Ep 107: WBO President Gustavo Olivieri, Esq.

This week's guest is WBO President Gustavo Olivieri, Esq. Topics we discuss:

-First 90 days as President
-Revamping the Annual WBO conference
-Update on Sam Goodman's mandatory position
-Judge evaluation with scoring and what it could mean for those bad scorecards
- Using the sanctioning fees to benefit the fighters paying
and so much more.

Don't forget to like, subscribe and comment on the YT page.

Looking to bet on the fights this upcoming weekend?Head over to my dedicated page at signupexpert.com/fightsATW to sign up to some of boxing’s best sportsbooks.




Looking to bet on boxing this upcoming weekend?Head over to my dedicated page at signupexpert.com/fightsATW to sign up to some of boxing’s best sportsbooks.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Worldwide, every weight class.

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It's low is he in?

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Uh huh, Whiskey fight uh huh. It's the Boxing Rush
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(00:29):
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heavy on to win it. This podcast is to break
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Speaker 4 (01:36):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning in
to the Boxing Rush Hour show Fights atw dot com.
I have a very special guest who made the time,
fresh off a flight to Columbia to come on here
to the show. I know he's tired, but he wanted
to fulfill what we had arranged before hand, and.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I appreciate him for this.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Newly seated a couple of months in WBO President Gustavo OLIVIERTI.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
How you doing, Gustavo?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
How are you, Abraham? It's a pleasure man, Thanks for
having me in. Remember if I give you my word,
I have to under my word. Okay, That's how we
That's how we were all over the WBO. Baby No,
I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
I appreciate that Gustavo has taken over for for Paco
Vod Cassell, who was with the WBO UH for thirty
years something almost yes, almost thirty years. You were his
right hand for about eight of them before taking over.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm not a mistaken correct Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
So, uh, Gustavo's been in the in the sanctioning body
business with the WO for a while.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Before we get into anything.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
I just want to know who is Gustavo and how
did you meet and fall in love with boxing?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Oh man, I was just uh working class kid man
from the southwest part of the island. My mother is
a registered nurse now retired. My dad is a business businessman.
I got two brothers. Loved basketball, I love music. I'm
a musician. I played percussion drums. I love salsa, but

(03:20):
all kinds of music as well. I've always liked sports.
I used to be a very good basketball player. I
played in little leagues with jj Barea or from the
same hometown. We were very close friends, and we played
for the Puerto Rican national team on in one In

(03:43):
one occasion, the first time I had any any contact
with boxing, I think I was like eleven or twelve
years of age, my dad got home with a sweatshirt
of a Dudac Leonard fight. He attended that fight and
he got that souvenir souvenir. And when he got home

(04:06):
with his bags, I saw the jacket, I mean the sweatshirt,
and it was just a white sweatshirt with with the
print of the fight poster. And thereafter my dad said, oh,
are you interested in the boxing and learning? He said yeah,
and then he said I'm gonna I'm gonna teach you
so you can learn how to defend yourself. And he

(04:27):
took me to a nearby basketball court and he bought
a pair of gloves with the helmet, and he just
he just asked some of the kids the basketball court, Hey,
who wants to put the gloves with my son? This
kid named Gabriel I still remember his name.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Man.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
He said, you know, I'll spar with the kid, and
he gave me an asshole and I was like, no, no,
just just say for me, Dad to say for me.
And I still remember the kid's name, and if I
see him today, I know who the kid is, because
you know, he had me real hard the nose. I
started leading a little bit, and thereafter it just progressed

(05:09):
as a normal fan in high school a little bit
more intense. Thereafter in college, I was a little bit
more into it. But I knew the general aspects of
boxing home you know, HBO, Showtime, Don King, Bob Aram,
Frank Warren, Trinidad de la Jolla, Pacial, Uh, those type

(05:31):
of general concepts, But I wasn't. I wasn't aware of
the sanctioning bodies, how they work for titles, what is mandatory,
what is a rating system? How do you score a fight,
how do you appoint the officials, the different regulatory aspects
of when you conduct the fight, and the Jewish US
jurisdiction in the UK, all those inner workings of the industry,

(05:56):
and and I got involved with in My first shot
with the BO was as an intern. I was doing
an internship for graduate studies at Georgetown University in d C.
And the BO gave me a chance. After I had
reached out to Golden Boy, nobody answered the phone or emails.

(06:19):
I reached out to top rank. A lady said, hey, kid,
there's no vacancies here, no internship. Don't call here anymore.
Bood I called, I think I called Tom Brown TGB.
Nobody answered, Uh, the Puerto Rican Boxing Commission, but it's
a government agency. You know how that works, bureaucracy, And yeah,

(06:39):
we'll let you know, send your CV, and the bo
I called because I had to do an internship related
with sports law. I'm a license attorney and my graduate
degree was related with sports law, entertainment books, and the
the internships that the school had, like like agreements with

(07:03):
sports entities or law firms, were related with Major League Baseball,
Major League Soccer, NFL, and there were no vacancies for
legal positions. You could you could have I could have
done an internship like in ticket sales, community outreach, working
with the Little League social media, but I said, I'm

(07:27):
a license attorney. I want to I want to have
some involvement in this area and also, you know, the
theoretical aspects of the program. With a little uh trial
experience that I had at the time, like two or
three years as a trial attorney, I wanted to put
that in, you know, an effect with the with the program.

