August 19, 2025 • 58 mins
To open the 2025 season the coaches welcome the numbers 3 and 4 all time winningest coaches in Ky high football history, Coach Larry French from Middlesboro High and Kevin Wallace from St X. With 730 wins and 88 years of head coaching experience, this show is one you won't want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Coach David Buchanan Coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
(00:33):
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We also want to thank our kickoff episode sponsor, Kelly
Wilkins of five S fundraising. Once again, Kelly has doubled
our goal at Anderson County High School for fundraising. Our
goal is always tenth thousand dollars. Again, two years in
(01:02):
a row we have hit twenty thousand dollars. If you
want an aggressive go getter to fundraise for your program,
Kelly Wilkins is the man.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Okay, Welcome to the Coach's Office behind the scenes with
Chuck Smith and David Buchanan. This is season four, episode one,
so this is the start of a new season. I'm
Chuck Smith. I'm joined by co host David Buchanan, podcast
editor Slash Slash slashback storyteller Mike Yoakum. Your YouTube version
(01:38):
of this podcast is at teacot. That's T dot C,
dot O dot P. If you hit like and subscribe,
that helps us out.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Tonight's show. We kick off the season with an unforgettable
opening show. Joining Joining, Joining Us are two legendary figures
in Kentucky high school football, Larry French of Middlesborough High
School and Kevin Wallace of Saint X High School. These
coaching giants have shaped generations of athletes. Both have announced
(02:11):
that this will be their final season, so stay tuned.
We're going to get to them in just a second.
Our tough topic for tonight is from Purple eighty eight
on Bluegrass Preps. He says, if you have your opponent,
or if your opponent has a dangerous kick returner or
a punt returner, what is the best approach you know
(02:35):
to apply to defending that? As a good question, I've
lost a few games over that, so I don't know
if it will be much help with that, but I'll
give my opinion, and then to talk just a little
bit about the coaches before we bring them on. Before
David brings them on. Larry French Middlesborough High School has
(02:56):
three hundred and sixty nine wins. He coached at Mercer County.
David and I both coached with Larry at Mercer County.
What a great experience. He coached atne County, Lincoln County,
Boyle County, Southwestern Pulaski and now he's at Middlesborough High School.
He has two state championships. He is the third winning
(03:19):
his coach in Kentucky high school football, and he's entering
his forty eighth season as a head football coach. I
think I'm right on that. If I mess those numbers
up anywhere, y'all correct me when you come on. Kevin
Wallace at Saint X High School has three hundred and
sixty one wins with only one hundred and twenty six losses.
(03:40):
He's coached at Warren East Bowling Green for twenty two
years and now he's at Saint X. I believe for
his eighth season. He's won six state championships. He's the
fourth winning as coach in Kentucky high school football, and
he's entering his fortieth season as a head football coach.
So between them they got seven and thirty wins, eight
(04:03):
state championships. So I think they know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, they're they're excellent, that's for sure. Yeah, I want
to bring him on, Coach French. I still remember the
white Corvette Springing nineteen seventy four driving up to our house.
Carrigo drive my dad hired him and coach french Man.
He's been family ever since that time. And then I
(04:29):
tell you what. I was in a rough spot. I
didn't have a job, and Kevin Wallace.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Put me to work a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And I could go on and on about that too,
but Kevin is I tell you what, well, it used
to take me thirty minutes off the video now takes
me about five to ten. I really learned a lot.
And these are two guys that have been very important
to me, have really done a lot to help me.
And there're two, as you said, two of the finest
coaches of the States ever seen. And I'm very thankful
(04:58):
that they've been a big part of my life and
very excited about this episode.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I can't imagine a better way to kick it off.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you know, in coaching, a lot of times talking
about things coming to an end, we don't like to
talk about it.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And for them to be willing to come on here
and talk about.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
This going into their final season, you talk about a
truly behind the scenes look at the life of a
high school football coach, and in this case, two great
football coaches man our listeners. They can't find anything like
this anywhere else, It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Welcome to the show, guys, appreciate you having us, Chuck, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Thanks, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah. I'm going to start with the first question here, Larry,
he can go first on the answer that Kevin can
answer it, you know, the way he wants to. But
what do you believe has been the key to your
sustained success? I mean, you guys have had years and
years and years of success. Where do you think the
keys have been?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I think just having good assistant coaches. You know,
it's probably been about as consistent as anything. And you
know you have to have good assistant coaches to get
things accomplished anymore. And you've got to have players, you know,
that will bite into what you're trying to do. And
you know, you've got to have a community that will
(06:21):
back it, and a school system that will back what
you're trying to do also, So, uh, there's a lot
of things that go into it. I think you've got
to be consistent, you got to be fair, and I
think you've got to treat your kids the right way.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Good answer, now, I like that.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Larry hit on a number of things that all officers
would say, I think that when I've had an opportunity
to speak on program organization, I always talk about the
five essential things that I think that have to be
present for you to be able to have an excellent
high school football program. And you have to have an
administrative group thatunderstands the value of what an elite sports
(07:03):
team can bring to that district or to that school.
I think that you've got to have, you know, Larry
said it, a community that supports you not only put
we're into the seats, but also are financially going to
support your programs to where you can do great things. Obviously,
that administration has to understand the value of hiring coaches,
and then obviously you got to have great staff and
(07:23):
great players. Nobody wins a Derby on a mule. I mean,
we've all got to have guys that can play and
can run and hit and make plays. So Larry and
I both have been very fortunate to be in places
that that had a little bit, if not all, five
of those things.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Are going to have.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Most of them in place so you can have success.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You certainly do, but it all really starts with a
guy that has a vision, and both of you guys
have proven over the years that y'all have that vision
and been able to you know, put together and the
parts of that vision. And y'all mentioned the parts. But
it takes a guy that's relentless with that vision and
it's not going to accept anything but that standard that
(08:07):
he that he that he presents, and you guys have
proven over the years you do that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I've I've been fortunate to work with both and really
for both as head coaches, and uh, I mean they're
exceptional leaders.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And uh, I think if I were going to pick
out one thing about both of them, they react at
the level appropriate that an event deserves. You know, I'll
just be honest about myself. Sometimes I will react to
stuff and I make it worse.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Coach French and Coach Wallace are really good about They
just they're just they're a lot more even killed And
I think that's to me, that was one thing I
wish I was more like both of them, and that
uh I think after watching Kevin a second time, I
hope I'm becoming more like that. But I know that's
one thing I really enjoyed about both of them when
(09:02):
I saw them leading as head coaches.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
So I don't know about you, but I've never had
an official to describe me as even keeled.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I wouldn't say that the officials would describe me that
way either, but I've tried to be nice to them
here lately. Well, they do a great job with their
coaches and their players.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
So so, coach, is my first question.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
For you.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Going into the opening game. This is your last season
as a head football coach. And I mean it's like,
I really don't even feel like saying last season as
a head football coach.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Does it justice?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, this is your last season of a legendary,
incredible career of success, of affecting young people over an
incredibly long sustained time. I mean, this is what you
all done has been incredible. So my question to you
is you're getting ready to hit this last season in
(10:02):
your first game. Where's your mind right now? What are
you guys thinking about? What are your priorities right now? Well,
my priorities is trying to get our team ready to
play Breath of County. I'm not worried about how many
games I got left in my career or what game
it is. The next game is breathat County, And that's
(10:23):
all I'm worried about right now is trying to get
all of our players and all of our coaches ready
to play that first ball game because it's gonna be
a tough one. And I'm not worried about anything else
except that.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And we're all gonna agree with that. But I think
one of the things for me that my players and
my coaches deserve me to continue to be a problem solver.
They deserve for me to stay in the moment. They
don't need for this season to become about Kevin Walks.
It needs to be about saying, ex football, it needs
(10:57):
to be more about our seniors than it is just
because it's my senior year or my senior time as
the head coach. I don't want to do anything to
distract from those seniors that I have on the football team.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah. I didn't expect any other answer, did you, David?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, now I didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And uh, I just you know, I'm gonna shut up
on what you talk. But I'm just saying it's entertaining
for listeners. But man, young coaches can learn. I can
learn so much by hearing these guys. This is just
really really good stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Guys. Thank y'all go ahead of you get the next
one there.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Oh, hey, guys, y'all have been doing it for a
lot of years now, for forty eight and forty. If
there's one thing that you could change about Kentucky High
school football, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
H You know, I've looked through the years, and you know,
we've gotten better each and every year that you know
that I've been associated with the Kentucky High School Athletic Associate.
I think they do an excellent job over there, and
you know how things have progressed all throughout the number
of years that I've been involved with all of this,
(12:09):
and I think it's gotten better each and every year.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And uh, the only thing negative thing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That I can think of that that I would change
is probably the sports medicine thing that doesn't that last
over six hours or whatever it is. I wish they
would condense it down to a couple of hours or
something like that and they would. That would help me
all a lot right there. But I'm sure they have
to do the things that they have to do. But
(12:37):
just keep up the good work and keep football going
in the right direction and uh, getting as many kids,
you know, to participate in in our sport as we
possibly can, and uh and keep it going in a
safe manner and uh just uh, you know, do the
things that that that we're supposed to do with with
high school football.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
I totally agree with Larry said about participation. I think
that's one of the things that I've got a one
year old grandson. I want high school football to still
be around when he's fifteen years old, around in a
manner where you want him to go play because he's
going to be around men. They're going to instill things
on him in him that they're gonna be valuable for
(13:20):
his life. And you know, I think that I'll get
back kind of a point I made while ago. I
hope that we continue to hire good coaches and hire
good people in our building to lead programs so those
programs can continue to be solid. It's not really anything
that we can change, it just helps, you know, building
off with Larry said, I hope we continue to grow
the game, and we all have to be good stewards
(13:43):
of the game us as coaches and administrators and be
able to relate to the ktches double A and allow
them to impact the game in a positive manner.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I think they've done a good job of evolving
it over the years. I don't really do and I
do think it's, as Kevin said, one of the you know,
really the one of the last things you know in
today's world is one of the last things that's got
some of that old school uh you know, Uh, I
don't know forces in it that that builds that character
(14:16):
and uh you know, it's it's a great sport, and
I wouldn't want it to change and get softer by
no means.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
You know, Chuck, I think that life is tough, and
if we don't do tough things, it's hard to be
a tough person. And I think that, uh, we all
understand that football is tough. It brings adversity to you
on every step.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, tomorrow morning we'll practice at six am. And I
told him, I said, I think it's one of the
best things we got going.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
We have a hard practice in the afternoon. It's hot.
