Escape the West, Open a Bar in Vietnam (Da Nang Cost of Living Interview)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode of the Cost of Living Abroad podcast is
brought to you by Safety Wing Nomad Insurance. Today we're
asking why are so many expats moving to Danang, Vietnam
for a better life? Is it still worth it in
twenty twenty five and how hard is it really to
open a bar or business here?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Stick around to hear the real.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Cost of starting fresh abroad straight from two guys who
actually did it, Will and Cyril, the owners of Patio Bar, Danang.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Those months, I just was around, visit the city, go
to the beach, go to the mountains, enjoy life, and
realized I would really love staying here.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
How long did it take you from you know, the
moment you landed in Danang and started looking for a
location for this business to like opening the door and
pouring a drink six months. Especially in terms of the
cost of living, this idea of like the more you earn,
the more you spend. So what are you Why did
you leave California?

Speaker 4 (00:55):
And I came out here Originally because I had a
seasonal job for years the US that afforded me a
few months off every year. This is a beautiful place,
especially during the cold winter time back in the States.
For older wintertime.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Eventually I decided it was time to make the meat.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
I was tired of how the rising costs and everything
in California. There's plenty of like social political reasons as
well that you know, we're incentivizing to take off.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Kind of been on my mind for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Why don't you explain some of the real like the
pros or what it was that drew you into Vietnam
as opposed to Costa Rica.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Too many Americans, because.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
I mean over the world, it's gotten easier and easier
over the years now that we have like the Google
Translate and everything, but that's so ingrained here or even
if and it's better if you speak the language, of
course it's nice. But if you don't, unless you're in
an administratibility and dealing with some kind of bureaucratic thing.
People are pretty easy going. People speak English a fair amount,
and everybody has their Google Translate ready on their phone.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
All right, guys, what's up? Welcome to cost living abroad
something will will so, thanks so much. Thanks for having
me at your new business a patio. I'm pretty pump
to be here. So basically we started usually just talking
about the cost of living, the expenses people have in
their new life abroad, why they left home, that type
of thing. But I think with you guys, it makes
sense literally, just like let's start with the business. Either

(02:20):
one who you can jump in and explain to me,
but like, how did you start the business? How do
you make money abroad? What is the patio?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I was at the origin of this project being in
F and B for twenty years, and I traveled a
little bit everywhere. I was in Segon and I used
to run a buck called do Not Toyos. I decided
to make a move to Dana, saw my business in
Pushimi and came over here. Gave a call to Will
and I knew he was interested in starting something over here,

(02:47):
and we decided to go for it. The move was
kind of see moving from Oceanming that is a big city,
busy twenty four hour seven. Coming here. Was looking for
a more relaxed kind of lifestyle. It more close to
nature and you got to see you got the mountains,

(03:08):
the weather is beautiful. That's what motivated me in the
first place. Opening a restaurants or a bow but here
was just the natural thing to do for me. It's
when I know how to that's what I know to do.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, absolutely, man, Well, i'mber you guys know too. Obviously.
I started my Vietnam journey like in Saigon before I
came here, and I originally met you Famba Cham, which is, like,
I don't know, it's a hipster area, but it's certainly
like one of the cooler going out areas. Yeah. Absolutely,
one of the sort of expath hotspots going out areas.
And that's where your original bar, Notorious was. I've also

(03:41):
made that parallel move to the Nang for some of
the reasons you talked about. But I guess for so
many people, the turn off or maybe the drawback of
coming to the Nang is that it's very hard as
an x powder a foreigner to find any kind of
in person work. Right the vast majority of expats here,
like me, they're working online. In some ways, the audience,
the people watching would be really curious about your process

(04:04):
of doing that, of opening you know, a brick and
mortar in person business like the Notts and Bolt stuff,
all those challenges.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Before coming to Vietnam, I did my research on internet.
I was looking for a place where foreigner could open
a company. What I've got from the nets was there
were two places where you could do everything by yourself,
Vietnam and Costa Rica. My choice was easily made. I
lived in Asia before. I lived in Taiwan for seven

(04:32):
years and I really enjoyed it. I came back here,
different country, Vietnam. Vietnam very easy for foreigna to open
a company.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
So well, I think it is being very like pro business,
right like, the sort of obstacles to entering business here
are very low with I think there's as a misnomer,
most people think the opposite. I think Vietnam is very
you know, maybe because the sort of taboo or whatever
it being communists to run by the communist parties, but
it's actually super pro business like people that Yeah, it's

(05:01):
entrepreneurial economy. It's it's a startup economy. It's a hustle culture.
So why don't you explain some of some of the
real like the pros or what it was that drew
you into Vietnam as opposed to Costa Rica.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Too many Americans?

