March 7, 2025 • 28 mins
In this She Builds Nation Special episode, we talk to Andrea Janssen, a certified executive coach, founder and CEO of Ambition Theory, and host of the "Ambition Theory Women in Construction" podcast. Andrea shares her journey from career coach to construction industry leadership expert, despite having no prior construction background. She discusses the critical distinction between mentorship and sponsorship, common obstacles women face in male-dominated sectors, and the importance of transformational leadership in today's construction industry. Andrea's unique perspective as someone who learned construction through helping women advance into leadership positions allows her to coach differently, focusing on transformational approaches that yield exponential rather than incremental growth.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, i'mlu Perez, your host of The Builder Upper Show,
a podcast where we talk about everything in construction and trades.
We have a special co host today, Jennifer Hires, who
will be interviewing Women in Construction for Women in Construction Week.
Hey Jen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi, lud, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Who is your special guest today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
All right?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Today, I am thrilled to welcome Andrea Jansen to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A little bit of background.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Andre is a certified executive coach, the founder and CEO
of Ambition Theory, and the host of the Ambition Theory
Women in Construction podcast. She's passionate advocate of leadership development,
diversity and inclusion, particularly in our male dominated industries like construction,
(00:56):
and through Andrea's work, she has helped companies ship for
mentorship to sponsorship, empowering women to step into leadership roles
and drive meaningful change. She has worked with global organizations
to create cultures where women can thrive, and her insights
have been featured on numerous platforms, and today we're going
(01:17):
to dive into her journey, the impact of sponsorship and
how we can create workplaces that really truly support women's Advancement.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Andrew, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer, I'm excited
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Awesome. Well, we are doing this.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
We're actually recording it before next week's Women in Construction
where we're going to celebrate women in Construction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So really happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I do have some questions lined up, so let's
just go ahead and dive right into it. So first
we're going to start with, you know, founding Ambition Theory.
What inspired you to establish Ambition Theory and how it's
mission evolved since its inception.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Oh, that is such a great question and it has
been a ride. So I got into coaching really, I
started as a career coach. I did not work in
construction before I started Ambition Theory. And it's because you know,
at the time, those types of careers were not really
promoted to me. I didn't really have any exposure to it.
I kind of found the and I kind of say,
(02:24):
like the industry shows me, I didn't choose it. I
started out as a career coach and then I kind
of thought, you know, I had a marketing background. I
didn't have any recruitment hr any type of background like that,
and I thought, you know, I should get some kind
of like certification. So I discovered coaching that way. So
I went to executive coaching school with the goal of
(02:44):
just being a better career coach, and through that I
really learned that coaching is so much more than getting
someone a job, prepping them for an interview that's very transactional.
I realized it's so much bigger. There's so much leadership
development that coaching can really help people with. But there's
so many cultural things that coaching can do inside companies
to really open them up to exponential growth and opportunity.
(03:08):
So I discovered coaching and I'm like, I'm going to
start this company, and I decided to focus on women.
And the first thing that I created was a workshop
called Reignite Your Ambition. And I was still running the
business just under my name, like it was Andrea Jansen Coaching,
and I, you know, you're an I was a entrepreneur
and literally just hustling trying to get it off the ground.
(03:31):
And you know, this Reignite Your Ambition workshop was getting
some traction in technical industries, so I had lots of
engineers and it was really resonating with people with technical backgrounds.
And how I got into construction was my husband works
in construction. He works at a big general contractor. And
this was around twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. His company was
(03:53):
sending women to the groundbreaking Women in Construction conference, so
it's put on by Engineering News Record every year, and
he said it to me, saying like, look, how amazing
my company is. Look what they're doing to support our
women employees. And I was like, well that's cool. Let
me what's this conference? Who are the speakers, what are
they learning about? What are the topics? And on the
(04:14):
website schedule there was a TBD in one of the
time slots, and so you know, I'm that entrepreneur. I'm
trying to get my business off the ground. I called
the conference and asked if they needed a leadership speaker
and they said yes. And at the time I didn't
know anything about construction. I actually didn't even really know
about being a speaker, but I figured it out. I
(04:35):
went there. I wasn't paid, I had to pay for
myself to get there, and the talk, the workshop went
so well. I was in this tiny little breakout room
and literally even before it started, like there was people
on the floor. The organizers were putting chairs in the hallway,
and I'm like, I think I'm onto something here. Yes,
And I had gotten some construction clients from that speaking engagement,
(04:59):
and but was still pursuing all industries, working with people
from healthcare, finance, like you name it, just trying to
get things going. And then there was a moment where
I took a small business marketing course and they're really
talking about nicheing and focusing on a certain type of customer,
and they had to do this exercise where we had to,
you know, write down all the types of customers we
(05:20):
have and score them. And it turned out that construction
was about sixty percent of our clientele, and the teacher
challenged us to just focus on that customer segment for
ninety days and see what happens. And so that's how
we decided to really focus on advancing women in construction
(05:40):
and really changed the name to Ambition Theory because I
wanted to build something bigger than myself. So that's kind
of how it started. And since then, since really becoming
that expert in construction, we've been able to build up
like a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of expertise lots
of partnership to really help us make things happen kind
(06:03):
of faster than if you're just kind of figuring out
for the first time.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Every time that journey and especially how you said, you
know you construction found you.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
That's an incredible journey. And let's transition because this is.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I find my next question very interesting mentorship to sponsorships.
