Mark Matteo: Frontman of No Bad Juju and Dynamic Musician

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Y'all knows it. This isn't video and you are oh,
bless your heart. This is the Code podcast, chronicling Pittsburgh's
music scene and welcome in. I'm Johnny hart All along

(00:21):
with Andy Pugar. Today we talked to the front man
of No Bad, Jude Jew Mark Mattio. Hello, are we
you know? Uh, you probably don't remember this, but I
I used to open up for you for a million
times at the Maha Club the BA I think I
do remember that. Yeah, yeah, I used to used to

(00:41):
DJ like every Friday night and you guys used to
be plow all the time. Yeah, they would, they would,
they would take us once a year if they could,
I mean once a month, they could. I try to
do it that often. You know, you did it quite
often we did then. Yeah, yeah, I've tried to cut
back a little bit. And plus he likes to book
me from like day one, you know back. But maybe

(01:01):
it's come October November. He wants to book me for
the entire coming year. And it's like I booked so
many private gigs now that it's hard for me to,
you know, take a Saturday night. But that's a good thing,
because great thing pays the bills. It pays the bills.
It's good money. And it also it doesn't so you're
not oversaturated exactly. You're playing to a whole different crowd.
We don't play a ton of clubs. I mean, there's

(01:22):
not a ton of clubs that could hold us and play.
We're playing this Friday. Oh yeah, it's come out. Oh
my god, can I bring my cap? Bring your stuff?
Your stuff? Well, we'll rock and level blast. That's funny,
all right, brother. We don't have an agenda here. We
usually try to, you know, kind of go back and
you know, when's the first time that music kind of

(01:44):
hit you. Did you come from a music family that
you know, we just look at you. We want, we want,
we want. We're going way back. Uh yeah, we want
the whole mark history. So yeah, jeez, this could take
me a while. Did you come from a music family?
Well sort of sort of. My mom was musical, but
she did not a lot in the home at that time.
But my my aunt was a professional organist for her

(02:06):
entire life. Who was my godmother. She her gig was
at a funeral home, so she was she was an
organist for a funeral home. Uh, it's a steady gig,
steady gig never never work. And my uncle uh played
the accordion, you know, so he had an accordion sitting there.
But my dad said, you used to always say, you know,

(02:27):
the only thing I could play as a radio. You know.
So he didn't really have much bench of town, but
my mom did, and you know, and I took an interest.
You know, like when I was probably like four or
five years old, heard the Beatles. Of course you probably
heard that a zillion times, but you know, I saw
the Beatles on TV. Next thing, I know, you know,
I'm playing a broom you know, uh, standing on the
table being the Beatles. So was guitar. Was the first instruitar. Yeah.

(02:49):
And it was funny too because I also had some
neighbors that were and we used to call them the
Hillbillies because they really were hill but they were like
the Beverly Hillbillies moved to our neighbor and and I
grew up in this little town, uh in young out
of side of Youngstown pulling a I'm sure you know
you've heard of it. I grew up in New Wilmington,
right across the oh okay, yeah, oh yeah, so that's
where I grew up. I was about so. I think
I went to Holy Family School through fourth grade. But

(03:11):
Youngstown back in the day was an amazing area for music.
I mean it had the like I was just talking about,
who did we interview that last week? Yeah, it was.
You know, there were so many nightclubs. Oh god, the
Agora and the Tomorrow Club and the Arcade and a lot.
I worked them all. Yeah, when I got from the

(03:34):
time I was probably about seventeen years old, I mean
I played. I started playing really young. I mean I
remember being up at Seven Springs when I was twelve
years old. My parents got me up with the band
to play, you know, and they were kind of shocked
that I just got up there and didn't didn't hesitate
to grabbed the guitar and start playing. I think I
played a grand funk tune or something nice. But yeah,
all those clubs in Youngstown, they had that whole strip

(03:58):
Market Street, and then up in the north side you
could play two weeks, five or six nights a week
and have crowds every night. Yep, move three miles down
the road, do the same thing. Another club, moved three
miles up the road and do another club, and you
worked constantly like that, and you had crowds every night,
every dance crowds. Yeah, you know, they came to dancing party,

(04:19):
you know, and I I and because the drinking age
was eighteen, so you had a much younger crowd too.
So you had three two beer, yeah, you know, three
point two alcohol. They didn't serve it. They didn't serve it. Well.
I remember one night I was playing I think I
was probably about eighteen or nineteen, and I was playing
this band, Brass Kicker, So it was like from the
first brass band I played with, because I came for

(04:42):
more of a rock background and I, you know, I
learned learned my funky and you know, my funk sound
and that kind of stuff from this band. But we
were playing this club and it was a pack club,
and I think I was probably about eighteen or nineteen,
and I was drinking probably like a seven and seven
because that's the only thing I knew, you know, And
and some guy was talking to me, and I was

(05:04):
actually talking to some girls. Some guys start got the
conversation and then he's like, can I see your ID?
I'm like, uh could? It turned out to be under
cover cop. Oh yeah, and I was playing the band.
I'm like, well, I'm in the band and it's up
on stage, and the fact that I was in the
band got me off. But that would have been pretty
embarrassing if they took me out of there and I
was playing in the band at the time. Well if

(05:25):
if if the bartender, if you ordered like a seven
and seven and he gave you a three two beer,
that was an indication that somebody in the club that
was undercover. So yeah, well this guy, I mean, he
just like got me dead to boom. All right. So
do you remember the first band that you joined or formed? Boy? Uh,

(05:49):
the very first one? Why so? I I usually formed
my own band, So to be honest, I've always been
that guy, you know. I mean, I've had a couple
like uh in bearing experiences. I remember when I first
started playing guitar, and i'd played my mom's garage and
we had this little band, three piece band, me and
this other singer and maybe a drummer. I can't even
remember what you call yourself at that time. I don't

(06:11):
even remember. I honest to god, I don't remember that band.
I don't even know if we had a name. But
my teacher asked if anybody to come in and play music.
So we didn't know any songs. We said okay, and
we came in and we stood up there like idiots
and you know, made some noise. I still remember. I
can picture myself. I might have been in third grade

(06:33):
or something or fourth grade, and I could just picture
myself standing there like an idiot, going by what did
I get myself into? You know? But I had bands.
I started playing seriously when I was maybe in ninth grade,
and we started playing you know, dances and things like that.
I had a band called Justice Justice. Of course, it's
probably spelled funny Smoker. You know, things like that, you know,

(06:55):
just but always work. I was playing. And I love
the names of these garage bands that everybody formed. It's
just at the time, you just think it's the best name.
We had to be just us like just uh stuff
like that, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it had
to be. And I still see that. I still see

(07:16):
that sometimes with these bands and I just laugh, you know,
but it's wait a minute, okay, No, bad Juju is
pretty unique. It's well, that was do you want to
get right to the story on that one? That was
because we we started out at the Chapel of Blues
in the West End, and they contacted us to put
this band together for the Chapel of Blues. There's new club.

(07:38):
It was an old church that we're uh, you know,
they're gonna start, They're gonna turn into a club. And
so we decided to take a drive down there and
look at it was in the West End, and we thought,
you know, we thought it was gonna be really creepy.
You know, it was like an old church that was
had been vacant for a long time. All the windows
are broken out with that We're gonna walk in there
and it's gonna be like, you know, yeah. But we
walked in and the sun was coming through all the

(07:59):
windows and you know, just had a really nice, warm
vibe to it. And somebody, I can't remember which which
one of us said it. There's like four or five
of us there that you know, the owners and the
people that were forming the band, and someone said, well,
there's no bad juju in this place. That's how you
got the name stuck. I gotta tell you, I thought
of you every Sunday when Juju Smith Schuster, every juju Juju.

(08:24):
I don't like when he played for the Steelers. Was
that a good thing for you? We got a lot
of We got a lot of play out of that.
I remember, actually, I think it was his first game.
I was at a friend's house. Uh it was like
a baptism party or something like that, and we had
the game on in the background and one of the
announcers said, Juju is like my favorite band in Pittsburgh.

