Barbara Blue, The Reigning Queen of Beale Street

From: https://barbarablue.com/biography/

Pittsburgh, PA native Barbara Blue doesn’t remember life without music. Her answer to the question “When did you start singing?” will always be “since the day I was born and my plan is to exit this life the same way”.  Early childhood years were spent singing in church choir, school choir, school band (flute), piano lessons, school plays and with radios throughout the house.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yah know that this isn't video andyou are oh, bless your heart.
This is the Coda Podcast, Pittsburgh'smusic scene and welcome in. I'm your

(00:20):
host Johnny hart Well along with AndyPugar. Today we talked to Barbara Blue,
the reigning Queen of Beale Street.No, it's live, it's all
live. It's I did a liveshow. I did. My live show
was fun because I did it outof William Mitchell's Royal Studios and we were
off the chain. I mean wewere swearing we had we would have the

(00:40):
rappers would come in and we wouldjust go crazy and whoever was in the
studio, tell boot bring him inhere. See Denise Lesau. I've had
Yeah, I've had so many peoplethat would just commit. Yeah. The
Brothers, what the hell's the nameMississippi All Stars. Wow, those guys,

(01:02):
I mean they're friends of mine,They've been on my records. But
you know when they com like,but bring them in here because people just
go, oh my god, arethey in there? I'm like, yeah,
they're always here, you know.So well, how for the radio
show, was it a daily show? A weekly show? What we did
a weekly show? It was PrestonShannon and I and Una Mitchell are on
a sister. Is that his cousinknows his sister. There's so many of

(01:23):
them don't know. She was likeour producer girl. When she'd get there.
We learned to work the equipment ourselves. So what was a focus was
a focus on Memphis. It wasMemphis music. I got to play anything
I wanted to. I have twelverecords. I play a lot of my
own records. Yeah, I doit all the time. I see I
love and I brought I was brandto bring you on too. I'm gonna
send you some, but I broughtone. If you want this one I

(01:45):
do, I do. This ismy brand, me meet me, give
me, give me because first ofall, I mean, you can download
it from direct. But there's twothings that I'm I'm just absolutely obsessed with.
Is Stax Music and Muscle Shoals ahistory behind those. I don't have
to give you my Memphis record.Then I did one of the one I

(02:05):
did out of Willie Mintl's was dedicatedto Willy and it was Memphis music.
And you know Stax and Willy HighRecords, the same people played both studios.
Oh yeah they did. And Ihad the high rhythm section. I've
had a band with Howard Grimes andFlick Hodges and yeah, like all the
Hodges books, I know, it'slike, but over there on this record,

(02:25):
which is it was? It wasin the top ten for over like
sixteen months. It was insane.It was in the top ten for like
seventeen weeks or number one for seventeenweeks. Just the record itself. I
think tell Mama stayed up there formonths. But so I make this in
muscle. It's a long story Bookay, we're going to get them. Were
started. We're recording because you canclip. Well we did this so you

(02:49):
can clip Barbara. Yeah, wellwhere we introduced that in the beginning.
It's a stranger in my studio andTony hartwell not Tony Hart meant. Look,
I want to take take us back. Grew up in Pittsburgh. I
was born and raised here. That'sright. Did you come from a music

(03:12):
family? Uh? My father usedto sing barbershop quartet with my uncle Dave
and a few other guys they'd findat the bar. And well, my
dad definitely wasn't blue, whether heknew it or not, No, but
I mean he we always had musiclike my dad listened to Eddie Arnold and
Ray Charles and Peggy Lee and whoelse. I mean the Beatles. I

(03:36):
mean I knew, I knew Meetthe Beatles. You know. The black
and White was white was called Let'sthe Original. The original name in England
was different Piladora, Pandora like itbegins with a P. Anyway, that
was the same label, but theynamed the record differently. Yeah. Then
they did was Meet the Beatles inAmerica and get Up And I can't because

(04:00):
on the Pandora or something. Ican't remember. Baby, No, just
kidding media girl, but you needone of those when you get old.
I just found Baby. We didsomething for the Robert Morris University a couple
of weeks ago, and what wasthat called with the Blue Society? With
the Blue Society with Johnny and itwas great. They're doing a series.

(04:20):
They did it. It was kindof like, yeah, but it was
the Blues people. But anyway,that's how I found Bailey, because you
need when you're old like me,you need one of these young kids.
It just zaps around, knows everything. I'm like, how are they?
Baily's a pr person that's sitting inthe corner right the media. You can
just say hello, she's my newmedia guru. I know she looks like

(04:41):
she's twelve, but she's not.She's a senior at Robert Morris University.
All right, So your dad daddid the barbershop quartet thing. So we
always had music in our house.And my dad was a carpenter and he
had a little workshop in the basement, and he took me with him and
we went with sit me there.We listened radio and he had sing along
and I'd just be there and hammeringmy little nail and my little you know,
piece of wood. And we alwayshad music like that. And what

(05:04):
did you listen to? Like?What was? We listened to everything?
Like, I don't remember. Backthen, it was you know, he'd
listen to country, he'd listen towhatever. You know, we'd listen Jimmy
Dorsey. I mean I listened toeverything back then. But when I was
old enough to get my little transistorradio, the little nine volt battery and
the headphones, I would lay underthe covers and listen to Whammo. Yeah,

(05:26):
I'm a I was a soul kid, you know. My but you
know, my dad grew up,went to Perry high school. It wasn't
it wasn't his bag, you know. And so but I learned, I
learned how to get around things,you know, at an early age.
So I got to listen to WAMOand things I loved and what songs?
What music do you remember listening to? Do you remember the first record you

(05:46):
bought? I have no idea thefirst record I bought myself. I had
so many in the beginning. Imean I had album covers nailed to my
bedroom walls. You know, posters. You know, I don't want to
say Donnie Osmond, but it couldhave been or the Partridge family or somebody
or the monkeys, who knows,you know, is you know, I

(06:08):
was young. But do you rememberwhen post Cereal used to have records on
the yes, the back of theCereal boxes. You know, that's a
vague memory that you say that,wow, that's crazy, and you would
cut it out and you put iton your little forty five? Was never?
It was never? Never? Butyeah, you know, but I

(06:32):
do remember seeing Janis when I wasvery young. I was probably ten years
old, and I would I wasglued to the TV. I mean,
I couldn't get away from it,you know, there was something that she
was doing that touched well. Youknow, I tell everybody now, I
said, you need to watch whatyour kids are watching. You think they're
just being entertained. Nah, youknow, it gets in your brain.
It's like something you just have toPeople just have to be careful. I

(06:55):
don't think they understand what they're youknow, yeah, you're over there.
I'll have to deal with that kid, you know, airsponge. But I
remember that very very vividly, likewatching her on Dick Cavit and when they
were did the clips from Woodstock.I wanted to go to Woodstock. I
was ten. The kids across thestreet were going to My mom goes absolutely
not like you know, like,yeah, I'll admit it out of smoking
weed. Since I was ten,I was like, I was hanging out

(07:17):
with those kids. They I guessthey thought it was funny, you know,
but I was, you know whatever, you just kind of go with
the flow. So she was yourintroduction to blues basically pretty much, well,
you know, Peggy Lee was BLUESIish and you know stuff like that.
I was, you know, Feverwas the I remember that that was
a big blue song. Yeah,Fever. You know, it's like and

(07:39):
Ray Charles. I mean anything he'ssaying, Eddie Arnold, same thing.
You don't know me. It's likestill one of my number one favorite songs
in the world. Reminds me ofmy dad, you know. But just
from listening to music with him,and my mother hummed the whole time.
It's it's funny. My mother leftthis world like three years ago and we
still communicate, thank you, andbut and the funny thing was, so

(08:01):
I went to a medium and shewas like, your mother is like a
funny She's a very funny person.It's very funny. And I said,
and she said, she's telling meto tell you your next tattoo is a
hummingbird to remind you of her.I have to shame my hummingbird tattoo and
I don't have one yet. AndI was like, have a bunch of
them. You just got me becomebest friends. We're tattoo mates now.

