November 7, 2024 • 46 mins
'The coaches' guest is Owensboro coach Jay Fallin. Plus the tough topic, upsets of the week and. a Forgotten Hero.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Coach David Buchanan coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Welcome to the Coach's Office Behind the scenes with Chuck
Smith and David Buchanan. This is Season three, Episode twelve.
I'm Chuck Smith. I'm joined my co host David Buchanan,
podcast editor Slash Store Taylor Mike Yoakum, and our social
(01:04):
media manager is Noah King. Our YouTube version of this
podcast is at tacop T dot C, dot O, dot P.
If you access it, then please hit like and subscribe it.
Really it really helps us out. He is playoff time
in the Bluegrass playoffs are starting, so we have Jay Fallon,
(01:26):
the head football coach of Owensboro High School, as our
guest coach. Coach Fallon has had a lot of success
during the playoffs. We are hoping that he will share
some of that knowledge with us tonight. Our tough topic
for the night is anonymous. Again, if a head football
(01:48):
coach loses his staff, can he get them back where
That's gonna be another tough one. David Man, if somebody's
coming up with these tough ones for us, and then
as far as the games of the week, then we
were going to pick the first round who we think
might be a first round upset. David and I will
(02:08):
before we bring Jay on. Then, let me tell you
a little bit about him. Jay Fallen the head football
coach of Oorinsborough High School. As I said, he was
hired in two and twenty fifteen. I believe he was
twenty eight years old when he took this job, and
that's pretty young to take over a program like Owensboro.
(02:29):
But he was an assistant there, I believe, for five
years for Joe Prince before he took over the head
coaching job for the past a little bit about his success.
For the past five seasons, he's made it to at
least the fourth round, which you know is the semi finals.
He made it to the semi finals and was the
(02:51):
state runner up in twenty twenty. Every year that he's
been the head football coach, he has made it at
least to the third round except for one year, so
eight out of nine years he's at least made it
to the third round. The last five years he's made
it to the fourth round plus a state runner up.
Trophy to go with that. Pretty impressive coach, as I
(03:15):
must be doing something right during playoff time. We're going
to ask him some questions about that. David, you want
to bring coach on.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's really neat to have Jay with us. Jay, you
worked with two of my favorite people there in Joe
Prince and Jeffries, and they always spoke very highly of you.
And I know you're busy between family and playoffs and
a thank you so much for making time for us tonight.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Hi, Well, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate
the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes, sir, so I will jug that's going Gead, let
me get right in it.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Hey, coach, what's your philosophies and beliefs in developing a
program into a contender? And you certainly have have done that.
You've been a contender every year, as we just spoke
of in the introduction. You know, what's your philosophies and beliefs?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
That's it, As you guys know, that's a that's a
tough question to answer, I mean because a lot goes
into it. But if I had to talk about the
things that I think that are most foundational to success
year in and year out, first of all, is we
all say this every time. You have to have talented players,
and we've all three been the beneficiary of having very
talented players over the course of our careers. Then the
(04:28):
things that we can control to have a great staff
is so important. This is not a job that anybody
can do alone. I firmly believe that you've got to
have a great staff of coaches and you have to
constantly be thinking about recruiting staff. It seems that that
each year now, as every year that passes, there's more
and more turnover in the ranks and staff, and it's
(04:50):
more and more important to be out constantly recruiting talented
guys that want to be a part of your program,
Guys that want to do things the right way, Guys
that are invested in player developments and understand the big
picture of coaching throughout the program nine through twelve. Having
a great middle school program. We've been very fortunate that
our middle school program has been run by coach Greg
(05:12):
Brown for over a decade now, and he's done an
absolutely fantastic job of developing those guys so that they're
prepared to be a member of a freshman football team
when they arrive at us with us of the off
season weight program is vital and you have to have
the right guy. If it's not going to be you,
you have to have the right guy running your off
season weight program. I know that this isn't really novel
(05:34):
or unique anymore, but for about ten years now, we've
had in school weightlifting and I think that's so important.
Cannot overstate the value and importance of that. We have
a great guy that runs that for us. He's an
assistant coach that's been with me from the very beginning
and he does a fantastic job and that There's just
so many benefits that come from having in school weightlifting,
and one of them is it allows us to really
(05:56):
encourage our guys to play multiple sports. You all know
it hard if you've got a guy that's gonna play
linebacker for you, and as soon as football season's over,
he's gone to basketball, And as soon as basketball season's over,
he's gone to baseball or track what you want him
to do. That does make it hard for him to
lift if he's not lifting in school, and that's such
an important part of it, such an important piece of it.
(06:17):
And guy's developed so much in the weight room in
the off season, and that's just it's just so important
to be conscientious about all those different things year round,
developing a staff, developing your players, investing in freshman and
JV football, investing in middle school football, having a system
that allows you to develop your guys. That's sort of
our philosophy. Obviously from a thousand foot view and a
(06:41):
three minute answer, but that that would be I think
at the essence our philosophy of how we try to
do things year in and year out.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Hey, Jade, is your guy. Is he a pe teacher
in the school?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Is he's a pe teacher and all he does all
day is strength And we have our school schedule is
set up as an alternating block, so we have red
days and black days, and it works out to where
he has male athletes on black days and female athletes
on red days, and that has worked well for us,
and I think that we've seen improvements across all of
(07:15):
our athletic programs as a result of his investments and
his efforts, and he enjoys doing it. And you guys
know as well as I do that you've got to
have somebody that's excited about front squats on a Thursday
in January. If you're going to be really good, you know,
and you've got to have somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Do you get all of your players football players in.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
The class the vast majority. Sometimes we can't get all
the freshmen in there, especially first semester, and sometimes if
we've got a young man that takes off campus classes
or ap classes. So in the off season what we
do in season, if you're not in the class, it's hard.
We lift one day basically, but in the off season
(07:56):
we provide after school lifting four days week for the
handful of guys that are able to lift in school.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Got so a coach some of them. I've asked our
other guests, because we've had a lot of, you know,
very successful guys here, especially in the postseason. Your program
knows how to make a run in November. Is there
anything you do differently in the playoffs as compared to
the regular season.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I thought a lot about that. I mean, I appreciate
you guys kind of giving me the questions in advance
and given some time to think about that, And I
wouldn't say that there's anything necessarily different we do in
terms of every time we go out on the field.
We want to win, obviously, whether it's August, September, October,
but we want to really build our program so that
we're at our best in November. And some of the
(08:45):
things that we do differently, but I think just kind
of happens naturally some of them, but we really want
to put at the forefront of our players' minds at
this point, beginning this week that we use the phrase
weekend and week out, no stone unturned. So now it's November.
Every chance, every time you have ten minutes, be on huddle,
be watching film. Every time when it's ten o'clock and
(09:08):
you look up and you can continue to play the
video game or go to bed, go to bed, be
conscientious about your hydration. And we want to talk about
these things all the time, but we want to take
a new sort of sense of urgency about it when
it gets to be November. And something that we say
to them, try to say to them every day, is
that come Friday at about ten thirty, we're either going
to be getting ready for another opponent next week or
we're going to be playing the banquet, you know, And
(09:30):
so we've got to do everything that we can to
try to prepare ourselves as players and coaches to try
to go out here and win this game. This is
one of the things that I think lends itself to
a little bit more of a sense of urgency, if
you will, naturally, is that there aren't any more JV
in freshman games. So it's nice because today we were
(09:53):
really able to have the whole varsity staff for the
first time on a Monday evening. I know you guys
know this too. It's nice that you're all the other
you're all focused on. Not that JV and freshman games
are super important. We want to do those things in
the regular season, but now we have just that that
much more time together to really focus on getting ready
for Friday. So now let's adjust what we're doing on Monday.
(10:14):
If it was on Monday we were watching film and
going out for an hour, and now we got to
get out of the way to get ready for the JV. Guys,
let's use that extra time wisely to spend some more
time watching film, going over to scouting report, maybe a
little extra conditioning routes on air, just trying to set
the tone for the guys that we're going to squeeze
every out drop of water we can out of the
(10:35):
rag when we're together, when we're not together, to try
to go out here and win a ball game and
keep this thing going.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, well, you've certainly done something right because you've had
a lot of success.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
November, Hey, and the coach, you're a season coach with
a good feel for Kentucky high school football. And if
you could change one thing in the Kentucky High School
Athletic Association during the structure of football to make it better,
what would it be? You know, it could be just
it's sort of a random question, but I'm just curious about,
(11:09):
you know, what people think would could or would make
you know Kentucky high school football better. You know, it
could be the RPI, could be the playoff format. Anything.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think it's a very good question because, as we
all know, we're one of the very few sports nationally
and statewide that year over year participation numbers are going down.
