Coaches Office with guest Coach Mike Kirschner

The coaches guest is Indianapolis Warren Central Head Coach Mike Kirschner.  Plus the tough topic, games of the week and the Forgotten Hero.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Coach David Buchanan coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Welcome to the Coach's Office Behind the Scenes with Chuck
Smith and David Buchanan. This is season three, Episode ten.
I'm Chuck Smith. I'm joined by co hosts David Buchanan.
Our podcast editor Slash Fact storyteller is Mike Yoakum. Our
social media manager is Noah King Uh. Our YouTube version

(01:07):
of this podcast is at teacock T dot C, dot O,
dot B and uh if you get on there and
access it, if you would uh, you know, hit like
and subscribe, which is free to do, then.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
That helps us out.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
We are very excited we have a great show for
you tonight as we have the the head football coach
out of Indianapolis, Indiana at Warren Central High School, a
perennial power Warren Central High School, Mike Kirshner. Coach Kirshner
has had a great success everywhere that he's been with

(01:43):
a couple of state championships under his bilt. We will
bring Coach Kirshner on here just a second. Our tough
topic for tonight is anonymous and is from an administrator
and it uh. The question is how should uh, how
should the parent of a play or how should the
administrator proceed when he gets a complaint about a coach

(02:08):
from a parent of a player.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
And in this case he agrees with the parent, that's
gonna be tough. That's gonna be a tough one. But
we'll tackle and see what we could do. That's gonna
be a tough one. And then our course of our games.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Our games of the week are North Odon versus Spencer
and Owensboro versus Madisonville North Hopkins. A little bit about
coach Kershner before.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
We bring you on.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Mike Kursner is as I said, he's the head football
coach at Warren Central High School in Indianapolis, Indiana. He
graduated from Warren Central. He played there. He was hired
at Warren Central back in December.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Of twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Prior to that than, he has been the head football
coach at Ben Davis High School in Indianapolis. He was
there for eleven seasons. He won state championships in twenty
fourteen and twenty seventeen. Ben Davis WRNE. That's the largest
class in Indianapolis. He left Ben Davis after twenty seventeen

(03:18):
to become the head football coach at Mount Vernon. He
was there from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty. There he
had a thirty and eight record. In twenty nineteen, they
won the regional title, which was the first time in
school history that they had advanced that far. He's now obviously,

(03:41):
or of course, he's now the head football coach at
Warren Central High School, which I said before is a
perennial power in Indianapolis.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
If you know anything.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
About Indianapolis high school football, it is one of the
most feared programs in Indianapolis. They've won nine state championships there.
His current record is eight one. He's off to a
great start. I got to know him Mike personally, you know,
when I was at the University of Kentucky and I
was recruiting, actually had Ben Davis. Mike was there with

(04:11):
Tom Allen there. But Mike's a great guy, and David
going to bring Michael on.

Speaker 5 (04:16):
Yeah, this is really cool because you know, I think
we've had some Hall of famers on our show, but
coach Kirshner, he's already in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
He is in the Indiana.

Speaker 5 (04:27):
Football Coaches Association Hall of Fame, so that's already quite
an accomplishment. And coach, we're very much honored to have
you on our podcast and thank you so much for
making time for us.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Well. I appreciate the invite. I was kind of caught
off guard when you when you asked me, and UH
kind of jumped into chance to share a little football
and a little bit what we've done up here. And
I'm looking forward to answering some questions.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yes, perfect, thank you, perfect, and off just started. Mike.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
I got the first question for you, and the first
question is, you know, you've worked with some really really
good coaches that have you know, gone on and done
some big things since since you know they left the
school there, But what did you learn from working with
Tom Allen and Dick Delegan UH?

Speaker 3 (05:14):
And just to give some background on.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
There, Tom Allen was the head football coach at UH
at Ben Davis when I met, I mean you were
there with him, and he's left and when he left there,
he went through the college ranks and ended up as
the head football coach at the at Indiana University and
then from there he I think. I think he's currently
the defensive coordinator at Penn State. Uh so, he's had

(05:39):
a whole lot of success. You've worked with him. And
of course, back a few years before that was a
Dick Delegan.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Uh there.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
He was the head coach at Ben Davis as well,
and he won eight state championships and he's in the
Hall of Fame, of course. And he had those old
Bishop Delegan football camps.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
You guys remember those.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I mean, I think we've got some kids to attend
those things.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Those were great. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
Well, I'll start with coach Dellahan. He was instrumental in
almost everything I did. And when you sent me to questions,
the first thing I wrote down was Bishop Dellahan camps.
I started working for them in the late eighties and nineties.
That's how I first got to meet coach d I
called him this true story. I was calling him every

(06:28):
other week starting in January, begging him to hire me
as a coach. He knew nothing about me. I was
coaching little league football, had no connection to anybody, and
finally April May said, look, i'll hire you to do
a middle school camp. I don't know anything about you.
But I'll take a chance that you know what you're doing.
I got done work in the camp, and he says,

(06:48):
are you busy the rest of the summer, because you
can work every camp for me. And this was instrumental
in my development. So I agreed to work all four
of his high school camps. But my deal was with
him is each camp I got to work a different position.
So like I work linebackers, Brock's back, who's the head
coach in Illinois State, was the coordinator of the linebackers, and

(07:09):
then I'd go to Greg Carlson he would coordinate the
DB's and then I can't remember who was coordinating that
first year the wide receivers. And then Chuck Stevens, a
Hall of Fame coach from Indiana, was coaching running back,
so I go listen to him. So I would coach
a position. But I'd get to listen to these coaches,
all Hall of Fame coaches, all college coaches, and they're