(07:50):
And I remember I talked to my academic advisor and
I said, what about professional boxing And the guy was like, well,
we don't have no boxing here, but if you want
to prepare a proposal, you send to the proposal, we'll
check it out, we'll let you know. I I exactly
did that and after I you know, I pitched to

(08:10):
my to the advisor, this is a WBO, one of
the major sanctioning bodies from per Rica, from puer Rico.
I think it's a perfect fit. They're gonna give me
a chance. So yeah, after I was pushing for the
for like two or three months, calling an emailing, calling
an emailing because Paco was always traveling and man after after,

(08:35):
after a couple of of not a couple, I would say,
numerous times of efforts of trying to get a chance,
I gotta call, like on a Monday. I have my
beer like this, no soue, no tie. I was already
I had already set out an apartment back in DC
to return maybe because maybe you know, pursue were as

(09:00):
a prosecutor or an immigration law firm or who knows.
And I had a girlfriend at the time. We were
we're living together for almost ten years. And I got
a call like a Monday, Hey, Gustavo, this is the
w b O office. I'm the secretary of the president.
Are you available for an interview tomorrow? I say, yeah, absolutely,

(09:23):
So I had to call a friend of mine for
a haircut through my beer. The whole thing traveled UH
three three hours from my hometown to San Juan, which
is where the main office are at the capital, and
I got there early.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Poco got late to the the interview and I remember
he he got he got to the interview and he
put the feet like this, like this, like this, you.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Know, yeah, very very o G, very very very Puerto
rican O G.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
And he was and the faull ring from the office
and he was, hey, secretary, bring me this. I'm sorry
kid and his pue bringing a promoter. I was like,
what the hell is this? Yeah, madness, you know, and
then he was like, I have your CV. He didn't

(10:20):
ask me anything about boxing. He just asked if I
recall correctly. He asked me three questions. Number one he
asked me whether whether I had enemies and I was like,
not that I know of, you know if I He said,

(10:43):
do you do drugs? I said no? And are you married?
I said, I'm not married. I have a girlfriend. Okay, okay,
So these are under under under Puerto Rico employment law.
These are primitive questions and an interview, but you know,
that was that was his style. And he asked me

(11:06):
how much I have to pay you? I said, nothing,
because this is a school program. I'm prohibited. No, but
you're already an attorney. I said, no, no, no, no, no,
he's also an attorney, I said, attorney in Valcacl. I
just want a chance. I just want a chance. I
have to do this internship and I just want to learn,

(11:27):
and I just want a chance. He said, okay, So
I got a couple of things to consider. I'll let
you know. Excuse me. And after like two more months,
I kept pushing and calling the lady that that served
as theaison, and the lady just said, I don't know
what to tell you, kid, he's not here. Just call
him directly. She gave me his phone. I reached out.

(11:50):
He said, hey, what are you doing. I'm in a meeting.
Call me later. I call him later. I'm in a meeting.
I'll call you. And I said, man, he's not gonna call.
And he called back and he said, how much I
have to pay you? I said no, I can't accept anything. No, no, no,
And when can you start? Tomorrow? Come on Monday? And

(12:12):
I started. I had to fulfill eighty hours a month.
I triple the hours, so I travel from my hometown
for six months, almost three hours in the morning, three
hours in the afternoon, and I got to the office
at eight thirty nine ish until five pm to get

(12:34):
back to my hometown, to arrive at home, like at
eight thirty nine, take a shower, go to bed, do
that for Monday to Friday for like two months. First
then we had here. It came Maria who destroy the island.
No power power can shut out, And I said, well,

(12:59):
the internship is over. Everyone's got a you know, seek
help for their respective families and loved ones. I returned
back to my hometown and my oldest brother told me, hey,
we got to go to the My oldest brother is
also an attorney. He has a lot for help me out.
Let's pull out the water. It was all flooded and

(13:20):
working there with a with a shovel and the bucket
and old dirty and at the time he got his
power back because his office is located nearby a hospital,
so they gave priority. Right yep, And I immediately went

(13:42):
on I got WiFi. Surprisingly, I connected on my phone
and I went to Twitter. There was a tweet from
Paco saying attorney only cold this number. So I went
I went back home. There was there you could you
could you could connect to the internet WiFi, but you
couldn't make calls because the networks, most of them were

(14:08):
destroyed because the here Kim Maria, I don't even I
don't even know how I got uh wi fi at
the time. Maybe there was a nearby WiFi. But I
went home and I called from a landline. Mm hmm, Hey, Huta,
how are you Your family's okay? Yeah? Do you got
a passport? Yes? I have. Okay, We're gonna keep running

(14:31):
operations in Florida. My office, Well, my assistant is gonna
call you for your password. We're gonna we're gonna buy
you a ticket and bring you out from Puerto Rico
to Florida. And I said, okay, done. So I didn't

(14:52):
consult with anybody. I was living with my girlfriend at
the time. Then I got home, Hey, maybe I gotta
go for at least four more months? What the hell?
See h and I took the chance, man, and I
did everything you can imagine from archives, answering the phone emails,

(15:16):
picking people to the airport, show affeur, putting up banners, posters,
getting coffee, the most insignificant things you can imagine. Working
with merchandising magazines, goodie bags for the for the conventions,

(15:38):
setting up conventions, picking up promoters at airports, fighters, driver
for a bus. And I was I think Pac will
tested me. You know. He was like, let's see how
much this kid can handle. And I said, I'm just
like a I'm a guy from you know, working class family.

(15:59):
Everything is or not given, you know, everything is hard work, dedication.
I wasn't ashamed of doing the work. I just my
view was every every task, if I can learn a
little bit about it and maybe connect with somebody and

(16:21):
ask a question or hey, how do you do that?
What's the purpose of doing that? Or hate? And I
think I think that was a plus. And and he
saw in me this kid, you know, got the commitment,
the dedication, willingness to learn. If I don't know, I asked,
I still do so today I talk to him every

(16:41):
day on the phone. Hey, Pap, we'll have this situation.
How should I deal with it? And he sheds some light.
You know, he's like this batter. I always said, this
analogy that knows because of experience, what type of pitch
is coming, fastball, slider, changeable, And he if I can
it's if I can avoid taking dangerous path through Paco's experiences.

