Trump's State Visit Plagued By Epstein's Ghost

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
To Great Britain. Nobody has been following the Royal family's
role in this more closely than Tom Sykes. Tom, what
are your sources telling you about how this week has
gone for the Royal family?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi, Joanna, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
Yeah, it's been an extraordinary week for the Royals. When
I first started doing role reporting many years ago, someone
told me it's either feast or famine, and it's definitely
been feast the last two weeks. There's been so much
going on with Harry over last week and then this
week the state visit. Look, they're delighted. They think it

(00:39):
went really well. You know, there've been.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Plenty of criticisms. There's always loads of criticism of people.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Saying, oh, they shouldn't be doing this, they shouldn't be
hosting these people. And you know, I have to say
I think that it definitely was embarrassing the extent to
which they rolled out you know, the red carpet, the
gold carp whatever you want to call it carpet. You know,
fifteen hundred troops sort of entirely made up ceremony where

(01:09):
he was paraded in guilt carriages through windsor Great Park.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean, very interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Of course, the whole point of a procession, a ceremonial
procession normally, is that you are seen by the people.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
This was conducted.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Behind closed doors with the only people lad to watch
soldiers who you know, could presumably be relied on not
to shout and not to boo and hiss. But I mean, look, fundamentally,
it went really well. And I thought it was capped
actually by the incredible moment that banquet last night. I mean,
it was extraordinary. The images were amazing. Kate looked absolutely

(01:47):
fabulous in that Philip A Lepley gown, which I'm sure
you were quick to identify, Joanna. I thought Charles looked
pretty good. Actually, I thought he looked pretty spry. You know,
he's got cancer. He can look very tired times, he
can a bit sort of ragged. The appearance, the features
and all of that. I thought he looked pretty good,
pretty spri think he looked like he was enjoying himself.

(02:08):
I think they'll consider it, you know, a job well done,
and I think they'll be delighted. Marine once just lifted
off from checkers, and I think everybody be delighted that
the man's gone home.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
A huge exhalation of relief. I would think that it's
gone off as smoothly as it has. But can we
just talk about some of the photos that were in
your Royalist newsletter this week, which took on the quality
of seventeenth century paintings. I mean, the National Portrait Gallery
in Britain, which is one of Britain's best galleries, has

(02:41):
remarkable portraits of kings and monarchs and queen's over the years,
and I thought several of the photos you used should
have should immediately go into the National Portrait Gallery. They
were of that quality, and they showed a furious looking
Prince William, a furious looking Prince Andrew, and a worried

(03:03):
looking Kate and a slightly oblivious King Charles talking at
one point to I think it was the Archbishop of
or the Catholic Bishop of London, who looked very olagronous,
who looked like he was doing everything he could to
make sure that the royal family were having a good time,
which I guess he should do. But can you tell

(03:25):
us about the drama that was going on before Donald
Trump arrived?

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, so it was an extraordinary moment. So on Tuesday,
literally hours before Trump touched down. There was a funeral
for the Duchess of Kent, whose little named royal very
much liked and retreated from royal life, but was sort
of liked basically because of that not very controversial figure.

(03:53):
So ironic that her funeral has become a scene of
this controversy because Andrew showed up out. You know, I
don't know about you, but I thought that the idea
was to keep Andrew as far away from the royal
family as possible. But of course, and that is the idea,
and of course, but what he has figured out, it

(04:14):
seems to me, is that there are some events where
he can still insert himself into the family dynamic, get
proximity to the family, keep his you know, self importance alive.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
And that's exactly what he did.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
He showed up at this funeral on Friday with Fergie
and was given a seat directly behind William and Kate.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Which is very odd planning. I mean, who on earth
put him there? Because can we just can we just
remind people why Prince Andrew is persona non grata within
the Windsors now.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yep, So of course still comes back to Jeffrey Epstein.
Prince Andrew accused of having sex the Virginia youth Jeffrey Epstein,
trafficking victim who subsequently took her own life.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Andrews famously sorry, he.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Had a huge settlement. Didn't the Queen his mother pay
off a twelve million dollar settlement?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah, exactly exactly, And we were told at the time
this was to avoid any trial overshadowing the celebrations for
the platinum jubilie. And then, of course my friend of yours,
Andrew Loney's book came out and I think we saw
the real reason why they didn't want any of this
stuff tested in court. But so since then he has

