August 22, 2025 • 49 mins
What a great visit we all had with Paul Petersen, who played Jeff on the Donna Reed Show, but continued through his life becoming way more than that. We hope you enjoy our visit with this childhood star who did so much for so many of us later in his life.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I saw I'm sitting in the room.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hi, We're the Colcles.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I'm Paul, I'm Bob, and I'm Susan cowcill and welcome, Welcome,
one and all to.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The Calcil Podcast, where we have fun, fun, fun, even
when we're being serious.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Every single week with our music stories and weekly special
guests from all walks of life.
Speaker 5 (00:27):
All of us can use a break sometimes take a breezer, right.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Right right, Well, if that's true for you, then you
have a ride at the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So we want you to sit back, bring back and
escape with us.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And to our world of harmony Lester and Tom Foulering.
So let's get to it. Here's today's episode of the Castle.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So, yeah, we have started the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I'm Paul Peterson with us, actor, singer and activists.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Indeed, Susan, do you want a normal introduction to your
friend here?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Hi, Paul, Welcome to The Council's Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
First of all, I want you to know we all
watched The Donnery Show.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
We all and I had six brothers, and yet Paul.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I wish that you were my brother.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Not that was boys.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
To be my brothers too. It's just it's just how
it was for me.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
But listen in the Council podcast, my position is to
try and do a little pre history with you before
you became the Paul Peterson.
Speaker 6 (01:35):
We all know you, okay.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
So when you were coming up, little Paul, he's born
into his family and mom and dad are there. You're
one or two, you're three, maybe four?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
What are you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Are you a kid going to kindergarten learning about being
a fireman or a policeman or a doctor, or are
you in a household of creatives?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And that isn't no.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
I was living on a farm in Iowa, Cherokee County,
and not until Lockeed called my dad back to work.
You know, they had dismissed virtually everybody. When the war ended,
did we move out to southern California to a town
of a burbank at first, but then later North Hollywood,
(02:20):
which is dangerously close to Hollywood. Now, by that time,
my sister and I were already singing at church and
people seemed to like us. As my mother believed, you
have to improve on God's gifts, so that meant dancing lessons,
(02:44):
singing lessons over and over. And there's of course a
long ten year part to that story, but let me
let me go back to that part. At our church
which Dad helped build the organ they had a notice
came in that they needed tryouts in Los Angeles for
(03:09):
the Easter Sunrise service at the Hollywood Bowl. So my
mom drove me and sister Pam to the tryouts and
there were several thousand kids there and they hired Ammy
and me. So now suddenly it gave my mom the idea, well,
(03:31):
maybe I should try this. Okay, next thing I know,
my dance teacher, Sally Sargeant, an old vaudevillian and a tough,
tough gap the dog with the Whiskey boys. Sally heard
about an audition. Now by now I'm nine years old
(03:51):
and I've been dancing at the local VA and a
local talent show sponsored by overmobile dealer called Rocket to Stardom.
And typical of these things, Ammy won her hour, I
won my hour, and we were in the finals and
I ended up winning. Wow. So that led to an agent,
(04:16):
a big, fat, hondrous woman named Lola Moore. There were
only two kid agents in Hollywood, Lola Moore and this
other Doubt, and they sent me on this interview over
at Disney and It was an open audition for some
kind of critter called a mouseketeer. Oh, this is typical audition.
(04:44):
You brought your sheet music, added it to the piano player,
and proceeded to perform well for most of the kids,
you know, eight bars in there would be a voice
in the back went thank you. Well. I was singing
Lulu's Back in Town, and I got all the way
(05:05):
to the end of it, with a dance in between
and singing, and they hired me. So now that's my
first job. I didn't have a Social Security card, I
didn't have membership in any the locals. Of course you
didn't have to join SAgs. You were twelve in those days.
But anyway, everything turned out pretty neat. I went to work.
(05:29):
This is just before the park opened in nineteen fifty five,
so I was shut at my tenth birthday, and the
Mouseketeers danced at the Mickey Mouse Club theater and all
of us, forty of us, danced like a big troop.
And I was wonderful to be at the opening of Disneyland,
(05:53):
which everybody called waltz folly. You know, there was not
a guaranteed success at all. An opening day was hot
like it is today and Dusty. The streets weren't paved.
I stand out memory is the little cars that we
used to ride around Tomorrowland. They were all over the
(06:15):
Disney lot and they didn't need a key. So me
and Mickey Rooney Junior we just hop in the carts
and take off. That is not a good habit for
a young performer. I managed to get myself in trouble
most every day, and after about seven weeks, I punched
(06:38):
the casting guy in his stomach, Lee Travers, because he
called me mouse. Everybody called me mouse. I was so
small anyway, I turned around and punched him in the
stomach and said, don't call me that Fatso standing behind
mister Travers was mister Disney. So when I got home
(07:01):
at four o'clock that Friday afternoon, there was a telephone
call which my mom made me answer, and I was
the word discharged. So a fired by nine years old.
In my family, this is a blue collar farm family.
The only answer to losing a job is get the
(07:21):
next job. So by that time, Lolamore was sending me
out on auditions and I treated auditions. I don't know
about you guys, but I treated every audition After that
as if it's my job to lose. I don't want
to just win the job. I want to beat everybody
(07:42):
in the outer office. I want to be really good.