(08:24):
So you know, it was it'scrazy because my mother went home. She
never would really sing, but thenshe joined the choir at church and she
sang there for you know, eversince she moved to from our North Side
neighborhood to you know that I callit the soccer mom, neighborhood in Shaylor,
and so it was just interesting,you know. And uh, but

(08:46):
I would go, oh, shedoesn't quit. Yeah, every day I
hear I'm, you know, gotthat going on. So I'm like,
come on, oh yeah, andshe'll do it through my friends. Yeah,
one of my friends. I wastalking to her one day and she
looked at me and goes just likehoney dripping off her lips. And I
went, I said, that's funny. My mommy said, she's that's funny.
I've never said that before in mylife. And she was, you

(09:07):
know, but she was somebody withthat that I know her well, that
my mom could have just because shewould have no idea. Yeah, it
was very interesting. That's very nicefor you. I feel still connected to
her. I'm very Yeah. Somedays it's great. Some days I'm like,
take a break. But all right. So, so dad loved the

(09:30):
Barbershop Quartet and he listened to Mydad listened to music. My dad,
Yeah, what about you? Whendid you start saying church? I mean,
my mother's Hispanic Catholic. You know, I've been going to church since
I was born. Yeah, Iwas. I was. If you've ever
seen the sister act that was me. Yeah, I mean churching sister.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah yeah. I was on the front

(09:52):
row going me, me, universe. And I have a big voice.
If you can't tell that by allthis, but you need me to go
closer. Oh sorry, I wasjust bragging about my big voice closer and
mic pune. But yeah, soyou know, I've always had that big
voice, and I would just wantto be heard because I, you know,
wanted to sing. But singing churchwhen did when did the church school

(10:16):
plays? Anytime there was singing,I wanted to do it. I played
when we were you know, Iwent to Nativity of Our Lord in the
North Side. It was a gradeschool, you know, it was a
Catholic grust me and we had aband. You had fourth grade. We'll
be in the band. Great.I'm so excited. I was gonna play
drums. It's gonna be a drummer. Walked up. You're in a line,

(10:37):
wait and walk up. Sister's like, and Barbara, what do you
want I'm gonna play drums, sister. She looked at me and she went,
girls don't play dumps. What doyou want to play? I said,
sister, I want to play thedrums. Girls don't play drums.
You can play the flute or theclarinet, went what you know? I
thought I was going to principal's office. I said, no, sister,
I want to play the drums.She said, flute or clarinet. I
said flute. You know. Sofrom fourth grade until high school marching band,

(11:01):
I played the flute in the piccolo, believe it or not. And
so I missed my drummer's call.But I've had great drummers, probably had
every drummer in Pittsburgh. They hatedme. So you might be like,
you can't count the four, yougotta go, You can't listen to what
we're doing. You gotta go.If you're too loud, you gotta go.
So when did you develop your voice? Did you have any training?

(11:26):
Did you have any sing England?Well, I would I train myself.
I played guitar also, so Iwould sit out in the backyard, sit
in my bedroom. I mean,I'm nine, playing Smoke on Water and
House of the Rising Sun. Toyou know, my mother's throwing holy water
on my bedroom door. She's veryCatholic. But anyway, so I would
do that. And then when Iwent to college, I was in Michigan

(11:50):
and I was going to Madonna College. That's another long story, but I
did take start taking less of adoor with this s guy. I don't
I don't even remember his name,some professor, but and he would hit
the i'm't hypnotized. I'm like,I've never been hypnotized a sing before,
and I didn't think he could hypnotizeme. But one day I was done
with this session and I go inthe ladies room and I come out.
I go in there and my shirtappeared to be buttoned incorrectly. Oh,

(12:13):
and I was like, Okay,we're not going back to him because I
don't remember incorrectly but in my shirtto begin with. You know, it
was very weird. So I thoughtthat one. And then there was another
one when I lived in Detroit.I do believe it was Detroit. I
forget who he was too. Hewas some profound, you know, vocal

(12:35):
coach, and he was, butI think he wanted like opera singers or
people that would listen to him,and not people like me that wanted to
sing like that sang like you know, the Janis thing going to rock sing.
And I don't know what he expectedfrom but he had a book and
I read it and I would walkaround, you know, outside doing these
exercises and going yeah whatever, youknow, just but I really got my

(12:58):
voice. I just kept you know, but you really get your voice just
by listening to yourself, you know. I would record on a cassette tape,
sitting there with my guitar and listening, go what was that? Because
you think you're doing something different,You don't hear your voice as people hear
you unless you listen. So thattook a while for me to do.

(13:20):
Then I learned that, and thenI started working in the studio, you
know, with records and stuff.And once you do that, you know,
And I went from analog tape toyou know, pro tools. So
I mean, I'm not good atit, but I know how it works.
I can say that I know whatthey're doing, but I don't want
to do it, not yet.Anyway, We've interviewed a number of female
singers, and it seems like they'realways meeting some sort of gatekeepers, and

(13:48):
we it's it's you talked about youknow, somebody at your your school or
church whatever saying no, you're you'regoing to play the flute, And they
all have that that that drive togo, I'm going to succeed, so
I couldn't sing and I laughed,Oops, he must be deaf. I

(14:13):
mean, there's so many and somany of the gatekeepers are guys, and
and we've heard some just well fromwomen. I'll tell you all the gatekeepers
are guys, you know. Yeah, I mean there's always the word I
use as cock blockers, not gatekeepers. Yeah, they're everywhere. I was
trying to be nice, but yeah, yeah, that's just I'm not I'm
not nothing. I'm just truthful.I mean, I'm just kind of but

(14:35):
they say blatantly honest. There thereare no I have one filter right here,
and it's on your microphone I'm tryingto use. I need to be
filtered. You do not. Youhave my permission to do whatever you want
whatever. I'm not a cock blocker. You do whatever, but I am.
I am curious about because I hearit time and time again. Yeah,

(14:58):
we have heard. You're right,and it's so old. I could
use the famous person to his name. And I guess, as you would
say back in the day, ifI would have laid on the casting couch,
we probably wouldn't be talking today.But That was never my bag because
I always felt my integrity and Iknew where I came from. And I'm
a kid of the sixties and seventies. Girls from that era were different where

(15:22):
that we're still fighting for our rights. You know, we're still pissed off
about Wade and Road because no man'sgoing to tell me what to do with
my body. And they're trying.You know, I don't want to go
political what I'm saying. Y'all needto listen to what these people are saying,
because they're trying to take us backto the freaking twenties. It's like,
are you kidding me? But youknow, a little unnerving for women.