(05:38):
been largely excluded from any formal royal role, but they've
reached this sill uncumform accommodation where they local he's not
part of the working role family, but he's still a
member of the blood family, so he can show up
at family events, and he somehow managed to get himself
invited to this funeral. I think the conspiracy theory is

(05:58):
that Charles's people permitted him to come and placed him
exactly in that place to deliver a recommand to William,
who's been very aggressively opposed to his father meeting Prince
Harry last week and thinks that Charles, in allowing Andrew

(06:21):
back into the fold, has been incredibly weak. Fears that
he's making the same mistake with Harry and has been
very weak, and William's friends has been very openly telling
me this. Lots of media have been told this. The
British media had been careful not to report it too much.
We're a bit more free being in the US to
be able to be able to cover it.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
So we're telling more of the story there.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
It is strangely starting to emerge in the UK media,
particularly after Tina.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Brown, another mutual friend of ours, wrote.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
About the hostility between Charles and William. So you're in
this look I met somebody, of course. She once said
to me. The thing you have to understand about the
royal family is that they all hate each other. They
were joking and they were exaggerating a lot, but they

(07:13):
are extremely extremely competitive family. Because everything plays out in
public when one is up, one is down. What's the
best thing to ever happen to William and Kate, Harry
and Meghan, you know, behaving appallingly because by reflection everything
they do looks fantastic. They look, you know, the fragrant
Princess Catherine, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So everything

(07:38):
has to be understood in terms of the family dynamics.
But because there's a whole extra family dynamic now, because
King Charles is dying before our eyes, and that is
creating a whole other dynamic because he very unwisely told
everybody that he had cancer. Well, actually it was a mistake.
They didn't really plan to see he had cancer. Initially,
they planned just to say he was having this in

(08:00):
a prostate procedure and to show how modern and transparent
it was. Then, of course, the council was discovered and
by that time too many people knew. So by the
time Charles has sort of pre announced his own death,
all of the power is drifting over to William.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
And that's why.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
William is really asserting himself and really saying, I don't
want you seeing Harry, I don't want you seeing Andrew,
I don't want you doing this. I'm the heir, I'm
you know. You can't leave me a settlement that I
can't live with. And the conspiracy theory is that Charles
placed Andrew, or more to the point, of Clive Alderton,
who is Charles's private secretary, placed Andrew there to deliver

(08:39):
a reprimanded check to William's ambition, which I find very
convincing actually, because nothing happens in royal choreography by accident.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
I mean that is the one thing to remember.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Somebody knew that Andrew was going to be in the
same photograph as William and Kate.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Somebody knew it as somebody okayed it.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, the photographs are absolute ex Jordaney. I'm hoping that
we're going to be able to show the photographs this
is alive, so I don't know if we are. But
Andrew's face is remarkable. I mean you can see on
this one and look at Kate's face here, because Kate
knows for William this is awful. And I have some
sympathy with the King here in terms of wanting to

(09:20):
make good as you get older with your certainly with
your younger son, and also with your brother. I mean
he's a he's someone he grew up with. No one
wants to fall out with their kids, so I can
understand and rather applaud King Charles's, you know, human instinct
to want to make good. Who knows how long he's got.

(09:41):
But that does actually seem rather a rather a sort
of warming thing to do, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I think it is.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
But I think from an institutional from an institutional point
of view, it makes the institutional look weak because people
are doing things and people are getting away with things,
and you know what, I think it's really interesting because
I think if you look back at the reign of
Queen Elizabeth, really when the discipline really started to slip
was when Philip died, and actually Philip ruled the family

(10:13):
with a rod of iron, and I tell you you
wouldn't have been able to get around with messing around,
you know, the way these guys are when Philip was
in control. And I did notice after Philip died, things
started to slip. People started to.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Do milk deals with the Chinese government. They started to
do this, They started to do that's none.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Of which they would have dared to do while Philip
was around to ball them out. And it just seems
to me that the discipline has slipped and slipped and slipped,
and now Charles just appears incredibly weak.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
That's the problem. And so everybody's doing what they want
and you've got to.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Remember, right, this is not like for Charles and his
direct heir to be very publicly at massive loggerheads about
central policy of the British family.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I do we acknowledge Andrew? And do we acknowledge Harry.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
It's a really big deal like this. You know, this
is not how you know sensible or any business. You know,
even if you have a disagreement behind closed seat, closed doors,
you don't display that pathology out and out in the public.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
All right, I've got one more. I've got one more
question before we bring in Hugh Dockley. But I wanted
you to know, what are people saying that Princess Kate,
who I thought looked sensational last year? What? What did
she What was she talking about to Donald Trump as
they sat next to each other at dinner. I just
can't imagine the conversation, maybe Andrews Scotland. What did they

(11:38):
talk about? Tom? Didn't you well.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Start attacking there?

