October 2, 2025 • 27 mins
Episode 784:
In this episode, we focus on the powerful moment in Luke 23, where Jesus, while being crucified, prays for the forgiveness of those who are executing him. This leads us to discuss the profound implications of forgiveness, both in the context of Jesus' example and in our own lives. We share personal stories of forgiveness, including my own journey with my biological father, highlighting that forgiveness does not mean condoning wrongdoing but rather releasing the burden of resentment.
In this episode, we focus on the powerful moment in Luke 23, where Jesus, while being crucified, prays for the forgiveness of those who are executing him. This leads us to discuss the profound implications of forgiveness, both in the context of Jesus' example and in our own lives. We share personal stories of forgiveness, including my own journey with my biological father, highlighting that forgiveness does not mean condoning wrongdoing but rather releasing the burden of resentment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, happy Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Happy Thursday.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Sure, why not?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're so excited we can hardly stand it.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Make this day the best Thursday ever?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And uh and by the way, it could be the
end of the day.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, I think I think Thursday doesn't get very good attention,
right with you. I mean, there's Monday. Everybody hates Mondays. Yeah,
Wednesday's hump day. You're like, hey, we're over the hump now,
we're halfway to the good part of the week. Friday
or Fridays, thank god, it's Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Weekends are great.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Weekends are amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So really, Tuesday and thursdayild.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We just forget forgotten. So hey, it's time for us
to give honor to whom honor is due. Thursday's been
standing there for us, Thursday. If it weren't for Thursday,
we wouldn't have anything to do between Wednesday and Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
A little buddy Thursday. All right, all right, hey, today
we are before we jump into the what is titled
as the hardest.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Prayer, hardist prayer, how about that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, we have a segment and this is Stump the Pastor. Oh,
Stump the Pastor is actually something that we actually collect questions.
We enjoy them, and we encourage you to email us
right now. So go to info actually send an email
to info at the Bible guys dot com. It'll get
to us. Or just comment on YouTube and we'll try
(01:28):
to grab your question right there.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I love questions like this. I love like just open
forum Q and a kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Do you enjoy that, yes, Well, it shows that people
are thinking, yeah, and it shows that people care and
they're like, hey, I have a question about the Bible
and I really want to know this answer.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah. Several times, a couple times a year. Usually I'll
meet with our high schoolers and just take an hour
or two and say, hey, it's just any question you
want to ask. And it's amazing how they they'll stay
sometimes for hours and hours just as questions. So I'll
tell them I'll stay as long as your pans will
let you stay. And so then they started this as
then all of a sudden, Mom and Dad are all
(02:03):
standing around. We got the crowd of people stand around
just asking Bible questions. Done it a few times with
our young adults. We got one hundred and something young
adults in our church, and and we do the same
thing there. We gotta fly flying around us, and so
do the same thing with our interns and residents will
do it. I just I love it when people are
using their minds. They've come across the thing, they're not
(02:24):
sure what the answer is. And instead of just giving up,
like I think a lot of people have grown up
with a religious view or belief of don't ask questions.
It offends God, right, Instead, I love it. The Book
of Jeremiah says, come now, let's reason together. Says the
Lord God wants us to use our minds. He God
invented your mind. That's right, he did, right, and he
knows that you have this ability to have big questions.
(02:46):
And he's not offended when we have questions. So I
love it. I love this segment. And so what's what's
our questions?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
But by the way, did you I learned recently learned
that Chad is more reluctant to let me do a
public Q and A than you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Our executive pastor, executivestor. Our executive pastor is very protective,
you know, why because he's because you go rogue.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Well he's not. He's not afraid of my theology of
the answer. He's he's afraid of my diplomacy lack of it. Right, So,
so so he's like, he's like, and I'm not even
I'm not even sure afraid is the word.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
He's just a little bit more cautious. Cautious. He's like,
we don't we don't really know if Chris is going
to be you would do fine.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Because we all know that you're diplomatic. Well, it's definitely
clear that you're way more diplomatic than.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Me at times at times, Okay, I can also be
a bigger jerk than you, so right at times? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So my lows are lower and my highs are higher.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
My lows are lower, my eyes are higher. Yeah yeah,
that's pretty good. All right. Yeah, So this this question
is written by Bill T.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Bill Bill T.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yes, Hey, Bill Yes, not Bill T, but.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Bill Bill T. Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So he writes this, is there a distinction in the
Bible between justifiable and unjustifiable anger? Can Christians express anger
in a righteous way as Jesus did in the temple,
or should all anger be avoided entirely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, I'm afraid to answer this question at but Bill
to be mad at me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But I'm bumping. Ah, I see what you did there? Yeah,
so yeah, I mean, like, so I remember a sermon.
You know, some sermons you remember forever, right, I don't
know if you do. I do, But I remember a
sermon that Bill Heibels gave at a leadership summit back
in like two thousand and six, and so we were
(04:39):
actually at the leadership summit and he actually talked about
righteous indignation, and he talked about how Jesus had righteous
indignation and how he flipped over the money changer's temple
or money changers tables at the temple.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So and by the way, because made a whip.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, because that's correct he did. Because that's been mentioned twice.
We might as well at least explain that way.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So Jesus actually in the Bible got angry, and he
got angry at the fact that he actually said, you
have made my house into a den of thieves, right,
And he was referring to people who were abusing what
it was like selling sacrifices and making a profit, unreasonable profit.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh yeah, it was exorbitant. They had kind of a
monopoly on the If you were traveling hundreds and hundreds
of miles to the temple, normally you wouldn't bring your sacrifice.
