Joe Grushecky: Houserocker, Authentic, Honest, & Pittsburgh Icon

Joe Grushecky is a Pittsburgh-born rock singer-songwriter known for gritty, blue-collar anthems with his band The Houserockers. A longtime collaborator with Bruce Springsteen, Joe’s music blends heartland rock with honest storytelling. A true working-class hero in and out of the studio.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I know that this is an ovidiot. Annie you are oh,
bless your heart.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
This is the Cold podcast chronicle in Pittsburgh's music scene,
and welcome in. I'm Johnny Hartwell your host with Annie
Pugar how you know? And we've got Pittsburgh Rock Royal.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Times, Joe Gris Ladies and.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Joe.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
How are you? Joe?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm great?

Speaker 1 (00:33):
All right?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Well, so uh usually we start like at the beginning,
like when you first started to you know, discover music.
But let's talk about what you have going on now
right now?

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Well, we uh signed with Omnivore Records UH and put
out uh an anthology called hosh Rocker Last Last Summer,
Last Spring, and thirty six three maaster tracks, the booklets,
the whole nine yards. I mean probably if I was

(01:05):
to say, you know, you want to find out what
Joe Gersheky and the House Rockers are all about or
the Iron City House Rockers, that would be the.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
That's what item to buy.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
And then we put out a new record called Cannot
Run a Memory last Summer that was one of our
best records of all time, I do believe, and we're
working on new stuff now. We got a single coming
out in a couple of weeks, we're going to play
in New Jersey at the Wonder Bar in Asbury Park.
Or We've been playing Asbury in the Jersey Shore for

(01:36):
you know, twenty odd years in the summer. This is
our summer excursion we usually and I did the Light
of Day there in January. That's for Parkston's. I'm on
the board of the Light of Day since since its inception,
we did twenty five years. Last year Bruce joined us.
We've raised over eight million dollars for Parkers.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Who's this, Bruce, you'r time guy from New Jersey, Jersey Jersey.
We'll talk about that.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Speaking of Brucey just put out a box set h
seven albums, CDs and on the rock uh CD called
Perfect World.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
We have a three three co writes that Bruce and
I did. Has he ever co written with anybody else? Infrequently? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
You know that that you were like the only one
that he would write with.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Well, yeah, I mean we we did a record together
in ninety five and got to be pretty good friends
while we were doing that project. And uh we wrote
two songs for that project and it was just really
easy to do and comfortable, and you know, we were
such good friends. It's it's sort of a no brainer
for us to write together.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
You know, he's putting out records that he hasn't released
in a long long time. Does he ever share some
of those songs that never got released with you ever?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, when you know, like I said, when I go
to New Jersey and if he's home and I'm you know,
fortunate enough to hang out with him for a while,
I've heard a lot of stuff that probably nobody else
has heard. And when we were doing American Babylon, we
were together all the time. I heard a bunch of
that stuff that's on the box set that you know

(03:25):
he's keeping under lock and key for years. But he's
quite prolific, so you know there's still some stuff I
think left in the vault.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, we're not talking Bruce Springsteen, we're talking Joe today. Good,
So take me back. What's your what's your earliest music
memory did you have? Did your family members play music?

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, Well, my dad was a professional musician for a
while before World War Two. Uh, he was in Uh.
My dad was was able to play almost anything you
put in front of him. So my house was full
of guitars and bay and fiddles and mandolins and saxophones
and accordions, and he just loved all types of music,

(04:10):
especially country, Western, old time country and western. He liked
the Jimmy Rogers stuff pre you.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Know, well it's.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Three rock and roll. And so there was always music
going on in our house. And my mother had a
beautiful voice. She sang, and she was into real ethnic music.
She was into Tamba Richons, local Tamba Ritsons for a while.
So there was always music going around. And then I
had an uncle who was sort of a Phonsie type,

(04:39):
you know, with the slick back hair and everything, and
he played rock and roll no stop. And I can
remember when I was a little kid, you know, I
was we were surrounded by music, but that music was it.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
It hit me a different way.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
So, you know, grew up music everywhere, loved almost everything
and uh but really the rock and rolls just stuck
with me. And then, of course, uh, you know, when
the Beatles hit, you know, that was it, you know
you most of the guys in my neighborhood wanted to
be part of that somehow. So everybody got instruments and

(05:15):
started then and I haven't stopped.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
So what was the first instrument you picked up.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Well, I there was a clarinet around the house. I
played that for a while, and I banged around on
guitar and nothing really serious, saxophone a little bit. I mean,
anything that made noise because my dad had, you know,
anything I wanted to play with.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
The guitar was the first thing in bands. Your father, Yeah, yeah,
he was.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
He actually had a a radio show when everybody played
live before World War two, you know when people go
to the studios. Well, when I grew up, AM radio
was big in Pitchburgh. You know, every every little town
had their own AM station. So he had he had
a band. They were called the Happy Serenaders and they

(06:07):
played the old time country western.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
And he did that.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Then he played in a band after World War two.
He was he was a wounded veteran World War two.
But after the war for a while he played in
a swing band. And I saw him do one gig
when I was growing up that I could remember. But he,
you know, he sort of gave it up the you know,
the raise of family.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So, and did any of that music speak to you
or you just went to it?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, you know, and in those days, you know, the
generation gap was maybe a little bit wider than it
is now. And uh, I mean I listened to it.
I can't say I hated it, but I didn't want to,
you know, particularly I like most of it.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Okay that way, all right, you probably appreciate it now.
I appreciate it when I always have to play more
of it now.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
So what what?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
What were you listening to? What radio stations? What music
were you buying when you were a kid. Do you
remember the first record that you ever bought.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
I can remember buying Louis Louis at that a kmart
actually on Rod thirty and Ort and uh, I come
in and and uh that's the days where they let
you play the record in the store. And a bunch
of kids were playing that and dancing in the store,

(07:31):
and I said, oh man, what is that? I got
to have that.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
So that's the first one I bought.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Now, you know, I bought Joey D in the Star
Lighters because it was Joey Joey D. And Grisheky was
always a mouthful for people, so they always call me
Joey G.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Joey G. So you know, Joey D.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
I bought that, and then uh, you know, just all
whatever whatever was popular Top forty and then plus they
were playing all the obscure stuff on the Pittsburgh Radio
a m all over through all over western Pennsylvania. They
would start on Friday night about six pm. They go

(08:11):
to Sunday uh at New at midnight on on Saturday
night Boom. It was done because of the Blue Loss
and things right right here. So they would play all
this really obscure rock and roll, and then the team clubs,
especially we go to the Red Rooster in Greensburg and UH,

