Bill Toms, Poet, Soul-Shouter, Guitar Slinger

From: https://billtoms.com/bio

Bill Toms is a poet, a soul-shouter and guitar slinger with one foot in the gutter and an eye on the heavens above. And man, does he front a great rock n' soul band!” - Will Kimbrough/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Got news. This is a videoand you are I'll bless your heart.
This is the Coda podcast Callicleen Pittsburgh'smusic scene. Oh welcome in. I'm
your host, Johnny heart Well alongwith Andy Pugar. Today we talked to

(00:23):
Barbara Blue, the reigning Queen ofBeale Street. Hello, Hello, Hello,
Hello, Hello, Well Tom,how are you? I am doing
fine? Johnny thing. We gotso much to talk about, so much
we don't want to talk about itthe other time with the house rockers and
talking about new music and everything else. But I want, I want you

(00:45):
to take me back. Oh man, what is your earliest the earliest that
you can remember, your earliest musicalmemory. Wow, my earliest musical memory
probably was my mother buying me theforty five to the Beatles Penny Lane.
I was like five or six yearsold, and I remember we lived in

(01:07):
Knoxville area, and I remember goingacross the street to my friend he lived
over there and played it on hislittle record player. That's the earliest earliest
thing. But I had I havetwo older sisters. You know, I'm
the the surprise. You were thebaby. Yeah, but my sisters were

(01:33):
ten and fourteen years older than me, so they were going to dances back
in the sixties when I was akid, So I would get a lot
of that music in the house fromlistening to them motown stacks, you know,
all the soul music is what Iremember. And then then my sister,
the other sister turned into a hippie, and then I started listening.

(01:53):
Then I started hearing like Sergeant Pepperand things like that. So so Penny
Lane, was that? Was thatbecause you like that song? Or is
that something that your mother thought youwould want to buy? It's probably something
that my mother thought I would wantbecause it was so popular. I was

(02:13):
so young. I don't remember why, but she also bought me weird.
She also bought me like when Iwas probably nine, nine years old or
nine or ten years old, thesline of family stone. It's a family
affair. Why why, I don'tknow. Maybe she liked that. Yeah,

(02:34):
you know, we did to share. Did you come from a musical
family somewhat? Somewhat? My motherand my sisters, they and my grandmother
they all played piano. My fatherplayed a trumpet, So I would say,
yes, yeah, they It wasn'tlike it wasn't like we were sitting
around jamming you know what I mean. It was mostly because they they did
it in church. You know,that was a thing. Church was was

(03:00):
a big thing when I was youngwith my family, my mother and father.
So it's kind of craziness, tobe honest with you, but more
evangelical and my sisters and my mother. My mother was very very Slovak,
very Catholic, and she and myfather became this I don't want to say,

(03:25):
very conservative evangelical, but he hekind of he kind of drifted into
that. You know, it's along story, but he was an alcoholic
after the war, blah blah blah, and he got into this situation so
like the church. So my mother, being a good wife at the time,
just went with him. But shewas just really a Byzantine Catholic.

(03:46):
So I know, this is reallycrazy about the music, but that was
part of the music when I heardmusic at home, Like my sisters would
have to practice the the whatever theserm and the music for the church program
was and that in a strange kindof way. And then we you know,

(04:12):
as I got older, I gotout of that, and but I
still remember ministers and preachers and onein particular that I can go back to
and and and see him in mymind, you know, you know,
getting the crowd and connecting with thiscrowd of people. And I've I've actually

(04:34):
taken on that in my own presentationof my music. So a lot of
that where I come from and thatpart of my life is part of my
presentation. It influenced you, Itinfluenced me, not not the subject matter,
but it influenced me on how hepresented it in presentation. Yeah,

(04:56):
because I mean this guy, couldyou know, he could stir real loone
and get done and then he wasjust you know, by the end of
the sermon, he was fire andbrimstone. You know what's funny. I
heard you telling that story and youhave such a your voice is so listenable.
Oh it was like, oh mygod, I could you know,

(05:17):
I can hear you saying, butbut to hear you talk, you have
that you have a very musical voice. You have the radio timber you do?
Okay, Yeah, well thank you. So you grew up in Knoxville,
yeah, mine, Oliver, right, okay, and what what what
were you listening? What was onthe radio when you were growing up?

(05:39):
Like I said, it was,it was I remember mostly soul music.
Is what I remember in his sixties. I remember maybe it's because of my
sisters. They were listening to that, you know, Motown and Stacks and
you know, Wretha Franklin and allthose you know those people. But also

(06:01):
what was a big thing when Iwas a kid was the Monkeys, The
Monkeys and the Beatles. You knowthe Monkeys, but it was more because
we could actually watch the Monkeys ontelevision when you're seven year eight years old.
You know, that was the wholething. And I thought, you
know, there's something to this,you know, because well they would play
their music and then the girls wouldchase them down the street. And I

(06:25):
thought to myself, well that's that'snot a bad thing. I mean,
you know, right, that couldbe something. You know, well,
the Monkeys is the only artists singleor you not Michael Jackson, not the
Beatles that had four number one albumsin one year, oh albums albums,

(06:47):
four number one albums in one year. And just to think that that year
that that they did that they dominatedthe television, radio and you know everybody's
listening happens, right, and soI think that had a huge impact like
it did. Let's face it,there's a lot. You're not the first

(07:10):
musician to say, hey, Igot into music because I love music,
but I also would I'd love tobe chased by girls. Well you know,
yeah, I mean, you know, and you know, as I
got older and I became a teenager, and I was very introverted. I
was not very shy person. Iwas never very outgoing at all. And

(07:31):
I was really like to want thisone girl. And it was at her
house and her brother had a guitarand I picked it up and she says,
well, you look really good withthat guitar. That's all you needed
to hear. You know, fiftyyears here we are, you know.
So I started taking a couple lessons. I'm like, okay, but I

(07:55):
always always music, I mean,I guess from a very early age,
like it was always had to bepart of my my my routine, my
daily routine in some form or another. You know, in our house,
you know, we would come homefor lunch and my mother always had the
radio on. There was always musicduring the day. Katie Ka, you

(08:18):
know, that was always seemed tobe Katie k was always on in my
house. So yeah, and myfather, he my father liked you know,
Fats Domino was a big thing withhim. But it was also very
like my mother. Like I said, my mother Slovak. My grandparents came
from what is now check the Slovakia, but they would polka, you know.

(08:48):
And it's it's a strange combination because, like I said, my father
they went to this church that didn'tbelieve in dancing, but my father could
polka. And when my when myall my aunts and uncles got together there,
you know, you were you wereexpected to be able to throw it
around with one of my ants,you know. And of course I didn't
appreciate it at the time, butI sure do now. You picked up

(09:11):
the guitar, Yeah, they agirl says you look good. Yeah,
and I stopped. But I butI like music too. It wasn't just
that, you know, But hadyou played it prior to that? No,
I was a trumpet player. Iplayed trumpet in my school band.
Yeah, So tell me, youknow when you picked up the guitar and
when did you When did you perform? When did you perform? When?

