How to Master Sales with Mike Manzi

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Episode Transcript

(00:12):
All right, here we are anotherbullet on network marketing warfare podcasts if you're
new to this. The purpose ofdoing these podcasts, why I started this
is I was embarrassing in the networkmarketing profession for a long damn time.
I got in it over ten yearsago. Started with it, I didn't
understand. I thought I was gonnamake six figures in my first six months,
had no clue what I was doing, regurgitated the same emotionalism, hype,

(00:35):
sensationalism crap that everybody did, andI didn't know what I was doing.
It was also a cop at thetime, and it was very embarrassing.
When I left law enforcement and Iwanted to dive back into network marketing
full time, full profession wise.It was embarrassing because people are like,
oh, yeah, you're in salesand you're a pyramid scam guy, and
so I wanted to understand the industry. The purpose of this these podcast episodes

(00:58):
is to bring on people who areprofessions, professionals in their craft and can
give some integrity, help give usintegrity back into a very very very shitty,
misunderstood industry, a manipulated industry.We want to change it. I
want to bring integrity back in this. I have Mike Manzy with me today.
I want to read this because it'sperfect and I want to do justice

(01:19):
for this. This is Mike Manzi. He's a five time head of sales
with over one hundred million sold.After bringing multiple companies from one to five
million dollars, two ten to fiftymillion dollars and growing sales teams in six
continents, Mike has taken away keytechniques, emails, scripts, and the
processes that make any sales organization performat a high level. Now averaging over

(01:45):
a million views a week on hissocial media channels. We'll talk about that
Official Sales Tips, Official Sales leadersTips. He's building out an entire out
board lead generated machine and sales machinesin sixty days for companies under ten million
to head with no head of sales. Mike number one, I've been trying

(02:05):
to get you on for a while. I actually put a ton of production
on hold to get you because Ithink that this is the next step and
where I've been going. Yeah,God guilty. And that one. I
haven't done a podcast in about amonth or two because this was the next
step. The crucial sales aspect ofthis. So thank you for taking the
time out. And man, I'mpretty sure it's here. I'm happy to
be here. Great. All right, let's so we gotta we got to

(02:27):
discuss this. The first thing Iwant to do is I want to talk
about sales in a general aspect.What the hell is sales? Can you
define that? Yeah? So,sales is you trying to move one person
to do something that you want thatperson to do. That's it. That's
it. Wow, that's it.I'm trying to move you to do something
I want you to do. Andthen a lot of times, look in

(02:50):
the perfect world, we find peoplethat already want to do that thing,
and I'm simply a person who isassisting you in moving from here to here.
And then in a more tougher outboundworld, you're the one who's pushing
that that thought and getting someone todo something that you want them to do.
So I say that and make itso vague, because realistically, me
getting my wife to want to goto dinner when she was like, oh

(03:13):
we can eat here, I'm sellingher on that idea, and which is
the same thing as me trying toget Amazon to, you know, buy
some major product that I have right, So they're both selling, just at
different levels. I had a hardtime with the sales concept in network marketing
because we were under the guise ofwe want to change the world and we

(03:34):
really want to help people, andit was so softened so that anybody and
their mother could do it that itreally failed me. It wasn't until the
day that I was watching my mentorsand all these people who were really good
at whether or not they're realized thatmanipulation and not influence that I went,
wait a second. I was thebest salesman in the world. My job

(03:55):
was to show up on scene andtake you combative and talk you into handcuffs
and make you think it was agreat idea without any resistance. When I
realized I've been selling my entire life. This is ridiculous, That's when things
open up for me. Why doessales have such a negative connotation. Why
do people shy away from sales?Why do people kind of associate sales with

(04:18):
like the seventies car salesmen and allthat. Why do we have such a
bad connection to sales? Yeah,because what at the end of the day.
Another way of thinking about sales ismy job is to get you to
part with your money. Now,a good salesperson and worth high integrity only
wants people to part with their moneyif they believe that what they're going to

(04:43):
give them will be worth exactly whatthey gave or more right like, I
don't care to take someone's money ifI know an exchange they're going to get
so much value and in fact forwhat I offer, I always offer half
the money back if things don't workout for no, even if you if
they do work out, but youneed the money back, no sweat because
I don't want I want to getrid of that fear that you're just trying

(05:05):
to get me to part ways ofmy money. And I think the other
is the other is the idea ofsales is manipulation. And I don't I
don't think. I think that there'sa fine line between manipulation and persuasion.
And I think one just has aconnotation of, you know, nefariousness,

(05:26):
and one doesn't. So but itstill feels like a black box, you
know. Um, it feels asthough if someone is selling to me,
they're doing something tricky. To mymind, they become a hip hypnotist.
But imagine a hypnotist who was tryingto get you to part ways of your
money, you'd be very afraid oftalking to the hypnotist. And even though

(05:47):
that's not what we're doing, peoplefeel like we're going to have some control
over them and therefore are nervous aboutit, and they also I think the
I think really realistically, people justdon't want, don't feel like our tensions
are to have their interests aligned,which for a lot of sales reps they
don't. And it's challenging if you'rein a incent if you have an incentive

(06:09):
to have someone part ways of theirmoney, but there's no incentive to make
to say, only make people partways of their money if the product you're
going to give them is going tohelp them, then you do have like
a misaligned incentive. So I've seencompensation plans that can help with that,
where you you know, if someonedoesn't wants their money back or has a
bad experience or whatever, you getclawed back and that actually will align you

(06:32):
to have that same experience with customers. One of the reasons I wanted John
was when I wanted to start sharpeningmy skills and translated into you know,
network marketing and actually selling products.I started looking online, like crazy,
you know who's a sales trainer?Who's this? And obviously I go back
to Jordan Peterson or not or JordanBelford all the time. Um, sure
like his stuff, he's no nonsense. When I came across your content,

(06:55):
I'm going to put you in thesame category as him because of the energy
that you give off. When Isort of watch your TikTok, your your
your content, I was like,this is a genuine person who is no
bullshit. But you're not like thathardened nobules. You actually care what comes
across uh in in in what you'reputting out there. How did you get

