I QUIT My DREAM Job to be a Digital Nomad (A Year Abroad in Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Bali)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wow, I feel like there's really a hunger for content
about DNA. Meet the cheapest city in Southeast Asia, and
this video has nearly a million views and got me
so many thousands of followers. I love it, and wood
probably my favorite place on my entire trip around the world.
Danang was definitely much cheaper what I was paying in

(00:22):
Bali was worth it. Bali is just a lot more fun.
And yeah, I mean it's breathtaking. I mean you're just
sitting on the back of this motorbike being driven all
across like these stunning rolling green landscapes.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I was chased by vicious dogs.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Walking through the neighborhood to get to my airbnb, and
it was like one of the scariest experiences I've ever had.
I mean, I had my phone stolen out of my
pocket in Cambodia, and then eventually someone on a motorbike
drove by, wrapped snatched it out of my back pocket
and drove off. Oh yeah, that was probably the worst experience,

(01:05):
the worst day of my moment of my travels for sure.
I spent a total of thirty four thousand dollars on
that entire journey. I felt like my life wasn't worth
living unless.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I did that trip.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm Evan's the Costling Abroad Pod and I'm really excited
to meet and talk to you, Helen, So the introduce
yourself and basically tell us your story about living abroad
and traveling abroad.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, totally thanks for having me. So in twenty twenty two,
I basically quit my dream job as a video journalist
at a major company to fulfill my dream that I'd
had for at least ten years of traveling the world
full time. For a year and a half, so I

(01:45):
hit eighteen countries across South America in Asia. Started in
South America, did six countries, and then I spent a
year in Asia. So my three months in South America,
I went home and rested for about a month and
a half, and then I went to Asia and did
twelve countries is across Southeast Asia as well as Korea, Japan,

(02:11):
and China. So, man, I mean, where to even begin
about what that journey was?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Like, Yeah, that's incredible. Let's jump into your basics, like
your sort of aailely mamach you're spending especially in Southeast Asia.
I know, like I've traveled a lot in China, you know,
my experts to South America like you, and then to
Asia's primarily as like a traveling teacher. But the budgets

(02:40):
can vary so much. So what were you budgeting sort
of for your dunch in dinner?

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Oh well, China, I think does vary a lot because
you can either eat in like really nice restaurants. You
can eat like street food where super cheap. You know,
I was privileged in China in the sense that I
have relatives all over China, and so I was visiting
a lot a lot of my relatives and they were
taking me out to eat at nice restaurants all the time.

(03:04):
So my China budget is a little skewed because of that.
But if I had to, let's say I was on
my own for a day, my daily budget being because
I tend to eat in you know, like mid food
and mid range restaurants, so I might spend twenty five
dollars on food per day twenty dollars.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
And as you know, I'm I'm located in Vietnam, and
that's how I found you, and you posted your Dnang content,
which of course I'll link those videos below. They're great
tell us about how the costs, say of twenty five
dollars a day in China, or maybe your costs at
home in California compared to what you'd spend on food
in a day in Danang, or maybe in Thailand somewhere.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
My daily budget in Danang was twenty five dollars for everything,
you know, across hotel, transportation, food, a little bit of shopping.
Where you know, at Heina, it was like twenty twenty
five dollars just for food.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
And I would say if you.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Were traveling in the US, for example in Los Angeles, California,
which is where I'm based, I feel like twenty to
twenty five dollars is a really cheap one meal, you know,
that's like really cheap for just one meal at like
a hole in the wall.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Maybe a step up from fast food, but like you know,
chicken them waffles or a diner type. Yeah, like a
diner like bacon and eggs and toasts or.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Something definitely like, yeah, exactly, like a hearty diner meal.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
You said that you were doing about twenty five dollars
total budget a day in Denial, which will work out
to about seven hundred and fifty USD a month. Where
did you go in the rest of the region. Like,
what give me your sort of itinerary for Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, so I started in Thailand.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I did a month in Thailand, then I did about
a week in Laos, then two weeks in Cambodia, two
to three weeks in Cambodia, then to Vietnam. So I
actually did Vietnam twice. So my first time in Vietnam
was Saigon, a few days in Saigon, and then it

(05:24):
was Danang for a week and Huoyan for about a
week as well, and then from there I went to
Korea for three weeks, and then Japan for a month,
and then to Malaysia for two weeks, then to Singapore

(05:46):
for about a week, then to Bali for about two months.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Oh my goodness, this is a I mean, it's incredible.
It's like you've lived out the reality of a lot
of people's idealized trips, right. I mean, so many people
sort of dream of that full around the world, around
Asia experience all at once, but I don't think it's
that common to actually do it. So I think, congratulations,

(06:13):
that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's not only the half of it. That's only the
half half of the Asia trip.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
How was the experience at eating for you and the
cost in Saigon, Hochyumen City, my old home versus the
Nang or.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Oyan Oh, the cost of eating and.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
The enjoyment that both the cost and what your experience
of it was.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Honestly, I didn't really feel that the cost of food
across Vietnam varied in a so much in a way
that was that noticeable, you know, like it was really cheap.
I feel like across all of Vietnam, so wild de
Nang might have been a little cheaper. I don't think

