July 30, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode, Chris Tatge, the founder and president of DC Materials & Dynamic Construction, shares his incredible journey from starting as a 20-year-old framing contractor to becoming a leader in the construction industry. We discuss the importance of mastering the office, building strong partnerships, and embracing new technologies in construction. Chris also emphasizes the significance of relationships, mentorship, and staying true to commitments in achieving success.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, I'm Louperez and we are at episode thirteen
of The Builder Upper Show, a podcast where we talk
about everything in construction and trades.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Now, let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I would like to welcome our guest, Chris Tacci, Founder
and President of DC Materials.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Chris, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good? I'm doing having a great day. Thanks for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Luke, Hey, my pleasure. I'm really excited that you're on
the show. We've met a few times in person. I
just feel like, you know what, I need to have
this guy on The Builder Upper Show. He's awesome and yeah,
I'd love for you to tell everybody your story.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So when did you get into construction?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I started framing in nineteen ninety seven, so twenty seven
years ago, seventeen year old kid was working at Pizza
Hut in the mornings as a prep cook and had
a youth pastor who was general contracting his own house.
I went out there teered to work, and one of
(01:03):
the contractors helping out notice I was a hard worker
and offered me a job. Sort of that sort of
parlayed into, you know, start working full time for this
small GC. He couldn't keep me busy enough, so a
friend of his was a framing contractor, agreed to hire
this now eighteen year old kid, who at least was
(01:26):
a hard worker. You know, I didn't do well in school.
I barely graduated high school, didn't get good grades, didn't
think I was too smart. And when I started framing
and I started swinging a hammer, I was really good
at it, and I was better than most people at it.
(01:48):
So by the time I was twenty years old, I
had a contract to frame twenty six houses and two employees,
and that was sort of that was my first delve
into self employment, business ownership, all of that. Throughout the
years in different iterations, I've worked for other companies, at
(02:11):
one point as a production manager managing one hundred and
ten carpenters building two hundred and fifty single family homes
a year and some multi family projects. Got into multifamily
during the two thousand and seven slowdown, learned how to
build big buildings, read the big boy prints, write structural
architectural drawings, all that stuff. Enjoyed it. Was always really
(02:37):
a leader in what I was doing, and so kept
I stayed in multifamily, sort of working for other people,
working out on my own. In twenty thirteen, I started
my company, Dynamic Construction, labor only framing contractor building multi
family buildings. So we sixty thousand square foot building and
(03:02):
I'd have my fifteen employees. We'd build that building over
the course of a couple months, and I'd keep the
money that was left over at the end right or
tool belt every day, read the print, ran the guys
job foreman all that stuff. I thought that was the
pinnacle of success for framing contractor for guy who did
(03:24):
what I did. Two thy fourteen, I meet a bunch
of carpenters who were members of the National Framers Council.
These guys were framers, but they were also businessmen. They
were successful, they had office staff, They did a lot
of things that I didn't know. I didn't understand. One
(03:46):
of the biggest differences with what they did and what
I was doing is they bought and sold their own lumber,
so they would cut out the lumber yards. They would
keep that peace and profit from the lumber sale. But
the most important part is they'd gained control over the
success their job by controlling the material and the material flow.
(04:11):
In Wisconsin, I had always been beholden to these lumberyard
guys who once they there's I know a lot of
really good lumber dealers, lumber salesmen who care about the job.
There's also guys who get the sale and they sort
of peace out right. They're happy to just collect their
checks and send out loads whenever I call. They weren't
(04:35):
interested in my success. So controlling the material when it
shows up, how it shows up, the order it shows up,
and streamlined my labor. It allowed me to be profitable
on the lumber side of things, which allowed me to
pay out a lot of the labor income to make
(04:55):
sure I had the best carpenters working for me and
have schedule success. So sold my first lumber package in
twenty nineteen. Between twenty and twenty and twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty two, our company grew by eleven hundred and
(05:16):
twenty six percent, and that put us on the Ink
five thousand list of fastest growing companies in America. Last
year we were five hundred and thirty ninth. So that's
the that's sort of the cliff notes of the last
twenty seven years of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I would like to unpack it a little bit,
so you definitely gave me the cliff notes, and I
appreciate that, but I know that there is some there's
some stories in there. So you mentioned I think you
said you were twenty six when you pretty much I
think that's when you became an owner for the first.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Twenty years old. At twenty I was twenty years old
and I had absolutely no business starting a business.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Wow, Okay, do you remember, like even to think back
when you were and put yourself in that twenty year
old shoes, you know what was really driving you to
be an owner at that age?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It seemed like fun it, you know, it seemed like fun.
And I think as sort of obviously blissfully ignorant, right,
twenty year old kid wet behind the years, but it
seemed like fun. And and for me, I think I've
been able to keep that attitude as a sort of
(06:38):
become middle aged and a businessman and all this. If
it seems like fun, I kind of want to do it,
and I was. I'd say that a lot. It's a
big it's a big fun game. And I think keeping
that mindset for me has helped me not take things
too seriously, not buy into my own success. I think
(07:01):
there I think there's some undue pressure you can put
on yourself if you take it all too seriously. So
when I was a kid, it seemed like fun, a
cool thing to do, and and something that would impress
girls when I went out to the bar that I
had my company.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Did you did you take any wood shop in high
school anything like that?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah? I took. Uh. I took construction class, which was
two periods a day in the afternoon. Mister Martin learned
the basics of framing. Uh kind of understood my way
around basic hand tools, but most of what I learned
I learned on the job site.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, so then you had the skilled trade down. Did
you take any classes for business?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No? No, you know, I'd read a book here and there,
but I really didn't. I didn't know anything about business management.