And I say this because I've had two other guests
on the show. I had Stephanie Couch and I had
Demi night Clark, and both of them common theme sponsorship.
So let's dive into that. Right, You've discussed the limitations
(06:41):
of mentorship for women's career advancement and really advocate for
sponsorship instead, So could you just elaborate on the distinction
and its significance.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
So I love that your other guests are talking about
this because even two years ago, most people were saying
get a mentor get a mentor get a mentor like
that was still the language the advice that people were given.
So my heart is exploding right now that people are
already talking people are talking about this. So just quick
(07:12):
in a nutshell, mentorship is advice in preparation, So you
are you know you're motivated, you want to get to
the next level. You find the mentor, so that's someone
more experienced than you, either in your company or in
the industry, that works at another company, and you ask
them for advice and they'll tell you their story, maybe
suggest a book, tell you how they got there, and
(07:33):
you're pumped, you're excited. You're like, I'm ready to go.
And then you get back to wherever you work, your
job site, your office, your car, wherever you work, and
you're like, I read the book, I went to the conference,
I'm inspired by your story. I want to follow your path,
But how what do I do next? Because really, as
the mentee, you have to find the opportunity on your
(07:56):
own to implement that advice. So that's mentorship. But what's
really interesting is that mentorship shows up differently for men
and women. So for men, how it shows up. It's like,
you go to that mentor, you're like, I want to
get to my next level? What do I do? And
they're like, actually, I have golf with the vice president
of our company next week. Come along with me. And
(08:19):
then you get to meet that vice president. You're understanding
their goals, the strategic direction of the company. You're building trust,
You're building that relationship, and that vice president is like, wow,
you got potential. Here we go, come along with me.
You know, I'm pitching a new client next week, and
you know what, we got ten slides that I'm presenting.
But you can take three of them and don't worry
(08:42):
if we know you're new, so you know, if you
don't know, you get stuck. Whatever I can step in
to ensure that this is successful.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Is so true.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Yeah, who is going to advance to a leadership role faster?
Is it the woman who's preparing and trying to wait
for the opportunity or figure out this opportunity on her
own or this man that is like given the opportunity
and gets to rise to the challenge and learn as
they go with this safety net of their this is
a sponsor there with them. And I will note so
(09:15):
this is research base. This is not my opinion. We
have done research with the National Center for Construction Education
and research that validates this is happening in construction. But
other researchers have studied this in other industries. So this
is just how how organizations work and how people rise
to leadership. But what's really fascinating is nobody does it
(09:37):
on purpose. No one says, like, I got two people
on my day, ones a man, one's a woman. I
Am going to consciously treat them differently. People don't even
realize they're doing this. And the really kind of the
kicker in all of this is that it's actually out
of really good intentions. So for women, it's this idea,
I want her to be successful. I want her to
(09:59):
be ready. I don't want her to fail. I want
her to knock it out of the park whenever that
opportunity comes. And unfortunately, what happens that holds women back
from stretching themselves from getting that opportunity, getting that exposure,
actually being able to show like I have done this
(10:21):
versus like I've prepared for this. And that's really what
we look what companies look for in advancement. So shifting
from mentorship to sponsorship is kind of the biggest thing
that people can do, and that really leads to the
biggest results.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Once you put it into words of you know what
research has said about the mentorship the men versus the women.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, it definitely can resonate with us.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And what's really interesting is that like, we don't use
the word sponsorship. It's not an everyday word that that
is in our vocabulary, and we just call the whole
thing mentorship. And so when we have these mentorship programs,
people still think like that's actually the answer to advancing women,
but unfortunately it's actually not, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
And that is a common obstacle of the comparison that
you gave, you know, men versus women. So, you know,
let's talk about other challenges, right, So what are other
common obstacles that women face in these sectors like construction,
and how can organizations really address these challenges to foster
you know, just being inclusive.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, So the first one is really the leadership model
that we teach at Ambition Theory. It's we didn't invent
it people. Other researchers have studied this for many, many years.
It's the transactional versus transformational approach. And we look at
it like a spectrum. So transactional is that traditional model
where like I'm the leader, I set the vision for
the team or the company, and I delegate to the
(12:01):
people that report to me of what to do to
achieve that vision. When things are going well, I praise
them when things are not going well, I give them
that critical feedback. So that's the transactional model. That typical
like top down leadership model. On the other side is
the transformational model. So transformational leadership is about I'm the leader.
I set the vision for the team, but instead of
(12:23):
telling the team what to do, it's more about inviting
them into to contribute. It's helping them see the bigger picture,
helping them recognize what their strengths are and aligning those
strengths with the tasks that need to be done. So
it's more collaborative and it's more about inspiring people so
they want to contribute. They want to rise to the
challenge versus being told you have to do this task
(12:48):
and what's really interesting and I want to be really clear,
one is not better than the other. And in construction,
actually you really need both. So construction is a project
based industry, right like you have deadlines, you finish a project,
then you move to the next project. And those transactional
skills you know, timelines, budget, you know, getting all the
(13:09):
companies to do their part. Leaning into that transactional side
of the spectrum very very important. But if you think
about again, construction is a project based industry. Where's the
next project coming from? And if you think about how
leveraging transactional skills to get the next project? It's all
about price really, and that's really hard right when you're
(13:32):
just competing on price. But if you think about if
you took a transformational approach, it's more relational. It's about
understanding what are the goals of the other companies I'm
working with, What other projects did they have in their pipeline?