(17:09):
So it's a blessing. And that progress and the responsibilities
and obligations were in crescendo conferred to me to the
point that I was then appointed as in house counsel
for the BL And then I was working the legal
thing resolutions, conditions for the sanction letters, making contact with

(17:33):
the promoters with the contracts to calculate the person and
read the provisions compliance. All that stuff. I did some
also other works, other tasks like the previously mentioned but
to sorry excuse me to a lower extent, right, but

(17:59):
and that win snowballing mhm. Until maybe the last year
or so that I was running the day to day
operation at the w BO from the main office, obviously
in consultation with Poker, and he would he would speak
obviously directly to Bob to Bob, for example, because of

(18:22):
their long standing relationship, you know, the standing that you know.
And with Frank Warren, I would speak with Moretti, I
would speak with Georgie Warren, Francis Warren, I would speak with.
I would speak with Tom Brown or Phil Wise's attorney,
with or with Sean Gibbons as a liason with Haymon

(18:44):
on that time, we'll speak with Parker. I was I
would speak with and that I would speak with Eddie
and Frank Smith, Sean Palmer because we're we're contemporaries obviously,
and but that, you know, and this like the last year,
like five or six months before the convention, It's like
when I was, I was noticing that Paco really was,

(19:08):
you know, taking a step back, and he said, Gutao,
you know, I think it's it's the time you're ready.
I'm gonna be there supporting you, by your side because
it's a it's a it's a transition process and it's
normal and I understand it. And and he supported my

(19:30):
candidacy and I was liketed unanimously. But at the same time,
most of the members were seeing me working always traveling
with Paco under the radar, but they would know, hey,
you know, and I would also work during the conventions
producing the event. And I had no fucking clue how

(19:51):
to produce an event. I don't come from that atmosphere
or background. I don't have a degree, but I just
you know, I was learning putting down fires and learning
a trial and error. Obviously, I would ask, hey, how
do you do this or I would resort to somebody
I got this idea. No, no, let's not do it

(20:13):
this way. And you know, now I'm in Bogota right
now because we have our convention in October of this year,
so I'm organized amerthing timely. It's my first convention. I
want to hit a home run. I've hired one guy
who who's a renowned boxing promoter that knows how to

(20:35):
do events and also he's he's been a good friend
and colleague and also mentored me in that regard. And
I also hired an expert from a hotel and entertainment
you know, feel that she can guide you. Okay, this
is the right tariffs, the hotel dynamics logistics, so I

(20:55):
would I would be guided accordingly with people that have
an expertise in those areas. So it's the logical course
of action in my view. So that's in general terms,
has been my uh, this roller coaster arrived with wo no.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
And I think it's important for people to hear that
because too many times people that don't know the inner
workings or how people can come about to their positions,
they sometimes just automatically assume that somebody just slid into
a spot and and don't realize all the work that
needed to happen before that that position, you know.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
What I mean.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
So I think it's important for people to understand that
now you once you were elected after getting the keys
to the yacht, as they say, right, how soon did
it all hit you that you are now the president
of a sanctioning body of the w BO that first
organized in nineteen eighty eight, but not recognize until two
thousand and for like, when when did it really hit

(22:02):
you that you were the guide now?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
To be honest with you, man, let me see, I
think when when the my first events attending as president,
the treatment is different, you know.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
And.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's it's cool, but I don't, you know, I'm just
I consider myself. I know, I'm gonna, you know, the
position and and what what the significance and the president
is the president here. But I'm just a regular guy man.
I just I want to keep myself grounded, you know,

(22:45):
keep learning, open to open and you know, open for
criticism and try to make things correctly, implement some changes.
But I don't want to have that oh oh here's
I'm not that type of guy man, And I don't
want to be something that I'm not. You get me,
people will see that, see through that. If I see

(23:08):
you Abraham and a show, Hey, well some man, how
you've been Let's grab a coffee. You want to do
an interview? Shoot, man, let's do it if if I
if I can't do it now, we'll schedule it later.
But I don't want to be with that. I try
to answer the phone to everyone, or reply to the
text or an email. I've done many podcasts, you know,

(23:29):
recognized level two lower, you know, not to recognized. I
don't have a problem with that. I think the I
think I have to be available to everyone because it's
not about me, it's about the boxers and bo But
I think my first couple of events that they treat
you different. And now people that used to look over

(23:53):
the shoulder, or they would they would have their percession,
would be who's this kid? Now? I was like, oh,
mister president, hey you're in there. But I don't you know,
I want to be the same guy with everyone. Yeah,
but surely you know I don't forget some instances, you.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Know, Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
Just so you know, Gusta, I'm a made man, so
I'm not at the at the lowest, lowest level.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
It's been about ninety days, right.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, usually anybody you know.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I was in the military. I spent twenty five years
in the Marine Corps. Retired from there.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
So thank you for your service.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
Thank you, And so I know what it is to
be like at the highest levels when when talking when
in at the executive level and apprise level, all those things.
The first ninety days is always the observation period. Whenever
you fulfill a position like that, you having the first
ninety days, are ready and the time to evaluate things.

(24:55):
What have you noticed so far that required your immediate attention.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
That's a great question. I think you've been You've been
the first UH I think you've been the first UH
boxing media rep that has asked me that question. Man
making changes to a structure that has been in place
for almost thirty years, that's tough because Paco had a

(25:26):
way of doing things. His his his his view, you know,
his perception, his mission, objectives, his goals, and that takes time.
Also his personnel. They've all they've they've all been under his.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
They've been conditioned a certain way.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, and there there's always some objection to changes, yes,
and I'll tell you one example. Internally, this is a
simple example. I've seen some letters that we exchange internally.