I think. I think there's a lot of guys like
me who they're young and they get out on their
own and they're really good at whatever it is they're doing.
(08:13):
Your roof first side, or your frame or your plumber,
really good at all those things. There's not a lot
of us who are good at the office stuff, who
know how to write an Excel spreadsheet, formula or look
at understand cash flow. Right when I started Dynamic Construction,
(08:36):
I got some I got accounting management software and I
learned it learning that Really people ask me for advice,
That's the best advice I can give is taking the
time to learn those things and understand those things are
It's gonna be a huge differentiator between you and your
(09:00):
competitors if if you understand how to quickly get a
certificate of insurance to your general contractor customer when they
need it, that sets you apart from the other guy
who who's probably yelling over a cell phone to the
same guy you were trying to win bids with, causing chaos.
(09:23):
So being organized on the office side of things is
a great way to set yourself apart.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's great. I like that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So just being concentrating on that business side, it's like,
you know, when do you put on that collared shirt
and then really buckle down on the on the office
side of things. When in twenty nineteen when you made
that first sale, it was the first lumber sale, yep,
what was that experience like for you? Like what was
(09:53):
the build up and then when it happened? Like I
would love to love to hear that.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
So I'm in multi family big buildings right in Wisconsin's
a two step market. That is, general contractor buys, buys
lumber and components, trustes from a lumberyard. Lumberyard buys all
that stuff from wholesalers component manufacturers. General contractor then brings
(10:22):
in a separate labor only framing contractor and puts it
all together. We had interest's first turnkey package right, so
supply chain was a big part. I didn't know anything
about supply chain. I didn't understand relationships and supply chain.
I didn't know how to play those cards properly. But
(10:42):
I spent about a year and a half sort of
talking to people, potential vendors, people who could help support
my business and sort of selling my vision for what
I could do and what we could be, asking those
people to sort of take a risk on me and
sell to me because I need a way to buy
(11:03):
lumber cheaper. Then you can buy it at when Arts,
you know, the big box store. So that took a
little while, putting together different parts and pieces, a lot
of learning and a lot of trust in the people
who had a financial interest in my success. Right first
lumber sale, we started company DC Materials so, and the
(11:28):
first lumber sale through that company in twenty nineteen was
almost double our revenue for twenty eighteen in dynamic construction. Wow,
double our annual revenue. So it was a huge jump
for us in terms of numbers. Joe's thrilling, right, And then.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You must have been some sort of celebration. Y.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, we were, we were. We were jumping and cheering,
and you know, then the reality of okay, well now
I have to deliver all that. Yes, I have to
fulfill this contract that have landed, so sort of it was.
(12:18):
It was a thrilling moment for us. It was a
realization of something we'd been dreaming about and working for
for over a year. You know, since then, we're the
fastest growing building material supplier in Wisconsin. We're now the
largest framing contractor in Wisconsin. So those people who sort
(12:41):
of took a risk on me and agreed to sell me.
And even though it's sort of the risk involved making
our other customers existing customers angry, it's paid off for
all of those people. Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I would love to even unpack. So you're the largest.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Now largest framing contractor.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
How do you become the largest framing contractor.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Is that is that relationships? Is it you know? Is
it reputation? I would love to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's it's a it's a lot of it's all of that.
It's so uh when you're selling a big building, Uh,
you're a you're asking for contracts that are worth millions
of dollars right, so on on on its face, I
(13:35):
I have to be a trustworthy person. I have to
be a person who does what he says is going
to do. So just those relationships that I can walk
into a room and a general contractor knows that I'm
going to be able to deliver, it's a big, big deal.
The the cost to carry an interest right now to
build an apartment building is developers are spending hundreds of
(13:57):
thousands of dollars to serve the debt on the buildings
that they're building that are not being rented out for
another six months. So if I take eight weeks to
build a building, or if I take twelve weeks to
build a building, there's tens of thousands of dollars of
(14:18):
success or failure for the developer GC whoever is at
the end of that right. So, being able to deliver
on time, hit schedule, goals consistently is a big, big deal.
We're unique that again, because we have the lumber and
we have the labor, I can make unique value propositions.
(14:40):
I can look at a plan as a framer, and
I understand how to make my labor go faster, how
to tweak a plan. And I can look at the
material that's spect plate species, so the bottom and top
plates of a building. If you build a one hundred
thousand square foot building and you specify dug fur larch
(15:03):
top and bottom plates, and I can come in and say,
and this is nerdy wood stuff. I can come in
and say, I can swap that out for southern yellow
pine MSR twenty four hundred and save you fifteen thousand
dollars right away. That's a big deal, right. There's other
products that I can bring to the table that lumberyards
(15:25):
separately can also bring to the table. But then that
general contractor has to go to their labor only framing
contractor and say, hey, how is this going to affect
your price? I can speak to both, and so when
I do an initial proposal, I can put a lot
of value engineering opportunities out there immediately speak for both
sides of that construction process. It really helps me differentiate
(15:47):
myself from my competitors.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a really strong value proposition. Yes, I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That's awesome. It is the way that you articulated it
was perfect. That's great.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I articulated a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I definitely, Yeah, I believe it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So as far as like, you know, entrepreneurship, you really
you really seem self taught. You probably went through a
lot of trial and error. Yeah, did you do you
take these learnings and are you like any type of
mentor for any newer entrepreneurs or anything like that, Like
do you you went through all of this and you
(16:25):
know you're you are a success, so you know what
do you give some do you do some sort of
give back or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah. I'm very involved with the National Framer's Counsel, the
organization that sort of showed me what I could do
and be. I'm their past president, so I serve on
the steering committee. I'm the chairman of our Framer Summit,
which is our annual event. This year's in Milwaukee in October.
