October 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Episode 795:
In this episode, we dive into a lively discussion that blends humor, theology, and practical insights about prayer and the formation of the Bible. We answer 2 questions from a listener, one which asks the question, "When I pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?" The second question asks "Who put the Bible together, and who decided which books would go where?"
In this episode, we dive into a lively discussion that blends humor, theology, and practical insights about prayer and the formation of the Bible. We answer 2 questions from a listener, one which asks the question, "When I pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?" The second question asks "Who put the Bible together, and who decided which books would go where?"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Friday with
the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's so good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So we're shooting. We're shooting these episodes, and we're on
the last one for this week. Yes, and this whole time,
your wife has been blowing up your phone.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
She has just said that bird started. The reason why
is because technically we're shooting this on a Wednesday. Yeah,
and I have a small group in a couple of hours.
So my wife is saying, Hey, we're buying pizza. I
need two bags of ice when you come home. Don't
forget this, do this.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
And then it was so also it was multitasking during
this episode, is what I'm saying. Yes, he's putting together
shopping list. I gotta get ice or Liz is gonna
be mad at me. So, Hi, Liz, I just want
you to know Chris is being very dedicated to making
sure he's getting prepared for By the way, for a smallgret,
are you doing small group this week? We're not. I'm
traveling too, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So the uh so, last week was you on video.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
You oh yeah, yeah, me and Bony, but.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
This week is myself on video. So I'm going to
be teaching the group and then I'm gonna say, hey,
now watch this video and be Liz and I and
I feel pretty weird about that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I did it in the in January, you know, the winter.
This semester that we did, I had all like, uh know,
eighteen young adults all which is so it was weird
because we put on the video of me talking and
then I'd have to talk.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's almost exactly what we have.
We have twenty one in our group. If everybody shows
yeah right, that was the same thing for yeah, and
then and then we have young adults. It's fun, It's
very fun. So we are wrapping up our series that
we promised to do, which is called Stump the Pastor.
And if you want to write in a question every
(01:48):
day we've been saying, please email us at info at
the Bible guys dot com, or just comment on a
YouTube page or something like that where you're able to
post comments if you have any question at all, We
would love to get there for future episodes. Good yeah,
and so we want to jump into the first question.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sounds good to me, okay, So here.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Is the first stump the pastor question. It says, when
I pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?
This is by the way, Mike G. Did I already
say that?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I know you didn't, Hi, mike G.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Hi, Mike G. And by the way, I don't. It
looks like you've had a scripture reference there. But can
I tackle this one?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Oh? Please?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So this is something that I have always paid attention to.
So a couple episodes ago, during this week, we talked
about I said, I think it was on Monday, and
I actually said, has anybody ever asked you to bless
this item?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Right, that's right, and it's I said, that's a whole
other conversation altogether.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I remember being in conversation a very long time ago
with a Bible professor and we had these great debates
in classroom, and there were several things that stood out,
and just for fun, I'll just give you one that's
not this question. Then I'll lead it to my question.
So did you know that nowhere in the New Testament
(03:12):
that does Jesus ever say bless this food, nor is
there any object being blessed. Right, So the Bible tells
us that every blessing has been given. So in the
Old Testament they would they would bless items, there would
be things that be blessed. But the New Testament that
has done away with because every blessing is given, and
when Jesus prayed for food, he never said, bless this food.
(03:34):
So therefore, if there's not blessed items, and and everything
is blessed, then that means that there is no such
thing technically theologically right as blessed food and unblessed food.
There's no such thing. So to say something is unblessed.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What did you mean by every blessing has been given?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, Jesus gives us blessings freely, so so there's there's
if every blessing has been given and not to mention.
Uh again, we're talking about something, a thing, whether it
be food or whether it be an object. Uh, is
there there's no blessed object in the New Testament, right,
(04:17):
So it's sort of two things. So Jesus, Jesus says
blessings are given freely, and then also there's no blessed objects,
so there's there's there's nothing that's unblessed and blessed. So
those two things combined, and actually three things combined.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I think, what do you mean by the word blessed.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, again, that's that's the thing we pray. We say
God blessed this food, right, indicating that it's not blessed.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And so then then the third thing combined would be
the fact that Jesus never asked God to bless any food.
Every time he prayed for food, he said thank you,
thank you for.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
The food, for the food food.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Anyway, all that to say, I just remember this big
conversation in this in this uh you know, in this
uh Bible it's debate where the professor says, theologically, I'm
not going to ever really correct you if you say
God bless this food. But technically there's no such thing
as unblessed food and blessed food. So you don't have
(05:14):
to pray for for anybody to bless your food because
it's not unblessed. And he says, so, so playing praying
for blessed this food is actually something that uh, that's irrelevant,
and so it's and so and actually it was it's
in the category of things we pray. That's wrong, right, Yeah,
so that's what do you think about that? By the way,
(05:36):
it's not it's not it's it's not one of our topics.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'm reading along that way
because it's it's you know, how should you pray the Lord?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I think that. You know, when you're saying, bless
this food to my body is a different thing than
That's why I was asking you, what do you what
do you mean by the word blessing?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, it is like put your magic pixie dust on
it and make it special.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, is that what you're thinking, is blessing? I think
I think you're asking I think you're saying that from
like a Catholic perspective of blessing a thing. Oh yes, yeah,
as opposed to us how I grew up. Yeah, as
opposed to the word bless it. Blessed just means the
favor of God. That's all it means. So blessed are
you in fath favor? Blessed are the poor and spirit?