(15:46):
But back in the day, wefought for that. You know,
we're a bra Have you lost yourmind? You know? I mean,
it was just different, and wefought for that to be, not to
be. My mother would tell me, you have beautiful handwriting, you should
be a secretary. I said,I'm not making coffee for anybody. Mom,
that ain't the way this is goingdown, you know, And she'd
be like, because I think shealways worried that I was just a little

(16:08):
wilder than I think. She alwayswanted the independence that I had, but
she thought maybe I was too muchmore than she wished for. But well
you developed, you developed backbone doingall that fighting. Well, I was
the only girl. I had fourbrothers for a long time, you know
my head. My parents first childwas a girl, and at eighteen months

(16:30):
she passed away and I wasn't bornyet. So when I was born,
my dad was like, I mean, I was lock stock barrel. I
was glued to him, you know, and it was very interesting because it
made me stronger. And back thenyou watched all that. I mean,
people fought for their right to vote, for their right to be you know,
single mothers, because back then itwas not acceptable to be a single

(16:55):
mother. You were you were lookedat like there was something wrong with you,
you know, you couldn't keep aman or whatever, or however they
wanted to look at it. Yeah, it was a social Yeah, it
was very different, very different,very different. You know, today you
know, you just have to survive, you know, back then they were
fighting to survive. I think there'sa big difference. Yeah. You know,

(17:17):
the gatekeepers are cock blockers, asyou say, usually one because they
were they had the power, theyhad a network, They stuck together it
was, you know, but that'swhat they did. They knew what they
were doing. Then they knew whatthey're doing. Now, you know,
it's a what was the method,methodology, or what we want to call
it. What was the worst circumstancethat you found yourself in when where which

(17:41):
which we mean making a bad decisionand going what the hell I got lived
on? Or when it comes toyou know, the gatekeepers, you know,
trying to keep you down and probablymy mouth, oh you know,
I was I was looking for aguy who tried to, you know,
keep you down. But but itis. But but now that we got

(18:02):
the subject of your mouth, yeah, it's farm in my mountain because that
was because so so you know,so a woman has an opinion, opinion?
Go ahead, well when when awoman has an opinion? And back
you know in the sixties and seventies, you know that that was not something

(18:25):
that women did or were supposed toanything they wanted to hear, you know,
even the eighties and the nineties,they had to tell you this wasn't
just then, it's it was it'scontinuous. It's you know, you got
to play the game, and I'mjust not good at it. I was
I always you know, I wasjust in Chicago a couple of weeks ago
with the women of the Blues there, who were just I love them all.
And so one of my friends thereand I were talking and you know,

(18:48):
we just came out and said,what the hell. You know,
we thought if we did our bestjob, you know, somebody would a
scout would come and find us,and you know sign and that's not It
was nothing like that, you know. And I mean I always say,
you know, I listen to everybody, and you know, not everybody's great,
not everybody's a ten or you knowso and you go, okay,

(19:12):
but I have studio ears and I'mprobably a little more than most, but
I say, we need you know, it takes a bunch of Gerbils to
make the wheel spin around, youknow. So it's just what it is.
You either have talent, or youhave a circus act, or you
have a stick whatever you want tocall it. You know, if you're

(19:33):
entertaining people, My deal is,I just want to make you feel good.
I know, people don't come tothe bar or come out because you
know, they're all put together inside. I need to find one yet,
you know what I mean. Soif you can emotionally help somebody feel something,
you've done something. As a musician, that's my job is to help
you feel something, not just me. I feel something every day. I

(19:56):
love what I do. I'm verygood at It took me a lotle time.
I mean, yeah, I wasan asshole at for sure. I
mean because I knew I had thispower, I didn't know what to do
with it, you know, ButI learned and I went to I went
to a lot of mediums, alot of second They were like, oh,
you know that ar you like youknow, and they're like, you
walk, I said, you walkin a room and you have this energy.
I said, well, I justwant to, you know. And

(20:18):
I've had people teach me how touse it, how to collect what people
are giving in the crowd and giveit back to them. It's a positive
energy recirculation, and it's it worksthat way. Like if you just throw
it out there and don't direct,it just goes to the cosmos and whatever,
it doesn't work. But it's there'senergy. But so once you learn

(20:41):
to use it in the proper manner, it's it's it's very when you walk
into a room when you're performing,do you when you can be the bathroom.
I'm sorry. You just look atme like, oh, do you
consciously try to collect those vibes whenyou before you start to form or is
that just something you know? Now? It's natural, Like I feel the

(21:03):
room when I walk in. Ilook around, I see who's there from
people I know. Usually they allshow up, you know, and we
I mean, we start cooking.You know, it's like cooking the room.
You feel it out, you seewhat's going on, see who's there,
because you know, I believe I'myou know, done it a long
long time now. The lunar phase, you know, everything revolves around the
moon and you just have to workwith it. You know, you never

(21:26):
know what you're going to get.I never know. Yeah, So every
every night is different. I tellthem. I never sing the same song
the same way twice. Every night'sdifferent. So you played in the high
school band, yes, But whendid you join your first actual band?
Oh? My band? Oh jeez, did you do anything in high school?

(21:48):
I'm trying to remember high school band? Band? Band? No.
I think I was just playing,like in the yard with my guitar.
You know that I'm still developing thatkind of thing and doing that first band.
Yeah, where did you first perform? Well, I can't remember,
to be honest with you that,but you did leave the sixties and yeah,

(22:17):
time right, Well, we hada band in the North Side I
should call Bighead and then because itwas a big Head band and we would
play up at the Legion in springHill. And I mean, but I
did, believe it or not.I sang jazz before I sang anything,
did you? Yes? I sangaround town? I sang jazz did the
what was that called the beautiful placein Oakland used to play? Oh the

(22:38):
hotel web? No? No,the what the hell was the name of
Oakland Shady Side? Sorry? Oh? Oh the balcony, the balcony.
I loved going there, like,uh, I remember doing that before doing
any doing any other stuff. Itwas yeah, you know it was the

(22:59):
bud Way and Kenny Blake and uhyou know now it's coming back. Keep
talking, Barbara, Okay. GeeneLudwig, who I love Gene. He
taught me so much. Jane taughtme a lot. Gene was amazing.
And then there was a guy andI think I took vocal lessons from him
too, But he was really coolin a music store and al Equippa out

(23:22):
that way. His name was Val, but he had eyes like a goat,
he had those. But he wasreal sweet and he was smart.
And so Val did this thing andI took vocal lessons from him. Boy,
I remembering stuff I couldn't remember.And you know the Lamont I've sung
there for a long time and Ican't remember this. Oh, Spider Rondinelli

(23:44):
and I down, that's down inbrother Olives. Here we go. This
is why I can't remember. Sowe do Spider Rondinellie and then I played
in Southside. It through JJ's whichwas yeah, she owned it first,
and then it was uh hmm,Cafe Lasavita. In between that, I
think I was on the least paparazzi. JJ she had it. What was

(24:07):
her name, Joyce Joyce, Yeah, Choyce, So Joyce had it.
Then it was Cafe Lasavita, andthen it turned into paparazzi. Yeah,
I made it, I said,miss I just went with the building.
I guess, I don't know.I had a Sunday there for I don't
know, nine years nine, tenyears ago, and it was it was
jazz. Oh. No, itwould start off being jazzy, and then

(24:27):
I went had my band and thenwent to blues hard, you know,
did all those blues challenge things andput things together because you know, I
knew the jazz got John Hall playedbass for one of my blues bands.
You know a lot of different Iplayed the Crawford Grill. Buzzy hired me
for one night because his girl,I can't remember name, they had a