(16:54):
So if you're a framer and you're listening, uh, come
to my event shameless. So you know, I do a
lot of media, and I often say, if you want
to learn more, if you want to hear more, than
call me. I was in the airport in Seattle last
(17:16):
week and Framer from Louisiana gave me a call. He's
a labor only guy wants to get into turnkey, and
within fifteen minutes I had him connected via email with
people who could help him out, help him learn how
to grow his company in that direction. So I kind
of I like to put myself out there and say, hey,
(17:40):
this industry has been really good to me. It's given
me my confidence, it's given me my livelihood, and if
you want help, I will spend time on the phone
helping you. I've had a lot of mentors over the years,
George Hull, Kenny Schifflet, Scott Stevens, all very very hugely
(18:00):
successful guys who didn't need to give me the time
of day, who spent time on the phone mentoring me,
And and I'm more than happy to do that with
anybody who's trying to find success in framing.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Do you attribute a lot of your success to those
individual mentors?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, just just peer groups in general,
being able to call up other people who are in
your industry or outside of your industry, in leadership positions
in business. Having those resources available it's I mean, it
(18:35):
can really save years off the learning curve, especially in construction,
where most of the learning I did over the years
was through failure. Right and and once you once you're certain,
once you hit certain scale failures, failures are not just
like I got to tighten up the belt this week
(18:57):
because I lost two thousand dollars on a job. Failures
get a lot more expensive when you're at scale and
big ale. To head that off by talking with mentors
and peer groups, it pays itself back really quickly.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, would you?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So if you look back and really think about it,
is there something that you wish you knew now that
you didn't know back then.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I sort of spent the first twenty twenty five twenty
years of my career. I mentioned this earlier, Right, I'd
reached a pinnacle of success, fifteen employees building one building
at a time, and I was limited by what my
market would show me. I was limited in the way
(19:52):
I could think creatively because of what surrounded me. Overcoming
sort of that self impluence posed limitations. It has been
a huge part of my success. I Ah, you know,
say why not? Why can't I do that? Why can't I?
I'm opening my own lumber yard, We're just about done
(20:15):
with the build out. I'm gonna be I'm gonna hang
an open sign up in a couple of months. And
and uh and and that was a why not? Right.
I don't want to be limited by what others are
doing around me, what I think, I I know and
don't know, so that that's a big deal. I I
(20:41):
like to I like big ideas, and I like trying
to execute those big ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Now awesome, So okay, you have success. Is there any
secrets behind that success that you feel like, I don't know,
maybe open the door for others to get started, or
(21:06):
maybe they're thinking about their business today that they aren't
thinking about what Maybe something that you know about.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah again, construction. Doing what you say you're going to
do and not saying something that you're going to do
something that you're not sure you can do is a
big differentiator if you're in the single family world, calling
homeowners back or just answering the phone in general sets
(21:35):
you apart. Big level, big idea entrepreneur really want to
go after it and get it. There's sort of there's
this whole world of knowledge out there that it's it's
really easy. It's really easy to it's really easy to
(21:57):
find success, to make some money, and to sit back,
I can say I'm going to rinse and repeat and
do this over and over again for the next twenty years.
There's a lot of things that business owners don't dive
into and don't understand because they get complacent with where
they're at. An entrepreneur trying to look for different angles,
(22:19):
different avenues, different things and nobody's ever looked at before.
Understanding understand you know this is this is getting a
little minushi, but understand debt, finance, banking relationships, Understanding the
m and a market supply chain. Understanding all of that.
(22:42):
The way I built my business. The way you get
fast growth, I guess the way you get fast growth
is aligned interests finding value. Right, So under standing the
vendors you work with, Understanding the subcontractors who work for you,
(23:04):
what they're what they value most, what's important to them,
where they need to get wins helps me identify common value. Right.
And so if there's something that my component manufacturer can
do differently and they'll they'll make an extra two p
(23:25):
off of every package they sell to me, but it
doesn't cost me any time or money. Let's identify that
and execute that, and you're winning and we strengthen our partnership. Right,
And is there a thing that they can do for
me that really doesn't take a lot on their side.
So if you're aligning interests, treating everybody like a partner,
(23:45):
an actual partner, not just this sort of you know,
not just giving sort of not just throwing that word
around cheaply. Uh, that really helps you scale.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, partnership. You know, people do throw around
that that word quite a bit, but you know who
your true partners are when you actually go through something
with them. I'm guessing you probably have that experience it.
Can you think of any specific partners that come to
mind when you approached a deal or something where you
(24:26):
felt like the partner really came through and helped you,
help you land it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, there's there's a lot. There's so I my component
manufacturer Automated Products, John D's is the president to that company.
Is John is willing to bend over backwards to get
my guys what they need when they need it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Our cell is we'd one week walls, one week floor,
no matter what the footprint of the building is. John
makes sure I get that when I need it right.
So he's he he spends time dug into schedules. You
know another guy, Tim aspinwall shelter products I buy. I
(25:12):
buy a lot of semi loads of wood from that guy.
And if if I the way the way you buy
and sell wood, the wood market moves all the time,
and I pay a lot of attention to it. I
might give a general contractor price for one hundred thousand
square foot building, and then a month and a half
later he calls me and wants to buy that building right.