Now you gotta get up early and be here at
five forty five am.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And uh, I agree with what y'all are saying. And
I think I think some tough things for kids to
fight for, it's going to help help them down the road.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I do, man, I appreciate what you y'all said.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
The next question for you guys, we're gonna go We're
gonna go back in time a little bit when you
first got started.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So I asked Coach French first, and I asked Kevin,
and let y'all think about this. Coach French, if my
dad were on this podcast with us right now, who
hired you to come with him at Mercer County in
seventy four, what would you say to him? And then
Kevin for you, I picked out Dan Haley, who my
dad said was the greatest offensive line coach in Kentucky
(15:28):
high school football. So if Coach Haley were sitting here
with us right now, what would you say to him?
So I'm just curious how you what you had, what
type of conversation, what you talk about with the guys
that were so instrumental when you guys got started.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Coach French, I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, first of all, I thank him for letting for
hiring me and getting me involved with, you know, coaching football,
and you know, and this being a mentor you know
for me, and you know, he he he was one
of those guys that if I needed to call and
talk to him about football or how to do this,
or how to handle this situation. He was always there
(16:07):
for me, and uh, you know, he did the things
that that that I needed him for him to do.
You know, he even helped me on Friday nights a
lot of times and give me suggestions and and that
type of stuff. Now, if you know, if I didn't
take those suggestions, he would inform me later if I
if I made a mistake. But uh, but you know
that's that's part of it. That's part of me growing
(16:30):
as a coach and having someone like that that I
could follow back on and and and have the things
that I needed, uh, you know to help me with
you know, when I when I was struggling back in
those days and and uh, you know, you still have
days that you struggle and you need a little bit
of uh uh you know, someone talking to you a
(16:52):
little bit about bringing back some of the old things
that that you used to do and uh and uh
that that worked and you know, remind you of the
things that you needed to do to help help kids,
and you know, that's what you're there for. And and
he was always good about doing that type of stuff.
And you know, he was always there for us, and
(17:12):
I really appreciate him and the things that he represented.
He represented the game of football the way, you know,
what it was meant to be, and I just, you know,
I think the world of him.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I appreciate it. Well.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Dan Haley changed my career, impacted my life, impacted my family.
I worked for him for two years in nineteen ninety
four ninety five, and obviously learned an awful lot about
the game, but probably learn more about the details the assignments,
(17:48):
the importance of teaching those assignments, and the importance of organization.
You know, if I don't spend two years with Dan Haley,
I'm not really sure where my career. I'm not sure
how long I would have really been of a high
school football coach. But I think that I was smart
enough to listen. I was smart enough to absorb. And
(18:10):
you know, my son Ryan, when he finished up playing
at Western, he was last year you know coach Haley
was was working with with coach Taggart. He had brought
him on as a volunteer and coaches just such a
deep thinker and a smart man, wonderful math teacher, and
just had an impact on a lot of people's lives
and obviously he changed my career.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, both of those guys were great. Uh of course John,
you know, David stad was was was a great coach,
and I liked being around him. I was around ing
a lot when he was you know, UH with Larry
and and you know, a scouting for him, and when
I was at Mercer with Larry and and then coach
(18:53):
Hailey I met when he was uh head coaching Cumberland
UH College and he came by one and I won't
share it now, but he gave me a he gave
me a piece of advice that really hit home and
it was really really good, and it was it was perfect,
it was exactly the way it was. And I'll share
that sometime on the show when we get to something
like that. But those are two great coaches that I
(19:16):
really had the privilege of being around and got to know.
My next question and my last question, I guess is, uh,
you know, when you guys look back, you know which
side of the ball has been the biggest key to winning.
And I know that the answer to this has always
(19:37):
been defense, But but what it has that changed over
the years, I mean, is it just I'm talking about
all the years you've been coaching, which you know, which
side of the ball has been the biggest key to winning.
Has it been offense, defense or specialty teams? And why
do you think that, Kevin, you want to go first
this time?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I think the number one thing, Chuck is we all
have as high school coaches. You better adapt to your resources.
And I think back of the better teams I've had,
they haven't all been the same. I coached some really
really strong defensive teams that had kickers that could kick
the ball in the end zone. I'm going to force
you to start at the twenty. We're going to three
(20:17):
and at you. We're gonna start every series on the
plus side of the field. It's gonna be pretty easy
for us to score. And obviously that starts with defense,
but that if you have that kicker in high school
football that can put in the end zone, that might
be one of the most underrated weapons that there is.
And then obviously, I've been able to coach really special
(20:38):
offensive talents and guys who could throw the ball, catch ball,
run the ball, and that have played at really high levels.
And I think that if you have those type of
individuals you can force defenses to do things that they're
uncomfortable with. So I hate to go around the world,
so to speak here chuck about all three sides. But
(21:00):
I think if you don't have a good mixture of
all three of them, you're probably not gonna be the
elite team.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah yeah, all right, Well, I think you better be
good in all three phases because if you're not, you're
not gonna win. You know, they're gonna these the teams today,
they're gonna find some way to beat you. And you know,
you better be good defensively, you better be saund in
what you're trying to do, and you better not give
(21:26):
up any big plays on defense. And then offensively, you
got to be able to score. If you can't score,
then you're not gonna win any football games. So we
got to find a way to you know, to put
the ball in the end zone or at least get
a few points anyway. And then on the kicking game,
it better be saynd you know, in today's world, they
can change it over in a hurry. One play can
(21:47):
and you know they can return one for a score
on the kick call or the or the punt return,
or you can block up kick or you know, anything
like that, or you can miss an extra point and
it could cost you, you know, you know, a loss there.
So anything that you're doing football wise, you better be
saund in everything that you're doing. But you know, if
(22:08):
I had to pick one, it would probably be on
the defensive side of the ball. And we'd have to
be fundamentally sound in everything that we do, you know, defensively,
and you know, we've got to be able to you know,
tackle people and you got to find a way to
get them on the ground. And if you can't do that,
then you're not going to win very many games.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yeah, it's a it was. It's a tough question because
today's football, I mean it's all about offense. I mean
you those games of back in the day when you
were winning them seven to nothing, fourteen to thirty, those
games don't exist anymore. I mean they're you know, they're
thirty five to twenty one. I mean they're thirty one
to twenty thirty five. I mean they're big, tashtcore games.
(22:51):
And if you don't have an offense that can put
some points on the board, you're not even going to
be in the game. And I think my experience has
been uh, and of course the kicking game help. You know,
at South Warren last year we lost a game on
that lost the last game the semi finals because of
specialty teams. But my my fault is that when you
(23:14):
get to the state camp game, I think that's when
you usually the best because both offenses had to be
good to get there. I think the team that plays
the best defense in the state championship game is usually
the team that wins.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
All right, Hey, so my last question for you guys, uh,
what is one piece of advice you would give to
any young coaches that are listing right now?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Coach French, I'll let you go.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
First and better hiring a good bunch of assistant coaches
that are in the building with him and that will
be loyal to him, and that you better study a
lot of him.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
First thing I would say, David, don't I think this
will be surprising to you after spending a year with us,
is pick up the book above the line and read it.
Grow accustomed to studying a little bit of what Focused three,
which is a group that kind of herban Meyer talks
about an offline in that book, because what you're going
(24:20):
to be able to develop from the things that you're
gonna find in that book are not just plays, but
it's more about how to empower players, more about how
to empower everybody that's in your program. To take ownership
of your program, you've got to be willing to coach coaches,
coach players, coach managers, coach everybody you've got. You know,
you can't just hire somebody say okay, I'm gonnahire a
(24:42):
good guy and put them to work. I mean, everything
that you want to create in your culture is your
responsibility as a head coach, and it's not all going
to be about sitting down and being able to draw
up a great play. Your ability to develop leaders and
strengthen your culture and empower people is going to be
the most important thing that you can do as a
(25:03):
head coach.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Ord I argue with either one of you, Hey, cause I.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Got a podcast question for you here.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Not on the list, but I'm hey if you First
of all, I'm not one hundred percent sure that I
buy that this is your last season.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You know, I have to see it before I believe it.
Let me throw this question out here. Larry has three
hundred and sixty nine wins and he's number three, and
Kevin has three hundred and sixty one and he's number
four on the list. If this year turned out Larry
had a bunch of injuries and didn't have as many
wins as he was expecting, and Kevin had a great
(25:45):
year and had a whole lot more, and it ended
up at the end of the year maybe.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Tied or two or three separated.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Would we get another year out of you?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
The absolutely not. You need to speak to Dana Wallace
on that subject.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh boy, You know, I don't know what the Pudson
store for me down the road. But you know, as
far as leaving Middlesbrough that I probably will leave Middlesbrough
in December. And you know, if I get back into
the head coaching position again, my wife would probably.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
She might just shoot me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
So I probably probably won't do that. So I think
my head coaching career will be over with in December.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It's always kind of ever known, and we probably both
feel like we've really never worked a day in our
life because we've embraced and enjoyed what we've done. There
is a great unknown for both of us when the
clock rolls around in twenty twenty six, because we have
to fill all that time, and we have to fill
it with something that that passionate about. And I don't
(27:01):
have any idea what that is yet, but I'm looking
forward to it when when the time comes. Right now,
I'm interested in getting Saint X. You ready to play football, yes, sir, Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Hey great, Yeah, that's been great.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, you've been You've been wonderful guests, and more importantly,
what you've meant to young men and people and communities
in this state an immeasurable positive impact on others.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Absolutely through the roof and uh, I appreciate your perspective
on this season, and as somebody that loves and appreciates
both of you, Uh, I hope you enjoy every single
second that you got this fall. I hope every moment
you can savor it and embrace it and enjoy it as.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Much as you can.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The distraction the idiots that we have to deal with
at times.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I'm sorry for the word, but they're out there. Okay,
they are. There's no other word for.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Uh Hey, as much as you can put those folks
on the back burner and uh enjoy every second, You've
absolutely earned it, and uh, I think what we get
to do coach in high school football is incredible. As
you said, it's it's it's it's gain worth today a
job you know, it's really not. But man, I hope
(28:24):
you guys have an absolute blast and have so much
fun that you can't wipe the smile like your face
whenever you walk off the field the last time.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Larry, good luck. Man. I hope you end up with
as many winds ahead of me as you have now
and both of us don't add to the losses.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Evin, I don't. I really don't care about the wins
and losses. I just want our kids to play the
way they're supposed to play and I'll be happy and
good luck to you guys of this season. Thanks man,
Thank you guys.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Awesome, thank you all so much, thank you all for
doing this.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you of the show. Which is the tough topic.
It is from Purple eighty eight on Bluegrass Preps and
it's if you know your opponent has a dangerous kick
returner or a punt returner, you know what's the best
approach to apply when you're kind of defending that team?
