October 4, 2024 • 57 mins
On this 100th episode of the Boxing Rush Hour Show, promoter Michael Reyes from Reyes Boxing Inc. goes into detail about his upcoming show (Down & Dirty 12- Oct 19), answers whether he thinks the Saudi takeover in boxing will last and how it does or doesn't effect club show promoters and more. As a bonus, veteran boxing Journalist Michael Woods joins the show towards the middle to add his thoughts on everything boxing.
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Looking to bet on the big (*insert fight here*) this upcoming weekend?Head over to my dedicated page at signupexpert.com/fightsATW to sign up to some of boxing’s best sportsbooks.
Looking to bet on boxing this upcoming weekend?Head over to my dedicated page at signupexpert.com/fightsATW to sign up to some of boxing’s best sportsbooks.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Worldwide, every weight class.
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It's low is he in?
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heavy on to win it. This podcast is to break
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prize right hands taped up and gloves todd sight they made.
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You can easily find it in the description below. All Right,
(01:35):
ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning into The Boxing
Rush Hour Show. My next guest. And before we even
get to my next guest, I just want to point
out that this is the one hundredth episode of The
Boxing Rush Hour Show, which started in January twenty twenty two.
And you know what better way to celebrate that one
hundredth episode by having a boxing promoter Marine Corps veteran
(02:02):
Michael Rayes. What's going on, Michael?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Love in life? I'm back here with you, my man.
So all is great. I don't know why I keep
jumping in on the screen back.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
All right, Hey, you're you're out there. You're an independent promoter,
you're cooking, you're doing shows. But for those that aren't
familiar with with what you've been doing in the in
the Boston, New Hampshire area, New England area, you've been
in the business. You know about five six years. Now,
(02:41):
how was how was your vision? How has your vision
changed from when you started two Now, Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
That's a you know, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So when I started this whole rigor of my role,
let's see, I mean one didn't ever think I'd be
doing this. So that's the starters. I had purchased a
jim My grown up, as we talked about back in
the day I grew up in boxing.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Left it. I had purchased a gym.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I convinced myself, hey, look, let's train some fighters. There's
a way to help your gym get busier and in
pretty decent.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Let's call him a world class b side.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
The guy comes into my gym, tells me he wants
me to manage him.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And I was like, no, no, I'll just train you.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
And he was like, no, no, If you trained me,
then my promoter can take me away from you, So
why don't you be my manager? Basically convinced me that
I needed to manage him. Worst thing I ever did
in my whole life ever, But that led me to
(03:57):
a whole series, a really great experience signing other guys.
Realizing that in this industry, you know, besides training, because
I do wear that hat for a fair amount of
international fighters. But besides training, that promoting is my is
my skill enjoying that process, and that's what brought.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Me to here.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Okay, but from this, from when you started promoting though
to now, like, how how has that vision you know evolved?
I would say, that's go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
That's that's amazing. That that is now.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I understand that you even wanted to go even deeper
more Granule. I mean, you know, my very first show,
I mean lucky.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You can call me. You can call me lucky. You
could call me an idiot, depends on what side you
stand on.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
My very first self promoted show all by myself, How
to be a UFC card, that I jumped on and
had the option to do up in Maine with the
guys from Murphy's Boxing, great venue, shitty fights. Excuse my language,
(05:19):
but they were right as my first cracket, you know,
being a true on my own person, and I saw
a whole host of problems. Attendance was horrible, overworked.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And so that started off my vision.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
And I stayed lucky because not very many people have
the ability to have TV in their back pocket, and
I did right off the bat and it stuck with me.
I think that the learning experience has helped me really
craft what I want. As we've spoken in the past
about I have this vision for my series Down and Dirty,
(06:02):
which we're on Down and Dirty twelve coming up here
in three weeks, extremely excited about it. The vision has
just grown from venue size to venue size, to title
fights to just this amazing, amazing dream that I never
(06:24):
really thought of because you get down these lines and
you know, little boyish mentality, Oh, I want to be
the next Bob Aram. I want to be don King. No, no, man,
you don't have twenty million dollars to lose, right, you
don't have all of this stuff that it takes to
(06:48):
get there. And you're not playing with other people's money.
You're playing with your real money, your money.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So you know, for where I.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Started to where I am today, both the vision, it's
always stayed true. Put on great fights, give people entertaining opportunities,
give fighters the.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Chance to show their skill and builds. And yeah, I
mean that's and as we've been doing happened.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
All right, And so in hearing all that, would you
say that having realistic expectations has helped you get to
this point with the company.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I think that is a good way of
looking at it.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I think that I set realistic expectations.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I don't think I'm gonna make a ton of money.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I don't believe that I'm gonna make, you know, thirty
grand on each card. And I don't go in. I
go in knowing that, hey, I'm gonna lose. Maybe I'm
gonna break even. But maybe my kids build.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Up a little and they.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Crowd enjoyed it just a little bit more this time,
you know. So yeah, I think I think you're right
on point the saying setting realistic expectations has allowed me
to be here on number twelve today.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
All right, and then what challenges did you come across
along the way that you might have not expected?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I mean, it's funny, you know. I think.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Every card you come across challenges you don't expect. Yeah,
but you should, right. So, I don't know that anything
ever has caught me off hand.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I've had fighters pull out on the scale or the
day of weigh ins. I've had people call me, my
own fighters call me and say they're not going to
make it. I've had police not show up for the
detail and I had to deal with that. I've had
ambulances not show up or show the wrong one. I've
always had something thrown at me. But all you can
(09:10):
do is take a deep breath and find a solution.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
YopE.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And then.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Now a couple weeks ago you had Down and Dirty eleven.
It was on September fourteenth. I believe it was like
a like a Puerto Rican parade weekend over there in
your area. You had looks like you had Carlos Gonzalez,
feather Away, Anthony Velaskiez junior middleweight that that scored victories there.
How was it putting on a show and you going
(09:40):
up against you know, the big win in Vegas, which
was Canelo versus Berlanga or did it really not have
an effect because of it being you know, a local
show that people wanted to support those fighters.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
I feel like I want to be like Oscar de
la Hoya right now. I'm like Canelo fuck you?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You know? Uh, you know. The truth is.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
The Canelo is a force, right, I mean, it's just factual,
it is what it is. He affected the UFC, you know,
so if he's affecting a sport that doesn't technically have
anything to do with him. Yeah, I'm sure that. I'm
sure I felt the hurt of.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Of Canelo a little bit. You know. Was that one hundred.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
People who said they didn't want to show up to
my fight because they were going to stay home and
watch a Canlo fighter.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I don't know. It wasn't a direct.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
We still sold twenty two hundred tickets that night for
our venue, so, which is the most that that venue
has ever sold in the history and in literally the
history of the sport. And they've had all kinds of
people there from this area growing fights. I'm not gonna
(11:06):
drop names, but guys that people say are the big promoters,
and they couldn't put that many people in there. So
we did great. Could we have done better? Maybe what
we do better on December fourteenth?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Is it possible Canelo is gonna come out and say
he's gonna fight on December fourteen?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Possibly?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
It seems like every time I put a date out there,
I was like, who design he's fighting on it?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So but yeah, I know, you know, he's he's the draw. Yeah,
it'd be like going up against Dang Davis. He's what
you do.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, And you know, and speaking of that type, of influence.
You know, Turkey isla chic he is, you know, he
is in boxing, you know, both feed in and he
is affecting a lot right now. Now there's some back
(12:00):
and there's some you know, people undecided on what to think.
The one thing is is that they are putting, you know,
top name fighters on their cards and keeping them busy,
but it doesn't leave too much room for guys that
are kind of in the middle. In the middle area. Now,
(12:21):
I've seen as of late that there are fighters that
are in that zone that are a name but maybe
not a big name, that are now kind of going
into these regions where they're they're doing small shows, they're
fighting on small shows. So I guess my question is
do you see do you see that from a local
(12:46):
promoters lens that there are fighters that maybe are on
a bigger promotion that are now being kind of farmed
out to smaller shows to be busy, to stay busy.
Uh And is that some and and is that something
that you would potentially entertain as a local promoter to
have somebody that has some sort of name that people
(13:06):
recognize be on one of your shows.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
So we'll break that down in a couple different ways. One,
let's Turkey Ala chic. Yeah, Saudi is definitely affecting the
way this sport is running right now, and it's amazing.
Jake Paul did the same thing, right, there's always a
new person who's gonna affect the way that this sport
(13:32):
is quote unquote Rand.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
PBC did the same thing. You know.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
De lo Air and Golden Boy did the same thing.
They all do the same thing. They come out, they're
gonna put more money in these fighters pockets.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
They're gonna put on the best shows. They're gonna do this,
they're gonna do that.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Okay, you're gonna do the best that you can do,
and that's just what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So Saudi has deep pockets. How long does it last?
Speaker 5 (13:59):
I don't know, as long as Showtime lasted, as long
as HBO lasted.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Because eventually somebody's gonna.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Be like, no, no, we're not gonna just keep throwing
money away, right like because it doesn't make sense. Like it.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Still has to make sense. Businesses still have to make sense,
you know.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
So to answer that question, the top of the Top
is doing better than they ever have, right and and
that's great, and that is allowing for the mid level
guys that were being showed up by these larger promotions
to now come back down to probably where they would
(14:44):
have always have been anyways, a good club level fighter
who was ready to step up and be an opponent
or something like that. But you know it, we're we're
truly looking at it. There's still some TV that's out there.
There's the the Amazon Prime deal. They're doing their first
free fight through Amazon with Tim Zu and a bunch
(15:07):
of guys in that Orlando area that they're producing in
part with Amari and the Caribe.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And those guys. We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
You know, I've sat and watched these de zone shows
look like average, you know, or they present this four
and o versus this four and oh, but it's a
fake four and oh, so they're still killing the guy
and it's all fucking smoking mirrors. Meanwhile, on the club
level shows, we have guys who are four and sixteen,
(15:41):
but the fights are going four rounds and the guys
only winning by a split decision, and they're exciting, and
you know what I mean. So I think that we'll
see some guys come back to the club level circuit
and move around depending on where they're at, how big.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Their name really is. You know, the problem is that
guys like me abe, we need to put.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Asses in seats, and the idea of those guys don't don't.
