22 - Michael Dowd and the Seven Five - The Brolic

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're listening to the Brawlic on theAll Things Broke Network. This is a
New York history podcast bi weekly Sometimeswho Knows where I man who lives in
affordable housing, UH man who isstill a renter, and uh writer of

(00:21):
the Metropolitan Trifling Authority, Evan MasterArtie reads a story to a man who
once lived in a place that wasnamed after a pickle. If I'm right,
Dill, No, believe it ornot, it wasn't named after the

(00:42):
pickle. The town Dillsburg, iswhat you're talking about, was named after
a man named Samuel Dill, andthen they decided to make it a pickle
town. Yes, the pickle culturecame after the name. Incredible, incredible

(01:03):
that they the one thing that Icould have done it was separate anyway.
And what is your name? Myname is Seth Glicksman. And do you
know what the story is going tobe about? If I'm not mistaken,
I have no idea what this storyis going to be about. I've been
wanting to say this all day.Nineteen nineteen two thousand, the year of

(01:25):
our Lord Optimus Prime, the guywhose film name turns the camera on himself.
Can you believe again? There willbe no tables, ladders, chairs
here, gentlemen kills pro bono thirteenthcentury Gregorian chance. He keeps claiming he's

(01:49):
been poisoned, yet face fucking atall that you take the beckup, beckup,
pause part. There's a McDonald's university. It's his decision into a list
was quote a primal compulsion. Thisis a exclamation boy. Yes, Steven,
you may have the mob, butI got the city. Have you

(02:10):
ever met your ex wife? BecauseSarah exhausted Alexander Graham cell that's a number.
I don't talk to Galado five timesa day. He's got my fucking
house. He LARPs like, hey, just say you know form a marine
fonkos of a helput a former IPDcommissioner in jail, and now I'm being

(02:34):
hunted by him. How are youdoing, I'm saying on your daughter's couch,
yours. Ar cag is credited inthis filk Evan, I am looking
at the official Wikipedia page for HambrshonUniversity. Well, it was only a
matter of time before we put thesetwo things together. What are we brought
to? Uh? But what wesaid pickles, Let's just say pickles.

(02:54):
Okay, We're brought to you byuh, not Dill Pickles. Yeah,
get out of here. Dial.We're not brought to you by you.
That should be the name of thebrand, not Dal, not Dial.
So okay, go ahead. Yeah, so I want to know more about

(03:20):
this. Did they changed? Imean, I doubt they lied and said
they were part of the Dill legacy. If they were not, well,
so Adil pickle is is a pickleI believe, if I'm not mistaken,
that is made with with Dill.Like that's just but you know, one

(03:45):
could jump to the conclusion of theprides itself on pickles and it's called Dil'sburg,
then those two things must be connected. But it's actually the case that
this guy, I believe it's SamuelDill founded the town. It was named
after him because he founded it.And then they were like, well,
we're Dillsburg. Why wouldn't we lovepickles, So they just leaned into it,

(04:13):
all right. It's sort of likeif if you were born Michael fat
and you never and you were like, I gotta be fat because my name
is Michael fat, and so youjust got fat for the name because your
name was already that you could havesaid, I'll be the pH fat like
we're in the nineties. That's right, and just been really cool. Yeah,

(04:33):
that's true. That's true, andhonestly, probably even better because no
one would even believe you if yousaid that you got cool because of the
name and not the other way around. Yeah, because it's just too cool
of a name. I guess whatwe're really brought to by is resourcefulness every

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day. Every day, we're broughtto the world by resourcefulness. Actually,
when you don't have a sponsorship,that's why we must be Okay, late
nineteen eighties, late nineteen seventies,early nineteen eighties, general time frame,
early nineteen eighties. The New YorkCity seventy five seventy fifth Precinct. It's

(05:20):
art of East New York. Nowdo you know where East New York is?
This is not this is kind ofa trick question. I'm going to
guess that if you're a look ona map, it would be on the
it would be on the right sideof the seat. Go east, Yes,
Now what borough? Because actually it'sa you're right, there's the general

(05:47):
location one can say of East NewYork. But East New York is actually
a neighborhood as well. Ok whatborough do you think it's in? But
let's go with what you're thinking it'stoward. If we're looking at all of
New York, we're going we're definitelygoing east right easterly, I would think
is Queen's what's right next to it? So we're in Where are we in

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Brooklyn? We're in Brooklyn, NewYork. Brooklyn. Now for a crazier
trivia question with our past two showstatus of the tri state area? Where
do you think West New York is? And that's not just not just Jersey,
Oh, oh Jersey. There's aWest New York in New Jersey.

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What what am I saying about theBritish and how smart they are? They're
incredibly intoligent. I would never disrespectedBread about how smart they are with names
and like just not recycling anything.So so, so West New York is
it's just it was New York overthere, and it's there New York.

(07:05):
It's to the west, and it'sin New Jersey. God. So there's
an East New York in Brooklyn andthere's a West New York in New Jersey.
Wow, so we make perfect sense. These are recognized names of these
places. Oh yes, they're incorporatedlike, well, West New York is
more East New York is a neighborhoodin Brooklyn. West New York is a

(07:29):
city, it's a whole place.Yeah, so there's someone's going to be
the mayor of West New York,New Jersey. Man, you know,
that's like, that's like one ofthose things that you know when he's at
parties, is like, you know, I'm the mayor in New York and
then they're like are you And he'slike, well, you know, West
new York but it's still New Yorkexactly. But hey, the Brits who

(07:51):
came up with this back in theday, that's not his fault. Okay,
they could have picked a better nameanything, but you know what they
But you know what else, stay, I can't blame this on the British.
I don't know who did this withNew Jersey with the oranges, but
someone was obsessed with fucking orange.Actually the entire country is because there's Orange
counties everywhere. There's Orange County NewYork, there's Orange County in California,

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and New Jersey has a East Orange, a West Orange. Wow, and
I believe in North Orange. Butthey don't have a South Orange. One
of them. They don't have,but they have three other fucking oranges.
Wow. Why I mean because OrangeOrange was it's a British place, is
it? Not? Like that's aI think Orange is a place it is

(08:37):
it? Okay? Yeah, Ithink so. I might be wrong,
but I could imagine someone being theDuke of Orange. Oh yes, you
know, that's a duke worthy place. It's a duke worthy it's a duke
worthy place. It's very duky thatpoint. It is Orange. Oh yes,
I will duke this. I willbe the Duke of Orange. Well,
all right, So East New Yorkearly late seventies, early nineteen eighties,

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this is We're getting to the crackepidemic here, Okay in New York.
Shit's going down, yeah, allright. So as as always bad,
just just very stark income inequality inNew York City. So when you
have terrible inequities and income, youhave drugs flooding the cities. These two

(09:26):
things, when they come together,things don't tend to go well. So
and when that happens, you haveusually policing that tries to change tactics,
and that doesn't tend to go well. So the brutality of the policing only
increased during this time to keep upwith even increase poverty. And of course

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anyone who's on crack, which issuch an addictive, terrible, terrible drug
which will make people, do youknow, the addiction is so strong,
made people do horrific things. Andand you know, of course about the
difference about how America as a wholewould treat crack cocaine and powder cocaine differently.

(10:09):
You know, you you say,you said, well, of course
you would know. Oh, okay, if you did, that's now you
you would know how to treat ifyou know, I'm the Duke of Orange.
I know these things. I guessthe idea is powder cocaine. That's

(10:31):
that's sort of the rich man's drug, right, Cocaine is the poor man's
okay, see, you know,and I'm familiar. And of course along
with that tend to go racial lines, which are that powder cocaine tends to
be white folks and and crack cocainetended to be utilized by black and Latino.

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And many of the people in EastNew York and these areas were black
and Latino. They were, youknow, a part of the many of
them living on the poverty. Sothat's what those types of crimes would be.
And that's also where the brutality ofthe police would would increase. Okay,
so the precinct would you know,New York is getting, you know,
so many murders a year, thousandsa year. There was a time

(11:15):
when it was like three thousand homicidesa year, but this precinct alone,
you know, is having hundreds andhundreds a year. They're doing. The
precinct. The seventy five would have, like would have the largest portion of
that on a yearly basis of themid late seventies through mid eighties, of

(11:37):
the murder rate of the murders,of the homicides that were already so much
higher, already in the thousands eachyear during this time. So there was
also the most police involved shootings,of course. And when you join the
seven five, the captain and leadershipthere would say, take a polaroid of

(11:58):
yourself and give it to your wifeso she'll know this was you before you
joined the seven five. Jeezus,wow, I mean, was it a
punishment to be put there or like? Not? Not particularly A lot.
I mean a lot of people arejoining, you know, just out of

(12:18):
academy. This is where they're assigned. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, wow, that is thatis that's Dark's right, that's not
fun. And you don't want tofeel like you're going into Vietnam when you
become a cop. But Bob,that's what they called it. They called

(12:39):
it a war zone. They calledit Vietnam. You know, they called
it all these wars we've had.They looked at their own city, parts
of their own city as if itwas a war zone, which is what.
You know. You can only treatthe population of a war zone with
the utmost dignity and respect. I'msure that's what you respect that we treated

(13:01):
Vietnam, these folks. Sure.And the guy said, you know that
polaroid that was a selfie back then, that was the closest we had to
a selfie. I'm like, yeah, I know, I know it was.
And it's like you're giving your wifeyour photo in case you die,
like tomorrow, Yeah, I identifyyou, right, how is your dear?

(13:24):
How's your orientation? Love? Well, here's a photo of me for
identification. Per Yeah, you're gonnaneed this. Remember I've got a mole
on my back. I forgot totell them to take the mole. They
only got post photo. You'll getthose in the mail. O case.
If you get pictures in the mailof a man's back, they should be

(13:45):
wilid sized, should be able tokeep it in your will. Yeah okay,
yes, So how do you gointo anything already? Uh? You
know this is like how do yousay this is like Bay Ruin? Then
you go home to Long Island?Yeah right, no, yeah, awful,
that's gonna be so different. Infact, yeah, it's gonna be

(14:07):
both sides of the cocaine spectrum.That's what they give will be. Uh
So a man who grew up inQueens said, you know, I didn't
become a cop because I wanted tobecame a cop. Because I had no
direction. So always the best reason. Ye know, Yeah, go ahead.

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I know a lot of cops whenthey give their retirement speech, they
say, and what was it allfor? I I couldn't tell you.
But man, here I am collectingmy pension. I don't know. I
still got the polaroid. Okay.He said, I could have became a

(14:54):
fireffman just as easy. I ActuallyI disagree with him. This man is
truly the most whacked daisical public servantI've ever heard he said, Honestly,
I wanted to go into copywriting,but I just I just just I didn't
wind up in the office that day, and so it became a cop I

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missed the Oh no, he actuallysays. This is funny say because I
think he says this. He says, I missed the application deadline for firemen,
and then I just this was whatwas in the papers. They would
have the dates, and they stillhave it in the civil papers. Says
like, all right, guess what'scoming up. This man walks to a

(15:37):
corner and with no intentions of crossingthe street, but just seeing the walk
symbol, decides to go, Yeah, must be the way. God,
that's gotta be where I rolls it. That guy looks like me, and
I gotta get to that guy.He was, He didn't he didn't know

(15:58):
he would have done well on thetest in the first place. Again,
like all the people we want tohold the power of life and death,
Yeah, he was. Yeah.I really look forward to, like,
you know, somebody dragging me outof like a wrecked car and and me

(16:22):
just being like thank you so much, and him just being like, eh
could have been anybody. I'm justone of another guy and you're just another
guy. And honestly, if Iweren't here, I wouldn't have I wouldn't
lost a wink asleep. Now youwould have been dead. But here we
are. I gotta I gotta walk. I gotta walksime to catch bye Bud.

