June 9, 2025 • 18 mins
Welcome, writers and book lovers. The Bleeders is a podcast about book writing and publishing. Make sure you subscribe to the companion Substack: https://thebleeders.substack.com/welcome
Today’s guest is Hannah Howard, author of the memoirs Feast and Plenty. In this episode, Hannah returns to the pod to share her insights on surviving the publishing rollercoaster, aka what it's like when you’re on submission and you get your happy ending twice. She opens up about navigating rejection, the lessons she’s learned along the way, and offers a generous dose of encouragement for writers in the thick of it. This episode is part explainer, part pep talk, and not to be missed by anyone trying to publish a book. Follow Hannah on Instagram @hannahmhoward.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
Today’s guest is Hannah Howard, author of the memoirs Feast and Plenty. In this episode, Hannah returns to the pod to share her insights on surviving the publishing rollercoaster, aka what it's like when you’re on submission and you get your happy ending twice. She opens up about navigating rejection, the lessons she’s learned along the way, and offers a generous dose of encouragement for writers in the thick of it. This episode is part explainer, part pep talk, and not to be missed by anyone trying to publish a book. Follow Hannah on Instagram @hannahmhoward.
The Bleeders is hosted by Courtney Kocak. Follow her on Instagram @courtneykocak and Bluesky @courtneykocak.bsky.social. For more, check out her website courtneykocak.com.
Courtney is teaching some upcoming workshops you might be interested in:
- Start a Newsletter to Supercharge Your Platform, Network and Business: https://writingworkshops.com/products/start-a-newsletter-to-supercharge-your-platform-network-business-zoom-seminar
- Land Big Bylines by Writing for Columns: https://writingworkshops.com/products/land-big-bylines-by-writing-for-columns-zoom-seminar
- The Multi-Passionate Writer's Life: https://writingworkshops.com/products/the-multi-passionate-writers-life-zoom-seminar-with-courtney-kocak
- How to Build a “Platform” for Writers Who Shudder at the Thought: https://writingworkshops.com/products/how-to-build-a-platform-for-writers-who-shudder-at-the-thought-zoom-seminar
- Creating Your Podcast: https://www.roadmapwriters.com/products/creating-your-podcast-0
- Podcasting for Writers: How to Start, Sustain & Grow Your Podcast: https://writingworkshops.com/products/podcasting-for-writers-how-to-start-sustain-grow-your-podcast-4-week-zoom-workshop
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
There's nothing to writing.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All you do is sit down at a typewriter.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And bleed.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey bleeders, Welcome to you the second episode in our
What to Expect when You're on Submission series. Today, I
am bringing you a conversation with the wonderful Hannah Howard,
author of the memoirs Feast and Plenty, both fantastic books
that I have read and loved. And Hannah is not
only a returning guest you should check out her previous episode,
(00:38):
but she was also one of the first people to
read an early draft of my manuscript for Girl Gone Wild.
This was back when I was taking a Catapult generator
and now Girl Gone Wild has found a home with
Triohouse Press. So despite all of our hell talk, there
are happy endings in publishing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It just takes a while.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Interview, Hannah mentions her editor, Morgan Parker, and Morgan just
so happened to be my MFA advisor at Antioch this
past semester. This conversation with Hannah took place before Morgan
and I started working together, but I loved working with her.