(26:07):
For example, a letter with a letterhead from a let's say,
the sanctioned letter from a from a particular fight. This
sanction letter has a different letterhead than another sanctioned letter.
Simple things. So those things I've I've said to my
employees now my colleagues and also like mentors that have

(26:30):
also guided me and helped me reach to this point.
I've told them we need to have consistency in the branding.
The WBO is a brand, it should have the same logo,
the same letterhead, the same formality, the same format like
for example, block format letter all letters, and that would

(26:51):
that would give a professional look to the organization, consistency
and would be like a standardized process. At first, nobody
you know that there's always some sort of uh objection
to some and this is just minor changes right other things. Remember,

(27:13):
since there's a structure, those big changes have to be
done slowly and also feeling feeling our members out touching.
How do you know. One of the changes that I've
that i've that I've started to implement is giving chance
to new officials. Mm hm. You always see the same

(27:36):
officials in the big fights. Sure, those officials with substantial experience, knowledgeable,
competent experience, championship level that you know you're gonna score
it blue or red, and the implications of the fighting question.

(27:56):
You have to consider that as well. But by I've
already appointed a couple of people. Excuse me, No, I'm
gonna give it a chance to this guy mm hm
and this girl. New new generations. We gotta renom. We
got to renovate. If you don't give a chance to

(28:17):
perform or execute, you can you can, you can, you
can execute and maybe you know, uh, strike out the
first one if you do it two or three. There's
a problem right from the from the judges and referee perspectives.
I've I've done those things. Some changes in that regard

(28:40):
the concept the mission of the w b O. I'm
trying to change it. Mhm. We can't simply be we
sanctioned the fight for a minority title. You get rated,
then you fight for the title. We give you the belt,
We give you maybe a reception with the belt, Sarah cremony.

(29:00):
That's that's cool and awesome. We give you like a
tracks to your gym equipment, boxing, gloves, head gear, w
b O, blah blah blah. We help you out with
the gym. That's awesome, that's cool. But we have to
do something. We we have to do something a game changer,

(29:21):
right that impacts directly the fighter. Now the question is
what is it? Right? But again, we have our limits
as well as resources, and we have hundreds of fighters
seeking an opportunity. One of the one of the things
that I've mentioned in previous interviews is like, for example,
we need to incentivize the boxers directly two and by

(29:45):
which they would say, if I fight for the w BO,
I'm betef I'm benefiting, benefiting personally, right, Like, for example,
we have a champion kid. Let's let's say, for example,
up and coming fighter like Xander's eyes, he becomes a
world champion. Uh makes four or five consecutive title defenses. Xander,

(30:11):
have you? Xander? The w BO will pay your housing fees,
the closing fees of your first property. We'll cover them
in light of making five consecutive world title defenses. This
is just an example of one of the concepts that
I've been trying to develop. Another thing, second, second, tier

(30:33):
fighters that don't reach that level as Crawford Canelo.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
In a way, I'm not saying using the heavyweights, the
big the money makers. You would have a guy like,
let's say, uh, relevant up and coming fight, second tier
level fighter that Charles Conwell, let's say, uh, let's say
Christopher ds right, he suffered the title to time with

(31:00):
must say you can eat the Japanese. And then when
nwarete almost there right, always in good fights. Most probably
he earned substantial persons in those particular fights he got
to that. He got to that second stage, but didn't
make it to you know, uh, the elite level. And

(31:24):
and and the WBO would say, hey, champ, we would
provide you maybe some seminars, ask you how to use
correctly social media to promote and market your brand because
fighters are a brand, right, or or let's say some
fighters that don't have promoters promotional backing. Hey, the w

(31:47):
BO will provide you the resources, either on site or
remotely through a you know, a zoom conference, how to
use correctly the social media platforms to out promote yourself,
your brand and maybe generate other sources of income not
dependent on boxing. Another thing would be financial literacy, simple terms.

(32:15):
What's the savings account, what's the checkings account? What's a
four oh one? K's what's the ten forty? When you
are professional services, right that you have to pay Social
Security because fighters are independent contractors. What's an investment account? Right?
The WBO can also develop a program called the wo

(32:40):
gifts back or pays back. We deduct you from your
fees and after I mean we deduct you from your
personal fee s action fees. But after three four fights,
we'll give you those same fees that we deducted, but
we'll put them in an investment account at least three
to five years, right, and that would generate some interest. Again,

(33:03):
A brien, we're just brainstorming here, of.

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Course, of course, but those are all things that are
relevant today, relevant now. I mean what you explained just
a minute ago are things that the NFL is doing
right for everybody that's coming out of college, giving them
the short and you know, it's having them understand that.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, and you don't have to reinvent the wheel Man. Yeah,
maybe replica replicate those policies or initiatives or programs from
other professional sports that would serve the boxers. But we
got to do more than what we have done the
sanctioning bodies for all these years, because either we adapt

(33:43):
to the times and we create those conditions that the
boxer would say, you know what, I want to fight
for the bio.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Mh.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I want to fight for the bio regardless if I
have to pay the fees. I'll pay the fees, but
I'm gonna get something out of it. I'm gonna becoming
a champion, and most probably I'm going to get something
out of it, you know. Yeah, Also programs whereby we
prepare those champions that are on diverge of retirement of

(34:18):
hey man, these are possible alternatives that you may have
as a champion, how to how to reincorporate yourself into
society outside the head of a box. Because boxes retire
one or two months you or something. They're back. They
don't know what to do, excuse me. So there's a

(34:42):
lot of there's a lot of things to be done,
a lot of work to be.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Done, interesting, interesting stuff, good stuff.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
You know.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
Going back to uh, when you were talking about you know, people,
some folks not accepting change and stuff. I was gonna
ask you, were there ever moments in these first ninety
days where you got the Butaco told me this or
uh me and Paco had an understanding from some other
boxing folks trying to kind of like run something.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, and again and again there were many
commitments before my entry as a president that Paco had
given his word, and his word is his bond. That's
what he that's what he has taught me. And I
have to honor that. Those commandments that Paco had, you know,

(35:31):
agree to, I have honored them. That's that's you know,
Paco's a man's man brother, you know, real O G,
real G. He'll say no, he'll say yes, but he
won't but but he won't give you no. Let me
see you know no, yes, but you know and then no,
I didn't tell you no. No is it my word?
Like he's a real O G, old school guy. So

(35:55):
I had the blessing of being mentored with a real
O G. So if I if those those promoters or managers, hey,
Baco told me this, I would say, let me let
me confirm Baco, okay, don't.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Do you Okay? All right?