(16:52):
So he didn't he didn't know hewould even do that. Well,
guess how old he was when hegot the call and actually became a cop.
I'm gonna I'm gonna guess. Imean, listen, this is the
spirit of the young man. I'mgonna guess this. He was like nineteen
on the dot. You got it. He's nineteen. He's nineteen. This

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is a nineteen year old if everI have heard of one like uh huh.
I took a test to see ifI get it, and I did
so. I guess I'm gonna beatit out. Yes, yeah, so.
Uh. Michael Dowd is a bigleader of the seven to five and

(17:38):
he will be later asked did youreceive integrity training during the city council hearing?
And he says of unequivocally, eh, sort of not really. It
just feels this is a different guy, by the way, than the nineteen

(17:59):
years did I take you. Okay, this is this is this is this?
Yeah? Yeah yeah, And hewas asked if you receive integrity training
and he he said, he said, not really, yeah, not really
sort of nah, but honestly,this is good. He's being honest.
They're asking you if he took intaketraining seriously now, and and you know,

(18:23):
they asked him how many crimes hedid, how many he committed as
an officer. He doesn't know,hundreds probably at this point. So I
gotta kind of move around here becausenow we're going to go back because I'm
leading up to this is the guythat we're going to center around. Okay,
and we must yes, okay,uh so let me. I'm just

(18:49):
gonna make a note to come backhere. Okay here, okay. So
one of his first in one ofmy first act. You know, he's
I think he's just a little bitolder than Ken, the guy mentioned earlier,
who was nineteen. I think he'solder than Ken. Ken ends up

(19:10):
becoming his partner, but at thetime that was starting pair. Yeah,
this is a good pair of guys. Yeah, this is fucking Dylan Pickle
all right, cartogether. Yeah,I love I love the idea he's to
walk in the beat, because it'sjust like they can only have the the
frame of mind to think that theyare playing pretend, Like there's no way

(19:34):
that they think that they are actuallycops, and so like whatever they're doing
is an exaggeration of what a copshould be. They're a caricature of themselves.
Yeah, yeah, because they're likeyesterday I was I wasn't even a
copy yesterday, and now I'm acop. You can just do that in

(19:56):
that spirit. In that spirit.One of the first things he does is
he pulls someone over and uh hehe calls him and I've never heard this
expression before. It's a young guy. It's eighteen, so he's probably like
five year younger than Mike is bythis time. If it was if it
was Kennedy, one year, ifit's Mike. I'm saying, Mike's in

(20:18):
early twenties at this point. Andhe I've known this is a quite it's
a racist term, but it's almostour racism can be so creative sometimes,
you know. He says, allright, I pull him over. We
used to call them a Puerto Ricanmystery, and I'm like, are you
fucking Sherlock Holmes, Like what,what the fuck? Mystery are you solving.
It's a person, and what Ithink they mean is no identity,

(20:45):
no license on them. But Ithink he's a little confused here because he
said it almost like the person isn'ta citizen, like an undocumented person.
But Puerto Ricans are US citizens.So even if there was no ID,
you should be able to find throughthis person, they're not undocumented, they're
a citizen. Or the different layershere, or it's not a Puerto Rican

(21:07):
person, it's a Mexican person.And he's calling everybody to say thing,
whoa, WHOA? I mean,whoa, just as I mean he should
have. Wow, it's hard todeal with that sort of thing from a
person who is supposed to be acivil servant, right, it is hard

(21:30):
to it's hard to even get tothe ground floor just being like you understand
that what you said was wrong,right, and because you can't even because
you want to do the next stepwhere it's just like you can't just you
can't a wide brushstroke. You can'tdo that with human beings. It can't

(21:51):
be that way, right, Butit's also just like and also Puerto Rico
is the US. That's it's apart of us. Because those are two
different wars you gotta wage, andyou realize that if both of them have
to happen, this is fundamentally failure. Yeah, you don't know which to
address first. It's like, shit, I want you to just see human

(22:14):
rights and people, but holy fuck, can we educate you? Yeah?
And is there any hope without yourparents? Is there any And by the
way, while I'm educating, youcan arrest me. It's like, this
is the thing. He still hasthis power. So he pulls over what
he calls this eighteen year old PuertoRican mystery and it's not and it's a

(22:37):
mystery. The thing is like,they're not doing this on purpose. It's
so racist, but it's such aweird racist term. It almost sounds like
a romantic racist. It's like you'rea mystery. It's like, oh,
are you saying like I'm an enigma? No, I'm being fucking racist.
Yeah. It's like almost not enoughhate injected? Yeah, yeah, not
hate. It's like, what whatdo those words mean to you? You

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know? No license played, noid, no nothing. I'm like,
all right, all right. Soit's it's it's someone that doesn't exist.
They have no molecules, atoms,they're a mystery, all right. So
he looks at him and uh,he looks at all that's going gone,
and he notices that he had astack of a few hundreds on him.

(23:26):
Uh, and you know this islike the late this is the eighties,
So a stack of hundreds. Hethinks he probably has about fifteen to fifteen
hundred, two thousand dollars on him, and his late eighties probably can get
you. You know, you couldpay off a lot of tickets that way,
you can you could pay up alot of debt that way if it's
a few hundred dollars in late eighties. So he goes, hey, uh,

(23:51):
you think you could get me anice lobster lunch, which the police
officer says, this a police officer, And and this is the amazing thing.
Like to me, when he firstsaid that, I'm thinking, I'm
like, what are you asking themystery on a date? I'm thinking,

(24:11):
like, what are you trying to? Like? Are you trying to be
funny? But it's just really notfunny. But apparently he knew what he
meant, and he dropped a fewhundreds on the seat and he let him
go, like he asked clarifying question, did he say a lobster lunch?
Is that he said he didn't buyme a nice This is what Dowd said,
You think you could get me anice lobster lunch? Also, who's

(24:34):
had a lunch for lobster? Nota lot of lunch ride, I'm not
a lunchtry, that's that's not youwould draw more attention to yourself by saying
I had lobster for lunch. Right, but let's but let's not forget this
theme of Dowd drawing attention to himself, because this, this doesn't leave.

(24:55):
Okay, this persists, this notionof no issues. Is this generally like
the first time it's recognized that he'sdoing this, Yeah, this is this
is what I think he considers hisfirst real act of his first real drift
on the job. And we bothknow that that's just not the case,
right, Probably not the first onehe's willing to admit. You know.

(25:19):
Yeah, it just yeah, itjust sounds I mean, or it's that
unrehearsed that he really did pick lobsterlunch. Was director true? That's true.
He's like exactly the sort of dumb, stupid thing, you know,
a twenty something year old who isnow a cop, would then say like,
yeah, that's a lot of money. Uh, you will give me

(25:44):
a golden goose with that, andit's like, uh, did you trying
to get a like money from me? I'm not gonna say that. Guy's
also trying to navigate this completely likefresh meat cop who does not know yet

(26:07):
that that must be so awkward becauseyou're being you're being shaken down by a
guy who doesn't really know how todo a shakedown and help from out.
You're gonna be like all right,no, no, no, what are
some like things that rich people like? Uh yeah, lobster? Maybe you
want again, I'll give you yeah, yeah, how much do you think?

(26:27):
How much do you think? It'slike a lunch? Okay, then
like all right, maybe I cansave this one. It's fun, So
you're gonna get a special right soI could keep this? Yeah? Yeah,
So that that was it. Thatwas the first I think he got
a few hundreds from that, Andthat's what he claims to be the first

(26:48):
time that he on the job didsome illicit activity. All right, so
uh what what does he do next? Okay, so so now he starts
to think that he can continue todo this now he he didn't once the

(27:10):
lunch was successful. Uh, andnow he gets some money from it,
so it starts to become a partof his mo o. So then someone
else joins him. Officer Guevara,I'll say that Gavarda says he knew he
could trust Mikey Michael Dowd. Whena woman comes to the precinct says she

(27:30):
wants them to take her home becauseher husband or her boyfriend is being abusive.
So two guys you just want onthe job when you need protection in
them to think about you over themselves. Yeah, yeah, they show up.
They pinned down the boyfriend. Whetheror not force was justified, as

(27:56):
like like this is this is thesame as before. It's kind of like
this is the is US and PuertoRico the same country level of thought at
this point we don't even know ofcourse was justified. But that's so much
amongst all the ship that he's aboutto go down. Yeah, like they
probably like, uh, they sawthis woman come in and say I need

(28:21):
help my my boyfriend other Yeah,and literally like just blindly knuckled through every
person they had to do to thedestination. Right, they were like finally
an excuse to be violent. Exactlywhat did I become a cop for if
not senselessly beat up? Exactly?So, so they get the boy,

(28:45):
They pin the boyfriend down, arrestthe guy. Uh, and a few
things happen. So while the guyis down, okay, they see under
the couch there's a double bag.She just wanted to get her clothes.
She didn't want a house inspected.She didn't want them to look around and

(29:07):
find shit. She just wanted toget her clothes and get out. But
now that they're here, bod's inthe crowd. Now, man, you
can't. Uh. So they arrestthe guy and when they put him down,
they notice what he calls a fiftyfive Oh no, no, that
this was? This was? Ohno, under the couch. There's something

(29:29):
else. Okay, there's two things. One thing is what he calls a
fifty five gallon drum, big fuckingcontainer in an apartment in New York of
marijuana sticking out like a saw,fucking thummy. He said, five gallon
drum of marijuana, freshly cut grass. I am, I am, I

(29:59):
am perplexed. I am. I'mflexed too, and I'm impressed. Is
this verified? Was that there?I don't. I don't know if it's
verified, but everything else that's linkedto this is in fact a crime,
not necessarily on the part of themarijuana grower. Marijuana is legal now anyway,
but of what they are about todo next, because they know they

(30:22):
see this and they think, oh, this guy's big, like he's a
big dealer when you are dealing marijuana, when you were handling marijuana yeah,
in in Gallin's and say you're aprofessional. Yeah. So then they think
there's got to be money with this, you know, there has to be.

(30:44):
And under the couch they look andthey find a duble bag that's got
thousands in it. Uh the twentyfive thousand, I think they estimate.
So, uh, there's a doe. They take a lot of money out
of the duffel bag and uh.Gavata also sees guns. This is the

(31:06):
funny part. Gavata first sees theguns. He doesn't go right right because
this he's trying to test Michael.He says, all right, there's a
lot of money in here, butthere's two guns. I'm gonna take the
guns and not even mention the money. So while he's taking the guns,
Michael says, fuck the gun.There's a lot of money in there.