(08:36):
the the one in McKee Sports, the White Elephant and UH.
I would see all these bands from every everything from
Mitch Ryder and Detroit Wills, which is one of the
best bands I've ever seen to this day, uh Sam
and Sham and the Pharaohs, and bo Didley multiple times,

(08:57):
Wilson Pickett, Smokey Robinson, Junior Walker. So I would see
these these guys every weekend and then get down front
and you watch what the guitar player was doing.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
And so you would pick them.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Plus and then plus, you know on Top forty here
the Beatles and the Stones and Stacks and Motowns and
so it was just very very rich, uh, very rich
and and uh years later than with the Iron City
House Rockers, I did a record with Steve Cropper of
the Stacks Records, Records producer guitar player called Blood the

(09:32):
Bricks that we just reissued on Omnivore a couple of
months ago.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Steve Cropper just unders understated always, you know, for like
Otis Redding, and.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Otis was his best buddy. We're talking to Bay midnight hour.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
And that those those guitars were just it wasn't flashy,
it was he was singing. He was playing for that
song in the pocket, very funky, very soulful.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, I love Stacks. Yeah, So he came to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Actually he hung out with us for about ten days
when we're doing pre production on that record. And the
first couple of days he was here, I was so nervous.
I could barely play guitar in front of him because
he was you know, he was just I idolized the
guy and still do.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And Uh.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
It was just a tremendous musician, very easy to work
with them. And it really was like going to school,
going to college working with him.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, yeah, I've got You've got a long list of
people that you've worked.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, I've been very fortunate to work with a lot
of talented people.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
We'll get into those. We'll get into those, but let's
let's continue that that early beginning. So when did you
pick up the guitar? You do you remember your first band?

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, I can't remember the name of it, but I
remember I played it. My first gig was at Westbourne
City fire Hall and I played.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
How much money did you make?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Probably nothing? I played Wooly Bully. I sang Wooly Bully
and uh Gloria my first two songs I sang out.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Live that's awesome And you remember that.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I remember You'll can play them and sing them.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah? Were you once you did that? Were you hooked?

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh yeah I was. Yeah. Yeah, that was it? That
was the big bang? So what what? What attracted to? What?
What made you? There's just just something about you know,
live music. You know.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
I just did a Dylan tribute not too long ago
with Billy Price, and uh, I always remember this Dylan quote.
He says music is truth and uh, he says, and
it attracts the angels of the universe. There's something mystical
about music, you know, especially writing your own music. Because

(11:55):
you know, I just gave you that record that that
didn't exist for years ago, none of it.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, and somehow floated down. It's like Michaelangelo from you know,
Sphear and landed in my brain and right, and then
it manifests itself. It's just like carving a perfect sculpture.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes, that's what it is. It's something.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
There's there's magic in it. And it is a universal language.
And I always tell people like, how many times can
you watch the same movie? How many times can you
read the same book. But if you love a song,
you can listen over over over it and it evokes
memories and uh feelings and you know, things that that

(12:41):
are immediate and visceral. You can feel it and uh
a lot of times. You know, the great people, the
great poets that are in rock and roll, in the
country and blues and all it, they say stuff that
you wish you just said. And when you listen to
that song, particular song in that lyric, you dig into

(13:02):
it and man, you start thinking, I wish I'd have
said that, or he's talking about me, or you know,
this is where I was when you know, I danced
my first time with my wife for my kiss, my
first girlfriend, or you know, uh, when the Steelers won,
when the first super Boy. You know, it evokes stuff

(13:23):
that that it's immediate.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
You mentioned Bruce as being prolific, and you've you've written
quite a few songs. So when do you remember the
first song you wrote?

Speaker 3 (13:35):
No? I don't, but uh, you know I was writing
right from the beginning, Okay, probably because I wasn't proficient
enough to copy stuff. You know, I was never a
great copier of music, so I always from from day one,
I was writing my own songs. And plus, you know,
the Beatles and the Stones laid the blueprint, you know. Uh,

(14:01):
you know they played covers, uh you know that were
easily relatable to but you know they were able to
take take the lessons they learned from those songs and
create something on their own. So I always sort of
looked at that as a bootprint. I'm a song guy,

(14:21):
you know, I love songs. That's that's my whole stick,
you know, song and dance, and uh, well I collects
songs I like for you.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
I mean, that really kind of made you different than
maybe other Pittsburgh performers, is that you were able to
write songs and music.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Right and.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
We were very persistent and consistent about it, and uh,
I always found out once I got really serious about
writing that Pittsburgh was sort of an inspiration my family,
that the city, uh, my friends, you know, what was
going on in the world around me became my inspiration

(15:04):
for a lot a lot of my songs. And uh,
you know, I wasn't writing about a fantasy life out
in Melibuse somewhere. I was writing about, you know, what's
going on in uh Lawrenceville.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Well with a name like Forsheky, Yeah, I mean it's
it's a name Pittsburgh in law right.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Well.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
When we signed our first record deal, we were recording
Steve Popovich, Oh yeah, Cleveland from Cleveland. Yeah, he signed
Meatloaf and he signed us, and uh, Steve, after our
first session, he he really wanted me to change our name.
We were called the brick Alley Band. Brick Alley being

(15:44):
a red light district, underground red light district in Mckethport.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
That was quite notorious. You know.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
They used to ask my mom our friends, what's the
name of your son's bands. Oh, I can't remember, I remember,
but uh changes. She was thrilled Steve changed our name.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Actually, to Uh.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
We went in and recorded, and he said, I hate
that name. You know, I'm going to change it. And uh,
he said, you got a couple of days to come
up with the name. He wanted me to drop Grosheky too,
and uh, so we came up with the House Rockers.
And years later I found out that Steve van zandt
uh from Southside Johnny and Bruce's band, He was working

(16:29):
with Steve Popovich at the time, and uh, they were
going for that regional thing, and so uh Steve suggested
that Steve van Zant suggested Iron City. So we became
the Iron City House Rockers. And Uh, I just couldn't,
you know, conceived to call myself anything other than Gky.
It just didn't feel, you know. At various times in

(16:52):
my life, I've used Joey g just because Gky gets.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Outside of Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
Oh my god, Steve, he said, said, Hey, they'll never
be able to pronounce that in Alabama.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Well that's true, that's true, you know, well, you know,
working in radio, Believe me, all of my friends have
used different, various names. And I honestly, I couldn't remember
if I changed my name. You know, if you were
going about you know, well, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
We're uh.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Trying to be authentic. You know what our music is authentic.
We were shooting to be authentic, and you know, how
could you write authentic music if you have a fake name?

