How Trump Is Turning the Charlie Kirk Tragedy Into a Power Grab

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The reality is that every major study that's been done,
whether it's been done by the Anti Defamation League, which
is kind of vaguely pro Trump these days, or it's
been done by the FBI in the past, or it's
been done by other legal specialists, show that most of
the violence that's done political violence in the United States

(00:20):
comes from the far right.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm Johanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast Podcast. What
an extraordinary week it's been in America? Is this a
watershed moment? We're here to discuss. Hugh Dockerty, our executive editor,
who's been monitoring our incredibly busy news coverage over the
last few days. And the brilliant David Rothkop, former member
of the Clinton administration and a former editor of Foreign

(00:44):
Policy magazine, who's well sourced throughout DC and who can
shed line and always brings a very helpful perspective on
really the remarkable events of the last few days. Hueye,
what else are we going to be talking about? Someone
else is getting on this way, something else is going
on this week, Joanna. Donald Trump is leaving the country

(01:06):
and he is going to London, where he is going
to have a state visit with King Charles, a man
with more gold than the Oval Office, more properties than
the Trumps, but much less power than the President. And
he I'm very curious tonight if King Charles will raise
the subjects of Donald Trump paving over Jackie Kennedy's rouse garden.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
He is known as the plant whisperer because he literally
speaks to plants, and he cannot be pleased about any
loans being removed.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
And I just can't imagine what the two of them
talk about when they meet each other.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, we don't have to imagine. We will soon find
out exactly what happens between them, you mean, because Donald
Trump will tell us, Because Donald Trump will tell us, yes,
there are some certainties in life death taxes, and that
Donald Trump will tell us. Well that Donald Trump won't
won't stop talking, He will not stop talking. All right,
let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Normally, huw Dockerty, our executive editor at the Beast, and
I would be joining David Rothkopf in his beautiful book
lined library. But David has had an auto emergency and
he's actually at the shop, but persuaded him to talk
to us. Regardless, David, thank you, and I have to

(02:28):
say your auto shop looks a lot smarter than mine.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Well, you're very kind, and you're very kind to distract
me from sitting around waiting for my car to be read.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Well, we're excited to talk to you. This is so
much going on. If Hugh I will volunteer has been
glued to Fox watching Cash Betel's tour. It's not an
apology tour. What is it?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I think Cinics might see Joanna that it is a
see my job tour cash Pitail. Of course, before he
was FBI director, had a distinguished career as, among other things,
a cigar entrepreneur, a children's book author, Maga children's children's
book author. I'm a podcaster, not as distinguished as anybody

(03:15):
that I am broadcasting speaking to here, and also a
t shirt hawker, but to sell Maga merch, Maga merch,
and it was branded cash Katie Dollar sign.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
H right, Okay. So now he's head of the FBI.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yes, And that promotion has proved a bit tricky for him.
He has been the subject of a whispering campaign inside
the Maga world that Pam Bondy, the Toney General, has
lost confidence in him and that they are preparing for
him to be replaced by Andrew Bailey, who is a
newly appointed deputy. So he's been on the on the

(03:54):
Fox and Friends Sofa this morning and he will be
on with Sean Hannity later. And it really is an
attempt to save his job, is how people are seeing it.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And Andrew Bailey was brought in as a sort of
job share with Dan Bongino, formerly a podcast currently number
two at the FBI, because Dan Bongino, like Cash Pattel
have long been supporters have released the Epstein files right.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
And Cash Pattel has been very damaged inside the MAGA
world by the Epstein fallout. He said, you know, he
and Dan Bongino, when they were in private life, were
inflaming this situation and they were talking about release the secrets,
tell the truth. They then got the opportunity to release
the secrets and promptly told Mega, oh, in fact, we're
not releasing any secrets and there aren't any interesting ones anyway,

(04:44):
and we'd all like you to move on, but people
have not.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Is Dan Bongino also part of the whispering campaign?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
It looks like Dan Bongino and Cash Bateel probably come
as a joint deal, but it's cash Patel, who's definitely
goes head above the power on this one.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
So he's been doing the rounds of the Fox News sofas.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes, and he went on Fox and Friends and it
was by Fox and Friends standards, this is normally a
very friendly environment for those who are part of the
Trump world. He was asked a fairly direct question by
Brian Kilmeade who asked him, why did you post on
X that there had been an arrest of a possible