(09:35):
When did you form your first band? Oh? I I was eighteen or
nineteen, picked up the guitar asfifteen, and you know, I just
started off listening to folk music orwhatever, just something to play by myself,
you know, and started getting intorock and roll. I was formed

(09:56):
my first band, which was calledPendulum, and we formed that band,
you know, nineteen seventy nine,nineteen eighty, and yeah, we started
performing right off. You know.Was it a cover band, Yeah,
it was a cover band. Andwhat kind of songs were you playing?
Mostly like Rolling Stones, the Doors, you know, Psychondel at that time,

(10:24):
you know, in nineteen eighty youknow, that was what new wave
or new a you know, andwe were going we were playing the oldies
at that time, even you know, the Rolling Stones and stuff like that.
Classic rock, classic rock. Yeah, yeah, right, but that
seemed to go over in Pittsburgh,and it's what we could do. So
that's what we did. And whoare some of your early guitar influences Probably

(10:54):
at that time, you know,guitar wise, it was probably you know,
Springsteen, but I was listening tomore like the writers too, you
know, Tom Petty, this isnineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty to Clash.

(11:22):
And that's why when we you know, me and a friend we had
this band, Pendulum, but wewere writing songs too, just weren't playing
them out right, So then wethis is maybe a year or two later,
we put another band together called TheShades, and that was more clash

(11:43):
new wave Joe Jackson, you know, that type of stuff, and we
were doing our own music as well, with you know, throwing us some
originals in there. All right,let me get back to your writing.
When did you When did you startwriting? How so you started around fifteen
sixteen? Yeah, I was.I was writing about that time too.
Do you remember the first song youever wrote? It was about an no,

(12:05):
but I remember it was about Indiansand American you know, Native Americans
or something like that. I can'tremember that, but I just remember writing
about I was pissed off about theway the Indians were Big Tree today.
Yeah. You were into social causesall the way back there. Yeah,
yeah, it was. And Iwas writing poetry too because I got into

(12:26):
Bob Dylan. It was weird.I got into Bob Dylan during his Christian
phase, but which is right aboutthat time that, Yeah, but I
started going back and listening to hisstuff and reading about everything. And at
the same time, you know,they used to have movies at the Pittsburgh

(12:48):
Playhouse for a dollar at midnight onSaturday nights and me and some friends went
and saw The Last Waltz. Sothat had a big impact on me,
you know, And then seeing Dylanthere, I was like, Okay,
now this is this is my grouphere, this is the guys that I
want to hang with, you know. So I started going back and figuring

(13:09):
out, well, what, youknow, what did they listen to,
what did he listen to, whatdid they you know, read? And
I just started like for me,my uh, my own personal opinions and
my own outlook on that. It'sfunny, we're roughly the same age.

(13:30):
And I was listening to kind ofbubblegum music and then I watched The Last
Waltz and it changed overnight. Yeahit does. And the funny story was
we had a gig, the first, one of the first gigs I've ever
played with when we had Pendulum,our first band, and somebody booked us
at the at the Saint Anne's HighSchool or Saint Anne's School in Castle Shannon,

(13:54):
and it was just for like aFriday night in the auditory, a
Friday night community thing, and Iwas so nervous. I didn't know what
to wear, and I had justseen the last walltz, So I said,
well, Robbie Robertson had a scarfhon, So I'll put a scarf on.
And that's all I remember. Justput a scarf on. You'll be

(14:16):
cool, You'll be fine. Youknow. Well present you were thinking about
it, right, Yeah, it'sJoe Biz, right, So tell me
about that first performance. What doyou remember of that. I remember that
it was one probably the only performancethat my father saw me. He yeah,

(14:37):
that was probably because he got cancerand he died a few years later,
and it was only you know that, That's what I remember my parents
coming there and seeing and it wasprobably pretty pretty bad. But what was
their reaction? My father once toldme, and he grew up with Joe.

(15:00):
You know, he grew up inMount Washington and so he my father
was a steamfitter, he was aconstruction worker. And he told me,
he said, this is about thetime I was out of high school and
just about trying to figure out whatI wanted to do. And he once
told me he said, well,he said, I don't understand the thing
that you're doing. He says,but if you're going to do it,

(15:22):
do it the best that you can. That's what I remember my father telling
me, you know, so ina lot of ways, they were very
very supportive of me. If youcan't get out of it, you got
to get into it, that's right, you know, head first. And
so do you remember any of themusic, any of the songs that you
played on that first I remember playingthat first gig. I remember playing Ooh

(15:48):
that smell by Leonard Skinnyard and there'sa guitar intro to that, and we
screwed it up and we had tostart over again. That's what I remember,
and not thinking that, well,you don't do that, you know,
But that's what I remember about that. What was the reaction of the
crowd pretty mediocre, if I remember, I don't remember much much reaction at

(16:17):
all. Right, But now,once you were done, yeah, playing
for the night, how did youfeel? I felt like, yeah,
I'm onto something like this is thisis where I belong, you know.
I always felt that way when Iplayed music, and even when I listened
to music, I felt this iswhere I belong. I remember my wife
and I started dating not long notlong after that, I mean we started

(16:41):
dating in eighty two. We've beentogether for forty three years. Forty two
years. So yeah, we're justgetting to know each other. But I
remember we were at the Decade onetime and we're seeing a band. I
don't even remember what the band was, and I remember looking at her and
saying, this is where I belong, This is my place right here,

(17:04):
this is it, you know,because again I was never real comfortable outside
of that. I was never anoutgoing person. I never had you know,
tons of friends, girlfriends or anythinglike that. I was a bit
of an introvert. But that place, that place I felt the most at

(17:26):
home, the most comfortable square pegin a square Oh, it just it
just felt it just felt right,Yes, yes, it felt right.
A bar with music, I felt, that's that's me. So when you
started playing and performing a cover band, but used when did you start incorporating

(17:47):
your songs? Well that was theShades and again that was we were playing.
Didn't do any We did a littlebit of recording, but nothing released.
And in those days, I alwaysfelt, you know, I can
remember thinking that if we did somerecording, but it was always demo stuff,
sure to make a record. Thatseemed to me that you needed a

(18:08):
record label. And we finally gotsigned to a record label in nineteen eighty
three, and it was if youremember Nick Sensey, Nick Sensey with he
worked for Motown for a while.He was from Pittsburgh. He did he
did a lot of different things.But he had this record label called Zanzibar
Records, okay, and they signedus to a deal. And it was

(18:33):
my friend Gary's song Girls from Soho. It was a new wave type of
song and we recorded it in myparents' basement. And for whatever we took,
we found somebody that knew somebody thattook a tomb and he said he
wants to sign this band. Sohe signed, We signed contracts and nothing
ever happened. I mean, heput us into this studio and we just