No one gives a No one gave a fuck when
they were on showtime, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Like they were they were opening up when there was
nobody in the crowd, so no one gives a fuck.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, No, that's that's that's an interesting take. Yeah, because
I mean I've seen him. I've seen Uh, who was
it that I saw? I saw this this one guy
that was PBC guy Wing on Fox Sports won a
bunch of times. He was doing a club show in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And then.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Uh, this guy from a former world champion from Jersey,
I can't remember. He runs a chicken place, he's fighting
on pro Box. So like I've seen, I'm seeing more
of that because it doesn't look like there are enough
shows for those level guys. And like what you said,
you know, they may or may not have a name,
and you know, you're not in the business of taking
(17:04):
that risk. You rather, you know, provide entertainment value because
there's nothing like home cooking, right everybody loves some home cooking.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
That's it, man, you know, like I'm you know, the
guys that are jumping on those names, the Gary jonas Is,
the Aris, the you know, the Tablas, the you know,
like great for you, great for you, that you're gonna
jump on that name. But those people aren't packing in.
(17:34):
What they're really hoping is that that guy's gonna get
the chance to fight on the Saudi card. And because
they put them on the car, they signed them some contracts,
and now they're hoping they're gonna get two hundred three hundred,
four hundred five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, yep, are they I don't know who knows?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Who knows? They might, they might not.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
You know, they're taking the risk of spending thirty or
forty grand up front to do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Because it might happen, it might not.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
And in my experience right now, the money isn't what
everyone thinks it is. And it doesn't matter. I don't
care who's the one signing the check behind that. I
don't care if it's Saudi, I don't care if it's
any hearn, I don't care if it's Odell Hoya. They
call the same way the rest of us do. What's
(18:20):
the cheapest I can get a fight for, because in the.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
End of the day, everyone's money's made the same way.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
How much sponsorship did you get, what hotel, what casino
gave you a you know X amount of dollars? How
much did you sell at the fighting gate? And how
much did you spend? And did you make any money?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yep, only one person doesn't look at those numbers that way.
Everybody else does.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
And listen before I go to my next question, I
got a surprise guest joining us, somebody that you know
very well. Let's see where he is. He is coming
on shortly. You gotta turn on your camera though.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Oh jesus, Oh Mike, motherfucking what.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Can you see me?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No? You got but I can know you, Jesus.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It sounds like does he sound like?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, No, I'm not done speaking. Oh God, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah. And we were getting we were just about to
get into the the nice uh down in dirty twelve
parts too. So you came just in time, dare Mike.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Yeah, wait, I wish you would have been here a
few minutes ago. We conna, we gotta trash talked about
thirty five promoters.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well we can still do that. Hold on, what's my settings? Hey?
Why am I not stupid.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
On the bottom?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
No? No, no, I got it.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Hey, you guys, You guys would think they just invented
the zoom like yesterday. Right there you go. I'm going
to give myself some light from the refrigerator.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh nice, Look at him, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Adding, guys, I'm sorry, I'm late. I was walking the dog.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Is that what we call it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Whatever it was, that's what we call it. Now, I
apologize for being late.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Party, as they say in your neck of the woods,
rays Catty Caddy.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
He says that he's not a Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
But well, I know, well, I guess I am half
and half or three quarters or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But wait, what did I miss? Who do we trash? So?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
So we were so we were talking about whether Mike
was gonna be holding Turkey's hand or not the next
time he sees him.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Now, no truth, that's exactly what he was saying.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
He was like, do you want to be the next
guy who throws himself at Turkey?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Ala sheek?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Like the guys throw theirself at p Diddy and uh,
And I said no, I can give two ships, okay,
because my my my break.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And in the end of the day, Mike.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
For me, it's how many see how many people do
I put in my shows.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Here on on my level?
Speaker 5 (21:34):
How many sponsors do I find care about my stuff?
And all they're gonna care about is how many eyes
are watching my fights and some mid level guy you know, uh,
Jesse Hard or any of those guys that are putt.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
So No, and so for the answer is I'm not
going to that Diddy party right now.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, I'm good. I'm I don't want to wake up.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
In ten years and be like, oh Tregiellis she got
you too.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Eh.
Speaker 6 (22:07):
The thing is this, if they contacted me right now,
if they contacted you right now and said, hey, we
got a little you know something and we see you
working in it, would we work with Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
We would, right.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
I don't have any problems working against uh, you know,
because of ideology or any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It ain't it.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
I will say this if you had asked me that
five years ago, six years ago or whatever. The world
has changed a lot since since then. And what I'm
referring to is Saudi Arabia and America and how we
get along and how we don't. And you remember the
(22:54):
journalist that was killed whatever twenty eighteen or something twenty
seventeen was, I think it was, and that was a
big hubbub. But how much the world has changed since then,
and how I see the world is is a lot
different now. I don't think that there's let's put it
(23:16):
this way, boxing is not populated by angels ninety nine
percent of the.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Lot, right, that's just like the world.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
I don't see angels anywhere, you know, I don't see
angels in our government, in their government, in any government
right now. So me in twenty eighteen versus me, now,
that wouldn't be so much. Am I bullshitting myself and
being like, no, well, it's take the bag. I seriously
don't think I am. We could get you all could get,
(23:49):
and we could get and you guys could get much
deeper than me because of your backgrounds, what you know
and military and all that. So I know we took
it into a slightly different direction there, but I wouldn't
have any problems about I don't think taking a bag.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But okay, here, I'll say this, and how do I
say this without well, can I say this.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
If those folks had wanted any help in terms of
like journalism and all that stuff, if they were reaching
had been reaching out to people.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
They I'll say it this way, they kind of.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
People that are very quiet and stealthy about what they're
doing and who they're hiring and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So let's just say.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
I have considered it, and I didn't say no to it.
It did strike me though, when they were starting out
just last year, and I haven't seen the infrastructure being
built outside of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
They're doing the.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Business in America now and right they did the show
in in Cali and.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Wembley. Hello, Hello, Hello. But they're also very insular too,
So in other words.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
It's it's it's boxing, it's uh, we are in flux again.
I can only imagine you, Mike, as far as being
a promoter and seeing this happen and and being like,
oh shit, are they gonna swallow up like everything? And
do I have a freaking place? And so I guess
(25:45):
that's my point here, coming to on on this sort
of turf, like what's all our place in this? If
they get so big that they almost take over all
that almost take over everything.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And the thing is the truth is is that I mean,
I know where you're going, this's Mike, and I don't.
I don't know that you're wrong, except that I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I don't think that any one entity can do what
they think they can do it. I've suddenly watched and
Dana White can put out whatever bullshit ask numbers he
wants to put out.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Because the truth is, the shows of Scott.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Shitty over the years, right, the U have the fights
of today are not the cards that we watched with
Chuck Lydell and Randy Horror and each fight had this like.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Exciting era of like, oh my god, right like and
so now you watch these fights, the first four of them,
multiple hundred, but that's multiple different entities who've done that.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They've broken it up.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
One person can't pull it all together because you know what,
at the end of the day, you still have greed,
and you still have corruption, and you still have and
and I don't give a fuck. The Saudis don't have
They have deep pockets, sure, but.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
This is not an unlimited amount of money.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
And just like they found just like everyone has found
a way to fuck up the HBO contract and to
fuck up the Showtime contract and to fuck up the
Fox contract and soon to fuck up the dis Own contracts.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
They'll fuck up the Saudi contract because they're gonna be
so fucking.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
Disgusting and takes so much, you know that, Like, we
don't want to do this.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
This reminds me of a day in a White riff
that dropped probably just yesterday, right, Abe, Why Abe and
I have talked about this. We white been saying for
how long that he was gonna maybe get into boxing,
for years and years and years, and finally it became
(28:13):
a joke. Abe messaged me the other day with analol like, oh,
you know, come on, you know, let's grain the salt. Basically,
we'll see if it happens and to see, like like,
I don't know if he's gonna do it either, really
because he's like so approaching and then avoiding.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Henna he's gonna do it, I mean, been hold.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
On, hold on yet, I don't know what I know.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
I think I think this was his chat with Iola
that dropped yesterday. He is really I feel like he
does not exactly know how he's gonna do it at
the level he thinks he wants to do it because
he does not want to pay at the same rates
(29:02):
or even approaching anywhere the same rates. So he's basically,
uh put himself into a corner. At the levels of
fights and fighters that he can have, he can simply
not pay. The beef was Naganu. He was talking about
Naganu and it was this was maybe a question after
one of the pressers or what. But someone is like, yo,
(29:24):
the money that guys can get, you know, made that
big money against AJ and White.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Is just like, that's not true.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
You know, if you guys really know people throw around
bullshit numbers and then he proceeds to not inform us,
not tell us you guys we do well, then fucking
tell us.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I mean, you know, let's get that's hard. That's hard
bull Let's look at his actual thing. Let's look at
the way this. We all know that there's an issue.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
The contract ends with ESPN and top rank in twenty
twenty five. That's that's public knowledge. Yeah, I'm not saying
anything that doesn't doesn't exist. Right, So we all know that,
we all know that the UFC is dominated ESPN as
of late. Right, their shows take their shows take precedence.
(30:23):
If they have a show that's on, you know, and
there's a top rank card on top rank weights for
ESPN UFC to finish, right, yep, So we all know that,
so you know by that standard, I would think the
the argument is is that UFC is gonna get ESPN.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, you don't think there's room enough for two two
of those? You don't.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
It's the Titanic and right we are we are in
the boxing is in the lower berth and fuck it,
we're dead. Yeah, well, I think I don't know about that.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I just I think that Dana White's gonna do exactly
what you just said.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
He's gonna go in and he's gonna do the fight.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
The fight's cheaper because he's been doing it with Tom
Loffler on UFC formats. Solfler's fights will come in and
he'll do And let's talk about the Boston show.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
He did.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
Average show, but he did it inside of the BU Stadium,
so smaller, not as large as you know, a top
rank would do their right, So so he does it.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
In that type of setting. It's it's an average show.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
They highlight one or two guys and then everything else
is just very similar to an MVP card, right, Oh,
I have this four and o versus this three and one,
and you're like, yeah, but the three and one is
from fucking Oklahoma City and he has never fought a
fucking soul and the four and ohs five time national champion.