So if we want to be conscientious about the sport
that we all three love, I think it's a very
good question to ask. So something that I think about
a lot that I think would be what can we
(11:39):
do to get numbers up? Not just that that one's
Borough High School, but across the state. And I think
one of the things that we that we really could
do and should do, and should look towards doing that
I think would would have a huge impact on that
is the not drastically, but the shortening of the season.
I think that football season, particularly the summer commitment, is
(12:00):
that I think you see a big divide from when
a kid's in eighth grade, it's when he becomes a
freshman in the summer commitment. I think it's a good thing.
I think it's good for kids to be pushed and
challenged or have to show commitment. But I think that
if we would go to a nine game regular season,
possibly do away with the bye week, possibly shorten the
postseason to just four rounds, now, all of a sudden,
(12:21):
we could start football preseason on August first instead of
July tenth. And I think a couple of things will
happen there. One, you're getting rid of a few of
the hotter weeks where it's a little bit more dangerous
for the kids coming out of the dead period. And two,
I think you're going to see numbers participation numbers go
up because I just think it's really hard, especially in
some of these big rural counties where kids have to
(12:41):
travel vast distances to get to practice every day. I
think it's hard in the summertime. It's hard for coaches
to know how to structure it. You know, you'd like
to practice early in the morning to beat the heat,
but can all your kids get there at eight am?
How are you going to do it to a day?
How are you going to fit in the practice that
you need to have? When can we live? When can
we watch film? All those things sort of plays a
demand on a freshman who's not really in control of
(13:04):
where he goes if he doesn't have a ride and
his parents are working. I think that would be one
thing I thought a lot about it, and I think
that would be one thing that would probably pretty be
pretty good for the health of the game. I don't
know what do you all think about that.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I like it. I've thought for a long time. I
wish we didn't put a helmet on till August first. Yeah,
I just I'm like you. I just think we're going
earlier and earlier, and I think the heat does, you know,
discourage a lot of kids from playing always? You know,
(13:38):
now we go early. The varsity goes early, Like what
you're saying. Our freshman practice in the evening, but our
varsity goes at seven am in July. And a lot
of that's because heat. I mean, that's to me, it's
pretty simple. Heat leads to fatigue, Fatigue leads injury. So
if I can keep them cooler normally, we're going to
be better. But I agree with you, and you know
(13:59):
as far you know going to a nine game season.
The only thing that bothers me about that is the
financials of it. But I will say this, I've been
through some rough seasons, and I tell you what, if
it's a rough year, nine instead of ten may.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Not be all bad. Well, I just think that we've
got we've got to at least be open to the
possibility of finding ways to make the game more accessible
if we're going to continue to happen and have you know,
you all see this Every year, just like I do,
more and more freshman games are canceled, and JV games
are canceled, and tea schools of over a thousand kids
(14:38):
are not fielding freshman teams. And we've got and I
really think that's the big divide from eighth grade to
freshman year. Finding a way to keep those kids out
from eighth grade to freshman year and then again from
freshman to sophomore year's tough. But once you've got them
in your program and you know that at least you
know them, at least you've got a connection with them,
and you can kind of try to continue to foster that.
(14:59):
I just think that we've got to find ways to
continue to make the game more accessible to keeping the
numbers high so that the game can continue to be healthy.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, one thing I wanted to say on the
freshman game stuff, were playing a freshman JV conference. They
play doubleheaders, but they are six minute quarters, so you
might only have fifteen to twenty freshmen, but they're not
going to get beat up. And then you can mix
amendment in the JV game. But what gets you destroyed
with your freshman numbers is when your freshmen are playing
(15:30):
against juniors in ten twelve minute quarters and they're getting
a ear holed. Then the last point I want to
make I need to let Chuck talk, you know, but
Chuckle get on me this. Over the last thirty years,
he would say, David, you think too much about what's
best for Paris. For example, instead of what's best for
Kentucky high school football. I appreciate what you're saying, coach,
because Owinsborough doesn't have these issues. It's not a rural school,
(15:53):
you know, you guys like if you're like it was
at Paris, our kids would ride their bicycles.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
To practice every watch.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I appreciate what you're saying because I think you're offering
a solution that doesn't necessarily benefit one sparrow, but it
benefit benefits football in the state of Kentucky, which I'm
very appreciative of that approach.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think that I think Indiana does a nine game
regular season if I'm not mistaken, and then they start
their playoffs right after the nineteen I think everybody makes
the playoffs and that counts as their tenth game or so,
but they do short season. I would be in favor
of shortened uh you know, the artists moving the starting
date back, you know, to August, if and only if
(16:38):
everybody else is on board. And I'm talking about the
other sports. I'm talking about basketball, because if you don't
start them, then those kids, uh, those dual sport kids
are going to be playing baseball and they're gonna be
playing basketball all the way up until you know the
starting of football. So I mean, if there's some way
to shut all that down, then you know, I think
(17:00):
then you get what you want.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I agree, and I don't by no means am I
saying that this is something that I have thought through,
every every aspect of just something you got. You know,
as I thought about the question, something that we could
change about football that for the state would be good
for everyone, healthy for everyone, would continue to develop and
grow the health of the game, and find ways to
(17:22):
get more kids playing football.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think it's a good point.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah, I like that, coach. I like it a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I hate so my last, our last question for you,
I'm talking going back to Joel Prince, and I really
like having it. You know, it's funny listening to you talk.
I hope I don't make you mad on this. You
remind me a little bit of Jeff each when you
talk Jeff. Jeff's almost like a brother to me. I mean, well,
I can see that because you all you remind me
a lot of him. I bet y'all really got along
(17:50):
well and clicked well, but we did.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
We also had some some legendary arguments in the coach.
You guys know that about Jeff, he's not afraid the
state's opinion and that I always respected that so much
about him. And I'm sorry to be interrupting your question,
but you know, you guys, the last thing that any
of us needs as a head coach is a is
a yes man assistant. And I always said that Jeff,
you you will definitely never be accused of being a
(18:13):
yes man anybody.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So that's sometimes I think with Jeff he likes to
argue just for the sake I argue.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
It, but which you know what, it sharpens its sharp
I mean, when you when you know that you're gonna
have to you know that you're gonna have to defend
your opinion. Especially when I was a young O line
coach working for Jeff as an offensive coordinator. If I
was going to come in there with an idea about
something we should do, yeah, I better have thought it
through forward and backward and be prepared for for Whatso anyhow,
it made me a much better coach.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Well, and he is. He's a He's a great guy
and an excellent coach, and I still call him to
get help. But and my question is about Joe Prince
played the UK very successful coach at Owensboro, and I
just wondered how much of the things that Joe did
still impact your program and are still part of Red
Devil Football.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Well, so, Joe's the only coach I've ever worked for.
I mean I when I when I was finishing up college,
I got my student teaching placement here at Owensborough High School.
I was a little nervous about it at first because
I'd never had done all my practicing and all my
observations at different schools. Here, I just didn't know much
about OHS. But it turned out to be one of
the greatest strokes of fortune in my life because shortly
(19:23):
after getting here, through some mutual friends, I was introduced
to Coach Prince that spring and he hired me. And
it would be hard for me to separate and even
sort of look through and sift through and think of
all the things that I do that I learned from Joe.
I mean, probably if you were here the first couple
(19:46):
of years, nearly everything. I'm sure as the years have
gone by, developed a little bit more of a philosophy
of my own. But Joe's it's almost like a second
father to me, and taught me so much about the game,
and as I thought about it, if I to kind
of distill it down to just a few things that
I think we've really kept alive that were a big
part of Joe's philosophy was I think it's really important
(20:08):
no matter where you are, but especially when you're in
a place like Owensboro, to keep to teach your players
about the history and the tradition of the program. It matters.
And a couple of weeks ago, we had the fiftyth
re union for the nineteen seventy four state championship team,
and we were able to talk to the guys about
I mean, we had like thirty members of that team,
(20:29):
guys that are in their sixties and some coaches that
are in their eighties back and I think it's good
to show the current guys like this, it matters. It
matters to play football here. It still matters to these
guys all these years later. And then last week was
Henderson Week, and we talked to him about, you know,
we've been playing this game against Henderson. It's the third
oldest rivalry in the state of Kentucky. They've been playing
this game for so long that when they first started
(20:51):
playing it. The players walked to the train station, got
on a train, rode over to Henderson with their helmet
folded up in their back pocket, and walked to Hnderson
City High School at play. And I think we all
want to be all of us that appreciate team sports
want to be a part of something bigger than ourselves.
And I think that that's not only this year's team,
(21:13):
but also being a part of something that's been around
for so long it's special. And Joe was great about that.
And I can remember being a young coach and he
would be telling some story and I'd be standing there, thinking,
these kids don't care about this, you know, team that played,
But they do. They really do at the end of
the day, and it's something that sticks with them. And
then something else that he taught me that I would
(21:34):
sort of roll my eyes and eyes at when I
was twenty three years old and was sure I knew
everything he taught He taught all of us is the
importance of the often overlooked phase of the game and
special teams. I mean we I cannot tell you how
many times over the years we've won a big game
and I can point to a special teams play that
(21:54):
wanted for us or turned the momentum of the game,
whether it was a blocked punt or a kick turned
for a touchdown or fake punt converted for a first down.