(25:34):
Market's gone up since then, and maybe I dropped the
ball and informing my GC customer. Uh. You know, Tim
can go back and he'll tighten up his numbers and
he'll see what he can do so that we can
both get a win. He makes something, he doesn't make
as much as he would have, but it all works
out and vice versa. I pay attention to the lumber
market Tim's. Tim's committed some prices to me. I know
(25:58):
lumbers down and I could ask for lower prices, but
I don't. Wow. So so treating those people with the
respect they deserve for what they do and what they
bring the table is a big part of our success.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
That's great, and that really explains a true partnership instead
of just randomly throwing the word out there. That's a
great example. Great thanks for explaining that. So as far
as Chris, outside of lumber, sure, what what is What
(26:34):
are some of your hobbies that you do outside of construction?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Oh man, this is good question, and this is I'm
sort of beholden to my own my own work, after
after the after we get done recording here. Today I'm
driving up to northern Wisconsin to do more carpentry work
on the cabin I've been building myself. Oh nice, for
(27:00):
the last two and a half years. So, so my
hobby is carpentry. The other the other part, that's a
big part of who I am. My wife. My wife
is a Finnish citizen and moved to America eight years ago.
We've got a six year old daughter, and so in
(27:21):
the background, Helsinki it's the main church, and so we
get over to Finland a couple of times a year.
So Finnish culture is a big part of our family
speak Finnish to our.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Daughter at home and oh cool.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's that's a little bit of
my personal side.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So then do you bring her to the lumberyard.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
She she likes she likes climbing up on the bunks
and I'm yeah, building stacking blocks and she loves it.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, that's that's you have a better setup than legos.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I've got a thirteen year old on who wants to
do a haunted house this October, and so he comes
and takes all of our old scrap wood. He's been
building things for his haunted house.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That is really cool. How fun that'll be exciting. That
is awesome. So jumping back, I mean you are carpentry,
you are a lumber you are you are the woodsmand
so going back to business, I would love to understand
do you use any type of technology that to help
(28:32):
business be more efficient today?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah? The biggest The biggest thing we're doing is because
we're a panel market, and that means we we we
build with pre constructed walls, analyzed walls. All of our
buildings are designed ahead of time on in software where
(28:55):
we're working out all the bugs. We're figuring out the
different wall eytes, making sure everything is exactly in the
right place. We've got a project right now where there's
an embedded threaded rod, So it's threaded rod that is
welded to pre cast plank, and then there is four
inches of concrete poured around that threaded rod. And this
(29:19):
is all before any of our walls come out, and
it needs to be within three sixteenths of an inch
the right spot. When our walls come out. On a
seventy five thousand square foot footprint, there's two hundred instances
where I have to put these in. So we're designing
(29:39):
this threaded rod into our building, and then we're using
a total station and we're marking out the exact spot
where all this thread rod needs to get placed so
that it lines up with our whole down anchors. Being
able to do all that ahead of time, whereas twenty
years ago it was me standing at a sawhorse with
(30:01):
a two hundred page print referencing six different pages. It's
a world different, right, and being able to do that
and embrace all of that sets us apart from the
guys who are unwilling to look into new technology understand
new technology. Those guys are getting left behind. And the
(30:24):
guys like me and there are other guys like me
in Wisconsin who sort of lean into new opportunities are
the ones who are getting ahead and setting ourselves apart.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, So, if anybody needs a framing contractor like yourself,
where do they find you?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Sure, I'm very active on LinkedIn. You just go on
LinkedIn and search my name. I try to post sort
of amount of posts sort of coincide with how busy
we are. So my website is DC Materials LC dot com.
You can find my phone number and email address there.
(31:06):
Feel free to check out the website and feel free
to email and reach out. It's every couple of weeks
I'm on the phone with a new framer from a
different part of the country. I travel all over the
country sort of learning and understanding the different ways people build.
(31:27):
If you have a need, it's likely that I have
a resource to somebody that I can connect you with
to help you do what you're doing better.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's a great offer. And are you nationwide global? Statewide?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
We're Wisconsin for now. There's a few nationwide framing contractors
and that's you know, that's an idea that sort of
floats around. It's not something I've embraced. We we do
what we say we're going to do right, and I'm
going to grow as long as I can continue to
do what I say I'm going to do. And that's
(32:03):
really the boundary for us. So if we have the
resources to perform in another market or a couple hours
further away from where we normally would work, we do it.
If we don't have those resources, we don't do it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That's smart.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Last question before we wrap up, do you have any
advice for new construction owners that you'd like to share
with our listeners?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Learn? Learn it? He goes back. I saidered earlier. Learn accounting.
Find find software that helps fill in the gaps for
the things that you're not good at. Learn it, watch
YouTube videos, talk to the people who are selling it
(32:52):
to you. Rely on them for you to learn it.
It's a huge differentiator. Most most construction company owners don't
fail because their workmanship sucks. They fail because they don't
understand cash flow, you know, they don't understand accounting, they
don't understand all that office stuff, and they get a
(33:14):
tax bill two years in that they can't afford, and
they go back to work. For someone else. So getting
ahead of that and getting on top of it is important.