Speaker 3 (11:41):
He just kept telling her how beautiful she was and
how radiant she was, and she looked, she looked her mildly, mildly,
she smiled broadly. I think as she was told these marvelous,
blandishments by the President of the United States. But yeah,
it's hard to imagine, but I do think, honestly, I
do think that they come across a lot of people,

(12:03):
and I think, you know, I think they're able to
keep the conversation going for forty five minutes with Donald Trump.
And of course, you know, lots of people, including Michael Wolfe,
will tell you actually Donald Trumps quite a good conversation.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
All right, But one final question there, I promise Hue,
I'm gonna I'm going to let you fire questions at Tom.
What was the Royal family's reaction to the film that
was projected on the side of Windsor Castle, which included
Prince Andrew, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, I think officially silence, but I think that, but
the reality is that it reinforces William's argument, which is
that Andrew needs to be cut off completely and he
never needs to be He needs to never be seen
with a member of the royal family ever again, as
long as he lives. And I just you know, there's

(12:57):
lots of theories of why Charles hasn't cut off, because
that Charles had a very very bad relationship with him
fifteen years ago. You know, they all fell out when
Charles did his big slimming down of the monarchy and
kicked out his kids, who Princess Eugenian, Princess Beatrice. So
I do find it slightly mystifying why Charles. This problem

(13:19):
was kind of solved by the late Queen Elizabeth, who
you know, took the decision to kick him out and
cut him off and wasn't invited to Christmas. You know,
when the queen was alive, he was not invited to
Christmas at Sandrigum, he didn't get to go to church.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
So I'm slightly.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Mystified of why Charles has allowed Andrew beck in. I
think it's partly a kind of natural Christian tendency within him,
And I mean that in the broadest sense, but also
in a specific sense. And I think also he was
perhaps wrongly under the impression that it was important for
him to look like a conciliator, to look like a convenor,

(13:56):
when I think actually, as a monarch, the most important
thing you actually need to look as strong and decisive,
and it all looks is very confused. Now, like if
you like people like me, I understand that Andrew's part
of the work family, but not part of the working family.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
But to the other fifty billion people.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Around the world on Facebook who are getting their news
or social media, it's not clear. And Andrew is a
prince as far as concerned, and he seems to have
had a relationship with the world's most famous pedophiles.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
So you know, the woman that introduced them or I
don't know if she did introduce them, but certainly the
woman that appeared in the very famous photo of him
with his arm around Virginia is in an American prison
serving twenty years for sex trafficking. Yeah, Gilene, Maxwell, Hugh.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
Well, Joanna, thank you for convening us. It's amazing. It's
like a royal gathering. Tormentism has thrown. We should get
you a thrown.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I would like her throw a version of Tom's throw.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
I want to say a big shout out to all
our members who are watching. I want to say a
big shout out Geen Tarlor, who's just joined as a
new member.

Speaker 5 (15:05):
Welcome, Jean.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes, thank you. Jane. You're getting comments on your screen.
I'm not getting them on mine. I haven't referred to them, but.

Speaker 4 (15:12):
That's because I'm a mere courtier and the idea is
that I should just be, you know, as a true royal,
you should just be you know, fed them if you're
I don't know with your caviat. What I think everybody's
wanting to talk about here is the Trump factor. What
did the family think of Trump? And you were pointing out,
Tom that when Kate was sitting beside Trump for forty

(15:36):
five minutes, he is an avid conversation He's a good
conversationalist and closed doors, but he's also somebody that just
says the same things and it's quite easy to practice.
I would imagine to be Kate Middleton in that scenario,
because you just watched Trump press conference and you know,
I was talking points.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
The big thing I think everybody was.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Observing is the physicality of this and Tom, you rightly said,
the King looked pretty good, but kind of weirdly, Trump
seemed diminished. And one of the big observations of the
week was that Prince William was beside Trump and we
got a sight of Trump who claims to be six
foot two besides someone who really is six foot three.

