coaches office with guest Larry Vaught

The coaches welcome legendary sportswriter Larry Vaught to the show.  Plus the tough topic, playoff picks and a new Forgotten Heroes segment

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Coach David Buchanan Coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the

(00:33):
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Coach's Office behind the scenes with Chuck
Smith and David Buchannan. This is season three, episode fifteen. Already,
I'm Chuck Smith. I'm joined by co host David Buchanan,
podcast editor, flashback storyteller.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Mike yoakum Are you?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
YouTube version of this podcast is at tea coop at
T dot C, dot O dot P. If you hit
if you hit the subscribe and like then it helps
us out. Hey, what a great show we have planned
for you tonight. We have Larry Vault, an icon among
sports writers in the state of Kentucky. He's covered high

(01:22):
school and UK sports since the early mid seventies. We're
very excited to have you on and we'll bring you
on here shortly. Our tough topic for tonight is anonymous. Again,
they've been really good anonymous questions that we've had to
deal with. How do you build a mental toughness in
a society that increasingly removes obstacles from kids? A very

(01:47):
good question I'm anxious to hear what Davis got to
say about that. The games of the week this week
we'll pick the state finalists because we're down to the
semi finals right now, so exciting time for high school football.
We'll get to that just a bit first. A little
bit about Larry before we get started. Larry has a

(02:07):
multiple He's a multiple time winner of Kentucky Sports Writer
of the Year award. I believe seven or more times
he's won that award.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
He's been covering.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
High school and UK sports, as I said, since the
early seventies. He worked at The Advocate Messenger in Danville
for more than forty years, and he was the sports
editor from the mid nineties through twenty fifteen. He took
over for his dad, Bill Bault, and that was a
great newspaper during its heyday.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
It really was. I mean, everybody you know, that's where
you got all your information. It was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
He now has a syndicated UK sports column appearing over
thirty newspapers and websites across the state. He has been
or he has won numerous Kentucky Press Association writing awards.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
He's with Tom Leach and UK Sports. I think on
Tuesday nights.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
He's still and then remember, uh, then he is a
member of numerous hall of fames. I mean the Kentucky
High School Athletic Association Hall of Fame, the Dan Bullet
Sports Hall of Fame, the Twelfth Region, et cetera, et cetera.
He's a member of a lot of hall of fames.
Larry has been a strong advocate for high school sports

(03:28):
in central Kentucky ever since I've known him. He's been
really supportive and a strong advocate for high school sports.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
If you want to know anything at all about UK sports,
then Larry is the guy to ask.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
You know, he knows them all. He he's a great guy.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
He's always supported both David and myself.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
We both appreciate that. David, you want to bring Larry on.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard for me to pull this
off and not run the shell over just bringing him
on the show.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
But you know, my first.

Speaker 4 (04:02):
Memory really is more of his dad and my dad
and their relationship. You know, my dad could be sort
of tough to get along with, but he loved Bill Vott.
He had tremendous respect for Bill. And you know, then
Larry carried on that great tradition, and you know, he
was really.

Speaker 5 (04:19):
Good to me even at Mason County.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I could call him about Dustin Grootzer or Chris Lopton
or Harry Lewis or Bill Passage, Josh Harris, and he
took care of those guys.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
I mean, he would get him in there.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
And I just this is neat for me because besides that,
he is, as you just grazed, and he's an icon
in Kentucky sports. He feels like family to me. I mean,
our families go back to nineteen sixty nine. I was
four years old Bill and my dad. So this is
a big honor and I'm really glad that it's Thanksgiving

(04:54):
because this is very much to me. This is very
much a family episode. And I'm mister thank you. And
I still got to call him mister Vob like I'm
you know, like I'm playing quarterback at Mercer Kenny High
and he's still mister He was mister Vod in nineteen
eighty two. Uh, He's mister Vodd in twenty twenty four,
as far as I'm concerned. So hey, mister vo thank

(05:15):
you so much for making time for us, well my pleasure.

Speaker 6 (05:18):
I hope I can live up long enough where you
can just make it.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
Larry, I don't know that's gonna be.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
I tell you what, if I hit eighty and I'm
still coaching, I'm gonna call you Larry that last season.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
Okay, that's a deal.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Hey, y, Larry, I'll started off here. I mean, you
have interviewed so many people over the years. I was
just curious, and I'm sure that we got listeners that
are curious about you know.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Who was your all time favorite coach to interview? Now?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
It can't It can't be me or David Now I'd
like besides us.

Speaker 7 (05:55):
That's that's really a hard question because there's really not
many that I haven't enjoyed interviewing, And that's kind of
the beauty of high school sports. Most the time, high
school coaches are really glad to talk to you because
they don't have to talk to near the number of
media people that like a University of Kentucky coach does.
So there's been very few coaches that I've not enjoyed

(06:19):
talking to over the years. Probably two of my favorites
were Alvis Johnson and Eg Plummer, but not alas the
football coach, but Alvis the track coach because him and
EG competed against each other for so many years and
just basically tried to outlie each other, telling you how

(06:40):
good everybody else was and how bad their teams were.
And sometimes I just kind of got tickled listening to
what they were saying. And just from a fun standpoint,
they were probably two of my very favorites that I
ever dealt with.

Speaker 6 (06:56):
And then I always liked.

Speaker 7 (06:58):
Ed Rall, coach at Bull County when I was first
starting out, because the one thing I learned that what
they would ever tell you that he was getting ready
tell you the honest truth.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
That was his.

Speaker 7 (07:08):
That was his, Like he was playing poker, that was his.
You knew he was lying. He was telling you the
honest truth. You knew he was lying about that. So
but but there's really been so many over the years
that everybody's always been so good and gracious to me
about talking. Of course, a lot of times they didn't
give me a choice, but if I didn't want to talk,

(07:28):
I just kept hanging around till they finally I had
to talk.

Speaker 6 (07:31):
And then didn't give a choice.

