Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Card King here right come.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, sports fans, sports collectors and all hobbyists. Welcome to
the Carking Sports and Variety Show. I am your host,
the cat Man, Brian Catequit aka the car King. We
are live on ABC's km e T fourteen ninety am
dot com. You're number one spot right here for news
and talk on the West Coast. I thank everyone for
tuning in this morning on a telephone line. I welcome
(00:36):
to the program a former MLB pitcher who played during
the nineteen eighties for the San Diego Padres, Montreal Expos
and the California Angels. I welcome in pitcher Gary Lucas. Gary,
great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh thank you, Brian, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Appreciate it absolutely. And Gary, let's begin nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm reading your career a year which many people may
not realize, but you were first drafted by the Cincinnati
Reds and declined right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I did. The story goes. I graduated from high school
in seventy two, I wasn't drafted, and then I grew
a lot into my body a little bit more. And
back in those days, they had a January draft, and
so the Reds took interest, drafted me number one, and
then retained the rights to draft me again in the
(01:28):
secondary phase of the June seventy three draft. And I
really was struggling with my pitching at my first year
of college. I wasn't really doing that well. I was
throwing really hard back in those days. The scouts that
had worked me out prior to the draft were trying
some things with me to throw harder, and I guess
(01:50):
I showed something to get drafted by the Reds, But
in the end I had a At the end of
junior college, I accepted a scholarship to Chapman Universe City
out in Orange, California, and the Red situation and the
opportunity went by the wayside at that point.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, Gary, you mentioned Chapman University, university in which the
great pitcher was a Randy Jones.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
He went to the same school, right now.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Did you get a correct?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Did you and Randy go to Were you at the
college the same years?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
No? I missed him by about a year.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I started there in seventy four, and I want to
say seventy two or seventy three was Randy's last year.
By then, I think he was already in the big
leagues or in his first year and ended up winning
the Cy Young Award one year with the Padres. Brandy
and I still stay in touch. And then right on
the heels of me being at Chapman University, Tim Flannery,
(02:51):
who was the third base coach for the Giants for
all three of their World championships recently under Bruce Bochie,
Tim was our second baseman. And it was quite a
thing to be involved in, I think, as I remember,
we were the National League trivia question going around the
(03:12):
National League in the early eighties, what three players from
the same university are on the Padres now? And it
was Randy, Tim and myself.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Interesting, I did not know that. That's a quick fun
fact on Gary Lucas. Now, let's talk about when you
signed with the Padres. Walk us through that time in
your life. How did you hear that the Padres were
interested in you?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Take us back to that time.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep, Well it's nineteen seventy six and I had just
finished my senior year at Chapman University. Back then, you
couldn't get drafted until you were twenty one, and I
didn't turn twenty one until pitching in my senior year.
So if you go back to seventy four, after I
left junior college, I get a three year scholarship offered
(04:00):
a Chapman University. Nobody else had even talked to me,
other than maybe cal poly Pomona, as I remember, so
I really didn't have a lot of options. But I
remember the coach from Chapman coming out to see me
pitch in the summer of seventy four, and I don't
think I got anybody out, or very few in about
a two or three inning stint in sam Bardino, California
(04:22):
in the summer League game. And my mother invited the
coach and the pitching coach after they saw me back
to the house and gave them lunch and a cold
drink before they drove back home. And I think that's
probably why I got the scholarship. To be honest with you,
I didn't really show him that much. But I kept
getting better and better the three years I was at Chapman,
(04:43):
and I got to pitch in Alaska two years and
seventy four and seventy five, and the competition was getting
better and better, and I showed flashes of what maybe
I could be and San Diego saw enough. I guess
at my senior year. Even though I thought my junior
year and sophomore year were a little better, I didn't
show that much of my senior year, but I guess
(05:04):
I was one of those tall left handers that had
arms and legs going every which way and showed some potential,
and they drafted me in the nineteenth round. And after
that it took me about two seconds to sign. I
couldn't wait to start my pro career.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, you know, reading the scott the early Scotty reports
on you, Gary, you were well equipped with a sinker
and a slider. So I think that drew a lot
of attention.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
What do you think I.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Would agree with that? And it was a progression of
slow progression. Once again, I showed flashes of those two
pitches being effective. When I was at Chapman. Probably some
of the best instruction I ever got that benefited me
was how to throw strikes, and teaching me how to
throw strikes while I was in youth baseball and they
had college and I had kind of canned the idea
(05:55):
of trying to throw it by everybody and throw hard.
I was trying to figure out my delivery and six
foot five, six foot six now trying to corral that
body in the right direction. And because of all the
innings I got a Chapman University when I am in Alaska.
When I got into pro ball, things started to click.
It's just one of those situations where because of experience,
(06:18):
because of going out there, the thinker and the slider
got a little bit better, and location was a little
bit better, and feel and repeatability to my delivery and
those pitches got a little bit better. So when I
got into pro ball, it felt like I was right
at home. I had the experience, I had the adjustability,
(06:38):
and I started getting a lot of people out and
it carried me for a long time. Those two pitches.
