September 1, 2023 • 52 mins
Sitdown comedians and cousins Evan Mastronardi and Chris Bojemski examine DJ Kool Herc, the "Godfather" of Hip-Hop, and the genre's early origins.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're listening to the prowlig Whatever AllThings Broke Network. Uh, this is
a New York history podcast that happensevery so often where I I'm just gonna
go with the greatest hits because Ididn't have time to think of anything.
Man who has debt Rental Affordable Housing, owner of Wildcat Evan Mastrenardi reads a
(00:25):
story of New York history to hiscousin Chris, who has no idea what
the story to be about, noidea what the story is going to be
about. Even that's the street isthat you'll never know, you do know,
and then I don't know. Yeah, you both know. It's not
supposed to happen. It's like,you know, I've been wanting to say
this all day. Nineteen nineteen twothousand, the year of our Lord Optimus
(00:51):
Prime, or the guy who's filmingturns the camera on himself in Jubilee from
begin there will be no tables ladder'schairs here, gentlemen, there's pro bono
thirteenth century Gregorian chances. He keepsclaiming he's been poisoned, Yes, by
(01:15):
the fist fucking at all that youtake, because port there's a McDonald's University
His decision to a list was quotea primal compulsions exclamation. Boy, Yes,
Steve, you may have the mob, but I got the city.
Have you ever met your ex wife? Because Sarah exhausted Alexander Graham cell number.
(01:45):
I don't talk to Gallardo five timesa day. He's got my fucking
house. He LARPs like, hey, just say no promer marine fan Kosovo,
help of the former MYPD commissioner injail, and now I'm being hunted
by him. How are you doing, I'm saying on your daughter's couch.
Kick is credited in this silk.I am looking at the official Wikipedia page
(02:07):
for him university. Well, itwas only a matter of time before we
put these two things together. Ihad another drink in the airport on the
way back, but after that Iwas I was pretty good, pumped through
a fucking ivy. That's right.The gays got to him. Yeah,
yeah, the gays bud Lights.I could you just imagine like the notion
(02:32):
of like this game Afia like huddledaround just like bottles and bottles of bud
Light, just trying to like indoctrinateus to become trans trying to intrinate the
fucking CEO of annahzer Bush, Yes, of Anna eiser Busch, who clearly
cares of course cares nothing about money. So it's it's just it's since since
(02:53):
went out the window a long timeago. Uh. Anyway, ships and
rainbows, it is, let's beginand uh nineteen seventy three the air.
Actually wait, no, we're gonnastart earlier. I forgot nineteen fifty five,
(03:15):
April sixteenth, nineteen fifty five yearof our Lord m C Jatown and
uh absolutely hitting us with the withthe classics. Yeah and MC. It
will be because Clive Campbell was bornin Kingston, Jamaica, Keith and Netti
(03:40):
Campbell. So while growing up thisis Kingston, Jamaica, Jamaica, not
Kingston, jama not to make anot to make a queen's where I'm sure
there is a kingstate community as well. Uh no, not where our Lord
JFK has touched down, the actualKingston, Jamaica. We we can't leave
(04:00):
anything well enough alone. No wecan't. It's it's the same guy name
in half of this country. Uh. So growing up Clive, when he
was a young lad, he sawall these sound systems, uh in his
neighborhood and Jamaica and in Jamaica.You know they called him dance halls.
Dance halls or how that genre aform of regga, usually a faster form
(04:23):
that that people are really getting buckedtoo. Yeah, call is called dance
hall. It's a different kind ofwhat's the what's the what's the dance called
with the when you're dad on thewhen you're pond jack pondafloor daddy XC yes
jack jack knifing or daggering, daggeringwhen you'd like jump from different heights onto
(04:46):
the awaiting we'll call partner. Yeah, damsel who is inviting you or sometimes
not inviting you. You should notdo that's not convincedentsual and it can yield
and a hernias and lower back paint. So uh was that a story?
Oh, I've seen many daggering failsand not. It's not a safe thing
(05:08):
to do to jump on top oflike from like eight speakers down onto someone
for yourself or the partner. No, but it's it's it's different. It's
different when there's a person when whenshe's on her back on the floor legs
akimbo waiting for you. Yeah,she's not. If she's not doing that,
it's not daggering. You could,yes, but you could still miss
(05:30):
this has occurred, Okay, itdoesn't. This doesn't always have like a
perfect Olympic fucking daggering landing. Okay, right And anyway, So he grew
up here and seeing the sound andthen the next Olympic sport uh and in
the dance halls uh. And hebecame fascinated with this. And he also
(05:55):
game fascinated with the fact that anddancils sometimes people would speak over the music
and it would become something called toasting, where you would speak over the beats
while people were dancing. It didn'tjust mean it was like a toast at
a wedding. It was the namefor your talking over while people are dancing.
So he remembered all of this,some foreshadowing Kire. He remembered all
(06:17):
of this in his mind, allthese interests as he emigrated with his family
at the age of twelve to noneother than the BX, my hometown,
Bronx, New York. And inNovember nineteen sixty seven he touched down at
fifteen twenty Sedgwick Avenue, taken allthat from Jamaica to Sedgwick, which happens
(06:46):
to be the street that you boyalso grew up on. It's a very
long long street. So now he'sattending alfredy Smith High School and he starts
to spend a lot of time inthe weight room, and he was also
with his friends trying to you know, create his own music. He would
he would DJ. They may notalways called it djaying like something. The
(07:11):
term DJing was around then, butit wasn't necessarily you'll see this is foreshadowing
again what later on is. ButDJ's at the time were considered a lot
of times people who facilitated the clubs, the disco clubs and played the music
there, and also the person whowas on the radio who would play music.
(07:33):
Sure, but he was starting touh try to mess around with different
turntables, and he finally got hisown, and the combination of him playing
uh whenever wherever he could at differentparties, and him hitting the weight room
and just his suave, motherfucking naturegave him the name DJ cool herk ringing
(08:01):
a bell yet, Nope, nope, okay, that's fine, it's better
this way. That's why it works. Okay, Now we're we're extremely I
mean from the from the dance hallmusic puts this extremely far out of my
elements for sure. Well, it'sgonna get closer and closer. So perfect.
So he's going to clubs and playingas he can, but he hasn't
(08:26):
yet really gotten a huge party yet. And but he's getting he's becoming well
known in the neighborhood. So thenat one at one point, uh Herk
has a sister, Cindy, andCindy and Hirk decide that they want to
help. They want to throw aparty. So this is why I want
(08:50):
to do this. In August.On August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
Hurrican and Cindy through in the reckroom of twenty Sedric Avenue, a party
that many will consider to be thebirth of hip hop. Wow and uh
(09:13):
so so so toasting turned into yeah, exactly. You see where it's it's
coming into so interesting on a littleindex card. It's so funny that someone
kept it. It showed the initialflyer for this. They were like,
we didn't have like, they didn'thave fucking Microsoft paint, they didn't have
word processing, they didn't have alltheir ship but that that has definitely become
(09:37):
its own art form. If youwalk around to the Bronx Long enough you
can spot these, just just incase we happen to get a listener someday
who has never been to the Bronx. You can if you walk around the
Bronx long enough, you can getthese like block party posters on lad posts
and stuff with like the quite possiblynew worst photoshop job and sign arrangement you've
(10:01):
ever seen. But but you youwill know if there is a person attending
it. You will know because everysingle name of every every musician attending will
manage to find by eleven and largeaerial font typed on a Beta max.
It'll just be He'll just be there. Honestly, God, it was probably
(10:22):
printed on the library filmed with atoaster. Uh yeah, it may It
may have been, because that's howfar back our libraries are. It probably
still has the same technological capacity aswhen herk went to the libraries. Laser
la jet printers, yeah, laserjet printers, major major laser printing while
daggering at the same time. Soon this now very famous index card you
(10:50):
see you know it shows where it'son fifteen twenty Centric Avenue. It's when
it's August eleventh, nineteen seventy three. It's from nine pm to four am,
which in high school. I don'tknow if a lot of parents,
because everybody's got to see this ship. I wasn't. I wasn't following exactly
(11:11):
with the dates. So he wasborn in fifty five, now seventy three,
so that he is still a teenager. Then, yeah he's psil Atina.
He's he's seven. So they're inhigh school and then hosting this.
Yeah, they're they're finishing high school. This is going to be a back
to school party for I believe hissenior year. Yeah, what a what
a way do you have? Doyou ever? Have you ever celebrated so
(11:33):
hard you invent a new genre ofview? Hey? What what did you
do? Bro? We went toCabo? Yeah, I invented a whole
fucking genre that is a lot fiftyyears later and and has birthed billions upon
billions of dollars. Brilliant. Butwe fucking got we drank out of our
ass. It's like, all right, all right, Connor, enjoy enjoy,
(11:58):
enjoy too. Juanna. Connor's doingbody shots, dude, Yes,
really really body shots. So it'sI mean, this isn't the reck room
of his parents' building, So it'sinteresting I'm like, did they know the
four am part was there? Because, like, I don't know about parents,
most parents wouldn't like want Randalls tobe cut. At first, I
(12:22):
thought it was actually in the apartment, and I'm sure the apartment was still
open for things, so I know, if I'm his mom, I'm like,
who did you consult to schedule thistime phrase? Because it clearly was
not me. But but she's stillin the kitchen, he told him and
his sister telling the story that thatshe's in the kitchen. I think of
the reck room too, making foodbut also monitoring everyone to make sure they
(12:43):
don't act a fool and go crazy. Is this Is this like a tremendous
fucking party by the time it actuallyhappens, So he says he doesn't even
know how many people showed up.So I mean, we know that it
got big enough that they had toleave the rec room and then go across
the street into a park at somepoint. I think inside it got close
(13:07):
to fifty people, which it certainlyin a Bronx apartment would mean I am
standing on people in a rec room. I could see that still being a
shit time, but a rec roomis still a lot when you have to
think that Herk got the equipment,he got all his DJ stuff, he
got speakers, he got a Therewas a picture I think, I think
it was of him at the timeor one of his friends driving his equipment
(13:30):
in a Cadillac and a big convertibleand it was just these it looked like
ten foot long towers that are justpopping out of the back of this car.