(07:00):
it was like so noticeable because it was already very cheap,
or at least the food the place, the restaurants I
was eating at were very cheap. You can get a
good a good meal for like two to five dollars
across Vina.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean that was my what's your.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Favorite breakfast in Vietnam? You wake up? What are you
gonna eat?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
But I really love you know, do you know how
Vietnamese dish that comes with like it's dry, it's not
wet food, it's not like a soup, it's not noodles,
but it comes with and you eat with your hand.
You can eat with your hands and you dip it
in this like kind of tangy sauce. They're like little
cuts of meat, little cuts of tofood.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
Oh yeah, boondao, ma'am Tom. That's the famous stinky dip noodle.
So it's like a fermented shrimp sauce. Very famous. Yeah,
and then oh that's a classic. Yeah, it's that's a
annoying dish.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
But because it has all those like textures, you know,
like I love the play on textures.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, and it has hots, cold crunch, mushi, gelatinous. Right,
you do night life staff events? Are you're a drinker?
How does that affect your budget?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
You know what's interesting?

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Because thing that's I think looking back in high I
think in hindsight, the thing that surprised me about my
trip was how little of that that I actually did.
Because I've definitely gone through phases of life where I
was going out all the time, you know, drinking a
little too much and part you know, really enjoying partying.

(08:29):
But during my travels where it was very very cheap
to party, alcohol is really cheap and it's very easy
to go out and party with like the hostile crowd, right,
I didn't that much.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
And I didn't even drink that much.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Even though like you can get nice cocktails for like
four dollars, four to six dollars. I feel like the
most I ever paid for a cocktail was like ten
bucks at like the fanciest like beach club in Bali,
But typically cocktails were like four to six dollars.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
In my experience, even at the most expensive cocktail bar
in Vietnam, you're not going to pay more than ten
bucks for a drink, like just it's not going to happen,
whereas you know one and a half times at double
at fifteen or twenty bucks in Bangkok is pretty realistic.
So this is a curious one. The next budget line
is actually about gym, yoga, health membership, stuff like that.

(09:28):
But I think there's an interesting tye in here. When
you're traveling for fifteen months, how do you stay healthy?
How do you exercise?

Speaker 1 (09:34):
So I was walking a lot, but yeah, I mean,
you know, there were definitely sometimes periods of days where
I would be mostly chilling and not really walking that much,
and I would be you know, going from home to
different cafes and restaurants, and you know, riding on the
back of a motorbike to get from point A to

(09:55):
point B. So, yeah, there were times I didn't exercise
that much, but it was mostly walking or hiking, you know.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Sometimes I would take hiking excursions.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Let's segue into then your your actual transportation around Southeast
Asia and Vietnam. You said you started in the south
and sort of worked your way up right through Danang
and then up towards Hanoi. How did you get around
the country and how much did it cost? Like, give
me the full breakdown of your South to North Vietnam itinerary.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Hmm. So let's see, I started in Saigon and I
flew to Danang and I think that flight was somewhere
maybe about eighty dollars something like that. So I went
from China to Hanoi. Yeah, and basically I was going

(10:51):
all over the north of Vietnam for about almost a month,
I think, Yeah, I was there almost a month, and
that's when I traveled all over on by either bus
or van. And I think that a ticket from for example,

(11:13):
Hanoi to Suppa was about ten to fifteen dollars, and
it's like a five hour journey, let's say, like several hours.
I think we were lucky, like everything went really smoothly.
It was really good weather.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
What was your total cost for a month of traveling
around about northern Vietnam? Like your transportation costs.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
I have my total cost for North Vietnam on a spreadsheet.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
So I went from Hanoi to.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Sappa to Hadjiang to nin Bin to Halong Bay and
back to Hanoi.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Oh yeah, it's a big, beautiful loop. What time of
year were you there?

Speaker 1 (11:54):
It was November, okay, a little bit chili, yeah yeah,
slightly chilly. Yeah yeah, it was like no complaints.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Yeah yeah, I feel like this season and white winter,
so but like you know, sweater weather players. Did you
do Hazaiang on the back of a motorbike?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, oh yeah that was amazing.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
So what did you pay for the Hasang tour and
how was it?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (12:24):
So I think I paid about three hundred dollars for
about a four day tour.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And yeah, I mean it's breathtaking.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I mean you're just sitting on the back of this
motorbike being driven all across like these stunning rolling green
landscapes and passing through villages. It's a lot of driving,
you know, And I almost had a very almost like
near very dangerous accident. Actually it was raining, and we

(12:58):
were passing through like a village and there like heavy
traffic on the road, and for some reason, I was
like falling asleep.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
I think it's like.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Sometimes, you know, the the bouncing motion of the motorbike
can kind of like start lulling you to sleep. And
so I almost fell asleep on the back of the motorbike.
And I actually I literally yeah, fell asleep, and I
started falling, and then my driver sensed it and like

(13:27):
went like this and blocked me from falling, like he yeah,
like he blocked me from falling. And then I woke
up because otherwise, like I would have tumbled onto the
ground and been hit by traffic like the other motorbikes.
They were telling me how much how incredibly lucky that
I was.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Because it could have been a really serious injury.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
So I'm like just really grateful for you know, the
guys who were driving us.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's intense. I try not to
like harp on it too much, but when I talk
to people who are curious about coming to Vietnam, or
thinking seriously about relocating here, or even just sort of
wintering here, like the danger of the motorbikes and road
safety in Southeast Asia and Vietnam in particular, can't like
you can't understate it. It's intense, it's super dangerous. I