(08:48):
That's so it was awesome. Yeah, all right, all right,
we're in ninth grade now and we're playing for just
us and you played guitar. Did you just play covers?
Did you did you write anything at that time? You know,
I road stuff at that time. Obviously they were very
primitive and okay, do you remember any of those early songs, yes,
you do. Well, I don't remember them exactly. I don't

(09:10):
remember how to play them or anything, but or even
you know keys they were in. But I do remember
I remember bouncing from cassette tape cassette player, cassette player,
cassett player to cassett player has a double track to overdub.
So that's what I was doing back then. So you
had your own four track studio basically out of boombox

(09:33):
and every time. Though. The funny thing was they were
the speeds weren't exactly right, so by the time it
got down, I was I was about a half step higher.
My voice was a little bit higher. Yeah, all right,
So what kind of vibe was just us rock? We
were rock bands? Yeah, I was. I started playing rock bands,

(09:54):
you know, my very first well, god, let me think
I actually was even before that. I'm trying to remember
the name of that band. I played in a when
I was about seventh or eighth grade, and I remember
playing it our drummer's basement. We would just throw these
parties and kids would just come in and I remember
there's a picture. I don't even know where it is now,
but there's a pictures like some girl was like laying
there with their head like inside the kick drum, you o,

(10:15):
that kind of thing, you know. But we were playing
like Grand Funk and Black Sabbath and you know that
kind of stuff, you know. And it's because of the stuff.
I mean, I just heard of them. And I don't
want to offend anybody, but I just heard a I
was driving to the beach and I was had just
put on these classic rock stations and I was listened
to Grand Funk and I'm thinking, no, wonder we played

(10:36):
that stuff. It's so simple and it's so basic. It's
you know, it's still great music. That's great. Oh yeah.
The thing is a lot of people forget that. They
may have been considered a heavy rock band at the time,
but you listen to it and it has a lot
of swing, a lot of yeah. Oh yeah, those voice
Mark Farner's voice is really something, right. I agree. It
was so funny because we open for Grand Funk. It

(11:00):
the one of the rib cookoffs down at the Three Rivers.
But the time I think it was yeah, I think
it was still Three Rivers at the time. And our
bass put at the time, Tommy Bellen, was a huge,
huge fan. He did the same thing as me. He
grew up the same way listening to that stuff. And
he had what was his name, mel it's out the
bass player's name, right, yeah, yeah. So he asked if
you autograph his bass, So he gave a SHARPI and

(11:20):
he autographed the entire back. I mean, you know, he
thought he's gonna get this little autograph, took up the
entire back of the base. It was pretty funny, but
it was interesting. I got I've gotten gotten to open
up for a lot of people or or even play
with a lot of people that I listened. We're going
to get into that. We're going to get into that
in a little bit. Let's let's continue with the progression.
So all right, So yeah, okay, so I mentioned, Yeah,

(11:42):
I kind of jumped ahead a little bit. So, I
mean I back seventh eighth grass playing, and we we
had some you know, we played you know, I had
this drummer, the mic. I remember we rehearsed at his
house and play in his basement to these parties. But
back then again, ninth grade, probably when I started playing
out a lot, you know, playing in the school dances
and things like that and youth centers, you know, and

(12:05):
back in those days, I was going to concerts too.
They used to have fire halls and things like that
where they would have concerts lined up like all day long.
You would go and listen to bands all day. And
I remember some of the bands. B Taylor Band. I
remember hearing the B. Taylor Band when I was you know,
and the fact that I got to work with them
later on was just like such a thrill, you know.

(12:25):
But then so that evolved and then you remember the
first like major band that you saw live. I'm want
to say it was probably the first one was probably
Alice Cooper and he It was a place called the
Struthersfield House, so it was small. You remember the first
record you ever purchased? Well, I want to say we

(12:50):
used to have the record clubs, so I think one
of the well, Dizzy Dizzy by what's his name, Tommy Yep,
which I got to play with him later on, and
he's liked, anybody know the backgrounds of these songs. I'm like,
I'll do it, you know. I was like it was
like one of those the oldies shows. They used to
have three w s oldie shows at the at the Stadium.

(13:12):
I used to back up all those acts, so I'm like,
I'll sing all the backup parts. I know all the songs,
you know. So but yeah, that that and then later
on Rubbert Soul was a big one. Okay, the album
started beatles and then the band uh stage fright, Okay,
I remember I remember actually just do you ever to cover?
That was all just like different colors, and I I

(13:34):
just remember just for some reason drawing that album cover,
just mimicking it. But yeah, so we'd get all those records,
and uh, you know, I'd listened to wear them out. Basically,
you remember what radio station you were listening to in
Youngstown when I was little little kid. I remember W
H O T. I worked there? You did? Yeah? Wow?

(13:55):
Did you know Boots Bell and Boots Belly T thirteen thirty? Yeah,
I remember listening to all that. Now, listen that all
the time. And then as I got older, I would
try to tune in WMMS from Cleveland and DV from here,
you know, because I think, did you listen to ws
R D remember the Wizard? I don't think that was

(14:17):
around the time, Okay when I was like the seventies,
wasn't Okay, Well maybe I don't. I kind of remember that. Well, Bootspell.
Here's a story of Bootsbell. He's he was. He was
like that old time, you know, you know he was
you know, he would he would yeah, yeah, yes, and

(14:40):
and so he always he was this character he had
like you know, he was in his sixties and he
had you know, his black characters, black and you know,
and he would always walk with a king and so
he would put the his kene up against the wall
while he did his radio show, and there were guys
in the building that would steal his his cane and

(15:02):
then go to the woodshop and shave it off like
one eighth of an inch every day. That's incredible. There's
another legendary h OT story. I'm sorry I didn't know,
because it used to be their radio station was located
in Camel which was right next to a dump. I

(15:23):
mean literally, it was the city dump next door. And
that always that that town always had. I had a
lot of relatives there, and it has such a nice
odor to it because you are the steel mills. So
as soon as you start crossing the bridge like little
kids plugging our noses going across the bridge yet and
so there would be a lot of rats in the
radio station. So they would get cats and to fend

(15:45):
off the rats so it wouldn't get into the radio station.
Well in the winter, the cats, you could easily lure
the cats with milk and a bit of food. And
what they would do is they would get the cats
and then put them in the piano. And they used
to have a big revival on Sunday. Sunday, Like one
of those guys the preachers that play in the piano

(16:07):
and rock and everything else, and he would put the
cats in the and the cats would get all warm
and fall asleep in the piano, and then they would
for the revival. They would start playing the piano and
you would hear. And then one Monday, the general manager
would come in. Damn it, fighting the cats in the piano.

(16:27):
If I find anybody who puts the cats on the piano,
you're fired. Next we're bad, Oh my god, next week.
It was like a TV show. I know, it's awesome. Yeah,
there were some There were some crazy guys that I
work with in the Youngstown So when were you there
when we wht? I was there in the actually in
the nineties, so I was, I was, you know, but

(16:49):
I had worked with I grew up in that area
and between. Yeah, yeah, because I grew up in New Wilmington,
which is kind of in between Youngstown and Pittsburgh, so
I kind of got familiar with both worlds. And you know,
but it's funny because I've always been a die hard
Steeler fan, but you know, when you go to in Youngstown,
they were they were Browns fans. Well you had both

(17:09):
nowadays you do, but back then, back in my aunt,
the one I told you who the organist, and she
was she was my godmother. She was die hard, die
hard Steeler and her kids were die hard Browns. So
it was it was an ugly thing on Sundays. And
of course you had one. She had four kids, and
the one for some reason, was a Minnesota Vikings fan.
But I digress back in the in the in the
sixties and seventies of the Vikings were a really good team.

(17:32):
Ya police. He was more like, yeah, so he was
younger than me, So this is probably like the late seventies.
Yeah so, but that's a great time to grow up.
What a man, such great music yep, yep, yep. So
I'm always curious about what kind of music you were
listening to at the time and and that kind of
you know, it's it's your foundation of So I evolved

(17:52):
into listening to more progressive rock like the Uh well,
of course I liked all the classic rock you know,
the Who, and still love led Zeppelin. I think it's
one of the coolest, funkiest pocket band. I mean led Zeppelin.
I absolutely love Stones, you know, I kind of I
was more of the Beatles guy. But when I was

(18:15):
probably maybe sixteen or so, I was playing in a
band with a bunch of guys that were like ten
years old of me, you know, like twenty four, twenty five,
twenty six, and they took me to see The Rolling
Stones and changed my life. I'm like, unbelievable, unbelievable. This
is really a rock band. This is there's certain bands
that had that effect. I mean when I saw the

(18:36):
band live, same thing, same effect. Saw Clapton a couple
of times. I remember hitchhiking from Youngstown. Mom rest in peace,
I said, didn't know this. I did that a couple
of times to see Airic Clapton. Do you remember the
concert that they had here with Clapton? Uh? Who else

(18:57):
was on Clapton? Todd Rongren was on the show. I
think the the band was possibly one of the openers
too on that one. But that's when they threw the
beer bottle Clapton Clapton. Okay, no, oh my god, it's
I've never seen Clapton live. I saw him in live
aid Okay, but that's the only time I've actually and

(19:18):
and he blew. Everybody talks about Freddie Murcury and Queen. Honestly,
for me, the big major moment for me was Eric Clapton,
It's like, oh, I get it. This guy he's god.
He really just he just he makes it look so effortlessly. Well,
this is when he's going through the transition doing I
shot the Sheriff and stuff like that, and people wanted

(19:41):
to hear Crossroads and you know all the old Cream stuff, which,
by the way, Cream was huge influence. I loved Cream.
I played like half Cream's repertoire growing up. But someone
through a beer bottle and hit him and he said,
whoever through the fu and f your mother and played
a couple more songs and left. Yeah, he had a
big thing planned. I think it was at the same

(20:02):
time as that Rainbow concert and he's gonna bring all
these people up on stage and never happened. Wow. Yeah, okay,
but that that's I actually hitchhiked to see Emerson like Palmer,
same thing that at that same time that in Cleland
as well. That these are both the Pittsburgh Pittsburgh. Yeah, okay,
that was that three Overs. I'm trying to remember Emerson

(20:24):
like Palmer. I think it wasn't three Overs, Yeah, but
Clapton definitely was. Okay yea, So now getting back to
forming your bands, playing high school dances and things like that,
and you're you're writing, you said, you you remember, you
don't remember how to play it, but you do you
remember the the theme was that was that a rock song?