(07:15):
involved in sales? And then howdid you why did you feel this pull
to teach? And I know whatmakes you stand out as a leader in
the sales industry, but what doyou think makes you stand out in as
a leader in sales? Dust Ireally appreciate that. I mean, I
don't, I don't. I don't. I wouldn't put myself in the same
category. But I think that whatwe do have in common is yeah,
it's no bullshit. And I thinkwhat he talks about, what I talked

(07:35):
about a lot too, is justhow do I simplify this, like,
let's not talk about high level Sandlerin it or methodology, Like what is
the phrase I should say? Isthere a tone I can use that will
allow me to become more have moreauthority in my talk, in the way
that I talk, so that wedo have in common. And I think
that that's one of the reasons thatI've been successful on social platforms in particular,

(07:59):
because I think that that's what wecrave more. I mean, you
know, people that are my father'sage that they prefer like a book and
they want to read the three hundredpages, and I think people that are
my age, they want the bulletnotes, they want the smart notes.
Right now. How I got startedin sales. My father was in sales
and he owned a small fastener industry, a fastener company, and I kind

(08:22):
of I was I got most talkativein high school and I was like runner
up for the loudest and class clownon that kind of stuff. So I
had like the stereotypical personality of asales rep. And so I felt,
this is what I should be doing. I should go into sales, And
so I started at a company whereI was selling the international trips to high
schools. So the Spanish teacher wantsto take all the kids to Spain or

(08:45):
Mexico. I was the person whosold that sold that trip. Within a
few years of selling, I startedfinding that I had little systems that other
people just didn't have. You know, how do I make sure that I'm
making the right amount of outbound phonecall? And how do I make sure
that I can close my deals?And how do I approach them. I'm
in a way that every month I'ma little bit more consistent, and other

(09:07):
people didn't have that, and otherpeople didn't have the tones that I would
take on calls quite figured out.So I started being like a go to
guy for questions. And it feelsreally good when you help somebody out,
Like when someone comes to you andsays, dude, I did that and
I closed it or whatever. You'relike, that's it. I don't need

(09:28):
drugs. This is the best.So that's how I got started. And
then I was given a team thatI was unqualified for to manage, and
then I was only there for ashort period of time. So I started
trying to start up thing. Wentto another company as a sales rep.
It's like another team. I hadabsolutely no business managing and was terrible as
a manager, and then over thenext couple of companies became better and better

(09:50):
and leadership and ultimately got to thepoint where I had thirty people underneath me
and all these different continents and buildingbusinesses. Now, the last two years
I've been spend taking what are thosesystems, what are those templates of things
that you can do that I canprint and do all over the world ideally,

(10:11):
Right, So why I think I'vebeen successful is simply my brain is
wired like a lot of people's brains, which is to like look through the
bullshit and just go, what's thephrase, what's the tone, what's the
twenty percent that I can do thatwill leverage the other eighty percent. And
by being able to do that andthen do it up multiple places, I've

(10:33):
been able to see not only whatare those little things that make a big
difference, but also which of thoselittle things that make a big difference our
work ubiquitously regardless of company size,product, your country. One of the
biggest problems I have is you're justdescribing sales teams is in network marketing,
and it's it's a horrible industry thatyou know, it's my profession, but

(10:54):
it's a horrible industry because we havepeople who try to pitch and close and
recruits without saying, yeah, thisis sales. And when a person gets
in and that doesn't understand, understandthat they're gonna have to do some of
the most comfort uncomfortable things, whichis ask people or influence them or lead
them to buy a product. Youget them the perpetual Oh, I got

(11:16):
scammed into X, Y and Z. Do you have any experience in the
mL industry And I kind of wantto talk about the team leadership you went
through, because that's the number oneproblem people have in this industry is you
can get in, you can sella product like crazy, but then they
all talk about duplication and it's yeah, three percent success rate in duplication.

(11:37):
I don't know if you have anyexperience in that. And what is your
criticism of the industry. Yeah,I mean so a lot of questions there.
I do have experience in the mLspace, not from my own but
one of my customers sells presentation softwarethat everyone in the network marketing space should
get. It's called I Decide It'sincredible. Basically, the ability to make

(11:58):
a presentation that is that's automatically personalizesto the person you're you're selling to.
So instead of you having to doa big presentation in front of a hundred
people and find those one hundred peopleand get them into a group, you
could send this presentation to one hundredpeople and they can all see it and
it's all personalized to them, justlike you would want it to be.
Now, that's one that's that's thecrux of my experience with it. I
think that the the you know,my criticism of the space is the incentive.

(12:26):
You know, there's no weight.How do I say this? The
incentive is not weight is not balanced. There's an incentive to bring people on,
but there's no incentive to make surethat they're the right people. If
someone if you're selling herbal life orwhatever, and you get someone to buy
ten thousand dollars of products but theycan't push it, you still make money

(12:48):
and that person's screwed. And inlike the software space, if I sell
use a product and it doesn't work, you're not going to renew or you're
not going to pay, and asa result, I'm not going to get
paid, or I might get firedbecause I'm selling something that I shouldn't be
song in the first place. Soyou need that counterweight to keep the integrity
of the sales people alive now onthe sales team side their replicability. Let

(13:13):
me tell you if you ever wanta human to do something that you if
you need a human to do somethingthat's different from what they're doing today,
there's three things that you need.You need clarity, you need follow up,
and I'm now blanking on the thirdone. I feel like Rick carry,
but you need you need clarity,follow up, and support. Okay.
So the first is if I wantyou to mow my lawn, I

(13:37):
need to be like, hey,here's the lawnmower, this is the lawn,
here's how you turn it on.Here's exactly how you do it.
Is it's clear what I'd like youto do, Okay, can you do
it now? And just like theconfirm you know what I'm talking about?
Great, I am clear. Youare clear on exactly what your task is
from the beginning to the end andwhat includes completely. So now it's clear
if it wasn't clear to be like, oh can I do it? Am

(14:00):
I doing it right? The nextis follow up, So people only do
the minimum that they feel like isrequired in order to succeed and whatever that
success is. So if I sayto the lawnmower guy, hey, mow
the lawn and he kind of likedoesn't wick it fast and so it doesn't
cut all the blades of grass,he's like, whatever, we're good.
And if he doesn't, if hecomes back the next week and I'm like,

(14:22):
good job, and then he doesn'tcome back for three weeks and I
don't say anything, He's like,okay, I'll go to he's gonna pay
me every week. Anyways, I'lljust come every three weeks. I'll do
the minim that's required. So whenyou follow up with somebody, every time
you're following up, you're saying thisis serious, this is really important,
and it stays top of mind.So that's the second thing. So if
it's clear but it's not followed upon, I'm not going to do it.