And I was very prideful as a carpenter and a
guy who swung a hammer, wore tool belt for ten
hours a day that I wasn't some office guy. And
(33:34):
embracing sort of a little bit of that office guy
self image has helped push me ahead.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I believe it. The bank account probably says it all.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It goes. It's up and down.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
So well, Chris, thank you so much for being a
guest on the show. Please everyone like, subscribe, comment, and
share the Builder Up Show with anyone in the construction industry.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
We will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
Hey everyone, I'm Louperez and we are at episode thirteen
of The Builder Upper Show, a podcast where we talk
about everything in construction and trades.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Now, let's get into it.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I would like to welcome our guest, Chris Tacci, Founder
and President of DC Materials.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Chris, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Good? I'm doing having a great day. Thanks for having
me on.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Luke, Hey, my pleasure. I'm really excited that you're on
the show. We've met a few times in person. I
just feel like, you know what, I need to have
this guy on The Builder Upper Show. He's awesome and yeah,
I'd love for you to tell everybody your story.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So when did you get into construction?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I started framing in nineteen ninety seven, so twenty seven
years ago, seventeen year old kid was working at Pizza
Hut in the mornings as a prep cook and had
a youth pastor who was general contracting his own house.
I went out there teered to work, and one of
(01:03):
the contractors helping out notice I was a hard worker
and offered me a job. Sort of that sort of
parlayed into, you know, start working full time for this
small GC. He couldn't keep me busy enough, so a
friend of his was a framing contractor, agreed to hire
this now eighteen year old kid, who at least was
(01:26):
a hard worker. You know, I didn't do well in school.
I barely graduated high school, didn't get good grades, didn't
think I was too smart. And when I started framing
and I started swinging a hammer, I was really good
at it, and I was better than most people at it.
(01:48):
So by the time I was twenty years old, I
had a contract to frame twenty six houses and two employees,
and that was sort of that was my first delve
into self employment, business ownership, all of that. Throughout the
years in different iterations, I've worked for other companies, at
(02:11):
one point as a production manager managing one hundred and
ten carpenters building two hundred and fifty single family homes
a year and some multi family projects. Got into multifamily
during the two thousand and seven slowdown, learned how to
build big buildings, read the big boy prints, write structural
architectural drawings, all that stuff. Enjoyed it. Was always really
(02:37):
a leader in what I was doing, and so kept
I stayed in multifamily, sort of working for other people,
working out on my own. In twenty thirteen, I started
my company, Dynamic Construction, labor only framing contractor building multi
family buildings. So we sixty thousand square foot building and
(03:02):
I'd have my fifteen employees. We'd build that building over
the course of a couple months, and I'd keep the
money that was left over at the end right or
tool belt every day, read the print, ran the guys
job foreman all that stuff. I thought that was the
pinnacle of success for framing contractor for guy who did
(03:24):
what I did. Two thy fourteen, I meet a bunch
of carpenters who were members of the National Framers Council.
These guys were framers, but they were also businessmen. They
were successful, they had office staff, They did a lot
of things that I didn't know. I didn't understand. One
(03:46):
of the biggest differences with what they did and what
I was doing is they bought and sold their own lumber,
so they would cut out the lumber yards. They would
keep that peace and profit from the lumber sale. But
the most important part is they'd gained control over the
success their job by controlling the material and the material flow.
(04:11):
In Wisconsin, I had always been beholden to these lumberyard
guys who once they there's I know a lot of
really good lumber dealers, lumber salesmen who care about the job.
There's also guys who get the sale and they sort
of peace out right. They're happy to just collect their
checks and send out loads whenever I call. They weren't
(04:35):
interested in my success. So controlling the material when it
shows up, how it shows up, the order it shows up,
and streamlined my labor. It allowed me to be profitable
on the lumber side of things, which allowed me to
pay out a lot of the labor income to make
(04:55):
sure I had the best carpenters working for me and
have schedule success. So sold my first lumber package in
twenty nineteen. Between twenty and twenty and twenty nineteen and
twenty twenty two, our company grew by eleven hundred and
(05:16):
twenty six percent, and that put us on the Ink
five thousand list of fastest growing companies in America. Last
year we were five hundred and thirty ninth. So that's
the that's sort of the cliff notes of the last
twenty seven years of my life.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I would like to unpack it a little bit,
so you definitely gave me the cliff notes, and I
appreciate that, but I know that there is some there's
some stories in there. So you mentioned I think you
said you were twenty six when you pretty much I
think that's when you became an owner for the first.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Twenty years old. At twenty I was twenty years old
and I had absolutely no business starting a business.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Wow, Okay, do you remember, like even to think back
when you were and put yourself in that twenty year
old shoes, you know what was really driving you to
be an owner at that age?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
It seemed like fun it, you know, it seemed like fun.
And I think as sort of obviously blissfully ignorant, right,
twenty year old kid wet behind the years, but it
seemed like fun. And and for me, I think I've
been able to keep that attitude as a sort of
(06:38):
become middle aged and a businessman and all this. If
it seems like fun, I kind of want to do it,
and I was. I'd say that a lot. It's a
big it's a big fun game. And I think keeping
that mindset for me has helped me not take things
too seriously, not buy into my own success. I think
(07:01):
there I think there's some undue pressure you can put
on yourself if you take it all too seriously. So
when I was a kid, it seemed like fun, a
cool thing to do, and and something that would impress
girls when I went out to the bar that I
had my company.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Did you did you take any wood shop in high
school anything like that?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah? I took. Uh. I took construction class, which was
two periods a day in the afternoon. Mister Martin learned
the basics of framing. Uh kind of understood my way
around basic hand tools, but most of what I learned
I learned on the job site.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, so then you had the skilled trade down. Did
you take any classes for business?
Speaker 3 (07:52):
No? No, you know, I'd read a book here and there,
but I really didn't. I didn't know anything about business management.