(31:27):
And then they said all right,all right, throw on the same page.
And then they start taking the money. Wow. It was like,
cop me cute. They said,yeah, I know, do you want
to Yeah, maybe you'll take that. Let's go, let's that the rain.

(31:49):
Wow. And now now you're sayingso he is feeling down out.
He he's like trying to see ifhe is he's older. He's older,
so he's been corrupt himself for alittle while. He probably has I think
this is a new partner for him, right yeah, And he's trying to

(32:10):
see, how can I trust thisguy? Wow? I trust him to
do the wrong thing, the rightthing by the cops, by us us
as the public, the wrong thing. Wow. Yeah, I mean what
this is? This is really turningout to be quite the romance it is.
This there is quite between Gevada,Dowd and Ken the earlier in the

(32:37):
nineteen year old that could have beena fireman. Yeah, those three couldn't
imagine what kind of fireman he'd be. He didn't imagine if something wasn't burned
and I expected to have it back, it was burned. The fire didn't
even happen in the living room.Why is that? Yeah, oh,

(33:00):
you know it's this electrical fire stuff. You know, we can flow that
any moment. Yeah, we basicallyjust did you the favor of getting rid
of everything that. Yeah, it'sanother firewaiting to happen. It's in my
apartment. Now I'm the one that'sgonna sucker, so he knows he can
trust him. Now they get themoney, like twenty twenty five grand.

(33:22):
Oh they don't. Oh right,I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There's an
etiquette to this, right, youdon't want to rob a guy, apparently
all the way. No, no, come on, be a gentleman like
the other guy. Just just getme a lobster lunch. It's the same
principle, you don't want to robhim all the way. I guess to
some extent, there's a few reasonsfor this one. It's harder to hind

(33:44):
that because this is cash, okay, so it's harder to hide twenty twenty
five than it is eight. Andanother thing is I think they kind of
like, as fucked up as thissounds, they feel like they'll get a
little more respect from whom ever they'rerobbing if they know that they won't give
them, so they have nothing leftto art. They have nothing left now

(34:06):
if they left them with nothing,But if they leave them with a little
something else, then they'll say,okay, all right, at least this
motherfucker I can talk to, orhe'll only kick my ass three fourths of
the way. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, instead of all the way.
Because that's what we're dealing with here. These are the compromises that that
the citizens of New York must dealwith. Wow, anyway, they take

(34:28):
eight grand, they know they cantrust each other, and he says,
this is late eighties money. Youcould buy a fucking christ Le Baron with
that. This is an interview thisguy is giving. Yeah, this is
no, he's a great interview tellingeverything he's it's it's a fucking reality show,

(34:49):
all right. Uh So Gavada isnickname, by the way, is
Chicky, Okay, Chicky Canon Chicky, No my and Chicky Mike Chicky and
Kenn's the young guy from before.Yeah yeah yeah. Uh so they give

(35:09):
Chicky the guns as well because he'sa gun bob. So so I just
want to be clear. The onething that they could have returned that is
somewhat of use to the NYPD toany public safety is that we got guns
off the street that could be rollingaround the street. That one thing they

(35:29):
also took all. Yeah, solet's take this illegal thing and make it
more illegal. Yeah. So Chickiejust keeps the guns because he liked guns.
Not the only reason to commit acrime, not a reason I like
guns. Yeah, that's why.And there were guns there, so naturally,

(35:52):
what the fuck am I gonna do? I funk them. So the
only thing I think there, andI doubt these these lazy fuckers are taking
the fifty five gallon. I thinkwhat they're gonna do is they they're gonna
take some weed, bag it up. I believe that's the only thing that
they actually returned from this whole fuckingthing was some weed in like a ziploc

(36:12):
bag or whatever. Like that's theonly thing they got from this aside from
I almost forgot. The whole reasonthey're here is to let this lady get
her clothes, and yeah, that'sit. You have to I like to
think that she was there when thatall happened, and she was just like,
oh, oh uh oh, that'snot oh okay, I'm just gonna

(36:36):
get my stuff. I'm gonna justsneak by here while this is all going
on, and yeah, yeah,yeah, So he starts, Oh,
actually this goes to your point earlierwhere you were like, how long has
he been doing this? So forthe past few years up until now that
Dowd's been on the force, Dowdis he now laments that he hadn't done

(36:57):
this sooner because because he's like,I've been taking money from drug busts and
throwing it up for years. Whatthe fuck was I doing? I could
have got a house on Myrtle Beachwith this money, which you know,
foreshadowing this is this is something hewill keep in mind later. But he's
realizing all the missed opportunities that hehad. So after a couple of bags,

(37:22):
you know, I bought a housein Myrtle Beach. Oh my god.
So he does this after continuing thismore times. I love that.
I love that because in the interviewhe had no way of building up the
story. So he said, I'mlooking at all his money, I'm thinking
I could buy a house on MyrtleBeach, and so I took all this
money and I bought a house onMyrtle Beach. You can see that.

(37:49):
Yeah, he was not building upsuspense. Now. He was just like,
I'm gonna tell you exactly what Ithought. I what I thought.
Uh, And September of eighty six, So at this point, you know
enough I listed activity has happened.It's brought us a few more years.
Now we're in the mid eighties andtwenty blocks from the seven to five at

(38:13):
the seven three cops are arrested oncorruption, for stealing drugs and money and
doing burglaries. But this isn't thesame the seven to five, not even
three. They're next door, they'revery close, next door neighbors. You
would think that might be uh,you know, let's see how many guys

(38:36):
was it. It was. Itwas a substantial amount. It was like
fifteen fucking guys, fifteen twenty guys. They were all in a ring.
So you would think some of theseven to five might take newt perhaps those
those egos, they literally were probablylike that's stupid, fucking exactly, they

(38:59):
fucked. They don't know what they'redoing. Uh. There was a guy
from Internal Affairs saying that his brotherin law was a fireman at that precinct
and like the same precinct, butthe fire and he was like why are

(39:22):
cops coming into our fire department andtaking ladders and hatchets randomly? From like,
first of all, I'm thinking,don't they have that? I mean,
it's a ladder and a hatchet offlowers and hatchets even if they don't

(39:44):
have ladders, and to get it, pretty fucking deep drug money you can
buy. But no, they goto the fire they want theirs. They
probably went in and they're probably you'reprobably wonder what I'm thinking this ladder for,

(40:05):
and they're like that, get thefuck out of here, and it's
just like now, but you probablywant to ask me why I were why
this ladder? Right? Yeah,because they don't just get out of the
firehouse. I don't know why takinga ladders and then and then they imagine
they need to put out a fireand the two things they don't fucking have
our ladders and hatches. My god, damn it. Just bring them back

(40:29):
all you gotta just rereading the reporting. You bring it back like your neighbor,
You bring back your neighbor's ladder.So Ken, Ken's gonna come in
later, that's right. Ken atfirst actually doesn't want Dowd in the car
because he's heard some stories. Youknow, there may have been stories.

(40:51):
Yeah, I mean, word definitelygets around. I'm sure within these ranks
there's just sort of like, yeah, you know, Mike's what I got,
some sticky thingers, you know,like right, just keep an eye
on Mike, you know, he'sjust sort of a nuisance more than anything.
Yeah, it's not it's not likea principal thing. It's like with

(41:13):
a lot of cops. I thinkit's more like, not what you do,
just don't be reckless, like don'tdon't get caught, and then get
us to get caught. Yeah,it's not so much on the principle you
want to have each other's back,because everybody has each other's back there.
It's just yeah, don't be reckless, so he says at first. Yeah,
but then we started drinking and bondingover our wives lives, I know,

(41:40):
right, like like to me,I can only imagine what too and
may I'm sure very much enlightened andnot sexist men over drinks would be bonding
over with their wives that made themnow bonds men. I'm I'm sure there
was no problem whatsoever. She's justshe loves the classics, and that's what

(42:05):
I love about it. Right,your wife loves the classics. No kidding,
My wife is loves to read,loves to read. We should get
together, the four of us.We should. And you know, on
my on my last burglary, Isaw a fucking back, a back,
fucking classic. You know I canget you that next time I'm hitting me.

(42:27):
I saw a fucking egg. Iwould love it. Opera. Uh
so, yeah, so that wasit. Now they're friends, and that
was it. That was it,he said. He said, I'm real
skeptical of that guy, but thenI sat down with them, and now

(42:49):
I'm not. Now I'm I saidthat with him, had a drink anywhere?
Yeah, the barrier to entry wasnone. It was as convenient as
doing something he would have done anyway. Yeah, someone else corruption, potential
jail time. Does he ship onhis wife and drink, he shaid,

(43:10):
does level, Yeah, it hadbeen passed. They both have kids as
well, great only great influences thereanyway, there are similar parts in their
lives, he says. He Iforget if these are my words are his
words. But someone calls it atrue love affair, They no, no,

(43:32):
it is it is. He doescall it a love affair. Then
he says yeah, because then hesays, I remember, I gave him
my heart after that. Wow,wait, after the conversation, after the
conversation and the fact that now Kencan drink on the job too, gave

(43:54):
him my heart after that, hesays, Remember this is the late eighties.
You're making thirty six thousand a yearnow. Teachers now have an entry
salary of about forty thousand in NewYork City, and they're deeply disrespected by
the disrespected by the way. Nothis copsams are disrespected and make only four

(44:15):
thousand more than the entry salary inthe late eighties, three decades ago plus.
All right, So at first heknows what Mike is doing, but
he doesn't join in yet because Mikeis in Chicky are also doing burglaries and
shit. So Mike shows Ken what'sgoing on, and he takes him one

(44:37):
hundred of their recent you know whatthey recently got, and he gives it
to Ken, and Ken said,I put that hundred at the top of
my locker for like like weeks,and there wasn't a it was there was
a there was a point at onepoint where he finally took the locker,
I mean took the hundred dollars andused it and then he was in.

(45:00):
But for a long time the hundredwas just sitting at the top of his
locker. I love that because it'slike it sounds like he has a heavy
conscious about it, Like it's soundsat least about this part. Yes,
yeah, but it sounds like it. But then he just eventually uses it.
So it's like it just kind ofseems like he's just like, yeah,

(45:23):
and it was so hard until oneday it wasn't and then I just
whizzle all the way in. Youknow what. This is the same thing
with the there was a walk sign. Yes, yes, this is the
same kind of thing. It's likesuddenly things things click and compute and we're
just kind of like why. It'slike I just that, yeah, that's

(45:46):
uh, I've got one hundred dollarsnow. I mean he does. He
does talk about the pay, butlike I'm saying, this, actually,
in retrospect, is not terrible pay. I know that it's probably not great,
but thirty six thousand with I meaninflation in nineteen late nineteen eighties,
that's not a terrible salary. Andif your wife is working too together,

(46:09):
that's something. So the man isnot making poverty wage, right, Yeah,
so you're all in the money.You look at what the drug dealers
are driving. They're driving the Porsches, they're driving the Jaguars. Why shouldn't
we get a cut of that withwhat we're doing and why shouldn't we Well,

(46:32):
maybe it's because these people did badthings to get what they got.
By their own judgment, they didbad things right there, and we're gonna
do bad things still and now we'reequal. So they're apparently a type of
robbery or some kind in a drugbust. And then there's the anti crime

(46:57):
unit, right right, Okay,so this is an other famous thing that
happens, so some Mike's. Inorder for this all to work, remember
Mike and Chicky, they gotta bethe ones there to see the money first,
because if someone else is there tosee the money first and they're not
as corrupt at least, they maynot do the same thing that Mike and

(47:22):
Chickie want to do. Right,And if there's fewer people, even if
they are corrupt, you're gonna nowhave more people to split this money with.
So they need to be here first. So they were all ready.
It's funny to see just think oftwo police arriving at a scene and then
like, fuck, there's police silentlylike this place is crawling with cops,

(47:46):
and remember just the other guy,we're cops. So that that's what the
this and this unit. It's justso funny that the cops like they throw
so many titles at you, theanti crime Unit, Like, fucker,
aren't you all anti crime units?No? I think the Anti crime Unit
is an elite squad of superheroes.Yeah, Fatures, the Wonder Twins.

