May 6, 2025 • 25 mins
Jeff Makey, founder of cLearn Training, shares his journey from construction work to becoming a leader in training and consultation. In this conversation, Jeff dives deep into the workforce challenges facing the trades, the importance of emotional engagement and mutual growth in training, and practical strategies for attracting and retaining talent in a shrinking labor pool. He also discusses how cLearn’s programs go beyond standard operating procedures to build company culture and vision, and explores the evolving role of technology and AI in construction training. Whether you’re a contractor, project manager, or industry leader, you’ll gain actionable insights on workforce development, upskilling, and creating effective training that sticks.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, today, I am thrilled to welcome to the
Builder Upper Show, Jeff Makee. Jeff has found his calling
as an expert in training, design, and consultation within our
construction industry.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
He is the.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Founder of Steiler, which is a nationally recognized instructional design
company that creates innovative continuing education, employee training, and professional
certification programs. Jeff is also a licensed general contractor and
a licensed hbac EPA Universal Tech and has created award
(00:42):
winning CE courses, construction on boarding programs, and certifications recognized
by the USDA and National Park Service. So I'm excited
to dive right in with my super cool guests. Jeff,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey, thanks, Jennifer, go around and announce me when I
enter room places that was.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
That was awesome? Really the red carpet for you too,
that'd be great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So I want to hear more about your background and
your journey. Can you just share with us you know
what led to you? How did you get into the
construction industry and then ultimately starting sealer?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Wow, I mean I don't think we have time for
let me try to Cliff note that that's such a
long story. So immediately out of high school, I wasn't
ready for college or prepared for college. And I got
a job Framan Houses and started working in construction for
oh until I was about twenty three, and then I
was also involved in professional rescue services and that's where
(01:44):
I was introduced to teaching and instructing. And then I discovered, hey, man,
I would really I'm a really great trainer. That's my
calling R That's what I did. I was fortunate to
learn that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Very early on.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm great at creating the design structures, communicating with people.
I'm really good at getting that information across and getting
people to engage and pay attention to the content. So
you know, where do you find a program that does
that at a university? I was like, I want to
go to college. So I started looking around, mainly in
North Carolina schools, and I discovered that Western Carolina University
(02:19):
will allow you to create your own degree. There was
a process involved with that, you know, I had to
justify while it was needed. I combined four different colleges
within the university. I had to present that to all
of the deans at the university and then they accepted it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Actually created my own degree in creating professional training and
certification programs, and then through a series of lifelong events,
I found myself launching sea Learn five.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Six years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
This is our sixth year. So six years I launched
sea Learn. This is actually our second, my second instructional
design company, and.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, we really have a good time.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So it kind of merged to that background of construction,
which I've been in and out of my entire life.
Like I said, I did spend a time as a
licensed general contractor, still have the licenses, and I was
just like, hey man, this is a great way to
merge both. And there's a real need within the construction
industry to bring better training and engagement to the community
(03:22):
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Absolutely, So let's talk more about workforce development and training
since that's like really your bread and butter. So what
do you find to be the biggest challenges construction company
space in training their workforce?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You know, that's again it's not such a simple answer,
but the truth is, for decades now, people in the
trades have been declining.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
There's no new workforce.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Working in construction got to be equated with a dirty job,
and sometimes it literally is. But it's not dirty work,
you know, like this is good employment. So the people
entering all of the trades has just been going down
and people are starting to age out. How do we
keep these employees and how do we attract new employees?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's all about engagement.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
We hear that word engagement all of the time, but
what does that actually mean?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What does engagement mean?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
You read the statistics and they say things like, hey,
lesson a third of employers engage with their employees. You know,
like I said, we're hearing that word all the time,
but what does it really mean. Well, engagement means emotional
buy in from my staff, emotional buying from my employees.
I want somebody to want to stay a little longer.
(04:34):
I want somebody to want to go the extra step. Right,
I'm hanging trim in the house. I've made a mistake,
you know. Do I leave and deal with it tomorrow? Well,
the homeowner may come and see that, and they don't
understand it was a mistake. So I want my staff
to stay there and fix it before they go home.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's five o'clock. Normally they start packing up.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I want them to say, man, I'm going to stay
here till five point thirty because I really care about Jeff,
I really care about Jeff's company, and I really care
about doing a good job for the company. So engagement
is that emotional buy in, Jennifer, That's really what we're
all about.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So give me some examples of that engagement, Like what
can a company do to engage.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
When when we talk about training, it's engagement is not
a one it's not a one step solution. And I'm
a firm believer with my company and also the clients
that we seek out that for my company to grow,
I need to see each individual person within my company
grow their career and their personal life. So if I
(05:37):
help them develop all of their skills, even though they
may leave me right even though they may leave me
one day because they've they've you know, grown so much
professionally and personally. If I help them grow, they are
going to help me grow.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That's the bottom line.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And let's say that I have the staff member that
I train up and I get them to become qualifier
and pass the test credentials. They may stay with me
two or three years longer than they would have because
they don't want to leave me shorthanded, and they're getting
something back out of employment besides just a paycheck. So
when we talk about engagement and training folks, that's really
what we mean want. I need to train them to
(06:18):
do their job with me to the best of their ability,
but I also want to promote their professional and personal
life because when we have.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That mutual growth, mutual gain is achieved. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Absolutely, And earlier you had mentioned that we have this
labor shortage going on in the construction industry. It's hard
to retain new folks are not wanting to join the industry.