(24:48):
fight and he fired her and hecame and got me. I think I
out of paparazzi. And I mean, you know, I walked in there,
and I mean I hear all thewhisper and I'm like, wandow how
to get myself into Mike Taylor wasplaying bass. He played with Ammel Jamar
and I can't remember the guy's nameon the piano, but I wish the
guy that could because he was veryfamous. To one of the most magical

(25:10):
jazz music nights I've ever had.It was beautiful. Yeah, I mean
to sing at the Crawford Girl,Yeah yeah, I mean that place is
history. Yeah, and not many. I don't think there's many other girls
that you know, want to saythey've done what I don't want to say
what I've done but you know whatI mean that have that on their resume.
One night at I'd love to havea place like that. And then

(25:34):
but then there was Brother Olives.So brought up Brother Olives. Johnny Johnny
the green Door, Johnny Adams.We started it to a We started.
Yeah, it was the coolest gangsterjoint in town. But we had a
ball there. You know, itwas fun. We live at Sunrise right

(25:56):
behind it had a green door,that's all Johnny Adam's green door. Knock
on the door. Yeah, okay, I remember the name of that place.
I just yeah, that happened.That was when we played. I
mean, Dominant's blood pit was justa blood pit. But we've had so
much fun. I mean, I'msurprised my brain still works, to be
honest with you. But and Idid I think I graduate from high school

(26:21):
and I ran like to Arizona fora year or two or three, then
came back on and off, andthen came back here and did all this
other stuff. Again, what didyou do when you came back? And
did you did you form a band? Did you? Yeah? There was
all these things with the brother allof and all that stuff that happened through
that. I think it was somethingapproximately what time span are we talking.

(26:42):
Is this this the late seventies earlyeighties? Well, I would say,
okay, probably early eighties, becauseI went to I left and I graduated
seventy seven. I went straight toArizona. My friend had moved them.
Going to Arizona, take my guitarand go. I just opened the case
and go playing these biker bars.I couldn't do it. Now saved my
life. You know. I canplay maybe five songs on a guitar very

(27:03):
badly, you know, because Iplayed with some of the greatest guitar players
in the world. So once youdo that, you go, yeah,
we'll do that. I got threechords, babe, I got three chords.
What do you want? What keydo you want? Those three chords?
And I only got one key.I'm a good you know. But
it was cool, you know,and I don't know what happened. I
did so much stuff and had aband hair great things festals. I mean,

(27:23):
we did the one in Cannonsburg oneyear for Darryl had that one bar.
I can't remember the name, butnow Darryl pardoned me. You're talking
about the Rhythm House that that wasin Bridgeville. Yeah, but that's not
what this was called. It wasin in Cannonsburg proper, because he had
oh he's coming. Maybe it wasn'treally, I don't know. But he

(27:45):
had a big festival when you wereJeff Healy, and we played before him,
and the bar was down the street. We had to do the bar
down the street after that, sowe go down. That's when Jeffrey Ford
Thurston was in my band too,and I just brought him back. We
just a little bit a couple ofmonths ago, I think it was January.
We had a ball, I meanthirty years ago. He was in
my band, my first record,you know. So we go out through

(28:07):
this thing and it was wild.It was fun, you know, because
he's learned a lot. I've learneda lot. You know. We make
a joke. I fired him soHot Shot twenties couldn't be on time,
you know, and I'm like,well you're fired. I said bye bye,
you know, and he was goodn'tBut you know, twenty years later
he thanked me. He said,I wouldn't be the guitar player m today
if you wouldn't have fired me.And I'm like, cool, didn't mean

(28:29):
to you just pissed me off withit, you know, but it was
cool to hear, you know,more friends, and it was great.
You know, it's good. Soanyway, timelines are very bad. But
I do remember in nineteen ninety seven, I kind of gave it all up
here. Played at Jeans, Imean every Thursday for one hundred years,
and we played up on West LibertyAvenue at the Apple Inn for a very

(28:49):
long time, same day every month. I mean, I had certain places
I played every month, every week, same day, you know. Greensburg,
where I'm actually living now, wascalled the Baggy Knee. We would
play there once a month, youknow, once a month, same gig,
you know, and now look whatis it thirty years later making the
same money playing one gig here?You know. But that was a COVID

(29:12):
thing. I came back here becausethe COVID My mom was eighty nine.
She was here and I was like, well, I got MoMA could be
done to the world. I reallydon't know. We have no work,
and I had a nice piece ofproperty, and I said, I'm just
to sell everything while everything's so hotand come home and hang out with you.
She's like, come on, soand six months later, my mom

(29:32):
had a stroke and left this world. So I'm glad you came back.
There's not a day I regret.You know. I was bitching at first,
but once I lost, and Iwas like, you know what,
you couldn't There's not enough money topay for those six months. But something
in my head was telling me yougotta get home, you gotta get him.
Like come on, I said,Jesus, really a pandemic? Really
is that what I needed? Iwas like, this is crazy, you
know, but it worked. Soyou played in around Pittsburgh and Greensburg.

(29:56):
And then what made you leave?You want to Well, no, actually
I didn't mean to leave. Myfriend of mine. We went to jazz
Fest. I would go jesfice everyyear. Probably went to JazzFest for twenty
five years. Every year, wouldmiss it. I love New Orleans.
I love the whole scene. Itwas a blast. It was insane.
If I had have moved there,I'd be dead. We wouldn't be talking
right now. So we go downthere and this is funny, this is

(30:21):
like, this brings the circle.So we go down there. My friend,
she's from Greensburg. We go tojazz Fest. We're there all week
and she loved Tracy Nelson. Well, I never heard of Tracy Nelson.
I'm here in this buzz and I'mlike, Tracy Nelson sang like Janie.
Really, I said, I've neverheard of her. This is insane.
So she was in the lineup forMemphis in May, and so I said,

(30:44):
get in the car, we'll leaveit. So we drove from New
Orleans to Memphis, and we wentto the Sunday you know day in Memphis
in May, and Tracy Nelson wassinging. I was like, interesting,
but I took her to see TracyNelson. Well, she got sick that
night. I'd been to Memphis,you times. I knew if I went
to Soki's and paid they're dueling pianoplayers five bucks, I could sing.
So I said, hey, I'mgoing to sok Sorry you're sick. If

(31:07):
you need me, you know,I don't even think we had cell phones
then, yeah, who knows.I can't even remember, you know,
like we use them now. Wedidn't have that, That's right, I
said, But I'll be back,you know. So I go to Soilkie's
And I never did this during Memphisin May though, I only did it
like when we were there I'm notwhis Memphis in May? Is that?
Is that a big, big festivalwe have the first week in May?
Like when I was first, therewould probably be you know, fifty thousand

(31:30):
people, ninety thousand people. Atthe time I left, it was two
hundred and fifty before the pandemic.Big people, big, big, big
names. It was great, bigfestival. So a lot of people were
downtown, a lot of people.You know, it's just buzz it buzzing
Beal Street buzzes. You know.I am the reigning Queen of Bill Street.
Still, Oh, I've got question. I haven't given up. I
haven't given up the crown yet,but you know, I think about it

(31:52):
going. I'm going back in Mayfor two weeks and it'll be we got
you gotta you gotta, you know, flaunt the fl But I love working
there, all right. So Memphisand May. And so I go to
Memphis May. I sing It's Silky'sto pay the Guy's five bucks. I
sing a Jana song and the peopleare standing on. What did you sing?
Do you remember? Yeah that Iremember Bobby and Gay I'll never forget

(32:13):
that. So singing Bobby McGee andthey're like standing on, they go ballistically
wild, and I'm like, oh, that was fun, you know.
And I get done. Solka goes, can you do that again? I
said, well maybe, and hegoes, I said, buy me a
beer. Okay, so he getsme, you know, and I do
it again, and he was justlike amazed. We called him the Barnum
and Bailey of Beale Street. Youknow. He was just sit out front
and he'd watched all the girls andhe would cause the circus all the time.