How can I show up and get curious and actually
help them get the next project? And then you build
longer term relationships. There's value created, there are synergies, there's
(13:55):
all those wonderful things that a lot of times you
become the preferred partner and then you're not actually competing
on price. You're actually bringing so much more to the table,
and then price is not as relevant so you can
actually secure more work. It's a lot less stressful to
know that you have these long term partnerships, these long
term relationships that you can use can kind of like
(14:19):
work together to get that work, versus that kind of
like everyday transactional approach where you're just like price price price,
like where's the next job coming. It gets you off
that camster wheel and really creates more value. And what's
really cool is research has shown this our research and
research in other industries, that women are naturally more transformational,
(14:42):
men are naturally more transactional. But where the barrier comes
is that because there's more men than women in construction
and in especially in leadership roles, the behaviors that are
rewarded are transactional. So the boxes that you check like
who gets promoe, Oh, they can manage a budget, they
can get the project done on time, they can give feedback,
(15:05):
and even the leadership training. If you look at leadership
training targeting the construction industry, it's like supervisor training. It's
like all of these transactional leadership skills. But the thing
is there's not usually a box on the performance management system.
Collaboration inspires others, builds, partnerships, and there isn't leadership training
(15:31):
that I've seen other than ours, that really teaches people
how do I use these transformational skills in this transactional
environment to really benefit the project, benefit the company, benefit
the industry. So that is not happening right now, and
that's another really big barrier that women face is that
they bring all these amazing skills to the table, but
(15:53):
they don't have a role model to show them how
to use it. So we did some research and seventy
six percent of women and construction said they've never had
a woman manager. So most people have never seen a
real life women leading in their companies. So if you
don't know what that looks like and what happens women are,
you know, put in the transactional Leadership training program. Their
(16:17):
managers are all transactional. The boxes they're expected to be
evaluated on are all transactional. So they actually have these
skills inside of them that they don't use. And I
think that's the missed opportunity.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And like you said, once not better than the other whatsoever,
but you need both. And with not having as many
women in the construction industry, that's where you don't really
see it. Let's just talk about the construction industry in general.
Do you see a shift going on? What do you
see for the future of construction?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So I think there's that we're at a really really
interesting time because the construction industry is facing a lot
of challenges. So there's we always talk about everyone's talking
about the labor shortage, retention issues, mental health challenges, and
complexity of projects. So the projects are getting more complex.
There's more innovation in the built environment that's happening, and
(17:14):
I think there's this critical point where kind of the
old you know what got you here won't get you there. Right,
there's a.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Lot of pain.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Construction companies are feeling a lot of pain, and a
lot of times you don't people don't take action or
organizations don't take action unless they're in pain. Right, It's
this idea we've done it this way for so long
and it's actually worked really well. But there's all these
new challenges where I think this is an amazing opportunity
to look at transformational leadership as the path forward, because
(17:45):
transformational leaders really inspire innovation. They inspire people to rise
to the challenge and want to give more. Especially when
we're facing a labor shortage, you actually need to get
more out of your people. And I think there's this
really cool opportunity and where the transactional approach to getting
more out of your people is mandatory over time. You
(18:07):
need to get this done harder, harder, harder, work harder,
whereas a transformational approach is really inviting people in to
see that bigger picture so that they want to finish
their part in the project. And so those tiny little
tweaks is real, Like it sounds simple, but it can
lead to exponential results, so kind of like improvement, Like
(18:30):
they're kind of going along the transactional way. It's like, well,
we're gonna I'm gonna remind you more that I get
like like I'm going to give you, tell you more
more over time more this work harder, work faster, and
that that can get you incremental results. But if it's
like you know, here's the big picture, here's the challenge,
(18:52):
like as a team, how are we going to solve
this and inviting everybody in to be a part of it.
That where you get like thirty forty fifty percent more productivity,
but the transactional coortrual you get like two three percent
higher productivity. So I really think in the future there's
this opportunity for companies that really want to take at
(19:14):
advantage of the people that they have to lean into
those transformational leadership skills. And the easiest way to do
that is obviously, like we would love to teach these
skills to everybody that would be amazing. Men love transformational
leadership too, especially young ones. Actually, what's really interesting and
what research says is that gen z does not respond
(19:38):
very well to transactional leadership, and so really they want
to have a sense of purpose, they want to feel
like they belong, they want to feel like they're contributing
to something. They want to know why they're showing up
every day, and so treating those younger people and leading
them in a transactional way doesn't actually work. So this
(19:59):
kind of the easiest path is there are women already
in this industry. Recognize what you have. I love that, like,
recognize what they have, because what will happen is the
site will be better, the team will be more innovative,
people on the team will feel more supported, and more
people are going to want to work there, and they're
(20:20):
going to learn those skills, they're going to contribute more,
and it's just the snowball just keeps going. But the
easiest way is literally, you already have these women in
your companies, leverage the skills that they have, show them
that you value the skills that they have, you like,
recognize it, and if you do that, really incredible things
(20:41):
can happen.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And I love you know, have people where they want
to be part of the solution. Everybody comes together to
be part of the solution. Absolutely, Andrew. Let's talk about
your personal journey right as a leadership coach podcast host yourself.