So I worked a lot, and I would go from
one show to another show, and it didn't matter if
they wanted me to dance or sing, and the parts
kept getting bigger and bigger, and pretty soon I'm doing
Playhouse nineties and Luck Video Theater and getting a reputation
(08:07):
in Hollywood. You know, for kids, your reputation, it's like
a skyrocket. Well, the following spring, three of us went
to audition over air Mount in front of a guy
whose name I knew, Kerry Grant. I didn't know who
(08:29):
that was, and my mother certainly did. And it was
for a big movie called Houseboat. Mimi Gibson and Charlie Herbert,
who was from The Fly, and we auditioned together because
we just were like natural brothers and sisters. I always
(08:51):
took care of Charlie. He was little and talented and
his parents weren't very nice, and Mimi was a doll
on a stinges, like having your own little blondie. And
well we must have impressed them because they hired us
and for the next seven months we were doing the
(09:12):
highest level movie making and it was the start of
a friendship with Sophie laur N, but more importantly with
Carrie Grant and mister g was my friend. Tilly died,
so it was it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And Paul, how did how was it learning your lines?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, I was theater guy, and boy, learning those
lines was always important to get that book out of
my hands.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Yeah, important, yes, but easy. I didn't have really any
issues with that, and it didn't matter what I was
called upon to do now, mind you. You know, when I
did things like a Ford theater, I was a little
ne'er do well whose father was being hung right in
front of me. So that was one kind of acting
(10:02):
and I loved that kind of part because it wasn't
me being the little bothersome little brother. And by the
time we got to the Donna Reed show there, I
had Shelley Fabrae playing my older sister, and I had
one at home, so I kind of knew how to
the older sister, you know, especially a pretty one, and
(10:25):
so it was easy to learn those lines. And over
the decades, you know, I got plenty of black eyes
defending my sister's honor because I have You know, both
of my sisters are beautiful, and Shelley is number three,
and that's the way we grew up. So the lines
were simple, and that always has been easy for me.
(10:47):
It was never a test that I failed. I did not.
I worked with people who couldn't remember on ascension, who
couldn't remember.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
I would like to interject briefly by simply noting, no,
you had no other desire to do anything else, because
look at you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So Paul. You must have been totally one hundred percent
into this thing you were doing, of acting, and you
loved it. And it's OKAYU was to me, let me work.
I love this job.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Yeah, don't be so sure of that. Did you ever
have a tough dance teacher? Ye? Have a teacher that
was so tough that your feet would bleed inside your kipedia. Wow,
I had some of those. Plus my mother was a
(11:40):
lot bigger than me doing uh a practice. I hated practice.
I love performing, but the practice just it was boring.
I'll jump ahead to explain to you something. Three years
into the Do Read Show, just before we started our
(12:03):
singing career, Mom wanted me to go to a high profile,
high cross singing teacher here in Hollywood, and pardon my profanity,
but I had to look her in the eye. And
I was by this time bigger than her mom. I
got the damn job. Oh I don't need I didn't
(12:25):
have to prove to anybody anything. And that part I
loved because by that time I was pretty much an
independent entity and my baby sister, Patty was my main concern.
Mom had gotten a divorce and there were, you know,
domestic troubles and h every day. Going to Stage one
(12:50):
was sanity. How could you do better than Donna Reid
for a mom? And that's what I called her mom. Wow,
you know and understand that Donna Reid her real name
is Donna Belle Mullinger and she was from a small
farm in Dennison, Idaho, Iowa. So she is very much
(13:14):
like my mom. She was the oldest daughter of five children.
She virtually raised her brothers, and we got along honest
engine except in front of people. I called her mom
on the set all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know, we find that with a lot of our friends,
you know Bill, you know Bill, and we even as
disassociated as it is, that Partridge family showed Shirley Jones.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's like a mom to us.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Gotcha, And interestingly for me, given the enormity of her
talent and her legacy, she was like a big star
for me. I got it. But it was miss then
and now you know that's how it is.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
When I was twenty six, after six years off air,
we went to lunch every month, Shelley and Donna and
Carl and me at the Beastro in Beverly Hills. And
during one lunch, Donna suddenly leaned across the table and
her to grab my arm, and she said, Oh, I
(14:28):
think it's time you started calling me Donna. Okay, it
had turned into I don't want to say unkindness, but
it wasn't. It did not describe the relationship what I
told her then and later, even as she was at
(14:49):
the end of her life, Mom suited her best, It
really did. It was a great comfort to know her
and to listen to her and watch your teach Shelley Fabrea.
She rooted for us all the time, and she had
her hands full with me, like many mothers do with
(15:12):
with ambitious and energetic young men. But she hung in there.
She really did.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The Paul so you become a singer and you have
some hits and.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm just wondering, was that Madison Avenue
coming in and you know and taking you know, Hey,
we're going to get this guy on an album. Look
and he's famous right now? Because it's not.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
And roll out, Ricky Nelson is to blame.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's what I think.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Birth approached us and asked if we wanted to sing.
Shelley said absolutely not. She doesn't like to sing. She
doesn't like to perform live in front of people. I, however,
couldn't wait to get that microphone because Ricky all the
girls and asked for earth. That's what it meant to me.
(16:05):
I thought I'd get rock and roll songs instead. The
very first song they give me is she can't find
her keys. I take my baby home at night. I
can't wait to kiss an oldertight. But right then she
reaches in her bag and starts pulling stuff out. Well,
that was the first tune they gave me, but nonetheless
(16:27):
it was a minor hit. But the next song they
gave me was written by Berry Man and Cynthia Wheel
called My Dad. That was a meaningful song. They wrote
an episode around it how difficult it can be to
be a young man whose father is a professional and
(16:49):
is seldom home. And I got to sing it to Carl,
who at this time in my life was as good
a friend as you could ever have. I got to
send to him that episode and it touches people. It
touches me, just the memory of it gets me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And did they make you go on tour? Or I
mean or not make you? But did you go out
and do a live performances of your hit?