For a long time. I had a change up, but
for the most part, I just had a feel on
how to repeat those pitches and be a lot more effective.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And we're talking with Gary Lucas, a former pitcher of
the Padres and the Expos and the Angels.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
He's with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And you know, Gary, when I look at the first
your first stop in minor league baseball, and I believe
it was Washington, Walla, Walla corret here. Yeah, you pitched
very well. You had a seven to three record, three
point one zero e r A. You're in the trip
in seventy seven to the California League, and I want
to ask you, when you first faced that minor league,
(07:21):
those minor league batters, did you find them challenging?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh, no question, no question. Believe me. When you throw
eighty five miles an hour to eighty seven miles an hour,
somebody told me I might have touched eighty eight one
night when I was with the Expos, But I was
settling in the mid eighties. I was not intimidating as
far as velocity, but both hitters, any hitter was intimidating me. Especially.
(07:48):
It seemed like there were just enough hitters in the
Northwest League where Walla Walla was, and the Cow League
where Reno was, hitters that I had faced before that
knew me, hitters from college, hitters from Alaska. So I
had to be on top of my game because they
really probably had an advantage being being that they had
(08:10):
faced me before. And you know, many times you couldn't
show them the same things that you got them out before.
They were going to make adjustments, and then it was
up to me making adjustments. And that was basically my
whole career, I had to pay attention to all hitters
and what they were trying to do against me, and
try and key on some of those things. So those
hitters right away reminded me that they're just going to
(08:33):
get better and better, and I'm going to have to
get better and better.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, so you know that was seventy seven, Walla, Walla
did seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I believe you played for Amarillo. Now, was that the
team that had Paul O'Neill.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
There was a Paul O'Neill, but was it not the
same paul O'Neil. I think I'm not the ex Red
and Yankee that I believe you're thinking of.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, because I'm looking met the line up here and
it had paul O'Neil. It wasn't the Yankee paul O'Neil.
But at seventeen we had to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Seventy eight it was Amarillo there.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know, you got promoted to Amarillo, and I'm assuming
there it became more challenging for you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
No question, Reno. In the California League, the ball jumped.
It was a challenge. Even though I put some numbers up,
it was I had a tough time keeping the ball
in the ballpark. I gave up a lot of home runs,
but I showed enough, I guess, to have a chance
to pitch an Amarillo. As I remember spring training, trying
to make that Amarillo team is what did it for me.
(09:40):
And my manager, Glenny Zelle, liked what he saw and
he had me in Reno the year before and he
was moving up to Amarillo, so he gave me an
opportunity to be on that team. And even though I
lost eighteen games, I threw about one hundred and fifty
to one hundred and seventy five innings, which was quite
a bit for minor legs. And I was coming off
(10:02):
that many innings in Reno, so once again I was
getting a lot of experience a lot of innings, and
the record didn't reflect it, but I thought I was
getting better against better hitters in a very very difficult
league hitters league in the Texas League, and shoot, you
played in Amarillo and some of the short parks in
El Paso, check swings were going out of the ballpark,
(10:23):
So you better learn to keep the ball down and
you know, be on top of your game in that league,
that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and you know, again, I'm going through some of
these minor league stats and I'm showing nineteen seventy nine
is where you really found yourself. You were pitching for Hawaii.
I'm gathering a more normalized environment. Your numbers improved tremendously.
Twenty four starts, in twenty four starts, one hundred and
seventy eight innings, you had about a two point seven
eight e r A well, just giving up fifteen home runs.
(10:54):
So I guess that's where the Padres really saw, you know, Cantioning.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You, no question, Brian, You're right right on point there.
I turned a corner again and once again spring training
of seventy nine, as I remember, I got a lot
of people out. It seemed like I was in a
groove right in the beginnings. I knew I had to
step up because there was a chance. With the record
I had in seventy eight, I was going back to Amarillo.
(11:22):
I'm a nineteenth round pick, and I remember the scout
that signed me said, you better go up the walla
wall and start getting everybody out. You know, that's what
nineteen round pick have to do. You know, they've got
to get people out and get on the radar, So
I kept pushing myself to not take anything for granted.
And I got a lot of outs, like I said
in seventy nine, and Hawaii was very good to me
(11:43):
as far as being able to make pitches over and
over and take advantage of my defense. I got a
lot of ground ball outs, a lot of double playouts.
It was a successful season leading up until the end
of the season. I was ten or eleven and six
seven something like that going into August, and I think
(12:06):
the first week of August I got an injury to
my risk broke my wrist on a collision at first
base actually, and was done for the year. So that
was my season. I had heard at the end of
the season that I had pitched well enough to be
a potential September call up. Never knew if that was
going to materialize. They were talking about winter ball. I
should go play winter ball. So a lot of things
(12:28):
starting to happen once again. It was just because things
were starting to fall into place. I was making pitches
and getting outs and you know, kind of developing a
feel for having some adjustability and learning who I was
as a pitcher. Twenty four there.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, looking at your minor league
stats before we leave the minor leagues and we get
into the padres.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I mean overall, if I'm correct, you averaged.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
About twenty eight wins total in your minor league years
with eight shutouts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I mean, I would say that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, yeah, and that was back in the day when
you were supposed to start a game with the idea
that you're going to finish it. So you had a
ten man staff, maybe eleven, and it was four or
five starters, and you ran, and you ran some more,
and then when you thought you had ran enough, you
ran even more. It was all about keeping your legs
(13:25):
in shape so that you could go far and your
legs would support your pitching delivery. And I just thought
that was an era that there were a lot of
guys that were starters that expected to show up late
in the game and pitch a whole game. So I
went as hard as I could, as long as I could,
and I wasn't a power pitcher, so I think I
(13:47):
got the benefits of pitching to contact and getting a
lot of ground balls getting out of it. That's quick,
and you know, that's that's kind of how it was
through the minor legs, developing a feel for who I was,
what my pitches would do, what hitters did against my pitches,
and you know, when you throw as many nies as
I did in the minor leagues as a starter, I
(14:09):
felt confident once I got to the big leagues to
be able to just keep doing what I've been doing,
and the hitters would tell me if I needed to change.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And we're talking with Gary Lucas, a former pitcher major
league pitcher Padres exposed Angels is with us and Gary.