How have your personal experiences shaped your approach to coaching
(21:05):
advocacy for women in construction.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Okay, that is a really interesting question because I have
a very unique journey. Like there's other you know, women
in construction leadership coaches, there's other construction leadership experts, and
none of them have the same background as me, and
a lot of them have really similar backgrounds. So typically
when people kind of work in the leadership in construction,
(21:30):
there's a couple pasts. Some start from an HR perspective
and then they get into this work. Some are leaders themselves.
They had a really successful career and they want to
give back. But my journey is completely different because I
learned construction through getting women promoted into leadership. That is
how I know the industry. I do not know how
(21:52):
to build a project, like yeah, I don't do not
ask me any technical skills, and what I think that's
allowed me to do. I actually think I'm a much
better coach because the only thing I can do is
hold my account clients accountable in a transformational way, because
in coaching it's a bit different than a lot of
(22:15):
people think coaching is like telling people what to do right,
but really, like if you want transformational coaching, it's about
actually asking people the questions nobody else is going to
ask them, and actually recognizing that they are the expert.
They actually know more about their job, They know more
about what their next move is than you do as
(22:36):
their leadership coach. And so because I actually cannot tell
them the tactical move because I've never been there, I've
never I've never done that. The only thing I know
is from coaching thousands of people through this, I do
have some insight of like what obstacles are going to
show up, how can you prepare yourself? What opportunity these
(23:00):
are out there? But I can never go into that,
you know, teller mode like transactional mode. It's only transformational.
And what's really cool about that is that people get
exponentially amazing opportunities when we work with us, and we've
really built like a system around that. So it's really
(23:22):
ambition theories, not me anymore. It started out really as me,
but it really become a brand, a methodology, a vision
for the future of how leadership can look like in construction.
So that's kind of my journey. I think in the beginning,
I did get some backlash from people. People would say, like,
(23:42):
who does she think she is? All the other construction
leadership experts are usually it was like a man retired
executive downloading all his wisdom and advice to the next generation.
And it's really that idea, that's the transactional approach, right,
which can lead to incremental growth, right, you could get
three four, five percent better. But my perspective is completely different.
(24:05):
It's like, you know, we need to do some like
we need to figure this out, and like the coaching
that I can offer was very, very different than what
kind of others in the industry could offer.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Absolutely, And you know we started this podcast this episode,
you know, talking about that ambition theory, so you know,
let's go full circle and then like let's close it
out and say, well, your future vision, right, what are
your aspirations for ambition theory And like, let's say the
next five years, how do you envision its role in
(24:41):
transforming a workplace culture?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
So that is a great question, and it's really interesting.
What's kind of I'll just give you some backshort of
like what's happening with our client base right now is
so we really positioned ourselves as experts in advancing women
in construction. So so we know like all types of construction.
We've worked with people like that, we've worked with companies
and we know what it takes. But what's really interesting,
(25:08):
so we had in our last we have a partnership
with the National Association of Women in Construction and we
run their Leadership Academy with them, and we had a graduate.
Really we have like a leadership model. It's like above
the line thinking, below the line thinking. So above the
line you're curious, you're asking questions, you're seeking solutions. Below
the line is you're blaming, you're waiting for others, you're
(25:30):
not taking action. And she had a print out of it.
She took our course. It's a tool we use like
every week in our course. And she had a print
out of it on her desk at her in her
job site trailer. And the CEO was visiting projects. She
was visiting that site and she saw the picture and
she's like, what is that that's really interesting in this
(25:51):
idea of this growth mind. It's really helping people stay
in that curiosity, stay asking questions, stay not blaming others,
really moving forward and innovating. She really liked the image,
so she asked her about it and it started this
conversation about what she learned in her course, and the
CEO said, that is incredible. I want everybody in the
(26:11):
company to learn those skills. So really, the bigger vision
for ambition theory is, yes, we know exactly how to
help women leverage their transformational leadership skills, articulate the value
of that to their companies so that their impact can
be bigger. They can make their company more money, they
can build better relationships with their with the other companies
(26:34):
that they work with. But the bigger vision is really,
how do we teach everybody these skills because the opportunity
is there. The industry is at this pivotal moment where
the way of doing things is not working anymore. So
that's kind of the bigger vision for ambition theory.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Can people find you, Andrea, how can they find more
about ambition theory.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
So they can go to our website? So it's Ambition
Theory or they can listen to our podcast, so it's
an ambition theory Women in Construction podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's great. Hopefully everybody's writing that down.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Andrew, I can't thank you enough for being a guest
on our show and then also just being able to
connect the dots with other guests that we've had, and
you know what, they have encouraged women and just others
in the industry to do. So listeners, we are going
to drop a survey in the chats. You can go
(27:31):
ahead and fill out that survey for us. And once again, Andrew,
I just want to thank you so much for being
a guest and we look forward to having this live
during the Women in Construction Week, which is the first
week of March.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Awesome, thank you so much for having me. This is
a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
Hey everyone, i'mlu Perez, your host of The Builder Upper Show,
a podcast where we talk about everything in construction and trades.