(07:31):
just it's like a four day clinic that I don't
pay for that somebody's paying me to work. And this
is and I did that from late eighties all the
way to the early two thousands, and then I started
in the mid probably ninety two or ninety three, working
the Belden linman camp. He was the head coach at Carmel,
another Hall of Famer, rest his soul. And I started

(07:53):
working his lineman camps, and he would have three of them,
and I would I'd say, I'll do o line guards
one time, I want to go d tackles. The next time,
I want to go to d MS. So again, I'm
learning from all these So I'm this twenty eight to
twenty nine year old guy, and I'm just soaking all
this in and and the knowledge Coach d and Coach
Belden allowed me to learn and flourish and just gain

(08:19):
knowledge to that I could then take home to kids.
Whether I was an assistant or a head coach didn't matter.
I knew positions, I knew how to teach technique and
what the latest techniques were. And then you'd sit around
at night with all these coaches Jr. Bishop, Wheaton College,
Hall of Fame. You'd sit around, you just talk football
till ten, eleven, twelve o'clock at night, and then you

(08:41):
get up the next day and you have three more
practices where you're putting all this into play and it's
a lost thing because when COVID hit, the camps went away,
and there's not that same thing. And then in two
thousand and three, with Coach D's health, I started the
down in dirty lineman camps in Illinois and Indiana. Now
I'm running the camps, but I'm hiring all these college guys.

(09:04):
Chris Keevers, the current head coach at U Indy, he's
working my camps, and Andy Hape, who used to be
down in Evansville Wrights, and I'm learning from all these
great line coaches, you know. So it never stopped until
COVID hit and the camps all went away. And it's
unfortunate because what I was able to learn during that time,
I could not put a price tag on as a

(09:25):
football coach. And then in two thousand, Dick Dellahan hires me.
He tried to. He offered me a job in ninety
six and I turned it down. In ninety eight, I
turned it down, and then he offers me a job
in two thousand and the timing was right because my
son was getting ready to be a freshman and I thought,
you know what, he needs to go play for coach
Dellahan and didn't play for dad. He needs to go

(09:45):
play for coach Dellahan, And I thought, what another opportunity,
not just to learn football, but to learn programs. How
do you run a program where you've won eight state titles,
you're dominant, you won two hundred and twelve games in
nineteen years at Ben David phenomenal person, phenomenal. So I
took that. So when I got there, I was the

(10:06):
D line coach for Tom Allen. Tom Allen was the
DC and Dick told me when he hired me, goes,
I got four years. I'm going to get through your
son's senior year and then I'm out.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
And he did.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
He retired right after my son's senior year and Tom
took over for three years, and me and Tom were
really close. Every spring, most people go on spring break.
I think we did once with the family, But our
spring breaks was we went to Florida for a week,
University of Florida, We went to Florida State for a week.
We went to Georgia for a week. Him and me

(10:36):
would get in my old family green van and we
just take off down and we'd find Tom would set
it up and we'd go and so were we would
spend twelve hours in the van talking about what we
learned from those coaches and bouncing ideas off each other
and how to run programs. So when he became the
head coach, I became the decordinator for the three years,
and then he We're at the state clinic one year down.

(10:58):
I don't remember San Antoni, and I told him, Hey,
I've been offered a head coaching job. I'm probably gonna
take it. And he said, don't do that. He says,
I'm going college and I've already told the administration you
need to be the head coach. So that's how I
evolved into the head coach at Ben Davis. And but
I've been really really blessed to be under the leadership

(11:19):
of a Dick Dellahan to Tom Allen to learn football
what I think I like. I said, I can't pay
back in dollars what I was given in all those
years because I'm in my forty first season of coaching
and it's just been phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
It is an awesome story.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
And if you're a young coach and you want to
know how to do it, you need to just take
notes from the from that speech that Mike just gave
that is a great journey and a great way.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
Hey, I don't I don't want to say something sounds
out of place, But what I loved about the things
he was saying is that he was eager to learn
from these guys. He didn't feel like he had to
show vim how smart he was was, you know, And
it's like I.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Think a lot of times now.

Speaker 5 (12:05):
Sometimes I feel like the younger coaches, they're real eager
to show you how smart they are. And I just
I didn't hear that out of coach Kershner. It sounds
like he was the guy that was soaking it up
and learning, And I think it's sort of interesting that
he was soaking it up and learning, and I think
it's turned out pretty good for him.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
What do you think, Chuck, I thought it was awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think it was real aggressive and I think that's
how you do it. If you want to be great,
that's how you do it.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
And I think you listen more than you talk. And
I really appreciate you. And I hope that because we
had a really good following of young coaches. And I
don't mean to be negative about him, but I really
hope they'll take the heart your approach because I think nowadays,
I'm not sure how much of that happens. And I

(12:53):
think that's a great way for all of us to learn.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Coach. I'm still trying to be like that, and I
appreciate you sharing that.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Yeah, I still today. I sit here and watch videos constantly.
The problem I see with young coaches today is like
they'll they'll I'll have an opening and they'll come up
and I say, well, I got a spot on my freshman. Well,
you know, I played college. I ain't starting on the freshman.
And I'm like, I started coaching fifth and sixth graders fellows,
and I learned from fifth and sixth graders out of

(13:19):
coach and be patient and talk through things. And and
even when I was a fifth and sixth grade coach.
Dave Shelborne, another Hall of Famer, was the head coach
at Warren. If he had something going on a Saturday,
he'd turn around and I'd be standing there. He goes,
what are you doing. I said, well, I want to
learn some more, and he'd be like, Okay, come on
in the office. And that's how he hired me a