So now your call to the San Diego Padres, I
believe it came out of spring training. Nineteen eighty was
the season. How did you get that call? Now, Jerry Cale?
If I'm not mistaken, Jerry cole Me was the Padres manager, right.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
How did you get there?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Jerry was in the first year manager. Once again, I
had to show something in spring training that one I
could overcome the army in injury, I mean the wrist
injury that I had at the end of nineteen seventy nine.
I had to show him that I was healthy, that
I could pitch, and everything fell into place as far
(15:10):
as getting a lot of hitters out. I pitched enough
innings in key games and key spots that I broke
camp with them, as I believe the only rookie to
make the club. There might have been one other in there,
but I was told by Jerry Coleman that I'd probably
be the fifth starter. They wouldn't need a fifth starter
right away. But once I was told I made the club,
(15:33):
I was excited, as you can imagine. And I was
joining a veteran team that was loaded with veteran players
on the Padres, and that was probably the highlight of
my career, all the players I played with and against.
But I was able to break in with the Padres
after Jerry told me I was on the club and
(15:55):
started out as a starter that first year before I
became a full time relief at the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, and you know, you originally were a starting pitcher
converted to a relief pitcher.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now, why did they convert you? Did that? Ever? Nag
you did that, ever bother.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You that you became a relief pitcher or you were
just happy to, you know, pitch for the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I think you're right on both cases, Brian. I was
a little bit surprised at the end of the season
when that happened the last two months of nineteen eighty.
But at the same point, I was happy to be
a major league pitcher. I gained a little bit of
confidence as a starter. Now, my stats as a starter
(16:38):
didn't merit me staying in the rotation, but you can
make a case for I hadn't fallen on my face either.
I got some outs, I put up some numbers, and
I think they saw that maybe I could throw every day.
I remember the pitching coach at the time, Chuck a Strata,
(16:59):
and it was pretty high on me being able to
be a relief pitcher, and he said, let's just try this.
Raley Fingers was going to be a free agent after
the nineteen eighty season, and for whatever reason, they gave
me everything in short relief as a left hander to
compliment him that he wasn't getting to close games at
the end of the eighty season, so when he needed
(17:21):
a rest or, they wanted a left hander. I got
some key situations. At the end of the nineteen eighty season,
we were out of the hunt for any playoff position.
But I guess I showed a little bit as far
as the arm being resilient and being able to be effective.
And I never started another game. There was never any
mention of starting, and I never smoke up asking to
(17:43):
go back. I liked the idea of reliefing. I didn't
know anything about it, but I did learn real quick
that coming to the ballpark thinking I'd have a chance
to be a part of the team and being in
the game every day was really really, really fun and
really excited and it was a different way to prepare
and something I never thought of before. But it suited
(18:06):
me no doubt as I went on, and.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know, you know, for me, I think it was
the right move because you set some records here with
the Padres organization and also the Expos and I'll read
a few of those.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
In eighty one, you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Were ranked fifth and National League saves eighty two or
eighty three. You held a record for a Padres left
handed pitcher for most saves thirty nine saves in nineteen
eighty two. By nineteen eighty three, you were ranked top
eleven pitchers in the National League and saves I mean
nineteen eighty five. As an Expo player, you ranked third
in appearances, you know, for Montreal, despite having that lower
(18:45):
back injury. So I you know, it was a brilliant move.
I think, making you a relief pitcher.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well, like I said, I think the Padres saw me
as a guy that wasn't gonna blow in body away.
But I was going to be around the plate more
times than not. My control got me to the big leagues.
My control kept me there for the most part. So
I didn't beat myself. They certainly beat me. If you
(19:14):
can look at the one loss record in eighty two,
it was a roller coaster year between saves and blown
saves and losses that I took. I just seemed to
be up and down, up and down. But you know
it was two good games and two bad games. But
you know I was gaining knowledge as a picture and
once again and having to stay on top of who
(19:37):
I was facing. And I just compiled some stats there
that that helped the ball club out a little bit.
They kept using me over and over, no matter how
many failures I might have had, I was going back
out there, and that gave me a lot of confidence.
I knew if I blew a game or two, they
were still going to give me an opportunity. You know,
(19:58):
I had Frank Howard my manager in eighty one, and
then Dick Williams and eighty two and eighty three, and
my head goes off to all three of them because
they kept using it. They just kept running me out there,
and I was able to find out about myself and
make adjustments, and I was wind up delivery guy as
a starter and then in the stretch with people on base,
(20:19):
and eventually I made an adjustment to go to the stretch,
and you know, I was able to get some confidence
doing that. So there were adjustments along the way all
the way, and by the time I got to Montreal,
I wasn't asked to close games that much anymore. You
had a top not reliefer and Jeff Reardon there in
eighty four and eighty five, so he was established, and
(20:41):
I was the left handed set up guy for him.