(14:16):
think one of the reasons why it's probably much better
idea to take a guided tour is that I think
when they just let sort of inexperienced cyclists and motorcycle
drivers go up there before, like there used to be
a lot more of that. I think there's a lot
of accidents. I think a lot of people like literally
just crashed their bikes and fell out side of the hill.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Oh yeah, Like I definitely knew during my entire journeys
in Asia, I had zero interest in ever learning to
how to drive a motorbike. I was just going to
let the professionals do that. Are I would maybe travel
like a couple miles on each of my journeys. But yeah,
it was so cheap, Like I think there was one

(14:56):
day that I took like ten rides because I was
going all over and yeah, I mean it probably cost
like five dollars something like that.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Accessible. What did you do to sort out your phone
situation and your Wi Fi when you're traveling were you.
Did you get like an e SAM package? Were you
buying SIM cards from country to country or did you
set it up before you left home? How did you
solve that problem?

Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah? I was really lucky because I had a plan
with T Mobile.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
It was about forty dollars a month that included international
data and texting.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
But it wasn't high speed data. It was pretty slow.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
But you know, I could navigate places using that data.
I could use Google maps, I could google things, you know,
so I never had to worry about buying local sims
or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
That's it. I mean, that's incredible. That's a really good package.
I mean, forty dollars a month is a little over
a dollar a day or something a dollar thirty and
you're able to I've never heard of someone doing it
that way, just having a great package at home. So
maybe guess that works out about five hundred dollars or
something for the whole year of travel and you're completely sore.
Oh what kind of health insurance or travel insurance we're

(16:21):
using you're abroad?

Speaker 1 (16:22):
I used World Nomads, so I probably spent a total
of maybe up to two thousand dollars on travel health
insurance for that year and a half through World Nomads,
which is just a.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Travel insurance provider.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Super easy to sign up for it online for sure.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah. Yeah, so I've used World Nomads and then I
also do like I'm in an affiliate ambassador for safety
Wing and they have a Nomad insurance package. I think
they both. It depends. It's so dependent on where you're
going and what your age is, too, right, I know
that on the safety Wing one they have a little
calculator you can use to figure out your monthly costs,

(17:05):
but it's it's really bare. I would imagine a pretty
good chunk of your budget. If it's over one hundred
dollars US a month, and you know, you said you're
getting by in a place like Vietnam for seven hundred
and fifty a months, that works out to twenty percent
or something, so it's it's a real chunk of it.
Did you do a lot of you know, day experiences

(17:28):
or half day tours or walking tours around Vietnam or
other parts in Southeast Asia? Mm?

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Oh yeah, I mean I did a lot of those
day tours. Like I feel like something that's super common
across Southeast Asia is taking a day excursion that's maybe
about eight hours. You can shop around purchase one. I
feel like I typically paid between twenty to thirty dollars

(17:58):
for one of these day excursions, which I feel like
is an amazing price for what you're getting.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
And they would usually.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Pick you up in the morning from your hotel in
a van, drive you to the starting point, and at
the end of the day take you back home.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah. So yeah, you can definitely book then of those
things through like Expedia or like trip dot com. You
mentioned hostels earlier. Were did you do a mix of
accommodation on your trip in Southeast Asia? How did you
find accommodation? How much did you pay for it? It's
such a huge thing, both financially but also like the

(18:42):
outcome of what kind of trip you're going to have
is so dependent on where you stay too, So how
did you do with accommodations?

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, where you stay can definitely shape your experience. I
probably stayed in.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Maybe three hostels on my entire journey. The rest of
the time I typically stayed in like comfortable, mid range hotels,
so costing anywhere from like twenty to twenty five dollars usually,
And I say that it can really shape your experience because,

(19:15):
for example, I stayed in a hostel in Copp, Thailand,
just because Copp is definitely expensive for Thailand, and I
kind of didn't want to spend more than like twenty
to thirty dollars a night. But I feel like getting
your own hotel room in Copp maybe would have been
like over fifty bucks. So but when I think is

(19:40):
stayed in the hostel, I met so many more people.
I made, like so many friends in fact, to the
point where it was like tiring how many people I
was hanging out with and had plans with, you know.
And also but also you know, so traveling started traveling,

(20:02):
I started, I would journey. I started this at thirty two,
So I feel like I have a lower tolerance at
that age for discomfort than I did when I was
in my twenties. And like my twenties, I would stay
in hostels often, but I feel like in my thirties,
I want to have my own space, especially because you know,

(20:23):
you're at the at the day end of it of
being out all day, you kind of want to go
home and be comfortable.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
You know, what was your what did you budget for
a night in a hotel in say Vietnam or in Thailand.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I would say in general the budget was about twenty
to twenty five dollars thirty on the slightly more high end.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
But in Vietnam. In Vietnam it varied. It was a
little different.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Like when I was in Saigon, paid about fourteen dollars
for hotel room, but it was it was really small,
had no windows.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
It was tiny, and.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
I kind of wish I had spent a little bit
more to have a bit of a nicer place. But
in Danang I paid only nine dollars per night for
very comfortable, typical, you know, for what I'd usually get
for twenty five dollars. Elsewhere, I spent nine dollars and
it was a block from the beach.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Team So like the Nanga like set and Vietnam it's
national set noon local tourism records in twenty nineteen, which
is like, there's a huge I'm sure you noticed infrastructure
and plan to grow the tourism industry here, right They
built an international airport and a theme park and five
golf courses and one hundred resorts and YadA YadA. But