(29:24):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, yeah, well kickoff is a little bit simpler because
it's a lot easier to not kick toing, So that
part's a little bit easier, whether it's a squib kick
or skykick.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Now I've lived this punt returner thing.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Our punt was awful at Mason County and we went
to that open punt. You remember us using it because
we played against each other, and this is to me,
this was the best.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Reinforcement that that's what we needed to do.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know, Highland's historically has been killer on punt return
They'd run that reverse, those deep backs. I mean incredible,
absolutely incredible. So I wish I could tell you we
won the game.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
We didn't.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
In two thousand and three, we're playing them in the
snow and we've got to punt the ball to them.
Holand stands there. They watch us punt it. They don't rush,
they don't do anything. They watch us punt it. We
punt it, and I think Dustin Grutzel might have been
my punter, or maybe it's Bryan Sweet, but Dustin was
the upback. Ty Sargent ran down and I think he
(30:33):
actually caught the punt. I mean, Hyland's doesn't even they
don't even an attempt to return it. They don't even
attempt to catch it. And so you know, we totally
neutralized one of the best things that Hyland's has done
forever by having our open punt and having the threat
of the fake. And I think I think the obvious
(30:55):
is that you don't kick to or punt to these guys.
But I think if you can somehow lip it and
you can make the other team defend you instead of
set up whatever they want to set up, I think
that I think you get.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
A lot of mileage out of that. I do.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't I'm not sure
I have a good answer, you know it. It has
to be a game plan decision really uh and uh,
there's a lot of factors to consider, you know, in
that game plan. You know, it makes it really hard
because you probably you're going to be wrong. You know,
(31:33):
if you've got a skill that can that could be
a game changer, you're probably going to be wrong with
your answer. But you know, for example, like you know,
if you kick it to him, then your gambling, Uh,
he's probably in high school football, he's probably better than
your kickoff or punt coverage personnel. And then he will
(31:55):
be in space, you know, making it very difficult for
you to get him down. Uh. And then if you
squib it to him, then you're giving their offense great
field position, you know, and and you know how good
is their offense. And if they have Cam Little on
their team, it's an automatic three points. The guy that
(32:16):
h Jacksonville Jaguars, they kicked that seventy yard field goal,
it's not automatic three points.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Of course. The best solution is to you know, kick
it in the end zone. It solves all your problems.
Kevin talked about that while ago. It's a game changer
if you have a kicker that can put it in
the end zone. It really is. I've had a few,
but I've also had plenty that weren't that couldn't.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So, and then on the punt, you know, you can
either fake it, you can go forward on fourth down,
or you can kick it out of bounds. But whatever
you do, just don't let him have it in space.
You know, I prefer to kick it out of bounds.
Bottom line is trying not the less specialty teams beat you.
(33:03):
You know, you got to make it. I think you
got to try to make it an offense and a
defensive game, because that's what you spend most of your
time on in practice in high school football is offensive defense.
I know, it's easy easy to say that because you know,
you know, if if, if, if their offense is any good,
then you you know, you put your putting your defense
(33:23):
in a buying Uh. Unfortunately, I have lost a few
games in my career. Uh you know with this situation,
you know, kicking it to a skilled guy. Uh. So
my answer, I guess my answer is I think a
game plan the situation, and I emphasize the word the situation.
You know, what do you have in personnel versus what
they have? You know, consider your coverage personnel, consider uh,
(33:48):
you know, your defense versus their offense, the field position,
and also the situation and the time of the game.
You know, uh is you know at the time of
the game, if you know, is it okay to swim
it to him? You know, what kind of a lead
do you have if you haven't? You know, all those
things have got to be considered. It's a game, you know,
it's it's just a game plan situation where you've got
(34:10):
to uh understand the situation of the game. And and
what you have versus what they have in personnel.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
That's the answer. Good. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It's a good answer because it's a real answer, which
is it's not it's always not real cut and dry,
and like you said, it is a time that you'll
get to where well, you know, what we really need
to do is we need to be really good on
our fourth down offense because if we punt it, it's
not going to be good. And yeah, I like your answer.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
I do. That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, David, we go to the next part of the
UH uh you know, of the of the UH program,
and you know, just a couple of brief things to
talk about. You know, we've we've had a you know,
an idea or a challenge really of a you know,
(35:06):
Brian Webb of w BKO Bowling Green. He picked some
games and he wants to challenge us. And I think
we're going to get to that challenge maybe in the playoffs.
I think he was a one hundred and nineteen was
one hundred nineteen and twenty four last year, which is
pretty all gone good.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
But that's actually actually that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
But I'll tell you what my man, David B. Pannon
has been seventeen and one in the state games over
the last three years. So hey, I'm gonna put David
against anybody, all right.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, hey, maybe maybe he wants to come after us
because by one loss was Bowling Green. That's my one
loss is Bowling Green beat Cooper, and I picked Cooper
to win up. But yeah, I think I think we
get to the state championship game. I think I think
there's a lot of potential there to maybe invite some
other media people and uh, you know, as we've talked about,
(36:04):
you know, they're there's sort of a foundational piece we always.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Want to have. We want to entertain and we want
to educate.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
But at the same time, though, I think our willingness
to you know, maybe take a little different.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Approach here and there, and uh, I think I think that.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
In November, Uh, there might be something absolutely we need
to look at.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
And I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, I bet you are.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You're always there for us, well, but I'm I'm looking
forward to it till later.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I can't pick anybody this.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Week, but by the by the time we get to
by the time we get to the end, you can
get a pretty good feel for who's doing what you
really can.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So we'll say that to the end, but we will
take on those challenges. But we'll wait to the end
and we might get some other media guys involved with
that as well. Yes, speaking of this this this opening
week here, man, there's some really big games coming up.
There's I went through the schedule will and some really
(37:02):
highlighted games. I think that opening the season that would
be worth going and watching. You got Bell County playing Campbellsville.
That ought to be a really really good game.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You got Manuel playing Louisville Central. Wow, that's gonna be
a tough game. You've got Highland's playing Frederick Douglass and
I know Holland's is supposed to be pretty good this year.
Frederick Douglas is always good. Lexington Catholic and Ballard. What
about that game, David, that's gonna be a good South
Warren and Bryan Station. Another really good opening game with
(37:32):
two good, two good football teams owens berl and St. X.
That'll be a good football game. Owensborough's. You've got a
great running back in St xas Saint X. And you've
got Pipe and Cal both you know state championship. You
know caliber teams and Bullet East and Boyle County ought
to be a good football game too. So uh, I agree,
(37:55):
Opening opening game. Opening week has got some highlighted, big
time games.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm I'm a little more.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
One of the games I'm sort of interested in is Ponner,
who just lost their head coach, David Trosper, who's actually
a family member of Stephanie's.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Uh. Of course, my youngest son's trosh for David Utannan.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Uh. But you know they lost their coach, David Trosper,
wonderful man, wonderful friend. Well, Noel Rash has taken over
the great Beechwood coach and they're going to play a
very good Madison Central team that we're actually is our
last scrimmage is Madison Central and William Blair is the
head coach there. And I think that's gonna be an
(38:38):
interesting matchup. And uh, I look for both those two.
I look for both those that have pretty good football teams.
I really do.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
And you brought up David Prosper, and uh, you know
it's unfortunate, you know, uh the Kentucky high school football
lost lost him. Uh uh this this summer, and you
know what we just had some I don't know, we've
had some coaches pass away, and uh, you know which
you know, prayers to him and his family, and we
(39:07):
wish nothing best but for Connor High School. And and
and I also lost a very close friend, David I
lost just recently, I lost Chris Purdue. And Chris was
my right hand man. He was the offensive coordinator for
Boyle County for all the years I guess that I
was there, and you know, I think we worked together,
(39:29):
you know, twenty something years and known each other for
you know, thirty something years, and you know, he's uh,
he was, he was. He was just a great person
and a great football coach and a very very good friend.
Him and I, his family and my family vacation together,
and uh, we were just good friends. And I'll tell
you I'm just going to miss you know, I'm having
(39:52):
really a hard trouble, hard time believing that it's that
he's even gone. He's gone at an early age, and uh,
I justruggle with that. I mean, I just I just
think that, you know, he's going to be there when
I call next time, and and and the fact of
the matter is he's not. And it's it's really. Uh,
(40:13):
it's really disappointing that al I don't know if disappointing
is the word. It's really sad that that you know
that that he he left us in an early age.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
It is and Uh an elite football coach.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
UH an elite football coach, and man as well, UH
an incredible offensive mind.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
I hope it's.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Okay I share this story I used to tell on
Chris Uh. Chris was an incredible offensive coordinator, incredible sometimes
he sort of had some bumps in the road when
he was the head coach.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I used to tell you this.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I said, you know, when you and I have been
in the coach's office, which are our assistant coaches, and
we'd be talking about the things we're dealing with, our
assistant coaches get all wound up and they'd say, for example, well,
if I were the head coach, I tell the bosses
they can kiss my tail. And you know, you and
I are sort of sitting over there saying, I'm not
(41:11):
gonna do that, guys, but they all they're all gung
ho and they are ready to go.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
And here's the difference. This is when Chris and I
did a lot of ways. I respect him for this.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
When Chris became a head coach, he still told the
bosses what he thought. He did not back off or
change because he was the head coach. He was still
Chris Pardue and sometimes I think that might have made
it a little tougher for him, but always respected that
about him.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Chris was always Chris.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And the last thing I do want to say in
two thousand and five, he was our offensive coordinator for
that Kentucky Tennessee All Star Game and I tell you
one of Hey, we kicked Tennessee's tail. I mean, Chris
did a great job. Forty one point. Brandon Smith, Curtis
Pulley are quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I mean, I think it's.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The most talent ever on one high school team in Kentucky.
Brandon Dietrich, Earl Haymon, Jordan Nevills, Mike Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
I mean, it's phenomenal the talent that was on that team.
But I still think about this.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
We got a time out and it's me and Chris
and Brandon, and I'm like, there's like a minute and
a half to play, and I'm like, guys, let's get
this game over with and go home. Brandon says, I
want to score again. So Brandon goes back out there,
he Fate's taking a knee and the next thing I know,
(42:39):
we have a bitch clearing brawl in the two thousand
and five Kentucky Tennessee game. But hey, we did kick
their tills. In fact, we kicked their tails to bad
they got to where they didn't want to play.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
That game anymore. We were doing good.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But that was, I tell you what, you talk about
a special moment for me to be a time out
with Brandon Smith and Chris Pardue representing the state of Kentucky. Man,
that was a great moment. That was a great moment,
and uh, you know what, I knew it at the time.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
At the time, I knew, I knew what was going on,
And uh that's those will always be the things sort
of stick out for me with Chris and uh, just
a wonderful friend and absolutely incredible offensive mind as well.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah, what about this, David, what about Chris is going
maybe uh, Philip he Wood is going to hire Chris
as his offense and maybe David prosper as the defensive coordinator.