We have a special co host today, Jennifer Hires, who
will be interviewing Women in Construction for Women in Construction Week.
Hey Jen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi, lud, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Who is your special guest today?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
All right?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Today, I am thrilled to welcome Andrea Jansen to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
A little bit of background.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Andre is a certified executive coach, the founder and CEO
of Ambition Theory, and the host of the Ambition Theory
Women in Construction podcast. She's passionate advocate of leadership development,
diversity and inclusion, particularly in our male dominated industries like construction,
(00:56):
and through Andrea's work, she has helped companies ship for
mentorship to sponsorship, empowering women to step into leadership roles
and drive meaningful change. She has worked with global organizations
to create cultures where women can thrive, and her insights
have been featured on numerous platforms, and today we're going
(01:17):
to dive into her journey, the impact of sponsorship and
how we can create workplaces that really truly support women's Advancement.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Andrew, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer, I'm excited
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Awesome. Well, we are doing this.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
We're actually recording it before next week's Women in Construction
where we're going to celebrate women in Construction.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So really happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
And I do have some questions lined up, so let's
just go ahead and dive right into it. So first
we're going to start with, you know, founding Ambition Theory.
What inspired you to establish Ambition Theory and how it's
mission evolved since its inception.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Oh, that is such a great question and it has
been a ride. So I got into coaching really, I
started as a career coach. I did not work in
construction before I started Ambition Theory. And it's because you know,
at the time, those types of careers were not really
promoted to me. I didn't really have any exposure to it.
I kind of found the and I kind of say,
(02:24):
like the industry shows me, I didn't choose it. I
started out as a career coach and then I kind
of thought, you know, I had a marketing background. I
didn't have any recruitment hr any type of background like that,
and I thought, you know, I should get some kind
of like certification. So I discovered coaching that way. So
I went to executive coaching school with the goal of
(02:44):
just being a better career coach, and through that I
really learned that coaching is so much more than getting
someone a job, prepping them for an interview that's very transactional.
I realized it's so much bigger. There's so much leadership
development that coaching can really help people with. But there's
so many cultural things that coaching can do inside companies
to really open them up to exponential growth and opportunity.
(03:08):
So I discovered coaching and I'm like, I'm going to
start this company, and I decided to focus on women.
And the first thing that I created was a workshop
called Reignite Your Ambition. And I was still running the
business just under my name, like it was Andrea Jansen Coaching,
and I, you know, you're an I was a entrepreneur
and literally just hustling trying to get it off the ground.
(03:31):
And you know, this Reignite Your Ambition workshop was getting
some traction in technical industries, so I had lots of
engineers and it was really resonating with people with technical backgrounds.
And how I got into construction was my husband works
in construction. He works at a big general contractor. And
this was around twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. His company was
(03:53):
sending women to the groundbreaking Women in Construction conference, so
it's put on by Engineering News Record every year, and
he said it to me, saying like, look, how amazing
my company is. Look what they're doing to support our
women employees. And I was like, well that's cool. Let
me what's this conference? Who are the speakers, what are
they learning about? What are the topics? And on the
(04:14):
website schedule there was a TBD in one of the
time slots, and so you know, I'm that entrepreneur. I'm
trying to get my business off the ground. I called
the conference and asked if they needed a leadership speaker
and they said yes. And at the time I didn't
know anything about construction. I actually didn't even really know
about being a speaker, but I figured it out. I
(04:35):
went there. I wasn't paid, I had to pay for
myself to get there, and the talk, the workshop went
so well. I was in this tiny little breakout room
and literally even before it started, like there was people
on the floor. The organizers were putting chairs in the hallway,
and I'm like, I think I'm onto something here. Yes,
And I had gotten some construction clients from that speaking engagement,
(04:59):
and but was still pursuing all industries, working with people
from healthcare, finance, like you name it, just trying to
get things going. And then there was a moment where
I took a small business marketing course and they're really
talking about nicheing and focusing on a certain type of customer,
and they had to do this exercise where we had to,
you know, write down all the types of customers we
(05:20):
have and score them. And it turned out that construction
was about sixty percent of our clientele, and the teacher
challenged us to just focus on that customer segment for
ninety days and see what happens. And so that's how
we decided to really focus on advancing women in construction
(05:40):
and really changed the name to Ambition Theory because I
wanted to build something bigger than myself. So that's kind
of how it started. And since then, since really becoming
that expert in construction, we've been able to build up
like a wealth of knowledge, a wealth of expertise lots
of partnership to really help us make things happen kind
(06:03):
of faster than if you're just kind of figuring out
for the first time.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Every time that journey and especially how you said, you
know you construction found you.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
That's an incredible journey. And let's transition because this is.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I find my next question very interesting mentorship to sponsorships.
And I say this because I've had two other guests
on the show. I had Stephanie Couch and I had
Demi night Clark, and both of them common theme sponsorship.