And we would invest so much time in special teams
when Joe was the head coach, and and I just
learned that from him, that that there are a lot
of there are going to be a lot of games
(22:15):
where if you'll put the work in in special teams
and invest in it, you're gonna give yourself a huge
edge and advantage. And so and just putting the work in,
I mean Joe, Joe believed in it, you know, in
his heart and soul. He was he was in the
office and he was working and putting in the work,
and it mattered so much to him to try to
do a good job. And so just a lot, I
would say, a whole lot of things that I learned
(22:36):
from Joe are still very formative in what we do today.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You know, A one of my one of my connections
to Joe Prince, Jim McKee sometimes will say the only
people that will answer the phone when he calls, or
me or Joe Prince, that's it.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
H Yeah, Jim and I talk a lot too, so
he may be uh, you know, I might be the
third one on that. You're you're the third, You're We
always Joe. We always joke Jeff and I and did.
It seems every year there are fewer and fewer members
of the staff that were around when Joe was here.
But we always joked that if you're gonna talk to Joe,
which we all do a lot, but you better have
two or three hours, you better have a window heyside
(23:12):
because it's gonna be a long conversation.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Hey, were you there when we had the clinic there
with it was Mason County, Owensboro and Scott County and
we had like a foot of snow in Owensboro. Were
you there on the staff then? That was just before
my time my first year. I came and spoke at
Mason County High School.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, you you were? It was you guys. And Larry
French was there, Larry, Uh, it was it was so
nice and those old Hog Heaven days and those uh
and those clinic days. It was nice to be around
Larry French and Jim McKee because it was nice to
have somebody that would kind of bust Joe's chops too.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You know, hey, we got down there. We had a
foot of snow, and my staff is looking at me
like what have you done to us? Because it's like
we have driven four hours from home and we're in
a foot of snow and we're at a coach's clinic.
But you know, you know, like talking about Joe and
Jim and all of us, it's like, that's sort of
(24:07):
what we do. It's like, Okay, it's gonna snow afoot.
We got a clinic this weekend. We told them we're coming.
We're speaking, We're going to the clinic. If snow, they'll
straight the road and then we'll go somewhere.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
So but one of the neat things I remember about
that clinic, and I was just young and just happy
to be there. I mean, I remember, you remember what
it's like when you're brand new coach. I was just
happy to be there and had my owns bro stuff on.
And when you go to these coach of the Year clinics,
which there's I enjoy that too. And you're listening to
an SEC defensive coordinator talking about the seventeen checks he
(24:42):
has for his kid based on what formation, and you're
sitting there thinking this is great, but I'm not sure
it's super applicable to high school football. With those clinics,
it was great because we didn't play each other, so
nobody was worried about giving away trade secrets. And it
was really just high school football coaches talking about how
they handle problems. And it was everything from protecting against
(25:03):
a three three stack to how you handle an angry parent.
And I learned a ton at those clinics.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
You know. Last thing about those clinics, the one in Maswell,
Jim McKee and Jeffries stayed at my house and I'd
just been talking about that and how hey, if you
quit your senior you turned your pride gear from your
freshman year. So Jim gets up to speak on Saturday.
He says, yeah, he said, I was staying at David's
house last night a forty year old man showed up
(25:30):
to turn in his pride gear.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
I can't wish I could tell some I wish I
could tell some McKey stories from hog Heaven, but better not,
I know, trying to pick them GM rating.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But yeah, man, I'm glad you brought that up because
those were those were great days really, to be quite
honest with you. I think that's one of the reasons
I can't give this up. I just I don't want
to give up those days. Those were the best days.
And that's why I think when I finally can't coach anymore,
this podcast is really going to fill that void because
(26:03):
I feel like like we're talking to you tonight, you know,
we're we're sort of getting to rehash and relive a
lot of things that make us love coaching high school football.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
The camaraderie of playing, and then when you're done playing,
at least in my experience, you think where am I
going to find that? And then you get in the
coach's office and the camaraderie that's a part of the
coach's office and that you still have with the guys
on the team. I don't know how how we'll duplicate
it whenever it's over. I mean, it's a special thing
(26:33):
to be a part of, and I think it'll be
hard to find in life after that. And it's just
unbelievably awesome memories. Yeah, it's facial stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Well a coach, thank you, and you did a phenomenal job.
It was great to have.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You appreciate the opportunity, guys, and take care and best
of luck to you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
If a head football coach loses his staff, can he
get them back?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Who?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
You know what, here's the thing about these tough topics.
They give you a truer picture of the stuff you
gotta deal with. It really does. And this is a
hard one now, And here's here's where I'm going to
go with this one. I really I don't think I've
ever lost the staff, and I don't think I've really
heard of a lot of this happening. I guess it does.
(27:21):
But but I did go back to this. I remember
there was a night it was an away game, and
the bulk of my staff was fired up, mad at me,
and we had won, but they still there are some
things they weren't real happy about. And so we got
home and we went in the office and we talked
(27:45):
until we sort of came to an understanding, I guess
is the best way to put it. And and you know, uh,
these are all guys that I mean, these are my
best friends still, they're my family. There are guys I
love very much. I see and talk to them a
lot still, even though we're not coaching together. And I
(28:08):
just I think, you know, I look at this question
and I think about last week's question about the administrator
and you know, dealing with the head coach and a
complaint all that kind of stuff, and I just go,
I tell you what. On the front end, I just
I don't think there's any substitute. And you've got to
(28:29):
hire great people. And I think you'd be better off
as a head coach to coach a team by yourself
than to hire somebody that's you know, maybe doesn't want
to do what you want to do, or maybe they're
not a good guy, or I mean, it's just it's
just really tough. And so can a head coach get
(28:51):
his staff back? I would say probably the answer is yes.
I would think it would be incredibly difficult, but I
think it's going to take a lot of communication. And
I think if you feel like you've lost your staff
as a head coach, I think he might not have
stepped back and say did I hire the right people
for these roles? And you know, here's the other part
(29:12):
of all of this. At the end of the day,
if the head coach made poor hires, that's the head
coach's fault. That's his fault. And at the end of
the day, if you're going to be the head coach,
you have to own what happens in your program, even
if it's bad, even if you want to say it
(29:32):
wasn't my control or this or that. At the end
of the day, you've put people in these roles and
so you know what, if it doesn't work out, look
in the mirror. And you know, and I would add this,
if you don't want to look in the mirror and
you don't want to own it, you don't need to
be a head coach. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Well, I mean, I agree with what you said. I
here's what I thought. Here's what I put it. If
the coach lost him in the first place, that it
tells me that he did a poor job initially of
getting them all on the same page from the very beginning.
You know, maybe he lost them because he never had it,
(30:12):
you know. And hiring a staff is critical to the
success of a head football coach. During the interview process,
I think it's more important than the knowledge then there
that than the guy you're interviewing then their knowledge is
to make sure that his philosophy is similar to yours
(30:35):
and that his personality fits in your coach's office, because
that's really important. He's got to be able to get
along with the other coaches. His personality is going to
have to fit in there, and uh, his his philosophy
needs to be similar to yours or or there's probably
one to be problems. Staff chemistry is just critical to
(30:56):
the success of the program. Uh. And as you said,
I say the same thing. I would rather do it
myself or be short staffed then to have a disloyal
assistant coach on my staff. It did happen to me once.
The assistant coach he thought I was too hard on
(31:16):
the kids. And it was at a time when we
weren't having success. That's when everything is bigger, and bigger
is when you're not having success. Then it seems like
that's when everybody you know or everything just this kind
of uh, you know, it just becomes bigger. Anyway, we
(31:38):
weren't having a success, so you know, it made it worse.
So we agreed that we needed to go, that he
needed to go. You know, we parted ways, and he did.
He didn't he didn't share my philosophy. He didn't share
he didn't have we didn't have the same philosophy. So
It doesn't mean that my philosophy is right and his
(32:00):
philosophy was wrong. It just means that I'm the head
football coach and it has to be my way, you know,
because that's I'm the one in charge. You know, My
my neck is on the line.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
If you don't have a if you don't have staff chemistry,
then from one or more of your assistants, or one
or more of your assistants are disloyal to you, then
you're really in trouble. And I think you have to
try to rectify it, rectify the relationship. Maybe meet with
(32:36):
that coach individually and try to rectify the situation. Maybe maybe,
you know, try to work through it and see if
y'all can get on the same page, see if it's
any possibility that you can get on the same page.