She really helped me crack this structure for my new memoir,
and she's an incredible writer. In her own right, and
(01:21):
I just adore these little six degrees of literary Kevin
Bacon moments. So this episode with Hannah is part explainer,
part pep talk. You know we need one. Hannah gets
real about rejection and what really happens behind the scenes
in traditional publishing. Plus she shares some seriously solid advice
for surviving the submission slog. So, without further ado, here
(01:45):
is Hannah.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm Hannah Howard. I'm the author of the memoirs Feast,
True Love, In and Out of the Kitchen and Plenty,
a memoir of food and family. I've been chatting to
a really good friend of mine. We've been in a
writing group together for twelve years now, and she is
super talented and prolific, and she's a fiction writer and
she's written multiple novels and she finally found this wonderful
(02:19):
like very fancy agent. And after eighteen months, I want
to say, of crazy edits, they're out on submission with
her novel manuscript and I'm getting these text updates for
her every day, like another rejection. Like I don't know
if I can handle this, This is too much, this
(02:41):
is so hard. How does anyone survive? This what fresh
hell is this? And I'm just like immediately brought back
to my first book. Feast was sold with a book proposal,
and I just remember so well at the time, I
was working as a copywriter for Maurice's Cheese in Long
Island City at this like big warehouse and queens and
(03:04):
I just remember like crying in the bathroom because just
another rejection and it just felt like so much. Yeah,
it's it's a lot. And then I went out on
submission with an also wonderful agent and got back so
many rejections some of what I remember also being like
(03:26):
incredibly touched by many rejections because they would be really
kind and thoughtful and really like picked up on a
lot of what I was trying to do with the book,
and really I felt very seen. But then it was
ultimately a no thank you for whatever reason, even like
I remember one no thank you was because oh we
published a food related memoir like a year ago, and
(03:49):
I was like, what, so what this is different? You know,
like okay, but there you know the reasons are the
reasons are rarely like personal, but of course it feels
so personal because it's a little piece.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Of you, right how long did it that first time?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It took several months. Yeah, it took several months. It
was the second round when we got We ended up
getting a yes and a maybe with revisions and okay.
So I remember we asked the yes if they would wait,
because the revision publisher seemed like it could be worth pursuing.
(04:25):
And I remember the revisions that they asked for. My
book was about working in restaurants and recovering from an
eating disorder, and they asked, can there be more behind
the scenes restaurants stuff and more sex? So I thought, yeah,
like those things were already in there, so it wasn't
like a It didn't feel like an unreasonable ask. So
I remember, okay, so let's just like add some more
(04:48):
of those things. I went through and really gave it
my best try, and then I don't remember what they
asked for next, but I remember that it was like
completely then these oh, actually can we have more of this,
and that it was completely unrelated to those things, and
I kind of felt like, wait, but what about the yeah,
(05:09):
the sex and the restaurant insider stuff. So these people
were feeling a little bit like difficult, And meanwhile, the
editor that I ended up working with She went to
college with me and we had a poetry class together,
and she's actually a wonderful poet. Morgan Parker, she was
an editor for Little A at the time, and I
(05:30):
was just like, oh, I want to work with Morgan,
like she we both lived in Brooklyn. She got it.
She was so smart, she was so insightful. So it
felt like an easy choice. But it took a lot
of nose, a lot of waiting, a lot of tears
to get to that.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh goodness, did you know what to expect going in?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
But it was a happy ending.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, that is a happy ending going into it. Were
you just totally blind or did you have some expectations
and of how it would go? Like did you know
other writers who had been through a similar process?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Not who not so much like I also was kind
of lucky slash overly ambitious, So I you know, I
was a pretty young young at the time. I was
in my late twenties, and the writers who I did
know who published books were less peers than kind of
(06:30):
like maybe mentors or professors or people who were in
that sort of position. And one of my frustrations that
I am like hoping and I think you're doing really
good work to remedy this, and I hope to do
the same. Is like people were so opaque about the
whole process of this and kind of acting like it
(06:52):
was some sort of like secret society that I couldn't
be privy to. Though that was how it felt anyway
when I was on the other side of it, and
I just feel like, there's no need for it to
be that way. And I really loved talking about like
the process of all this, and I had no idea
what was going on, and I was really lucky to
(07:12):
have an amazing agent who really hold my hand, and
I'd be like, well, what am I supposed to do?
What am I supposed to say? And she was very
patient and transparent and just shared. So I felt, really,
I feel really grateful she's still my agent. But I
think that was part of what made the process as scary,
as just the complete like lack of insight into like
(07:32):
how it actually works and what happens and what was
going to happen next at any given moment.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, so I almost felt like I had less skin
in the game in the getting the agent process. I
was like, whatever, it's a numbers game, you know, like
I was less attached at that stage, and then at
this stage it almost feels like more precious. Though I
(07:57):
totally understand what you're saying about, Like some of the
nos feel like, yes, is almost because they're so like nice.
