus is never
going to back down from the truth. So he's going
to say, then go and sin no more. He's going
to say he's against adultery. He's going to say you
(24:23):
know that he hates sin. He's never going to back
down for those truths. But he's going to leverage his relationship,
his power, his authority, his messiah ship, all of that,
his right to be the judge he's leveraging all of that,
and he's extending grace and love. And so it's an
amazing thing to think that Jesus gives both truth and grace. Yes,
(24:46):
and he did it in his interactions oftentimes with people
in the Bible. And guess what he does it to you,
He does it to me. Jesus brings truth and grace.
So if you're out there and you feel sorry for
your sin, guess what, that's a good thing. It's a
good thing to feel guilt for your sin. But God
doesn't intend us to live in guilt after the purpose
of guilt has served itself, because the purpose of guilt
(25:08):
is for us to turn or to repent, and that's
what the word repent means. By the way, just to turn,
to confess means to agree. And so therefore we agree
with God. We turn from our ways, we turn from
our life thinking. And what do we do once guilt
has served its purpose? God never intends us to live
in that guilt. That guilt has served its purpose, and
therefore we drop the guilt, because why the Bible says
(25:28):
in the Book of Romans, there is no condemnation for
those who are in Christ Jesus. So guilt is a
good thing as it turns us to God. That then
guilt then is a bad thing. And so so many
times in our lives have you ever met people like this?
They were guilt as a badge of honor. They punish themselves. Right, Oh,
(25:49):
I deserve to be a miserable person for the bad
things I've done. Well, that's not what God would say.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
No, And I know you probably want to wrap up
when I add one more thought here because you said
condemnation made me think it is your minder that coniction
can come or does come from a holy spirit. That's
a good thing. When you feel convicted of sin, that
is a that should be a good thing, should have
caused you to turn or repent, that's a holy spirit thing.
Condemnation is from the enemy. That's when you're condemning yourself,
somebody else is condemning you. And so I do think
(26:14):
that that's that's a powerful reminder. You know, conviction is
a good thing. Condemnation is not a good That's that's
when you start going down that that that negative path.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So yeah, that's great, that's awesome. That's a great ending thought.
So hey, we will see you next time, hopefully on
the Bible.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Guys, see you, mhm h
You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
My name is Chris and I am Kyle.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Now, when Wesley fills in for me or Jeff, he
calls it the platinum edition.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Heard that, Yeah, I have yes.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Okay, So Kyle, you are the side who sits in
one of us are out.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And so you I'm gonna put you on the spot, right, Kyle?
What edition is it? When you are here in.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
This dude calling himself the platinum platinum Edition? Doesn't that
seem fitting for Wesley? But for me? I don't know, man,
because he got a radio voice. Yeah, and also like
he just is that guy. He's platinum. He's cool. I
would say. For me, I feel like you and Jeff
are the gold Edition. I'm like the silver Edition. No,
come on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's funny. So you're being out you take the humbler pros.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Well, I mean I just let what s he be platinum?
I'll take silver.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
That's all right, all right, I'll let you. I'll let
you do it.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, hey, everybody, Jeff is in Africa with US many comrades,
and he is having a great time doing mission work
for the Timothy Initiative. And so this week we have
Kyle And so today we are the Bible guys, right,
and we are in the middle of a series famous
sayings of Jesus. Now, this week actually has a theme,
and actually every week you're stuck to a theme, and
(01:22):
this week's theme is Jesus and the Outsiders.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, And honestly, that's a great theme because I think
that I think a lot of people maybe who will
listen to this or skeptical, this can be a motivational,
inspiring week for them.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
For sure, we look at these stories totally agree. But
before we dive into that, because the saying, by the way,
is neither do I condemn? Is the saying that you know,
Jesus made a famous sing. But before we dive into that,
Desiree has actually given to us a segment that I
really enjoy because it involves a great story that's outlandish,
(01:54):
and I am sort of known to have outlandish stories
at times. Yeah, and so this segment is called I
can't believe that actually happened? And she writes it's been
a while since we've had Kyle with us, so let's
get to know her a little more.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I saw see that the notes her, I'm like, who
is her? Okay, well, and I'm not revealing anything.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, Kyle tell a story that's so weird or random,
people think it's made up, and let's stick away. Let's
try to shy away from her.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yes, yeah, that was weird. I saw that too, and
I was like, I think that was a hopefully a mistype. Okay,
I can't believe that actually happened. One thing that many
people don't know about me, and it's has a relation
to my family. That's a little strange. So I and
my parents been married for over forty years. They've been
together since they were high school sweethearts. They've been together
the whole my entire life obviously. So I have a
(02:45):
sister who's three years older than me, a brother who's
a year older than me. Then my parents had a
break and having kids. I have a sister who's ten
years younger than me. Then my parents had a crazy
long break, and I have little brothers who are currently
sixteen years old, which means that but what ended up
happening was my parents ended up coming to us on
like a lunch one day and we're like, hey, we
(03:06):
need to meet up. We need to like talk about something.