(18:56):
couldn't We weren't good enough or something, or the song just didn't come out
the way it was supposed to comeout, and nothing ever really happened.
But it was my first, Iguess, my first look at the music
business, you know, and Ididn't think much of it. I didn't
think like, Okay, well we'lljust get another one. You know,

(19:18):
that didn't work, so let's goon and do something different. When it
came to the Shades, Yeah,who is the leader well, me and
Gary. Gary. Gary was inthe act, but he goes by the
name of Gary West. Now he'sstill a musician down in Florida. Is
a great songwriter. The two ofus were the the you know, the

(19:41):
singers and the writers. So howdoes an introvert, somebody who's kind of
in the background suddenly find himself leadinga band. Well, again, I
think that's where you find I foundmyself the most comfortable in that situation.
I mean Gary and I were friends, and he was sort of the same

(20:03):
way. We're all misfits, youknow, musicians are just misfits. They
just have no place anywhere else,it seems. And so we were kind
of the same, you know,and it just seemed to work out.
You know. It evolved into somethinglike that. You know, it evolved
into you know, you meet thisperson, you meet that person, and

(20:23):
okay, let's get a band together. And Gary, Yeah it was Gary.
Gary and you worked together. Didyou collaborate with lyrics? Music both?
How did that work? Not toomuch? Not too much? No,
it It was cool because Gary waslike Gary's three years older than I
am, So he was like whenwe met, I was eighteen, he

(20:45):
was twenty one. And he wasgoing to pitt He knew all the cool
places, he knew all the coolthings. He could go into the decade.
He knew all the guys from theIron c of the Ice Rocker,
he knew all the cool people,you know, the silencers. I was
just this eighteen year old kid.I didn't know nothing, you know,
I didn't know anything about anything.And he wrote songs. So that was

(21:10):
my I don't know, my uh, I guess you called a mentor.
You know, at the time,didn't realize, but I said, well,
if you could do that, I'mgoing to try that, you know.
So we would we would get togetheronce a week. We'd write a
song or two or whatever, andwe'd sit and we'd record that those songs

(21:30):
just with a you know, acassette player. We'd record these songs,
and then you know, we'd goout and ride around, drink beer and
listen to these songs, thinking thatwe had something going. You know.
I wish I had those tapes now, I don't know where they are.
Looking back, that that's that struggle. Yeah, when you're going through it,

(21:51):
it's horrible. It's just like thisis just but you look back and
you go that that was the best. That was the best time ever.
Yeah, And I don't we thoughtwe were struggling. We just figured,
you know, you know, mything was. I mean, I can't
remember at the time thinking someday I'mgoing to play on a stage. No,
I didn't think. I wasn't thinking, you know, the civic arena

(22:12):
or anything. I was thinking justa stage in a bar. You know,
I'm thinking, boy, if Icould do that, that would be
the most amazing thing in the world. So for me that, you know,
that was That's all it took,you know, is for me to
get up on stage and front offive people or whatever it was. So
what happened to the Shades, Well, it we kind of we you know,

(22:36):
kind of morphed into something different,and you know, we were trying
different guys and this one quit,that one quits. Gary actually quit,
and I at that time, thiswas nineteen eighty five eighty six, I
filled in because we had Gary hadknown the guy from of the Iron City

(22:59):
House, right, and so weopened up for them. And I remember
Joe asking me, hey, myguitar player at the time, can't make
it to this certain gig. Itwas a it was Thanksgiving Eve nineteen eighty
six in Butler at the rivet.He says, can you fill in?
I said, yeah, yeah,no problem at all. And at the

(23:21):
time, Jeffo Simmons is playing drums. He played with the Shades, So
there was this combination of these twobands that kind of came together. And
so when I played that gig andthen we just were we just knew each
other. We just you know,call each other up and I would go
see them play. And at thetime, the Shades we weren't doing a

(23:45):
whole lot, we weren't doing.It just didn't seem like the right combination
of people at the time. AndI got a phone call, but it
was actually Draffo that called me ona Monday night. He said, the
guys there was this three guys intheir band. This is Joey g and
the brick Alley Band. Three guysin the band quit, like just quit.

(24:08):
He said, I think you're gonnaYou're gonna join the band. I
said, well, I don't know, you know, So like ten minutes
later, Grishek calls me. Hesays, hey, you want to get
a band together? These guys justquit. I said, yeah, well
we can do I'm thinking, youknow, I'm thinking we'll practice for a
while and then we'll you know,get things together. And he said,

(24:30):
we gotta we gotta gig next weekat the Decade, and you're there.
It is, there, it is. And they went from a six piece
band. Now we're just a fourpiece band. So not only do I
got to learn all these songs,but the other guys really have to adapt
to not having a six piece band. And we went down to a four
piece. It went to a fourpiece band, and uh, that's how

(24:52):
it all started with the house Rockers. You know, all right, I'm
gonna bookmark that because they weren't comeback to that. Okay, But you
know, people don't realize how influentialthe decade was. Oh yeah, who
did who? Who did you seeat the decade before you got to perform?
Oh man, there was just funnystory was I didn't see you two

(25:15):
play, but I was there.The Pendulum had a gig at the Decade.
And when at the Decade, youhad to take a contract down to
dominic And so it was my turnto take the contract down to Dominick.
Yet to sit there and wait forDominick to But at the time when I
was down there was in the afternoon. The guys from U two were loading
in and I had no idea whothey were. I'm holding the side door

(25:38):
for them. They're bringing in theirgear. But but no, I saw,
you know, a lot of bluesbands at the time. You know,
we see you know, the Red, Hot and Blue and uh.
You know, I remember seeing jetSet and a lot of a lot of
a lot of good music. Butit was just a it was just a
scene at the decade, you know. That's so. But but being on

(26:03):
the decade stage something at that timewhen you did oh it did yeah,
yeah, I mean I was terrified. I mean I was terrified. I
didn't look up. And uh,to this day, I got I got
friends. I got a friend ofmine, more of you, who has
been coming to see the house rockersforever. He still comes to see me

(26:25):
play. He said that first thatfirst night that I played. He said
he looked at his his buddy nextto him. He says, I'm not
sure this kid's gonna make it.You know, he said, you proved
me wrong. Though. Well,it can be intimidating when you're oh,
it's intimidating. Plus you're thinking youknow, it's not like natural. You

(26:45):
know, you're not when you havelike five days to learn a night's worth
of music. Yeah, how familiarwere you with that? I was.
I was a little because I hadfilled in one night the year before.
But you know, again, it'sjust but it was good, it's it's

(27:08):
it was good for me looking backat that. It was good to be
thrown into the fire like that becauseyou had to sink or swim, and
I'd be damned if I was goingto sink. That's the attitude that I
had to take. Well, sometimesit takes time to I like to say,
to see the fastball, to seethe curve. You know, when

(27:29):
you stand up at the plate,you know, you know you can get
the fastball the offbeats, but ittakes a while to see the curve right.
And so there's a curve to seeingthat pitch right. So you're on
stage, you perform, it's maybenot you're you're terrified, you're scared,
and then but gradually as you getmore comfortable, you see the curve.