(05:26):
suspect and it turned out that this was completely wrong.
This person was entirely innocent, and he said, I was
just keeping people up to date. But that's not really
what we expect from the head of the FBI. We
don't expect a live blog. We expect accurate facts.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And I think did an NBAC report that when he
was doing that, he was actually tucking in to a
delicious meal at REO's, the almost impossible to get a
table restaurant. It's only got i think eight tables that
all already subscribed to people, and to get a seat
at Rao's comes with incredible cachet.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
John F.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Kennedy or John Kennedy Junior used to have a taste, Yes, exactly.
He posted this on Twitter at six twenty one Eastern time,
and as soon as the doors opened on this incredibly
exclusive restaurant, which is basically a private club in Manhattan,
he was spotted going in. It's known for, among other things,
it's meatballs and it's sauce. But it's certainly an eyebrow

(06:30):
raising aspect of this that the head of the FBI
was not anywhere near the man hunt. He was not
at FBI headquarters, he was not at Quantico. He was
in New York dining in a very exclusive venue.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
So, David, you have plenty of sauces, not tomato sauces,
I hasten to add from Rao's. Well, you may have
Raos tomato sauce because they do actually bottle. It's delicious,
quite expensive, which is rather good. But you have plenty
of law enforcement sources, intelligence sources. You are a fixture

(07:07):
on the Washington landscape. And I know you talked to
lots of people. What are they saying about cash Battel.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Well, no one has really ever thought cash Battel was
up for this job. He has no experience in this
area really to speak of. He was primarily seen as
a provocateur and as a podcaster. You know, earlier you
mentioned that Pam Bondi is losing confidence in him. I'm

(07:34):
not one hundred percent sure that she or anybody ever
actually had confidence in him, and I think people were
waiting for, you know, the first issue to come up
where he would reveal himself to being competent. As it happens,
that's this issue where a friend of his was murdered
and he both managed you know, this kind of feat

(07:59):
of appearing too close to this in a way that
actually may have some legal consequences and also you know,
too out of touch to actually know what was going on.
And so you know, he he within the FBI. Of course,
over the course of the past couple of weeks, as

(08:21):
you know people have seen or months even as people
have seen the firings that have gone on because people
were involved, for example, in the January sixth investigations, there
is a huge amount of resentment among FBI agents towards
cash Battel and that's that's only been compounded. There was

(08:43):
a he and Bongino got onto a call, which I
think you've reported about at the beast, to say you've
got to find the guy there's a lot of pressure
on us, and it was profanity laden, and that also
alienated more people within the FBI to think that he's
not competent. Because he's not competent.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's rather depressing conclusion. I mean, can I just having
covered many of these types of events, not perhaps as
big as Charlie Kirk, but certainly having covered crimes in
states across the country. I mean I have some sympathy
for law enforcement because this isn't always very straightforward. Who's

(09:30):
done it? I mean, yes, there was a picture. I mean,
cash Fattel seemed absolutely furious that they hadn't shown him
the picture as soon as they had it, and they'd
obviously delayed giving it to him. But they did release
the photo, which carries its own burden because often people
come up with false leads, right, And they did get

(09:51):
the guy. I mean, they may have got him because
his family gave him up, but within thirty hours the
alleged killer had been take can into custody.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
I think the cash pitel of this is that there
is clearly he has a major problem with his FBI agents,
that they do not respect or trust him, and we
don't really know the full truth of this twelve hours
delay in giving him the photo. But he had just
tweeted something that was wrong and badly wrong and potentially

(10:25):
set back the investigation. So it's conceivable and understandable that
FBI agents might not pass him material in case he
tweets it.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
He's also aggressively trying to claim that this was an
amazing investigation At his direction. He mused the words me
and I, I believe fifteen or sixteen separate times in
the course of an eight, seven or eight minute interview
on Fox, And he's really trying to own the idea

(10:56):
that the arrest was down to his actions.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
MAGA. People who are not getting behind.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
This say, well, it was just luck he got that,
you know, the father London, the suspect, and that's not
brilliant police work.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, I suppose if he does get fired, we're all podcasters,
so we might get offered the director of the FBI.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
Joanna, I can think of nobody better. But I think
I like David Rothkoff.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
David, I think, would you like to be ahead of
the FBI?

Speaker 1 (11:25):
No, but but I will work when you become the
head of the FBI, Joanna, I will be very happy
to work for you.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Rod, that happens. That's all I'm saying that that would
I mean the cash Betel might be incompetent running it.
I'm not saying I would do it any better. And
what do we think of Andrew Bailey potential replacement? I
we're currently sharing the job with Dan Bongino as the
number two.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Well, the advantages he brings.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Is that he is absolutely he's absolutely mat gathers no
doubts about his loyalties. He was attorney general of a
very conservative statement. But he was a very conservative attorney general,
and that the ability to manage things is clearly clearly
a problem for Cash Bateael and Don Bungino. As for

(12:11):
how he has viewed in national security circles, David del
Defel to you on.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
That, Yeah, David, what are you well without Andrew Bailey?