(48:10):
Sorry, I didn't realize the Avengerswere part of it. Yeah, yeah,
the Anti crime Unit with the IncredibleHope. So, uh, this
is what I can't with, Mike, Mike. So a guy in the
anti crime Unit is just doing hisfucking job. But you got fucking Mike.
Here goes. Listen, guy,all right, see all those bills,

(48:32):
See all those bills. It's abitch to have to really do all
the paperwork on that. I'm tellingyou, man, I'm telling you you're
gonna go there. You gotta doa stamp on every one of those bills.
You gotta log those, but justgive it to me. I'll work
on it. I'll work on hee. He's like trying to seem all honest
and like, I'm saving you thepaperwork, but okay, let me just

(48:52):
do it for you, Tom sawyeringthis man. That's how he gets to
mister anti crime. At least theguy that's looking at the money. He
says, yeah, you're right,that would be a lot of work.
All right, you can have it. He's getting the guy that's initially his

(49:13):
job is supposed to take the money, to not make it his job anymore.
But that doesn't mean that there aren'tstill cops around, right way.
You can't just walk off a crimescene with a bag full of money and
not have anyone ask questions. Sohe's so he's just trying to get them
to that guy to not take themoney and everybody else to leave. So

(49:34):
funny love the idea of like justbeing like, all right, well,
I think parties pretty much over here. I can kind of just make sure
everybody gets at Hey, get home, get get at Let me let me
take care of this one me alone, please, I insist, So he

(49:59):
he Now they have to come backnow, and they have to make like
oh right, right right. Theywait until some people leave, but there's
still a cop there that is thatis not in their uh circle corruption,

(50:19):
circle of corruption yet. Yeah,so they they need to be able to
quickly get the money out without itbeing seen like they're doing a robbery.
It's like, I really love thiswhole scene because it's like I also imagine
that guy is like just the narkiestof narks, where it's just like,
what are you guys still doing here? And it's just like we're, uh,

(50:43):
well, we're actually waiting for everybodyto go because we want to make
sure everybody gets home safe. Andit's like, well, I think I
can handle it. I'm the onewho's supposed to be assigned last on the
site. And it's like, yeah, that's great, Eugene. Hey,
why don't you go check in yourcar real fast for something? And I
didn't leave anything in my car.I couldn't even imagine what I would have

(51:04):
left. And it's just like that, Jean, Hey, we'll go ahead,
Jean, and like, I don'tthink there's anything over there for me
to look at, just like everystep of the way, this guy getting
in their way. Yeah. Soand worse, I think that person's actually
a woman, So I'm sure thatthey oh gee, use no elements of

(51:24):
sexistm say honey, look he neededto make some extra money because your boyfriend's
are schmuck. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, some awful garbage.
This is cute women's power and everything. Sure the big boys, big boys
got it from here. That's I'mthat is exactly the line. That's like
exactly the line. I know.That's what this motherfucker said. Okay,

(51:47):
what they end up doing is theywait, I think it until it's just
her and yeah, you're I couldjust imagine them doing gambling looking at the
fucking horse races or something while they'rewaiting for all the staff. Anyway,
so they now get need Chicky tobasically come in the car and take his

(52:07):
car over so they'll have a wayto because they don't want to use their
own car. They want to usea different car. Now, I mean,
they really are thinking like criminals,like this is like that, they're
trying to think the biggest I think, yeah, because they have the whole
antiqu crime unit and the avengery whateverunit that they this is probably gonna be

(52:29):
their biggest bus, their biggest burglaryessentially. Now, what I what I
didn't understand is at one point CHICKIGavada actually is is I think this got
underplayed. Chicky is actually as corruptas Mike, even though Mike maybe did
more. Uh. Chicky at onepoint is no longer a cop, so

(52:49):
he just is like this former cop. I don't know if it's now or
if it's later, but he's justthis former cop now who knows everything cops
do, and that Mike calls whenhe won wants a cop like person showing
up, and the guy who canact as a cop but is no longer
but probably has some pull there becausehe once was and once a cop,
always a cop. It's like it'sthis weird dynamics. So that's like the

(53:13):
most like almost definitive crime there's likeit. And so he gets Chicky not
only to bring his car, butbecause people aren't leaving at this speed that
Mike's wants them to it, andI think it might just be down to
this one female cop. He getsChicky to come out of his car.

(53:34):
Chicken never made detective, but hedresses He said I had him dressed up
like a detective. So he hasa suit because the detectives were suits,
and he got he got a fakebadge and a suit and he comes up
there and then does that. We'lltake it from here, and then they
could take the money and put inthe back of the car. Really is
it though, where it's like,all right, you you have officially stopped

(54:00):
cops, Like you're done now.Because at the beginning, like when you're
on a crime scene and there's moneythere and you take it and that's it,
that's like one thing. It's likethat's a level of corruption. That's
like it's almost like you're almost likebuilding building community bonds, you know,

(54:21):
yeah, with sexist Yeah, whitewife, white complainers. Yeah, yeah,
that's what we do. But thesecond it's like, all right,
chicky, I've got a fake mustachefor you to wear. You're gonna come
back in two minutes being a newsreporter. You're gonna tell me that my
family just died in a car accident. I'm gonna start crying. When I
start crying, I want you cando a back roll over this. You're

(54:47):
under there, get the bag ofmoney, and then get into the getaway
car, which looks like a clowncar, and I will be dressed as
a clown. At that point,like at that point, you are no
one. That's great and that's acop going on, Yeah, you're you're
you're a criminal cosplaying as a copat this point, and that that's one

(55:07):
of the questions that he was askedladies by one of the council people,
who I think wanted their big newspaperheadline. It's like, what were you
first a cop or a criminal?And then yeah, and then I think
he just ends up saying, aftera long pause, both that was that
was both make a choice. Yeah, I'm so Mike, But I kind

(55:30):
of get it because, first ofall, to me, some cops inherently,
by what they have to do ourcriminals. But I think I think
by his criminality went right in stepwith the natural power of being a cop.
I mean, and that's what you'llsee here. So anyway, so
they get all the money, theyget in the car, they go straight

(55:51):
to Atlantic City and then and thenChicky has this great, somewhat I guess
some what racist line that that goesforget Beverly Hills, the richest neighborhoods of
a ghetto. Wow wow, Imean, that's was more like an evil

(56:12):
villain. Great line. That's agreat line. It's just he's a cop.
Well, it was a cop.Did he retire? Why is he
not a cop anymore? I don'tknow. But now he's just like he's
on call. He's basically like aliterally literally he's a rent to cop.

(56:35):
He's a rent to cop. Yeah, he's literally one. But he's a
rent to cop contracted into essentially themicd Out criminal organization. Right, all
right, So I'm gonna give youa guess. Are you a car guy?
Do you like cars? Not necessarily, but i'd love right, but
but you know about some of thelike famous sports cars. Sure, what

(56:58):
do you what do you think Mikegets? This is the biggest, is
the biggest, uh steel they got. It's in the hundreds of thousands.
I think, what do you thinkMike gets? Is this something they bought
or something they that Mike buys.I mean I'm gonna assume Lambeau like that's
like the not a Lambeau. Uh, but we're on the right class of

(57:21):
cars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's
I mean, give it to mebecause I'm not going to get there.
Sorry, a Corvette, right,yes, which is exactly what yes,
of course, which is what acop drives. Of course it sort of
is right, and and and whatcolor do you think the corvette is?

(57:43):
Red? The reddest it's it's thereddest red of It's the reddest thread it
is. It is the thing thatif internal affairs came to your house,
is going to have a hey afield day soon. Yeah. I know
how much you make, and uh, that seems like just a little bit

(58:05):
above the pay grade. Bear someinvestments. Why a cop can't invest?
A cop can't invest? Want meto call my union rabbit. We all
we have investment groups. Uh,we meet on Sundays. Oh god,
So everybody tells Mike, uh,you know that that red corvette you got?
Even Chicky and cann A like,Mike, don't bring that fucking thing.

(58:30):
Mike, are you a fucking idiot? Do not bring that ship to
the precinct mic Oh my god.A week later, what do you think
Mike does? I'm gonna if hedoesn't drive directly into the precinct building with
it. Wow, he drives anddo you know what he said? He's

(58:52):
like when they cut, when theycut to Mike for this for Mike's interview,
He's like, well, what didyou expect me to do? You
know, my wife used her car. I didn't have any other car.
I wasn't. Oh no, no, he said, he said, I
there was. I guess they havethree cars at one point, and the
only car left was his wife's,one of his wife's car. I don't

(59:13):
know. He's like, I couldn'tdrive my wife's car. It's a fucking
Hyundai. I like some or likea woman. Yeah, yeah, it
was like some some like I thinkit was a Hyundai. It was like
some car that was not like aworking man's car. And exactly he said,
he said it like that, likeexactly, Wow, how Ken and
I gonna bondle of our fucking wivesanymore? I become the wife? Wow?