(20:44):
Was that a song? Actually? Yeah? I wrote a bunch
of rock songs. Yeah, but they were just just like
riffs and you know, stuff like that. But there was
one song I remember, for some reason, still sticks them
and I still think this actually might be the only
one was still viable. Is something like her name is Cherry, Yeah,
and Cherry likes to play with the boys, you know, Cherry.

(21:07):
Me and the keyboard player came up with it, and
we just we just started recording, like I said, bouncing
back and forth between two cassette players. And so we
had about six tracks and there was about half a
step or a step higher because that was one of them.
And I still have some recordings. Man. Every now and
then I'll pull out, like I'm moving, I'm still in

(21:28):
the process of trying to move, So I'm pulling out
cassette tapes and it's like, oh my god, this is
like going back. These are songs that I was trying
to write at the time. Yeah, you know, and some
of them have viable, you know ideas. Some were just garbage,
you know, but uh yeah, But I was always trying
to write at the time. I always had that, you
know that even though I was just I was kind

(21:49):
of a pragmatist. I knew I had to make money
and play. But I always had that in the back
of my mind, you know, maybe someday I'll get my
songs out there. And you know, so I was always
trying to write well with no bad Jude, you play
a huge variety of music, especially now. Yeah, So was
it just rock? Is that what you aspired to or

(22:10):
did you have a variety of taste as far as music. Well,
when I was younger, it was rock. I was definitely rock.
And certain things changed my Like I I was even
so such a like a narrow minded that it was
like if it was had more than three piece or
or two guitars and you know, based on drums, it
wasn't rock. And then my my friend who lived up

(22:34):
the street, his brother was a was a keyboard player
and organist organist basically never played like in any rock
bands or anything like that. And so he came over
one night and we carried my parents organ down the
basement we were and we started playing. I'm like, oh man,
this is so cool, this is like, this is for real,
you know. And then I'm thinking deep purple and that
kind of stuff, and he was actually really good. My

(22:55):
parents came home and the organ was gone. But my
parents were awesome. Man. They just they supported my music,
you know, I mean they anything I needed. My dad
took me out. I mean, I remember my first guitar.
They bought me a beautiful white It was probably used
obviously Telecaster, so you know, the cream colored ones, real thick,

(23:16):
and I think I only had it for about two
days and then they maybe take it back and get
this hollow body epiphone so I could play it without
an amp, which this is an interesting story. I loved
that guitar. I polished it every day. And when I
think about that guitar, I smelled mill Sex. Do you
know Millseck that polish, Well, it's like a furniture polish.
I polish every day with Millseck. That had to be

(23:38):
the shiniest guitar you ever saw. But it had long gone.
I have no idea whatever happened to the guitar. But
my cousin who was a little younger than me. Eventually
got same guitar and or very similar guitar, and just
recently he was in from Colorado, goes, I got something
for you, and he gave me the guitar. It's a

(23:59):
nine teen sixty eight was it the guitar? No, it
was his? Yeah, okay, it was his, the same one
he got, Okay, but it was the same style and everything.
And it's a it's a nineteen sixty eight epiphone Sorrento. Yeah, man,
how's it sound? Sounds great? I took it in to
get it, get it set up, and then I, you know,
I plugged it in this little voxamp and man, I

(24:21):
was rocking out with the de guitar sound. It's so good.
Do you remember the first time you played out besides
maybe a school dance, like an actual club, actual club? Well,
I played a lot of clubs, probably from the time
I was about fifteen or sixteen. I got in a

(24:42):
band with, like I said, these older guys and actually,
and what was its name? That band was called Smoker
I think was the name of that band. Okay, so
this band, okay, yes, I'm I'm confusing my line up here.
So there was this band. It was me, a drummer
bass player named Eddie Peccio who played later on played

(25:04):
with the Michael Stanley band and some of those people's
he's from Youngstown. He's living in Florida now he's got
this great classic rock band. And then a guy by
the name of Mike Damiano, who is a keyboard player,
guitar player, keyboard player, maniac. I mean he was, he was.
He was about ten years older than me, eight or
ten years older than me. And we started playing out

(25:26):
at these different clubs and stuff. And Mike had this
big mop of black hair, big black beard. And his
brother was a very serious biker and he would get
us these gigs at biker bars and and you know,
we play up in Geneva, those those really you know,
shady places. I remember one time we were playing at

(25:47):
this one biker bar and we finished a song and
it was just maybe like and his brother pushes and
his brother was feared by everybody. Yeah, pushes this chairby
go and then add exactly, your hype man. It worked.

(26:10):
It helps when you're your hype man is a is
a leader of a bike He looked he looked like
Charles Manson and tell her he did. He almost looked
exactly Charles, and he put the fear of God in
people like Charles Manson did. But anyway, so that evolved
into a band called Tom Thumb. Now this one just
came back to me. We we we added on this
other guitar player. His name was Tom MQ. And Tom

(26:32):
was it's just like this tiny little guy, blonde hair,
and he was just a great guitar player, singer. Taught
me a ton of stuff. I mean, I learned a
ton of stuff from him, including how you know, he
had this guitar that he kind of rebuilt called a
Strata blaster. He put he took a telecaster to stratt
and put him together. And he got me into some

(26:54):
things like you know, Todd Runger and music and things
like that. And I became a huge Tadd rung Gering fan.
And at that time, so we started playing even more,
you know, with that band that was a five piece
now and we you know, we had a falling to
the keyboard player and uh back back in the band
before that, Mike, the keyboard player and the bass player

(27:17):
didn't really get along. And the nail in the coffin
was Mike had Mike was a collector, Mike Mike, and
he's still he's the words and he's got like hundreds
of guitars. He had this old epiphone twelve string. I
don't know if you if you're familiar to these, they're
like a red color and the the the tuny pigs
go opposite. These guitars are like amazing. Well, Eddie knocked

(27:39):
that guitar and broke the neck. So that's it. That
was pretty much. It was. Yeah, it's so funny that
I'm fascinating somebody who has no musical talent whatsoever. But
you know, I love music and I love you know,
when how bands get the together, how they mesh, and

(28:02):
it's equally entertaining how they fall apart because it happens
all the time. It's people asked me how I've kept
this band together for so many years, and it's just
it's I who said, who's a big band? Leader? Said,
I pay them. But every man is the land of
misfit toys. It's just like, you know, you guys are

(28:22):
you have so many different personalities and how they are
able to stay on stage and mesh, you know, like
I don't know if You've been keeping track of what's
happening with the band Journey with Neil Sean and Jonathan. Yeah,
well whole notes too. I mean look at that. Yeah,
you know they end up hating each other, but it's
all or you know, Fleetwood Mac is the most infamous

(28:43):
story is that, you know. But when they get together
and they produce music, it is, it is magic. It's
to this certain chemistry. I've been in those situations, man,
where there's fist fights before you go on stage and
you come out and you play the best music ever play.
And I'm even kidding, Well, I can't remember how I
met a lot of these guys, to be honest, I
remember so this band, when we had the band Smoker

(29:07):
We is this still Youngstown? This is still Youngstown. Yeah.
I was in Youngstown until I like my early twenties.
Then I moved to Florida. But I met this Mike
Damiano and he's going to turn me on to this
Tom Mchue. They have the Tom thumb And that's an
interesting little bit tidbit here. So Tom, these guys knew

(29:28):
a lot of the like the old punk rockers. Do
you remember Jimmy Youngstown? And well, uh, oh, oh god,
what's what's what's the most famous Stevie Batter stiff stive
stive Baters. Well, I saw actually Youngstown was kind of

(29:49):
a hot spot for punk rock. So it really was
well and I saw a lot of bands. But you
know that was all right, that was a million years
ago too. Well, these guys well, so so we we
rehearsed in my parents' basement. My mom used to have
to lock herself from the closet with their phone she
ever wanted to talk on the phone because we're so loud. Well,
my mom was really attractive, she was really you know,
and she was really supportive, and you know, she would