You're not doing anything special, You fake you want to
(32:02):
fake out people?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Sure, right?
Speaker 5 (32:05):
And so Loffler's done a decent job of putting on
a card for sixty to seventy thousand dollars where top
rank cards cost three hundred to four hundred thousand dollars
on a cheap right, So yeah, sure, ESPN probably looks
at it and says, hey, we don't need, right, but
(32:26):
they need the Ta Femal Lopez.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Sure they need you know, Uh, I don't know, they don't.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Any you could say, or I mean selling those things,
but they don't care about the Johnny Bucks, right, They
certainly don't care about you know, uh Francis enough you
faa jack ba right, Like, Like, those aren't the shows
that are that are making ESPN money. So could that
(33:01):
show be traded out for a Tom Loffler Escu event
and still make the same amount of money?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You know what I mean? You know on the big.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
ESPN also is Joe on ESPN.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Can can it make ship into something palatable?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
More? So?
Speaker 6 (33:22):
We sang, huh, yeah, can can we divert a little bit?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Let's we're trying to talk some real talk here.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
We got a Massachusetts guy, I got a half of
Massachusetts guy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
We got a Bronx guy here. I am not always enthralled.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
I'm gonna say I'm usually not enthralled with the top
rank shows too.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And here's why.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I mean the other the other.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Snoother formulaic is the term, and it's kind of paint
by numbers, and I'm not shitting on it. I understand
why they do it. They're building up the next crop
of people. But the shows of the past couple of
years have been very much you know what you're getting,
You're getting your your you started out your four to
zero guys, and now they're nine and oh and now
(34:15):
they're eleven and it's the Jahi's and it's the uh,
you know, the whole crew from the whole crew from
two years ago, a few of which are are standing
up and showing themselves to be and they want to
do better, they want to be better. But I don't know, man,
how much is it resonating how much is it hitting?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Mike. I think it comes down to what you referenced about. Man.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
You you want even matches. You just want even matches,
and when they're not, it fucking suffers. And over the
past couple of years, that formula a little, a little tired,
a little stale. Abe, God, bless abe. Man, he's just
laying out and he's just letting these these numskulls.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, bless you. He didn't. I didn't. I say to you,
what was it there? The last one?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Like?
Speaker 6 (35:07):
What would stop top rank from doing? How about this one?
They're big year end show, big fucking blowout show. We're
not having the same format, right. You know, a couple
of guys are going to fight each other, et cetera,
et cetera, and Stack get motherfuckers stop stop everyone, everyone
stops saying that, stop it.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
And you know that it's not ever Stack.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You know you're sacked, but everyone else not Stack.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
You know, you know what stops that, What stops that
is a whole series of.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Managers and and promoters who have stakes in these games
and kids who have You're you're talking.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Look, let's look at.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
A shoeshoe Carrington A talented fighter for sure, and who
did get clipped the other day and pulled it back together.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
But how much money is tied into shoeshoe right now?
Speaker 5 (36:00):
For them to throw that away against against against you
throw them in against you know, at this point right now,
you throw shoeshoe in against you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Like you lost, they lost that fight.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
The fight would have been, uh, you know versus the
little killer who.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Got knocked anyway.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
No, no, not.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Anyway, that's it, not not yet anyways anyways, a beast
in his own right right like, that's there's not much
to argue about that.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But the kid who.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
Rob could be a good one now, but he he's
just pulling it back together after his loss.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Uh, looked out by the probox kid there.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Oh you're talking about Angelo Leo.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
Angel Leo's fight, right, No one cares now, nobody cares
to see Angelo Leo fight, right Like, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
But I need.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I need BBC a little bit more than.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
He did a good job. They threw me. Yeah, you
got you got the fights.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
They put guys against each other, but they went out
of business doing.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
It, they did, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Like because the money people's you know, what if people
want good fights? If people want if the people want boxing,
then it's gonna take them to speak up, because it's
saying I want good fights and then paying for Berlanga.
And Canelo doesn't say I want good fights. It says
(37:34):
I'm gonna do whatever the fuck you tell me to do,
because I'm sheep.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
You're You're exactly right, And Aaron are gonna come back
to the og with his wisdom. Aaron always said he
will say this periodically when people, when media is saying,
and well, what about this? Why aren't we getting this?
Why aren't we getting that? And Bab will get like
a little exasperated and be like the people, I'm not
gonna do the Aaron boys.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
The people got to ask for it. The customers have
to ask for it. Going back to Abe and and
me again, you know, we chat and we talk.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
We get on the same wave blank because that's my guy,
and and he loves me and I love him like
you rays, you know, but know Nabe a little longer.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Right, okay, And.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
I think that I'm gonna say I think that was
kind of part of our point. We kind of ganged
up a little bit, and on social we've been making
a point to speak up for the customers, speak up
for I'm going to say, speak up for myself, speak
up for ourselves about the pay per view model. Right,
and just how Hello, I'm doing a call. What are
(38:46):
you doing?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I love you. I'll see you later. Actually doing a call.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
She probably thinks, I'm like whatever, that's my daughter seventeen
and she's outside, and I'm in an apartment building and
it's the first floor, and that's some I gotta got
a studio. So as I as I was saying, what
was I saying?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Paper?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, And and we were hammering it a little bit.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
I've been hammering it for a fucking long time.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Now.
Speaker 6 (39:23):
Hello, yo, Read the room, guys, and what's the room.
The room is people's levels of discretionary income. In the
past couple of years with inflation has been fucking shitty,
and you are in this time, you guys are popping
up your now average average pay per view prices to
(39:44):
ninety eight pop.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Read the fucking room. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
The problem is is that the room still fucking pays
it like everything.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Else you are, you are, here's here's your food for thought.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah, baby, if you if you wanted the truth, those
motherfuckers could go out and support small shows them get.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
More people, There is more power.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
There are more fights on a regular basis in people's
hometowns than there are.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
On that large level.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
Yeah, it's straight and other time we just gotting a
bit of kids inside on the table.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It just if they just support these these kids when.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
They're starting out and and see it at that level,
then yeah, you'll get those fights because.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
You forced that.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Mikey.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
What let's break it down. What you're talking about is
you you brought it up before a.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Couple of minutes ago. Investments.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
They see when you see it as investments that fuck
that fucked with you, and top rank will say this
more than anyone else, right, they're like.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
No, what do you want us to do?
Speaker 6 (40:54):
We've invested you know, they're not going to tell you
the number, but it's hundreds of thousands of dollars in people.
So that makes it fucking hard. That makes it hard.
I don't know how to make it better, but I
don't know. Bottom line, we I think are gonna see
now a true test if Turkey Alo Chic sticks with it,
(41:18):
keeps booking fights to people want to see, and keeps
making it more not more more accessible, lower price pointing.
Then we're actually gonna see do we fucking grow eyeballs
or are we sort of stagnant?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Are we at a ceiling? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
We might be at a ceiling. This might be sort
of the amount of people that are gonna be.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Following our sport or not. I am not. I don't
I'm not that optimistic.
Speaker 6 (41:53):
Here's one reason why you need.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
An You need a American star.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
I don't want to say you need a white star,
but that helps a lot with marketing.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
You know what kind of guy you need. You need
an ass kicker. So once again it comes down to talent.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
And now my guy a bless him and you too,
And you guys are both international. Abe over the past
several years has latched onto the Japanese more. That's filling
a niche for him. That doesn't fill a niche for
the people in America. So much Abe is hardcore? How
many other people are doing that? And then what do
(42:36):
I have in common within a way? Yeah, I love
to watch his fight and stuff, but you need that
identification and that's why boxing also has that ceiling. Oh
or an international sport dude for some reason. Sorry not sorry,
but I just don't have too much of an interest
in Janabac or.
Speaker 8 (42:59):
Fin CON's why quite possibly one of the best, Well
that's that's why, quite possibly one of the best middleweights
in history will go.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Down as a board as a snooze.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
Right, A triple G had great skills, he was a
great fighter, and he never got the fights that defined
his true ability, you.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
Know, because of why, because of because of being from Kazakhstan.
Speaker 5 (43:27):
To because of money, because because they couldn't, because they
couldn't generate enough gate money to convince the Demetrius Andreids.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Or the Charlos.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
At that time to take the fight against a guy
who was a killer, right, and and everybody would would say, well,
he wouldn't fight me.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
But we all know those you know what we know that?
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Yeah, that there is people having to make too much money.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's the thing that's the problem.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
When you're invested like that, you have to make a
big return, and so you're making decisions based on what's
my return gonna be instead of what's the fucking quality?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Does this?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Does this remind you of anything? Like half our society?
So much? Is right?
Speaker 6 (44:19):
The problem is Wall Street, bro. When you have a
regular company. Ray, it's the company. It's it's it's right,
it's it's too big, it's all too big, and it's
all focused too much on greed and whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Is that gonna freaking change rhetorical question? I don't I
don't think it.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
No, No, but that's but that's it. That's that's why
you asked me. This all started with do I think
Turkey alas Sheet changes in sporting?
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The answer is no, because he doesn't have the money
to do that.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Because there is always going to be greed. There is
always going to be the person who thinks they deserve.
We should have had a Deontay Weiler, Anthony Joshua fight,
He should have had all of these fights that never happened,
and there was way more money out there that was
(45:10):
able to make that these happen, and they don't happen, right,
And then then you start with the in fighting with
each other, and it happens at every level. It happens
at my level, where you know, promoters are dickish with
each other and don't want to you know, they sign
a guy and these guys are all average fighters, but
they sign them so they want to build him up
(45:31):
because they're gonna put him in a fight on the
top rink and make their money, so they're not gonna
put him at your guy who might be liverit better
and might not.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It all gets better when people.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Start supporting the right, Like I'm not gonna go to
your show if I'm watching your kid fight this shitty
guy who we know he's gonna knock out in two rounds. Right,
I'm not gonna watch Canelo mean er through in Kary Brilang.