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Absolutely a Dick Clark. I was under Dick Clark Caravana
Stars that it was fantastic. My seat met uh well.
First of all, the supremes were on the tour, the Drifters,
Jeane Oh, I'm going to forget people. Ronnie Duve was
(17:34):
the country and Western singer of it. I learned things
on the tour, which was night after night, all of
us on one bus, one bus, uh. And that was
how talented some of these singers were, how permitted they
were to giving the best performance they were capable of,
(17:57):
night after night after night. And Jeane Pitney sat next
to me and in the dark of night as we
went from one venue to the next, all within like
three hundred miles of each other. Jean would open up
his briefcase and take out some personal stationery and write notes,
(18:21):
and he had a whole filing system of business cards
of people he met along the way. I finally said
to him, Jeane, why are you doing that? He says, Paul,
I want to be in this business for a long time,
and these are the people who will help me stay
in it. I admired him that, yeah, and I admired
(18:46):
people who looked twenty years in their future, thirty years
in their future. That was not me. I had a
race car at home. I went out with fast cars
and faster women. You know, I was playing the game.
(19:08):
Remember this was an era when sex couldn't kill you.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
You're right on now I have a question about sure
when you're gonna have my dad? Now, my dad's gonna
you're gonna hit the charts with that one. That's gonna
go like up to the top ten. And then Shelley,
who's playing your sister Mary on the Dona Rito, it's
still into the ballpark here. Shelley is a reluctant artist,
(19:34):
a reluctant singer who's going to have a million selling
Johnny Angel Now, were you guys supportive of each other?
Did you compete with each other? Was this quietly done
on the side and you didn't discuss it?
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Oh? No, no, no. The Donna Reed Show was part
of Columbia Pictures, which was a part of Screen Gems,
which was an owner of Coal Gems, which was our
record company. But I hope you guys we'll remember the
days of the record business. Two of my promoters down
(20:06):
in Florida, Freddie Maroon and Babe Elias if you're interested,
ended up going to federal prison for transshipping. My first
royalty check after two and a half million records said
that I owed Colpix two thousand, five hundred dollars. Okay,
(20:31):
well there's more to this. Shelley owed at for and
a half million, even more. And when I went to
our producer, Tony Owen, which is Donna Reed's husband, I
complained to him and showed him my royalty check. It
showed a debit, and he talked. He was from the
(20:54):
South Side of Chicago. He talked, did Paul, do you
like going out on the run, Well, yeah I do, Tony.
Did they pay you cash money? Well yeah they do, Tony.
Then don't ask.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Whoa simple that's why you're paying back that money?
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Well, we never did. We went on recording sessions Hit This, Jimmy, Darren,
Shelley February or February and me with our producers to
Phillips one three hour session, seven sides cut, and all
of us were charged for that session the same amount.
(21:40):
We're talking Crooks Brooks with trendshipping and pressing plants just
across the state line. No one had good advice, ass
is I love being part of a musicians and being
(22:04):
paid cash because I'd sing like a bird free cash.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Did they ever try to build a show around you
and Shelley and tell the two of you look.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Not in a million years. One year we went to
the Boy Scout convention in Colorado Springs and here we
are on the stage having been introduced, and of course
the boy Scout they're going crazy with Shelley up there.
She was for sure a highly attractive young woman, and
(22:38):
they asked us to sing, and Shelley said no, So
I said no. But we did the national anthem, at
least I did, and I about wedway through the tune.
I look over my shoulder and Shelley's hiding behind me.
Now you know I sing the national anthem anytime. She
(23:00):
really mightily reluctant to do any of that. Oh, I
teased her. You can imagine, yes, because I'm just give
me the mind.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Do you remember hearing Johnny Angel and a reaction you
had to that? Did you think?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Oh said that's a hit. You bet I did, of course.
And Donna, seeing my reaction, added me on the shoulder
and she said, don't worry, Paul, You'll have your chance.
Just hang in there, you know. I mean, how do
you any brother and sisters in the industry understand this? Mightily?
(23:39):
And here's something you guys, I don't know if you've
talked about this or seen examples. My early success had
a lot of ramifications within the family. My father is
an engineer at Locke It at this Skuncort, so the
most advanced engineering there is. He said to me in
(23:59):
later year, Paul, I loved it when you were introduced
as my son, but I hated it when I was
introduced as your father. It's a flip that is difficult
to cope with.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
In later years, Montel Williams said to my mom, what
were you doing to him? He was working seven days
a week. He was making money. He was singing, he
was dancing, and Mom interrupted him. She said, Montel, he
got every audition. He went on, What was I supposed
(24:41):
to do with them? All of my grade school friends.
If you asked them in third grade, I'm not kidding
third grade. If you asked them, who's the performer, they
point to Paul. Did I have other friends? Yes, Stephanie
Sebastian is a world class concert pianist. Michael Belnek is
(25:04):
still out and around. Yes, I had those friends. Yes,
I knew how talented they were, but I they were
so talented, I didn't want to compete with them. I
didn't want to devote myself on a single issue. And
as it happened, as my life developed, I learned that
(25:27):
I had other strengths. One of the things which I
discovered in my forties is I'm really good at passing legislation.