Speaker 7 (07:32):
But I also always tried to remember that one thing
my father told me when I first started out, and
that was that you couldn't hold anything against a coach
or a player that they said the first hour after
a game, because they said, they're going to be emotional.
Sometimes their mouth's going to go off before their brain
goes off, and you said, you have to use a
little common sense about maybe, okay, maybe I don't need

(07:55):
to use that quote that they said right there, because
in the heat of the moment, and sometimes win or lose,
sometimes you'll say things that maybe you wish you could
kind of have back. And I would like to think
that over the years, I kind of learned what those
comments were when not to use those that hopefully maybe
that keep me a little respect with some different coaches.
But I always tried to remember that. But I really

(08:18):
never had anybody that I could just say I didn't like.
Probably the only one person I would say and this
would get up to the collegiate level, and that would
have been Billy Gilespie And I mean, he was just
he just treated everybody bad and didn't answer.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
But other than that, everybody I really like.

Speaker 7 (08:38):
I mean, I always enjoyed talking to collegiate level with
Joe Hall, really enjoyed talking with him a lot. And
I also liked a lot talking to the coaches of
so called minor sports who didn't get a lot of
attention because they were always willing to talk forever and
they had as many good stories to share as anybody else.

Speaker 6 (08:58):
Because I was not thing.

Speaker 7 (08:59):
My father told me that to the people that are
playing or coaching, there are no minor sports, but their
sport was just as important as anybody else's sport, and
you had to try to remember that. And over the
years I sometimes had people that work with me or
for me that had a hard time remember when they
went to a softball game or a wrestling match, or

(09:21):
a golf tournament or a girls basketball game that that
was just as important to do a good job when
you were at that is what it was to do
it when you're at a high school football or basketball game.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, Larry always took good care of us.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
But I know when he's interviewed me a few times,
and you know your dad told you about that rule
of when I hire afterwards, that was a great That
was a great piece of advice, because I know I've
said some things I said, man, I just later on
I thought.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
About it and reflected on I said, I don't know
how that's going to come out. That might come out
pretty bad. And then every time I read it in
the paper, you always took good care of me.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
So I appreciate that he along those lines. Hey, I'm
gonna put you on the spot, mister bod. I've said
for the last forty years, the only guy that worked
for Larry French that tells the truth is me. Juck
didn't tell the truth. Coach French doesn't tell the truth. Jack,
Chris Bardu, Chris Mason, none of them tell the truth.

Speaker 5 (10:18):
Would would you?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Would you say that's a correct statement or I mean,
you don't think I lie too, do you?

Speaker 5 (10:23):
I'm just wondering what you think.

Speaker 6 (10:26):
I would think those guys sometimes embellish a little bit.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
They probably like that word yeah on what.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
They're doing like that.

Speaker 7 (10:35):
But I think that's sometimes it's just kind of part
of what coaches do, and you just kind of have
to roll with it and understand that's what they are
are doing because and.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
I understand too, it's hard for a coach. I mean,
you were a chuck. Aren't gonna tell me? But to
be honest, there we don't have a chance for Friday.

Speaker 7 (10:50):
You all might kind of know it deep down, but
you're not going to come out and say that. Or
you're also not going to come out and say, well,
if we don't beat this team eighty telf there's something
wrong with us tonight. So you kind of have to
understand where a coach is coming from on some of
that kind of things too. I mean, I can remember
one night when I was over Hairburg covering Alvis Johnson,
and I think his team won sixty three to nothing

(11:13):
or something like that, some outrageous score, and I waited
forever for the locker room go but I don't know
what was going on there, how could be that?

Speaker 6 (11:21):
So I go in there. Everybody's heads are.

Speaker 7 (11:23):
Down, and I think of what in the world? And
I go in and I said, man, that's an easy win.
You guys look graty. Well what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (11:32):
He said?

Speaker 6 (11:33):
Did you see the stats?

Speaker 7 (11:34):
I said, yes, sixty three points five hundred and some
yards looked pretty good to me.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
But did you see we gave up forty two yards?

Speaker 5 (11:44):
He said, yeah.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
You can't win football playing defense like that. And so
sometimes I just have to remember a coach's mentality is
a little different than what the average fan or sports
writers' mentality is yes, sir, well.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Hey looking at those old days, and I mean I
I do, and I treasure those times. My question for you,
in the pre computer days, before the internet, how were
you your dad and this advocate staff. You were able
to cover all these local games so well and then

(12:16):
you had the pictures and you had the articles. They
were out by Saturday night. How in the world did
you get that done in I mean, I don't know
what eighteen hours. It was insane the product that you
could put out so quickly and Saturday nights in the
fall waiting for the abbey to come out.

Speaker 5 (12:35):
That was a big deal. That was really cool.

Speaker 7 (12:38):
Yeah, we took a lot of pride that fortunately had
always had an ownership that was really big on high
school of sports, so that helped. We were able to
fold a lot of resources to it in Some papers couldn't.
But it was actually easier in those days than it
is now because there wasn't any rush. I mean a
twenty four eighteen hour deadline. That's a long time the
newspaper industry, whereas now people have test stories done almost

(13:03):
before games end because of all the social media that's
out there, and really game stories are almost becoming obsolete
because everybody.

Speaker 6 (13:11):
Knows what has gone on before. But in the old days,
we could cover a game on Friday night.

Speaker 7 (13:18):
We had a couple of people that usually were stringers
that would go to games for us and we'd come back.
And that was even at the time. I know younger
folks who understand this. You had rolls of film. You know,
we would have a camera and you'd go out with
a twelve shot roll of film and be expected to
have at least two pictures that were going to be printable,
so you guys might need a note of it. In

(13:40):
the first four minutes of the game, I was taken
a picture of the coach on the sideline every time
I knew it worst come to ors.

Speaker 6 (13:45):
I was going to have a coach on the sideline
for one picture. But then you had to come in.

Speaker 7 (13:50):
You had a man would come in the morning and
process your film, pick out which a couple of pictures
could be printed.

Speaker 6 (13:56):
You would usually write your stories.

Speaker 7 (13:58):
On Friday night and come in on Saturday morn and
the games that we couldn't cover, track the coaches down
and find out what went on at their games. It
could almost write a full story just by talking to them,
have all that squared away by one o'clock in the afternoon,
and the press has started about nine o'clock that night,
so we actually had a lot of time to do
it then.

Speaker 6 (14:17):
It was a lot easier then.