You would take that perfect sacrificial animal. You would sell it,
bring the money to Jerusalem and buy another animal that
you could do rather try to bring it the whole way. Well,
what was happening was the money changers and then the
(05:52):
people running businesses at the temple. They were you know, five, six, ten,
twenty times more expensive than what you could have gotten
or village for the same animal. And it's because they
had a monopoly on it. They were abusing people just
to make money. And it really made Jesus man. So
he makes a whip, he clips over the tables and
sets all the animals free and spills all their money
everywhere and really chews them out.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, well, I mean Jesus with a whip is not
a common painting. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Usually it's usually it's like a sad Jesus with long
hair and blue eyes looking up into the Caucasian Yeah. Yeah,
the stars, and he's holding the lamb and hugging a child.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I don't usually think of Jesus with his sleeves rolled up,
whipping people, flipping tables.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And none of that. But like he was a strong man. Yeah,
he is a carpenter, right, and so he was a specimen.
I mean we know that just from the physical uh
you know, brutality of even you know what he endured
and he endured it, right, So yeah, so I mean
this the picture would be a strong muscular man, angry
with a whip, flipping over tables. And so I almost
(06:57):
wonder because again, everything to me is Hollywood, not for
the sake of Hollywood, by the way, for the sake
of reality. Right, So Hollywood, meaning when I say Hollywood,
I mean like I can picture the whole entire scene
right now, That's what I mean. But I don't mean
Hollywood fake or Hollywood dramatization. I don't mean any of
those terms. When I say Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What I mean you see a movie.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I could see this being played out. And so oftentimes
when I Hollywood, I as a narrative, I will I
will try to suppose or wonder and think to myself, like,
did somebody try to oppose him? Like? It doesn't say so, right,
It does not say that somebody came up to him,
and he pushed them out of the way. Or three
men were thinking about charging him, and then he held
(07:40):
up the whip and looked at them, and they knew
he was serious, and so they backed off. Right. But
I'm sure those things happen, right, because guess what, You
don't come into a place and destroy people's profitability in
their livelihood without opposition, You just don't, Right. I'm sure
they caught him by surprise, and I'm sure that everybody
(08:00):
knew who Jesus was. I mean, they certainly knew who
he was, so there might have been a fear of like,
I don't know what to do right.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Now, Yeah, just get out of here, Like I.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Don't know, I'm a nobody. I'm a guy who's making
a profit off animal sacrifices. And here's that's and I
know who that is. That's Jesus, and so I don't
know what to do right now. But those are the
kind of things when I say, Hollywood is things I
think to myself, like, how did that play out? Yeah,
because certainly people had to have a reaction to Jesus anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well. In Ephesians four twenty six is it twenty six?
Ephesians four something, let me find it. Ephesians four four.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know, Ephesians four thirty two. I know if He'sans four.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Twenty oh, yeah, there you go for twenty six. And
don't let sin, and don't sin by letting anger control you. Right,
don't let the sun go down while you're still angry.
For angry anger gives a foothold to the devil. Another
translation says, be angry and sin not and then don't
let the sun go down, right, and so, so anger
(09:10):
isn't the same, right right. Anger is just an emotion.
Where it becomes sinful is when it's self centered. I'm
angry at you because you offended me. If you just
if you just let that fester. This why I says,
don't let the sun go down on your anger. You
let that fester, it's going to turn into bitterness. This
bitterness gives a foothold to the devil. So, uh, you
(09:31):
talked about righteous indignation. Man, If somebody was coming through
the door to hurt my wife and my daughter in
the middle of the night, that's correct. Believe me, they're
going to get the full force of Jeff right. And
it's the anger then is driven by the threat to
what I love so dearly. So first of all, I
have to I have to really make sure I love
(09:51):
the right things. It's not just me, it's not just
my happiness and my comfort. But I love my wife,
I love my daughter, I love my freedom, I love right.
There's a lot of those things, and so because of
that major threats to those things. It's not a sinful
thing to have that anger feeling, that that rush come
(10:14):
into you saying I need to defend this. The Bible
talks multiple times that it's responsibility the strong to protect
the weak, to speak up for those who don't have
a voice, to protect those who can't protect themselves. Right.
So the Jesus talks about at one point, you know,
the kingdom he's putting violent men will have to seize it, right,
And he's not talking about like violence like you and
(10:34):
I think of blood and gore, but by men, men
that just stand up in their strength and grab a
hold of this thing. So I'm always cautious when people
start to ask is it sometimes okay for me to
be angry? Because on occasion I'm not saying in bill
Ty is this guy, But on occasion it's people who
(10:54):
have trouble with their anger and they're trying to justify
it and win an argument with their spouse later, right, or.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
If they're an angry person in general, they may be
generally concerned about their demeanor.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
If you are having trustworthy people, spouses, children, friends, saying, boy,
you seem like you're pretty angry lately, then maybe you're
starting to cross the line between being angry and sinning.
Not right, you need to get back to that. Don't sin.
So let your anger drive you to do something good.
Right So, right now, for instance, one of the ministries
(11:27):
you're really focusing a lot on lately has been child trafficking,
right right, So how does that make you feel? You
drive through those neighborhoods, and you know what's happening in
Dominican Republic. Their parents are selling their own children.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I'll actually make a statement. When I went on a
tour and I actually saw I saw it with my eyes.
I saw it, I saw the child, I saw what
was happening and the men protecting it, and I saw
a person go up and inquire about it. I have
never felt more anger in my entire life, in my
whole life, and I've gotten angry about a lot of
(12:02):
things I've never felt more anger than that.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So God is not calling you to be Batman becomes
some vigilante, right, come swooping in, kick the doors down, necessarily,
But that anger has driven you to start helping build
a system to rescue those kids, raise the money through
transform one, and actively begin working towards a good solution.
(12:25):
And that may not be repaying evil with evil, right,
it's repaying evil with good. And so how do you
how do you go solve that?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So which which, by the way, since you already mentioned it,
I wasn't going to say it, but by the time
this goes on the air, we will be two weeks
out from our five k. And if you want to
make a small.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Donation or a big donation or a big donation, we
don't we don't want to limit your donation. I would
you like to make a donation?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I would. I would love it if if somebody who
normally isn't a part of heritage, because you know, a
lot of people who listen to this are part of
our community anyway, and they're like, I have already heard
about this, Yes, but there has to be.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Thousand, thousands of people who don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What we're talking about. Would you do me a favorite?