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Well, no, I mean he's seen as a as a
conservative politician. I think he's probably more in tune as
a former attorney general with Pam Bondi. And Pam Bondi has,
you know, over time, really solidified her relationship with Trump
by demonstrating herself to be his lawyer, following through defending

(12:43):
him in all things and I think, you know, Cash
Barttel got into this because he was sort of you know,
bright light in the in the Maga universe, not because
he was particularly well suited to this, Whereas if Pam
BONDI got to remake this inner image, a guy like
Bailey makes more sense. And I said that, I don't

(13:06):
think he's going to be extremely well trusted among most
FBI agents. Uh, these purges have really done a lot
of damage, and their their lack of concern for you know,
the business of the FBI, sending FBI agents into Washington,
d C. For example, or putting them on to you know,

(13:29):
deal with Trump administration priorities, has taken them away from
their core jobs. The FBI has been asked not to
really track foreign you know, espionage in ways that it
that it did in the past. Other things that have
been extremely important to the FBI and are extremely important
to the national security community have gotten shunted aside because

(13:52):
their agenda is political. And I don't think putting Bailey
in this position is going to diminish skepticism that much.
Although having said that, Cash Curtell's a terrible choice, and
you know, Bailey is somewhat more competent, So we're going
to go from the bottom of the barrel to a

(14:14):
little above the bottom of the barrel.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Is there anything in Cashpitel about him claiming that the
reason he tweeted out and I totally get that he
tweeted out the wrong thing. But his argument that we
are trying to be transparent, we're trying to tell people
what's going on.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
There, Well, I think there are There are two answers.
There's many answers to that. There's two There's two answers
to that, and one is that sounds like a good idea.
It sounds like a helpful idea. Transparency is a great thing.
The other answer is that the FBI are the premier
law enforcement organization maybe in the world, because you trust them,

(14:56):
you trust that what they say is true. And one
of the big problems that Pam Bondi and her prosecutors,
specifically in Washington, DC, are finding is that they can't
get indictments past grand juries on their chosen causes. And
the diminution of trust in the FBI is extremely dangerous.

(15:18):
And the reason not to be transparent in real time
is because you need to be sure it's true and
it's right, and it's accurate because people need to trust
the FBI, and if people stop trusting the FBI, then
they can't. You know, it attacks the basis of prosecutions.
It's a difficult path to go down for an organization

(15:40):
that spent David, you will have far greater historical context
on this than I do. But fifty years ago, it
was in a disgraceful position after Jaeggar Hoover and after Nixon,
and it really has called its way back and made
its health in an organization people trust.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, it certainly has. It certainly has improved its reputation
from the days of jay Ed Crohover. But you know,
having said that, uh, you know, reputations are easily destroyed.
And when you have a an FBI director who's going
out and spreading things that aren't true, you know, he

(16:21):
says it's transparency. It's not transparency if what you're saying
is the lie, right, it's not. You know, just giving
words it doesn't doesn't create transparency. You actually have to
give perspectives on the truth. And they've tried to be
ahead of this story for political reasons, and that continues
to be an issue. You know, I thought it was

(16:44):
quite interesting that Governor Cox of Utah yesterday I spent
a lot of his time on morning shows saying we
don't know what the motive is yet, whereas Patel and
these others have been trying to attribute a motive, trying
to say that this is political, you know, and you know,
I mean JD. Vance took over Charlie Kirk's podcast today

(17:10):
had on Stephen Miller, and they were talking about you know,
you you know, the left being behind all of this
violence and turning the power of the government against the left.
And so you know, what you really see here is
that there is a move from Trump and from Miller
and from J. D. Vance and from a lot of
these people not to solve the crime, not to be transparent,

(17:35):
but actually to use the crime as a justification for
their authoritarian power. Grap and the real story this week
is not mourning Charlie Kirk, is how is this administration
going to use the death of Charlie Kirk as an
excuse to overreach, to target their enemies, to gain more,

(18:00):
more and more executive powers. It's a trigger and you know,
if it's not quite the Reichstag moments, some people are
calling it it's the same exact game where you look
for an excuse to grab power, and that's what's going
on right now.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Well, you mentioned Spencer Cox, Governor Cox of Utah, who
I thought was masterful in the way that he took
over from Cash Battel at the press conference when they
announced that they got him, and of course he used
the phrase we got him, reminiscent of George Bush talking

