coaches office podcast with our listener guests

In this episode, the coaches welcome 3 listeners to the show to ask the coaches questions directly.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Coach David Buchanan coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Welcome to the Coach's Office Behind the Scenes with Chuck
Smith and David Buchanan. This is season three, episode nine
for us.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
I'm Chuck Smith.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I'm joined by co host David Buchanan, podcast editor Flash
Storyback Tiller, Mike Yoakam, and our social media manager is
Noah King. Our YouTube version of this podcast is at
Tea Coops, So.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
You can access it on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Just go to at t copts dot C, dot O,
dot P and if you would if you got on there,
if you had hit like and subscribe, which is free
to do. It does help us out. Hey, what a
unique show we have for you tonight. We're trying something different.
It's very unique. We have listeners as guests and they

(01:37):
will be with us to ask you know, kind of
tough topic questions or listener questions questions that David and
I will can hopefully, you know, give some good feedback
on to our general audience of listeners. We have, you know,
we have excellent guests. The guest tonight will be Dan Brown.

(01:58):
Dan teaches at Valley Elementary School in West Virginia. He
I think he's a former football coach. We have Jesse Bacon,
who is the superintendent of schools in Bullet County, and
we have Chris Jones, who is a bank president in Lexington, Kentucky.
So we've got a great group of random professions as

(02:24):
our guest tonight.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
David, you want to bring him on?

Speaker 4 (02:26):
I really do, and I mean we're excited about this.
You know, Dan, Dane used to coach. One of my
favorite places to go was East Carter and I love
coaching in eastern Kentucky.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
There he goes, he's got his shirt on.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
Jesse was actually a student teacher for me and he
was excellent. Now, the tough part is is he took
everything I did and said I'm gonna do the opposite
the coach if you can, and that's why he's been
a big success. But Jesse was super and I tried
to get him in blue and white at Mason County.
There's no way his wife was going to let him

(03:02):
do that, but I tried. And then finally Chris Jones
from Lesington. Now he's an old Paris guy, and I
got to meet him through my wife Stephanie. Chris and
Stephanie and then Larry Harris. You know, I know that
Chuck knows All graduated in nineteen eighty eight at Paris.

(03:22):
And even though I'm a very anti social person, I
love the eighty eight reunions. Those guys are super to
me and I have a blast every time that I
get to go to the eighty eight Greyhound reunion. So ay, gentlemen,
We're so excited that you're here, and a thank you
for making time. If you would, I talked a little
bit about you, but why on each of you just

(03:44):
briefly just sort of introduce yourself and tell us what
you want us to know about you.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
Dan, I'll let you go first.

Speaker 6 (03:53):
Let's see.

Speaker 7 (03:54):
My name is Dan Brown. I am a career expert
teacher currently at Valley pKa here in West Virginia. Been
a well football coach. I'm still a football coach, even
though I'm not doing it this year. For probably fifteen years.

(04:14):
Majority of that was spent at East Carter in Grace
in Kentucky. Lots of great memories there. I got three
little girls who have my heart and that's been my
last year with them guys, So just trying to I
guess that's why I listen to this podcasts so I
can get a little bit of the coaches office.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
I really miss it.

Speaker 5 (04:35):
Hey deal, Hey Jesse, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 6 (04:40):
It's great being on with a couple of legends that
I have absolutely followed and looked up to most of
my life. So graduated from Flemy County High School, didn't
actually most of my teaching there and coaching as well,
coach football for eleven years. I miss it like crazy.
Like Dan, I'm a girl dad. I've got two girls.

(05:00):
My oldest is gonna be sixteen tomorrow, and that's tough
to take. I'm just gonna tell you, yeah, tell me.
The youngest as eleven, and we're on the go all
the time. Both of them are super involved in athletics.
In fact, we were playing travel softball all weekend this
last weekend in Laansville, Indiana. So even though I'm not

(05:22):
coaching anymore, I'm superintendent of Bully County Schools, and so
I've got three great high schools with three really solid
programs here in Bully County, and so you can catch
me on a sideline somewhere on Friday night. If it's
been my Washington Hill View or Shepherdsville, that's really where
I'm gonna be. So it's great to be here, and
I really appreciate the opportunity to be on.

Speaker 5 (05:41):
Hey, we're glad to have you. Chris, tell us about yourself.

Speaker 8 (05:44):
Yeah, I'm Chris Jones.

Speaker 9 (05:46):
As you mentioned, I'm a president and CEO of HSLC Bank.
We've got locations in Kentucky and in Ohio. I've been
been banking basically my whole career. I've been married for
thirty years to my wife Sean. We just celebrated our
thirtieth anniversary. And we've got two boys.

Speaker 8 (06:05):
Zach my oldest.

Speaker 9 (06:06):
He's a policy analyst with the House of Representatives in Frankfort.
My youngest, Staaten, he's a junior at Asbury University. And
so we're empty nesters, much like I think you are, David.
So we're actually liking that, we're you know, ready for
this next sphase and we're just enjoying life right now.

Speaker 7 (06:26):
So I think, Chuck, I'm gonna ask you how much
was film changed or how much has film changed for
everyone over the years with the invention of huddle, sideline,
i'pads and other new technology.