(14:43):
And then the final thing is support. So you need to actually help
people do this whatever it is.So it needs to be clear how to
do it, but you also wantto make it easy. So I'm gonna
show him, like, hey,let me hold the lawnmower with you.
And do it with you, andoh you mess it up last time,
let me show you how you canmake it better. So if you're miss
seeing any of those three things,when you want a person on your team
to do something, they're not goingto do it. They'll do it for

(15:05):
a short period of time because youdidn't follow up. They'll do it wrong
because you didn't make it clear.They won't do it right, and we'll
continue to do it wrong because youdidn't make it easy. Does that take
a certain type of person that weshould look for as sales teams, Because
as you're saying this, the onething I've noticed in today's generation is it's
so easy to just sit there andhave them go no, I don't care,

(15:26):
and then find something else's lack ofapathy. I go back to my
head, you know, I wassome of the things that made me where
I am today was my competitive wrestlingdays. And I look at well,
I had a coach yelling at me. They would verbally abuse us and put
us through hell, this and that, and I wasn't getting paid for it.
It was school, so I couldhave left the team anytime I went.

(15:46):
Why did I stay in that?What was I getting out of that,
was I getting the wins? WasI getting the good boy pat in
the back? Was I get?What was it doing for me? For
that? And as I go forwardto look at every the professions I was
in, you know, I workedin a bar our industry where you know,
we have a similar background with classclown. I think that must be
an Italian thing. But I workfor a greed who was just scream at

(16:08):
us like crazy, and people wouldgo, why do you take this abuse?
And I would go, because Iwork in a great environment that makes
X amount of dollars a freaking night. It's awesome. Your law enforcement sergeants
or assholes. I guess my pointis I willingly took the abuse because I
liked the pressure testing that built mycharacter, that made me better at things.
You put pressure on people today theyfold. Ever, every time I

(16:32):
go to a network marketing event orI listen to training, it's I believe
in you, Oh, I believeall. You gotta just believe in yourself.
And I would go, you're tellinga room full of grown thirty forty
fifty year old people that they youbelieve in them until they believe in them.
So there's something seriously wrong. There, But that's what our industry is.
We prey upon the almost the peoplewho are looking for some type of

(16:56):
acceptance. Can we change them intopeople who you'll say, hey, this
is how the mode of lawn,these are my expect expectations, this and
that. Most people will go,I didn't sign up for this, You
go find somebody else. Can wetake those people and influence them to a
level that we would want or dowe really need to start changing the way
we look and find people who arewho we need with us. Totally great

(17:22):
question. I get this all thetime. So first, if you look
for people that will be like youand me who like that pressure, something
I look for are people who havehad major adversity in their teenage years because
they had to grow up. Theydidn't have that time frame when you're handling

(17:44):
adversity, but you have a hugesupport network. If you have a list,
perfect family and perfect like whatever,that's how you grow up, right
Like You're like, oh, Ihad a great support never so whatever,
I handle adversity. I can onlyhandle so much without other people helping me,
and I can't. I'm not ableto do it on my own.
But if you're handling a lot ofadversity in that time frame, and you

(18:06):
don't have that support group, thenyou realize you have to handle it yourself,
and so that creates a little hardand shell. And obviously I don't
wish upon anybody you'd have to gothrough adversity at all. But I have
also found that those that have havedone it really well. I think they
did some study too that was like, of all the presidents of the last
like two hundred years or something like, what was like the one thing they
had in common? And I thinkthe one thing was they all had a

(18:29):
sibling who was in jail, sothey had to go through some adversity.
And they also were like, Idon't want to do that. So anyways,
that's that side. But what we'retalking about here, so what we're
talking to psychology a little bit.And I'm not a psychologist, but here's
what I've found. The yelling andscreaming. We like that because what they're
saying is my expectation is this high, and I want to yell and scream

(18:51):
at you, but if you hitit, if you do and you get
an at a boy, it's worthten times more. Right. So you're
like, come over here and getthat at avoid. It's gonna feel really,
really, really good. Now,how do we do that in a
softer way? Because every generation likesto be treated differently, I'm totally fine
with it. For them, whatI believe is actually the best way is

(19:17):
you go, I don't know ifyou'll be able to accomplish this. I
don't know if you can do this, because what we're doing is we're then
inviting them to do it, andthey're saying and what we're saying with them
is and if you do do that, you're gonna get an ativoid. So
before the boss was like, you'rean idiot, you can't do this.
You guys are all dummies. Soyou get it. You got an at

(19:37):
avoid. Now we've got to go. I'm not sure you can do this.
It's gonna be really hard. I'mwhat I'm the translation of that is
you're an idiot, you can't doit, Come get it East Sick.
But I'm saying I'm not sure youwill do it. This is this one's
really challenging. But either one ofthose situations, what the person is hearing
is I'm being challenged to do something. If I do that, I will

(20:02):
get an Adam BOYD. That isreally really valuable. What I think we
do too often is is like thatwe believe in you, because what we're
doing there is I'm Axie saying you'regonna be great, You're awesome. So
now I haven't done anything yet,and it's like just if I if I
do amazing, you already think ofamazing. So if I do amazing,
I get nothing, You're like,I told you you're amazing. No,

(20:26):
Adam boy We're fin Instead go like, I don't know if you guys have
it in you to do it.Then the people who are like I might
have it in they're like, I'mwilling to do it. So I actually
think just softening the actual language butsaying effectively the same thing, which is
this will be hard, is whatgets someone to move up. Now,
people, there are people that areafree to do hard things. So for