Oh and the reason is so transparent. You'll appreciate this
when I go to state's legislators. Not so much now
(25:50):
because i'm home. But back in the day, when I
walked on the floor, those people knew me. They grew
up with me. Tonight, there was apt to call me
Jeff Stone as Paul Peterson. So when I told them
about the troubles child performers were having in their jurisdiction,
(26:11):
they at least listened. And our first piece of legislation,
you'll find this fascinating. What do you do with fame
and in Hollywood when when an infant is employed, usually
they hire twins, and a baby under the age of
(26:31):
six months has to have not only a studio teacher
there to guard the welfare, but also a registered nurse. Now,
as it happens, i am married to is show business
registered nurse. We wanted to change the rules because what
they were doing in Hollywood was hiring triplets and quads
(26:54):
and working all of them for the alloted two hours,
but bring them all in the same time two hours,
two hours, two hours, two hours. It's an eight hour day.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, So we had to change the rules. And everybody said,
you'll never get it done, never get it done. And
my life friend, Sheila Q remember herd Zelda from Dobie Gillis.
Sheila Cule had a buddy up in Sacramento who called
me up one day and said, Joe Rogan's his name,
(27:27):
said Paul I want you to drive up here. We
have an opportunity. So I drove up to Sacramento and
with Jim Rogan on one side and Sheila Qle on
the other elbow, we walked through the legislature, California legislature,
and they were introducing me around Paul. Sheila would say,
(27:51):
Paul has something for you here. Jim would say, you
have something I want you to listen to. We wrote
the bill. It was called the Premie Bill, which covered
all the premature babies who work in Hollywood, which is
most of the work. And the bill was passed in
(28:13):
about seven days and was signed the moment it could
be by the governor. And it was a slam dunk
because when you hit an room full of sincere former
kid stars who did the work. Remember we did the work.
They were watching us. When we spoke, people listened, and
(28:40):
it was in that regard we were able to press legislation.
And that's how we were able to go to Pennsylvania
to speak about the welfare of John and Kate plus
eight eight children. And those eight children were working seven
days a week, no teacher, no nurse, no salary because
(29:03):
mom and Dad were paid the directors were paid, the
writers were paid, the producers were paid, and the kids
got nothing.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Wow yes, wow, Oh I know them well booked. Six
of them were six, you know, not twins sex STUFFLI
six six.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Of thecause plus there's a set of twin girls. What
the problem is is that work for children is now global.
I have my credentials at the United Nations on behalf
of the World Safety Organization, and I go around trying
to talk to the legislators and the high mucky MUCKs,
(29:50):
and you know what their attitude is, Oh, we can
exploit our kids there. After all, our kids, do you
think that's okay? And you know something, they do think
it's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
We had parents like that. What just so you could
tell folks after Donna Reed and Jeff Stone and between
them and you find yourself in that seat facing that
California Congress, what happened in the middle there that made
you become that person?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Of I got to Bob, how did you become so
sure of yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Of?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
You know, it sounds like you really liked yourself and
believed in yourself.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
I learned many things after the Donna Reed show, which
was painful in many instances, took me about four years
to go into toilet. And the industry was aware of this,
and I think was rather gleeful Pauld got his come
ups because envy and resentment is part of what young
(30:58):
performers deal with all the time. It's particularly difficult for
young boys, but it's bad enough for young women. I'm friends,
and I mean close friends with what we call angenous,
the young Stollywood harlots like Raquel Welch, Dona Lauren, Mimi Gibson,
(31:23):
Regina Lowe. These were people I worked with and admired
and whose reputations I often had to defend because people,
it gets so snarky. You know, hey, do you ever
feel her up?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I know what happened is a guy named David Oliphant
gave me a chance, knowing about my love of cars
and my brief racing career, to write a book for
Simon and Schuster called High Performance Driving. And I took
(32:02):
it seriously and turned in the book on time, complete
with illustrations. It was well received. That made me feel good,
made me feel better than any day in front of
a camera or any day on stage for that matter.
And as that grew and I wrote more books, I
(32:25):
got to a point where I could actually defend what
I was doing. For example, when I wrote Walt, Mickey
and Me, which was a story about my time on
the Mouseketeers, and mind you, I'm the world's first ex Mouseketeer.
The first kid they fired was me. Now here's what's
(32:50):
so crazy. I'm friends with all of those Mousketeers to
this day. They know why I'm doing what I do.
They applaud what I do. They work with me on
this stuff. They themselves have people that they go out
and defend. Well. For example, I got an email from
Stan and Barry Livingston Dawn Lynn. I don't know if
(33:13):
you know this. She had a stroke two years ago
and has been in the hospital. Well. At the Hollywood
Show coming up in early September, she's going to be
in public again. With Barry and Stan and Tina Cole.
It's a miracle. We care about all of them. It's
(33:35):
not just legislation. It's three o'clock in the morning going
out on Hollywood Boulevard to try to get Dana Plato
the hell back into her apartment and get her out
of her robe and bunny slippers.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I remember picking up.
Speaker 6 (33:51):
The phone and it's that jerk radio jock who's humiliated her?
Would Stern the guy I wouldn't go on a show
when he kept calling, he asked me to go on. No, Howard,
I mean if it's a good thing. I wasn't around
him as he treated her so badly she died from
(34:14):
his treatment. Begged him not to use that axample left. No,
I don't. I don't suffer fools. Gladly I don't. And
Howard Stern, I hope a really big wave. It's the Hampton's.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
He sold out, did he?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Ever?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
So Paul, not to digress too much. But so you
went to school on set, we had to deal with
those tutors and all that kind of thing. So he
just graduated high school? And did you go to college?
Speaker 6 (34:48):
What I did was I enjoyed the best private education
a person could have. My teacher, doctor Lillian Barkley, had
three master's degree And yes, I graduated high school of
the AP program University High. I went there two days,
(35:08):
once to register and once to graduate. And my classmates
at UNI Hi never invite me back, not to this day.
I've adopted my wife's fiftieth anniversary class from Guardina High.