Like I'm not going to see Dang Davis fight another
(46:07):
one hundred.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And twenty pound guy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (46:10):
Like, you know when the fights, like to the one
guy's credit and he's I think he's crazy and it's nuts.
But to the one guy's credit, the guy who probably
made the most money in the last couple of years,
Ryan Garcia, who laid it out and fought, He's like,
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Sure I'll fight Dang Davis. Sure I'll fight you know hany.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And is that but I don't know? And then is
that what it takes? Is that what it takes? And
they answered again a rhetorical question, yes that, I mean, it.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
Does, it does, and it takes, it takes the stars
to be like, no, no, I'm not going to do it,
and you know what.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
I mean, and and those and those were the two
of the biggest fights that we've had in the last
couple of years on in boxing Ryan.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
But you know what, yeah, both.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And both guys thought they had the Here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
Here's the crazy part about that is Ryan came in
on the b side in both.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Of those fans, right.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Yeah, right, yeah right, Ryan said I don't care, I'm
gonna pay. But both both other guys thought they had
they had the win over him.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
They thought they did.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
Obviously we saw tanks stop him h and Hani get
the shit kicked out of him, even though he's trying
to say he didn't.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
But yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's what it takes.
Speaker 5 (47:35):
That's what the fights were when we were kids, and
we watched Marvin Hagueler fight John the Beast Mugabi, and
you watched Joey Gamash.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Fight whoever they put in front of him. That's that's
what it.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
Was and it will never be again for a myriad
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
So if we you're of a gen X.
Speaker 6 (47:57):
Guy like me, right abas two all of us, it
ain't never coming back to where it was. We must
be if we want to continue to be fans et
cet or must be okay with how it will never
be that way again?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But can it be a better version then it has? Mike,
let me ask you. It's hard. So what is your kid,
let's say your three year plan?
Speaker 6 (48:21):
Mike, what do you do if you and you don't
want to be you don't want to be like, all right,
I got a guy, I want to build him to
twelve and oh I got Callum Waltz or whatever. But
part of you does want to do that, right, So
what do you fucking do? Uh?
Speaker 5 (48:37):
You suck it up and you put your kids out
there to fight and realize that you have no option
and they've got to do better. So if you've got
a kid who sells, and I'll be I'll tell you
right now, as a small time for my private kid
who sells two tickets, yeah, probably not going to throw
him out there like that. If you're selling out a third,
(48:57):
that's right, half of my crowd. But if I've got
kids who are selling five or six thousand of tickets
I launched and they and they can barely cover their fight,
well fuck yeah you're gonna fight, man, or you're not
gonna fight on my card.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Yeah. Now I'm gonna say this, Mike, And that's a
perfect segue speaking of Reyes and his card entertainment value
getting the grassroots shows. Going Down in Dirty twelve is
happening on October nineteenth at the Double Tree, Manchester, New Hampshire.
You've got one of the fights on there is Gabriel
(49:34):
Morales versus Blast Eski Le Cattle, which is a rematch.
Talk to us about that card and what to look
forward to on October nineteenth down in Dirty twelve.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
Yeah, so all my cards are a mixed I'm not
gonna sit here and perpetrate as though that. I don't
have guys who are gonna fight some other guys who
they expect to win, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
I have two fights on this card that I think
got be intriguing.
Speaker 5 (50:04):
In that last Carl Gabby fight, Gabby lost by stoppage
to Blast Carl and and he wants to shot back
and Blast Car is training hard and ready to go,
so you know, it's a great fight that is at
the main event for a reason.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I also have Joe James, a fight that I look
forward to seeing.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Joe James, who's nine and one, who's who can't it's
coming off a win. But his fight before that he
got stopped by who I pressed I consider an average fighter.
And he's fighting a kidnamed David Smith who's two and oh,
and Joe knows, like this is it, like you gotta.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
You gotta go out there and you gotta win. And
David Smith is no slouch and he's no, he's he's uh,
you know, he's quite possibly he has a hidden gym,
you know, and uh.
Speaker 5 (50:49):
And we get to see this fight and you know,
then there's some other guys on there who are gonna
fight nobody's and maybe it's because they need to to
get somewhere. But that's what a card should be, a
nice mix of a whole bunch of stuff for people
to get and then move on.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And and that's what my cards have been.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
If you look at that last card, you know, the
Down and Dirty eleven, we had some really great fights
go to the distance, some awesome fights that were close.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
You know, you weren't you weren't taking it and being like, oh, well,
this is it. They're only gonna win, you know. Then
we have some guys who went out there and knocked there,
pouring out in two seconds, because that's what the sport is,
you know.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
But it to Mike's point and to yours, is that
if the people dictate what they're gonna see, right, if
no one shows up to my shows, I don't make
any money, my fighters don't build up, then they've spoken
and that's okay. Right, then I know I didn't do
my job. But it's got to be done that way
at every level. Right, So stop watching the bullshit fights.
(51:54):
Stop watching that stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
We'll be fine as far as more local, grassroots places.
Speaker 6 (52:03):
If you're you got to give people reality and what
you described in the moralest situation, there's reason for that fight.
There's a history for that fight. When you when you
described it like I got little goosebumps, I'm like, I right.
And so if you're doing that, God bless you. Too
(52:27):
much of the time, that's just not happening. There's too
much paint by numbers. There's too much filling in the blanks.
And one of the problems is those big guys they
do that paint by numbers ship and then it trickles
down and and on you.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You're you're you're not doing that, but the so yo.
It just I feel like it comes down to the economy, man,
and where we are. Man. You have to have numbers.
Speaker 6 (52:52):
You have to have big numbers as as an influencer,
as or whatever to make anything tenable, right because of
the cost of fucking This ain't nineteen forty four.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
This ain't nineteen eighty seven. Even the costs of crazy,
The costs are mad. And how the costs of add
up to a promoter?
Speaker 6 (53:11):
Holy shit, Mike, can you give us an example, give
the people an example of something that they don't think of,
like nitty gritty, shitty fucking costs that fuck with you,
that are like lead your wife sometimes saying, Michael Ray is,
why are we fucking doing this? There are ten thousand
of them in every show, and for you to be
doing this tells.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Me that you absolutely love this. So God bless you.
I want you to succeed. But it's against all odds.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
It is against all odds. You know these people. I
gotta get out of the kids. But I'll tell you
guys something real quick. And this is the cause honest
truth I've heard.
Speaker 5 (53:45):
So I just had a conversation with with a manager
wanting me to sign his two fighters, two fighters with
decent fighters.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
They're good.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
But the kid's father goes, well, he's only paying us
fifteen hundred bucks for a six round fight. And the
guy goes, well, he's only gonna pay you that because
you're gonna fight guys that you should win, right, Yeah,
that you shouldn't be losing to. And the guy goes, well,
he's making the gate and he's making any pay per views,
(54:15):
he's making this. And so I had to help the
guy out and make him realize that, yeah, I might
be making all those if they show up.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yep, people come, if somebody buys a pay per view
or a stream, if you even show up for a fight.
Speaker 5 (54:32):
But you know what, you're gonna get paid automatically because
you're gonna step on that scale and step in the ring.
And it doesn't really matter what happens, because my responsibility
is to pay you regardless.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Right.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
So that's those are the three facts of it. Is
that at small club level, show cost forty to fifty
grand and these kids and these people couldn't even fathom
putting that money up because they can do any of it.
But that's what those guys do on a regular basis,
and then up to up to UH a top ranked card.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
You're looking at five hundred a million dollars easy.
Speaker 5 (55:06):
So if you don't have it, like, don't talk about it, right,
you can't be there, like, don't act like you're gonna
do it, and and then you just you spend your
money in what works for you. That's you know, there's
we got, we got opportunities. You have some great stuff
that that's coming in the sport. I you and I
(55:26):
on that one thing. You and I usually align on everything,
But I actually believe that I think our sport is
growing again. I don't think we're in the throws. I
think a few years ago we were getting killed by UFC.
Now I think people are watching it more in they're
interested more.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
But we still have a lot of work to do.
And it's not on the back of Turkey Ala Chic.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
It's on the back of the people showing up in
and being like, no, I want this, and no, I'm
not going to pay that much for this trash and.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
All the way up the line.
Speaker 6 (56:03):
My last question for me, last question for me, is
it because you you yourself are educating a lot of
these people on the fucking realities.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
I'm the problem.
Speaker 5 (56:19):
I mean, I I I've got a I've always prided
myself I'm being an open book. So at the end
of your show, I have a spreadsheet I show people
the numbers that were there.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
I'm like, here's the reality. So you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Do it?
Speaker 5 (56:31):
Like you want to talk about it, do it? But
you know you're not gonna because well you might be.
You know, well you want to tell me about your
putting your life on the line. You don't want to
put your money on you know what I mean. And
as somebody who has lost twenty or thirty thousand dollars
in a card, it's it's real, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (56:52):
My money's gone, Mike, Mike, I know you have to run.
So last shot, you know, give everybody the details why
they should go and purchase a ticket. Where can they
could purchase a ticket? They're locally where they can see
it down In thirty twelve October.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
We're almost sold out.
Speaker 5 (57:12):
You can go to the Armory man Chester, New y
I'm sure we only have about thirty tickets left.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Nice standing room only.
Speaker 5 (57:22):
From that point, we are launching Reyes Boxing TV office.
So people will be able to go right to their
own little space to see it. I'll give you guys
a lot more details over the next week, but yeah,
I know it's it's a great exciting process and I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
And now I'm in the kids, lining to get the kids,
so I don't want to swear anymore.
Speaker 4 (57:41):
So you on me, all right, all right, all right,
Mike listen. We appreciate you, man, but all right, it's
the box of uselves soon.
Worldwide, every weight class.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's low is he in?
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Uh huh, Whiskey fight uh huh. It's the Boxing Rush
Shower shown coasted by Abraham Gunzalet's know what you came forth? Yes,
indeed this way you come to get your info. Listen
out all the shows throwing it out. It's the Box
and Rush Showers Show. Let's go win the ring.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We throw hands hock, the gun held POWs and the little.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Critical comments every year necessary of every up opinions, we
heavy on to win it. This podcast is to break
down the paper dude for boxing Curvis, you'll let this
man through the drive rights a frist sight that the
prize right hands taped up and gloves todd sight they made.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
All right? Thank you for tuning into the Boxing Rush
Hour Show. I have some exciting news. I'm thrilled to
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for your next sports book through my sign up Expert link.