But did you feel that same way? Like I almost
was less attached in the getting the agent than in
the book being out on submission.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, because I feel like you're just that much further
down the road. You have invested that much more work
and time and blood, sweat and tears and your heart
and so yeah, it's like I did feel that way too,
just that right, It's like at this point it was
representing years of work and something that I always cared about.
(08:33):
But the more you put into it, the more you
become attached and committed, and like, the more also you
can see that this these Microsoft word pages or whatever
I write a Microsoft word like that you really want
them to be more than Microsoft word pages, right, And
that desire for me to just like grew and grew.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Oh yes, So the process it sounds like your agent
was great. So did your agent give you a list?
Did you know who you were going out to? Did
you have any involvement in that or since it was
your first time, you were kind of just like you're
the professional, like you pick.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah. I mean she was like very great at right
and sort of including me in this process, and she
would always ask like, do you have anyone in mind?
Do you have any thoughts? And right Usually my answer
was like, I trust you, because I did trust her
and I didn't know, but I do remember looking at
some authors that I admired to see who their publishers were.
(09:38):
So I feel like that's always that was kind of
my only way to navigate this. But she actually, and
as any good agent does, had these relationships to kind
of know like, oh, I remember saying, oh, there's this.
You know, she just moved from this house to this house,
or they changed imprints, and I think they'd be open
to this. And I was just grateful for her knowledge
(10:01):
and wisdom.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So going into the second time you were on submission,
First of all, did you go out with a full
manuscript or was it on proposal? And did you feel
like you knew more about the book proposal process so
you could do that differently, or how did you approach
it the second time?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, so I part of my contract with my first
book feast was like a rite of first refusal, which
apparently is a sort of common thing. So that meant that, yeah,
so I and I could still I could refuse them
right like I could show my publisher a I think
they specifically said in that contract, like three chapters. It
(10:43):
was nice because I felt like a little bit less demanding.
I also had so at the time, Morgan Parker, my
first editor, she left to go become a full time
poet and writer, and I had a new editor assigned
to me, which was a really lucky accident that I
also loved this editor and we developed a good relationship
and she started to ask me like, what are you
(11:06):
thinking about next, and really kind of helped me flesh
out the idea for plenty, my second books. So when
it came time to submit the proposal the first three
chapters and outline, it made sense to me that it
would go to them first. And then I remember talking
(11:28):
to my agent about if we should shop it around
and she was kind of like, you could, but like
let's ask them for a little more money, and you've
had a pretty good experience, so maybe this is like
a great place to continue the relationship. So it felt
like a pretty easy decision to just stick around with
(11:49):
Little A, my publisher for.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Both books awesome, and they were interested. They were like yes,
you know, when they got the chapters, they were like,
let's do it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, they were like, yeah, yes, let's do it. They
were very enthusiastic. But just you know, as we're being
like open here, I showed them a third proposal that
they were like no, thank you. So it wasn't like
a guaranteed yes, but they were very enthusiastic about plenty nice.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
So I guess where are you at today, Like you've
had these two books out, is there something else coming
down the pike or yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So right, So I wrote two books that were both
food related memoirs, and then I wrote a third book
proposal about multi level marketing, a nonfiction book proposal totally different.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh, fascinating. I think we talked about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, probably. And I was really excited about this because
it's been a fascination of mine and I put I
did a lot of research and we got close. We
got some publishers that you know, called for meetings but
ultimately is not yet found to home. And so I
have this new project that's completely uncharted territory for me,
(13:09):
I'm trying to use some of that research and work
on fiction. So I'm just trying something new. It's totally new,
and I have no idea how, where, what's going to
come of it. But it feels really exciting and really
terrifying to be just like trying something that I have
not done before in any way.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Oh that's exciting. I'm curious how you are you thinking about?