I think. I think there's a lot of guys like
me who they're young and they get out on their
own and they're really good at whatever it is they're doing.
(08:13):
Your roof first side, or your frame or your plumber,
really good at all those things. There's not a lot
of us who are good at the office stuff, who
know how to write an Excel spreadsheet, formula or look
at understand cash flow. Right when I started Dynamic Construction,
(08:36):
I got some I got accounting management software and I
learned it learning that Really people ask me for advice,
That's the best advice I can give is taking the
time to learn those things and understand those things are
It's gonna be a huge differentiator between you and your
(09:00):
competitors if if you understand how to quickly get a
certificate of insurance to your general contractor customer when they
need it, that sets you apart from the other guy
who who's probably yelling over a cell phone to the
same guy you were trying to win bids with, causing chaos.
(09:23):
So being organized on the office side of things is
a great way to set yourself apart.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's great. I like that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
So just being concentrating on that business side, it's like,
you know, when do you put on that collared shirt
and then really buckle down on the on the office
side of things. When in twenty nineteen when you made
that first sale, it was the first lumber sale, yep,
what was that experience like for you? Like what was
(09:53):
the build up and then when it happened? Like I
would love to love to hear that.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
So I'm in multi family big buildings right in Wisconsin's
a two step market. That is, general contractor buys, buys
lumber and components, trustes from a lumberyard. Lumberyard buys all
that stuff from wholesalers component manufacturers. General contractor then brings
(10:22):
in a separate labor only framing contractor and puts it
all together. We had interest's first turnkey package right, so
supply chain was a big part. I didn't know anything
about supply chain. I didn't understand relationships and supply chain.
I didn't know how to play those cards properly. But
(10:42):
I spent about a year and a half sort of
talking to people, potential vendors, people who could help support
my business and sort of selling my vision for what
I could do and what we could be, asking those
people to sort of take a risk on me and
sell to me because I need a way to buy
(11:03):
lumber cheaper. Then you can buy it at when Arts,
you know, the big box store. So that took a
little while, putting together different parts and pieces, a lot
of learning and a lot of trust in the people
who had a financial interest in my success. Right first
lumber sale, we started company DC Materials so, and the
(11:28):
first lumber sale through that company in twenty nineteen was
almost double our revenue for twenty eighteen in dynamic construction. Wow,
double our annual revenue. So it was a huge jump
for us in terms of numbers. Joe's thrilling, right, And then.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You must have been some sort of celebration. Y.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, we were, we were. We were jumping and cheering,
and you know, then the reality of okay, well now
I have to deliver all that. Yes, I have to
fulfill this contract that have landed, so sort of it was.
(12:18):
It was a thrilling moment for us. It was a
realization of something we'd been dreaming about and working for
for over a year. You know, since then, we're the
fastest growing building material supplier in Wisconsin. We're now the
largest framing contractor in Wisconsin. So those people who sort
(12:41):
of took a risk on me and agreed to sell me.
And even though it's sort of the risk involved making
our other customers existing customers angry, it's paid off for
all of those people. Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah, I would love to even unpack. So you're the largest.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Now largest framing contractor.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
How do you become the largest framing contractor.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Is that is that relationships? Is it you know? Is
it reputation? I would love to Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It's it's a it's a lot of it's all of that.
It's so uh when you're selling a big building, Uh,
you're a you're asking for contracts that are worth millions
of dollars right, so on on on its face, I
(13:35):
I have to be a trustworthy person. I have to
be a person who does what he says is going
to do. So just those relationships that I can walk
into a room and a general contractor knows that I'm
going to be able to deliver, it's a big, big deal.
The the cost to carry an interest right now to
build an apartment building is developers are spending hundreds of
(13:57):
thousands of dollars to serve the debt on the buildings
that they're building that are not being rented out for
another six months. So if I take eight weeks to
build a building, or if I take twelve weeks to
build a building, there's tens of thousands of dollars of
(14:18):
success or failure for the developer GC whoever is at
the end of that right. So, being able to deliver
on time, hit schedule, goals consistently is a big, big deal.
We're unique that again, because we have the lumber and
we have the labor, I can make unique value propositions.
(14:40):
I can look at a plan as a framer, and
I understand how to make my labor go faster, how
to tweak a plan. And I can look at the
material that's spect plate species, so the bottom and top
plates of a building. If you build a one hundred
thousand square foot building and you specify dug fur larch
(15:03):
top and bottom plates, and I can come in and say,
and this is nerdy wood stuff. I can come in
and say, I can swap that out for southern yellow
pine MSR twenty four hundred and save you fifteen thousand
dollars right away. That's a big deal, right. There's other
products that I can bring to the table that lumberyards
(15:25):
separately can also bring to the table. But then that
general contractor has to go to their labor only framing
contractor and say, hey, how is this going to affect
your price? I can speak to both, and so when
I do an initial proposal, I can put a lot
of value engineering opportunities out there immediately speak for both
sides of that construction process. It really helps me differentiate
(15:47):
myself from my competitors.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's a really strong value proposition. Yes, I like that.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That's awesome. It is the way that you articulated it
was perfect. That's great.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I articulated a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
I definitely, Yeah, I believe it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So as far as like, you know, entrepreneurship, you really
you really seem self taught. You probably went through a
lot of trial and error. Yeah, did you do you
take these learnings and are you like any type of
mentor for any newer entrepreneurs or anything like that, Like
do you you went through all of this and you
(16:25):
know you're you are a success, so you know what
do you give some do you do some sort of
give back or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah. I'm very involved with the National Framer's Counsel, the
organization that sort of showed me what I could do
and be. I'm their past president, so I serve on
the steering committee. I'm the chairman of our Framer Summit,
which is our annual event. This year's in Milwaukee in October.