Like I kind of yeah, it'skind of amazing that he was able
to get his hands on all thisequipment at seventeen or whatever, you know,
And I'm sure you know he brokeit. Her deal, he broke
(13:52):
it. He broke it. Adeal on the block must have. I
mean, he had he was hewas fascinated with this and he had a
he had a dream, so soHerc. Also, he didn't like disco.
This was a big thing. Hedid not like disco. Disco was
very big during the seventies. Sohe wanted to focus on funk and soul
(14:13):
like Rufus and Shaka Khan and JamesBrown, and he wanted to start making
sounds and instead of having parties withdisco like most people were doing in the
city, he wanted to put thistogether. So what he ended up doing
at first was he was noticing thatbefore when he would just the dj as
(14:35):
and he was playing the songs,he wasn't doing anything really yet. He
was noticing that during the time whenthere was just a musical break they just
called this, you know, thebreak, people would dance the most.
And he was like, well,what if I took just the breaks and
(14:56):
I connected them in a loop.So I'm not gonna have one turntable,
I'm gonna have two, and he'sgonna play one break from the song and
then play it again on the otherand then go back and forth and back
and forth. So it just createsone continuous loop that he then ended up
dubbing the Merry Go Round. Soat the party he debuts this and people
(15:22):
are like going crazy. Yeah,They're like, oh shit, it's the
same thing again and again, andit's just not fucking stopping. And it's
like, this is like when weconsider remixes and clubs now that are dance
heavy, this is what does theselong musical breaks. The beats are what
people are really dancing too. It'snot just the singing. And then Kark
(15:43):
said, wait a second, Icould go crazy. If I got two
turntables, why does it even needto be the same song. So then
he started taking breaks from one songand putting it with another song, thus
creating what many considered to be theand he would talk over that too,
(16:03):
sometimes, thus creating what many peoplemay consider the first time sampling ever happened.
Yeah, he created go ahead,do we know? Do we know?
What? What? What? What? The first what? The first
few songs were okay, so letme get to that. Uh now so
(16:30):
this, uh, this is whatis very This story could have been its
own, but I decided to includeit in this. Yeah. So it
was a combination. At least twoparts of it were a combination between uh,
James Brown and the incredible bongo bandMichael Viner's incredible bongo band. I'm
(16:57):
gonna tell you right now that Idon't know who the fuck that is,
but I'm positive this was. Thiswas good music wise things together, I'm
positive was good music. Which hadan album called Bongo Rock and a song
called Apache Should we should we listento that? Now? Uh? You
want to play it? I'm gonnaI want to. I want to listen.
(17:18):
I want to say, you're gonnarecognize it. Yeah, I think
you will because it's a very commonit's a very common beat. Uh so
find that and then find so first, first look for that bongo rock Apache.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying toread as little as possible, so
(17:40):
I don't see anything related here.Oh wow, that's wud all right,
it's a right off the bat.It's a familiar all right. Now,
I want you to look now forJames around. I got to move.
(18:03):
I can't remember the last time Ilisten to James Brown. And think of
the part where he's like, clapyour hands, stomp your feet, clap
your hands, stomp your feet,because that's the part that gets sampled.
I had to feel this is gonnabe so so think about those and uh
(18:30):
see, let's seem okay, let'ssay okay, good stuff. All right.
(18:52):
So so there is though a connectionhere that's important to because this in
order for this moment to happen,the Bongo Rock Apache by the incredible Bongo
band, that song needed to happen, or else maybe HRC wouldn't have had
(19:15):
this miraculous combination and everything else wouldhave happened. So we gotta go a
year before. Now we gotta goto nineteen seventy two. So in nineteen
seventy two, Now this is whereI really want you to start googling shit.
Okay, in nineteen seventy two amovie came out called The Thing with
Two Heads, So I first Iwanted you to google that and look at
(19:37):
the poster for a thingg with twoheads? With two heads? Yeah,
okay, they transplanted a white bigotshead onto us old brother's body. This
(20:03):
is the premise. I love this, I love I wish we would bring
back putting the whole damn movie ontothe post there, the whole thing.
But this this, the poster saysthe doctor Blewett the most fantastic medical experiment
of the age. And now withthe fights, the fuzz, the chicks
and the choppers bad, they're reallydeep trouble starring Ray Ray Millined and Rosie
(20:30):
Grew. Okay, so the movieitself looks fucking horrible, like they weren't
gonna care, but it looks alsolike a classic. Now I want to
see the goddamn thing. I thinkwe should. I think we should do
an annotated what was that? Whatwas that show with where you watched the
they watched the sci fi movie andthey talked about it. Yeah yeah,
yeah, now we should we shoulddefinitely do a mystery science theater story science
(20:52):
theater. Yeah yeah, okay,yeah, so something like that. But
anyway, so this movie still wentinto production and it needed a soundtrack.
Oh god. So mister Michael Viner, who I have no idea what he's
famous for, but he's a producer, so he gets to say he's a
producer and make a lot of money. And he's probably going to be a
(21:15):
music producer, which means I don'tplay instruments, but I see you're good
at it, and I have money, so I'm gonna put you places.
So that type of guy created this. He wanted to create a bongo band.
Now I'm not even sure if hehad the bongo players. I never
(21:37):
heard of a bongo band, tobe honest with you, well I didn't.
I mean they exist, but Ididn't know that. I didn't know
that. It was like something yougo to for me. I think you
may think I want bongo music,but I don't know how that came into
his head. But whatever, hesaw the chase scenes and he said,
I need a bongo band, andhe decided I did it to get he
(22:02):
decided to make one. I don'tknow if he told them I had I
want a bongo band and then hemade one like he didn't have the fucking
people before he said it he becauseit the way that it was delivered to
me when I when I heard thestory, it almost sounded like he said
he wanted this to happen before heeven had the people to make the bongo
band. Okay, I mean Icould see it. I've this is It's
(22:23):
funny because I've heard of I've heardof movie production kind of going this way
where like you know, you youinvite someone in, obviously you invite someone
into if you have an original soundtrack, they're producing the music after they start
seeing the movie. Sometimes I know, yeah, that part, yes,
But but it is funny. Itis funny how those decisions are made on
(22:45):
the fly. Because the one theone thing I know about this from the
one movie I've heard this spoken aboutis is actually from District nine because they
went to Go Yeah By one ofmy favorite movies ever. Because they went
to Go they shot the movie,they cut it together right, and then
(23:07):
the I forget they do the musicfor that movie. But they're they're they're
looking at it and they're like,okay, well I want it's set in
South Africa, and they're like,I want African drums in this movie,
right, And they keep trying it. They keep trying it, they keep
trying, and eventually they settle onnot having any African drums in the movie
at all because it's too difficult tosound mellow and not upbeat, which is
(23:29):
not really what the movie is about. So they so they so they bail
out on that. But it wasit was interesting to me that someone goes
with this guy feeling of like weshould have that, and then they try
and they're like, oh no,and then they have to go in a
completely different direction. Yeah. Imean again, it's like there are these
very interesting places where, like Ialways said, I'm just saying, it
would be crazy if this guy assembleda fucking bongo. But I don't know
(23:52):
a single person who plays the butt. Actually I know one person who might
play the bongos. Yeah, butif I if I get worked hard to
get that guy for wherever he isdown somewhere out there in the bubble fuck
world here to play the bongos.And then I was like, actually,
actually, I don't know if wecould do this well, upset with me.
(24:15):
It's interesting you mentioned that because here'swhat happened here. So he got
someone uh great name, King Harasson. I believe his name, so I
think it's King Yes from the Bahamas. So a very legendary bongo player from
(24:36):
the Bahamas who I think played withup. I mixed the Neils up Neil
Diamond, Neil Young. GE's oneof them, one of the Neils.
Uh, he's played with them.He's played with famous American artists too.
But he's a he's a prolific bongo. Apparently they're called bongaderos. So uh
no, prolific bungadero, all right, bungadero. That's good. He sound
(25:00):
he sounds like. He sounds likehe he sounds like he plays and carries
bongos in the same way that agrenadier carries weapons, right right, just
like at any moment, ready togo, ready to lay that bongo down.
Yeah, at a moment's notice.They could be classified as minute men.
Yeah, uh yeah, so minutebangs. So it's it looks like
(25:26):
he played for a motown, heplayed for the Jackson five, he played
for the Temptation. So this guy'sgot established, Okay, can you still
hear me? I heard the batterything? I can I can still hear
you? Okay, Okay, Sofamous guy, prolific bongo bongadero. So
then this other guy, Jim Gordon, who is a session music session drummer.
(25:48):
So they're like, okay, weneed bongos, but we can't just
have bongos. We need other percussiontoo. They put the session drummer.
A session drummer is someone who's likenot really for those who don't know,
not really part of a band,but will come to the studio to play
with just for the session recording andand then leave make their money. You
(26:11):
know, It's it's not easy job. You just get is you get gigs
here and there, playing in recordingsfor different artists who are recording a song.