But the kids at University high No, thanks, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And they grew up those people.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
Too, the West side of Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:38):
You know, for as many lives as were affected by
the burn the Pacific Palisades, I just couldn't scrape up
much sympathy. Couldn't do it. I know those people, I
know those people. And when when you go in the
toilet and publicly, uh, it's everywhere around you, you know,
(36:03):
and people cluck their tongues and save whisper behind your back.
And yet I have friends in Hollywood who are yet prominent.
They won't let their kids go shopping unless I take
them because they know I'll take care of them. It's
it's bizarre, it really is. They. I don't know how
(36:26):
people can separate their life into compartments like that. I
don't understand it. I yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So are you today? Are you comfortable? Is there still
a lot of work to do? Are you comfortable where
you've brought this whole issue with the kids and the
babies and the whole scene.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
No. I want to do more, but unfortunately, as you
can tell, I don't have my health. There's a reason,
and I'm on oxygen. I was a heavy smoker. I
don't have the energy that I used to have. I'm
not believing now it's at two o'clock in the morning,
(37:13):
and I'm grateful that my wife takes such wonderful care
of me. But when pressed, I can make arrangements to
show up where I'm needed. The truth of the matter
is in the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is the
rule book for employment in the United States. There are
(37:37):
forty four exemptions to the standards. Next to last on
that list of forty four is any child engaged in entertainment. Annie, Yes, yeah,
don't get that protects your money. That's not a federal law.
(37:58):
It's a California law. The work rules are not the
same in North Carolina as in California. They are decidedly
not the same in India or Pakistan. Or you do
a movie like a slum Dog Millionaire and find out
the a little nine year old girl after the movie
(38:20):
was over was put up for sale four hundred thousand
US dollars. She was for sale. So I worked hard
at the un but it hurt because I would look
at these college educated global travelers and they didn't care.
(38:42):
I mentioned briefly, I hope you've heard this. I was
in Africa because I wanted to see how bad the
AIDS crisis was affecting children, particularly in South Africa. But
along the way I ended up and West Africa talking
(39:03):
to village Edler's elders about the children who pick our
cocoa beans. Their all children, ninety pound sacks of cocoa beans.
And I would say to the elders, why aren't you
picking the beans and letting those children be children? Well,
we did it when we were kids. They need work.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, crazy everywhere.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
Why do people strap bombs on babies in the Middle East? Unbelievable? No,
that's on.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
We don't know nobody, I don't your is your minor considerations?
Is this an active ongoing.
Speaker 6 (39:45):
Yes, it's ongoing. It's not as active as it used
to be. Everybody's getting older, you know, I lose people, Okay,
but Tony Dow's death was devastating to me. Billing grew
is in his mid eighties from Father Knows Best you
(40:06):
see for vintage celebrities, I want you to envision sausages
on a string. We are each of us, depending on
our era. We're a pulse in the body. We're a pulse.
So My era was black and white television, classic TV.
(40:28):
But you know, the people who prospered in that pulse,
that little sausage packet, they're getting old. So now you're
get in the books from the kids, from the Nickelodeon people.
You're getting Britney Spears and Jamie. You're seeing girls, particularly girls,
(40:52):
writing books that are devastating in the truth, I'm glad
my mom is dead. How about that for a title. Yeah, well,
that's because we have not solved this problem, and we
could with the stroke of his pen. The president, especially
given the power he has with Congress, they can make standard,
(41:18):
make child labor laws for the entertainment business uniform and consistent,
not only for people like me lucky enough to be
on a series, but for all those kids who are
out on the road working. I'm sure you guys have
been out there. You've seen abusive family situations. My goodness,
(41:45):
Christian families as guilty of abuse as anything you could
find in Hollywood. And that's the truth. We've got to
fix this.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
Have you seen our documentary?
Speaker 6 (42:00):
I am not no, I am not.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Have a look.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
We had a family like that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
We could have used you. We lost every.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Penny, really Okay, I will. I'm happy to do it.
Marianne hast been telling me I will do So.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
What's interesting, Paul, is this cause of yours was also
taking place that all the horrible things were also taking
place in the music industry. We were the kids in
that industry, and we're the ones that were being taken
advantage of it. JA, and we're the first generation. We
signed all the bad contracts, we're taking all the bad decisions,
(42:37):
and half of us are making wrong life choices. And
we're the first generation and paid the price.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
The lawyers actually had had Bob sign a sheet, you know,
saying that you know he was this age at this time, and.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, my MGM contract, I have my signature. I was
seventeen and the paragraph above my name says, I'm telling
everyone I'm twenty one. It was crazy.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
Back then, it was great, and I agree that's because
children are easy to fool. Now, let me get something
that you'll appreciate the now. I forgot what I was
going to tell you. It was really important.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Welcome to our world.
Speaker 6 (43:18):
I got you the It was funny to watch the
faces of my adult counterparts at Screen Actors Guild and after,
where I served on the board for over twenty years
and made some progress. But they were shocked at some
of the things. I would tell them, and they would
come over later and whisper to me the things they
(43:41):
had seen on the set. And when it comes to
the music business, I get it. I get it. Believe
me I do.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Did you ever run into the Howards Ron? And yes,
the Dad and Clinton stuff? How did day fare.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
Pregnant?
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Pause?