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, and then he picks up an American business partners.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
And to be Frank cost Ricaus, I haven't been to
Costa Rica. I've spent a lot of time in Central
America and Mexico. But it's more expensive than here too,
cost of living.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Life for sure, and the growing costs are I mean,
it's getting exponentially more expensive daily, whereas here it's a
much more gradual.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
So what was the process of setting up the business?
How long did it take? What was the paperwork, like
the bureaucracy all that stuff.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
If you get help and that's how you should do,
it's not that complicated. The process take a couple of
months open a company over here. It's pretty straightforward and
if you got the right partner that will help you,
that would lead you in the right direction. Is not
really complicated.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
So do you do you have like a silent Vietnamese
partner in the business or did you just like use
a sort of service there.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
They've you've got companies that are gonna help foreign to
celebrate business here. And that's what I did. I don't
have a local God betutiful, it's a one hundred person
foreign own company. But yeah, I couldn't do everything by myself.
The administration here is pretty tense. Is there's a lot

(06:31):
of paperwork to be done. Everything is in Vietnamese. When
you go into an illustrative buildings. You need someone who
can help you communicate with them. So, yes, you need
you need local help for all these different paperwork.

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What about the startup costs? Like, obviously you're what part

(07:32):
of France are you from? Originally sus A France?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
I'm from home seat.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Okay, So if I'm like down in the Mediterranean Pire beautiful,
Well that makes sense. Maybe they've ended up here and
not in Sygon. Yeah, what about the startup costs relative
to France? How much more affordable do you think it is?
Or no, it is to open a business in a
place like the nine.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
It's that case the cost at least the very least
only have It's not very difficult to open a small
thing of a gear. You don't need that much group
for building work and furnitures or rents. All these expenses
so much lower than in France.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
There's also a longer grace period for a lot of them.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
I mean, getting the business license, food search or t
gets and all that doesn't have to be set up
in the same pre emptive way that you need to
in a lot of the Western world, like where I'm
down in California, where just the business license alone is
going to take you months and months before you're allowed
to open. Whereas out here, like you said, it's you
made for entrepreneurs, or at least really really helpful and

(08:39):
incentivizing towards entrepreneurs, so they'll let you open up and
process all those things as we're opening, which helps a lot.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Why did you guys leave home, Like what was the
impetus or like sort of catalyst for you to leave
the south of France and to come to somewhere like
Vietnam to live.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
I'm a traveler. I studied traveling very early. I lived
in all different countries so far. So when I was nineteen,
I moved to Australia for two years. After Australia, I
moved to England. After England, I moved to Taiwan and
now Vietnam. The last twenty years I spent them outside France.
I like living in a foreign country. I like being

(09:17):
a foreigner in a strange place, a very different approach
to life. It's a very different way of living. We
feel more free, I say free. Like this. Back home,
there's a lot of convention. There's people expect you to
live your life a certain way. Rather than in a
foreign country, you like a free electrons. People don't really

(09:43):
expect from you to live your.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Life to this cultural norm that.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, you don't need to live up to others' expectations.
You're a foreign one, so it's normal that you're different
and people accept you like that.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
I think about the especially in terms of the cost.
So within the whole, you know, like back on the
idea of keeping up with the Jones is. I don't
know what the franch equivalent it is, but you certainly
know that this idea of like the more you earn,
the more you spend, So what are you Why did
you leave California?

Speaker 4 (10:10):
I mean, I also have always been really into traveling,
less living in other countries, but more just you know,
when I was in my twenties, I was doing backpacking
and things like that.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
The thirties as well, I supposed to.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
And I came out here originally because I had a
seasonal job for years in the US that afforded me
a few months.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Off every year.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
This is a beautiful place that I had some friends
love to come and visit, especially during the cold winter
time back in the States for older wintertienth. Eventually I
decided it was time to make the meat.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, you know, I was.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Tired of how the rising costs and everything in California.
There's plenty of like social political reasons as well that
you know, we're incentivizing to take off.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Kind of been on my mind for a long time.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
And when when did you first Uh not even permanently,
but just when did you first come to Vietnam?

Speaker 2 (10:58):
First came back here? In like twenty ten, I.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Believe it's almost fifteen years ago. How has it changed?
Like it's such a rapidly developing country. I feel like
I've seen more change in my six years here than
in some of the other countries I lived in for
decades or for much longer. Like, what's it been like
since you got here fifteen years ago?

Speaker 4 (11:17):
I'm mean, I remember the first stop light in Saigon
going and now you go to Saigon and traffic lights everywhere, right,
I mean, it's changed a lot, but in a really
progressive way, you know. I'd say, like, of all the
countries I've been to in my life, it's just been
a fair amount, you know, thirty or forty and spend
time in, there's been more, far more of like co
assimilative kind of change and growth here versus a lot

(11:40):
of other places. You know, it's not tourism based economy,
even though there's plenty of tourism. You don't run into
the same things you run into even Costa Rica, let
alone Thailand and places like that, where it's such a
tourism based economy that that kind of steers how growth goes.
Whereas in Vietnam, like it threw in a far more
you know, but organic assimilated it kind of a way,

(12:03):
at least it feels like to me, you know, And
like the art scene, the food scene, the beer scene,
like the craft beer scene, all those different things.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I've seen like really really.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Grow in a progressive way over the last fifteen years
and really attractive and like young driven one.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, it's got the It has the vibrancy and definitely
the energy of like youth in a way that like
back home in the West, feels old like. And I
don't mind it, right, Like all of us are sort
of above or over the median age in Vietnam, whereas
if we go home, you know, even though all of
us have a little bit of white hair, we're probably
younger than the average American or Canadian or Frenchman. How

(12:41):
long have you been in vinnims eight years? And so
what coming from? I don't know if you came direct
or not, but I've spent a good amount of time
in Taiwan around Taipei too. Taypei is so much more advanced,
so much more western, Like the infrastructure is so built up, right,
the first time I landed in Taipei, like, oh, this
is a fully realized city, right, whereas Vietnam is in

(13:05):
a lot of ways feels in transition. So what did
you feel like were the benefits of coming to Vietnam?