Speaker 6 (06:38):
So like, I've never not had huddle, so I was curious,
like what that was.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Like, Well, I've experienced coaching without huddle, and I tell
you it's been wonderful.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's probably saved a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Of marriages actually, because we used to have to get
in the car.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
On Saturday morning warnings.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
And I only experienced like one year of the sixteen millimeter,
you know, only I only had one year. After that
it was the you know, the VCRs and the tapes,
and so you know, we would have to get in
the car on Saturday morning and meet the opposing coach,
you know, at at a halfway point, and we would

(07:22):
we would swap those tapes out and we'd have to
come back. And most of the time, unless you had
a VCR in your house, then you'd have to go
over to the school because the school, of course had
a VCR and that's where you'd watch your film.

Speaker 3 (07:37):
And you know, with with huddle, I mean you'd do
it with the click of a button. And you can
work from home.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You could do all of your work, all your film work,
you can do just about everything. Practice schedules, share them
with your coaches, assistant coaches.

Speaker 6 (07:54):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
The technology has really honestly probably saved a lot of
marriage is because you know, the coach, the coach can
be at home a lot more than he could, you know,
prior to the huddle. And then uh, then the technology
that's on the field now is just unbelievable. With with
the iPads and the you know, the the instant feedback

(08:18):
on a play. You know, you can get that play
downloaded to an iPad and and view in between series,
you know what the other team was doing to you,
their actual routes, their actual blocking schemes. I mean, it is,
it is. It's taken the game to another level. In
my opinion, it's really improved coaching. Uh it's just if

(08:41):
you're not using that, then you're really getting behind.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
It's it's just a whole new.

Speaker 10 (08:46):
Level of of benefit for the coach, you know, and
it just makes the coach a lot better obviously, you know,
after you've seen it on film.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's the technology is unbelieve what. I think.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
It's been great for football. It's great for uh, the
you know, the excellence of football. I think it's made
everybody better coaches, and I think it's made everybody better teams.

Speaker 7 (09:14):
Can I can I do a follow up with that, like, yeah,
the little one. So do you ever foresee like referees
using instant replay to make the rock call on a
like a critical a critical play in the game. Because
last year in the three A state finals here in
West Virginia, there was a I'm pretty sure a touchdown

(09:35):
called back because of instant replay.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
And did the official look at it?

Speaker 7 (09:41):
Yeah, they went to the tent for probably three minutes
to watch it, watch it over and over again.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
And so you can do. You can do that in
West Virginia. That's legal to do.

Speaker 7 (09:52):
I think it's I think it's just that it was
just the state finals.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Oh really, I'm glad they did that.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
In Kentucky, they won't do it, as I've offered it
up several times on questionable calls, and uh, you know
you you get yelled at and and fussed that, Uh,
they won't do it.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Uh. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I think maybe maybe even the playoffs. I think that's
a great idea. Maybe you know, on a questionable call,
maybe have so media a game.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
Or what have you.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
I think it's a great idea. I wish we would
uh you know, considered it, consider doing it.

Speaker 7 (10:25):
I think some like critical points in the game, like
maybe like under two minutes before the half and two
minutes left in the game, maybe like a coach can
uh get charged to time out for a challenge or something.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (10:38):
Just that was I saw that last year and I
was like, I didn't think we could do that, but
I guess we can hear.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
So it was.

Speaker 9 (10:44):
It was.

Speaker 8 (10:44):
It was a cool thing.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, it is cool.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
I like it actually, you know, I do hope though,
going forward, Like I think back to the UK game
this past Saturday night and there were several calls that
had to be reviewed and unfortunately they were overturned.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
Because they were in correct calls.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
But I'm hoping that they get the technology even better
to where it is not such a drag on the
game because it just it really does at the at
the collegiate and NFL level, Man, it just it just
totally kills the momentum.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
It changes it.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
And hopefully that's gonna be another area where the technology
is going to catch up and and it'll get better. Chris,
You'll like this, Stephanie, I were talking about this the
other night. When I first started at Paris in the
early nineties and we were on the VHS and we
had that old TV that I got from my in
laws and ken't eve hardly. See, Hey, Chris, my goal,
you will love this. Our goal every Saturday was if

(11:40):
I can get my work done so we can go
to Ponderosa in Cynthiana.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
That was our big Saturday night back then.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
How's that? I know, Hey, it's crazy to go to
Ponderosa in Cynthiana.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
And if and if you work for Larry French, which
David and I both did, he was the head coach
at Mercer at it come Monday after practice, he didn't
like the tape we had, so he wants to drive
from Mercer.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
County to Bell County to get a tape, And.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Of course nobody wants him to go by hisself, so
I volunteered to go.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Now that's when you're really pushing it with your wife.

Speaker 5 (12:17):
You're pushing you know.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Chuck makes a good point though, because we had this
conversation Stephanie and I this weekend about how I mean,
it would have been so nice to have had huddle
when the kids were little. Yeah, because the weekends are
so much better now. I mean, you still have to work,
but but like Chuck says, you can work more from home.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
You can. It's more flexible.

Speaker 4 (12:44):
And man, there wasn't a whole lot of flexibility back
in the vhs and the I.

Speaker 5 (12:51):
Mean you had to try it.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Now the DVD's got a little better, but you still
had to drive and physically trade it.

