June 1, 2023 • 49 mins
Sitdown comedians and cousins Evan Mastronardi and Chris Bojemski examine New York's volunteer community safety group, The Guardian Angels, and the life of its founder, Curtis Sliwa, picking up on the story when Sliwa battles the Gambino crime family, multiple assasination attempts, and decides to make the turn to politics at the latter stages of his career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Now John Gotty, I believe isjust going just like taking turns in and
out of prison at this point inthe early nineties. I think he gets
convicted in ninety four and really getsaway. Man, that man has gone
to prison. Fucking I can't fuckingI can't fucking keep track of it,
all right, He's He's a constantlyin present. So John Gotti Jr.
Is like the day to day operationsguy. And I'm sure that all this
(00:28):
business with the with drug desecration andGod forbid for a Catholic to actually give
money to the less fortunate in soupkitchen at a church instead of you know,
your hands. So they don't likethis. They also don't like that
Curtis is trying to you know,through the Guardian Angels. He also wants
(00:52):
to stop mob violence, so he'sbecoming an issue. So on April fourth,
nineteen ninety too, Curtis is beatennearly to death by three men with
baseball bats from the Gambino crime family. And you know, I mean,
(01:12):
I understand, I understand that thisis this is what while thinking, but
you know, the Buffy in Americato to from what I remember at least
started specifically to accomplish what Curtis saidout to do just for Italians, right,
I mean they make sure, right, but but again I mean,
(01:36):
you know, for for Yeah,anyway, it's just I know, I
know we're talking. I mean we'retalking nineties at this point, they had
in time to develop. It's beena while since the prohibition, which I'm
sure it's how they have most oftheir money and started. But you know,
again, just there not only that, there was a time when the
bosses had restrictions to what they woulddo. They wouldn't run women, and
(01:57):
they wouldn't run drugs, and thenfuck it, they started to do it.
So it's like because it was toolucrative. So I mean, you're
right, that's exactly why the ColtaNostro started. It's literally called this thing
of ours. It's supposed to bea protective system for the Italian immigrants.
(02:17):
But then what happened was they startedpraying on their own community and they would
pay. They would the community wouldhave to pay them for protection. And
once they realized they could get awaywith that, then it just took off.
Because now people get used to youproviding a service and if you don't
(02:38):
pay us, we're going to ruinyour business. You're gonna go out of
you know, you're gonna go broke. So ever since then, ever since
they started literally praying on the communitythat they were trying to protect their own
community, it has become now whatsome gangs are. It's it's no longer
really about protecting those around you ina sense of purpose. Although I'm sure
(03:00):
some of them feel like they havea fucking sense of purpose after they take
old murder um. But it's justnot for the same reasons. It's more
for us, it's more for apersonal reason, it's more for monetary gain,
it's more for clout. So Curtisgets beaten nearly to death, he
goes to Bellevue Hospital. He's don'tlet us find out about this now.
(03:30):
I gotta say, Curtis has alreadydone some badass ship. But when Curtis,
Curtis survives, and what do youThere's no way they expected this guy.
There's no way they expected this guy. That was what well, they
said it was technically a warning,but it was like a warning that you
could die. You could not ifyou live, it's a warning if you're
(03:50):
dead, it's the ultimate warning.Yeah, yeah, so what do you
think he does after getting released.First of all, he gets he gets
out of there like in a fewdays. It's like, and I'm being
in a comma. M I'm assuminghe throttles the first toality finds. No,
(04:19):
no, no, no, I'mI'm sure. I'm sure he finds
whoever. Curtis doesn't even do that. This is what Curtis does. This
is I think this is the mostbad. They're all badass things. Well,
there's an ultimate badass thing, butthis is second. If you thought
that the drug the ropping the drugdealers thing and helping the community was that's
(04:43):
third. That was that was numberone. Second, he gets out of
Bellevue that I believe that fucking day, he does his radio show and says,
you may have I'm going to tellyou a murder that you didn't know.
Gott he did un fucking live air. Right after he gets out of
(05:06):
the hospital. He's saying, oh, no, no, no, no,
you thought you were going to silenceme. You motivated. I am
the warning, all right, Sohe he apparently now he says this exclamation
(05:29):
boy, yes he is. That'sa perfect right funny. So so he
he he gets sources. Now youknow he wasn't there, but he knows
enough people who are apparently at aclub where John Gotti Junior killed someone in
front of mad fucking people, likejust in the middle of the club because
he felt he's untouchable in front ofmad people. There were so many witnesses,
(05:53):
and there was enough witnesses that ultimatelycame forward to enough people that Curtis
knew that he felt he reached acritical mass to say this guy killed this
John Guy Junior killed this guy infront of all these pep fucking They say
he stabbed in fucking forty six times. It was insane and he I mean,
that's that is how they found thebody. But he's saying that he
did it, you know, apparentlywas over some drug money dispute of some
(06:15):
kind, and but he wasn't.But because enough people didn't want to go
public with it, the authorities weren'tdoing anything. So Curtis he's now made
it. Now that's a public asyou can get that. Yeah, the
day he gets released, he goeson his morning show and says this.
(06:38):
So he so he's he's OK.When dividing hours, when when can my
wife be here with a car okay, sixty phenomenal. I have a show
at seven Surrey. I need todo honey. I know, I know,
I've been away for a few days, and and one of my eyes
is still rolling back my head doinga favor. Just take me to take
me in the station fast. Iwant to go ten ten wins, real
(07:00):
fast. So so this is howmuch of the mob had infiltrated our institutions.
Apparently, so this is like somesocial club that the Gottis ran.
That where this happened. I thinkit was after Curtis's um broadcast that the
(07:20):
Queen's district attorney calls yeah, okay, okay. After curtis Is broadcast,
the Queen's sister attorney calls John Gotti, I think the the number one Gotti.
And he says, pop, PapaGotti. And he says and and
he says, listen, uh,we got a problem. And there work
(07:45):
like the fact that the Queen's districtattorney is calling the father of the guy
in the first place is fucking insane. That but that shows you already how
much power they had, how muchpower the mob had, that the district
attorneys calling him and saying, look, we got a problem. Man,
you gotta I'll give you a fewdays to take care of this. Do
(08:05):
what you have to do. Andhe's good. He says, don't worry,
I'll take care of it. Sookay, okay. So now the
guy that Curtis got the initial informationfrom that that like tipped him enough to
say, okay, I've heard enoughnow that I believe I could say this
(08:26):
after the district attorney because that guywas going to testify, because that guy
was a witness. And yes,yeah, he's he They killed him within
days of that call. He's he's. This is how blatant and how much
like confidence the mob had. Youcan't touch me. They killed him then
(08:50):
hung him. But the way hewas hung it was very it was very
obvious that like the rope was loose, his feet on the ground, basically
to say, you can tell hedidn't die this way. We just wanted
to present him this way to you. Yeah, that's how fucking That's how
the mob was under the Gambinos inthe early nineties. So they left that
(09:13):
in South Osn Park, which isclose to Howard Beach and as we know,
which was the Gambino Gotti's strong guy'sstronghold. All right, But now
the godis no. They have anotherproblem the person who got this whole tide
going in the first place, andwho clearly is not scared of them,
(09:35):
And that's our main man, Curtis. So one day Curtis feels like he
wakes up late for his radio show. He's getting ready. He runs out,
thinks he's gonna be late. Heimmediately sees a cab roll up.
The second he was going to thinkof hail and get it immediately rolls up.
(09:56):
He gets in. He even knowsthe cab driver, because back then
there were enough cab drivers that youknow, and the way this worked,
like you, you ended up knowingeach other after a certain point. Yea.
So he knew the guy there talkingand he tells him, all right,
take me here. But the cabdriver, right when he's about to
(10:16):
make a certain turn, takes thewrong turn, and he says, hey,
you took the wrong turn. Buthe keeps driving and he's driving fast
in the wrong direction. And soonafter that a man comes from under the
passenger seat. So a man washiding under like between the under the passenger
(10:41):
a glove box and the bottom ofthe seat. He was hiding there comes
up and shoots Curtis. He said, the first shot he didn't even feel.
Then he tries to get out.But I this part I don't exactly
get. I think that they didsomething. Either did something with the handle
(11:03):
and they took the handle out andthey didn't and he didn't notice that the
inner handle was out. So hesaid, they basically wanted me to be
in a fucking rolling coffin. Theywanted it to be so I couldn't get
out of the car. Yeah,so he gets shot. I think he
first gets shot in like the shoulder. Then he gets shot in the stomach.
(11:24):
When he realizes he can't get out, he's shot the abdomen, and
then he I don't exactly know howhe pulled this off, but as the
guy's gonna shoot him again, sohe's already got two bullets in him.
Now he goes to the window andin succession he gets shot in the back
(11:48):
and he breaks through the window andhe's on the street and then the mob
thinks that's enough, he's dead andthey drive off. You think rawish,
No, definitely not, no,are you kidding meat? No? He
(12:09):
said, I was laid out onthe asphalt the avenue be in Sixth Street
after being shot multiple times at thatcab, and the plan was to let
him. This was the plan.Apparently they were gonna let him, so
someone was gonna pick him up fromthat area. They were gonna let him
bleed out and then chemically incinerate himso there would be no evidence left.