Speaker 1 (17:35):
It's true. I agree, I agree.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
I would think of that when when I was going
through the process, but I couldn't come up with anything.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Which is funny, because I live north of Pittsburgh, I
was more affiliated with Youngstown and Cleveland radio, to be
honest with you, and so I remember you getting quite
a bit of airplay out of out of Ohio. So
it's actually the first the first time I ever saw you.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
You were on solid Gold. Solid Gold we had do
you remember solid Gold? We had to pick it of
the week.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's uh, that's the record we did
with Steve Cropper. We hade a song called Friday Night.
And unfortunately, at that time, the whole Cleveland entertainment thing
with you know, they had Meatloaf. Meatloaf was their big gun,
and uh, they were having all kinds of internal promised

(18:30):
falling up bad out of hell, and it sort of,
you know, it was sort of a you know, they
just led us by the Wayside, and uh, after Steve Popovich,
you know sort of I don't want to say lost
interest in us, but you know, he wasn't as active
in our career as we had hoped he would be,

(18:53):
and uh, we started to go downhill after that. So
we did have to pick Here of the Week on
Solid Golden was quite thrilling.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
I remember, I remember that.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I was like, you know, there's a certain amount of
Western Pa pride to see somebody from Pittsburgh on a
syndicated show that's national.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Well, they are city house rockers. We were.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
We couldn't have been more critically acclaimed. I remember Rolling
Stone called us, you know, called couple of our albumst
Record of a Year, and you know, people just you know,
raved about the music we were making in those states.
And we were sort of an odd fit because we're

(19:37):
people are always saying you're too to this, and you know,
we're too bluesy for mainstream rock. We're too rock for blues.
You know, we're too too gritty for pop. You know,
we're always too something that we never sort of fit
in a convenient slot. The music you know sort of

(20:00):
get you know, what was happening in those days, and uh,
we just never broke through that a single that that
you know, changed our career.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves, okay, so tell me
about what was the You know, you don't remember the
first band's name, but do you remember earlier, you know,
developing different bands.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Is that happening?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah, you know, then they would last as long as
you'd like them. The last short, you know, we get
together with a bunch of guys and play for a
couple of months, and we did. Uh, there was a
Methodist church in Irwin. I grew up out in Irwin,
and that was a semi steady gig. Would would play
there every couple of months, and different dances around town

(20:44):
and and uh, we didn't play these things called swans.
The Swans was a dance at a swimming pool, right,
So we did those and uh, I remember one band
we had that we were in this guy's he was
a little bit more well off his family than the

(21:06):
rest of us. And they had a nice game room.
And we were doing My Generation by the who we
were working on it, and we were in the feedback part
and you know, we're you know, pretending we're Pete Townsend
and breaking up equipment and all of a sudden, electricity
is off and oh what happened? We blew a fuse

(21:27):
and turned around. It was our guitar player's father and
he said get out. He threw us out of the house,
and uh, that was the end of that band. And
shortly after that, I went to college and I went
to Harvard on them on as let you stay here
in Pittsburgh, kel State in Lumon Valley and lo and behold.

(21:51):
I was not allowed to have a guitar in the
dorm for a while, so I gave up playing. I
tried to come home on weekends with most of the
guys that that I had hooked up with had drifted
away to other parts of the country. And this is
during the height of the Vietnam War, so you know,
nobody stayed at home for long, just stayed at home.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
They were in the army.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
You know, people drifted off to college. And it took
me a couple of years to get get back into playing,
and I talked about it on this new record song
here in sixty eight. In nineteen sixty eight, I went
to Atlantic City. I spent the summer in Atlantic City
and decided that I was going to start playing again,

(22:34):
and I bought a telecaster at a pawnshop, you know,
paid weekly payments on it, and my first Telly and
I got back to school and I started this band.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Called Shoe s h with three us.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
We were that was Shoe because we were a trio
the oh for all three of us, and we were
we were pretty good regional band. And and this is
at the time where the James Gang were, you know,
three piece Jones were a real big and they were

(23:09):
sort of like the top of the heap. And there
was a uh Phil Keggy with glass Harp Young's time band, right,
remember it, and uh Don and Morgan Tan was a
band called Elderberry Jack.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
They were really good. And so we were in that
mold three piece band.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Actually had a audition with our CA records, which we
sort of blew. What happened, Well, the guy didn't show
up for a couple of hours and and you know
there was no cell phones and stuff in those days,
and you know we're out and you know kell U
which is you know, could have been Transylvania for all

(23:47):
he and uh so the guys want to.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Go to the wrong California.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, well probably, but the guys wandered off, and you know,
it was just hard to get him back together and
and uh, you know, he never came back.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
So was that that first time you flirted with record?
First time?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Yeah, first time, and then after I graduated, you know,
I would I knew I wanted to play, but it
could never really get anybody interested in playing original music
in Pittsburgh. There was there was tons of places to play,

(24:26):
so if you had a band, you could play, but
it was it was still like a music union town.
So basically people were playing four sets a night, ten
to ten, forty twenty minute break eleven. You know, that
was that was the stick everybody was doing. And Art
Ardini came to me one night we were playing. I

(24:48):
was playing at a bar in the Southside called the
Witch Barker Club, and it was an after ours joint,
so we we wouldn't start playing at two o'clock in
the morning. We played two to five and we had
to do two sets, and you know, I was playing
a lot of rhythm.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
And blues, like everything from lou Reed and.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Muddy Waters and Rolling Stones, nothing top forty. And he
said we'd like to get a band together. Art and
I had played together in high school and I said, yeah,
but I'm done with this, you know, this cover of stuff.
Let's make a record and he said, yeah, that's what
I wanted to do. So I rented a home in

(25:29):
Mount Washington and we were we were as serious as
a heart attack about getting a record deal. So we
would practice almost every night of the week, you know,
five nights a week. And we did that for a
year before we even tried to work anywhere. And finally
we decided to get out of my basement and tried
to get a job. We had two nights book to

(25:51):
a place in Braddock. That's how long ago it was.
Brad Ack still had people going hot at night. And
we were horrible. We were horrible cover band, just awful,
you know. We just we couldn't play the music of
the era, uh with any authority, and we didn't want
to to begin with.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
And we were just terrible.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
And so we decided, after that experience, uh, let's rethink
what we're going to do. So we went to a
place on right outside the Liberty Tubes. It's called the Gazebo.
Uh Marty Pisano owned it, and UH we talked. I
guess he wasn't doing that well, we talked Marty into
letting us play there and doing whatever we wanted to do,

