Coaches Office Tough Topics

The coaches end season 4 with a variety of tough topic questions

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Coach David Buchanan Coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the

(00:33):
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Time for a coaches Office, Trivia time Out. Twenty four
players who played high school basketball in Kentucky are members
of the one thousand point Club at other SEC schools.
Which SEC schools have Kentucky kids in their one thousand

(01:06):
point clubs.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Welcome to the Coach's Office Behind the scenes with Chuck
Smith and Dew Buchannan. This is season four, Episode eighteen.
This is our our last episode of the season of
season four will start the off season after this. But
I'm Chuck Smith. I'm joined by co host Dew Buchannan

(01:30):
and podcast editor Story Taylor or Trivia Tyler Mike Yoakam.
Our YouTube version of this podcast is at teacock. If
you hit like and subscribe, that would really help us out. Again.
This is the end of a long season, four and one.
A season it's been. It's been really good. It's been.

(01:52):
We had a great high school football season in Kentucky.
I thought it was some really uh surprised teams, some
teams that really overachieved, and uh, it made for some
great state championship games. That made for a great championship
playoff run. And I thought there was a lot of
you know, interesting games during the playoffs. David and Tonight's

(02:16):
show will be all about tough topics, and we've got,
uh really five questions, and then at the end, we're
going to talk about, uh some of our open jobs
and that are that are open across the state of Kentucky.
Uh So that'll be a you know, an interesting uh
conversation about some of these jobs that have opened up.

(02:39):
But really there's some good, high profile jobs that have
opened up. But first of all, let me go through
the questions and then we'll come back and address each
one of them.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
The questions we're going to talk about in tough Topics,
I think you'll find interesting. One is what is what's
the most misunderstood about running a high school football program?
It'd be one question. Another question will be how do
you balance developing every player in your program while still
focusing on the small group of players who could truly

(03:14):
take you to that championship. Another question will be how
much do you tell your administration when you're applying for
other coaching jobs at other schools, and all these questions
so far are really relevant to this time of year
as well. But anyway, can you still build a state

(03:35):
championship football program in this era with just the kids
that live in your school district? So that'll be another
good question. Again, all these questions will are really relevant
to this time of year. It's it's beginning of the
off season. And then at the end, we'll talk a
little bit about Lane Kiffin and would you have left,

(03:58):
you know, miss before the college football playoffs, you know,
to take the LSU job. You know, thats just an opinion,
but we'll address that as well, and then we've got
some open jobs we're going to discuss. So let's get
right into the questions. David or do you have any comments?

Speaker 4 (04:14):
First? No, I'm I'm excited about it.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
And uh, you know, as we've you know, tried to
make a point of this is another effort of trying
to give our listeners what they want. So hey, we
got we got I mean there's weeks we struggle finding
a tough topic, but we got five good ones tonight,
and uh, we're we're going to do the best we
can with it.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, Well, David. First question up is what is the
most misunderstood part about running a high school football program?

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Want me go first? All right, I'll go first on
this one.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Okay, Uh, I mean we could do an entire episode
on this, all right, we know that we're not going
to do that. So what I did is I tried
to come up. I came up with three things that
I thought our listeners would enjoy. Number one, the idea
that you're trying to keep a lot of people happy.

(05:06):
I don't try to keep anybody happy. I do what's right.
I do what's best for the program. I let the
chips fall where they may. And part of that's just
very practical. You can't please people. You're never gonna please people,
So don't even try. Just do what's right. Just do
what's right, do what's becial for the program, and then
and then you got to move on from there.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (05:28):
The second thing that I think people don't understand is that,
you know, a head coach really doesn't get to do.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
A whole lot of football.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
You've got to be organized, you've got to plan, you
gotta do the structure, you got to communicate, you got
to put out fires. Uh, you're always building the program.
You're not really getting to do a lot of quote
unquote football except in season on the weekends after your
game when the video comes on until Sunday night, you

(05:57):
get to do football because you've got to prepare for
an you've got a game plan. Other than that though,
really for me, and I think I shared this with
you a couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago,
I took a day and did football. You know, I
watched some college video, I looked at our stuff, and
that was like a day off. Was that I got

(06:17):
to do football. So we don't get to do as
much football, I think as people think. And then the
third thing is is that people think you're the head coach. Well,
you're the boss and you're in charge. Now, it is
true that ultimately I've got to own every decision, okay, and.

Speaker 4 (06:33):
I've got to be I've got to sign off on.

Speaker 5 (06:35):
Everything that we do. But we really more so work together.
It's not really working for me. And then this is
what this is the dynamic that people don't understand. It
is very difficult to get quality assistant coaches. I spend
my time trying to keep my assistant coaches happy so

(06:56):
I can keep them.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
Because if I can keep.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
Assistant coaching is my players have quality assistants, and now
we got a chance to be special, and now I
can do a better job. And along with that man,
we don't meet a whole lot. If something is critical,
we're gonna meet, but we never meet just to meet.
I try to be really careful about their time. I
try to keep the assistant coach his wife. I try

(07:21):
to keep her on my side so that she knows, hey,
I know he needs to get home.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
Now.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
We do everything we need to do to win. But
what I'm saying is we don't just waste time to
waste it. So am I the boss quote unquote, I
guess I am. But what I'm really trying to do
is keep really good coaches happy so they keep coaching.
And that's what I spend a lot of my time on.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
I really liked your answer, David, and minders are very
similar to yours. I think that you know, I guess
you know. Football is football. Honestly, I think the most
misunderstood part is how much it has really nothing to
do with football. When you're running a program, it really
does it.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
It does?