(59:39):
What a sad man? What anidiot? I mean, what an
idiot? Let's just say for sure, what an idiot? Because it's just
like if all it took for youto blow your cover was just like I
can't drive my wife's car. Iforgot part of what influenced him to buy

(59:59):
the red Corvette. Okay, II all right, So he does get
the red Corvette, but there's anotherthing that influences him to get it.
I couldn't even imagine. I actuallyyou can't what besides money? What do
you think motivates Mike money power.What's the other one that a lot of
men usually do things for sex?Sex and women. Yeah, So he

(01:00:20):
sees he's in the Heights, andMike is from Long Island, by the
way, He's from Suffolk County,where you at suck stuff. Honestly,
this is the most Suffolk dude.So he's and then he goes to Washington
Heights. Uh, And I forgotif he's doing this just on a day

(01:00:44):
trip or if he's riding around.I think it's all together now for Mike.
Everything's a day trip. And hesees a beautiful woman on a red
Corvette and I think he's about totalk to this woman, because why wouldn't
he. He's a cop. Hecan hit on women. That's his job,
of course, especially if you're acop. Yeah, it is what

(01:01:07):
Mike's understanding of the job is,right. It's a get out of jail
free. It was literally a getout of Joe free card. And then
somebody comes up and starts talking tohim, and Mike's like, who's this
motherfucker? And it's like that's herhusband, and and Mike is just such
an asshole. He's like this likeugly looking well, how I could not

(01:01:29):
believe this skinny, ugly motherfucker waswith like like, Mike is, by
the way, fucking deprized hercules Greekgod, he is, by the way,
oh God. But this guy that'stalking to her, Mike's also thinking,
wait, that's his girlfriend, that'shis car. And he's coming out
of like a little little not affluentlooking business, very small business in the

(01:01:53):
heights, and and Mike's thinking tohimself, what the hell's going on here?
So he starts talking to the guy, and the guy does sell audio
equipment for cars, but then Mikefinds out he does a little more than
that on the side. So Mikenow is having business ideas. He says,

(01:02:14):
I don't need to just do myside hustle side hustle being robberies and
getting people to impersonate police officers.I could join his side hustle. And
now the partnership that made Mike fromlike a guy getting one hundred thousand dollars
to an absolute multimillionaire is born whereMike basically meets the middleman of a lot

(01:02:35):
of drug dealers within New York Citywho has a front but a real business
of a car audio shop. Sonow the thing is Mike needs to get
him in touch with the drug dealer. So this guy's going to serve as
the middleman between Mike Kenny and thedrug dealers. So he does that.

(01:02:59):
Uh there's a Dominican gang and theboss is called Montalvo, and uh,
what Mike does is he's gonna tellMontalvo when the DA is going to come
in DA N Y P D andhe and either of them is going to
come in and raid his area sohe can move the drugs. So Mike

(01:03:21):
does that, and he says,once I do that, I'd expect this
amount of money. So Mike doesthat that amount of money, I mean
their their drugs are moved. TheDA doesn't get anything, and Mike wants
his money, so he goes tothe audio store where the middleman is who's
who's bothering all this? He givesMike the money, and Mike then says,

(01:03:45):
uh, what the fuck? Thisis not all the money. So
Mike is finding out that, hey, uh, you know, drug deal
you don't always gotta gotta beef upyour word. Where's the binding contract here?
You don't always got to live upto it. So Mike's waiting for
his money, waiting for the restof his money, and he says,
you know what, I'm gonna getthis motherfucker. So what he does is

(01:04:05):
he gets his cops, his cops, the Mike cops, essentially anyone that
likes Mike to go and just stopand frisk every single Oh my god,
opera. See the power just buildingup in his back. He said,
he said, are you trying tofuck me? You're trying to fuck with

(01:04:26):
me? You fuck me? Becauseif you fuck me, fuck you.
So they're they're they're raiding, they'restopping and frisking, they're just all this
terrible ship to anyone on that block. So then the drug dealers getting pissed,
and the drug dealer says, Ijust don't want to run out of
battery in a great part of thestory. So then so then he says,

(01:04:47):
all right, I'm gonna put outa contract on Mike dwd's head.
Yeah, and I'm gonna and Mike, here's about this. Now this is
also funny. Mike says after hehears that, he's like this, fuck,

(01:05:11):
I know what car you drive becauseyou drive him very like he drives
a very expensive, conspicuous car.To someone else, like saying, he
said, put a contract out onmy head. I want a contract out
on my head. Say he's drivinga Porsche and all he needs to do
is connect two things that area anda Porsche of that color, and Mike

(01:05:32):
is gonna stop the fucking car.There's the He's thinking, there can only
be so many. So he doesand he finds the guy. He stops
him at first just for like solike a traffic thing, and then he
goes and then he goes, allright, let me see license and registration.
While the guy's getting on getting it, he says, so a contract

(01:05:53):
on my head, motherfucker. Huhyou thought you could do that? He's
like, I could have you killedall this ship and that he gets the
rest of his money. Then it'sdropped at a secure location. That partnership
is over. I would love itif, like truly, he just got
the wrong guy, and yes,we got got it. Undercover cop behind

(01:06:17):
the wheel and he's like, soI'm contracted out of my head, I
motherfucker. And the guy's like,what are you talking about? Don't don't
die to school with me. NowI know what you're up to. And
it's like I'm sorry, how muchfaster than the speed limit was like going
it's a children's zone. I wasnear the school bus. I'll pay whatever

(01:06:41):
the fine is. I don't know, so so then the Mike's Mike's ready
to finish. I was kind ofsurprised, actually, because I thought Mike
would just say, all right,God closes one door, he opens another.
Okay, I'm not expecting that attitude. He didn't want to work with
the guy in the middle anymore.You didn't want to walk to the middleman

(01:07:01):
who had the audio store. Butthe guy at the audio store apparently really
liked this idea for himself to makea lot more money. He really likes
this guy that's corrupt and was aboutto like try to take his wife from
him. It's like, it iskind of interesting to me that it's a
bad way to meet someone. Itreally is like nice car, she's hot,

(01:07:23):
I have power. I'm gonna tryto make this happen. And that's
the guy that you can't wait.Yeah, well I guess see. It's
the same thing, like we can. It's like all this shit that I
do, if someone else does it, it's like yeah, I would do
that, yeah, yeah, whichis different walks of life. This is
why to get you know, andyou want to have sex with my wife.

(01:07:46):
This is why, like I say, you know from a I don't
get too academic here, but Isay, you know, patriarchy's intersectional.
That's why feminism needs to be too. But because it doesn't matter when is
Dominican, when's a long Island,Italian, Italian, Irish. I believed
out is It's like it doesn't matterall those things, nice car, attractive
woman. I believe that this ishow men should act, especially men in

(01:08:09):
power. We we don't even needto speak the same fucking language and we
still at each other. Okay,So he's like, no, no,
I'll hook you up with a betterguy. All right, so false start
now a now a real partnership isborn, right, Adam Diaz, this
is just a new guy. Thisis a new guy also runs a gang

(01:08:31):
in the heights. And apparently theinteresting thing is Montalvo is his brother in
law, the guy that Mike,the guy that put that hit on Mike.
That's Diaz, his brother in law. And Diaz like was just talking
so much shit about him, likehe does nothing. My operation can run

(01:08:53):
circles around him. But I can'tkill the motherfucker because he is the brother
of my wife. Oh no,no, no, he said, he
said it. He said, it'sso much better than that. He said,
because I'm fucking the shit out ofhis sister. That's right, that's
how he said it. It wassuch a good luck, like it's so

(01:09:17):
fucked up with the way he saidit was hilarious. He is like,
that's why I can't so my brotherin law, I can't hurt him,
but I don't care about his business. So he puts him in touch with
them. DS sees what Mike cando. He then he DS pays him.

(01:09:40):
Mike does the same thing he didfrom on top of but DZ pays
him in full, and then apartnership was truly born. So uh every
week, I think they said itwas eight thousand, was it? No?
No, it was okay. Well, first let me do a little
more background on Diz. Uh.Okay, So first let's do a background.

(01:10:05):
Diaz runs a bodega. I thinkhe runs multiple bodegas, and the
bodega is a full functioning bodega.In the back of it was where the
drugs are. So you don't wantthat, you don't want it in front
of the store. No, ofcourse, so he said, no,
it was full functioning. People wentthere. They had no idea that there

(01:10:26):
were drugs in the back. Andthen there was like a code word.
It was like, I don't know, a milk and bread and a special
milk and bread or something. Itcan't be that simple because someone probably would
then really just want the milk special. That would be funny if they got
some cocaine with that said, hewas leaving the special milk and bread.

(01:10:49):
I can't imagine he wasn't getting thespecial milk and bread. No, why
did he come back with a kilo? But anyway, so there was some
code word that meant you're not justthere to get but he said no,
But we still gave you the milk, he said, we still put in
the bag, so you know,in between that though, we gave you

(01:11:11):
something else, so it looked likeyou really did go shopping. There was
no reason for suspicion. So hejust had he had these businesses and that,
and then he had a separate stashouts. Okay and uh right,
Baron I believe that was his namethat got from the audio store, which

(01:11:32):
is a great name. Baron Baronwas the middleman in the audio car audio
store. And I remember the waythat Diaz said he could trust One of
the ways he could trust him isbecause I love these points where we get
like a look inside like this ishow I knew I could trust him,
he said, because because Diaz likeshis cars. And Diaz said, I

(01:11:58):
want you to put that in ordersystem. This is like his day job,
he said, I want you toput an audio system in the back
of my Porsche. I don't wantyou to drill one fucking hole in the
Porsche. And you know a Porsche. By for those who don't know,
a lot of the Porsches are rearengine cars. So if he's going to
put it in the back, Idon't even know how he would do it.

(01:12:18):
He probably has to do it inthe front where the trunk would be,
and he has to do without drillingone hole. And then and then
Diaz said, that motherfucker, Idon't know how he did it. He
got it in there perfectly, didnot drill one hole, and the sound
system sounded like a club on thestreet. Even though I like the classical

(01:12:39):
shit, you know, I likethat old school, classy shit, I
don't blast that new music. Hesaid something else that was racist, but
anyway, I yeah, I'm notgonna repeat what he said, but he
said I like the classy shit.So it's like, okay, great,
But if I wanted to, Icould blast that ship. But so that
was part of the trust here.Anyway. In nineteen eighty seven, so

(01:13:00):
Diaz is in cocaine. A priceof a kilo of cocaine eighty seven thirty
four thousand dollars. That's in eightyseven thirty four thousand dollars. That's so
much money. And the price ofwhat one kilo of cocaine? And you
said, thirty thirty four thirty fourk thirty four thousand. So we're talking

(01:13:25):
selling the Bowery. We're talking,yes, about South, We're talking Mike
sal and Diez is selling three hundredkilos a week, so millions. He
said, I could not get itout quick enough. I did not have
enough time. You said, businesswas that good? So this is going
to help him with his business,And he said, so the upfront cost

(01:13:49):
just to talk to Diaz, justto talk to Mike and Ken was twenty
four thousand dollars just to talk tothem. And then what did they say?
They were going to do right,like consult fee. Yeah, they
had a consult fee. And thenokay, so they got I think they
got eight, eight or ten thousanda week just doing that just to protect

(01:14:13):
them. And then they got extramoney also to get them not only to
get them to put all their stuffin a stash out so that when the
FBI, any organization came to raidthem, it would just be I am
a good business man. I sell. Do you want bread? Do you
want milk? Do you want doyou want paper? Towel? This is
what I have for you. Thisis this is Daz's operation. Ds D

(01:14:35):
operation is at once it's I forgetif it's two or three boldiggas. He
has a few bowdiggas put that thebusiness is in the back for the record,
Like the as is just a criminal, Like he's just a criminal,
but he's a he's a he's abusinessman and a criminal. You gotta have
your front. You gotta have yourfront, you know, right, but

(01:14:57):
he's his front was like it wasn'tlike him and Baron. I think part
of the reasons they were able tooperate for so long was their front really
is it's not like, uh,it's not like some to use an old
word, were using the language episode. It's not like ACCTA look in front.
Yeah no, I mean I wouldgo to this bodega and think this

(01:15:18):
is a bodega. I wouldn't gothere and think yeah right. But like
the same thing with the mafia andorganized crime, like they have like car
washes and and they have lunch whereit's like they're just businesses and they that's
you're not really looking at it asanything else. But the difference between the
mob and this, I think isthe mob still had mafia guys that were

(01:15:40):
very present in the places they kindof wanted to be sure, like they
could just be anybody working at theother Yeah yeah, we're legal, but
step out a lot and you knowwho works here, ye Diez's places.
They couldn't do that. They hadjust random's who they probably knew, but
they just needed to make money.They weren't enforcing. They were just people

(01:16:00):
there to do their job, towork out a bodega. And then the
few people in the back pord ittoo. They watch all right, hey,
welcome to your new job. Loveto have you. Uh, whatever
you do, I'm telling you,whatever you can. You don't even have
to sell a goddamn thing. Idon't give it. You just sit in

(01:16:21):
that chair, occupy that counter.But whatever you do, do not go
through that door to the back.I am telling you. So that's not
the bathroom that is far and away. If you need to use the restroom
that you know, you can gooutside. You can go through that door.