(13:40):
ninety as a high school coach. He goes, I just
couldn't get rid of you, so I figured I might
as well make you part of the staff. And so
I do think there's some truth to that that we
don't want to spend the time we want to move
up really fast, and I didn't. I spent a long
long time being assistant and just trying to learn from people.
And I think that's a law.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
Start today, well, ay, and I only give all of
us a chance to learn from you in this next question. Okay,
we've had a lot of success in late season in
the postseason. Do you make any adjustments at the latter
part of the season or do things stay the same
as when the season began for you all, Well.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
We adjust. We adjust our practice times, we adjust the
physicality of practice. We never shy away from good on good.
Every Tuesdays our goal line eight plays on the goal line,
best on best and we go at it. Every Wednesday
is a two minute drill, best on best, and we
go at it multiple times. But as the season progresses,

(14:42):
we kind of cut back to save their legs, get
them ready for the tournament. But one thing that doesn't
ever change is what we do in the weight room
in season. I do not ever shy away from pushing
them really hard. They were in the weight room today.
We had a really tough game last Friday, very physical game.
Our kids were kind of banged up a little bit.

(15:02):
We had a tough, tough game with Cathedral, which is
a great programming of itself, fourteen times state champion program
and we were fortunate to pull it out at the end.
And uh, but they were back in the weight room
this morning, and and they will do that. We were
we were on fall break and and you know, everybody thinks,
all right, well just practice. No, they come in the
weight room before we go to practice. I refuse to

(15:23):
back away from that. I learned that from the strength
coach at Ben Davis, Kevin Vanderbush who just retired, uh
in the Strength Coaches Hall of Fame, that even on Friday,
even on Friday, we're gonna bust their butts in that
weight room. And and somebody says, why you do that,
it's a fatigue thing. Well, it's there there that every
kid has that edge when they come in on Friday,

(15:44):
their little nervous edge that kind of takes that edge off.
It also gets the blood flowing and the muscles pumping,
and it gets that nervous energy out of him. And
and we use that and and I'll give you an example. Friday,
We're in the game and we're up, we're up a score,
and they've driven down to our two yard line. It's
third and goal from the two. We call our last
time out. There's fifteen seconds to go in the game.

(16:06):
And I said, you know, this is why you came
in and lifted to day. So when they line up
and make this play, you're gonna hit him in the
freaking mouth. You're not going to question it. You're not
going to back off. You lined up today. I know
they didn't go in the weight room because I know
what they did today. You went in the weight room
for a reason. And all of a sudden, you can
see smiles on their face, and they went and we
just hit him in the mouth, you know, And it's

(16:28):
like game over.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
You know.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
And it's like, I'm not saying that was the difference.
I'm just saying it's a mentality. It's a culture. So
even in season, we are not backing off from our
strength training. This year, we've got the strongest team in
Warren Central history. I got fifty kids who can clean
two thirty five and up, I got another seven who
can do over three hundred. I've got I don't know
thirty some kids that can bench press over three hundred.

(16:52):
We've really taken to heart. Has taken me a few
years to get there, because before I got there wasn't
quite the emphasis it is now. But I think it
pays off late in the season when you're still pounding
to weights in season.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I'm a big believer in that too, Mike. My next
question to you is kind of off season sort of,
but it's you know, what, how do you structure your
off season program? At one centuation, I'm kind of curious.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
In Indiana, can you.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Have weightlifting in school or is everything have to be
done after school hours?

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Okay, I when you told me this question, I really
I break it down into quarters. So our first quarter
starts in December. Everything's in three months, So our December
January February quarter is a big power strength gain quarter,
all right, And what I mean by that is we're
going to lift in class. We have weights in class,

(17:49):
and then they're going to stay after kids not in sports.
I got kids at wrestle I got kids that play basketball.
No issues on our end, but the other eighty or
ninety that are not there with me day Tuesday, Thursday, Friday,
and those are speed development and what we call auxiliary lifts.
So if they back squatted in class on a lower
body day, they are front squatting after school to continue

(18:12):
the lower body and there's ten more lifts. So there's
six lifts in class, ten lifts after school, plus speed development,
and we will do that Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. It's
a four day a week, so if we're off on
President's Day, that means they're lifting Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
They're never getting away from their four day a week mentality.
And we do that right up until we have a

(18:33):
strength competition. We have a four team strength competition where
hammle On, Southeastern Lafayette, jeff Mount Vernon comes in three
hundred kids comes into our school on a Saturday and
we test and the bench squad clean, have a tugle
war competition, have a speed competition, and have a great time,
give away lots of prizes, lots of trophies, and that

(18:55):
is motivation for us in December, January, February to show
up and lift. Then we hit our next quarter. We
go to spring break. Our next quarter is really the
March April May. Now we're allowed to practice. We're allowed
to practice, no pads, no helmet, but we can use
football's bags. We practice three days a week, two hours
of a day, all right, and so we'll go well

(19:17):
and we'll lift before we go out and practice, so
we're never gonna skip that lifting. So we're still gonna
get four lyft days, but now we're gonna add three
practice days and we're gonna do that. It starts in
end of March April May. That gets us up to
summer break. Then the summer summertime is not really a quarter,
it's two months. June is different than July for me.