Speaker 3 (08:06):
You know, people see the games, the wins, the losses,
but they don't see the countless hours spent teaching kids
how to show up, how to be accountable, how to
handle adversity, how to become young men. And that's kind
of what you addressed and talked about.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
You know.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
As a coach, you manage personalities of grades, academics, parents, behavior, injuries, emotions,
social media. In today's world, life issues kids are dealing
with that most people are on the outside will never
know about. It's not just drawing plays and it's it's

(08:48):
building a culture. It's making teenagers trust each other by
in believe in something bigger than themselves. And the hardest
work is actually done Monday through Thursday. Uh, in the classroom,
the weight room, the film room, not under the Friday
night lights like everybody sees. And that's what they judge

(09:09):
you on. People think, you know, you know the people
think that you know football coaches, uh, you know, coach football,
but really their coach in life. And I think that's
what drives most of them into the profession. And everybody's
got that competitive age, but I think most of them
do it for that reason, the right reason.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Making you know, young men, you know, are making players
good young men, and so I think it's got a
lot to do with uh, you know, I think that's
probably the most misunderstood part of running a football program
from the outside looking in.

Speaker 5 (09:47):
And I love that answer of what I what I
wrote that book, which really started because people are always
asking me, say, what's Chuck's day? When you were you?
And that what led to my book. But as I
got to writing about these coaches that I really admire
and I appreciate, it always would boil down to two things.
Those guys they love kids and they love football, and

(10:08):
those two things they sort of make it go. And
I feel like that's what you were talking about there
and coaching life that you know, the guys that don't
love kids and don't want to make that impact in
their life and help them be better, those guys they
don't last as long. I don't think there's effective and
I definitely think what you're talking about. I think that's

(10:30):
that's why you do it, and that's why I like it.
Old guys like us, we don't want to get away
from it because that makes it addictive, and you really
want to you want to get to be part of that.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
It's a special thing.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, very very well, said David. Next question is
how do you balance developing every player in your program
while still focusing on the small group of players who
could truly take it to that championship. You want to
go first this time?

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Yeah, you go, you go first on this one.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Okay, Well, you you absolutely need to develop your top guys.
And everybody seems to have a few top guys. You know,
they uh, you know, they they change uh that you know,
they can change the game for you. And so most
people have probably i mean, depends on what kind of
size program you got, probably your size, uh, you know,

(11:23):
they get you might have more if you've got a
bigger you know, six A or something like that, but
mostly five, you know, four, three a whatever. They got
five or six, you know, really good players, and I
think you've gotta you've got to develop those five or
six players. But the truth is, and this is what
I've always believed, you can't win championships with just those

(11:45):
five or six players. You've got to have support players
to help those block from you know whatever. You know, uh,
you've got to have the support players, and you can't
win the championship without the support players. So I've spent
a lot of my time. I always thought that the
star players were going to be the star players. Of

(12:07):
course we were going to develop them, of course we
were going to work with them. But we spent a
lot of time working with the support players and trying
to develop their potential. You know, you coach, you know,
you coach the stars, sure, but you never neglect the
middle or the bottom of your roster because one, you

(12:29):
need to support players. Two you need to develop the
future players. So you're always you're you're always you know, trying.
That's a key to having a great program, is the
developmental part of your program. Championships are not one by
those six or seven guys, as I said, you know,
they they're won by the whole program to support players

(12:50):
the top of the roster, you know, all the way
down to the bottom of the roster. At least your
future is involved with that as well. You never know,
you really never know how. You can't neglect those the
bottom party in rock because you never know how a
fifteen year old is going to grow and change and develop.
You know, it might be you know, slow, a little

(13:13):
bit uncoordinated at the beginning, but you never and I
and you've seen them, and I've seen many of them
over my lifetime. How they develop. Their body changes when
they get older, their athleticism changes, their interest in the game,
and once they get really hooked and into the game,
then they're going to mix out their potential and their

(13:34):
desire to want to be the best they can be.
So yeah, absolutely, you know, I do think that you
you do have to develop the support players and your
entire roster that can if you want to, if you
want to have a championship program.

Speaker 5 (13:49):
Hey, I like that answer, and I looked at it
more as in, like my starters versus my non starters,
So I will. But really the more now that I'm
looking at question, I think you answered it better than
I would. I talked about all the off season stuff,
the player development stuff, the stacking quality reps in season.

(14:13):
I think for developing all your players that JV games
are very are critical, and you know, because practice will
be devoted to those starters, but the JV game is
devoted to player development, and so I think that's important. Hey,
we do this the youth camps in the off season
seven skills for seventh graders. We try to get a

(14:35):
head start on that skill development, and you know, when
they're that young, you don't know what position they're going
to play, or who the good ones are or not.
But try to give all of our guys somewhat of
a baseline of skills before we get them the one
guy that and this is tough when it happens the
seniors that can't get on the field, that's when it

(14:56):
gets tough. They can still contribute on scout team and
still have some moments. In fact, we had a couple
of seniors this year that I thought ended up contributing more,
uh than maybe it looked like it would early. But
the senior that's not playing that one gets tough. But really,
everyone else in your program is probably going to have
a good opportunity to improve and get better.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
I think yeah, And I like to point you you
made on your JV games. I think that you know,
I never wanted to cancel a JV game, and uh,
I mean I don't. I never really cared if I
want or loss. I thought that they really needed those
reps and needed that competition. It's it's a whole lot different,

(15:39):
and you play a whole lot different when you're in
a competitive situation than if you are in practice, and
I think that brings the best out in you. So
you know, if I could get eleven guys on the field,
I was going to play the game. And uh it didn't.
And I could care less if I want or loss.
I just wanted those guys to be able to get
out there and compete in a competitive situation. So thank

(16:03):
you about a good point.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
Yeah, I agree one hundred percent, and I think I
think some I think the key to building a program
is fighting it out, even though it's a hassle. We've
got to try to play those games, get the officials,
find a place, get the bus. I know sometimes it's
a hassle, but I think it's important and I think
we have really got into this.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
But I think it's sort of an ethical issue as.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
Well, in that I think we try to give all
of our players the best opportunity to be the best
that they can be.