(32:36):
And he looked at me and hehad this crazy look in his eye
and he goes, can you dothat again? Can you wait? I'm
gonna call my wife. And Isaid, okay, another beer, please
get something of it, so,you know, and his wife comes down.
They offered me a job that night, and I said they and then
like I said, okay, I'llbe back, and I looked and it

(32:58):
was I said, I came back. I think it was. I don't
even know when, maybe two weeksbefore. June seventh was my first day
on Bill Street, nineteen ninety seven, and I was there for twenty five
years, five nights a week.It was wild because it was it was
the perfect platform. I could moldit. I molded myself working there.
Look, here comes to my southerntwang. Now so so crazy. But

(33:22):
and people probably don't know or ora lot of people don't know that in
my opinion, the Rock and RollHall of Fame should be in Memphis.
That's Nashville, is the not themistake by the Lake? Yeah, well
well I'm just saying that Memphis.You know that was just a Pittsburgh japp.
Sorry you have argians guys. Uh, Elvis obviously, but but there's

(33:45):
so much like the It was thecenter of music for years. Yes,
everybody came there, like you knowfrom most it has. Everything was locking,
everything, everything was boom right inthe well. You just can't give
them everything. Had to spread itout. Why did they put it in
the in Cleveland anyway? There isa reason, simply because you didn't know

(34:08):
the first the term rock and rollactually started with a disc jockey named Alan
Freed who worked he was in Cleveland. He actually h his first job was
in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, so soyou could make the argument Castle. Yeah.
Yeah, he worked for a radiostation Dog called w KST, and
it was his first radio station.I don't know if he used the term

(34:28):
rock and roll back then, butyou know, I don't think anybody's going
to put the rock and roll homeNewcastle though. It's too too close to
the homish towns anyway, to getback to Memphis, because I just wanted
to for people who who Okay,so they're offered me a job that night,
so I take it. So,like I said, twenty five years,
which is a big deal, especialtown like music. Piano player was

(34:51):
from Newcastle. No, he wasfrom up in a little village north of
Butler. And it's Newcastle up there, isn't it. Yeah, Yeah,
it's funny say that because he's fromI don't know, some village that was
from up near there somewhere anyway.So he same guy worked with me for
twenty five year net Kerry for twentyfive years, playing piano five nights a
week. We had one fight,one big fight. Other than that we

(35:14):
would just just shut up that.No, I'm just kidding, but you
know, but we would play.We were like they would call me a
human jukebox is all we had do. Listen to the song on my phone
and Nat would do the same thing. He was very smart, very he
could he could replicate a song becauseyou know, there's only so many chords
in life, and most songs don'thave more than four of them in there.

(35:34):
But anyway, and we would dothese songs like I've never heard them
before, and I'd listen, I'dsing him go, how was that going
to go better than the original?It's like, yes, you know so,
because we would just throw it togetherand have fun. But I did
that for money. I called itprofessional musical prostitution. It wasn't my thing,
you know, my music, butI had a platform to play my
songs, which most people don't have, you know now, I mean now

(35:59):
it's this, Yeah, you havefive How many followers do you have?
I'm like, really, I said, I have them all over the world.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm standing in a in an
alley in Venice and a woman isscreaming at me Barbara Blue, Barbara Blue,
and I'm like, what the hell? You know? And I sent
my friend into a little art storethat was Andy Warhol because he loved the

(36:20):
end. He goes look at thisand I go, hey, yeah,
it's me. And I'm thinking thisis weird. And she's like, I'm
from Australia, you know. Idid five tours in Australia and just little
ones my friend threw together. Itwas crazy. She goes, we rode
the boat over from Venice to seeyou in Novagrade last night in Croatia because
it's a two hour boat ride.She goes, you were me. I
was like, you played Croatia.Yes, three times, three summers in

(36:45):
a row. This will be thefirst summer. I didn't go, but
I might go in August because Ilove it there. Well, I would
buy a house there. Really.Oh yeah, that's what I've heard.
I would buy a house there.So you're in Memphis, you're working,
You've you've got Let me go fullcircle with Chracy Nelson first, just because

(37:05):
I have to. So this yearI'm up for a Grammy nomination Traditional Blues,
right me? Did somebody just droppedit? And let me hold on,
hold on, Barbara, hold on. Let me ask Kenny, have
you ever been nominated for a Grammywar? No? You know, Let
me hold on. Let me letme check my sound. Like my friend
we were laying, we were sharingwith rub in Memphis and my phone.

(37:29):
Resent'm like, hey, what's up? Man? She's like, I'm talking.
She goes who's out Are you talkingto Maha? She goes I said
yeah, she goes, what Andthen the next day she's like, Tonal,
friends, can you believe this?I'm like, I don't think anything
of it. We're friends, youknow whatever, Just I don't know.
So anyway, so anyway, let'sget back to story. I wasn't so

(37:52):
I'm up for a nomination. I'mnot nominated because you know, I'm a
member Ben one for twenty five years. You know, I'm a bla blah
blah blah. So we get onthis list, and you know, so
there's four men, of course,and one lot for a woman. But
they nominate Tracy Nelson. I'm like, son of a bitch, you know,

(38:13):
and I and we're like this isinsane, you know, who is
not a traditional blue singer. Butanyway, so now we have a joke
because I was in the top fiftyof the Living Blues Records of the Year
for twenty twenty three, and oneof my friends nicely put it on Facebook.

(38:35):
Well I don't see miss Nelson herelike shoot me in the foot.
But whatever, you know, Sowe're in Memphis. You're so that's my
full circle. You're working consistently,and you're you're playing songs, but they
they're not your song are No?No, every day I play my song.
I worked two every day. Idid my songs okay for sure,

(38:57):
and then these would be my fillersbecause I've learned, I just can't do
all my songs. I had todo songs they knew, so I would
pick. So we do Memphis songs, you know, take Me to the
River. Let's the other. Otiswriting song that everybody loves, sitting at
the dog of the dock of thebay, very good, all these songs,

(39:19):
you know, then I sing allthe You're good. So then I
sing all the girls songs too.You know, I do a lot of
girl songs. That's what I wasgoing to get. Anissa sol at a
Janis. I mean your songs,your songs. When did you start writing
songs? No, I've written songsforever. My first song I wrote,
I think I was I don't know, maybe maybe the first song I completed

(39:40):
I was eighteen. I wrote onebefore that, maybe two, but they
were they I wouldn't They could stillbe songs. If I went back and
revisited it, probably could pick somethingthat write something out of that but you
know which, that's a good idea. Thanks John, I'll put your name
in that because you know I haveThat's probably one of the only tablets I

(40:01):
have left is that very first it'swrinkly frinkly tablet from nineteen seventy. I
don't know what, but it's somewherein my junk chur What inspire I had
to move so many times? Whatinspires you? What do you write about?
Or I probably the central things thatthat most songwriters. Yeah, you

(40:24):
know, whether it's love, hate, have have not done wrong? Done
right? You know kind of stuff. Family turned into I just wrote this
song called Severed. It's on thatrecord, and it started about being about
my family actually, because we justlost our mother and everybody loses their mind

(40:44):
and you know, nobody wants tohear the truth. Then I'm the truth
speaker, so I'm not the oneanybody wants to talk to. But it's
okay, you know, And soit started out being about that, and
then I turned it into well thewhole world was in the same place,
really, you know. So thesong the line is like, so we
could never be severed again. You'retalking about during the pandemic, right,

(41:06):
the pandemic just divided people. Therewere things said by people that divided this
country that were ridiculous and still ridiculousand scary, ridiculous and going. You
know, I'm just I mean,I'm a little I've never been this worried
before about you know, remember wonderingwhat the hell they're going to do next.