Speaker 4 (36:12):
And you mentioned something about the judges, and I want
to touch on that real quick. That has always been
you know, like the topic of discussion, right, because you know,
outside looking in, folks get frustrated.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
They're like, why do we keep using the same folks?

Speaker 4 (36:26):
You know, some guys continue to to consistently turn in
bad cards, and it just doesn't seem like there's any
like repercussions. They don't have to face the media, they
don't have to answer the nobody, and then they get
pointed again for the next fight. So is there anything
that you're thinking about when it comes to the judges,
like maybe like a grading process or like an evaluation

(36:49):
process where we don't run into the situation where they're
the same guys that are putting in these bad cards
keep getting tabbed with these.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Big fights, developing internal scrutiny process to select those officials
that really you know that they're they're not going to
miss a beat, right, You can have an off night
like Chao Jordan used to have a lebron and and
now Donchek being you know, traded crazy. Right. And but

(37:24):
for example, I've I've seen judges that let's see, let's
see I check all the scorecards, man, I'm a freak. Okay,
how the hell do this guy scored? No way, I
checked the scorecard, the guy and the guy I reconally
appointed a guy out of respect to him, and also
I'm not going to disclose that that's internal course. But

(37:47):
he scored that fight was twelve to zero. He scored
eleven to one. So he gave a chattery round because
maybe in his mind he was like, I don't want
to be seen like I gave a shoutout and I
went to him, Hey, what can you explain to me

(38:08):
why the twelve front you scored it? Uh for the
other guy? And he was like he couldn't. He couldn't,
he couldn't make a good case. And I said, don't
be scared to you know, score the round as you
see it. Man. But that guy, he's in the penalty

(38:30):
box currently. You know no as well. Those guys that
that render scorecards that you know that are not You're out, man.
I'm not appointing you anymore, m or I'll appoint them
in in a regional A look, return back to the
minor leagues. Here are the big leagues. You you fuck up.

(38:52):
Excuse my you.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Know we're no good.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
You know this is real talk. You fuck up minor
leagues then and then we then you you progress again
and then you get another shot, because I believe in
second opportunities, man, of course, but but you need to
and also we got to renovate officials. Man the same people.

(39:17):
And you don't see a new blood, a new breed
of of officials coming in. Very few, very few officials
young maybe like your age, like my age at least,
because there's always some mm hmm. You know, you know
he's gonna take my job. He's gonna I will have

(39:38):
I will have less assignments. But if if the sport
doesn't you know, what what's what's the correct word, if
it doesn't evolve, or we're gonna have dinosaurs and and
and and as all stakeholders, you know.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
Yeah, no, you're right, you are absolutely right. Listen, you
mentioned about the wo conference and that was my next
topic here. Yeah, I know that you know you've hired.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Some folks to help you put it together.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
And yeah, I was going to ask you about that,
to ask if if you thought that the w BO
conference as it stood was still functional or where their
changes to the overall event that you feel like you
need to make you.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Know, absolutely, we have to this year's convention. I'm planning
to make it open it open to the general public. Okay, yeah,
you want to come, You pay the registration and you'll
get access to everything and you can see it with
your own eyes. Full transparency. How we work, how we

(40:48):
make our decisions, how the rankings are are discussed, the petitions,
the mandatories, the the the the the social thing, the activities.
I'm gonna try to do a museum of the w
BO within the hotel premises, a like a fight week,

(41:09):
like like the like the super Bowl uh week where
people meet their yeah yeah yeah, uh, their fans, memorabilia,
a real experience, right because remember there's a perception that
that many of the wrong doings of boxing are done

(41:31):
behind the scenes, right and rightfully, so to have that
type of legitimate concern because of the history. Right. But
but I can tell you, Abraham, it's if if that
doesn't happen, you know, And I can speak and and
I can speak, uh primarily from the w b o's position,

(41:54):
But and I always tell the fans come to the
w b O off, I'll open the doors, I'll shot,
I'll send you the files. Come one day, do a
report from my office and see how we work. People say,
for example, wo what Bob orders. Okay, but that it's

(42:15):
not that Bob calls, calls Pock or calls me or
ma ready, Hey, hey, I wanna. I want to do
this fight. And if the guy complies with the criteria
and has the merits, yes, if not, No, they had
they had Jannebeck who was gonna fight Shed As I

(42:36):
ordered that fight, shod As didn't want it. You're out right.
Then Janniebeck's team called me, hey, can you put Shay
Mosley Junior as the mandatory? Hell? No, who has he
fought as he comply with the ratings criteria? No? Am
I going to order a mandatory that hasn't complied. I

(42:58):
want to shoot myself on the foot I want to do.
I want to jeopardize the champion, the network, the sanctioning body,
the fighter. I don't want to, you know, I want to.
I want to. I want to. I want to. I
want to try to make things right and make some
changes and be very careful with my decisions because all
eyes are on me as a new kid, right and

(43:20):
I want to try to within within what my rules
allow me to do. So do things correctly, consistently and
by the book. Man. But transparency is paramount and One
of the things I'm going to start doing is once
I have the judges for a particular fight, I'll announce

(43:41):
announce them. These are the judges, boom and the scorecard.
Let's say, for example, this is the w BO score card. Right,
you would have Abraham right and uh and the rounds

(44:04):
and it would be ten nine, right and net ten nine.
But when the when the judge renders that score, you
don't know what was the analysis or the assessment of
why he reached that ten nine. I'm gonna put maybe
on the score card the criterias in a little checkbox close, moderate, decisive,

(44:32):
extreme decisive, right, and on the back of the score
card the scoring criteria, so they could have at all
times the criteria there for a refresher whatever, just as
a subconscious And if the scorecard is rendered and it's

(44:56):
a ten nine and it was uh, extreme decisive, right,
overwhelmedly decisive, and the guy pulls on the on the
box closed round, you know there's a problem.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, yeah, not like that, or.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
At least it's shed some light of what is the problem.
So these are these are you know, some ideas that
I'm trying to implement that don't require much not rocket science.
I think it's just taking what you have and trying
to do some twitches here and there to make it better.