Speaker 4 (16:34):
I think that's important.

Speaker 5 (16:35):
If the kid comes out that he knows and the
family knows, hey, the coach is trying to help him
be the best, even though he's not one of the
most talented guys in the program.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Hey, David, we're headed off
to the next one, the next question you want to do,
And the next question is how much do you tell
your administrators when you're applying for other coaching jobs at
other schools.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
All right, it's a good one, and I gave a
few more details on this. I thought it was a
sort of a fun question. I think you do this.
I think you tell them when you apply. But when
you tell them say hey, I'm gonna apply for a
job or jobs, I wouldn't even necessarily differentiate between a job.
Say I'm gonna check some things out, I may apply.

(17:24):
Tell them you're not going to bring it up again
unless it becomes a possibility you're going to take another job,
because you don't need to be talking to your boss
every day saying well I interviewed or I got an
interview or they you don't.

Speaker 4 (17:36):
That doesn't need to happen.

Speaker 5 (17:37):
You need to tell them say hey, this is a possibility,
and if it gets serious, you'll hear from me again,
and then you move forward. I think also a few
extra details here. You know, probably if you're interviewing for
other jobs, there's probably some issues where you are. I
think you keep your current job and the new job separate.

(17:58):
They don't have anything to do with each other. Are
you going to fix what we need to fix at
this school so we can win. That's got nothing to
do with I may or may not leave, you know,
we just we need to do what's best for our program.
Of a something you and I have talked about. Hey,
if I ask you what you want to get paid,
tell them say, hey, you guys, decide if you like me,

(18:20):
and then we'll figure out the money later.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
I we've talked about that. Don't don't don't tell them
what you want to get paid.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Leave.

Speaker 5 (18:28):
I'll leave it at that right now. I do think though,
there's an added bonus from all this. And when you
tell your bosses that you're looking, you can sort of
tell them the way they react of oh man, I
want I want to keep I want to keep our coach.
I like what we're doing, or they they're like, this

(18:52):
is like number one hundred on my list, and you
can you can tell that, and and you know, here's
the thing this is. I thought about this. When you
have a change in your bosses. Okay, most of them
they want to hire their guy, they really do. And
if they get to hire their guy, then they're going

(19:15):
to give the program what the program needs if they
inherit you as a head coach. It's not a given.
But I'll just put it this way. I have never
left the boss that hired me.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
Never.

Speaker 5 (19:29):
It's always been when there was a change and a
change in vision, or you know, just you could tell, hey,
they want to go in a different direction, that's how
it would turn out. So I know it gave some
extra details there, but I think that we have a
lot of coaches that listen, and I think those little

(19:50):
kinds of details can help them navigate some of this
and sort of maybe know sort of what to look for.
And hey, I tell you what the last thing I'll say.
And this is really paid off for me when everybody
knows what's going on. Listen carefully, because even if they
don't want to tell you what they're thinking, they'll keep

(20:10):
talking and they'll tell you what they're thinking. You just
let them talk and you'll you'll get the message of
what you need to know.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
That's good advice. Yeah, that's good advice. I think my
answer is a little different than yours. I don't you know.
I've just always believed in being respectful and professional about
it with my administrators. Uh, but I don't tell them
every conversation that I have on the phone, you know,
And when somebody called me asked me about a job,

(20:41):
I never told them about that. You know, there's you know,
but then if my my philosophy always was that if
I was if I was a serious candidate, you know,
both ways, serious candidate for a job, maybe maybe called
back for a second interview, I wouldn't even tell if
I was going on the interview because I didn't know

(21:02):
if I was interested in I went on the interview.
And then if I felt like that I was serious
about that job or they were serious about me and
I wanted that job, then I would go to the
administration and say, look, I'm I'm I'm looking at another job.
You know, I tell them how it came about whether
I applied or whether they called me, and I'd say,

(21:25):
I'm I'm going back for another interview. So I think
it's only fair that I give you a heads up.
I want you to be able to find a good replacement.
You know, if I was to choose to go to
take the other job, I want you to find a
good replacement. And I think that's only fair. I want
that I don't want to leave that program that I've

(21:47):
spent some time in building behind dry. I wanted them
to get a good replacement for you, for me and I,
you know, and I don't want to tell them about
every compy. There was a time in my career where
I could not even get an interview, so nobody tell,
you know. And then there was a time in my
career where I got a lot of phone calls for

(22:09):
people wanted me to uh, you know, apply for the job.
So I've been on both sides of both spectrums of that,
but I didn't figure it out. I didn't want to
cause any unnecessary distractions. So I wasn't going to tell
anybody about the phone calls that I got, uh unless
I was serious about that job. And that's the that's

(22:30):
the way I approached it. If I was serious, and
also they were serious, and either way, and I would
tell them, you know, if they called and asked me
to come interview and I chose not to, then I
wouldn't tell nobody. If I chose to go interview, then
I would tell somebody, and I just tell them, you know,
I'm gonna look at this job, you know, and I'm

(22:53):
I'm I might be pretty serious about it. So that's
that's always the philosophy and the approach that I took, uh,
you know, uh towards you know, looking at other jobs
and keeping the administration you know, involved in that that decision.