If you can't amend you know, the problem, and and
and amend the relationship, then you need to terminate his contract,
(33:00):
even if it's mid season, even if it's right then
and there, because if you don't, and your contract is
the one that's eventually going to be terminated, because you're
never going to be having any success if you have
disloyal coaches on your staff. My advice to this question,
to this coach on this question to preventing this from happening,
(33:24):
is it's really essential that you start every season, every
season reviewing and emphasizing the expectations of your staff and
their particular role. You know, you should have a meeting
for that. You know, this is the meeting. We're going
to have a meeting before practice official practice starts, and
this is what this meeting is going to be about.
(33:45):
It's going to be about my expectations for the assistant
coaches and your particular role that you know, I have
you assigned to for this year. You know, I think
Brandon my Son he does a great job with that.
He has meeting and he gets everybody on the same page.
It's it's really it's you know, it's really a good
(34:06):
a good meeting, and I think it's essential that you
do that. You got to have everybody on the same page. Hey,
my philosophy was this. I never really felt like assistant
coaches you know that they work for me. I didn't
like that term. I still don't like the term you
know you you know that you work for me, because
(34:28):
I don't believe that. I don't believe you work for me.
I believe, I believe you work, we work together. You
work with me, and I know someone has to be
in charge. I get that. You know the head football
coaches neck is the one that's on the line. I
get that. But you know you don't work for me.
You work with me.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I like that. That's uh, that's good stuff. And again
I think it's we got young coaches out there, especially
ones that want to be a head coach someday. I
just think it's it's so critical you get those right
pieces in place up front, and like you said with
(35:07):
your with your preseason meeting, make sure everybody knows sort
of what's coming down the road. So all right, so
let's get into our game of the week and picking
first round upsets. So what about you want me to
go first, or you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Tell it. I can go first, it doesn't matter. I
don't have any one seed and four seed. I don't
have any four seed upsetting a one seeds. But I
do have three that I think would be a three
seed upsetting the two seed because three of those and
(35:44):
and mine would be I'm picking Barron County to beat
Henderson County. I just think Barron County has got a
lot of momentum going. You know, Henderson County has been
up and down, not being very not being consualed. And
I think Barron County has been pretty consistent all all
year long and they've had a great year, and I
(36:06):
think they're going to take that momentum into the playoffs
and I think it could be an upset over Henderson County.
I picked Bullet East over Ballard. Bullet East is a
strong football program. Ballard hasn't had a great year. They've
been they've they've been inconsistent, up and down. I'm picking
Bullet East over Ballard. That's a three seed, beating the
(36:26):
two seed. And then I'm also going to pick Warren
East over John Harden. I think Warren East has got
some really good football players, and I think they're gonna
pull off, you know, beating John Harden, Who's who's a
two seed. Those are my upsets.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
What about you, Well, I don't know, I don't know.
I've got a I've got a three over a two,
which I'll be honest with you, I'm not real thrilled
to come forward with. And then I've actually think I've
got a four, maybe gonna get a warm I would
not be surprised to see North Laurel beat Montgomery County.
(37:04):
North Laurel's the fourth of Montgomery came in first in
their district. We just played Montgomery, and I tell you what,
give them credit. They played their butts off. They beat us,
They scored at the very end of the game, beat
us twenty to nineteen. They did a great job, and
I was impressed with the kids and their efforts. But
I do think though that North Laurel has played some
(37:27):
really good people with Pulaski in South and Southwestern.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I just I can see I can see North Laurel
getting that game so.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Good tis good? Texts Hey David, who's going to be
on our podcast next week?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Well, next week we will have Philip Hawkins from Brian's Station.
And I tell you, if you have been paying attention
in the playoffs, Philip has done an exceptional job. Brian's
Station is good, but they're a different level in November.
(38:10):
They really are. And I think I think Phillip's good
at that. And you know, Philip, I don't know if
anybody's been paying attention, but one of our ongoing themes
is being going with coach Kershner, and then Doug Charles
and Mike Salmon's and Jay Follen. I think we even
did this with coach borcher Is talking about are there
(38:31):
things you do different in the postseason that you've been
doing when the season started. And you know, I think
coach Hopkins is gonna be a good person to talk
about that because he there is a big difference in
Brian's station in season in November, There's no doubt about it.
I saw him play in the state championship last year,
and uh, I think he's gonna be a really good guest.
(38:52):
And then this is gonna be a good question, which
he When Jay was talking about Owensboro's history, it wasn't
that long ago that our historical segment was the Orangsboro
Henderson brawl that kept the sixty seven orainsbur A team
from winning a state title because they weren't allowed to
get in the playoffs. And I thought of Mac. I
(39:12):
wish I brought it up then, But Mac is giving
us our tough topic for the week, which is what
is the shelf life of a high school or a
college football coach? And Mac being Mac, I think that
is a great question. And and I mean and that's
(39:33):
that's something you and I have talked about and I've
even I've even heard I won't get into it now,
I've heard three numbers for what your shelf life is
as a head coach. I've heard three. So we'll hash
that out and uh, I'm looking forward to it. But uh,
you know, Max always got I tell you what Mac.
You know, we go back to high school together. We're
(39:54):
at Mercer County High together. One of the things about
Mac that's always been true, He's he's got a he's
got an ability. He can just look at he just
looks at things differently. He just does He's he's got
a different approach. And I really like that about him.
And I'm really glad he's part of our podcast. And
I'll let you talk about the historical segment you gotta get.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, just make sure you hang on and listen to
that historical segment. It's really good. As David said, uh
not does it every week and it's it's super We
appreciate you guys listening and tuning in. Look forward to
next week.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
Sports, and in particular, high school sports, are woven into
the fabric of Americana. High school sports are part of
the DNA of communities across the country, and that is
certainly true in Kentucky. Fans know the stories of the
big names, but there are many names and many stories
that have been lost to history. This series highlights those
(41:01):
forgotten heroes. Welcome to this edition of Forgotten Heroes. I'm
your host, mack Yokum. We've all heard of the ripple effect,
you know, when an initial disturbance to a system goes
outward to disturb an increasingly larger part of the system,
just like ripples across water. Now what does that have
(41:22):
to do with our story. Well, if you'll go back
and listen to one of my older episodes, you can
learn about Kermit Williams from Frankfort High and how he
broke the color barrier at Frankfort in nineteen fifty six.
So here's the synopsis. In September nineteen fifty six, Kermit Williams,
an African American transfer student from the all black male
(41:44):
Wunderwood School, became the first African American athlete at Frankfort
High and with a cross burning on the hill over Sourfield,
Kermit scored two touchdowns to lead the Panthers to a
victory over mount Sterling and Life Magazine was in attendance,
documenting the event because it was so historic. Now, Kermit
(42:07):
put up big numbers running behind a good line anchored
by senner John Surgeon. John Sergeant was an intelligent student,
and he was intrigued by the plight of his new
teammate and the other Mayo Underwood transfer students, and he
quickly realized that the concept of separate but equal had
(42:28):
been very flawed. John learned that his new teammate and
the other Mayo Underwood students had never seen a science
lab or had an adequate library, and their math was
little more than basic algebra. That was a lesson that
John would always remember. In the fall of nineteen fifty nine,
(42:50):
John Sergeant entered Vanderbilt University and saw firsthand when Vanderbilt
University divinity student James Lawson was organizing nonviolent sit ins
to protest Nashville's segregation policies. John later said that it
gnawed away at him that he saw what was going
(43:11):
on and did nothing about it. Fast forward to the
fall of nineteen sixty one, John Sergeant was elected to
the Vanderbilt Student Senate, and he quickly proposed a bill
that would recommend to the Board of Trustees to desegregate
all of the schools at Vanderbilt, but the bill failed
by one vote. He then took the issue to a
(43:35):
vote of the entire student body, and again it failed,
this time by two hundred votes. John Surgeon and his
friend future Tennessee Governor and Senator Lamar Alexander were not
to be deterred. They went straight to the top. They
went to Harold Vanderbilt himself and Chancellor Harvey Branscombe, and
(43:56):
two months later, Vanderbilt University was desegregated, and in nineteen
sixty six, Vanderbilt had Perry Wallace take the basketball court
as the first African American basketball player in the Southeastern Conference.
So a ripple that started at Little Frankfort High School
(44:19):
when Kermit Williams transferred to play football and met his
new teammate, John Sergeant kept going until a university changed
his policies, and it kept going until an entire conference
was changed forever. Oh, and what happened to John Sergeant.
(44:39):
He went to med school at Vanderbilt and became doctor
John Sergeant. He spent his career at Vanderbilt in multiple roles.
He was Chief Medical Officer of the Vanderbilt Medical Group,
Senior Associate Dean for Clinical Affairs, vice chairman for Education Program,
director for the Residency Training Program, and A Rooumatology. Those
(45:01):
ripples just keep on going. You can find all the
Forgotten Heroes episodes at most podcast locations, including Spotify and iHeart.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
The Pretected cost said ptected from side to state. The
(46:22):
distinct practice st
Coach David Buchanan coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Welcome to the Coach's Office Behind the scenes with Chuck
Smith and David Buchanan. This is Season three, Episode twelve.