You can easily find it in the description below. All Right,
(01:35):
ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning into The Boxing
Rush Hour Show. My next guest. And before we even
get to my next guest, I just want to point
out that this is the one hundredth episode of The
Boxing Rush Hour Show, which started in January twenty twenty two.
And you know what better way to celebrate that one
hundredth episode by having a boxing promoter Marine Corps veteran
(02:02):
Michael Rayes. What's going on, Michael?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Love in life? I'm back here with you, my man.
So all is great. I don't know why I keep
jumping in on the screen back.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
All right, Hey, you're you're out there. You're an independent promoter,
you're cooking, you're doing shows. But for those that aren't
familiar with with what you've been doing in the in
the Boston, New Hampshire area, New England area, you've been
in the business. You know about five six years. Now,
(02:41):
how was how was your vision? How has your vision
changed from when you started two Now, Oh.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
That's a you know, that's a great question.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So when I started this whole rigor of my role,
let's see, I mean one didn't ever think I'd be
doing this. So that's the starters. I had purchased a
jim My grown up, as we talked about back in
the day I grew up in boxing.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Left it. I had purchased a gym.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I convinced myself, hey, look, let's train some fighters. There's
a way to help your gym get busier and in
pretty decent.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Let's call him a world class b side.
Speaker 5 (03:29):
The guy comes into my gym, tells me he wants
me to manage him.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
And I was like, no, no, I'll just train you.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
And he was like, no, no, If you trained me,
then my promoter can take me away from you, So
why don't you be my manager? Basically convinced me that
I needed to manage him. Worst thing I ever did
in my whole life ever, But that led me to
(03:57):
a whole series, a really great experience signing other guys.
Realizing that in this industry, you know, besides training, because
I do wear that hat for a fair amount of
international fighters. But besides training, that promoting is my is
my skill enjoying that process, and that's what brought.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Me to here.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Okay, but from this, from when you started promoting though
to now, like, how how has that vision you know evolved?
I would say, that's go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
That's that's amazing. That that is now.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I understand that you even wanted to go even deeper
more Granule. I mean, you know, my very first show,
I mean lucky.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You can call me. You can call me lucky. You
could call me an idiot, depends on what side you
stand on.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
My very first self promoted show all by myself, How
to be a UFC card, that I jumped on and
had the option to do up in Maine with the
guys from Murphy's Boxing, great venue, shitty fights. Excuse my language,
(05:19):
but they were right as my first cracket, you know,
being a true on my own person, and I saw
a whole host of problems. Attendance was horrible, overworked.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
And so that started off my vision.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
And I stayed lucky because not very many people have
the ability to have TV in their back pocket, and
I did right off the bat and it stuck with me.
I think that the learning experience has helped me really
craft what I want. As we've spoken in the past
about I have this vision for my series Down and Dirty,
(06:02):
which we're on Down and Dirty twelve coming up here
in three weeks, extremely excited about it. The vision has
just grown from venue size to venue size, to title
fights to just this amazing, amazing dream that I never
(06:24):
really thought of because you get down these lines and
you know, little boyish mentality, Oh, I want to be
the next Bob Aram. I want to be don King. No, no, man,
you don't have twenty million dollars to lose, right, you
don't have all of this stuff that it takes to
(06:48):
get there. And you're not playing with other people's money.
You're playing with your real money, your money.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So you know, for where I.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Started to where I am today, both the vision, it's
always stayed true. Put on great fights, give people entertaining opportunities,
give fighters the.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Chance to show their skill and builds. And yeah, I
mean that's and as we've been doing happened.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
All right, And so in hearing all that, would you
say that having realistic expectations has helped you get to
this point with the company.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I think that is a good way of
looking at it.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
I think that I set realistic expectations.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
I don't think I'm gonna make a ton of money.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
I don't believe that I'm gonna make, you know, thirty
grand on each card. And I don't go in. I
go in knowing that, hey, I'm gonna lose. Maybe I'm
gonna break even. But maybe my kids build.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Up a little and they.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Crowd enjoyed it just a little bit more this time,
you know. So yeah, I think I think you're right
on point the saying setting realistic expectations has allowed me
to be here on number twelve today.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
All right, and then what challenges did you come across
along the way that you might have not expected?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I mean, it's funny, you know. I think.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
Every card you come across challenges you don't expect. Yeah,
but you should, right. So, I don't know that anything
ever has caught me off hand.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
You know.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I've had fighters pull out on the scale or the
day of weigh ins. I've had people call me, my
own fighters call me and say they're not going to
make it. I've had police not show up for the
detail and I had to deal with that. I've had
ambulances not show up or show the wrong one. I've
always had something thrown at me. But all you can
(09:10):
do is take a deep breath and find a solution.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
YopE.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
And then.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
Now a couple weeks ago you had Down and Dirty eleven.
It was on September fourteenth. I believe it was like
a like a Puerto Rican parade weekend over there in
your area. You had looks like you had Carlos Gonzalez,
feather Away, Anthony Velaskiez junior middleweight that that scored victories there.
How was it putting on a show and you going
(09:40):
up against you know, the big win in Vegas, which
was Canelo versus Berlanga or did it really not have
an effect because of it being you know, a local
show that people wanted to support those fighters.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
I feel like I want to be like Oscar de
la Hoya right now. I'm like Canelo fuck you?
Speaker 3 (10:06):
You know? Uh, you know. The truth is.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
The Canelo is a force, right, I mean, it's just factual,
it is what it is. He affected the UFC, you know,
so if he's affecting a sport that doesn't technically have
anything to do with him. Yeah, I'm sure that. I'm
sure I felt the hurt of.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Of Canelo a little bit. You know. Was that one hundred.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
People who said they didn't want to show up to
my fight because they were going to stay home and
watch a Canlo fighter.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I don't know. It wasn't a direct.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
We still sold twenty two hundred tickets that night for
our venue, so, which is the most that that venue
has ever sold in the history and in literally the
history of the sport. And they've had all kinds of
people there from this area growing fights. I'm not gonna
(11:06):
drop names, but guys that people say are the big promoters,
and they couldn't put that many people in there. So
we did great. Could we have done better? Maybe what
we do better on December fourteenth?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (11:20):
Is it possible Canelo is gonna come out and say
he's gonna fight on December fourteen?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Possibly?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
It seems like every time I put a date out there,
I was like, who design he's fighting on it?
Speaker 3 (11:29):
So but yeah, I know, you know, he's he's the draw. Yeah,
it'd be like going up against Dang Davis. He's what
you do.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, And you know, and speaking of that type, of influence.
You know, Turkey isla chic he is, you know, he
is in boxing, you know, both feed in and he
is affecting a lot right now. Now there's some back
(12:00):
and there's some you know, people undecided on what to think.
The one thing is is that they are putting, you know,
top name fighters on their cards and keeping them busy,
but it doesn't leave too much room for guys that
are kind of in the middle. In the middle area. Now,
(12:21):
I've seen as of late that there are fighters that
are in that zone that are a name but maybe
not a big name, that are now kind of going
into these regions where they're they're doing small shows, they're
fighting on small shows. So I guess my question is
do you see do you see that from a local
(12:46):
promoters lens that there are fighters that maybe are on
a bigger promotion that are now being kind of farmed
out to smaller shows to be busy, to stay busy.
Uh And is that some and and is that something
that you would potentially entertain as a local promoter to
have somebody that has some sort of name that people
(13:06):
recognize be on one of your shows.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
So we'll break that down in a couple different ways. One,
let's Turkey Ala chic. Yeah, Saudi is definitely affecting the
way this sport is running right now, and it's amazing.
Jake Paul did the same thing, right, there's always a
new person who's gonna affect the way that this sport
(13:32):
is quote unquote Rand.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
PBC did the same thing. You know.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
De lo Air and Golden Boy did the same thing.
They all do the same thing. They come out, they're
gonna put more money in these fighters pockets.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
They're gonna put on the best shows. They're gonna do this,
they're gonna do that.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Okay, you're gonna do the best that you can do,
and that's just what you're gonna do.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
So Saudi has deep pockets. How long does it last?
Speaker 5 (13:59):
I don't know, as long as Showtime lasted, as long
as HBO lasted.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Because eventually somebody's gonna.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
Be like, no, no, we're not gonna just keep throwing
money away, right like because it doesn't make sense. Like it.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Still has to make sense. Businesses still have to make sense,
you know.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
So to answer that question, the top of the Top
is doing better than they ever have, right and and
that's great, and that is allowing for the mid level
guys that were being showed up by these larger promotions
to now come back down to probably where they would
(14:44):
have always have been anyways, a good club level fighter
who was ready to step up and be an opponent
or something like that. But you know it, we're we're
truly looking at it. There's still some TV that's out there.
There's the the Amazon Prime deal. They're doing their first
free fight through Amazon with Tim Zu and a bunch
(15:07):
of guys in that Orlando area that they're producing in
part with Amari and the Caribe.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And those guys. We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
You know, I've sat and watched these de zone shows
look like average, you know, or they present this four
and o versus this four and oh, but it's a
fake four and oh, so they're still killing the guy
and it's all fucking smoking mirrors. Meanwhile, on the club
level shows, we have guys who are four and sixteen,
(15:41):
but the fights are going four rounds and the guys
only winning by a split decision, and they're exciting, and
you know what I mean. So I think that we'll
see some guys come back to the club level circuit
and move around depending on where they're at, how big.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Their name really is. You know, the problem is that
guys like me abe, we need to put.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
Asses in seats, and the idea of those guys don't don't.
No one gives a No one gave a fuck when
they were on showtime, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Like they were they were opening up when there was
nobody in the crowd, so no one gives a fuck.