Speaker 4 (23:09):
Yeah, And like I'm the question it said, want you
The question was once you apply, So on phone calls
and stuff, I mean, I agree with you. I didn't
a whole lot.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, I'm a little different. Yeah, I want once you
apply for the job, if you've applied for the job, yes,
I think that if you're applying for the job, then
you have expressed interest in that job. And uh, if
nowadays you know you're going to be they're going to
be on your reference anyway, or or somebody from that

(23:43):
school is going to call your administrator, whether you're whether
you listen to them as a reference or not, they're
going to call. And you know, I've been a jobs
too where you know I would tell them up front.
I said, uh, I'm not going to give you references
until you have me in your final three, final two,

(24:04):
final two. Then I'll give you my references and you'll
and you can call them if you want to, because
I'll know by then if I'm interested, and you'll know
by then if you're interested in me. It's no sense
getting everybody uh distracted, you know, based upon or as
we're filling this out, you know I may not be
lucky for me.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
You know. Yeah, I like that. That's good.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
Hey, I do want to say this. If there's young
coaches listening applying for jobs, man, do what's right, and
uh treat everybody right. Because here here's sort of what's happened.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Now.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
I'll have calls not about me on a job, but
let's say, like, let's say you're an administrator at school A,
and a coach from school B has applied at school A. Well,
the coach coach school B didn't he didn't have me
on his reference. But the adminis from school A will say, hey,

(25:01):
can you find out about this coach? So I can
make some phone calls and I can find out. I
can tell that administrator, Hey, I'm hearing good or I'm
hearing bad. The administrator doesn't know who I've talked to.
I protect him and the people I'm calling they don't
even know what I'm calling for. And I'm just sharing

(25:21):
that though. Man, in this day and age, people are talking,
and I mean, do what's right.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
I mean, you're gonna make.

Speaker 5 (25:27):
People mad, that goes with it, but just make sure
if you have a conversation or you do something that
you can defend it and you've got a good reason
for why you did it or this is okay too
to say, you know what, I screwed up. I handled
that poorly, and yeah, you're right, So you know, I
hope that'll help some coaches.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah, and another thing too is you know, the if
administrator is worth anything at all, he's gonna call other
people besides your reference. He's gonna call people that could
possibly know you. So you know understand that he's not
just going to call references because you're only going to
put references on there that are going to kili of you.

(26:09):
Another thing is, especially if you're applying for an assistant job,
clean up your Facebook and all that social media. When
I was at Boyle and I was trying to hire
assistant coaches, I know that's one of the first things
they did check when I go down there and give
them the name of the candidate that I wanted. As

(26:30):
soon as I left their office, they were looking them
up on Facebook and you know, all those other social
media you know things that they were and I've had
them call me back down there and they say, look
at this Facebook he's holding up beer or whatever.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
Uh, he said, we're not interviewing him. You've had to
find somebody else. We're not interviewing you. I've had that
happen more than once. So sure you clean up. You
know what you have on Facebook and that sort of thing.
You know, it's it's uh, you know, I think again,
I think you got to treat everybody. I've got a
story for you, David. I don't. I haven't talked about much,

(27:08):
but when I you know, when I left you know, Kentucky,
and I was, uh, I was off there for a while.
Then I started understanding that I needed to go back
to get my retirement. I needed to finish five more
years to get the full retirement, uh and through the
Kentucky teacher retirement. So I applied for a job. I

(27:31):
got a job, I got, I got the job offered,
and I accepted the job at Madison Central and UH,
at the time, you know, I figured that, you know,
that was my best option, that was the job I
was going to take. Well two weeks later, the Boyle
County job opened back up. I didn't know it was
going to open. I had no idea it was going

(27:52):
to open. It opened back up, and then they called me,
and uh, then of course they, you know, uh, put
together a really good package. I had told Madison Central
that they called me. I told the principal there and
I told him, I said, you know, you know, it
just was like within a two week period, you know,

(28:14):
from the time I took to Madison Central to the
time I got two weeks later I accepted the Boil job.
And it basically it came down to it came down
to my retirement. I could make ten thousand more a
year at Boil and that would go on to my
retirement for the rest of my life, Okay, And and

(28:39):
so I mean it was to me it was a
no brain decision. The reason I was going back to
high school anyway was to get that retirement. I needed
that retirement retirement, and you're talking about towards the end
of your coaching career anyway. So unfortunately I resigned at
Madison Central, which I understand, I made a lot of
people mad doing that, and uh, I guess it was

(29:01):
kind of selfish and uh. But but it was self,
you know, it was it was motivated, you know, for
my retirement. That's what based my I based my decision on.
And you know, of course I was familiar with Boyle
to it. There was a lot of positives there. But
the bottom line is, you know, if it didn't have

(29:22):
anything to do with retirement, then I probably would have
stayed at Madison Central, just out of loyalty that I'd
taken the job and accepted the job. But when you
add all the other factors in, then I you know,
you know, buy the house, selling the house, moving, all
that kind of stuff. When you start adding all those

(29:44):
factors in, it was just it just made more sense
for me to go go back to Boyle County. And
I do not regret it one bit. That was really
kind of my home anyway, and I love Boyle County.
But I regretted the fact that I had let Matison
Central down for that period of time, you know, and

(30:04):
they recovered, they've done good, they didn't miss me, so
forth and so on. But I do I do know
I made some of the administrators mad when I made
that decision. I think I made that decision off of
the right reasons. For what I needed and wanted to
get accomplished in terms of my retirement.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
Well, and I think when you did that, I think
it was I don't think it was like approaching the
season or anything like that, when it's still like January
or February when you made that change.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
I think so, yeah, it was. Yeah, I think so February.
So there was there was.

Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah, there was quite a bit of time there that
they had that they could they could look and uh,
so I understand that. And uh, I mean, I think
all of us and that's why you know, and I'm
not I'm not saying it's the same, but like when
we talk about Lane Kiffin, this is a great example
though of you know, there's details and information that the
general public doesn't know that goes into these decisions, saying

(31:01):
we'll talk about that as we get closer. So I like,
its a good answer, And I tell you what our
listeners that might be the reason they tune in is
to hear that.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
You know, that was pretty good.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
But then our fourth question is can you still build
a state championship football program in the era with uh,
with just the kids that are in your school district?

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (31:27):
And I'll go first on this one. I absolutely think
that you can. You know, it's of course it's a
lot harder. It's getting harder all the time. Uh, you know,
no question about that at all. Uh. That the landscape
is changing with you know, between transfers and social media

(31:48):
and kids being more mobile than they've ever been.

Speaker 5 (31:52):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Some programs have the ability to, you know, to go
out and get kids and get them get their family's
jobs and build roster that way. Not everybody does, but
I would think that some could, you know, you know
the truth. You know, if you have a great culture,
you know, a unified staff, and a consistent developmental plan,

(32:15):
then I think you can still win at the highest level,
you know, with your with your own kids. And but
I think you got a I think there's really three
things involved to keeping your kids, uh, you know, keeping
your kids and not only keeping kids, but being able
to develop those kids into a state championship, you know
type of atmosphere. I think number one is, of course,

(32:37):
we've talked about it some of our other questions already
is player development. You know, you have to commit to
developing kids, uh from the moment they enter your program.
You know, the strength, speed, football IQ. All of those things.
You've got to commit to it. It's it's the most important,
you know, one of the most important things you're going
to do. Then of course you got up number two.

(33:00):
The second thing is you've got to build a culture
that kids you know don't want to leave, you know, uh.
Make your program demanding, make it discipline, but also full
of love so they don't want to leave, you know.
And culture. I still believe this with all my heart.
Culture can still be talent. Culture can still be talent.

(33:20):
I really believe that. And then the third thing is, uh,
you know, turn your uh, turn your district into you know,
like a football community. I think that's really important. You know,
if if you you know, if you can align you know,
your youth league, your middle school, your high school, and
your boosters and your community. If you can get them

(33:44):
all aligned, uh and going in the same direction, you've
got something special going on. And I think, you know,
I think with those three things that and if you
get those three three you know, three things in position,
you know, development of your players, the culture you build

(34:05):
so that your kids don't want to leave, they want
to be a part of that. And then you get
all of your youth league and your middle school and
parents and high school, everybody going in the same direction,
aligned in the same direction. I think you can win
with with just your kids in your district. I really
believe that.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Hey, I don't disagree with you.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
I do think it's tougher because in the old days,
you could almost everybody could count on a cycle of
kids coming through at some point, and now you don't.
You can't count on that, I mean that cycle of kids.
They never show up now, So it does get tougher.
But I think it's possible. Yes, I still think it's possible.

(34:49):
And you know, here's the other thing too. And I
know the question is just kids that live in your school,
and the answer is yes, But it's tougher. But even
and if your approach is like like what you described,
the culture and building a program, uh, you know, you'll
still end up picking up transfers without bending rules. I mean,

(35:14):
there will still be some people show up because they
want to be part of that program. So uh, yeah,
you can, it's gonna be tougher. And to be quite
honest with you, though you did such a great job
with that question, I don't have a whole lot else
I could answer. I thought it was really good. I'm
just acknowledging that, Yes, it is tougher than it used
to be.

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Yes, and you're.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Gonna get kids moved. You're gonna have kids move because
of parents change jobs or you know, or you got
people move in and pu people move out for those reasons,
those are gonna happen. I think what we're referring to
as part of it. I think the question was referring
to people recruiting and bringing kids in, right, you know

(35:55):
that that sort of thing. So my question was based
upon my answer was dised upon your kids. And sometimes
your kids do change because they move for whatever reason,
or some move in for whatever reason they weren't they
weren't recruited, uh in or out, you know. But obviously
that's happening a lot nowadays. But it's not it's not all.

(36:18):
All your move ins aren't because you recruited them. It's
because they moved in because the family got a new
job or what have you.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Yes, sir, I agree, yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
Uh, well, David, we got uh we're headed to the
last question that Look, I believe this is gonna be
your favorite question. And uh, if you were Lane Kippen,
would you have left or miss before the college football
uh playoffs to go to LSU, which you know, some
people could argue that it's the best job in college football.

Speaker 5 (36:51):
I mean, some people might even say it's the best
job in football. I don't know if there's an NFL
job better.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
I mean, I'm old.

Speaker 5 (36:59):
I still saw to me Notre Dame in Alabama or
sort of the you know, they're they're the two bets.

Speaker 4 (37:04):
But it's a changing landscape. So here we go. No,
I would not have left Old miss. Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
But I'm not gonna say that what he did is wrong.
I'm not doing that because I don't know his world.
I don't know the information he's got. Uh, So I'm
not I'm not being critical of him. I'm just saying
I would not have done that. But there's a lot
about that that I don't know.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
And I'm not gonna pretend that I know. I would
have stayed. I wouldn't.