(20:51):
them, what you want to bedoing is saying this is gonna be hard,
but you have a community, youhave these resources. If you you
know, if you can't do that, now was the time. The most
important thing in your life to dofor anything is pushing yourself. So maybe
this is the thing you want topush yourself to do. Maybe it's not

(21:11):
in that language of what I'm saying. I'm making it their choice. You
know, you don't have to dothis, and so I'm almost making it
scarce. This is not for everybody, and this is gonna be hard,
and I don't know if everybody's goingto succeed at it. That means if
I do it, I'm special,and if I do it well, I'm
very special. So if you insteadgo I believe it, you can all

(21:33):
do it. Now It's like ifI, if I do it, I'm
not special, and if I doit really well, I'm just regular.
So that's what I think we shouldbe doing. Modifying your your approach as
a leader. One of the problemsthat I openly have is I come from
just if you were told to doit one way, you do it and

(21:53):
there's no ambiguity what I'm saying orwhat the person is telling me. I
gotta get it done. And Ilike that. I appreciate that. I
like black and white. What I'veseen over the last several years of growing
teams is I'll start with a teamof ten twenty and then I'll always dwindle
down. I don't have the hardyou know, there's very rare times I
go do it my way or I'mnot gonna work with you, and that

(22:15):
usually takes several times of me withthe carrot and the stick until I don't
get what I need? Is therea danger? This is the crossroads I'm
at. I can take a groupof ten or twenty people and in the
network marketing space constantly feed there needsto be accepted, right because the network
marketing it's either culture and community orthe product itself or the money we make.

(22:37):
And most people are in there becausethey want to have I mean,
it's why it's mostly women, right, because they want that loving energy of
community and all this. The dangerI find is that unless you're so open
about saying, yeah, you're gonnacome together every x day during the week,
we're going to talk about our feelingsand the snat and blah blah blah.
You're not gonna make money, butyou're gonna be part of a commun

(23:00):
Unless we address that, you getmost people who they don't make any money
in network marketing, but I'm stillmaking money because I'm feeding your needs of
being part of a group. I'mI can't. I can't do that in
my mind, I haven't. Ihaven't been able to do that because I
want the people who are going tomake a ton of money, and I
know I'm going all over the place. I'm gonna I'm forming a question as

(23:21):
I think here. Um, theproblem is that that pressure that I would
want somebody to attain to go outand sell and grow and pitch and and
and succeed. It's so damn hardwhen most of the people who are successful
in the network marketing space are justthe pied pipers. They're the people who

(23:41):
they meet the needs of the people, which is ego feeding connection. Hey,
I'm having a bad day. Canyou listen to my problems? You
become a psychologist, is it?Well, if you're in this profession,
you can make a good amount ofmoney selling hardcore doing all this, or
as a network maketing leader in asales professional. You got to change your

(24:02):
mindset and maybe you have to caterto the masses and start being a little
bit more kumbayash and feed the people. And they're not going to ever reach
a level you will, but youhave to dumb down your methodologies and change
your ways and you'll make a lotof money. Is as trainers, what
is there. I don't know thismaybe individual here there's ultimately a question should

(24:26):
we compensate who we are, whatwe want to do, and what we
want to achieve for the income's sake, right and blanket everybody out there and
be soft and nice and exhaust ourselvesand then meeting in meeting Susie's needs and
Dave needs and this and that.Or can we in twenty twenty three harden
the fuck up and say, Mike, you have to call five people a
day. In the story, youtold me you wanted to do this.

(24:48):
I can't spend any more time workingwith you. This is my way or
it's done. Is one way antiquatedand now we're in a day of social
media. You gotta get likes andfollows and just catered every bunny. Or
is that old school way still applicableor is it a dinosaur methodology? Yeah,
so it's one way, but theone I'm gonna I'm gonna teach you

(25:11):
the coaching method that I think willsolve some of the challenges that you're mentioning.
Now that said, you know,if the same way that like,
as a wrestler, you responded wellto your coach who was like that,
there might have been another wrestler whowas on the team that did not like
that and actually became a worse versionof themselves. So that wrestler, if

(25:36):
they could choose their their coach,we should be like, I don't want
to be in a team with thatkind of manager, that kind of coach,
because I won't respond well to that. And the same thing is true
in reverse. If you're the kindof coach who's like, I'm gonna yell
and scream you need to, andyou're like, that's how I am and
I'm not going to change, whichis okay, choose your own method.
Then you've got to be like,so therefore, I can only have kids

(25:57):
in my team who can who aregoing to respond well to that. So
they're the same way that you know, there are certain types of customers that
are going to be your product atcertain ten customers that are not the same
thing is true on your team becauseeffectively your team are your customers in a
lot of ways. So I wouldfirst say, if someone is like I'm
hard one way or hard the otherway, I'd be like, the only

(26:18):
hire people that respond to your wayor the other way. Now that said,
the way that you get people todo to motivate people is not going
to be through pressure, but it'sgoing to be or external pressure. It
hasn't be through internal pressure. Andso there's a couple of things that I
recommend that people do. The firstis setting super clear expectations. So this

(26:42):
is what happens if you do well, this is what happens if you do
not do well. And I havethose things ideally based on outputs, but
in some cases inputs. So foryou, for example, it might be
like I need you to make tencalls a day, let's say, and
if you don't make ten calls today, you're not going to be accessible.
So when the first person is broughtin, they're like bright eyed, they're

(27:03):
open to whatever, and you go, here, listen, here's the deal.
If you make ten calls a day, here's what's gonna happen to me.
Twenty calls a day, here's gonnahappen. Thirty calls a day,
here's gonna happen. If you makefive calls a day. I'm gonna talk
to you. If you make fivecalls a day, and then you can
start after I talk to you,you still make five calls a day,
I'm gonna tell you, I'm probablynot interested in working with you. If
you make five calls a day andthen I play you don't want to work
with you, then you still makefive calls a day, I'm gonna stop

(27:26):
working. When you say something likethat up front, it makes it clear
the boundaries of their role, andyou're not yelling at them to do these
things. You're simply stating, thisis what good looks like, this is
what bad looks like. You canmake your own choice and you'll see any
consequences of your actions won't be meyelling at you. It'll be me I