So let's dive into that. Right, You've discussed the limitations
(06:41):
of mentorship for women's career advancement and really advocate for
sponsorship instead, So could you just elaborate on the distinction
and its significance.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
So I love that your other guests are talking about
this because even two years ago, most people were saying
get a mentor get a mentor get a mentor like
that was still the language the advice that people were given.
So my heart is exploding right now that people are
already talking people are talking about this. So just quick
(07:12):
in a nutshell, mentorship is advice in preparation, So you
are you know you're motivated, you want to get to
the next level. You find the mentor, so that's someone
more experienced than you, either in your company or in
the industry, that works at another company, and you ask
them for advice and they'll tell you their story, maybe
suggest a book, tell you how they got there, and
(07:33):
you're pumped, you're excited. You're like, I'm ready to go.
And then you get back to wherever you work, your
job site, your office, your car, wherever you work, and
you're like, I read the book, I went to the conference,
I'm inspired by your story. I want to follow your path,
But how what do I do next? Because really, as
the mentee, you have to find the opportunity on your
(07:56):
own to implement that advice. So that's mentorship. But what's
really interesting is that mentorship shows up differently for men
and women. So for men, how it shows up. It's like,
you go to that mentor, you're like, I want to
get to my next level? What do I do? And
they're like, actually, I have golf with the vice president
of our company next week. Come along with me. And
(08:19):
then you get to meet that vice president. You're understanding
their goals, the strategic direction of the company. You're building trust,
You're building that relationship, and that vice president is like, wow,
you got potential. Here we go, come along with me.
You know, I'm pitching a new client next week, and
you know what, we got ten slides that I'm presenting.
But you can take three of them and don't worry
(08:42):
if we know you're new, so you know, if you
don't know, you get stuck. Whatever I can step in
to ensure that this is successful.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Is so true.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Yeah, who is going to advance to a leadership role faster?
Is it the woman who's preparing and trying to wait
for the opportunity or figure out this opportunity on her
own or this man that is like given the opportunity
and gets to rise to the challenge and learn as
they go with this safety net of their this is
a sponsor there with them. And I will note so
(09:15):
this is research base. This is not my opinion. We
have done research with the National Center for Construction Education
and research that validates this is happening in construction. But
other researchers have studied this in other industries. So this
is just how how organizations work and how people rise
to leadership. But what's really fascinating is nobody does it
(09:37):
on purpose. No one says, like, I got two people
on my day, ones a man, one's a woman. I
Am going to consciously treat them differently. People don't even
realize they're doing this. And the really kind of the
kicker in all of this is that it's actually out
of really good intentions. So for women, it's this idea,
I want her to be successful. I want her to
(09:59):
be ready. I don't want her to fail. I want
her to knock it out of the park whenever that
opportunity comes. And unfortunately, what happens that holds women back
from stretching themselves from getting that opportunity, getting that exposure,
actually being able to show like I have done this
(10:21):
versus like I've prepared for this. And that's really what
we look what companies look for in advancement. So shifting
from mentorship to sponsorship is kind of the biggest thing
that people can do, and that really leads to the
biggest results.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
That's incredible.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Once you put it into words of you know what
research has said about the mentorship the men versus the women.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, it definitely can resonate with us.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And what's really interesting is that like, we don't use
the word sponsorship. It's not an everyday word that that
is in our vocabulary, and we just call the whole
thing mentorship. And so when we have these mentorship programs,
people still think like that's actually the answer to advancing women,
but unfortunately it's actually not, Like.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, no, definitely not.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
And that is a common obstacle of the comparison that
you gave, you know, men versus women. So, you know,
let's talk about other challenges, right, So what are other
common obstacles that women face in these sectors like construction,
and how can organizations really address these challenges to foster
you know, just being inclusive.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, So the first one is really the leadership model
that we teach at Ambition Theory. It's we didn't invent
it people. Other researchers have studied this for many, many years.
It's the transactional versus transformational approach. And we look at
it like a spectrum. So transactional is that traditional model
where like I'm the leader, I set the vision for
the team or the company, and I delegate to the
(12:01):
people that report to me of what to do to
achieve that vision. When things are going well, I praise
them when things are not going well, I give them
that critical feedback. So that's the transactional model. That typical
like top down leadership model. On the other side is
the transformational model. So transformational leadership is about I'm the leader.
I set the vision for the team, but instead of
(12:23):
telling the team what to do, it's more about inviting
them into to contribute. It's helping them see the bigger picture,
helping them recognize what their strengths are and aligning those
strengths with the tasks that need to be done. So
it's more collaborative and it's more about inspiring people so
they want to contribute. They want to rise to the
challenge versus being told you have to do this task
(12:48):
and what's really interesting and I want to be really clear,
one is not better than the other. And in construction,
actually you really need both. So construction is a project
based industry, right like you have deadlines, you finish a project,
then you move to the next project. And those transactional
skills you know, timelines, budget, you know, getting all the
(13:09):
companies to do their part. Leaning into that transactional side
of the spectrum very very important. But if you think
about again, construction is a project based industry. Where's the
next project coming from? And if you think about how
leveraging transactional skills to get the next project? It's all
about price really, and that's really hard right when you're
(13:32):
just competing on price. But if you think about if
you took a transformational approach, it's more relational. It's about
understanding what are the goals of the other companies I'm
working with, What other projects did they have in their pipeline?