(12:37):
I mean, that's that's that's alot of work. They no one's gonna
no one's gonna go get him.People are just gonna pas bleeding body on
the street and not I don't dosomething about it. I don't know that
part of the plan didn't work outall right, because Curtis was shipped to
Bellevue and I don't understand the momwas putting together these these fucking like gold
(13:01):
gold ver machines of assassining this guy. Like Okay, he's gonna wake up
one day on that day, wehave a can nearby. The cab has
to have a guy in the seat. He's got at he knows we got
another cab guy. So the capthey did they convince I mean, it's
right in the caddy's family or didthey or we don't know that that part
(13:26):
I don't know, but they musthave. Uh they must have done because
to convince I mean, look,I don't I've never even I've never ever
met Curtis, and you would haveto do something the extreme, get me
to do something bad to Curtis.Yeah, uh no no. But the
mob, the mob fears nobody.They they felt this guy is a thorn
(13:48):
in our side. Uh. He'sshowing he's not scared of us, and
that's what the mob hates the most. They want fear, and Curtis is
saying, you're not gonna get itfrom me. I'll tell you what.
Though they're terrified at this guy,they would I don't think they would go
through all this if they weren't very, very scared. He's a he's a
problem to them. And remember hecan he can get up on a radio
(14:09):
and be like, yeah, thisguy's son. He's a fucking dick also,
and he should probably be in prison. And and now he's got I
mean, I mean, think aboutthat. In an instant, this guy
just turned two thirds of New YorkCity against someone who literally stayed the guy
upward the forty times in a cluband walked away from it. So suddenly
everybody in New York is like,h yeah, yeah, them right,
(14:37):
and then Curtis. This has beenCurtis's life. Curtis's life has been about
using the public, but like innot using using, but the public working
with him has been his life.He's charactic through his actions. So he's
saying, you know what, youmay have the mob, but I got
the city. He's like, II got I have my own backup.
(15:03):
First of all, he has theGuardian Angels and there they don't carry guns.
They're in the thousands upon thousands now, so you know, but he
still has problems. I mean eventhough he has some support. Yeah,
always super identifiable by his funny littlered hat. Stay where it's it's super
easy to pick him out. Imean we could be hiding the crowd or
(15:24):
whatever. Yeah, yeah, whyyou see like four guys was like back
everything suits, not doing nothing,just looking for I'll going into the social
club. It's always a social clubclub, nothing weird going on, you.
So, so Curtis is on theoperating table and he finds out the
(15:48):
surgeons from Carnarci and that's how heknows he'll be okay. It's like,
how you Curtis is from Canarci Brooklyn. He's like, I'll be all right,
then what hap this fucking conversation whilehe's sitting there having ship picked out
of him before I guess before hegoes under. He's conscious enough and he's
talking to him. Where the guy'stalking to him, Curtis is conscious?
(16:08):
Star? It are you Tony's cousin? Oh no, shit, Hey,
I think I was in high schoolwith your sister. I didn't finish high
school. I was busy. Iwas busy running McDonald that had fucking race
riots outside and gangs. Hey,I hope I'm still all right? All
(16:29):
right, this guy's terrifying. Souh all told um for some Well,
actually, let me get to someof the final stats about the Guardian Angels
and everything. Not final because technicallystill in operation. So now in two
(16:51):
thousand, uh, John Aldo,who is work was part of the Gambino
crime family and part of the Idon't believe he was in the car,
but he was one of the architectsof the hit on Sliwallah. Plea bargained
two. I can't I can't believethis. I can't I can't believe.
(17:15):
I can't believe that Plea bargain andthis goes together, he admitted to fifteen
fifteen murders. Now, I don'tknow. He must have had something else
on this guy. He must say. He must have gave up the whole
game. I think he probably broughtthem down single handedly. I know that.
God he soon after uh, becauseGod, he's been in prison.
But his big sentence came in thetwo thousands, but he was in prison
(17:40):
in the nineties, So I don'tI don't know. He must have told
it. He must have told allthe secrets or it was or it was
that he ar. I mean,you still are charged for this, and
you should be. He was thearchitect of fifteen murders, and he didn't
actually carry them out. If he'shigh enough, high in high, up
enough in the mob, that iscommon that you you're not actually the one
(18:03):
who carries them out, but youare the one who orders the hit.
So he either carried out some ofthese ordered to hit either way. Fifteen
times he was involved. That's afucking lot, and injuring any and trained
thirty set Okay, so then hetrained thirty seven people to I guess do
the hits. This is fucking insane. Yes, what you're gonna do is
you're gonna curw up in a realtight ball, see and when when you
(18:26):
got that? Now, next,but you needed a cab driver and then
also a car, and also makesure you find a car with like a
real fat glove box to hide yourbig ass after you're eating a lot of
meat balls. Okay, now thisis the hard part. You gotta be
wait for. You gotta do somethingto make sure he's late for you.
(18:49):
Gotta fucking break a pipe in hishouse, all right, something something you
gotta do to delay him, gethim off his get him off his game,
all right, castellany bring those kneesclose to your chain. You're really
not in a tight enough like Ineed you to think passenger seat footwell right
now, all right, it's notalways gonna fucking catillact. We have condas.
(19:11):
Listen. If you don't do it, we're gonna get one of those
circule motherfuckers to do it, andthey'll do it for half your price.
Okay, don't make me. Don'tlet me go get a French guy,
please, this is embarrassing, offsitors. Don't make me fucking outsourced from Italians?
All right. So so now,all right, so that that was
the ultimate badass thing, all right, he I mean he survived. He
(19:36):
survived the ultimate hit. He gotout of a car by sheer force.
God. I mean, you canbreak a window, but to break a
window while you're being fired at,not have a tool, and just with
the way he just it actually makessense that his momentum plus the momentum of
the fucking gun and bullet compelled throughthe window. Anyway. So but this
(20:03):
is the right this guy what thisguy flips right, he's the fifteen murders
guy. Okay, so him JohnAldo? All right, So enter Haraldo
Rivera again that's crazy. Yeah,so so he is, Uh, Haralda
(20:32):
Rivera has a show. And Ibelieve Alito has a book. Of course,
they always have a fucking book,because because once listen, once that
Levy breaks fucking at that point,I'm telling all I'm making Yeah, so
I think he has a book.He's promoting something, all right, and
you can guess what's gonna happen next. So remember Alito's the guy who orchestrated
(20:56):
He wasn't in the car, buthe did orchestrate it. Harah though,
Nope, you know Haraldo knows Curtis. He's been out the show before.
While in the middle of the showCurtis Watson and six next sitting next to
Sean and John tries to keep it. John tries to keep it together.
(21:19):
Um and uh, Harald is like, so hey, do I get a
chapter fellas? Um? What doyou what do you think? How do
you think that? You know?Curtis is feeling right now sitting next to
the name He really says. Hereally says this, stating next to the
(21:40):
man who planned his his hit,and he's like, well, you know
I would feel bad too if itwas me. I understand being in his
shoes that, you know, youwouldn't really feel too good about. It's
like some run of the round,run around and then and then later he's
like time for the first time andthen later what does he say? He's
(22:06):
like, well, you know that'sbehind me now now I'm with people,
good people like you and Curtis,And uh, I think that's what flipped
Curtis like, because like they Curtis, at first, I was just gonna
try to keep a cob. Buthe's like, oh, you trying to
be my friend now, because Ithink that's what did it. Because then
Carldo turns to him and he says, all right, Soti Curtis, how
do you feel? He says,well, I get that he flipped after
(22:29):
the fourth fucking time going to court, So that was the first opening.
That was the first opening. Andthen he says, am I ever gonna
shake his hand? Mind you?He's like, right fucking here, you
could shake his head. You shouldn't. I understand why, But it's just
a basic It's not saying it faraway, like Curtis is saying, if
you thought I was gonna shake yourhand, I'm not shaking your fucking hand.
(22:51):
So he's saying, am I gonnashake his hand? No? If
he slipped in the bathroom and hithis head and you know, died,
what I sleepover it? Something likethat? He says, No, I
wouldn't what I what I think?Would? I think God did a favor?
Yeah? Problem? And that's that'show that interview went. And like,
(23:11):
what do you expect? That isthe cell of shit in that studio
the second that guy walks in.UM so so all told um honestly,
(23:33):
I just want to roll it backa little bit. I think I think
that might be the most badass thingI know. I know, Okay,
yeah he got shot and lived.Yeah, but then he just walks up
to the guy who organized it anddidn't kill him. I think the self
control he's in this, what ishe who's gonna protect him? A fucking
(23:55):
reporter? Yeah yeah, you thinkthat. You think the crew standing around
the studio's gonna do anything about itagainst the guy who has survived being shot
three times and beaten in the streets. So Jesus Christ. Yeah, No.