(19:37):
June is on Monday, Wednesday, Friday lyft and practice. We'll
have no pads practice and now we can put on pads.
Were allowed twelve in the summer. So we'll go some
no pads, some pads. Then we take them. We call
moratorium week first week of July July fourth, we can't
do anything, no contact with our kids. Then we come
back and we have a three week period where we're

(19:58):
gonna lift and run Monday through Thursday. And when I'm
talking run and they're going to run forty forties forty
fifties pyramids, and they're all for time and the team.
The team has to make the time or the run
doesn't count. So now we're teaching them to compete. We
pick what we call our co captains, so we're forcing leadership.
We have leadership meetings with them all winter. We have

(20:21):
leadership meetings trying to build up to that. And then
the last part of that is our August Denver, October, November,
our end season type process. So it's it's laid out
in segments. And I've been doing this for quite some
time this way, and I've never been disappointed with the results.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah, I really I love it.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I love how you got it structured and mapped out
like that, and I wonder if you've had so much success.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
Hey, coach, he my next question for you. You know, you're
in Indianapolis, we're in Kentucky, and then obviously we're a
very high level in Indiana. What trends do you see
going forward in the game of football? Are you seeing
more zone for example, versus man coverage or vice versa.
Do you see the future of the game under center

(21:08):
and more shotgun? You know, in Kentucky. It's most teams
now are playing a four to two five, or they're
playing the thirty tight with four eyes, or is there
another defense. I'm just wondering what what trends are you
seeing in the football that you're playing in And I mean,
you guys are playing some of the best football in
the country. I just I just wonder what you're what

(21:30):
you see coming down the road.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Okay, we we're a four to two five ourselves, and
we're a spread offense. We're we're in gun, we're under center.
Just about everybody we play is in the gun.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
We played Carmel a couple of weeks ago. They never
got under center one time. Lately, we've been seeing a
lot of thirty fronts. In fact, our last three games
we've seen three three stack three fours. Our next two
opponents in the tournament will both be three four Actually,
our next three teams will be three four teams, which
seems to be the trend. We're more of a four

(22:03):
man front because of some of the linemen we have
this year. I think the biggest trend and I don't
know what you guys see down in Kentucky. The hardest
position for us to fill is O line the kids.
The kids aren't playing. You know, I've got two hundred kids.
I got two hundred kids on my program nine through twelve.
But the number of O linemen that I consider good

(22:25):
quality O lineman is just not what it is. So
now all of a sudden, you got to think, all right,
I can't I can't just line up and knock you
and knock you off the ball. So now the spread,
I think becomes a bigger, bigger deal because I got
athletes I can get in space. If I can get
them the ball, we make make them misa tackle, We
can do things. So I think the spread becomes a bigger,

(22:45):
bigger deal. Even some of our big powerhouses like Center Grove,
who's been wing tea forever as in the last three years,
have gone almost predominantly spread. He's running very little wing tea.
And that's what Eric Moore, Hall of Famer, has hung
his hat on for for his entire career, from when
he was in Florida to now up here in Indiana.
So I think some of the smaller schools a place

(23:10):
I used to be called Cascade, they're they're wing tea.
You know, I think it fits them. But for the
big schools like US, I think it's I don't know
if it's just and everybody gets mad about the specialization
of sports. I don't know that it makes me mad.
I get it. We've got a couple of wrestlers who
are really good. I mean, the one is probably going

(23:30):
to go to Penn State. So he quit playing football.
And I kind of looked at him and patted him
on the back. I said, you're right, you know, you're
you're you're right now, you're one hundred and forty. And oh,
don't come out here and bust a knee. Go wrestle
for Penn State and have a good time, you know.
And but we we do a pretty good job of
sharing athletes. I got several starters on the basketball team
playing for me and and you know, we didn't practice

(23:52):
today because we don't play for two weeks because the
way attorney set up, you know. And he called me
and said, you might have go shoot hoop for the
basketball team. Don't go shoot hoops, just don't play five
on five shoots. I think there's a lack of sharing
and and and I don't know. And I think as
the game evolves, you got to kind of change what
you're going and and I think you also have to

(24:15):
adapt with your personnel.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes, sir, I think in high school you've got to
share athletes, you really do it. And I agree that
a lot of the bigger kids just aren't playing, uh
you know, and that's your offensive lineman. Usually they're not
playing like they used to in the past. They got
so many other things that catch their attention are interested
in doing it.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
There's kids walk in our halls that I just look
at them and go, good god son. You know you.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Could have your college paid for it.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Yeah, I'm in a rebuild, I mean year two, and
I'm at a place that Chuck and I both used
to coach against. And you would not believe the two
X and three x almost brand new shoulder pads, and
Chuck or Anderson County had some monstrous good offensive linemen

(25:06):
just five and six years ago. And our kids are
getting better and we're making progress. But I told some
of my bosses to day, I said, if I could
just find some kids that can wear those big shoulder
page y'all had here seven eight years ago, I said,
I think I think that'd be a pretty good deal.
But I got them sitting in the equipment room, and uh,
those those cats are they're not walking in that locker

(25:26):
room right now.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
They're just I'm with you, I agree, And not that
we don't have some big kids. I got a big
guard who's going to Notre Dame and but we just
it's just not it's not what it used to be.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Just hey, Mike, the last question we have for you is, hey,
you know, social media is pretty big right now. You know,
how have you used social media to promote your football
program and also promote your players.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
I'll tell you what social media for us is huge.
I've got a I've got a guy on my staff.
When I got to one, I found out how to
stipend for a guy my staff. He's my video guy.
He does all my videos, he does all my game videos,
cuts everything up for me, gives me like like a
college guy. But he also does all our all our
videos for all our kids. So we do we have

(26:14):
what we call Media Day. So in July we do
a specific thing for Media Day. That is, we create
a theme for each home game. Then we do a
video for each home game that gets blasted out on
Friday morning early to pump that game up. And it's
on Instagram, it's on Twitter, it's on Facebook, and it's
it's unbelievable what we do with our videos. We're we're

(26:36):
an exclusive Adidas school. And what I mean by that
is we have what's similar to a very to a
college contract. We have five different color jerseys. We have
a gold to gray, a black, a white, and a pink.
We have five different kinds of pants, Adida's pants. We
have a shut contract. So we have three helmets. We
have a gold helmet, a white helmet, and a black helmet.