Speaker 5 (37:34):
I just I would not take a job at another school,
or I wouldn't talk to another school if I had
a if we still had games left to play.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
I'm just pretty simple for me.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
You know, Now, I did say this from the outside
looking in. It looks like Old Miss has been really
really good to Lane Kiffin super.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
And it did remind me of this.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
You know, at Mason County from ninety six to two
thousand and three, we got better. We had that really
good team at OH three and gradually and it went
really well. Two thousand and four.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Was rough.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
We were one and nine, and I had a chance
to take a job that could be better. It's gonna
be closer to home, it's gonna be better paid, better facilities.
I mean, it sort of looked good. And I know
this is gonna sound very simplistic, but uh, I just
I couldn't leave.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
I wasn't gonna leave Maswell after they had been so
good to me.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
I wasn't gonna have We've had all this success, all
this good stuff. We have a one and nine season
while David's leaving. I mean, there would have been good
reasons to do it, but I couldn't do it. I
just couldn't. They've been too good to me, and so
I stayed. We ended up staying for nineteen years total.

(38:59):
And looking back on it, man, I'm so. I mean, look,
I can look back and I wish I had done
things different. I tell you, what I look back on
a lot. I look back on a lot on things
I said that I wish I had not said. Good grief.
But I will say this though, when I look back
on the decision in two thousand and four, after we

(39:19):
had been one and nine, I'm so glad I stayed
at Mason County. I'm so glad.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
Hey.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
The next year, we weren't world beaters, but we were
seven and four. We played some great football. We gave
rod Castle all they wanted, we missed a field goal,
and we had some really good teams after that. And
I tell you what, that two thousand and five team
was a fun, fun team to coach. So yeah, uh again,

(39:45):
I'm not saying Lane Kiffin is wrong at all. I'm
not saying that because I don't know that world. I
don't know, but I know for me, I would still
be at Old Miss.

Speaker 4 (39:56):
That's men well.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Well, and like you said, if you unless you walk
in his shoes, you really can't judging because that's the
way the college football world is set up right now.
You know. I don't like the way it's set up.
I don't like that they can change jobs before the
season's over with. I would say we changed that. But
I think that based up on what he had to

(40:18):
work with. I think he felt like he had to
do what he had to do for his family, you know,
sort of like I was talking about earlier when I
chose to go to boil after that two week period
with Madison Central. You know, my retirement check is ten
thousand dollars better than for the rest of my life.

(40:43):
You know, that's that would be unfair to my family
to say, no, I'm not going to do that, you know,
for you know, you know what I'm saying. I'm saying that.
You know it just sometimes you just got to do
what's best for your family, and that's that's for the
rest of your life. You're making those decisions. I would
wish that he could have stayed and coached O Miss,

(41:04):
kind of like what John Somerl is doing with Tulane
and then going to Florida. You know, he worked it out,
but you know, for some reason, I don't know what
his personality or what they got a conflict and with
Old Miss and Old Miss wouldn't allow him to do that.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
I get that part of it. But that is the
way the college world is set up right now, you know,
it's set up with you know, the transfer portal. They
can start looking for another schools now. Even if they're
on one of the playoff teams or a bow team,
they can start looking. I mean, it's I don't think
that's right. I don't think it's set up right. The

(41:43):
coach shouldn't be allowed to leave until after the season,
but that's the way it's set up. They can do it,
so I don't think we can judge him. I bet
he would give anything to still be coaching O miss
uh and why he's transitioned into l s U. But
it didn't work out that way. And you know, I
don't think it's the body's fault.

Speaker 5 (42:06):
Yeah, hey, and along those lines, because you've lived this life.
I think the college football season needs to be done.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
On January first, like the old days. I think it
should be done.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
I think those I know they're young men now, but
I still sort of think of them as kids because
you coach them. But I think those guys they need
a break. They need a little bit of a break
from January first until classes start backed. I think their bodies,
they mentally need a break. I think the calendar has
gotten so out of whack and that's made it so
much more complicated. Man, how nice would it be if

(42:40):
you said, you know, January first, January second, you can
talk to other coaches, or when your season ends, and
that's when the portal opened. I just they have gotten
so out of whack with their calendar. I think they
got to fix their calendar. And if they can fix
their calendar, it might fix some of these other problems.

(43:02):
But it's a mess. It's all driven by money. I'm
not saying anything that we all don't know, but it's
like a lot of things. You know, that pendulum will
swing and right now that pendulum may swing back on
the money piece of this. And uh, I tell you what,
just I wouldn't take you for granted. Don't kill the

(43:24):
golden goose because at some point fans, booster supporters are
going to say, hey, you know what, I've had my
feel of this, and I would try to be aware
of that in making these decisions.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Well, I'm with you on the calendar. They if they're
going to pay them, you know, like NFL players, and
that's what they're doing, then they need to come up
with a calendar. Uh, you know, and like the NFL
has the NFL has the calendar. As you know, died
while to go. They have a date in which nobody
can change jobs and nobody can switch teams until that
date comes, and then everybody's open. You know, it's but everything,

(44:01):
you know, free, free to go and do what you
need to do. The college football needs to be put
on a calendar because you know they're paying them, like
the NFL now, and if you if they're paying you
for the year, then by god it you need to
play in the bowl game they paige it. You know
that it needs to be a contract then, you know,
but all that's out of our control. I wish all

(44:21):
that would be fixed, and maybe someday it will be.
Maybe it won't, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
Yeah, it's a shame. I last thing I'm gonna really
put you on the spot. You didn't know this was coming.
If you were a college head coach and you were
going to play in a lesser bowl, would it be
a big deal to you that your players playing that
bowl or would you say to them say, hey, I
understand you're trying to protect your body for the draft.