Mentally, I mean, I mean, i'd say one is the most
(24:15):
physically badass, and I mean italso takes mental fortitude to escape as he
did. But I'd say mental fortitudein that different. This is like this,
you're digesting this. This isn't justlike moment an instinct. This is
you have, like you said,you have a moment like you have to
not you have to not kill thatperson that whole time. Yeah, I'm
(24:37):
gonna like a parents, But thisin today's world, this is this would
get posted and taken down on TikTokwithin like this guy's got it murdered on
camera, for sure. No one, no one has this level of self
contrawer right now. You have tohave that thought run through your head during
the entire interview and hold it eachfucking exactly who can do that? Oh
(25:07):
my god, so and I'm sorry, and he's this guy. Curtis still
has access to thousands of people whowouldn't sting this guy he just sitting there
having betrayed. He could he couldcall the hit from the mob. The
(25:33):
mob could say we have a commonenemy. He could do he could get
a hit from like around the world. Yeah, Curtis shown up with it.
He could put out the call rightthen. He could have been like,
you know what, I know,I got some of you, my
boy, just come with me today. Let's just all go open the studio
together, all what three dozen ofus. Let's just give John ah hug
(26:00):
let's let's But he still was like, fuck it, I'll just go alone
and sit there with like the snickervein in my forehead, just like whites
getting out like it is. It'staking everything to I push you down in
the bathtub myself, you stupid batalion. Fuck. Oh my god. Uh
(26:23):
yeah. So all told and thisis terrible. But when you think about
the quantity of Guardian Angels, therewas over one hundred forty thousand Guardian Angels
at least around around the world,six at least in at least in the
US, so that's around the way. I don't know if the statistics include
(26:45):
globally, but in the US sixdied, and that's terrible. That's also
a low percent. That's six thatmany. Six died and and over thirty
were injured. That's badass. Imean. And to be honest, we
(27:07):
know at least one of those withoutthe hand of the police, and it's
possible others were too, right,I mean, yeah, yeah, no,
sorry, that's just the fact thatisn't one hundred percent at the hands
of people doing shady ship that theywere trying to prevent is insane. Right.
(27:32):
The fact that one of that,even one of them was you like,
gunned down by police, since Imean, and that and that's only
six whole dared, that is nuts, um Curtis. Ultimately, he continued
his radio show. He continued onNew York One. Uh. He ultimately
(27:52):
did make a run for mayor.He knew he couldn't get the Democrat nominee,
so he did run as a Republican. Wow, I want to want
to I want to hear a goodreason why he couldn't get anyone's nation getting
everything that we've heard, he thisis the thing that is confusing about me
(28:14):
about Curtis at this time of hislife, and I mean, like the
past few years, he seems tosuddenly side with the police, and I
don't understand it. The police hasbeen the thorn in his side most of
his life, the thorn in theside of those who wanted to join the
Guardian Angels. Like if the policehad their way, he probably wouldn't have
(28:37):
half the Guardian Angels because they wouldhave been locked up for some bullshit,
or they would have been on thestreet because they had no alternative. So
I don't I don't understand. Now, I do understand when he ended up
running against Adams because this is thething. He knew he couldn't win the
Democrat primary. It was too crowded. This is my political thoughts. He
knew he couldn't win the Democrat primeMary because it was too crowded. He
(29:02):
knew that Adams was most likely towin after Stringer went down, so he
said, Okay, it's going tobe one guy with police background versus me.
If I was him, I wouldhave said, I am the community
policing person. I am the alternativeto police person. I know exactly what
(29:23):
the police should be doing what somany people in that have been part of
the Black Lives Matter movement. Whenthey're saying defund the police, they actually
mean to have. It's not aboutno public safety, that's the misnomer.
It's reallocate resources, yes to education, yes to housing, but also to
(29:45):
have a community safety that is independentof the police, that doesn't involve the
police, much like the first realone New York ever had called the Guardian
Angels. If I was courtesily,I would have ran with that, and
ran against Adams with that and said, no, we've done it your way
too long. We need us tobe the front line. We did it
(30:08):
before, we had crying down.I was the architect of it, and
I will and if I could doit then with note without mayoral powers,
imagine what I could do in thatoffice. And I would again to reiterate,
only six of them died. Butit's the last time, only six
six and in the year Jesus Christ, I mean, I ah, so
(30:37):
I don't get it. I also, let's let's be honest. Older Italian
and older Polish bad also get olderand crankier. And this also is the
way that many of them go.I hope though the first springs no kind
of It's confusing to me the firstof that springs to find their career is
just that maybe as a maybe ashe gets older, he has more of
(31:00):
an opportunity to fund on what hewas doing and how fucking crazy it was
that he got away with so muchincling being shot by the mob, that
maybe he's begun to feel like that'sactually kind of nuts for sixteen year old
to embark on. I really justwant the police to do their fucking jobs
so that that doesn't happen. AndI think that I can come out as
support for the police right because theyare the authority that ought to be handling
(31:22):
it. Yeah, but he didn'ttalk about the police being better. He
basically said, you know, heplayed off the defundse and no refund We
got to give them more money,and you know, he just he wanted
to be probably got he got involvedwith the with the the BLM movement in
this in this capacity, I mean, not involved with it, but fighting
(31:45):
against it. He well, Iwould say outwardly he was, I mean
by proxy, because he was.He didn't I wouldn't say he made a
huge amount of time against the BLMmovement himself. It was typically about defund
the police. He specifically was againstthat part of it. Certainly, he
(32:06):
certainly didn't speak to the reason why. And he wanted to get the police
unions backing, and he did getsome of it. The police was like
split and to me again, it'slike, this is the union that never
gave you credit, that wanted tocripple you, that arrested you. It's
just right. I still don't getwhy that told them all about you and
(32:28):
that nearly got the cripple and dead. Sure, I will, I will,
I'm I mean, I'm sure theydid. I'm sure that the police
and right and the DA and thepolice are together. Yeah yeah, yeah,
the d A certainly certainly so.So I don't I don't get it.
(32:49):
I don't get if he did itentirely out of strategy. But even
if it wasn't entirely out of strategy, it doesn't make sense to me.
And it's it's a bit disappointing thatthat is, at least for now the
last chapter of his career he did. Of course, he didn't win Eric
Adams one. I honestly don't thinkthat Sleewa would have been a worse mayor
than Adams. Adams is basically Republican. He's a Republican New Yorker that he
(33:14):
won as a Democrat. But he'sbasically as Republican as Sleewa is. If
Sleewao did, if Sleewa implemented afraction of the Guardian Angels in policing now,
he would be ten times more liberalthan Adams, who doesn't want to
do any of that, just wantsmore of the same. So, I
mean, it's confusing to me,But I gotta be honest with you.
(33:39):
As much as I have very muchthe same for nearly every Republican, I
have to say that if I'm justlooking at the totality of this man's life,
I can't deny all that he did. I can't deny what he stood
for, even if ultimately he's endingup in a place I don't agree with
and that I think is detrimental tocertain causes. Whether he realizes or not,
(34:02):
he was one of the most antipolice forces in New York City's history
from a like visual, tangible level. He may not have had the policy
mind for it. He may nothave been a part of I mean,
he was a part of a movement, a public safety movement. He may
not have had certain language, butwhen it comes to guys actually doing an
(34:25):
alternative, he did it. Yeah, I mean he did it. He's
the one who did it. Heand of course credit to everyone else,
but he started it, and atleast at the time, he understood a
lot of the reasons why the policeweren't effective. I don't know what happened
when he ran from air, butwhile he was most aft in the Guardian
Angels, he did understand that theywere harassing people who shouldn't be harassed.
(34:47):
He did understand that they were stereotypingblacks and Latinos and acting on those stereotypes.
He said it. He said it, even even now he says that.
So it's a weird dichotomy. ButI'm just gonna I can I'm gonna
hold both. I'm not gonna givehim a pass because I think it disappoints
me and I disagree with what hestands for now. But I'm also not
(35:12):
going to negate the real work hedid that is a part of us liberating
from the police. That work stillmatters. Yeah, and he's a tough
son of a bitch. I mean, I mean you can't you I don't
care what listen, you cannot denythis man is like any political party.
(35:35):
Okay, that's that's a tough motherfuckerto get through all he went through.
And like you said, to neverhe never, he never shot anybody.
I don't even know if he hadpicked up a gun in his life,
right, I'm I'm very very surprisedthat no story as a question of his
character, but it's just he hadan ample reason to walk around, you
(36:01):
know, armed to the fucking teeth, this guy, especially by the time
we don't think we didn't get intothe mob pop but yeah, sure,
definitely by that, I mean,it's almost a little bit frankly, it's
almost a little bit crazy that hewasn't you know, walking around are and
by the time he was beaten upby the by the mob or what I
(36:21):
mean, and uh and and uh, yeah, I mean, it's it's
incredible that he that he never backeddown from his position, not that I
mean, like you said, hemay not. He incorporated a lot of
liberal principles. He may not usethose terms, but he fought for gay
people when no one else did,literally fought for them. He incorporated people
(36:45):
who had records and gave them anotherchance. He took people off the street
and believed in them and believed thatthey could protect their own communities. He
believed that there was alternatives to police. He believed in non lethal conflict resolution.
He incorporated women in this role andsaid, just through the same if
you could do the same thing themen do, you're as good as anybody.