(26:56):
And so all this is on our video and it's
in fact, Adidas saw the first video we put out
this year. I have a young man who's in college
that wants to get into the sports world. So he
came and helped us do the video. And Adida has
got ahold of our video called us up. I introduced
him to the young man. They've taken their video. They
showed it to their corporate office as what we're doing

(27:18):
at the high school level and what we should be
doing maybe at the college level. And so we're really
big into that because I think it brings kids into
our community. I think kids want to come play for
us because they think something special is happening out there.
And then what we do for our kids and what
I do way different. We created an entire book for

(27:38):
our kids that has their hand size, their wingspans, their height,
their weight, their bench, their squad, their GPA, their Twitter handle,
their Instagram and this book has given out to all
the colleges that come in and you know as well
as I chuck from when I was at Ben Davis,
we get a lot of traffic and at Warren Central
we get a lot of traffic because we have kids
who can play at the next level. And then we

(27:59):
do highlight for our kids. We send them out. We
mass email all the schools. I've got an IVY League kid.
Now I'm trying to get an IVY League coach to
pick up on.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
So we are.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
I have always been very proactive in getting my kids
to college. When I was at Ben Davis, the national
average is about five and a half six percent of
kids that are seniors go to college play football at
any level. When I was at Ben Davis that number
was at forty two percent. And now that I'm at
Warn after three years of my senior class, fifty percent

(28:30):
of my kids in the last three years have gone
off to college play football at some level, so we're
really promoting it. I have two ladies who are my
academic advisors. They're counselors, and they volunteer to help take
care of the football program. Like they set up a
meeting for me tomorrow night. I got a kid going
to Louisville. He's struggling. They set up the meeting with
the parents, They sit down, we go through the transcript,

(28:51):
we go through the classes he's missing. They do all
this for me so I don't have to do it.
And so the program is a little bit collegiate like
and that we're doing everything in our power between our
study tables on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, my academic advisors, my
social media, my recruiting process. I shouldn't say my hour
that we do for the kids to help them possibly

(29:13):
change their lives, because you've been up to Indianapolis. I
deal with some rough kids, all right. I deal with
some kids that come from some broken homes that need help.
And this is game changing if I can get them
to college.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
It sure is. It really is. Coach's impressive. That is
a complete program. And I tell you what I think
when I listen to you talk. I can see how
a guy like Tom Allen makes a jump from being
a high school coach to the head coach at in
the Big Ten. You guys, you guys got it going on.
You all know your stuff. You're good at it, very good.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Like they're in Indianapolis, y'all got like or it's kind
of divided up into like townships, and they got their
own tax base and they have their own school, like
you know Carmel.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
You know, warn ours is.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Warren Township, Warren Central High School. I draw the kids
from our township. We also have open enrollment so kids
can come from outside the township, but there are rules
as far as transferring and all that within the ISSA.
You know, we're very fortunate this year. I got forty
I started the season with forty eight seniors. I think
we're forty six right now. They're still playing. You know,

(30:24):
We've got two hundred kids nine through twelve winning at
every level. So things are going pretty well for us.
Right It's a good year. I'm not gonna lie having fun.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Good luck to you, congratulations, you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Good Luck to you, Mike, and I hope you hope
you win it. All and appreciate you being on our show.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
Well, I appreciate you inviting me. Thanks guys, take care
of me.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Thank you. Coach David. Well, that was really interesting on
wasn't that.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
Yeah? That was that is a whole other That's a
whole other world of high school football, it really is.
And it's impressive, you know what he's able to get
done that.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
That was really really good recruiting up thereon.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
I found that really, I mean, you should see these
schools and their facilities. They're you know, they're top. You know,
they're they're you know, state of the art and their
athletic facilities, their schools, everything, and it's really it's really impressive.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
And they they've been able to do that with those townships.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You know, I always say that if Jefferson County would
have done that years ago, you know, instead of having
all those schools under one board of education, you know it,
it might have been completely different.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Look in Jefferson County.

Speaker 5 (31:38):
Well, you know, it's funny you bring that up, and
we both used to teach history, but I think it's
the Northwest Ordnance and they would have set up a
township and in the township, one block of that township
was set up to generate money for public schools, and
I mean it was very successful. It works well, and

(31:59):
I think there's still reaping the benefits. You know, John,
Colmbs and Trish and I we used to go to
Notre Dame every year for the last home game and
we got to see a game at Carmel one night.
And that I mean there's colleges don't have stadiums like Carmel, Indiana.
I mean it was it was impressive. So, uh, that's

(32:20):
really cool. That's really cool, and I'm I'm glad you
got him. He was a huge That's what we really
need a lot.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Of information, a lot of information for our listeners. We
move on to the tough topic anonymous from an administrator.
How should an administrator proceed when you get a complaint
about a coach from a parent of the player, and
in this case, the administrator agrees with the parent.

Speaker 5 (32:47):
What do you think, Oh, man, Well, here, I'm gonna
give it a shot. But I think you gotta listen.
You gotta listen carefully. And I think it's one of
those times that you gotta be like coach Kershner, which
means I need to keep my mouth shut and they
need to keep my ears open. I think you give
no indication to the parent that you agree. You don't
let them know that, but you ask the parent to

(33:09):
follow the procedure step forth by the head coach. You say, okay,
so how does the coach want you to handle that? Well,
I think that's how you need to handle it. Then
I think you need to give your head coach a
heads up about the conversation. If a head coach asked
your opinion, then I think you tell them if it's serious,
if it's significant enough, you might have a conversation with