(44:46):
I mean, to me, I'm almost thinking that the bowl
game is turning into a practice for twenty twenty six.
I just wonder what you thought if you were in
that role.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Oh, I just think that you should play. I think
you should play if you're if you're a head coach
there and you should want your players to play. It's uh,
you know, it's for your school. That's your school, that's
your culture, that's your program, that's what you're trying to build.
And uh, the kids that you know, I'll tell you
what you know, Bryce Young, you know who he is,
the quarterback. Yeah, he played. You know, I've been a

(45:21):
fan of his is every since that year he played
in that bowl game when he could have it wasn't
a playoff game, and when the college football playoff game,
but he played in a bowl game. He didn't have to.
He could have got ready for the NFL draft. He
was going to be a top draft pick, and he
chose to play in the bowgue And I've been a
fan of his ever since. I just think that that's

(45:43):
really unusual for a kid to make in his position,
to make that choice put the team first, put his
teammates first. That's rare. But he's always going to be
on my my list of favorite players.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
You know, you said you sound like my for Football
list last week. That's why I like those guys sort
of the same type of deal.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
So, hey, David, as we get into the last segment
of the show, were let's talk about some open jobs,
and you know what, there's I think there's around twenty
eight to thirty open jobs. You know, last year there
ending up like forty five or no, around fifty, fifty
to fifty five. I mean the last few years have
been fifty to fifty five open jobs. It's still early.

(46:27):
I mean we have it is bring semester, but there's
already thirty jobs open there. They'll probably be another fifteen
or so.

Speaker 4 (46:36):
I'm looking here at Bluegrass Preps and Colonel swear Blue
has got open field jobs. He's got the twenty eight
jobs that opened up. Those twenty eight, he says that
four have been filled.

Speaker 5 (46:51):
Yeah, so these guy's listed out there, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Some of the jobs that are open. You've got Saint
X high profiles. They get Louisville Central State Championship Caliber program,
Male a high profile job. Hazard is a really really
good football job. You got John Harden. You've got Taylor

(47:16):
County along with a bunch of other jobs. You had
Christian County, which was going to merge Hopkinsville in Christian County.
That was a really good job. But it's been filled
by Dustin Lopez, who was the head coach at at Hopkinsville.
He did a really nice job. He's a good, good coach.
And then listen to this job, Eminence. Okay, high, you

(47:38):
talk about a whole This is not a home run higher,
this is a grand slam hire. Excuse me. They hired
Gary McPeak. I mean, I don't know where in the
world that came from, but Garry McPeak is one heck
of a football coach, and Eminence who does not have
any history of being ultra success full.

Speaker 5 (48:00):
In eleven man ape man, they're pretty good. But in
a eleven man that's correct. Well, when they were Steve Fromeyer
had him. Steve did a great job. Steve's an assistant
at Saint X. I got to know him a little
bit and he did a good job. But hey, Gary's
got a live experience and been a very successful coach.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yes, yeah, and and and them, and that's got him higher.
So that that's a that's that's a great hire from them.
And uh, you know, you got some good coaches out
there that are that uh you know, you got of
course Chris Wolfe is on our program, said that he
would still be interested in coaching again. And you got
Matt Chandler who was on our program, uh, who was

(48:37):
let go at Hazard says he's interested, uh of course
in taking his two boys and uh and and letting
them help him coach another program. And I love that
story when he told us that anyway, uh, you got
you know, could Kevin Wallace could he coach again? Couldn't
Larry the French coach again? You know they both coached

(48:57):
on this show. They wouldn't but.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
Said to why said no, that the that they would
not be back.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
But what do you think about those jobs, David?

Speaker 5 (49:08):
I tell you what there are. There's some good opportunities there.
I tell you what I thought though. Chris had a
really good comment a couple of weeks ago. He said
he feels like there's more really good coaches in Kentucky
than there are really good jobs. And I think there's
a lot of truth to that. And I never thought
of it that way, but I thought he I thought
he had a good point. H Taylor County. I'm really

(49:30):
hoping they're going to hire William Harris. He's their defensive coordinator.
He's really paid his dues. He's been the Frank Broyles
Assistant of the Year in the state of Kentucky. He's
very much you know, he's trying to model a lot
of the way that he operates off of things he's
learned from you. And uh, he would be a great
hire for them, And I think he would be a
very good coach down the road. I got to talk

(49:53):
to Marvin Danceler today.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Uh, Marvin.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
My list.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
Yeah, he said, great. Well, I tell you what, he
is a great coach. I don't I don't want to
speak out a turn from our private conversation. I'll just
say this. If he were to take a year off
while his son plays, I can see that. Uh, now
will he coach again? I think all these guys that
step away from it, I think it sort of comes

(50:20):
down to this, can you live without it or not?
And I think if you get away from it and
you can live without coaching, you probably don't. You Probably
you've got your mental health. You probably ought to just
take care of your mental health and be done. But now,
if Marvin's out of it for a year and he
really misses it. And I don't know, Marvin may be coaching.