(01:16:44):
Okay, that door, no bode, do not go through that door.
Okay, all right, Well thenthat's your orientation. Have a great
day, all right. So thewas my was my onboarding papers. So

(01:17:08):
so then so this is this hasbecomes a real partnership. Uh they,
like I said, he's gonna namehe's gonna get the cops on the comp
So here are all the services themic production offers you. Okay, So
he's gonna get you to move yourstuff before the dea comes there. He'll
get people that you don't want onyour block. He'll get people that you

(01:17:30):
that you want to get off.He'll basically also police the competition's block so
that people just won't go there becausethey'll run into cops. So he'll park
his car essentially, or park acar a cop car, or have somebody
park a cop car across on thestreet of the competition, so that people

(01:17:50):
who do want to do drug businessthere, they won't do it as often
because the cops there. Have wehave we reached I mean I know that
there was a contract on his head, but have we have we reached the
point of of of bloodshed? Notyet? Not yet? Not yet?
Well, I mean there there stillis a lot of Yeah, I mean,

(01:18:14):
there's still a lot of blodshed happeningin New York. Of course,
of course, I'm saying, like, this is a man now who has
a lot to protect. He does, like he has a lot that he
does that if if one guy wereto come along and be like, hey,
this is uh, this is funck, I'm telling somebody right right,
So we're getting there. But rightnow, Mike has not directly killed anyone.

(01:18:42):
Uh. Diaz may have for sometime, but we're not known about
it yet. But he hints thathe makes he does indeed make problems go
away. But that is Diaz.Uh yeah, So he gets the competition,
he runs their business down. Henot only does he run their business
down, he'll get the cops todo raids on them. So like it's

(01:19:04):
just so much power and he alsogives Diaz police escorts. When he needs
to get from one place to anotherand there's a lot of money in his
in his car, they will escorthim. And Diaz like loves this ship.
He was just telling other people,motherfucker, you want to fuck with
me, I got a police escort, please, and he he gives.

(01:19:25):
He gave Mike. I don't thinkhe has even asked for this. Mike
just loves fucking showing what he cando. He gave Diaz a police approved
bulletproof vest that's an NYPD on it, and there's pictures of like them holding
it, like happy with it.Wow, what else can I do?
Let's see, let's bulletproof. Let'sthrow that in there. It's a good

(01:19:48):
event, all right. So yeahthey were doing all that. Uh they
were getting kilos of cocaine, thousandsof dollars. Uh, let's see.
Sorry. Uh oh yeah, hekeeps using Chicky, he keeps using this

(01:20:15):
motherfucker and his fake badge. He'slike, well, if it ain't broke,
don't fix it. So he's usingthat whenever he needs to. Uh.
Oh, okay. When asked arethey are they worried they're gonna get
caught? Oh oh yeah, theygot another guy now that they get in
just just for what they call allright, because they forgot they still rob
drug dealers. How could I forgetthis? So now they rob but now

(01:20:39):
they're they're robbing of drug dealers hasescalated from cop calls that they end up
using as moments of opportunity to actuallygoing into places where the rival drug dealers
are just or or anyone that worksfor them is just there, like in
another bodega that's not a diaz Onbodega and fucking robbing them. Like they

(01:21:01):
get this other guy named Walter who'sfucking huge and he just beats them up,
takes their money, goes. Sonow there's a fourth guy in the
operation, but that's his main thing. Wow, it is just to beat
someone up and just literally just mugthem. He's got wow, he like
truly just like you know what,I could use a new watch and you

(01:21:26):
know what that means. Do youknow what that means, Walter, that
I need a new watch? Itmeans I need money? Walter. Do
you know where I can get money? Just full psycho people are using money
down there at the store. Thatshould I get the money that their user
get your watch. No, Walter, No, I want your money,

(01:21:50):
Walter, want me to ball.I want you to take the money that
you have out of your pockets andput it in my hands, Walter,
and then I want you to whooptheir ass. So okay, So here's
you asked when things will heat upa bit? So a guy robs Diaz,

(01:22:14):
and Diaz is livid because Diaz says, I got you know, in
the moment for whatever reason that theywere vulnerable. But he's like, what
the fuck I got all these guys? He said, how did I get
robbed? Why don't I put allthese guys in the back of the store
with the guns? Why do IWhy do I do that if they're gonna
rob me? What the fuck?Yeah? So apparently they did get the

(01:22:34):
jump on a guy. There's oneokay, right, because there's one guy
apparently who know. I forget ifthis was at the bodego or the stash
house, but there's wherever the businessis happening that is with the people with
the guns. There's a still oneguy outside that I think has a gun,

(01:22:55):
a concealed gun, or doesn't havea gun, and he's just there
to be the lookout and Apparently theyput the gun to the lookout's head and
made him open the door, andDiaz is like, what the fuck?
Like Diaz found out that's what happened, he said, so I would have
died. I would have died beforeI opened that door. What did I

(01:23:16):
tell you was the first rule whenyou got to this job. Don't go
through that dog. You die ifyou must. All right, So now
now he tells Mike, you gottafuck these guys. All right, you

(01:23:39):
got fuck these guys hard for whatthey did. This is this is the
rival. They robbed him. Findthis guy, and they say, find
this guy. Diaz has. Findthis guy, put him in a car,
and don't ask I'll do the rest. Don't ask any other questions.
So within six or seven days theyfind right, his name is Franklin.

(01:24:02):
They find Franklin. They don't knowwhat happened to the coke. And I
thought it was funny when they saidthat, because I thought maybe they did
the coke and they just said that. But anyway, they don't know what
happened to the coke that he stoleor the money. But they find Franklin.
They put him in the car andthey gave him to Adam Diaz,
and they asked at him, soand then what what happened? And he

(01:24:24):
said, uh, they found him, and uh, he's just not around
anymore. I'm not saying I killedhim. I'm just saying he's not around
anymore. And so they didn't askhim that that's all. That's all he
does. So now they have ledto a death. They have directly.
Now they've now they've connected themselves directlyto assisting what is likely a homicide.

(01:24:48):
Franklin is gone, He's gone,and yeah, all right, uh so
Frankly, Yeah, yeah, Franklin'sgone. Wow. Uh okay, So
the internal affairs guy, oh yeah, so so he's getting right right,

(01:25:13):
so he so internal affairs now startingto hear rumblings just starting huh, they're
just starting to pick up on acriminal empire. Let's become an empire with
death and millions of dollars in cocaineand robberies. Yes, yes, they're
getting rumblings. Okay, So theyget rumblings and the guy at the head

(01:25:38):
of it appears to be this guynamed named Mike, and he drives the
red Corvette. Remember the guy's like, that's weird. I remember there was
a Mic who he drove away froma crime scene in a clown car once.
I can't imagine that's the same Mikey. It almost but but it almost

(01:26:02):
is gonna happen like that because theday Mike drives the car, or one
of the day, I forget it'sthe first day, but one of the
days that Mike drives the car,the red Corvette to the precinct, a
guy from Maternal Affairs there, hepasses it, and he sees Mike passing,
and then go into the head andI wrote as notes, like,

(01:26:26):
pretend there's an Excel sheet, justapply that filter my red corvette get one
line at this point, and it'sthat one. Meanwhile, Mike also has
massive gold chains, the flame clockaround his neck. He's Mike looking good

(01:26:48):
and and the internal affairs guy thisgoes back to what you're saying before.
He said, I passed him,you know, and I passed goes I
passed. Even even the internal fairsguys still sund my cops. I passed
guys all the time. I couldalways tell who's a cop who's criminal.
I walked by Mike and I thoughthe's in here, but h purp,
I feel her pop cop. That'sjust the mind I get. Well,

(01:27:12):
well, you know a broken clockis right something. Yeah, but you
know you know that he came upwith that for the interview. You know,
I had no idea until he actuallystarted putting things together. But he
was like, I couldn't tell himthat I saw him, and I didn't
know. But he's anyway, hethinks that's Mike. I don't think at
this point he even is sure,which to me is wild. Like to

(01:27:33):
me, I'm like, like Isaid, I put that on excel sheet,
I highlight it, get into thefucking superior, and I say,
we got him. But whatever,all right, So Mike now has an
idea. How okay, I'm gonnaask you, uh he's already. Let's
let's run down what he's done.So he robs. He robs drug dealers

(01:27:54):
from crime scenes. He gets someoneelse to literally mug drug dealers. He
tells drug dealers when they're about tobe rated so they won't be raided.
He scares away competition's customers. Hegets the competition rated, he will kidnap
and bring the competition to be killed. So what do you think Mike decides
to do next? What do youthink is the next operation. He catches

(01:28:15):
wind of the fact that somebody elseis catching win. I think he kind
of hears it, but not yet. He's adding something to his own.
He's adding something to his What doyou think I mean, there's a lot
on that list already. I mean, does he start getting into selling drugs

(01:28:36):
himself? Yeah? Wow? Andwhere do you think? Think about what
we said earlier. Where do youthink he's going? Right through the back
door? He's walking right through Tas'shop. I don't know what's he doing?
No, no, no, wheredo you think he's going to sell
them? Think about what we saidearlier about Mike. Where is he going

(01:28:58):
to sell them? I'm I reallydon't he's not not what where? Where?
Where? It's your hometown, buddy, He's going back to Suffolk,
He's going back to Why stop inthe city. I live in Stuffer Let's
keep it close to home. What'swhat? What can fucking go wrong?
Yeah? Yeah, that's a greatidea. It's a great idea to attach

(01:29:24):
the crimes that you're committing you towhere you live. Yes, all right,
So so Mike gets the guy,the guy that Mike gets the head
his hometown drug which he's sharing withKenny. You also, I think at
this point lives on He's either inQueens or Long Island at this point,

(01:29:44):
I think he's on Long Island nowtoo. And the guy that he attaches
to this deal's name is Harry.And guess how old. In tradition of
everything else that started this fucking story, guess how old Harry, the head
of the Suffolk County Mike Dowd drugcartel is. Guess how old Harry is?
I want I want you to knowthat I want him to be like
seventy nine years old, Like Ireally wish that he wanted that too.