(30:11):
always be offered the guy's coffee and stuff. And these
guys were all like way older than me. So they
would stay and they I you know, I'd be going
to bed and they'd be sitting there talking, having coffee
with my mom. Well, it got to a point where
my house became like the house where all the musicians came.
And you'd have guys like Jimmy Youngstown and Steve Baterers
who had at that time, had you know, rings in

(30:32):
their noses and you know, full length for coats and
mohawk hare and they'd be coming through and walking through
my house and my dad would just sit there, like,
what the who are these people walking through my house?
And they would just walk in the door right down
in the basement, you know, we play and you know,
and they would sit there and then they know, walk

(30:52):
back out. Yeah. I saw the hundreds of punk shows,
but I don't remember that. And that's it. These guys were.
And I don't even know how, you know, we got
involved because I never played. I was never into the
punk scene at all, you know. But they liked the band,
they like the music, and Tom Tom was well, what's
funny is that, you know, we considered them punk back

(31:13):
then and now it's pretty tame. It's tame compared to it. Yeah,
you know, it's real. It was real. Well, there was
a couple of stive Baters. He was Stevie Batter. Of course,
his nickname was Master, you know, but he shortened it
to Stiff hold On. Let me put that stive Batters
stive Baters, I think. And he became pretty big in

(31:34):
the in the punk scene. He was he was at
my house every now and then. And uh As was
the biker little Jesus because a lot of times we
would be loyal to the club as opposed to the bands. Yeah,
do you remember the band like Left Left? Of course
I used to go see Left End and a brain Child,
remember brainch I do. I just guys, that was one

(31:56):
of my most humbling moments. When I was younger and
I was playing. I was starting to really hit the scene.
And billbo Dean who was he was a bass player,
but he's also why I shoot trumpet player. And then
he left and he went out to l An. He
was the musical director for Star Search. Remember Star Search? Yeah, well,
so he was back in town and we were playing
somewhere and he and I'm trying to remember who the

(32:18):
drummer was, came in and sat in with with my band.
And I was never so intimidated in my life and
so humbled. It was just like, oh my god, I
can't hang with these guys. You know they got good.
I gotta learned a lot more stuff before I could
hang with these guys. So at what point did you
move to Florida and what what prompt you to do that? Okay,

(32:39):
so I played all through you know, high school and
playing all different but I never went to any of
my high school dance or anything like that, because I
was always out playing other people's you know. And then
my parents encouraged me to go to music school. You know,
it's something I thought I would never want to do.
I just I'm you know, I'm this rock guy. So
you know, I I I go to audition for y

(33:02):
su for you know, day to school and music and
you know, the first thing you to sit you down
and they say, right out the star spangled banner, the melody,
and you know, to chart it, just write it out,
just write out the melody, you know, And I take
I had taken lessons, but you know, I mean I learned,
I know the guitar, but you know, my lessons eventually

(33:27):
evolved into sitting down in jamming with my guitar teacher,
you know. But so I try to, you know, fudge
my way through that, just singing it to myself instead
of just knowing the soul. Fitch. It's you know, symbols there,
syllables that you learned later on. But anyway, I made it.
I got into school and I and I somehow or
another managed to graduate school. Well for me, it was

(33:50):
five years, but it was four years. I know, I
went for four years, but I didn't take my I
didn't do my senior recital until a year later. But
I played class goal and then I played jazz. I played,
I got, I got into the jazz band, and I
was basically learning, and I still I guess I was

(34:11):
a little bit the thought that I could rely on
my instincts didn't realize the education you really needed to
go through to to really understand what you're playing. Because
my ears, I had good ears. I could listen, I
could learn stuff. So I kind of, you know, made
my way through that. And then we did a couple
of concerts and Tony Leonardi was a jazz director at

(34:32):
that time, and Tony's nationally known. He played with Stan
Kenton's big band, all this kind of stuff. He was
just an amazing basic educator. But he had some of
his cronies, like some big name jazz players come in
and do shows with us, and they a couple of them.
You know, I was one of the guys that they said, hey,

(34:52):
this guy's potential. This guy, so he promotes me to
the first band, which I didn't deserve. The guy that
was in the first band was clearly better than me. Yeah,
I mean, I mean maybe not instinctively, but you know, technically,
you know. And and but I just my heart wasn't
in it. I wasn't. I never saw myself as a

(35:13):
full time jazz player, you know. So I I plus
the whole time I'm doing this, going through college, I'm
playing you know, four or five six nights a week,
traveling to Cleveland four nights a week, or Pittsburgh once
in a while. Mostly it was more like towards Cleveland
and Youngstown, but playing pop stuff, you know at that time.
Now now I'm into the funk bands, like you know,

(35:35):
Average White Band and Tower Power and uh, things like that.
And that's where I really learned my you know, funk chops,
you know. And then and that became my love, that
became my passion, you know. But anyway, so once I
got out of college, you know, I still play in
the circuit around you know, around Youngstown. And then I
just thought it's got to be more to it than this,
and and I love the warm weather and stuff. So

(35:56):
I took a couple of guys in my band, grabbed
a couple of other guys and move bok stock and
barrel down to Florida, you know, And so did you
play clubs down there? What? What part of Florida? U? Tampa? Okay,
So so yeah, I moved to Tampa, and I before
I moved down there, I went and I choked Chuck
Chuck some things out and I signed on with this agent,

(36:17):
shister agent. These guys used to like, man, the commissions
you'd pay back then, because he'd paid this guy, you know,
you'd end up paying thirty five to forty percent commissions.
And this guy would literally show up to gigs with
a gun, collecting commissions from guys that were Yeah, I
mean he took a liking to me. Well I thought
he did. I'm not sure, but but anyway, so I

(36:40):
signed out with him. He got me this gig at
this restaurant club in Sarasota at the top of a
holiday and it was on like the top floor, like
when those in the round kind of things, so right
on the beach, and I think I book like six weeks,
six nights a week. I thought, Okay, it's taken off.
I'm good. Well, once that gig ended, he didn't even
more gigs for me, so you know, I'm out there

(37:02):
hustling trying to get gigs and I'm playing. You know, man,
I'd take anything we're playing. We booked two weeks at
this country bar and we played no Country. We're rehearsing
like it theros Yeah, exactly exactly. Oh I played a
place like that. Get those dog get bars and beer

(37:24):
bottles at well, that's that's that's that's kind of place
it was. And I remember walking to the door with
my drummer, who my drummer was kind of a troublemaker,
and not troublemaker, just had a smart mouth. And these
all these guys. We first of all, we pulled up
and there's nothing and this now this is right outside
of Tampa. Okay, I'm trying to remember the name of
the area, but it's a big horse area, you know,
the horse horse ranches and things. Well, there's all these

(37:46):
pickup trucks with you know, horse trailers, and we're we're
walking in the door and these guys, well, guys play country.
If you don't play countries, turn around and walk out,
And of course my drummer has to pop up with
yeah we played country, black African funk, that's what country.
I'm like, Oh, we're gonna die. We're gonna die. And

(38:07):
we did. We we we made it through I think
two nights, and then we got fired. No, we actually know.
They kept us with for the full week, the full week,
and then they fired us for the next week. Thanks.
But yeah, but then you have to have that experience
of getting out trying to do it on your own,
and then you've got a greater appreciation of what you
had and the area, and it's it's a different world

(38:28):
down there. Oh it's oh, man, I'll tell you. Back
at that time too, I had I had the long
black mullet, not black, but dark mullet, and must big
mustache and dark tan. And this is the time all
the Cuban refugees were coming in, so all the redneck
cops at that time. Man, I'm dry. I can't tell
how many times I got pulled over coming back from you.