Speaker 6 (44:02):
No, because I have to remember the names. Ricky Sorenson
who played boy in Tardsan movies. I asked him one day,
rick how is it that you made it through and
turned out to be a pretty fair country actor? And
Ricky said to me, Paul, you got to pick your
parents with care. Now let me illustrate a point on
(44:29):
happy days. Ron Howard was getting to college age and
had to make decisions, and he tried at the family
dinner table to announce his intention to not go to college. Well,
Rance nearly flew out of his chair. Young man, he said,
slapping the table. You have been telling people since you
(44:50):
were three years old that you were working in show
business so you could go to college. You will, by
God go to college. That's what it takes. You have
to be bigger than the business.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, the parent does short and.
Speaker 6 (45:08):
Look at the Olympics. Look at what we see. The abuse.
It's everywhere, and sadly it has infiltrated our educational system,
the idea the teachers are sleeping with the twelve year
old boys. Excuse me, Yeah, it's pretty wild. Good lord, Well,
(45:30):
all of that concerns me. I wish I could meet
and talk with all the parents and the kids, but
I'm going to be eighty next month, and it's it's
exceedingly difficult for me. So I have prayed on this
in hopes that a new generation will pick up the piton.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
So is anywhere to carry the torch from your hand
to their hand?
Speaker 6 (45:55):
Yes, Unfortunately we kind of skipped the generation because the
technology has changed. Can you imagine here. I could control
things when it was Hollywood over at Republic or on
CBS or at Universal because I could show up. But
now they're filming things in Georgia, in Florida and in
(46:18):
North Carolina. Overseas, they're down in Mexico and Bolivia and Ecuador.
That's a big job Paul has done. But here's what
I remembered. I wanted to tell you at a professional
level and speaking to you as professionals. The turnover rate
(46:41):
among professional children at Screen Actors Guild and after is
twenty percent per year. What that means is after five years,
the turnover rate is one hundred. It's don't stick around
a long time. You guys are miraculous. You're out there still.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
We know about that miracle well.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
And it is a miracle. And God bless you for that.
That that's that there's a special gait for you, guys,
honest engine because that's really difficult longevity. It's not appreciated,
and yet it's very important as and as you know,
every time you meet a new person, it's important because
(47:34):
it's new to them too, and it's important.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
I can't tell you how much we appreciate you coming
on here with.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Us, Paul, and all that you've done, all that you've done.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
This is an honor for me. It's so easy to
be able to talk to my friends, to speak to
John John Provosts and to Billy Ray and and be
able without having to explain deeply absolutely what we've been through.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Your family, and we are proud to be counted in
your in your cool kid club.
Speaker 6 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Thanks's interfering with us and sticking with this. It took
us a little while, but we got her in and
I'm glad.
Speaker 6 (48:26):
I'm so glad you guys. Keep it up.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
We will. Yeah, this week, we'll let you know. Okay,
we'll let you know.
Speaker 6 (48:37):
Okay, please do.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Up to you.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Okay, everybody, We hope you enjoyed visiting with us today.
We definitely had a blast visiting with you.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Don't forget.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Each episode of the podcast is available to download on demand.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
So please subscribe and give us a rating thumbs up.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
You can also follow the Castles on Facebook and Atcouncil.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Dot com, and of course we will see you in concert.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
And on the road.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Until then, let's stay
Speaker 4 (49:11):
In touch by tuning in each week for another episode
of the
I saw I'm sitting in the room.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hi, We're the Colcles.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I'm Paul, I'm Bob, and I'm Susan cowcill and welcome, Welcome,
one and all to.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The Calcil Podcast, where we have fun, fun, fun, even
when we're being serious.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Every single week with our music stories and weekly special
guests from all walks of life.
Speaker 5 (00:27):
All of us can use a break sometimes take a breezer, right.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Right right, Well, if that's true for you, then you
have a ride at the right place at the right time.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So we want you to sit back, bring back and
escape with us.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And to our world of harmony Lester and Tom Foulering.
So let's get to it. Here's today's episode of the Castle.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So, yeah, we have started the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I'm Paul Peterson with us, actor, singer and activists.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Indeed, Susan, do you want a normal introduction to your
friend here?
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Hi, Paul, Welcome to The Council's Podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
First of all, I want you to know we all
watched The Donnery Show.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
We all and I had six brothers, and yet Paul.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I wish that you were my brother.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Not that was boys.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
To be my brothers too. It's just it's just how
it was for me.
Speaker 5 (01:27):
But listen in the Council podcast, my position is to
try and do a little pre history with you before
you became the Paul Peterson.
Speaker 6 (01:35):
We all know you, okay.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
So when you were coming up, little Paul, he's born
into his family and mom and dad are there. You're
one or two, you're three, maybe four?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
What are you doing?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Are you a kid going to kindergarten learning about being
a fireman or a policeman or a doctor, or are
you in a household of creatives?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
And that isn't no.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
I was living on a farm in Iowa, Cherokee County,
and not until Lockeed called my dad back to work.
You know, they had dismissed virtually everybody. When the war ended,
did we move out to southern California to a town
of a burbank at first, but then later North Hollywood,
(02:20):
which is dangerously close to Hollywood. Now, by that time,
my sister and I were already singing at church and
people seemed to like us. As my mother believed, you
have to improve on God's gifts, so that meant dancing lessons,
(02:44):
singing lessons over and over. And there's of course a
long ten year part to that story, but let me
let me go back to that part. At our church
which Dad helped build the organ they had a notice
came in that they needed tryouts in Los Angeles for
(03:09):
the Easter Sunrise service at the Hollywood Bowl. So my
mom drove me and sister Pam to the tryouts and
there were several thousand kids there and they hired Ammy
and me. So now suddenly it gave my mom the idea, well,
(03:31):
maybe I should try this. Okay, next thing I know,
my dance teacher, Sally Sargeant, an old vaudevillian and a tough,
tough gap the dog with the Whiskey boys. Sally heard
about an audition. Now by now I'm nine years old
(03:51):
and I've been dancing at the local VA and a
local talent show sponsored by overmobile dealer called Rocket to Stardom.