Speaker 5 (14:18):
Than what it is now.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
It just you just had to put the hours in
to get it done.

Speaker 7 (14:22):
But that wasn't that big a deal because we knew
people wanted to read that, And I kind of feel
bad for today's athletes that those kind of memories aren't
going to be there and scrap books or anything we're
able to have because everything's online. Yeah, you can print
it out, but I don't think print out sheets quite
like pulling out the full page paper. And you know,

(14:45):
when Chuck would go to the state championship games, a
lot of times we do a full special section for
the next day on how the state championship game went,
and would have to do the planning on how that
was going to work out or able to do that now, crunch,
you just don't have time because everybody wants to see
it now.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, And we used to take and take the advocate
message or the headlines and the article when we had
cut it out, and if we won the state championship.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
We would frame it and put it on the wall. Yeah,
it was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's really interesting that you said that it was easier
because you don't have to beat the social media.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean it's on the internet after, you know, I
mean instantly, you know, yes, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (15:30):
You take the game last week when Bullcany lost to
Covenant Catholic. There's like play but play on social media.
There's a stream of it. The radio has got the
game on, there's a couple of different reporters there, and
then immediately after the game there looks like fifteen cell
phone videos where the last play was a fumble, not
a fumble, And I all like that, and so it's

(15:50):
it's just changed.

Speaker 6 (15:51):
The way we do things.

Speaker 7 (15:53):
And I also thought out, I think a guy that
changed a lot of high school sports covers who was
Alan Cole. Because when he first came to Channel eighteen
the TV stations election, it didn't come out to our
area a whole lot and cover games maybe every now,
but not very often. But Alan started doing it and
that made everybody else have to start doing it. So
then all the teams in our area started getting a

(16:15):
lot more TV coverage. On Friday night, which is really
a great thing for the athletes around here.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah. Hey, speaking of you know, back in you know
the way things used to be.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Larry, what is your media perspective on how the how
college athletics has changed recently, especially with the transfer portal
and the Nile.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
What's your take on all that.

Speaker 6 (16:41):
I don't like it, Juck, I don't like it. I
know I'm going to sound like the old guy.

Speaker 7 (16:45):
I don't like the way it's filtered down to the
high school level because I think that's having a big
impact on the high school level and it's going to
continue to have a bigger impact going forward. I think
in college. I don't think you could probably coach at
college now because I hear assistant coaches tell me that, Yeah,

(17:05):
let's say Larry's not doing a very good job. I'd
like to take him out or bench him, but donors
are giving him n I owe money, And the head
coach says, hey, you can't put him on the bench.
We've got these people giving us this money. You've got
to play him no matter what.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
And I don't like that.

Speaker 7 (17:22):
And I think I don't mind players making some money.
I wish we could just go back to where it
was kind of an equal distribution. If you're on the team,
everybody kind of gets their salary and you go on
from there and there's not some guys that are making
a lot, some they're not, and you're wondering how the
productivity is going. Then the transfer portal. I mean, Kentucky
plays Saturday and by Monday they could have twenty guys,

(17:46):
twenty five guys in the transfer portal, and Lincoln Mark
Soups said today that he needs some to get into
transfer portal so he can bring more in out of
the other transfer portal. I mean, I don't know how
you how you do it, and you see it jumping
around in high school now, I just don't like it.
I think it takes away from the team chemistry. I
think it makes it really almost impossible on coaches to

(18:09):
do their jobs because there's.

Speaker 6 (18:10):
So many things they have to deal with now.

Speaker 7 (18:14):
But it's not going away, And I guess he calls
that by going so long without letting players be able
to get a piece of the pie, so to speak,
and the way that it's filtering down the.

Speaker 6 (18:26):
High schools, now, that's not going to go away either.

Speaker 7 (18:28):
Because kches of like used to be able to say, well,
you'll ruin your college eligibility if you take money or
take Georg Spender do something that certainly is not true anymore.
And I don't think the cachous of the Blaye probably
has the authority to say if the local car dealership
or restaurant wants a sponsor a player.

Speaker 6 (18:48):
I don't think they're going to be able to stop
on that. It's like they really can't stop you from transferring.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Unbelievable, it really is.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah, And you know, I don't know, Chuck, you grant
me if I'm wrong, But you know, when we talked
to Mike Archer, Shoudn Brown coach Meryll, I don't I
don't really remember anyone being.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
Real positive about the changes. I mean, do you know
they all.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Agree as Larry said that the players should get uh,
they feel like the players should get some money. But
it needs to be you know, you know, evenly, just
you know, just distributed like like Larry said, and then
it needs to be you know, like I don't know,
contract or something. It just it's just absolutely crazy the

(19:32):
way it's going right now. It's just like I've talked
to college coaches that they say it's really a nightmare
to recruit and and to really coach in this kind
of that kind of atmosphere. You know, it's really like
the NFL, but there's no rules. At least the NFL
has rules the contracts.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (19:51):
And for a while I kind of thought, I don't
think the money's as much as what some people are saying.
But in the last twelve months, I've been looked well.
I've been able to be around some people that I
know that have had people being recruited and have let
me see some of the offers and the numbers that
are out there. It's mine, Bob, It's mine. I mean
I can see sometimes by an athlete doesn't maybe plays

(20:15):
but off or play as hard as what he he
or she might have had to before because they think, well,
I got this money at the bank, no need to
get hurt today and not be able to play next
week or something like that, and cast myself a check.
And I mean, the numbers are just astronomical, and I
guess they're just going to keep going higher.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
You know, we had coach archer On he said that
Brian Kelly had told him said, you know, Mike, there's
guys in our locker room making more than the assistant
coaches are. Yeah, that sounded outland is six months ago,
but sort of like what you're saying, I think we're
all sort of learning that the new reality is that.
I mean, these are very highly paid athletes and that's

(20:56):
how it is now.

Speaker 7 (20:57):
Well, then, there was a case last year where us
a softball pitcher got over a million dollars to transfer
from one school to another.

Speaker 6 (21:06):
That's crazy stuff, man, think of that for a minute.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Yeah, and I think I think the word minor or
minor sport. I think you just left the building on
that one. When you're getting a million dollars, you're not
a minor sport anymow.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Hey.