(18:39):
about Sadam Hussein. And he is a moderate Republican and
it's been extraordinary to see him emerge. I mean, he's
been a governor that's been very much under the national radar,
extremely critical of Trump. In the past. He was a
supporter of Marco Rubio. When Marco Ribio in twenty sixteen
didn't carry on with the he then switched his allegiance

(19:01):
to Ted Cruz. He said he would never vote for
Hillary Clinton, but he also wouldn't vote for Donald Trump.
And suddenly he finds himself in the spotlight. And I
thought he was very impressive at that press conference, letting
Cash Pateel do his thing and then leaning literally leaning
on the podium and saying, Okay, social media is not real,

(19:22):
get the grass under your feet, go out there. Democrats
and Republicans have been calling me that telling me they're
talking about this, we must get together and talk about this,
and it felt very reassuring.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
Well, this is this is a really intriguing moment. With
Spencer Cox coming forward onto the national stage. It is
quite possible for the governor of Utah to speak to
the people of Utah and nobody else to notice, right,
and we haven't really seen much of them. He did
a kind of media tour in twenty twenty three with

(19:56):
Jared Powis, who's the Democratic governor of Corai, obviously the
neighboring states, and their theme was disagree better. So he's
coming forward and he's presenting a different version of being
a modern Republican, and he has done it in a
way that has clearly resonated with people about social media.

(20:17):
He he I think is going to get people talking
about presidency presidential candidacies. Whether he's interested that, we don't know,
but it's certainly something that people are going to start
talking about.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Well, I think he's a sort of riveting figure. I mean,
having not known anything about him, I've frantically been reading
the most exciting thing that I want to know with
both of you. Although you may have known is this
is he's related to an Osmond. He's related to Meryl Olmund,
one of the Osmond brothers, not as a good looking

(20:50):
as Donny Osmond, but only one done Johnny Osmond. But
his brother in law is actually Meryl Osmond's thumb, which
I found really intriguing. But he's also fascinating character. Got
into Harvard Law School, didn't go to Harvard Law School
as Utah educated through and through, married to his college sweetheart,

(21:12):
we have four kids. It's a very Utah story, anti abortion,
but in fact banned laws that would have forbidden trans
students from taking part in sports on the grounds that
there were only four trans students in the state. And
he said, you know, most of them are actually struggling
to stay alive, as a fifty six percent suicide rate

(21:36):
among this group. And so he sounds like and he's
actually passed various legislations to help LGBQT groups. So he's
a very nuanced Republican governor. I think of the kind
we haven't seen for a long time.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Well, well, let's be I.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Know it doesn't agree with me here. You think I've
been seduced by govern on a Cox and.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
I might do a bit.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think it's the Osmond connection. But you mesmerized you
But but you know, I mean, is he more nuanced
than Donald Trump? Yes, you know. Is he a conservative
Republican who, by you know, sort of any normal Republican
standards prior to ten years ago, would have been considered

(22:24):
pretty far right.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yes. You know.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Part of the sort of sensitivity on the issues of
gay people in Utah has to do with the fact
that historically gay people were treated pretty badly by the
Mormon Church and there were some real problems that took
place at Brigham Young University in these other places across Utah,
and they responded to it, and they responded in a

(22:48):
constructive way. I believe, you know, he is a genuinely
you know, unlike Trump, who talks about religion, you know,
as if he were reading it off of a Q card, because.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I'm well, holding the Bible upside down? Right?

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Well that yeah, right June first, twenty twenty, when he
did that, when he walked across to the church at
his daughter's suggestion, it wasn't even his own idea, you know,
I think he genuinely believes these things, and who knows it.
I think it's quite possible that Trump and Miller and
Vance and all these other people go far too far,

(23:23):
even for the Republican Party, and you get on your
way to twenty twenty eight to people starting to say, well,
you know, can can we do something a little better
than that? Marco Rubio, who I think is trying to
position himself to be that has undermined his credibility a
great deal by you know, turning into a poodle for Trump.