(27:49):
How long did it take for youto feel comfortable in the bad I mean
a year or so of steady,steady playing, and but you know again,
I had to find who I was, you know, on stage,
because now now I'm just a sideguy. You see, before I could,

(28:10):
I was the lead singer, youknow, I was running around And
I even told that that Joe.I remember saying something to him, like,
you know, sometimes I feel becausewhen I'm on stage, I'm just
let loose a little bit, youknow, And I even told him,
I says, man, I justsometimes i feel like I'm not being who

(28:32):
I am, you know, I'mnot letting loose. And he told me,
he said, you know, justbe yourself, he told I.
Remember that, he said, justjust be yourself, be who you are,
and it'll work. And then afterthat, I was just you know,
I'd get up there and i'd justthrow it out there, you know,
and we would have fun. Andonce you start to do that,

(28:52):
you see, you see that you'rehaving fun, the audience sees that they
can sense that. And to thisday, that's how I always look at
it. When you're playing with withJoe, did you were you continuing to
write music for yourself? Yeah,And that's one of the reasons why I
had to leave, because you know, it was just too much. I

(29:15):
was writing so much you know,and I did write some stuff with him,
you know, but when I wouldwrite with Joe, it'd be more
like I would have the music andhe would you know, he would have
the lyrics or he would give melyrics and say, hey, see what
you can do with this, andI would do that, but it had
to be a kind of a ahouse rocker kind of song. Right,

(29:37):
Well, yeah, what were youdeveloped? How were you what what style
were you developing? Well, again, it was pretty much the same,
but I was doing a lot oflike when I would write music with for
the house arts, with Joe,it would be more soulful. It would
be more soul music. Soul Survivoris one of the songs that I wrote
with him. And yeah, thatthat type, that type of Memphis type

(30:03):
music. So when I went outon my own and I started, I
just but I when I when Iwent out and started doing my own thing,
it was more Americana type stuff.You know. Americana where just anywhere
between folk music and rock and roll, you know, maybe even a little

(30:26):
country, you know. So Iwas just trying to I was listening to
all this stuff and I was justtrying to develop what I really really was,
and eventually I started to realize thatjust go be who you are again,
you know, that comes back intoplay. And the drummer that I

(30:47):
finally had was Bernie her Who whowas a soul drummer way back, you
know, And so I could writethese soul songs and feel like, man,
this is who I am. Andthat's how that that's I think that's
how I became what I would callmyself as a rock and soul music you
know. That's how it it's sortof evolved into that. You can hear

(31:11):
that Memphis influence exactly. To me, Memphis is the the middle of everything.
It's the middle of the country,it's the middle of it's all these
forms of music that come together tomake American music, you know. So
that's that's what I that's what Iwanted to you know, experiment with or

(31:34):
go into. You know, thisis the second week in a row that
we started talking about Memphis music becauseI'm obsessed with Stax music. I think
it just it's just you know,I you know, we talked about the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame beingin Cleveland. It's like there are a
bunch of posers you really ought tobe in Memphis, because I agree,
that's you know, you have youknow, Elvis to begin with, right

(31:56):
and but but but to me,it starts with you know how when you
think of Southern music, you thinkcountry, you think Nashville, you think
maybe Southern rock, you think maybethe Florida influence and Tom Petty and things
like that. But Memphis was ableto blend New Orleans jazz and the country
music and the soul from the fromfrom that era and that area and blend

(32:22):
it all into a really unique rockand roll music. And that's where it,
to me, is the heart ofwhere rock and roll really began.
Totally agree, and that's why Ihad a record. I put out a
record called Memphis in twenty eleven,you know, and that's we got Will
Kimbro from Nashville. He plays withEmilou Harris now, but he produced it,

(32:44):
and he's from Alabama. And that'swhat I wanted. I wanted all
these different different grooves, you know, the Memphis of the New Orleans grooves,
the you know, Chicago blues,everything's coming down into this this melting
pot in America with horns, withhorns. Well, that record, I

(33:08):
think I used horns for the firsttime, not a lot, but I
did use horns maybe for the secondtime. There was another song a couple
of years before that. But thenthen the next I said, I gotta
have a horn section, you know. And my thing was, well,

(33:28):
you know, Albert King had ahorn section, I gotta have a horn
section. All right, let's goingback a little bit. Let's kind of
retread, going back to the houserockers when you were playing with Joe.
Who were some of the people thatyou played with or opened up for.
We opened up for a lot ofpeople early on. Well, we got

(33:51):
a record contract pretty quick right afterI joined. I remember doing demo tapes
upstate. Years of Hollywood music.We would just set up the whole PA
system up there, put microphones atHollywood at Hollywood Yeah Hollow, yeah upstairs.
They had a third floor and Ididn't know that knew the warehouse thing

(34:14):
up there, and we would,uh, you know, make these tapes
and make these demos. And wegot a record contract with Rounder Records,
and uh that was eighty eight,Yeah, eighty seven. We got the
record contract and recorded through eighty eight, and it just took a long time.
The record came on eighty nine,but yeah, I mean we we

(34:38):
at that time, we you know, we were opening up for Stevie ray
Vaughan. What was Little What washe like? I don't know because he
was at that time. We playedwith him at the Amphitheater down the Station
Square and he was just getting sober, so he didn't really interact. We

(34:59):
interact did a lot with the LittleFeet, Little Feed. The guys from
Little Feed are fantastic. Should theybe in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame? They should be? Theyshould be. Do we just become best
friends? All right? Sorry?Yeah, yeah, and yeah, a
lot of people. I mean theband you know and and Live on Home

(35:24):
had to be one of the mostamazing human beings that I've ever met.
We played with the band in uhAtlantic City. It was it was us
widespread panic in the band and theywere late and I remember this and they
and but they were playing in Joe'ssystem. We were on the road and

(35:46):
justice to me, man, Iknow we're gonna get thrown out of here,
but let's go up on the sideof the stage. Man, it's
the band, you know, yougotta I mean, Robbie Robertson wasn't there,
but we you know. So wewent up there and we're standing on
the out of the stage and watchingLevon Hilm from ten feet away and it
was just unbelievable. And in themiddle of a song, he gets up

(36:09):
and comes over and says, heyyou He recognized Joey said, Joe rishacky,
how you doing. He gave hima big hugging. So this is
my guitar player, Bill, Heybig is me a big hugging. We're
talking. The song is still goingon, you know, and I'm thinking
to myself, God, this guyis amazing. And after the show and