(16:54):
So if you're a framer and you're listening, uh, come
to my event shameless. So you know, I do a
lot of media, and I often say, if you want
to learn more, if you want to hear more, than
call me. I was in the airport in Seattle last
(17:16):
week and Framer from Louisiana gave me a call. He's
a labor only guy wants to get into turnkey, and
within fifteen minutes I had him connected via email with
people who could help him out, help him learn how
to grow his company in that direction. So I kind
of I like to put myself out there and say, hey,
(17:40):
this industry has been really good to me. It's given
me my confidence, it's given me my livelihood, and if
you want help, I will spend time on the phone
helping you. I've had a lot of mentors over the years,
George Hull, Kenny Schifflet, Scott Stevens, all very very hugely
(18:00):
successful guys who didn't need to give me the time
of day, who spent time on the phone mentoring me,
And and I'm more than happy to do that with
anybody who's trying to find success in framing.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Do you attribute a lot of your success to those
individual mentors?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, just just peer groups in general,
being able to call up other people who are in
your industry or outside of your industry, in leadership positions
in business. Having those resources available it's I mean, it
(18:35):
can really save years off the learning curve, especially in construction,
where most of the learning I did over the years
was through failure. Right and and once you once you're certain,
once you hit certain scale failures, failures are not just
like I got to tighten up the belt this week
(18:57):
because I lost two thousand dollars on a job. Failures
get a lot more expensive when you're at scale and
big ale. To head that off by talking with mentors
and peer groups, it pays itself back really quickly.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, would you?
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So if you look back and really think about it,
is there something that you wish you knew now that
you didn't know back then.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I sort of spent the first twenty twenty five twenty
years of my career. I mentioned this earlier, Right, I'd
reached a pinnacle of success, fifteen employees building one building
at a time, and I was limited by what my
market would show me. I was limited in the way
(19:52):
I could think creatively because of what surrounded me. Overcoming
sort of that self impluence posed limitations. It has been
a huge part of my success. I Ah, you know,
say why not? Why can't I do that? Why can't I?
I'm opening my own lumber yard, We're just about done
(20:15):
with the build out. I'm gonna be I'm gonna hang
an open sign up in a couple of months. And
and uh and and that was a why not? Right.
I don't want to be limited by what others are
doing around me, what I think, I I know and
don't know, so that that's a big deal. I I
(20:41):
like to I like big ideas, and I like trying
to execute those big ideas.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Now awesome, So okay, you have success. Is there any
secrets behind that success that you feel like, I don't know,
maybe open the door for others to get started, or
(21:06):
maybe they're thinking about their business today that they aren't
thinking about what Maybe something that you know about.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah again, construction. Doing what you say you're going to
do and not saying something that you're going to do
something that you're not sure you can do is a
big differentiator if you're in the single family world, calling
homeowners back or just answering the phone in general sets
(21:35):
you apart. Big level, big idea entrepreneur really want to
go after it and get it. There's sort of there's
this whole world of knowledge out there that it's it's
really easy. It's really easy to it's really easy to
(21:57):
find success, to make some money, and to sit back,
I can say I'm going to rinse and repeat and
do this over and over again for the next twenty years.
There's a lot of things that business owners don't dive
into and don't understand because they get complacent with where
they're at. An entrepreneur trying to look for different angles,
(22:19):
different avenues, different things and nobody's ever looked at before.
Understanding understand you know this is this is getting a
little minushi, but understand debt, finance, banking relationships, Understanding the
m and a market supply chain. Understanding all of that.
(22:42):
The way I built my business. The way you get
fast growth, I guess the way you get fast growth
is aligned interests finding value. Right, So under standing the
vendors you work with, Understanding the subcontractors who work for you,
(23:04):
what they're what they value most, what's important to them,
where they need to get wins helps me identify common value. Right.
And so if there's something that my component manufacturer can
do differently and they'll they'll make an extra two p
(23:25):
off of every package they sell to me, but it
doesn't cost me any time or money. Let's identify that
and execute that, and you're winning and we strengthen our partnership. Right,
And is there a thing that they can do for
me that really doesn't take a lot on their side.
So if you're aligning interests, treating everybody like a partner,
(23:45):
an actual partner, not just this sort of you know,
not just giving sort of not just throwing that word
around cheaply. Uh, that really helps you scale.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, partnership. You know, people do throw around
that that word quite a bit, but you know who
your true partners are when you actually go through something
with them. I'm guessing you probably have that experience it.
Can you think of any specific partners that come to
mind when you approached a deal or something where you
(24:26):
felt like the partner really came through and helped you,
help you land it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Yeah, there's there's a lot. There's so I my component
manufacturer Automated Products, John D's is the president to that company.
Is John is willing to bend over backwards to get
my guys what they need when they need it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Our cell is we'd one week walls, one week floor,
no matter what the footprint of the building is. John
makes sure I get that when I need it right.
So he's he he spends time dug into schedules. You
know another guy, Tim aspinwall shelter products I buy. I
(25:12):
buy a lot of semi loads of wood from that guy.
And if if I the way the way you buy
and sell wood, the wood market moves all the time,
and I pay a lot of attention to it. I
might give a general contractor price for one hundred thousand
square foot building, and then a month and a half
later he calls me and wants to buy that building right.