For me? It's so hard to let something I love go,
Like for that nonfiction version of the multi level marketing,
Are you like, maybe this is going to have a
resurgence in five years and like maybe you know, I
could go out with it again, or are you like
this is dead?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I would never say it was dead, Like I always
have like a little flicker of hope. You never know,
right right, Yeah, yeah, you never know. So I am
not sure what's going to become of it. I love
the idea of turning it into fiction because I feel
like as creative people where like we planted these seeds
and we don't know, Like you don't know what form
(14:11):
of project is going to take, Especially if you're out
with submission, it's so out of your hands. Right, Like
you don't know who's going to say yes, what they're
going to want from it. But I feel like we
just keep doing our thing, and I am optimistic that
all this work I put into it is for something
I just don't know yet what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yes, Oh that's such a good takeaway. So do you
have any advice for writers who are new to being
on submission in terms of I mean it could be
practical advice, like you know, how to politically handle it
or you know whatever, or like emotional advice like how
(14:55):
to stay sane.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, I don't have the practice. Cool advice is kind
of like you've gotten so far if you're on submission,
Like you've done the hard stuff, right, like you and
your laptop or your notebook, Like you've done that, and
so now it's out of your hands, which is like
amazing and awful.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So then that's where my emotional advice comes in, where
I think like distraction is the best, Like it's a
great time to like start a new project that's completely different,
whether that's a writing project or like a different kind
of life project. I don't know, like become a baker.
I don't know, like I think whenever you can kind
of channel because it's so hard, Like as writers, it's
(15:37):
very tangible in a way to be able to like
sit down and write something, but then to be on submission,
you're you're not doing anything like you're it's it's just
so that's for me, like so hard to just feel like, Okay,
now it's it's gone. And so I think if there's
something else that you can do that's unrelated, worry about
that and then trust like that something amazing is going
(16:01):
to come of it, and it might not be like
exactly what you had planned, but it will probably be
something could be even better.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, amazing? Is that? Yeah? Is there anything else you'd
like to share about your experience being on submission or
that people should know about the topic?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just feel like talking to writers fellow writers, like,
I think we are so brave to put ourselves and
our voices and you know, all of it out there
into the world. So I just like, good, I'm just
proud of anyone who's on submission because it's not easy.
Like it's really cool that you've gone like ninety I
(16:42):
think by that point you've really gotten like ninety five
percent of the.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Way Oh yes, that's a good place to end.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thank you so much to Hannah. I saw that Hannah
is actually teaching an upcoming book proposal class, so check
out her substack Letters from Hannah for details, and thank
you for joining me for this episode of The Bleeders.
Writing is so much better with friends. I'm your host,
Courtney Cosack, and hey, let's connect on social media. I
(17:10):
am at Courtney Cosak, last name is Kocak. I'm on Twitter,
I'm on Instagram, I'm on Threads, I'm on blue Sky,
I'm on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm everywhere, baby, So
come find me and make sure you're signed up for
the Bleeders Companion substack for all kinds of newsletter exclusives.
There is a link to sign up for that in
the episode description. I send out awesome stuff to my
(17:32):
free subscribers, and I also have a paid subscription where
I take you behind the scenes of all my best buylines.
I've written about my return to stand up comedy and
how I got ready to crush my showcase, my MFA,
and whether or not I think it is worth it.
I also have some mini workshops behind the paywall, so
There is a link to sign up for the newsletter
in the episode description. Make sure you join me over
(17:56):
on substack and join me right back here next week
for another all new episode.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In the meantime, Happy Bleeding
There's nothing to writing.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All you do is sit down at a typewriter.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
And bleed.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey bleeders, Welcome to you the second episode in our
What to Expect when You're on Submission series. Today, I
am bringing you a conversation with the wonderful Hannah Howard,
author of the memoirs Feast and Plenty, both fantastic books
that I have read and loved. And Hannah is not
only a returning guest you should check out her previous episode,
(00:38):
but she was also one of the first people to
read an early draft of my manuscript for Girl Gone Wild.
This was back when I was taking a Catapult generator
and now Girl Gone Wild has found a home with
Triohouse Press. So despite all of our hell talk, there
are happy endings in publishing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It just takes a while.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Interview, Hannah mentions her editor, Morgan Parker, and Morgan just
so happened to be my MFA advisor at Antioch this
past semester. This conversation with Hannah took place before Morgan
and I started working together, but I loved working with her.