Speaker 5 (12:57):
So it is a lot better.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, I mean it sounds I mean, I think
I think huddle is a is a really good thing
for a marriage.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
Absolutely. So hey, so dand what question you got from me?

Speaker 3 (13:12):
All right, coach?

Speaker 7 (13:15):
My next question was how much or what is one
bit of advice you've gotten that you've used to change
your program? So like, not something like big, but like
one little thing that you've got advice from somebody that
you just immediately changed your program because of it.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
Well, you know what, that's a really good question because
that's actually I'll bet you there's hundreds of things. If
I go back thirty two years, I'm gonna try to
hit some of the highlights. When I would visit Saint X,
their players were in charge of their dynamic warm up
when they started practice. I like that that's what we're

(13:55):
doing at Anderson County. I thought that was really good.
Visited the University of Kentucky last fall and I loved that.
On their scout team and on their inside drill, they
had different colored beanies for the different levels. The front
had one color, the linebackers had another, the secondary had another,
so you could quickly identify if you're not making a block,

(14:16):
this is where he came from, and you could pick
that out before he had to get to the video.
Just was a lot cleaner to see it. And then
you know, I'm gonna bring up Brandon Smith. First time ever,
we are doing our entire pregame without shoulder pass. But
before I did that, I called Brandon and talked to
him about it. And what's interesting is, so we go

(14:37):
to South Oldham and it's raining, and I'm thinking the
kids probably want to put on their jersey or the show,
but they're like, now, Coach, we it's our pride shirt.
You know, it's just a dry fit, sleeveless shirt. Like
coach always want to do it. So those are three
small examples. But I just think I just think as
a coach, and I think I'm sensitive about this because
I'm old. I'm trying to be really good about listening

(15:00):
and adjusting and changing and looking for new ideas.

Speaker 5 (15:05):
I'm probably more open to them.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Now than I have it in the past, just because
I'm sort of scared to death of even though my
family still says that, my coaches said, I'm scared to
death of being stubborn and not changing, and a lot
of people would laugh at that and say, you're incredibly
stubborn and you're still running.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
Twenty five blasts, and I, you know, I get that,
but I'm.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Really I'm really sort of looking for things and I
want to do things different. A truck stick our weight
program is totally different. I don't know if it's totally
but the approach is different. And I got that from
coach Meacham and Andersy kind of really good for us.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
And I'm almost sort of looking now.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
For ways to do things differently, just because I don't
want to be that guy that says, Hey, this is
what we've done for forty years and that's what we're
gonna do.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
I do not want to be that guy, and I
think it's bad news if you are that guy.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
I think it's gonna be hard to be successful. I
think you better be open to listening. And I think
the biggest mistake you can make is you think you're
the smartest guy in the room. That's well, you asking
for trouble then, in my opinion, So what was that
what you were looking for?

Speaker 7 (16:19):
Yeah, coach, I really I really like those like the
the not wearing shoulder pans. That's It's such a little thing,
but it means so much to those guys they want
to you know, I.

Speaker 5 (16:31):
Tell you what.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Early in the season, heat is a big issue, and
heat leads to fatigue. Fatigue leads to injury, and the
longer I can keep their body temperatures cooler, I just
I think, I mean, it's a safety issue, but I
also think that it's a competitive issue. And I think
we've I mean especially compared to the season before. I

(16:55):
think we've played well early and we still got to
get a lot better, but our guys do seem to
have a little more bounce and a little more peppinger
step when we start, and you know.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
I think it's been good for us.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
So but hey, I appreciate you, ay chugging thing you
want to add to that, you.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Know, the biggest, the most important piece of advice I've
ever gotten that really changed my entire coaching career came
from my wife, believe it or not.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And you know, I was.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Probably about fifteen sixteen years in being a head coach,
and I got to the point where I was obsessed
with winning the state championship. I mean, I'd go to
the state championship games every single year. I'd sit in
the stands. I would sit there and I'd say, man,
if I had that talent, if I had this talent.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I know i'd be there.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
I was just wishing for things I didn't have, and
so I was complaining about it. One night, you know,
when we were going to bed, and my wife and
I were in bed, and I was complaining about, you know,
I don't have this, I don't have that. If I
had this, if I had that, and she finally said,
you know, if you had just quit whining and complaining

(18:08):
about what you don't have and start putting all that
energy and attention into what you do have said you.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Might you might find it might be different.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
And so, you know, of course I got mad and
snapped at her, and you know, she stapped back and
all that stuff. But when I laid there after after
she said that, and I started to think about it,
I said, she's really right, She's she's so right, And
so it really changed my whole entire approach to coaching.
I started, I put a plan together. You know, I

(18:41):
was going to work the elementary schools. I was going
to work to middle schools. I was going to spend
more time there. I was going to spend more I
changed my off season program into developing kids, you know,
developing techniques, developing skills, and and so I changed everything
about the way I was coaching.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
And and you know, and I followed that plan to
a t.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
And you know, a couple of years after that, you know,
we went on like a six year run when we
made it to the state championship game.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Uh, six straight years one five of them, you know.
And really and truly.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
It was it was because of her advice, because she
was tired of me, you know, whining and complaining about
what I didn't have, and just say, you know, she's right,
I need I need to focus on what I do
have and put my energy there. And I think it, really,
I think it changed everything about the way I coach.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
And I want to piggyback off of that because I
think I think a lot of the best things if
I just I mean, Chuck will tell me, David, you're
better off when.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
You listen to Stephanie and do what she says.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
And I do think though that I think our wives
really understand a lot more about this than people realize.
And a lot of times the best thing I can
do is do what she said. And I mean, Jackie's awesome.
I mean, I'm you know that that's that makes a
lot of sense. So man, I appreciate you sharing that.