(36:30):
he said, well, we'll getyou up to sing. He plays drums.
He sang yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was unbelievable.
And then we got up and wesang Happy birth I think it was
Garth Hudson's birth at the time.We sang Happy Birthday to him. They
finished the set, they all comeoff and Levon helm is introducing Joe and

(36:52):
I to you know, Rick Danko, Hey, Rick, this is Joe
and this is Bill, his guitar, you know, like as if we're
we've said let's and I remember sayingto Joe. He says, well,
let's get together and get this onthe road and make a little bit of
money at it. And I'm thinkingto myself, good lord. So years
later, when when Leavon Helm hadhis surgery, had his throats are kind

(37:15):
of cancer, he came to Moondogsand he played Moondogs his his daughter Amy
was singing. He was playing,just playing drums. So Moondog had me
open up for him, you know, with my band, and he this
is a This is like a coupleof years later, he come in that
door and I says, oh,you know, I told him who I

(37:37):
was, and he's, aw man, I remember you, and he gave
he gave me a big hug.And I'm thinking to myself, this is
the real thing here. This ishow you're supposed to be. Well,
the band is the real thing.That is when you when you talk about
influences, they've influenced so many people. Yeah, we go back to the

(37:57):
Last Waltz. I mean that's youknow, yeah, really you think about
it, I mean it really changeda lot of you. But all those
people on the stage were influenced bythe band. There were some luminaries on
that stage. Yes, yes,So if you've never seen the Last Waltz,
it's and if you're a fan ofmusic, it's it's a mussy,
all right. So you're developing withthe house Rockers, you're kind of writing

(38:24):
and collecting material, and so whathappens next, Well, a lot of
things happened. You know. Wewe were lucky enough to have Bruce Springsteen,
you know, produce American Babylon.That was nineteen ninety five. And
what was he like to work with? Oh? It was unbelievable. Always

(38:45):
tell people that, you know,I was never, never star struck by
him at all, and I thinkthat's just because of the way he goes
about treating other people. You know, it wasn't there was no you know,
there was no ego, there wasno How were you introduced? And

(39:07):
how did how did that that projectcome together? Well, Joe had known
him from the Iron City House Rockerdays when Miami Steve Steve van zand helped
produce one of the Iron City HouseRocker records. It's a long story,
but I got nothing to do allthat. Yeah, Okay, Well it

(39:28):
was nineteen ninety three, I remember, and Joe and I were doing an
acoustics show somewhere on the South Side, and he had taught he had he
had talked to John Landau about maybehaving Bruce play on one of our songs,
on one of the house rocker songs, just play on it, you
know, just because there was nothinggoing on. We had just got done

(39:52):
with Rounder records and nothing was happening, you know, And so Bruce had
called him the night we're playing,you know, he called him, and
I guess Joe's wife called the club. We had no cell phones at the
time, so you know, you'rerunning to the kitchen to get on the
phone. He said, Bruce Springsteenjust called. I said, well,
one thing leads to another. Hewants to do a couple of songs with

(40:15):
him. So they went up,Joe went out and went to New York,
I believe, and they cut acouple of songs, and I guess
Bruce said, well, let's let'slet's produce, let's do the whole album.
And I think he I don't know, but I think he wanted to
hear the band. I think hewanted to hear the band live, you
know, to see how we were. So we were playing a gig in

(40:37):
Long Branch, New Jersey, andit's nineteen ninety four, and so we
went out there, and he said, well, Bruce is gonna come down.
He's gonna play, he's gonna playwith us, and he's going to
do a soundcheck with us. He'sgoing to do all this. So I
said, well, that's cool.So we went there. We were staying
in a hotel next and went inthere and he pulls up in his motorcycle

(41:00):
soundcheck and we go in and everybodywas kind of back office, you know,
like they were kind of they didthey didn't want to bother them.
You know, it's rock royalty.Yeah, you want to give them a
space. You want to give thema space, so you don't want to
be that fanboy. Yeah. Sothe sound guys were still taking their time,

(41:21):
they were trying to get the soundtogether. So I'm sitting there and
my wife is there, you knowat the time, and my girlfriend I
guess no, we were married.We were married. And I says,
I got to talk to this guybecause he's just staying there by himself.
So I walked up and I said, hey man, you know, and
we started talking about the history ofthe area. You know, we weren't

(41:45):
talking about music or nothing, wewere just talking about the history. I
wanted to know a little bit aboutwe were in Long Branch in Asbury Park.
I wanted to know a little bitof it, and man, he
just we just talked for twenty minutes, just bullshit. You know, it's
podcast. Oh okay, I thinkI'm on I think I'm on radio.

(42:06):
Yes, we just we just wejust talked like that. And from then
on I just never felt uncomfortable.You know. I remember flying out to
LA to do the record and thinking, man, this is going to be
I'm never going to be able todo this. You know, I'm not
ready for this. But when Igot in there and we started playing,
it was just real comfortable, realcomfortable. What was his style of producing

(42:31):
was he did he have suggestions?Did he have a vision for the song?
What was that like working with himon Yeah, I mean well yeah,
I think he just sort of letlet the song work itself out.
I mean he did. He didrearrange a few things, you know,

(42:52):
And what I noticed with him hemade the songs more dramatic. That was
his thing, you know, soit was a good thing. His suggestions,
Oh yeah, yeah, he madehim bigger, you know, more
dramatic, more cinematic. If youwill, not all I mean a few

(43:12):
of them, but I think itworked out well. And uh yeah,
and then he just let the banddo his thing, you know. And
there was a song that I wrotewith Joe called Billy's Waltz on that record,
and it needed a mandolin part.And did you envision a mandolin when
you're writing it? Sort of?I wasn't sure, but he said,

(43:37):
we got to get a mandolin onthat. This this song, we got
to get that one part is ais a mandolin part. And I said,
oh good, I said, AndI said, well, I said,
why don't you do it? Youknow, I know Bruce played a
mandolin on a bunch of different things, and you know, he said,
I'm not real good at it.He said, you do it. Bill.