She really helped me crack this structure for my new memoir,
and she's an incredible writer. In her own right, and
(01:21):
I just adore these little six degrees of literary Kevin
Bacon moments. So this episode with Hannah is part explainer,
part pep talk. You know we need one. Hannah gets
real about rejection and what really happens behind the scenes
in traditional publishing. Plus she shares some seriously solid advice
for surviving the submission slog. So, without further ado, here
(01:45):
is Hannah.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I'm Hannah Howard. I'm the author of the memoirs Feast,
True Love, In and Out of the Kitchen and Plenty,
a memoir of food and family. I've been chatting to
a really good friend of mine. We've been in a
writing group together for twelve years now, and she is
super talented and prolific, and she's a fiction writer and
she's written multiple novels and she finally found this wonderful
(02:19):
like very fancy agent. And after eighteen months, I want
to say, of crazy edits, they're out on submission with
her novel manuscript and I'm getting these text updates for
her every day, like another rejection. Like I don't know
if I can handle this, This is too much, this
(02:41):
is so hard. How does anyone survive? This what fresh
hell is this? And I'm just like immediately brought back
to my first book. Feast was sold with a book proposal,
and I just remember so well at the time, I
was working as a copywriter for Maurice's Cheese in Long
Island City at this like big warehouse and queens and
(03:04):
I just remember like crying in the bathroom because just
another rejection and it just felt like so much. Yeah,
it's it's a lot. And then I went out on
submission with an also wonderful agent and got back so
many rejections some of what I remember also being like
(03:26):
incredibly touched by many rejections because they would be really
kind and thoughtful and really like picked up on a
lot of what I was trying to do with the book,
and really I felt very seen. But then it was
ultimately a no thank you for whatever reason, even like
I remember one no thank you was because oh we
published a food related memoir like a year ago, and
(03:49):
I was like, what, so what this is different? You know,
like okay, but there you know the reasons are the
reasons are rarely like personal, but of course it feels
so personal because it's a little piece.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Of you, right how long did it that first time?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It took several months. Yeah, it took several months. It
was the second round when we got We ended up
getting a yes and a maybe with revisions and okay.
So I remember we asked the yes if they would wait,
because the revision publisher seemed like it could be worth pursuing.
(04:25):
And I remember the revisions that they asked for. My
book was about working in restaurants and recovering from an
eating disorder, and they asked, can there be more behind
the scenes restaurants stuff and more sex? So I thought, yeah,
like those things were already in there, so it wasn't
like a It didn't feel like an unreasonable ask. So
I remember, okay, so let's just like add some more
(04:48):
of those things. I went through and really gave it
my best try, and then I don't remember what they
asked for next, but I remember that it was like
completely then these oh, actually can we have more of this,
and that it was completely unrelated to those things, and
I kind of felt like, wait, but what about the yeah,
(05:09):
the sex and the restaurant insider stuff. So these people
were feeling a little bit like difficult, And meanwhile, the
editor that I ended up working with She went to
college with me and we had a poetry class together,
and she's actually a wonderful poet. Morgan Parker, she was
an editor for Little A at the time, and I
(05:30):
was just like, oh, I want to work with Morgan,
like she we both lived in Brooklyn. She got it.
She was so smart, she was so insightful. So it
felt like an easy choice. But it took a lot
of nose, a lot of waiting, a lot of tears
to get to that.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Oh goodness, did you know what to expect going in?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
But it was a happy ending.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, that is a happy ending going into it. Were
you just totally blind or did you have some expectations
and of how it would go? Like did you know
other writers who had been through a similar process?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Not who not so much like I also was kind
of lucky slash overly ambitious, So I you know, I
was a pretty young young at the time. I was
in my late twenties, and the writers who I did
know who published books were less peers than kind of
(06:30):
like maybe mentors or professors or people who were in
that sort of position. And one of my frustrations that
I am like hoping and I think you're doing really
good work to remedy this, and I hope to do
the same. Is like people were so opaque about the
whole process of this and kind of acting like it
(06:52):
was some sort of like secret society that I couldn't
be privy to. Though that was how it felt anyway
when I was on the other side of it, and
I just feel like, there's no need for it to
be that way. And I really loved talking about like
the process of all this, and I had no idea
what was going on, and I was really lucky to
(07:12):
have an amazing agent who really hold my hand, and
I'd be like, well, what am I supposed to do?