(37:07):
He even had a woman collided withhim, his own partner. I
mean, he he what he gotdone, because when you think about it,
the run for mayor, I hehe is still a figurehead in the
past few years. Yes, Idon't believe he's used his platform in ways
that I agree with. But ifyou're looking for his real impact, the
(37:30):
real impact I believe was on theright side of history. Yeah. So
I'm curious. We're at the endnow I should Yeah, go ahead,
it's this is the saga. Thesaga has concluded, well Otter, Otter
has concluded my saga. So,I mean I'm curious because I mean we're
(37:55):
talking about more than one hundred thousandmembers right right for him to be,
for him to be, but forhim to be a figurehead of all those
people, you think that I'm I'dbe surprised if the culture of Guardiananiels was
(38:16):
one that that held fast perfectly overall the time that they operated it.
I mean, I assume they're stillout there a little bit, but it
sounds like they're prime times die downa little bit, right, Yeah,
it's after the nineties. It's sortof deteriorated. I think, so do
we was the last kind of standI don't. I'm not saying that he
got tired of it. I mean, if anyone has a right, yeah,
(38:43):
it's it. But I'm saying,like, I don't know all the
reasons, but look after Yeah,it's just interesting to me that it's between
why is that right? Where?Why his direct involvement with it seems to
drive it. It almost seems likehis presence is what keeps everybody on the
(39:06):
straight and narrow with the Guardian Angelguidelines a little bit here, right,
So, like I'm looking at justI'm looking at the Wikipedia page for controversies,
and there's not a lot going onhere. And I think that I'm
I'm a little surprised by that becausefor a gang that we could call for,
all right, maybe not a gain, but a public public safety movement
(39:29):
that safety group that prides itself onbeing able to take a couple of hits
and then dips them out way harderand also like, I don't know,
in full rate, a fucking druggingoperation and get away, get away with
one dime right, let me theyfucking robbed, robbed. They're like,
(39:51):
we're not doings, We're not doingany of this, Larry Larry ra shit.
We are breaking the bucket, knockingknuckle heads down, taking your ship
it, given it to the reverend, to the priest, and then get
the fuck out It's brothers at thepoint. Yeah, I mean, I'm
I guess, I guess I'm justsurprised. I guess I'm just surprised that
(40:13):
the list of that went wrong isn'tlonger, Like, do we have evidence
of them royally fucking things up andbeating people up senselessly for no reason?
Did that have happened here? I'mlooking, I'm looking for way, I'm
looking for ways to kind of defeatthe Because we painted a very perfect picture
(40:34):
of the Guardian Angel's end of untilthe very end of I wouldn't say it
was perfect because of the gets theBernard Gates thing. I think that was
wrong I think obviously, I thinkwhere Curtis ultimately fell on the political spectrum
and what he supported was wrong.But to be honest with you, they
didn't have a large percent that didanything noteworthy like that. They just didn't.
(40:57):
I'm that' he said himself. Ofcourse I had people who broke the
rules and I had to throw out, but it just it just was not
I mean, you think about theamount of the NYPD and that person even
by their own standards, their ownreports, their own people who get written
up like it's incredible that the becauseI think the Guardian Angels really felt like
(41:20):
they were. There was so muchpride I think at that time to be
a part of that and at atime where there was just hopelessness. There
was hopelessness on your block. Ifyou weren't harassed by the cops, you
were harassed by your own you know, the people in the community who also
felt no hope. Um, youdidn't have many options. The drug drugs
(41:42):
were so it's like, I thinkmy headset went out. Oh well,
I think it was towards the endand not turning to Hall of Fame.
Can can you hear me a bit? Yeah? I can hear you fine,
Okay, I just don't think therewas any significant because remember this is
(42:02):
the other thing. They don't haveguns, right, If you don't have
a gun, there's only so muchyou can do. Yes, you can
beat someone and improperly. And hesaid a few times, yeah, and
did that happen? Yeah, andI had to reprimand people kick people out.
But this is the thing about everyfucking cop having a gun. This
(42:23):
Kenney public safety officers having a gun. It's like the ceiling of your fuck
up. Yeah, it's much muchhigh. We're putting the cathedral together out
here. Yeah, yeah, fuckingsixteen chapel. Yeah, exactly, like
(42:43):
yeah, okay, I mean,okay, I mean, I just I
guess I'm saying. I'm just surprisedthat, in spite of all the rules,
we don't have a story of theGuardian Angels going absolutely keep ship on
someone and literally beating some one deathwhen when it wasn't necessary. It sounds
like for for an organizations, it'sbig with a mission like that, right,
(43:08):
that I would almost expect to hearabout it. Um, that's why
I'm asking. But it's just interestingthat no such story ever came out,
and we compare that like you said, when you compare that against well,
we compare that against you know,like almost any modern police if I could
find the worst because I didn't reallylook into what the word, I just
(43:30):
looked at. Most of the researchwas literally, uh, through a few
articles online and his own words,because half of this is his own life,
and I wanted to get his ownlife through the man himself. I
didn't meet him, um, butyou know, through watching videos of him
talking about his own life, umand and other people talking about the Guardian
(43:54):
Angels during the time, including GuardianAngels. But Noah, but this is
the thing. Through all the officials, even the the criticism wasn't that The
criticism was that they were vigilantes,yes, but it was never that there
was this mass, which is it'ssuch a funny empty argument, isn't it.
(44:16):
Like, Ah, man, youguys are responsibly stopping crime when we
done with weapons. I think theywanted people to be scared that they could
do that. But you know what, people said, you already have a
force stepped us right right, We'realready there, dumb. You already have
(44:37):
a force that's either ineffective or violenttowards us or corrupt. All of them.
It's like, so why would we? I mean, some of the
public didn't like them, some ofthe public like their law and order wearing
blue. But ultimately a large contingentof New Yorker supported the Garden Angels because
it's also sorry, yeah, didyou find something? Yeah? No,
(45:01):
I just also one of the scoutthat I also quickly looked up the paid
to the Black Spades, who kindof kind of really set this solid motion
if you if you think about it, because black Spade the one who who
bomb rushed uh, who bomb rushedCurtins during his shift? Right McDonald's Wait,
(45:22):
wait, you found the person whodid it? No? I went
no on to the Wikipedia page forthe Black Spades. Oh I no,
I didn't realize it was the BlackSpades that did it. I thought it
was just the customer that he's dealtwith before that has had this little scam
about the seven eighths of the BigBack. No no, no, no,
no, no no no, therewere the nomads are the one who
(45:44):
did it with the chairs? ThatNo, well, the nomads. The
fight with the Nomads was what gothim to realize he should start the Angels.
Okay, because that can remember aftera little after a bit of debate,
they decided to back up up yeah, and use the artillery, so
that that was the fight, thatthat did it. I just wanted to
(46:06):
say, I I misunderstood, butI looked at the Black stage and they
have also turned from violent I guessI'm guessing violent gang into into non violent
UH party assistance organization and just lookfor ways of feeding, feeding homeless,
(46:28):
and there you go, funding fundingkitchens. But that's how a lot of
these things start, and hopefully they'regoing back to their roots. Most gangs,
I mean, yes, violence canhappen. Yes, actors can be
driven to violence, want violence,but almost all gangs start what we call
games, start the same way.It's to protect each other, to protect
(46:49):
your community, to protect if you'reyou know, if you're an immigrant community
that is oppressed. You know,they all start for the purpose of brotherhood
and community protection. And then somethinghappens, and thankfully the Guardian Angels their
purpose never changed. Their presence decreased, and I think they I think some
(47:13):
of them now have Like I said, I think some of them now have
this weird dichotomy with not seeing theirplace in the police alternatives, not realize
like, I don't think that theyrealize how much their movement could be aligned
with a lot of the current rhetoricbecause they're an older generation. It's kind
(47:40):
of like they're saying, we don'twant it to go back, crime to
go back that way. It's likea lot of the older people are like
doing what older people do, worryingabout crime going back to when it was
when in my day. But thenthe whole point is that you were able
to make a difference during your generationwith that crime through non lethal means.
(48:00):
So if you don't want it togo back to that, that was a
good strategy. It's not like so, I mean, we need people who
can bring these thoughts together, whocan say, you know what, courtesy.
Well may not have all the rhetoricto be a leftist, but the
man, the man got, youknow what, he put in some hours,
(48:22):
even if he doesn't have the words, he put it, he put
in some work, and I thinkwe need to remind We need to remind
him and maybe also kind of opena seat for him to say there's a
place for you in the future ofpolicing. And you may not like the
(48:45):
word to fund, but what youdid actually did defund the pause and people
didn't need to give him as much. Funny, that's the funny. All
this He original to thunder, Soyeah, that's Curtis Lee when the Guardian
(49:08):
angels. I think that it's astory that will always be part of New
York lore. They made a difference, They made a movement, and that
movement is still valuable today. Andit also goes to show you you don't
need to agree with someone, especiallywhen they when they're an old, cranky
(49:29):
Italian man and they're like, Idon't know, seventies. You don't need
to necessarily agree with them to reallyrespect certain things that they did and see
the value in it, and youknow, think that they still have an
important story. All right, Well, thank you for listening to the Brawlick
and we'll see you next time,yepe, next time. Thanks for welling.