(45:38):
Now you mentioned about whether officials should be subject to
public scrutiny as to making public remarks. I have my
concerns there. I have my consent consent concerns there because
not all of them could are. First of all, they're

(45:59):
not accustom them to address the media. Right, they should
be viewed as judges in the sense like in like
in like in a courthouse. Right, the judges they explain
their decision in writing, they're ruling, but they are not

(46:19):
subject to questions with the media for ethical, ethical grounds
and all that stuff. What I'm gonna do is most
probably starting next month, I'm gonna start making through social
media called w BO boxing one on one like simple informative,

(46:42):
educational post post w BO boxing. W BO boxing one
on one. How do you score around ten point muth
system at the end of the round either red or blue?
Ten and nine simple basic terms? How do you how
do you how do you point? How do you designate

(47:03):
boxing officials? How do you rank the fighter? How do
you move him up? How do you move him down?
How does he stay there. How do you exclude him?
How do you insert him to explain it, educate the fans.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Small doses and small doses.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Small doses, baby stuff, man, baby stuff, and and and
provide them through social media. Hey, these are the inner
workings because people, many people criticize and they don't know
what they're talking about. Yeah, oh this the guy got robbed.

(47:42):
No he didn't. It was it was it was a
very close fight. And and you oh, but the argument
of it could have gone either way. Yes, it's subjective, right,
And some officials, regardless of when you have the criterias there,
some official may say, you know, in their in their subconscience,

(48:03):
I like the aggressive fighter. I like the the more technical,
defensive type of fighter. But but it's not perfect. But
it works well. We have works there. There are more
consistent decisions than than than than than controversial decisions.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Listen.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
Recently, earlier today, I should say, press release came out
talking about strengthening ties to benefit boxing in Puerto Rican youth.
Jake Paul's Boxing Bullies is also involved in it. Can
you explain a little bit about the significance of what
happened that day where you had that meeting and everything
about the press release.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Okay, Well, the w b O, the w b O
S survives through the membership of its affiliates, right, the
official referees, judges, commission, et cetera. And the promoters through
the fights they promote and produced by way of the
sanctioning fees. If we have no fights, we have no income.

(49:13):
Right Like in the COVID everything was shut down. We
had no sources of income entering are our accounts? Right?
So what I want to do is I want to
start making alliances with government agencies and private sector industries

(49:37):
or companies and to have other sources of income, regardless
if they are for profit purposes. I would receive those
sources of income. And my vision as a nonprofit, the
scope of my mission and objective, the existence of what
you know, the purpose of for why we exists, to

(50:01):
help the use the kids, the boxing, the social aspects.
Expand the scope of our mission and objectives by way
of having more resources private funding government. That's primarily the
idea we started. It's a new it's a new it's

(50:22):
a new government in Puerto Rico. And this is the
Secretary of Sports and Recreational Government. Agency. They have their
own how do you say, their own budget, their own
regulatory things and plans throughout the whole island. The guys
the secretary is a boxing freak, so it's it's it's

(50:49):
makes sense. So every initiative or every activity or program
that the WBO implements, if we can have them on board,
it adds to the BOH. It doesn't subtract to the BO.
So first we have more resources. Second, UH, the it's

(51:14):
a broader scope of engagement and exposure because they have
their own a media team, it's the whole agency, Department
of Sports for the whole island. Number Three, our brand,
the awareness that it's more than it's more than just
boxing to individuals exchanging back and forth. It's more than that.

(51:38):
It's community outreach, it's making changes, excuse me, and the
use the communities. Boxing is the first thing, right, it
should be. It should be directly tied to boxing. But
if we can use our resources and combine them with
the government and private entities, sponsored sponsorships, endorsements for the

(52:04):
benefit of the BO, but the boxers themselves. And I'll
give you an example. I got a call today from
a UH solar panel company right. They want to have
a sort of title to give it out to their

(52:27):
marketers and sellers of their solar panels, so they would
have a monthly selling competition of who will be the
most who will be the best seller of the company
during that month. Right. I told, oh, you guys do
solar panels. What else do you guys do? Oh, we
also work with roofing when you have roofing problems. So

(52:54):
I said, well, let's meet. We can do maybe a
partnership or an exchange. I'll give you the belt, We'll
put a w B O and your logo. You would
use it within your employees and you would and you
would provide me maybe UH solar panels for a boxing
gym that needs it, or you would get you would
give me at least some budget to use it for

(53:17):
equipment rehabilitation of a gym. UH scholarship who knows. But
I wouldn't be solely dependent on a boxing fight. Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
That's smart, you see.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, So those are things that I'm trying to and
and yes, sir, it was the first partnership we did
with the UH, the Sports and Recreational UH Department of
Puerto Rico because We're a Puerto Rican based UH sanctioning body,
and we're the only sports institution founded by Puerto Ricans

(53:55):
with home office of Puerto Ricans with with home office
in Puerto Rico West International, UH reach, the only one,
and some people don't don't even know it in Puerto Rico.
So I want to I want to do differently.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
Got you, got you all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna
hit the the fight business here hot and heavy. Hot
out off the press maybe about an hour ago they
said that the Terrence Crawford Canelo is off.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I saw that, Man, I saw that. I had no clue.
I have to make to see what the hell happened.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Yeah, So I was gonna ask you, like, you know,
what does that mean for Terrence Crawford because he's the
interim champ at one four if I'm not mistaken, right
with the w O SO and Sebastian fan Dura is
rumored to be fighting shaw Dale Booker.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Uh yeah, that's that's a dune deal mar mid March
in March.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
Okay, So if Terrence is not gonna fight Canelo, you know,
you guys probably have to have a discussion about you.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Know what happens with him next, Right.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
We do because I want to. I want to first,
I'm not I'm not a fan of interim championships.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Who's gonna ask you that later?