What a staff that he's going to have up there.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, I just I know, but I want to be sting.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I want to be sitting in the staff meeting when
coach Haywood says we're going to run the belly and Chris,
Chris is wanting to spread out the field, and uh,
you know, do something different. But yeah, I just you
know the way you put it like that, Well we have, man,
you talk about some wonderful men and coaches that we've lost,
(44:09):
and you know, then I start thinking about Jim Mattney
and Tys Kroggins, and well, I tell you what a
how blessed, how thankful that our patht has crossed with theirs.
And you know the thing about those guys, and I
know we all want to win. I mean that goes
(44:29):
with it, and we're all competitive people. I mean, you
can't separate that piece of it. But I think the
biggest impact in the longest legacy is really the impact
those guys have on other people, especially their players, and
those life lessons and I think it's the way you
approach your work and the way you approach your life,
(44:51):
and it's a mindset and the way you go about
your day. I think there's a lot of guys walking
around just like branded shared and Chris the service about
you know how Chris. You know, Chris's approach has impacted
the type of young man Brandon Smith is And I'm
just man, I tell you what I'm I'm.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
Thankful for those guys.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I miss him, and uh, I think the rest of
us has got to we got to fill the void
and step in that place and be those kind of
people that those men were.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
David, you said it very well, and I know that
I know I'm gonna miss him too. So anyway, I
appreciate all the kind of words and appreciate the listeners
tuning in tonight. Anything on our next uh that you
have for our next episode.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Well, uh, I know one thing that I think our
listeners are gonna be really interested in is uh. I
know that there is a lot of talk on the
internet about should Kentucky High school football beat pursued doing
seven on seven in June and a lot of people
(46:04):
questioning why that decision was made, Why did football coaches
give up seven on.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
Seven in June?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
And all those types of things. So I think that, uh,
I think our listeners will enjoy that because I think
we're we're gonna talk about that, and but I think
it's what's gonna make it good. It's not just gonna
be that we're gonna talk about, you know, should you
have seven on seven in June? But I think it'll
(46:32):
be good to talk about, Uh, you know, this is
this is why, this is why those coaches went along
with that, and uh, you know, I'll enjoy sharing sort
of how I remember it and you know, sort of
how I thought it went down, and uh, it was
a really fascinating time. But I think I think our
(46:55):
listeners are gonna enjoy that conversation.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
And uh, you know, and here's the other thing too.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
You love to teach me about being on the fence,
and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
I'm good with that.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
But I also think this though, I think a sign
of intelligence is that we change our mind.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
And my mind has changed.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Over the years on did we really do it exactly
the right way? Was that really the best way? And
I sort of go back and forth on it sometimes,
and I'd love to tell everybody that, hey, I always
know one hundred percent this is what I should have done,
and I never changed my mind, but that would not
be the truth.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
And I do want to share this though.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Our episode two guests will be the new head coach
at Meath County. Blake powers, and I think Blake is
going to be super and I'm excited about it too,
because Blake and I played for Larry French in high school.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
I mean, we're always going to be running into guys.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Hey, my son in law played for Larry French in
high school and he played for you, and that's part
of what makes all.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
This so cool.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And you know, I'm really thankful that we get to
do this and looking forward to a great season four.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
You got me fired up for season for episode two already.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
We'll have to we'll have to compare Larry French stories.
But I got a feeling that probably Coach French approached
Blake a little differently than I did because there might
be a slight chance that Blake was a better athlete
than I was. Just a slight chance. But we'll still
have fun with that. And hey, I can't believe I
got through the episode with Coach French tonight and he
(48:33):
never brought up that I was the slowest quarterback he
ever coached. I mean, that always just thrown in somewhere,
and he must have felt sorry.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
For me tonight because he didn't hit me with that tonight.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I almost Hey, when he's nice to me, that's when
I start worrying about his health.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah. And he didn't ask you to get the combes either,
remember that.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
No, No, I know, Hey, I didn't go down this
road when we were introducing him. But when Coach French
entered viewed with my dad came to the house spring
in nineteen seventy four, Okay, I had even turned Uh,
I need to try. I was eight years old, all right.
In Coach French's mind, I've been eight years old the
(49:14):
last fifty one years.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
That's just how he sees me. And he's never, oh,
I love this.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Hey what he's talking about my dad helping him and
bringing him stuff. I think I've told you this. I'd
had my scouting reports all drawn up. I'd have it
color coded down, distance, hash and tendencies and four bases.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
And all this.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Coach Fries take myselff. He folded up, going off to
the side, Hey, where's your dad's notes? He didn't even
want to see what.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I had to do.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
And he's like, David couldn't know what he think that's
David said, what's your dad, what's your dad got so
But that's all good.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
That's all good. That makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
And I love Coach and boy, I tell you what,
I appreciate him more every day.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Every day I appreciate him more. I really do.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yeahy, And listeners, don't forget to tuned in with Mac's
historical segment. It comes on to as soon as we
finished talking. It's one of the highlights of the program
and highlights of the show. He's always spot on. It's
really interesting. So tune into that and we'll catch you
next time.
Speaker 7 (50:15):
Long ago towns and cities across Kentucky had areas with catchy,
interesting names, places like shake Rag, Jonesville, the Crawl, the
Big Bottoms, the West Side, and more. Some were simply
called the wrong side of the tracks. These areas were
(50:37):
thriving little cities within a city, bustling enclaves with shops, stores,
lodge halls, movie theaters, bars, restaurants, and schools. These unique
areas were primarily made up of African American residents, and
the schools were black only schools. The late nineteenth century
(51:01):
and early twentieth century had seen African American schools pop
up across Kentucky from Hickman Riverview on the banks of
the Mighty Mississippi to Pikeville's Perry Kline School in the
Eastern Kentucky Mountains. From Morganfield Dunbar in the western Kentucky
Colfields to Middlesbrough Lincoln in the heart of the Eastern
(51:23):
Kentucky coal mines. This is forgotten Heroes. I'm your host,
mack Yoakam, and I want to tell you a story.
In the early nineteen thirties, the leaders of the state's
black schools got together to form the Kentucky High School
Athletic League, the Black equivalent to the Kentucky High School
(51:47):
Athletic Association. Their purpose was to start hosting championships in basketball, football,
and track and field. By the end of the KHSAL
in nineteen fifty seven, as many as sixty nine schools
had been members. The principals divided the state into five regions.
(52:07):
The West of Highway forty one region went from the
Mississippi River to Madisonville. The East of Highway forty one
region had teams like Bowling Green, Owensboro, and Glasgow. The
Central region featured teams from Louisville down to Horse Cave,
the Mountain Eastern Region covered the area from Pikeville to
(52:31):
Hazzard to Harlan, and the Bluegrass Region that went from
Ashland to Lexington to Somerset to Frankfort. Over the next
several episodes, we're going to learn about these iconic schools, teams,
players and coaches, but for this one, we might as
well start with a history making event. The nineteen thirty
(52:55):
three KHSAL State Tournament had all of the powerhouse teams
Central Mayo, Underwood, Richmond, Madisonville, Lexington Dunbar. Because there were
only five regions, a formula was used that allowed more
than one team from a region to go to the
state tournament at Belgium on the campus of Kentucky State
(53:18):
College now Kentucky State University in Frankfort. Louisville Central represented
the Central Region, but they weren't the only Louisville team
in the field. Jackson Junior High School was also there.
That's right, a junior high school was playing for a
(53:39):
Kentucky State High School basketball championship. That never happened before
and it has never happened again. One can only guess
as to why Jackson Junior High was permitted into the
high School State Tournament. Jackson Junior High was built in
nineteen twenty nine at the corner of Jackson and Breckinridge
(54:01):
Street in Louisville. A photo in the digital collection at
the University of Louisville is labeled construction of new Colored
High School, and another digital image in the archive, this
one a construction invoice, says building materials for new Colored
High School. So maybe the plan was for a new
(54:25):
black high school in that area of Louisville and Jackson
Junior High was granted permission. We just don't know. No
newspaper accounts mentioned any extenuating circumstances, But whatever the reason,
Jackson Junior High School did indeed take the Belgim Court
as part of the tournament field in nineteen thirty three.
(54:48):
Jackson Junior High did have coaching star power, though the
team was coached by Mel Whidby. He'd been a star
athlete at Central a few years before he then starred
at Fisk Universe. His family was well known throughout Louisville.
His father, doctor Ellis Widby, founded Louisville's Red Cross Hospital
(55:08):
for African Americans, and his mother, Bertha, was the first
female African American policewoman in Louisville. Coach Whidby had the
Red Streaks ready to play in that state tournament. In
the first round, the Louisville lads squared off with Higgins
High from the coal mining town of Vico in Perry County.
(55:31):
The Streaks took that one, thirty eight to twenty six.
In round two, they faced another mountain team, Manchester B
from Clay County, and the Streaks won that one thirty
six to thirteen. Onto the quarterfinals and always tough Paris
Western Jackson Junior High kept their winning streak going, winning
(55:54):
twenty eight to eleven. In the semis, Jackson Junior High
faced off with John G. Fee from Maysville. Fee had
been state runners up the previous year and Coach Wedby's
youngsters put up a fight but fell twenty eight to
twenty seven. Fee would lose the state championship game to
(56:17):
Frankfurt's Mayo Underwood thirty to twenty five. When Coach Wedby
and Jackson Junior High got back to Louisville, they had
a huge pep rally at the school. People from all
over Louisville came to honor Jackson Junior High School. Now
there are no articles that tells of what happened to
(56:40):
those young men who carried Jackson Junior High to the
State high School semi finals. One can guess that some
of them moved on to Central High. As for coach Wedby,
he continued coaching, eventually coaching the Kentucky State University football
team for several years. In the early nineteen sixties. Jackson
(57:02):
Junior High had a transformation as well. It became the
award winning Misike Middle School in nineteen sixty six. Oh
and what happened to some of those communities we mentioned
in the beginning of the episode. Most fell victim to
urban renewal. Shakerag was mostly torn down to make room
(57:24):
for a huge medical complex in Bowling Green. Jonesville also
in Bowling Green was given to Western Kentucky University, and
the Hilltopper Athletic Complex sits where the Jonesville community once stood.
And the krawl in Frankfort was torn down to make
(57:45):
room for the sense demolished State Office building and the
Frankfort Civic Center. The story of Jackson Junior High, the
only non high school to ever play for a Kentucky
State high school. Title was inspired by the book Shadows
of the Past by former KHSAA commissioner the late Lewis Stout.
(58:11):
Join us next time, Unforgotten Heroes, when I'll have another
story to tell.