(20:08):
A whole brother coaches lives. Will you know, be encouraged
by that. So hey, Chris, Hey, so let's go on. Hey,
I'm gonna I'll let since I did that other one,
I'm gonna let I'll let Chuck do this one.

Speaker 9 (20:21):
First.

Speaker 5 (20:22):
Why don't you read the question. I'll let Chuck go.
Then I'll go me.

Speaker 8 (20:25):
You want me to go ahead?

Speaker 5 (20:27):
Go ahead, Chris.

Speaker 9 (20:28):
Well, first, I want to say, Chuck, I think that
advice there that transcends football. I think that is that's
good advice, no matter what your field is. So I
appreciate that answer. And and when David posted, you know,
looking for questions, you know I'm not a football coach.

Speaker 8 (20:46):
You know, I'm not involved in that way, but a
huge fan.

Speaker 9 (20:49):
And but I do consider myself a kind of a
student of leadership, a student of leadership development and developing people.
And you know, in the business community, we're struggling out here,
you know, where you know, I go through dozens and
dozens of interviews to find one person you know, that's
gonna fit that I believe is gonna be a hard worker,

(21:10):
that's gonna fit our culture, you know. So my question is,
I'm sure that that relates to football.

Speaker 8 (21:18):
I believe kids are different.

Speaker 9 (21:19):
The kids I see, the young people that I interview,
they seem different from when.

Speaker 8 (21:24):
I was, uh that age.

Speaker 9 (21:26):
And so how do you guys deal with you know,
the lack of motivation or the lack of pride, or
the lack of desire. You know, how do you how
do you get over that hump and make it work.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
I think that's a great question. When I read your question,
uh before, I thought it was a great question.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
It is an issue.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
I think it's a big issue, and it comes from
the you know, today's world, the environment in which they're raised,
and honestly, you know, the schools their self and Jesse
can chime in on this too if he wants to.
But the schools really can't help them with all of
their issues because of all of the red tape and
and laws and stuff like.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
That that they have to deal with. So thank God
for football.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Thank God for sports, because sports and and and especially football,
that's you know, of course, that's that's that's that's what
I coach, and that's what I've coached and and and
that's what I feel strong about. But you know, it's
able to teach them, uh you know what they aren't getting,
you know, every everywhere else anywhere else. And you know,

(22:32):
I think that you know, in in in sports in general,
but in football from my perspective, you know, they learn
how to work together, you know, like like they're going
to have to, you know, in the workforce or even
in a marriage, they're gonna have to learn to work together.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
They're going to have to learn.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
How to set goals and manage their time and work hard,
like they're going to have to in the workforce, and
even in a marriage.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
You know, they're going to have to, you know, learn
how to.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
You know, handle pressure, you know, like they're going to
have to in the workforce and in a marriage, and
they're going to have to learn how to take orders
and handle constructive criticism, you know, like they're going to
have to in the workforce and and in a marriage.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
You know, I have to in a marriage.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
But uh, I think that uh I think that you know,
sports teaches them that that. I don't think they you know,
in some some in the environment that they're raised. It's
a day's world where everybody gets a trophy.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
A lot of those you.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Know, characteristics and points aren't being taught other where, other
other places than the football field or the basketball court
or what have you.

Speaker 9 (23:53):
But do you have those issues on the football field, uh?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
You know, pretty much pretty much u uh as a
whole on the football field, those kinds of things are
you know, when they when they join the football team,
they know they're joining the team, and a lot they
know up front that a lot of those things aren't tolerated.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
You have an isolated.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Case here or there, but you don't have it. You know,
everybody that's on the football team is going to follow
the rules. You know, they're they're going They're going to
because of the peer pressure. They're going to because of
the expectation of the coach. So I think there are
isolated cases, but you don't have it as a whole.
It's it's a it's it's weeded out, it's eliminated. And

(24:39):
and again, I you know, thank god we have sports
in today's world because they're able to teach those things
that I don't think they can find anywhere else. You know,
they're they're most of them are not getting it at home.
The school's hands are tied all the time.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
You know, they can't. I don't think they can handle
all of the issues because because of the rid take
and cut the laws and their hands being tied.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
I think it has to be handled or is being
handled right now in the sporting world.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, And I don't want to piggyback off that a
little bit, you know, to make Chuck's point about how
football is different. You know, Jesse, I got my principal
certificate in nineteen ninety six. Nineteen ninety six, I got
my principal certificate. I've never been a principal. I've not
done it for a day other than fill in if

(25:29):
my bosses they're gone or something like that. And a
lot of it goes back to what Chuck just talked about.
Which is in football you can sort of really make
it be the way you want. And you can do
that with kids too. I do better with kids than
I do adults. And now I will say this back

(25:50):
back to your original question, do I think that that's
a problem. I think there's fewer and fewer kids that
will accept the structure in demands of football than maybe
they did in the past. You know, like old Paris
High class A school, eighty kids on the football team.
You know, I'm in a five A school and I