(06:19):
He says happy. That's what the word blessed means. When
Jesus talked about blessed, is this happy?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, that's not what we pray. When we say bless
the food, we don't say happy make the food, and
we certainly don't say give the favor of God on
this oatmeal.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, so I think you think that you're praying a
blessing on the food as opposed to most people say
bless this food to my body.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, yes, food period, to my body, as the application.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Gives supernatural favor to this food and to my body
in this moment, as opposed to just natural consumption of
the food. I think that's what that's that's the request.
Nothing inappropriate about it.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I've opened up a big can of worm shitting. So
so I would say I still adhere to the fact
that UH, praying blessing over the food is unnecessary and uh,
and and and I could maybe I'll come back around
and and and qualify that. And then and then another
thing was is UH. And I remember specifically talking about
(07:15):
UH everywhere in the New Testament and in the Old
Testament even it talks about the fact that Jesus's purpose
is to reconcile us with a relationship with our heavenly Father.
And every time that we pray, we pray to the
heavenly Father. Every time Jesus prayed, he played to the Father.
Every time that there is a prayer given, it's to
the Father, and it's through Jesus. Jesus the mediator who
(07:39):
stands between God and man. Right, Jesus the reconciler, the
one who brings us back to the to the relationship
that is broken in the garden of Eden, which is
the Father. The fact that God the Father is the
one who has the will for us, that's his role
and you know, in in his personhood. So I always say,
(08:00):
I'm not going to correct you. If you pray to Jesus,
that's not a big deal because after all, we serve
one God in three persons, God the Father's son, Holy
Spirit right trindly, so he's still God. But theologically you're
supposed to pray to the Father through Jesus Christ or
(08:25):
in Jesus name, because Jesus is the bringer of us
to God the Father. And then of course the Holy
Spirit's job is the interpreter of those prayers. So the
Spirit is the one who brings the prayer and communicates
the prayer to the Father, and Jesus makes it possible
for us to pray to the Father.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, So the word theologically would imply the right way, right,
this is what God commands. And I don't think that
that's true.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I didn't necessarily attach it to a command. I always
thought logically meant the theology of the belief.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I would say biblically, because there's different theologies. That's
what I'm saying, so biblically, Yeah, yeah, that's it's not
so biblically. Yeah, I can't think of Are there any
verses that are there any prayers in the Bible that
aren't to the Father but are to the Spirit, say,
(09:22):
or to the to the Son.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I think the answer is no. I could pretty confidently
say me, search it. If you find one, I'm gonna be.
I'm gonna be. Yeah, well, I tie with my hat
in hand.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But I was going to say, I often will pray
to the Holy Spirit or to Jesus, which again is
not inappropriate. It's not in a prose, not forbidden, that's correct.
But what you're saying is all the prayers wind up
being directed to the Father anyways, because it's it's his will.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm saying that. I think prayers are intended for the Father.
I think that's what the Bible indicates in every turn
when it talks about praying, and then even when it
talks about uh again, the role of the Father is
the one that we should pray too because of his role.
(10:13):
Oh oh oh, no, did you find one? Yeah? Is
it New Testament or Old Testament?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
New Testament?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay? Sure.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, Lord Jesus received my spirit.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So he did pray.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
He did pray. Yeah. Well, I mean so that one's
unmistakably directed at Jesus.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah. But in all defense, though, he was actually looking
at Jesus when he said it, right, So in uh,
this is not a little exception. He was looking to Jesus,
is literally standing and staring.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
At but he's still praying to Jesus. Jesus. No, no, no, no,
asked my father. Okay, Jesus didn't do that here, Hey,
don't because he's standing on the right. Oh, talk to me,
talk to him right right? Uh? Paul In two Corinthians
twelve three times he begged the Lord to take away
history in the flesh. And that's the lord is. It's
(11:07):
in the Greek is Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's what that means. In the Greek Lord capital l
is Jesus always.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So it says here Lord refers to Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Wait a minute, the Lord in the Old Testament capital
l is God the Father.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, but he's the King of kings and Lord of
lords in the New Testament.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Question that I'm scared to look it up. A skeptical
on that one.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, And then Revelation twenty two twenty ends with even
so come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well is that a prayer?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Sure? What, I'm ringing your bill? Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So so Stephen Stephen's the is the is the monkey
in the rest the wrench?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Rench?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah? And Rome Is ten thirteen is quoting Joel And
I think that one is pointing at Jesus. Everyone who
calls in the name of the Lord will be saved, right,
because it's in direct connection to the verses just before it,
where it says you have to believe that he rose
again and invite him to be and declare that he
is Lord. And I's talking about Jesus, that's not about
(12:11):
anybody else. And everyone who calls them the name of
the Lord will be saying interesting. Yeah, I've never read
it that way.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I've always always read it. Believe in Jesus, who
the Lord said, and then call upon the name of
the Lord. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, anyways in life, but I don't mean to because
I think I think fundamentally you're right. Fundamentally, the huge
majority of prayers are to the Father. It's just not inappropriate.
And it's not even poor theology to pray to Jesus
in appropriate moments, or pray to the Holy Spirit because
Stephen did, yeah, or pray to the Holy Spirit, and
(12:48):
so it's not inappropriate. It's just theologically consistently in the Bible.
The Father is the one from whom the will comes.
Even Jesus said, not my will, but your will be done.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, you know what's so interesting is how many years
have you been graduated? Have you graduated from Bible College?
What year did you graduate? Ninety ninety seven, so uh so, yeah,
so I graduated a few years earlier than that, and
so that's been over thirty years. And I still remembered
that conversation.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, blew your mind.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah. At the time, I remember, I wrote.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Catholic kid, come in here and suddenly find out what what?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I remember being in that
room and everybody having this conversation, and I remember thinking
to myself, and to be honest with you, even even
now as I'm saying this, I think the ammunition of
some of the students in the room most likely was
quoting Steven in Act chapter seven, right. So I remember
(13:46):
watching the professor rebuttal back and forth and back and forth,
and then ultimately the whole room concluded that you know
that that was you know that we were meant to
pray to God the Father. But I'm not sure I've
ever thought about it since then, because again, like I said,
I'm not the theology deep dive, you know, or Bible
(14:10):
deep dive, because I'm not sure that it's really mattered. No, yeah,
it's not mattered.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that ten thirteen, this is where I got hung up.