And typical of these things, Ammy won her hour, I
won my hour, and we were in the finals and
I ended up winning. Wow. So that led to an agent,
(04:16):
a big, fat, hondrous woman named Lola Moore. There were
only two kid agents in Hollywood, Lola Moore and this
other Doubt, and they sent me on this interview over
at Disney and It was an open audition for some
kind of critter called a mouseketeer. Oh, this is typical audition.
(04:44):
You brought your sheet music, added it to the piano player,
and proceeded to perform well for most of the kids,
you know, eight bars in there would be a voice
in the back went thank you. Well. I was singing
Lulu's Back in Town, and I got all the way
(05:05):
to the end of it, with a dance in between
and singing, and they hired me. So now that's my
first job. I didn't have a Social Security card, I
didn't have membership in any the locals. Of course you
didn't have to join SAgs. You were twelve in those days.
But anyway, everything turned out pretty neat. I went to work.
(05:29):
This is just before the park opened in nineteen fifty five,
so I was shut at my tenth birthday, and the
Mouseketeers danced at the Mickey Mouse Club theater and all
of us, forty of us, danced like a big troop.
And I was wonderful to be at the opening of Disneyland,
(05:53):
which everybody called waltz folly. You know, there was not
a guaranteed success at all. An opening day was hot
like it is today and Dusty. The streets weren't paved.
I stand out memory is the little cars that we
used to ride around Tomorrowland. They were all over the
(06:15):
Disney lot and they didn't need a key. So me
and Mickey Rooney Junior we just hop in the carts
and take off. That is not a good habit for
a young performer. I managed to get myself in trouble
most every day, and after about seven weeks, I punched
(06:38):
the casting guy in his stomach, Lee Travers, because he
called me mouse. Everybody called me mouse. I was so
small anyway, I turned around and punched him in the
stomach and said, don't call me that Fatso standing behind
mister Travers was mister Disney. So when I got home
(07:01):
at four o'clock that Friday afternoon, there was a telephone
call which my mom made me answer, and I was
the word discharged. So a fired by nine years old.
In my family, this is a blue collar farm family.
The only answer to losing a job is get the
(07:21):
next job. So by that time, Lolamore was sending me
out on auditions and I treated auditions. I don't know
about you guys, but I treated every audition After that
as if it's my job to lose. I don't want
to just win the job. I want to beat everybody
(07:42):
in the outer office. I want to be really good.
So I worked a lot, and I would go from
one show to another show, and it didn't matter if
they wanted me to dance or sing, and the parts
kept getting bigger and bigger, and pretty soon I'm doing
Playhouse nineties and Luck Video Theater and getting a reputation
(08:07):
in Hollywood. You know, for kids, your reputation, it's like
a skyrocket. Well, the following spring, three of us went
to audition over air Mount in front of a guy
whose name I knew, Kerry Grant. I didn't know who
(08:29):
that was, and my mother certainly did. And it was
for a big movie called Houseboat. Mimi Gibson and Charlie Herbert,
who was from The Fly, and we auditioned together because
we just were like natural brothers and sisters. I always
(08:51):
took care of Charlie. He was little and talented and
his parents weren't very nice, and Mimi was a doll
on a stinges, like having your own little blondie. And
well we must have impressed them because they hired us
and for the next seven months we were doing the
(09:12):
highest level movie making and it was the start of
a friendship with Sophie laur N, but more importantly with
Carrie Grant and mister g was my friend. Tilly died,
so it was it was really cool.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
And Paul, how did how was it learning your lines?
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, I was theater guy, and boy, learning those
lines was always important to get that book out of
my hands.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Yeah, important, yes, but easy. I didn't have really any
issues with that, and it didn't matter what I was
called upon to do now, mind you. You know, when I
did things like a Ford theater, I was a little
ne'er do well whose father was being hung right in
front of me. So that was one kind of acting
(10:02):
and I loved that kind of part because it wasn't
me being the little bothersome little brother. And by the
time we got to the Donna Reed show there, I
had Shelley Fabrae playing my older sister, and I had
one at home, so I kind of knew how to
the older sister, you know, especially a pretty one, and
(10:25):
so it was easy to learn those lines. And over
the decades, you know, I got plenty of black eyes
defending my sister's honor because I have You know, both
of my sisters are beautiful, and Shelley is number three,
and that's the way we grew up. So the lines
were simple, and that always has been easy for me.
(10:47):
It was never a test that I failed. I did not.
I worked with people who couldn't remember on ascension, who
couldn't remember.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
I would like to interject briefly by simply noting, no,
you had no other desire to do anything else, because
look at you.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So Paul. You must have been totally one hundred percent
into this thing you were doing, of acting, and you
loved it. And it's OKAYU was to me, let me work.
I love this job.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
Yeah, don't be so sure of that. Did you ever
have a tough dance teacher? Ye? Have a teacher that
was so tough that your feet would bleed inside your kipedia. Wow,
I had some of those. Plus my mother was a
(11:40):
lot bigger than me doing uh a practice. I hated practice.
I love performing, but the practice just it was boring.
I'll jump ahead to explain to you something. Three years
into the Do Read Show, just before we started our
(12:03):
singing career, Mom wanted me to go to a high profile,
high cross singing teacher here in Hollywood, and pardon my profanity,
but I had to look her in the eye. And
I was by this time bigger than her mom. I
got the damn job. Oh I don't need I didn't
(12:25):
have to prove to anybody anything. And that part I
loved because by that time I was pretty much an
independent entity and my baby sister, Patty was my main concern.