Now John Gotty, I believe isjust going just like taking turns in and
out of prison at this point inthe early nineties. I think he gets
convicted in ninety four and really getsaway. Man, that man has gone
to prison. Fucking I can't fuckingI can't fucking keep track of it,
all right, He's He's a constantlyin present. So John Gotti Jr.
Is like the day to day operationsguy. And I'm sure that all this
(00:28):
business with the with drug desecration andGod forbid for a Catholic to actually give
money to the less fortunate in soupkitchen at a church instead of you know,
your hands. So they don't likethis. They also don't like that
Curtis is trying to you know,through the Guardian Angels. He also wants
(00:52):
to stop mob violence, so he'sbecoming an issue. So on April fourth,
nineteen ninety too, Curtis is beatennearly to death by three men with
baseball bats from the Gambino crime family. And you know, I mean,
(01:12):
I understand, I understand that thisis this is what while thinking, but
you know, the Buffy in Americato to from what I remember at least
started specifically to accomplish what Curtis saidout to do just for Italians, right,
I mean they make sure, right, but but again I mean,
(01:36):
you know, for for Yeah,anyway, it's just I know, I
know we're talking. I mean we'retalking nineties at this point, they had
in time to develop. It's beena while since the prohibition, which I'm
sure it's how they have most oftheir money and started. But you know,
again, just there not only that, there was a time when the
bosses had restrictions to what they woulddo. They wouldn't run women, and
(01:57):
they wouldn't run drugs, and thenfuck it, they started to do it.
So it's like because it was toolucrative. So I mean, you're
right, that's exactly why the ColtaNostro started. It's literally called this thing
of ours. It's supposed to bea protective system for the Italian immigrants.
(02:17):
But then what happened was they startedpraying on their own community and they would
pay. They would the community wouldhave to pay them for protection. And
once they realized they could get awaywith that, then it just took off.
Because now people get used to youproviding a service and if you don't
(02:38):
pay us, we're going to ruinyour business. You're gonna go out of
you know, you're gonna go broke. So ever since then, ever since
they started literally praying on the communitythat they were trying to protect their own
community, it has become now whatsome gangs are. It's it's no longer
really about protecting those around you ina sense of purpose. Although I'm sure
(03:00):
some of them feel like they havea fucking sense of purpose after they take
old murder um. But it's justnot for the same reasons. It's more
for us, it's more for apersonal reason, it's more for monetary gain,
it's more for clout. So Curtisgets beaten nearly to death, he
goes to Bellevue Hospital. He's don'tlet us find out about this now.
(03:30):
I gotta say, Curtis has alreadydone some badass ship. But when Curtis,
Curtis survives, and what do youThere's no way they expected this guy.
There's no way they expected this guy. That was what well, they
said it was technically a warning,but it was like a warning that you
could die. You could not ifyou live, it's a warning if you're
(03:50):
dead, it's the ultimate warning.Yeah, yeah, so what do you
think he does after getting released.First of all, he gets he gets
out of there like in a fewdays. It's like, and I'm being
in a comma. M I'm assuminghe throttles the first toality finds. No,
(04:19):
no, no, no, I'mI'm sure. I'm sure he finds
whoever. Curtis doesn't even do that. This is what Curtis does. This
is I think this is the mostbad. They're all badass things. Well,
there's an ultimate badass thing, butthis is second. If you thought
that the drug the ropping the drugdealers thing and helping the community was that's
(04:43):
third. That was that was numberone. Second, he gets out of
Bellevue that I believe that fucking day, he does his radio show and says,
you may have I'm going to tellyou a murder that you didn't know.
Gott he did un fucking live air. Right after he gets out of
(05:06):
the hospital. He's saying, oh, no, no, no, no,
you thought you were going to silenceme. You motivated. I am
the warning, all right, Sohe he apparently now he says this exclamation
(05:29):
boy, yes he is. That'sa perfect right funny. So so he
he he gets sources. Now youknow he wasn't there, but he knows
enough people who are apparently at aclub where John Gotti Junior killed someone in
front of mad fucking people, likejust in the middle of the club because
he felt he's untouchable in front ofmad people. There were so many witnesses,
(05:53):
and there was enough witnesses that ultimatelycame forward to enough people that Curtis
knew that he felt he reached acritical mass to say this guy killed this
John Guy Junior killed this guy infront of all these pep fucking They say
he stabbed in fucking forty six times. It was insane and he I mean,
that's that is how they found thebody. But he's saying that he
did it, you know, apparentlywas over some drug money dispute of some
(06:15):
kind, and but he wasn't.But because enough people didn't want to go
public with it, the authorities weren'tdoing anything. So Curtis he's now made
it. Now that's a public asyou can get that. Yeah, the
day he gets released, he goeson his morning show and says this.
(06:38):
So he so he's he's OK.When dividing hours, when when can my
wife be here with a car okay, sixty phenomenal. I have a show
at seven Surrey. I need todo honey. I know, I know,
I've been away for a few days, and and one of my eyes
is still rolling back my head doinga favor. Just take me to take
me in the station fast. Iwant to go ten ten wins, real
(07:00):
fast. So so this is howmuch of the mob had infiltrated our institutions.
Apparently, so this is like somesocial club that the Gottis ran.
That where this happened. I thinkit was after Curtis's um broadcast that the
(07:20):
Queen's district attorney calls yeah, okay, okay. After curtis Is broadcast,
the Queen's sister attorney calls John Gotti, I think the the number one Gotti.
And he says, pop, PapaGotti. And he says and and
he says, listen, uh,we got a problem. And there work
(07:45):
like the fact that the Queen's districtattorney is calling the father of the guy
in the first place is fucking insane. That but that shows you already how
much power they had, how muchpower the mob had, that the district
attorneys calling him and saying, look, we got a problem. Man,
you gotta I'll give you a fewdays to take care of this. Do
(08:05):
what you have to do. Andhe's good. He says, don't worry,
I'll take care of it. Sookay, okay. So now the
guy that Curtis got the initial informationfrom that that like tipped him enough to
say, okay, I've heard enoughnow that I believe I could say this
(08:26):
after the district attorney because that guywas going to testify, because that guy
was a witness. And yes,yeah, he's he They killed him within
days of that call. He's he's. This is how blatant and how much
like confidence the mob had. Youcan't touch me. They killed him then
(08:50):
hung him. But the way hewas hung it was very it was very
obvious that like the rope was loose, his feet on the ground, basically
to say, you can tell hedidn't die this way. We just wanted
to present him this way to you. Yeah, that's how fucking That's how
the mob was under the Gambinos inthe early nineties. So they left that
(09:13):
in South Osn Park, which isclose to Howard Beach and as we know,
which was the Gambino Gotti's strong guy'sstronghold. All right, But now
the godis no. They have anotherproblem the person who got this whole tide
going in the first place, andwho clearly is not scared of them,
(09:35):
And that's our main man, Curtis. So one day Curtis feels like he
wakes up late for his radio show. He's getting ready. He runs out,
thinks he's gonna be late. Heimmediately sees a cab roll up.
The second he was going to thinkof hail and get it immediately rolls up.
(09:56):
He gets in. He even knowsthe cab driver, because back then
there were enough cab drivers that youknow, and the way this worked,
like you, you ended up knowingeach other after a certain point. Yea.
So he knew the guy there talkingand he tells him, all right,
take me here. But the cabdriver, right when he's about to
(10:16):
make a certain turn, takes thewrong turn, and he says, hey,
you took the wrong turn. Buthe keeps driving and he's driving fast
in the wrong direction. And soonafter that a man comes from under the
passenger seat. So a man washiding under like between the under the passenger
(10:41):
a glove box and the bottom ofthe seat. He was hiding there comes
up and shoots Curtis. He said, the first shot he didn't even feel.
Then he tries to get out.But I this part I don't exactly
get. I think that they didsomething. Either did something with the handle
(11:03):
and they took the handle out andthey didn't and he didn't notice that the
inner handle was out. So hesaid, they basically wanted me to be
in a fucking rolling coffin. Theywanted it to be so I couldn't get
out of the car. Yeah,so he gets shot. I think he
first gets shot in like the shoulder. Then he gets shot in the stomach.
(11:24):
When he realizes he can't get out, he's shot the abdomen, and
then he I don't exactly know howhe pulled this off, but as the
guy's gonna shoot him again, sohe's already got two bullets in him.
Now he goes to the window andin succession he gets shot in the back
(11:48):
and he breaks through the window andhe's on the street and then the mob
thinks that's enough, he's dead andthey drive off. You think rawish,
No, definitely not, no,are you kidding meat? No? He
(12:09):
said, I was laid out onthe asphalt the avenue be in Sixth Street
after being shot multiple times at thatcab, and the plan was to let
him. This was the plan.Apparently they were gonna let him, so
someone was gonna pick him up fromthat area. They were gonna let him
bleed out and then chemically incinerate himso there would be no evidence left.