We thought like there's bad news coming. Turns out my
parents were pregnant again for and then they revealed that
it was not only yea, so my parents, well, my
mom was pregnant, but they're they're pregnant with twins, which
at the same time, Kristen, my wife was pregnant, and
my sister was pregnant and my sister in law. So
think about this, that's uh yeah too, yes, yea, so
(03:27):
my my wife, my sister in law, and my sister
were all pregnant at the same time that my mom
was pregnant with twins. Wow. So my So that means
that my little brothers are uncles to uh, basically my
my daughter who's basically the same age. So it's very strong.
Like the family at AMIC is very strange.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So that when they get older, they'll be talking to
somebody exactly the same age yes, say hey uncle.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yes, one hundred percent, and they still do it. They'll say, hey,
you got to listen to me. I'm your uncle, even
though they're basically the same age.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So yeah, our family. If you ever, if you were
to see photos of our family, it's a little confusing because, yeah,
they're like, where did the twins come from? Like those
those are my parents' twins. Like it's it's it's strange.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
And so you are, how old?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
So I'm thirty nine years old? Thirty nine, sixteen year old?
Little brother sixteen year old?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Wow? Ye? How old is your older brother? How many years.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
He's uh, he's one year older than me, oh older brother,
the oldest child? Oh sorry, she is forty two, forty two,
forty two, sixteenth Yeah, no, wild.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Wow, that's a that's a huge spread.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah. So my parents were forty five ish when they
found out that they were pregnant. So whenever I meet
somebody who was like, oh, that ship is sailed, we
can't have kids anymore, I'm like, huh, never saying every
it could happen to you.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
First of all, that's amazing, Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Wow. My mom actually had five boys in the span
of eight years. Wow. And uh, and so that that's
pretty gamm And so Chucky and Donnie are literally like
fifty four weeks apart, and then they took a little
break actually, like it sounds funny to say there's a
break there, then Tommy sort of sits in the middle
by himself. Then there's a four year window. Then then
(04:58):
my brother Jimmy and I were only fifty three weeks apart.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And so back to back, right, So she had two
back to backs and then one in the middle with
some breaks and but still managed to, you know, have
five kids in eight.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Years, five boys. And ed's wild to think about that.
That's probably just loud and broke things broken all the
time in chaos.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
That means there's a decade in pregnancy. Yeah, right. And
I thought about this too. I actually did a funeral.
I officiated a funeral just like probably last week, and
they said this family had nineteen brothers and sisters.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
And I thought to myself, I have never I think
that's the largest I've ever heard. Yeah, I said, what
do you mean, like like like natural and like no adoptions.
They said, no, it was natural nineteen Wow. Wow. I
thought those family reunions they're like, oh, we have like
six hundred cousins.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I mean it's all I mean, that's got to be
like thirty years of pregnancy here, right, Like that thirty years, like,
that's got to be right with nineteen kids, there's got
to be some space in there.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Well, that was like the grandmother. So so yeah, by
the time it got down to the kids.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Kids, there's oh my goodness, that's wow, which is amazing.
That's amazing. Yeah. So that's something that is kind of
wild about me to find out that when people actually
my little brother Servetur at our Heritage Church Stony Creek campus.
People when I'll be like, hey, hey brother, hey bro,
they'd be like, wait, those are your brothers. It's it's
kind of it's funny. It's kind of bizarre to see him.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah. Well, Kyle, I agree that I can't believe that
actually happened. It happened, yeah, you know, and you know
what else I can't believe actually happened. What is this
story that we're about to.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Read here is wild?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, the woman caught an adultrey. I can't believe, yes,
that that they threw her in a public square just
to trap Jesus, I can't believe that actually happened.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I can't believe it either, but we're about to read
about it.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well that you know, that's my bad transit.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
All right. Well, hey, we're in John chapter number eighth. Yeah,
I was, I was. I was expecting you to make
fun of my transition.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I thought it was good.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
It was a decent transition.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
I can't believe that actually happened. I think it's really good.