And then by the time I got to the Angels,
I was used to doing that. And Donny Moore was
the closer in California and fully established, so I knew
I was sliding in ahead of him coming in to
close the game. So there were adjustments along the way,
but certainly the Andres giving me all those opportunities those
(21:04):
year two, three and four In the big leagues as
a reliefer. Gave me a lot of confidence and experience.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, and even you catcher with Gene Tennis, didn't he
make a comment that you were a left handed Raleigh Fingers.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Was that the quote he said?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yes, Gene said that, I'm not so sure if somebody,
if he lost a bet or something like that to
say that, because I sure didn't have Raley Fingers stuff
or anything. But you know, it doesn't hurt to have
somebody that's a world very champion three times, like Gene
Tennis with the Oakland A's back in the seventies to
say that about you. But I mean he's making a
(21:42):
comment about a left handed reliefer that only had appeared
in about half a dozen maybe a dozen games, you know,
as a closer, and comparing me to a future Hall
of Famer Rolly Fingers. So I think Gene fooled him
with that comment there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I have a few minutes left. Let's talk about
somebody you've former teammates. So Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, you
were on the padres with both of him, how would
they ask gamates?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
They were great. Dave Winfield was always seem to be easy,
easy to talk to. I remember conversation in the clubhouse dugout.
I mean, like I said, when I broke in, it
was a veteran team in nineteen eighty and Ozzie Smith
was established. I knew Ozzy from playing against him in college,
so that was easy. And my gosh, when he's behind
(22:30):
you at shortstop, you let everything go up the middle
because he's going to field and throw people out. But
it was a ton of veteran players that took the
little extra time to explain this or give you a
comment about this, or something positive that you remembered. And
those two that you mentioned were key. They were two
(22:52):
of the nine Hall of famers that I played with
in my career. That was a big plus, a big highlight,
I thought. Tony gwyn break in with the Padres, Terry
Kennedy and Tim Flannery were some of the best teammates
you'd ever want to be around. I know I'm leaving
some out, but yeah, the people I been Garvey again,
Steve my last year there. Steve Garvey came from the
(23:16):
Dodgers as a free agent and signed with us in
eighty three. Yeah, like I said, I'm leaving some people out,
but it was it was a big deal to break
in with that veteran club, and certainly Rally Fingers and
Ozzie made it easier for me, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Now Gary Carter at Montreal, he obviously.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Caught you right, that's right. Eighty four eighty four.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
How is Gary Carter as a teammate, as a player,
as your catcher?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
He was great. I knew Gary from both of us
growing up in Southern California and when he was first
signed by the expos of playing in the Scouts League
out in Southern California, and I got to know him
on the same team with the Expo Scout League, So
it was easy. And he was a lot of fun
in the clubhouse, a lot of fun on the bench.
He was a cheerleader even when he wasn't coming up
(24:10):
the boat pulling for the other guys on the team.
You know, you couldn't throw it. You couldn't have pitched
to a better catcher as far as his skills and
his talent, And that was one of the highlights. I
threw to some really good catchers, from Terry Kennedy to
Gary Carter, to Mike Fitzgerald to Bob Boone out in California,
So Gary Carter was right in the mix with all
(24:30):
of them, great teammates.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Now a couple of more Gary before I let you
before we have to say goodbye. Now, your transition to
California to the Angels, were you shocked that you were
heading west coast.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
In a pleasant way? I mean, I'm playing in Montreal
and that's a long way from southern California. We had
a pretty good in San Diego for a while, and
then you get traded to Montreal. You get a phone
call from Jack McKeon one morning and you're going to
Montreal for two years. And we didn't know how long
we were going to stay there. We signed a long
term contract, but in the middle of that, got traded
(25:08):
to the Angels and I was back even closer to
home where I grew up. So very excited about that.
And you know, my career had some ups and downs,
and I certainly had a low point. You know, when
I hit Rech Gedman my second my end of my
first year in the American League Championship Series, with a
chance to go to the World Series. I hit Gedman
(25:30):
with a pitch with a chance to put us in
the series. So that was a low point. But like
I said, I played with nine Hall of Famers and
I got eight years in for a guy that was
barely touching eighty seven miles an hour. So I mean
I rode the roller coaster my whole career and it
was a lot of fun though playing close to home
in California for two years, for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
That's right. It's on my mind now that you were
part of that infamous eighty six alcs, right, Angels and
Red Sox.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah, in a great game, one of the greatest playoff
games ever. Yes, I was part of that, And.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Okay, I have one minute. What do you remember most
about that game? I missed that game?
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Well, eighty six A try and be short here. I
was out the first first half of the season with
a back injury, and then I'd come back healthy after
the All Star break and pitch real well. And we're
one out away from going to the World Series. If
I get Gedman out, we're in the series. Mike Witt
(26:33):
had pitched great, all of the Angels had played very
well in that series. We beat them the night before
I struck out Rich Gedman, and there's no reason to
feel nervous or anything other than visit Bat takes us
to the World Series and perhaps the situation was too
big for me. Who knows that I didn't come through
for us. And next thing you know, we're an extra
(26:57):
innings and they up beating us in extra innings and
they go to the World Series instead of us, well deserved.
They came from behind and beat us real convincingly in
Boston in game six and seven. We faced Roger Clements
in Game seven and it was lights out for the Angels.