What am I supposed to say? And she was very
patient and transparent and just shared. So I felt, really,
I feel really grateful she's still my agent. But I
think that was part of what made the process as scary,
as just the complete like lack of insight into like
(07:32):
how it actually works and what happens and what was
going to happen next at any given moment.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, so I almost felt like I had less skin
in the game in the getting the agent process. I
was like, whatever, it's a numbers game, you know, like
I was less attached at that stage, and then at
this stage it almost feels like more precious. Though I
(07:57):
totally understand what you're saying about, Like some of the
nos feel like, yes, is almost because they're so like nice.
But did you feel that same way? Like I almost
was less attached in the getting the agent than in
the book being out on submission.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, because I feel like you're just that much further
down the road. You have invested that much more work
and time and blood, sweat and tears and your heart
and so yeah, it's like I did feel that way too,
just that right, It's like at this point it was
representing years of work and something that I always cared about.
(08:33):
But the more you put into it, the more you
become attached and committed, and like, the more also you
can see that this these Microsoft word pages or whatever
I write a Microsoft word like that you really want
them to be more than Microsoft word pages, right, And
that desire for me to just like grew and grew.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Oh yes, So the process it sounds like your agent
was great. So did your agent give you a list?
Did you know who you were going out to? Did
you have any involvement in that or since it was
your first time, you were kind of just like you're
the professional, like you pick.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah. I mean she was like very great at right
and sort of including me in this process, and she
would always ask like, do you have anyone in mind?
Do you have any thoughts? And right Usually my answer
was like, I trust you, because I did trust her
and I didn't know, but I do remember looking at
some authors that I admired to see who their publishers were.
(09:38):
So I feel like that's always that was kind of
my only way to navigate this. But she actually, and
as any good agent does, had these relationships to kind
of know like, oh, I remember saying, oh, there's this.
You know, she just moved from this house to this house,
or they changed imprints, and I think they'd be open
to this. And I was just grateful for her knowledge
(10:01):
and wisdom.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So going into the second time you were on submission,
First of all, did you go out with a full
manuscript or was it on proposal? And did you feel
like you knew more about the book proposal process so
you could do that differently, or how did you approach
it the second time?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yeah, so I part of my contract with my first
book feast was like a rite of first refusal, which
apparently is a sort of common thing. So that meant that, yeah,
so I and I could still I could refuse them
right like I could show my publisher a I think
they specifically said in that contract, like three chapters. It
(10:43):
was nice because I felt like a little bit less demanding.
I also had so at the time, Morgan Parker, my
first editor, she left to go become a full time
poet and writer, and I had a new editor assigned
to me, which was a really lucky accident that I
also loved this editor and we developed a good relationship
and she started to ask me like, what are you
(11:06):
thinking about next, and really kind of helped me flesh
out the idea for plenty, my second books. So when
it came time to submit the proposal the first three
chapters and outline, it made sense to me that it
would go to them first. And then I remember talking
(11:28):
to my agent about if we should shop it around
and she was kind of like, you could, but like
let's ask them for a little more money, and you've
had a pretty good experience, so maybe this is like
a great place to continue the relationship. So it felt
like a pretty easy decision to just stick around with
(11:49):
Little A, my publisher for.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Both books awesome, and they were interested. They were like yes,
you know, when they got the chapters, they were like,
let's do it.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Yeah, they were like, yeah, yes, let's do it. They
were very enthusiastic. But just you know, as we're being
like open here, I showed them a third proposal that
they were like no, thank you. So it wasn't like
a guaranteed yes, but they were very enthusiastic about plenty nice.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
So I guess where are you at today, Like you've
had these two books out, is there something else coming
down the pike or yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So right, So I wrote two books that were both
food related memoirs, and then I wrote a third book
proposal about multi level marketing, a nonfiction book proposal totally different.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Oh, fascinating. I think we talked about that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, probably. And I was really excited about this because
it's been a fascination of mine and I put I
did a lot of research and we got close. We
got some publishers that you know, called for meetings but
ultimately is not yet found to home. And so I
have this new project that's completely uncharted territory for me,
(13:09):
I'm trying to use some of that research and work
on fiction. So I'm just trying something new. It's totally new,
and I have no idea how, where, what's going to
come of it. But it feels really exciting and really
terrifying to be just like trying something that I have
not done before in any way.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Oh that's exciting. I'm curious how you are you thinking about?