So what advice would you give young professionals entering the
construction industry today?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
People want to work for a company that's growing.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
If we can demonstrate to the folks that we are
well organized and that we're growing and that we will
help them grow, that's going to be your biggest step
in getting the talent. Now, there's a broader community step
that we have to take to as a whole, which
we're already suffering from.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
We're looking at the statistics, you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Know, the average age according to the licensing board, the
North kind of licensing board for general contractors, the average
age for the qualifiers to people to pass the test
is fifty five or above. So we need to demonstrate
to folks that this isn't a dirty word.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Construction isn't a dirty ward. This is a viable.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Career that you can be very, very financially successful at
with flexibility and freedoms to move forward. And really the
sky is becoming the limit with our labor force. There's
really unlimited income potential now as you move up, whether
it's a licensed electrician, plumber, general contractor HVAC framer, Lord,
(07:52):
have mercy. We are so short on framers right now.
I was just talking to a construction company down the
road and they were saying, Jeff, we just can't find framer.
We can't find framers. There's nobody that knows how to
frame a roof. You know, it's hard work. I prefer
framing over any other aspect of construction. But those guys
are going to be millionaires.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You know, they're going.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
To be making at least six digits quite literally in
the next few years because the demand is going to
be there and the skill set isn't.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, absolutely, So what can you do? What can they do?
What can we do as a construction industry with like
innovations right So, it's not this dirty industry. What innovations
can we do in the construction industry in training and
education to help address this skilled labor shortage?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, that's that's right where we make our bread
and butter.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Obviously, Jennifer, I feel like I'm about to launch into
a sales pitch on this, which keep the sales pitch
out of it, right, But we're when we're first working
within the community, which we all should be in some way,
shape or form, whether it's the high schools, the colleges,
we should all be involved in some sort of workforce development,
educating folks, educating the young people coming up that the
(09:05):
trades are important. You can make six digits or even
more within the trades. So that's the first step. Collaboration
within the community. If you have an opportunity to collaborate
within your local community, encouraging people, introducing them that this
is good work, it can be fun work, and it
is very financially rewarding work. That's our first step. The
(09:27):
second step is within your own company. You need to
develop onboarding programs. They need to be consistent, so they
need to have structure to them. Every onboarding program you
have needs to be highly structured. The problem we're already
seeing even with National Builders. We're working with a client
right now, and they have a decent training program. They've
(09:50):
got an entire training department. Let me say that they've
got three full time members that don't do anything but
training within their organization.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That said, we started.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Meeting with them because the C suite folks, the higher
up folks, came and took some of our trainings and
they said, Jeff, there's a disconnect with our staff. We
don't understand why these people are not asking questions or
we put them through the training and then they're not
following the protocols.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
They're not following the SOPs. So we reached out to
these folks and.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
We discovered that they're using their SOPs as training documents.
I finally, I was sitting down talking with these folks
and I was like, you guys, what is an SOP?
And you know, the all three of these team members
looked at me and they were like, are you an idiot?
You don't know what an SOP is? And I said,
you guys, just tell me what an SOP is. And
of course standard operating procedure JAT said, is that a
(10:39):
training program. You're training off the SOP, and that's not
the same as training people to do the sop. Right,
Reading off an sop isn't training the sop. Some parts
people will listen to really well, other parts they're not
going to hear quite as well. So we design a
training program to emphasize the harder parts. So it's a
completely different structure of communicating the SOP. That's going to
(11:04):
be critically important because when people come join our team,
we need to show them that we have things together
and any individual, any team member within that company should
be portraying the same training in the same information. And
it all starts with that fundamental training program having the
consistency and detail so that everybody can learn the information
(11:26):
the same way and more importantly, everybody can communicate the
information the same way.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Absolutely, So let's talk then about that continuing education. Okay, So,
how can companies ensure continuous learning and upskilling for their
employees in the field.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So another really great question, Jennifer, and I'm going to
throw out a great example that's happening right nowa ZAA.
So in North Carolina, starting in January twenty twenty six,
we will enter in an all new energy efficient building code.
This is information building techniques and strategies that we've never
had to do before. We're not going to change it.
(12:10):
We're not going to delay it. It's already been delayed
by a year. This is coming. This is going to
be critically important, not just for the contractors to understand,
but my project managers, you know, all of my folks
on board need to understand what these changes are happening.