(21:45):
I'm still very curious if you wrote that to the
d Nang's economy and especially on the ocean side, is
so tourism dependent that it was, like, I mean, it
was sad. It was a serious ghost town here in
twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
But it's interesting because I was traveling throughout southeast he
got throughout twenty twenty three at that everywhere else still
cost twenty to twenty five dollars, and I'm sure they
were also recovering after COVID as well, you know, but
Denang was still at nine dollars.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Okay, So let's get into the wrapping up the monthly
budget part before we sort of started talking about the
experiential part. So what was your monthly budget expenses in
general for the whole world? And then I guess we
already kind of talked about her mentioned it was about
seven hundred and fifty a month plus insurance and phone

(22:40):
in Vietnam, that makes.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Sense, seven hundred and fifty a month, Like when you.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Said you're spending twenty five dollars, Oh.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
That was just in Danang, but like it was very
different for Juoyan even and it was very different for
the whole North.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
So what was your daily budget and Hooyan or in
the north, compared to Dnang.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well in Joyen, my hotel daily hotel cost twenty dollars okay,
so I was definitely spending on top of that, you know,
maybe another fifteen dollars transportation on like food and some
entertainment or souvenirs here and there. I mean, I actually
bought a lot of clothes in Hoyan and spent a

(23:29):
lot of extra money on that.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
But that's a little different.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
But like, for example, in Hanoi spent I was forty
dollars an almost night for my hotel. But I definitely
just found Hanoi like a lot more expensive, you know,
then I think everywhere most everywhere else.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
So twenty five dollars a day budget in the nine
versus maybe thirty five or forty in Yan, plus going
into the tailor, which of course everyone does when they're there.
It's a big part of it.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, I bought like fourteen dresses. I spent like five
hundred dollars alone on dresses.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Ah. That's well, that's good though, that's good to share
with people. So how many dresses do you get? What
do you do? Tell me about it?

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, I got like fourteen and they were about thirty
to thirty five dollars each, which I mean is that's
like super cheap compared with you. You know, you pick
the exact design you want, you fabric, they pick the
fit it to your body, and they make it in
like one to two days.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
So yeah, that was insane beautiful.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, it's a part of the the Vietnam experience for sure.
And there's the tailors and the leather workers are so
skilled in the seria. Oh yeah, and so what about
annoy that if it was forty dollars were accommodation, and
then on top of that you found what another twenty
twenty five dollars? What was your daily budget and annoy

(24:56):
as a traveler?

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, I mean on top of that, like with transport
to and food costs, which I didn't food and transportation
I didn't find to be that much more expensive than
like Denang, for example. So let's say I spent another
ten to fifteen dollars, Yeah, maybe like fifteen dollars on

(25:18):
top of that, So you could they say like it
was about fifty five dollars.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Do you know what your total Vietnam spend was or
your sort of your two trips here, and what was it?
Maybe six weeks total? Eight weeks total.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
I do have a spreadsheet with all of those numbers,
but I don't know it exactly off the top of
my head.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
For how many days totally do you spend here in Vietnam?

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think I spent at least a month and a
half or two months something like that.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
You think you probably spent like twenty five hundred or
three thousand dollars here or more. Maybe you got five
lows number. Now, okay, let's sear.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Let's say I know what I have the number, what's.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
The big reveal total budget span.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
So for my first two week trip to Dinang and
Juyan and Saigon, I spent one thousand, three hundred and
eighty seven dollars, but that included five hundred dollars for clothes,
So the grand total is about eight hundred dollars.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, and then for the let's see, the.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Next trip to North Vietnam four months about to five weeks,
was one thousand, nine hundred and eighteen dollars.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Okay, yeah, okay, so that's good two thousand dollars for
a month in the north. That's pretty affordable. And that's
including the three hundred dollars motorbike trip and Hasiang including
that one thousand cons of different countries and again you know,
again we'll focus on Southeast Asia, but to Thailand, Lao,
Cambodia and Vietnam regionally. Was your what was your favorite

(27:04):
country that you visited in this part of the world?

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Oo favorite or your best experience? Honestly, this is gonna
sound this might sound very cliche, but I would say Bali.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Yeah, yeah, okay. I've been to Bali once long long
time ago, maybe fifteen years ago. Tell me and I
did the like classic gun Pasar, what's the eat, pray,
love town Ubud and then Uluatu okay cool? Tell me
about the Bali experience and uh why it was so memorable.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I feel like there's definitely a non memorable way to
do Bali and a very memorable way to do Bali.
In my opinion, the very touristy strip of beach area
like Kuta Seminiac Changu, I don't like.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
I think the beach is not that nice. It feels
very rowdy.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
It feels very like just noisy, kind of congested, and
it's just like I feel like it is where tourists
go to party, you know, with mediocre beaches. So I
don't really like that area, but still there's some there's
some like beautiful cafes and good restaurants things like that.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
But what I love.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Is ubud So bud was pretty much my home base,
Like it was my actually probably my favorite place that
I that I that I spent time in on my
entire trip around the world.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Wow, yeah, why aren't you there?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, I mean I will be.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I will be eventually. I'm gonna go back at some
point for sure. But it's you know, it's just so green,
it's so lush, and not only that, but you can
take a lot of like day trips from Ubu to
the most beautiful waterfalls and jungles that I've in rice
fields that I've ever seen. So I love just basing
myself out of ubud and going to like beautiful cafes

(28:59):
every day, taking yoga classes, meditation things like that, and
also taking.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Those day trips out of ubud.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
H That's interesting. I think there's a sort of comparison
idea among some people that like ken Hoyan become the
kind of thing that Ubud is, you know, a place
where people go for yoga retreats and meditation and to
sort of escape and live a quiet or digital nomad lifestyle.