Speaker 3 (13:12):
I agree with what you just said. I remember in
Taiguan one of my friends campaid for a week vacation
and when it came back, you said, oh, Vietnam is incredible.
It's like Taiwan fifteen years ago. I think they're heading
in the right direction. But yes, Vietnam is ten years before.
So it's very dynamic. We can see things building and

(13:35):
destroying building again. You've got new places of putting every month,
others closing. It's very dynamic. It's very quick, and people
are going to chose in one place for reopen in
a different location. It's always in movement.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
It makes me think of like the sort of like
the speed or the velocity too. And I think this
would be probably surprising to a lot of people watching.
How long did it take you from you know, the
moment you landed in the Nang and started looking for
a location for this business to like opening the door
and pouring a drink.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Six months?

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Six months, and I took my time.

Speaker 3 (14:11):
It could have been a lot faster.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
We intentionally were nice and slow about it. And even then,
that's quicker than it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
In most of the Western absolutely, I mean in Toronto
and Canada, I'd be spend minimum a year dealing with
red tape and you know, basic stuff before you even
had like a building instructor come in and like examine
your bathrooms or your wheelchair accessibility, et cetera. Can you
walk me through like the timeline of like just I
think there were people out there who who were really

(14:39):
curious about what would it be like to move to
Vietnam and to do this, you know, to open up
a sort of dream business one hundred meters on the beach.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
And I didn't start looking for a location straight away.
First of all, I wanted to discover the city, see
if I like tickle, and so let's say the first months,
I just was around, visit the city, go to the beach,
go to the mountains, enjoy life, and realized I would
really love staying here. Looking for a place was quite quick,

(15:11):
because I don't believe you should be looking over and
over and over again for the perfect spots. You make
it perfect, You find a place with protectual and then
you transform it. It didn't take me a long time.
I think I saw maybe three or four different places
before deciding, okay, this is the one I want. You

(15:35):
need to be quick as well. You don't really have
a lot of time to think about it because you've
got a lot of people around that are interested in
the same place. So it's really you feel it with
your guts and if it's right, it's right. Maybe after
a couple of months, two months, three months, we found
this place. We made an offer very quickly, as several
people were on it, so we had to battle a

(15:57):
little lind and in c show that we were motivated,
and then everything happened very quickly.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
I mean, it's like you said about the culture, everything's
so fluid in dynamic, and it's kind of the way
that business starting and even finding a place goes as well.
It's like you said, like you can't sleep on a
place for a week and make a decision like it'll
be gone. You know, everything's too fluid, too quick to
dynamic here. So once we kind of made the decision
to jump on it and officially do it, fall.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Got rolling really quick.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
So yeah, how long was it from like the moment
you you know, did you have a Vietnamese real estate agent?
Presumably you're working with talk to some.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Real estate agents, but most of the places, I.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Mean, we went back and forth and in this place
we just kind of found outside of like the whole
realm of people we've been talking to and been searching through,
and it just kind of came up, you know, out
of nowhere, and we jumped on.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
It like on a Facebook page, like literally on a Facebook.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
So this is something I say to my ands A
lot is until you get to Vietnam. It's like Facebook
obviously his global satch creation, but you will not realize
how much you'll rely on it to like social groups, marketplace,
rent everything. Facebook it is the marketplace at.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Vienna even walking around. Walking around is actually one of
the best way to find a place. Real estates are
little agents, a bit complicated to work with because they're
trying to sell their products. They're not really listening to
what you want. The best is to do things by yourself.
There are websites and there's one called Shoots. People will

(17:32):
add with good adds on the property they want to rent.
That's a good way of finding a face because there's
no midlemare. So you really have the whole market under
your eyes, under a click, and it's easy to make
a choice. And you have a phone number, you give
a call, you visit the place so or just walking

(17:52):
around and jet dam they see that you need to
be rented. You often got a signed on the world.
A foot number usually one of the best way to
find a place. That's how I found my spots in
the portuning went out and about. It's just by walking
down the street and see your place with the sign

(18:13):
fault right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
I mean when we first moved here in an Bang,
it was a real estate agent that helped us find
what was really more of like a vacation or holiday
property out there at the beach. But then when we
found the house right now, I'm permanently in d Nang,
I just did that. I just drove snakes up and
down the streets and my motorcycle, you know, and I
had more of an idea after a couple.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Of months of what I was looking for.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
It's kind of that old school way pre Airbnb, that
most of us travelers figured out how to live places
or stage.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Places across the world.

Speaker 4 (18:39):
As you show up for a night or two at
the hotel and then go knocking on doors and searching
around the town, and most of that's not really available
in the world anymore, especially even for housing and out
here it's still perhaps the best, or at least.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
On par with the best way to go about things.