So I didn't think of the Stephen part yep, but
Romans because I quoted every Sunday. He says, if you
confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and you
believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. For with the heart one believes
(14:37):
under righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So declaring him Lord with your mouth, it's part of that,
and then he says, for whoever calls on the name
of the Lord shall be saved. So you've defined that
Jesus is the Lord. So you're calling on Jesus for salvation, right, right.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So that is and that's indicat through prayer. You call
on you call on God through.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Any time you talk to God, it's a prayer. Yeah, Father,
son or Holy Spirit, it's a prayer. Yeah, yeah, right,
But I think it's appropriate. There been times when when
I was going to in this situation and I'd be like,
Holy Spirit, remind me of what the Word says in
this situation, give me wisdom and discernment in this situation.
And that's an appropriate thing, right, give me your spirit
(15:22):
to to do, because that's his job. His job is
to teach us and to remind us. That's what Jesus said.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right. There's been times when I prayed that the Holy
Spirit would comfort somebody who was going through pain, and
I wouldn't just send say God, you know, Father, send
your spirit. I would just ask the Holy Spirit to
comfort that person because that's what that's his job, that's
what he does.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think I would actually pray, Father, send your spirit.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, but he's already sent a spirit. We already have
a spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
No, I know that.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I'm just saying, oh, well, theologically, yeah, help me. You
doesn't have to send the spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
No, I know, I don't believe in spirit already here
we have all the Holy Spirit will ever get.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah, so I started there, so has a Holy
Spirit to comfort comfort them. Because if the Holy Spirit
is the one sending the message, bringing the prayer, yeah,
then you just short circuit that and he doesn't have
to get all the way there and back again. Yeah
I'm joking, he's already here. But yeah, so that's really good. Anyway,
let's go.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Back there and back. And yet I didn't even catch
it's joking.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So so uh man, I'm not trying to throw a
monkey wrench in there. I just I like that every
idea that comes up, that's a new idea to me.
I like the probit as much as possible, and the
Bible is going to prove the Bible to be honest.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think people appreciate these kind of debates more than anything.
In fact, my son in law, who sometimes listens in
uh in Florida, he says that the most compelling times
is when we have a discussion and say like, hey,
what do you think. I don't know, I think, and
(16:55):
we sort of either have different opinions or sorting it out,
or it's it's us breaking down what other people think,
which is like a stump to Pastard question.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, sure, yeah, so I think fundamentally you are correct,
because the will of God is what we're praying for
every time, healing, strength, to share the Gospel with a friend, whatever, all,
We're always praying for God's will. And so it's consistent
as Jesus said, your will be done on earth as
it is in heaven. Nevertheless, not my will, but your
will be done that that's always appropriate, and the will
(17:28):
of God, the Father always comes comes to be. And
then Jesus is one who fulfilled the will of the Father,
and the Holy Spirit's the one who who empowers us.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I almost forgot. We have another Bible question.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, stump pastor, Well, so finish that question though. What
was that question?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The first one? Yeah, when I pray to when I
pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah? Okay, yeah, so yeah, that's it. So when you
pray to the Lord, you are praying to Jesus, And
what you're saying is it's Jesus would pray to the Father,
and that's mostly how all the prayers would go, would
be the Father. But it's not inappropriate to pray to
the Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Okay. And then the next question is who put the
Bible together, not just the authors, but who decided which
book would go where? Wow, holy cow, Now you said,
I remember one time being in your office and we
were having this conversation and you had a really good
(18:31):
insight about this. So I'm just going to hand this
to you to tackle it, and I'll chime in, Okay,
because I could. I could definitely hang with the best
of them. When it comes to the Bible says over
twenty six hundred times it claims divine inspiration of itself,
and three thousand, eight hundred and eight times it talks
about how even though it was written by human authors,
(18:54):
it was not from any No origin of the scriptures
came from the human author right. It was God breathed
through yes, yes, And they were actually distinctively writing the
words of God. And it actually claims to be the
God breathe or God's breath or the very words of God.
So I could definitely hang on that end.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's hysterical. I had some notes for this one, yeah,
and my iPad just went dead. Yeah, so let's do
it this way. So what he's asking is, I'm assuming
he believes the Bible is God's word, But how did
we get it right? Because you're right, the Bible affirms
over and over and over again that we're not hearing
(19:36):
from men. We're hearing men bring God's words that God
gave to them. So that's a big part of it.
The thirty seven books of the Old Testament were established
four hundred years before Jesus. That the rabbis and the
top leaders of Israel had sorted through all of the
(20:01):
books and they had certain requirements with regard to how
do we know if this is validly from God? Is
it inspired by God? And those thirty seven books were
established four hundred years before Jesus. And that's what we
would call the Old Testament. It's what the it's what
is the Hebrew Bible. And by the way those were called,
(20:26):
those were called the Lord's It thirty nine. I'm sorry
what I say? Seven, Okay, I I have my notes
in front me. Yep. The thirty nine books yeah, you're right,
because there's twenty seven New Testament books, right, So the
thirty nine Old Testament books those were called in the
(20:46):
four hundred years before Jesus, they were called the Law
and the Prophets. That's what they were called. So they
didn't go around calling talking about the Bible. Right, the
Hebrew people, the Israelite people, the Jewish people did not
say so were studying the Bible today, they would have
the Torah, that'd be the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Sexis, Viticus,
numbers in Deuteronomy. They would have those books. They've talked
(21:10):
about the Torah everything else. They talked about the Law
and the Prophets, and it was their phrase. So when
Jesus is teaching, Jesus knew about the thirty nine books
that all the rabbis taught from that they referred to
it as the law in the prophets. When they come
to Jesus and they say, these lawyers come to Jesus
(21:32):
and say, Jesus, what is the most important commandment from God?