(33:30):
your coach about that issue. But I think you got
to use a little judgment of you don't need to
be telling your coach what play to run. But if
it's a cultural thing, if it's a sort of a
big item that is going to really continue to have
a big impact, you might want to say something about.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
You know, coach, I think this is something you need
to take a look at.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
And you know, I worked for Homer Goings at Paris
High School, and you know he never came to me
with a complaint, but I went in Homer's office lot
to hear what he thought because I just I valued
it I didn't want to share one story. I'm not
going to get into any names. I had an assistant
coach one time make a really big mistake, and to

(34:14):
his credit, he immediately said to me, Coach, I screwed up.
I will handle it, and I will take care of it.
And he took care of it. I never had to
get involved, and it all worked out fine, and that
particular coach has gone on to a very successful career.
And I think in all these things, it always gets

(34:36):
back to you can't underestimate how important it is that
you hire.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
The right people and the best people, because in.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
The long run, even if you disagree with that coach,
if you've made a good hire in that role, you're
probably gonna be okay. If you've made a poor hire,
it's probably going to deteriorate and it's going to get tough.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
I loved your answer the you know, especially the first
part where you you know, walk through the but you
have an administrative degree and everything, so you probably on
top of that.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
But I thought it was a really good answer.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
Well, hey, I have zero days if I've been an administrator.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
I don't want to do that. I love coaching, but
go ahead, I believe you got to know the extent
and severity of the complaint.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
You know, obviously, if it was something that was criminal
or illegal or even against policy, then needless to say,
you'd have to handle it immediately. But we're just huming
that it's a you know, kind of a minor complaint.
You know, maybe something like, uh, you know, culture, or
you're working the kids too hard, or you're too hard
on my kid, or you're too demanding with your expectations, uh,

(35:44):
something like that. If that's the case, then you know,
I think you asked the parent to deal with it
by meeting with the head coach you know, have have
and I don't know any coaches didn't have an open
door policy. Uh. Then bite's parentsy in you know, uh
and and to talk about issues with their child. So

(36:05):
I think that I would as an administrator, I would
tell the head the parent to meet with that head
football coach in person, not through text, not through email,
but meet with him in person. And most of the
problems are a result of lack of communication, as you know,
and most of the time it'll be handled in this
meeting with.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
The head football coach.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
And now, if if you get in there and it's
non handled then and I would, as you said, I
would give the head football coach, you know, the heads
up that the parent did call and they want to
they're gonna want to meet with you. I think that's
a great idea. And uh, but I think if it's
not handled, then I think, you know, as an administrator,
you've got to start looking into it by gathering information,

(36:49):
asking the head football coach, you know, what would his
side of the story and what he thought about it,
and then you know, kind of go from there. I
think that as an administrator too, you know, you you
have to consider the source.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
And if you have a you know, a parent, because
you know, there's some parents that just complain about everything,
and if you have a comparent that doesn't calls a
lot and complains a lot about various things, trivial things,
And I think as an administrator, just kind.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Of handled that and never even you know, bring it
up or never even involved the head football coach.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
But that's just a you know, a discretionary judgment that
as an administrator you have to make.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
You know.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
I remember when I first did boil.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Years after I left, you know, our superintendent, and I'm
you know, ran into each other, and uh, he said, Man,
I used to get complaints on you about it once
a week.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
He said. They were about, you know, about working them
too hard.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
And practicing too long, and you know and boil and
that sort of thing. And he said, I like the
way he said he had a kind of old school
He just said, you know, that's our coach, that's who
we hired.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Was gonna stick with him till we know different.

Speaker 5 (38:03):
You know, Yeah, I like that, But but I would
also add this though, in that situation, one thousand percent,
your boss agreed with you, and in our situation it.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Would it would be like if he thought they were right.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
But I've heard you tell that story before and I
really appreciate that type of leadership. That that's a that's
a great principle to have if you're.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
A head football coach. That's good stuff.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, man, you you brough up a good point. The
question was he he agreed with the parent. So I
think I think we hit on some things that you
know that that that that would help the administrator, if
you know, will handle that situation. It's a tough one.
That was a tough one. That was one of the
tough ones we've had.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
Yes, it is a tough one. I agree. Uh, all right,
so hey, let's get into our game of the week.
Our first one is a big district matchup for I
believe a home playoff game. Franklin County is gonna win
that district, I believe. But North Oldham and Spencer County
are playing Frank Roberts, who we've had as a guest
on our podcast as our head coach.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
They beat Western Hills last week thirty seven to nothing
to go six and two on the season. Their quarterback
Colin Daniels already passed over a thousand yards. Their leading
receivers Lucas Thompkins and Gray Schmiddle. Their top running backs
their Zachary Mortenson and Kingston Dougan. And then Zachary Mortenson

(39:32):
also is one of their leaders on defense. So I mean,
the North old has got a nice football team and uh,
you know they they may be able to do some
damage in November.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Are you pick? Are you picking a team for this game?

Speaker 5 (39:48):
I'm gonna let you give us the breakdown on Spencer
County and then I'll pick as I want to depend
on what you say about Spencer County.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I'll tell you a little bit about Spencer. Spencer is
the head football come which is Mike Marksbury. And Mike
has done an outstanding job there.