Speaker 2 (55:09):
But said that, I'm against, I'm against the term championships
unless extraordinary circumstances warrant an in term championship, which which
may be injury, which is the obvious one. Uh, the
fighter has a let's say, a legal impediment, right or
a extraorinary circumstances not attribute attributed to him that would

(55:34):
prevent him from from fighting. And three, if if the
champion is unifying and pursuing undisputed UH status, whereby there
are plans that if he wins this undisputed then he's
gonna I mean disunification. He's gonna unify again, because that's
what the trend is, you know, showing well to give

(55:59):
other fighters an opportunity to keep the division active, I
can certainly consider an interim or we have a similar
situation like TiO Femo. Who the hell knows what's going
to happen with de Femo, the uncertainty that he's been
a little bit inactive. So we did what we had
to do. I first said no, this is an elimination.

(56:19):
Bolt and Paco. Let me tell you. Paco told me, no,
you should do an intern. I said, no, I want
to do elimination. Beout. I don't want to do an interim.
Then elevate him through an email through a legal document.
I don't want to do that. The same goes stripping
a champion through a legal document that that would be
the last resort.

Speaker 5 (56:39):
Right.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
So the THEO thing, unfortunately took place with top right.
So what we did was the elimination. We elevated to interim,
which I think was a reasonable decision. But within one
hundred and eighty days, no later than August too, and
the winner got fight.

Speaker 4 (56:59):
I was gonna ask you if if.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
But before Sorry, but going back to the Crawford to
answer your question. Yeah, I don't know what happened. I'm
gonna you know, I'm gonna make some calls, but I
got to talk to Terrence and his team. We're very
close Terrence's w BO family and see what he wants
to do. Because he's in he's he's entitled to give
him a chance to hear him out. What do you

(57:23):
want to do, Champ? You know we'll accommodate your needs
as within what my rules allow me to do so,
but certainly, you know, I gotta tell him, hey, Champ,
we have to do something with the interim because I can't.
I can't have I can't have two champions. If he
says I'll fight, we'll order the fight and we'll we'll

(57:44):
terminate the interim champion status.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Gotcha, gotcha?

Speaker 4 (57:48):
And then so for for tell Femo, you haven't heard
anything about him and Hitchens potentially fighting.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I've heard, I've heard.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Okay, you've heard of that.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Apparently, apparently that's in the works. What I told t
O he called me directly on my phone myself. I said, hey, Champ,
how are you. Everything's okay? You know, this is WBO,
this is your house. Whatever you know, always available for
you and your team. But I have to play by
the rules, you know, And I have to abide by

(58:18):
my rules and enforce them consistently. If not, I'll be
just a puppet here. So I cannot guarantee you anything
as of now. You have to comply with the ruling.
And and I told him once, if the Hitchins unification
materializes itself, your team will need to file a petition

(58:41):
to the BO that would be referred to the Championship Committee,
which is composed of four members. They would see the
pros and cons the arguments raised by the parties, the
arguments raised by the winner of Catarin Malbosa.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
They would consider what's the best how the best interests
of my wing or served as to which decision they
would they would ruin the matter. I don't want to
be I don't want to be forcing an issue that
it's beyond my duties. That's why we have committees. I
could make I could make a recommendation, but the committee

(59:16):
either votes or approves or denies. I don't want I
don't want it. I don't I don't want my colleagues
to be a rubber stamp.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Got you recently, maybe a couple of weeks ago, I
saw you put out a letter for Sam Goodman that
he needed to provide a medical documentation.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
States on that, Yeah, Sam Goodman, as you know, suffer
an injury is sparring. And then you got twice we
have to you know, we we issued what is show
what is called a show cause letter where he has
to provide reliable evidence through a certified medical physician as

(59:59):
to what is his condition, the prognosis of recovery, time
when he will be able to fight. Apparently he will
be he will be able to fight within I believe
June or July. I think I think the promoter, Matt
Rose will call me recently. I think on Monday he's
gonna put him in a in a tune up fight.

(01:00:23):
But we will have we will have to see what
the committee determined, because he hasn't fought in over a year. Yeah,
so if you're the number one and you haven't fought
over a year, that has some implications. The question would be, well,
but he got injured, Okay, he got injured now recent mhm,

(01:00:47):
but he wasn't active right at the same time, you
could you could say, well he's fought rated opposition. It
will be uh in an an injustice, you know, to
demote him or exclude it from the radio. We're gonna
sortoughly consider the particular aspects of the case because I
could certainly uh uh sympathize with with with with the

(01:01:11):
with his circumstances. But you know, I don't make the
final decision. I recommend to the committee. The committee renders
the rooming and we shall we shall see because in
a way has the IVF mandatory first, which is Goodman.
I will have to consult with there, my friend, to
see what is what is his position? We also have

(01:01:34):
Goodman number one. Also you have the WB there, but
they're talking about the WBC, so multiple, multiple interests coming
into play.

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Gonzalez, I see his number one at
one fifteen. Has there been any discussions about him and
UH and his UH ranking with the w BO.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Most probably will fight the South African gold champion. They're
just you know, there are ongoing negotiations to do that
fighting Managon he got out of. Once that materializes itself,
probably the promoter will announce it. But there are, you know,
behind the scenes moves towards that direction.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
I see Bruce Shushu Carrington. He's number one at the
w BO as well, and he is it looks like
he's not with the WBC as well. New York City, Yes,
New York City. He's got a fight coming up soon.
Has there any been discussions of him going the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
WBO route for he's curly number one. He knows that
just discharged his mandatory against so he has you know
ample time to unify, and if he wants to unify,
we're going to certainly allow him to unify. Yeah, there,
there shouldn't be any problem because he's a top racked fighter.