Speaker 5 (16:22):
How did that play?

Speaker 4 (16:23):
How does that play in the royal family that they
may not have made Trump look that good, or do
they care or do they think, well, he's on Marine
one and he's off home, and we you know, we
don't have to look at that again for a while.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, I think, of course, I think the thing to
remember is that this is really nothing to do with
the King or the Queen's personal wishes.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
You know, they're asked to do these things by the government.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
They agreed to and they show up, they put their
best forward and you know, in return, they get a
massive amount of money from the thing called called the
crown Es Set, you know, millions and millions of hounds,
and they get free food.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
So you know, what what's not to like but chicken chicken.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
But I think what I mean, I loved the late
Queen Elizabeth's comment about meeting Trump, which was in Craig Brown.
Craig Brown's a very funny British writer who wrote a
book called a Voyage around the Manchester. So after she died,
and she said that that she was very annoyed when
she she met Trump. She kept looking over her shoulder
like she was looking for some like he was looking

(17:31):
for somebody more interesting. And then she saw Milagnia and
she apparently turned for of course, well, she is very beautiful.
I suppose they must have some kind of arrangement, which is.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
That's one thing we should talk about is the arrangement
that the royals put on for Trump and Millennia. As
we understand it, they got separate suites. How does that work?

Speaker 5 (17:58):
Tom? How big is this castle?

Speaker 3 (18:02):
I mean, I don't think he would have raised an
eyebrow in Windscor. I mean, Charles and Camilla have their
own houses. The Queen and Prince Phillips lept in Jack
and Jill bedrooms with it shared bathroom. And I have
to say, if I was going to winds Castle getting
off a transatlantic fight, I would definitely ask my own
bedroom so that I could get a good night's sleep

(18:22):
before before being paraded through a cut bathed in gold
guilt and paraded through Windsor Great Park. But I think that,
you know, I think that overall, like I felt like
pretty embarrassed by the kind of, you know, everything being
laid on.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
I just thought it was kind of.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
I don't know, I just I feel like, you know,
it's fine, We've got to have a functional relationship right
with our you know, this really important ally, but do
we really have to just you know.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Spend all this time and money and just.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Sucking up to this guy, just literally greasing up to
this one man's ego. It just felt kind of it
felt kind of icky, didn't it. The whole thing felt
a bit icky, and it felt very transactional, and it
felt very like, I'll tell you what, We'll let you
pretend to be king for a day and will you
give us one percent of our tariffs?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
I mean, like, you know, and at the end of
the day, look it's real politics and fair enough.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
If they get one percent off the tariffs, that's obviously
worth whatever you could spend in you know, horses, who's
coopping around windsor castle. But it did just feel a
bit it felt a bit bros.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
I hated the way Trumps saying I'm the only person
who have been invited twice. I'm so special, nobody's ever
going to get this again. It was just like, oh
my god, it's just the whole world is just feeding
this man's delusion that he's amazing, and in fact he's
just the sort of hugster who's you know, I don't
want to get into the politics because you know, I'm

(19:51):
not I'm not like, I just know what I see
and to me, it just felt a bit ikey.

Speaker 4 (19:59):
We should out by the way, Trump at this banquet
suggested that he was the first American president to be
invited to Windsor and that is obviously wrong. Indeed, the
late Queen Elizabeth took Ronald Reagan horse riding around Windsor
Great Park, where Trump only got taken around in a carriage.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
So and I think she drove. Did she not pick
up Obama in rene driver herself? Then when he picked
up and drives them back up?

Speaker 4 (20:30):
And those are incredibly famous pictures. And one thing Trump
is that he watches a lot of television, and he
was definitely watching at the time. And we also met
mother who was alive during the Ronald Reagan thing, obsessed
by the Royal family because she, like me, was Scottish
and one of the you know, we've seen the hype.