(27:47):
decided to hear I'm gonna talk toyou, or me firing you. Okay,
So that's the first thing. Youneed to outline what happens when you
do good, what happens when youdo bad. But most importantly, let's
talk about the coaching method. Whenyou coach somebody, this is not training.
When you coach them, you wantto collaborate on a goal, collaborate
on a plan, collaborate on amilestone, and then offer support. So

(28:11):
I'm gonna say, hey, Timmy, what do you want to do?
Make one hundred thousand dollars great?What's a good plan that we should that
we could put in place to makeyou make one hundred thousand dollars one hundred
thousand dollars, one thousand dollars aperson. I need one hundred customers,
Great, how do you get onehundred hundred customers? Got to make ten
calls for a customer? Great,So you've got to make ten thousand calls.
Sounds good. Okay, I'm gladthat you have your plan make one

(28:33):
thousand calls. So let's let's let'slet's now figure out the milestone is which
in your case, is the milestonemeeting a quantine of thing. You make
a thousand calls, you get ahundred customers. Cool. So now kim
Be decided it was a thousand calls. I did not decide that we Maybe
I had to coax him into that, oh a thousand people, honibly know?
Okay, well maybe it's calls emails. I can coax him to getting

(28:56):
to like an actual hard plan.But he's coming up with a plan,
and then I go, okay,cool, So I'd like to offer you
some support if you're not making athousand calls, if you're not making ten
calls a day, should I followup on you if you're not doing one
hundred posts on social media? Ifthat's what you guys just side of this
plane, Can I follow up onyou? Can I give you call scripts?

(29:17):
So now you can build in howyou're going to fallow up with these
people. For example, I've donethis where people I want people want to
get better at email, and I'mlike, Okay, can you send me
BCC me on every email you sendand I'll give you feedback and you will
know that you're good at email whenI'm no longer giving you any feedback.
And now as a manager, whatI really want is, I'm like,
I just want to fix your freakingemails. But if I said to you,

(29:38):
Tom, you suck. Your emailsare terrible. Send every email to
me. Tom's like, you suck. Get out of it, you said.
I'm like, Tom, you wantto get better at sales? Yes,
how can you do that? Well? Email it's part of it.
Okay, maybe make better emails.Yeah, I think I'll make better emails.
Great, Can I send it?Can you tend them to me and
I'll help you? Yes? Andnow it becomes their idea. So if
this works, because you're you're workingon someone's motivation. So if the beginning

(30:03):
goal is I want to feel goodabout myself, then that's the goal.
I want to feel good about myself. How do you feel good about yourself?
I think one hundred sales and youcan bring it back to what you
want to do, but you needto start with the goal that they care
about and a plan that they believein, not yours, and then you
just have like a third party itemthat you're saying, oh, based on
our numbers here you are going toget fighter. So we're actually looking at

(30:25):
something that's productive and counterintuitive with networkmarketing is you know, the wide and
deep aspect of it. What you'resaying is it's okay to focus on a
few and grow with them instead ofblanketing to the many, which is sadly
what network marketing does. It justit goes out there and you want to
cast your net wide, get everybodyin, and then you're going to deplete

(30:48):
your availability for all. You justrecruited ten people this month, and now
you got to spend time with allten of them. How are you going
to do that? It's yes,And actually this brings up a really important
matrix that I use constantly. It'sa nine box matrix, and what it
is is, uh, the yaxis is potential, low potential, medium
potential, high potential, and theX axis is low performance and medium performance

(31:11):
high performance. And so you cansay, hey, I got someone who's
who's really high potential, but thismonth they did bad or someone who's really
low potential, but this month theyhappened to get a random to get a
big deal or something. And whatyou do is basically, anybody who's in
the top right high potential, highperformance, you want to spend more time
with them. You want to offerthem more support, give them just love,

(31:32):
passing the back or incentives or whatever. People that are at the bottom,
you want to remove them because they'rejust gonna be time summers. And
the people that are sort of inthe middle, they're they're either they're they're
potential is high, but the performanceis low, potential is medium, and
the performances medium potential is low,performances high. People that are in that
that middle spot, those are thefolks you want to be coaching. So

(31:53):
if you can say I got onehundred people and I got my as,
my bees, and my c's,you dump your c's, you have play.
Now you have way more time foryour age. Your age will do
way more than if you bump yourc's to bees whatever new and you go
to your bees and you coach them, and so some become a somebody comes
to eas to drop your c's andthere's m alex or mosey on. TikTok

(32:14):
always mentioned this and I can't agreemore, which is overpay your top performers,
Like, just overpay them because they'regoing to do so much better than
turning your bees into eight players.A universal truth that I found is that
in any like number there's it goeslike this. First place looks like this,
second place looks like this, andthen third and everybody else goes down.

(32:37):
Like with American defense spending. Youknow, we spend those zillion,
next one spends tent one tenth tothat, and it kind of goes down
from there. Top reps in yourteam, one guy in the team does
a bunch, the next person downslike a quarter of what that guy does,
and it goes down from there.So if you can spend more time
with that one guy who's bringing inthirty percent of your revenue and get him
to bring in five percent more you'regonna get a lot more than turning those

(33:00):
other folktions to be players. Igot Mike Manzie on today It's official sales
leader. Tips on Instagram is whereI want to find them, massive page
over there and all on social mediaas well too. Um, I had
a damn great question. Uh shit, what the hell did I have a
question? I'm I can't say Iwhen I do that? Um kind of

(33:22):
cutting bait when oh, hell man, I don't even you were talking about
something in my mind went oh,I could identify so many damn problems,
which was fantastic, and um,you can get more comfort. But let's
let's so either we were talking,I'll talk about nine bucks matrix, top
reps, bottom reps um, sowe can go there, or we can

(33:44):
shift to a new topics, socialmedia or anything you like. We can
I want to, I wanna.I do want to talk about the craze
of where twenty twenty hit and everybodywent home and everybody in their mother's a
sales person. Now, Uh,do you seal see danger in everybody being
an affiliate marketer or everybody doing nowsocial media selling? Do you see this