(26:11):
think I counted today we got sixty three. I mean
by comparison to the three A school at Mercer the
last two years we were at seventy, and so I
think this, I think my sixty three now that we
got our problems, and I mean, and we have things
that we had to deal with.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
It's not like there's not things to deal with.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
But I do think though that for the most part,
those sixty three kids sort of accept, hey, look, this
is how it's going to be, and you know, they
just sort of know that that's what it's going to
be like. So, you know, I mean, I'm sort of
glad I'm at a school that's a bigger school, so
that I've got sixty three. I mean, if I were

(26:52):
at a smaller school these days, I don't I don't know.
I mean, I think it'd be a whole lot tougher
to get them. And I mean, I'm sympathetic to to
what you're what you're dealing with, because what you're dealing
with is more in my world.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
Finding assistant coaches.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
That's what I have to deal with in my world
that you're dealing with, and man, it is super hard.
And I will share this, This is a conversation that
Chuck and I have had frequently.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
I think you now in in the makeup of today,
I don't know how many guys you.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
Get that are really ready to be assistant coaches. You've
got to get a guy that loves kids, loves football.
Now you're going to have to develop that kid. And
so I would almost encourage you to find somebody that's
got character, find somebody that you think has got potential.
But then I think I just think that your development

(27:51):
piece is probably really going to have to grow U
And I think it goes back to what Chuck said,
you know, uh, And I'm I'm not saying this as
a slam on public schools. I think public schools are
full of people that love kids, that are jumping through
an incredible amount of hoops to love kids and help them.

(28:13):
You know, when all of us went to school, school
is where we got our education. Right now, there's a
lot of kids and I'm not blaming the kids. Okay,
I'm not blaming the kids, but right now, a lot
of our schools they're not providing an education. They're providing
an education and raising children. That's what they're doing, and

(28:34):
that's that is. That's like when people get mad about
something that happens in a public school, I'm like, well,
if you ask the public school to do everything, they're
probably going to mess up, because the more things you do,
the more chances you're going to have to mess up.
So I don't know if we're answering your question or not,
but I think I think you're gonna have to try
to find people and take an approach of maybe I

(28:56):
can develop them. And I don't know if I don't
know if that helps or not, but that's how I
would look at I like that.

Speaker 9 (29:05):
I think the similarity is you set it in. You know,
you've got sixty three kids at A three A school,
you know, and we used to dress out eighty or
eighty five at Paris with you know kids in the
building five I think it's five A five.

Speaker 4 (29:19):
We got sixty three okay, yeah, but yeah, you know
the kids that don't.

Speaker 9 (29:25):
It seems the the young people that I'm interviewing are
not the people then that are showing up to want
to play football.

Speaker 8 (29:32):
You know, it's there. You know, you said there.

Speaker 9 (29:35):
You know, they know they have to be you know,
when I have kids show up in pajama pants, you know,
for an interview in a bank, you know, I'm thinking,
what's going on here? You know, you know, and they're
they're looking for five weeks of vacation and you know,
want to make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to
be a teller.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
You know.

Speaker 9 (29:55):
It's that it does spit our culture, you know. Uh so, well,
it's I think that's where the disconnect is. You know,
I think that's where we're similar. You're just you're getting
the kids that want to be there, that have that pride,
that have.

Speaker 5 (30:08):
That motivation, you know, and there go ahead.

Speaker 6 (30:15):
I'm sorry, yeah, no, if I can from from a
school leadership perspective and what Chuck said is spot on.
And I think we have a little bit of a
responsibility as a public education institution too to take a
good look at ourselves in the mirror. And I think
that's one of the things we're trying to do because
when we talk to business leaders like Chris, we talk
to parents, we talk to university folks, and we ask

(30:36):
them what do you need from our kids? And they
need those things exactly as Chuck described it. We need
people that can communicate, We need people that can think critically.
We need people that are self directed, that want to
be a part of a larger community, that know how
to be a part of a team and know what
it's like to be counted on and to count on others.
And in a traditional educational city cannot provide all those

(30:57):
things and and still teach standards in a way that
kids are going to perform well academically, and so we
have to provide other experiences for kids to develop in
those spaces. And that's why I think extracurriculars, athletics, clubs, organizations,
even you know, art and theater and anything that we
can get kids involved in, it's going to give them

(31:19):
that type of connection to the school community and teach
those skills through participation in those things we have to
do more of. And that's why you look at some
of the things that we're doing in and investing in
our athletic programs, it's because we want kids to have
those experience to help make them well rounded individuals. I
can tell you right now, I'm the person who I
am today a ad great parents, that's first and foremost,

(31:42):
But be I had great coaches and mentors that taught
me what it was what it was like to be
a part of something bigger than myself, and I think
that is really where we missed the mark over the
last several years in public education and why we have
to get back to doing everything that we possibly can
to provide kids to have opportunities to participate in things

(32:04):
like this where they can grow and develop in those areas.
And football is the ultimate team sport and the ultimate
place where I think you can develop those types of
experiences and those competencies and kids. And that's why this
is so important. And at the end of the day,
we all want to win, right Everybody wants to win
a state championship. Everybody wants to be playing on that
you know that first week ind in December and Licenson.