(26:36):
and Marty said sure. So so we we're do one set,
you know, and we do all this, you know, like
the stuff we were doing before. We try to be
a cover band, which is you know, like lou Reid
and Rolling Stones and some Jay Giles and that that,
you know, that kind of stuff, and uh, a lot
of blues, a lot of blues, rhythm and blues. Nothing

(27:00):
that was on the top forty at the time. And
the second set we would do originals and lo and
behold we caught on and you know, there's a scene
started to build up around us. And Marty sold the
place and we had to find a new home.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
So we went to the Decade over in Oakland. Yeah,
and I remember that.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
We talked talked him into letting us have a night
at the Decade and immediately hit it off there. So
we were playing like every Thursday night for a couple
of years probably, and a lot of Saturdays too. A
lot of times we would play Thursday and Saturday constantly,
and in the meantime we were making demos and we

(27:48):
got a call from Steve Popovich one night when I
was heading not we had a two night stand somewhere
and Friday and Saturday Thursday in West Virginia and uh, Steve,
Steve liked what he heard. I had sent him a
demo because they put out Sagobye to Hollywood, uh with

(28:10):
Ronnie Spector and she was you know who didn't love
Ronnie Spector? Right, Billy Joel song Steve van Zandt produced
at Ea Street Band played on it, Uh, the big
two page spread and Billboard magazine and Steve invited us
to Cleveland on Sunday. They said, come on up, I'm

(28:32):
having a little get together, you know, come on up,
like to meet you. So a couple of guys in
the band we made it to Cleveland and Steve's house without.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
You know, Google maps.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, yeah, somehow miraculously you have to use roadmaps.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Roadmap and uh, knock on the door and Ronnie Spector
answers the door for resting purple bikini over right there,
and she said, you know, Steve will be right here.
So we went around back. He had a little pool,
you know, modest hospital. They had a pull in the back,

(29:11):
and uh, you know, a short while later, tour bus
pulls up and it's Steve and various members is of
the Asberry Jukes and Boss Skags. We had hit the
number one song in the country with Silk Degrees at
the time. So we're sitting at this party and you know,
we're sort of like the outsiders, of course, and Steve

(29:33):
throws on our demo tape and we were plays it
for everybody, plays it for everybody, and I was cringing
because you know, it's a demo tape from you know,
a not so great studio here in Pittsburgh. And Boss
Gags comes over and he said, oh, this is great.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
You gotta let Steve take care of you.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
So we met with Steve, and I always like to
say that he sent us back to Pittsburgh with a
pocket full of hope. So you find asked us UH
to go and do some more recording, do some originals.
UH gave us some covers to do, and he had
played in a band UH with this guy Lee Diamond

(30:15):
from UH. They were on the Pittsburgh Sound. They had
a song called Mamalucci and UH Porky chedwell could play
it all the time. And Steve says said to me,
he said, hey, you ever hear Mamalucci. Oh yeah, I
know Mamalucci and he both fell over because I was
probably the only guy in United States song and you know,

(30:38):
so we recorded Mamalucci, I still got the and sent
it all back to him and he liked it. You know.
We recorded some more demos and eventually his company was
a production company. Uh, and he signed us to Cleveland
or no, he said, we were signed to Cleveland, but then
they released us on MC.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
A record, right right, and you worked as that's the
first time you met Steve, little Stevie.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, not little Steve stop, okay.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
But you all right, so you get assigned to a
major label, right, that's got to be what was that was?

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Because that was dream come true? Because that was very
hard to do. There was not the d ui I think,
you know, to do it yourself for home recording. I mean,
if you made a home recording, it sucked, you know,
it's terrible. So even the studios in Pittsburgh were not
you know, up the stuff at those days. And you know,

(31:36):
I think it was maybe one band that Diamond Rio
had had had a record out, uh, you know, one label.
It might have been a Oh man, I can't even
I can't remember what it was. But but they were
sort of as close you got to major label and
they sort of imploded. So there was nobody really to

(32:02):
look at to say, hey, you know, we want to
There wasn't a blueprint. No, there wasn't a blueprint, so
we made it up as we went along.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
So where did you end up recording that first record?

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Well, we recorded at the Agency in it was above
the a Gora.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
You know I do, yeah, and there many many times. Yeah,
in fact, I probably I'm trying to remember that was
a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Because the a Gora was a place where I used
to live.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, yeah, you know I saw, Well, we opened for
a bunch of people to go. We opened for Ian Hunter,
We opened for Patty Smith, uh when she had because
the night out we opened for Meatloaf. I think I
saw Tom Petty opened for Meatloaft at the Gore. Really
before you know, every knew who before ever heard of

(32:50):
Tom Petty and but uh at this time, as we
were uh getting more involved with Cleveland Entertainment and Steve Popovich,
we were actually became almost the hostped at the decade.
So we would record, we would play all night Thursday night.

(33:14):
And this is when you played at two o'clock in
the morning, right and get up the next morning and
drive to Cleveland and record on Friday, wow through the day.
Then sometimes drive back and usually sometimes we drive back
and played Friday night, but usually we took Friday off.
Then we recorded Saturday, I mean record on Friday and

(33:36):
just one day at a time. Then we play Saturday
at the decade again. And we did our whole first
album just one day at a time until right at
the end when they decided we had a mix and
and all this kind of stuff, and decided we were
going to redoce some of the mixes, and so so

(34:02):
I went to the House of Music in West Orange,
New Jersey and stayed there for a couple of days
and did some overdubs, guitar overdubs and some singing.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
And who produced that record, who produced that first.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Round, Steve Popovich and Marty Mooney. They called themselves the
Slimmer Twins because they were beggar boys, big guys. Yeah,
And it was a play on the Glimmer Twins by
the Stones, And they would buy as far as unglamorous.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
From the Stones as you forget.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
And uh so it was not they made meat loaf looks.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Almost and.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
So Steve did bring Steve Povis to bring Steve van
z Aunt to see us at the gazebo, and uh
so we had this record come out. This this is
sort of a funny story, but uh uh we had
the record come out, and un dok to Sylvia from

(35:03):
the decade was just catching on that how popular his
club could be if he did rock and roll all
the time. And we were packing him in and DV
decides that they're having a big bash to announce that
our record was coming out in May, and uh it

(35:26):
was during the hell sometime in October, and you couldn't
get into place, and they were afraid. I guess Dominic
was afraid that, you know, the uh shut down because
of you know, overcrowding and uh.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, those are problems.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yeah, so anyways, he was a nervous wreck for some reason.
And the dressing room in those days was the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I was going to say, it's not big, it's not big, And.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
The kitchen's you know, from me to you why and
one side sinks, on the other side pots and pans,
dirty pots and pans, and you know, it's it's maybe
thirty feet long at the most, probably not even that
twenty feet long. And Steve Popovich brings meat Loaf there,