(41:28):
Yeah, a lot of people areanxious, and I think there's a
lot of misinformation out there. There'sa lot of lies out there, and
you just have to your homework andnot just believe somebody because they're telling you
something. You need to go readeverything you can find and maybe even try
to read history, which the peopleare trying to take away from us that

(41:52):
because you know, history repeats itself. They don't want you having knowledge anymore.
I believe this like more than Iever wanted to. You know,
everybody's stuck to these phones. Theybelieve what they read and not what is
written, you know, and yougo, what are they learning? Why
are they teaching these kids? Youknow, because we had freedom. You

(42:12):
have to say, we had freedomwhen we were young. We could walk
the streets, we could do things. Yeah, bad things happened, but
we had more freedom and now allday. Yeah, like kids don't have
that today. They are, they'redifferent, they're tethered, tethered and they
are. But they're so smart withthe media and everything. But as far

(42:36):
as and I think this is wherethey lose the emotion and the connection whether
you know, it's a lot goingon that I don't know if it's how
good or bad it really is,you know. And I don't want to
be the old fashionable going, ohmy god, but you know, get
off my lawn, yeah, orI'll shoot you. I thought you were
going to walk on my lawn.I shot you, and I I was

(43:00):
protecting my property and I shot you, so I should walk I'm like,
what the hell? You know,even though you know I lived in Memphis,
I have a gun permitt, Iown a gun. I own a
rifle, you know. But Ijust don't blatantly think you should be able
to walk into Walmart and buy one. No, you know, you should

(43:21):
have a background check, I think, and you should have a if you
got a mental And I'm not pickinganybody up, but if there's a red
flag, let's say, then thatshould be looked into. I don't know,
all right, let me, let'slet's get off that. Let's get
back to music. Get away fromthat, all right, So writing songs.
Let's get back to write, okay, right, one about that next
week that I was going to askwhat I would use you know what I

(43:44):
mean, stuff like that. IfI think about it too long ago,
you know, I have to writeabout this. So when did you when
When did you first go into thestudio? When when did you record?
Very first time I made a recordingand I thought about it for ten years
before I ever did, was herein Pittsburgh and the South Side. It
was I forget what it was callednow, but it was Robert Casper and

(44:07):
Jimmy Daherty. It was their studio. Yeah, And it was the first
time I ever did a record,and I was so proud of it.
And Robert did say to me,he said, you should run like a
school for people to make records.He goes, you were in and out
in three days and you had itdown. I said, I don't have
any more money, Robert. Ihad to make this work in my three

(44:29):
days. That's all I had.And so that first record, what how
many were they? All? Yoursong? Okay, what's his name?
Mike Sweeney wrote three? I thinkyou know. It pits up just from
Pittsburgh people. And I wrote somebut not all. The first time you
recorded your song, what was thatexperience? Like, I didn't really pick

(44:52):
it up from the other ones.It was nice, nice to have my
song. I was just excited torecord, to make a record, you
know. And I been singing thesesongs and I like them. I love
them, the people you know likethem. Put Jana's song on there,
and I don't even remember what Iput it. Uh at of James Damy
your eyes. I mean, justsongs I love to sing. We're on

(45:12):
this record, you know, becausewhen you love to sing a song for
what, I usually need to findwhatever cover song. I'm singing something in
there that I relate to and thenI can sing it. Yes, it
comes from inside. But see,you need to realize that there's so few
people on this planet that has recorded, let alone recorded their own words,

(45:37):
their own emotions on there's a recordingof it. To me, I think
that that's that's that's an experience I'llnever get. I'll take you in that
studio over there. We can doit. I can't I can't sing,
I can't do anything. I can'twrite I'll I'll sing yours. We can
write it together, and then I'llsing it for you. Then you can

(45:58):
sing background or some that doesn't.That doesn't, That doesn't. I'm proud
of that's what I do. Butit doesn't, it doesn't reverberate that.
Wow. I put my own emotionsand words on records. It's what I
do. It's like a brain surgeon, you know, they go in and
fix a brain. And I've hadmore brain surgeons tell me they wanted to

(46:21):
be singers than singers tell me theywanted to be brain serger. From a
lot of physicians that they wanted tobe they really wanted to be a performer,
a singer or a performer or something, you know, which is very
interesting to me. And because Iknow, I told him I never wanted
to do brain surgeon, never ina million years. But I get it,
you know. But it's very interesting, So it doesn't. It doesn't
affect me like that. No.I don't usually get starstruck easily either.

(46:45):
One time I was in Memphis,well, the first time I met David
Porter, and I don't know why. I mean, I've been with Isaac
Hayes so many I can't even namethem, you know, because everybody walks
down the street their page and plantwalk down the street. One night,
I'm like, gook that the guyJohn from Member Northern Exposure. Yeah.
Yeah, I loved him. Andone day I turned out he's standing in

(47:06):
front of me at my gig andI'm like, hi, you know,
and him, I did kind ofshadow up the streets. Thought he has
to be on the street because Iknow the street. I've been on the
street. And I found him atBlue City and like took a photo with
him, and you know, Ihad a chat and it was so sweet,
and I mean, okay, itmight have been a little star struck
then, but you know it wascrazy. Welcome to Memphis. Well,

(47:30):
who have you performed with that thatyou kind of, you know, consider
a badge of honor? May MacyO Parker. I have quite a few.
I can't even remember James Cotton,there's so many. I was on

(47:55):
the Blues cruises for so many years, fifteen years, twenty how many years?
Fifteen years? I think I've beenon fifteen Blues cruises. Everybody's on
there, And who have you openedup with opened up for? I should
say that I didn't really open thatI remember performed with, like on those
blues cruises that were like everybody onearth. Really yeah, Billy Branch,

(48:19):
I love Billy Branch, Little eduh, Wayne Baker, Ronnie Baker,
Lonnie Lonnie Brooks. You know,just I got more of the old guys
too, you know, I've I'veprobably pine Topped Perkins and Bake Eye,
Willie Smith and the Chicago guys.You know, they just came to memphisid
jump in and sing a song,I mean, or two or three whatever.

(48:43):
You know, it's just crazy tome. Like Bernard Party came and
played a pretty shuffle. He cameand played a plastic pocket and Silky's with
me while we were playing on thepiano. But he's on two of my
records, and hopefully he'll be onthe face on that record. I just
really yeah. So I take partyto Muscle Shoals. I have David Hood
from the Swampers on bass, ClaytonIvy on the keyboards. They're Swampers right,

(49:07):
and Will McFarlane's the newer Swamper,and then my Croatian guitarist is there
who we wrote a lot of songsthat we're all there. And I knew
this would happen because I did arecord previously with Bernard. We had eight
one take song, nine one takessongs and Jim Gaines is nine stop nine

(49:27):
nine one take song and take songsthat was on the first record but Bernard
which is called Fish and Dirty Water, which we did at Jim Gaines's studio
in Tennessee. So Jim Gaines ismy my producer on this one in Muscle
Sholes also, so I know thisis going to happen. So we get
in the studio and my Croatian guyslike, he's like poking it, he's
a ping, like just calm.I'm like, that's how he for her.