(23:46):
And so somebody like this guy might emerge now having
said that, you know, you are saying, oh, I see him,
and he's great, and he's a great alternative to Trump.
You know, if other people in the media agree with you,
Trump will put the kebash on him. You know, they'll
they'll bury this guy because they won't want the competition

(24:07):
for Trump. And I would note that, you know a
lot of this story in the past week has been
in Utah, but in this next week, the funeral is
taking place in Arizona, and I think the story is
going to shift and it will allow them to change
the cast of characters a little bit to suit the President,

(24:28):
who is actually going to the funeral on Sunday at
the Arizona Cardinals NFL football Stadium, And you know, I
think what you're going to end up with is the
world's first funeral slash maga rally, right, and it's going

(24:49):
to be pretty hideous.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
It's well, the Sunday event has been described as a
memorial service, right, but I don't think we actually, right know,
have precise details of how that is. Then is then
followed by a private service of uh you know, at
his church he was a meanline Protestant, although he had
recently been attending Catholic church with his with his wife,

(25:12):
who is a Catholic. So we we think of slightly
uncluar or not, but we definitely are getting a Trump rally.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Well, I saw Kerry Lake getting very excited.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
That is.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
It's fantastic, isn't she She She was saying that the
reason this guy killed Charlie Kirk was because he was
corrupted by college education and that mothers should not send
their children to college because they could end up being killers.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Well, as a mother, I would say that if I
would be nervous about having a child go to that rally. Actually,
I think that it's scary to be big crowds of
people right now, especially people who are angry.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
I think no doubt.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
I think the point you make about crowd and angry
is we are seeing the reaction to Charlie Kirk's death
is playing out. We will see this huge event, clearly
huge event with Trump at it, but we're also seeing
it play out on social media, the thing that the governor,
the Spencer Cox, was so vehemently speaking out against. But

(26:27):
on social media there's a whole lot of anger and
it's directed from Charlie Kirk supporters, from MAGA towards people
who are criticizing Charlie Kirk and saying that they don't
want to share in that grief. And I think as
a moment of danger, there are certainly there's certainly going
to be a huge security presence at this funeral, but

(26:49):
that may well be that the danger here is much
much wider.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Than that, and the danger is on social media.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Dangers on social media, and the danger is that social
media is being used to tell target people who do
not agree with the grief over Charlie Kirk. And that
would appear to be what used to be called cancel
culture and used to be the thing oppaused by the
right and the.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
President of the Oxford Union, who's who's just about to
take up his position, has got into trouble for saying
Charlie Kirk lol and claiming that in the speed of
the moment and the height of the moment, he sort
of jumped in, and various people have reported him and
now there are calls for him to resign or whatever,

(27:32):
and he's saying, it's just free speech. It's just debated
in Oxford.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Let's let's try to put this into some perspective, Okay.
The reality is that every major study that's been done,
whether it's been done by the Anti Defamation League, which
is kind of vaguely pro Trump these days, or it's
been done by the FBI in the past, or it's
been done by other you know, legal specialists, show that

(27:59):
most of the violence that's done political violence in the
United States comes from the far right. And this, you know,
they are trying to use this. In fact, jd. Vance
and Stephen Miller once again tried to perpetuate this notion
that the left do the same. The left don't do

(28:20):
the same. Most of the people who have gotten fired
or called out have not been people making fun of
the death of Charlie Kirk. They've been people saying, you know,
quoting Charlie Kirk. There's a woman, Karen Adia, who is
the writer for the Washington Post, who got fired over
the weekend, not for saying anything about Charlie Kirk, per se,

(28:44):
but simply quoting Charlie Kirk saying that black women were
not smart enough to be taken seriously in jobs, okay,
And because she quoted him, she was fired. When Matthew
Dad was on MSNBC and said this was a divisive figure,
he got fired for saying that. And so these are
not people going, oh haha, this guy is dead, although

(29:06):
there's some idiots on the internet saying that. Just is
their idiots on the internet saying everything. And it's not
like the left is behind this sort of wave of violence.
And so the question you have to ask is what
are they doing? Why are they spreading this particular narrative.
And the answer is to serve themselves politically, to shift

(29:27):
the blame off of them, but also to justify the
president taking special steps and give you know, Stephen Miller
apparently I was listening this morning to something and Steven
Miller apparently he's got a plan that he's working on
a sort of post Charlie Kirk murder plan to enable
them to gather more power, more rights, more prerogatives, to

(29:51):
go and target their enemies. And so you know, hear
are the words, but ask yourself, what are their motives?
What are they really trying to achieve?

Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think the other thing worth adding to that is
the factual background to violence that we should just point
out that before Charlie Kirk and his tragic death, the
most recent tragic deaths were of Melissa and Mark Hartman,
who were murdered because she was a democratic lawmaker and

(30:30):
their dog and their dog an absolutely chilling example of violence.
And it's been very clear that the suspect was fueled
by right wing, far right wing views, extremist views that
came from the right. And one of the things that
is not being encouraged here by jd Vance, by Stephen Miller,

(30:52):
is any honest appreciation of exactly what has been going
on in this country.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, and as we I think we said last week
on Friday, Hey David, this is also about mentally ill
young men with access to firearms. You think of Thomas
Matthew Crooks who tried to assassinate Donald Trump last July,
and who had a list of people that were his targets,
and one of them was Joe Biden. And it was
just that Trump happened to visit Butler, Pennsylvania, which was

(31:18):
near to where Thomas Matthew Crooks lived, that he was
the victim there.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
America's gun violence problem doesn't have to do with political violence, right,
It has to do with primarily young men who have
access to duns and who don't have access to mental
health care, and who have too much access to video
games and are too alienated from their society. And it

(31:48):
was not young men, it's older men. But men with
guns with mental problems or with grievances are our issue.
And again it suits me people to say, oh, we
we have a political violence problem in America and it's
on both sides, when in fact, that is not what

(32:09):
motivated the shooting attempt at at at at Trump. That's
not what motivated you know, it wasn't you know what
motivated this this last one, as far as we can tell.
And a lot of the cases that we have seen
have been more you know, sort of deranged people, but
a lot of them have also been right wing you know,

(32:30):
the guy who took automatic weapon and shot up the
CDC was motivated over you know, anti vax stuff. There
have been some anti Semitic attacks, and although the right
tries to say, well that's you know, the left is
the anti semi No, you know that there's a core

(32:54):
racist component to the far right that is well known.
And you know Trump is the one and who praised
Nazis marching in Charlottesville. And so, you know, it's hard
to sort this out because there's so many people peddling
so many narratives, and I think people who are listening
to this really need to slow down, try to find

(33:15):
the facts, not listen to cash Pattel, and try to
understand the motives of the people who are speaking well.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Trump has well. Trump is setting off for London this
week right for a state visit where there will be
a big, white tied dinner for him and King Charles
and Milania, our first lady, who seems to have emerged
from hiding recently. We saw her at the nine eleven memorial.

(33:44):
We'll be meeting Kate Middleton.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
It's going to be it's going to be amazing as
a spectacle. Donald Trump, of course met Blake Queen Elizabeth,
and everybody remembers that he actually managed to walk in
front of her, which is something you do not do
when the Queen is inspected her own troops, don't you
don't walk in front.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
He and King Charles are not soulmates.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
There's some of those demographic overlap that both boomers. After that,
I don't think they've got a huge amount in common.
But he is going to be absolutely in love with
the spectacle. He loves the spectacle. And if anybody's got
more gold than he does, it is of course the
British royal family who've got a gilded a selection of

(34:26):
gilded palaces to welcome him at.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And the gold couch for him to try gold coach
really really rubbish.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yes, and we will see Millennia going, you know, going
out with Kate and out with with Scouts, not with
Prince Andrew.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
Not.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
And we will not see Prince Andrew in any shape
or form. So he and Donald Trump, who of course
were photographed together and mar Lago in the year two
thousand with Jeffrey Epstein, don't get to reminisce about their friend.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
And I wonder if King Charles will raise the specter
of the concreting over of Jackie Kennedy's rose garden. Well,
because we know he has a huge gardener higez his home,
his personal home, and he's a massive supporter of obviously wildlife.
Clay was banging on about climate change before anybody cared

(35:21):
the environment. I should say the king.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Is such a dedicated gardener that he speaks to his
plants and.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
His trees more than he does to his gardener. Also
was a recent story that eleven out of twelve of
his gardeners had felt that he wasn't treating them as
well as perhaps he could have done.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
He is apparently a bad boss, so maybe he and
Donald Trump can bond over some aspects of that. Right.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
No word from the flowers on what they think about
what he talks about with them. David, I'm sorry if
this is all getting very English for you, but we
grew up understanding that King Charles as he is now
certainly Prince Charles then used to talk to plants.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
There was a document, you know, other thought that she
was English, and so we were. When I was little,
you know, I mean she was. She grew up in Manhattan,
but she aspired to being English and so the first
you know, when I was first trip overseas, we were
brought to Hampton Court and Windsor and so forth and

(36:20):
trained to believe that that was the height of civilization.
I've since learned better, but I don't want to get
into that here to.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
That's Scottish civilization, which is the height of civilization.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Will outnumber you if you do that. Madonna, your mother
and Madonna. I remember meeting Madonna. I actually went to
Madonna's house on the Upper East Side to interview her
for something, and she actually greeted me in an English accent,
and then she asked me in an English accent if
I would like some tea. It was very surreal.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
Is Donald Trump going to do this? What's going to happen?

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Do you think he'll walk in front of Prince Charles?