(25:34):
Market's gone up since then, and maybe I dropped the
ball and informing my GC customer. Uh. You know, Tim
can go back and he'll tighten up his numbers and
he'll see what he can do so that we can
both get a win. He makes something, he doesn't make
as much as he would have, but it all works
out and vice versa. I pay attention to the lumber
market Tim's. Tim's committed some prices to me. I know
(25:58):
lumbers down and I could ask for lower prices, but
I don't. Wow. So so treating those people with the
respect they deserve for what they do and what they
bring the table is a big part of our success.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
That's great, and that really explains a true partnership instead
of just randomly throwing the word out there. That's a
great example. Great thanks for explaining that. So as far
as Chris, outside of lumber, sure, what what is What
(26:34):
are some of your hobbies that you do outside of construction?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Oh man, this is good question, and this is I'm
sort of beholden to my own my own work, after
after the after we get done recording here. Today I'm
driving up to northern Wisconsin to do more carpentry work
on the cabin I've been building myself. Oh nice, for
(27:00):
the last two and a half years. So, so my
hobby is carpentry. The other the other part, that's a
big part of who I am. My wife. My wife
is a Finnish citizen and moved to America eight years ago.
We've got a six year old daughter, and so in
(27:21):
the background, Helsinki it's the main church, and so we
get over to Finland a couple of times a year.
So Finnish culture is a big part of our family
speak Finnish to our.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Daughter at home and oh cool.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's that's a little bit of
my personal side.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
So then do you bring her to the lumberyard.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
She she likes she likes climbing up on the bunks
and I'm yeah, building stacking blocks and she loves it.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, that's that's you have a better setup than legos.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I've got a thirteen year old on who wants to
do a haunted house this October, and so he comes
and takes all of our old scrap wood. He's been
building things for his haunted house.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That is really cool. How fun that'll be exciting. That
is awesome. So jumping back, I mean you are carpentry,
you are a lumber you are you are the woodsmand
so going back to business, I would love to understand
do you use any type of technology that to help
(28:32):
business be more efficient today?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah? The biggest The biggest thing we're doing is because
we're a panel market, and that means we we we
build with pre constructed walls, analyzed walls. All of our
buildings are designed ahead of time on in software where
(28:55):
we're working out all the bugs. We're figuring out the
different wall eytes, making sure everything is exactly in the
right place. We've got a project right now where there's
an embedded threaded rod, So it's threaded rod that is
welded to pre cast plank, and then there is four
inches of concrete poured around that threaded rod. And this
(29:19):
is all before any of our walls come out, and
it needs to be within three sixteenths of an inch
the right spot. When our walls come out. On a
seventy five thousand square foot footprint, there's two hundred instances
where I have to put these in. So we're designing
(29:39):
this threaded rod into our building, and then we're using
a total station and we're marking out the exact spot
where all this thread rod needs to get placed so
that it lines up with our whole down anchors. Being
able to do all that ahead of time, whereas twenty
years ago it was me standing at a sawhorse with
(30:01):
a two hundred page print referencing six different pages. It's
a world different, right, and being able to do that
and embrace all of that sets us apart from the
guys who are unwilling to look into new technology understand
new technology. Those guys are getting left behind. And the
(30:24):
guys like me and there are other guys like me
in Wisconsin who sort of lean into new opportunities are
the ones who are getting ahead and setting ourselves apart.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, So, if anybody needs a framing contractor like yourself,
where do they find you?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Sure, I'm very active on LinkedIn. You just go on
LinkedIn and search my name. I try to post sort
of amount of posts sort of coincide with how busy
we are. So my website is DC Materials LC dot com.
You can find my phone number and email address there.
(31:06):
Feel free to check out the website and feel free
to email and reach out. It's every couple of weeks
I'm on the phone with a new framer from a
different part of the country. I travel all over the
country sort of learning and understanding the different ways people build.
(31:27):
If you have a need, it's likely that I have
a resource to somebody that I can connect you with
to help you do what you're doing better.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
That's a great offer. And are you nationwide global? Statewide?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
We're Wisconsin for now. There's a few nationwide framing contractors
and that's you know, that's an idea that sort of
floats around. It's not something I've embraced. We we do
what we say we're going to do right, and I'm
going to grow as long as I can continue to
do what I say I'm going to do. And that's
(32:03):
really the boundary for us. So if we have the
resources to perform in another market or a couple hours
further away from where we normally would work, we do it.
If we don't have those resources, we don't do it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That's smart.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Last question before we wrap up, do you have any
advice for new construction owners that you'd like to share
with our listeners?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Learn? Learn it? He goes back. I saidered earlier. Learn accounting.
Find find software that helps fill in the gaps for
the things that you're not good at. Learn it, watch
YouTube videos, talk to the people who are selling it
(32:52):
to you. Rely on them for you to learn it.
It's a huge differentiator. Most most construction company owners don't
fail because their workmanship sucks. They fail because they don't
understand cash flow, you know, they don't understand accounting, they
don't understand all that office stuff, and they get a
(33:14):
tax bill two years in that they can't afford, and
they go back to work. For someone else. So getting
ahead of that and getting on top of it is important.
And I was very prideful as a carpenter and a
guy who swung a hammer, wore tool belt for ten
hours a day that I wasn't some office guy. And
(33:34):
embracing sort of a little bit of that office guy
self image has helped push me ahead.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I believe it. The bank account probably says it all.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It goes. It's up and down.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
So well, Chris, thank you so much for being a
guest on the show. Please everyone like, subscribe, comment, and
share the Builder Up Show with anyone in the construction industry.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
We will see you next time.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
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