(34:05):
going into a danger and like it'sgoing to be such a saturated field or
is it necessary? And this isthe new way of doing business. We're
all selling things online. People arealways gonna want to get other people to
give them money for some dinosaurs.Today in the future, what everybody being
online is doing is speeding up thepace of buyers. How I say this

(34:34):
better but people, because so manypeople are now in sales, buyers are
becoming smarter and smarter faster. Sotwenty years whatever. Twenty years ago we
saw a digital display ad, youwere like, ohly cow dad, you
know, and then now display adsare like invisible to us, right,
I think about this too. Eventwo years ago before COVID stuff, really

(34:59):
three years ago, I guess onlysome companies had access to tools that would
mask email people in a sequence oflike email one, two, three,
four. Over COVID, everybody gotthese tools and they went down market so
that anybody like you and me canhave access to them at lower prices,
And so everybody in the planet wasgetting blasted with email sequences. But instead

(35:22):
of being from like big marketing teamsat cool companies, it was like everyone.
So they started marking them as stamppeople, and so now they're not
working so now that would have takenprobably another five years to ultimately happen,
but it was sped up because ofCOVID and because more people are getting involved.
So the same thing is going tobe happening here where like you know,

(35:44):
influencers three years ago on Instagram,you're like, Wow, they really
like that product. That's cool.Now you're like, that's some bs they're
getting paid by that company. Sowe just need to continue to shift how
we do what we did, andthere will be new tools always to to
help stay ahead of the curve.I mean, I'm thinking about even what
I do without bound you know twoyears ago is is right an email and

(36:06):
now I've got to add one hundredlevels of personalization to that email. You
know a year ago you could dovideos. Now there's AI created videos that
are they're personalized. So it's justgoing to be shifting over time. But
just shifting much faster is going backto more old school personalization. Is that
going to be a lost art?I can't believe how many people you know

(36:27):
are all about text and emails,this and that, and they're shocked if
I leave them a voice note,They're shocked if I leave them a video
they're shocked. If you do thatpersonal touch, will people like us being
a little bit more demand Consider thefact that now everything's point click scroll through
your social media and that's impersonal Isthat old method? Does it help at
all? Still? Well, what'sinteresting about this is I do believe that

(36:52):
more personalization will become even more important. But really, when we talk about
personalization, what everybody's looking for.The first thing people are filtering for when
you're interacting with them is is thisa robot? Is this automated? That's
why the voice notice so good becausethat doesn't exist yet that to be automated.

(37:12):
That's why videos were so good acouple of years ago, but now
you know the videos can be automated. That's why emails were good a long
time ago, but now you knowemails can be automated. So, yes,
the personal touch is important, butit's not even so much the personalness
of it. It's the passing thefilter of is this a robot? So

(37:34):
one thing that I'm doing, forexample, is everybody when they're writing emails,
they go to a zoom info orwherever to get people's affirmation. They
use it to customize the email.So it says high first name. I
know that you're the insert title atinsert company. And one of the thing
I'm one of the things I'm doingis I'm before I upload folks into a
system. To do that, I'mshortening the company name. It's to just

(37:57):
the initials because in zoom info,Clean Canteen is in as like clean Canteen
or Clean Canteen, Inc. Butinternally at clean Canteen, they probably refer
to themselves as KK. So nowwhen I reach out, I'm saying,
like, hey, Tom, you'rethe CEO over at KK. That's to
help pass through the are you arobot? And that's just going to be

(38:20):
really important. Finally, what wecan see here is because things are getting
more and more less personal, thingsthat you do that are only kind of
personal make a bigger impact. Sothere's handwritten notes and voice notes and even
like texting I'm cool too, videos, anything that you could do that's STEMI

(38:44):
personal feels really personal. But atthe same time, there's companies out there
that are automating personalness. There's companiesthat will write handwritten notes for you that
are customed my mentor who's in thebusiness I've done her for, you know,
over ten years and she's a hugehandwriter note on everything right. And

(39:05):
I just did a video the otherday. I'm a customer or first form,
you know, I've I don't haveany part of them. I don't
get paid by them anything. Idon't spend a ton of money on him.
Every couple of months, I'll buysome supplements and they send hand written
notes and it's a huge company.And I'm like, this makes all the
difference. What I wanted to askyou was about analysis, paralysis. Read

(39:28):
this book, listen to this podcastor all this. Somebody who comes in
and wants to be good at sales, is it important that they pull the
trigger, get on the phone andmake mistakes, and specifically the phone.
I'm asking because it's easy to writea text. You know. Again,
I don't know how old you are, but I came from the day where
you had to ask a girl outface to face, and one of the

(39:50):
best things on the planet was therejection because you realized, oh my god,
I survived. You got the adrenalinedump, you went in, you
got rejected, and you're like,I learned from it. Now it's you
send a text and then there's nophrase to face. There's no nonverbal cues,
and you just you don't feel anything. You really don't. So many
people I know, when it comesdown a network marketing, the phone weighs

(40:13):
like a thousand pounds. They can'tpick it up, they can't call,
but they will listen to their favoritepodcaster to listen to your content. They'll
take pages and pages and notes,but they won't do anything. How important
is it to actually act versus learn? And do you actually learn in the
acting process? Great question. MFirst, if you're learning is important,

(40:37):
but you need to translate that learninginto something that you can actually do on
calls. So now I'm thirty eightthirty. Yes, I have a call
strix that I use. I mean, it's really more of an outline,
but it's when you're on a call. You know how it is you're juggling
in your brain. What's like invisibleto the to the prospect is I'm trying

(40:57):
to remember everything I knew about you, Remember all the things I want to
say to you, Listen to whatyou're saying, and now make adjustments to
what I want to say. Also, here the ten videos I recently watched
and put those in here, andthen all of that's happening, you know,
all for me just to go cool, you know so, But when
you have if you can take thecontent that you've learned and turn it into