(43:59):
I'm like, oh okay. SoI went in. They were doing
something else. So I went intothe kitchen and I just mandled it in
like a Melbay book, you know, like chord book for me. And
I'm just picking out the making sureI noticed. So I want to hit
it in one take, you know. I called my wife and you know,

(44:20):
you won't believe this, but thatwas just what was Bruce's response.
He loved it. He loved it. Man he was like, yeah,
that's that's perfect. Yeah, hesaid, I'm not that good at it.
I'm like, well either, I'mnot either, and we laughed.
I mean, he's a funny guy. And you know we played with uh

(44:43):
Steven's aunt one night with him andSteve and Uh and Max Weinberg out at
the Trade Winds in New Jersey andjust laughed, you know, just laughed
a lot. They just love music, I got it, they just they
Yes, it's one of the biggestrock and roll, you know, rockers
ever. But yet deep down he'sa person who loves music and comes from

(45:07):
that era of a M pop radio, you know what I mean, like
you know, money money that youknow, that's you can understand why he
became. His music inside his musicis always some sort of you know,

(45:31):
pop, whereas in Pittsburgh we werealways more blues oriented, where you know,
the Shore that was more pop oriented. And you know I could see
that by how he well back inthe AM days, you you know,
is mono and you had to makethat song pop. Yeah, and then

(45:51):
when you bought the record it wasstereo and then really lit up the rood,
right, yeah, So where doyou fall in that spectrum. Ah,
probably closer to the blues oriented stuff. Everything we do is I think
is based on that. What wewere talking about that Memphis, you know,

(46:16):
melding that melt, that melting potof blues and rock and roll and
rockabilly, you know, And that'swhere I come in as far as pop
music is concerned. You know,people like Bruce were more affected I think
by the British invasion. That's whereyou get that pop sound. You know,

(46:38):
that pop music is more prevalent.And as much as I love that,
I think I'm more on the Americanmusic side of things. You know,
you were actually influenced by Yes,Frank. Okay, so you told
us about some of the recording.What was it like being on the road

(47:01):
at that time. Yeah, weactually did I don't know, six seven
gigs or something with Bruce, youknow, on the road. We played
up and we played in New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh of course at Fat
City, a couple in Chicago,and you know, with him on the

(47:22):
bus, you know, and soand then we went to Europe and played
a month in Europe. So notwith Bruce, but just we just toured
over in Europe for a month.So that period was exciting, you know.
I can remember thinking that, youknow, man, something's changing here,

(47:45):
you know. But on the otherhand, it didn't. What do
you mean, Well, I canremember when we put our first album out,
Rock and Reel in nineteen eighty nine. I got the Rolling Stone review
of it. It had like threeand a half starsing Stone magazine. Man,
my life is changing. I'm goingto be you know, I'm going

(48:05):
to be on a tour bus forthe rest of my life. I'm going
to be you know, I'm amusician now. Well, that tour was
basically, you know, a Mexicanrestaurant in Washington, d C. And
a club a club in Boston.You know, it's not what people think.

(48:27):
You know, it really has toyou have to get lucky, real
lucky, and things have to align. And it never did. It never,
it never took off in the waythat I thought it would have or
it should have. And but aftera while I was okay with that,

(48:47):
you know, like I like beingwhere we are or where I am.
Where did things go sideways? Wheredo you think? What what could you
guys have done to kind of breakthrough? Because it's it's it's not easy,
no it's not easy. You mightas well play the you know,
the power ball, because it's probablyeasier to win the power ball, right,

(49:09):
and to make it in the musicbusiness, like on a level of
Brooke Springs. Oh yeah, yeah, no, I think I think that
we we were older for one thing, you know, we weren't, you
know, twenty one years old.The music itself was not what was being
played on. As a matter offact, that's a good thing because at

(49:30):
the time, I think it wasgrunge music that was being very and we
actually did a a what do youcall We played at Fat City and there
was some record labels RCA Record,I remember Rarcier was being there, and
they said, well, they likedthe music, but it wasn't it wasn't

(49:53):
They thought we'd be more neo Youngish, you know, Neil Young playing with
Pearl Gim at the time, thatgrungey type of stuff, and I guess
to them we were more of athrowback, you know. So yeah,
I just I think timing is everything. You know, you look at the

(50:15):
Beatles, I mean, I meanthe world history and you know, like
timing has to be everything. Soand they were only you know, the
Beatles, they actually played it perfect, you know, it was it was
Yeah, they own the world.They rode that wave and they stopped and

(50:37):
it almost it was like a timecapsule. Sure, their music is it
relates to so many different generations.Had they kept on going, they probably
wouldn't be where they are today,right or if they were ten years later.
Can you imagine, you know,if the Beatles had continued to record

(50:58):
music into the eighties? Yeah,you know, and see the Beatles trying
to do, you know, doinglike Pat Benatar dancing on MTV. No,
I can't see it, no,no, all right, So where
are you now? We're there weremy headspace? Yeah, we're talking like
we're now. We're into the nineties. We are, all right, So
where are you in your in yourhead where? After all the Springsteen stuff,

(51:23):
you know, I began to reallytake control of who I was.
I'm sorry. Your daughter's sitting rightnext to me. Yeah. Do they
have any idea what you know ofsome of these stories of you know,
hanging out with Bruce Springsteen and whatthat means. She she was very very

(51:44):
young. She's my youngest, soshe was a little young to remember meeting
Bruce at Fat City. I thinkshe was only three years old or something
at the time. You don't rememberthat three she did. She did come
to Hinds Hall when we did whenBruce was played with us at Hines Hall

(52:05):
for the for the benefit that wedid there in two thousand and five.
That's when you fell asleep on thein the belt. But yeah, so,
but at that time, you know, my my thing was Okay,
here I am. Now, I'myou know, I've got I've got three

(52:25):
kids. You know, I'm working, trying to just keep it all together.
I still I'm a musician. That'swhat I am. No matter what
I do to make money, I'mstill a musician, and I am dependent
on somebody else to do it forme. In other words, I had
to sit around and wait for Joeto call me to say, hey,

(52:47):
we got a gig and we're doingI started getting real, real itchy,
you know, real uh anxiety riddenabout that, you know, because I'm
thinking, man, I just Ihave to take control of this at some
point. You know, I'm asongwriter as well. So after you know,

(53:09):
a few years of trying to figureit all out, I started putting
my own songs together and recording myown work and playing some gigs, and
after a while I could see thatit was it was too much to try
to keep both of those things goingat the same time. And I quit

(53:31):
the house Rockers in two thousand andsix. Was that a smooth transition?
It could have been smoother. Itwasn't that smooth, you know, But
that's just the way it is,you know. It was just I mean,
it was coming, and everybody knewit was coming for quite a while,

(53:52):
and I just I remember my wife. I kept saying, I gotta
go do something. I've got agood something with my music, and she
says, well, when you'll knowthe time. When the time comes,
you'll know it. And it gotto that point where I had to I
had to say, this is enough. What was Joe's reaction, Uh?