For me? It's so hard to let something I love go,
Like for that nonfiction version of the multi level marketing,
Are you like, maybe this is going to have a
resurgence in five years and like maybe you know, I
could go out with it again, or are you like
this is dead?
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
I would never say it was dead, Like I always
have like a little flicker of hope. You never know,
right right, Yeah, yeah, you never know. So I am
not sure what's going to become of it. I love
the idea of turning it into fiction because I feel
like as creative people where like we planted these seeds
and we don't know, Like you don't know what form
(14:11):
of project is going to take, Especially if you're out
with submission, it's so out of your hands. Right, Like
you don't know who's going to say yes, what they're
going to want from it. But I feel like we
just keep doing our thing, and I am optimistic that
all this work I put into it is for something
I just don't know yet what that's going to look like.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yes, Oh that's such a good takeaway. So do you
have any advice for writers who are new to being
on submission in terms of I mean it could be
practical advice, like you know, how to politically handle it
or you know whatever, or like emotional advice like how
(14:55):
to stay sane.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, I don't have the practice. Cool advice is kind
of like you've gotten so far if you're on submission,
Like you've done the hard stuff, right, like you and
your laptop or your notebook, Like you've done that, and
so now it's out of your hands, which is like
amazing and awful.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
So then that's where my emotional advice comes in, where
I think like distraction is the best, Like it's a
great time to like start a new project that's completely different,
whether that's a writing project or like a different kind
of life project. I don't know, like become a baker.
I don't know, like I think whenever you can kind
of channel because it's so hard, Like as writers, it's
(15:37):
very tangible in a way to be able to like
sit down and write something, but then to be on submission,
you're you're not doing anything like you're it's it's just
so that's for me, like so hard to just feel like, Okay,
now it's it's gone. And so I think if there's
something else that you can do that's unrelated, worry about
that and then trust like that something amazing is going
(16:01):
to come of it, and it might not be like
exactly what you had planned, but it will probably be
something could be even better.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, amazing? Is that? Yeah? Is there anything else you'd
like to share about your experience being on submission or
that people should know about the topic?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just feel like talking to writers fellow writers, like,
I think we are so brave to put ourselves and
our voices and you know, all of it out there
into the world. So I just like, good, I'm just
proud of anyone who's on submission because it's not easy.
Like it's really cool that you've gone like ninety I
(16:42):
think by that point you've really gotten like ninety five
percent of the.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Way Oh yes, that's a good place to end.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thank you so much to Hannah. I saw that Hannah
is actually teaching an upcoming book proposal class, so check
out her substack Letters from Hannah for details, and thank
you for joining me for this episode of The Bleeders.
Writing is so much better with friends. I'm your host,
Courtney Cosack, and hey, let's connect on social media. I
(17:10):
am at Courtney Cosak, last name is Kocak. I'm on Twitter,
I'm on Instagram, I'm on Threads, I'm on blue Sky,
I'm on TikTok, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm everywhere, baby, So
come find me and make sure you're signed up for
the Bleeders Companion substack for all kinds of newsletter exclusives.
There is a link to sign up for that in
the episode description. I send out awesome stuff to my
(17:32):
free subscribers, and I also have a paid subscription where
I take you behind the scenes of all my best buylines.
I've written about my return to stand up comedy and
how I got ready to crush my showcase, my MFA,
and whether or not I think it is worth it.
I also have some mini workshops behind the paywall, so
There is a link to sign up for the newsletter
in the episode description. Make sure you join me over
(17:56):
on substack and join me right back here next week
for another all new episode.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
In the meantime, Happy Bleeding
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