(01:30:09):
No one will ever expect it,but it's for sure he's nineteen, right,
he's eighteen years old. Yeah,he's eighteen years old. I mean
that tracks like that to me makessense that he would go back and be
like, let me give it toa kid, because a kid's not going
to realize how big this is.Yeah, And then and Ken is like,

(01:30:30):
great fucking idea. I didn't knowwhat I was going to do with
the kid as a kid out ina firefighter, police officer, drug dealer.
It's a test thing first that morningdrug dealer test was next week.
We're really just blank slates in thislife. So Harry and all his wise
estimation selling half a kilo out ofa bar and fifty dollars envelopes, that's

(01:30:55):
how so you know, diaz Ishas this whole operation with like multiple stash
outs, with multiple fronts, andMike's like, Henry, I trust you.
I mean, Harry, Harry,I trust you. Figure it out.
Harry's like, all right, soI'm gonna go in the back of
the bar. I like that Iknow this guy, I don't fucking know.
Uh, Jacomo. Me and Jacomoare are friends. So I'm just

(01:31:18):
gonna be in the like the endof the bar, and I'll just give
it an envelopes. At this point, Mike is also doing cocaine and drinking,
so Mike's probably like, sure,yeah, well he's not he's not.
He's more like, that sounds great, that sounds gonna be at the
end of the bar, that's yeah, that's genius. Yeah, yeah,
nobody ever sells the end of thebar. Everybody else in the back room,

(01:31:40):
which you can't go just on theend of the bar. That's new
thinking, Harry, You're a genius, right right. That's the energy so
uh, and then he's asked,I'll said, why didn't you think you
were gonna get you know, recordingslike cops don't tell on Cox. Of
course, this is part of what'sgott in him this high, because he's
thought other cops of course know he'sin some weird shit. Also because Mike

(01:32:02):
flaunts it. But he's like,no one's gonna tell on me, but
he's never met a spineless Suffolk cop. Yeah, okay, so one day,
uh, I think. But butat one point Harry gets like it's

(01:32:23):
not Mike but Kenny. At onepoint Ken is like yelling at him because
I think Harry almost did it,like in broad daylight, in front of
people. So there's like some fuckup, but I don't know. If
we don't get there, it's fineanyway. So Kenny's leaving his house Sunday
morning, and we are getting towardsthe end. I know you may have
to go, uh, but butwe're getting there that the plane is landing,

(01:32:45):
The mic down plane is landing.It may not land with everyone,
it may not land well, butit's landing. Yeah, no, no,
absolutely okay. So he's leaving hishouse on a Sunday morning and sees
what he calls, you know,the typical undercover cars. This is Kenny.
So Kenny's seeing undercover cars and hecan spot them. And of course,
because cops make undercover cars so obvious, it's like, okay, we

(01:33:08):
got a black and Palo blackground,vic a black and Pala blackground, VIC
one Dodge charger, you know,black and Paula black. They make it
so obvious. It's not like DevuLanos, you know. So wait,
he sees the cars, and hesees Harry, and Harry's dripping wet with
sweat and he realizes what's going on. Harry got caught, right, and

(01:33:33):
he is now happy. It's like, remember, you're eighteen. You got
thrown into a drug operation and bythese guys that are like the fucking corruption
kings of New York City. Yeah, you're an eighteen year old kid in
something and now the cops catch youand want you to go against them.
Yeah. Yeah, you are sweatingbuckets right now. It's like, oh,

(01:33:56):
Mike sent me, and they're likeMike, Like Mike didn't say,
I don't know anybody named Mike,and like you don't know Mike. I
maybe I know Mike is Mike,a friend of yours. Do you not
like Mike? I like Mike.If you don't like fuck, I don't
know, right, right, Sothat's right, that's right, Okay,
So that's what happened. Harry settled, Harry sold to an undercover, and
the undercover got him, and nowhe in the cover wants him to like

(01:34:17):
get into the right So it's funnythat all of this ends up being taken
down basically because of Harry. Harryended up being like the little piece of
tape that fucked that started this.Doubtful, I have very little doubt that
Harry woke up every day and didn'tthink I'm gonna be the weak link today

(01:34:43):
at eighteen he said, yes,I'll be involved in your drug cartel.
Harry then leads to Kent and Ken. Harry leads to Ken Ken, that
Mike Ken. So then the copshad Harry. But Harry's just the you
know, just the guy there.He does like the small pickens then,

(01:35:05):
but he now gets Ken, who'sMike's main cop. How does he get
to Ken? How does Harry?Is it just because Harry knows where Ken
lives? And I think he givesKen money every so often that he's supposed
to get. So he did that. He and then he showed up dripping,
fucking wet and like it was raining. And then Ken then Ken news
everything at this point, and thenthe cops, then the covers come out,

(01:35:26):
they get Ken. So what endsup happening is this. They they
get Ken ultimately to turn on Mike, which was not easy because Ken,
you know, Ken loves by thedon't I don't want to be a rat
code, Yeah, I don't turnin guys code. So there's this plan

(01:35:51):
and then all right, right,right right, and then Mike the same
day or around that time, comesto the precinct and there's internal affairs there
for him, but they don't arresthim. They say, we want you
to just take a piss test becauseright now, of all the things Mike
is doing, I think the onlything they really have is that he's drunk

(01:36:15):
in cocaine. Yeah, because becauseMike showed up and he was, he
was probably trying to cover it upby showing up. He probably was like,
like, ah, you heard aboutthis Mike guy. He seems like
a pretty big problem. And Ithink he had cocaine in his bucket.
I think it was either he hadit then or he's changing pants at some
point and the cocaine falls out ofhis pocket. But at some point cocaine

(01:36:39):
makes an appearance. Okay, there'sI bet Mike is to blame for this.
I hope we get that guy.Okay, So now, uh let's
see all right, So I don'tknow Mike to this. I could not
understand why this happened. Mike justpretty much throws in there. So there's

(01:36:59):
a Columbian living in my apartment.And I'm like, as one has like
like this is what Mike says?Yeah, I think it's one of his
I think he has multiple apartments atthis point, and does a Colombian Like
a Colombian? Is he from Columbia? He could have been in New Yorker
all his life? Who the fuckis he? There is like Colombian living
in Mike's apartment, right, Sowe don't know exactly why that is?

(01:37:28):
Uh? Is it? Yes?There is? Okay, Okay, okay,
But I think what we end upfinding out is that guy. I
think he's also an informant. Ithink, uh, this is how it's
introduced. Though, there's the Columbianmy apartment, no backstory, we don't
know how he got there. Oneof his homes in Brentwood. That's that

(01:37:50):
is Long Island, right, sohe has a homement. Okay, he
says, uh, that guy ishearing what's happening with Mike. Yeah,
yeah, this my sense that he'san informant now looking back, and he's
like, listen, they'll throw thehammer at you. They're gonna throw you
away, as if that's what copsalways get. A lot of times cops
don't get much, if at all. But no, Mike has kind of

(01:38:11):
done the world record here. Atleast Mike has almost gone out of his
way to make sure that wouldn't bethe case. Right. So, so
the Colombian living in his apartment suddenlygets very again, don't know why's here?
Somehow it gets which which again Mike, we should know why. It's
like this starting to make sense whyhe's the informant Now he's so random.
You know, you're you're riding highin your like on top of your coke

(01:38:38):
empire. A Columbian moves in andthat is like that's like just Wednesday,
right, right, that's just likeright right exactly, Like you're not thinking,
like, what's this Columbian doing here. It's just like, oh,
you're here now, okay, soyou're a part of this all right,
cool, cool, cool, justkeep it cool. Just this can be
your apartment for a little while,right, that shows your success. Like

(01:38:58):
it's funny how a little bit ofracist kind of gets Mike in now because
he just thinks Colombians, I guess, in cocaine and that this would happen
instead of like analyzing this moreeotypes Columbianmystery. I would say, right,
everything's a mystery. The second it'sLatino and I'm a little confused. So

(01:39:20):
this guy, he's very interested inwhat's happening with Mike, and he says,
look, they'll throw the book atyou. Here's what you gotta do.
And now he's got plans for him. He says, you know you
lead the country, lead the country. I know a guy who can help
you get out of the country,like I guess, make the passports,
facilitate everything. You just got todo a job for him. And it's

(01:39:43):
basically to kidnap a woman who hasbeen telling on a guy that Colombian knows
who's I guess drug affiliated, andhe's she's a scorned wife or girlfriend and
is like angry, so again appealingto things Mike knows of, like kind
of nos and like she's gotta go. Okay, so you kidnap her and

(01:40:04):
you throw her in a car.Again it's the same thing he did with
Diaz. Mike. They've they've reallygot this system that Mike's involved in where
you just leave somebody in a carand someone else takes care of it.
Which I'm again it makes sense nowbecause he's done that before, so they
must have said set it up likeit was done before, so Mike will
be more likely to do it.And and then the guy's gonna take her

(01:40:25):
from the car and kill her.Okay, so Mike tells Ken. Remember
so now Ken is with the internalaffairs, So now all the calls are
going to be recorded, So getready for this one. Can you tell
me that story as loudly and asslowly as possible. Doesn't even need to

(01:40:46):
because it's Mike Mike. Mike hasnot a fear in the world. It's
just like you know that didn't evensay a word. He got on the
fun and said, Ken, we'rekilling a woman today. And not only
that, but it was that theirplan was all right, we were gonna
open the door with We were gonnaknock and say you got flowers? Okay,

(01:41:09):
we were gonna open the door withflowers. And then when she opened
the door, she was gonna seeflowers. What was the worst that could
happen? She thought, flowers?Of course, you have flowers for you.
You're a beautiful woman. You getflowers, and then you're gonna drop
the flowers and then we're gonna takeyou. And wouldn't you fucking know it?
A week before somebody killed a womanand was delivering them flowers. So
Ken, this is so fucked up. Like he's telling this them on the

(01:41:31):
phone. He's like, the flowerthing. Are you watching the news?
He said on the news right now? Did you see the flower thing?
Ken's like, oh, this isrecording and Ken is like yeah, yeah,
Mike, I saw the flower thing, and then Mike, and then
Mike ultimately says, I forget ifit's on the phone or lady. It's
like, well, how many guyswith flowers and guns really could there be?
Let's keep it going. That's howhe's still plans in motion. Plans

(01:41:54):
in motion. Okay, so they'regonna kidnap. This is very naice kinapper
and killers. So they drive there. She's in I think she's in Queens.
So they go to the place thatthey're supposed to kidnap her, and
Mike has a police again something othercriminals have a police scanner, but it's

(01:42:19):
like a police scanner, not inhis cop car. He has a police
scanner with him all the time.And it's not to help this fellow officers.
It's to make sure he doesn't getcaught. Yeah, okay, so
oh right, that's when they gotshot at. I'm sorry interval that I'll
probably cut earlier they do this.I think the one thing that Mike says

(01:42:43):
he was proud, well he wasn'tproud, But there's an officer that was
shot in the middle of Mike doinghis run arounds, and this is the
thing I think he's also most regrettablethat, like he had a moment to
be a cop cop where he tookthe officer who was shot and put him
in a car, his car insteadof an ambulance to do it faster,