I'm Chuck Smith. I'm joined my co host David Buchanan,
podcast editor Slash Store Taylor Mike Yoakum, and our social
(01:04):
media manager is Noah King. Our YouTube version of this
podcast is at tacop T dot C, dot O, dot P.
If you access it, then please hit like and subscribe it.
Really it really helps us out. He is playoff time
in the Bluegrass playoffs are starting, so we have Jay Fallon,
(01:26):
the head football coach of Owensboro High School, as our
guest coach. Coach Fallon has had a lot of success
during the playoffs. We are hoping that he will share
some of that knowledge with us tonight. Our tough topic
for the night is anonymous. Again, if a head football
(01:48):
coach loses his staff, can he get them back where
That's gonna be another tough one. David Man, if somebody's
coming up with these tough ones for us, and then
as far as the games of the week, then we
were going to pick the first round who we think
might be a first round upset. David and I will
(02:08):
before we bring Jay on. Then, let me tell you
a little bit about him. Jay Fallen the head football
coach of Oorinsborough High School. As I said, he was
hired in two and twenty fifteen. I believe he was
twenty eight years old when he took this job, and
that's pretty young to take over a program like Owensboro.
(02:29):
But he was an assistant there, I believe, for five
years for Joe Prince before he took over the head
coaching job for the past a little bit about his success.
For the past five seasons, he's made it to at
least the fourth round, which you know is the semi finals.
He made it to the semi finals and was the
(02:51):
state runner up in twenty twenty. Every year that he's
been the head football coach, he has made it at
least to the third round except for one year, so
eight out of nine years he's at least made it
to the third round. The last five years he's made
it to the fourth round plus a state runner up.
Trophy to go with that. Pretty impressive coach, as I
(03:15):
must be doing something right during playoff time. We're going
to ask him some questions about that. David, you want
to bring coach on.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's really neat to have Jay with us. Jay, you
worked with two of my favorite people there in Joe
Prince and Jeffries, and they always spoke very highly of you.
And I know you're busy between family and playoffs and
a thank you so much for making time for us tonight.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Hi, Well, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate
the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes, sir, so I will jug that's going Gead, let
me get right in it.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Hey, coach, what's your philosophies and beliefs in developing a
program into a contender? And you certainly have have done that.
You've been a contender every year, as we just spoke
of in the introduction. You know, what's your philosophies and beliefs?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
That's it, As you guys know, that's a that's a
tough question to answer, I mean because a lot goes
into it. But if I had to talk about the
things that I think that are most foundational to success
year in and year out, first of all, is we
all say this every time. You have to have talented players,
and we've all three been the beneficiary of having very
talented players over the course of our careers. Then the
(04:28):
things that we can control to have a great staff
is so important. This is not a job that anybody
can do alone. I firmly believe that you've got to
have a great staff of coaches and you have to
constantly be thinking about recruiting staff. It seems that that
each year now, as every year that passes, there's more
and more turnover in the ranks and staff, and it's
(04:50):
more and more important to be out constantly recruiting talented
guys that want to be a part of your program,
Guys that want to do things the right way, Guys
that are invested in player developments and understand the big
picture of coaching throughout the program nine through twelve. Having
a great middle school program. We've been very fortunate that
our middle school program has been run by coach Greg
(05:12):
Brown for over a decade now, and he's done an
absolutely fantastic job of developing those guys so that they're
prepared to be a member of a freshman football team
when they arrive at us with us of the off
season weight program is vital and you have to have
the right guy. If it's not going to be you,
you have to have the right guy running your off
season weight program. I know that this isn't really novel
(05:34):
or unique anymore, but for about ten years now, we've
had in school weightlifting and I think that's so important.
Cannot overstate the value and importance of that. We have
a great guy that runs that for us. He's an
assistant coach that's been with me from the very beginning
and he does a fantastic job and that There's just
so many benefits that come from having in school weightlifting,
and one of them is it allows us to really
(05:56):
encourage our guys to play multiple sports. You all know
it hard if you've got a guy that's gonna play
linebacker for you, and as soon as football season's over,
he's gone to basketball, And as soon as basketball season's over,
he's gone to baseball or track what you want him
to do. That does make it hard for him to
lift if he's not lifting in school, and that's such
an important part of it, such an important piece of it.
(06:17):
And guy's developed so much in the weight room in
the off season, and that's just it's just so important
to be conscientious about all those different things year round,
developing a staff, developing your players, investing in freshman and
JV football, investing in middle school football, having a system
that allows you to develop your guys. That's sort of
our philosophy. Obviously from a thousand foot view and a
(06:41):
three minute answer, but that that would be I think
at the essence our philosophy of how we try to
do things year in and year out.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Hey, Jade, is your guy. Is he a pe teacher
in the school?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Is he's a pe teacher and all he does all
day is strength And we have our school schedule is
set up as an alternating block, so we have red
days and black days, and it works out to where
he has male athletes on black days and female athletes
on red days, and that has worked well for us,
and I think that we've seen improvements across all of
(07:15):
our athletic programs as a result of his investments and
his efforts, and he enjoys doing it. And you guys
know as well as I do that you've got to
have somebody that's excited about front squats on a Thursday
in January. If you're going to be really good, you know,
and you've got to have somebody to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Do you get all of your players football players in.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
The class the vast majority. Sometimes we can't get all
the freshmen in there, especially first semester, and sometimes if
we've got a young man that takes off campus classes
or ap classes. So in the off season what we
do in season, if you're not in the class, it's hard.
We lift one day basically, but in the off season
(07:56):
we provide after school lifting four days week for the
handful of guys that are able to lift in school.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Got so a coach some of them. I've asked our
other guests, because we've had a lot of, you know,
very successful guys here, especially in the postseason. Your program
knows how to make a run in November. Is there
anything you do differently in the playoffs as compared to
the regular season.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I thought a lot about that. I mean, I appreciate
you guys kind of giving me the questions in advance
and given some time to think about that, And I
wouldn't say that there's anything necessarily different we do in
terms of every time we go out on the field.
We want to win, obviously, whether it's August, September, October,
but we want to really build our program so that
we're at our best in November. And some of the
(08:45):
things that we do differently, but I think just kind
of happens naturally some of them, but we really want
to put at the forefront of our players' minds at
this point, beginning this week that we use the phrase
weekend and week out, no stone unturned. So now it's November.
Every chance, every time you have ten minutes, be on huddle,
be watching film. Every time when it's ten o'clock and
(09:08):
you look up and you can continue to play the
video game or go to bed, go to bed, be
conscientious about your hydration. And we want to talk about
these things all the time, but we want to take
a new sort of sense of urgency about it when
it gets to be November. And something that we say
to them, try to say to them every day, is
that come Friday at about ten thirty, we're either going
to be getting ready for another opponent next week or
we're going to be playing the banquet, you know, And
(09:30):
so we've got to do everything that we can to
try to prepare ourselves as players and coaches to try
to go out here and win this game. This is
one of the things that I think lends itself to
a little bit more of a sense of urgency, if
you will, naturally, is that there aren't any more JV
in freshman games. So it's nice because today we were
(09:53):
really able to have the whole varsity staff for the
first time on a Monday evening. I know you guys
know this too. It's nice that you're all the other
you're all focused on. Not that JV and freshman games
are super important. We want to do those things in
the regular season, but now we have just that that
much more time together to really focus on getting ready
for Friday. So now let's adjust what we're doing on Monday.
(10:14):
If it was on Monday we were watching film and
going out for an hour, and now we got to
get out of the way to get ready for the JV. Guys,
let's use that extra time wisely to spend some more
time watching film, going over to scouting report, maybe a
little extra conditioning routes on air, just trying to set
the tone for the guys that we're going to squeeze
every out drop of water we can out of the
(10:35):
rag when we're together, when we're not together, to try
to go out here and win a ball game and
keep this thing going.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, well, you've certainly done something right because you've had
a lot of success.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
November, Hey, and the coach, you're a season coach with
a good feel for Kentucky high school football. And if
you could change one thing in the Kentucky High School
Athletic Association during the structure of football to make it better,
what would it be? You know, it could be just
it's sort of a random question, but I'm just curious about,
(11:09):
you know, what people think would could or would make
you know Kentucky high school football better. You know, it
could be the RPI, could be the playoff format. Anything.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think it's a very good question because, as we
all know, we're one of the very few sports nationally
and statewide that year over year participation numbers are going down.
So if we want to be conscientious about the sport
that we all three love, I think it's a very
good question to ask. So something that I think about
a lot that I think would be what can we
(11:39):
do to get numbers up? Not just that that one's
Borough High School, but across the state. And I think
one of the things that we that we really could
do and should do, and should look towards doing that
I think would would have a huge impact on that
is the not drastically, but the shortening of the season.