Jesus's will love the Lord your God with all your heart,
always saw all your mind and all your strength. And
the second is just like it, love your neighbors, yourself,
and these two commandments fulfill all the law and the prophets.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, ya, he says, all the law and prophets hang
on these two capers.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes, So he says that. So Jesus not only affirms
the fact that the most important thing God wanted us
to know from those first thirty nine books is love God,
love people, but then he also affirms the validity of
those thirty nine books because he called them by what
they called them. He wasn't like the law and the
prophets and some other books right, or some of the
(22:14):
law and the prophets. He doesn't do that. He affirms
all of the law and the prophets. So we can,
under the authority of Jesus say the thirty nine books
that had been established in the Old Testament are legitimate.
Jesus views those of God's words. Those are God's words.
So then that leaves us with the twenty six or
twenty seven books in the New Testament. There were a
(22:36):
few different rules. All of them were written between forty
five AD and one hundred AD. So from Matthew to Revelation,
everything that Paul wrote, Mark Luke, John Jude James, the
author of Hebrews, They Peter. All those books were written
(22:57):
between forty five AD and one hundred AD, and they
were already being circulated among all the churches. The churches
were using them. There were other books floating around, but
for the most part, it was these and the rules
that they established in that first one hundred and fifty
years of Christianity. Was was it written by an eyewitness?
(23:22):
Was it written claimed to be written under the authority
of the Holy Spirit, the inspirational Holy Spirit? Does it
have an apostolic connection in some way, the Apostles being
Peter James, John right, the Disciples Paul Also, does it
have some connection directly to an apostle? Mark was not
(23:43):
an apostle, but he was Peter's secretary, right, So you
have that. So was it connected to the Apostles? And
then did the Apostles affirm the other writings? Did they
quote from them, did they refer to them, did they
teach them? Or did the apostles initial group of disciples
quote them? So that gets you within one hundred years
(24:05):
of Jesus right, If the disciples of the Apostles are
quoting these other books, and what's really a phenomenal is
before the two fifties. We can recreate from the writings
of the ancient church fathers. We can recreate almost the
entire New Testament from their own writings quoting the New Testament.
(24:25):
But the New Testament was not codified these twenty nine
books only until three forty I think it was three
hundred maybe at the the the Council of Carthage. I
should look that up. It might be two forty ad.
Let me look it up. The Council of Carthage. And
(24:48):
the Council of Carthage is when they determined, okay, these
twenty nine books three ninety seven ady, and it was
in what is now modern day Tunisia, and they got
together and they determined all twenty nine or twenty seven
books of the New Testament. They verified, yes, we still
(25:11):
believe in the thirty nine books of the Old Testament.
And they were able to rebuild all of this. And
you can do it even apart from the Bible. You
can redo it, rebuild it from those first disciples, after
the disciples, quoting each other's books. And so this is
one of the things that you could recognize that they
recognize the scripture. It's interesting. Paul refers to some of
(25:34):
Peter's writings as scripture, right, so even at that point
they were recognizing it. So some people would say, oh, well,
the Bible wasn't codified until the Catholics did it, and
you know the Council on Ica or whatever, Well they
did it before that, and at the Council of Carthage,
and then they'll say, oh, it was men that made
these choices. All they were doing was verifying whether or
not all of the earliest believers, the walkers with Jesus,
(25:57):
believed that these other writings were truly from God, and
that's what they did. So then when you it'll come up,
like if you ever watch on the Discovery Channel or something,
they say, oh, what about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene
or the Gospel of Judas or whatever. There are no
historical references to those until hundreds of years after they
were claimed to be written. And yet within less than
(26:21):
one hundred years of Jesus, within sixty years of the
Book of Mark being written, they were already verifying that
that's the Book of Mark. And it's hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of years later, hundreds of years later before
you get to anything like the Gospel of mag Magdalene,
Gospel of Judas, and those books were widely disregarded even
(26:43):
by the first people who had a chance to see them,
let alone the earliest apostles never saw them because they
didn't exist. So that's my little speech on that. If
you were wondering, yes, sir, I remember that cover what
you were thinking about it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Because you have a lot of knowledge when it comes
to that, and I knew that you sort of knew that,
like I would never be able to come up with that,
and I certainly didn't. If I would have known that
that was gonna be the question, I could have certainly
researched that well.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So the here's what I say, because we've gone just
a little bit long on this. If you're curious about it,
Norm Geisler, just look up Norm Geisler's best books on
how we got the Bible. He's got one called From
God to Us. He's got a couple of others where
he really digs into the history of it. It's academic.
You're gonna have to work through it. It's pretty amazing.
(27:29):
And then any of the books by Lee Strobel, you
can start to dig in and he recommends, you know,
case for Christ, the case for the real Jesus, the
case for a creator, all these things. Any of those
he digs into how can we trust scripture, particularly the
case for Christ? So either of those books be great.