Speaker 7 (21:21):
And now where schools are going to start having to
distribute a big part of their TV package, of course,
how they're going to divide it up or they're going
to give eighty percent to football and then each other's
sport gets a little bit? Are you only gonna get
football fifty percent and then boost up your other sports?
School's gonna have a lot of decisions to make on
which structure they're going to go on trying to field

(21:42):
their best sports.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Scenes Well, hey, I want to go back and talk
about the good old days. Then after all this stuff.
Uh so here's my here's my last question for you.
You know the Advocate Messenger coverage area, it really I
think it exploded during your era and it became a

(22:03):
hot bed of high school football, and not just Boiling Dammel,
but Harrisburg Mercer, Lincoln Garrett to some extent, and Casey.
I've got a theory, but I want to ask you
what made that coverage area a hot bed of high
school football? Why do you think that happened? Like I said,
I've got my theory about it, I want to hear
what you think.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I don't hear.

Speaker 6 (22:25):
Probably smarter of me, David. I don't really know.

Speaker 7 (22:28):
I just knew that people loved football in our area,
and I think people in the state of Kentucky love football.
I always told I would go places in people to
say Kentucky just a basketball state.

Speaker 8 (22:39):
I said, no, it's not.

Speaker 7 (22:41):
You know, to come out on Friday nights the high
school of football games to compare the attendance of high
school football versus high school basketball, and I said that
Kentucky was not a football state.

Speaker 6 (22:51):
How wouch at that time?

Speaker 7 (22:52):
I think get fifty thousand fans to go watch football
team at the University Kentucky. It usually won three or
four games. I said, it's easy to fill up a
basketball arena when you're winning, except for football fans. So
I think it's always been a football state, and we
tried to kind of take that approach to high school
football was important to everybody in our area, and I

(23:13):
think we thought it was also important to the young
kids that were watching the older kids play and they
saw these guys kind of as their heroes and grew
up and so that we had stuff about that and
the paper, and then what we also tried to do
was put every name possible that we could. I mean,
that's why we always included the stats of a kid
that ran at one time for two yards.

Speaker 6 (23:34):
That's kind of time consuming to put all that in there,
but we did.

Speaker 7 (23:38):
And while we ran the high school statistics ever Wednesday
in the paper and fact at one time, Chuck, that
was jacob Damage job with his paper. He interned with
us a little bit. He came and set the high
school statistics for us because I hated doing that.

Speaker 8 (23:50):
That was one of his jobs.

Speaker 6 (23:51):
We came in there for an hour for two hours
on Wednesday afternoon.

Speaker 7 (23:54):
Then a few years later he was playing in the
Super Bowl, So maybe I had more to do with that,
and he didn't want to take a real job and
what you did teaching right there, So I don't know,
but I just think it was just a love to
people in my area had for football day.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah, what all?

Speaker 4 (24:08):
So here's here I'm gonna hit you with. Nobody asked,
but I'm gonna give it anyway. I think I think
what got it going was that early Danville high school
football was very successful. I think the parable high school
eight man teams were very successful. I think that was
Those were two big pieces coming out of the sixties

(24:28):
and then and I don't have to say this, I
really believe this. I think you and your dad you
did a couple of things. We've had this conversation. You
told the world about bo Yeast, but what you also did,
and you really did a good job of talking about it.
You took guys like me that weren't very good and
you made us look great. And we ate that stuff up.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
I mean we did.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
We thought it was I mean, I've got all the
scrapbooks back here, and I'm gonna share some pictures on
our social media and like what you're saying. So when
I'm I'm trying to think, I guess I'm seven years old.
My dad's at Bull County and I open up to
Kentucky Advocate Saturday Night, there's bo Yeast. What do you
think I'm thinking? Man, I want to I want to
be that guy someday. I want to be in the

(25:15):
Kentucky Advocate on Saturday Night. And I mean we were
all like that. And I mean to some extent, you know,
like you said how you feel bad for the kids now,
I mean it is it is really different. And to
some extent you sort of made very average guys almost
like Friday Night folk town heroes.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
I mean you really did.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
And uh I just I think that you just really
you guys threw gasoline on a fire that just absolutely exploded,
And uh, I just I really think that. And like
even some of the things that we will do at
Anderson County, I will tell them we are trying to
best we can in this era. Duplicate Bill and Larry

(26:03):
Votte Kentucky Advocate, early seventies, I say that is what
we were after. And I'll tell them that because I
just thought you guys did an incredible job of that,
and I do I think you your dad the Kentucky
Abbodt Andentugy Advocate Saturday Night. I just I think you're
a big piece of what happened in this area.

Speaker 5 (26:22):
I really do.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
I ready started the phrase title town, and you know
that's carried on forever, and that's across the state of Kentucky.
You know, people talk about, Hey, theres title town. Both
of them went, you know, to some extent.

Speaker 5 (26:37):
I think it's national. I mean, I think people know
Damn and Boy County football all over the country and
I just look, I mean, you know.

Speaker 4 (26:47):
I'm crazy about you and your dad, and yes I
am a big fan, but I really think that you two.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
Were very big in what.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
Is transpired here and I'm just thankful that I got
to be around to see it. I mean, you just
you made football in this area special. And again, the
ones that were studs Jacob Tammy, Hey, they were going
to be studs anyway. Man, thank you for what you
did to all the guys like me that weren't that good.

Speaker 5 (27:18):
But you may just think we were good. That was
really cool.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
I think we were just lucky to be in an
area that football meant a lot, and we just got
to tell a lot of good stories. I don't think
it was anything specially we did other than just being
able to share a lot of good stories. And there's
a lot of Like I said, we had a lot
of great players that I got to cover in my
now fifty some years, but there's also just a lot
of really good high school football players that played too.

Speaker 6 (27:44):
And you had the room in the time to share
those stories. Now that's not something that gets done a
whole lot.

Speaker 7 (27:51):
I mean, try to think the last time, even in
one of the major newspapers in the state, when you've
just seen a feature on this kind of a an ordinary,
average high school kid that's just playing his butt off.
Maybe he's run for eight hundred yards or maybe leeds
his team and tackles, but he's five nine, one hundred
and sixty five pounds.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
You don't.