I think that's what the people were thinking at the
time too.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
All right.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
So in John chapter eight, starting in verse one, says
this Jesus returned to the Mount of Olah. But early
the next morning he was back again at the temple.
A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them.
As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and
the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in
the act of adult tree. They put her in front
of the crowd. Teacher, they said to Jesus, this woman
(07:17):
was caught in the act of adultree. The law of Moses,
says to stone her, what do you say. They were
trying to trap him into saying something they could use
against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the
dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, So
he stood up again and said, all right, but let
the one who has never sinned throw the first stone.
(07:38):
Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust says.
When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one,
beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in
the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus
stood up again and said to the woman, where are
your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you? No life,
(08:00):
she said, And Jesus said, neither do I go and
sin know more. Yeah, period, that's amazing, that's very good. Yeah,
and I believe that actually happened. I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
And and it's a good thing that will happened because
there's so many life lessons in here from us. There's
there's a bunch of revelation about the heart of God,
about his view of sin versus, the value of the person,
and everything else. You know, I was just kind of
glancing down. I'm actually not using a life application study
(08:32):
Bible today. I'm using Transformation Study Behind Us by Warren Weersby.
And because I grabbed something off my shelf to be
honest with you, and I really like it. But anyway,
here's here's a note that I thought was interesting in
referring to verse number seven when Jesus said, all right,
but let the one who's never sinned for the first done.
(08:53):
It says this it was required by Jewish law that
the accusers cast the first stones, as found in Deutero
on Me seventeen seven. Jesus was not asking that the
sinless men judge the woman, for he was the only
sinless person present. If our judges today had to be perfect,
judicial benches would be empty. He was referring to the
(09:14):
particular sin of the woman, a sin that could be
committed in the heart as well as in the body.
Matthew five twenty seven through thirty Convicted by their own conscious,
the accusers quietly left the scene, and Jesus was left
alone with the woman. He forgave her and warned them
to sin no more and so again. I think that
it brings light to the fact that they're so It's
(09:36):
so deep Jesus wisdom, he says, he who is without sin,
let them cast the first known. Well, Jesus is the
only wman that sin, Isn't it great?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah? Like even it said that everybody left and he
was the only one standing there. I think it says
he was Yeah, he was the only Jesus left in
the middle of the crowd. So he's like, okay, go
ahead and throw the stone. Then he's just standing there
a homely, you know, by himself, only one who canny.
I agree, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, and then he'sa then neither do I condict? Yeah? Yeah,
so that's incredible. So let's just talk about that for
just a minute. So Jesus is the only one who
has the right to judge. Now, it's interesting because you
just wrote a message this weekend and by the time
people hear this, it'll have been already given. Right, But
you just wrote a message this weekend about forgiveness relating
(10:21):
to being the judge. Yeah, right, So you want to
give us a couple of sentences summary on what does
it say about judging and forgiving?
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, so this is going to be talking. It does
talk about Jesus as well at the end for like
a salvation moment, but definitely tomorrow Romans twelve about not
paying evil with evil but instead to bless others. And
I think the end of the day, I think it's
really easy for us want to want to judge others
who want to have payback or retribution for things that
have been wrong to us. And we see time and
(10:51):
time again that Jesus was in the position, the only
position to actually condemn and judge, and yet every single
time he chose to forgive. We see that throughout all
of scripture, and then really at end of the day,
even Jesus himself, when he's on the cross, he said,
forgive them, for they know not what they're doing. Like
even that right there is crazy that he can look
at the very people who are beating him, torturing him,
(11:11):
they're about to kill him, and say, Father, forgive them.
It's a really beautiful picture. But I know for me,
like I think the thing that stands out as well
with this is it's the whole idea of like grace
and truth. I know we tell you guys talk about
this a lot on the podcast, but I think if
you look at it, a lot of I don't know
if you've noticed this as well, a lot of churches,
a lot of Christians kind of fall sometimes in one
or the other camp. There's like a grace camp where
(11:32):
it's like it's all grace, it's all love, it's all forgiveness,
it's all freedom. In that way, you can lean too far,
so it's all grace. Then you have a lot of
other camps where it's like all truth. It's like speak
the truth, say what's reality, call out sin, and there's
there's all those types of things. Jesus we see throughout
his ministry. It's it's like this perfect combination of grace
(11:54):
and truth at the right time, because he says, I mean,
just the fact that he would come and to her
defense is a beautifull picture of his grace. But at
the same time he ends by saying, now go and
sin no more, and to go and sin no more.