(38:49):
And I remember one night I got run off the road.
It wasn't specific specifically aimed at me. It was just
some some guy in a pickup truck is probably drunk,
and came straight at me on the highway. The highway.
It was a little road with marsh on both sides.
It was in Inglewood, Florida. And I pulled off the
road and then right after that a cop came. So

(39:11):
I'm flashing my lights and stuff, and the cop he
hassled me for about the next half hour forty minutes,
and then you know, it's too late to do anything
with the guy that actually spran me off the road,
right right? Yeah? So but anyway, so, yeah, we played
did you mentioned the ill tell you what we are not?
We're not kind of strangers around. My first radio job
was the Myrtle Beat South Caroline. Oh, okay, so I

(39:33):
know at that time, man, Yeah, what do they call
that music? Was that music they played? Oh? Shag music?
Shag music? Yep, yeah, I got a story. There was
a movie called Shag with Oh God. Who was the
dark haired girl in Fast Times at Ridgemont High? Do
you remember her? I? Actually I used to DJ a
club called I can't remember, but I would play shag

(39:56):
music and I didn't I'm from I'm from Pittsburgh. I
don't know anything about shag music. But it's it's beach music,
not beach boys music. That was a confusing thing. They
say beach music, beach boys. Yeah, and so they were
filling this song this movie called Shag, and they they
kind of vaguely remember them, came in to see what
it was. Studebaker's was the was the bar, and so

(40:18):
the cast of of Shag came in and and Phoebe
Kates is that her name? That sounds right? Yeah? Okay,
oh yeah yeah yeah. So and then this this young
sixteen year old girl came in, just cute as a button.
She was in the in the the DJ booth with me,
and she's like, you know, what, what songs do you play? Well,

(40:39):
first of all, I had only been there a month.
I don't know what the hell I'm doing. So right,
you know, you had music, you just played whatever. H
And so she was really cute, and now I was
kind of like, you know, a little smitten. It's Bridget Fonda.
I had no idea. I had no idea until much later.
I was like, she was that cute little girl hanging
out with me at that's the Bakers. Yeah. Getting back

(41:04):
to so, how much how long did you stay in
Florida before I was Florida? A couple of years? So wow,
you stayed a couple of years, I believe it, well,
almost two years, almost two years. But I was playing
a lot I mean I played some cruise ships. I
played well, you mentioned that the the like the Blues
Brothers saying we played this little club called the Oyster
Bar in in Englewood. I was playing at the same

(41:27):
holiday and in Sarasota, and I get this call. Because
this is how long this was. I get a call
and I had to go out to the payphone and
call him back. And it's this agent, different agent, not
the not the s Chuck Thompson, who became a really
good friend of mine mentor just a really cool guy
in general. He's passed away since, but he was like
a second father to me almost. But he had this thick, thick,

(41:51):
thick Georgia accent, and he spoke one hundred miles an hour,
so I could not understand a word he said. So
all this time, I'm thinking, I'm playing a place called
the oushaba Osha and it turns out with the Oyster
Bar and he but yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. But right

(42:14):
off the bat, now he'd he invited me to his
house and he collected antique stuff, which I was into too,
and it was just it was actually a really cool,
cool relationship. But but this place had the stage you
could see where the chicken wire had been cut away,
you know, because it was it was it was real.
It was like a real blue It was a roadhouse,

(42:35):
that's funny. It was a wild, wild place. Man. By
this time I had replaced the bass player back with
that Eddie Peccio. He was living in Florida, so I
replaced my guy, who was really a good bass player singer,
but he was a nut. He would do stuff like well,
I won't get into some of the stuff he did,
but you know, he'd lay down on his back on

(42:56):
stage and just like play bass laying down on his back.
And if you get tired, you need a rest, Yeah, exactly.
I got a quick story in in in South Carolina radio.
Myrtle Beach is located in a county called h o
r r Y. All right, how do you pronounce h
o r r y? Yeah, So so Yankee Johnny Hartwell

(43:21):
is like, hey, there's a storm coming Horry County. The
phone line up. It's all right, you stated, Yankee. Al right,
oh right, you proudly oh right, Oh see, I still
don't know that. I still thought it was Horry County.
No right, oh you Yankee, trust me. My uh my

(43:43):
step son. It gets a kick out of Horry County.
He liked, he loves that. Yeh yeah. So all right,
so we're we're down in Florida for a couple of years.
What made you what prompted you to leave or return?
Did you go back to Youngstown? Did you go Pittsburgh? Alright,
So that that's where things really changed. I got a
call from Jiggilow. And at that time, Jiggilo was huge.

(44:05):
I knew about Jiggolos. Yes, Sputsy and Ernie and Gary
and Joey Joey Ardoy who I knew Joey Joey and Ronnie.
Ronnie was a drummer and I knew them both pretty well.
I had jammed with them before, and you know, they
sat with my band at times, and I had a
huge respect for both of them. And this is when
Sputzy and Ernie and Tale. No, this was before tal

(44:29):
Spetzy and Ernie were leaving the band. They were going
to Modern Man. They were taking over Modern Man. And
I think I don't even know that Ernie ever made
it to Modrow. I think Ernie just quit. Through all
the uh, all the animosity and stuff, things got really ugly.
But of course I wasn't aware of all the inside
fighting and stuff. I get this call and I was
at that time, I was still playing. You know, I
was struggling. I was always struggling for work down there.

(44:50):
I was always looking and just those are the greatest times,
you know, it was. I'm telling you, I used to
live on chips and salsa and like, what was a
beer down there? There was a beer distribute. I used
to buy like a twelve pack for like two and
a half bucks or something, you know, and I lived
on this stuff. But they called me, and at first
I'm like, man, not interested. I'd love it down here.

(45:10):
I'm you know, I'm finally getting my foot in the
door and I'm meeting people and stuff like that. And
I love Florida. That's part the won I picked Florida
after about ten minutes of thinking, and I'm like, I'm
an idiot. I just got a call from like the
hottest band and you know, like the region to move
up there. So I called him back and they flew

(45:32):
me up for an audition, and you know, I came
in with my Miami vice, you know, the jacket with
the T shirt and mullet and joe Yardireau who you know,
I remember this was a guy I hope you can play,
you know, stuff like that. So I got the gig
and they helped move me up here and stuff, and

(45:52):
you know that I would that. I think that before
they made the switch, we went on abou the same
amount of time, maybe a little over a year and
a half, almost two years. And then Sputzy was had
mardern Man going. We had giggle and we're kind of rivals,
you know, we would torch each other and I barely
knew Sputzy at the time, you know. And then uh uh,

(46:14):
Spuzzy called Gary and Joey said, hey, I want you
to he of course that was Sputzy's way. He took
over marter Man. That fired everybody. The guys. These guys
are well established. I mean they oh god, well Joey
and Joey and Gary wouldn't leave without me. So I
have those two to think that I'm probably still in
Pittsburgh and still like making a living. But so I came,

(46:38):
and you know, me and Sputzy immediately hit it off,
and you know, we became like, you know, inseparable. Now,
did you replace Spotzy directly at well, the funny thing
was I replaced Spuzzy and uh, oh god, oh my god,
what's wrong with my brain here? The keyboard player, uh

(46:59):
that we brought in was supposed to replace Ernie, but
it turned out the other guys sang more like Spuzzy
and I sang more like Ernie. But still I was
a guitar player, singer, and you know. And but that's
basically what that was all about. And and and then
Ray Ray Delicio moved over to the middle of the
front man. So and the band did very well, you know,
we we had crowds all the time, and you know,

(47:20):
but there was, like I said, there was that rivalry
going on, you know, and and I just remember jokes
and insults and things like that, you know, because Waterman
was originally like a rock band and we're funk. We're
just funk band. And but what Spuzzy took over, of course,
they moved more towards the funk side of it. But
we still you know, you know, this some was someone
yelling the crowd like play some rock and war, we'll

(47:41):
go see water many stuff like that. But then we
when we merged, then it was you know, it was
which made sense because you have Spotsy and then you're
doing the Ernie part. So yeah, yeah yeah, and then
we we you know, even eventually we did some reunions
with Ernie and tw Well. How I don't know if
you remember tal uh tal much really good performer, good singer.

(48:06):
He uh he was part of that band too, and
he he he was the guy. Those are real perform
He had the dance moves and all that kind of stuff,
you know, but that band did very well. Of course
I remember those days playing guy. It's like like the
old Youngstown days. You play, you know, you play a
Tuesday night in the Sheridan, West, Middlesex, and you have
a thousand people, you know, and they're dance crouds, young crowds.

(48:26):
That's you don't see that anymore, you don't, you don't,
not at all. It's a whole different world. And what's
funny is that you go to a like a wedding
or any kind of you knowle love to dance. Well,
they don't know how to dance anymore because they're TikTok.
It's TikTok there. They only know thirty seconds of a
song though dance and then they're out. Yeah, you should well,

(48:47):
you should see though we play these We play a
ton of weddings now and their young crowds, and they
go out of their minds. They don't know that, oh
someone actually plays this stuff. It's in the older music.
They love love what's old is new again to them.
And we just played gam on Walnut and there's probably
like four or five thousand college kids there. They sang
along with every sing every song and we play We

(49:08):
play a lot of contemporary stuff too, but they were
they were singing along with stuff like September and uh,
I want to dance, not anyone, I want you back,
you know, don't we don't play like when we do that.
We keep a lot of the more contemporary in the
early two thousands, things like that, you know, and then
you do the pop punk stuff like you know, all
the small things going down and it's huge. They go

(49:31):
out of their minds. But they love me. When the
horn players take solos, they go out of their freaking minds.
I mean it's like they have someone actually plays instruments,
you know, or like our bass player Mark will rap.
Mark's a really good rapper. He'll rap, and again they'll
go out of their minds. So they'll just freak out.
So it's fine. I love I love playing these weddings.
Man three WS. We're an old East station. Yeah, we're

(49:53):
number one in Pittsburgh and guess what, we're the number
two teen station. Teens love three w oh out of
their minds, that's wold. You know, like you mentioned, I
want to Dance with Somebody Whitney Houston. Yeah, yeah, it's
like it's the number one teen song. They just are No, Well,
we played that at weddings. We don't play that in clubs.