Speaker 4 (18:56):
I am.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'm gonna pitch my own product here too. So I do,
like course, teaching people how to you know, help them
literally move live abroad like you guys have like I
have in the guy to have on like where to
find a place to stay, where to find a place
to live, how to rent, how to buy. I also
have that website chot v linked. It's in there, and
it truly is a It can be a game changer,
I think, because you do get to deal direct with

(19:17):
landlords or with owners of properties and cut out agents.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's really you know, it fulfills
the same purpose that Facebook does. It's not as broad
across like, like not all the foreigners are using it,
so it's not quite you know, as universally known about
in Vietnam as Facebook is.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
But it's also a little bit more thorough than Facebook.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
In my apartment right now, I found, but most of
the places in the last few years that I've lived
at I've found via show toot my motorbikes, my homes,
my everything.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, it's a really good reason.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
So once you signed the lease. Once you had the place,
it was yours. How long for the build out? How
long to open the door? How do you find contractors?

Speaker 4 (20:03):
You know, for about three months. But even then, once again,
like we took our time intentionally, we know that, like
we had a good setup, we know when the tourism
was about to start up a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
You know, we had a fairly relatively cheap past getting.

Speaker 4 (20:18):
Into the whole thing, so we really wanted to make
sure we did it right, really had our plan worked out.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
What it is we wanted to do before we opened
the doors.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
So honestly, we probably could have opened the doors weeks earlier,
but we just wanted to get it really right.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
So it took us about three months.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Before we work And did you guys do the build out?
Did you it with the contractor?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
We didn't do a lot of building work in that sense,
we didn't build worlds and some part of the buildings
and remodeled the place. It was purely decoration, so that
was quite easy for us. How did you change a
bit of the painting? Did we change a bit of furniture?
Is around sim applying, We got lucky because very quickly

(20:59):
when I we arrived in that No, we managed to
meet people working in this industry and they were really
helpful electricians of furniture shop, second hands for kitchen equipment
and all this. We quickly got some address, some places
to go to, so it wasn't really a problem. Then

(21:22):
it's needy looking for suppliers and things like that, it's
the same through contact. We got hooked with all these people,
so everything came quite natural. We didn't struggle in finding
all these people. The community, the foreign community. He was
really supportive and helpful, so that was a really nice surprise.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
I got very big.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Being out here agree with the Westerners. We're trying to
start businesses. There really is a very supportive community about.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Your formers soon the certain things.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
And we've received just pretty much nothing but positive encouragement
and like actual help, not just like offers for help,
but like beings really really come through and being you know,
fortunate for us. It's like a good, good community out
here of other people.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
So how how did you get in touch with that community?
What are some of the ways they supported you in
terms of getting in touch with I don't know, just
kind of happened that you meet people that like out
of bars in person, on Facebook, all all.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Of you, but I might say mostly through through just
being out and then through word of mouth through other
friends like friends of friends and friends of them, et cetera,
et cetera, and everything everything from once again like finding
electricians and shops, friendly advice without being cushy in any way,
like actual helpful advice on different ways to go about

(22:43):
our build up and our whole concept. I mean, everything's
been like really really really helpful. And then also coming
bin and succording us as customers as well.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Nice you know.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
So how well, let's talk about that. How's it been
since the door is open? How long have you been open?

Speaker 3 (22:57):
We've been opening well three weeks now. It's been doing
pretty well. We're quite happy about the crowd we get here.
We happy as well about what we offer and how
the plays turned out. So now it's been great. It's
the beginning, so it's always a little up and down.
Sometimes it's very exciting, sometimes it's very bit scary, but

(23:19):
no complaign, it's a been great.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I have the sem I apologize to you guys, because
you know, I got two little kids. I truly am
never out at night anymore. So I've only ever been here.
You know, when you're opening up in the afternoon and
it's super relaxed and chill. What's the vibe like at night?
What is the offer? What kind of food and drink
you guys offering, what kind of crowds coming in?

Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, the idea when opening this place was to make
it from ittery drinking and eating ten of places and
not too formal, quite relaxed and laid back. So the
concept of tapas bar became very clear, very quickly. We're
making small plates easy to eat. A lot of the

(24:01):
dish we do you can just eat them with your hands.
It's and you can just nibble and share it with
other people. We do a lot of small plaques, so
the ideas to pick a few of these and share
with friends. Have a blass of wine. We have people
here as well coming for just putting a drink. We

(24:23):
we have a nice signature cocktail list. You can see.
It's comfortable, not too formal.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Chin of things.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, when it's right off the Anton tourist walking streets,
it's i don't know, maybe five minutes to the beach
at the most on foot so it's it truly is
in the heart of the sort of expat district or
the expat I guess, yeah, walking street, there's not another
way to call it. So what are some of your favorites?
What's your favorite menu items or your cocktail that your
man can make them, Particularly towards the Cherisa procusts. I

(24:55):
don't have many opportunities for Cherisa out here, and as
a California boy, I miss st Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Beyond that, obviously the steak because it's a great steak.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
It does a great gm chery sauce on it, and
this could be I mean, all the plates are great.
As far as the cocktails, I'm a big fan of
all of them. I think that are endless Summer, which
is like the Passion food kind of a take on
a whiskey sour almost probably my personal favorite. Yeah, but
there's a few of them that sell really well and repeat,