(36:20):
and Meatloaf takes up after room, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
The sage the stage in the decade wasn't that bad?
Not at the time. No, it was very small.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
They expanded it after a while, but because because the
crowds were too big, they they made everything a little
bit bigger. And Dominic comes in and people were staying
shoulders shoulder in the you know, this dressing room slash kitchen,
and for some reason he has a melt down and

(36:51):
he starts get these people out there, and get these people.
And I got dom I said, this is meatloaf dom.
You know, this is meat Loaf. He had the number
one record in the country at the time. And he goes,
I don't give a whether he's in Linguinian clamsaws, get
him out of here. And he throws almost literally throws

(37:14):
Meatloaf out of the the kitchen and the record company
goes ot the door with him, and they.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Never but that's that's such a Pittsburgh thing.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Do you think you are right?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Obviously we never did any more record releases in the decade.
Even that our homecome term because they were so pissed
off that, you know, that whole thing happened. But then
then you know, a couple of weeks later we went
back to play the decade Dominic had a poster on
the wall said, appearing here metaf so he finally caught

(38:02):
makes some money.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
That's also Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
So all right, you have this build up, you're you're
signed to a label, you got this record, you're really
you know, we mentioned the solid Gold so things really
were set up for for for success, and but you
kind of talked about your music was not. You were

(38:27):
way ahead of your game, you know when you talk about,
you know, a regional kind of band sound, you know
you had, you had a sound, but it was really
hard to pigeonhole what you guys were, so tell us
that what happened, Well, it just.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Never gone on radio. You know, we never had that
definding song, you know that that everybody played all over
the country. And and we didn't do any big tours.
You know, we liked the club tours, so we should
have probably, you know, maybe got a different agent. We

(39:13):
had the same agent as Ozzy Osbourne and Chris Christofferson
and us. So, I mean so it was like, you know,
they weren't doing the big club club tourre We went
out with Ozzy one time and lasted one gig and
almost got killed. They threw some of my stuff out us.
It just wasn't a fit and uh so we just,

(39:33):
you know, we just we just weren't firing on all cylinders,
you know, we just and then Steve Popovich, Uh they
became embroled in all this infighting over meatloaf and they
never did recover from it.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Cleveland International, Cleveland Entertainment.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
So we were sort of drifted away on our own,
and uh, you know, we had no management. You know,
we had a decent agent, and you know, just we
just never could get on radio and never you know,
not firing on all cylinders. We didn't have that strong

(40:12):
manager who could pull strange for us like Steve did
with the first couple of records. Steve after the second record,
which was wildly critically acclaimed, you know, we just never
had the team that we had when we first started.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
All right, Well, on the on the second record, tell
us about you know, some of the people you work
with on.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
The second record, Uh, I think the first record was
so critically acclaimed. I think it surprised everybody. So the
second record, we went to New York and we're actually
going to rehearse for the record and then go and
record in Media Sound in the Middle Manhattan. Was just

(40:56):
way different from the first record because I said, you know,
we never rehearsed. We just played our stage show. We
you know, we just we were practice in my house
in my Washington to go play them at the Decade,
and the songs that worked with the crowd, that's what
ones would we ended up recording. And Steve Popovitch and

(41:17):
Marty Mooney, who were the Slimmer Twins, uh loved music.
Great guys, but they couldn't translate any of their ideas musically.
They weren't musicians per se. They could say, hey, you
got to change the chorus, or you know, instead of
playing a chord here, you know, maybe tried G chords.

(41:38):
You know, they just didn't.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Have have they didn't have to accumate it. They didn't
have it.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
And so the second record, and plus you know, our
first record come out in May. By February, we were
going to record the second record, so you know, I
had to do some crazy writing and then come up
in Uh. Uh you know that was that's not a
very long time period. You know. We went out and

(42:04):
played for a while and uh and then we were
right in to do the second record. So we showed
up uh at a S I R. Studios in Manhattan
to record and Steve Popovich comes in and he sort
of gave the reins to Mick Ronson. He shows up
with Mick Ronson. So Mick was uh Spider from Mars

(42:26):
right with David and at that time he was playing
with Ian Hunter the Hunter Ronson thing okay, and Steve
had recently.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Signed I.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
And so he comes in with mc Ronson make records
of us for Burst, rehearses us for a day or
two and uh, you know, we had a buyout, so
we were there all day, uh, starting in the morning
and take a little lunch break and then go back
in the afternoon. And two or three days in and
Steve Popovich then shows up with Steve van ZANDT. So

(43:01):
both of Steve van ZANDT and uh, Mick Ronson were
working with us. So Steve would you know, do a
song and then Ronson would come in and hear and
do it, do it differently. And or or Ronson do
the song first and Steve would come in and do
it differently.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
And both incredible talents.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
Both incredible talents, really really incredible talents.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
And but stylistically very oh yes, as far as well,
you know, we had have songs old Man bar and
Junior's Bar on have a Good Time to get Out Alive,
and one of them is uh, Steve Van Zant's version
and the other one is Mick Ronson's version, and there
is different as night and Day.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
And we used both of them on that record. Uh,
but you know it, let it left us with we
had to choose between one version or another version. And
then about halfway through Steve van Zant he was working
with Bruce during the River down the street, so he
he you know, he just didn't want to hang anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
So this is talking like this is like nineteen.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
All right, and then he went to it was it
was right around a time where the Miracle on ice.
That's how I remember that my touch point for them those.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Days Olympic hockey.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
So we were in New York City and recording this record,
and Steve bought out to work with Bruce on the
on the river. And then when he bought out. Ian
Hunter came on board, Ian landed producing and arranging two songs,

(44:46):
but on on the record itself when the record came
out and said it produced by Mick Ronson and the
Slimmer Twins, but Steve van Zant produced, half produced, arranged
half the record. Ian Hunter did two tracks, McK ronson
did a couple, and then a couple of songs like
Pumping Iron that we came in from Pittsburgh. I mean,

(45:07):
we just you know, they issued our versions. It was
it was interesting. No, we had a song called rock Ola.
There was the fastest song we had coming in and
it ended up being a very slow ballad. Uh it
closed the record, and uh, you know it was just,
uh the opposite of this other song we had called