Speaker 3 (40:04):
He really has.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
You know, they started the Spencer County football program is
not that old. It's only about twenty years old. It
started in twenty or two thousand and four. He took
over the program in twenty eleven, and he has just
had He's just done a fantastic job of building a
program there. He's taking it to another level, built a
culture there. In twenty twenty one, they were nine and

(40:28):
four and made it to the third round of the playoffs.
In twenty twenty two they were ten and two, and
last year he was seven and six. Currently he's off
to a six and two start. It's got a really
nice team this year. He's led by at the quarterback
position Jared Stewart, and I believe he's a freshman if

(40:50):
I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
But they're a running team now.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
They I know he's got wing t background, but they're
a running team.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Got a you know, a committee of backs.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Jake Green, Caleb Higden, Danny Armstrong and Amari McCarthy all
carried the load at that running back position.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Now listen to this, David.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
They have not completed a pass now, they've not completed the.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Path in the last three weeks.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
But they've only attempted seven passes in the last three games.
So you know they are a running football team. They
they you know they they But they've been racking up
the arts. They've been they've been having a lot of success.
That's what they do, that's the culture, that's what they do.
I'll tell you this, The future looks right at Spencer
County because I have connection to two of the players

(41:47):
on that football team.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
My my brother's grandson is a freshman on that team,
Isaiah Smith. And if he can play football anything like
his grandfather, then by golly, the future looks white there
because his grandfather could flat out play my brother.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
He was a heck.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
He was a heck of a football player, uh, dominating
type of football player in high school.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
He was.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
He played at jay Down High School. And if Isaiah
has got Isaiah's got that bloodline and him, so he
should uh he should be ready to contribute next year
for Spencer County. And then the other guy is I
coached his dad, Adam Tammy. His name is Tucker Tammy.
He's a freshman on that football team too. And I

(42:35):
coached his dad, Adam Tammy at Boyle County and Adam
was one heck of a football player hisself. He was
on on several of the I think he won to
state championship every year he played. And and then his
his daddy was, which is Tucker's grandfather, is Steve Tammy
and I are really good friends and have been good

(42:58):
friends for a long time. I credit Steve a lot
for the success we had at boy in terms of
the quarterback club. He was outstanding in that area. But
I think Spencer County has got a really good team.
They're going to be really physical, and I gotta go
with Spencer County.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I did well.

Speaker 5 (43:18):
I agree with everything you've said about Spencer County, but
I think because they are so young. You know Jake
Green for example, he's a freshman, and you know I
know Mike because we're in the same JV conference. I mean,
I know this won't shock you. There's only three people
left I can get along within a JV conference. It's
Mike Marksberry, Jerry Lucas and Matt Wright. We've got a

(43:38):
JV freshman conference and it's been really good for all
four of our programs.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
So I talked to Mike and they've had a lot of.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
Injuries this year, and he's really proud of his kids.
He's proud of his kids and what they've done. So look,
I think those are two really good coaches and programs.
I think right now Northold just got a little more experienced.
And uh, this time next year, I might pick Spencer
County to win it, but right now, I think I
just think north Oldlin's got the edge on now.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
They may have, but maybe and maybe I'm just a
little bit biased too.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
That's okay with my brother, and there's Brand's son, and
I'm gonna pull for them.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Hey they're they're nothing all with that, that's for sure.
And hey, you left out his grandmother is immaging Tammy?

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Is she sure it?

Speaker 5 (44:25):
I'm like that out now, Imma Jean, She's she's got
that good Bull County roofs going back, uh in the
early seventies. So uh, that's a pretty good foundation there. Now,
that's that's pretty dang good. So hey, so here's our
next one. We got Owensborough versus Madisonville North Hopkins. I've
got Owensborough I'm gonna let you go first.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
This time you got I.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Got Madisonville North Hopkins. They're currently six and two, so
I think we got a nice team. They had a
nice team last year too, in twenty twenty three, they
were eight and three. Chris Price as their head football coach.
He's gonna great job. He took over that program in
twenty twenty one and twenty two he was seven and five.

(45:06):
Twenty three he was eight and three, and this year
he's already off to a six and two start. He's
got some players now, he's got a couple of you
stud players. His quarterback is Canyon Johnson.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
He's a dual threat.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
I've seen him last year in person, and he was
a he was a.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Tall, long kid and he could flat play. He could run,
he could throw.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
He had all the tools that he needed to be,
you know, highly successful. The running back is Marquise high
Tire and he just had some monster games. I mean
he had two hundred and fifty seven yards rushing against
Fort Campbell and Fort Campbell's got a pretty nice football
team this year, and he had two hundred and forty

(45:49):
eight yards in one game against Muhlenberg.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
So this guy can play. Now, he's got some movie.

Speaker 5 (45:56):
He's a three star. I think he's rated a three start.
He's just a you're right, he's he's the real deal.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
He's good.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
You know, he's got some wheels. And the receiver that
holds down the receiving corps. The leading receiver is Ryder
sand Each. Now they're playing Odinsborough and they're playing at Onsboro,
and it's really really hard to play in Owinsborough. They
just got that. They got that tradition. It's hard to
play in that stadium.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
They played better there, it's no doubt about it. Last
year David Madisonville North Hopkins beat Oninsborough, but they beat
them at Madisonville. They beat him forty five to thirty eight.
Owensboro won't let that happen this year. I just don't
think it will not in their own stadium.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
I'm gonna have to do Borough. Well.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
Hey, so I've got Owensborough Jay Fallon as their head coach.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
They're five and three.

Speaker 5 (46:50):
Uh. For the Kentucky fans out there, this is Gavin
Wimsy's Wims said. I'm not sure said his last thing correctly,
but the quarterback at UK this is where he went
to high school. He went to ones Where high school.
He was there when Jeffries, our friend was the O
c uh Right. Now, their quarterback is Trevor de Lacy.
He's a young guy that I've got to work with.