(25:27):
like the hibiscus elder flowers.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
Well, for me, this I got a different view on
it because I designed the food menu and everything is
pretty close to my heart. It comes from my childhood.
It's very Mediterranean, this is where I grew up. There's
a lot of things, a lot of recipe I picked
up from the niaf food So Niss is a big

(25:50):
city next to high from from Montica. E Nice is
a food from Prolongs. So I'd say I really like
the socca. Socca is a chickpea kind of galet and
it's something I used to eat when I was going
to the markets on Sundays. I like as well as

(26:14):
in the Sous of France, we do a zucchini flower benier.
We confined zucchini flowers over here, but they have pumpkin
flowers which pretty much the same. So I've been doing
this dish over here. That is a reminiscence of my childhood.
What else I don't know. Hao do desserts and just
like French toes, and it's something I used to do

(26:37):
when I was kid. I spent afternoon making do and
stuffing myself.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Lost bread. Is that amazing? This lost bread, the.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Stained bread you've got in the kitchen that you're gonna
dip in milk can and eggs and then fry on
the pen had a lot of sugar. And the way
we do here, we fly, we floambate who is rum
and we cook it with pineapple?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
How beautiful?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
So yeah, you know it's it's delicious. Six Comfort Food
it's sweet and warm and delicious and beautiful.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, so not just a place where a drink, definitely
a place it enjoy the meals.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Let's shift now into sort of more focused questions about
Vietnam Sore, but yeah, these are really about your perceptions
of Vietnam, your experience of Vietnam. So we've talked a
little bit about how the XPAC community and the other
entrepreneurs and business owners have really helped you out. How
do you feel as a foreigner you've been sort of
treated by locals Rebelli Viats obviously have a different kind

(27:41):
of contact or relationship with the Viat community as a
business owner as opposed to tourists. So what's that like.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Vietnamese are really welcoming people. If you go there with
the right attitude, they give it back to you. They've
been really helpful too. We quickly got to meet locals
in this area. Old Tin people be living in bond
in the street and live the whole life over here.
These people are very nice, very friendly. If they can help,

(28:10):
they woulds and they hear for you. It's all about
giving and receiving if you're ready to be open to them.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
I mean Vietnam is interesting with you know, you definitely
still feel you definitely still feel.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like you're a foreigner out here. You recognize that that still.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
There's a separation in culture, maybe because the economy here
isn't based as much of tourism as a lot of
places that Westerners and next pats tend to like to
set up shop. There's it feels like there's far less
of a split between those two cultures as there are
in like a Thailand or a Costa Rico or in India,
where you don't really feel as fully separated, and that

(28:48):
you know it's just foreigners living across the street from Vietnamese,
like there is a lot more co assimilation and cold
cultural living here and that I find in a lot
of other nations.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Obviously in Psycho on It, I really felt like that
I've been a bit surprised by denying which this is
a sort of mean or antungue. And then I live
up a couple kilometers from here, up the beach in Sunchaw,
which are both beachside. In other words, this is the
tost the tourist driven or tourist part of the city,
but even within the tourist part of the city, Like

(29:21):
you said, I mean, I have neighbors who this is
their generational homes, generational communities, and it's odd that it
does really feel intermingled. They're blended, right like, even though
this is the tourist side, and there's parts of it
that just feel so local to me, right.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Like, yeah, you know, actually that really really acts on
that interesting when I moved to Danang, because I've loved
Saigon for years. I lived down there, and that was
part of the reason I love Saigon so much, like
it feels like such a more integrated society in terms
of all the different influences, including all the local ones.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
And honestly, I was worried that Danang wasn't going to
have them.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
And I've traveled a little bit just to cationing here
in the past, and I can see the larger tourism
industry comparative to say Saigon, you know, like there's more,
especially in this local area. You know, there's more of
an emphasis on the tours and on tourists.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Going by, and that really worried me that it was
going to be more of that separation quite a bit.

Speaker 4 (30:18):
Since I've been here, honestly, it's been like a fantastic
surprise as to like how much once again like more
integrated seeing all of that really is.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
I still don't have that same feeling of like being a.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Tourist outsider that I was worried that maybe i'd have
more in Dennang and that not in other places in
the world, may not have that full metropolitan integration that
a Saigon has, But it's it's clips.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Honestly and far lesser than I thought.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I think that a little bit, and I'm just gonna
talk to my experience of it well. Spending our first
few months in Joian, I really felt that in Joian
in a way I never felt in Vietnam such a one.
It's not just a tourist economy. It's it's like a
tourist stop, you know, it's like a pit it's a
UNESCO site, it's a pit stop on the way. And
I felt my wife did. My wife had a whose

(31:06):
Vietna had a wonderful experience. I loved the locals, they
were so friendly, so kind. I really felt that classic
like God, I couldn't live here because to be groundhog
Day and I'd be treated treated like a tourist, like
I just showed up today every single day of my life,
whereas I haven't felt that in the name. And maybe
it's just there's you know, there's a million people in
the city, so that relatively there's there really is so

(31:27):
few I like you.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
I asked myself which of the two city I would take,
and I came exactly to the same conclusion that I
love how you and I think he's beautiful. Yes, it's
a great little town. It's only a tourist hotspot, and
that On is a real city where people believe that
people work, and you've got different sector of activity. It's