What's happening. And here's an example. Moving forward, we will
have to do a blower door test. We're gonna have
(12:32):
to seal the house up, pressurize the house, and make
sure that it's air tight.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We've never had to do that before. Some builders have
been doing.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It already, but they're very, very few. We have to
measure the air changes an hour, So that's going to
have to be measured to three air changes an hour
by a third party with the blower door test. If
it leaks more than three air changes an hour, you're
not going to get to your co You're not going
to pass the inspection.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You have to do that.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
So how many folks out there know what an air
change is an hour is? I don't just need to
know that as the manager, as the leader of the company,
my framers need to understand that that's what we're headed towards.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right yeh.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I need every step along the way to understand how
to seal up all of these air gaps, how to
make the house tighter, because I can't close any air
gaps after the drivewall goes up. I can't get to
those areas anymore. If it's leaking, it's leaking.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's done. I have to rip the drywall back off.
So every step along the way needs to understand what.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
This new building code is, how to measure it, and
what we need to do along the process. So continued
education is great for the owner's licenses in North Carolina
require the continued education, but we should be bringing this
type of training to everybody within our company because this
affects every step along the way.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And so with I mean it's a domino effect.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So with c learn, are they coming to you for
this training where you're saying, here's the new code, this
is what we're going to do in it, or you
actually going out to the companies and training. Let's say
like on site.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We do a combination of all of those things. Our
bread and butter is continuing education. These are the types
of classes we put together for our continued education. But
we also do consulting, so we go out and we
help folks design their onboarding programs.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like like I said, look at your SOPs.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Let us help you create a training program based on
your SOPs that also includes your company culture and your
company vision and your company mission.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Those things are.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Frequently left out, especially by the larger you know, training
are us type companies. So we we do the continued education,
we'll do the onboarding programs, but then we will also
create custom certification programs for you, such as teaching your
staff about the air changes an hour, So we cover
the gamut of all of those.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So let's talk more about this onboarding. I'm in tech
and you know one thing we do is is help
construction companies onboard their employees. So what stratag have proven
most effective which you say for onboarding new construction workers
you mentioned earlier consistency? What else is there out there
for them?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So that's a really good question. As I mentioned before,
culture and vision are really important. How often is there
a training program or a training consultant that moves in
that doesn't learn your company culture or your company and
we all talk about that, what is company culture, what
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
It's pretty much the personality that we want the company
to portray.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I mean, everybody has varying degrees of what culture is,
but ultimately it's the personality. So we need to incorporate
that into the training program. But when we're looking at
creating a training program, we'll go out and talk to folks,
talk to a clients, and we say, all right, what
are the things that people really get when you hire
a new.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Employee, what are the things they struggle with?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And then we'll examine that information and then we'll go
through and we'll design the training program that may touch
on the easy things once maybe twice, but then we'll
isolate the things that are harder for people to get
and we'll make sure that we format the training program
to talk about those two, three or even four times.
(16:14):
So that's one simple strategy and an example of that.
We just did an onboarding program for a local company
called simperfive, and with their training program, one of the
things they had difficulty with with their project managers was
learning their admin time and what to do during their
admin time. So each project manager has required a minimum
(16:34):
of two hours at the desk every week, and that
can be challenging for a project manager because you know,
those folks are always out there visiting the job sites,
checking the progression, making sure the lumber or packages were delivered.
So coming back and sitting in the office can be challenging.
Sitting the office is critically important. That's where they're managing
the schedule. That's where making phone calls three weeks out
(16:55):
to get folks to show up. That was the part
that his staff was really struggling with. So we took
all of that project management time, those two hour office time,
and we put that in its own section within the
onboarding program. So we talked about all of those duties. First,
most folks think about, hey, i'm going to do a
training program, I'm going to do it sequentially step one.
(17:16):
We're going to talk about step one first, we're going
to talk about step two.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Second.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
That's not necessarily the best way to do a training program.
We want to focus on the hardest things first. So
in this particular case, we did all of the things
that are going on in your admin time. We want
to talk about all of those things, all of those duties,
what are your task lists, what are your meeting agendas,
how are you doing your scheduling? And then we went
into the sequence. Hey, step one you do this. Hey,
(17:43):
remember we talked about the admin time. This is where
that plugs in. Step two, you do this. Hey, Remember
we talked about the admin time. This is where you
do that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So in that.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Particular case, we were able to target the hardest parts
for the employees to learn and talk about it a
minimum of two times, once as a hole to get
it in there, and then we talk about it in
sequence how it actually fits in to their day to
day life and their week to week progression through the projects.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Things that a training specialist can do that somebody and
we don't do anything but training. That's all we do,
and that's really where our talent comes in. Jennifer is saying, Okay,
let's get that through an interesting fact that most people
don't recognize. At any given time, one third of your
audience isn't listening to anything you say. Wow, right, and
(18:30):
I don't care if you paid money to go see
the comedian at the nightclub. At one third are you
paid you two hundred bucks. At one third of the time,
or at any given time, one third of the audience
isn't listening to that comedian they paid money to go see.