(20:50):
How did the royals deal with this sort of hype man?
This uh, you know, all American presence. Because one of
the things that you were pointing out in one one
of your excellent commentaries on your sub stack and everybody
should subscribe to the Royalist just dooanna you said that.
I just want to double up on that. But One
of the things you pointed was that the Royals aren't

(21:11):
really into a lot of the you know, the show
and the displays part of the job, but behind caused
doors are not really into that.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
How do they react to somebody that really is into that.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, I think that they're incredibly you know, they are
ultimately political figures, and they're raised to be political. So
I think it's all about you know, everybody knew what
the job was for these two days or three days. Now,
I'm just seeing presidents en route stands tod Airport. He's
nearly gone, so we can nearly breathe a sigh of relief.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
But you know, the mission was very simple.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
The mission was make Trump feel as special as he
needs to feel, to favor us and to you know,
to be our friend and to give us a break
on these these trade deals and this.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
And I have to say that I think that they've
done a really good job. I mean Trump, I mean
he looked absolutely mad where he was smiling so much.
I mean, the man was wreathed in smiles with the
sort of you know, he just looked absolutely I mean,
he looked like he was in heaven. He looked like
he was in paradise.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, I think if you haven't experienced one of those
events too, I remember actually being at the state visit
for lec Vauenza, the Polish present, and I mean the
Queen driving him, or not driving the Queen, riding around
Windsor with him in the gold carriage was an extraordinary

(22:44):
sight to behold if you actually haven't seen it up close,
It's surprisingly moving and effective. It's a bit like a
sort of children's fairy tale coming to light, because you
can't believe horses still pull these carriages, the gold carriages
we know has recently been refurbished. I'm sure Donald Trump
is going to come back and demand his own gold carriage.

(23:06):
I mean, we see his fascination with the ballroom at
the White House. He's tearing down the East wing where
traditionally the first Lady would sit and do her work from,
to replace it with a ballroom. And now he's seen
what a state banquet really looks like when windsor Castle
pulls out all the stops. I mean, it was an

(23:28):
incredible table. I'm still fascinated by what an earth Tiffany
Trump and Tip Cook talked about. Perhaps she was asking
him for tips on her cell phone. I know I
would like his tips on my cellphone, all those shortcut things.
What on earth were they talking about?

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Tom one comment that people are making in the chat,
and thank you for everybody, to everybody who's going.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
So interesting the comments. We've got someone here who's saying
her grandfather was at school with King Charles at Gordon's.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
And one comment is did did King Charles give Trump
the golden carriage raid he wanted? And there are two
aspects to that, but one is can you just explain
how did this all come about?

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right?

Speaker 4 (24:09):
Does the King himself decide on these things or is
somebody what's what's the what's the what's the win in
which you end up in a golden carriage with King Charles?

Speaker 3 (24:21):
So state visits are in the gift of the British government,
the Foreign Office. They say, let's we need to get
this guy over, we need to impress him and increase
up to and then the King writes a private letter.
Now what happened this time was really really weird because
Trump being Trump, he opened the letter live on camera

(24:43):
in the White House. So the first time ever we
got to see the letter. And what's really interesting is
that the letter said, I'd love it when you're in
Scotland in the autumn if you'd come to have tea
with me and my wife and we could talk about
plans for a state visit. And Trump apparently, you know,

(25:03):
I think with half an hour in the King's health,
decided that he didn't want A didn't want to wait,
and B didn't want any big, the big Golden carriage
moment to be overshadowed by an informal kind of handshaker
Turnbury golf course or whatever. So we know a bit
more about the mechanics of this state visit than we
usually do. But yeah, fundamentally it's a government to government

(25:25):
thing disguised as a kind of personal thing.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
That wasn't but didn't I mean, I think that was
all masterminded, wasn't it. Certainly, according to Michael Wolfe, the
letter was masterminded from the King to Donald Trump, presented
with great flourish and ceremony by Keir Starmert while he
was in the Oval office at the White House. And
of course it was masterminded by the then British ambassador

(25:50):
Peter Mandelson, who's been forced the week before this famous
state visit. The only second the second state visit. Very
unusual for an American president or any head of state
to have two visits with the royal family. And of
course Peter Mandleson got fired over his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein,

(26:10):
So did that overshadow things at all?

Speaker 3 (26:14):
I've always felt the description of Peter Mandleson is one
of the great mysterious operators of the dark hearts, this
masterful genius. It's completely incompatible with the reality. I mean,
the man's been fired from he'll know better than me.
I mean, how many times.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Has he been fired?

Speaker 5 (26:29):
Now?

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Three times? Three times the first time looking alone from
someone investigating at the details, the second time for trying
to hustle a passport.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Take me the third time. I thought it was way
up to four or five.