(31:50):
not just a beautiful post out here.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
You have a progressive, growing music scene, art scene, you know,
youth culture, all those different things here, kind of like Saigon,
especially like Saigon a few years ago, as it was
just really blowing up and nothing against hooy On whatsoever.
But it's lacking that in a sense, just because there's
so much more of an emphasis just on bringing in

(32:13):
the tourists, you know, really building up a place for
them in that sense at business levels.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
And that look, that's not just an East West divide,
right There's like towns and cottage country. There's towns in
California there's towns in France where it's like that's the economy,
right for four months of the year, a zillion. You know,
people from out of town, from out of the state,
from out of country show up, flood the place with
flood the economy. You know, they're there just to be

(32:41):
served to whatever, eat their French fries, their burger, or
drink wine and wine country in France, and then get
out of there. So I still love Joyan, but yeah,
just to live, maybe to open a business. I don't
think it was Fremiere. What about the language bearer. Do
either of you guys speak viet how's your immersion gone.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I'm a bit ashamed to say I'm not speaking Vietnamese.
I know a few words, but that's about it.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Numbers in food we speak English.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
Yeah, we're lucky to have English as an international language
and people here, most people speak English. So it's not
really a big issue for everyday things. When it gets
a little small pointy, yes, see, it can become a
problem when you go to do you go to administrative
buildings for example, Yes, then it becomes a problem. But

(33:33):
in your everyday life it's not really an issue. Of course,
to learn Vietnamese. I think if you speak the language,
your experience is going to be very different, a lot deeper.
You're really gonna participate and enjoy whole aspect of this country.
You'll have a different vision. You won't be the foreigner,

(33:57):
lender foreigner, but you'll be someone that is interested in
the culture and in the people. So it's a big plus.
I've lived in Taiwan before. It took me a while,
but at one point I've learned Chinese and I really
saw a big difference in the attitude of people. When
you manage to communicate with them in their own language,

(34:19):
you gain a credibility, you gaining attractiveness in you become
more interesting as well.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
But in terms of difficulty, it's not a lot of difficulty.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
You mean, yeah, there's not a lot of difficulty in
surviving without.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
The act absolutely. I mean it's you know, for when
it helps, that is the Roman alphabet. I'm so so
even just recognizing things that you have learned becomes a
lot easier as time goes on. And then it's also
you know, I mean over the world, it's gotten easier
and easier over the years now that we have like
the Google Translate and everything, but that's so ingrained here

(34:56):
or even and it's better if.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
You speak the language, of course, it's nice.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
But if you don't, unless you're in an administratibility and
dealing with some kind of bureaucratic thing.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
People are pretty easy going.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
People speak English a fair amount, and everybody has their
Google Translate ready on their phone for any kind of
simple communication.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
And even then it really comes up.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
And I mean that's what I think too, when I
like talk to the specific problems concerns about my audience,
the worries they have of living abroad, you know, in
Southeast Asia in general and Vietnam, those are the big things.
Don't screw around with. Get help with, right, Like when
you have to go to the paperwork, you have to
go to bureaucracy for your visas, for your opening a business,
for sometimes for healthcare insurance type of things. Right, that's

(35:38):
what you just in that part. Get help, get a translator,
have a you know.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
In those situations, it's it's kind of huge and a
huge boon, you know.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I mean, honestly, I mean, I haven't spent a ton
of time in France, but I've spent some months there
A few times in my.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Life, I have an easier time communicating with people here
in France. I can believe that.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Yeah, And if I was thinking, like, you know, the
difficulties that people have, like moving abroad and always language
and communication is one of the big fears that everybody,
you know, everybody always happened talk to people for years,
and that's always.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Like one of the first questions, well, how do you communicate?

Speaker 4 (36:13):
And I'd say, like, out of all the nations I've
been too, honestly, it's it's easier out here and in
much of Southeast Asia in general, but especially in Vietnam
then a number of countries I've been swimming. And part
of that is that everybody, for the most part, is
is really open to communication, and it's tempting communication and
trying to work with you. And I don't want to

(36:35):
like make generalizations towards any other nations, but I've been
to a number of places where it doesn't feel like
that's part of the social normal. People want to try
to help out and make it easier for you to
get by and to communicate, and here it's absolutely.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, I think about it a lot, you know it
After my sort of first year in Mexico. I really,
I went to classes, I went all in, I became
fluent in Spanish. In some ways, maybe it's it's literally
easier to learn Spanish than it is to learn Vietnamese.
But I do think a lot about if part of it, too,
is just that you're so clearly a gringo and an

(37:10):
outsider in Mexico. Like you, you're a very set class
of outsider if you don't bother to learn Spanish, right, Like,
and I don't'm not blaming Mexicans for ting to be
like they should, that's part of their culture, right, But
in Vietnam it does sometimes feel like, you know, this
culture is more or less ninety nine percent Vietnamese, right,
It's a it's a monoculture here. It's a one language

(37:31):
culture for the most part. I know there's ethnic minorities,
but you know, the bureaucratic, the state largely speaking, compared
to most places, almost no expectation of foreigners to learn
the language, right, It's like the language is so embedded
in their culture that it's just like, you're not Viat,
why would you speak Viat? And when you speak even
a little bit of that vieat right, Like my basic