They're thinking about their kids, They're thinking about their work
the next day. They're thinking about what's for dinner, the
(18:52):
soccer game. I've got to take my childhood on Saturday.
They're thinking about the game coming up with their friends
and the camping trip. You know, So you're thinking about
we're all doing it right. We're all thinking about things
all of the time. So you can't be insulted or
upset when people.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Aren't listening to you.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
You have to come up with a different strategy to
get the information to them different ways at different timing
to make sure everybody gets that information.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And that's what makes you send an effective trainer is
you understand that there's different ways of communicating out the
same information.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Correct. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So let's talk about technology in the industry right doing onboarding?
How would you say companies can leverage like AI automation
just for onboarding? How can they do it for managing
(19:51):
their projects? Last night, I was just at a CFMA
event and Charlotte and the topic was AI very interesting?
So you want to kind of hear it from your perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
What are your.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Thoughts on AI automation.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, it's a really good question, and in fact, AI
is gonna take some people's jobs away. A really good
friend of mine, she's been friends with We've been great
friends since high school thirty forty years now. Gosh, I
guess I am that old. And she is a voiceover actress.
You've probably heard her hundreds of times, everything from the
American Airlines recorded voice to movie trailers to commercials. I
(20:30):
guarantee you've heard Wendy hundreds of times. I was just
hanging out talking to Wendy the other day, going, Wendy
is the AI voiceover stuff taking work away from you?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Says Jeff.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
I've already lost three contracts, so it's devastating.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
For her and that industry. So AI is real, it
is happening, and it is taking some people's jobs.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
On that note, it's making things more affordable for companies
like me. Right, I can't afford to hire Wendy, she's
just too expensive. She's that good, Right, But now I
can afford to have those voiceovers because AI can do
it as good a job as she can at a
fraction of the price. With training. There are some aspects
of training that can be AI led, But remember AI
(21:13):
isn't there yet. To realize that a third of your
audience isn't listening. AI doesn't know that. AI can't pick
up on that. An LMS or self study format also
can't pick up on that. These lms's and you know
we're talking about like the self study classes that you do,
and the AI stuff isn't going to get your company vision.
(21:34):
It isn't going to get your company culture. That is
still left up to company leaders. The AI, the automated services,
they just aren't there yet. You know, do I think
they're going to get there? Yes, But I'm not shaking
in my boots. I'm not worried about the AI is
taking work away from me because they at this point
in time and I don't see in the near future
(21:56):
AI being able to understand the company culture and portray
that during a training program. Now that's not to say
that I don't believe a self study LS format doesn't
have any use.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That would be wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But you have to figure out what use I wanted
to have and what use I don't want it to
have AI. LMS could be really good for a simple
safety program, right, how do I set up a ladder?
How do I have simple job site safety? You know,
it can save us time. That can really work. But
if I want to talk about genuine, genuine onboarding, I
(22:30):
may use AI for this much of it, LMS self
study for this much of it, this much of it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I still want face.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
To face because my people, when they're engaged, are going
to sell my company better than a self study or
an AI can.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This is true. This is true.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So I want to dive a little bit into c learn.
Tell the listeners, you know, see learn what there is
to offer. Or you're based in North Carolina to you
new national work self study, self study courses, virtual face
to face, just speak on sea learned for a little
(23:10):
bit for us.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Sure we do anything well within the construction industry and
training wise that you would want us to do. We
have the ability to sell LMS programs for you. We
we're working with a client right now based out of Texas.
They're a national commercial developer, so and we're working that
was the company that has the SOPs but no training programs.
(23:32):
All right, let's let us teach you how to write
the training programs. We're not going to write them for you,
let us teach you how to write them. Then we
have local companies that have hired us to do, you know,
a leadership series for them, So nine hours leadership series.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How do we do time management?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
How do we communicate with our customers and our vendors.
So we have that whole aspect as well. And we
have another client that we're hoping to get everybody, cross
your fingers, who builds modular homes? Right, he does modular homes.
He's expanding across the state, and he needs to teach
contractors how to assemble his packages. We don't have this
(24:10):
contract yet, but this is the type of self study
program that we could create where we video the contractors
locally assembling his classes, and then we are assembling his
buildings rather and then we develop a self study LMS
type that he can send out to contractors buying his
modular homes and they can watch these and learn how
(24:32):
to assemble his homes.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Wow, that's incredible. And so how can people find you?