So anyway, uh, King Arsonand Jim Gordon do and and I
guess some other folks who I forgot, but they are part of the incredible
bongo band and they release songs forthis they the big one being a Pacci
(26:37):
for this uh song for this movie. And on bongo rock, I think
bungo rock is the I forget ifit's a Pacci Bungo rock one of these
bongo heavy songs then is part ofthis film. So a few let me
tell you a few things. OneKing Arson didn't think much of this.
(27:00):
He thought, all right, it'she thought it was like a gig.
So he was offered by a Winteror Viner. He was offered by him,
so he did. They did play. It did make it to the
movie. That part happened, Buthe was offered by Viner royalties yea,
like a low percent, and heand the guys like pay me now,
Like I don't, I don't thinkthis happened. This happens all the time.
(27:22):
The most famous story about this isthe guy who played like I think
C three po Yeah, he turneddown. He turned down constant royalties for
the rest of his life. Andhe he only ever made like, you
know, maybe a couple hundred bucksoff of Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well,
no one expected this would become thatwould be sampled, probably the most
(27:45):
sampled song in hip hop. Noone knew it and no one even knew
it was gonna be like a single. It became a single after this movie
and like then and then Viner's like, we got to release a whole record,
so they release a record. Ithink it's a record that HRC actually
ends up using, so he doesn'tmake as much money as he could.
But anyway, he declined there wasonly one percent royalty. But still over
(28:08):
time, if you think he getsif if he gets royalty every single time,
you know that's a lot over time. The song has been sampled over
seven hundred times, meaning in sevenhundred individual songs, which means that that
doesn't count how many times those songsare played. That was just the original
songs that sample it. Who knowshow much that could be. Okay,
(28:32):
So the singles did so well theyreleased Bonga Rock, so Bonga Rock ends
up becoming so. I don't knowhow hrked. I don't know if he
saw the movie. I don't knowhow he heard about the song, but
he hears about it, and he'sjust got that good an ear that he's
like, I'm gonna put I'm gonnaput that together, and I'm gonna put
the legend James Brown together and it'sgonna sound fucking awesome. And it did.
(28:53):
Who wouldn't want to go see that? If you saw a poster for
that movie lying around the neighborhood,I'm positive you would show up to that.
Yes, I'm just saying, Idon't know if that poster necessarily made
it to the Bronx, but youknow, he's a music made it to
the that post. A version ofthat poster made it to the Fronx on
an index card. Maybe, Idon't know if it was the final version.
(29:15):
I remember as recent as going tosee a movie in Parkchester over ten
years just over ten years ago.I'm telling you I saw the man's hand
put the film in the reel soon the projector so we are not that
removed from some very low tech situationshere. But anyway, so that's the
(29:36):
backstory behind it. One other nuggetof information being Oh and Apache also got
sampled on what many considered to bethe first hip released hip hop song.
So let me let me back upa bit and say so after Cool or
HERK has this party, you know, people are releasing mixtapes and the whole
(29:57):
listen to my mixtape thing that startedlike now because people are like like it
was, Rap was not being releasedby a studio, by an industry,
by regular Rap is in completely undergroundright now. Rap is the hip hop
parties. Grandmaster Flash was attending theseparties. He's one of the first people
(30:18):
to be considered to aside from hertalking on the mic, he's one of
the first people that was considered toactually be rapping along, like intentionally rapping
while herk was playing his beats andin the in the music. So while
all this is going on, peopleare making mixtapes and they're passing around the
mixtape and rapping over it. Solike these underground mixtapes start now in the
(30:42):
mid seventies, in the late seventies, All right, sugar Hill Gang happens
and that rapper's Delight, you know, the hit, the hop, the
hit like that, Thus hip hop, Like that's when we more of a
start calling it hip hop. Actuallythat then becomes what's considered to be one
(31:07):
of the first released hip hop songsofficially on a on a level that's gonna
be played on radio and all ofthat. So this started a whole wave.
Yeah, So back to the lastpart of the story about Bongo Rock.
Yeah, Jim Gordon h had undiagnosedschizophrenia. The other drummer not not
(31:33):
the nice man, and he murderedsomebody. Okay, So that's so that's
the last connection to this whole thing, like like the guy in the video
I watched, who really, Idon't know how this guy did all this
reason he did like deep research.He was like, this story has everything.
He has you know, two headed, half bigoted monster. You know
(31:59):
what. You know what it's soundslike. Do you remember do you remember
Stefan from SNL. This club haseverything. It has Oscar the Grouch frocks,
it has Beyond Lights, it hasMurder, it has Bongo, it
has Apache for Apache like as everything. Anyway, that's what it sounded like.
(32:21):
So that happened. Uh, andyou know King Everson, he goes
back. He apparently toured with likeNeil Diamond right after this got released,
thinking all right, now I'm makingreal money. Yeah yeah, right,
he's definitely He's like, well,I guess that freaky ship was over.
That motherfucker's gonna kill somebody some day. Anyway, he's in the Bahamas.
(32:42):
Oh Jim Gordon, Jim Gordon,Yeah yeah, So all right, So
now one of the important things hereis that out of the studio, like
damn, that motherfucker was crazy.Damn that you ever see someone you ever
see someone home drumsticks like a likea fucking murder weapon. That's all.
That's all King could think about whenhe was watching this, the session drummer
(33:06):
doing his things like they say,they say they're killing it on the drums.
It takes out of different being.It is a future fucking murderer.
He's he's fucking talking to the snaredrum like it's a motherfucker wrong. It
reminds me, reminds me when Iwent to Planet Fitness and this guy who
must have just did a bit upstate. There's no way, there's no
way he didn't just come back fromdoing a nickel, all right, So
(33:30):
he comes back and on every benchpress he's yelling streaming the name Shayanne.
Who's my I have friend named Shane, so I couldn't wait to tell him
this story Jesus, because I'm like, did you know there's a guy locked
up? You might want You mightwant to you might want to take a
take a seat indoors for a littlewhile, maybe just maybe just outside for
a little bit. I was like, I don't think you've ever been to,
(33:52):
you know, been inside shay An. But some guy named Shaya clearly
has or put this dude there,because on every rep he went Shyanne shy,
So it like reminds me of likewith every fucking snare roll. He
was like my mother looking father orsomething, do to bag my wife,
(34:16):
Okay, something something like that.I don't know what happened anyway, And
then you know, King is justyou know, with good you know,
positive energy from the Bahamas looking atthis motherfucker like he better stay in the
(34:37):
session. I am getting the fuckout of here anyway. So uh,
this bongo rock uh starts a trend, a trend that leads all the way
to the sugar Hill Gang. Anduh, about seven years later, Rappers
(35:00):
Delight is released, so her comeshere. He is he has many people
do call him the godfather of hiphop. Now, as is the case
with many stories, you're always gonnahave someone that says, won't wait,
no, this happened earlier, orthis didn't. But from what we know
(35:22):
from the document from whatever documentation youcan get in ancillary to an index card
in the Bronx, I'm fifteen twentyCedric Avenue for Back to School Party.
This is it. This is thebest, This is the best record we
got. DJ Colherk on Cedric Avenue, August eleventh, nineteen seventy three.
(35:45):
It being August of twenty twenty three, it is officially fifty years later,
five decades later that hip hop wascreated here, and so let's talk about
you know, we could have awhole thing on the legacy, but to
keep it to New York, theBronx now has the International Museum of Hip
(36:07):
Hop, and that museum has theinitial turntable that DJ Cool Hirk used to
do the Merry Go Round. OhI forgot what else is part of hip
hop? Graffiti and break dancing.So break dancing happened during the breaks of
(36:30):
the song. Like I said,Herk would put the brakes on a loop
then dance during. Then that's howit became called break dancing. And what
I would hear from different cruises,like you would go from party to party
at once this all started. SoHerk also helped to create a style of
dance. So then then break dancerswould then compete against each other. It
(36:52):
would be like you know when theyhave these jokes where you think people are
gonna fight and it's my crew againstyours, but it's really just ants off.
That's that's what this was. Becausepeople would have their crews and it
would be the number one. Dudewould be called the A one and it
would be my, my A one. You'd roll up with your with your
(37:14):
crew and you're a you're A onewould come with their like you know,
their turf that they dance the shitout of and now that they're on your
turf. So like you know,Kingsbridge may go to Fordham and say,
all right, Kingsbridge A one versusfor Tom A one and then just you
know, in the middle of insteadof like the wall of death or whatever
(37:37):
it is in the in the metalshows, it's like, you know,
the wall of people in part orthey'd make circles and the A ones would
go at it for bragging rights crewagainst crew. So all this is happening
while the presumably while the DJ isgetting his next right. Well, no,
it's that's the thing. It neverstops now see that's the difference.
(37:59):
It used to stop, but nowherk got that ship on a loop.
So once it's time for just themerry ground, just the loops to happen,
it's just music. That's when wellthe fucking start breaking. Okay,
okay, so uh fifteen twenty CentricAvenue becomes a landmark thankfully it didn't get
(38:20):
torn down. Uh my avenue,I can say I live on what is
called hip hop Boulevard because it isthe historic avenue on which the genre was
created. And yeah, fifty yearslater, still going strong. Uh so
that is the story of DJ Coolhirkand the party that birthed an entire genre
(38:45):
of music. Oh and in twentyseventeen, hip hops are pasted rock as
the most popular genre. Wow,so not later in twenty seventeen that sounds
late, well because because it's us, But I think I think it's based
on universal downloads, so it's likei'd be I'd be understand in digging into
(39:08):
that statistic avoutage. I feel likeI feel like hip hopster passed rock and
log because the depth of rock isit's hell and fucking yeah, the death
of rock. But I think they'redoing it based on entirely based on streams.