Speaker 7 (28:12):
You see the stories on the ones that are going
to Division one, but you don't see the ones on
the kids that really make football teams.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
Well, hey, I don't like being old, but I'm glad
that my time was my time, and I'm glad that
when I was growing up that the Bill and Larry
Vot were right there, and you could go get that
advocate on a Sunday or a Saturday night.

Speaker 5 (28:34):
Man, that is the best of the best, and you'll
never convince me otherwise.

Speaker 8 (28:40):
We like to think.

Speaker 7 (28:41):
So, I mean, we took a lot of pride in
what we were doing, and again were for fortune. We're
fortunate that we had editors that understood the value of
high school sports coverage and gave us the room and
the time and the resources to do that. And I mean,
I'm not bitter, but you look at the time how
times have changed, and newspapers are struggling a lot of

(29:05):
times now, and part of it is they kind of
brought it up on themselves because they got away from
what was working and decided they would try to change
things instead of kind of giving.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
Readers what they liked.

Speaker 7 (29:17):
A lot of them, I'm not just somebody paper in particular,
but a lot has changed what they were doing, and
people said, Okay, there's nothing else, I'll go do something else.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
Well, I'm gonna go off on a tangent here as
a history teacher for a second. When I was in Maysville,
our central office bosses were doing some crappy stuff, and nobody.

Speaker 5 (29:41):
Was really sure what was going on.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
Do you know who finally realized it and got those
cats out of there. It was the local newspaper, Bob Hendrickson,
and he blasted him. And if he doesn't blast him,
they they keep doing their thing, I think, and they
get away with it. But it was the local newspaper
that held them accountable. And I think, I think if

(30:06):
you're going to have a democracy, an educated populace, if
you're going to have an accountability, you're gonna have freedom
of speech. I think a local free press, locally owned
and locally controlled. I think it's critical. And I think
in our in our country, if we give up that
locally owned press and voice, I think we're asking for

(30:29):
big trouble, in my opinion, And sadly, I think we're
already going down that road, and I think we're paying
a price for it, and it's only going to get worse.

Speaker 7 (30:37):
You're almost at the end of that road. There's somethingy
locally owned anymore. Everything's chain on in all that it is,
and there are not a lot of hard hitting editorials anymore,
not a lot of investigative reporting or.

Speaker 6 (30:51):
Anything like like that.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
And you seem I mean, I could, I could probably
make a case that there's one school right here where
I lived that I wish the newspaper had done a
lot more checking on things than when it was going on,
and reported a lot more things than what it did.
But some of the things that happened had happened twenty
years ago, there'd have been a story on the front

(31:13):
page of the newspaper.

Speaker 6 (31:14):
Here every day about what was going on.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
And when you when you hire.

Speaker 7 (31:20):
Somebody to do a job and I make a call
to somebody that I happen to have done with another spot,
and they say, now that person will be great. It's
just that person may be even good at managing money
and doesn't really like sports, and you think it's going
to go over well for whatever, So that might be
don't you imagine, and kind of play out that way.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Yeah, yeah, well, hey, you know what, I Sadly, I
think our culture were sort of getting what we deserve
in spots. And maybe at some point we'll we'll wake
up and we'll head back to more of a model
of account ability. But man, I appreciate you and thank

(32:03):
you for making the time and and you were the
perfect guy for Thanksgiving and I just again can't thank you,
thank you for not just for being on this episode,
but for all that you've done the last fifty years.
It's been incredible.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
We appreciate it. Larry, nice catching up with you.

Speaker 6 (32:21):
Yeah, you guys have both did a done a lot
for me.

Speaker 7 (32:24):
Dave, you took care of me here recently when when
I had COVID, it was a pretty rough shape.

Speaker 6 (32:28):
There for a few days, so you took care of
me there.

Speaker 7 (32:30):
And Chuck did something many many years ago that I'm
sure he probably doesn't even remember because to him.

Speaker 6 (32:38):
I had a big deal.

Speaker 7 (32:39):
But to me it was a huge deal because the
biggest conflict I ever had and all my years of
covering and doing the work of the newspaper was the
four years my son played high school sports, and that made.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
Me I was in a tough position.

Speaker 7 (32:55):
So I remember when he was a freshman and I
went out and sat down with Chuck and Tom Brown.
I said, hey, I just want you all to know
I probably won't see another Bullcany football game for four
years because I'm going to start just covering Dan Bull
because that's where my son's going to be. And I
just want to know, just wanted you all to know
that thought you needed to know. Chuck told me, if

(33:16):
you did anything else, I'd be disappointed in you. I
would have, and that made it took a lot of presser.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Couse.

Speaker 7 (33:22):
Man, if Chuck had wanted to make my life miserable,
right then he could have gone out and told about
three people. Boy looked at Larry. He don't even care
about bull Can anymore. He could have made my life miserable,
but it said he fully embraced me. That made those
four years a whole lot more enjoyable and benefait I've
never forgot that.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, you had to do that. There was no decision
at all. Yeah, Hey, larrybody appreciate you any time.

Speaker 6 (33:48):
Guys, thanks for having me.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (33:50):
You did a great jobs.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
It's another anonymous I understand why it's anonymous, and it's hey.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
I don't want to say it's not me. Okay.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
It's only a good question, though.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
How do you build mental toughness in a society that
increasingly removes obstacles from kids?

Speaker 5 (34:10):
Okay? I took a couple approaches. One from a very
practical standpoint.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
I like to practice early in the morning because they
have to get out of bed, and a lot of
times it's cold, And I think when you learn to
do some things that maybe are not very comfortable or
they're inconvenient, I think that that's a good thing.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
I think it helps them. I still think this, even
though I know we don't think of it as being tough.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
I think holding people accountable helps make them tough if
they just learned that there's consequences for being slippy or
doing things.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
And then the last thing that I put.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
I don't really I don't worry too much about this
piece of it because to me, if I continue to
teach the game of football properly, that's gonna create toughness.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
You know, Let's take a defensive lineman for example.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
If he's taught to fight pressure and cross face and
to squeeze, he's gonna get tougher.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
And if he learns how to do that, well, he's
gonna be tough.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
So I think if you teach the game of football
to be played properly, I think I think you're gonna
get a lot tougher. And uh, because I think the
game demands that we do tough things. So I mean
that's sort of a simple answer. I understand the question, but.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
I still think. I guess here's the thing too.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I know people love to say the kids are soft
these days, and you know, I'm not gonna say that.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
They're there.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
There's a point to it, and you can't coach like
he used to. But I think if I think, you know,
yelling or cussing kids and stuff like that, I mean
I don't. I don't think that makes you tougher. I
mean I think if you want, if you want your
players to be tough, I think you have to model toughness.