(12:37):
I mean, that's that's that's alot of work. They no one's gonna
no one's gonna go get him.People are just gonna pas bleeding body on
the street and not I don't dosomething about it. I don't know that
part of the plan didn't work outall right, because Curtis was shipped to
Bellevue and I don't understand the momwas putting together these these fucking like gold
(13:01):
gold ver machines of assassining this guy. Like Okay, he's gonna wake up
one day on that day, wehave a can nearby. The cab has
to have a guy in the seat. He's got at he knows we got
another cab guy. So the capthey did they convince I mean, it's
right in the caddy's family or didthey or we don't know that that part
(13:26):
I don't know, but they musthave. Uh they must have done because
to convince I mean, look,I don't I've never even I've never ever
met Curtis, and you would haveto do something the extreme, get me
to do something bad to Curtis.Yeah, uh no no. But the
mob, the mob fears nobody.They they felt this guy is a thorn
(13:48):
in our side. Uh. He'sshowing he's not scared of us, and
that's what the mob hates the most. They want fear, and Curtis is
saying, you're not gonna get itfrom me. I'll tell you what.
Though they're terrified at this guy,they would I don't think they would go
through all this if they weren't very, very scared. He's a he's a
problem to them. And remember hecan he can get up on a radio
(14:09):
and be like, yeah, thisguy's son. He's a fucking dick also,
and he should probably be in prison. And and now he's got I
mean, I mean, think aboutthat. In an instant, this guy
just turned two thirds of New YorkCity against someone who literally stayed the guy
upward the forty times in a cluband walked away from it. So suddenly
everybody in New York is like,h yeah, yeah, them right,
(14:37):
and then Curtis. This has beenCurtis's life. Curtis's life has been about
using the public, but like innot using using, but the public working
with him has been his life.He's charactic through his actions. So he's
saying, you know what, youmay have the mob, but I got
the city. He's like, II got I have my own backup.
(15:03):
First of all, he has theGuardian Angels and there they don't carry guns.
They're in the thousands upon thousands now, so you know, but he
still has problems. I mean eventhough he has some support. Yeah,
always super identifiable by his funny littlered hat. Stay where it's it's super
easy to pick him out. Imean we could be hiding the crowd or
(15:24):
whatever. Yeah, yeah, whyyou see like four guys was like back
everything suits, not doing nothing,just looking for I'll going into the social
club. It's always a social clubclub, nothing weird going on, you.
So, so Curtis is on theoperating table and he finds out the
(15:48):
surgeons from Carnarci and that's how heknows he'll be okay. It's like,
how you Curtis is from Canarci Brooklyn. He's like, I'll be all right,
then what hap this fucking conversation whilehe's sitting there having ship picked out
of him before I guess before hegoes under. He's conscious enough and he's
talking to him. Where the guy'stalking to him, Curtis is conscious?
(16:08):
Star? It are you Tony's cousin? Oh no, shit, Hey,
I think I was in high schoolwith your sister. I didn't finish high
school. I was busy. Iwas busy running McDonald that had fucking race
riots outside and gangs. Hey,I hope I'm still all right? All
(16:29):
right, this guy's terrifying. Souh all told um for some Well,
actually, let me get to someof the final stats about the Guardian Angels
and everything. Not final because technicallystill in operation. So now in two
(16:51):
thousand, uh, John Aldo,who is work was part of the Gambino
crime family and part of the Idon't believe he was in the car,
but he was one of the architectsof the hit on Sliwallah. Plea bargained
two. I can't I can't believethis. I can't I can't believe.
(17:15):
I can't believe that Plea bargain andthis goes together, he admitted to fifteen
fifteen murders. Now, I don'tknow. He must have had something else
on this guy. He must say. He must have gave up the whole
game. I think he probably broughtthem down single handedly. I know that.
God he soon after uh, becauseGod, he's been in prison.
But his big sentence came in thetwo thousands, but he was in prison
(17:40):
in the nineties, So I don'tI don't know. He must have told
it. He must have told allthe secrets or it was or it was
that he ar. I mean,you still are charged for this, and
you should be. He was thearchitect of fifteen murders, and he didn't
actually carry them out. If he'shigh enough, high in high, up
enough in the mob, that iscommon that you you're not actually the one
(18:03):
who carries them out, but youare the one who orders the hit.
So he either carried out some ofthese ordered to hit either way. Fifteen
times he was involved. That's afucking lot, and injuring any and trained
thirty set Okay, so then hetrained thirty seven people to I guess do
the hits. This is fucking insane. Yes, what you're gonna do is
you're gonna curw up in a realtight ball, see and when when you
(18:26):
got that? Now, next,but you needed a cab driver and then
also a car, and also makesure you find a car with like a
real fat glove box to hide yourbig ass after you're eating a lot of
meat balls. Okay, now thisis the hard part. You gotta be
wait for. You gotta do somethingto make sure he's late for you.
(18:49):
Gotta fucking break a pipe in hishouse, all right, something something you
gotta do to delay him, gethim off his get him off his game,
all right, castellany bring those kneesclose to your chain. You're really
not in a tight enough like Ineed you to think passenger seat footwell right
now, all right, it's notalways gonna fucking catillact. We have condas.
(19:11):
Listen. If you don't do it, we're gonna get one of those
circule motherfuckers to do it, andthey'll do it for half your price.
Okay, don't make me. Don'tlet me go get a French guy,
please, this is embarrassing, offsitors. Don't make me fucking outsourced from Italians?
All right. So so now,all right, so that that was
the ultimate badass thing, all right, he I mean he survived. He
(19:36):
survived the ultimate hit. He gotout of a car by sheer force.
God. I mean, you canbreak a window, but to break a
window while you're being fired at,not have a tool, and just with
the way he just it actually makessense that his momentum plus the momentum of
the fucking gun and bullet compelled throughthe window. Anyway. So but this
(20:03):
is the right this guy what thisguy flips right, he's the fifteen murders
guy. Okay, so him JohnAldo? All right, So enter Haraldo
Rivera again that's crazy. Yeah,so so he is, Uh, Haralda
(20:32):
Rivera has a show. And Ibelieve Alito has a book. Of course,
they always have a fucking book,because because once listen, once that
Levy breaks fucking at that point,I'm telling all I'm making Yeah, so
I think he has a book.He's promoting something, all right, and
you can guess what's gonna happen next. So remember Alito's the guy who orchestrated
(20:56):
He wasn't in the car, buthe did orchestrate it. Harah though,
Nope, you know Haraldo knows Curtis. He's been out the show before.
While in the middle of the showCurtis Watson and six next sitting next to
Sean and John tries to keep it. John tries to keep it together.
(21:19):
Um and uh, Harald is like, so hey, do I get a
chapter fellas? Um? What doyou what do you think? How do
you think that? You know?Curtis is feeling right now sitting next to
the name He really says. Hereally says this, stating next to the
(21:40):
man who planned his his hit,and he's like, well, you know
I would feel bad too if itwas me. I understand being in his
shoes that, you know, youwouldn't really feel too good about. It's
like some run of the round,run around and then and then later he's
like time for the first time andthen later what does he say? He's
(22:06):
like, well, you know that'sbehind me now now I'm with people,
good people like you and Curtis,And uh, I think that's what flipped
Curtis like, because like they Curtis, at first, I was just gonna
try to keep a cob. Buthe's like, oh, you trying to
be my friend now, because Ithink that's what did it. Because then
Carldo turns to him and he says, all right, Soti Curtis, how
do you feel? He says,well, I get that he flipped after
(22:29):
the fourth fucking time going to court, So that was the first opening.
That was the first opening. Andthen he says, am I ever gonna
shake his hand? Mind you?He's like, right fucking here, you
could shake his head. You shouldn't. I understand why, But it's just
a basic It's not saying it faraway, like Curtis is saying, if
you thought I was gonna shake yourhand, I'm not shaking your fucking hand.
(22:51):
So he's saying, am I gonnashake his hand? No? If
he slipped in the bathroom and hithis head and you know, died,
what I sleepover it? Something likethat? He says, No, I
wouldn't what I what I think?Would? I think God did a favor?
Yeah? Problem? And that's that'show that interview went. And like,
(23:11):
what do you expect? That isthe cell of shit in that studio
the second that guy walks in.UM so so all told um honestly,
(23:33):
I just want to roll it backa little bit. I think I think
that might be the most badass thingI know. I know, Okay,
yeah he got shot and lived.Yeah, but then he just walks up
to the guy who organized it anddidn't kill him. I think the self
control he's in this, what ishe who's gonna protect him? A fucking
(23:55):
reporter? Yeah yeah, you thinkthat. You think the crew standing around
the studio's gonna do anything about itagainst the guy who has survived being shot
three times and beaten in the streets. So Jesus Christ. Yeah, No.