(45:30):
a Struggle and dial ended up being We're not Dead Yet.
It was went from a slow song to a fast song.
So it was interesting and educational to see how the
people switched these songs around. And of course in those days,
you know, I I written a few songs, you know,
maybe twenty songs at the most, and you.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Know there's.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Somebody tells you your songs sucks. So I say to
your kids, ug, believe you know, you know, so uh.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Okay, but you're talking about Hunter, van Zandt and and
uh Ronson Ronson. Was there a lot of chefs in
the kitchen. Was that a problem for you as a
band as an artist.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah, there was, it was. It got to be a
stressful a few times. We handled it, uh pretty well,
I think for.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
The most probably who produced Pumping Iron, Pumping Iron Ronson Okay,
all right, yeah, but we were pretty much played played
it the way we had.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Envisioned it, tire. Yeah, there wasn't much tinkering on Pump
and Iron, Pump and Iris pretty much the Hosh rockers.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
So in a sense, they just hit play and record
and you said, this is what it's going to be.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Yeah. I mean we played it through a few times,
but it was one of the few that didn't.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Touch and that that had some regional play.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah, there's still probably our most popular song. And uh
you know when we do play the other players as
people seem to know it.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Uh So how did the relationship with Stevie van Zandt happen?
Because he kind of bowed out, But how did did
he introduce you to Bruce?

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yes he did.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I went down to UH Well after initials recording sessions
in New York, when the tracks were done, went home
and tinkered with some of the lyrics and knew I
had to re sing some of the vocals, and I
went back up by myself without the band to finish

(47:36):
up the record. Maybe a couple of weeks later, maybe
a month later, I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
I can't remember. But when I got into town h.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Mcrowlson, I said, Hey, I'm down to power station tonight,
come on down. So I went down to power station
and they were recording, trying, working on the meet though
follow up and uh. He had this unbelievable band assembled.
They had Max and Gary from Bruce's band Meat Lifted

(48:09):
and Nicky Hopkins playing piano, and Davey Johnston from Elton
John's band and Mick ronson.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
That was the band. Pretty good band woo.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
And so they were recording at the power station in
Studio B in Studio A, Bruce was during the river
and I just ran into Steve van Zant there and
we had hit it off pretty good working on the record.
He introduced me to Bruce, and when the record came out,
Bruce became a big fan of have a good time to.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Get out alive. He was, he was.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
He told some journalists that he really loved that record,
and uh so we just just became friends from uh
after Steve introduced us and I met him backstage at
a couple of his shows, and and uh.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
What are you a fan of Bruce? What are you
a fan of Bruce? Oh?

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bruce is one of the greats. I mean,
how cannot be a fan of Bruce Springster and especially
in those days because in what he was doing was
so unique, especially that second album, second and third records. Uh,
you know, you know when Bruce came out, you know,
punk rock hadn't happened yet, and uh, you know, a

(49:24):
lot of the music was you know, I was sort
of wasn't you know, relatable, but you know on uh
while the industry while in the instant Ea Street Shuffle,
I mean, write the first song, you know, first song,
Ea Street Shuffle. Hey, that's major Lands playing monkey time,
you know on the guitar. So there was all these

(49:45):
references that the guy in my age who was into
music got immediately, and uh, you know, he was doing
all the all this mishmash of all these styles that
that you know that I was loved and he was
put together seamlessly. And then his his uh his lyrics
were quite interesting and and uh meaningful, so you know

(50:10):
he was he was like one of the guys said
oh yeah, man, and then born to run of courses.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
You know you never heard of it. Yeah, you know, I.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Mean those are pretty you know, pretty too too hard
records the top right there.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Right all right, So how did that friendship blossom?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Well, we're playing Claire's's Club, uh big Man West in
Red Bank, New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
It was a coupled towns up from Asbury.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
And uh Bruce came one night, sat in with us,
and then he and I hung out for the evening
after it was done, and uh just got to be friends.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
We just hit it off, and.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Uh then uh, after the whole Iron City House Rocker
thing died in the early nineties, I was going nowhere fast,
and uh my wife, Lianne, he suggested, She said, why don't
you get Bruce a call s if we'll play on
one of your records. So I called up. I didn't

(51:13):
get through to Bruce, but I left the message with
John Land. Uh you know if uh, you know, I
would really love Bruce to play on one of my songs,
just play guitar and lo and behold.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
He calls up one night.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
When I was doing this acoustic gig which nobody cared
to hear at the time, at this bar down south
Side and uh, uh my sim and Brian Coleman says
on the break, he said, hey, you better call home
right away. Lianne just called and she said, Bruce called
the house. So you know, no cell phone, call on

(51:51):
the landline. Landline from the kitchen and tell the people
not to bang the pots and pains.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I'm going to take bank.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
So uh and Bruce and me out to Los Angeles
and we did chain smoking. There would be enough time.
He was having fun. I was having fun. We reconvened
in New York to finish him off, and as we
were working, uh, he asked me if I had any

(52:20):
other songs. I said, oh, yeah, I got all these songs.
And I played you know, maybe eight ten songs and
he said, man, they're not very good, you know, so
he said, you got to write something better.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Oh wow, Okay. Not only do I don't like your kid,
I don't I don't like the whole family. Yeah, but
but he has the gravitas to say oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, well he didn't.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
He said you could do better. So I was determined
to do better. And they weren't that great. They weren't
that great a songs. Okay, they were just you know,
there were songs.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Sometimes you go to bat, sometimes you hit a single,
sometimes you get double home if you're like, you get
a home run.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
That's by this time, you know, I was. I wasn't.
You know.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
It didn't break my heart that he didn't think they
were very good, because I knew they weren't very good.
You know, I didn't think i'd hit any home runs.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
So but that did that inspire you to, yeah, get
back in.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
So I come back and uh, somebody at a gig
then gave me a book about Homestead. So I wrote
the lyrics Homestead, and I couldn't come up with any
good music. So the next time Bruce and I reconvened,
I said, well, here's I wrote the song, but I

(53:39):
don't have very good ah music to it, but I
think the lyrics are really strong, and I gave him.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
I gave him the lyrics to Homestead.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
And by this time I was I was working full
time at a school for They called it emotionally distressed,
socially and emotionally disturbed or emotionally distressed kids behavior.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Problems severe severe.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Yeah, I was a specially I have a special ed degree.
And it was really tough gig. And for some reason,
you know, I would I would go and see my supervisor,
doctor Schaeffer and say, hey, you know, I got a
chance to go work with Bruce Springsteen. And as one does,

(54:29):
and uh you know, she was very understanding. I took
time off work twice. Uh no pay, you know, just
being honest, just said, you know, it's a chance I
can't pass up. So after the second time I go
into see doctor Shaeffer, she calls me in her office

(54:49):
and says, well, this isn't coming from me, but it's
coming from the boss, the big boss. And they said,
if you go work with Bruce Springsteen again, we're going
to fire you.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
And I said, what You're to fire me? Why?