(36:11):
And toughness means I'm gonna do my job whether I
feel like it or not, whether it's convenient or not,
whether it's easier or not.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And so.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
I probably look at toughness a little different maybe than
what's what others look at it, you know. So that's
my answer. I don't know, you know, you know, again
practical standpoint. But again, I think football is a tough game,
and if you play it well, I.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Think you're going to get tougher.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Go ahead, Well, how you build mental toughness in today's kids?

Speaker 1 (36:44):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (36:45):
You know, I think that. I think you have every
kid get involved in something, I really do.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
You know, going home and watching TV and playing video
games that really should not be in all It really
shouldn't and it's it's not healthy to do that.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
You know, at least if you're.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Going to do it, then you know, put a time
limit on how long they can they can play, you know,
the video games.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
I mean, uh, and this really has to come from
the parents, it really does, you know. They they shouldn't
allow this. I don't think it's healthy.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
The schools, I think are doing their part. There's so
many options, you know for kids to be involved in. Uh,
there's there's no reason why every kid cannot be involved
in something to find something to do at school. I
mean there's clubs, there's drama, there's band, there's there's a

(37:41):
there're even got they haven't got video game teams. They
call them sports and uh they I mean they be
on one of those, you know. Uh, you know it's
sports is not for everybody. I get that, And but
there's plenty of options with the clubs, the sports, all
those kinds of things for kids to get involved. I
know that you know these the any and really it

(38:05):
goes back to what you said, because if you're involved
in a team, you're a part of something. Uh, you know,
you you're you're you're held accountable to follow those rules.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
And and and you know you've got responsibilities, you.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Know, your teammate, So all of those things that you said, Uh,
if if kids are getting involved, and you know, I
think that does build mental toughness.

Speaker 8 (38:28):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
I know that I'm biased, and but I believe that.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
You know, football is the greatest sport out there to
build character and toughness and kids there because really, and
it's a fact, there is no other sport that can
challenge you mentally and physically like football. There's no other
sport that can not only challenges you physically, but it
also challenges you mentally. And there's no other sport that

(38:56):
can do that. You know, other sports can challenge you mentally,
but they can't add that physical part in it like
football can. And I mean, if you want to, if
you want kids to be tough and and and accountable
and discipline, you know, you can't pick a better sport
than football to get that accomplished.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
As a parent, you know, if your kid And I
know it's not for everybody. I understand that.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Part, but uh, you know, just being on the team
and being involved in that kind of stuff, Uh, you
don't always have to be the star of the team.
You can be on You can find a road to contribute,
uh to your team, your football team. I just think
that if a kid is capable of doing it, I
think a parent should really encourage him to be a
part of it. And I know, I know I'm biased

(39:42):
on that, but but I still believe that far my heart,
you know.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
And that's a great point because you know, with John Combs,
hope he doesn't get mad.

Speaker 5 (39:48):
I'm saying this.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
When he was younger, I didn't know how good he
would be at football, but I wanted him to play
because of all the things you just described, and so
it was like, I don't know how good be, but
he's going to get the things.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
That the benefits from playing football.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
And then you know, he turned out. He turned out
to be a much better player than what I anticipated
he would be. But but I wanted that for both
of my sons. And uh, you know, I agree with you,
and that's why, uh boy, I tried to get kids
to hang in there. I hate to see a kid
quit just because I hate to see him give up

(40:24):
all the things that you just just describe.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
So, uh, I like your answer and I will say
I looked at you the question a little differently.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I read it as obstacles from football players, and you
read it as kids in general. And I think you're
probably yours was more accurate, But I was more of
thinking that of it as if I'm a football coach
and my kids aren't very tough, what am I going
to do about it?

Speaker 5 (40:49):
So, but I liked how you answered that was good.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Yeah, well we want to move on to the uh
games games. Well really it's the pickle now.

Speaker 5 (40:58):
Yes, we're gonna pick him, so ay, uh let me
I'll go first on Class A. Uh. And also, and
I I may have made a mistake, but I think
Raceland and k c D is a repeat of last year.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
I've got Raceling over k c D again now instead
of pike Full over Campbellsville, this time I'm picking Sayer.
But I think of the final four in Class A,
I think there's only one new team and that Sayer. Uh.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
So I've got Raceling over k c D and I
got Sayer over Campbellsville.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Yeah, I've got Raceland as will I think that. Uh,
I think they're coming around. You know, coach Coach was
on our show.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
You know show, and I really I really like talking
to him.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I think that I could tell by talking to him
that he was really focused and locked in, and.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
You know, he had a plan and he was going
to follow that plan out.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
That plan seems to be falling into place for him,
but I do I picked Racelan over Kentucky Country Day,
and I also pick Sayer as you did over Campbellville,
and if you remember correctly, I picked about mid season.
I went out on the limits that I thought Campbellsville
would win single A, and I'm backing off of that

(42:11):
just a little bit. I mean, I think that's gonna
be a good game. I think it's going to be
a close game. I just think that Saya's coming off
that big win and they got some momentum going uh
because they're the ones who knocked the pipe out of
it and Pipel has been dominating it.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
I don't think you could count Campbellsville all the way out.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
But I'm gonna go with my gut and think that
Saya was going to get that game to A.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I'll go ahead and go first, and.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I pick l c A over Beachwood, and I know
Elsie's got to go to Beechwood. I really think it's
gonna be a close game. I think it's gonna be
a great game. But I tell you l c A
made a believer out of me last week with that
dominating performance over Mayfield, so it's hard to pick against them.