(29:31):
I definitely, yeah, I loved Ubud too, and I have
also beautiful memories of the you know, really incredible healthy
food and and the Balinese culture there was so strong
and beautiful, the temples.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, I just think I feel like in Indo Indonesia,
in Bali, I found the best combination of nature and
infrastructure and price. The nature is just so lush, and
the water falls, the greenery, the jungles. I didn't spend
that much time.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
At the beach in Bali.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
But also the infrastructure I feel like has Bali has
like really nice restaurants, cafes, like upscale, beautifully landscaped, you know,
hotels and still like the typical pricing i'd find for
like a very comfortable mid range hotel would be like
twenty to twenty five dollars per night, But what I
was getting was much nicer than like what I got

(30:30):
for that price in Laos, for example, or Tile or
Bangkok or Chang.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
My right, So the value like that what you were
getting for your dollar was extremely high in Bali. That's
interesting to hear. I think. I think The last time
I was there was twenty ten, and i've sort of,
you know, you never It's so hard to actually know
what people are saying on the internet versus your own felt,
experiential reality, and that's why people really need to do

(30:56):
their own trips and experience things for themselves before they
make long term relocation decisions. Yeah. I think of Bali
is probably having better infrastructure than Vietnam, But the flip
side is that some people would think of it as
being overdeveloped or too touristy. How did you experience, say,
the beaches and ubud and Bali compared to Ahoy and

(31:17):
Danang experience the time?

Speaker 1 (31:19):
You know, Danang was definitely much cheaper. I mean I
was paying nine dollars per night. What I was paying
in Bali was worth it. It was worth the extra
extra cost because I still found the nature in Bali
to be much nicer than in Danang. I like the lushness,
I like the greenery, and I think Bali is just
a lot more fun like Danang is really chill, and

(31:42):
it is a great balance of like urban and life
and nature, but it's not the most like thrilling place
to be, which was fine for me. Because I wasn't
looking for excitement at the time. I was very tired.
I really enjoyed the chill vibe. Yeah, Bali is just
so much fun.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
I mean, the the amenities, the excitement, the things to
do in somewhere like Bali or like Kosamui, Thailand, or
like Krabby, Thailand compared to Danang and Joyan can't be understated.
I mean, people talk so much about the cost of
living and the price here, and of course the show
is called The Cost of Living Abroad. There is in

(32:24):
a very literal way, much less to do here, right,
And if you're if you're looking for a quiet, remote
working location, or like us, we have kids, it's great,
it is wonderful, but this is not You're not going
to have an action packed even a week here, right.
I mean, there there's a couple there's just a couple

(32:44):
of things to do. There's the trip to Marble Mountain.
There's a you know, a float down Coconut River in Joyan,
and there's a drive up to Highland Pass. And you know,
there's the theme park Bana Hills or Gulf or something.
But like, I din't think what it does offer is
like a very relaxed, beautiful place to spend winters if

(33:04):
you're a retiree or if you're someone who can work,
you know, half the year in the US and half
the year in Southeast Asia during winters or something like that.
Like my parents love it here compared to Tochi Min
right for their experience of just wanting to escape winters
and spend two or three months in a hotel by
the beach. It's amazing. What was your budget in Bali

(33:25):
or in Ubad for like a daily average daily spend?

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, I think in a bood in Bali in general,
I spent about twenty dollars per night on the high
end about twenty five, so let's say like twenty two
and on food and coffee, et cetera, maybe about fifteen dollars.
Maybe transportation maybe a maximum about maybe about five dollars.

(33:52):
So yeah, let's say like forty to fifty dollars daily budget.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
At the time, maybe double the cost, and I bet,
I bet now it would be more like the niang
would cost sixty or seventy percent as much as Bali. Like,
I don't ubud, I don't. I don't think you can.
I don't know how you would live here on twenty
five dollars a day unless you were unless you were
literally living like a local.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah yeah, now it's probably more like Bali prices, you.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Know, probably a similar setup to what you had a
few years ago. He's paying double that price now for
accommodations here.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Okay, okay, But.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
The flip side is that the food, the tour is
that kind of stuff. I think it's the exact same price.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, that's what everyone says.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
It is incredibly easy for me to walk out my
front door and get coffee for sixty cents, aboung me
for eighty cents, a full lunch for under two dollars.
It's not like you don't have to try to do this.
You just go to a place that has a Vietnamese
to sign.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
But that that would probably be like a pretty.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Local place though, right, Like it's not only the trendiest restaurant,
right yeah, local.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
But also I don't live city side, so I do
live on the ocean side. Okay, is still touristy, it's okay.
Sunchow which is actually like the Korean x PAC community
mostly is where tourists here are still Korean, Taiwanese or
mainland Chinese. Oh, and by far right, I mean the
percentage of tourists in Vietnam or westerns less than five.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Really, How did you feel safety wise in Bali, Thailand,
Vietnam traveling alone?