(27:17):
But I got my opportunity, didn't make the most of it,
but no regrets. Good career, better than I anticipated.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Gary, Thanks so much for your time. Great job this morning.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Thanks for having me, Brian, Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Gary Lucas former pitcher Padres Exposed Angels until next week.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Happy collecting to all
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It conspic
Card King here right come.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, sports fans, sports collectors and all hobbyists. Welcome to
the Carking Sports and Variety Show. I am your host,
the cat Man, Brian Catequit aka the car King. We
are live on ABC's km e T fourteen ninety am
dot com. You're number one spot right here for news
and talk on the West Coast. I thank everyone for
tuning in this morning on a telephone line. I welcome
(00:36):
to the program a former MLB pitcher who played during
the nineteen eighties for the San Diego Padres, Montreal Expos
and the California Angels. I welcome in pitcher Gary Lucas. Gary,
great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Oh thank you, Brian, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Appreciate it absolutely. And Gary, let's begin nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm reading your career a year which many people may
not realize, but you were first drafted by the Cincinnati
Reds and declined right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
I did. The story goes. I graduated from high school
in seventy two, I wasn't drafted, and then I grew
a lot into my body a little bit more. And
back in those days, they had a January draft, and
so the Reds took interest, drafted me number one, and
then retained the rights to draft me again in the
(01:28):
secondary phase of the June seventy three draft. And I
really was struggling with my pitching at my first year
of college. I wasn't really doing that well. I was
throwing really hard back in those days. The scouts that
had worked me out prior to the draft were trying
some things with me to throw harder, and I guess
(01:50):
I showed something to get drafted by the Reds, But
in the end I had a At the end of
junior college, I accepted a scholarship to Chapman Universe City
out in Orange, California, and the Red situation and the
opportunity went by the wayside at that point.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Hey, Gary, you mentioned Chapman University, university in which the
great pitcher was a Randy Jones.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
He went to the same school, right now.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Did you get a correct?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Did you and Randy go to Were you at the
college the same years?
Speaker 3 (02:25):
No? I missed him by about a year.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Now.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I started there in seventy four, and I want to
say seventy two or seventy three was Randy's last year.
By then, I think he was already in the big
leagues or in his first year and ended up winning
the Cy Young Award one year with the Padres. Brandy
and I still stay in touch. And then right on
the heels of me being at Chapman University, Tim Flannery,
(02:51):
who was the third base coach for the Giants for
all three of their World championships recently under Bruce Bochie,
Tim was our second baseman. And it was quite a
thing to be involved in, I think, as I remember,
we were the National League trivia question going around the
(03:12):
National League in the early eighties, what three players from
the same university are on the Padres now? And it
was Randy, Tim and myself.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Interesting, I did not know that. That's a quick fun
fact on Gary Lucas. Now, let's talk about when you
signed with the Padres. Walk us through that time in
your life. How did you hear that the Padres were
interested in you?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Take us back to that time.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yep, Well it's nineteen seventy six and I had just
finished my senior year at Chapman University. Back then, you
couldn't get drafted until you were twenty one, and I
didn't turn twenty one until pitching in my senior year.
So if you go back to seventy four, after I
left junior college, I get a three year scholarship offered
(04:00):
a Chapman University. Nobody else had even talked to me,
other than maybe cal poly Pomona, as I remember, so
I really didn't have a lot of options. But I
remember the coach from Chapman coming out to see me
pitch in the summer of seventy four, and I don't
think I got anybody out, or very few in about
a two or three inning stint in sam Bardino, California
(04:22):
in the summer League game. And my mother invited the
coach and the pitching coach after they saw me back
to the house and gave them lunch and a cold
drink before they drove back home. And I think that's
probably why I got the scholarship. To be honest with you,
I didn't really show him that much. But I kept
getting better and better the three years I was at Chapman,
(04:43):
and I got to pitch in Alaska two years and
seventy four and seventy five, and the competition was getting
better and better, and I showed flashes of what maybe
I could be and San Diego saw enough. I guess
at my senior year. Even though I thought my junior
year and sophomore year were a little better, I didn't
show that much of my senior year, but I guess
(05:04):
I was one of those tall left handers that had
arms and legs going every which way and showed some potential,
and they drafted me in the nineteenth round. And after
that it took me about two seconds to sign. I
couldn't wait to start my pro career.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, you know, reading the scott the early Scotty reports
on you, Gary, you were well equipped with a sinker
and a slider. So I think that drew a lot
of attention.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
What do you think I.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Would agree with that? And it was a progression of
slow progression. Once again, I showed flashes of those two
pitches being effective. When I was at Chapman. Probably some
of the best instruction I ever got that benefited me
was how to throw strikes, and teaching me how to
throw strikes while I was in youth baseball and they
had college and I had kind of canned the idea
(05:55):
of trying to throw it by everybody and throw hard.
I was trying to figure out my delivery and six
foot five, six foot six now trying to corral that
body in the right direction. And because of all the
innings I got a Chapman University when I am in Alaska.
When I got into pro ball, things started to click.
It's just one of those situations where because of experience,
(06:18):
because of going out there, the thinker and the slider
got a little bit better, and location was a little
bit better, and feel and repeatability to my delivery and
those pitches got a little bit better. So when I
got into pro ball, it felt like I was right
at home. I had the experience, I had the adjustability,
(06:38):
and I started getting a lot of people out and
it carried me for a long time. Those two pitches.