Speaker 5 (26:46):
It feels like so many more to anybody who's British.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
But he's such a fascinating character, Peter Mandleson and clearly
very talented, very getting Labor elected Tony Blair's great ally
getting a new Labor elected first time in nineteen ninety seven.
But this has been a blow, surely for the visit,
certainly a blow.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Oh yeah, I mean it's been really, really awkward to
the visit, and he Trump was asked about it in
the in the press conference day Beth Bigbe from Skyes
I said to him, you know, talk about the elephant.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Peter Mandleson
and Trumps have no idea who you're talking about? Idea
you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Classic Trump denial.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
This is the most trumpy way to deny something. I
never knew him, I never met him. I can't remember him.
And there is no way, obviously, there is no rational
way that you cannot remember the person that you met
to talk about going to meet the king, and probably
somebody who said, well, we could probably sort you out
with a golden carriage while you were there.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
So I mean literally, there was a press conference they
did together where Peter Mandleson is standing next to Donald
Trump behind the resolute desk in the Oval office.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
And yeah, I mean, I don't know how many times
Trump has done this. It's more than a handful. It's
maybe dozens of times that he's denied knowing someone, and
the evidence is stark and obvious and it's kind of absurd.
But what it does speak to is the fear that
Epstein engages in Trump and talking about Epstein is difficult.

(28:21):
And Tom, we were talking when we started this live
and for people who are joining us, thank you for
joining us. We were talking about the projection onto the
biggest tower on Windsor Castle of video footage of literally
a small movie about Trump and Epstein, and it featured.

Speaker 5 (28:46):
The Daily Beasts.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Michael Wolfe, Who's Inside Trump's Head podcast, has detailed the
craziness of this royal visit brilliantly and urged people to
go back and listen and then subscribe tonight for more.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
But how, how on earth? What did you know?

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Presumably Trump wanted some explanation of how this happened and
how did how does everybody stop? How did people manage
not to say Epstein? How protected was Trump?

Speaker 2 (29:16):
In fact?

Speaker 5 (29:17):
Pro still with us? Tom? Tom is still with us.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
He is on his throne waiting to give us his
thoughts as we watch.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Tom, Are you still there? Tom got cut off. I
got a sort of loud bleep in my ear and
I wondered if that was Tom leaving?

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Have we been censored to It might have been. It's
the First Amendment problem.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, Tom, are you still there?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I am still here? I clip of the protection.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
That's very impressive.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
I'm not sure whether it is, but that's that's why
I'm looking.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
Slightly so just to talk about this a bit more.
This is Tom.

Speaker 4 (30:00):
I think I'm right in saying the biggest of all
the towers at Windsor, it's the one you can see
most from from the roads or you know, from Windsor itself.
And what's pretty amazing is that the whole setup for
this visit was done by somebody who had to resign
because he was a friend of Peter Mandelson. And the
person that's coming as a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. The

(30:22):
person that's coming is a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. And
how did how did they how did the British government
negotiate this? How did they manage to avoid Epstein coming up?

Speaker 1 (30:31):
More?

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Tom, Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to let you
guys take because there's something going wrong on my back end.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I'm just going to.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Well, Tom, don't worry. We managed. You managed to show
us the video again. And several people are pointing out
that we referred to Prince Charles when we met King Charles,
and my ownly, you're quite right, Brack bass. My own
defense is that he was in an apprenticeship for seventy
four years before he got the job, and we got
so used to calling him Prince Charles crying up there

(31:09):
that he'll be Prince Charles to me, that's not true.
I actually think he's been a rather effective king.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
And I think Tina Brown has who has been a
guest on the Daily Podcast brilliant writer family, I mean,
the inspirational founder of the Daily Beast of cause, but
particularly insightful writer in the royal family, and one who
is very willing or is you know, a very fair
minded critic of the royal family and has been willing,

(31:35):
as prom was saying earlier in the stream, to go further,
you know, in public than other people have about exposing
their inconsistencies and their difficulties. And in this case, the
relationship between Charles and William not been perfect. She is
giving King Charles, I almost said, Prince Charles. She is
giving King Charles high marks for his handling.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
Of being monarch.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
And I think that might be the big takeaway from this,
Tom right that.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
That Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I mean, I think, yeah, I think overall he's done
the job, I think competently, you know, but I think
that I think that the big mistake that he made, unfortunately,
was this mistake about saying that he had cancer, and
it's just weakened him hugely, because you know what it's like,