(47:11):
He's averaging over one hundred and eighty yards passing per game.
Evan Hampton is leading UH is leading the rushing game
at about one hundred and twenty yards. Defensively, they're led
by Ty Ashley and Elijah Hampton. You know, you gotta
watch compare scores. If I compare scores, and if we're

(47:35):
a neutral site, I might go with Madisonville North Topkins,
but I'm not gonna compare scores. And they're playing at Owensborough,
and I just I'm with you. I think ones Is
probably gonna have the edge in this one. But I
do really like happening at Madisonville.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, and the ones where a running back is the
real deal too.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Now, I mean there's gonna be two running backs that
are the real doing this game. The one at Oninsborough.
I think he's been offered by several people too, But
he's a he's a stud now, he he's a he's
a big time player, and that quarterback for Oddsboro was
really really good as well.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
He can really throw it. It'll be a it'll be
it'll be a good game, that will be.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
But the reason I'll give the edge to Winsboro was, uh,
simply because you know they're playing Adam Winsborough and they're
hard to beat.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
There I got you.

Speaker 5 (48:27):
Well, hey, uh, I gotta give you a shout out. Uh,
you did a great job at South Warren this past week.
You all had a big win against an excellent opponent
in Bowling Green and we got to talking about Abbey
Road last week and being our very best uh tomorrow
and so forth. And as congratulations to you on a
job well done and being an old friend, I'm awful

(48:49):
proud of you, and uh, I've been pretty vocal lately
about bragging on you and talking about what a great
job you did.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
So congratulations. Well, thank you, David. It was a great game.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Our kids played so hard, are you know, we we
got a few breaks in the game and was able
to win it.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
You know, and you know, Bully Greens got one heck
of a football team this year. They really are. They're
they're very, very talented, and uh, it was a good win.
For us, it really was and I appreciate that.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
Hey, well, congratulations and a next week you know again, Uh,
you know, we're we're working like crazy to do a
great job for our listeners.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
So we're we're gonna go out on a limb a
little bit again. Next week.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
L c A and Raceland are gonna they're gonna be
playing one of the biggest games in the state.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Well, we're gonna.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
Have their two head coaches on the show together. Doug Charles,
the head coach at l c A, Mike samon is
the head coach at Raceland, and they're getting ready to
play each other, and we're gonna have them together on
the podcast, And uh, I really appreciate their willingness to
do it, and I think it's I think it's gonna
be a great episode. And I sure wouldn't want to

(49:59):
miss a podcast that's got two guys coaching really good
programs that are getting ready to face each other in
that last week. Sonna, It's gonna be a lot of fun,
almost as good as when we add you and Sam
harp On a few weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
That's the same deal.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
That's gonna be exciting, David. It really is that's that's
gonna be exciting. Two good programs, and right before they play,
it's gonna be good.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Yes, sir, I bet you. I agree.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Hey, listeners, please hang on for mac Yoakum's historical segment.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
It's always good.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
You'll never be disappointed and appreciate you guys to today
and listening.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
Sports, and in particular, high school sports, are woven into
the fabric of Americana. High school sports are part of
the DNA of communities across the country, and that is
certainly true in Kentucky. Fans know the stories of the
big names, but there are many names and many stories
that have been lost to history. This series highlights those forgotten.

(51:04):
He rose, Welcome to Forgotten Heroes. I'm your host, mack Yokum.

Speaker 7 (51:14):
Many of my episodes are about athletes or coaches whose
exploits were lost to time. Some are about figures that
were icons in a bygone era, but who today's audiences
should never forget. This episode is about one such coach.
This coaching legend hailed from Floyd County, Kentucky. He was

(51:35):
born in Whalen, attended school in McDowell, and graduated from
Whilwright High in nineteen forty one. His high school nickname
was Scale, and Scale was captain of both the football
and basketball teams at Wilwright. His senior football season, he
quarterbacked Willwright to a one hundred to nothing win over Vico,

(51:57):
and on the hardwood as a senior, he averaged sixty
points a game, and he scored over one thousand career
points at a time when that was virtually unheard of.
Willwright was one of the largest coal mining towns, and
Scale went to work in the mines before he enlisted
for service during World War Two. At one point during
the war, Scale was a gunner aboard a B twenty

(52:19):
four bomber that was shot down over Austria, and he
and his crew were POW's. After the war, he got
his degree from Tulane on the gi Bill. Scale returned
to eastern Kentucky to start his coaching career. He spent
two years at Prestonsburg in one year at Whalen, and
then he got a call to take over a team

(52:42):
that was playing six man football. That school was Bartstown
and Scale was the legendary Garness Martin. He turned Bardstown
six man team into an eleven man powerhouse. His coaching
career is one the top two or three all time
in Kentucky. As football coach, Garnis Martin was two seventy one, one,

(53:08):
fourteen and seven and he was the all time winning
his coach in Kentucky high school football history when he retired.
He won three state titles and had one runner up finish.
He had five unbeaten seasons and coaching numerous All staters.
He coached the basketball Tigers for twenty two seasons, also

(53:28):
going three sixty five and two eighty four, winning eleven
district titles and two regional titles. He coached the Barstown
baseball team and when the track coach got sick, Coach
Martin took over that program and went on to win
multiple regional titles in two state titles, and for good measure,
he ran the pro shop at my old Kentucky Home

(53:50):
golf course in the summer. He's in the Kentucky Association
of Basketball Coach's Court of Honor, the Kentucky Sports Hall
of Fame, the khsaa A Hall of Fame, and the
National Federation of State High school School's Hall of Fame.
He was the Bargetown Citizen of the Year in nineteen
sixty eight, and the Garness Martin Outstanding Coach of the

(54:12):
Year Award is presented annually in his honor. From humble
beginnings in eastern Kentucky Coletown to the pinnacle of high
school coaching, Coach Garness Martin is a coach whose exploits
should never fade away. Coach Martin passed away in nineteen
ninety eight.

Speaker 8 (55:00):
It sounds sound something. The assigned the bok. The assigned

(56:09):
the decided to do.

Speaker 6 (56:24):
It, to do it, and to do

Speaker 7 (01:10:27):
Join us next time for another edition of the Coach's
Office podcast and another football flashback.