I mean we know that. I mean she did go
and sin. We know that, like she she went, I'm
sure and found a way to sin in some way, right,
because nobody is sinless. Yes, she may have not committed
(12:16):
adults that sin, yes, yes, but yeah, of course yeah.
And I think what he was showing there was that like, hey,
like there's this this grace that I want to give you,
but also this truth that we should be pursuing something better.
And I feel like she probably was in a position
where she I would like to believe that she never
committed that sin again because she got to witness the
absolute grace and love of Jesus himself. And so that's
(12:37):
the only way she can go on without sinning is
once she realized the grace and truth you offer.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's a beautiful picture of our obedience. Because you know,
I've often said this, what is better obeying your parents
because you have to, or obeying your parents because you.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Want, oh my gosh, I want to if you don't.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Want to disappoint them, and you love them and respect
them and agree with them, and so they say, hey,
don't do this, and you're like, absolutely, I'm not going
to do that because I love them so much. When
you want to obey something, it takes away what the
chore of obedience. It takes away. In fact, it's not
even difficult at times, because the more you want to,
the less difficult it is to do that thing. Right,
(13:20):
So it's the same thing. So if you're motivated by
gratitude and you're like, hey, Jesus has forgiven me for
all of my sins, and so therefore I'm so grateful
that I want to obey him. So when God does
say these are the things I want you to do.
Here's the commandments, here's what I say about your behavior,
about your marriage, about your family business, the way that
(13:40):
you conduct your relationships. You know, your forgiveness, your reactions,
everything you should say. Absolutely, I want to do those
things because I'm so grateful for God and provides blessed
and everything else. So I think that it's a beautiful picture.
This woman represents us, doesn't she? And so? And just
what you said, it is this idea that she experiences
(14:02):
grace to such a degree to where that is her motivation.
You'd like to think that that's the reason why she's
never committed adultery. And it doesn't say so, it doesn't
tell us, right, we don't know. But and by the way,
that's also that's also a that's a great nuance to
this verse where he says, go and sin no more.
Was Jesus really meaning go and be sinless? No, he
(14:25):
wasn't right, and so go and sin no more? Could
if you want to take it literally, you can say
what Jesus was telling her to be sinless? No, he wasn't.
He was referring to the sin that she was caught.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Right, And I think even maybe even holding her like hey,
you are redeemed, you are loved, you are protected now
he's kind of holding her own higher standard. Now, I
always love there's a scripture that says that it's God's
kindness that leads us to repentance. I love that because
even growing up I didn't always think that way. I
thought it was like, you know, the fear of God,
fear of the fear of God least repentance.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Or the fear of the Baptist preacher.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yes, I grew up with me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so when you take that into consideration that it's
actually God's kindness, it's like, like you said, like with
the parenting thing, it's like the kind of like the
wanting to obey versus having to obey. So let me
ask you about the what was written on the sand?
With people ask you that before. I'm sure, Yeah, what
are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So the bottom line is is nobody knows. This is
a stump the passing question. This will definitely be a
question for heaven. And here's the reason why I think
this is so fascinating because I've often heard Jeff say
God doesn't waste words. So every word in the Bible
is reported for a reason. So it goes out of
(15:35):
its way to say certain things, and you'd say, why
does it say that? Well, sometimes it's for context, sometimes
it's for historical accuracy. Sometimes it's you know, to let
us know all these different things. But in this case,
I'm sort of not. I haven't decided why did God
(15:57):
put that in there? Right? Like, why the world did
God say Jesus wrote in the sand? Other than we
know that that played a part in the story. It
played a part in the in the in the dramatization accusation.
It could be that maybe what he was writing was
the law, right, Maybe he was writing something to Deuteronomy, right.
(16:19):
So there's a lot of theory about that, and it
could be that he was.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
And again, I know this is speculation, but I've always
had this kind of cool speculation just to wonder what. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Absolutely, and it's it's a great debate among four one Christians. Yes, right,
And so you know you know what I mean by that,
not one on one cotry level two on one's a
little advanced through one four one four one is when
you're diving into the Bible and you're like, hey, let's
let's talk about this. So I think that I think
that in the end that's going to be a popular question,
(16:48):
don't you agree?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, I think so too, And I just I find
it interesting that it says that the oldest, and that
was a note that's made in the New Living translation.
It talks about how the oldest left first, Yeah, and
all the way to the youngest. So some so, I've
heard people speculate that there's a possibility that Jesus was
writing the sins of the men that were there and
then they slowly started leaving, or I've even heard because
(17:09):
the oldest life. It could just be that the oldest
had the most life experience, and you want to believe
the most wisdom to just say I'm getting out of here.