(01:43:08):
and then they were getting shot atby the people who shot him. I
think it was it was one ofthe gangs that he was trying to fight.
That was he was trying to fightfor Adam Diaz against or was somewhere
else and no, maybe it wasin Brooklyn. I forgot where, and
unfortunately that cop dies and Mike.A lot of people say that Mike,

(01:43:28):
like they they Mike's trying to say, did something honorable by doing that,
and he's like, no, youshould have been doing things like that all
the time. Yeah, as asas the honorable thing, you shouldn't just
yeah, yeah you should. Youshould have just done it once. Okay,
So anyway, that was that wasThat was what I remember. Anyway,
So now there's a scan because Iremember he heard that over the scanner

(01:43:49):
and that's why he stopped to getthat guy. But anyway, so now
he has a scanner and he hearscops talking to each other on the scanner
as they pull up to the buildingwhere there's a to do the kidnapping.
So Mike gets scared and he turnsaround and goes Remember Ken is in the
car with him. So Michael's toKenny, said, Kenny, someone rated,

(01:44:11):
how the fuck did they know wewere gonna be here? And Kenny's
like in the car with Mike.So he's like, I don't know,
like you said, someone must haverad it. So he's just trying to,
Uh, he's just trying to,like U put him like, push
him off, push him off.Ken goes home and and Mike goes home,

(01:44:39):
and I forget if they do arrestthem it and so so he's able
to convince him long enough on thecar ride, and I forget if Mike
goes home, if they I thinkthey go home separately, and I think
I forget if they get arrested separately, or if only Mike gets arrested.
But I remember when Mike gets ohright, right right. When Mike gets
to Kenny's house, there's almost nothingin the house because he wanted to first,

(01:45:01):
I guess, make sure Kenny gothome, okay or whatever. There's
almost nothing in Kenny's house because Kennywas probably I think, gonna go into
witsec or he was gonna something,he was gonna move, And Mike is
like, Kenny, where the fuckare you gonna sit on the floor,
Kenny, your house is empty?The fuck are you doing? All the

(01:45:24):
money we're making? And this isanother thing that reminds me of the wipe
bonding thing. Uh, he couldn'tgo in at first, to Kenny's house
because his wife is in the shower, and it's like, your wife's in
the shower. I've seen her,We've known each other years. I've seen
your wife like what she just won'tlost around naked in front of you,
Mike. Anyway, so we bondedover wives come on and the implications,

(01:45:51):
yeah, I don't want to evenI think honestly, I think it's just
Mike like putting worth his his masculinitythat like, well boys by now it's
just our wives. Yeah about tits? Are tits anywhere? So Kenny's like,

(01:46:13):
Mike, don't you know we're sellingthe house. And to Kenny's credit,
I don't know if he did thisbefore or after he was cooperating,
but he did say he was thinkingof selling his house. So Mike,
that's what did it. That's whatreally let Mike believe him. So I
don't know. If Kenny didn't saythat, he may have been more suspicious.
But he said, say by yourwife for me, and then he
leaves. Okay, so later Ibelieve when he I forget if it's when

(01:46:38):
he gets home, but he getsarrested and that and then Mike, do
I have the sentences. Here Mikegets is this stab that gets twelve years.
I think it's stabbed that got twelveyears. I think Kenny got very

(01:47:00):
little because of his cooperation. Sure, I would say twelve years might not
be enough. Yeah, for ourI mean, as much as I don't
like a car soil system, ifwe're keeping everything, even twelve years for
everything Mike did, I mean,he is implicated in at least one disappearance,

(01:47:24):
right, at least one because alongwith the other one, which which
is the only thing it's interesting,that's the only thing he doesn't admit.
He admits all the shit he did, but he said, I would have
never kidnapped that woman. But it'slike, Mike, we got it along
tape. Mike, you were,you were driving up to the house.
Mike Man, we're gonna scare,We're gonna give a flowers. We're gonna

(01:47:45):
give it. I would never wentthrough with it. But in the world
twelve that it wasn't his well,or that wasn't his idea, but or
that Kenny talked him into it.He didn't. He didn't take responsibility for
even though it's not true. Butthe thing is, and and in wake
of this, wait before I getthere. Mike also says something interesting.

(01:48:05):
He says, mike wife. SoMike's wife was told by Kenny's wife something
like if we what was it,if we don't see you again for a
while, I love you, orlike something very and then Kenny's wife to
Mike's wife. And then Mike's wifetells Mike that I think after he gets

(01:48:27):
arrested, and he's like what,He's like, the fuck? Why didn't
you tell me that you didn't thinkit was pertinent. He's like, oh
my, I think I think it'sAnd that's how they do. That's how
they bonded. After all, Whywives? Why? And he remember he
had a drinking problem at this pointalso, so the things that were the

(01:48:50):
bonds ended up. So uh.When Mike found out that Kenny's helped him
help the police, he said,it was like my wife cheated on me.
That's how That's how strong it was. So yeah, Then the Moreland

(01:49:11):
Commission was created by Cuomo and Dinkins, and the Moreland Commission did police corruption.
Of course, it's been extremely successful. There is no police corruption anymore.
It's over. They did it.It's over. In a post racial,
post corruption world. Ever, sinceObama got elected. Thank you,
Mario Cuomo. Yeah, Mario morethan more than Andrew uh uh. Anyway,

(01:49:38):
so uh yeah, that's a storyof Mike down in the seventy five.
What a travesty, I know.And it went on for so long,
it went on for it was basicallya decade, close to a decade,
close close to it. Yeah,close to a decade of of Mike
things. Mike had his hands in, you know it. You know,

(01:50:02):
it does introduce the question, Yeah, you know almost ten years have absolute
power for like twelve years of jailtime. Yeah, there's a balance out.
I don't know is he out yet? He's out. I think he's
out. I think he's because whenI saw the I believe he's out on

(01:50:25):
like supervised release on something. Iwonder if I wonder if he's on Myrtle
beach. I sure hope, becauseI'm sure. God that is just what
a horrible, horrible thing, whata terrible man. Yeah, and you
know, the question that was askedagain, like it was asked so many

(01:50:47):
times, what this is the thingI liked about part of the documentaries that
they made it beyond Mike because somany people can look at his say,
Mike's the bad apple. Well it'slike no, Well a tree was nat
did to make Mike operate? Yes, you needed the tree, Yes,
And Mike when asked what is agood cop? It was all the things

(01:51:09):
that let him operate was what itmeant to be a good cop, and
all the things that was a badcop were essentially all the things that would
have stopped Mike from operating. Likeyeah, so that's what came out of
this hearing essentially. And of course, the other great thing when they ask
him about integrity training and he goes, well, sort of. That's why
I was like, keep that inmind, because you're gonna see all the

(01:51:30):
ways that the integrity training was it. Well, when it's a joke,
you get Mike Dowd. That's whathappens when it's a joke. Yeah.
Wow, that is truly a terrible, terrible tale. And like, yeah,
exactly, like you said, likethose things which described a bad cop,

(01:51:51):
which was a cop who might ratout his fellow police officer and a
cop who might not do what theother cop is doing, like those are
good things, Like it is goodto have an individually minded police officer having

(01:52:12):
a community minded approach being like,Hey, that's not good what you're doing,
and you shouldn't be a cop andthat like that for him, I
should have been a fire. Ohgod, that is just too awful.

(01:52:33):
Wow. Yep. So sources forthis were mainly the documentary Seven to five
and multiple online articles about Mike Dowd. You could find out, yeah,
basic searches on him in the sevenfive. The seven five is still a
very famous precinct altogether. But Ithink what Mike Dowd showed was that the

(01:52:57):
seven to five it It's not He'snot the bat. He's an example that
got caught. He's not the rarity. He's just the guy that really pushed
it to the limit. But thereare other people who could have been a
Mic Dowd and will be micd Oudsbecause of the system. Just just for

(01:53:19):
for the audience right now, Yeah, it is important that you all go
and look at the picture which isnow on his Wikipedia page, which is
him standing in front of the posterfor the movie about his crime, smiling.

(01:53:42):
He I mean, that is exactlywhat I would expect. It's exactly
that's it. That's it. Becauseto him, I think some of this,
I think he has a bit ofintrospection. But at the Oh my
god, you're right, that's horrible. He's truly proud. He still likes

(01:54:04):
being a feast. Oh my god. Yeah, I think he still doesn't
fully get it. I think hemay get a few things, but I
don't think he gets a severity ifhe both imposing with the man like what

(01:54:24):
like he's a this is not No, he's not. Like he's not a
celebrity for a good reason. Yeah, why was he back in the precinct.
They should have let him back.And he's never going far. He's
never at least headquarters. Yeah,because this, I mean, he went
to jail and he got out andhe said I wouldn't. This is fun.

(01:54:48):
Now, this is a fun thingthat I did. Jesus. I
mean, who knows what kind ofprotection he had in jail, right,
he could have had other cops thatwent to jail for corruption. They could
have made a network. But youknow, this is also the bad thing
about jails, of course, isthat I mean, what did Mike Dowd

(01:55:08):
really learn in jail? Nothing?Nothing. He probably, for all we
know, got more criminal contacts nowhe could do to do other things.
I mean, I don't I don'tknow if he's going to. But you
know, this is the other thingabout jails, and I mean there's no
real healing, reform, rehabilitation,any of that. So anyway, it's

(01:55:31):
of course not the entire problem,not the entire system. It's a bad
but this actor shows sort of Idon't want to say the absolute ceiling,
but one of the ceilings that thissystem can have. When you are a
quote unquote good cop and fulfill thatthroughout your career, it can get this

(01:55:51):
terrible. It can get there couldbe this much abuse of power. Yeah,
and you know, if that's you, one day, you can go
to jail for twelve years, getout, and then be on the Joe
Rogan podcast, which I have justdiscovered he was in twenty fifteen. He
was a guest on the Joe RoganExperience. And Joe Rogan is wearing a

(01:56:14):
shirt for the seven five, forthe seven five. He's loving this.
This man learned nothing. This manwas rewarded exactly Ultimately, he's rewarded.
So ultimately is the bad apple evena bad apple? Do we even do
we even do we even care?The whole tree is rotten, The whole

(01:56:34):
tree is well, thank you.This was as brolic as a brolic could
be. Uh, thank you,said, Butter Parsnips. How many seasons
are you in by now? Butter, no, Parsnips. We don't know
when I say not, but weactually don't do seasons. We've just been

(01:56:55):
We've just been releasing an episode everyweek for the past year and some change
now since October of twenty twenty two. Yeah. Wow, so you almost
started exactly when we started. Yeah, yeah, all right, Well,
thank you so much. It's alwaysgreat to have you. Yes, And

(01:57:16):
when do you do you release ona specific day? We release every Monday,
every Monday, all right, socoming up next Monday. Any hints
on the word anything you want todrive? It's actually it's going to be
a guest episode, so keep anear out. Good. All right,
Thanks Seth, and thanks everyone else. Thank you.

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22 - Michael Dowd and the Seven Five

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