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Oh? I think King Charles, King Chiles almost certanly. He
is going to find some way to insert himself into this.
That is forcibly bad manners and nobody. Obviously, people were
too polite to mention the Queen did not see Donald
out of my WII. She just let them go on
with it.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
But don't you remember the last time President Biden went
for a visit with King Charles, who was actually then
Prince Charles. I'm sorry to get so confused. The Queen
was still around at that point. He was mocked for
what felt like leaning on Prince Charles because he was
it wasn't clear he was going to actually make it
up some steps, and so was he leaning on him.

(37:34):
Either way, You're not supposed to touch the royal other
than give let them give your hand a.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Squeeze, and we are in debt.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
To Joanna calls will be e for that advice.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Well, I was actually getting to say, given the bruises
that Donald Trump has had on his hands, which Carolyn Levitt,
his press secretary, says, are because he's been shaking so
many hands, he should actually get advice on how the
royals do it, because, David, just in case, you put
your hand out if you're a humble supplicant or in

(38:09):
the crowd, and they take it and they give it
a gentle squeeze, but you don't shake it vigorously, leaving
the president or the monarch with large, unsightly bruises which
then need to be covered up with makeup.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Is there a royal cure for cankles?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
I do want King Charles House cankles. It'll be very
interesting to measure their their ankles cankles and see if
there's any difference.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Wow, will it be interesting? Are these people really interesting?
I mean their point David, Yeah, you know, I mean
I'm sort of more of a product of the Mardy
Python upper class twit view of this whole thing.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
And we have these a lot of sympathy in here
for that.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah. And you've got a lot, you know, You've got
these ridiculous people. And I think one of the things
that we shouldn't lose sight of here with Donald Trump
going off to be ridiculous with these ridiculous people, is
the ridiculousness of it all, because you know, Donald Trump,
what he's trying to do right now is collect all
the possible perks of presidenting that he can't. You know,

(39:20):
I'm going to go and be greeted by these people,
and I'm going to be going to live in a
gilded room and people are going to treat me this way.
And I'm going to build a ballroom with nine hundred
people and it's good there. And the whole idea of
the ballroom is so then nine hundred people celebrate him
and what could be you know, where do you learn
how to treat ridiculous people ridiculously but in England, which

(39:43):
been royal family, which is a vestige of this kind
of idiocy that should long ago have disappeared, but of
course it hasn't because you know, it's entertaining.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
But I'd also see there's a fairly serious lesson and David,
you're absolutely right about the supermarket sweep of presidential short
skis that he's been amassing, but he's also trying to
mass power and guilding the Oval Office is funny and revealing.

(40:17):
But what we are definitely seeing is that there is
an opportunity presented by the death of Charlie Kirk that
Stephen Miller has outlined that he's drawing up a plan.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
It's all a.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Piece, and yet there is still a specter of Jeffrey
Epstein lingering. And one thinks of now the incredibly complex
logistics of this visit to the UK, which have been
wildly disrupted by the resignation of Peter Mandleson, the British
ambassador to Washington, who was in charge of this trip

(40:49):
and in fact was frantically trying to make sure that
all went well, and he's now out of his job
because of the birthday book, in which his four page
letter with photos to Jeffrey Epstein was laid bare for
everybody to see, and he said, Jeffrey, Wow, I'm expecting
a bump in logistics.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Well I think no, no, but I think you put
your finger on what is the real story here, which
is the Epstein subtext with Prince Andrew and with Mandelssohn
and with Trump and with the whole royal you know,
all the turmoil and the royal family around Prince Andrew's
uh experience there. So you know hopefully that you know,
that'll that will attract some of the attention here. Trump's

(41:33):
just going to want to break, you know, he just
he just wants a break from all the miserable stories
that he's had to deal with. And you know, of course,
who knows, maybe the actual British government will show up there.
But I do want to say one thing before you know,
we we've.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
You select your car before your.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Well that probably won't happen anytime to him, but I
do if they were our live stream, the price the
price of admits check to hear Hugh say Chachke with
a Scottish accent. Worth it.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's always worth it, David, I get that thrill every day.
Please go and collect your car. Thank you very much
for giving us perspective and wisdom. As always, I always
like to remind people you served in the Clinton administration.
You were the editor of Foreign Policy magazine, and you
bring such wisdom to everything you talk about. And there
were lots of wonderful comments about your perspective last week