Another thought would be that he started off and started
listing certain sins, and those who were the oldest they
felt guilty of those sins because they've been there, done that,
where the youngest felt like righteous and proud of themselves
and then slowly got to like their sins, and then
maybe it's pride or whatever it is, and then they're like, oh,
(17:31):
I guess it's my time.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah. Wouldn't it be crazy if we get to heaven
and we find out that Jesus was merely doodling.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, drawing pictures.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, he's just yeah, he's a yeah, drawing pictures or whatever. Yeah,
but maybe he's just you know, doodling in the sand,
and he's just writing something in the sand that has
nothing to do with those things. And so it could
be like a tactic, because Jesus was extremely intentional about
the way he interacted with Pharisees and and so it
could be like, you know, an ignoring kind of a tactic.
(18:00):
You know, they're common, They've they're obviously outraged, right, they've
thrown the woman down and uh, and they're making an
example of her. And and then this story it doesn't
say so, but you could probably assume that that that
they that they probably caught the man as well. That
could be that the man ran off and whatever. But
but we don't see the man being accused. He's just
(18:23):
as guilty of adultery. Uh you know, maybe possibly whatever.
So uh, yeah, he would be Yes, he'd be just
as guilty. Yeah, there's no situation in which she wouldn't
be dealing it, right, Okay, so where is he? Uh
So there's there's that there's also the thing that we
could look at and observe that they didn't let the
(18:44):
woman speak, So they didn't even address her name. They
didn't even say this is so, and so they just
threw the woman down and they said she was caught
in the very act. So the very act needs it's
quite possible that she was indecent, Yes, yes, right, so
she could be naked, humiliated, she could have had a
blanket around her or something, but who knows. So here
(19:05):
she's thrown down in the middle of the courtyard and
seemingly ignored, like the man's not even a part of it.
They don't talk to her, she doesn't speak, they don't
even address her. And all they do is talk to Jesus.
And here she is a bystander on the ground, waiting
for this sentence by these by conspharisees. And and so
you think yourself, man, that's just incredible and so and so,
(19:26):
because they're so heated and they want to trap Jesus,
Jesus could have been doodling and he could have just
had this tactic where they're waiting on his response and
he's like.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Hun, didn't right, yeah, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
And then all of a sudden he stands up and
gives this dramatic answer like he always does. That just
causes them to, you know, their minds are blown. And
then then he stoops back down.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
He's like you right, and they were just like, all right,
I'm dropping a stone.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I've actually thought that often. I've actually thought that
even when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Like he wasn't in a rush to judge. He's just like,
all right, well, and Ron, is that.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The reason why my brain goes there is I'm a
movie guy, and and and I think that maybe sometimes
you know, I play it out in real time. I
try to imagine, like, what was that scene? Like, yeah,
and it could have been that way where they're waiting
anxiously and and and they're surprised that he's not as
upset as they are.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, you know, that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And then he drops the truth bomb y and it
just goes back down to doodling.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah. I just love that, Like you mentioned earlier, God
doesn't waste words, and God doesn't waste his story, and
this story is I'm so thankful it's included in the
Holy scriptures that people are able to read, you know,
every single and have access to because I know this
has been my story at points in life. And I'm sure,
we have many listeners who have had this moment. But
I remember, even early college years, I was a part
of a young adult ministry where I just wasn't I
(20:45):
was new to scripture, I was new to like loving
the person of Jesus and the Bible and whatnot, but
I was still having the old you know, the old
life in me and all those things. And I ended
up doing something pretty stupid actually in my young adult
ministry that honestly thought, well, I'm not going to go
back to that church anymore. I'm not going to go
back to that community of people anymore, because I felt
so condemned, I felt rejected. I felt all the things,
(21:08):
you know, not nearly low what this woman is experiencing,
but some of the same shame of the religiosity. And
so I remember eventually after a few weeks going back
to that church, and then as I've gotten older and
more mature and grown in my faith and understanding of
Jesus Christ, I just realized that there's so many it's
probably millions and millions of people who feel that way.
They feel that shame, they feel like the thing they've
(21:29):
done is like too far, and there's no way Christians
and especially there's no way God could ever forgive them.