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I always felt safe.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
But that's also why I actually didn't party that much,
because I didn't want to go out at night by myself,
and I was solo like most of the time. I mean,
you know, i'd meet friends, and with friends, I would
go out, but I was solo a lot of the time,
so I didn't really go out walking around at night much.
So I feel like I took necessary precautions pretty safe.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
What are the precautions you take as an experience solo
and as a woman to feel like you're not putting
yourself at risk or and harm.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
This is actually a lesson I learned in South America
that I applied going forward.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I tend to.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Choose hotels in toward the city center as opposed to
like booking an airbnb in a suburban neighborhood or something
like that, because I was chased by vicious dogs walking

(36:33):
through the neighborhood to get to my airbnb, and it
was like one of the scariest experiences I've ever had.
Like literally, I felt like my life was flashing before
my eyes as I was like trying to run away
screaming from the dogs. So then I realized, Okay, I
just want to be like in the city center, you know,
not having to walk through neighborhoods.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
So that was one thing. Another thing is being.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Home by usually like eight pm. If I'm out after that,
it's usually because I'm meeting people, and I'll just like
take the public transportation to the whatever venue I'm meeting
them at and then just go straight home, so I
don't go like walking around in areas without people that

(37:19):
are dark, you know. And also I bought like this
anti theft backpack made me feel a little better.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
What about like on the back of motorbikes are on
the back of grab bikes?

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Like, did I feel ever feel weird getting on the
back of a grab bike?

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Definitely not. I feel like I wasn't really out at
night that much.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
But but if I ever was and I needed to
take a grab bike or car, no, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I ever felt weird about it.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
This is just a general feeling that the people just
seemed really sweet and gentle, and I mean a lot
of them were also like very small, like physical, like
something I know to notice in Juyane was a lot
of my grab drivers were just so tiny, so I

(38:08):
felt like I was bigger than some of them. So yeah,
there's that too, you know, they're not like these big
burly men.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
What was your actual turning point to act? You know,
to shift your life online or remote and your work
remote for a year, to take a year off work
and to actually get up and go and do it,
Like how did you take that leap of faith?

Speaker 1 (38:31):
I actually don't think that it's everyone's dream to do
something like that. I feel like it's pretty extreme and
most people are prioritizing a lot of other things because
I think there's a lot of sacrifices that you have
to make to actually do something like that, and it
can be very scary and not all not everyone would
want to do that. Like maybe a lot of people
would do it if they had a ton of money,

(38:54):
you know, where they didn't really have to give much
up to go do something like that. But so yeah,
I mean I got a lot of people who do it.
They were like millionaires. I think I just had like
a thirst for travel. That's much more than the average person.
That I caught like the travel bug when I was
about twenty four and then I just like couldn't stop traveling.

(39:16):
I was always wanting to plan my next adventure. I
just resolved that one day I was gonna take a
year and a half off and travel the world full time.
So that was like my dream from my early twenties
and always had that vision in mind. But I think
in order to be to give myself the permission to
do that, I had to feel like I had accomplished
enough and hit some key like career and financial goals. Basically,

(39:41):
after I spent about five years at CNBC and as
a video journalist and really made my dreams come true
at the company, and you know, I had hit a
certain like.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Position in the company.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
And a certain level of income, and I had saved
up a bunch of money.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
And that's when I was I was about.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Thirty two years old before having kids, and I was like, Okay,
it is now or never, you know, because I had
I had been in for about two years in the
in the last position that I had been in, and
so I knew, you know, my next role, I'm going
to be leveling up but I don't want to spend
a year and my next role and then be like, oh, well,

(40:24):
now I'm going to quit and go travel. I was like, Okay,
it's been two years in this position. Now is the time.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
What did you feel you had to sacrifice or give
up to be able to succeed and accomplish your goal
of traveling the world.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
I think I really gave up the job security.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Like, I'm in an industry that's extremely extremely volatile and unstable,
and there's very few like well paid, fun, cool jobs.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Doing what you love in this industry.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And I had that, you know, and I worked really
really hard hard to get there. It was extremely extremely
difficult for me to finally get there, and so I
gave up the certainty.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
That I would have that. Since I've gone back from
my trip, I don't have that. Yeah, I could have
that back at.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Some point I kind of like lost that, you know,
because once I got back, thousands and thousands and thousands
of journalists had been laid off. The industry is just,
you know, in shambles, was in shambles by the time
I got back in twenty twenty four. And my former
employer who said, oh, we can't imagine a world where

(41:36):
we wouldn't have you back. Now had no positions for me,
and I eventually did end up getting a great job
at a different company. It was a startup based in
Dubai where I was working remotely. But then about seven
months into the job, they laid off like two thirds
of the staff, so that was another big.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Disappointment.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
So how did you How did you save up the
money or how did you make your money to travel
the world for a here? Like just logistically.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
So I started saving when I was about twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
So at twenty seven, I had like nothing.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Because i'd like finished grad school and then I had
you know, I spent like all my money during grad school.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
I wasn't in debt.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
But then I had like a job and an internship
after grad school, but I didn't I saved maybe a
little bit, because it didn't that job did not pay
well and that internship did not pay well. I saved
up a little bit, but then I spent that traveling
and moving to New York. And then so once I
got to New York and I had this new job

(42:44):
at CNBC, I had nothing. So I was saved over
the course of about five years and I think it
was from living and not the coolest parts of town.
So I literally lived in areas that were just not
the greatest. I lived in like a former it used