What's the easiest way to get in contact with you?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Just yell, super cool, I know, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
So the easiest way is to find us is on
our website, Sea Learned Training dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Okay, and then you're on LinkedIn as well.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We're un on LinkedIn and I'm personally on LinkedIn, Jeff
Mackey or Sea learn I think on LinkedIn, it's just
straight Sea Learned C L E A r N.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So you can find us all of the.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay, perfect, and I'll also go ahead and put that
in the notes as well. So, Jeff, it has been
an absolute pleasure to have you on. We're next door
neighbors essentially, uh in town, so just great to connect
with the local and hopefully we can create another podcast
(25:31):
in the near future.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well that was a lot of fun, Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
The thirty minutes flew by, and I look forward to
meeting you in person.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Awesome. Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
All right, today, I am thrilled to welcome to the
Builder Upper Show, Jeff Makee. Jeff has found his calling
as an expert in training, design, and consultation within our
construction industry.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
He is the.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Founder of Steiler, which is a nationally recognized instructional design
company that creates innovative continuing education, employee training, and professional
certification programs. Jeff is also a licensed general contractor and
a licensed hbac EPA Universal Tech and has created award
(00:42):
winning CE courses, construction on boarding programs, and certifications recognized
by the USDA and National Park Service. So I'm excited
to dive right in with my super cool guests. Jeff,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey, thanks, Jennifer, go around and announce me when I
enter room places that was.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
That was awesome? Really the red carpet for you too,
that'd be great. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
So I want to hear more about your background and
your journey. Can you just share with us you know
what led to you? How did you get into the
construction industry and then ultimately starting sealer?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Wow, I mean I don't think we have time for
let me try to Cliff note that that's such a
long story. So immediately out of high school, I wasn't
ready for college or prepared for college. And I got
a job Framan Houses and started working in construction for
oh until I was about twenty three, and then I
was also involved in professional rescue services and that's where
(01:44):
I was introduced to teaching and instructing. And then I discovered, hey, man,
I would really I'm a really great trainer. That's my
calling R That's what I did. I was fortunate to
learn that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Very early on.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'm great at creating the design structures, communicating with people.
I'm really good at getting that information across and getting
people to engage and pay attention to the content. So
you know, where do you find a program that does
that at a university? I was like, I want to
go to college. So I started looking around, mainly in
North Carolina schools, and I discovered that Western Carolina University
(02:19):
will allow you to create your own degree. There was
a process involved with that, you know, I had to
justify while it was needed. I combined four different colleges
within the university. I had to present that to all
of the deans at the university and then they accepted it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Actually created my own degree in creating professional training and
certification programs, and then through a series of lifelong events,
I found myself launching sea Learn five.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Six years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
This is our sixth year. So six years I launched
sea Learn. This is actually our second, my second instructional
design company, and.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, we really have a good time.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So it kind of merged to that background of construction,
which I've been in and out of my entire life.
Like I said, I did spend a time as a
licensed general contractor, still have the licenses, and I was
just like, hey man, this is a great way to
merge both. And there's a real need within the construction
industry to bring better training and engagement to the community
(03:22):
as a whole.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Absolutely, So let's talk more about workforce development and training
since that's like really your bread and butter. So what
do you find to be the biggest challenges construction company
space in training their workforce?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
You know, that's again it's not such a simple answer,
but the truth is, for decades now, people in the
trades have been declining.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
There's no new workforce.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Working in construction got to be equated with a dirty job,
and sometimes it literally is. But it's not dirty work,
you know, like this is good employment. So the people
entering all of the trades has just been going down
and people are starting to age out. How do we
keep these employees and how do we attract new employees?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, it's all about engagement.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
We hear that word engagement all of the time, but
what does that actually mean?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
What does engagement mean?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
You read the statistics and they say things like, hey,
lesson a third of employers engage with their employees. You know,
like I said, we're hearing that word all the time,
but what does it really mean. Well, engagement means emotional
buy in from my staff, emotional buying from my employees.
I want somebody to want to stay a little longer.
(04:34):
I want somebody to want to go the extra step. Right,
I'm hanging trim in the house. I've made a mistake,
you know. Do I leave and deal with it tomorrow? Well,
the homeowner may come and see that, and they don't
understand it was a mistake. So I want my staff
to stay there and fix it before they go home.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
It's five o'clock. Normally they start packing up.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I want them to say, man, I'm going to stay
here till five point thirty because I really care about Jeff,
I really care about Jeff's company, and I really care
about doing a good job for the company. So engagement
is that emotional buy in, Jennifer, That's really what we're
all about.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So give me some examples of that engagement, Like what
can a company do to engage.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
When when we talk about training, it's engagement is not
a one it's not a one step solution. And I'm
a firm believer with my company and also the clients
that we seek out that for my company to grow,
I need to see each individual person within my company
grow their career and their personal life. So if I
(05:37):
help them develop all of their skills, even though they
may leave me right even though they may leave me
one day because they've they've you know, grown so much
professionally and personally. If I help them grow, they are
going to help me grow.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
That's the bottom line.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
And let's say that I have the staff member that
I train up and I get them to become qualifier
and pass the test credentials. They may stay with me
two or three years longer than they would have because
they don't want to leave me shorthanded, and they're getting
something back out of employment besides just a paycheck. So
when we talk about engagement and training folks, that's really
what we mean want. I need to train them to
(06:18):
do their job with me to the best of their ability,
but I also want to promote their professional and personal
life because when we have.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
That mutual growth, mutual gain is achieved. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Absolutely, And earlier you had mentioned that we have this
labor shortage going on in the construction industry. It's hard
to retain new folks are not wanting to join the industry.