And I just love this story for that reason.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, you'd mentioned before that Jesus demonstrates both truth and grace,
and let's talk about that for a minute. So John
chapter one, verse seventeen, Jesus says, Moses brought the law,
but I bring truth and grace. And so he's announcing
that he brings these two dynamics with him. And so
(21:58):
when we say truth, it's hard to see that word
in a negative light. But if you think about it,
anybody can abuse truth. You can't handle the truth right,
So anybody can abuse true things. You know, it could
be hard truth, it could be you know, condemning, judging,
and those things could be true. But just think of this.
(22:20):
Think of the people on Facebook who type in all
caps right, what they're saying isn't necessarily wrong. They could
be right. But you know, as as my friend and
former pastor Andy Stanley once said, what's your goal in life?
Do you you want to be right? Or do you
want to make a different right you want to Do
you want to just be right all the time, or
do you actually want to make a difference in people's
(22:41):
lives with being right, and so there's there's there's a
way to be right and not make a difference and
actually hurt. And so yeah, so you could walk around,
you know, like those old cultured churches that you're talking about.
It could be that a lot of the things that
those kinds of churches say are actually true. Yeah, right,
it's just that they're not leveraging the true in the
right way. It's like it's like the guy on the
(23:02):
on the on the street corner in New York who
preaches the end is coming, but he can't take a
shower or take a bath, and it's like, how how
many converts does he have? A little the total up
carry the zero zero, right, And so it's not necessarily
effective even though that what he might say might actually
be true, right, the end is near. Well yeah, that's
a that's a good truth. Right. So but there's a
(23:25):
way to be effective.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
And by the way, I did witness that a few
years back. I remember going and it was in downtown Detroit,
and I heard somebody with the bullhorn type thing preaching,
standing on some soap but type thing, and I remember
everybody just avoided like just a sort like got away.
And I remember just being almost embarrassed to be like
connected to that because I'm like, yeah, there's probably some
truth to what he's saying there, repents, you know, turn
(23:47):
I get all that stuff, But like I was like, man,
I that is not what I what I see with Jesus. Obviously,
you know, John the Baptist had some of those moments,
you know, but at the same time you see it.
Just I remember just being like, this is not something
that should be people should be repulsed by. They should
be on to it.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, that's right. Well, Jesus said, this is how people
will know your disciples, you the way you love one another.
So we leverage the truth in love, which is what
Jesus did. So it's another way to say grace. Grace
is a form of love. And so Jesus is never
going to back down from the truth. So he's going
to say, then go and sin no more. He's going
to say he's against adultery. He's going to say you
(24:23):
know that he hates sin. He's never going to back
down for those truths. But he's going to leverage his relationship,
his power, his authority, his messiah ship, all of that,
his right to be the judge he's leveraging all of that,
and he's extending grace and love. And so it's an
amazing thing to think that Jesus gives both truth and grace. Yes,
(24:46):
and he did it in his interactions oftentimes with people
in the Bible. And guess what he does it to you,
He does it to me. Jesus brings truth and grace.
So if you're out there and you feel sorry for
your sin, guess what, that's a good thing. It's a
good thing to feel guilt for your sin. But God
doesn't intend us to live in guilt after the purpose
of guilt has served itself, because the purpose of guilt
(25:08):
is for us to turn or to repent, and that's
what the word repent means. By the way, just to turn,
to confess means to agree. And so therefore we agree
with God. We turn from our ways, we turn from
our life thinking. And what do we do once guilt
has served its purpose? God never intends us to live
in that guilt. That guilt has served its purpose, and
therefore we drop the guilt, because why the Bible says
(25:28):
in the Book of Romans, there is no condemnation for
those who are in Christ Jesus. So guilt is a
good thing as it turns us to God. That then
guilt then is a bad thing. And so so many
times in our lives have you ever met people like this?
They were guilt as a badge of honor. They punish themselves. Right, Oh,
(25:49):
I deserve to be a miserable person for the bad
things I've done. Well, that's not what God would say.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
No, And I know you probably want to wrap up
when I add one more thought here because you said
condemnation made me think it is your minder that coniction
can come or does come from a holy spirit. That's
a good thing. When you feel convicted of sin, that
is a that should be a good thing, should have
caused you to turn or repent, that's a holy spirit thing.
Condemnation is from the enemy. That's when you're condemning yourself,
somebody else is condemning you. And so I do think
(26:14):
that that's that's a powerful reminder. You know, conviction is
a good thing. Condemnation is not a good That's that's
when you start going down that that that negative path.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So yeah, that's great, that's awesome. That's a great ending thought.
So hey, we will see you next time, hopefully on
the Bible.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Guys, see you, mhm h
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.