For a long time. I had a change up, but
for the most part, I just had a feel on
how to repeat those pitches and be a lot more effective.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
And we're talking with Gary Lucas, a former pitcher of
the Padres and the Expos and the Angels.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
He's with us this morning.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And you know, Gary, when I look at the first
your first stop in minor league baseball, and I believe
it was Washington, Walla, Walla corret here. Yeah, you pitched
very well. You had a seven to three record, three
point one zero e r A. You're in the trip
in seventy seven to the California League, and I want
to ask you, when you first faced that minor league,
(07:21):
those minor league batters, did you find them challenging?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh, no question, no question. Believe me. When you throw
eighty five miles an hour to eighty seven miles an hour,
somebody told me I might have touched eighty eight one
night when I was with the Expos, But I was
settling in the mid eighties. I was not intimidating as
far as velocity, but both hitters, any hitter was intimidating me. Especially.
(07:48):
It seemed like there were just enough hitters in the
Northwest League where Walla Walla was, and the Cow League
where Reno was, hitters that I had faced before that
knew me, hitters from college, hitters from Alaska. So I
had to be on top of my game because they
really probably had an advantage being being that they had
(08:10):
faced me before. And you know, many times you couldn't
show them the same things that you got them out before.
They were going to make adjustments, and then it was
up to me making adjustments. And that was basically my
whole career, I had to pay attention to all hitters
and what they were trying to do against me, and
try and key on some of those things. So those
hitters right away reminded me that they're just going to
(08:33):
get better and better, and I'm going to have to
get better and better.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, so you know that was seventy seven, Walla, Walla
did seventy eight.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I believe you played for Amarillo. Now, was that the
team that had Paul O'Neill.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
There was a Paul O'Neill, but was it not the
same paul O'Neil. I think I'm not the ex Red
and Yankee that I believe you're thinking of.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Okay, because I'm looking met the line up here and
it had paul O'Neil. It wasn't the Yankee paul O'Neil.
But at seventeen we had to go ahead.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Seventy eight it was Amarillo there.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You know, you got promoted to Amarillo, and I'm assuming
there it became more challenging for you.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
No question, Reno. In the California League, the ball jumped.
It was a challenge. Even though I put some numbers up,
it was I had a tough time keeping the ball
in the ballpark. I gave up a lot of home runs,
but I showed enough, I guess, to have a chance
to pitch an Amarillo. As I remember spring training, trying
to make that Amarillo team is what did it for me.
(09:40):
And my manager, Glenny Zelle, liked what he saw and
he had me in Reno the year before and he
was moving up to Amarillo, so he gave me an
opportunity to be on that team. And even though I
lost eighteen games, I threw about one hundred and fifty
to one hundred and seventy five innings, which was quite
a bit for minor legs. And I was coming off
(10:02):
that many innings in Reno, so once again I was
getting a lot of experience a lot of innings, and
the record didn't reflect it, but I thought I was
getting better against better hitters in a very very difficult
league hitters league in the Texas League, and shoot, you
played in Amarillo and some of the short parks in
El Paso, check swings were going out of the ballpark,
(10:23):
So you better learn to keep the ball down and
you know, be on top of your game in that league,
that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, and you know, again, I'm going through some of
these minor league stats and I'm showing nineteen seventy nine
is where you really found yourself. You were pitching for Hawaii.
I'm gathering a more normalized environment. Your numbers improved tremendously.
Twenty four starts, in twenty four starts, one hundred and
seventy eight innings, you had about a two point seven
eight e r A well, just giving up fifteen home runs.
(10:54):
So I guess that's where the Padres really saw, you know, Cantioning.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
You, no question, Brian, You're right right on point there.
I turned a corner again and once again spring training
of seventy nine, as I remember, I got a lot
of people out. It seemed like I was in a
groove right in the beginnings. I knew I had to
step up because there was a chance. With the record
I had in seventy eight, I was going back to Amarillo.
(11:22):
I'm a nineteenth round pick, and I remember the scout
that signed me said, you better go up the walla
wall and start getting everybody out. You know, that's what
nineteen round pick have to do. You know, they've got
to get people out and get on the radar, So
I kept pushing myself to not take anything for granted.
And I got a lot of outs, like I said
in seventy nine, and Hawaii was very good to me
(11:43):
as far as being able to make pitches over and
over and take advantage of my defense. I got a
lot of ground ball outs, a lot of double playouts.
It was a successful season leading up until the end
of the season. I was ten or eleven and six
seven something like that going into August, and I think
(12:06):
the first week of August I got an injury to
my risk broke my wrist on a collision at first
base actually, and was done for the year. So that
was my season. I had heard at the end of
the season that I had pitched well enough to be
a potential September call up. Never knew if that was
going to materialize. They were talking about winter ball. I
should go play winter ball. So a lot of things
(12:28):
starting to happen once again. It was just because things
were starting to fall into place. I was making pitches
and getting outs and you know, kind of developing a
feel for having some adjustability and learning who I was
as a pitcher. Twenty four there.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, looking at your minor league
stats before we leave the minor leagues and we get
into the padres.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
I mean overall, if I'm correct, you averaged.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
About twenty eight wins total in your minor league years
with eight shutouts.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I mean, I would say that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Well, yeah, and that was back in the day when
you were supposed to start a game with the idea
that you're going to finish it. So you had a
ten man staff, maybe eleven, and it was four or
five starters, and you ran, and you ran some more,
and then when you thought you had ran enough, you
ran even more. It was all about keeping your legs
(13:25):
in shape so that you could go far and your
legs would support your pitching delivery. And I just thought
that was an era that there were a lot of
guys that were starters that expected to show up late
in the game and pitch a whole game. So I
went as hard as I could, as long as I could,
and I wasn't a power pitcher, so I think I
(13:47):
got the benefits of pitching to contact and getting a
lot of ground balls getting out of it. That's quick,
and you know, that's that's kind of how it was
through the minor legs, developing a feel for who I was,
what my pitches would do, what hitters did against my pitches,
and you know, when you throw as many nies as
I did in the minor leagues as a starter, I
(14:09):
felt confident once I got to the big leagues to
be able to just keep doing what I've been doing,
and the hitters would tell me if I needed to change.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And we're talking with Gary Lucas, a former pitcher major
league pitcher Padres exposed Angels is with us and Gary.