(37:53):
like I sit at the cafe by my house, I
order a coffee. I know how to say the numbers
or read the numbers, how to say hello. I feel
like people are really appreciated about that in a way
where it's like, you know what I mean, Like it's
a hard just thing to explain.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
I mean, you know, there's been like a long history
in this country, you know, over the last one hundred
hundred and fifty years of like Western European influences and
in some forceful ways more so than a lot of
nations you know that don't have that or that do
have that same language Gaire. You know, I think that
it's it's become pretty ingrained, you know, with like France

(38:27):
and then you know everything in their China War area,
Like it's been pretty ingrained to have Westerners out here
and to have people that are foreign speaking and not
really trying to get into the language and better or
for worse, like it's been generations of people growing up
with that normality.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
That's an interesting take.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Yeah, you know, so whether or not it's intended it's
just like an openness thing, or if that's just like
the happeningstance like outcome.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Of that either way. Yeah, there's not a huge expectation
for people to try to learn the language.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
There's been already a long time of people coming out
here and having some kind of economic influence in this
country without them, and in fact, the language has influenced
Vitnamese language so much hence the Roman alphabet, you know,
a couple hundred years ago, there's no Roman alf built
where it's because of the French influence. So they'd been
integrative with the whole language thing for a long time

(39:17):
and open obviously to it to some level of that
co assimilation, without expectation that people are going to just
convert everything to the being Themese way or the Benamese
language just to get by.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
It's interesting. I mean, it's another one that you know,
communist state for a long time. But freedom of religion,
plurality of religion, right unlike some other states that were
you know, a part of the whatever Soviet sphere of
the world. All of the churches are still here right
the entire time. Catholicism, Buddhism, the cowde all those religions
were openly practiced, they were never suppressed. It is a

(39:53):
very different vibe than some other places. So what's something
some advice you would give, you know, something maybe they
haven't thought of for that person, sort of on the fence.
I want to come. I want to do what you did,
you know. I want to come to Vietnam and open
and beach bar. I want to get the fuck out
of my office job and have a cafe or something
on a street corner.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I don't know, man, I hate to be like Nike
about it, but just to do it.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
It's not more complicated now that the first step is
always the hardest to take here. Once here, it's yeah,
you just go to go for it.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
You can be scary, like any big change doesn't have
to be like moving abroad, like any big change in
life can.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Be really really scary.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
And as most of us forcibly one way or another,
I've learned in life it's really not hard.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
It's not that big of a deal. Like you carry
on and you figure things out.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
Everywhere has has its ups, its downs, it's difficulties, it's
unexpected conveniences for you know, especially for foreigners who have
been thinking about moving abroad who have never done so.
I think there's a big not missing understanding their misconception,
just maybe a bit of a naive tae towards how
large an international community is and how many people are

(41:09):
already doing it and have been already doing it, and
almost anywhere you move in the world, and Vietnam is
absolutely no exception to this.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
It's a shining example.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
Like there's a community of people that you're already familiar
with who are doing the same thing, who have done
the same thing, will help you out. I mean, it's
one of those things you really don't understand if you're
not traveling around or living abroad, like how many other
people are really doing it and how normalized in the
sense it already is. So it's not like you don't

(41:37):
have to break new ground. You know, you're not like
breaking the mold on something and nobody has ever done that.
You have to like, you know, you're not navigating into
into a dark, stormy sea. It's like well navigated the
entire way. There's signposts telling you whech direction to go
and how to do it, and there's other cool people
you know in the same situation.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
So that's the biggest thing is just do it, because
it's really not as scary as it initially seen.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
I completely agree with him. I don't have much more
to say. I think if you come here with an
idea as a French person, I have my own example
as a French person. I'm working in fm B. It's
bringing a little part of your culture is something that
give us an edge. We come here and we can

(42:24):
we bring part of culture, our way of life. We
come here to propose something different. That was a bit
my idea when I arrived here, and I'm like, I
worked a bit everywhere. I worked friends in England, I
got a big experience and coming here I see things
I could do. I have vision. I think it's just

(42:47):
about that you need to come with your dream, your idea.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I have a good friend actually do.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
Probably seen in years who just came out here. She's
from Florida originally Alignment, and she's never left the country.
She's never left the US, and she's like in our
all relative age range as well, and it's her first
time and it's like a big scary.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thing for her.

Speaker 4 (43:09):
Obviously she went through all these exact same things that
you're talking about, Like, you know, she's a foreigner who's
never gone abroad, has thought about it for years and
finally because she had some friends.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Out here, she decided to take that step.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Been here only three weeks, she's already got herself in
an apartment, she has a plan for the next six months,
a year, and she's eleven.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And overnight the world opened up and realized, shit, it's
not that tough. You know, years and years of like
being afraid of, like how big of a.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Move it is. Meanwhile, like you know, in North America,
we can move across the country and move to another
state all day long, and I feel that weird about it.
That's the cultural difference between somewhere in the South and
California and New York is.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
It's huge, and sometimes given the communication difference, it's huge.
And so it's not that really, it's not that big of.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
A jump to do it in a four in sends either,
and when people do it tends to be very quickly
that they realize it's not that much different in the
ways that I was afraid. It's only different in the
ways that are exciting and new and interesting. But in
terms of the difficulties, like you've already probably navigated most
of the difficulties you're going to have to navigate here

(44:20):
because everyone wants to know in the end, of the day.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
How much did it cost? How much does it cost
to open a bar in Vietnam to start your dream?