Coach David Buchanan Coach Chuck Smith, two legendary high school
football coaches. This is the Coach's Office, a behind the
(00:33):
scenes look at Kentucky high school football.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
We also want to thank our kickoff episode sponsor, Kelly
Wilkins of five S fundraising. Once again, Kelly has doubled
our goal at Anderson County High School for fundraising. Our
goal is always tenth thousand dollars. Again, two years in
(01:02):
a row we have hit twenty thousand dollars. If you
want an aggressive go getter to fundraise for your program,
Kelly Wilkins is the man.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Okay, Welcome to the Coach's Office behind the scenes with
Chuck Smith and David Buchanan. This is season four, episode one,
so this is the start of a new season. I'm
Chuck Smith. I'm joined by co host David Buchanan, podcast
editor Slash Slash slashback storyteller Mike Yoakum. Your YouTube version
(01:38):
of this podcast is at teacot. That's T dot C,
dot O dot P. If you hit like and subscribe,
that helps us out.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Tonight's show. We kick off the season with an unforgettable
opening show. Joining Joining, Joining Us are two legendary figures
in Kentucky high school football, Larry French of Middlesborough High
School and Kevin Wallace of Saint X High School. These
coaching giants have shaped generations of athletes. Both have announced
(02:11):
that this will be their final season, so stay tuned.
We're going to get to them in just a second.
Our tough topic for tonight is from Purple eighty eight
on Bluegrass Preps. He says, if you have your opponent,
or if your opponent has a dangerous kick returner or
a punt returner, what is the best approach you know
(02:35):
to apply to defending that? As a good question, I've
lost a few games over that, so I don't know
if it will be much help with that, but I'll
give my opinion, and then to talk just a little
bit about the coaches before we bring them on. Before
David brings them on. Larry French Middlesborough High School has
(02:56):
three hundred and sixty nine wins. He coached at Mercer County.
David and I both coached with Larry at Mercer County.
What a great experience. He coached atne County, Lincoln County,
Boyle County, Southwestern Pulaski and now he's at Middlesborough High School.
He has two state championships. He is the third winning
(03:19):
his coach in Kentucky high school football, and he's entering
his forty eighth season as a head football coach. I
think I'm right on that. If I mess those numbers
up anywhere, y'all correct me when you come on. Kevin
Wallace at Saint X High School has three hundred and
sixty one wins with only one hundred and twenty six losses.
(03:40):
He's coached at Warren East Bowling Green for twenty two
years and now he's at Saint X. I believe for
his eighth season. He's won six state championships. He's the
fourth winning as coach in Kentucky high school football, and
he's entering his fortieth season as a head football coach.
So between them they got seven and thirty wins, eight
(04:03):
state championships. So I think they know what they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, they're they're excellent, that's for sure. Yeah, I want
to bring him on, Coach French. I still remember the
white Corvette Springing nineteen seventy four driving up to our house.
Carrigo drive my dad hired him and coach french Man.
He's been family ever since that time. And then I
(04:29):
tell you what. I was in a rough spot. I
didn't have a job, and Kevin Wallace.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Put me to work a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And I could go on and on about that too,
but Kevin is I tell you what, well, it used
to take me thirty minutes off the video now takes
me about five to ten. I really learned a lot.
And these are two guys that have been very important
to me, have really done a lot to help me.
And there're two, as you said, two of the finest
coaches of the States ever seen. And I'm very thankful
(04:58):
that they've been a big part of my life and
very excited about this episode.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I can't imagine a better way to kick it off.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And you know, in coaching, a lot of times talking
about things coming to an end, we don't like to
talk about it.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
And for them to be willing to come on here
and talk about.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
This going into their final season, you talk about a
truly behind the scenes look at the life of a
high school football coach, and in this case, two great
football coaches man our listeners. They can't find anything like
this anywhere else, It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Welcome to the show, guys, appreciate you having us, Chuck, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Thanks, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah. I'm going to start with the first question here, Larry,
he can go first on the answer that Kevin can
answer it, you know, the way he wants to. But
what do you believe has been the key to your
sustained success? I mean, you guys have had years and
years and years of success. Where do you think the
keys have been?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I think just having good assistant coaches. You know,
it's probably been about as consistent as anything. And you
know you have to have good assistant coaches to get
things accomplished anymore. And you've got to have players, you know,
that will bite into what you're trying to do. And
you know, you've got to have a community that will
(06:21):
back it, and a school system that will back what
you're trying to do also, So, uh, there's a lot
of things that go into it. I think you've got
to be consistent, you got to be fair, and I
think you've got to treat your kids the right way.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Good answer, now, I like that.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Larry hit on a number of things that all officers
would say, I think that when I've had an opportunity
to speak on program organization, I always talk about the
five essential things that I think that have to be
present for you to be able to have an excellent
high school football program. And you have to have an
administrative group thatunderstands the value of what an elite sports
(07:03):
team can bring to that district or to that school.
I think that you've got to have, you know, Larry
said it, a community that supports you not only put
we're into the seats, but also are financially going to
support your programs to where you can do great things. Obviously,
that administration has to understand the value of hiring coaches,
and then obviously you got to have great staff and
(07:23):
great players. Nobody wins a Derby on a mule. I mean,
we've all got to have guys that can play and
can run and hit and make plays. So Larry and
I both have been very fortunate to be in places
that that had a little bit, if not all, five
of those things.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Are going to have.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Most of them in place so you can have success.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
You certainly do, but it all really starts with a
guy that has a vision, and both of you guys
have proven over the years that y'all have that vision
and been able to you know, put together and the
parts of that vision. And y'all mentioned the parts. But
it takes a guy that's relentless with that vision and
it's not going to accept anything but that standard that
(08:07):
he that he that he presents, and you guys have
proven over the years you do that.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I've I've been fortunate to work with both and really
for both as head coaches, and uh, I mean they're
exceptional leaders.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And uh, I think if I were going to pick
out one thing about both of them, they react at
the level appropriate that an event deserves. You know, I'll
just be honest about myself. Sometimes I will react to
stuff and I make it worse.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Coach French and Coach Wallace are really good about They
just they're just they're a lot more even killed And
I think that's to me, that was one thing I
wish I was more like both of them, and that
uh I think after watching Kevin a second time, I
hope I'm becoming more like that. But I know that's
one thing I really enjoyed about both of them when
(09:02):
I saw them leading as head coaches.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
So I don't know about you, but I've never had
an official to describe me as even keeled.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I wouldn't say that the officials would describe me that
way either, but I've tried to be nice to them
here lately. Well, they do a great job with their
coaches and their players.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
So so, coach, is my first question.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
For you.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Going into the opening game. This is your last season
as a head football coach. And I mean it's like,
I really don't even feel like saying last season as
a head football coach.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Does it justice?
Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean, this is your last season of a legendary,
incredible career of success, of affecting young people over an
incredibly long sustained time. I mean, this is what you
all done has been incredible. So my question to you
is you're getting ready to hit this last season in
(10:02):
your first game. Where's your mind right now? What are
you guys thinking about? What are your priorities right now? Well,
my priorities is trying to get our team ready to
play Breath of County. I'm not worried about how many
games I got left in my career or what game
it is. The next game is breathat County, And that's
(10:23):
all I'm worried about right now is trying to get
all of our players and all of our coaches ready
to play that first ball game because it's gonna be
a tough one. And I'm not worried about anything else
except that.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And we're all gonna agree with that. But I think
one of the things for me that my players and
my coaches deserve me to continue to be a problem solver.
They deserve for me to stay in the moment. They
don't need for this season to become about Kevin Walks.
It needs to be about saying, ex football, it needs
(10:57):
to be more about our seniors than it is just
because it's my senior year or my senior time as
the head coach. I don't want to do anything to
distract from those seniors that I have on the football team.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Yeah. I didn't expect any other answer, did you, David?
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, now I didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And uh, I just you know, I'm gonna shut up
on what you talk. But I'm just saying it's entertaining
for listeners. But man, young coaches can learn. I can
learn so much by hearing these guys. This is just
really really good stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Guys. Thank y'all go ahead of you get the next
one there.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Oh, hey, guys, y'all have been doing it for a
lot of years now, for forty eight and forty. If
there's one thing that you could change about Kentucky High
school football, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
H You know, I've looked through the years, and you know,
we've gotten better each and every year that you know
that I've been associated with the Kentucky High School Athletic Associate.
I think they do an excellent job over there, and
you know how things have progressed all throughout the number
of years that I've been involved with all of this,
(12:09):
and I think it's gotten better each and every year.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
And uh, the only thing negative thing.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
That I can think of that that I would change
is probably the sports medicine thing that doesn't that last
over six hours or whatever it is. I wish they
would condense it down to a couple of hours or
something like that and they would. That would help me
all a lot right there. But I'm sure they have
to do the things that they have to do. But
(12:37):
just keep up the good work and keep football going
in the right direction and uh, getting as many kids,
you know, to participate in in our sport as we
possibly can, and uh and keep it going in a
safe manner and uh just uh, you know, do the
things that that that we're supposed to do with with
high school football.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
I totally agree with Larry said about participation. I think
that's one of the things that I've got a one
year old grandson. I want high school football to still
be around when he's fifteen years old, around in a
manner where you want him to go play because he's
going to be around men. They're going to instill things
on him in him that they're gonna be valuable for
(13:20):
his life. And you know, I think that I'll get
back kind of a point I made while ago. I
hope that we continue to hire good coaches and hire
good people in our building to lead programs so those
programs can continue to be solid. It's not really anything
that we can change, it just helps, you know, building
off with Larry said, I hope we continue to grow
the game, and we all have to be good stewards
(13:43):
of the game us as coaches and administrators and be
able to relate to the ktches double A and allow
them to impact the game in a positive manner.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I think they've done a good job of evolving
it over the years. I don't really do and I
do think it's, as Kevin said, one of the you know,
really the one of the last things you know in
today's world is one of the last things that's got
some of that old school uh you know, Uh, I
don't know forces in it that that builds that character
(14:16):
and uh you know, it's it's a great sport, and
I wouldn't want it to change and get softer by
no means.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
You know, Chuck, I think that life is tough, and
if we don't do tough things, it's hard to be
a tough person. And I think that, uh, we all
understand that football is tough. It brings adversity to you
on every step.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Now, tomorrow morning we'll practice at six am. And I
told him, I said, I think it's one of the
best things we got going.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
We have a hard practice in the afternoon. It's hot.
Now you gotta get up early and be here at
five forty five am.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And uh, I agree with what y'all are saying. And
I think I think some tough things for kids to
fight for, it's going to help help them down the road.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I do, man, I appreciate what you y'all said.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
The next question for you guys, we're gonna go We're
gonna go back in time a little bit when you
first got started.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So I asked Coach French first, and I asked Kevin,
and let y'all think about this. Coach French, if my
dad were on this podcast with us right now, who
hired you to come with him at Mercer County in
seventy four, what would you say to him? And then
Kevin for you, I picked out Dan Haley, who my
dad said was the greatest offensive line coach in Kentucky
(15:28):
high school football. So if Coach Haley were sitting here
with us right now, what would you say to him?