(32:25):
But at the end of the day, we're also doing
our part to help better our local, our community by
putting kids through our programs and through programs like what
David run, like what Chuck Bryns and so many other
coaches across the Commonwealth run, because it's creating the leaders
that we want for our communities. And that's why it's
so important. And that's what we have to get people
at the local level and understand.

Speaker 8 (32:47):
Yeah, and I would say that's the same too.

Speaker 9 (32:49):
You know, we had you know, David knows my high
school principle is legend about motivating folks, you know, and
whether you played football or you know, you whatever, you know,
if you were the guy smoking behind the gym, he
found a way to motivate you and move it.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, Chris, maybe one of your questions needs to be
did you play high school athletics?

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Might be then you can develop that person.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
All right, Well, hey, Jesse, you've got the last question,
so go ahead and ask it. And uh, I'll take
this one first and then let Chuck pick my answer apart.

Speaker 6 (33:31):
Sure, So, what are.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
The things I really missed about about coaching?

Speaker 6 (33:36):
It's such a brotherhood, uh, and it's it's a it's
a fraternity, and you have you build relationships with coach
people that you coach with and coach against. That's unlike
really anything else in our world. And I think the
I think the talent level and the level of football
in our state is probably better than it's ever been.
And I think a lot of that has to do with, uh,

(33:56):
the mentorship that you know, more veteran in season coaches
have done to younger coaches. I'm seeing at firsthand at
Bullet East right now with Kegan and the things that
he's doing with our program. And I know he came
from you know, from Chuck and that tree and all
the things that he learned from you. And so my
question is, you know, how can more veteran seasoned coaches

(34:16):
help our younger coaches not only survive but thrive so
that we could continue building a level of football that
we're seeing right now in Kentucky, which I think is
only getting strong.

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of facets
to that question, and I'll try to just hit a few,
and I'd say Chuck will probably have five totally different things,
you know, when Chuck and I were working for Larry French,
I mean we sort of wear his shadow.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
And I think one thing.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
An older coach can do is let that young coach
see and experience as much as possible. You know, if
you got the re conditioning guy, come in, Hey, come
in here, and I want.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
You to see how this works. I think delegating is
a big deal.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
I really like to tell my guys this, say, look,
you see an idea, you want to pursue something, go
pursue it. I'd rather have to tell you no and
tell you to back up than have to push you
to initiate everything. I would rather have a coach make
a mistake and then say, hey, we got to try
something else, to be sitting there looking at me, waiting

(35:24):
for me to.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Tell them everything that they've got to do.

Speaker 4 (35:27):
I know this will sound funny, but something that meant
a lot to me, and I'll try to do too.
And I think you got to take those guys out
and feed them a meal every now and then. I mean,
I know that sounds silly, but I think that you've
got to have that time with them. I mean you
got to help them. Hey, when I was a young coach,
I would have a cereal A lot of nights. A

(35:50):
good night was a ninety nine cent Totino's pizza. I mean,
I'm just telling that's what it was like. So it's like,
man by the poor guy decent meal, let and let
him have something to eat. And uh, I know that
sounds sort of silly, but I think stuff like that
is good. I think having a meal, fellowship, trying to

(36:10):
be people other than we're just always coaching.

Speaker 9 (36:13):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
And then and I think another thing is constructive feedback,
you know, telling them say, okay, look this part was good. Hey,
this is something you need to address. You need to
fix this.

Speaker 5 (36:26):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
And I sort of like to do this is put
it on them, say how how are you gonna fix it?
And then if they need some help fixing it, then
I want to help them.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
But that was one thing. And you know, I had two.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
Bosses, Larry French and Roger Gganizing, and they both really
sort of turned you loose. They let you do your
thing and if they had to rain you in, they did.
But I liked it that I felt like I was
I was free to be me. And then if I
if I overstepped my bounds coach incher Roger.

Speaker 5 (37:00):
They pulled me right back as David, No, no, no,
we got to do this. But I like that.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
So I think you gotta let those guys start becoming themselves.
And uh, I think you got to push them because
you get you got to try to let them do
as many head coach things before they're the head coach
and they and then they can actually build real experience.
So again, I can ramble all night about that one.
I'm gonna let Chuck clean up my answer and his

(37:28):
will be better at mine.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Go ahead, Chuck, Well, David did a really good job
with that.

Speaker 8 (37:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
I don't really have a lot to add. You know,
I always like to let the guys you know, do
their thing.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
You know, I never tried to hold them back. We
we we talked about.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
A lot of things before we went to the field,
about how I thought it should be done, and then
we get when we get to the field and they
get to their position. I always said, you will be
the head coach of your position and you take it
from there. And uh, if you get if you run
into a problem, you know, you know, feel free to
to lean on me. If I see a problem. Then

(38:05):
you and I'll discuss it and you know we can,
uh we can work through it together and to.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Get the goal that we wanted.

Speaker 11 (38:12):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
So David did a good job with that.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
I always advice I always gave them too, is you know,
put everything you have into the job that you have.
You know, don't be spending your time looking for your
next job. You know, coach the job that you have,
like it's the last job you're ever going to have.
And I think those guys, those are the guys I
really like, those are the guys who you know, just

(38:36):
you know, you don't you don't have to tell them
everything to do. You know, if they're coaching, you know,
for the right reasons, then uh they see things you know,
developing that they need to address and take care of
before it ever gets to be a problem.