(41:20):
something you can use on a call, so you can look quick down and
go oh yeah, hey, quickquestion, that is what's going to allow
you to turn that learning into actionthat actually works. Because two often people
look, I do great notes andI'm like, great, you can you
can you do anything on a callor a us going to panic and then
call it like you would otherwise.That's one number two. Yes, you
need to get on the phone.Yes, you need to absolutely talk to

(41:43):
people. There is something human whenyou talk to talk to someone and you
feel the rejection or you feel thenonverbal cues that help you realize where your
mistakes are. Because even the amountof time times as a manager, I've
like rewritten a deck or script fora team or whatever, and I'm like

(42:05):
this is perfect, and then youget in the phone and you're like that
does not work because you're like itjust is a little bit different on the
on the phone. So it's reallyreally important to think action. I can't
agree more. That said, Iwill add one caveat which is you need
to communicate to people how they wantto be communicated with. So if I'm
selling to um gen Z or evenmillennials in my generation, I would prefer

(42:30):
a text. You know, I'vedone plenty of deals with for software companies.
I've bought over text and I'll evensay just just text me man or
send me voice notes because it's somuch easier than like logging in and having
a phone call scheduling time, Likewhy are we doing this? Just text
me where it may be against whatyou want to do because you want to
talk to me, Like we're stillgetting nonverbal cues the same way that we

(42:52):
have historically over the last ten yearsin texting, But yes, you need
to get into phone people. YEAgrowth is uncomfortable. One of my favorite
things is the only person and likechanges a wet baby, and I look
back at when you go back tothe sales type of personality. I know
that I learned through mistakes. Andno, I couldn't show up to a
scene with an eighty something you're oldwoman and say sit down, shut the

(43:15):
fuck up and put your hands behindyour bet. You had to talk the
way that you need to talk tocertain cultures. You have certain personalities that
you can't talk to you. Icouldn't. I've said, there's a million
times you could not walk up toa Hispanic father. One of the time
we worked at was predominantly Hispanic,and you could not walk up to Hispanic

(43:36):
father in front of his family,and you couldn't act tough because that was
disrespect. If you wanted to showthat man, to get that man's conversation
with you, you had to showrespect to him and converse with him and
treat him like an adult. Sowell, in this aspect of it,
that's how I know so many copsare shitty at what they do because there's

(43:57):
that saying when you look like ahammer, when you're a hammer, everything
looks like a nail. And thatgoes back to my earlier question of adopting
styles. I do know that Ihave that, but I got that from
everything I went through in life.I don't know. Is it is it
we're born with a sales personality andwe kind of cultivate as we go,
or can you take an introvert andthey could learn to sell and they could

(44:20):
learn to do what we do.Most people will look at a personality like
yours and they're gravitated in because you'vegot great energy, you're you're extremely confident,
but you're not arrogant about what youdo. So that that's one of
the reasons I like your content isyou're you. You clearly care about the
message you're delivering. Can anybody becomelike this or does it just take certain

(44:40):
types of outgoing personality. I lovethe question, and actually I just posted
about it recently, which is who'sthe best salesperson an introvert or an extrovert?
And the answer is it's quiet extroverts. And through all the sales jumps
that I've ever managed, and Ifind it's people that are comfortable talking and
have a confidence in how they talk, and they have a drive to win

(45:07):
in some capacity. That drive towin maybe to win personally, and it
maybe to win by helping somebody,and it maybe to win to get someone's
approval. But there's some sort ofdrive to win. And I think that
those drives are what makes extroverts alot of times, you know, to
get people to like us, wewant to talk more to get someone to

(45:27):
feel good about themselves. We wantto talk more to get whatever. But
there were the quiet ones because there'sa level of extra version extra version,
and confidence is quiet extra version extraversion and insecurity is loud extra version.
These are people that think, youknow, they're trying to act bigger than
they actually really feel, and soit's inauthentic and they typically don't don't do

(45:52):
well. So I think the rolequestion is to think, am I introverted,
but I'm comfortable talking with the people. I just prefer not to.
Am I extroverted? But am Iactually extroverted? Or am I just sort
of almost almost faking it? Becauseif I'm almost sort of faking it,
or I overdo it, or I'mjust insecure and that's why I've been extroverted,

(46:15):
then you're you're actually gonna do worsebecause if you're insecure and extroverted,
that means that you're you're putting ona lot of sensors out there. Those
sensors being conversations and words, andif people are not responding I like you,
I love you, I gotta haveyou, You're getting a hundred censors
of you're bad, you're bad,you're bad, which makes you more insecure,

(46:36):
which makes you more extroverted and fakeand all that. So it's quite
extroverts that do well. But I'vehad plenty of introverted folks who have done
really well because they're like, theyjust approach it from a different angle of
not I want to win, Iwant to win, it's I want to
really help these people out. LikeI see a problem here, and I'm
like, I gotta I gotta solveit. Like what they're doing, it

(46:57):
doesn't make any sense. They gotto do it this way and then ever
and the wedg's gonna be so muchbetter, And they kind of have this
dissidence between what they're doing what theyshould be doing, and it's uncomfortable,
so they want to talk about it. I've been through every one of those
stages you just addressed. I know. I'm a high functioning introview too.
Yeah. This this second the cameragoes off, I'm quiet. It's like
whenever the camera is on, I'mon. That's it, and I've you're
talking about that. I've been there. It's I want to parallel this.

(47:21):
Does this go into an age factor? Meaning when I was younger, I
used to before I became a cop, I worked in a bar and I
was a bartender. And one ofthe greatest bits of advice I ever got
was from a ranger, an armyranger. He was working with me.
I'm a shorter man. I'm fivefoot seven, and I used to use
self deprecating humor so bad to overcompensatefrom my insecurities. Right taller guys that

(47:44):
you see the big guy at thebar with the hot girl and then you're
starting to think maybe she's just withhim. Is tall all this? And
his name is Maurice. Maurice pulledme aside the end of a night after
shifting, goes, Dude, youare fucking with my income. And I
said, what do you mean.He goes, every time you rip on
yourself, you lessen your value.People don't take you seriously. They're not

(48:05):
going to tip you. We splittips and I went, holy shit.
And he goes, every time youset foot behind this bar, you are
six foot five, leave it alone. That went the other direction. So
now I'm in my early twenties,I got an ego the size of Montana
because I'm behind a bar and I'mcommanding presence and all this. So I
went through all these stages to whereit wasn't until I was in my forties