And then lastly, let me say, Josh and Norm McDowell
wrote a book called Unshakable Truth and they dig in
(27:52):
pretty deeply, but it's simple to read. They dig in
pretty deeply on how can we know that we have
the Word of God today?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That's great, Yeah, that is definitely our time. That's one
of the longest ever.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Congratulations, it's the loonest episode on a Friday alright.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
In fact, if I wait six more seconds, we'll go
in the twenty eight mark. That'll be a record.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Okay, And here we go and twenty minutes good bye.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
See letter
You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome, Welcome, Welcome to Friday with
the Bible Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's so good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So we're shooting. We're shooting these episodes, and we're on
the last one for this week. Yes, and this whole time,
your wife has been blowing up your phone.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
She has just said that bird started. The reason why
is because technically we're shooting this on a Wednesday. Yeah,
and I have a small group in a couple of hours.
So my wife is saying, Hey, we're buying pizza. I
need two bags of ice when you come home. Don't
forget this, do this.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
And then it was so also it was multitasking during
this episode, is what I'm saying. Yes, he's putting together
shopping list. I gotta get ice or Liz is gonna
be mad at me. So, Hi, Liz, I just want
you to know Chris is being very dedicated to making
sure he's getting prepared for By the way, for a smallgret,
are you doing small group this week? We're not. I'm
traveling too, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So the uh so, last week was you on video.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
You oh yeah, yeah, me and Bony, but.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
This week is myself on video. So I'm going to
be teaching the group and then I'm gonna say, hey,
now watch this video and be Liz and I and
I feel pretty weird about that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I did it in the in January, you know, the winter.
This semester that we did, I had all like, uh know,
eighteen young adults all which is so it was weird
because we put on the video of me talking and
then I'd have to talk.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's almost exactly what we have.
We have twenty one in our group. If everybody shows
yeah right, that was the same thing for yeah, and
then and then we have young adults. It's fun, It's
very fun. So we are wrapping up our series that
we promised to do, which is called Stump the Pastor.
And if you want to write in a question every
(01:48):
day we've been saying, please email us at info at
the Bible guys dot com, or just comment on a
YouTube page or something like that where you're able to
post comments if you have any question at all, We
would love to get there for future episodes. Good yeah,
and so we want to jump into the first question.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sounds good to me, okay, So here.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Is the first stump the pastor question. It says, when
I pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?
This is by the way, Mike G. Did I already
say that?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I know you didn't, Hi, mike G.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Hi, Mike G. And by the way, I don't. It
looks like you've had a scripture reference there. But can
I tackle this one?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Oh? Please?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So this is something that I have always paid attention to.
So a couple episodes ago, during this week, we talked
about I said, I think it was on Monday, and
I actually said, has anybody ever asked you to bless
this item?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Right, that's right, and it's I said, that's a whole
other conversation altogether.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I remember being in conversation a very long time ago
with a Bible professor and we had these great debates
in classroom, and there were several things that stood out,
and just for fun, I'll just give you one that's
not this question. Then I'll lead it to my question.
So did you know that nowhere in the New Testament
(03:12):
that does Jesus ever say bless this food, nor is
there any object being blessed. Right, So the Bible tells
us that every blessing has been given. So in the
Old Testament they would they would bless items, there would
be things that be blessed. But the New Testament that
has done away with because every blessing is given, and
when Jesus prayed for food, he never said, bless this food.
(03:34):
So therefore, if there's not blessed items, and and everything
is blessed, then that means that there is no such
thing technically theologically right as blessed food and unblessed food.
There's no such thing. So to say something is unblessed.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
What did you mean by every blessing has been given?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, Jesus gives us blessings freely, so so there's there's
if every blessing has been given and not to mention.
Uh again, we're talking about something, a thing, whether it
be food or whether it be an object. Uh, is
there there's no blessed object in the New Testament, right,
(04:17):
So it's sort of two things. So Jesus, Jesus says
blessings are given freely, and then also there's no blessed objects,
so there's there's there's nothing that's unblessed and blessed. So
those two things combined, and actually three things combined.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I think, what do you mean by the word blessed.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, again, that's that's the thing we pray. We say
God blessed this food, right, indicating that it's not blessed.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
And so then then the third thing combined would be
the fact that Jesus never asked God to bless any food.
Every time he prayed for food, he said thank you,
thank you for.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
The food, for the food food.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Anyway, all that to say, I just remember this big
conversation in this in this uh you know, in this
uh Bible it's debate where the professor says, theologically, I'm
not going to ever really correct you if you say
God bless this food. But technically there's no such thing
as unblessed food and blessed food. So you don't have
(05:14):
to pray for for anybody to bless your food because
it's not unblessed. And he says, so, so playing praying
for blessed this food is actually something that uh, that's irrelevant,
and so it's and so and actually it was it's
in the category of things we pray. That's wrong, right, Yeah,
so that's what do you think about that? By the way,
(05:36):
it's not it's not it's it's not one of our topics.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'm reading along that way
because it's it's you know, how should you pray the Lord?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I think that. You know, when you're saying, bless
this food to my body is a different thing than
That's why I was asking you, what do you what
do you mean by the word blessing?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, it is like put your magic pixie dust on
it and make it special.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, is that what you're thinking, is blessing? I think
I think you're asking I think you're saying that from
like a Catholic perspective of blessing a thing. Oh yes, yeah,
as opposed to us how I grew up. Yeah, as
opposed to the word bless it. Blessed just means the
favor of God. That's all it means. So blessed are
you in fath favor? Blessed are the poor and spirit?
(06:19):
He says happy. That's what the word blessed means. When
Jesus talked about blessed, is this happy?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Well, that's not what we pray. When we say bless
the food, we don't say happy make the food, and
we certainly don't say give the favor of God on
this oatmeal.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, so I think you think that you're praying a
blessing on the food as opposed to most people say
bless this food to my body.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, yes, food period, to my body, as the application.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Gives supernatural favor to this food and to my body
in this moment, as opposed to just natural consumption of
the food. I think that's what that's that's the request.