Speaker 3 (55:02):
She said, I don't know. I can't tell you why.
But this guy had it in for Bruce for some reason.
And uh so I said, well, you know, I said
I'm done with the project.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
I don't you know, I died.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
It from you know, I'm going to be able to
work with Bruce rings and again I mean once in a
lifetime things.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
She said, Okay, you're just telling you.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
So worked that week, and you know it's Sunday night now,
and I got to work on Monday morning and lee
An comes in hands me to fund. He says, Bruce
and a Joe listen to this, and he sings homestead
over the phone for me, and uh, I actually got
it on on the copy uh phone machine, you know,

(55:43):
the answering machine is because he said, let's work on this.
So he sang it on a on it.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
I turned on the tape and I said, oh man,
it's great, said, I said, what do you want to
do this? He says Tuesday. So now I go and
work Monday, and uh, you know, I go home and
I call in sick.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
The boy that's Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh thinking now I'm going to
burn a sick day.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
So so you know that Tuesday, I'm if I flopped
the New Jersey and I'm sitting in Bruce's study working
on Homestead and Patty comes in with the phone. Again.
It's Bruce's wife, pre Sell Pone days and my mom

(56:42):
and dad had come down watched the kids, and.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Uh, I said, you better call home right away.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
Your mom just called, says an emergency any right way,
I think the worst. You know, you know, there's something
wrong with the kids. You know, there's the hosts burnt
down that and uh Bruce is Overplicer running a guitar
and said, I call home And I said, mom, what's
going on? Said Joey. I said, work just called and

(57:12):
they said if you don't call him back in fifteen minutes,
they're going to fire you. I what she said, Yeah,
so you got to call him. Here's his number. So
I called in and it goes to the boss and he.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Goes, where are you? I said yeah. He said why
don't you answer?

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Five?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I was in the bathroom. He said, why did your
mama answer? I said, well, I'm too sick, too sick,
I can't move. And he goes, you're not with Bruce Springsteen.
I said, no, no, I'm not with Bruce Springsteen. Right.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Bruce backed me up on it, and.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
Uh so he said, well, don't come back without a
doctor's excuse. I said, okay, no problem. So now I'm
you know, my best friend was the doctor, so I said,
So that eliminated that problem.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
And uh, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
You get no reason, you know, And to the day
I die, I have no I will never know why.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
That he had such a thing against Bruce Springston. Well,
I'm sure you get this question a lot. What is
Bruce like?

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Good guy, a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
You know, close friend.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
It's really funny, very very super talented. You know, I
think the key to his his phenomenal talent is his
ability to concentrate and focus on what he's doing. You know,
once he focuses in on something, it's like a laser.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
And plus he's just a great musician. You know, he
play every all the instruments, you know, he plays him
well his music.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
Actually, he seems to be interested in such a variety
of music.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Has a well he's a smart guy. Yeah, you know,
smart guy. And and uh, you know the error that
we grew up on. You got to remember Top forty
was just a whole much podge of everything, right, you know,
like everything from Stacks to Motown. You know that the
Rolling Stones to the Beatles to Glenn Campbell to.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Yeah, there were a lot of different sounds.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Yeah, the bread you know, there's every everything you know,
so it was, you know, really a cool time music
later to grow up.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
In when did How often do you write music today?

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Usually? Uh, when I have a project going, and if
I get one song, then usually more more comes uh.
And then sometimes I'll sit down and nothing, there's nothing,
but uh. I mean if you wanted to, you know,
you could write a song. You know, I could write
a song about this interview because you know the technical

(59:54):
skills to do it. But you know, would it be
any good? When you know? What are you saying? When
the day is done? And so you know, I just
I find out I write better stuff when I have
a project gone, because I'll start to get a point
of view and I'll look at it like I'm writing

(01:00:15):
a like a movie script and or a short story
or a book, and I try to connect whatever theme
I'm writing about, and it makes it somewhat easier. Like
that new record cannot run a memory, you know, it's really.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Autobiographical.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
It goes from nineteen sixty eight, and the first song
on it, this Is Who We Are, was one of
the Steve van Zandt had it as one of the
cool songs in the World two thousand and eight on
the Underground Garage. And when I wrote that, I mean,
that's exactly where I was at that moment. I want
to live on a quiet street. I want to be

(01:01:02):
left in peace. Somebody was probably aggravating me that day,
and that was my first line for that, that song,
and it connected to me. It connected a straight line
from when I first first bought that telecaster in nineteen
sixty eight and what was going on in nineteen sixty
eight to where I was when I wrote finished writing
this record, which was you know, post pandemic.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So the record is produced by Rick Wikowski, which is yeah,
he's you know b E and all the and uh
and Brian Coleman and a guy named Johnny Grischeky.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Yeah, my boy. Yeah, what is that like working? It
was great, you know, it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Feel very fortunate and he you know, and I was
Believe me, I'd never pushed him into to being a
musician because it's a it's a tough gig, you know,
and uh, but he always wanted to play with me
since he was a little kid. And you know, now
he's he's very very integral part of what we do.

(01:02:06):
And he you know, he fresh blood, you know, he's
one time I was I was thinking, you know, a man,
one of these gigs probably wasn't the greatest.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Gig in the world. I think, what am I doing here?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
You and I look over to my right and he's
over there, jumping up and down and smiling and having
the best time in his life. And I'm thinking, that
is why I started in the first place, to get
that feeling out of music. I'll never forget that. And
you know now, I don't care if there's well we
always play as best as we can. I mean, that's

(01:02:41):
the house walker thing. But you know now I try
to play every gig like it might be my last gig.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Ever. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
What was the worst gig you've ever performed? Do you
remember some some real stinkers.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
We got hired to do a gig, big money, actually
good money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
And we drove uh to do this gig.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
And we got there and it was a sports store store.
It was supposed to be the grand opening, and there
was nobody there, and they put us in front of
about a thousand stuffed animals, and no matter how softly

(01:03:35):
we played, they complained it was too loud. That was
my most recent lousy gig. One time they hired us
to play at a restaurant and we got the restaurant,
they had no PA, and said, what do you want
us to do? What we're supposed to play? They said, well,
we're going to move these tables and you set up here.

(01:03:57):
I said, well, where's the PA. Well, we don't have
a PA. What am I supposed to sing? I don't
know where? You know I have something to sing out?

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
So we just left. We didn't play that one.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
There's been a few.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
The flip side, What what is that one show that
you're like, yeah, this is this is the ultimate this?