I think that football season, particularly the summer commitment, is
(12:00):
that I think you see a big divide from when
a kid's in eighth grade, it's when he becomes a
freshman in the summer commitment. I think it's a good thing.
I think it's good for kids to be pushed and
challenged or have to show commitment. But I think that
if we would go to a nine game regular season,
possibly do away with the bye week, possibly shorten the
postseason to just four rounds, now, all of a sudden,
(12:21):
we could start football preseason on August first instead of
July tenth. And I think a couple of things will
happen there. One, you're getting rid of a few of
the hotter weeks where it's a little bit more dangerous
for the kids coming out of the dead period. And two,
I think you're going to see numbers participation numbers go
up because I just think it's really hard, especially in
some of these big rural counties where kids have to
(12:41):
travel vast distances to get to practice every day. I
think it's hard in the summertime. It's hard for coaches
to know how to structure it. You know, you'd like
to practice early in the morning to beat the heat,
but can all your kids get there at eight am?
How are you going to do it to a day?
How are you going to fit in the practice that
you need to have? When can we live? When can
we watch film? All those things sort of plays a
demand on a freshman who's not really in control of
(13:04):
where he goes if he doesn't have a ride and
his parents are working. I think that would be one
thing I thought a lot about it, and I think
that would be one thing that would probably pretty be
pretty good for the health of the game. I don't
know what do you all think about that.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
I like it. I've thought for a long time. I
wish we didn't put a helmet on till August first. Yeah,
I just I'm like you. I just think we're going
earlier and earlier, and I think the heat does, you know,
discourage a lot of kids from playing always? You know,
(13:38):
now we go early. The varsity goes early, Like what
you're saying. Our freshman practice in the evening, but our
varsity goes at seven am in July. And a lot
of that's because heat. I mean, that's to me, it's
pretty simple. Heat leads to fatigue, Fatigue leads injury. So
if I can keep them cooler normally, we're going to
be better. But I agree with you, and you know
(13:59):
as far you know going to a nine game season.
The only thing that bothers me about that is the
financials of it. But I will say this, I've been
through some rough seasons, and I tell you what, if
it's a rough year, nine instead of ten may.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
Not be all bad. Well, I just think that we've
got we've got to at least be open to the
possibility of finding ways to make the game more accessible
if we're going to continue to happen and have you know,
you all see this Every year, just like I do,
more and more freshman games are canceled, and JV games
are canceled, and tea schools of over a thousand kids
(14:38):
are not fielding freshman teams. And we've got and I
really think that's the big divide from eighth grade to
freshman year. Finding a way to keep those kids out
from eighth grade to freshman year and then again from
freshman to sophomore year's tough. But once you've got them
in your program and you know that at least you
know them, at least you've got a connection with them,
and you can kind of try to continue to foster that.
(14:59):
I just think that we've got to find ways to
continue to make the game more accessible to keeping the
numbers high so that the game can continue to be healthy.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, one thing I wanted to say on the
freshman game stuff, were playing a freshman JV conference. They
play doubleheaders, but they are six minute quarters, so you
might only have fifteen to twenty freshmen, but they're not
going to get beat up. And then you can mix
amendment in the JV game. But what gets you destroyed
with your freshman numbers is when your freshmen are playing
(15:30):
against juniors in ten twelve minute quarters and they're getting
a ear holed. Then the last point I want to
make I need to let Chuck talk, you know, but
Chuckle get on me this. Over the last thirty years,
he would say, David, you think too much about what's
best for Paris. For example, instead of what's best for
Kentucky high school football. I appreciate what you're saying, coach,
because Owinsborough doesn't have these issues. It's not a rural school,
(15:53):
you know, you guys like if you're like it was
at Paris, our kids would ride their bicycles.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
To practice every watch.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I appreciate what you're saying because I think you're offering
a solution that doesn't necessarily benefit one sparrow, but it
benefit benefits football in the state of Kentucky, which I'm
very appreciative of that approach.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I think that I think Indiana does a nine game
regular season if I'm not mistaken, and then they start
their playoffs right after the nineteen I think everybody makes
the playoffs and that counts as their tenth game or so,
but they do short season. I would be in favor
of shortened uh you know, the artists moving the starting
date back, you know, to August, if and only if
(16:38):
everybody else is on board. And I'm talking about the
other sports. I'm talking about basketball, because if you don't
start them, then those kids, uh, those dual sport kids
are going to be playing baseball and they're gonna be
playing basketball all the way up until you know the
starting of football. So I mean, if there's some way
to shut all that down, then you know, I think
(17:00):
then you get what you want.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I agree, and I don't by no means am I
saying that this is something that I have thought through,
every every aspect of just something you got. You know,
as I thought about the question, something that we could
change about football that for the state would be good
for everyone, healthy for everyone, would continue to develop and
grow the health of the game, and find ways to
(17:22):
get more kids playing football.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think it's a good point.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Yeah, yeah, I like that, coach. I like it a lot.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I hate so my last, our last question for you,
I'm talking going back to Joel Prince, and I really
like having it. You know, it's funny listening to you talk.
I hope I don't make you mad on this. You
remind me a little bit of Jeff each when you
talk Jeff. Jeff's almost like a brother to me. I mean, well,
I can see that because you all you remind me
a lot of him. I bet y'all really got along
(17:50):
well and clicked well, but we did.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
We also had some some legendary arguments in the coach.
You guys know that about Jeff, he's not afraid the
state's opinion and that I always respected that so much
about him. And I'm sorry to be interrupting your question,
but you know, you guys, the last thing that any
of us needs as a head coach is a is
a yes man assistant. And I always said that Jeff,
you you will definitely never be accused of being a
(18:13):
yes man anybody.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So that's sometimes I think with Jeff he likes to
argue just for the sake I argue.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
It, but which you know what, it sharpens its sharp
I mean, when you when you know that you're gonna
have to you know that you're gonna have to defend
your opinion. Especially when I was a young O line
coach working for Jeff as an offensive coordinator. If I
was going to come in there with an idea about
something we should do, yeah, I better have thought it
through forward and backward and be prepared for for Whatso anyhow,
it made me a much better coach.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Well, and he is. He's a He's a great guy
and an excellent coach, and I still call him to
get help. But and my question is about Joe Prince
played the UK very successful coach at Owensboro, and I
just wondered how much of the things that Joe did
still impact your program and are still part of Red
Devil Football.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Well, so, Joe's the only coach I've ever worked for.
I mean I when I when I was finishing up college,
I got my student teaching placement here at Owensborough High School.
I was a little nervous about it at first because
I'd never had done all my practicing and all my
observations at different schools. Here, I just didn't know much
about OHS. But it turned out to be one of
the greatest strokes of fortune in my life because shortly
(19:23):
after getting here, through some mutual friends, I was introduced
to Coach Prince that spring and he hired me. And
it would be hard for me to separate and even
sort of look through and sift through and think of
all the things that I do that I learned from Joe.
I mean, probably if you were here the first couple
(19:46):
of years, nearly everything. I'm sure as the years have
gone by, developed a little bit more of a philosophy
of my own. But Joe's it's almost like a second
father to me, and taught me so much about the game,
and as I thought about it, if I to kind
of distill it down to just a few things that
I think we've really kept alive that were a big
part of Joe's philosophy was I think it's really important
(20:08):
no matter where you are, but especially when you're in
a place like Owensboro, to keep to teach your players
about the history and the tradition of the program. It matters.
And a couple of weeks ago, we had the fiftyth
re union for the nineteen seventy four state championship team,
and we were able to talk to the guys about
I mean, we had like thirty members of that team,
(20:29):
guys that are in their sixties and some coaches that
are in their eighties back and I think it's good
to show the current guys like this, it matters. It
matters to play football here. It still matters to these
guys all these years later. And then last week was
Henderson Week, and we talked to him about, you know,
we've been playing this game against Henderson. It's the third
oldest rivalry in the state of Kentucky. They've been playing
this game for so long that when they first started
(20:51):
playing it. The players walked to the train station, got
on a train, rode over to Henderson with their helmet
folded up in their back pocket, and walked to Hnderson
City High School at play. And I think we all
want to be all of us that appreciate team sports
want to be a part of something bigger than ourselves.
And I think that that's not only this year's team,
(21:13):
but also being a part of something that's been around
for so long it's special. And Joe was great about that.
And I can remember being a young coach and he
would be telling some story and I'd be standing there, thinking,
these kids don't care about this, you know, team that played,
But they do. They really do at the end of
the day, and it's something that sticks with them. And
then something else that he taught me that I would
(21:34):
sort of roll my eyes and eyes at when I
was twenty three years old and was sure I knew
everything he taught He taught all of us is the
importance of the often overlooked phase of the game and
special teams. I mean we I cannot tell you how
many times over the years we've won a big game
and I can point to a special teams play that
(21:54):
wanted for us or turned the momentum of the game,
whether it was a blocked punt or a kick turned
for a touchdown or fake punt converted for a first down.