(54:16):
Well, his reaction was what canwe do to keep you in the band?
And I said, well, youknow, it's not really I wanted
to say. I tried. Itried to say to him, it's not
has nothing to do with you.It has nothing to do with the band.
There's nothing to do with the music. It's about me breaking off and

(54:37):
going and even if I fall onmy face and don't do anything else in
my life. I have to trythis. I have to concentrate on me,
and uh yeah. So it's ashame that we that that it wasn't
as smooth, you know. Ithink he took it person. I don't

(55:01):
know, you know. And whatI did was, you know, I
put I had to develop myself asa solo artist. So what I did
was I had a van conversion van. This is about ninety two thousand and
six, and I just got ina van and I booked any gig that
I can possibly book around the country. And I went out on my own,

(55:24):
just by myself and played gigs infront of two people, in front
of ten people, did house concerts, did whatever I had to do to
be able to get in front ofpeople with my music with an acoustic guitar
and entertain them for an hour anda half two hours. I had to

(55:45):
be able to develop that, andthat's what I did. How tough was
that, man, I'll tell youwhat it was. It was. It
was hard, but I had somuch ambition that I was able to overcome

(56:05):
any of the fear that I had. And I don't know. It was
hard, but it was also itwas very rewarding when it worked. When
I could sit in front of people. You know, I remember playing even
at like the Rosebud. I rememberplaying acoustic guitar to Rosebud in front of
an audience and making a making thatconnection. When you make that connection with

(56:32):
the audience, all of a sudden, it's like okay, like you know,
I don't know. It's a highthat I can't even explain. And
we've heard that from other musicians aboutthat connection that music provides. It's really
a person a person connection that music'sthe channel for. Yeah, And it's

(56:54):
not easy now to make a connection. I mean, you see so many
musicians, bands, whatever that theythere's no there's no connection. So it
takes it takes inner searching to figureout what it is that you do that
you have that connects with an audience, your presentation, the music itself.

(57:22):
And if you if I write songsthat I think the audience is going to
like, I'm in I'm in trouble. But if I write songs that I
like that I feel good about,that I can dance to that, I
could hoop and holler too. IfI can cry, you know, somebody's

(57:45):
gonna see that. Somebody is gonnaconnect with that, you know, there's
one song, one song that Iwrote. It was it's called the Fourth
of July. It's about my unclewho was killed, uh in the Second
World War. It was killed byCallma Causey pilot and affected my family quite
a bit. I never met him, but I wrote this song about that,

(58:08):
that that moment, that that time. It was the only song I
ever wrote through eyes actually sitting downby myself with tears coming down my eyes.
I'm thinking to myself, good Lord, if that affects me like that,
it has to touch somebody, youknow, And that's how I that's

(58:29):
how I go about doing what Ido. When you play Fourth of July,
have you seen that kind of connection? Oh yeah, oh definitely.
And what's their response? I canactually see people crying. The response is

(58:52):
to me is to you know,you moved me, you know. And
that's the I think the art ofit. You know, that's the that's
the job of the artist. Nomatter what you no matter what, uh
what you're doing, your job isto move emotion. And that could also

(59:21):
mean moving moving somebody's ass too,you know. You know, emotion is
a is a a is something thatyou you know, when you go to
see a painting. If you're lookingat a painting, it has to move
you emotionally somehow. All right,you spend a year, year and a
half on the road and you're aconversion ban. Yeah, what happens next?

(59:45):
Well, I need to do now, I need to make records,
and now I need to have aband. The band that I had Hard
Rain became a lot of the guysfrom the House Rockers, because those are
the guys that I played with,you know, and and so there was

(01:00:05):
some difficulty with that. You know, I said, well, if I
have if I have gigs where Ineed, I need a band. I
mean, you guys, you wantto do that? And yeah, yeah,
but I think there was a lotof tension between Joe and that whole
thing. So it wasn't very longafter that that some of the guys that
I can't I can't do that.So I had to go out and find

(01:00:30):
fine guys. Phil Brons came inand saxophone player, and you know,
yeah, I had a couple ofdifferent bass players and then Tom Bry Tom
Briding on guitar, so you know, we just sort of evolved into what
we are now. Yeah, Imean, and I didn't I was playing

(01:00:54):
still playing a lot of acoustics shows, but not as much now. It
was more band orient and stuff.What's what's your relationship with Joe? Now?
We don't have much of a relationship, which is sad. It really
is sad. I don't really hearfrom them that. So you're you're getting

(01:01:15):
a band together, you're recording.What's your vision for Bill, Tom's and
the Hard Rain? My vision isis to is to go and my vision
is to play show like we didlast week actually is the City City Winery

(01:01:37):
in Pittsburgh, and we had apretty close to sell out and to be
able to to leave people with feelingfeeling more enlightened when they leave than they

(01:02:00):
did when they came, more whetherthat's uh, you know, happiness or
whatever it may be. You know, to feel that that that that I
care enough about what I do thatI want people to feel better about themselves

(01:02:20):
when they leave there. And youknow, like I was telling any earlier,
I mean, I don't take thegigs that I don't want anymore.
I know, I take the gigsthat I think is suitable for what we
do. You know, it usedto be like, you know, if
somebody wants you to play in theback the back alley of some bar somewhere.

(01:02:45):
And you know what I'm just saying, But I don't. I don't
want to do that. No moredifference between have to and want to?
Yeah, yeah, and I andand again. I went through a period
where I was playing music and notworking during the day. So I was
playing music and I was also teachingguitar, and I found myself taking gigs

(01:03:09):
for the money, and taking gigsyou know, okay, we you know,
the agent would call and say,I've I've got a gig in Washington,
d C. And some restaurant.You're going to sit in a corner
with your acoustic guitar and play,but you're gonna make two hundred dollars a
night. Well I had to takeit because you have to pay the bills.

(01:03:30):
But I'm not doing that no more. Right. It is the point
in all our lives. There ain'tno pride when you're trying to make a
living. No, no, I'mworking a steel mill, you know,
I mean for God's sake. Sotell me some of the stories, some
of the highlights, some of thethings that maybe your kids may or may
not know. Some of the thingsI don't tell everything, but tell me

(01:03:53):
some of the stories. Like youknow, when you get you know,
some old friends together, some oldmusicians that you work with, and you
get together and you go, ohremember that, Yeah, what were some
of those? What are what aresome of your go to stories as oh,
oh, I don't know. Uh, some of the craziness that we
did in you know that we gotourselves involved with in Europe, that would

(01:04:16):
be one. But we would doshows like one of the ones, one
of the funny, funny stories thatI always talk about with the House Rockers,
We had a gig. It wasin a community days in the summer,
big communities for Ducane, Ducne communityand it rained storm that day that

(01:04:40):
we were supposed to play, sowe got canceled. So usually what they
would do is they would just payyou half or whatever. Well, this
situation, they wanted us to,you know, reschedule. Well, the
rescheduled date was in the fall ona Friday evening and I think it was
Dukane High School in the auditorium forthe community and something. Well okay,

(01:05:08):
you know, maybe that's there's somethinggoing here. I don't know. So
we got there and you know,at the time we're bringing our own PA
system. We got road crew lights, you know, the whole routine in
this auditorium. And so I said, well, how's it look out there,
and rode the road guys saying,well, it's a little slim,

(01:05:29):
you know. And so we goout there and there's there's maybe twelve a
dozen, maybe twelve kids, nobodyover ten okay, in the community that
they had brought together. And sowe start playing and I had to turn