Nothing inappropriate about it.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I've opened up a big can of worm shitting. So
so I would say I still adhere to the fact
that UH, praying blessing over the food is unnecessary and uh,
and and and I could maybe I'll come back around
and and and qualify that. And then and then another
thing was is UH. And I remember specifically talking about
(07:15):
UH everywhere in the New Testament and in the Old
Testament even it talks about the fact that Jesus's purpose
is to reconcile us with a relationship with our heavenly Father.
And every time that we pray, we pray to the
heavenly Father. Every time Jesus prayed, he played to the Father.
Every time that there is a prayer given, it's to
the Father, and it's through Jesus. Jesus the mediator who
(07:39):
stands between God and man. Right, Jesus the reconciler, the
one who brings us back to the to the relationship
that is broken in the garden of Eden, which is
the Father. The fact that God the Father is the
one who has the will for us, that's his role
and you know, in in his personhood. So I always say,
(08:00):
I'm not going to correct you. If you pray to Jesus,
that's not a big deal because after all, we serve
one God in three persons, God the Father's son, Holy
Spirit right trindly, so he's still God. But theologically you're
supposed to pray to the Father through Jesus Christ or
(08:25):
in Jesus name, because Jesus is the bringer of us
to God the Father. And then of course the Holy
Spirit's job is the interpreter of those prayers. So the
Spirit is the one who brings the prayer and communicates
the prayer to the Father, and Jesus makes it possible
for us to pray to the Father.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, So the word theologically would imply the right way, right,
this is what God commands. And I don't think that
that's true.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
I didn't necessarily attach it to a command. I always
thought logically meant the theology of the belief.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I would say biblically, because there's different theologies. That's
what I'm saying, so biblically, Yeah, yeah, that's it's not
so biblically. Yeah, I can't think of Are there any
verses that are there any prayers in the Bible that
aren't to the Father but are to the Spirit, say,
(09:22):
or to the to the Son.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I think the answer is no. I could pretty confidently
say me, search it. If you find one, I'm gonna be.
I'm gonna be. Yeah, well, I tie with my hat
in hand.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But I was going to say, I often will pray
to the Holy Spirit or to Jesus, which again is
not inappropriate. It's not in a prose, not forbidden, that's correct.
But what you're saying is all the prayers wind up
being directed to the Father anyways, because it's it's his will.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm saying that. I think prayers are intended for the Father.
I think that's what the Bible indicates in every turn
when it talks about praying, and then even when it
talks about uh again, the role of the Father is
the one that we should pray too because of his role.
(10:13):
Oh oh oh, no, did you find one? Yeah? Is
it New Testament or Old Testament?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
New Testament?
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay? Sure.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, Lord Jesus received my spirit.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
So he did pray.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
He did pray. Yeah. Well, I mean so that one's
unmistakably directed at Jesus.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Yeah. But in all defense, though, he was actually looking
at Jesus when he said it, right, So in uh,
this is not a little exception. He was looking to Jesus,
is literally standing and staring.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
At but he's still praying to Jesus. Jesus. No, no, no, no,
asked my father. Okay, Jesus didn't do that here, Hey,
don't because he's standing on the right. Oh, talk to me,
talk to him right right? Uh? Paul In two Corinthians
twelve three times he begged the Lord to take away
history in the flesh. And that's the lord is. It's
(11:07):
in the Greek is Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's what that means. In the Greek Lord capital l
is Jesus always.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So it says here Lord refers to Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Wait a minute, the Lord in the Old Testament capital
l is God the Father.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, but he's the King of kings and Lord of
lords in the New Testament.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Question that I'm scared to look it up. A skeptical
on that one.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, And then Revelation twenty two twenty ends with even
so come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well is that a prayer?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Sure? What, I'm ringing your bill? Okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So so Stephen Stephen's the is the is the monkey
in the rest the wrench?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Rench?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah? And Rome Is ten thirteen is quoting Joel And
I think that one is pointing at Jesus. Everyone who
calls in the name of the Lord will be saved, right,
because it's in direct connection to the verses just before it,
where it says you have to believe that he rose
again and invite him to be and declare that he
is Lord. And I's talking about Jesus, that's not about
(12:11):
anybody else. And everyone who calls them the name of
the Lord will be saying interesting. Yeah, I've never read
it that way.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I've always always read it. Believe in Jesus, who
the Lord said, and then call upon the name of
the Lord. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, anyways in life, but I don't mean to because
I think I think fundamentally you're right. Fundamentally, the huge
majority of prayers are to the Father. It's just not inappropriate.
And it's not even poor theology to pray to Jesus
in appropriate moments, or pray to the Holy Spirit because
Stephen did, yeah, or pray to the Holy Spirit, and
(12:48):
so it's not inappropriate. It's just theologically consistently in the Bible.
The Father is the one from whom the will comes.
Even Jesus said, not my will, but your will be done.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Well, you know what's so interesting is how many years
have you been graduated? Have you graduated from Bible College?
What year did you graduate? Ninety ninety seven, so uh so, yeah,
so I graduated a few years earlier than that, and
so that's been over thirty years. And I still remembered
that conversation.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, blew your mind.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Yeah. At the time, I remember, I wrote.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Catholic kid, come in here and suddenly find out what what?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I remember being in that
room and everybody having this conversation, and I remember thinking
to myself, and to be honest with you, even even
now as I'm saying this, I think the ammunition of
some of the students in the room most likely was
quoting Steven in Act chapter seven, right. So I remember
(13:46):
watching the professor rebuttal back and forth and back and forth,
and then ultimately the whole room concluded that you know
that that was you know that we were meant to
pray to God the Father. But I'm not sure I've
ever thought about it since then, because again, like I said,
I'm not the theology deep dive, you know, or Bible
(14:10):
deep dive, because I'm not sure that it's really mattered. No, yeah,
it's not mattered.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that ten thirteen, this is where I got hung up.