Uh So, I guess you know, you know the bo when when
the Boomers started using their iPods,streams definitely went up and probably gave it
(39:32):
a run for its money for awhile. But yeah, wow, well
there you go. So here weare five decades later, and it was
declared dead by nas and it wasdeclare it was declared dead by NABS.
But but but in more of ametaphoric sense, and that the hip hop
(39:52):
he knew. You know, he'snot the only one. There are other
people who think the same thing becausethey listened to what some people consider mumble
rap. Has been said about mumborap. Yeah, you know, mumble
rap? What what is hip hop? Now? Basically pop music? Like
is it hip hop and pop andR and B just fused together to one
(40:15):
thing now? And that's basically everythingwe release, at least on popular radio.
So lots of debates to be had, but we know at least the
party happened and something revolutionary happened onthat night. Yeah yeah, very cool,
Yeah, very cool. Wow.So how I mean? I see
(40:37):
I went to his Wikipedia page.I see he's still alive. Yep,
that's good. He goes back tohe's he's local, he still goes to
the Bronx a lot to ask heprobably still has a crib in the Bronx
and he and he definitely is.He probably spends most of his time here.
And I I was I was gonnaask what what kind of I was
(41:01):
gonna ask what kind of what kindof influence he continues to have on or
if he's involved with any any anythingmodern that we'd hear on on like Top
forty Hits or anything like that.Well, what he's very involved in,
like, uh, to be asacademic as possible us. He's a steward
(41:22):
of the industry, you know,he's very involved in continuing the legacy,
the history, the roots of itthat. You know, how did it
start? The notion that for avery long time, people weren't even using
records like this, Like it wasunheard of to be having two turntables together
(41:43):
to like take parts of songs andput them together like that. We consider
it simple now. Hannibal Burrus actuallyhas a funny skit of how hip hop
was created, and but as funnyas it is, it's like people just
weren't doing that ship then it wasyou listen to a whole disco record the
whole way through. You don't takea record and then just take parts of
(42:06):
it and then take other parts andthen people dance to it and then you
talk over it. But it's makinglike a whole production. It's it's taking
your You're you're sampling. You're notjust sampling different songs. You're sampling rhythms,
and you're like, you're you're insteadof it being like one long stream
(42:28):
of music, you're like taking thebest of different things and putting it together,
and you're putting it through a productionsystem. You're not just letting it
all mesh out live. So there'she's you know, when it comes to
like the technical aspects and his storicalaspects, he is very involved. He's
very involved in documentaries. He's alwaysbeen affiliated with Grandmaster Flash, uh,
(42:53):
sugar Hill, you know, MChammer, a lot of the early really
pioneers. But he's not like formallyreleasing music now that I know of he's
he's you know, continuing to passon his status of the godfather of hip
(43:15):
hop and making sure that its rootsare known. Very cool, Yeah,
very cool. This is a goodone. Yep. Yeah it was good.
And that's what I was like,I just want to get this one
in before August ends, because yeah, you were texting me, You're like,
(43:37):
well, while still August, Igotta do this. I was like,
fun, man, that's that's todaytomorrow. I know I couldn't in
good conscious release this in September.Uh, so I wanted it to be
in in August, while it's stilltechnically fifty years to the month at least.
But but yeah, and his sister, by the way, is considered
(43:58):
like one of the very first hiphop promoters, very first club promoters.
So like, you know, wethink of DJ Khaled as always a hype
man and Flavor Flavor as a hypeman, and yes they were affiliated with
groups and DJs in production, butshe's the real first type person was a
hype woman. And even the peoplewho wanted Grandmaster Flashes the message another one
(44:25):
of the very first hip hop songsto be released, that was a woman
who really wanted it to get outthere because it had political messages to it,
and that was one of the firstpolitically motivated hip hop songs to get
out and she was like, thiswas shortly after Rapper's Delight, and she
said, you know, I don'tcare. The world needs this right now
(44:50):
and they need you to release this. And even though it's Grandmaster Flash,
it's actually only one member of GrandmasterFlash, DJ Meli mel and I believe
the other man rapping on it.And like the guy in the video said,
one of the best names of alltime, Duke Booty, Oh my
god, is the other man rappingon the message? I mean, who's
(45:15):
not going to listen to a guynamed Duke Footy. I'd listen to that
message all day. And you aduke, Yes of booty, that's right,
an earl of body, Uh yeah, earl of Sandwich, Duke of
booty. Huh yeah. So allstarted with a little index card. And
(45:44):
that, by the way, that'show the jobs I applyed to That's how
I apply on a little index card. That's that's how they that's how they
post these things. They post thesethings on little index cards and Microsoft paint.
This might this might be the onlytime I've heard of HTML. I'm
happy to see an index card dosomething other than help me fail a Spanish
(46:05):
test. Yeah, I mean,it's it's just so funny when you look
you could look up I was justgonna say, you could look up the
the index card. It's just sofunny that there is a Yeah, so
we inex card. We we dostill have it right, like it like
it's it's I'm assuming it's a museum. It's it's probably in the museum.
(46:29):
There's a photo of it at somepoint. Uh, But it's just an
index card. That says where thejust look at DJ Cool her hip Hop
Party index card and that's Cindy there. It is made the index card.
That's a handful of them. Anduh oh yeah the other part of it,
you know, twenty five cents forladies, fifty cents for fellas there
(46:52):
it is, uh some economics there, Uh special guest Coco, Cindy c
Clark K and Timmy Tindy his sister. Yeah, very cool, very very
(47:13):
cool. So it's all it's allunder the umbrella of hip hop, you
know, from rappers The Lights,sugar Hill Gang to hose Mad and Love
No Thoughties Chief Keith, so allfrom the same origin, even if it
went in different ways. I wishwe've made enough money off of this to
(47:34):
license some song to play us out. But yeah, you just have to
imagine it. Switch to the musicapp on your phone real quick, right
now. Yeah, listen to hoseMad because isn't it And well, no,
this is the one that I wouldalways get like before Rick Roll became
a thing. It was either beforeRick Roll would around the same time.
(47:55):
But there's a song called Everybody Lovesa Pimp by Slimp Duck and it just
starts everybody loves a pump and itjust starts like that, and it's so
funny. And I would tell Willie, my friend that, like in the
middle of baio on, my littlefat ass iPad iPod should say or his
(48:17):
fat ass zoon that he used touse. Kids could look at that up
in Wikipedia. That I'd be like, oh, yeah, you know,
now, let's just drop this newjoint or red hot chili peppers a back
with the new ship. And thenhe was like, okay, and I
put the earphones in. I'm juston full blasted here. Everybody loves a
(48:40):
pomp and that it became nug.If you buck, then now it's nuck.
If you buck, there would beno knuck if you buck, if
there wasn't if dj if Djork didnot nook, the world would not have
(49:04):
booked. That's right, that's right. So that's it. We learned.
Unlike other times where we could saywe didn't learn much, we learned a
lot. We did. This wasinformative. This is very good. I
feel like I feel like I havea greater understanding of the world as opposed
to as opposed to the world.According to Lawrence ray No, I think
(49:29):
I think that taught me a fewthings about the world also, but just
things I didn't want to know.And I feel like a time where I
didn't learn anything was the was theSeleno and Barnes episode. It's just like,
what's the takeaway? Not mine?Really, I just lawyers being lawyers,
Lawyers being lawyers. Don't don't advertiseon TV. If you can't fucking
you can't fucking hang man. LarryRay says, no, I invented hip
(49:52):
hop, and then and then hetakes like a fucking index card out of
his pocket and it's like fifty centcropped next him saying, look, here's
I do. Uh if a small, small anecdote, we've other we've wept
main episode content. I just wantto say that sometime over the past two
weeks, Even and I were sittingin a uh in an Xbox lobby,
(50:15):
just shooting the ship while we've gotour respective game set up, and I
read the news about Rudy Giuliani headingdown to Georgia without representation because the closest
he can't find anyone and account ofsomehow being cash poor, and he made
made the trip of someone very special. So if I can dig up the
video that I recorded of me discoveringwho that is. I will send it
(50:35):
to Evan to put oh wait,you recorded it. I recorded it.
I will put that. I willsend that to Evan to put us a
footnote on the footnote on this episode, Like the reaction when you realize Bernard
krag is actually in the documentary.Yeah, like you're like, wait,
he's here, he's credited, andhe's still around, and he's still kicking.
(50:55):
He's still Karragan. He's still around, He's still he's still he's he's
still burning. I mean, thefact that he is more sane than either
of these fucks at this point,the disgrace New York City Police commissioner.
It's still, at this point ina more sane position than fucking Rudolph Truliani
(51:15):
or Larry Ray, who we're soongoing to be eating, you know,
jello with a spork are is quiteludicrous. I hope it. I hope
it reached Larry Ray in prison.The news that Karrick is still out there
and somehow fucking relevant today. Yeah, but he's out there, He's not
Larry's not. I know, it'sincredible, after all this shit, after
(51:42):
all this shit, Larry Waite puthimself away after years and years of paranoia.
It had nothing to do with fornot Karrick. It was none other
than Lawrence Ray, who was LawrenceRay's worst enemy. Fistfuls of adderall will
(52:04):
do that to you, I guessanyway, all right, we'll get off
topic. This is very good,very good. Happy Birthday hip Hop,
Happy Birthday Cedric Avenue. I'm sure. I'm sure Cedric was a long long
time before that, but it certainlydidn't have relevance until DJ Coolhark rolled the
fuck up, lifted some weights,slap two discs together, and said,
(52:29):
bongos and James Brown, it's gonnalast fifty more years. Yeah, I'll
find that next tape now, allright, see you guys next time.