Mentally, I mean, I mean, i'd say one is the most
(24:15):
physically badass, and I mean italso takes mental fortitude to escape as he
did. But I'd say mental fortitudein that different. This is like this,
you're digesting this. This isn't justlike moment an instinct. This is
you have, like you said,you have a moment like you have to
not you have to not kill thatperson that whole time. Yeah, I'm
(24:37):
gonna like a parents, But thisin today's world, this is this would
get posted and taken down on TikTokwithin like this guy's got it murdered on
camera, for sure. No one, no one has this level of self
contrawer right now. You have tohave that thought run through your head during
the entire interview and hold it eachfucking exactly who can do that? Oh
(25:07):
my god, so and I'm sorry, and he's this guy. Curtis still
has access to thousands of people whowouldn't sting this guy he just sitting there
having betrayed. He could he couldcall the hit from the mob. The
(25:33):
mob could say we have a commonenemy. He could do he could get
a hit from like around the world. Yeah, Curtis shown up with it.
He could put out the call rightthen. He could have been like,
you know what, I know,I got some of you, my
boy, just come with me today. Let's just all go open the studio
together, all what three dozen ofus. Let's just give John ah hug
(26:00):
let's let's But he still was like, fuck it, I'll just go alone
and sit there with like the snickervein in my forehead, just like whites
getting out like it is. It'staking everything to I push you down in
the bathtub myself, you stupid batalion. Fuck. Oh my god. Uh
(26:23):
yeah. So all told and thisis terrible. But when you think about
the quantity of Guardian Angels, therewas over one hundred forty thousand Guardian Angels
at least around around the world,six at least in at least in the
US, so that's around the way. I don't know if the statistics include
(26:45):
globally, but in the US sixdied, and that's terrible. That's also
a low percent. That's six thatmany. Six died and and over thirty
were injured. That's badass. Imean. And to be honest, we
(27:07):
know at least one of those withoutthe hand of the police, and it's
possible others were too, right,I mean, yeah, yeah, no,
sorry, that's just the fact thatisn't one hundred percent at the hands
of people doing shady ship that theywere trying to prevent is insane. Right.
(27:32):
The fact that one of that,even one of them was you like,
gunned down by police, since Imean, and that and that's only
six whole dared, that is nuts, um Curtis. Ultimately, he continued
his radio show. He continued onNew York One. Uh. He ultimately
(27:52):
did make a run for mayor.He knew he couldn't get the Democrat nominee,
so he did run as a Republican. Wow, I want to want
to I want to hear a goodreason why he couldn't get anyone's nation getting
everything that we've heard, he thisis the thing that is confusing about me
(28:14):
about Curtis at this time of hislife, and I mean, like the
past few years, he seems tosuddenly side with the police, and I
don't understand it. The police hasbeen the thorn in his side most of
his life, the thorn in theside of those who wanted to join the
Guardian Angels. Like if the policehad their way, he probably wouldn't have
(28:37):
half the Guardian Angels because they wouldhave been locked up for some bullshit,
or they would have been on thestreet because they had no alternative. So
I don't I don't understand. Now, I do understand when he ended up
running against Adams because this is thething. He knew he couldn't win the
Democrat primary. It was too crowded. This is my political thoughts. He
knew he couldn't win the Democrat primeMary because it was too crowded. He
(29:02):
knew that Adams was most likely towin after Stringer went down, so he
said, Okay, it's going tobe one guy with police background versus me.
If I was him, I wouldhave said, I am the community
policing person. I am the alternativeto police person. I know exactly what
(29:23):
the police should be doing what somany people in that have been part of
the Black Lives Matter movement. Whenthey're saying defund the police, they actually
mean to have. It's not aboutno public safety, that's the misnomer.
It's reallocate resources, yes to education, yes to housing, but also to
(29:45):
have a community safety that is independentof the police, that doesn't involve the
police, much like the first realone New York ever had called the Guardian
Angels. If I was courtesily,I would have ran with that, and
ran against Adams with that and said, no, we've done it your way
too long. We need us tobe the front line. We did it
(30:08):
before, we had crying down.I was the architect of it, and
I will and if I could doit then with note without mayoral powers,
imagine what I could do in thatoffice. And I would again to reiterate,
only six of them died. Butit's the last time, only six
six and in the year Jesus Christ, I mean, I ah, so
(30:37):
I don't get it. I also, let's let's be honest. Older Italian
and older Polish bad also get olderand crankier. And this also is the
way that many of them go.I hope though the first springs no kind
of It's confusing to me the firstof that springs to find their career is
just that maybe as a maybe ashe gets older, he has more of
(31:00):
an opportunity to fund on what hewas doing and how fucking crazy it was
that he got away with so muchincling being shot by the mob, that
maybe he's begun to feel like that'sactually kind of nuts for sixteen year old
to embark on. I really justwant the police to do their fucking jobs
so that that doesn't happen. AndI think that I can come out as
support for the police right because theyare the authority that ought to be handling
(31:22):
it. Yeah, but he didn'ttalk about the police being better. He
basically said, you know, heplayed off the defundse and no refund We
got to give them more money,and you know, he just he wanted
to be probably got he got involvedwith the with the the BLM movement in
this in this capacity, I mean, not involved with it, but fighting
(31:45):
against it. He well, Iwould say outwardly he was, I mean
by proxy, because he was.He didn't I wouldn't say he made a
huge amount of time against the BLMmovement himself. It was typically about defund
the police. He specifically was againstthat part of it. Certainly, he
(32:06):
certainly didn't speak to the reason why. And he wanted to get the police
unions backing, and he did getsome of it. The police was like
split and to me again, it'slike, this is the union that never
gave you credit, that wanted tocripple you, that arrested you. It's
just right. I still don't getwhy that told them all about you and
(32:28):
that nearly got the cripple and dead. Sure, I will, I will,
I'm I mean, I'm sure theydid. I'm sure that the police
and right and the DA and thepolice are together. Yeah yeah, yeah,
the d A certainly certainly so.So I don't I don't get it.
(32:49):
I don't get if he did itentirely out of strategy. But even
if it wasn't entirely out of strategy, it doesn't make sense to me.
And it's it's a bit disappointing thatthat is, at least for now the
last chapter of his career he did. Of course, he didn't win Eric
Adams one. I honestly don't thinkthat Sleewa would have been a worse mayor
than Adams. Adams is basically Republican. He's a Republican New Yorker that he
(33:14):
won as a Democrat. But he'sbasically as Republican as Sleewa is. If
Sleewao did, if Sleewa implemented afraction of the Guardian Angels in policing now,
he would be ten times more liberalthan Adams, who doesn't want to
do any of that, just wantsmore of the same. So, I
mean, it's confusing to me,But I gotta be honest with you.
(33:39):
As much as I have very muchthe same for nearly every Republican, I
have to say that if I'm justlooking at the totality of this man's life,
I can't deny all that he did. I can't deny what he stood
for, even if ultimately he's endingup in a place I don't agree with
and that I think is detrimental tocertain causes. Whether he realizes or not,
(34:02):
he was one of the most antipolice forces in New York City's history
from a like visual, tangible level. He may not have had the policy
mind for it. He may nothave been a part of I mean,
he was a part of a movement, a public safety movement. He may
not have had certain language, butwhen it comes to guys actually doing an
(34:25):
alternative, he did it. Yeah, I mean he did it. He's
the one who did it. Heand of course credit to everyone else,
but he started it, and atleast at the time, he understood a
lot of the reasons why the policeweren't effective. I don't know what happened
when he ran from air, butwhile he was most aft in the Guardian
Angels, he did understand that theywere harassing people who shouldn't be harassed.
(34:47):
He did understand that they were stereotypingblacks and Latinos and acting on those stereotypes.
He said it. He said it, even even now he says that.
So it's a weird dichotomy. ButI'm just gonna I can I'm gonna
hold both. I'm not gonna givehim a pass because I think it disappoints
me and I disagree with what hestands for now. But I'm also not
(35:12):
going to negate the real work hedid that is a part of us liberating
from the police. That work stillmatters. Yeah, and he's a tough
son of a bitch. I mean, I mean you can't you I don't
care what listen, you cannot denythis man is like any political party.
(35:35):
Okay, that's that's a tough motherfuckerto get through all he went through.
And like you said, to neverhe never, he never shot anybody.
I don't even know if he hadpicked up a gun in his life,
right, I'm I'm very very surprisedthat no story as a question of his
character, but it's just he hadan ample reason to walk around, you
(36:01):
know, armed to the fucking teeth, this guy, especially by the time
we don't think we didn't get intothe mob pop but yeah, sure,
definitely by that, I mean,it's almost a little bit frankly, it's
almost a little bit crazy that hewasn't you know, walking around are and
by the time he was beaten upby the by the mob or what I
(36:21):
mean, and uh and and uh, yeah, I mean, it's it's
incredible that he that he never backeddown from his position, not that I
mean, like you said, hemay not. He incorporated a lot of
liberal principles. He may not usethose terms, but he fought for gay
people when no one else did,literally fought for them. He incorporated people
(36:45):
who had records and gave them anotherchance. He took people off the street
and believed in them and believed thatthey could protect their own communities. He
believed that there was alternatives to police. He believed in non lethal conflict resolution.
He incorporated women in this role andsaid, just through the same if
you could do the same thing themen do, you're as good as anybody.