(50:14):
We play that at weddings, right, And there's a lot
of stuff will play at weddings that we don't necessarily
play it at a night club. You know. But like
I said, we've delving into little little of the country
stuff Wagged Wheel will pull out at a wedding, or
Sweet Caroline, you know, we you know, our band has
evolved over the years so much that the stuff that
I said one day I would never play that, I'm

(50:35):
I mean, I still I still won't play brick house
or play that funky music. You know. But we've you know,
we've we've we've been quite a bit. You know. What's
funny is like this the song is cool down. But
like five or six years ago, uh, you'd play a
song from Toto Africa, and what was funny is that
people in their forties and fifties would look at us like,

(50:57):
why are you playing Toto? Mean well, the the younger,
the younger, twenty year olds, the ones that are getting married,
losing their minds. I love that song, by the way, Yeah,
that's one of my favorite. See. I'm a huge Toto
fan me too. I don't particularly liked Africa or Roseanne
of course hardcore yet yeah, but anyway, all right, so

(51:20):
so now you've you've Jigglow and then you did the
sputsy weird thing Modern Man, So Modern Man is going.
And then Spussy decided he wanted to do the wedding
thing the pro soul providers, well yeah he put yeah
he at that time wasn't even the sole providers yet,

(51:40):
and I just wasn't ready to make that. I still
wanted to do the whole clubs, Yeah, clubs and things
like that. And you're still writing your own music at
all still Yeah. Yeah, we put out a couple of
records with with Jigglow uh and Modern Man with Jigglo.
I didn't get the I was like the George Harrison,
my songs weren't consider you know. And then with Modern

(52:02):
Man it was it was kind of the same thing,
but they did a lot of this stuff, like Tom
Cousey came into the picture and he and Sputsy were like,
you know, Croni's and most of the rest of the
band was left out, and they tried to really push
him as a solo artist. Any interest with record labels
at all, with anything? Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well I

(52:25):
recorded a lot right after that time. I recorded a
lot with the old keybop player Gary, he was producing.
He well, you know, this kind of transfits the transition
because after that band, when Spotzy decided to do his
wedding thing, we kept the core with me, Gary, Joey Ardireau,
and tal and we put this band together called The Nation,

(52:46):
which is fairly short lived, but it was actually a
really good band. But right before he's supposed to go
out and debut this band, Gary calls me, goes, I'm
going out on the road with a band called Snap.
Remember that they were power Yeah. I got yeah only.
So he went out with them, and before you know it,
he's playing with Backstreet Boys. So he was in the
backup on Backstreet Boys. And he calls me one time

(53:09):
from I don't know where he was, maybe Orlando or
it might even have been overseas, but he goes, hey,
I got I got the next Backstreet Boys. We're gonna
be recording in you know, his place in Union Town,
a studio in Union Town, because I want you to
play guitar in some songs. So I came in and
played on in Sync's first album, a couple of songs
that didn't Sink's first album, and and I thought, Okay,

(53:30):
I'm play these songs and let's see what happens. He
calls a few weeks later, a month later, whatever it was,
and says, hey, check out pick up a billboard. Were
number one in four countries. Oh really okay, So yeah,
so uh that was kind of cool. It was really cool. Yeah.
I got paid session fees till like maybe ten years later.

(53:51):
Then I start getting some residual checks from going to
video and from Japan and stuff like that. But then
from that I played on a lot of uh inner
Go artists. I played on Aaron Carter. I remember Aeron
Carr the kid when he was little I played on
I played on his head. So that's a Backstreet boy brother?
Is that exactly? Okay? All right? He was nine or
ten years old. I'm in the studio with with Gary

(54:12):
and he's out there riding his bike around the parking lot.
You know. We take him to a restaurant. What we're
taking a break, and there's like little girls everywhere going
and who is this kid? Yeah? But I played on
Crush on You, which is one of his big hits.
And I'm still a little irritated because I wrote a
bridge on one of the songs around his albums I
didn't get credit for. But that kind of thing happens

(54:34):
in this business. Yeah, but who else? Who else have
you recorded on? Oh god, I'm trying to miss some
of these other artist names. So Trey des that sound familiar.
He had me do so many different things. We do
a Christmas album for friends sinc I played with back
in the day. I mean, I told you I played

(54:55):
a ton of those roots of rock and roll shows,
you know, you know Little Anthony and Little Anthony's in
an interesting experience because it was a three hour stadium
and it was we would back up all the acts
other than maybe the headliner, James Brown brought his own band,
you know, but Little Anthony found out it worked. At

(55:17):
that time, I started working part time for Pete Tambolani
Entertainment Unlimited as a booking agent too. And he knew
Pete from way back in the day when Pete's to
book his band. So he started calling me Pittsburgh, you know, so, hey, Pittsburgh,
what's going on? What's going So we're playing in with
three rivers Stadium, you know, it's Pack Stadium. We're playing
and they're doing Hurt So Bad and it's so bad

(55:38):
you make it. He turns with us, Pittsburgh, Take one.
So I started ripping out this solo. Well they're singing
and doing their whole moves and singing that Hurt So
Bad thing, and I'm like getting goosebumps because I remember
that song from his little Kid. Yeah, so that's awesome.
I I have a lot of experiences like that, you know,
Like I said, Little Anthony, Tommy Rogue, how many people
plays he has got a chance to play front of

(55:59):
fifty Foul, I know exactly. Those Those are fun times, man,
They were just really fun times. And we just get
there and I remember playing Eddie Homan, Oh this was
I played with him in Pittsburgh and in Cleveland. Remember,
Hey there, Lonely Girl. Oh yeah. So we get there
early in the morning for rehearsals, and you know, we
rehearsal with all these people and he walks in at
like nine o'clock in the morning and he starts hitting

(56:20):
those notes like right out of bed. Hey there, Lonely Girl,
I mean like nailing it, you know. And uh And
he was the nicest guy in the world and I
got to play it. Then Bo Diddley, Oh yeah, Bo
Diddley comes in and he's just nasty and he just
he we went through we'd go from temperament and he's temperament,

(56:41):
temperament and we rehearsed and I don't think we did
any of the songs that we rehearsed, and at least
out the arrangements. He was one of those guys just
had to watch because he would just like change when
it was time to when he felt like book like
he's he's he's famous and he's amazing, but all his
songs are yeah, but he would play like odd like,

(57:06):
you know, instead of like four eight bar sections seven
and he's decided wanna make it. I'm gonna make a
chance here. So you had to be glued to him,
you know, watching when trying to get a feel for
what he's gonna do next. Yeah, but uh, another what
was a Duke of world dude? What was his name? Uh?
Duke Duke? Yeah, Duke Goober or with do you find it? Uh?

(57:32):
Gene Chandler, Geen Chandler. We're playing with him and he
came out. This is this one I think was in Cleveland,
and he came out and you know, we rehearsed with
him for a little bit and we started the tempo
we started with. Well, Jean had a little help going
into the show. You know, he a little pharmaceutical have pharmaceutical.
So we're going Duke do Doke Duke and it's me
and Ronie Krazinski. Ronnie Krasinsky, you know, was phenomenal drummer,

(57:57):
and do so faster, faster, faster. We're faster there. Ronnie
looks like we can't play it any faster. We're a
gun arena or something like that. And it's like he's
out there and he's you know, he's sweating and he was.
But some interesting experiences with those acts. Man, it was yeah,
it was fun some fun times. Old school guys. Man,

(58:19):
they're they're you know, oh, I'll give you a funny story.
And you know, Joey ar Girau So, Joey Ardroaw was
in Jigglow Modern Man, Joey Soul Providers. Oh yeah, he
and I were probably the longest people that stuck with Sputsy,
but to Joey the longest. But uh, Joey was just
a phenomenal bass player. I mean the guy in musical

(58:41):
The guy was music. He couldn't make a sandwich, but
he was just he was just like the most musical
person I ever met in my life. But he was.
He just was just just one of the funniest the
stuff that will come out of his mouth, and most
of it was unintentional. So we're we're at hospitality for
one of these shows and we're we're open for all
these acts, and Jan and Dean we're on the show.

(59:03):
I'm Jana Deen. That's surf being sure. Well at this
time Jon Hammer was out and he was a big
you know, he was a big fusion guy. Well, we
sit down hospitality for lunch and we're sitting right next
to Jan and Dean, and Joey's sitting right next to him,
and we're looking at the list of acts we're gonna
be playing with, and Joe's like, who's this John and Dean.