And we would invest so much time in special teams
when Joe was the head coach, and and I just
learned that from him, that that there are a lot
of there are going to be a lot of games
(22:15):
where if you'll put the work in in special teams
and invest in it, you're gonna give yourself a huge
edge and advantage. And so and just putting the work in,
I mean Joe, Joe believed in it, you know, in
his heart and soul. He was he was in the
office and he was working and putting in the work,
and it mattered so much to him to try to
do a good job. And so just a lot, I
would say, a whole lot of things that I learned
(22:36):
from Joe are still very formative in what we do today.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You know, A one of my one of my connections
to Joe Prince, Jim McKee sometimes will say the only
people that will answer the phone when he calls, or
me or Joe Prince, that's it.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
H Yeah, Jim and I talk a lot too, so
he may be uh, you know, I might be the
third one on that. You're you're the third, You're We
always Joe. We always joke Jeff and I and did.
It seems every year there are fewer and fewer members
of the staff that were around when Joe was here.
But we always joked that if you're gonna talk to Joe,
which we all do a lot, but you better have
two or three hours, you better have a window heyside
(23:12):
because it's gonna be a long conversation.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Hey, were you there when we had the clinic there
with it was Mason County, Owensboro and Scott County and
we had like a foot of snow in Owensboro. Were
you there on the staff then? That was just before
my time my first year. I came and spoke at
Mason County High School.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, you you were? It was you guys. And Larry
French was there, Larry, Uh, it was it was so
nice and those old Hog Heaven days and those uh
and those clinic days. It was nice to be around
Larry French and Jim McKee because it was nice to
have somebody that would kind of bust Joe's chops too.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You know, hey, we got down there. We had a
foot of snow, and my staff is looking at me
like what have you done to us? Because it's like
we have driven four hours from home and we're in
a foot of snow and we're at a coach's clinic.
But you know, you know, like talking about Joe and
Jim and all of us, it's like, that's sort of
(24:07):
what we do. It's like, Okay, it's gonna snow afoot.
We got a clinic this weekend. We told them we're coming.
We're speaking, We're going to the clinic. If snow, they'll
straight the road and then we'll go somewhere.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
So but one of the neat things I remember about
that clinic, and I was just young and just happy
to be there. I mean, I remember, you remember what
it's like when you're brand new coach. I was just
happy to be there and had my owns bro stuff on.
And when you go to these coach of the Year clinics,
which there's I enjoy that too. And you're listening to
an SEC defensive coordinator talking about the seventeen checks he
(24:42):
has for his kid based on what formation, and you're
sitting there thinking this is great, but I'm not sure
it's super applicable to high school football. With those clinics,
it was great because we didn't play each other, so
nobody was worried about giving away trade secrets. And it
was really just high school football coaches talking about how
they handle problems. And it was everything from protecting against
(25:03):
a three three stack to how you handle an angry parent.
And I learned a ton at those clinics.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
You know. Last thing about those clinics, the one in Maswell,
Jim McKee and Jeffries stayed at my house and I'd
just been talking about that and how hey, if you
quit your senior you turned your pride gear from your
freshman year. So Jim gets up to speak on Saturday.
He says, yeah, he said, I was staying at David's
house last night a forty year old man showed up
(25:30):
to turn in his pride gear.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
I can't wish I could tell some I wish I
could tell some McKey stories from hog Heaven, but better not,
I know, trying to pick them GM rating.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But yeah, man, I'm glad you brought that up because
those were those were great days really, to be quite
honest with you. I think that's one of the reasons
I can't give this up. I just I don't want
to give up those days. Those were the best days.
And that's why I think when I finally can't coach anymore,
this podcast is really going to fill that void because
(26:03):
I feel like like we're talking to you tonight, you know,
we're we're sort of getting to rehash and relive a
lot of things that make us love coaching high school football.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
The camaraderie of playing, and then when you're done playing,
at least in my experience, you think where am I
going to find that? And then you get in the
coach's office and the camaraderie that's a part of the
coach's office and that you still have with the guys
on the team. I don't know how how we'll duplicate
it whenever it's over. I mean, it's a special thing
(26:33):
to be a part of, and I think it'll be
hard to find in life after that. And it's just
unbelievably awesome memories. Yeah, it's facial stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Well a coach, thank you, and you did a phenomenal job.
It was great to have.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You appreciate the opportunity, guys, and take care and best
of luck to you guys.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
If a head football coach loses his staff, can he
get them back?
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Who?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
You know what, here's the thing about these tough topics.
They give you a truer picture of the stuff you
gotta deal with. It really does. And this is a
hard one now, And here's here's where I'm going to
go with this one. I really I don't think I've
ever lost the staff, and I don't think I've really
heard of a lot of this happening. I guess it does.
(27:21):
But but I did go back to this. I remember
there was a night it was an away game, and
the bulk of my staff was fired up, mad at me,
and we had won, but they still there are some
things they weren't real happy about. And so we got
home and we went in the office and we talked
(27:45):
until we sort of came to an understanding, I guess
is the best way to put it. And and you know, uh,
these are all guys that I mean, these are my
best friends still, they're my family. There are guys I
love very much. I see and talk to them a
lot still, even though we're not coaching together. And I
(28:08):
just I think, you know, I look at this question
and I think about last week's question about the administrator
and you know, dealing with the head coach and a
complaint all that kind of stuff, and I just go,
I tell you what. On the front end, I just
I don't think there's any substitute. And you've got to
(28:29):
hire great people. And I think you'd be better off
as a head coach to coach a team by yourself
than to hire somebody that's you know, maybe doesn't want
to do what you want to do, or maybe they're
not a good guy, or I mean, it's just it's
just really tough. And so can a head coach get
(28:51):
his staff back? I would say probably the answer is yes.
I would think it would be incredibly difficult, but I
think it's going to take a lot of communication. And
I think if you feel like you've lost your staff
as a head coach, I think he might not have
stepped back and say did I hire the right people
for these roles? And you know, here's the other part
(29:12):
of all of this. At the end of the day,
if the head coach made poor hires, that's the head
coach's fault. That's his fault. And at the end of
the day, if you're going to be the head coach,
you have to own what happens in your program, even
if it's bad, even if you want to say it
(29:32):
wasn't my control or this or that. At the end
of the day, you've put people in these roles and
so you know what, if it doesn't work out, look
in the mirror. And you know, and I would add this,
if you don't want to look in the mirror and
you don't want to own it, you don't need to
be a head coach. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Well, I mean, I agree with what you said. I
here's what I thought. Here's what I put it. If
the coach lost him in the first place, that it
tells me that he did a poor job initially of
getting them all on the same page from the very beginning.
You know, maybe he lost them because he never had it,
(30:12):
you know. And hiring a staff is critical to the
success of a head football coach. During the interview process,
I think it's more important than the knowledge then there
that than the guy you're interviewing then their knowledge is
to make sure that his philosophy is similar to yours
(30:35):
and that his personality fits in your coach's office, because
that's really important. He's got to be able to get
along with the other coaches. His personality is going to
have to fit in there, and uh, his his philosophy
needs to be similar to yours or or there's probably
one to be problems. Staff chemistry is just critical to
(30:56):
the success of the program. Uh. And as you said,
I say the same thing. I would rather do it
myself or be short staffed then to have a disloyal
assistant coach on my staff. It did happen to me once.
The assistant coach he thought I was too hard on
(31:16):
the kids. And it was at a time when we
weren't having success. That's when everything is bigger, and bigger
is when you're not having success. Then it seems like
that's when everybody you know or everything just this kind
of uh, you know, it just becomes bigger. Anyway, we
(31:38):
weren't having a success, so you know, it made it worse.
So we agreed that we needed to go, that he
needed to go. You know, we parted ways, and he did.
He didn't he didn't share my philosophy. He didn't share
he didn't have we didn't have the same philosophy. So
It doesn't mean that my philosophy is right and his
(32:00):
philosophy was wrong. It just means that I'm the head
football coach and it has to be my way, you know,
because that's I'm the one in charge. You know, My
my neck is on the line.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
If you don't have a if you don't have staff chemistry,
then from one or more of your assistants, or one
or more of your assistants are disloyal to you, then
you're really in trouble. And I think you have to
try to rectify it, rectify the relationship. Maybe meet with
(32:36):
that coach individually and try to rectify the situation. Maybe maybe,
you know, try to work through it and see if
y'all can get on the same page, see if it's
any possibility that you can get on the same page.