So I'm just curious how you what you had, what
type of conversation, what you talk about with the guys
that were so instrumental when you guys got started.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Coach French, I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Well, first of all, I thank him for letting for
hiring me and getting me involved with, you know, coaching football,
and you know, and this being a mentor you know
for me, and you know, he he he was one
of those guys that if I needed to call and
talk to him about football or how to do this,
or how to handle this situation. He was always there
(16:07):
for me, and uh, you know, he did the things
that that that I needed him for him to do.
You know, he even helped me on Friday nights a
lot of times and give me suggestions and and that
type of stuff. Now, if you know, if I didn't
take those suggestions, he would inform me later if I
if I made a mistake. But uh, but you know
that's that's part of it. That's part of me growing
(16:30):
as a coach and having someone like that that I
could follow back on and and and have the things
that I needed, uh, you know to help me with
you know, when I when I was struggling back in
those days and and uh, you know, you still have
days that you struggle and you need a little bit
of uh uh you know, someone talking to you a
(16:52):
little bit about bringing back some of the old things
that that you used to do and uh and uh
that that worked and you know, remind you of the
things that you needed to do to help help kids,
and you know, that's what you're there for. And and
he was always good about doing that type of stuff.
And you know, he was always there for us, and
(17:12):
I really appreciate him and the things that he represented.
He represented the game of football the way, you know,
what it was meant to be, and I just, you know,
I think the world of him.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I appreciate it. Well.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Dan Haley changed my career, impacted my life, impacted my family.
I worked for him for two years in nineteen ninety
four ninety five, and obviously learned an awful lot about
the game, but probably learn more about the details the assignments,
(17:48):
the importance of teaching those assignments, and the importance of organization.
You know, if I don't spend two years with Dan Haley,
I'm not really sure where my career. I'm not sure
how long I would have really been of a high
school football coach. But I think that I was smart
enough to listen. I was smart enough to absorb. And
(18:10):
you know, my son Ryan, when he finished up playing
at Western, he was last year you know coach Haley
was was working with with coach Taggart. He had brought
him on as a volunteer and coaches just such a
deep thinker and a smart man, wonderful math teacher, and
just had an impact on a lot of people's lives
and obviously he changed my career.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, both of those guys were great. Uh of course John,
you know, David stad was was was a great coach,
and I liked being around him. I was around ing
a lot when he was you know, UH with Larry
and and you know, a scouting for him, and when
I was at Mercer with Larry and and then coach
(18:53):
Hailey I met when he was uh head coaching Cumberland
UH College and he came by one and I won't
share it now, but he gave me a he gave
me a piece of advice that really hit home and
it was really really good, and it was it was perfect,
it was exactly the way it was. And I'll share
that sometime on the show when we get to something
like that. But those are two great coaches that I
(19:16):
really had the privilege of being around and got to know.
My next question and my last question, I guess is, uh,
you know, when you guys look back, you know which
side of the ball has been the biggest key to winning.
And I know that the answer to this has always
(19:37):
been defense, But but what it has that changed over
the years, I mean, is it just I'm talking about
all the years you've been coaching, which you know, which
side of the ball has been the biggest key to winning.
Has it been offense, defense or specialty teams? And why
do you think that, Kevin, you want to go first
this time?
Speaker 5 (19:57):
I think the number one thing, Chuck is we all
have as high school coaches. You better adapt to your resources.
And I think back of the better teams I've had,
they haven't all been the same. I coached some really
really strong defensive teams that had kickers that could kick
the ball in the end zone. I'm going to force
you to start at the twenty. We're going to three
(20:17):
and at you. We're gonna start every series on the
plus side of the field. It's gonna be pretty easy
for us to score. And obviously that starts with defense,
but that if you have that kicker in high school
football that can put in the end zone, that might
be one of the most underrated weapons that there is.
And then obviously, I've been able to coach really special
(20:38):
offensive talents and guys who could throw the ball, catch ball,
run the ball, and that have played at really high levels.
And I think that if you have those type of
individuals you can force defenses to do things that they're
uncomfortable with. So I hate to go around the world,
so to speak here chuck about all three sides. But
(21:00):
I think if you don't have a good mixture of
all three of them, you're probably not gonna be the
elite team.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah yeah, all right, Well, I think you better be
good in all three phases because if you're not, you're
not gonna win. You know, they're gonna these the teams today,
they're gonna find some way to beat you. And you know,
you better be good defensively, you better be saund in
what you're trying to do, and you better not give
(21:26):
up any big plays on defense. And then offensively, you
got to be able to score. If you can't score,
then you're not gonna win any football games. So we
got to find a way to you know, to put
the ball in the end zone or at least get
a few points anyway. And then on the kicking game,
it better be saynd you know, in today's world, they
can change it over in a hurry. One play can
(21:47):
and you know they can return one for a score
on the kick call or the or the punt return,
or you can block up kick or you know, anything
like that, or you can miss an extra point and
it could cost you, you know, you know, a loss there.
So anything that you're doing football wise, you better be
saund in everything that you're doing. But you know, if
(22:08):
I had to pick one, it would probably be on
the defensive side of the ball. And we'd have to
be fundamentally sound in everything that we do, you know, defensively,
and you know, we've got to be able to you know,
tackle people and you got to find a way to
get them on the ground. And if you can't do that,
then you're not going to win very many games.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Yeah, it's a it was. It's a tough question because
today's football, I mean it's all about offense. I mean
you those games of back in the day when you
were winning them seven to nothing, fourteen to thirty, those
games don't exist anymore. I mean they're you know, they're
thirty five to twenty one. I mean they're thirty one
to twenty thirty five. I mean they're big, tashtcore games.
(22:51):
And if you don't have an offense that can put
some points on the board, you're not even going to
be in the game. And I think my experience has
been uh, and of course the kicking game help. You know,
at South Warren last year we lost a game on
that lost the last game the semi finals because of
specialty teams. But my my fault is that when you
(23:14):
get to the state camp game, I think that's when
you usually the best because both offenses had to be
good to get there. I think the team that plays
the best defense in the state championship game is usually
the team that wins.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
All right, Hey, so my last question for you guys, uh,
what is one piece of advice you would give to
any young coaches that are listing right now?
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Coach French, I'll let you go.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
First and better hiring a good bunch of assistant coaches
that are in the building with him and that will
be loyal to him, and that you better study a
lot of him.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
First thing I would say, David, don't I think this
will be surprising to you after spending a year with us,
is pick up the book above the line and read it.
Grow accustomed to studying a little bit of what Focused three,
which is a group that kind of herban Meyer talks
about an offline in that book, because what you're going
(24:20):
to be able to develop from the things that you're
gonna find in that book are not just plays, but
it's more about how to empower players, more about how
to empower everybody that's in your program. To take ownership
of your program, you've got to be willing to coach coaches,
coach players, coach managers, coach everybody you've got. You know,
you can't just hire somebody say okay, I'm gonnahire a
(24:42):
good guy and put them to work. I mean, everything
that you want to create in your culture is your
responsibility as a head coach, and it's not all going
to be about sitting down and being able to draw
up a great play. Your ability to develop leaders and
strengthen your culture and empower people is going to be
the most important thing that you can do as a
(25:03):
head coach.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Ord I argue with either one of you, Hey, cause I.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Got a podcast question for you here.
Speaker 6 (25:13):
Not on the list, but I'm hey if you First
of all, I'm not one hundred percent sure that I
buy that this is your last season.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
You know, I have to see it before I believe it.
Let me throw this question out here. Larry has three
hundred and sixty nine wins and he's number three, and
Kevin has three hundred and sixty one and he's number
four on the list. If this year turned out Larry
had a bunch of injuries and didn't have as many
wins as he was expecting, and Kevin had a great
(25:45):
year and had a whole lot more, and it ended
up at the end of the year maybe.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Tied or two or three separated.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Would we get another year out of you?
Speaker 5 (25:56):
The absolutely not. You need to speak to Dana Wallace
on that subject.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh boy, You know, I don't know what the Pudson
store for me down the road. But you know, as
far as leaving Middlesbrough that I probably will leave Middlesbrough
in December. And you know, if I get back into
the head coaching position again, my wife would probably.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
She might just shoot me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
So I probably probably won't do that. So I think
my head coaching career will be over with in December.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
It's always kind of ever known, and we probably both
feel like we've really never worked a day in our
life because we've embraced and enjoyed what we've done. There
is a great unknown for both of us when the
clock rolls around in twenty twenty six, because we have
to fill all that time, and we have to fill
it with something that that passionate about. And I don't
(27:01):
have any idea what that is yet, but I'm looking
forward to it when when the time comes. Right now,
I'm interested in getting Saint X. You ready to play football, yes, sir, Yes, sir?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Hey great, Yeah, that's been great.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, you've been You've been wonderful guests, and more importantly,
what you've meant to young men and people and communities
in this state an immeasurable positive impact on others.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Absolutely through the roof and uh, I appreciate your perspective
on this season, and as somebody that loves and appreciates
both of you, Uh, I hope you enjoy every single
second that you got this fall. I hope every moment
you can savor it and embrace it and enjoy it as.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Much as you can.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The distraction the idiots that we have to deal with
at times.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
I'm sorry for the word, but they're out there. Okay,
they are. There's no other word for.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Uh Hey, as much as you can put those folks
on the back burner and uh enjoy every second, You've
absolutely earned it, and uh, I think what we get
to do coach in high school football is incredible. As
you said, it's it's it's it's gain worth today a
job you know, it's really not. But man, I hope
(28:24):
you guys have an absolute blast and have so much
fun that you can't wipe the smile like your face
whenever you walk off the field the last time.
Speaker 5 (28:33):
Larry, good luck. Man. I hope you end up with
as many winds ahead of me as you have now
and both of us don't add to the losses.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Evin, I don't. I really don't care about the wins
and losses. I just want our kids to play the
way they're supposed to play and I'll be happy and
good luck to you guys of this season. Thanks man,
Thank you guys.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Awesome, thank you all so much, thank you all for
doing this.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you of the show. Which is the tough topic.
It is from Purple eighty eight on Bluegrass Preps and
it's if you know your opponent has a dangerous kick
returner or a punt returner, you know what's the best
approach to apply when you're kind of defending that team?