Peace hout y'all,
You're listening to the prowlig Whatever AllThings Broke Network. Uh, this is
a New York history podcast that happensevery so often where I I'm just gonna
go with the greatest hits because Ididn't have time to think of anything.
Man who has debt Rental Affordable Housing, owner of Wildcat Evan Mastrenardi reads a
(00:25):
story of New York history to hiscousin Chris, who has no idea what
the story to be about, noidea what the story is going to be
about. Even that's the street isthat you'll never know, you do know,
and then I don't know. Yeah, you both know. It's not
supposed to happen. It's like,you know, I've been wanting to say
this all day. Nineteen nineteen twothousand, the year of our Lord Optimus
(00:51):
Prime, or the guy who's filmingturns the camera on himself in Jubilee from
begin there will be no tables ladder'schairs here, gentlemen, there's pro bono
thirteenth century Gregorian chances. He keepsclaiming he's been poisoned, Yes, by
(01:15):
the fist fucking at all that youtake, because port there's a McDonald's University
His decision to a list was quotea primal compulsions exclamation. Boy, Yes,
Steve, you may have the mob, but I got the city.
Have you ever met your ex wife? Because Sarah exhausted Alexander Graham cell number.
(01:45):
I don't talk to Gallardo five timesa day. He's got my fucking
house. He LARPs like, hey, just say no promer marine fan Kosovo,
help of the former MYPD commissioner injail, and now I'm being hunted
by him. How are you doing, I'm saying on your daughter's couch.
Kick is credited in this silk.I am looking at the official Wikipedia page
(02:07):
for him university. Well, itwas only a matter of time before we
put these two things together. Ihad another drink in the airport on the
way back, but after that Iwas I was pretty good, pumped through
a fucking ivy. That's right.The gays got to him. Yeah,
yeah, the gays bud Lights.I could you just imagine like the notion
(02:32):
of like this game Afia like huddledaround just like bottles and bottles of bud
Light, just trying to like indoctrinateus to become trans trying to intrinate the
fucking CEO of annahzer Bush, Yes, of Anna eiser Busch, who clearly
cares of course cares nothing about money. So it's it's just it's since since
(02:53):
went out the window a long timeago. Uh. Anyway, ships and
rainbows, it is, let's beginand uh nineteen seventy three the air.
Actually wait, no, we're gonnastart earlier. I forgot nineteen fifty five,
(03:15):
April sixteenth, nineteen fifty five yearof our Lord m C Jatown and
uh absolutely hitting us with the withthe classics. Yeah and MC. It
will be because Clive Campbell was bornin Kingston, Jamaica, Keith and Netti
(03:40):
Campbell. So while growing up thisis Kingston, Jamaica, Jamaica, not
Kingston, jama not to make anot to make a queen's where I'm sure
there is a kingstate community as well. Uh no, not where our Lord
JFK has touched down, the actualKingston, Jamaica. We we can't leave
(04:00):
anything well enough alone. No wecan't. It's it's the same guy name
in half of this country. Uh. So growing up Clive, when he
was a young lad, he sawall these sound systems, uh in his
neighborhood and Jamaica and in Jamaica.You know they called him dance halls.
Dance halls or how that genre aform of regga, usually a faster form
(04:23):
that that people are really getting buckedtoo. Yeah, call is called dance
hall. It's a different kind ofwhat's the what's the what's the dance called
with the when you're dad on thewhen you're pond jack pondafloor daddy XC yes
jack jack knifing or daggering, daggeringwhen you'd like jump from different heights onto
(04:46):
the awaiting we'll call partner. Yeah, damsel who is inviting you or sometimes
not inviting you. You should notdo that's not convincedentsual and it can yield
and a hernias and lower back paint. So uh was that a story?
Oh, I've seen many daggering failsand not. It's not a safe thing
(05:08):
to do to jump on top oflike from like eight speakers down onto someone
for yourself or the partner. No, but it's it's it's different. It's
different when there's a person when whenshe's on her back on the floor legs
akimbo waiting for you. Yeah,she's not. If she's not doing that,
it's not daggering. You could,yes, but you could still miss
(05:30):
this has occurred, Okay, itdoesn't. This doesn't always have like a
perfect Olympic fucking daggering landing. Okay, right And anyway, So he grew
up here and seeing the sound andthen the next Olympic sport uh and in
the dance halls uh. And hebecame fascinated with this. And he also
(05:55):
game fascinated with the fact that anddancils sometimes people would speak over the music
and it would become something called toasting, where you would speak over the beats
while people were dancing. It didn'tjust mean it was like a toast at
a wedding. It was the namefor your talking over while people are dancing.
So he remembered all of this,some foreshadowing Kire. He remembered all
(06:17):
of this in his mind, allthese interests as he emigrated with his family
at the age of twelve to noneother than the BX, my hometown,
Bronx, New York. And inNovember nineteen sixty seven he touched down at
fifteen twenty Sedgwick Avenue, taken allthat from Jamaica to Sedgwick, which happens
(06:46):
to be the street that you boyalso grew up on. It's a very
long long street. So now he'sattending alfredy Smith High School and he starts
to spend a lot of time inthe weight room, and he was also
with his friends trying to you know, create his own music. He would
he would DJ. They may notalways called it djaying like something. The
(07:11):
term DJing was around then, butit wasn't necessarily you'll see this is foreshadowing
again what later on is. ButDJ's at the time were considered a lot
of times people who facilitated the clubs, the disco clubs and played the music
there, and also the person whowas on the radio who would play music.
(07:33):
Sure, but he was starting touh try to mess around with different
turntables, and he finally got hisown, and the combination of him playing
uh whenever wherever he could at differentparties, and him hitting the weight room
and just his suave, motherfucking naturegave him the name DJ cool herk ringing
(08:01):
a bell yet, Nope, nope, okay, that's fine, it's better
this way. That's why it works. Okay, Now we're we're extremely I
mean from the from the dance hallmusic puts this extremely far out of my
elements for sure. Well, it'sgonna get closer and closer. So perfect.
So he's going to clubs and playingas he can, but he hasn't
(08:26):
yet really gotten a huge party yet. And but he's getting he's becoming well
known in the neighborhood. So thenat one at one point, uh Herk
has a sister, Cindy, andCindy and Hirk decide that they want to
help. They want to throw aparty. So this is why I want
(08:50):
to do this. In August.On August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
Hurrican and Cindy through in the reckroom of twenty Sedric Avenue, a party
that many will consider to be thebirth of hip hop. Wow and uh
(09:13):
so so so toasting turned into yeah, exactly. You see where it's it's
coming into so interesting on a littleindex card. It's so funny that someone
kept it. It showed the initialflyer for this. They were like,
we didn't have like, they didn'thave fucking Microsoft paint, they didn't have
word processing, they didn't have alltheir ship but that that has definitely become
(09:37):
its own art form. If youwalk around to the Bronx Long enough you
can spot these, just just incase we happen to get a listener someday
who has never been to the Bronx. You can if you walk around the
Bronx long enough, you can getthese like block party posters on lad posts
and stuff with like the quite possiblynew worst photoshop job and sign arrangement you've
(10:01):
ever seen. But but you youwill know if there is a person attending
it. You will know because everysingle name of every every musician attending will
manage to find by eleven and largeaerial font typed on a Beta max.
It'll just be He'll just be there. Honestly, God, it was probably
(10:22):
printed on the library filmed with atoaster. Uh yeah, it may It
may have been, because that's howfar back our libraries are. It probably
still has the same technological capacity aswhen herk went to the libraries. Laser
la jet printers, yeah, laserjet printers, major major laser printing while
daggering at the same time. Soon this now very famous index card you
(10:50):
see you know it shows where it'son fifteen twenty Centric Avenue. It's when
it's August eleventh, nineteen seventy three. It's from nine pm to four am,
which in high school. I don'tknow if a lot of parents,
because everybody's got to see this ship. I wasn't. I wasn't following exactly
(11:11):
with the dates. So he wasborn in fifty five, now seventy three,
so that he is still a teenager. Then, yeah he's psil Atina.
He's he's seven. So they're inhigh school and then hosting this.
Yeah, they're they're finishing high school. This is going to be a back
to school party for I believe hissenior year. Yeah, what a what
a way do you have? Doyou ever? Have you ever celebrated so
(11:33):
hard you invent a new genre ofview? Hey? What what did you
do? Bro? We went toCabo? Yeah, I invented a whole
fucking genre that is a lot fiftyyears later and and has birthed billions upon
billions of dollars. Brilliant. Butwe fucking got we drank out of our
ass. It's like, all right, all right, Connor, enjoy enjoy,
(11:58):
enjoy too. Juanna. Connor's doingbody shots, dude, Yes,
really really body shots. So it'sI mean, this isn't the reck room
of his parents' building, So it'sinteresting I'm like, did they know the
four am part was there? Because, like, I don't know about parents,
most parents wouldn't like want Randalls tobe cut. At first, I
(12:22):
thought it was actually in the apartment, and I'm sure the apartment was still
open for things, so I know, if I'm his mom, I'm like,
who did you consult to schedule thistime phrase? Because it clearly was
not me. But but she's stillin the kitchen, he told him and
his sister telling the story that thatshe's in the kitchen. I think of
the reck room too, making foodbut also monitoring everyone to make sure they
(12:43):
don't act a fool and go crazy. Is this Is this like a tremendous
fucking party by the time it actuallyhappens, So he says he doesn't even
know how many people showed up.So I mean, we know that it
got big enough that they had toleave the rec room and then go across
the street into a park at somepoint. I think inside it got close
(13:07):
to fifty people, which it certainlyin a Bronx apartment would mean I am
standing on people in a rec room. I could see that still being a
shit time, but a rec roomis still a lot when you have to
think that Herk got the equipment,he got all his DJ stuff, he
got speakers, he got a Therewas a picture I think, I think
it was of him at the timeor one of his friends driving his equipment
(13:30):
in a Cadillac and a big convertibleand it was just these it looked like
ten foot long towers that are justpopping out of the back of this car.