Speaker 4 (16:21):
Yeah, No, that's that's that's an interesting take. Yeah, because
I mean I've seen him. I've seen Uh, who was
it that I saw? I saw this this one guy
that was PBC guy Wing on Fox Sports won a
bunch of times. He was doing a club show in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And then.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Uh, this guy from a former world champion from Jersey,
I can't remember. He runs a chicken place, he's fighting
on pro Box. So like I've seen, I'm seeing more
of that because it doesn't look like there are enough
shows for those level guys. And like what you said,
you know, they may or may not have a name,
and you know, you're not in the business of taking
(17:04):
that risk. You rather, you know, provide entertainment value because
there's nothing like home cooking, right everybody loves some home cooking.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
That's it, man, you know, like I'm you know, the
guys that are jumping on those names, the Gary jonas Is,
the Aris, the you know, the Tablas, the you know,
like great for you, great for you, that you're gonna
jump on that name. But those people aren't packing in.
(17:34):
What they're really hoping is that that guy's gonna get
the chance to fight on the Saudi card. And because
they put them on the car, they signed them some contracts,
and now they're hoping they're gonna get two hundred three hundred,
four hundred five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Yeah, yep, are they I don't know who knows?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Who knows? They might, they might not.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
You know, they're taking the risk of spending thirty or
forty grand up front to do that, you know.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Because it might happen, it might not.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
And in my experience right now, the money isn't what
everyone thinks it is. And it doesn't matter. I don't
care who's the one signing the check behind that. I
don't care if it's Saudi, I don't care if it's
any hearn, I don't care if it's Odell Hoya. They
call the same way the rest of us do. What's
(18:20):
the cheapest I can get a fight for, because in the.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
End of the day, everyone's money's made the same way.
Speaker 5 (18:26):
How much sponsorship did you get, what hotel, what casino
gave you a you know X amount of dollars? How
much did you sell at the fighting gate? And how
much did you spend? And did you make any money?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yep, only one person doesn't look at those numbers that way.
Everybody else does.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
And listen before I go to my next question, I
got a surprise guest joining us, somebody that you know
very well. Let's see where he is. He is coming
on shortly. You gotta turn on your camera though.
Speaker 5 (19:04):
Oh jesus, Oh Mike, motherfucking what.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Can you see me?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
No? You got but I can know you, Jesus.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
It sounds like does he sound like?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Okay, No, I'm not done speaking. Oh God, it's gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Yeah. And we were getting we were just about to
get into the the nice uh down in dirty twelve
parts too. So you came just in time, dare Mike.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Yeah, wait, I wish you would have been here a
few minutes ago. We conna, we gotta trash talked about
thirty five promoters.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well we can still do that. Hold on, what's my settings? Hey?
Why am I not stupid.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
On the bottom?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
No? No, no, I got it.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Hey, you guys, You guys would think they just invented
the zoom like yesterday. Right there you go. I'm going
to give myself some light from the refrigerator.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh nice, Look at him, he's.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Adding, guys, I'm sorry, I'm late. I was walking the dog.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Is that what we call it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Whatever it was, that's what we call it. Now, I
apologize for being late.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Party, as they say in your neck of the woods,
rays Catty Caddy.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
He says that he's not a Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (20:45):
But well, I know, well, I guess I am half
and half or three quarters or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
But wait, what did I miss? Who do we trash? So?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
So we were so we were talking about whether Mike
was gonna be holding Turkey's hand or not the next
time he sees him.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Now, no truth, that's exactly what he was saying.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
He was like, do you want to be the next
guy who throws himself at Turkey?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Ala sheek?
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Like the guys throw theirself at p Diddy and uh,
And I said no, I can give two ships, okay,
because my my my break.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
And in the end of the day, Mike.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
For me, it's how many see how many people do
I put in my shows.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Here on on my level?
Speaker 5 (21:34):
How many sponsors do I find care about my stuff?
And all they're gonna care about is how many eyes
are watching my fights and some mid level guy you know, uh,
Jesse Hard or any of those guys that are putt.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
So No, and so for the answer is I'm not
going to that Diddy party right now.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, I'm good. I'm I don't want to wake up.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
In ten years and be like, oh Tregiellis she got
you too.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Eh.
Speaker 6 (22:07):
The thing is this, if they contacted me right now,
if they contacted you right now and said, hey, we
got a little you know something and we see you
working in it, would we work with Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
We would, right.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
I don't have any problems working against uh, you know,
because of ideology or any of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It ain't it.
Speaker 6 (22:32):
I will say this if you had asked me that
five years ago, six years ago or whatever. The world
has changed a lot since since then. And what I'm
referring to is Saudi Arabia and America and how we
get along and how we don't. And you remember the
(22:54):
journalist that was killed whatever twenty eighteen or something twenty
seventeen was, I think it was, and that was a
big hubbub. But how much the world has changed since then,
and how I see the world is is a lot
different now. I don't think that there's let's put it
(23:16):
this way, boxing is not populated by angels ninety nine
percent of the.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Lot, right, that's just like the world.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
I don't see angels anywhere, you know, I don't see
angels in our government, in their government, in any government
right now. So me in twenty eighteen versus me, now,
that wouldn't be so much. Am I bullshitting myself and
being like, no, well, it's take the bag. I seriously
don't think I am. We could get you all could get,
(23:49):
and we could get and you guys could get much
deeper than me because of your backgrounds, what you know
and military and all that. So I know we took
it into a slightly different direction there, but I wouldn't
have any problems about I don't think taking a bag.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
But okay, here, I'll say this, and how do I
say this without well, can I say this.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
If those folks had wanted any help in terms of
like journalism and all that stuff, if they were reaching
had been reaching out to people.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
They I'll say it this way, they kind of.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
People that are very quiet and stealthy about what they're
doing and who they're hiring and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So let's just say.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
I have considered it, and I didn't say no to it.
It did strike me though, when they were starting out
just last year, and I haven't seen the infrastructure being
built outside of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
They're doing the.
Speaker 6 (25:09):
Business in America now and right they did the show
in in Cali and.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Wembley. Hello, Hello, Hello. But they're also very insular too,
So in other words.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
It's it's it's boxing, it's uh, we are in flux again.
I can only imagine you, Mike, as far as being
a promoter and seeing this happen and and being like,
oh shit, are they gonna swallow up like everything? And
do I have a freaking place? And so I guess
(25:45):
that's my point here, coming to on on this sort
of turf, like what's all our place in this? If
they get so big that they almost take over all
that almost take over everything.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And the thing is the truth is is that I mean,
I know where you're going, this's Mike, and I don't.
I don't know that you're wrong, except that I don't.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I don't think that any one entity can do what
they think they can do it. I've suddenly watched and
Dana White can put out whatever bullshit ask numbers he
wants to put out.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Because the truth is, the shows of Scott.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
Shitty over the years, right, the U have the fights
of today are not the cards that we watched with
Chuck Lydell and Randy Horror and each fight had this like.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Exciting era of like, oh my god, right like and
so now you watch these fights, the first four of them,
multiple hundred, but that's multiple different entities who've done that.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They've broken it up.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
One person can't pull it all together because you know what,
at the end of the day, you still have greed,
and you still have corruption, and you still have and
and I don't give a fuck. The Saudis don't have
They have deep pockets, sure, but.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
This is not an unlimited amount of money.
Speaker 5 (27:23):
And just like they found just like everyone has found
a way to fuck up the HBO contract and to
fuck up the Showtime contract and to fuck up the
Fox contract and soon to fuck up the dis Own contracts.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
They'll fuck up the Saudi contract because they're gonna be
so fucking.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
Disgusting and takes so much, you know that, Like, we
don't want to do this.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
This reminds me of a day in a White riff
that dropped probably just yesterday, right, Abe, Why Abe and
I have talked about this. We white been saying for
how long that he was gonna maybe get into boxing,
for years and years and years, and finally it became
(28:13):
a joke. Abe messaged me the other day with analol like, oh,
you know, come on, you know, let's grain the salt. Basically,
we'll see if it happens and to see, like like,
I don't know if he's gonna do it either, really
because he's like so approaching and then avoiding.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Henna he's gonna do it, I mean, been hold.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
On, hold on yet, I don't know what I know.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
I think I think this was his chat with Iola
that dropped yesterday. He is really I feel like he
does not exactly know how he's gonna do it at
the level he thinks he wants to do it because
he does not want to pay at the same rates
(29:02):
or even approaching anywhere the same rates. So he's basically,
uh put himself into a corner. At the levels of
fights and fighters that he can have, he can simply
not pay. The beef was Naganu. He was talking about
Naganu and it was this was maybe a question after
one of the pressers or what. But someone is like, yo,
(29:24):
the money that guys can get, you know, made that
big money against AJ and White.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Is just like, that's not true.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
You know, if you guys really know people throw around
bullshit numbers and then he proceeds to not inform us,
not tell us you guys we do well, then fucking
tell us.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I mean, you know, let's get that's hard. That's hard
bull Let's look at his actual thing. Let's look at
the way this. We all know that there's an issue.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
The contract ends with ESPN and top rank in twenty
twenty five. That's that's public knowledge. Yeah, I'm not saying
anything that doesn't doesn't exist. Right, So we all know that,
we all know that the UFC is dominated ESPN as
of late. Right, their shows take their shows take precedence.
(30:23):
If they have a show that's on, you know, and
there's a top rank card on top rank weights for
ESPN UFC to finish, right, yep, So we all know that,
so you know by that standard, I would think the
the argument is is that UFC is gonna get ESPN.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, you don't think there's room enough for two two
of those? You don't.
Speaker 6 (30:50):
It's the Titanic and right we are we are in
the boxing is in the lower berth and fuck it,
we're dead. Yeah, well, I think I don't know about that.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
I just I think that Dana White's gonna do exactly
what you just said.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
He's gonna go in and he's gonna do the fight.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
The fight's cheaper because he's been doing it with Tom
Loffler on UFC formats. Solfler's fights will come in and
he'll do And let's talk about the Boston show.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
He did.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
Average show, but he did it inside of the BU Stadium,
so smaller, not as large as you know, a top
rank would do their right, So so he does it.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
In that type of setting. It's it's an average show.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
They highlight one or two guys and then everything else
is just very similar to an MVP card, right, Oh,
I have this four and o versus this three and one,
and you're like, yeah, but the three and one is
from fucking Oklahoma City and he has never fought a
fucking soul and the four and ohs five time national champion.