How can I show up and get curious and actually
help them get the next project? And then you build
longer term relationships. There's value created, there are synergies, there's
(13:55):
all those wonderful things that a lot of times you
become the preferred partner and then you're not actually competing
on price. You're actually bringing so much more to the table,
and then price is not as relevant so you can
actually secure more work. It's a lot less stressful to
know that you have these long term partnerships, these long
term relationships that you can use can kind of like
(14:19):
work together to get that work, versus that kind of
like everyday transactional approach where you're just like price price price,
like where's the next job coming. It gets you off
that camster wheel and really creates more value. And what's
really cool is research has shown this our research and
research in other industries, that women are naturally more transformational,
(14:42):
men are naturally more transactional. But where the barrier comes
is that because there's more men than women in construction
and in especially in leadership roles, the behaviors that are
rewarded are transactional. So the boxes that you check like
who gets promoe, Oh, they can manage a budget, they
can get the project done on time, they can give feedback,
(15:05):
and even the leadership training. If you look at leadership
training targeting the construction industry, it's like supervisor training. It's
like all of these transactional leadership skills. But the thing
is there's not usually a box on the performance management system.
Collaboration inspires others, builds, partnerships, and there isn't leadership training
(15:31):
that I've seen other than ours, that really teaches people
how do I use these transformational skills in this transactional
environment to really benefit the project, benefit the company, benefit
the industry. So that is not happening right now, and
that's another really big barrier that women face is that
they bring all these amazing skills to the table, but
(15:53):
they don't have a role model to show them how
to use it. So we did some research and seventy
six percent of women and construction said they've never had
a woman manager. So most people have never seen a
real life women leading in their companies. So if you
don't know what that looks like and what happens women are,
you know, put in the transactional Leadership training program. Their
(16:17):
managers are all transactional. The boxes they're expected to be
evaluated on are all transactional. So they actually have these
skills inside of them that they don't use. And I
think that's the missed opportunity.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And like you said, once not better than the other whatsoever,
but you need both. And with not having as many
women in the construction industry, that's where you don't really
see it. Let's just talk about the construction industry in general.
Do you see a shift going on? What do you
see for the future of construction?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
So I think there's that we're at a really really
interesting time because the construction industry is facing a lot
of challenges. So there's we always talk about everyone's talking
about the labor shortage, retention issues, mental health challenges, and
complexity of projects. So the projects are getting more complex.
There's more innovation in the built environment that's happening, and
(17:14):
I think there's this critical point where kind of the
old you know what got you here won't get you there. Right,
there's a.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Lot of pain.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Construction companies are feeling a lot of pain, and a
lot of times you don't people don't take action or
organizations don't take action unless they're in pain. Right, It's
this idea we've done it this way for so long
and it's actually worked really well. But there's all these
new challenges where I think this is an amazing opportunity
to look at transformational leadership as the path forward, because
(17:45):
transformational leaders really inspire innovation. They inspire people to rise
to the challenge and want to give more. Especially when
we're facing a labor shortage, you actually need to get
more out of your people. And I think there's this
really cool opportunity and where the transactional approach to getting
more out of your people is mandatory over time. You
(18:07):
need to get this done harder, harder, harder, work harder,
whereas a transformational approach is really inviting people in to
see that bigger picture so that they want to finish
their part in the project. And so those tiny little
tweaks is real, Like it sounds simple, but it can
lead to exponential results, so kind of like improvement, Like
(18:30):
they're kind of going along the transactional way. It's like, well,
we're gonna I'm gonna remind you more that I get
like like I'm going to give you, tell you more
more over time more this work harder, work faster, and
that that can get you incremental results. But if it's
like you know, here's the big picture, here's the challenge,
(18:52):
like as a team, how are we going to solve
this and inviting everybody in to be a part of it.
That where you get like thirty forty fifty percent more productivity,
but the transactional coortrual you get like two three percent
higher productivity. So I really think in the future there's
this opportunity for companies that really want to take at
(19:14):
advantage of the people that they have to lean into
those transformational leadership skills. And the easiest way to do
that is obviously, like we would love to teach these
skills to everybody that would be amazing. Men love transformational
leadership too, especially young ones. Actually, what's really interesting and
what research says is that gen z does not respond
(19:38):
very well to transactional leadership, and so really they want
to have a sense of purpose, they want to feel
like they belong, they want to feel like they're contributing
to something. They want to know why they're showing up
every day, and so treating those younger people and leading
them in a transactional way doesn't actually work. So this
(19:59):
kind of the easiest path is there are women already
in this industry. Recognize what you have. I love that, like,
recognize what they have, because what will happen is the
site will be better, the team will be more innovative,
people on the team will feel more supported, and more
people are going to want to work there, and they're
(20:20):
going to learn those skills, they're going to contribute more,
and it's just the snowball just keeps going. But the
easiest way is literally, you already have these women in
your companies, leverage the skills that they have, show them
that you value the skills that they have, you like,
recognize it, and if you do that, really incredible things
(20:41):
can happen.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
And I love you know, have people where they want
to be part of the solution. Everybody comes together to
be part of the solution. Absolutely, Andrew. Let's talk about
your personal journey right as a leadership coach podcast host yourself.