Go to Heritage Church dot com slash five k. Everything's
on there, so if to donate or watch the video
find out more about it herdichurch dot com slash five
k making donation, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah. So if you're asking the question because you've had
people tell you you seem really angry lately, then let
that be God's way of saying, hey, you're starting to
cross the line. Yeah, right, don't use Bible versus to
justify your anger. But if you're feeling a holy anger
or a righteous indignation towards some kind of wrong thing
(13:35):
in society, and you're wondering at my sinning, well no,
you're not sinning necessarily, as long as you direct that
in a way that causes you to then address this
issue in a healthy, godly way. Right. So people are
not your enemy. Satan is our enemy, and so we
don't fight people. We fight the actions of Satan in
society and we did so. Yeah, it's great, it's great. Hey, thanks,
(13:58):
good question, Bill, that's great.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
All of those answers are people, you know, people wonder
about those, so that's why they're called stump the pastors
because because and sometimes stump the pastors are I don't
know right right because depending on the question. But this
is something I've heard so many times, So thanks Bill
for asking.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I've thought several times it would be fun to do
Stump the pastor week. Oh if we could get enough
people to write in questions, if we could get like
one hundred questions, we could do three or four day
let's let's let's.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Let's announce it right now after the Dangerous Prayers series. Yeah,
let's do a five day stint where we do a
stump the pastor, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Not make the whole episode.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I was going to say, the one question may not
carry us the whole episode.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, but if we get if we get a hundred questions,
we could just filter through them and find the ones
that would fill up the twenty five minutes every day.
I think it'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it'd be fun. Okay, So there it is. There's
your assignon. People. If you want to see this series
come into fruition, then comment on YouTube right now, or
comment online or email us at info at the Bobble
Guys dot com and we would love to get your
stuff to past their questions.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Cool, well that's neat. Well there you go. All right,
Well I get permission from des right, right, because we
only have we only have the appearance of being in
control of this podcast, but we know who the real
puppet master is. Yes, yep, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Even no matter how angry we get, we are still
commanded to forgive Ooh, you're right. And that leads us
to this next segment, or this next passage where Jesus
forgives Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, good transition.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That was actually a good transition. That was not a
bad transition.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
No, that was a very good one. So we're going
to pick up on at Luke chapter twenty three, verse
thirty two. It says to others, both criminals were led
out to be executed with him talking about Jesus right,
and when they came to a place called the Skull
or Galgatha, they nailed him to the cross, and the
criminals were also crucified, one on his right and one
on his left. Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they
(16:00):
don't know what they are doing, and the soldiers gambled
for his clothes by throwing dice. The crowd watched and
the leader scoffed he saved others, They said, let him
save himself, as if he really is God's Messiah, the
chosen One. The soldiers mocked him too by offering him
a drink of sour wine. They called out to him,
if you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.
(16:20):
A sign was fashioned above him with these words, this
is the king of the Jews. One of the criminals
hanging beside him scoffed, So you're the Messiah? Are you
prove it by saving yourself and us two while you're
at it? But the other criminal protested, don't you fear
God even when you've been sentenced to die. We deserve
to die for our crimes. But this man hasn't done
anything wrong. And then he said, Jesus, remember me when
(16:42):
you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure
you today you'll be with me in Paradise. And by
this time it was about noon, and darkness fell across
the whole land, until three o'clock the light from the
sun was gone, as suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary
of the temple was torn down the middle. Then Jesus shouted, Father,
I entrust my spirit into your hands and with those words,
(17:02):
he breathed his last.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Wow, there's a lot in there.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yes, well, I think the big, the dangerous prayers Father
forgive them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, that is definitely the focus of the topic. Uh.
And we can go on forever about everything else that's
in there. Uh. But I don't know why. I just
got super emotional thinking about the criminal. You know. He
you know, here's this criminal who doesn't have a name,
just known as the criminal.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, and one day we're criminal one and criminal two.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right, We're gonna get to heaven. And I'm you know,
there's a lot of questions. I think that God will
indulge us with these questions. I do, I do. I
think I think we'll have time, obviously sure to explore
every question that we have and uh that we have
now on this earth. And I think that, uh, I
I would love to talk to this criminal. The the
idea that that one of them, you know, is scoffing
(17:55):
and then the other is completely recognizing that in belief
that he's the son of God and saying, don't you
fear God? He's saying, how dare you talk to God
this way? I mean, he is he is a believer,
you know, keep in mind that. It did say that
there were so many people there at that what am
(18:17):
I What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Pass Over week, Yes, pass over fester. The city was
just it was bursting at the seams at this point.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And it said that, It said many were there because
they had heard that he had raised Lazarus from the dead.
So his popularity had grown to such a degree to where,
you know, people had heard his claims to be the
Messiah at this time. You know, he held nothing back
and so he had done nothing wrong. Everybody knew it.
This is even a testament of the public, you know.
(18:45):
You know sometimes when when something happens and there's a patsy,
it's like you can't sort of I just watched it yesterday.
I watched the movie where everybody knew that what was
happening was unjust and this person who was the patsy
didn't deserve to get fired from his job. But everybody
knew it. Everybody knew it, but nobody wanted to talk
about it because everybody was afraid of the authorities. That
(19:05):
happened just last night, and so here it is. This
man makes a statement that represents like everybody here knows
that this man is in a sense everybody here knows
he's done nothing wrong, and this man recognizes Jesus. Anyway,
that's not the focus of the dangerous prayer.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I want to point out one interesting thing to me.