You're not doing anything special, You fake you want to
(32:02):
fake out people?
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Sure, right?
Speaker 5 (32:05):
And so Loffler's done a decent job of putting on
a card for sixty to seventy thousand dollars where top
rank cards cost three hundred to four hundred thousand dollars
on a cheap right, So yeah, sure, ESPN probably looks
at it and says, hey, we don't need, right, but
(32:26):
they need the Ta Femal Lopez.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Sure they need you know, Uh, I don't know, they don't.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Any you could say, or I mean selling those things,
but they don't care about the Johnny Bucks, right, They
certainly don't care about you know, uh Francis enough you
faa jack ba right, Like, Like, those aren't the shows
that are that are making ESPN money. So could that
(33:01):
show be traded out for a Tom Loffler Escu event
and still make the same amount of money?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
You know what I mean? You know on the big.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
ESPN also is Joe on ESPN.
Speaker 6 (33:17):
Can can it make ship into something palatable?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
More? So?
Speaker 6 (33:22):
We sang, huh, yeah, can can we divert a little bit?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Let's we're trying to talk some real talk here.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
We got a Massachusetts guy, I got a half of
Massachusetts guy.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
We got a Bronx guy here. I am not always enthralled.
Speaker 6 (33:42):
I'm gonna say I'm usually not enthralled with the top
rank shows too.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And here's why.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I mean the other the other.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Snoother formulaic is the term, and it's kind of paint
by numbers, and I'm not shitting on it. I understand
why they do it. They're building up the next crop
of people. But the shows of the past couple of
years have been very much you know what you're getting,
You're getting your your you started out your four to
zero guys, and now they're nine and oh and now
(34:15):
they're eleven and it's the Jahi's and it's the uh,
you know, the whole crew from the whole crew from
two years ago, a few of which are are standing
up and showing themselves to be and they want to
do better, they want to be better. But I don't know, man,
how much is it resonating how much is it hitting?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Mike. I think it comes down to what you referenced about. Man.
Speaker 6 (34:39):
You you want even matches. You just want even matches,
and when they're not, it fucking suffers. And over the
past couple of years, that formula a little, a little tired,
a little stale. Abe, God, bless abe. Man, he's just
laying out and he's just letting these these numskulls.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, bless you. He didn't. I didn't. I say to you,
what was it there? The last one?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Like?
Speaker 6 (35:07):
What would stop top rank from doing? How about this one?
They're big year end show, big fucking blowout show. We're
not having the same format, right. You know, a couple
of guys are going to fight each other, et cetera,
et cetera, and Stack get motherfuckers stop stop everyone, everyone
stops saying that, stop it.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
And you know that it's not ever Stack.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
You know you're sacked, but everyone else not Stack.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
You know, you know what stops that, What stops that
is a whole series of.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Managers and and promoters who have stakes in these games
and kids who have You're you're talking.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Look, let's look at.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
A shoeshoe Carrington A talented fighter for sure, and who
did get clipped the other day and pulled it back together.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
But how much money is tied into shoeshoe right now?
Speaker 5 (36:00):
For them to throw that away against against against you
throw them in against you know, at this point right now,
you throw shoeshoe in against you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Like you lost, they lost that fight.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
The fight would have been, uh, you know versus the
little killer who.
Speaker 4 (36:20):
Got knocked anyway.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
No, no, not.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Anyway, that's it, not not yet anyways anyways, a beast
in his own right right like, that's there's not much
to argue about that.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
But the kid who.
Speaker 5 (36:33):
Rob could be a good one now, but he he's
just pulling it back together after his loss.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Uh, looked out by the probox kid there.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Oh you're talking about Angelo Leo.
Speaker 5 (36:46):
Angel Leo's fight, right, No one cares now, nobody cares
to see Angelo Leo fight, right Like, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
But I need.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I need BBC a little bit more than.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
He did a good job. They threw me. Yeah, you
got you got the fights.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
They put guys against each other, but they went out
of business doing.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
It, they did, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (37:11):
Like because the money people's you know, what if people
want good fights? If people want if the people want boxing,
then it's gonna take them to speak up, because it's
saying I want good fights and then paying for Berlanga.
And Canelo doesn't say I want good fights. It says
(37:34):
I'm gonna do whatever the fuck you tell me to do,
because I'm sheep.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
You're You're exactly right, And Aaron are gonna come back
to the og with his wisdom. Aaron always said he
will say this periodically when people, when media is saying,
and well, what about this? Why aren't we getting this?
Why aren't we getting that? And Bab will get like
a little exasperated and be like the people, I'm not
gonna do the Aaron boys.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
The people got to ask for it. The customers have
to ask for it. Going back to Abe and and
me again, you know, we chat and we talk.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
We get on the same wave blank because that's my guy,
and and he loves me and I love him like
you rays, you know, but know Nabe a little longer.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Right, okay, And.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
I think that I'm gonna say I think that was
kind of part of our point. We kind of ganged
up a little bit, and on social we've been making
a point to speak up for the customers, speak up
for I'm going to say, speak up for myself, speak
up for ourselves about the pay per view model. Right,
and just how Hello, I'm doing a call. What are
(38:46):
you doing?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I love you. I'll see you later. Actually doing a call.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
She probably thinks, I'm like whatever, that's my daughter seventeen
and she's outside, and I'm in an apartment building and
it's the first floor, and that's some I gotta got
a studio. So as I as I was saying, what
was I saying?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Paper?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, And and we were hammering it a little bit.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
I've been hammering it for a fucking long time.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Now.
Speaker 6 (39:23):
Hello, yo, Read the room, guys, and what's the room.
The room is people's levels of discretionary income. In the
past couple of years with inflation has been fucking shitty,
and you are in this time, you guys are popping
up your now average average pay per view prices to
(39:44):
ninety eight pop.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Read the fucking room. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
The problem is is that the room still fucking pays
it like everything.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Else you are, you are, here's here's your food for thought.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah, baby, if you if you wanted the truth, those
motherfuckers could go out and support small shows them get.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
More people, There is more power.
Speaker 5 (40:05):
There are more fights on a regular basis in people's
hometowns than there are.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
On that large level.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
Yeah, it's straight and other time we just gotting a
bit of kids inside on the table.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It just if they just support these these kids when.
Speaker 5 (40:28):
They're starting out and and see it at that level,
then yeah, you'll get those fights because.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
You forced that.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Mikey.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
What let's break it down. What you're talking about is
you you brought it up before a.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Couple of minutes ago. Investments.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
They see when you see it as investments that fuck
that fucked with you, and top rank will say this
more than anyone else, right, they're like.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
No, what do you want us to do?
Speaker 6 (40:54):
We've invested you know, they're not going to tell you
the number, but it's hundreds of thousands of dollars in people.
So that makes it fucking hard. That makes it hard.
I don't know how to make it better, but I
don't know. Bottom line, we I think are gonna see
now a true test if Turkey Alo Chic sticks with it,
(41:18):
keeps booking fights to people want to see, and keeps
making it more not more more accessible, lower price pointing.
Then we're actually gonna see do we fucking grow eyeballs
or are we sort of stagnant?
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Are we at a ceiling? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (41:39):
We might be at a ceiling. This might be sort
of the amount of people that are gonna be.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Following our sport or not. I am not. I don't
I'm not that optimistic.
Speaker 6 (41:53):
Here's one reason why you need.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
An You need a American star.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
I don't want to say you need a white star,
but that helps a lot with marketing.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
You know what kind of guy you need. You need
an ass kicker. So once again it comes down to talent.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
And now my guy a bless him and you too,
And you guys are both international. Abe over the past
several years has latched onto the Japanese more. That's filling
a niche for him. That doesn't fill a niche for
the people in America. So much Abe is hardcore? How
many other people are doing that? And then what do
(42:36):
I have in common within a way? Yeah, I love
to watch his fight and stuff, but you need that
identification and that's why boxing also has that ceiling. Oh
or an international sport dude for some reason. Sorry not sorry,
but I just don't have too much of an interest
in Janabac or.
Speaker 8 (42:59):
Fin CON's why quite possibly one of the best, Well
that's that's why, quite possibly one of the best middleweights
in history will go.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Down as a board as a snooze.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
Right, A triple G had great skills, he was a
great fighter, and he never got the fights that defined
his true ability, you.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
Know, because of why, because of because of being from Kazakhstan.
Speaker 5 (43:27):
To because of money, because because they couldn't, because they
couldn't generate enough gate money to convince the Demetrius Andreids.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Or the Charlos.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
At that time to take the fight against a guy
who was a killer, right, and and everybody would would say, well,
he wouldn't fight me.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
But we all know those you know what we know that?
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Yeah, that there is people having to make too much money.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
That's the thing that's the problem.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
When you're invested like that, you have to make a
big return, and so you're making decisions based on what's
my return gonna be instead of what's the fucking quality?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Does this?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Does this remind you of anything? Like half our society?
So much? Is right?
Speaker 6 (44:19):
The problem is Wall Street, bro. When you have a
regular company. Ray, it's the company. It's it's it's right,
it's it's too big, it's all too big, and it's
all focused too much on greed and whatever.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Is that gonna freaking change rhetorical question? I don't I
don't think it.
Speaker 5 (44:35):
No, No, but that's but that's it. That's that's why
you asked me. This all started with do I think
Turkey alas Sheet changes in sporting?
Speaker 3 (44:43):
The answer is no, because he doesn't have the money
to do that.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Because there is always going to be greed. There is
always going to be the person who thinks they deserve.
We should have had a Deontay Weiler, Anthony Joshua fight,
He should have had all of these fights that never happened,
and there was way more money out there that was
(45:10):
able to make that these happen, and they don't happen, right,
And then then you start with the in fighting with
each other, and it happens at every level. It happens
at my level, where you know, promoters are dickish with
each other and don't want to you know, they sign
a guy and these guys are all average fighters, but
they sign them so they want to build him up
(45:31):
because they're gonna put him in a fight on the
top rink and make their money, so they're not gonna
put him at your guy who might be liverit better
and might not.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It all gets better when people.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Start supporting the right, Like I'm not gonna go to
your show if I'm watching your kid fight this shitty
guy who we know he's gonna knock out in two rounds. Right,
I'm not gonna watch Canelo mean er through in Kary Brilang.