(49:53):
Oh my god, I cook forhim. But you know, yeah,
would you make to some kind ofpush? I can't remember any detail,
Johnny, right, I know somebodywho made you like, who is
this guy? Well, I can't. I can't announce this on the air
yet, but we have an agreementthat he'll be coming to the Eerie Blues

(50:15):
and Jazz. That's awesome, andI'll introduce you. That'd be great.
Yeah, you should come up.It's gonna be a great weekend. But
anyway, well, where were weWell were you so many things crumbs that
I am like, were talking okay, wait wait talking about the muscle shows
things. Yes, people, Welllet's explain what muscle shows for people who

(50:35):
aren't familiar with muscle shows. Thisis a legend documentary. Really you could
but you know, but you knowwhen you when you throw out swampers,
I know what that is. It'sa legend. Those these are like just
generalman, everybody was down there yetI don't know whether yes, everybody played
down there, everybody, seeker,everybody. I can't go down the list.

(51:00):
There's so many more. Oh yeah, yeah, like insane amounts of
people recorded down there and I'm onthe list now. Yeah. But so
we do this thing and we getin the studio and I know this is
going to happen. So everybody's likeand they're like, well, that's whoever
the first song? Because I knowthere's a pissing contest going to be happening
to see who's going to run thissession. It ain't me. It's never
me with the musicians, you know, when I have those guys, heyll

(51:22):
no, you know, I'm justthis singer, the sanger. But Bernard
Is I knew it would be bebut he then he gives the speech where
he'll say we're supporting her, weare making her music, and he means
it. It's you know, it'sa speech, but he means it and
it works. And we only hadone take, one one take song on

(51:44):
that record, and which one isit. It's song of the River,
which we just kind of we hada full map, but then it just
kind of flowed into something else whenwe did it, and we just used
to leave it alone, just leaveit like that, you know, No,
you hear time and timing. It'sthe first second, third take is
usually the one that you know,when people try to do forty fifty times,

(52:07):
it's just it doesn't have that.Once you go over three or four
takes, you're just beating a deadhorse or find a new song, you
know, Yeah, unless you wantto come or come back to it,
you know, That's what I say. You know, unless you have a
certain spot and somebody has a newidea that's different, that's not beaten the
same spot for somebody not to getthe park the way it's supposed to be,

(52:30):
you know, that's does that makesense to you? Yeah, Well,
here's the thing is, we wewent from your first record to this
one, so tell me, let'sbecause I want to get back to Okay,
So we went from the first tolast. Okay. So the ones
in the middle of the next threerecords are out of Studio City, California,
with Taj Mahalls Fan and Bluespan,Mike Finnegan, Tony Brounigle, Johnny

(52:51):
Lee Schell. I mean, theseare heavy hitting cats bass Larry Fulcher,
I mean, and they were almostlyfrom and they all moved to California and
did very well for themselves. SoI have three records with them, okay.
And that happened because of nine toeleven. Believe it. We were
all on the cruise all of asudden, and Tony and I had talked
talked about this record. Nine toeleven happens. Nobody's working, so everybody

(53:15):
needs work. So he calls me, so what about that record? And
I'm like, what about it?Let's make it. I'm like, okay,
you know. So on October ninth, I was on a plane after
September eleventh, and let me tellyou what, that was not an easy
plane for Creepy. It was veryhard, but I did it, you
know, and it was interesting.It kind of helped me in a lot

(53:37):
of ways to be I don't knowwhat, you know, dig deeper,
let's say. So that's when wemade that first record and it was really
cool. And Mike Finnegan was workingwith Eddie James that weekend at House of
Blues and was my birthday, sothey he took me. He goes,
come on, it's your birthday,let's go do this. And I got
to go up and be with Eddaand the boys and meet everybody again because

(53:58):
I'd met them on the cruise,and I mean it was just sweet.
I loved every minute of that.You know, I'm a big at a
fan me too. She was anamazing singer and a very very interesting I
only met her twice, maybe threetimes, but I mean the first time
it was this, I was like, Hi, how you doing, But

(54:20):
you know, she's very intimidating.But then once she laughed, I kind
of thought maybe I'm the same way, you know. But it was interesting.
But yeah, I loved meeting her. But you know, la,
Okay, So three records with theFan of Blues band, I have three
live ones at Solke's. My friend'sa great engineer. I brought her in.
She had a mobile rig, andso we spent two or three weekends,

(54:42):
maybe two weekends, I can't remembertwo or three recording live at Solky's.
Maybe it was three because I hadthree posters, you know, the
old fashioned ones with lake that lookedlike ty Die, you know, with
the silkis thing. But everybody thatcame on every night would sign them for
the weekend, so we must havehad three weekends. So I did Volume
one, two and three out ofthose three weekends, and it's it's really

(55:05):
cool. So Volume one has abunch of blues, summer mine, some
are whatever, but you know,I learned the royalties were kind of high
when they weren't my songs. Soand then I did two Christmas songs,
which is kind of cool because theywere already free ranged, ready public DOMAINIA,
so that was cool. And thenthe second one is all blues,
a lot of my songs, alot of blues, a lot of sing
alongs with the people just live atwhat I do because I did it for

(55:27):
so many nights. I mean,I had audience participation every night, you
know, drinking, singing crazy.It was fun. And then Live Number
three was all cover songs that Idid in those sessions, so it was
very interesting record and then at threerecords, and then after that I went
into Willie Mitchell's. I met Willie. My saxophone player was Lanny McMillan,
who worked for Willy since he wasfourteen. He would play goes I played

(55:52):
on the street corn. One dayWilly say get your ass in here,
boy, you know, and hegoes. So he goes in and his
first the first song that Lanny playedon was Can't Stand the Rain with m
peeples and played there for the nextfifty years. It still plays there,
you know. So anyway, Igo in, I meet Pops. It
was so sweet, he was sonice. I had given him my first

(56:12):
record and one or two of thePhantom Blues records, and I said he
and he said, I'll make yourrecord. Well then he fell and broke
his ankle. He was a baddiabetic and it was just the end,
you know. It took a while, but so we never went. But
his son, Boo, grandson Boo, was like, I'll make that record
for you. And then Boo andI made three records, which is cool,

(56:36):
you know. So I did threerecords with them, three records with
the Phantom Band, three live records, the very first one and then two
with Jim Gaines. He've done alot, a lot of recordings and I
am an independent artist. I paidfor all of these. I think I'm
still paying for the last time Jesus, Mary and Joseph. But you know
they're great records. Well, whodistributes them for you? This is the
first time I went with a distributor. I'd see the baby. I did

(56:58):
it all myself, them on yourown two. I did everything. Yeah,
and it's crazy. I have awhole full basement full of records,
like too many records, CDs,nobody. But I said, well,
you can have him as an autographpiece of plastic now. But it's a
great idea. So let's let's getback to from the shoals. Okay,
so when did this project start.It started Hutch and I started writing songs.