Like I kind of yeah, it'skind of amazing that he was able
to get his hands on all thisequipment at seventeen or whatever, you know,
And I'm sure you know he brokeit. Her deal, he broke
(13:52):
it. He broke it. Adeal on the block must have. I
mean, he had he was hewas fascinated with this and he had a
he had a dream, so soHerc. Also, he didn't like disco.
This was a big thing. Hedid not like disco. Disco was
very big during the seventies. Sohe wanted to focus on funk and soul
(14:13):
like Rufus and Shaka Khan and JamesBrown, and he wanted to start making
sounds and instead of having parties withdisco like most people were doing in the
city, he wanted to put thistogether. So what he ended up doing
at first was he was noticing thatbefore when he would just the dj as
(14:35):
and he was playing the songs,he wasn't doing anything really yet. He
was noticing that during the time whenthere was just a musical break they just
called this, you know, thebreak, people would dance the most.
And he was like, well,what if I took just the breaks and
(14:56):
I connected them in a loop.So I'm not gonna have one turntable,
I'm gonna have two, and he'sgonna play one break from the song and
then play it again on the otherand then go back and forth and back
and forth. So it just createsone continuous loop that he then ended up
dubbing the Merry Go Round. Soat the party he debuts this and people
(15:22):
are like going crazy. Yeah,They're like, oh shit, it's the
same thing again and again, andit's just not fucking stopping. And it's
like, this is like when weconsider remixes and clubs now that are dance
heavy, this is what does theselong musical breaks. The beats are what
people are really dancing too. It'snot just the singing. And then Kark
(15:43):
said, wait a second, Icould go crazy. If I got two
turntables, why does it even needto be the same song. So then
he started taking breaks from one songand putting it with another song, thus
creating what many considered to be theand he would talk over that too,
(16:03):
sometimes, thus creating what many peoplemay consider the first time sampling ever happened.
Yeah, he created go ahead,do we know? Do we know?
What? What? What? What? The first what? The first
few songs were okay, so letme get to that. Uh now so
(16:30):
this, uh, this is whatis very This story could have been its
own, but I decided to includeit in this. Yeah. So it
was a combination. At least twoparts of it were a combination between uh,
James Brown and the incredible bongo bandMichael Viner's incredible bongo band. I'm
(16:57):
gonna tell you right now that Idon't know who the fuck that is,
but I'm positive this was. Thiswas good music wise things together, I'm
positive was good music. Which hadan album called Bongo Rock and a song
called Apache Should we should we listento that? Now? Uh? You
want to play it? I'm gonnaI want to. I want to listen.
(17:18):
I want to say, you're gonnarecognize it. Yeah, I think
you will because it's a very commonit's a very common beat. Uh so
find that and then find so first, first look for that bongo rock Apache.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying toread as little as possible, so
(17:40):
I don't see anything related here.Oh wow, that's wud all right,
it's a right off the bat.It's a familiar all right. Now,
I want you to look now forJames around. I got to move.
(18:03):
I can't remember the last time Ilisten to James Brown. And think of
the part where he's like, clapyour hands, stomp your feet, clap
your hands, stomp your feet,because that's the part that gets sampled.
I had to feel this is gonnabe so so think about those and uh
(18:30):
see, let's seem okay, let'ssay okay, good stuff. All right.
(18:52):
So so there is though a connectionhere that's important to because this in
order for this moment to happen,the Bongo Rock Apache by the incredible Bongo
band, that song needed to happen, or else maybe HRC wouldn't have had
(19:15):
this miraculous combination and everything else wouldhave happened. So we gotta go a
year before. Now we gotta goto nineteen seventy two. So in nineteen
seventy two, Now this is whereI really want you to start googling shit.
Okay, in nineteen seventy two amovie came out called The Thing with
Two Heads, So I first Iwanted you to google that and look at
(19:37):
the poster for a thingg with twoheads? With two heads? Yeah,
okay, they transplanted a white bigotshead onto us old brother's body. This
(20:03):
is the premise. I love this, I love I wish we would bring
back putting the whole damn movie ontothe post there, the whole thing.
But this this, the poster saysthe doctor Blewett the most fantastic medical experiment
of the age. And now withthe fights, the fuzz, the chicks
and the choppers bad, they're reallydeep trouble starring Ray Ray Millined and Rosie
(20:30):
Grew. Okay, so the movieitself looks fucking horrible, like they weren't
gonna care, but it looks alsolike a classic. Now I want to
see the goddamn thing. I thinkwe should. I think we should do
an annotated what was that? Whatwas that show with where you watched the
they watched the sci fi movie andthey talked about it. Yeah yeah,
yeah, now we should we shoulddefinitely do a mystery science theater story science
(20:52):
theater. Yeah yeah, okay,yeah, so something like that. But
anyway, so this movie still wentinto production and it needed a soundtrack.
Oh god. So mister Michael Viner, who I have no idea what he's
famous for, but he's a producer, so he gets to say he's a
producer and make a lot of money. And he's probably going to be a
(21:15):
music producer, which means I don'tplay instruments, but I see you're good
at it, and I have money, so I'm gonna put you places.
So that type of guy created this. He wanted to create a bongo band.
Now I'm not even sure if hehad the bongo players. I never
(21:37):
heard of a bongo band, tobe honest with you, well I didn't.
I mean they exist, but Ididn't know that. I didn't know
that. It was like something yougo to for me. I think you
may think I want bongo music,but I don't know how that came into
his head. But whatever, hesaw the chase scenes and he said,
I need a bongo band, andhe decided I did it to get he
(22:02):
decided to make one. I don'tknow if he told them I had I
want a bongo band and then hemade one like he didn't have the fucking
people before he said it he becauseit the way that it was delivered to
me when I when I heard thestory, it almost sounded like he said
he wanted this to happen before heeven had the people to make the bongo
band. Okay, I mean Icould see it. I've this is It's
(22:23):
funny because I've heard of I've heardof movie production kind of going this way
where like you know, you youinvite someone in, obviously you invite someone
into if you have an original soundtrack, they're producing the music after they start
seeing the movie. Sometimes I know, yeah, that part, yes,
But but it is funny. Itis funny how those decisions are made on
(22:45):
the fly. Because the one theone thing I know about this from the
one movie I've heard this spoken aboutis is actually from District nine because they
went to Go Yeah By one ofmy favorite movies ever. Because they went
to Go they shot the movie,they cut it together right, and then
(23:07):
the I forget they do the musicfor that movie. But they're they're they're
looking at it and they're like,okay, well I want it's set in
South Africa, and they're like,I want African drums in this movie,
right, And they keep trying it. They keep trying it, they keep
trying, and eventually they settle onnot having any African drums in the movie
at all because it's too difficult tosound mellow and not upbeat, which is
(23:29):
not really what the movie is about. So they so they so they bail
out on that. But it wasit was interesting to me that someone goes
with this guy feeling of like weshould have that, and then they try
and they're like, oh no,and then they have to go in a
completely different direction. Yeah. Imean again, it's like there are these
very interesting places where, like Ialways said, I'm just saying, it
would be crazy if this guy assembleda fucking bongo. But I don't know
(23:52):
a single person who plays the butt. Actually I know one person who might
play the bongos. Yeah, butif I if I get worked hard to
get that guy for wherever he isdown somewhere out there in the bubble fuck
world here to play the bongos.And then I was like, actually,
actually, I don't know if wecould do this well, upset with me.
(24:15):
It's interesting you mentioned that because here'swhat happened here. So he got
someone uh great name, King Harasson. I believe his name, so I
think it's King Yes from the Bahamas. So a very legendary bongo player from
(24:36):
the Bahamas who I think played withup. I mixed the Neils up Neil
Diamond, Neil Young. GE's oneof them, one of the Neils.
Uh, he's played with them.He's played with famous American artists too.
But he's a he's a prolific bongo. Apparently they're called bongaderos. So uh
no, prolific bungadero, all right, bungadero. That's good. He sound
(25:00):
he sounds like. He sounds likehe he sounds like he plays and carries
bongos in the same way that agrenadier carries weapons, right right, just
like at any moment, ready togo, ready to lay that bongo down.
Yeah, at a moment's notice.They could be classified as minute men.
Yeah, uh yeah, so minutebangs. So it's it looks like
(25:26):
he played for a motown, heplayed for the Jackson five, he played
for the Temptation. So this guy'sgot established, Okay, can you still
hear me? I heard the batterything? I can I can still hear
you? Okay, Okay, Sofamous guy, prolific bongo bongadero. So
then this other guy, Jim Gordon, who is a session music session drummer.
(25:48):
So they're like, okay, weneed bongos, but we can't just
have bongos. We need other percussiontoo. They put the session drummer.
A session drummer is someone who's likenot really for those who don't know,
not really part of a band,but will come to the studio to play
with just for the session recording andand then leave make their money. You
(26:11):
know, It's it's not easy job. You just get is you get gigs
here and there, playing in recordingsfor different artists who are recording a song.