(32:22):
It's like if you're at the end of your second
term as president, it's like there's no point, you know
that if you've got a mortgage to pay and you've
got school fees to pay. You know, as a culture,
you start thinking about what's coming next.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
And it's a sort of lame duck they call it
here a lam but a lame duck monarchy in a way.
And of course you see William limbering up to take over.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yah.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
In terms of the physicality, I was surprised that Kate
Middleton was princess. Kate was so much taller than Millennia,
I think. I mean, we know Milania was a model.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
And Milania's height officially has been said to be five
or eleven, right, right, and saying Tom is five nine,
I believe I think so.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah, Well, she cowered over her when they met this morning,
both going off to meet the scouts and looking very old.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Well, it's it's un Ralph Lauren.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, they were both wearing matching Ralph Lauren. Well, Tom,
we should let you go. I think you're about to
go and interview Prince Andrew's biographer Andrew Loney, who was
on the Daily Beast podcast a couple of months ago
with shopping revelations about Prince Andrew's private life, which again

(33:39):
this has made clear that he shunned once more from
the royal family.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, thanks so much for having me. It's been brilliant.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Well, Tom will look forward to having you back soon.
And congratulations on the success of the Royalist Anybody interested
in the Royal family should sign up to your substack.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Thank you, I'll go, He tried tempt to elegantly press
the lead button for apologies.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, we've no idea if we'll be able to do it.
But thank you very much everybody for writing him with
your comments. I've only just started, they've only just started
pouring into my fee. But next time we do a
YouTube live, I will be much more on the ball.
And Hugh, you are on the ball from the beginning.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
Well, I just want to say a couple of things
to wrap up. This was an amazing drama, an amazing
spectacle playing out in public. And what's obvious was that
Trump was really into it.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And he's a performer, He's a brilliant performer.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
And he also the press conference that closed out this
visit was not with a member of the royal family.
It was with Keir Starmer, who is the British Prime Minister,
who is not, if we're honest, a big figure on
the world stage.

Speaker 5 (34:46):
He's not a big he's not a performer.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, he doesn't have riz. He doesn't have riz, whereas Trump,
like him or love him, like him or hate him,
does have performance energy.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, and Trump was actually very restrained at this press conference,
and he even, you know, kind of didn't. He mumbled questions,
he mumbled answers to get them back, to kill Starmer
and not. When he finally addressed Epstein and Mandelson, he said, well,
I don't know, I can't remember him.

Speaker 5 (35:13):
And that was it.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
And he did not There were no meltdowns on those tarades.
It was not quite what we're used to with Trump.
And that seems to be the royal effect here, that
there is something bigger, there's something bigger and better than
being president, and he saw it.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
I think it will be good for the ballroom at
the White House. I think it will have some tasteful
windsor Castle touches to it, and I think he'll add
even more gold to his office, the Oval office famously restrained.
I mean, I mean the difference between windsor Castle and
the grandiosity that we experienced over the last couple of days,

(35:48):
and the deliberate underplaying of the decor at the White House.
So it's supposed to be the People's House, a humble
place to go. I'm sure we're going to see it
jazzed up even more.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
We almost certainly is there going to be a suit
of armor? Are there going to be more swords? I
just want to say to everybody who's watching, apologies to
those of you who do not get my accent. I've
been working on it and I think I'm stuck with it.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Hu is from Scotland. For those of you who don't know, it's.

Speaker 5 (36:18):
Not following I'm originally from Scotland.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
Twelve years in New York has not diminished this and
for ten years in London as well. But this drama,
Joanna's that's kind of what we live for and what
are we going to see next from Trump is going
to be the big question. He's coming back, and he
is going to very different drama and that's going to
be the funeral of Charlie Kirk and a very different spectacle,

(36:43):
but one that is probably going to be even more
consequential than this visit.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
And he's been out of the country for the Cash
Pattel hearings, which have really been about Jeffrey Epstein and
of course Cash Pattel's role as head of the FBI.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
A lot of Jeffrey Epstein to discuss, a.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Lot of Jeffrey Epstein to discuss. Tom Sykes, Thank you
very much. We love your Raffia throne, and we will
be doing more YouTube lives, especially when I figured out
how to get the comments at the beginning. All Right,
we have a newsroom to run.

Speaker 5 (37:13):
Thank you for Thank you for having me Joanna, what
fun and f