(01:03:04):
Shoesho's a top re fighter. I think Shoeshoes still, I
think top rack still considers him that he he may
need one or two more fights. Yeah, before you know,
and and who knows if its moves up to one
thirty and fights now, which will be fireworks thereafter. He
would have Shoesho fighting for the vacant so remains to

(01:03:26):
be seen. But Shoeses on the verge for a world
title shot with the Bio obviously he he loves that,
uh Burgundy, the Bio. Puerto Rico.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
Yeah, when I spoke to him, he went a couple
of times, I think with his fiance and he really
enjoyed himself over there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Nice guy, nice guy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Yeah, speaking of Puerto Rico, Xander Zyaz he's he's fighting
next week and I know he's ranked number one. That
was a spot that I think Josh Kelly was if
I'm not mistaken, not too long ago.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Yeah, so is Xander.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
I mean, how's that situation with Xander for him potentially
getting a shot.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Well, now with the Crawford scenario making a twist, Xander,
who is on the verge of you know, hitting a
home run, I have to first terminate the interim championship, right,
that will be the mandatory. Crawford and spent. Crawford and

(01:04:32):
will be the mandatory. So let's say we can. The
possible scenarios are the following Funda and Crawford fight. We
terminate the interim and the winner has no mandatory, and
Xander will need to wait until the mandatory comes to
force him to face the champion, unless the champion wants

(01:04:54):
to do a voluntary with Xander. Top Rang knows how
to maneuver those things. They're gonna protect their investment. I'm
not I'm not saying Xander's not ready. He may be ready,
but you know, if Crawford's there, that's the big dog
in one fifty four. Whereas if Crawford moves up, I
really think that Xander will be would certainly have tremendous

(01:05:21):
shot to winning the bo belt. It will be also
a terrific fight classical styles. Xander is a boxer, uh
you know, speed, lateral movements. Intelligent guy has his you know,
significant power, not devastating power, but you know, can bang
a little and if you're not, it's just you know,

(01:05:44):
like you know, like in the pocket type of fight.
Doesn't use it doesn't use his distances reached his jab.
So I think it's a good mess of styles. But
let's see what happens now, because the Crawford, you know,
Crawford has the key.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
Yeah, yeah, all right. And then on the at the heavyweights,
it looks like Parker, if I'm not mistaken, Parker is
gonna be He's gonna walk in with the interim title
against the boi, but then we'll be stripped.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
At that point. La Jan is number one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
He's fighting for the interim w b C. Yeah yeah,
okay for the Once they fight for the inter they're out.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
You know, got you got you okay, all right? And
then I think this is gonna be the last question.
I appreciate your time again. I'm yeah, what are three
things that you told yourself that you want to get
done while president that will ultimately define your legacy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Damn man. Number one would be creating my own style, right,
my own style, my own path, doing things the way
I consider them to be appropriate, Right, playing by the

(01:07:17):
book integrity, honesty, transparency, and also accepting my mistakes. If
somebody criticized me and I fuck up, you know, I
have to be a man's man and say, you know what,
this decision didn't go the way or I made the
right I made the wrong decision, accepting my mistakes as

(01:07:38):
well being truth truthful to myself and also taking the
bio to you know, to another level from a marketing standpoint,
branding exposure and having a having a direct impact on
the fighters. And one more thing I want to have

(01:08:00):
like our main office. It's a little bit small, very
very simple. If you go, you would say, wow, this
is this is a world boxing uh you know office
because it's very moderate, very moderate, and we have maybe
three employees with me four, you know, and we're a

(01:08:20):
world sanctioned body with huge resources of of you know,
of of reach and members and all that stuff. I
want to have like a w b O satellite, you know,
main office where you would have the w BO Hall
of Fame right section, you will have a w WO store,

(01:08:46):
you would have uh a legal a h w BO
theater where you would have the seminars of education continued
education for the judges having a uh the box you
want to watch a fight, come to the WBO theater.
You would watch the WBO fights and we would charge
something simple to cover some expenses or maybe use that

(01:09:09):
that income to like a like a raffle for for
a boxing gym, but the community a w b O
boxing gym where you would train. The general public would
come or the kids and we would have boxers and
we would we would hire maybe up and coming boxers. Hey,
help the kid with the myths, or train, do seminars

(01:09:31):
you know. Yeah, have all the activities that the pressors
have a conference room for. Uh, how do you say that?
Stream the person bit proceedings. Yes, so people can see
what the hell's going on, you know those things. I

(01:09:53):
would say that, you know, making changes, consistency, doing things
correctly help the fighters directly. Man, because the questions m hm,
oh what do they do with the sanctioning feest that
has that has to have a purpose, Yeah, be beyond
you know, the scholarships, the kids, the gyms. That's cool,

(01:10:16):
but some questions are like, yeah, but what about me?
The money they're taking out of my pocket? Right, that's
that's the argument. It's not that we're taking You want
to fight for the boh, you're not obliged to fire
for the bo. You can select whichever title you want.
There are many of them. Right. If you want to
fight with the BIO, well you have to pay something

(01:10:37):
because there's some operational costs, you know. But if you
go to our office, you would say, well, these guys
are responsibly financially in the sense of overhead and expenses.
All of our paperworkers dually fight at the Federal Trade
Commission on a yearly basis. You can see our financial

(01:11:00):
tax reports everything. So we played by the book. But
if we but we need to do more from a
you know, optical standpoint. Yeah, you know, so people could say,
you know what this is, this is a sanction whether
that really you know, does it right you know? Or

(01:11:20):
intense to do so?

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
Yeah, all right, well listen, gut, I appreciate your time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
I'm answering everything this evening and uh yeah, man, I
wish you, uh the best of luck in during your
time as president for the WO for years to come.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Thank you, my man. Always a pleasure. You have a
good night.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Okay, thank you you too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Take it to the box of us out