(50:42):
Marvin may get a job next week. I mean, I
don't know that, but uh, but it was interesting to
talk to him about, you know, his process, and you know,
he's coached for a long time. He's he's been a
lot of places, you know.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
So it is. It's an interesting list and there will.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
A little be a little bit of a dyeynamic of
the dominoes following depending on who goes to Saint X,
who goes to Mail, because then other people will start
lining up. Who goes to Central could could also be
a piece of that. I think the job in this
list that people don't realize how good it is. I

(51:21):
think the Christian County job has got incredible potential. You're
putting together two six A schools. There's gonna be a
lot of bodies there, and uh, I think Dustin will
do a good job with them. I could see them
really making some noise down the road. Hey, Jtown High
School is open.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
I have not got all neither. I saw that.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
I'm like, man, hey, take the Jatown jib and we'll
scrimmage every year and we'll have we'll have a blast.
Go to Jaytown. How much fun would we have.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Now we're gonna play on the schedule. We're not gonna
he's going to play.

Speaker 5 (52:01):
Hey, bring it on.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
Marvin would be a really I bet he's getting a
lot of phone calls for some of these jobs. He
would be a really to pick up.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
I kind of thought he was going to go to
Christian County on here at one time, but uh, I
guess that fell through. But you know, I think that's
why I forgot about him. But yeah, he would be
definitely a big time pick for somebody, a home run
higher for somebody.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
And one thing for our listeners just to sort of
understand the dynamic here. Jefferson County Public Schools pays their
teachers extremely well. So for a JCPS coach teacher to
leave that system, it's a little bit like Fayett County.
Any guy that is teaching and coaching in Fayett County

(52:52):
or Jefferson County, they're probably looking at a pretty big
pay cut if they leave.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Yeah, not football, but teach it. Yes, they don't teach
it to be a coach.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
They just pay them a lot teacher and a whole
lot more than the rest of everybody else.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a pretty good Don Harten.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Used to be a really good job too. And you know,
it's kind of if Doug Preston couldn't get that job
turned around. I don't know if he can get turned around,
because I think Dog's a really good football coach and
he retired, but uh, I don't know. There's some pretty
good jobs open, you know, and well, well, as time
goes by, we're going to find out who who fills

(53:34):
these jobs. And and you know, some of these jobs
could create the domino effect to David, where somebody on
school uh goes to the Saint X or the Mail
or the Central and and and that opens up another
big time job, you know.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
You know.

Speaker 5 (53:49):
And I'm looking at some of these openings and and
I'm I'm I'm not going to name names right now. Okay,
I'm not going to name names, but I'm looking at
some of these openings and I think back over the
last fifty years, and I think about guys who were
at one school for a long time that did a
really good job. They were unappreciated, and then when they left,

(54:12):
they sort of found out maybe that guy was better
than we thought he was.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
You know, And.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
I just I look at names on this list that
are they're struggling that they used to not struggle, and
I just I think it's tougher to find and keep
a really good football coach and what people realize and
I tell you that your community for sure, say that again,

(54:42):
under appreciated for sure. Yeah, And I'm just saying, hey,
if your school, if your community's got a good head coach,
and I try to make it work out. You know,
our culture, we like quick fish fixes, we like splash hires.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
But and if you've got a guy in there grinding,
working hard and making progress, uh hue, jumping there and
help him, and uh, I think that's your best chance
to have success because I just think if you look
at people that have been really good, they've had some continuity,
they really have, they've had continuity, and I think that's underrated.

(55:22):
I think continuity and I think experience are underrated. So
you know, I just think it's I think it's it's
it's I think sometimes investing in what you got might
pay off more than what you realize.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
David, what a year we've had. It's been a great
year for I think season four, as I said, this
will be the final episode of season four, but don't
don't go away, and we're going to have another We'll
have an off season program and uh on that off
season program will address a lot of off season issues.

(55:57):
We touched on it with some of our questions here,
but you know, like uh, you know, I don't know,
you know, weight room off just we'll we'll come up
with all kinds of things that will help our listeners, uh,
you know, through the off season. Hopefully it'll be as
good as season four was to us. I thought it
was a really good year. I had a lot of fun,
a lot of a lot of good guests on here. Yeah,

(56:20):
some great guests, some great stories, and uh as always,
I appreciate you appreciate mic and we uh we'll, we'll, we'll,
we'll be ready for you anything on the off season.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
Well, I think we've got We're sometimes I struggle with this,
but I think we've got the right idea. We we
got sort of a general idea, and we definitely want
to talk about player development in the off season. But
at the same time, I mean, the football world's pretty
dynamic and we want to be flexible so that whether
it's a guest or a topic or something comes up. Uh,

(56:56):
you know, we will be able to adjust. Uh you know,
and I know it's a broken record, but it really is.
We're driven by our listeners, and uh that'll have a
lot to do with the direction we go in the
off season. But we're excited. I appreciate you. You know,
you'll never admit this. You started the whole podcast because
I didn't have a job. You felt sorry for me.

(57:16):
But I appreciate it, and I love this podcast and
I look forward to it. And hey, after I've coached
my last season in eighty when I'm eighty one, we're
still going to be doing the podcast. So eat your weeking.
Here we go.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Hey, David, you know the people we can understand that
we have like over three thousand listeners per per episode.
It's what we averaged off the year off year, and uh,
you know, it's it's been a success and we like,
we like doing it, and we'll see you again next year.
We'll see you in the off season first and then
we'll get to you again next season. But thanks for

(57:53):
tuning in and we'll see you next time.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
For the Coach's Office Trivia Timeout Answer twenty four players
who played high school basketball in Kentucky are members of
the one thousand point club at other SEC schools. Which
SEC schools have Kentucky kids in their one thousand point clubs?

(58:21):
The answer Vanderbilt with ten, Tennessee with five, LSU with three,
Alabama with two, and Florida, South Carolina and the Mississippi
State with one each. Join us next time for another

(58:41):
Coaches Office Trivia Time out