So now your call to the San Diego Padres, I
believe it came out of spring training. Nineteen eighty was
the season. How did you get that call? Now, Jerry Cale?
If I'm not mistaken, Jerry cole Me was the Padres manager, right.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
How did you get there?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Jerry was in the first year manager. Once again, I
had to show something in spring training that one I
could overcome the army in injury, I mean the wrist
injury that I had at the end of nineteen seventy nine.
I had to show him that I was healthy, that
I could pitch, and everything fell into place as far
(15:10):
as getting a lot of hitters out. I pitched enough
innings in key games and key spots that I broke
camp with them, as I believe the only rookie to
make the club. There might have been one other in there,
but I was told by Jerry Coleman that I'd probably
be the fifth starter. They wouldn't need a fifth starter
right away. But once I was told I made the club,
(15:33):
I was excited, as you can imagine. And I was
joining a veteran team that was loaded with veteran players
on the Padres, and that was probably the highlight of
my career, all the players I played with and against.
But I was able to break in with the Padres
after Jerry told me I was on the club and
(15:55):
started out as a starter that first year before I
became a full time relief at the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah, and you know, you originally were a starting pitcher
converted to a relief pitcher.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now, why did they convert you? Did that? Ever? Nag
you did that, ever bother.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
You that you became a relief pitcher or you were
just happy to, you know, pitch for the major leagues.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I think you're right on both cases, Brian. I was
a little bit surprised at the end of the season
when that happened the last two months of nineteen eighty.
But at the same point, I was happy to be
a major league pitcher. I gained a little bit of
confidence as a starter. Now, my stats as a starter
(16:38):
didn't merit me staying in the rotation, but you can
make a case for I hadn't fallen on my face either.
I got some outs, I put up some numbers, and
I think they saw that maybe I could throw every day.
I remember the pitching coach at the time, Chuck a Strata,
(16:59):
and it was pretty high on me being able to
be a relief pitcher, and he said, let's just try this.
Raley Fingers was going to be a free agent after
the nineteen eighty season, and for whatever reason, they gave
me everything in short relief as a left hander to
compliment him that he wasn't getting to close games at
the end of the eighty season, so when he needed
(17:21):
a rest or, they wanted a left hander. I got
some key situations. At the end of the nineteen eighty season,
we were out of the hunt for any playoff position.
But I guess I showed a little bit as far
as the arm being resilient and being able to be effective.
And I never started another game. There was never any
mention of starting, and I never smoke up asking to
(17:43):
go back. I liked the idea of reliefing. I didn't
know anything about it, but I did learn real quick
that coming to the ballpark thinking I'd have a chance
to be a part of the team and being in
the game every day was really really, really fun and
really excited and it was a different way to prepare
and something I never thought of before. But it suited
(18:06):
me no doubt as I went on, and.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know, you know, for me, I think it was
the right move because you set some records here with
the Padres organization and also the Expos and I'll read
a few of those.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
In eighty one, you.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Were ranked fifth and National League saves eighty two or
eighty three. You held a record for a Padres left
handed pitcher for most saves thirty nine saves in nineteen
eighty two. By nineteen eighty three, you were ranked top
eleven pitchers in the National League and saves I mean
nineteen eighty five. As an Expo player, you ranked third
in appearances, you know, for Montreal, despite having that lower
(18:45):
back injury. So I you know, it was a brilliant move.
I think, making you a relief pitcher.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well, like I said, I think the Padres saw me
as a guy that wasn't gonna blow in body away.
But I was going to be around the plate more
times than not. My control got me to the big leagues.
My control kept me there for the most part. So
I didn't beat myself. They certainly beat me. If you
(19:14):
can look at the one loss record in eighty two,
it was a roller coaster year between saves and blown
saves and losses that I took. I just seemed to
be up and down, up and down. But you know
it was two good games and two bad games. But
you know I was gaining knowledge as a picture and
once again and having to stay on top of who
(19:37):
I was facing. And I just compiled some stats there
that that helped the ball club out a little bit.
They kept using me over and over, no matter how
many failures I might have had, I was going back
out there, and that gave me a lot of confidence.
I knew if I blew a game or two, they
were still going to give me an opportunity. You know,
(19:58):
I had Frank Howard my manager in eighty one, and
then Dick Williams and eighty two and eighty three, and
my head goes off to all three of them because
they kept using it. They just kept running me out there,
and I was able to find out about myself and
make adjustments, and I was wind up delivery guy as
a starter and then in the stretch with people on base,
(20:19):
and eventually I made an adjustment to go to the stretch,
and you know, I was able to get some confidence
doing that. So there were adjustments along the way all
the way, and by the time I got to Montreal,
I wasn't asked to close games that much anymore. You
had a top not reliefer and Jeff Reardon there in
eighty four and eighty five, so he was established, and
(20:41):
I was the left handed set up guy for him.