Speaker 5 (38:53):
You know that.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
You know that I told them to coach to have
an impact on on on kids and young people and uh,
you know, be a role model, teach them you know
about character, uh, dedication, committing it, hard work, help prepare them,
you know, for this real world. And I said, if
you do all those things right there, you're going to
be a good teach. You're going to be a good coach,

(39:15):
you know. And I always tell them too if if
they were, if they were a good coach, there's no
reason why you can't be a good teacher, because it's
the same. And I said, if you if you're not
a good teacher, then you've chosen not to be a
good teacher. You don't you have the skills to be
a good teacher, because if you're a good coach, because

(39:36):
it's all about teaching and communicating and get that kid
to buy into what you're what you're telling them, and
and sell what you're telling them. And you know, so
if you if you're not a good teacher, then I
used to tell the assistant coaches all the time, I said,
you you've chosen not to be a good teacher.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
There's no reason why you can't be.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
That's pretty good. So I went whether it's taking notes
because I'm going to use that in my position right
now coaching administrator, the teachers that I get to do
with because it's like.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
What you said, great leadership is great leadership. It could
be applied across the board. And some of the best
leaders we have across the state are are better coaches,
and so I think we can learn a lot from
you guys, for sure.

Speaker 9 (40:20):
Well, I like to kind of piggingback on what David said.
I was interviewed a couple of weeks ago and was
asked about kind of my leadership style and different things,
and you know, I said, I give our people. I
believe success and failure is a place to learn. You know,
we give our people the opportunity to be rewarded when
they succeed, but we also give them room to grow

(40:40):
when they fail. You know, it's all about building that
person and getting behind them and lifting them up. And
I think that's a lot of what David just kind
of spoke to me.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
You know, I think all of us in our roles,
the DC is South Warren superintendent, bank president, teaching in
the classroom. And I like what Chuck said about a
be where you are and quit worrying about the next job.
Why can't all four of us tomorrow go to our
place of work and be elite. Jesse doesn't have to

(41:13):
be the president of Harvard to be an elite school
leader tomorrow. He doesn't have to do that. He can
be incredibly elite, phenomenal. He can kill it tomorrow with
Bullock County schools, and I think for all of us,
and you know, man, I'm gonna get wound up here
a little bit. I got to talk to the kids

(41:33):
about this the other day and we're talking about Abbey Roads.
You know, the Beatles were phenomenal, but the Beatles, the
second side of Abbey Road is incredible. The very last
thing the Beatles did was incredible work.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
It was phenomenal. Listen to side too of Abbey Road.
It's crazy.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Good, guys, all four of us tomorrow can go do
our Abbey Road. We can go out there tomorrow, whether
it's in the classroom, on the field, at the bank,
in the central office, we can all go do our
Abbey Road tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (42:08):
We can all go be our best version of ourselves.

Speaker 11 (42:11):
And my question is why wouldn't we? Yeah, why wouldn't we?
Why what's the point if we're not? And so, hey,
I'm going to Anderson County. I don't think ESPN is
going to be in our practice tomorrow, but I don't care.

Speaker 5 (42:26):
I don't care. I'm gonna be the best football coach
I've ever been in my life is going to be
on that practice field tomorrow. That's it.

Speaker 11 (42:36):
And you guys, turn me up.

Speaker 5 (42:42):
Somebody tell me. Here's my thing.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
When we get to the day that we don't have
our abbey roads tied to in us anymore, and we're
not gonna be abbey Roads side to I think it's
time to go to the house.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
I think it's time to go to the house.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
I just I'm like, okay, but I think while we're
in these roles, guys, but that's what I get excited about.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
And like Chuck said, none of us have to wait.
I'm getting getting whareled up. None of us have to
wait to get another job. Go be you tomorrow. Let's
do it.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Hey, guys, cannot appreciate you guys enough for being on
the show.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
You guys that were excellent.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
We made the show better and we really appreciate you
guys joining us.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah, you guys were You were super a Next week,
I tell you what you talk about. A guy that's
got big shoes to feel. Mike Kershner from Warren Central
and Indianapolis, y'all did a great job. He's gonna have
to bring his a game next week. Y'all did a
great job, and he's a heck of a coach. But man,
you guys have been super and and I'll speak for myself.

Speaker 5 (43:55):
I'm not gonna put words in Chuck's mouth, but I
think that you all took.

Speaker 4 (44:00):
Our idea for this episode and you knocked it out
of the part you guys, I appreciate.

Speaker 6 (44:09):
Super so, I really appreciate comportunity to be a part
of this. And uh, you know, just for all of
us guys who aren't are aren't grinding anymore like you are.
Thank you, Thank you for what you've done for uh,
for me personally, you know you got both of you
guys have had an impact on my career, whether you
know it or not. Chuck, watching you from afar and

(44:30):
and and David trying to beat you several years and
then learning from you a little bit was was you know,
I just look and see what you got doing. And
that is that the talk on leadership there at the
end is it really sums up you know, all the
things that that I have taken from you guys. So
you know what you've done for football in Kentucky and
for countless number of young people across the state. Thank

(44:53):
you so much. We appreciate you.