If you can't amend you know, the problem, and and
and amend the relationship, then you need to terminate his contract,
(33:00):
even if it's mid season, even if it's right then
and there, because if you don't, and your contract is
the one that's eventually going to be terminated, because you're
never going to be having any success if you have
disloyal coaches on your staff. My advice to this question,
to this coach on this question to preventing this from happening,
(33:24):
is it's really essential that you start every season, every
season reviewing and emphasizing the expectations of your staff and
their particular role. You know, you should have a meeting
for that. You know, this is the meeting. We're going
to have a meeting before practice official practice starts, and
this is what this meeting is going to be about.
(33:45):
It's going to be about my expectations for the assistant
coaches and your particular role that you know, I have
you assigned to for this year. You know, I think
Brandon my Son he does a great job with that.
He has meeting and he gets everybody on the same page.
It's it's really it's you know, it's really a good
(34:06):
a good meeting, and I think it's essential that you
do that. You got to have everybody on the same page. Hey,
my philosophy was this. I never really felt like assistant
coaches you know that they work for me. I didn't
like that term. I still don't like the term you
know you you know that you work for me, because
(34:28):
I don't believe that. I don't believe you work for me.
I believe, I believe you work, we work together. You
work with me, and I know someone has to be
in charge. I get that. You know the head football
coaches neck is the one that's on the line. I
get that. But you know you don't work for me.
You work with me.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I like that. That's uh, that's good stuff. And again
I think it's we got young coaches out there, especially
ones that want to be a head coach someday. I
just think it's it's so critical you get those right
pieces in place up front, and like you said with
(35:07):
your with your preseason meeting, make sure everybody knows sort
of what's coming down the road. So all right, so
let's get into our game of the week and picking
first round upsets. So what about you want me to
go first, or you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Tell it. I can go first, it doesn't matter. I
don't have any one seed and four seed. I don't
have any four seed upsetting a one seeds. But I
do have three that I think would be a three
seed upsetting the two seed because three of those and
(35:44):
and mine would be I'm picking Barron County to beat
Henderson County. I just think Barron County has got a
lot of momentum going. You know, Henderson County has been
up and down, not being very not being consualed. And
I think Barron County has been pretty consistent all all
year long and they've had a great year, and I
(36:06):
think they're going to take that momentum into the playoffs
and I think it could be an upset over Henderson County.
I picked Bullet East over Ballard. Bullet East is a
strong football program. Ballard hasn't had a great year. They've
been they've they've been inconsistent, up and down. I'm picking
Bullet East over Ballard. That's a three seed, beating the
(36:26):
two seed. And then I'm also going to pick Warren
East over John Harden. I think Warren East has got
some really good football players, and I think they're gonna
pull off, you know, beating John Harden, Who's who's a
two seed. Those are my upsets.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
What about you, Well, I don't know, I don't know.
I've got a I've got a three over a two,
which I'll be honest with you, I'm not real thrilled
to come forward with. And then I've actually think I've
got a four, maybe gonna get a warm I would
not be surprised to see North Laurel beat Montgomery County.
(37:04):
North Laurel's the fourth of Montgomery came in first in
their district. We just played Montgomery, and I tell you what,
give them credit. They played their butts off. They beat us,
They scored at the very end of the game, beat
us twenty to nineteen. They did a great job, and
I was impressed with the kids and their efforts. But
I do think though that North Laurel has played some
(37:27):
really good people with Pulaski in South and Southwestern.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
And.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I just I can see I can see North Laurel
getting that game so.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Good tis good? Texts Hey David, who's going to be
on our podcast next week?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Well, next week we will have Philip Hawkins from Brian's Station.
And I tell you, if you have been paying attention
in the playoffs, Philip has done an exceptional job. Brian's
Station is good, but they're a different level in November.
(38:10):
They really are. And I think I think Phillip's good
at that. And you know, Philip, I don't know if
anybody's been paying attention, but one of our ongoing themes
is being going with coach Kershner, and then Doug Charles
and Mike Salmon's and Jay Follen. I think we even
did this with coach borcher Is talking about are there
(38:31):
things you do different in the postseason that you've been
doing when the season started. And you know, I think
coach Hopkins is gonna be a good person to talk
about that because he there is a big difference in
Brian's station in season in November, There's no doubt about it.
I saw him play in the state championship last year,
and uh, I think he's gonna be a really good guest.
(38:52):
And then this is gonna be a good question, which
he When Jay was talking about Owensboro's history, it wasn't
that long ago that our historical segment was the Orangsboro
Henderson brawl that kept the sixty seven orainsbur A team
from winning a state title because they weren't allowed to
get in the playoffs. And I thought of Mac. I
(39:12):
wish I brought it up then, But Mac is giving
us our tough topic for the week, which is what
is the shelf life of a high school or a
college football coach? And Mac being Mac, I think that
is a great question. And and I mean and that's
(39:33):
that's something you and I have talked about and I've
even I've even heard I won't get into it now,
I've heard three numbers for what your shelf life is
as a head coach. I've heard three. So we'll hash
that out and uh, I'm looking forward to it. But uh,
you know, Max always got I tell you what Mac.
You know, we go back to high school together. We're
(39:54):
at Mercer County High together. One of the things about
Mac that's always been true, He's he's got a he's
got an ability. He can just look at he just
looks at things differently. He just does He's he's got
a different approach. And I really like that about him.
And I'm really glad he's part of our podcast. And
I'll let you talk about the historical segment you gotta get.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, just make sure you hang on and listen to
that historical segment. It's really good. As David said, uh
not does it every week and it's it's super We
appreciate you guys listening and tuning in. Look forward to
next week.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
Sports, and in particular, high school sports, are woven into
the fabric of Americana. High school sports are part of
the DNA of communities across the country, and that is
certainly true in Kentucky. Fans know the stories of the
big names, but there are many names and many stories
that have been lost to history. This series highlights those
(41:01):
forgotten heroes. Welcome to this edition of Forgotten Heroes. I'm
your host, mack Yokum. We've all heard of the ripple effect,
you know, when an initial disturbance to a system goes
outward to disturb an increasingly larger part of the system,
just like ripples across water. Now what does that have
(41:22):
to do with our story. Well, if you'll go back
and listen to one of my older episodes, you can
learn about Kermit Williams from Frankfort High and how he
broke the color barrier at Frankfort in nineteen fifty six.
So here's the synopsis. In September nineteen fifty six, Kermit Williams,
an African American transfer student from the all black male
(41:44):
Wunderwood School, became the first African American athlete at Frankfort
High and with a cross burning on the hill over Sourfield,
Kermit scored two touchdowns to lead the Panthers to a
victory over mount Sterling and Life Magazine was in attendance,
documenting the event because it was so historic. Now, Kermit
(42:07):
put up big numbers running behind a good line anchored
by senner John Surgeon. John Sergeant was an intelligent student,
and he was intrigued by the plight of his new
teammate and the other Mayo Underwood transfer students, and he
quickly realized that the concept of separate but equal had
(42:28):
been very flawed. John learned that his new teammate and
the other Mayo Underwood students had never seen a science
lab or had an adequate library, and their math was
little more than basic algebra. That was a lesson that
John would always remember. In the fall of nineteen fifty nine,
(42:50):
John Sergeant entered Vanderbilt University and saw firsthand when Vanderbilt
University divinity student James Lawson was organizing nonviolent sit ins
to protest Nashville's segregation policies. John later said that it
gnawed away at him that he saw what was going
(43:11):
on and did nothing about it. Fast forward to the
fall of nineteen sixty one, John Sergeant was elected to
the Vanderbilt Student Senate, and he quickly proposed a bill
that would recommend to the Board of Trustees to desegregate
all of the schools at Vanderbilt, but the bill failed
by one vote. He then took the issue to a
(43:35):
vote of the entire student body, and again it failed,
this time by two hundred votes. John Surgeon and his
friend future Tennessee Governor and Senator Lamar Alexander were not
to be deterred. They went straight to the top. They
went to Harold Vanderbilt himself and Chancellor Harvey Branscombe, and
(43:56):
two months later, Vanderbilt University was desegregated, and in nineteen
sixty six, Vanderbilt had Perry Wallace take the basketball court
as the first African American basketball player in the Southeastern Conference.
So a ripple that started at Little Frankfort High School
(44:19):
when Kermit Williams transferred to play football and met his
new teammate, John Sergeant kept going until a university changed
his policies, and it kept going until an entire conference
was changed forever. Oh, and what happened to John Sergeant.
(44:39):
He went to med school at Vanderbilt and became doctor
John Sergeant. He spent his career at Vanderbilt in multiple roles.
He was Chief Medical Officer of the Vanderbilt Medical Group,
Senior Associate Dean for Clinical Affairs, vice chairman for Education Program,
director for the Residency Training Program, and A Rooumatology. Those
(45:01):
ripples just keep on going. You can find all the
Forgotten Heroes episodes at most podcast locations, including Spotify and iHeart.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
The Pretected cost said ptected from side to state. The
(46:22):
distinct practice st
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