(37:07):
He even had a woman collided withhim, his own partner. I
mean, he he what he gotdone, because when you think about it,
the run for mayor, I hehe is still a figurehead in the
past few years. Yes, Idon't believe he's used his platform in ways
that I agree with. But ifyou're looking for his real impact, the
(37:30):
real impact I believe was on theright side of history. Yeah. So
I'm curious. We're at the endnow I should Yeah, go ahead,
it's this is the saga. Thesaga has concluded, well Otter, Otter
has concluded my saga. So,I mean I'm curious because I mean we're
(37:55):
talking about more than one hundred thousandmembers right right for him to be,
for him to be, but forhim to be a figurehead of all those
people, you think that I'm I'dbe surprised if the culture of Guardiananiels was
(38:16):
one that that held fast perfectly overall the time that they operated it.
I mean, I assume they're stillout there a little bit, but it
sounds like they're prime times die downa little bit, right, Yeah,
it's after the nineties. It's sortof deteriorated. I think, so do
we was the last kind of standI don't. I'm not saying that he
got tired of it. I mean, if anyone has a right, yeah,
(38:43):
it's it. But I'm saying,like, I don't know all the
reasons, but look after Yeah,it's just interesting to me that it's between
why is that right? Where?Why his direct involvement with it seems to
drive it. It almost seems likehis presence is what keeps everybody on the
(39:06):
straight and narrow with the Guardian Angelguidelines a little bit here, right,
So, like I'm looking at justI'm looking at the Wikipedia page for controversies,
and there's not a lot going onhere. And I think that I'm
I'm a little surprised by that becausefor a gang that we could call for,
all right, maybe not a gain, but a public public safety movement
(39:29):
that safety group that prides itself onbeing able to take a couple of hits
and then dips them out way harderand also like, I don't know,
in full rate, a fucking druggingoperation and get away, get away with
one dime right, let me theyfucking robbed, robbed. They're like,
(39:51):
we're not doings, We're not doingany of this, Larry Larry ra shit.
We are breaking the bucket, knockingknuckle heads down, taking your ship
it, given it to the reverend, to the priest, and then get
the fuck out It's brothers at thepoint. Yeah, I mean, I'm
I guess, I guess I'm justsurprised. I guess I'm just surprised that
(40:13):
the list of that went wrong isn'tlonger, Like, do we have evidence
of them royally fucking things up andbeating people up senselessly for no reason?
Did that have happened here? I'mlooking, I'm looking for way, I'm
looking for ways to kind of defeatthe Because we painted a very perfect picture
(40:34):
of the Guardian Angel's end of untilthe very end of I wouldn't say it
was perfect because of the gets theBernard Gates thing. I think that was
wrong I think obviously, I thinkwhere Curtis ultimately fell on the political spectrum
and what he supported was wrong.But to be honest with you, they
didn't have a large percent that didanything noteworthy like that. They just didn't.
(40:57):
I'm that' he said himself. Ofcourse I had people who broke the
rules and I had to throw out, but it just it just was not
I mean, you think about theamount of the NYPD and that person even
by their own standards, their ownreports, their own people who get written
up like it's incredible that the becauseI think the Guardian Angels really felt like
(41:20):
they were. There was so muchpride I think at that time to be
a part of that and at atime where there was just hopelessness. There
was hopelessness on your block. Ifyou weren't harassed by the cops, you
were harassed by your own you know, the people in the community who also
felt no hope. Um, youdidn't have many options. The drug drugs
(41:42):
were so it's like, I thinkmy headset went out. Oh well,
I think it was towards the endand not turning to Hall of Fame.
Can can you hear me a bit? Yeah? I can hear you fine,
Okay, I just don't think therewas any significant because remember this is
(42:02):
the other thing. They don't haveguns, right, If you don't have
a gun, there's only so muchyou can do. Yes, you can
beat someone and improperly. And hesaid a few times, yeah, and
did that happen? Yeah, andI had to reprimand people kick people out.
But this is the thing about everyfucking cop having a gun. This
(42:23):
Kenney public safety officers having a gun. It's like the ceiling of your fuck
up. Yeah, it's much muchhigh. We're putting the cathedral together out
here. Yeah, yeah, fuckingsixteen chapel. Yeah, exactly, like
(42:43):
yeah, okay, I mean,okay, I mean, I just I
guess I'm saying. I'm just surprisedthat, in spite of all the rules,
we don't have a story of theGuardian Angels going absolutely keep ship on
someone and literally beating some one deathwhen when it wasn't necessary. It sounds
like for for an organizations, it'sbig with a mission like that, right,
(43:08):
that I would almost expect to hearabout it. Um, that's why
I'm asking. But it's just interestingthat no such story ever came out,
and we compare that like you said, when you compare that against well,
we compare that against you know,like almost any modern police if I could
find the worst because I didn't reallylook into what the word, I just
(43:30):
looked at. Most of the researchwas literally, uh, through a few
articles online and his own words,because half of this is his own life,
and I wanted to get his ownlife through the man himself. I
didn't meet him, um, butyou know, through watching videos of him
talking about his own life, umand and other people talking about the Guardian
(43:54):
Angels during the time, including GuardianAngels. But Noah, but this is
the thing. Through all the officials, even the the criticism wasn't that The
criticism was that they were vigilantes,yes, but it was never that there
was this mass, which is it'ssuch a funny empty argument, isn't it.
(44:16):
Like, Ah, man, youguys are responsibly stopping crime when we
done with weapons. I think theywanted people to be scared that they could
do that. But you know what, people said, you already have a
force stepped us right right, We'realready there, dumb. You already have
(44:37):
a force that's either ineffective or violenttowards us or corrupt. All of them.
It's like, so why would we? I mean, some of the
public didn't like them, some ofthe public like their law and order wearing
blue. But ultimately a large contingentof New Yorker supported the Garden Angels because
it's also sorry, yeah, didyou find something? Yeah? No,
(45:01):
I just also one of the scoutthat I also quickly looked up the paid
to the Black Spades, who kindof kind of really set this solid motion
if you if you think about it, because black Spade the one who who
bomb rushed uh, who bomb rushedCurtins during his shift? Right McDonald's Wait,
(45:22):
wait, you found the person whodid it? No? I went
no on to the Wikipedia page forthe Black Spades. Oh I no,
I didn't realize it was the BlackSpades that did it. I thought it
was just the customer that he's dealtwith before that has had this little scam
about the seven eighths of the BigBack. No no, no, no,
no, no no no, therewere the nomads are the one who
(45:44):
did it with the chairs? ThatNo, well, the nomads. The
fight with the Nomads was what gothim to realize he should start the Angels.
Okay, because that can remember aftera little after a bit of debate,
they decided to back up up yeah, and use the artillery, so
that that was the fight, thatthat did it. I just wanted to
(46:06):
say, I I misunderstood, butI looked at the Black stage and they
have also turned from violent I guessI'm guessing violent gang into into non violent
UH party assistance organization and just lookfor ways of feeding, feeding homeless,
(46:28):
and there you go, funding fundingkitchens. But that's how a lot of
these things start, and hopefully they'regoing back to their roots. Most gangs,
I mean, yes, violence canhappen. Yes, actors can be
driven to violence, want violence,but almost all gangs start what we call
games, start the same way.It's to protect each other, to protect
(46:49):
your community, to protect if you'reyou know, if you're an immigrant community
that is oppressed. You know,they all start for the purpose of brotherhood
and community protection. And then somethinghappens, and thankfully the Guardian Angels their
purpose never changed. Their presence decreased, and I think they I think some
(47:13):
of them now have Like I said, I think some of them now have
this weird dichotomy with not seeing theirplace in the police alternatives, not realize
like, I don't think that theyrealize how much their movement could be aligned
with a lot of the current rhetoricbecause they're an older generation. It's kind
(47:40):
of like they're saying, we don'twant it to go back, crime to
go back that way. It's likea lot of the older people are like
doing what older people do, worryingabout crime going back to when it was
when in my day. But thenthe whole point is that you were able
to make a difference during your generationwith that crime through non lethal means.
(48:00):
So if you don't want it togo back to that, that was a
good strategy. It's not like so, I mean, we need people who
can bring these thoughts together, whocan say, you know what, courtesy.
Well may not have all the rhetoricto be a leftist, but the
man, the man got, youknow what, he put in some hours,
(48:22):
even if he doesn't have the words, he put it, he put
in some work, and I thinkwe need to remind We need to remind
him and maybe also kind of opena seat for him to say there's a
place for you in the future ofpolicing. And you may not like the
(48:45):
word to fund, but what youdid actually did defund the pause and people
didn't need to give him as much. Funny, that's the funny. All
this He original to thunder, Soyeah, that's Curtis Lee when the Guardian
(49:08):
angels. I think that it's astory that will always be part of New
York lore. They made a difference, They made a movement, and that
movement is still valuable today. Andit also goes to show you you don't
need to agree with someone, especiallywhen they when they're an old, cranky
(49:29):
Italian man and they're like, Idon't know, seventies. You don't need
to necessarily agree with them to reallyrespect certain things that they did and see
the value in it, and youknow, think that they still have an
important story. All right, Well, thank you for listening to the Brawlick
and we'll see you next time,yepe, next time. Thanks for welling.
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