Speaker 5 (44:55):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Hey, Chuck, you want to do the Hey, I will
share this, and then Chuckle closes. Our tough topic next
week is anonymous from a school administrator. But listen, just
so nobody's wondering. It is not from Jesse Bacon, okay,
but we have an anonymous tough topic from a school administrator.
And it is a good one, and it is a

(45:19):
tough one, and it is a real life one. It
is a real life phone call that I got some
time ago, and I think I think it'll be funny.
I can't wait to see put Chuck on the spot
to answer this one.

Speaker 5 (45:32):
It'll be good.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah, hey, and uh, don't forget the hang on. After
we sign off for Mike's historical segment. It's also as
you any of you guys ever listened to his historical
segment at the end, it's really good.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
He doesn't right now he does.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
And the last thing we want to do is we
David and I.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Had a really good friend. He started off we were
at Mercer County.

Speaker 12 (45:55):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
That was my first assistant job. David was there as
an assistant. Larry French was the head coach, and one
of the assistant coaches there was good friend of ours,
Jack Robertson, and Jack you know Jack passed away this week,
and I mean, what a what a terrific coach he was,
what a great teacher. He talked down the hall from me,

(46:17):
and you know, we we would talk at you know,
when we were out supervising the kids. And I mean,
he was really a good guy, great guy, fun guy.
He liked to pick on David and uh.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
And pick up David a lot.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
David was the youngest one there, so he got all
of the he got He got all of the picking
on from the coach David.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
Hey U, Chuck and Coach French didn't have to pick
on me because Jack did enough for the whole staff
and the whole team. And it was the second I
walked in the door, he was on me. But but
I love him. And you know what's funny is at
the end, uh he'd come to Anderson County and watch
games and uh, he he'd pick on me and get
after me. But I'm gonna tell you what the end

(47:00):
of the day that Zucker would have killed for me too.
He was an awful good friend and he was incredibly
loyal to me. So it's been tough.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
Man. We are sure missing Big Jack right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, So the prayers to his family and will we
will miss Jack. Thank you, thank you all for signing
another one and listening to us, and we'll see you
next week.

Speaker 12 (47:24):
This is sports, and in particular, high school sports are
woven into the fabric of Americana. High school sports are
part of the DNA of communities across the country, and
that is certainly true in Kentucky. Fans know the stories
of the big names, but there are many names and

(47:44):
many stories that have been lost to history. This series
highlights those forgotten heroes. In this story, we go back
to an era when the KHSAA handed down a penalty
it's stood. There were no judges and no courts stepping
in to try to overturn their rulings. November fourth, nineteen

(48:08):
sixty six, Owensboro High squared off with longtime rival Henderson
City at rash Field in a game that had year
long ramifications. Owensboro took an early lead, then the Henderson
City Flash took advantage of a couple of red Devil
penalties to take the lead. Owensboro had two players ejected

(48:29):
for fighting. Owensboro had two scores called back, which fueled
their frustrations. Then when the final horn sounded, a full
blown melee broke out, with punches being thrown by players
and fans from both teams. Officials finally got things under control,
but the damage had been done. It was the final

(48:50):
game for both schools. Henderson City finished up at two
and seven and Owensboro finished at five and five. Two
weeks later, KHSAA Commissioner tix Ed Sandford came down with
a severe penalty for the Red Devils. Owensboro High was
placed on probation for two years, and the football team
was ruled ineligible for the next year's playoffs no playoffs

(49:14):
in nineteen sixty seven. Commissioner Sandford said each incident taken
by itself might not be severe enough, but together they
presented a formidable case against the school. Here's the thing.
The Red Devils returned a loaded team in nineteen sixty seven,
featuring running back Ike Brown. With no postseason on the table,

(49:38):
Owensboro set about on a redemption mission. They started the
season with a forty to nothing win over Owensboro Catholic,
a twenty to nothing win over Paducah Tillman of forty
nine to nothing win over Henderson County of forty seven
to nothing win over Union County of forty seven to

(50:00):
nothing victory over Tel City, Indiana, a fifty nine to
nothing win over Evansville Central, a thirty four to nothing
win over Davies County, a forty one to nothing win
over Bowling Green Then the number one ranked Red Devils
had an appointment on October twenty eighth with number two Flaga,

(50:22):
and flage came away with a twenty to seven win.
Owensboro ended their year with a thirty four to seven
win over their old rival Henderson City, the team they
were playing the year before when all hell broke loose.
Owensboro finished the probation year at nine to one. They
outscored their opponents three hundred seventy eight to twenty seven.

(50:47):
Only a loss to state champion Flageay blemished their record.
Several Red Devils that year went on to play at
the college level. Quarterback Bernie Strong played college baseball, Paul
Puckett went to U George Greenfield played at Murray State
and is in the Murray Hall of Fame. Alfred Thompson
played at UKU, Jerry Johnson was All Big Ten at Indiana,

(51:11):
and Isaac Brown was an All American in Western Kentucky.
And was drafted by the Patriots and played professionally in Canada.
The nineteen sixty seven Owensboro Red Devils were one of
the best teams in Kentucky history, but one emotionally charged
game quite possibly kept them from having the title of

(51:32):
state champions beside their name.

Speaker 13 (52:00):
Put the sound the sound, and putting the putt as

(52:50):
protect aspect, the finding defender the different fact. Fut to

(53:17):
do