(29:24):
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, yeah, well kickoff is a little bit simpler because
it's a lot easier to not kick toing, So that
part's a little bit easier, whether it's a squib kick
or skykick.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Now I've lived this punt returner thing.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Our punt was awful at Mason County and we went
to that open punt. You remember us using it because
we played against each other, and this is to me,
this was the best.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Reinforcement that that's what we needed to do.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know, Highland's historically has been killer on punt return
They'd run that reverse, those deep backs. I mean incredible,
absolutely incredible. So I wish I could tell you we
won the game.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
We didn't.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
In two thousand and three, we're playing them in the
snow and we've got to punt the ball to them.
Holand stands there. They watch us punt it. They don't rush,
they don't do anything. They watch us punt it. We
punt it, and I think Dustin Grutzel might have been
my punter, or maybe it's Bryan Sweet, but Dustin was
the upback. Ty Sargent ran down and I think he
(30:33):
actually caught the punt. I mean, Hyland's doesn't even they
don't even an attempt to return it. They don't even
attempt to catch it. And so you know, we totally
neutralized one of the best things that Hyland's has done
forever by having our open punt and having the threat
of the fake. And I think I think the obvious
(30:55):
is that you don't kick to or punt to these guys.
But I think if you can somehow lip it and
you can make the other team defend you instead of
set up whatever they want to set up, I think
that I think you get.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
A lot of mileage out of that. I do.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't I'm not sure
I have a good answer, you know it. It has
to be a game plan decision really uh and uh,
there's a lot of factors to consider, you know, in
that game plan. You know, it makes it really hard
because you probably you're going to be wrong. You know,
(31:33):
if you've got a skill that can that could be
a game changer, you're probably going to be wrong with
your answer. But you know, for example, like you know,
if you kick it to him, then your gambling, Uh,
he's probably in high school football, he's probably better than
your kickoff or punt coverage personnel. And then he will
(31:55):
be in space, you know, making it very difficult for
you to get him down. Uh. And then if you
squib it to him, then you're giving their offense great
field position, you know, and and you know how good
is their offense. And if they have Cam Little on
their team, it's an automatic three points. The guy that
(32:16):
h Jacksonville Jaguars, they kicked that seventy yard field goal,
it's not automatic three points.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
Of course. The best solution is to you know, kick
it in the end zone. It solves all your problems.
Kevin talked about that while ago. It's a game changer
if you have a kicker that can put it in
the end zone. It really is. I've had a few,
but I've also had plenty that weren't that couldn't.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
So, and then on the punt, you know, you can
either fake it, you can go forward on fourth down,
or you can kick it out of bounds. But whatever
you do, just don't let him have it in space.
You know, I prefer to kick it out of bounds.
Bottom line is trying not the less specialty teams beat you.
(33:03):
You know, you got to make it. I think you
got to try to make it an offense and a
defensive game, because that's what you spend most of your
time on in practice in high school football is offensive defense.
I know, it's easy easy to say that because you know,
you know, if if, if, if their offense is any good,
then you you know, you put your putting your defense
(33:23):
in a buying Uh. Unfortunately, I have lost a few
games in my career. Uh you know with this situation,
you know, kicking it to a skilled guy. Uh. So
my answer, I guess my answer is I think a
game plan the situation, and I emphasize the word the situation.
You know, what do you have in personnel versus what
they have? You know, consider your coverage personnel, consider uh,
(33:48):
you know, your defense versus their offense, the field position,
and also the situation and the time of the game.
You know, uh is you know at the time of
the game, if you know, is it okay to swim
it to him? You know, what kind of a lead
do you have if you haven't? You know, all those
things have got to be considered. It's a game, you know,
it's it's just a game plan situation where you've got
(34:10):
to uh understand the situation of the game. And and
what you have versus what they have in personnel.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
That's the answer. Good. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
It's a good answer because it's a real answer, which
is it's not it's always not real cut and dry,
and like you said, it is a time that you'll
get to where well, you know, what we really need
to do is we need to be really good on
our fourth down offense because if we punt it, it's
not going to be good. And yeah, I like your answer.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
I do. That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, David, we go to the next part of the
UH uh you know, of the of the UH program,
and you know, just a couple of brief things to
talk about. You know, we've we've had a you know,
an idea or a challenge really of a you know,
(35:06):
Brian Webb of w BKO Bowling Green. He picked some
games and he wants to challenge us. And I think
we're going to get to that challenge maybe in the playoffs.
I think he was a one hundred and nineteen was
one hundred nineteen and twenty four last year, which is
pretty all gone good.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
But that's actually actually that's excellent.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
But I'll tell you what my man, David B. Pannon
has been seventeen and one in the state games over
the last three years. So hey, I'm gonna put David
against anybody, all right.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Well, hey, maybe maybe he wants to come after us
because by one loss was Bowling Green. That's my one
loss is Bowling Green beat Cooper, and I picked Cooper
to win up. But yeah, I think I think we
get to the state championship game. I think I think
there's a lot of potential there to maybe invite some
other media people and uh, you know, as we've talked about,
(36:04):
you know, they're there's sort of a foundational piece we always.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Want to have. We want to entertain and we want
to educate.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
But at the same time, though, I think our willingness
to you know, maybe take a little different.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Approach here and there, and uh, I think I think that.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
In November, Uh, there might be something absolutely we need
to look at.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
And I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, I bet you are.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
You're always there for us, well, but I'm I'm looking
forward to it till later.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
I can't pick anybody this.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Week, but by the by the time we get to
by the time we get to the end, you can
get a pretty good feel for who's doing what you
really can.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So we'll say that to the end, but we will
take on those challenges. But we'll wait to the end
and we might get some other media guys involved with
that as well. Yes, speaking of this this this opening
week here, man, there's some really big games coming up.
There's I went through the schedule will and some really
(37:02):
highlighted games. I think that opening the season that would
be worth going and watching. You got Bell County playing Campbellsville.
That ought to be a really really good game.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
You got Manuel playing Louisville Central. Wow, that's gonna be
a tough game. You've got Highland's playing Frederick Douglass and
I know Holland's is supposed to be pretty good this year.
Frederick Douglas is always good. Lexington Catholic and Ballard. What
about that game, David, that's gonna be a good South
Warren and Bryan Station. Another really good opening game with
(37:32):
two good, two good football teams owens berl and St. X.
That'll be a good football game. Owensborough's. You've got a
great running back in St xas Saint X. And you've
got Pipe and Cal both you know state championship. You
know caliber teams and Bullet East and Boyle County ought
to be a good football game too. So uh, I agree,
(37:55):
Opening opening game. Opening week has got some highlighted, big
time games.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, I'm I'm a little more.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
One of the games I'm sort of interested in is Ponner,
who just lost their head coach, David Trosper, who's actually
a family member of Stephanie's.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Uh. Of course, my youngest son's trosh for David Utannan.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Uh. But you know they lost their coach, David Trosper,
wonderful man, wonderful friend. Well, Noel Rash has taken over
the great Beechwood coach and they're going to play a
very good Madison Central team that we're actually is our
last scrimmage is Madison Central and William Blair is the
head coach there. And I think that's gonna be an
(38:38):
interesting matchup. And uh, I look for both those two.
I look for both those that have pretty good football teams.
I really do.
Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
And you brought up David Prosper, and uh, you know
it's unfortunate, you know, uh the Kentucky high school football
lost lost him. Uh uh this this summer, and you
know what we just had some I don't know, we've
had some coaches pass away, and uh, you know which
you know, prayers to him and his family, and we
(39:07):
wish nothing best but for Connor High School. And and
and I also lost a very close friend, David I
lost just recently, I lost Chris Purdue. And Chris was
my right hand man. He was the offensive coordinator for
Boyle County for all the years I guess that I
was there, and you know, I think we worked together,
(39:29):
you know, twenty something years and known each other for
you know, thirty something years, and you know, he's uh,
he was, he was. He was just a great person
and a great football coach and a very very good friend.
Him and I, his family and my family vacation together,
and uh, we were just good friends. And I'll tell
you I'm just going to miss you know, I'm having
(39:52):
really a hard trouble, hard time believing that it's that
he's even gone. He's gone at an early age, and uh,
I justruggle with that. I mean, I just I just
think that, you know, he's going to be there when
I call next time, and and and the fact of
the matter is he's not. And it's it's really. Uh,
(40:13):
it's really disappointing that al I don't know if disappointing
is the word. It's really sad that that you know
that that he he left us in an early age.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
It is and Uh an elite football coach.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
UH an elite football coach, and man as well, UH
an incredible offensive mind.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
I hope it's.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Okay I share this story I used to tell on
Chris Uh. Chris was an incredible offensive coordinator, incredible sometimes
he sort of had some bumps in the road when
he was the head coach.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I used to tell you this.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I said, you know, when you and I have been
in the coach's office, which are our assistant coaches, and
we'd be talking about the things we're dealing with, our
assistant coaches get all wound up and they'd say, for example, well,
if I were the head coach, I tell the bosses
they can kiss my tail. And you know, you and
I are sort of sitting over there saying, I'm not
(41:11):
gonna do that, guys, but they all they're all gung
ho and they are ready to go.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
And here's the difference. This is when Chris and I
did a lot of ways. I respect him for this.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
When Chris became a head coach, he still told the
bosses what he thought. He did not back off or
change because he was the head coach. He was still
Chris Pardue and sometimes I think that might have made
it a little tougher for him, but always respected that
about him.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
Chris was always Chris.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And the last thing I do want to say in
two thousand and five, he was our offensive coordinator for
that Kentucky Tennessee All Star Game and I tell you
one of Hey, we kicked Tennessee's tail. I mean, Chris
did a great job. Forty one point. Brandon Smith, Curtis
Pulley are quarterbacks.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
I mean, I think it's.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
The most talent ever on one high school team in Kentucky.
Brandon Dietrich, Earl Haymon, Jordan Nevills, Mike Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
I mean, it's phenomenal the talent that was on that team.
But I still think about this.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
We got a time out and it's me and Chris
and Brandon, and I'm like, there's like a minute and
a half to play, and I'm like, guys, let's get
this game over with and go home. Brandon says, I
want to score again. So Brandon goes back out there,
he Fate's taking a knee and the next thing I know,
(42:39):
we have a bitch clearing brawl in the two thousand
and five Kentucky Tennessee game. But hey, we did kick
their tills. In fact, we kicked their tails to bad
they got to where they didn't want to play.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
That game anymore. We were doing good.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But that was, I tell you what, you talk about
a special moment for me to be a time out
with Brandon Smith and Chris Pardue representing the state of Kentucky. Man,
that was a great moment. That was a great moment,
and uh, you know what, I knew it at the time.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
At the time, I knew, I knew what was going on,
And uh that's those will always be the things sort
of stick out for me with Chris and uh, just
a wonderful friend and absolutely incredible offensive mind as well.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah, what about this, David, what about Chris is going
maybe uh, Philip he Wood is going to hire Chris
as his offense and maybe David prosper as the defensive coordinator.