So what advice would you give young professionals entering the
construction industry today?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
People want to work for a company that's growing.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
If we can demonstrate to the folks that we are
well organized and that we're growing and that we will
help them grow, that's going to be your biggest step
in getting the talent. Now, there's a broader community step
that we have to take to as a whole, which
we're already suffering from.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
We're looking at the statistics, you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Know, the average age according to the licensing board, the
North kind of licensing board for general contractors, the average
age for the qualifiers to people to pass the test
is fifty five or above. So we need to demonstrate
to folks that this isn't a dirty word.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Construction isn't a dirty ward. This is a viable.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Career that you can be very, very financially successful at
with flexibility and freedoms to move forward. And really the
sky is becoming the limit with our labor force. There's
really unlimited income potential now as you move up, whether
it's a licensed electrician, plumber, general contractor HVAC framer, Lord,
(07:52):
have mercy. We are so short on framers right now.
I was just talking to a construction company down the
road and they were saying, Jeff, we just can't find framer.
We can't find framers. There's nobody that knows how to
frame a roof. You know, it's hard work. I prefer
framing over any other aspect of construction. But those guys
are going to be millionaires.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
You know, they're going.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
To be making at least six digits quite literally in
the next few years because the demand is going to
be there and the skill set isn't.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, absolutely, So what can you do? What can they do?
What can we do as a construction industry with like
innovations right So, it's not this dirty industry. What innovations
can we do in the construction industry in training and
education to help address this skilled labor shortage?
Speaker 2 (08:40):
You know, that's that's right where we make our bread
and butter.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Obviously, Jennifer, I feel like I'm about to launch into
a sales pitch on this, which keep the sales pitch
out of it, right, But we're when we're first working
within the community, which we all should be in some way,
shape or form, whether it's the high schools, the colleges,
we should all be involved in some sort of workforce development,
educating folks, educating the young people coming up that the
(09:05):
trades are important. You can make six digits or even
more within the trades. So that's the first step. Collaboration
within the community. If you have an opportunity to collaborate
within your local community, encouraging people, introducing them that this
is good work, it can be fun work, and it
is very financially rewarding work. That's our first step. The
(09:27):
second step is within your own company. You need to
develop onboarding programs. They need to be consistent, so they
need to have structure to them. Every onboarding program you
have needs to be highly structured. The problem we're already
seeing even with National Builders. We're working with a client
right now, and they have a decent training program. They've
(09:50):
got an entire training department. Let me say that they've
got three full time members that don't do anything but
training within their organization.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That said, we started.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Meeting with them because the C suite folks, the higher
up folks, came and took some of our trainings and
they said, Jeff, there's a disconnect with our staff. We
don't understand why these people are not asking questions or
we put them through the training and then they're not
following the protocols.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
They're not following the SOPs. So we reached out to
these folks and.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
We discovered that they're using their SOPs as training documents.
I finally, I was sitting down talking with these folks
and I was like, you guys, what is an SOP?
And you know, the all three of these team members
looked at me and they were like, are you an idiot?
You don't know what an SOP is? And I said,
you guys, just tell me what an SOP is. And
of course standard operating procedure JAT said, is that a
(10:39):
training program. You're training off the SOP, and that's not
the same as training people to do the sop. Right,
Reading off an sop isn't training the sop. Some parts
people will listen to really well, other parts they're not
going to hear quite as well. So we design a
training program to emphasize the harder parts. So it's a
completely different structure of communicating the SOP. That's going to
(11:04):
be critically important because when people come join our team,
we need to show them that we have things together
and any individual, any team member within that company should
be portraying the same training in the same information. And
it all starts with that fundamental training program having the
consistency and detail so that everybody can learn the information
(11:26):
the same way and more importantly, everybody can communicate the
information the same way.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Absolutely, So let's talk then about that continuing education. Okay, So,
how can companies ensure continuous learning and upskilling for their
employees in the field.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
So another really great question, Jennifer, and I'm going to
throw out a great example that's happening right nowa ZAA.
So in North Carolina, starting in January twenty twenty six,
we will enter in an all new energy efficient building code.
This is information building techniques and strategies that we've never
had to do before. We're not going to change it.
(12:10):
We're not going to delay it. It's already been delayed
by a year. This is coming. This is going to
be critically important, not just for the contractors to understand,
but my project managers, you know, all of my folks
on board need to understand what these changes are happening.
What's happening. And here's an example. Moving forward, we will
have to do a blower door test. We're gonna have
(12:32):
to seal the house up, pressurize the house, and make
sure that it's air tight.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We've never had to do that before. Some builders have
been doing.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It already, but they're very, very few. We have to
measure the air changes an hour, So that's going to
have to be measured to three air changes an hour
by a third party with the blower door test. If
it leaks more than three air changes an hour, you're
not going to get to your co You're not going
to pass the inspection.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
You have to do that.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
So how many folks out there know what an air
change is an hour is? I don't just need to
know that as the manager, as the leader of the company,
my framers need to understand that that's what we're headed towards.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right yeh.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I need every step along the way to understand how
to seal up all of these air gaps, how to
make the house tighter, because I can't close any air
gaps after the drivewall goes up. I can't get to
those areas anymore. If it's leaking, it's leaking.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's done. I have to rip the drywall back off.