And then by the time I got to the Angels,
I was used to doing that. And Donny Moore was
the closer in California and fully established, so I knew
I was sliding in ahead of him coming in to
close the game. So there were adjustments along the way,
but certainly the Andres giving me all those opportunities those
(21:04):
year two, three and four In the big leagues as
a reliefer. Gave me a lot of confidence and experience.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, and even you catcher with Gene Tennis, didn't he
make a comment that you were a left handed Raleigh Fingers.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Was that the quote he said?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yes, Gene said that, I'm not so sure if somebody,
if he lost a bet or something like that to
say that, because I sure didn't have Raley Fingers stuff
or anything. But you know, it doesn't hurt to have
somebody that's a world very champion three times, like Gene
Tennis with the Oakland A's back in the seventies to
say that about you. But I mean he's making a
(21:42):
comment about a left handed reliefer that only had appeared
in about half a dozen maybe a dozen games, you know,
as a closer, and comparing me to a future Hall
of Famer Rolly Fingers. So I think Gene fooled him
with that comment there.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I have a few minutes left. Let's talk about
somebody you've former teammates. So Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, you
were on the padres with both of him, how would
they ask gamates?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
They were great. Dave Winfield was always seem to be easy,
easy to talk to. I remember conversation in the clubhouse dugout.
I mean, like I said, when I broke in, it
was a veteran team in nineteen eighty and Ozzie Smith
was established. I knew Ozzy from playing against him in college,
so that was easy. And my gosh, when he's behind
(22:30):
you at shortstop, you let everything go up the middle
because he's going to field and throw people out. But
it was a ton of veteran players that took the
little extra time to explain this or give you a
comment about this, or something positive that you remembered. And
those two that you mentioned were key. They were two
(22:52):
of the nine Hall of famers that I played with
in my career. That was a big plus, a big highlight,
I thought. Tony gwyn break in with the Padres, Terry
Kennedy and Tim Flannery were some of the best teammates
you'd ever want to be around. I know I'm leaving
some out, but yeah, the people I been Garvey again,
Steve my last year there. Steve Garvey came from the
(23:16):
Dodgers as a free agent and signed with us in
eighty three. Yeah, like I said, I'm leaving some people out,
but it was it was a big deal to break
in with that veteran club, and certainly Rally Fingers and
Ozzie made it easier for me, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Now Gary Carter at Montreal, he obviously.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Caught you right, that's right. Eighty four eighty four.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
How is Gary Carter as a teammate, as a player,
as your catcher?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
He was great. I knew Gary from both of us
growing up in Southern California and when he was first
signed by the expos of playing in the Scouts League
out in Southern California, and I got to know him
on the same team with the Expo Scout League, So
it was easy. And he was a lot of fun
in the clubhouse, a lot of fun on the bench.
He was a cheerleader even when he wasn't coming up
(24:10):
the boat pulling for the other guys on the team.
You know, you couldn't throw it. You couldn't have pitched
to a better catcher as far as his skills and
his talent, And that was one of the highlights. I
threw to some really good catchers, from Terry Kennedy to
Gary Carter, to Mike Fitzgerald to Bob Boone out in California,
So Gary Carter was right in the mix with all
(24:30):
of them, great teammates.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Now a couple of more Gary before I let you
before we have to say goodbye. Now, your transition to
California to the Angels, were you shocked that you were
heading west coast.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
In a pleasant way? I mean, I'm playing in Montreal
and that's a long way from southern California. We had
a pretty good in San Diego for a while, and
then you get traded to Montreal. You get a phone
call from Jack McKeon one morning and you're going to
Montreal for two years. And we didn't know how long
we were going to stay there. We signed a long
term contract, but in the middle of that, got traded
(25:08):
to the Angels and I was back even closer to
home where I grew up. So very excited about that.
And you know, my career had some ups and downs,
and I certainly had a low point. You know, when
I hit Rech Gedman my second my end of my
first year in the American League Championship Series, with a
chance to go to the World Series. I hit Gedman
(25:30):
with a pitch with a chance to put us in
the series. So that was a low point. But like
I said, I played with nine Hall of Famers and
I got eight years in for a guy that was
barely touching eighty seven miles an hour. So I mean
I rode the roller coaster my whole career and it
was a lot of fun though playing close to home
in California for two years, for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
That's right. It's on my mind now that you were
part of that infamous eighty six alcs, right, Angels and
Red Sox.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah, in a great game, one of the greatest playoff
games ever. Yes, I was part of that, And.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Okay, I have one minute. What do you remember most
about that game? I missed that game?
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Well, eighty six A try and be short here. I
was out the first first half of the season with
a back injury, and then I'd come back healthy after
the All Star break and pitch real well. And we're
one out away from going to the World Series. If
I get Gedman out, we're in the series. Mike Witt
(26:33):
had pitched great, all of the Angels had played very
well in that series. We beat them the night before
I struck out Rich Gedman, and there's no reason to
feel nervous or anything other than visit Bat takes us
to the World Series and perhaps the situation was too
big for me. Who knows that I didn't come through
for us. And next thing you know, we're an extra
(26:57):
innings and they up beating us in extra innings and
they go to the World Series instead of us, well deserved.
They came from behind and beat us real convincingly in
Boston in game six and seven. We faced Roger Clements
in Game seven and it was lights out for the Angels.
(27:17):
But I got my opportunity, didn't make the most of it,
but no regrets. Good career, better than I anticipated.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Gary, Thanks so much for your time. Great job this morning.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Thanks for having me, Brian, Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Gary Lucas former pitcher Padres Exposed Angels until next week.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Happy collecting to all
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It conspic
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.