Speaker 3 (44:28):
It can get really high. Of course, it depends on
the concept of path. That you can start a small
restaurant place for eightyton thousand US eight a fake before
even do it for cheaper than that's absolutely yeah, it's
ay the bare minimum thirty five thousand, and you can't
do something. You need to be careful go things one

(44:51):
step by the time. Asia is very typical in the
sense that a meal can cost one dollar or two
hundred three hundred dollars. There's a very wide range of prices.
If you're looking for something simple, it's you can do it.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
There's not much here.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
I mean, I think that's like the interesting thing, right
there is that full spread of dynameters in there, Like
it's really whatever you want to do. If you want
to come in here and try to start something really cheap, like,
there's people doing that and it's successful to do so.
If you want to come in here and try to
start like a really expensive fancy restaurant bar that's available,
you can do that. You know, like you said, you
can spend a dollar on food or two hundred own food.

(45:32):
You can spend ten dollars a night, or you can
spend five thousand dollars a night. There is something fully
within that range or everything in between. So as an entrepreneur,
it's the same thing. You know, it depends on what
you're trying to do, but there's a wide, wide accessibility.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
I'm thirsty. What was it cost to get a cocktail here?

Speaker 3 (45:51):
Between one hundred and ten and one hundred and forty.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Four to six dollars? Right, but four to six dollars
US so for a beautiful cocktail by the beach?

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Quite reasonable? Like overall, if you take all venues and stuff. Yeah,
it's going to be between this ranch. She can go
up to two for coptail.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
I like to wrap up with one last question, which
is I asked the people I'm interviewing on the cost
of loving abroad. What's the thing I didn't ask you?
What's the question that you're waiting for me to ask
or that I should have asked, or I could have
asked my next guest, because obviously we all make mistakes,
whether I'm moving abroad, whatever, opening a business. What can
I ask next time? What should have asked you?

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Oh maybe as a French person, we always grumpy, are
always negative. So yeah, that that's why we could have
explored as well the netgative aspect of living here. What's
it difficult? And sometimes a little bit how did you
say frustrating?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
For straight? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I mean I have whole lists of the most frustrating
shit about living in Vietnam.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
You see, been very positive?

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Well yeah for a while, I love it. Let's go
let's go dark at the end.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
So what what's reading thing?

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Is the most frustrating aspect of opening this business for you?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Soirl? So far?

Speaker 3 (47:04):
Deal with banks, ha, it can sometimes be a little
little narrow minded and not aware of the law. You
arrive and I've got this funny story my previous business.
So every time on payday, I had to go to
the bank with my work permit, my contracts, my pay

(47:25):
sleep so they could organize the transfer. And I used
to go to all the ways the same bank. And
one day I decided to go to a difference and
when I ride there, the girl looked at me and said, no, sorry,
I can't do that. He said, your career And I said,
but hold on a minute. This is my company, this

(47:47):
is my contract, I work for them, I got the worker,
I got all the papers, said she said, no, I'm sorry,
I cannot do that.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
And this is keip me mine. You're talking about just
going to a different branch of the same of your bank,
right like.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Right down the street. No, it's not like it's in
a different town or part of the nation.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
It's like, you really got to keep aude with this.
You'll get these How do you pull that the head bump?
You really need to stay chilled and not get angry
about jeans. Sometimes it works, sometimes it sounds it's okay.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Expecting unexpected for sure, it'll be like, you know, it's weird,
the things like coming from California, I expect, you know,
the business license itself to be one of the most
difficult things, long, painstaking, expensive bureaucratic processes. And this is
a nation known for its difficult bureaucracy. So I can't
here expecting that to just be the biggest process. So simple, straightforward,

(48:49):
is easy. We had somebody to take care of it
for us real quick. Meanwhile, finding these light bulbs edison
bolts that are dimmable in Denay took us. It took
us longer than business license to find a dimmable bowl.
We're so used to being in places where there's just accessible,
you know, for better or worse, box stores and sell all.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
These different things. And even in Saigone it's pretty easy. Well,
there's a little.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Things you're not expecting, like this one little product you
want to find, you know, that one little thing that
seems like should come really easy, and that's the thing
that's going to be really difficult out here.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
But meanwhile, there's a bunch of other silver pattern it's
just being handed to you that.

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Are normally a very difficult and inconvenient thing and a yeah,
so open mind.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Thank you guys so much for coming on the Costing
a broad If you're heading abroad anytime soon or making
the leap to Southeast Asia, use the link below pinned
in the comments or at the top of the description,
or just click and capture this QR code. Over my
Shoulder thanks so much for watching this week's episode of
the Cost of Living a broad pod, brought to you

(49:57):
by Safe Doing Nomad Insurance. You can find more episodes
of the pod over my Shoulder, or check out the
cost of Living Abroad dot com right here.

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Escape the West, Open a Bar in Vietnam (Da Nang Cost of Living Interview)

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