How have your personal experiences shaped your approach to coaching
(21:05):
advocacy for women in construction.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
Okay, that is a really interesting question because I have
a very unique journey. Like there's other you know, women
in construction leadership coaches, there's other construction leadership experts, and
none of them have the same background as me, and
a lot of them have really similar backgrounds. So typically
when people kind of work in the leadership in construction,
(21:30):
there's a couple pasts. Some start from an HR perspective
and then they get into this work. Some are leaders themselves.
They had a really successful career and they want to
give back. But my journey is completely different because I
learned construction through getting women promoted into leadership. That is
how I know the industry. I do not know how
(21:52):
to build a project, like yeah, I don't do not
ask me any technical skills, and what I think that's
allowed me to do. I actually think I'm a much
better coach because the only thing I can do is
hold my account clients accountable in a transformational way, because
in coaching it's a bit different than a lot of
(22:15):
people think coaching is like telling people what to do right,
but really, like if you want transformational coaching, it's about
actually asking people the questions nobody else is going to
ask them, and actually recognizing that they are the expert.
They actually know more about their job, They know more
about what their next move is than you do as
(22:36):
their leadership coach. And so because I actually cannot tell
them the tactical move because I've never been there, I've
never I've never done that. The only thing I know
is from coaching thousands of people through this, I do
have some insight of like what obstacles are going to
show up, how can you prepare yourself? What opportunity these
(23:00):
are out there? But I can never go into that,
you know, teller mode like transactional mode. It's only transformational.
And what's really cool about that is that people get
exponentially amazing opportunities when we work with us, and we've
really built like a system around that. So it's really
(23:22):
ambition theories, not me anymore. It started out really as me,
but it really become a brand, a methodology, a vision
for the future of how leadership can look like in construction.
So that's kind of my journey. I think in the beginning,
I did get some backlash from people. People would say, like,
(23:42):
who does she think she is? All the other construction
leadership experts are usually it was like a man retired
executive downloading all his wisdom and advice to the next generation.
And it's really that idea, that's the transactional approach, right,
which can lead to incremental growth, right, you could get
three four, five percent better. But my perspective is completely different.
(24:05):
It's like, you know, we need to do some like
we need to figure this out, and like the coaching
that I can offer was very, very different than what
kind of others in the industry could offer.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Absolutely, And you know we started this podcast this episode,
you know, talking about that ambition theory, so you know,
let's go full circle and then like let's close it
out and say, well, your future vision, right, what are
your aspirations for ambition theory And like, let's say the
next five years, how do you envision its role in
(24:41):
transforming a workplace culture?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
So that is a great question, and it's really interesting.
What's kind of I'll just give you some backshort of
like what's happening with our client base right now is
so we really positioned ourselves as experts in advancing women
in construction. So so we know like all types of construction.
We've worked with people like that, we've worked with companies
and we know what it takes. But what's really interesting,
(25:08):
so we had in our last we have a partnership
with the National Association of Women in Construction and we
run their Leadership Academy with them, and we had a graduate.
Really we have like a leadership model. It's like above
the line thinking, below the line thinking. So above the
line you're curious, you're asking questions, you're seeking solutions. Below
the line is you're blaming, you're waiting for others, you're
(25:30):
not taking action. And she had a print out of it.
She took our course. It's a tool we use like
every week in our course. And she had a print
out of it on her desk at her in her
job site trailer. And the CEO was visiting projects. She
was visiting that site and she saw the picture and
she's like, what is that that's really interesting in this
(25:51):
idea of this growth mind. It's really helping people stay
in that curiosity, stay asking questions, stay not blaming others,
really moving forward and innovating. She really liked the image,
so she asked her about it and it started this
conversation about what she learned in her course, and the
CEO said, that is incredible. I want everybody in the
(26:11):
company to learn those skills. So really, the bigger vision
for ambition theory is, yes, we know exactly how to
help women leverage their transformational leadership skills, articulate the value
of that to their companies so that their impact can
be bigger. They can make their company more money, they
can build better relationships with their with the other companies
(26:34):
that they work with. But the bigger vision is really,
how do we teach everybody these skills because the opportunity
is there. The industry is at this pivotal moment where
the way of doing things is not working anymore. So
that's kind of the bigger vision for ambition theory.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Can people find you, Andrea, how can they find more
about ambition theory.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
So they can go to our website? So it's Ambition
Theory or they can listen to our podcast, so it's
an ambition theory Women in Construction podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
That's great. Hopefully everybody's writing that down.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Andrew, I can't thank you enough for being a guest
on our show and then also just being able to
connect the dots with other guests that we've had, and
you know what, they have encouraged women and just others
in the industry to do. So listeners, we are going
to drop a survey in the chats. You can go
(27:31):
ahead and fill out that survey for us. And once again, Andrew,
I just want to thank you so much for being
a guest and we look forward to having this live
during the Women in Construction Week, which is the first
week of March.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Awesome, thank you so much for having me. This is
a great conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
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