This guy on the cross, maybe in this specific moment
in history, had the most faith of maybe everybody else
on the planet, because Jesus came preaching the Kingdom of God,
(19:46):
and when you're naked and nailed to the cross, the
kingdom seems like it should be over.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Everybody lost hope, all the disciples lost.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Hope, and only the guy on the cross next to
him said, I still believe in your kingdom.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Is that an original thought right now?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Isn't that neat?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Because that's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Peter Peter lied and denied. James and the Mary's they're
they're standing back in the crowd fear.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and uh and uh. Everybody can't believe or understand. Yeah.
And it says that they didn't understand, they didn't remember
his words, they didn't know what was happening. And it
says only after he was resurrected then they remembered the
promise he told them, right, So they had lost all hope,
they were out of they were motivated, out of fear.
They all ran, they were all in hiding. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And then and this guy, this one guy said, Jesus,
remember me when you show.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Up in Paradise before the veil rents in two before
the earthquake. Is the Roman soldier?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, made a statement and the thing he had heard
Jesus say was his father forgive them. They don't know
what they've done. And he had no hope for forgiveness
except that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Right, and then he what a thought? Yeah, whats so thought? Anyways,
Jesus says, I really want.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
To meet this guy. You really want to meet this guy.
I'm going to find this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So yeah, hey, maybe you guys have been neighbors in heaven.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Maybe yes, maybe so maybe God will honor that. So
so the so the prayer Father forgive them for they
don't know what they are doing. Charlie Kirk's wife prayed that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Just just we saw it all over social media and uh,
what an unbelievable thing. So the nation right now reacted
and are marveling at the fact, like, how can anybody
forgive the shooter of your of your of your husband. Yeah,
and uh, and we've heard stories like this. I mean,
it doesn't even have to be Charlie Kirk's wife, which
(21:43):
is in recent news, but it could be you know, like, uh,
I'm sure you've heard this. Have you? Have you read
or seen YouTube or even documentaries where uh, the the
victim's wife forgives the criminal. I've actually seen it documentary
where they became best friends and she led him to
(22:04):
christ and he was on death row and she mentored
him and walked him through and he was there for
a couple of years, and eventually she was a part
of the appeal to get him off of death row. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I mean, like, which is an honest it's hard to
wrap your head around that kind of thing. So forgiveness.
And I've told my story many times, coming from a
life of abuse and those kinds of things early on,
my biological father was a very bad man before he
became a Christian and my dad adopted me and my
life changed, right, so everything was different between my biological
father and my dad. And my dad just went to
(22:41):
heaven here recently, so I missed him. I just ran
across some photos of him in my desk yesterday. Thought
about him for a while, but my biological father was
violent towards my mother and I, very very abusive for
a very long time. For thirty something years, I never
heard anything from him at all after he gave him.
After he gave me up for adoption, one day he
(23:02):
reached out. He sent me an email said that he'd
seen all my messages online, seen what God was doing
in my life, and he said, I hope that you
believe in redemption because God's changed me over the last
several years. He got sober and gave his life to Christ,
and his life had changed, and he said, I hope
you can forgive me. So then when I met him,
(23:23):
met him one time, he confessed how he treated me
and my mom and that it was wrong, and that
he said, you know, I don't think you could have
been who you grew up to be if you'd stayed
in my life. You know, I would have destroyed that.
But God had to take you away from me, and
that was the best thing. But I hope you can
forgive me. And I told him the words, I do
(23:46):
forgive you, But I don't know that I felt like
I forgave him until I found out after that conversation,
maybe thirty minutes later he told me that he was
dying of cancer and asked me to do his funeral.
And then I was faced with that when he did
die of cancer, I was faced with that whether or
not I was going to do his funeral. And I
realized forgiveness, like Charlie Kirk's wife just did or whatever,
(24:08):
publicly is not saying what you did is okay, correct,
it's not. It's not saying ah, no, big eie. It
was a big deal. It was a devastatingly big deal.
This is the most devastating thing. You nearly ruined my life,
right kind of thing, and then your mom. But what
I realized was in Romans chapter twelve, he says, don't
(24:31):
repay evil with evil, repay evil with good. And then
he says, because Vengeance's mind says the Lord, I will repay.
What I realized is forgiveness really is just me giving
up my right to prosecute you and judge you and
execute you. And I'll give that over to God. God,
you do what you need to do with him. He
(24:53):
you know what he did. He did die, and he
did have to go stand before his maker, and he
did have to give an account, right, and that released
me on that day when I realized I'm not saying
it's okay, I'm saying it's God's business, not mine anymore.
I'm giving them. And dude, I got set free from
the bitterness and the resentment that i'd had in all
(25:14):
that time prior when I finally realized, Okay, I'm not God.
I'm going to give him over to God. And God's
going to do what God's going to do for justice,
not me, right, And that's what says free. And so
when Jesus says, Father, forgive them, they don't know what
they're doing, Jesus is actually leading on behalf of those
who deserve judgment. And that's a whole other level.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Man.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, personal forgiveness is I don't have to judge you.
But this is he's advocating for them now, and that's
next level.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that's definitely next level. And really there's so much
in that statement because he's saying they don't understand, almost
implying like if they understood, it would be a whole
different thing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Right, So Father forgive them because they're acting at ignorance.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It was the alcohol in him that was doing it.
He wasn't that way when he was sober. He was
just that way when he was drunk. Here's just the
problem was he's drunk all the time, right, And Jesus
is understanding, we're drunk on our sin. We are are
consumed by the evil that is in us, to the
point we don't even really know the depths of our
hearts really, right, We're not very self aware. And Jesus
(26:22):
is just like, they have no idea what they're doing,
so forgive them. He looked at us, He looked at
his his the soldiers, his killers. He looked at them
with a compassion that I hope we can find in
our own hearts. That they're like children. They're just stumbling along,
stumbling around, consumed by evil. They have no idea how
(26:43):
this is ruining them and everything around them. And if
we can start to have that kind of compassion towards
the evils we see in society, maybe we can come
with far more power. Because it was right after that
prayer that this criminal goes Jesus, I want what you have, yeah, right,
and the world will want what we have when we
step up and we're able to say, God, you fix it.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah. What a great podcast. I rate this top notch.