Speaker 9 (43:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
And then uh, I think Odsboro Catholic, who is going
to beat Somerset. I think they'll beat him fairly easy.
I think that, And I said last week, I'll say again,
I think on Wasboro Catholic is going to win to
A this year.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
I got you, well, ay, I've got l cl Over
Beechwood again, and uh, I think the biggest difference, you know,
look at l c A's defense this year as compared
to last year, of the points in the Mayfield game. Uh,
I mean it's a lot different. And then I've also
got Owensboro a Catholic over Somerset.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
I'm leaning toward Owensboro Catholic as being a state champ.
But uh, I've already my state champ picked for three
a's already gone.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
So you know, I don't know, but I agree with
you that.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yeah, no kidding, Uh, l Osborth Catholic I've got so
all right, So three A. That's right, get after me there.
Uh So I've got Cal over Electionington Catholic. And then, uh,
I've got but it's Union County in Belfree.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Correct, Yes, it's Junion and Belfree.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
Yeah, and I've got Union County over Belfree. So all right,
what about you?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
I got the same, I've got Cal. I'm gonna pick
Cal over Lexington Catholic. I've been a believer in Cal.
I picked Cal last week too, by the way, uh Over,
and because they were playing at home, I thought I
thought they would come back and be ready for that,
and uh and then I'm picking Union.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Union kind of made.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
A believer out of me with with their performance over
Hart County, which I thought, you know, was pretty dominating.
Now I'm a big Belfrey fan, but Belfree has got
to travel a long ways for this game. I would
love to know how he's going to do that. He's
got to spend the night, he has to spend the night.
I'd love to know how he's going to do that.

(45:00):
I mean it's like a six hour drive, you know.
But so, I mean, I don't see how you can
do that in the day. Maybe maybe not, I don't know,
But I'm still picking Union over Belfrey.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Yeah, I agree, You've got four A.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I'm going to go with Franklin County over Covington Catholic.
I think I think Covington Catholic is coming off that
big upset win over Boil and.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
I think that they may be in in it too
long and uh in that celebration.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
I don't know, maybe maybe not, but I'm I know
Franklin County's got a nice football team. I think they
might have a key player heard he's been hurt for
a while, but Franklin knows how to play defense and
I think that. I think I think Franklin might get them.
And then as far as the other game goes, I'm
going to pick Corba. I know they got long travel,

(45:51):
they got to go to Tilman and it's a long
ways to go, but I'm going to pick Corbin.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I think they've been knocking on the door for a
couple of years now. I think it might be their
time to get in.

Speaker 5 (46:02):
I got you, well, A, We're completely opposite on this one.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
I've got Cuve Kathlin in at Franklin County and I
think Tilman is gonna beat Corby. And I mean I'll
acknowledge this. I can see I can see these games
going either way. I think there's four really good teams.

Speaker 9 (46:18):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
But uh again, I've got Cuve, Kathin Tillman right, so
five a uh. And I tell you what this, these
two are good grief. Uh. I mean saying, I'm about
to change my mind right as we're speaking, but I'm
gonna stick with it. I'm gonna go with Highlands over Cooper.
And I know it's a tough game. It's sort of

(46:41):
weird because you're coaching there. Uh, I'm gonna go with
South Warren over Bowling Green.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Well, I know you had to pick that because I'm
sitting right here looking at you. But I'm gonna go
with with Cooper over Highlands. I got and I'm not
going to pick the South Warren in Bowling Green game.
But I'll tell you this, and I've said this after
last week. I think any of those four teams could

(47:09):
easily win the state championship. I think those are really
four pretty evenly matched teams, and I think any of
them could win the whole thing. I don't think there's
you know, one that's you know, maybe over the other
that much, but it will be great games.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Yeah, and then then the sixth eight, I've got Douglas.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
I'm picking Douglas over Trinity and uh, I just think
I just think they don't have them ready, you know.
And Trinity I don't think is they're the returning state
champs and I don't think they've dominated like you know,
everybody thought they would. I think that I think Douglas
might get them. And I'm picking Row over Great Crossing.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Boy.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Mike Engler has really done a great job there. We
had him on last year.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
I believe uh or as a podcast and I really like,
you know, the things that he said then, and he
got them rolling, he got him going.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
And I'm picking rle over over Great Crossing.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Well, I would disagree on and again I don't think.
I don't think my picture. I mean, I'm not gonna
go through and say this one's a slam donek this.
And but Trendy and Douglas, I mean, I think it's
gonna be a great game. I think Trendy will get him.
I do think nothing against Great Crossing. They've had a
great season, done a great job. But I do think

(48:33):
that Ryle's probably got a little bit that bigger edge
over great crossing than maybe some of the other games.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
But uh, I mean, you know, I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (48:41):
And again they they got into the the semi finals
of six A football, which is a tremendous accountishment. So uh,
good congratulations to to coach Bowling, and uh, you know,
those guys have done a good job. So hey, I
did want to share something, uh, you know, sort of
the job that you know connected us.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
I know it's been important to us. I got some
really good information not long ago, and.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
It's about the Danville High School head coaching job. And
so I just want to share this with us because
you know, again we say we're behind the scenes the
coach's office and and these are the kind of things
that we talk about when you look at jobs.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
But the information that I got is that the superintendent
mister Ron Ballor and the principal Danny Goodwin. I've gotten
really good reports on them as excellent leaders. They would
be excellent bosses, Guys that want to build a football program,
guys that love Danville, you know. So you know, besides

(49:48):
the fact that Davill's won a lot of games in
championships over the years, you've got to have great leadership.
If you're going to rebuild a program. Maybe, if you're
maintaining a program, school leadership is not is significant. But
if you're gonna build a program, you've got to have
great school administration. And I'm I'm comfortable saying I think

(50:10):
Damvill Damville Schools have got great leadership right now with
their superintendent and principle, which in my opinion makes it
a much more attractive job. And when you combine that
with the good young kids that Danvil's got right now,
I think I think things are actually pretty optimistic for
Danville High School right now. I think they've got really

(50:32):
good days ahead of Noah.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
If we're talking about if we're talking about is Danville
a good job or not?