(43:05):
to be like the ghetto in New York, but it was,
you know, it was very much gentrifying, et cetera. But
the street I lived on, you could definitely feel that
it used to be, like I think it was still
pretty the rough, very rough, right, So like, yeah, if
I went further down the street, like I lived right
on the corner, but if I went further down, then yeah,

(43:27):
I would start feeling like weird, very weird for sure.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Well, the thing.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
About in Southeast Asia, okay, I mean I had my
phone stolen out of my pocket. In Cambodia, you can
be a little bit more of a target for theft
if you're uncareful just by being up because you're traveling
in countries that are very poor. Some people they need
to rely resort to things like that, you know, to
get by. And so that's what made me feel a

(43:53):
little more and safe, like not unsafe, like uh, worried
about my physical danger, but more so at risk of theft.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
So I had to be on high alert about that no, I.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Don't think it's necessarily because it's more unsafe than Cambodia
than in Thailand and Vietnam.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I mean, maybe that's true. I just feel like I
haven't spent enough time to be able to say that.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, but it was just my experience because I was
so not careful, like I was stupid. And I actually
it's funny because I did first. I did three months
in South America, which everyone says is so unsafe. So
I was extremely high alert in South America, but I
had relaxed so much when I got to Southeast Asia

(44:36):
because I was.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Like, oh, it's so safe, it's so safe, you know.
Sometimes I just had.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
My bag like lying unwatched, unattended in a very crowded
place in Thailand or no, no, no, okay, yeah in
Thailand or in seam Reap, Cambodia, and nothing would happen.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
To it, and I was like, yeah, everything's fine.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
But in case in PanAm Pen, Cambodia, I had my
phone in my back pocket with headphones sticking coming out
of it, and I was listening to my headphone, so
it was very obvious there was a phone there. And
I was in a crowded touristy area, so I think
someone started kind of like following me actually, and then
eventually someone on a motorbike drove by, rapped, snatched it

(45:17):
out of my back pocket, and drove off. Oh yeah,
that was probably the worst experience, the worst day of
my moment of my travels for sure. Well, the next
day I just started walking around to different like phone
retailers around PanAm Pen and so I bought a new
phone the next afternoon, and so I was just kind

(45:41):
of trying to focus more so on being grateful for
the fact that I could do that, you know, like
literally the next day I can just go out and
buy a new phone that was like eight hundred dollars,
whereas that would be like completely prohibitively expensive for tons
of people in Southeast Asia. So it was like a
learning lesson like that, I have to be very vigilant,

(46:05):
and I did not.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I have not lost my phone since then.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
What's a piece of advice that you would give to
someone who's that planning their big move abroad, planning to
leave the West or America behind.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Definitely got to start with having money saved up, of course.
Oh well, I spent a total of thirty four thousand
dollars on that entire journey, so that is not an
inconsequential amount of money, and I spent a good amount
of my savings doing that. So it's kind of just
like evaluating where are you at in your life and

(46:44):
can you afford something like that? How much does it
affect future goals? You know, what are your goals in life?
What do you want to get out of life? Because
I knew that, I felt like my life wasn't worth
living unless I did that trip. So I was like,
this is a life to finding journey that I have
to take, So I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Yeah,

(47:04):
how important is this to you? Does it fit into
your life vision? And then also asking them like how
do you want to spend this trip? Because something I
think some key learning lessons along my journey was the
pace of it, Like do you want to prioritize adapting
to long term travel is very different than taking a

(47:25):
short vacation because this becomes your life. I think happiness
is about balance because definitely I went when I was
traveling as though I was just on vacation all the time.
I became very burned out and unhappy. So then it
was like, well, what is the point of even doing
all this if I'm not enjoying it? Because I'm just
constantly on the go everywhere. Just starts to kind of

(47:47):
feel the same. Yeah, the novelty wears off.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
You actually have a background as a professional video journalist,
So tell me about a little bit about that experience
so far. Like, I know, I think hit a thousand subscribers.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, when I was working at CNBC, I made videos
for YouTube. It's really cool, I think to finally feel
like you're figuring out how to make it work on
YouTube in a way in terms of like what's my niche,
what value do I bring to the table, what types
of what kind of content are people hungry for? How

(48:24):
can I help try to fulfill that demand using my
unique talent and skills. So starting to really like figure
that out and seeing it pay off is really rewarding.
I already bring like those production and storytelling and writing
skills and I'm not perfect at it, but some level

(48:47):
of hosting then delivery skills as well. But what I'm
working on when my hosting is to be more conversational natural.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Because even in that video, the Danang video that.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
You probably found me through There were a couple of
people who commented and said, oh, you know, your presentation
still feels a little broadcasting, you know, and that you
could like kind of loosen up a little bit, And yeah,
I do agree with that. It's the intro was like
meet the cheapest city in Southeast Asia, and this video
has nearly a million views and got me so many

(49:20):
many thousands of followers on Instagram, and I realized, like, wow,
I feel like there's really a hunger for content about
Danung and right now, I feel like I felt like
Danung was still kind of like a rising star, like
it isn't a I feel like it. I feel like