All right, that's a good one. Yeah, it's a good conversation,
good conversation. All right. Well, hey, hopefully we will see
you tomorrow on the Bibble guys,
You're listening to the Bible Guys, a podcast where a
couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in
practical ways. Hey, everybody, happy Thursday.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Happy Thursday.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Sure, why not?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're so excited we can hardly stand it.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Make this day the best Thursday ever?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And uh and by the way, it could be the
end of the day.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, I think I think Thursday doesn't get very good attention,
right with you. I mean, there's Monday. Everybody hates Mondays. Yeah,
Wednesday's hump day. You're like, hey, we're over the hump now,
we're halfway to the good part of the week. Friday
or Fridays, thank god, it's Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Weekends are great.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Weekends are amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
So really, Tuesday and thursdayild.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
We just forget forgotten. So hey, it's time for us
to give honor to whom honor is due. Thursday's been
standing there for us, Thursday. If it weren't for Thursday,
we wouldn't have anything to do between Wednesday and Friday.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
A little buddy Thursday. All right, all right, hey, today
we are before we jump into the what is titled
as the hardest.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Prayer, hardist prayer, how about that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, we have a segment and this is Stump the Pastor. Oh,
Stump the Pastor is actually something that we actually collect questions.
We enjoy them, and we encourage you to email us
right now. So go to info actually send an email
to info at the Bible guys dot com. It'll get
to us. Or just comment on YouTube and we'll try
(01:28):
to grab your question right there.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I love questions like this. I love like just open
forum Q and a kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Do you enjoy that, yes, Well, it shows that people
are thinking, yeah, and it shows that people care and
they're like, hey, I have a question about the Bible
and I really want to know this answer.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah. Several times, a couple times a year. Usually I'll
meet with our high schoolers and just take an hour
or two and say, hey, it's just any question you
want to ask. And it's amazing how they they'll stay
sometimes for hours and hours just as questions. So I'll
tell them I'll stay as long as your pans will
let you stay. And so then they started this as
then all of a sudden, Mom and Dad are all
(02:03):
standing around. We got the crowd of people stand around
just asking Bible questions. Done it a few times with
our young adults. We got one hundred and something young
adults in our church, and and we do the same
thing there. We gotta fly flying around us, and so
do the same thing with our interns and residents will
do it. I just I love it when people are
using their minds. They've come across the thing, they're not
(02:24):
sure what the answer is. And instead of just giving up,
like I think a lot of people have grown up
with a religious view or belief of don't ask questions.
It offends God, right, Instead, I love it. The Book
of Jeremiah says, come now, let's reason together. Says the
Lord God wants us to use our minds. He God
invented your mind. That's right, he did, right, and he
knows that you have this ability to have big questions.
(02:46):
And he's not offended when we have questions. So I
love it. I love this segment. And so what's what's
our questions?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
But by the way, did you I learned recently learned
that Chad is more reluctant to let me do a
public Q and A than you.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Our executive pastor, executivestor. Our executive pastor is very protective,
you know, why because he's because you go rogue.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Well he's not. He's not afraid of my theology of
the answer. He's he's afraid of my diplomacy lack of it. Right, So,
so so he's like, he's like, and I'm not even
I'm not even sure afraid is the word.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
He's just a little bit more cautious. Cautious. He's like,
we don't we don't really know if Chris is going
to be you would do fine.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Because we all know that you're diplomatic. Well, it's definitely
clear that you're way more diplomatic than.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Me at times at times, Okay, I can also be
a bigger jerk than you, so right at times? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So my lows are lower and my highs are higher.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
My lows are lower, my eyes are higher. Yeah yeah,
that's pretty good. All right. Yeah, So this this question
is written by Bill T.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Bill Bill T.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Yes, Hey, Bill Yes, not Bill T, but.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Bill Bill T. Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So he writes this, is there a distinction in the
Bible between justifiable and unjustifiable anger? Can Christians express anger
in a righteous way as Jesus did in the temple,
or should all anger be avoided entirely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, I'm afraid to answer this question at but Bill
to be mad at me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But I'm bumping. Ah, I see what you did there? Yeah,
so yeah, I mean, like, so I remember a sermon.
You know, some sermons you remember forever, right, I don't
know if you do. I do, But I remember a
sermon that Bill Heibels gave at a leadership summit back
in like two thousand and six, and so we were
(04:39):
actually at the leadership summit and he actually talked about
righteous indignation, and he talked about how Jesus had righteous
indignation and how he flipped over the money changer's temple
or money changers tables at the temple.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
So and by the way, because made a whip.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, because that's correct he did. Because that's been mentioned twice.
We might as well at least explain that way.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So Jesus actually in the Bible got angry, and he
got angry at the fact that he actually said, you
have made my house into a den of thieves, right,
And he was referring to people who were abusing what
it was like selling sacrifices and making a profit, unreasonable profit.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh yeah, it was exorbitant. They had kind of a
monopoly on the If you were traveling hundreds and hundreds
of miles to the temple, normally you wouldn't bring your sacrifice.
You would take that perfect sacrificial animal. You would sell it,
bring the money to Jerusalem and buy another animal that
you could do rather try to bring it the whole way. Well,
what was happening was the money changers and then the
(05:52):
people running businesses at the temple. They were you know, five, six, ten,
twenty times more expensive than what you could have gotten
or village for the same animal. And it's because they
had a monopoly on it. They were abusing people just
to make money. And it really made Jesus man. So
he makes a whip, he clips over the tables and
sets all the animals free and spills all their money
everywhere and really chews them out.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, well, I mean Jesus with a whip is not
a common painting. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Usually it's usually it's like a sad Jesus with long
hair and blue eyes looking up into the Caucasian Yeah. Yeah,
the stars, and he's holding the lamb and hugging a child.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I don't usually think of Jesus with his sleeves rolled up,
whipping people, flipping tables.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
And none of that. But like he was a strong man. Yeah,
he is a carpenter, right, and so he was a specimen.