Speaker 3 (50:38):
And I agree.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
And you know Mike Pittman is their athletic director. Well,
Mike Pittman was my athletic director at Boyle, so he
knows a little bit about football too. And yes, uh,
those guys, uh, you know those guys uh that you mentioned,
they're they I think they understand what football means to

(51:00):
Danville community, the Davil community. I'm built willing to bet
that they probably reached out to some coaches that they
probably were interested in, and they they probably you know,
they probably weren't sitting.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Back and waiting for people just to apply.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I'm sure they looked at those applications, but I'm sure
they put feelers out the people that they would have
an interest.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
In as well.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
That's the way you do it if you want to
get a coach that to take over a program like Danville. People,
these young coaches who they don't understand, you know, what
kind of a program Danville football?

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Well, I mean Damful football. I say this all the time,
but I don't know if the young people believe me.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
At one time, dam football was one of the best programs,
if not the best program in the state of Kentucky.
I mean they could have beat trendy insane X on
a regular basis during their heydays.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I mean they were that good.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
And uh, you know, people, the young guys now just
see Damn getting beat you know, you know, sixty to nothing.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
I mean that's not Damn but football.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
No it's not.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
And I think I think they're going to bounce back,
and uh you know that, And I feel bad I
left out mister Pittman. Uh just turned out by source.
The other day was addressing the principal and superintendent. But uh, yeah,
I think they've got really good things. But you know,
to our listeners though, especially the guys that coach man,

(52:32):
I can't we can't oversell or overestimate to you man
who your bosses are and their support coaching football. They're
just saying them now. I mean, there's too many things
that you need to get done that they yeah, they
got the you don't have that. Yeah, So that that's

(52:53):
very encouraging. So all right, so looking ahead the next week,
we're going to have a guy that's got some experience
in state champion ship games. It'll be coach Mike Holcombe
and I'm really excited about having him. Our anonymous tough topic,
we got another one. This one's a little different, but
we got it. So we're gonna go with it. When
the officials make a game deciding error in your favor,

(53:17):
how do you address that? As a coach, admin, and parent.

Speaker 5 (53:21):
It won't take me long to hit that one. But uh,
but anyway, what's that.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
In my favor?

Speaker 5 (53:28):
Yes, it was a hell of a call that there
you go.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
But anyway, hey, you don't want to miss it, And
I tell you what, don't miss what we got going on.

Speaker 5 (53:40):
We're winding down here.

Speaker 4 (53:42):
We've got coach Hulkum, then hopefully we'll have the state
championship coaches, and then we've got a phenomenal Christmas episode
lined up and uh man, we're gonna We're gonna finish
out strong now we are, and uh and there's still
a lot to look forward to, but we're it's why
it down.

Speaker 5 (54:00):
So I hope our listeners will hang in there with us.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, and hang on listen to Mike's historical segment that
comes on right after we sign off, and so that
you won't be disappointed.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
See you next week. Thanks for tuning.

Speaker 8 (54:14):
In sports, and in particular, high school sports are woven
into the fabric of Americana. High school sports are part
of the DNA of communities across the country, and that
is certainly true in Kentucky. Fans know the stories of
the big names, but there are many names and many

(54:34):
stories that have been lost to history. This series highlights
those forgotten heroes. Welcome to this edition of Forgotten Heroes.
I'm your host, Mack Yoakum. Nicknames are a part of sports.
The Babe Mean Joe and an athlete from the Kentucky
Mountains might have had the best nickname of all. John

(54:59):
Urban Hike starred for the Harlan Green Dragons in the
late nineteen twenties and early nineteen thirties. John was listed
as six feet one inches tall and he played anywhere
from one ninety five to two hundred and fifteen pounds,
and it was probably his physical stature that gave him
his nickname Lockjaw, and more people knew him as Lockjaw

(55:22):
than John. Lockjaw was quite the colorful character. Lockjaw used
his powerful frame to overpower the opposition, leading the Green
Dragons to a nine to one mark his senior season.
He was selected as an honorable mention All Stater. After
football season that year, tragedy struck Lockjaw. A friend died

(55:44):
from a gunshot wound and Lockjaw was arrested. Eventually, it
was found to be an accident and Lockjaw was released.
While he was a senior, Lockjaw found boxing, and he
was very, very good. He traveled all over the Southeast
and boxed against me many of the top heavyweights, all
while still being a high school senior. Most coaches probably

(56:06):
wouldn't let you do that today. The writers compared him
to Jack Dempsey. UK football coach Harry Gammage came to
Harlan to meet with Lockjaw, and coach Gamage left thinking
that college and Lockjaw would not be a good fit. However,
Lockjaw did wind up in college at Bluefield College, playing

(56:28):
for his former Harlan coach Mully Lenore. At Bluefield, he
was known as the Bluefield College Athletic idol. Lockjaw even
used his boxing prowess to raise money by putting on
benefit cards in the Bluefield area. Following Bluefield, he finished

(56:49):
up playing football at Davis and Elkins University. Then Lockjaw
found himself playing professional football with the New York Yankees.
He finished up his pro football career with the Boston
Shamrocks of the original AFL. After playing professionally, he returned
to Harland County and Lockjaw coach football and basketball at

(57:10):
the JV level at Harlan, Everetts and Blackstar, all while
still boxing. Lockjaw eventually found his calling. He became director
of athletics at the Kentucky State Penitentiary in Lagrange. He
established a football team at the penitentiary and scheduled games
with semi pro teams, Lockjaw had created a longest yard

(57:34):
scenario years ahead of the movie. He did his job
so well that in nineteen sixty seven, he was elected
president of the National Corrections Recreation Association. Besides starting football
at the prison, he started varsity teams in all other
major sports playing against semi pro teams that would travel

(57:55):
to the penitentiary. He built a completely equipped gym, started
a building and weightlifting program, built tennis and volleyball courts,
and he even built a three hole golf course. A
colorful character from the Harlan, Kentucky Mountains who took prison
recreation to new heights, Lockjaw Pike passed away in nineteen eighty.

Speaker 9 (59:00):
The foots the speak, the himself, the foot, the speak,
the thet himself, the theat the foot, It's ass. Skink

(01:02:03):
ad