So anyway, uh, King Arsonand Jim Gordon do and and I
guess some other folks who I forgot, but they are part of the incredible
bongo band and they release songs forthis they the big one being a Pacci
(26:37):
for this uh song for this movie. And on bongo rock, I think
bungo rock is the I forget ifit's a Pacci Bungo rock one of these
bongo heavy songs then is part ofthis film. So a few let me
tell you a few things. OneKing Arson didn't think much of this.
(27:00):
He thought, all right, it'she thought it was like a gig.
So he was offered by a Winteror Viner. He was offered by him,
so he did. They did play. It did make it to the
movie. That part happened, Buthe was offered by Viner royalties yea,
like a low percent, and heand the guys like pay me now,
Like I don't, I don't thinkthis happened. This happens all the time.
(27:22):
The most famous story about this isthe guy who played like I think
C three po Yeah, he turneddown. He turned down constant royalties for
the rest of his life. Andhe he only ever made like, you
know, maybe a couple hundred bucksoff of Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well,
no one expected this would become thatwould be sampled, probably the most
(27:45):
sampled song in hip hop. Noone knew it and no one even knew
it was gonna be like a single. It became a single after this movie
and like then and then Viner's like, we got to release a whole record,
so they release a record. Ithink it's a record that HRC actually
ends up using, so he doesn'tmake as much money as he could.
But anyway, he declined there wasonly one percent royalty. But still over
(28:08):
time, if you think he getsif if he gets royalty every single time,
you know that's a lot over time. The song has been sampled over
seven hundred times, meaning in sevenhundred individual songs, which means that that
doesn't count how many times those songsare played. That was just the original
songs that sample it. Who knowshow much that could be. Okay,
(28:32):
So the singles did so well theyreleased Bonga Rock, so Bonga Rock ends
up becoming so. I don't knowhow hrked. I don't know if he
saw the movie. I don't knowhow he heard about the song, but
he hears about it, and he'sjust got that good an ear that he's
like, I'm gonna put I'm gonnaput that together, and I'm gonna put
the legend James Brown together and it'sgonna sound fucking awesome. And it did.
(28:53):
Who wouldn't want to go see that? If you saw a poster for
that movie lying around the neighborhood,I'm positive you would show up to that.
Yes, I'm just saying, Idon't know if that poster necessarily made
it to the Bronx, but youknow, he's a music made it to
the that post. A version ofthat poster made it to the Fronx on
an index card. Maybe, Idon't know if it was the final version.
(29:15):
I remember as recent as going tosee a movie in Parkchester over ten
years just over ten years ago.I'm telling you I saw the man's hand
put the film in the reel soon the projector so we are not that
removed from some very low tech situationshere. But anyway, so that's the
(29:36):
backstory behind it. One other nuggetof information being Oh and Apache also got
sampled on what many considered to bethe first hip released hip hop song.
So let me let me back upa bit and say so after Cool or
HERK has this party, you know, people are releasing mixtapes and the whole
(29:57):
listen to my mixtape thing that startedlike now because people are like like it
was, Rap was not being releasedby a studio, by an industry,
by regular Rap is in completely undergroundright now. Rap is the hip hop
parties. Grandmaster Flash was attending theseparties. He's one of the first people
(30:18):
to be considered to aside from hertalking on the mic, he's one of
the first people that was considered toactually be rapping along, like intentionally rapping
while herk was playing his beats andin the in the music. So while
all this is going on, peopleare making mixtapes and they're passing around the
mixtape and rapping over it. Solike these underground mixtapes start now in the
(30:42):
mid seventies, in the late seventies, All right, sugar Hill Gang happens
and that rapper's Delight, you know, the hit, the hop, the
hit like that, Thus hip hop, Like that's when we more of a
start calling it hip hop. Actuallythat then becomes what's considered to be one
(31:07):
of the first released hip hop songsofficially on a on a level that's gonna
be played on radio and all ofthat. So this started a whole wave.
Yeah, So back to the lastpart of the story about Bongo Rock.
Yeah, Jim Gordon h had undiagnosedschizophrenia. The other drummer not not
(31:33):
the nice man, and he murderedsomebody. Okay, So that's so that's
the last connection to this whole thing, like like the guy in the video
I watched, who really, Idon't know how this guy did all this
reason he did like deep research.He was like, this story has everything.
He has you know, two headed, half bigoted monster. You know
(31:59):
what. You know what it's soundslike. Do you remember do you remember
Stefan from SNL. This club haseverything. It has Oscar the Grouch frocks,
it has Beyond Lights, it hasMurder, it has Bongo, it
has Apache for Apache like as everything. Anyway, that's what it sounded like.
(32:21):
So that happened. Uh, andyou know King Everson, he goes
back. He apparently toured with likeNeil Diamond right after this got released,
thinking all right, now I'm makingreal money. Yeah yeah, right,
he's definitely He's like, well,I guess that freaky ship was over.
That motherfucker's gonna kill somebody some day. Anyway, he's in the Bahamas.
(32:42):
Oh Jim Gordon, Jim Gordon,Yeah yeah, So all right, So
now one of the important things hereis that out of the studio, like
damn, that motherfucker was crazy.Damn that you ever see someone you ever
see someone home drumsticks like a likea fucking murder weapon. That's all.
That's all King could think about whenhe was watching this, the session drummer
(33:06):
doing his things like they say,they say they're killing it on the drums.
It takes out of different being.It is a future fucking murderer.
He's he's fucking talking to the snaredrum like it's a motherfucker wrong. It
reminds me, reminds me when Iwent to Planet Fitness and this guy who
must have just did a bit upstate. There's no way, there's no
way he didn't just come back fromdoing a nickel, all right, So
(33:30):
he comes back and on every benchpress he's yelling streaming the name Shayanne.
Who's my I have friend named Shane, so I couldn't wait to tell him
this story Jesus, because I'm like, did you know there's a guy locked
up? You might want You mightwant to you might want to take a
take a seat indoors for a littlewhile, maybe just maybe just outside for
a little bit. I was like, I don't think you've ever been to,
(33:52):
you know, been inside shay An. But some guy named Shaya clearly
has or put this dude there,because on every rep he went Shyanne shy,
So it like reminds me of likewith every fucking snare roll. He
was like my mother looking father orsomething, do to bag my wife,
(34:16):
Okay, something something like that.I don't know what happened anyway, And
then you know, King is justyou know, with good you know,
positive energy from the Bahamas looking atthis motherfucker like he better stay in the
(34:37):
session. I am getting the fuckout of here anyway. So uh,
this bongo rock uh starts a trend, a trend that leads all the way
to the sugar Hill Gang. Anduh, about seven years later, Rappers
(35:00):
Delight is released, so her comeshere. He is he has many people
do call him the godfather of hiphop. Now, as is the case
with many stories, you're always gonnahave someone that says, won't wait,
no, this happened earlier, orthis didn't. But from what we know
(35:22):
from the document from whatever documentation youcan get in ancillary to an index card
in the Bronx, I'm fifteen twentyCedric Avenue for Back to School Party.
This is it. This is thebest, This is the best record we
got. DJ Colherk on Cedric Avenue, August eleventh, nineteen seventy three.
(35:45):
It being August of twenty twenty three, it is officially fifty years later,
five decades later that hip hop wascreated here, and so let's talk about
you know, we could have awhole thing on the legacy, but to
keep it to New York, theBronx now has the International Museum of Hip
(36:07):
Hop, and that museum has theinitial turntable that DJ Cool Hirk used to
do the Merry Go Round. OhI forgot what else is part of hip
hop? Graffiti and break dancing.So break dancing happened during the breaks of
(36:30):
the song. Like I said,Herk would put the brakes on a loop
then dance during. Then that's howit became called break dancing. And what
I would hear from different cruises,like you would go from party to party
at once this all started. SoHerk also helped to create a style of
dance. So then then break dancerswould then compete against each other. It
(36:52):
would be like you know when theyhave these jokes where you think people are
gonna fight and it's my crew againstyours, but it's really just ants off.
That's that's what this was. Becausepeople would have their crews and it
would be the number one. Dudewould be called the A one and it
would be my, my A one. You'd roll up with your with your
(37:14):
crew and you're a you're A onewould come with their like you know,
their turf that they dance the shitout of and now that they're on your
turf. So like you know,Kingsbridge may go to Fordham and say,
all right, Kingsbridge A one versusfor Tom A one and then just you
know, in the middle of insteadof like the wall of death or whatever
(37:37):
it is in the in the metalshows, it's like, you know,
the wall of people in part orthey'd make circles and the A ones would
go at it for bragging rights crewagainst crew. So all this is happening
while the presumably while the DJ isgetting his next right. Well, no,
it's that's the thing. It neverstops now see that's the difference.
(37:59):
It used to stop, but nowherk got that ship on a loop.
So once it's time for just themerry ground, just the loops to happen,
it's just music. That's when wellthe fucking start breaking. Okay,
okay, so uh fifteen twenty CentricAvenue becomes a landmark thankfully it didn't get
(38:20):
torn down. Uh my avenue,I can say I live on what is
called hip hop Boulevard because it isthe historic avenue on which the genre was
created. And yeah, fifty yearslater, still going strong. Uh so
that is the story of DJ Coolhirkand the party that birthed an entire genre
(38:45):
of music. Oh and in twentyseventeen, hip hops are pasted rock as
the most popular genre. Wow,so not later in twenty seventeen that sounds
late, well because because it's us, But I think I think it's based
on universal downloads, so it's likei'd be I'd be understand in digging into
(39:08):
that statistic avoutage. I feel likeI feel like hip hopster passed rock and
log because the depth of rock isit's hell and fucking yeah, the death
of rock. But I think they'redoing it based on entirely based on streams.