So every step along the way needs to understand what.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
This new building code is, how to measure it, and
what we need to do along the process. So continued
education is great for the owner's licenses in North Carolina
require the continued education, but we should be bringing this
type of training to everybody within our company because this
affects every step along the way.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
And so with I mean it's a domino effect.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
So with c learn, are they coming to you for
this training where you're saying, here's the new code, this
is what we're going to do in it, or you
actually going out to the companies and training. Let's say
like on site.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
We do a combination of all of those things. Our
bread and butter is continuing education. These are the types
of classes we put together for our continued education. But
we also do consulting, so we go out and we
help folks design their onboarding programs.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Like like I said, look at your SOPs.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Let us help you create a training program based on
your SOPs that also includes your company culture and your
company vision and your company mission.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Those things are.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Frequently left out, especially by the larger you know, training
are us type companies. So we we do the continued education,
we'll do the onboarding programs, but then we will also
create custom certification programs for you, such as teaching your
staff about the air changes an hour, So we cover
the gamut of all of those.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So let's talk more about this onboarding. I'm in tech
and you know one thing we do is is help
construction companies onboard their employees. So what stratag have proven
most effective which you say for onboarding new construction workers
you mentioned earlier consistency? What else is there out there
for them?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So that's a really good question. As I mentioned before,
culture and vision are really important. How often is there
a training program or a training consultant that moves in
that doesn't learn your company culture or your company and
we all talk about that, what is company culture, what
does that mean?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (15:26):
It's pretty much the personality that we want the company
to portray.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That's in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I mean, everybody has varying degrees of what culture is,
but ultimately it's the personality. So we need to incorporate
that into the training program. But when we're looking at
creating a training program, we'll go out and talk to folks,
talk to a clients, and we say, all right, what
are the things that people really get when you hire
a new.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Employee, what are the things they struggle with?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
And then we'll examine that information and then we'll go
through and we'll design the training program that may touch
on the easy things once maybe twice, but then we'll
isolate the things that are harder for people to get
and we'll make sure that we format the training program
to talk about those two, three or even four times.
(16:14):
So that's one simple strategy and an example of that.
We just did an onboarding program for a local company
called simperfive, and with their training program, one of the
things they had difficulty with with their project managers was
learning their admin time and what to do during their
admin time. So each project manager has required a minimum
(16:34):
of two hours at the desk every week, and that
can be challenging for a project manager because you know,
those folks are always out there visiting the job sites,
checking the progression, making sure the lumber or packages were delivered.
So coming back and sitting in the office can be challenging.
Sitting the office is critically important. That's where they're managing
the schedule. That's where making phone calls three weeks out
(16:55):
to get folks to show up. That was the part
that his staff was really struggling with. So we took
all of that project management time, those two hour office time,
and we put that in its own section within the
onboarding program. So we talked about all of those duties. First,
most folks think about, hey, i'm going to do a
training program, I'm going to do it sequentially step one.
(17:16):
We're going to talk about step one first, we're going
to talk about step two.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Second.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
That's not necessarily the best way to do a training program.
We want to focus on the hardest things first. So
in this particular case, we did all of the things
that are going on in your admin time. We want
to talk about all of those things, all of those duties,
what are your task lists, what are your meeting agendas,
how are you doing your scheduling? And then we went
into the sequence. Hey, step one you do this. Hey,
(17:43):
remember we talked about the admin time. This is where
that plugs in. Step two, you do this. Hey, Remember
we talked about the admin time. This is where you
do that.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So in that.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Particular case, we were able to target the hardest parts
for the employees to learn and talk about it a
minimum of two times, once as a hole to get
it in there, and then we talk about it in
sequence how it actually fits in to their day to
day life and their week to week progression through the projects.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So that's one of the.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Things that a training specialist can do that somebody and
we don't do anything but training. That's all we do,
and that's really where our talent comes in. Jennifer is saying, Okay,
let's get that through an interesting fact that most people
don't recognize. At any given time, one third of your
audience isn't listening to anything you say. Wow, right, and
(18:30):
I don't care if you paid money to go see
the comedian at the nightclub. At one third are you
paid you two hundred bucks. At one third of the time,
or at any given time, one third of the audience
isn't listening to that comedian they paid money to go see.
They're thinking about their kids, They're thinking about their work
the next day. They're thinking about what's for dinner, the
(18:52):
soccer game. I've got to take my childhood on Saturday.