(59:27):
I'm like, oh God, And the guy looks over. I
am Jon Hammer. That wasn't that the axe f theme?
Is that? Yeah? I'm pretty sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but yeah, that whole thing going on. So Joey knew him.
He had no idea who this because joe was all
into like funk music. I'm Joey was like, man, the

(59:49):
funky is human being alive, you know. So all right?
So after Modern Man, what what what did you do
after that? Okay? So I after the Nation broke up,
I decided to take a little bit time off. That's
when I started doing the whole like, well, I actually
I started doing the agent thing a little bit part
time while during Waterman, but I started working with Pete

(01:00:10):
Tambley and well what the the way that started? Tony Scrow,
who was our song at the time, called me and said, hey,
you know, we're building a studio down here. Do you
want to do some work? So I came in and
I wrote a jingle for Entertainment Unlimited, and I wrote
a legitimate one, and then I wrote one with a
narrative that was so that Pete Tamberlain he doesn't give
it about your about anything. He just lives on that

(01:00:32):
house up on the hill and he just wants to
get your money else. And I did this whole voice over,
and I'm thinking this could go either way, you know,
but Pete laughed his ass off and he so he
brought me in and I was down on the studio
and he hooked up with some of these advertising guys,
and I did a bunch of jingles, you know, at
that time, I did. I did the biggest one was

(01:00:53):
eighty four Lumber. I did their jingle and and back
when they used jingles, yeah, tell me what you obviously
remember how it goes, Hello America eighty four was here
for you to build a store that's right next door
for all the jobs you do, you know. So, but
so they use that for their entire campaign. I mean

(01:01:14):
they had Hello America belt buckles and t shirts and
they played the at the what's the country thing down
in Jamborey. Yeah, and then they opened a ton of
stores at that time, so every couple of weeks pretty much.
They would call me in and I would just dub
in instead of Hello America, Hello Brookville, West Virginia was

(01:01:38):
here for you. So I did a bunch of those,
and I did of course the water Man, we did.
We did Iron City. We they they brought in a
producer from from New York and we did Working on
a Cold Iron that song working on so we did.
They they reworked it for Iron City Beer. That's so
there's a money in that. There's a lot of great

(01:01:58):
money that that Iron City Man. I got residuals on
that for years, and it was like that's back when
they paid you residual. It's not just a flat out
you know, sorry, excuse me, get a little dry. I
would get all of us will get checks for like
a third. I think it was like a thirteen week period.

(01:02:20):
So depending on what sport was happening at that time,
you know, you would get so you'd get paid for
the pirate season and then it would dip down. Then
you steal a season, but you would get cable TV radio.
So I might get like five checks in one day
or six checks in one day. I mean what they
were in huge amounts, but they ended up with some time. Yeah,
I've never received what so I love getting residual checks. Mean,

(01:02:45):
that was the best ever, you know. All right, So
all right, so man, all right, So we found out
that you've played with a lot of modern groups that
we know, some throwback you know, some old sun stuff. Yeah,
then you did Jingles and then then when where are
we now? Okay? So after the Nation stuffs and I

(01:03:07):
came back and forth with Sputzy with Soul Providers because
I really wasn't into it, to be honest, I just
it took me a while to realize that, you know,
there was you could you could still have a great
band and and you know, make good money without really
having to you know, been too far, you know, I
guess I was still kind of idealistic. So I really

(01:03:29):
wasn't into the whole, you know, private event band thing,
which was stupid because That's where I'm at now, you know.
But so I would go back and forth and we
but part of that was I would get to play
a lot of these shows because a lot of times
they would they would they would call Sputzy to bring
his band for these even though he didn't actually play,
just use the band to play these these like you know,

(01:03:49):
all these concerts and stuff. But anyway, so I did
the whole Soul Providers thing. I think I came and
left with that band maybe three times. You know, you
still get along with it with Spuzzy. It's kind of
a love hey relationship. Uh not love. I won't say
love hate. I mean, it's just we just don't keep
in touch. We had we had a falling out over
the whole no bad Juju thing, and without getting into

(01:04:09):
too many specifics, never really healed properly. You know, always
have a fun we're best friends, you know, so fun
memories and I still I still dream about him a lot.
He's in a lot of my dreams. You know. We've
had some unbelievable adventures together. Trust me, did the road
together with you know me, him and Joey and Gary.

(01:04:31):
Never laughed so hard in my life. But yeah, we
don't really keep in touch. I was actually just thinking
about him the other day, like maybe I'll try one
more time to reach out and see what happens. He's
in Florida now, so but he and I and we
talked to him about six months ago. Yeah we found
good good and yeah he's unbelievable talent. You know, come
on time Heels all will yeah, give him a call.

(01:04:51):
You would think, uh, you don't know the Sicilians. I
mean it's like time wounds all Heels. I think, oh,
well that would imagine that that back in the day
with with Jigglow, you know, you had six day goes
up there, you know at I'm literally we there was
times we look like a modern man too. Not so
much with modern man though there was a few close

(01:05:12):
to fist fights would look like a like a rugby scrum.
Before the before the we actually went out on the stage,
people like trying to throw someone else across the room
and everybody jump into you know, to try to try
to calm things down. And then you get out on
stage and in front of a thousand people and kill it.

(01:05:33):
You know. But anyway, so so, like I said, I
played off on all us Budsy, and then we got
this call from this guy opening the Chapel of Blues
and he said, do you want to do this thing
at the West End. Yeah, it's the old Church. And
what I'm saying that sounds like fun. You know. They
want us put together a blues band. So we put

(01:05:54):
together like a nine piece band, you know, to to
go out and play this thing, and it was it
was a frequent Now he still had his band at
the time, so that was probably part of the fallout
because he would be gone, you know on certain nights
with his band, or he'd come into the last set
and you know, the band would be into a groove.
You know. That place was like do you remember the

(01:06:15):
old cartoons where you'd see the whole place like rocking
back and forth. You know, it was it was so
much fun going on. People have such a great time.
That's what the Chapel of Blues was like. That place
was packed every night and it would just it would rock.
We'd have so much fun there. You know. There's so
many great clubs that that that I remember that you know,
you look and it's just, uh, it's just vacant. It's

(01:06:36):
a shame that place shut down. It was up until
the day closed. It was packed every night, you know.
So people like what happened. It's like, well, I didn't
find out until what did happen? Uh. Just maybe not
the best missman. I hate to say that, but probably
little mismanagement and maybe not paying the bills that need

(01:06:57):
to be paid at the time. I mean, it's it's
not an easy thing. Yes, that's a business I would
never do a millionaires get into. But that was that
was a tough one because when you see a club
that is just rocket yeah, week after week after week,
and then all of a sudden, Yeah you see that
with restaurants. Well, of course some restaurants you see it coming,
but you see the same thing restaurants and all of

(01:07:18):
a sudden they're closed, Like I can't tell them. One
of my favorite restaurants close over the year. Yeah, right,
but we got we got maybe a week's notice if that.
Weekends noticed that it was closing, and I had to
try to hold this band together and uh and I
managed to somehow or another hold it together and start
booking gigs. We're lucky we got. We see, the owner

(01:07:40):
never wanted to let us out. I had offers to
play other places or play private events or whatever, but
the owner we played there three or four nights a
week every week. We're their house band, So no, you
can't take a Saturday offer this off. So but I
ended up booking the Royal Reception and the mccollin. It
was coming up down the road. I was gonna take
that night off no matter what. So that was like

(01:08:03):
the first private gig we did. And then somehow or another,
I managed to start booking clubs. People wanted, I mean,
they wanted the band, you know, but we couldn't get
out of the out of the chapel So Rhythm House.
From the Rhythm House, God, we're we're there probably once
a month for I don't know how many years. Another
great place that closed up. What else I'm trying to
think of some of the other club but we I

(01:08:24):
would just piecemeal together, man, just keep that band working.
And then we started picking up the private events. We
did a lot of stuff for like Mileland Labs. We
just started doing a lot of stuff in West Virginia.
It got to a point where were playing so much
in Morgantown, in Fairmoont and Clarksburg. My car would go
there automatically. It's I remember one time I was going
I forget where I was going, maybe somewhere out I know.