(48:28):
that everything leveled off and I couldexert exude confidence without being cocky. I
could be loud without being mistaken asbeing angry all the time? Is age
a factor in sales? Ken atwenty one year old jump in the scene
and start shout selling everybody? Orwell his age or age prevent them from

(48:49):
being taken seriously? Or is itan older person's game? So I guess
the question is age maturity and alsogender? Do males or females, which
one's taken seriously, which one's abetter salesperson, or any of these factors
contributing factors. Sure, so umage would matter to like some extent,

(49:10):
just in terms of like being youknow, if a fourteen year old trying
to tell me about how it canmake money, I'm like, you don't
have enough experiences in your life toto dictate that knowledge, right Or if
I have some hundred year old tellingme about how AI's go to work,
I'm like, I feel like Iprobably know more you know, just I
have more experience. I'm closer tothat, right. So, but that's
only on the extremes outside of likethe extremes. No, absolutely not think

(49:34):
where it is where it makes adifference as emotional intelligence. So there's plenty
of people that are in high schoolright now that are way less and secure
and confident and comfortable with themselves thanI am. And I'm way more confident
and comfortable, you know, thanpeople that are seventy you know some right,
So it's really more just the emotionalintelligence, less the actual number outside

(49:57):
of like physical numbers, like theworld the suspic enough times for you to
have the experience of knowing something.As for gender, I really don't see
anything. I've not seen a singlelike I even I've looked at all my
top reps. You know, isit fifty fifty. I don't know if
it's fifty fifty amount of women.But I think that's more of like a
bias and hiring and you know,the bias of the role. But really

(50:21):
not at all. I find thata lot of times it's just a different
approach. So guys will come afterit and you know where I found but
not always. We're very competitive.There's a I think we all have a
lot of guys that was like builtin insecurity around like needing to win,
because like the guys around us areall jocking for position or whatever. But

(50:42):
um, so we come at itfrom a more competitive angle, and I
find that women that that I've managed, they come out of it, come
at sales from a more like practicallevel. They're just like, this is
how it should be. Like.They're very organized. And I've seen plenty
of dudes at steak and plenty ofwomen in this think. So no,
nothing nothing for gender, nothing forage except for the extreams. Yeah.

(51:05):
The one thing I don't like isthe network marketing industry. And I've always
I've said this publicly. It hasa ninety seven percent failure rate and about
ninety plus people. The percentage ofpeople get into it involve as women,
and I don't like the way thatwomen are taught. Women are not taught
their assertive aspect of it. That'sa bias that you know. I really
want to dive into the psychology ofit um the last few minutes. I
want to solve some problems. Firstoff, plug plug everything. How can

(51:28):
people work with you? How canthey follow your content? Um? How
can they wind up connecting with youand supporting you? Yeah, so I'm
everything single thing that I do.I want you to be able to get
a value from immediately on the nextphone call that you have the next email
you write. So if you wantto, if you're if you're a rep
of some kind, you go toa tiny url dot com slash official sales

(51:49):
Templates has everything, scripts, emails, courses, products, everything you could
possibly need. If you're a leaderor a you're looking to become a leader
in the same place tiny your dotcom slash official sales templates. How it's
a manager checklist, VP of salesninety day checklist, everything you could possibly
need to become a good manager.And if you're an owner of a business

(52:09):
or someone who wants to grow outbound, so you want leads and you want
to have a script or a salesprocess that you can duplicate. Um,
I do that for businesses, andfor that you would just go to tiny
year Oil dot com slash official Uhsorry, tiny ye old the com slash
sales Mike the book Time with me. Find me anywhere on social media at

(52:30):
official sales Tips on TikTok. I'mOfficial sales Tips or official Sales leader Tips.
Follow us content. I take notesoff of his content. I have
no problem admitting I follow your stufflike crazy. I mean you you have
to. I seek people who areexperts in their field, and I want
somebody who is far better than Iam because it is competitive. I want

(52:54):
to be better than Mike, youknow, so I gotta follow your stuff
and put it totally. Um.All right, let's also problems in the
last minute. Give me goal,give me one or two things that you
really want to pioneer a change inor make the industry better, or you're
working on or kind of evolving intothe next step. What's the next step
for you and everything? Yeah?So what are the next steps for me?

(53:15):
Is taking all the sales knowledge thatexists, curating it and putting it
into actionable ways so that people canget not just from me taking the Challenger
sale and turning it into a script, but what about all the other sales
leaders out there? What about allthe other sales content? How do I

(53:36):
turn that from books and videos andmethodologies into simple, simple things that people
can have action too. So Iwant to make all the sales content in
the world more accessible and more actionable. That's the biggest thing I'm working on
right now. Well, fantastic.I want to have more conversations in the
future. I really appreciate your timefor this. I'm gonna have to go
back bec and start taking note,especially for leadership. Leadership is a big

(53:57):
one, you know. I justI just I want Sometimes it's like I
want more for other people and it'sI'm like, man, if you had
just X, Y and Z.But even at this stage in the game,
I have a hard time thinking thatif I change my ways, if
I soften up a little bit,uh, if I if I, if
I meet people where they are,you hear that all the time, it's
going to benefit them and me.My biggest problem is is I think that

(54:22):
if I change that it's compensating ornot compensating. It's a compromising and that
compromise will devalue me. And that'sa big psychological problem I have with my
teams and everything. So I'm glad, Well do you know the answer now?
I mean, it's set the expectations. U set hard numbers that make

(54:44):
it really clear what you expect themto do, and use the coaching method
to make sure that they do itwithout without having to be pushing, although
the person's motivated by pushing. Yougott you know you know exactly how to
do it. Oh, Mike,I appreciate your time. M Guys,
make sure you check out Mike Nancyat Official Sales Leader tips Um. Seriously

(55:05):
this I've been waiting for this onefor a while. All Right, we'll
see guys in the next episode ofthe That's One Bulive MLM Network Marketing Warfare.
See you guys later on. ThinkIt Easy.