I mean we know that just from the physical uh
you know, brutality of even you know what he endured
and he endured it, right, So yeah, so I mean
this the picture would be a strong muscular man, angry
with a whip, flipping over tables. And so I almost
(06:57):
wonder because again, everything to me is Hollywood, not for
the sake of Hollywood, by the way, for the sake
of reality. Right, So Hollywood, meaning when I say Hollywood,
I mean like I can picture the whole entire scene
right now, That's what I mean. But I don't mean
Hollywood fake or Hollywood dramatization. I don't mean any of
those terms. When I say Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
What I mean you see a movie.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
I could see this being played out. And so oftentimes
when I Hollywood, I as a narrative, I will I
will try to suppose or wonder and think to myself, like,
did somebody try to oppose him? Like? It doesn't say so, right,
It does not say that somebody came up to him,
and he pushed them out of the way. Or three
men were thinking about charging him, and then he held
(07:40):
up the whip and looked at them, and they knew
he was serious, and so they backed off. Right. But
I'm sure those things happen, right, because guess what, You
don't come into a place and destroy people's profitability in
their livelihood without opposition, You just don't, Right. I'm sure
they caught him by surprise, and I'm sure that everybody
(08:00):
knew who Jesus was. I mean, they certainly knew who
he was, so there might have been a fear of like,
I don't know what to do right.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Now, Yeah, just get out of here, Like I.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Don't know, I'm a nobody. I'm a guy who's making
a profit off animal sacrifices. And here's that's and I
know who that is. That's Jesus, and so I don't
know what to do right now. But those are the
kind of things when I say, Hollywood is things I
think to myself, like, how did that play out? Yeah,
because certainly people had to have a reaction to Jesus anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Well. In Ephesians four twenty six is it twenty six?
Ephesians four something, let me find it. Ephesians four four.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know, Ephesians four thirty two. I know if He'sans four.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Twenty oh, yeah, there you go for twenty six. And
don't let sin, and don't sin by letting anger control you. Right,
don't let the sun go down while you're still angry.
For angry anger gives a foothold to the devil. Another
translation says, be angry and sin not and then don't
let the sun go down, right, and so, so anger
(09:10):
isn't the same, right right. Anger is just an emotion.
Where it becomes sinful is when it's self centered. I'm
angry at you because you offended me. If you just
if you just let that fester. This why I says,
don't let the sun go down on your anger. You
let that fester, it's going to turn into bitterness. This
bitterness gives a foothold to the devil. So, uh, you
(09:31):
talked about righteous indignation. Man, If somebody was coming through
the door to hurt my wife and my daughter in
the middle of the night, that's correct. Believe me, they're
going to get the full force of Jeff right. And
it's the anger then is driven by the threat to
what I love so dearly. So first of all, I
have to I have to really make sure I love
(09:51):
the right things. It's not just me, it's not just
my happiness and my comfort. But I love my wife,
I love my daughter, I love my freedom, I love right.
There's a lot of those things, and so because of
that major threats to those things. It's not a sinful
thing to have that anger feeling, that that rush come
(10:14):
into you saying I need to defend this. The Bible
talks multiple times that it's responsibility the strong to protect
the weak, to speak up for those who don't have
a voice, to protect those who can't protect themselves. Right.
So the Jesus talks about at one point, you know,
the kingdom he's putting violent men will have to seize it, right,
And he's not talking about like violence like you and
(10:34):
I think of blood and gore, but by men, men
that just stand up in their strength and grab a
hold of this thing. So I'm always cautious when people
start to ask is it sometimes okay for me to
be angry? Because on occasion I'm not saying in bill
Ty is this guy, But on occasion it's people who
(10:54):
have trouble with their anger and they're trying to justify
it and win an argument with their spouse later, right, or.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
If they're an angry person in general, they may be
generally concerned about their demeanor.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
If you are having trustworthy people, spouses, children, friends, saying, boy,
you seem like you're pretty angry lately, then maybe you're
starting to cross the line between being angry and sinning.
Not right, you need to get back to that. Don't sin.
So let your anger drive you to do something good.
Right So, right now, for instance, one of the ministries
(11:27):
you're really focusing a lot on lately has been child trafficking,
right right, So how does that make you feel? You
drive through those neighborhoods, and you know what's happening in
Dominican Republic. Their parents are selling their own children.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I'll actually make a statement. When I went on a
tour and I actually saw I saw it with my eyes.
I saw it, I saw the child, I saw what
was happening and the men protecting it, and I saw
a person go up and inquire about it. I have
never felt more anger in my entire life, in my
whole life, and I've gotten angry about a lot of
(12:02):
things I've never felt more anger than that.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So God is not calling you to be Batman becomes
some vigilante, right, come swooping in, kick the doors down, necessarily,
But that anger has driven you to start helping build
a system to rescue those kids, raise the money through
transform one, and actively begin working towards a good solution.
(12:25):
And that may not be repaying evil with evil, right,
it's repaying evil with good. And so how do you
how do you go solve that?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So which which, by the way, since you already mentioned it,
I wasn't going to say it, but by the time
this goes on the air, we will be two weeks
out from our five k. And if you want to
make a small.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Donation or a big donation or a big donation, we
don't we don't want to limit your donation. I would
you like to make a donation?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I would. I would love it if if somebody who
normally isn't a part of heritage, because you know, a
lot of people who listen to this are part of
our community anyway, and they're like, I have already heard
about this, Yes, but there has to be.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Thousand, thousands of people who don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
What we're talking about. Would you do me a favorite?