So I didn't think of the Stephen part yep, but
Romans because I quoted every Sunday. He says, if you
confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and you
believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead,
you will be saved. For with the heart one believes
(14:37):
under righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
So declaring him Lord with your mouth, it's part of that,
and then he says, for whoever calls on the name
of the Lord shall be saved. So you've defined that
Jesus is the Lord. So you're calling on Jesus for salvation, right, right.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So that is and that's indicat through prayer. You call
on you call on God through.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Any time you talk to God, it's a prayer. Yeah, Father,
son or Holy Spirit, it's a prayer. Yeah, yeah, right,
But I think it's appropriate. There been times when when
I was going to in this situation and I'd be like,
Holy Spirit, remind me of what the Word says in
this situation, give me wisdom and discernment in this situation.
And that's an appropriate thing, right, give me your spirit
(15:22):
to to do, because that's his job. His job is
to teach us and to remind us. That's what Jesus said.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right. There's been times when I prayed that the Holy
Spirit would comfort somebody who was going through pain, and
I wouldn't just send say God, you know, Father, send
your spirit. I would just ask the Holy Spirit to
comfort that person because that's what that's his job, that's
what he does.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, I think I would actually pray, Father, send your spirit.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, but he's already sent a spirit. We already have
a spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
No, I know that.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I'm just saying, oh, well, theologically, yeah, help me. You
doesn't have to send the spirit.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
No, I know, I don't believe in spirit already here
we have all the Holy Spirit will ever get.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah. Yeah, so I started there, so has a Holy
Spirit to comfort comfort them. Because if the Holy Spirit
is the one sending the message, bringing the prayer, yeah,
then you just short circuit that and he doesn't have
to get all the way there and back again. Yeah
I'm joking, he's already here. But yeah, so that's really good. Anyway,
let's go.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Back there and back. And yet I didn't even catch
it's joking.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So so uh man, I'm not trying to throw a
monkey wrench in there. I just I like that every
idea that comes up, that's a new idea to me.
I like the probit as much as possible, and the
Bible is going to prove the Bible to be honest.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I think people appreciate these kind of debates more than anything.
In fact, my son in law, who sometimes listens in
uh in Florida, he says that the most compelling times
is when we have a discussion and say like, hey,
what do you think. I don't know, I think, and
(16:55):
we sort of either have different opinions or sorting it out,
or it's it's us breaking down what other people think,
which is like a stump to Pastard question.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, sure, yeah, so I think fundamentally you are correct,
because the will of God is what we're praying for
every time, healing, strength, to share the Gospel with a friend, whatever, all,
We're always praying for God's will. And so it's consistent
as Jesus said, your will be done on earth as
it is in heaven. Nevertheless, not my will, but your
will be done that that's always appropriate, and the will
(17:28):
of God, the Father always comes comes to be. And
then Jesus is one who fulfilled the will of the Father,
and the Holy Spirit's the one who who empowers us.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I almost forgot. We have another Bible question.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, stump pastor, Well, so finish that question though. What
was that question?
Speaker 1 (17:45):
The first one? Yeah, when I pray to when I
pray to the Lord, is this Jesus or God?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah? Okay, yeah, so yeah, that's it. So when you
pray to the Lord, you are praying to Jesus, And
what you're saying is it's Jesus would pray to the Father,
and that's mostly how all the prayers would go, would
be the Father. But it's not inappropriate to pray to
the Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Okay. And then the next question is who put the
Bible together, not just the authors, but who decided which
book would go where? Wow, holy cow, Now you said,
I remember one time being in your office and we
were having this conversation and you had a really good
(18:31):
insight about this. So I'm just going to hand this
to you to tackle it, and I'll chime in, Okay,
because I could. I could definitely hang with the best
of them. When it comes to the Bible says over
twenty six hundred times it claims divine inspiration of itself,
and three thousand, eight hundred and eight times it talks
about how even though it was written by human authors,
(18:54):
it was not from any No origin of the scriptures
came from the human author right. It was God breathed
through yes, yes, And they were actually distinctively writing the
words of God. And it actually claims to be the
God breathe or God's breath or the very words of God.
So I could definitely hang on that end.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's hysterical. I had some notes for this one, yeah,
and my iPad just went dead. Yeah, so let's do
it this way. So what he's asking is, I'm assuming
he believes the Bible is God's word, But how did
we get it right? Because you're right, the Bible affirms
over and over and over again that we're not hearing
(19:36):
from men. We're hearing men bring God's words that God
gave to them. So that's a big part of it.
The thirty seven books of the Old Testament were established
four hundred years before Jesus. That the rabbis and the
top leaders of Israel had sorted through all of the
(20:01):
books and they had certain requirements with regard to how
do we know if this is validly from God? Is
it inspired by God? And those thirty seven books were
established four hundred years before Jesus. And that's what we
would call the Old Testament. It's what the it's what
is the Hebrew Bible. And by the way those were called,
(20:26):
those were called the Lord's It thirty nine. I'm sorry
what I say? Seven, Okay, I I have my notes
in front me. Yep. The thirty nine books yeah, you're right,
because there's twenty seven New Testament books, right, So the
thirty nine Old Testament books those were called in the
(20:46):
four hundred years before Jesus, they were called the Law
and the Prophets. That's what they were called. So they
didn't go around calling talking about the Bible. Right, the
Hebrew people, the Israelite people, the Jewish people did not
say so were studying the Bible today, they would have
the Torah, that'd be the first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Sexis, Viticus,
numbers in Deuteronomy. They would have those books. They've talked
(21:10):
about the Torah everything else. They talked about the Law
and the Prophets, and it was their phrase. So when
Jesus is teaching, Jesus knew about the thirty nine books
that all the rabbis taught from that they referred to
it as the law in the prophets. When they come
to Jesus and they say, these lawyers come to Jesus
(21:32):
and say, Jesus, what is the most important commandment from God?