(42:30):
on YouTube, which I'm sure you haven't read because you
are a modest man. But if you go and read them,
I think you will feel cheered.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
You're very kind. I'm not sure what this YouTube you
speak of it, but.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
All right, David, go and get your car, drive safely,
and we will see you.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Soon, see you soon.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
So I'm mindful of the fact that King Charles still
has cancer and that it's treatable, but it's not curable.
And of course he'll be meeting Don Trump, who's seventy nine,
with his cankles and his chronic venous interruption, which means
his own blood pressure is more challenged now as he
reaches eighty. Two old white guys hanging out together, both

(43:15):
with a lot of power.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Two old white guys, indeed both with well, certainly the
president of a lot of power. The King technically doesn't
have a lot of power thanks to hundreds of years
of history. But there will be a completely different perspective
on this because we will also see too much younger
and incredibly famous woman hanging out together. The royal visit,

(43:38):
the state visit will include Princess Kate and the First Lady, Millennia.
Trump going to go into an engagement as they are
called in British Royal parlongs with some young scouts and
that's going to be a split screen moment of the
old and the young gear and I think show people

(44:01):
it's kind of an interesting moment. Is it time for
some generational change?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Do we think that? Why do we think Camilla is
not meeting the First Lady?

Speaker 4 (44:09):
We don't exactly know that.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Of course, you will meet the First Lady at the
white tied dinner and will formally be there with the
King when they welcome them to Buckingham pat to Windsor Castle.
But that engagement of Millennia and Princess Kate, well, as
you say, not feature the Queen. We don't really know

(44:34):
much about the Queen's thoughts on Donald Trump or Millennia Trump.
She isn't a particularly discreet person, but this one she
has not clearly has decided not to address that in
any shape or form.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
And this is the second state visit for Donald Trump,
which is very unusual. Right, Normally the royal family auni
housts one head of state through there so sort of
state ship.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
And people thought the great thing the British Royal family
are amazing at is that they will change any rules
if it helps them. If you need to divorce your wife,
you set up your own church, Henry the eighth. If
you need to get rid of a problematic king, and
you invent the idea of abdication and send them off
to France with his American wife Edward the seventh, the seventh.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
And if you're.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Worried that there might not be that, if you're worried
about the perception that the male firstborn must be king,
then you can change the rules. So if Prince William
and Princess Kate had had a girl, she would actually
have been queen. As it happened they had boy. So
another rule seems to be torn up here. It used
to be you thought this one head of state from

(45:49):
another country, and this case President Trump only gets this
big official state visit welcome once from the monarch, but
rather handily. There have been two monarchs for Donald trum presidencies.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Oh so, of course he never saw the first. It's
a king, and I was I think I was remembering
the moment when kir Starmer produced with a great flourish,
when he was sitting to Donald Trump's right, I think
in the White House in the Oval Office a letter
from the King, and Donald Trump read it out loud
because he was clearly so proud to receive a letter's

(46:24):
from the king.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Totally starstruck by the royals. He says, it's all because
of his mother, that she all loved the royals. She
of course was Scottish, and I obviously followed the royal
family from three and a half thousand miles away.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
But yes, he is absolutely starstruck by the royals.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
They've got way more gold than he does. They've got
way more properties than he does, and they don't have
it anymore. But they used to have way more power
than he does. And I will say, they throw a
better parade, they throw an excellent parade, and he will
be taking notes I think back when he sees it in.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Action, well, something we'll look forward to.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
He was starstruck by the royal family. I was starstruck
by the Osmonds.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
They are royalty too, in their own way royalty, and
they're big.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
They are a big family. So there's an Osmond for everyone.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
There is an Osmond for everyone. If you have been
thank you for joining us. Feel free to leave us
a comment on YouTube, and much more excitingly, join the
Daily Beast community on YouTube, where you get all sorts
of extra content and Michael will beat Michael Wolfe that is.
And I'm sure we'll try and persuade David Rothkopf too
to answer some of your comments. He what else do

(47:35):
I need to say?

Speaker 3 (47:37):
If you join the membership scheme, then I will translate
for people who didn't understand me.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Okay, fair, Although now we can get those Apple headphones
that give simultaneous translation, which you know, my observers of
the Daily Beast podcast may want.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
To employs a that's a big threat to my unique chat,
to my unique appeal. I think I thought being in
not understood was why people were.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
So subscribe to the Dailybeast Dailybeast dot Com subscribe to
the podcast Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your podcast.
We'll be back tomorrow with another episode of Inside Trump's
Head with Michael Wolfe. He is still in London. I
wonder if he's trying to jostle himself a ticket to
the state dinner.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Is he there for a state visit himself?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Maybe he is, Maybe he is, And of course, as
our first lady who's emerged from hiding, would say, be
beast and thank you to our production

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Team Devin Roger, Reno, Anna von Ussen and our editor
Jesse Milward