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Well, there's there's been tons of them, but I can remember, uh,
first time went to Europe, played and uh, the weekend
before we played in Europe, well, actually it was like
a friday night. We played in West Virginia, and you know,

(01:04:37):
that's not too far away from here. Down in Morganton.
It's like I never existed. You know, nobody knew who
I was. They didn't know any songs, and we always played,
you know, we do very few covers, and it was
like a completely disinterested crowd, A couple of guys man
dancing with each other and that was about it. And
nobody knew one thing we did, and uh, we get

(01:05:01):
to Europe. This is this is like on a Friday
night where first gigs in Europe on Tuesday in Amsterdam
and we come out and the place is packed and
we started playing and everybody knew my songs. And then
we get to Spain and it was probably one of
the wildest club dates I ever did. In Spain, we
played a place called the Tombstone Club in Trassa, and

(01:05:24):
I'll never forget people three generations. You know, it doesn't
matter how old or how young you work. You know,
the teenagers, middle ages, old people like me. Everybody was
dancing on the tables. They won't let's start playing. We played,
you know, until we played probably every song we knew.

(01:05:45):
And it was probably the wildest club gig I ever played.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
How did that happen?

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
You have them, You have a gig within an hour's
distance from Pittsburgh and if they're apathetic, you go to
Europe and they go not yep, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
It was great. Actually a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
One thing that I know about joker Check is that
you play so many charity gigs.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
Yeah, why well, you know, as part of being part
of a community. You know, if I can get back
to help people less fortunate myself, you know, I'm more
than glad to do it. I mean that's the way
I was raised. My family were very generous and they
were always for the underdog. So it sort of just

(01:06:30):
part of my DNA. And I'm on the board of
for Light of Day Foundation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
For Parkston's Disease.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Twenty five years of concerts in New Jersey, raised eight
million dollars for parks in als and just had a
meeting the other night, so we'll be doing it again
in January. There's and we've played you know, I can't
even list all the places when we played.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
For the Rhythms of Life, Yeah, for Music Smiles program
now and you've done our Christmas show. We've done your
Christmas show. It's a lot of fun. That's always a
lot of fun. Toys for Tots.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Did original Toys for Tots for it was nineteen eighty
or nineteen eighty one at the decade, and we did
that for years. Uh, you know, it was a steady one.
But you know, I've done everything from uh head start
to cancer research, to heart disease, to women's health, women's shelters,

(01:07:42):
a lot of educational stuff raised money for when I
worked the stove rocks that raise money for the uniforms.
They couldn't afford band uniforms for the kids. Uh, you know,
Art Supplies. Did several concerts to raise money for Art Supplies.
And you know, whenever we can help, if we can,

(01:08:05):
we do it. Do you still love it? I love
playing music? Oh yeah, that's the best. Why it's just
part of Well, first of all, it's part of who
I am. It gives me, gave me my identity because
it's a bit of a lost soul before I picked
up the guitar. But uh, you know, it's just it's

(01:08:25):
it's fun to begin with.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Well, tell me about that lost soul, tell me about
that person. Well, you know, I just you know, what
I want to do for my life.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Well you know you think, well, you know, I'm really
not interested in anything other than playing guitar. I mean,
I have no passion for you know, I had a
teaching degree and you know, at various times has some
really good teaching gigs that I enjoyed. Uh, But as
far as stirring my soul, nothing did it but playing music.

(01:08:55):
And you know, probably you know it's a young man,
you know, if your direction listen. And growing up where
I grew up, it was a pretty rough part of time,
you know, part of Pittsburgh coal miners. Uh, you know,
tough kids, and you know, you can fall into a
lot of bad habits, you know, and do a lot

(01:09:17):
of stupid stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
And music sort of gave me a window to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
A world that that I knew existed, but I didn't
know how to get there, and informed my worldview and
formed how I treat people, informed my education as a
human being. So and plus it's it's fun, and you know,
it clears the brain. Nothing like clears your brain out,
like playing a good gig or sitting down and practicing

(01:09:46):
guitar for a couple of hours.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
You still play every day mostly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Yeah, And I meet this with all respect.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
You came so close, so close. Do you have any
do you have any regrets? Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Well, you know, well if you know who knows, I mean,
the closest we ever came is one time we uh
we played the weekend we did solid Gold. We got
an offer. Michael Jackson's manager wanted to manage us, this
guy named Freddy de Mann, and uh he came. We

(01:10:24):
played the Roxy in LA and he came back said,
you guys are the best rock and roll band I've
ever seen in my life. I want to manage you.
So he had two clients at the time, he had
Michael Jackson and Gladys Knight. And this is right before
uh Thriller hit And he messed around with us for
a while and we could not just we couldn't free

(01:10:45):
ourselves from our old managements. And he lost interest. Uh
and he went on to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Sign Madonna never who she Who?

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
And I got the one way ticket to Palukaville.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
But Pittsburgh has always embraced you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, I mean there's been
times the embrace could have been a little bit warmer.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Okay, that's fair, that's fair. But you've.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
You know, when I think of Pittsburgh music, I think
of Joker Scheck.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Well, you know our music is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:26):
You know, I got a play called East Carson Street
that was performed in New Jersey last summer. Wh're working
on bringing it to Pittsburgh. But it's it's a story.
A playwright from San Diego contact me and he said,

(01:11:47):
I want to write a play using your music. He's
just twenty two of my songs and the themes and
the characters from my music, and he crafted a story
about the Pittsburgh family. It starts like the era of
the decade where everybody's young and you know, looking at
what they're going to do, hooking up, finding their life partner,

(01:12:12):
and this first act, second act is adulting everybody's adults.
And you know, it's a story about a Pittsburgh family.
It could be from anywhere, but he sets it in
Pittsburgh because my music, he felt was specific to this area.
And a lot of it is because, like I said

(01:12:32):
at the beginning of a conversation, I used this area
to talk about things in my songs and it was
easy for me to look on what was going on.
And you could take twenty thirty, forty to fifty my
songs and tell the story of Pittsburgh if you want to,

(01:12:53):
you know, from immigrant families to still workers to everything
in between. You know, so it is. You know, I've
been doing this for a while writing songs. Started in
seventy six to write songs about Pittsburgh. So you know,
that's what almost fifty years ago now, and it does
tell a story of the city. So you know, I

(01:13:15):
don't know if any other guys you know, do that.
I don't think any other guys. There's place specific, city specific,
regions specific is my songs.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
I really am grateful for your time. I do appreciate it.
But we always end with this question, what is your legacy?

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
My legacy, Well, I like to be a good person,
first of all. I like to be a good family
man's second. Third, you know, you know, I want to
be uh you know, professionally. You know, it's like one
of the best, if not the best, ever come out
of here.