Go to Heritage Church dot com slash five k. Everything's
on there, so if to donate or watch the video
find out more about it herdichurch dot com slash five
k making donation, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah. So if you're asking the question because you've had
people tell you you seem really angry lately, then let
that be God's way of saying, hey, you're starting to
cross the line. Yeah, right, don't use Bible versus to
justify your anger. But if you're feeling a holy anger
or a righteous indignation towards some kind of wrong thing
(13:35):
in society, and you're wondering at my sinning, well no,
you're not sinning necessarily, as long as you direct that
in a way that causes you to then address this
issue in a healthy, godly way. Right. So people are
not your enemy. Satan is our enemy, and so we
don't fight people. We fight the actions of Satan in
society and we did so. Yeah, it's great, it's great. Hey, thanks,
(13:58):
good question, Bill, that's great.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
All of those answers are people, you know, people wonder
about those, so that's why they're called stump the pastors
because because and sometimes stump the pastors are I don't
know right right because depending on the question. But this
is something I've heard so many times, So thanks Bill
for asking.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I've thought several times it would be fun to do
Stump the pastor week. Oh if we could get enough
people to write in questions, if we could get like
one hundred questions, we could do three or four day
let's let's let's.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Let's announce it right now after the Dangerous Prayers series. Yeah,
let's do a five day stint where we do a
stump the pastor, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Not make the whole episode.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
I was going to say, the one question may not
carry us the whole episode.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, but if we get if we get a hundred questions,
we could just filter through them and find the ones
that would fill up the twenty five minutes every day.
I think it'd be fun.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it'd be fun. Okay, So there it is. There's
your assignon. People. If you want to see this series
come into fruition, then comment on YouTube right now, or
comment online or email us at info at the Bobble
Guys dot com and we would love to get your
stuff to past their questions.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Cool, well that's neat. Well there you go. All right,
Well I get permission from des right, right, because we
only have we only have the appearance of being in
control of this podcast, but we know who the real
puppet master is. Yes, yep, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Even no matter how angry we get, we are still
commanded to forgive Ooh, you're right. And that leads us
to this next segment, or this next passage where Jesus
forgives Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Well, good transition.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
That was actually a good transition. That was not a
bad transition.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
No, that was a very good one. So we're going
to pick up on at Luke chapter twenty three, verse
thirty two. It says to others, both criminals were led
out to be executed with him talking about Jesus right,
and when they came to a place called the Skull
or Galgatha, they nailed him to the cross, and the
criminals were also crucified, one on his right and one
on his left. Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they
(16:00):
don't know what they are doing, and the soldiers gambled
for his clothes by throwing dice. The crowd watched and
the leader scoffed he saved others, They said, let him
save himself, as if he really is God's Messiah, the
chosen One. The soldiers mocked him too by offering him
a drink of sour wine. They called out to him,
if you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.
(16:20):
A sign was fashioned above him with these words, this
is the king of the Jews. One of the criminals
hanging beside him scoffed, So you're the Messiah? Are you
prove it by saving yourself and us two while you're
at it? But the other criminal protested, don't you fear
God even when you've been sentenced to die. We deserve
to die for our crimes. But this man hasn't done
anything wrong. And then he said, Jesus, remember me when
(16:42):
you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure
you today you'll be with me in Paradise. And by
this time it was about noon, and darkness fell across
the whole land, until three o'clock the light from the
sun was gone, as suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary
of the temple was torn down the middle. Then Jesus shouted, Father,
I entrust my spirit into your hands and with those words,
(17:02):
he breathed his last.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Wow, there's a lot in there.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yes, well, I think the big, the dangerous prayers Father
forgive them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, that is definitely the focus of the topic. Uh.
And we can go on forever about everything else that's
in there. Uh. But I don't know why. I just
got super emotional thinking about the criminal. You know. He
you know, here's this criminal who doesn't have a name,
just known as the criminal.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, and one day we're criminal one and criminal two.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Right, We're gonna get to heaven. And I'm you know,
there's a lot of questions. I think that God will
indulge us with these questions. I do, I do. I
think I think we'll have time, obviously sure to explore
every question that we have and uh that we have
now on this earth. And I think that, uh, I
I would love to talk to this criminal. The the
idea that that one of them, you know, is scoffing
(17:55):
and then the other is completely recognizing that in belief
that he's the son of God and saying, don't you
fear God? He's saying, how dare you talk to God
this way? I mean, he is he is a believer,
you know, keep in mind that. It did say that
there were so many people there at that what am
(18:17):
I What am I trying to say?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Pass Over week, Yes, pass over fester. The city was
just it was bursting at the seams at this point.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And it said that, It said many were there because
they had heard that he had raised Lazarus from the dead.
So his popularity had grown to such a degree to where,
you know, people had heard his claims to be the
Messiah at this time. You know, he held nothing back
and so he had done nothing wrong. Everybody knew it.
This is even a testament of the public, you know.
(18:45):
You know sometimes when when something happens and there's a patsy,
it's like you can't sort of I just watched it yesterday.
I watched the movie where everybody knew that what was
happening was unjust and this person who was the patsy
didn't deserve to get fired from his job. But everybody
knew it. Everybody knew it, but nobody wanted to talk
about it because everybody was afraid of the authorities. That
(19:05):
happened just last night, and so here it is. This
man makes a statement that represents like everybody here knows
that this man is in a sense everybody here knows
he's done nothing wrong, and this man recognizes Jesus. Anyway,
that's not the focus of the dangerous prayer.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I want to point out one interesting thing to me.
This guy on the cross, maybe in this specific moment
in history, had the most faith of maybe everybody else
on the planet, because Jesus came preaching the Kingdom of God,
(19:46):
and when you're naked and nailed to the cross, the
kingdom seems like it should be over.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Everybody lost hope, all the disciples lost.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Hope, and only the guy on the cross next to
him said, I still believe in your kingdom.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Is that an original thought right now?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Isn't that neat?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Because that's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Peter Peter lied and denied. James and the Mary's they're
they're standing back in the crowd fear.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, and uh and uh. Everybody can't believe or understand. Yeah.