Like I'm not going to see Dang Davis fight another
(46:07):
one hundred.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
And twenty pound guy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (46:10):
Like, you know when the fights, like to the one
guy's credit and he's I think he's crazy and it's nuts.
But to the one guy's credit, the guy who probably
made the most money in the last couple of years,
Ryan Garcia, who laid it out and fought, He's like,
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Sure I'll fight Dang Davis. Sure I'll fight you know hany.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And is that but I don't know? And then is
that what it takes? Is that what it takes? And
they answered again a rhetorical question, yes that, I mean, it.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
Does, it does, and it takes, it takes the stars
to be like, no, no, I'm not going to do it,
and you know what.
Speaker 4 (46:51):
I mean, and and those and those were the two
of the biggest fights that we've had in the last
couple of years on in boxing Ryan.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
But you know what, yeah, both.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And both guys thought they had the Here's the thing.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
Here's the crazy part about that is Ryan came in
on the b side in both.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Of those fans, right.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Yeah, right, yeah right, Ryan said I don't care, I'm
gonna pay. But both both other guys thought they had
they had the win over him.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
They thought they did.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
Obviously we saw tanks stop him h and Hani get
the shit kicked out of him, even though he's trying
to say he didn't.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
But yeah, yeah, I mean, that's that's what it takes.
Speaker 5 (47:35):
That's what the fights were when we were kids, and
we watched Marvin Hagueler fight John the Beast Mugabi, and
you watched Joey Gamash.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Fight whoever they put in front of him. That's that's
what it.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
Was and it will never be again for a myriad
different reasons.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
So if we you're of a gen X.
Speaker 6 (47:57):
Guy like me, right abas two all of us, it
ain't never coming back to where it was. We must
be if we want to continue to be fans et
cet or must be okay with how it will never
be that way again?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But can it be a better version then it has? Mike,
let me ask you. It's hard. So what is your kid,
let's say your three year plan?
Speaker 6 (48:21):
Mike, what do you do if you and you don't
want to be you don't want to be like, all right,
I got a guy, I want to build him to
twelve and oh I got Callum Waltz or whatever. But
part of you does want to do that, right, So
what do you fucking do? Uh?
Speaker 5 (48:37):
You suck it up and you put your kids out
there to fight and realize that you have no option
and they've got to do better. So if you've got
a kid who sells, and I'll be I'll tell you
right now, as a small time for my private kid
who sells two tickets, yeah, probably not going to throw
him out there like that. If you're selling out a third,
(48:57):
that's right, half of my crowd. But if I've got
kids who are selling five or six thousand of tickets
I launched and they and they can barely cover their fight,
well fuck yeah you're gonna fight, man, or you're not
gonna fight on my card.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
Yeah. Now I'm gonna say this, Mike, And that's a
perfect segue speaking of Reyes and his card entertainment value
getting the grassroots shows. Going Down in Dirty twelve is
happening on October nineteenth at the Double Tree, Manchester, New Hampshire.
You've got one of the fights on there is Gabriel
(49:34):
Morales versus Blast Eski Le Cattle, which is a rematch.
Talk to us about that card and what to look
forward to on October nineteenth down in Dirty twelve.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
Yeah, so all my cards are a mixed I'm not
gonna sit here and perpetrate as though that. I don't
have guys who are gonna fight some other guys who
they expect to win, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
I have two fights on this card that I think
got be intriguing.
Speaker 5 (50:04):
In that last Carl Gabby fight, Gabby lost by stoppage
to Blast Carl and and he wants to shot back
and Blast Car is training hard and ready to go,
so you know, it's a great fight that is at
the main event for a reason.
Speaker 3 (50:21):
I also have Joe James, a fight that I look
forward to seeing.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
Joe James, who's nine and one, who's who can't it's
coming off a win. But his fight before that he
got stopped by who I pressed I consider an average fighter.
And he's fighting a kidnamed David Smith who's two and oh,
and Joe knows, like this is it, like you gotta.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
You gotta go out there and you gotta win. And
David Smith is no slouch and he's no, he's he's uh,
you know, he's quite possibly he has a hidden gym,
you know, and uh.
Speaker 5 (50:49):
And we get to see this fight and you know,
then there's some other guys on there who are gonna
fight nobody's and maybe it's because they need to to
get somewhere. But that's what a card should be, a
nice mix of a whole bunch of stuff for people
to get and then move on.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
And and that's what my cards have been.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
If you look at that last card, you know, the
Down and Dirty eleven, we had some really great fights
go to the distance, some awesome fights that were close.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
You know, you weren't you weren't taking it and being like, oh, well,
this is it. They're only gonna win, you know. Then
we have some guys who went out there and knocked there,
pouring out in two seconds, because that's what the sport is,
you know.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
But it to Mike's point and to yours, is that
if the people dictate what they're gonna see, right, if
no one shows up to my shows, I don't make
any money, my fighters don't build up, then they've spoken
and that's okay. Right, then I know I didn't do
my job. But it's got to be done that way
at every level. Right, So stop watching the bullshit fights.
(51:54):
Stop watching that stuff.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
We'll be fine as far as more local, grassroots places.
Speaker 6 (52:03):
If you're you got to give people reality and what
you described in the moralest situation, there's reason for that fight.
There's a history for that fight. When you when you
described it like I got little goosebumps, I'm like, I right.
And so if you're doing that, God bless you. Too
(52:27):
much of the time, that's just not happening. There's too
much paint by numbers. There's too much filling in the blanks.
And one of the problems is those big guys they
do that paint by numbers ship and then it trickles
down and and on you.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You're you're you're not doing that, but the so yo.
It just I feel like it comes down to the economy, man,
and where we are. Man. You have to have numbers.
Speaker 6 (52:52):
You have to have big numbers as as an influencer,
as or whatever to make anything tenable, right because of
the cost of fucking This ain't nineteen forty four.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
This ain't nineteen eighty seven. Even the costs of crazy,
The costs are mad. And how the costs of add
up to a promoter?
Speaker 6 (53:11):
Holy shit, Mike, can you give us an example, give
the people an example of something that they don't think of,
like nitty gritty, shitty fucking costs that fuck with you,
that are like lead your wife sometimes saying, Michael Ray is,
why are we fucking doing this? There are ten thousand
of them in every show, and for you to be
doing this tells.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Me that you absolutely love this. So God bless you.
I want you to succeed. But it's against all odds.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
It is against all odds. You know these people. I
gotta get out of the kids. But I'll tell you
guys something real quick. And this is the cause honest
truth I've heard.
Speaker 5 (53:45):
So I just had a conversation with with a manager
wanting me to sign his two fighters, two fighters with
decent fighters.
Speaker 3 (53:53):
They're good.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
But the kid's father goes, well, he's only paying us
fifteen hundred bucks for a six round fight. And the
guy goes, well, he's only gonna pay you that because
you're gonna fight guys that you should win, right, Yeah,
that you shouldn't be losing to. And the guy goes, well,
he's making the gate and he's making any pay per views,
(54:15):
he's making this. And so I had to help the
guy out and make him realize that, yeah, I might
be making all those if they show up.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yep, people come, if somebody buys a pay per view
or a stream, if you even show up for a fight.
Speaker 5 (54:32):
But you know what, you're gonna get paid automatically because
you're gonna step on that scale and step in the ring.
And it doesn't really matter what happens, because my responsibility
is to pay you regardless.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Right.
Speaker 5 (54:42):
So that's those are the three facts of it. Is
that at small club level, show cost forty to fifty
grand and these kids and these people couldn't even fathom
putting that money up because they can do any of it.
But that's what those guys do on a regular basis,
and then up to up to UH a top ranked card.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
You're looking at five hundred a million dollars easy.
Speaker 5 (55:06):
So if you don't have it, like, don't talk about it, right,
you can't be there, like, don't act like you're gonna
do it, and and then you just you spend your
money in what works for you. That's you know, there's
we got, we got opportunities. You have some great stuff
that that's coming in the sport. I you and I
(55:26):
on that one thing. You and I usually align on everything,
But I actually believe that I think our sport is
growing again. I don't think we're in the throws. I
think a few years ago we were getting killed by UFC.
Now I think people are watching it more in they're
interested more.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
But we still have a lot of work to do.
And it's not on the back of Turkey Ala Chic.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
It's on the back of the people showing up in
and being like, no, I want this, and no, I'm
not going to pay that much for this trash and.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
All the way up the line.
Speaker 6 (56:03):
My last question for me, last question for me, is
it because you you yourself are educating a lot of
these people on the fucking realities.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
I'm the problem.
Speaker 5 (56:19):
I mean, I I I've got a I've always prided
myself I'm being an open book. So at the end
of your show, I have a spreadsheet I show people
the numbers that were there.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
I'm like, here's the reality. So you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Do it?
Speaker 5 (56:31):
Like you want to talk about it, do it? But
you know you're not gonna because well you might be.
You know, well you want to tell me about your
putting your life on the line. You don't want to
put your money on you know what I mean. And
as somebody who has lost twenty or thirty thousand dollars
in a card, it's it's real, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (56:52):
My money's gone, Mike, Mike, I know you have to run.
So last shot, you know, give everybody the details why
they should go and purchase a ticket. Where can they
could purchase a ticket? They're locally where they can see
it down In thirty twelve October.
Speaker 3 (57:11):
We're almost sold out.
Speaker 5 (57:12):
You can go to the Armory man Chester, New y
I'm sure we only have about thirty tickets left.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
Nice standing room only.
Speaker 5 (57:22):
From that point, we are launching Reyes Boxing TV office.
So people will be able to go right to their
own little space to see it. I'll give you guys
a lot more details over the next week, but yeah,
I know it's it's a great exciting process and I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
And now I'm in the kids, lining to get the kids,
so I don't want to swear anymore.
Speaker 4 (57:41):
So you on me, all right, all right, all right,
Mike listen. We appreciate you, man, but all right, it's
the box of uselves soon.
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