(49:41):
it's not a household name yet quite like Bali or
Mexico City or Lisbon, but it's really on the up
and up. And so I was like, Okay, I think
that there's still a hunger for this type of content,
this content about Danung. People are still learning about it,
people are still really curious.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
And I also felt like there's so.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Much hype about Dnung right now, it's still very much
in the middle of this. I feel like Denung is
still very much in the middle of this hype cycle.
But when I did some more digging around. I realized
that the narrative on the ground is starting to shift
a bit, because I was in these private Facebook groups
where people their tone about what's happening on the ground

(50:23):
Denung can be actually a lot more negative in many
of these conversations when talking about like gentrification, the cost
of living going up, having hard time finding rent, conversations
about I don't know if you'd call it like culture
war type conversations, but for example, someone complaining about expats

(50:43):
going where, dining shirtless at restaurants and how disrespectful that
is to the local culture, and then you know, there
would be these big arguments in the comments and stuff,
and I was like, wow, I really feel like then
actual narrative on the ground is starting to shift, but
yet that is really not captured in the content that's
out there about Denung. And I was like, let me
make a video, a longer video and in depth, deep

(51:06):
dive about what's happening in Denang that paints a more
like fleshed out complex story of what's actually happening, bringing
bringing my like journalistic storytelling and reporting skills to the table,
causing the cost of living to really go up, and
here's how that's impacting a lot of locals and longtime expats.

(51:30):
But at the same time, all these foreigners have brought
a lot of good to Dnung as well in terms
of stimulating the local economy, making a lot of local
lives better. This is what Denung has wanted all along.
So yeah, it's like trying to paint a more complex picture.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
You know, You've tried to have this sort of objective
or like researched opinion, and this is like, you know,
I mean, the part of denying they're talking about where
prices are going up is part of denying. That's purpose
built for tourism. And the part of d Nang they
don't go to, which is a million person city on
the other side of the river, hasn't changed one bit
at all. Right, there's been zero change over there. The

(52:07):
exact same price, the exact same infrastructure, the exact same city.
Like one of the statistics came out recently that it's
there's twenty four million tourists to Kevin, Vietnam this year.
It's the largest group ever. Three hundred thousand are American,
So what's what is three hundred thousand of twenty four million.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Wow, what's something that I didn't ask you that I
should have asked you, or that I that I could
ask the next guests on the cost of living over
odd Pod.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I think that maybe a part of my journey, or
many other digital nomad's journeys, is maybe the quality of life.
I mean, maybe we didn't talk as much about like
quality of life.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
For example, I think a big part of my experience
was that I just felt so free and comfortable in
a way that I've never really felt while living in
the US.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
You know, I felt so on top of.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
The world and like I had more than enough when
I was traveling, you know, like I felt wealthy, I
felt like I had accomplished more than enough. I felt
so grateful for everything that I have and that I
was given at birth in a way that you know,
I almost never feel in the US, which is, you know,

(53:27):
kind of like stressed out, just that you never have enough,
can't afford the cost of living, can't afford to buy
a house, How am I gonna raise kids in this city?
And you know it's yeah, like you never really feel
like you're enough. And I feel like traveling the world

(53:47):
gave me or at least, you know, in Southeast Asia
and South America gave me so much perspective about actually
I'm like wealthier than most people in the world.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
I have so much. It was just this.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Feeling of like abundance and peace in a way that
I feel like I don't feel in the US. But
that also comes from like my privilege having been born
American and earning US dollars, right, because I don't. It's
not like people in Southeast Asia all feel so free

(54:23):
and abundant and comfortable.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
So would you do it? Would you do it all again?
Would you sacrifice everything or make those same steps of
savings and giving up what you have in America and
job security to live abroad again?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Sometimes I do wonder, like what would my life have
looked at Like if I didn't take that trip, Like
I'm sure I would have moved up through the ranks
at CNBC, maybe done some really cool career stuff, made
more money, moved into a bigger, more comfortable apartment. Yeah, Like,
if I didn't have those travel aspirations, probably would have

(55:00):
done all that, and I would have had, you know,
maybe a more prestigious title and a more impressive thing
to say when I meet people and they ask me
what I do. I think it was just so important
to me to do that trip and for my life,
and so.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Yeah, I would do it again.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
But yeah, there might be some things I do a
little differently, Like, for example, I would have started a
YouTube thing as soon as I quit and started traveling.
I would have done it as I went, you know,
because when I started traveling, I just always had in
my mind that I was going to go back to
corporate and that it was no problem.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
I was going to at.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Least go back to CMBC and continue leveling up doing
what I was doing before.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
But that hasn't really panned out.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
So yeah, I would have started a YouTube thing much earlier,
I think, because I would have had so much great content.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Okay, so one final question, View, and I want to
thank you so much for taking the time out of
your day, out of your life to speak with me
to come on the class of doing abroad thing. Has
been a wonderful conversation and I've learned so much from
you already, so like, truly thank you so much for that.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
The last question, which comes from another past guest, Eddie
colbyth is what's the one thing in your life you're
not doing right now that you know you should be doing.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I think resting more like doing nothing. That's what I
should be doing more of. Is nothing like having no
goals for the day, just taking a day off, being
like I don't have to get anything done today, and
just seeing where your instincts and whims take you.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Thank you again so much for coming on the Cost
of Living Abroad Pod, Helen. It's been wonderful. All of
Helen's socials, et cetera are linked below. Anyone watching right
now make sure to go and check her out. Also
do a direct link over my shoulder to her denying
video that we've talked about before, so you can follow
up this podcast by watching that video here. My most

(57:12):
recent video will be up here.

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