(01:08:45):
I had to get on seventy and I just kept
going south on seventy nine until I was driving for
about a half hour. Well, but so the band just
did over the years, evolved and We started out as
a nine piece playing mostly blues and our and B
old R and B. And I got to play stuff that, man,
I hadn't played since I was kid, or even never
played that I loved, like, you know, the songs like

(01:09:06):
bell Bottom blues and things like that, you know, and uh,
we just had such a great time. We had four singers,
four lead singers. Pecky Pecky, you know, he was with
Pure Gold and then he plays. He's kind of he's
a bass player, drummer, singer, songwriters. The Pure Gold like
they played Greensburg a lot. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, back

(01:09:29):
when I lived there. Yeah yeah, But Pecky was a drummer,
Fred de Leus keyboard player. We had a man, we
had such a history as horn players. Of course, Steve McKnight.
Me and Steve are like and Steve was kind of
an original member because he was there at the beginning,
but he left and came back. But were the only
two original members. I was going to say, how many

(01:09:51):
how many people have come and gone through? Man, I've tried,
you know, in my head, I've added this up. So
we've had I'm obviously the original guitar player, singer. We've
only had two female vocalists, which is something only two
keyboard players. We've had four or five bass players, four
or five drummers, well, no, maybe four drummers. Horn players

(01:10:12):
are the ones that maybe we had a ton of
horn players, but we've my lineup. It's like spinal tap
and they just disappear. There's another horn player. It was.
It was kind of a weird thing for me learning
how horn players operate. You know, they don't want to commit.
You know, I come from the old school where you
get in a band, you commit to that band, it's

(01:10:32):
gonna be your thing. Horn players, you know, they wanted
to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak.
I hate to say that they're all gonna be pissed
to me, but no. But they wanted to have the band,
but then they wanted to sub out when if something
that they wanted to do more or paid more money,
whatever came. So so we had I mean every major
horn player in Pittsburgh's played in this band at one
time or another. I mean, if not just sitting in
quite a bit, you know. Uh. Well, Curtis Johnson was

(01:10:55):
one of our main main guys. Curse phenomenal player Frank
Malo was I think our first trombone player, if I'm
not mistaken. We had Steve of course on trumpet. Doug
Green played for a while. Joe Herndon was one of
our original guys too, then all the all the all

(01:11:16):
the biggies on Seid, Eric to Fade, Benny Banak, you know.
Eric s Balden played with with the band for a
while as a steady member. Oh god, who else. There's
so many guys that can't remember their names. I'm telling
you there had to be twenty twenty some horn players
and out of this sometimes. But now my my line
is really steady now, so it's been pretty steady for
a while. He still love it, Yeah, yep, I mean

(01:11:39):
sometimes I get it's a lot of work. I work
seven days a week keeping this band work, because it's
because it's a full time job, and it's you know,
trying to keep a booked and trying to keep the
everybody happy and making sure because especially ever since after
after the pandemic, things went awry. I mean, you get
the everything doubled, My production costs doubled. I couldn't get
sound people, I couldn't get you know, so it was

(01:12:01):
a it was a grind man, and I don't think
the crowds have come back on one hundred percent. It's
coming back, and it's it's better. But you don't have clubs.
There's nothing. You don't have the clubs, and we don't.
You know, that's the thing to make a living at
this I can't do just the club thing. I have
to have weddings, corporate events, festivals, things that pay well,

(01:12:23):
you know, And all the expenses have come up, you know.
I mean, like I said, production people, I'm paying you know,
on a lot of these gigs. I'm paying a sound
men more than I'm paying the band members, you know,
because it's they're in demand. And the whole production business
has gotten to a point where you know, people will
pay for staging and lights and stuff like that. And

(01:12:45):
I'm talking like big corporate events, you know, and their
bill is five times as much as they're paying the band,
you know. So for me to book my own and
it's just the company I used for years and years
sold out to another company and they literally a price
more than doubled on me. So I had just start Now. Luckily,
I have two great companies in place that are working
with me on ninety nine percent of my shows, and

(01:13:07):
then some of the places have their own production. I
was bringing a sound guy in, like we just played
the Meadows, you know, Kevin's a sound guy there, and Kevin,
you know, it's it's hard to trust a sound man
that doesn't know you, you know, when you got as
many many moving parts as we have, how many pis
it's a or eight piece, and Ricky uses a supplemental

(01:13:28):
drum machine just to for you know, rather than having
a percussion player up there, you know, for the ding
dongs and the whoops and you know, so that's that's
all part of it too, you know. But then you've
got three horns, and you know, everybody in the band
sings pretty much, you know, so if the guy doesn't
know the music or is not paying attention, it can
go awry real quickly. That almost kills some modern man.

(01:13:49):
We lost our sound man and we went through probably
eight guys, and you know it's just because they if
they don't know what they're doing. It's fairly easy to
find a sound man about to find a good one
or a one that fits what you need to do.
That's that's the hard part. It's almost like another member

(01:14:10):
of the band. It really is well back in the day,
back in Jigglow, I don't think we did this a monorman.
But in Jigglo, Tony Scrow is our sound man. He
was in the band Pictures. He was an integral part
of the band, and I guess for a while before
actually I think I don't think he did it. When
I was in the b before I joined the band.
He was actually singing some harmony parts from back at
the board. But so, yeah, it is an integral part

(01:14:30):
of the band, and it used to be more so now,
I mean, because we had like back in those days,
we had delays and echoes and effects. They were all
part of the show. So he would know every single cueue.
And this is back before I think was automated too.
Now not so much. You know, the guys will pick
up their own stuff, and so I'll use a processor

(01:14:50):
a little bit like for like for vocoder sounds and
for low five sounds and things like that. I don't
throw in reverbs and delays like that because I don't
to mess with the guys sounds. Until until I started
going tap dancing too much and I have too many
pedals and I start running through every single pedal out there,
and and the vocal goes from and some nds looking

(01:15:11):
at me like thanks, you're killing me out of here.
So is there anything left that you want to accomplish?
What's yes? Yes? I so I recorded a song. I mean,
I've I've written. I probably have forty songs in the
can right now that are that I've written. Over the years.
We've released some we haven't. We've put out two albums

(01:15:32):
two two original albums with with no Bad Juju, and
I still want to put out another one. It's getting
harder and harder to get guys on board with because
it's just it's it's almost impossible to make money from
original music now, so to get people to put that
time in and you know that effort, Uh, it's hard
to get the band project. So I want to I
have a song that I recorded actually during the pandemic,

(01:15:54):
right at the end of the right at the beginning
of the pandemic, single for me, and Freddy Nelson produced
it and then we had Rob Hill out in LA
mix and master it. So I want to release that,
do a video and release that. And I have some
other songs that I want to release as a solo artist,
because I've never released anything as a solo artist, you know,
so I want to do that. It's time. It's definitely

(01:16:16):
time to do it. And I have I have a
great song well sitting in the can right now. It's done,
completely done, and I have a couple other ones that
I know I definitely want to release. The biggest hold
up for me is I couldn't find a producer. I mean,
I love Ricky with Kowski. I love Ricky and I've
done some work with him, so I'll probably end up

(01:16:36):
recording some more stuff with Ricky. He and I are,
you know, he's one of my favorite people in the world,
and he's great at what he does. But getting down
there all the time, trying to find somebody close by
that I can, you know, just pop over when I
get a minute and work on stuff. But Freddie worked
out well because he's lived five minutes away from me,
and we recorded rated his house and we're like really

(01:16:57):
good buddies, and he had he he took my song
and reworked it, which was really nice. That's what I needed.
I need fresh years. I don't want, you know, I
don't want to just the last couple albums I co
produced everything. I wanted someone to take over and tell me, no,
it's not gonna be that way, it's gonna be this
way or that way, rather than me making the final
calls on things, you know, just just to get a

(01:17:18):
different perspective on it. The one one thing we'd like
to end on is asking the question what would you
like your legacy to be? Who? Well, that's a tough one.
I guess that I took care of a lot of people.

(01:17:39):
I pleased a lot of people. I am entertained a
lot of people, and that I'm appreciated for what I did.
I kept a lot of people working for a lot
of years, working very hard, and took care of my people.
I mean, for instance, like when all this all the
prices started going up. You know, my prices were already
set on a lot of the stuff, and I gave
my guys already is and I pay the extra pra

(01:18:01):
all the all the extra money that was costing, and
I wasn't making it anymore. I was making less because
I was paying my guys what I felt they were worth,
you know. But I get a real satisfaction out of
doing these events and just seeing people go out of
their minds and having a blast and making it. You know,
it sounds kind of hokey about the weddings and stuff,
and I used to think the wedding wedding band. But

(01:18:22):
we go out and we do our show. We don't
do water down version of the band, and these people
come and they just have the time of their lives
and they say, you make the day. I mean, I have,
you know, one hundred thank you notes at home and
people just saying how it was the well a great band,
thank you great. But that's what I want. People just
to remember me for being a good guy, for treating
people fairly, for making good music. I like to be

(01:18:45):
remembered as a good musician. Hopefully I always, you know,
as I'm probably like any other any other performer or
athlete or whatever. You you know, you have that little
thing in the back of your mind that says, well,
I got over on these people for so many years.
You know, they think I'm more than I am, you know.
But uh, but I guess that's it, you know. I
just want to be remember for treating people well and

(01:19:06):
doing the right thing, and uh and doing it well
while I did it. U

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