What a staff that he's going to have up there.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, I just I know, but I want to be sting.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I want to be sitting in the staff meeting when
coach Haywood says we're going to run the belly and Chris,
Chris is wanting to spread out the field, and uh,
you know, do something different. But yeah, I just you
know the way you put it like that, Well we have, man,
you talk about some wonderful men and coaches that we've lost,
(44:09):
and you know, then I start thinking about Jim Mattney
and Tys Kroggins, and well, I tell you what a
how blessed, how thankful that our patht has crossed with theirs.
And you know the thing about those guys, and I
know we all want to win. I mean that goes
(44:29):
with it, and we're all competitive people. I mean, you
can't separate that piece of it. But I think the
biggest impact in the longest legacy is really the impact
those guys have on other people, especially their players, and
those life lessons and I think it's the way you
approach your work and the way you approach your life,
(44:51):
and it's a mindset and the way you go about
your day. I think there's a lot of guys walking
around just like branded shared and Chris the service about
you know how Chris. You know, Chris's approach has impacted
the type of young man Brandon Smith is And I'm
just man, I tell you what I'm I'm.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
Thankful for those guys.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I miss him, and uh, I think the rest of
us has got to we got to fill the void
and step in that place and be those kind of
people that those men were.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
David, you said it very well, and I know that
I know I'm gonna miss him too. So anyway, I
appreciate all the kind of words and appreciate the listeners
tuning in tonight. Anything on our next uh that you
have for our next episode.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Well, uh, I know one thing that I think our
listeners are gonna be really interested in is uh. I
know that there is a lot of talk on the
internet about should Kentucky High school football beat pursued doing
seven on seven in June and a lot of people
(46:04):
questioning why that decision was made, Why did football coaches
give up seven on.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
Seven in June?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
And all those types of things. So I think that, uh,
I think our listeners will enjoy that because I think
we're we're gonna talk about that, and but I think
it's what's gonna make it good. It's not just gonna
be that we're gonna talk about, you know, should you
have seven on seven in June? But I think it'll
(46:32):
be good to talk about, Uh, you know, this is
this is why, this is why those coaches went along
with that, and uh, you know, I'll enjoy sharing sort
of how I remember it and you know, sort of
how I thought it went down, and uh, it was
a really fascinating time. But I think I think our
(46:55):
listeners are gonna enjoy that conversation.
Speaker 4 (46:57):
And uh, you know, and here's the other thing too.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
You love to teach me about being on the fence,
and that's fine.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
I'm good with that.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
But I also think this though, I think a sign
of intelligence is that we change our mind.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
And my mind has changed.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Over the years on did we really do it exactly
the right way? Was that really the best way? And
I sort of go back and forth on it sometimes,
and I'd love to tell everybody that, hey, I always
know one hundred percent this is what I should have done,
and I never changed my mind, but that would not
be the truth.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
And I do want to share this though.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Our episode two guests will be the new head coach
at Meath County. Blake powers, and I think Blake is
going to be super and I'm excited about it too,
because Blake and I played for Larry French in high school.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
I mean, we're always going to be running into guys.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Hey, my son in law played for Larry French in
high school and he played for you, and that's part
of what makes all.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
This so cool.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
And you know, I'm really thankful that we get to
do this and looking forward to a great season four.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
It's gonna be awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
You got me fired up for season for episode two already.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Yeah, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
We'll have to we'll have to compare Larry French stories.
But I got a feeling that probably Coach French approached
Blake a little differently than I did because there might
be a slight chance that Blake was a better athlete
than I was. Just a slight chance. But we'll still
have fun with that. And hey, I can't believe I
got through the episode with Coach French tonight and he
(48:33):
never brought up that I was the slowest quarterback he
ever coached. I mean, that always just thrown in somewhere,
and he must have felt sorry.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
For me tonight because he didn't hit me with that tonight.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I almost Hey, when he's nice to me, that's when
I start worrying about his health.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Yeah. And he didn't ask you to get the combes either,
remember that.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
No, No, I know, Hey, I didn't go down this
road when we were introducing him. But when Coach French
entered viewed with my dad came to the house spring
in nineteen seventy four, Okay, I had even turned Uh,
I need to try. I was eight years old, all right.
In Coach French's mind, I've been eight years old the
(49:14):
last fifty one years.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
That's just how he sees me. And he's never, oh,
I love this.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Hey what he's talking about my dad helping him and
bringing him stuff. I think I've told you this. I'd
had my scouting reports all drawn up. I'd have it
color coded down, distance, hash and tendencies and four bases.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
And all this.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Coach Fries take myselff. He folded up, going off to
the side, Hey, where's your dad's notes? He didn't even
want to see what.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I had to do.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
And he's like, David couldn't know what he think that's
David said, what's your dad, what's your dad got so
But that's all good.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
That's all good. That makes it fun.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
And I love Coach and boy, I tell you what,
I appreciate him more every day.
Speaker 4 (49:55):
Every day I appreciate him more. I really do.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Yeahy, And listeners, don't forget to tuned in with Mac's
historical segment. It comes on to as soon as we
finished talking. It's one of the highlights of the program
and highlights of the show. He's always spot on. It's
really interesting. So tune into that and we'll catch you
next time.
Speaker 7 (50:15):
Long ago towns and cities across Kentucky had areas with catchy,
interesting names, places like shake Rag, Jonesville, the Crawl, the
Big Bottoms, the West Side, and more. Some were simply
called the wrong side of the tracks. These areas were
(50:37):
thriving little cities within a city, bustling enclaves with shops, stores,
lodge halls, movie theaters, bars, restaurants, and schools. These unique
areas were primarily made up of African American residents, and
the schools were black only schools. The late nineteenth century
(51:01):
and early twentieth century had seen African American schools pop
up across Kentucky from Hickman Riverview on the banks of
the Mighty Mississippi to Pikeville's Perry Kline School in the
Eastern Kentucky Mountains. From Morganfield Dunbar in the western Kentucky
Colfields to Middlesbrough Lincoln in the heart of the Eastern
(51:23):
Kentucky coal mines. This is forgotten Heroes. I'm your host,
mack Yoakam, and I want to tell you a story.
In the early nineteen thirties, the leaders of the state's
black schools got together to form the Kentucky High School
Athletic League, the Black equivalent to the Kentucky High School
(51:47):
Athletic Association. Their purpose was to start hosting championships in basketball, football,
and track and field. By the end of the KHSAL
in nineteen fifty seven, as many as sixty nine schools
had been members. The principals divided the state into five regions.
(52:07):
The West of Highway forty one region went from the
Mississippi River to Madisonville. The East of Highway forty one
region had teams like Bowling Green, Owensboro, and Glasgow. The
Central region featured teams from Louisville down to Horse Cave,
the Mountain Eastern Region covered the area from Pikeville to
(52:31):
Hazzard to Harlan, and the Bluegrass Region that went from
Ashland to Lexington to Somerset to Frankfort. Over the next
several episodes, we're going to learn about these iconic schools, teams,
players and coaches, but for this one, we might as
well start with a history making event. The nineteen thirty
(52:55):
three KHSAL State Tournament had all of the powerhouse teams
Central Mayo, Underwood, Richmond, Madisonville, Lexington Dunbar. Because there were
only five regions, a formula was used that allowed more
than one team from a region to go to the
state tournament at Belgium on the campus of Kentucky State
(53:18):
College now Kentucky State University in Frankfort. Louisville Central represented
the Central Region, but they weren't the only Louisville team
in the field. Jackson Junior High School was also there.
That's right, a junior high school was playing for a
(53:39):
Kentucky State High School basketball championship. That never happened before
and it has never happened again. One can only guess
as to why Jackson Junior High was permitted into the
high School State Tournament. Jackson Junior High was built in
nineteen twenty nine at the corner of Jackson and Breckinridge
(54:01):
Street in Louisville. A photo in the digital collection at
the University of Louisville is labeled construction of new Colored
High School, and another digital image in the archive, this
one a construction invoice, says building materials for new Colored
High School. So maybe the plan was for a new
(54:25):
black high school in that area of Louisville and Jackson
Junior High was granted permission. We just don't know. No
newspaper accounts mentioned any extenuating circumstances, But whatever the reason,
Jackson Junior High School did indeed take the Belgim Court
as part of the tournament field in nineteen thirty three.
(54:48):
Jackson Junior High did have coaching star power, though the
team was coached by Mel Whidby. He'd been a star
athlete at Central a few years before he then starred
at Fisk Universe. His family was well known throughout Louisville.
His father, doctor Ellis Widby, founded Louisville's Red Cross Hospital
(55:08):
for African Americans, and his mother, Bertha, was the first
female African American policewoman in Louisville. Coach Whidby had the
Red Streaks ready to play in that state tournament. In
the first round, the Louisville lads squared off with Higgins
High from the coal mining town of Vico in Perry County.
(55:31):
The Streaks took that one, thirty eight to twenty six.
In round two, they faced another mountain team, Manchester B
from Clay County, and the Streaks won that one thirty
six to thirteen. Onto the quarterfinals and always tough Paris
Western Jackson Junior High kept their winning streak going, winning
(55:54):
twenty eight to eleven. In the semis, Jackson Junior High
faced off with John G. Fee from Maysville. Fee had
been state runners up the previous year and Coach Wedby's
youngsters put up a fight but fell twenty eight to
twenty seven. Fee would lose the state championship game to
(56:17):
Frankfurt's Mayo Underwood thirty to twenty five. When Coach Wedby
and Jackson Junior High got back to Louisville, they had
a huge pep rally at the school. People from all
over Louisville came to honor Jackson Junior High School. Now
there are no articles that tells of what happened to
(56:40):
those young men who carried Jackson Junior High to the
State high School semi finals. One can guess that some
of them moved on to Central High. As for coach Wedby,
he continued coaching, eventually coaching the Kentucky State University football
team for several years. In the early nineteen sixties. Jackson
(57:02):
Junior High had a transformation as well. It became the
award winning Misike Middle School in nineteen sixty six. Oh
and what happened to some of those communities we mentioned
in the beginning of the episode. Most fell victim to
urban renewal. Shakerag was mostly torn down to make room
(57:24):
for a huge medical complex in Bowling Green. Jonesville also
in Bowling Green was given to Western Kentucky University, and
the Hilltopper Athletic Complex sits where the Jonesville community once stood.
And the krawl in Frankfort was torn down to make
(57:45):
room for the sense demolished State Office building and the
Frankfort Civic Center. The story of Jackson Junior High, the
only non high school to ever play for a Kentucky
State high school. Title was inspired by the book Shadows
of the Past by former KHSAA commissioner the late Lewis Stout.
(58:11):
Join us next time, Unforgotten Heroes, when I'll have another
story to tell.
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