And it says that they didn't understand, they didn't remember
his words, they didn't know what was happening. And it
says only after he was resurrected then they remembered the
promise he told them, right, So they had lost all hope,
they were out of they were motivated, out of fear.
They all ran, they were all in hiding. Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And then and this guy, this one guy said, Jesus,
remember me when you show.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Up in Paradise before the veil rents in two before
the earthquake. Is the Roman soldier?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, made a statement and the thing he had heard
Jesus say was his father forgive them. They don't know
what they've done. And he had no hope for forgiveness
except that.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Right, and then he what a thought? Yeah, whats so thought? Anyways,
Jesus says, I really want.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
To meet this guy. You really want to meet this guy.
I'm going to find this guy.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So yeah, hey, maybe you guys have been neighbors in heaven.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Maybe yes, maybe so maybe God will honor that. So
so the so the prayer Father forgive them for they
don't know what they are doing. Charlie Kirk's wife prayed that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Just just we saw it all over social media and uh,
what an unbelievable thing. So the nation right now reacted
and are marveling at the fact, like, how can anybody
forgive the shooter of your of your of your husband. Yeah,
and uh, and we've heard stories like this. I mean,
it doesn't even have to be Charlie Kirk's wife, which
(21:43):
is in recent news, but it could be you know, like, uh,
I'm sure you've heard this. Have you? Have you read
or seen YouTube or even documentaries where uh, the the
victim's wife forgives the criminal. I've actually seen it documentary
where they became best friends and she led him to
(22:04):
christ and he was on death row and she mentored
him and walked him through and he was there for
a couple of years, and eventually she was a part
of the appeal to get him off of death row. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I mean, like, which is an honest it's hard to
wrap your head around that kind of thing. So forgiveness.
And I've told my story many times, coming from a
life of abuse and those kinds of things early on,
my biological father was a very bad man before he
became a Christian and my dad adopted me and my
life changed, right, so everything was different between my biological
father and my dad. And my dad just went to
(22:41):
heaven here recently, so I missed him. I just ran
across some photos of him in my desk yesterday. Thought
about him for a while, but my biological father was
violent towards my mother and I, very very abusive for
a very long time. For thirty something years, I never
heard anything from him at all after he gave him.
After he gave me up for adoption, one day he
(23:02):
reached out. He sent me an email said that he'd
seen all my messages online, seen what God was doing
in my life, and he said, I hope that you
believe in redemption because God's changed me over the last
several years. He got sober and gave his life to Christ,
and his life had changed, and he said, I hope
you can forgive me. So then when I met him,
(23:23):
met him one time, he confessed how he treated me
and my mom and that it was wrong, and that
he said, you know, I don't think you could have
been who you grew up to be if you'd stayed
in my life. You know, I would have destroyed that.
But God had to take you away from me, and
that was the best thing. But I hope you can
forgive me. And I told him the words, I do
(23:46):
forgive you, But I don't know that I felt like
I forgave him until I found out after that conversation,
maybe thirty minutes later he told me that he was
dying of cancer and asked me to do his funeral.
And then I was faced with that when he did
die of cancer, I was faced with that whether or
not I was going to do his funeral. And I
realized forgiveness, like Charlie Kirk's wife just did or whatever,
(24:08):
publicly is not saying what you did is okay, correct,
it's not. It's not saying ah, no, big eie. It
was a big deal. It was a devastatingly big deal.
This is the most devastating thing. You nearly ruined my life,
right kind of thing, and then your mom. But what
I realized was in Romans chapter twelve, he says, don't
(24:31):
repay evil with evil, repay evil with good. And then
he says, because Vengeance's mind says the Lord, I will repay.
What I realized is forgiveness really is just me giving
up my right to prosecute you and judge you and
execute you. And I'll give that over to God. God,
you do what you need to do with him. He
(24:53):
you know what he did. He did die, and he
did have to go stand before his maker, and he
did have to give an account, right, and that released
me on that day when I realized I'm not saying
it's okay, I'm saying it's God's business, not mine anymore.
I'm giving them. And dude, I got set free from
the bitterness and the resentment that i'd had in all
(25:14):
that time prior when I finally realized, Okay, I'm not God.
I'm going to give him over to God. And God's
going to do what God's going to do for justice,
not me, right, And that's what says free. And so
when Jesus says, Father, forgive them, they don't know what
they're doing, Jesus is actually leading on behalf of those
who deserve judgment. And that's a whole other level.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Man.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Right, personal forgiveness is I don't have to judge you.
But this is he's advocating for them now, and that's
next level.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that's definitely next level. And really there's so much
in that statement because he's saying they don't understand, almost
implying like if they understood, it would be a whole
different thing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Right, So Father forgive them because they're acting at ignorance.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
It was the alcohol in him that was doing it.
He wasn't that way when he was sober. He was
just that way when he was drunk. Here's just the
problem was he's drunk all the time, right, And Jesus
is understanding, we're drunk on our sin. We are are
consumed by the evil that is in us, to the
point we don't even really know the depths of our
hearts really, right, We're not very self aware. And Jesus
(26:22):
is just like, they have no idea what they're doing,
so forgive them. He looked at us, He looked at
his his the soldiers, his killers. He looked at them
with a compassion that I hope we can find in
our own hearts. That they're like children. They're just stumbling along,
stumbling around, consumed by evil. They have no idea how
(26:43):
this is ruining them and everything around them. And if
we can start to have that kind of compassion towards
the evils we see in society, maybe we can come
with far more power. Because it was right after that
prayer that this criminal goes Jesus, I want what you have, yeah, right,
and the world will want what we have when we
step up and we're able to say, God, you fix it.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah. What a great podcast. I rate this top notch.
All right, that's a good one. Yeah, it's a good conversation,
good conversation. All right. Well, hey, hopefully we will see
you tomorrow on the Bibble guys,
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