Uh So, I guess you know, you know the bo when when
the Boomers started using their iPods,streams definitely went up and probably gave it
(39:32):
a run for its money for awhile. But yeah, wow, well
there you go. So here weare five decades later, and it was
declared dead by nas and it wasdeclare it was declared dead by NABS.
But but but in more of ametaphoric sense, and that the hip hop
(39:52):
he knew. You know, he'snot the only one. There are other
people who think the same thing becausethey listened to what some people consider mumble
rap. Has been said about mumborap. Yeah, you know, mumble
rap? What what is hip hop? Now? Basically pop music? Like
is it hip hop and pop andR and B just fused together to one
(40:15):
thing now? And that's basically everythingwe release, at least on popular radio.
So lots of debates to be had, but we know at least the
party happened and something revolutionary happened onthat night. Yeah yeah, very cool,
Yeah, very cool. Wow.So how I mean? I see
(40:37):
I went to his Wikipedia page.I see he's still alive. Yep,
that's good. He goes back tohe's he's local, he still goes to
the Bronx a lot to ask heprobably still has a crib in the Bronx
and he and he definitely is.He probably spends most of his time here.
And I I was I was gonnaask what what kind of I was
(41:01):
gonna ask what kind of what kindof influence he continues to have on or
if he's involved with any any anythingmodern that we'd hear on on like Top
forty Hits or anything like that.Well, what he's very involved in,
like, uh, to be asacademic as possible us. He's a steward
(41:22):
of the industry, you know,he's very involved in continuing the legacy,
the history, the roots of itthat. You know, how did it
start? The notion that for avery long time, people weren't even using
records like this, Like it wasunheard of to be having two turntables together
(41:43):
to like take parts of songs andput them together like that. We consider
it simple now. Hannibal Burrus actuallyhas a funny skit of how hip hop
was created, and but as funnyas it is, it's like people just
weren't doing that ship then it wasyou listen to a whole disco record the
whole way through. You don't takea record and then just take parts of
(42:06):
it and then take other parts andthen people dance to it and then you
talk over it. But it's makinglike a whole production. It's it's taking
your You're you're sampling. You're notjust sampling different songs. You're sampling rhythms,
and you're like, you're you're insteadof it being like one long stream
(42:28):
of music, you're like taking thebest of different things and putting it together,
and you're putting it through a productionsystem. You're not just letting it
all mesh out live. So there'she's you know, when it comes to
like the technical aspects and his storicalaspects, he is very involved. He's
very involved in documentaries. He's alwaysbeen affiliated with Grandmaster Flash, uh,
(42:53):
sugar Hill, you know, MChammer, a lot of the early really
pioneers. But he's not like formallyreleasing music now that I know of he's
he's you know, continuing to passon his status of the godfather of hip
(43:15):
hop and making sure that its rootsare known. Very cool, Yeah,
very cool. This is a goodone. Yep. Yeah it was good.
And that's what I was like,I just want to get this one
in before August ends, because yeah, you were texting me, You're like,
(43:37):
well, while still August, Igotta do this. I was like,
fun, man, that's that's todaytomorrow. I know I couldn't in
good conscious release this in September.Uh, so I wanted it to be
in in August, while it's stilltechnically fifty years to the month at least.
But but yeah, and his sister, by the way, is considered
(43:58):
like one of the very first hiphop promoters, very first club promoters.
So like, you know, wethink of DJ Khaled as always a hype
man and Flavor Flavor as a hypeman, and yes they were affiliated with
groups and DJs in production, butshe's the real first type person was a
hype woman. And even the peoplewho wanted Grandmaster Flashes the message another one
(44:25):
of the very first hip hop songsto be released, that was a woman
who really wanted it to get outthere because it had political messages to it,
and that was one of the firstpolitically motivated hip hop songs to get
out and she was like, thiswas shortly after Rapper's Delight, and she
said, you know, I don'tcare. The world needs this right now
(44:50):
and they need you to release this. And even though it's Grandmaster Flash,
it's actually only one member of GrandmasterFlash, DJ Meli mel and I believe
the other man rapping on it.And like the guy in the video said,
one of the best names of alltime, Duke Booty, Oh my
god, is the other man rappingon the message? I mean, who's
(45:15):
not going to listen to a guynamed Duke Footy. I'd listen to that
message all day. And you aduke, Yes of booty, that's right,
an earl of body, Uh yeah, earl of Sandwich, Duke of
booty. Huh yeah. So allstarted with a little index card. And
(45:44):
that, by the way, that'show the jobs I applyed to That's how
I apply on a little index card. That's that's how they that's how they
post these things. They post thesethings on little index cards and Microsoft paint.
This might this might be the onlytime I've heard of HTML. I'm
happy to see an index card dosomething other than help me fail a Spanish
(46:05):
test. Yeah, I mean,it's it's just so funny when you look
you could look up I was justgonna say, you could look up the
the index card. It's just sofunny that there is a Yeah, so
we inex card. We we dostill have it right, like it like
it's it's I'm assuming it's a museum. It's it's probably in the museum.
(46:29):
There's a photo of it at somepoint. Uh, But it's just an
index card. That says where thejust look at DJ Cool her hip Hop
Party index card and that's Cindy there. It is made the index card.
That's a handful of them. Anduh oh yeah the other part of it,
you know, twenty five cents forladies, fifty cents for fellas there
(46:52):
it is, uh some economics there, Uh special guest Coco, Cindy c
Clark K and Timmy Tindy his sister. Yeah, very cool, very very
(47:13):
cool. So it's all it's allunder the umbrella of hip hop, you
know, from rappers The Lights,sugar Hill Gang to hose Mad and Love
No Thoughties Chief Keith, so allfrom the same origin, even if it
went in different ways. I wishwe've made enough money off of this to
(47:34):
license some song to play us out. But yeah, you just have to
imagine it. Switch to the musicapp on your phone real quick, right
now. Yeah, listen to hoseMad because isn't it And well, no,
this is the one that I wouldalways get like before Rick Roll became
a thing. It was either beforeRick Roll would around the same time.
(47:55):
But there's a song called Everybody Lovesa Pimp by Slimp Duck and it just
starts everybody loves a pump and itjust starts like that, and it's so
funny. And I would tell Willie, my friend that, like in the
middle of baio on, my littlefat ass iPad iPod should say or his
(48:17):
fat ass zoon that he used touse. Kids could look at that up
in Wikipedia. That I'd be like, oh, yeah, you know,
now, let's just drop this newjoint or red hot chili peppers a back
with the new ship. And thenhe was like, okay, and I
put the earphones in. I'm juston full blasted here. Everybody loves a
(48:40):
pomp and that it became nug.If you buck, then now it's nuck.
If you buck, there would beno knuck if you buck, if
there wasn't if dj if Djork didnot nook, the world would not have
(49:04):
booked. That's right, that's right. So that's it. We learned.
Unlike other times where we could saywe didn't learn much, we learned a
lot. We did. This wasinformative. This is very good. I
feel like I feel like I havea greater understanding of the world as opposed
to as opposed to the world.According to Lawrence ray No, I think
(49:29):
I think that taught me a fewthings about the world also, but just
things I didn't want to know.And I feel like a time where I
didn't learn anything was the was theSeleno and Barnes episode. It's just like,
what's the takeaway? Not mine?Really, I just lawyers being lawyers,
Lawyers being lawyers. Don't don't advertiseon TV. If you can't fucking
you can't fucking hang man. LarryRay says, no, I invented hip
(49:52):
hop, and then and then hetakes like a fucking index card out of
his pocket and it's like fifty centcropped next him saying, look, here's
I do. Uh if a small, small anecdote, we've other we've wept
main episode content. I just wantto say that sometime over the past two
weeks, Even and I were sittingin a uh in an Xbox lobby,
(50:15):
just shooting the ship while we've gotour respective game set up, and I
read the news about Rudy Giuliani headingdown to Georgia without representation because the closest
he can't find anyone and account ofsomehow being cash poor, and he made
made the trip of someone very special. So if I can dig up the
video that I recorded of me discoveringwho that is. I will send it
(50:35):
to Evan to put oh wait,you recorded it. I recorded it.
I will put that. I willsend that to Evan to put us a
footnote on the footnote on this episode, Like the reaction when you realize Bernard
krag is actually in the documentary.Yeah, like you're like, wait,
he's here, he's credited, andhe's still around, and he's still kicking.
(50:55):
He's still Karragan. He's still around, He's still he's still he's he's
still burning. I mean, thefact that he is more sane than either
of these fucks at this point,the disgrace New York City Police commissioner.
It's still, at this point ina more sane position than fucking Rudolph Truliani
(51:15):
or Larry Ray, who we're soongoing to be eating, you know,
jello with a spork are is quiteludicrous. I hope it. I hope
it reached Larry Ray in prison.The news that Karrick is still out there
and somehow fucking relevant today. Yeah, but he's out there, He's not
Larry's not. I know, it'sincredible, after all this shit, after
(51:42):
all this shit, Larry Waite puthimself away after years and years of paranoia.
It had nothing to do with fornot Karrick. It was none other
than Lawrence Ray, who was LawrenceRay's worst enemy. Fistfuls of adderall will
(52:04):
do that to you, I guessanyway, all right, we'll get off
topic. This is very good,very good. Happy Birthday hip Hop,
Happy Birthday Cedric Avenue. I'm sure. I'm sure Cedric was a long long
time before that, but it certainlydidn't have relevance until DJ Coolhark rolled the
fuck up, lifted some weights,slap two discs together, and said,
(52:29):
bongos and James Brown, it's gonnalast fifty more years. Yeah, I'll
find that next tape now, allright, see you guys next time.
Peace hout y'all,
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