(01:05:56):
my back as I was laughing sohard. And we got I think we
got through two songs, and theguy found and oh after the first.
The funny thing was after the firstsong was done, and I'll never forget
we played oh man with the song. I can't warn the name of the
song we played it, but Ican visualize it. And I turned my

(01:06:16):
back after the song was over tolook at the audience and there was like
three kids left and they're sitting inthe city, like right in the front
in the auditorium, and their legsare swinging, you know, the legs
are swinging like this, and I'mthinking, and finally the guys says,

(01:06:38):
you know, you guys can we'llpay you? And what what I realized
was that those three kids were hiskids. They couldn't leave anywhere. They
were stuck there. All right,what do you what's the future? What

(01:07:01):
do you what do you want totackle? What do you want? Like
we were talking, how do yourelease record? How do you release songs?
Now? So we released a couple. We just released a new single
last week, YEP, and releasedone last year. And I've got a
lot of songs that I've got recorded, and we're just finishing up a lot
of songs. So I'm thinking,you know, maybe at the end of

(01:07:23):
the year we can release a fulllength album and just go from that.
I don't have any plans anymore,you know, I don't. I just
how do you release songs these days? Well, that's that's the big thing,
you know. It used to beyou put out, you know,
you record a record, you makea red, go out and play them.
And nowadays people get their music differently. So yeah, it's it's it's

(01:07:48):
it's streaming, you know, it'sit's who's your fans who? What's your
fan base? My fan base isa little older, obviously, they're you
know, anywhere from forty to eightymostly probably around sixty fifty sixty and they
want to hold something in their hand, they want to look at something,

(01:08:10):
you know. They they don't theydon't stream as like young kids do.
They don't even buy records like youngkids do, which is weird. Vinyl
is a big thing with young youngpeople. But the older folks, man,
they just like they like a CD, you know, and so it's
it's harder to try to figure out, you know, how to get the

(01:08:32):
music into their homes. So whatare you doing? Well, we're going
with what everybody else seems to bedoing. We're releasing singles and you know,
on all the streaming digital streaming services. And you know, then right
now, I got some live stuffthat we've been recording live just kind of

(01:08:57):
putting it together. I might Imight like least some live just at the
at shows and live live material andthen put together an album, you know,
and see what happens. But youknow, who does all that stuff,
the releasing, the writing, therecording. Is that all you?
Is? It? Do you have? That's me? Is that kind of

(01:09:20):
a daunting task? It is it'sjust like you know, to be to
get involved in social media, it'sjust like overwhelming, it is. I
can't do everything I learned. Yeah, yeah, I learned a lot a
lot of years ago that if Idon't do it, if I rely on
somebody else to do it, thechances are it won't get done, or

(01:09:40):
it won't get done the way Iwant it to get done. I don't
know what that makes me control freakor something. But and I do have
people that help, you know,there's I mean guys in the band.
I have a manager friend of minewho does some management work and you know
it, gets a couple of gigsand helps me schedule things like recordings and

(01:10:04):
stuff. But but in Phil hedoes Phil Brawn's my friend's saxophone player.
He does a lot of the roadmanagement work, you know, sets that
stuff up on the road and hotelsand all that. So I have I
have help. My wife does themerchandise. But when it comes to like

(01:10:25):
you know, the social media,when it comes to the writing, getting
the gigs, figuring out you know, recording sessions and who's going to play
and when we're going to get togetherto rehearse, and that's all me.
Do you still enjoy it? Ilove, I love to play. But

(01:10:45):
you know, again, you getup into your sixties and you start to
you're not is the energy leveloys,And like my energy level was is great.
I still when I play live,I still feel in my head,
I still feel like I'm twenty five. But the other stuff, the business
side of it, is where Istart to get you know, yeah,

(01:11:10):
I don't want to do that today. So what do you enjoy most about
what you do? Is it thewriting? Is it recording? Is it
performing? Is it Jordy, I'lltell you what. Yeah, what I
think what I like is the processof taking something that's not there, writing,

(01:11:31):
recording it, and presenting it,you know, in live or on
the record. I love that process. I love that. I hate the
business side of all that stuff,but I love that process. Like I
could not be in a top fortyband. I wouldn't, you know.
And not to say there's anything wrongwith that, or a tribute band or

(01:11:54):
anything like that, but it's justnot I don't get that satisfaction to put
something together. The process of releasingsomething that wasn't there to begin with,
That to me is creative process.Yeah. Yeah, so the creative process,
the whole thing is Yes, whatgets you off? Yes, that's

(01:12:15):
exactly what gets me off. Yeah, coming up with the idea, right,
putting it down on paper, puttingmusic to it, recording, performing,
and then have that connection, thatwhole process, that whole line,
right, Yeah, Is there anythinglike it? I haven't come up with
that yet. I haven't figured thatout. If there's anything like that,

(01:12:38):
I you know, and it youknow it. It saved my life.
I don't know what I would dowithout it, you know, without being
creative. How many people get thechance to do that what you just said,
that whole line, I don't thinka whole lot. I don't think.

(01:13:00):
In my last single, the singlethat I released last week, is
called I Fulfilled My Dream, andthat's exactly what it's about. You know,
it's not about you know, Ifulfilled my I remember my wife when
we first started going together, shehad a daughter. I have a step
daughter who was three years old.And when we first started going together,

(01:13:25):
I mean at the time, beforewe started going together, I had no
desire to be married. I meanI was a guitar was my thing,
you know, that's all I careda buy. But you know my wife,
you know, my girlfriend at thetime, she lit me up a
little bit and I thought, well, okay, I can do this,
you know. And I remember askingmy father. I said, you know,

(01:13:48):
I really really love this girl andI love love her daughter, I
love the three of us. Ilove the family thing, you know.
But I but I want to bea musician. And my father said,
well, whatever you want, yougot to work for it. And he

(01:14:09):
says, if you want two things, you just work double that. So
that's that's the attitude I always took. You know. Tell me about the
song, a new single, Well, yeah, it's called I I Fulfill
My Dream and it's uh, it'sit's it's a song that you know that

(01:14:30):
took many forms until it came up, until I was able to to do
what I did with it. Andand a lot of it is Rick Wakowski.
He's my producer and he he helpedme to do with some of the
arrangements on it. But it's it'sthat's what it's about. It's it's about
seeing the world. It's about comingback. And you know, you you

(01:14:55):
you know, you ask, youask the maker, you know, the
big chief up in the sky.You know, Hey, you know,
I wanted to be a musician.That's all I wanted to do. I
want to be a musician. Ididn't say nothing about big houses, didn't
say nothing about trying to make yourcar payment every month, and you know
that that was never the thing.It just make I just want to play

(01:15:17):
music, and I fulfilled that,and that's what that song is about.
My granddaddy said, you can haveanything you want, you just can't have
everything you want. What's your legacy? I don't know make I would hope
that it's my legacy is a goodfather, good husband, good friend,

(01:15:43):
and I make people happy with mymusic.