(57:22):
I think in twenty twenty one.We wrote our first song, and
then twenty I went to Croatia.So we were drunking a bar and I
said, you know what, I'mleaving tomorrow, we need to at least
write a song, and we wrotethree Wow that night right and one night
right there We're sitting at the barWe just wrote three songs. So then

(57:44):
we became very good songwriters. Wehave eight songs on there together. He's
a good musician and he has differentideas because he's European, you know,
they're just different. And I'm I'ma good lyricist and I So we studied
the Muscle Shols documentary and we wouldtalk on WhatsApp and we would send files

(58:06):
back and forth and I would recordinto the file and send it back to
him with my idees and vice versa. Yeah, and so then we tweak
it and then I talked to Jim. Then Bernard's on board. Everybody's on
board again, and I'm like,Jim's like, Muscle Sholes, we'll do
this, you know, we'll getthis and get David and I can get
this. I said, okay,great, And man, I got a
killer saxophone player on here, BradGwynn. He's from Muscle Sholes. He

(58:30):
walked in. He looked like hejust came off the pig farm. I
thought, who's this guy? Youknow, I'm your saxophone player. I'm
like, really, to me,that's that's Muscle Shoals. Like, hey,
a pizza delivery guys go because hewas, and I thought, huh,
aren't you something? And so thefirst song we did was too far

(58:52):
on that record, and I said, we'll listen to this. I said,
it's, you know, just foryou, and he looked at me
and he goes, now, I'mgoing there make you cry. And he
went in there. And I'll tellyou what, he's a badass. He's
between jazz and blues. He's gotsome licks on there. I was like,
you like my favorite people, like, I'm Charlie Parker, I'm standing
gets, I'm all the way allthese dudes, and I mean it was
a big saxophone fanatic and he hiteverybody. I was like, I love

(59:16):
you, and it was just likespontaneous. Oh yeah, boom done.
It was great. So going intoMuscle Shoals and you said, you watched
the day. I've been there acouple of times. Oh, so what
is it like? It's heaven.They even have a really good coffee there
too, and I drink decaf andI can brag about their coffee. It's

(59:36):
it's I looked at houses to movethere before I went to Greensburg. I
thought, you know, I'm justgonna go to Muscle Soules and then life
just kept me here and I don'tknow why. I mean, I'm a
total believer that I'm not in controlof this ride. I wake up every
day going, thanks Jesus, whatare we doing today? Because you know,
there's no sense I get in thecar and go. You know,

(59:57):
I said, okay, we havea plan. We have It's not a
plan, it's a what's that calleda framework? Guy? Like framework?
Okay, whatever happens, I rollwith it. There's no sense. I
mean, I used to be psycho, you know, you know, and
I'm like, Okay, I've learnedthat doesn't help anybody that's less myself,
and it's it doesn't matter. Ijust try not to get frazzled anymore and

(01:00:22):
just roll with it because it's somuch better. It's not easy, but
it's so much better. What areyou most proud of? Like, of
all the body of work? Whatdo you what do you like? Let
me think about that. What amI mass part? This is the first
time anybody's asked me this question.Very good, John, Johnny. I

(01:00:45):
think I'm most proud that I'm stillalive. I lived through all of this,
because I mean, if like Isaid, I said to Marshall Ball.
One time, I said, Marcia, you know she go to Memphis
and good New Orleans. She lookedat me, she said Memphis, And
that was probably the best thing sheever said to me, because I was
seriously considering New Orleans. But Iknow the alley's on it. I know,

(01:01:05):
I mean, I love New Orleans. But way bigger ball of crazy
than Memphis was. Memphis has itsthing, but that you just get lost,
you're you know it was that wouldhave been a little fish in a
big sea. I would have foundmy way out, but maybe maybe not
so anyway, most proud of Iloved just I love when somebody walks up

(01:01:30):
to me and thanks me for likeI'm want to cry. So we'd be
in Memphis and I'd do these shows, and you know, we were the
biggest thing to do in two hundredand fifty miles. People came when they
were kid was going to Afghanistan orwhen he came home or when he didn't
come home, because that was thelast place they had a good time with

(01:01:50):
him, or their mama. Samething. So I was their memory.
And to be that powerful in somebody'slife for memory of a good one like
that, you can't. I can't. We can't put a price on that.
It's not about the money. RI'd been gone a long time ago.
I'd have been on that couch along time ago if it was about
the money. Talk to me aboutPittsburgh. You've been to Memphis, and

(01:02:13):
you've been to New Orleans, andyou've been all over the Croatia, and
I've been all over the world Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania, and Pittsburgh
is kind of a microcosm of justthose little places. But you know you're
you're from I bleed black and gold. I'll tell you that much. I
was raised here. I don't feelthat I get as much love as I

(01:02:35):
give in this Look at that musicthing, oh look aw, you know,
but I'm getting back in it here. You know, I didn't feel
the recognition was there. There arepeople that do newspaper articles here and some
and I won't mention any names,who will not put my name in anything.

(01:02:59):
And why don't know, you know, nor do I care. And
I've even asked, did I saysomething? Did I do something? Do
I need to apologize to you forsomething? Yeah? You know? Did
I miss I don't know? Butyou know, we're getting back to blockers.
Yeah, exactly, so you know, and things like that. And
I really think that was one ofthe biggest blockages I've had here. And

(01:03:22):
I don't know how that happened,if it's a power trip or whatever,
but whatever, I don't care.You know, I'm just going forward and
rolling on. Are rolling on obviouslyyou've got the problem. And I love
it here and the people are cool, and when they see me again,
they're like, oh my god,I haven't seen you in thirty years.
I'm like, exactly right, youknow, but you know, it's great.
So you've got from the shoals.I do. What's your aspirations for

(01:03:47):
the for the record? Uh,it's gone beyond my expectations. I mean,
like I said, it was theR M R Soul blues chart for
sixteen months maybe, and I wentto look to and I didn't even get
to that soul blues chart yet.I just was looking at the blues records
because a lot of my friends areon there again, and I was happy
to see it because I haven't lookedbecause it was like every Monday, we'd

(01:04:10):
be like, are we on thereagain? And we were, and I'm
like, oh my god, andI thank all the DJs and everybody because
you know that. To me,I was told that chart doesn't matter.
And I'm like, every chart mattersbecause this is the DJ chart. This
is the local guys playing me.This is not your big bullshit kissing each
other's ass chart. You know,I didn't have to pay anybody to be
on this chart. They're playing itbecause they like the music and that I

(01:04:33):
love, you know, and soit was cool. That's what I like
about that. But anyway, sowhat do you plan it in the future.
Oh jesus, I'm planning on tomake my next record in Chicago.
I want a Chicago record now.I have one in Muscle Sholes, I
got three in Memphis, three outof LA. I got Chicago, New
York, and probably New Orleans.On that it'd probably be Chicago New Orleans

(01:05:00):
because I have to get back toNew Orleans. Your recording bucket list,
Yeah, it's my bucket list.The New Orleans is my recording bucket list.
But tab why I'm coming for yourstudio? Boy? You hear me,
all right? And uh, butthat's my plan kind of. I
mean, they cost so much money. Come on, come on, Fred
fred Smith. I just put infor your grant. Give it to me.

(01:05:23):
But that's it. That's all Igot with them. What's Barbara's legacy?
I don't know. Be nice.Everybody got the blues, you know,
just enjoy it. Don't be anasshole. That's what I say.
Drive nice, don't be an asshole. Yeah, that's all I tell them.

(01:05:45):
I tell them every dad, wakeup and I say, Jesus please,
today's helped me to be less ofan asshole. That's my mantra for
the morning prayer. You know,I'm like, Jesus loves me, but
you have to talk to you know. And so I say