Jesus's will love the Lord your God with all your heart,
always saw all your mind and all your strength. And
the second is just like it, love your neighbors, yourself,
and these two commandments fulfill all the law and the prophets.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, ya, he says, all the law and prophets hang
on these two capers.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes, So he says that. So Jesus not only affirms
the fact that the most important thing God wanted us
to know from those first thirty nine books is love God,
love people, but then he also affirms the validity of
those thirty nine books because he called them by what
they called them. He wasn't like the law and the
prophets and some other books right, or some of the
(22:14):
law and the prophets. He doesn't do that. He affirms
all of the law and the prophets. So we can,
under the authority of Jesus say the thirty nine books
that had been established in the Old Testament are legitimate.
Jesus views those of God's words. Those are God's words.
So then that leaves us with the twenty six or
twenty seven books in the New Testament. There were a
(22:36):
few different rules. All of them were written between forty
five AD and one hundred AD. So from Matthew to Revelation,
everything that Paul wrote, Mark Luke, John Jude James, the
author of Hebrews, They Peter. All those books were written
(22:57):
between forty five AD and one hundred AD, and they
were already being circulated among all the churches. The churches
were using them. There were other books floating around, but
for the most part, it was these and the rules
that they established in that first one hundred and fifty
years of Christianity. Was was it written by an eyewitness?
(23:22):
Was it written claimed to be written under the authority
of the Holy Spirit, the inspirational Holy Spirit? Does it
have an apostolic connection in some way, the Apostles being
Peter James, John right, the Disciples Paul Also, does it
have some connection directly to an apostle? Mark was not
(23:43):
an apostle, but he was Peter's secretary, right, So you
have that. So was it connected to the Apostles? And
then did the Apostles affirm the other writings? Did they
quote from them, did they refer to them, did they
teach them? Or did the apostles initial group of disciples
quote them? So that gets you within one hundred years
(24:05):
of Jesus right, If the disciples of the Apostles are
quoting these other books, and what's really a phenomenal is
before the two fifties. We can recreate from the writings
of the ancient church fathers. We can recreate almost the
entire New Testament from their own writings quoting the New Testament.
(24:25):
But the New Testament was not codified these twenty nine
books only until three forty I think it was three
hundred maybe at the the the Council of Carthage. I
should look that up. It might be two forty ad.
Let me look it up. The Council of Carthage. And
(24:48):
the Council of Carthage is when they determined, okay, these
twenty nine books three ninety seven ady, and it was
in what is now modern day Tunisia, and they got
together and they determined all twenty nine or twenty seven
books of the New Testament. They verified, yes, we still
(25:11):
believe in the thirty nine books of the Old Testament.
And they were able to rebuild all of this. And
you can do it even apart from the Bible. You
can redo it, rebuild it from those first disciples, after
the disciples, quoting each other's books. And so this is
one of the things that you could recognize that they
recognize the scripture. It's interesting. Paul refers to some of
(25:34):
Peter's writings as scripture, right, so even at that point
they were recognizing it. So some people would say, oh, well,
the Bible wasn't codified until the Catholics did it, and
you know the Council on Ica or whatever, Well they
did it before that, and at the Council of Carthage,
and then they'll say, oh, it was men that made
these choices. All they were doing was verifying whether or
not all of the earliest believers, the walkers with Jesus,
(25:57):
believed that these other writings were truly from God, and
that's what they did. So then when you it'll come up,
like if you ever watch on the Discovery Channel or something,
they say, oh, what about the Gospel of Mary Magdalene
or the Gospel of Judas or whatever. There are no
historical references to those until hundreds of years after they
were claimed to be written. And yet within less than
(26:21):
one hundred years of Jesus, within sixty years of the
Book of Mark being written, they were already verifying that
that's the Book of Mark. And it's hundreds and hundreds
and hundreds of years later, hundreds of years later before
you get to anything like the Gospel of mag Magdalene,
Gospel of Judas, and those books were widely disregarded even
(26:43):
by the first people who had a chance to see them,
let alone the earliest apostles never saw them because they
didn't exist. So that's my little speech on that. If
you were wondering, yes, sir, I remember that cover what
you were thinking about it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Because you have a lot of knowledge when it comes
to that, and I knew that you sort of knew that,
like I would never be able to come up with that,
and I certainly didn't. If I would have known that
that was gonna be the question, I could have certainly
researched that well.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So the here's what I say, because we've gone just
a little bit long on this. If you're curious about it,
Norm Geisler, just look up Norm Geisler's best books on
how we got the Bible. He's got one called From
God to Us. He's got a couple of others where
he really digs into the history of it. It's academic.
You're gonna have to work through it. It's pretty amazing.
(27:29):
And then any of the books by Lee Strobel, you
can start to dig in and he recommends, you know,
case for Christ, the case for the real Jesus, the
case for a creator, all these things. Any of those
he digs into how can we trust scripture, particularly the
case for Christ? So either of those books be great.
And then lastly, let me say, Josh and Norm McDowell
wrote a book called Unshakable Truth and they dig in
(27:52):
pretty deeply, but it's simple to read. They dig in
pretty deeply on how can we know that we have
the Word of God today?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
That's great, Yeah, that is definitely our time. That's one
of the longest ever.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Congratulations, it's the loonest episode on a Friday alright.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
In fact, if I wait six more seconds, we'll go
in the twenty eight mark. That'll be a record.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Okay, And here we go and twenty minutes good bye.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
See letter
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