They're thinking about the game coming up with their friends
and the camping trip. You know, So you're thinking about
we're all doing it right. We're all thinking about things
all of the time. So you can't be insulted or
upset when people.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Aren't listening to you.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
You have to come up with a different strategy to
get the information to them different ways at different timing
to make sure everybody gets that information.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And that's what makes you send an effective trainer is
you understand that there's different ways of communicating out the
same information.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Correct. Awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So let's talk about technology in the industry right doing onboarding?
How would you say companies can leverage like AI automation
just for onboarding? How can they do it for managing
(19:51):
their projects? Last night, I was just at a CFMA
event and Charlotte and the topic was AI very interesting?
So you want to kind of hear it from your perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
What are your.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Thoughts on AI automation.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Yeah, it's a really good question, and in fact, AI
is gonna take some people's jobs away. A really good
friend of mine, she's been friends with We've been great
friends since high school thirty forty years now. Gosh, I
guess I am that old. And she is a voiceover actress.
You've probably heard her hundreds of times, everything from the
American Airlines recorded voice to movie trailers to commercials. I
(20:30):
guarantee you've heard Wendy hundreds of times. I was just
hanging out talking to Wendy the other day, going, Wendy
is the AI voiceover stuff taking work away from you?
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Says Jeff.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
I've already lost three contracts, so it's devastating.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
For her and that industry. So AI is real, it
is happening, and it is taking some people's jobs.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
On that note, it's making things more affordable for companies
like me. Right, I can't afford to hire Wendy, she's
just too expensive. She's that good, Right, But now I
can afford to have those voiceovers because AI can do
it as good a job as she can at a
fraction of the price. With training. There are some aspects
of training that can be AI led, But remember AI
(21:13):
isn't there yet. To realize that a third of your
audience isn't listening. AI doesn't know that. AI can't pick
up on that. An LMS or self study format also
can't pick up on that. These lms's and you know
we're talking about like the self study classes that you do,
and the AI stuff isn't going to get your company vision.
(21:34):
It isn't going to get your company culture. That is
still left up to company leaders. The AI, the automated services,
they just aren't there yet. You know, do I think
they're going to get there? Yes, But I'm not shaking
in my boots. I'm not worried about the AI is
taking work away from me because they at this point
in time and I don't see in the near future
(21:56):
AI being able to understand the company culture and portray
that during a training program. Now that's not to say
that I don't believe a self study LS format doesn't
have any use.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
That would be wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But you have to figure out what use I wanted
to have and what use I don't want it to
have AI. LMS could be really good for a simple
safety program, right, how do I set up a ladder?
How do I have simple job site safety? You know,
it can save us time. That can really work. But
if I want to talk about genuine, genuine onboarding, I
(22:30):
may use AI for this much of it, LMS self
study for this much of it, this much of it.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I still want face.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
To face because my people, when they're engaged, are going
to sell my company better than a self study or
an AI can.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This is true. This is true.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So I want to dive a little bit into c learn.
Tell the listeners, you know, see learn what there is
to offer. Or you're based in North Carolina to you
new national work self study, self study courses, virtual face
to face, just speak on sea learned for a little
(23:10):
bit for us.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Sure we do anything well within the construction industry and
training wise that you would want us to do. We
have the ability to sell LMS programs for you. We
we're working with a client right now based out of Texas.
They're a national commercial developer, so and we're working that
was the company that has the SOPs but no training programs.
(23:32):
All right, let's let us teach you how to write
the training programs. We're not going to write them for you,
let us teach you how to write them. Then we
have local companies that have hired us to do, you know,
a leadership series for them, So nine hours leadership series.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
How do we do time management?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
How do we communicate with our customers and our vendors.
So we have that whole aspect as well. And we
have another client that we're hoping to get everybody, cross
your fingers, who builds modular homes? Right, he does modular homes.
He's expanding across the state, and he needs to teach
contractors how to assemble his packages. We don't have this
(24:10):
contract yet, but this is the type of self study
program that we could create where we video the contractors
locally assembling his classes, and then we are assembling his
buildings rather and then we develop a self study LMS
type that he can send out to contractors buying his
modular homes and they can watch these and learn how
(24:32):
to assemble his homes.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Wow, that's incredible. And so how can people find you?
What's the easiest way to get in contact with you?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Just yell, super cool, I know, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
So the easiest way is to find us is on
our website, Sea Learned Training dot com.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Okay, and then you're on LinkedIn as well.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We're un on LinkedIn and I'm personally on LinkedIn, Jeff
Mackey or Sea learn I think on LinkedIn, it's just
straight Sea Learned C L E A r N.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So you can find us all of the.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay, perfect, and I'll also go ahead and put that
in the notes as well. So, Jeff, it has been
an absolute pleasure to have you on. We're next door
neighbors essentially, uh in town, so just great to connect
with the local and hopefully we can create another podcast
(25:31):
in the near future.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well that was a lot of fun, Jennifer.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
The thirty minutes flew by, and I look forward to
meeting you in person.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Awesome. Sounds good.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
If you're a construction contractor and would like to appear
as a guest on our podcast, write us an email.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's Lou at lumberfi dot com.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.