Mom had gotten a divorce and there were, you know,
domestic troubles and h every day. Going to Stage one
(12:50):
was sanity. How could you do better than Donna Reid
for a mom? And that's what I called her mom. Wow,
you know and understand that Donna Reid her real name
is Donna Belle Mullinger and she was from a small
farm in Dennison, Idaho, Iowa. So she is very much
(13:14):
like my mom. She was the oldest daughter of five children.
She virtually raised her brothers, and we got along honest
engine except in front of people. I called her mom
on the set all the time.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
You know, we find that with a lot of our friends,
you know Bill, you know Bill, and we even as
disassociated as it is, that Partridge family showed Shirley Jones.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's like a mom to us.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
Gotcha, And interestingly for me, given the enormity of her
talent and her legacy, she was like a big star
for me. I got it. But it was miss then
and now you know that's how it is.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
When I was twenty six, after six years off air,
we went to lunch every month, Shelley and Donna and
Carl and me at the Beastro in Beverly Hills. And
during one lunch, Donna suddenly leaned across the table and
her to grab my arm, and she said, Oh, I
(14:28):
think it's time you started calling me Donna. Okay, it
had turned into I don't want to say unkindness, but
it wasn't. It did not describe the relationship what I
told her then and later, even as she was at
(14:49):
the end of her life, Mom suited her best, It
really did. It was a great comfort to know her
and to listen to her and watch your teach Shelley Fabrea.
She rooted for us all the time, and she had
her hands full with me, like many mothers do with
(15:12):
with ambitious and energetic young men. But she hung in there.
She really did.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The Paul so you become a singer and you have
some hits and.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm just wondering, was that Madison Avenue
coming in and you know and taking you know, Hey,
we're going to get this guy on an album. Look
and he's famous right now? Because it's not.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
And roll out, Ricky Nelson is to blame.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's what I think.
Speaker 6 (15:44):
Birth approached us and asked if we wanted to sing.
Shelley said absolutely not. She doesn't like to sing. She
doesn't like to perform live in front of people. I, however,
couldn't wait to get that microphone because Ricky all the
girls and asked for earth. That's what it meant to me.
(16:05):
I thought I'd get rock and roll songs instead. The
very first song they give me is she can't find
her keys. I take my baby home at night. I
can't wait to kiss an oldertight. But right then she
reaches in her bag and starts pulling stuff out. Well,
that was the first tune they gave me, but nonetheless
(16:27):
it was a minor hit. But the next song they
gave me was written by Berry Man and Cynthia Wheel
called My Dad. That was a meaningful song. They wrote
an episode around it how difficult it can be to
be a young man whose father is a professional and
(16:49):
is seldom home. And I got to sing it to Carl,
who at this time in my life was as good
a friend as you could ever have. I got to
send to him that episode and it touches people. It
touches me, just the memory of it gets me.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And did they make you go on tour? Or I
mean or not make you? But did you go out
and do a live performances of your hit?
Speaker 6 (17:13):
Absolutely a Dick Clark. I was under Dick Clark Caravana
Stars that it was fantastic. My seat met uh well.
First of all, the supremes were on the tour, the Drifters,
Jeane Oh, I'm going to forget people. Ronnie Duve was
(17:34):
the country and Western singer of it. I learned things
on the tour, which was night after night, all of
us on one bus, one bus, uh. And that was
how talented some of these singers were, how permitted they
were to giving the best performance they were capable of,
(17:57):
night after night after night. And Jeane Pitney sat next
to me and in the dark of night as we
went from one venue to the next, all within like
three hundred miles of each other. Jean would open up
his briefcase and take out some personal stationery and write notes,
(18:21):
and he had a whole filing system of business cards
of people he met along the way. I finally said
to him, Jeane, why are you doing that? He says, Paul,
I want to be in this business for a long time,
and these are the people who will help me stay
in it. I admired him that, yeah, and I admired
(18:46):
people who looked twenty years in their future, thirty years
in their future. That was not me. I had a
race car at home. I went out with fast cars
and faster women. You know, I was playing the game.
(19:08):
Remember this was an era when sex couldn't kill you.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
You're right on now I have a question about sure
when you're gonna have my dad? Now, my dad's gonna
you're gonna hit the charts with that one. That's gonna
go like up to the top ten. And then Shelley,
who's playing your sister Mary on the Dona Rito, it's
still into the ballpark here. Shelley is a reluctant artist,
(19:34):
a reluctant singer who's going to have a million selling
Johnny Angel Now, were you guys supportive of each other?
Did you compete with each other? Was this quietly done
on the side and you didn't discuss it?
Speaker 6 (19:46):
Oh? No, no, no. The Donna Reed Show was part
of Columbia Pictures, which was a part of Screen Gems,
which was an owner of Coal Gems, which was our
record company. But I hope you guys we'll remember the
days of the record business. Two of my promoters down
(20:06):
in Florida, Freddie Maroon and Babe Elias if you're interested,
ended up going to federal prison for transshipping. My first
royalty check after two and a half million records said
that I owed Colpix two thousand, five hundred dollars. Okay,
(20:31):
well there's more to this. Shelley owed at for and
a half million, even more. And when I went to
our producer, Tony Owen, which is Donna Reed's husband, I
complained to him and showed him my royalty check. It
showed a debit, and he talked. He was from the
(20:54):
South Side of Chicago. He talked, did Paul, do you
like going out on the run, Well, yeah I do, Tony.
Did they pay you cash money? Well yeah they do, Tony.
Then don't ask.
Speaker 5 (21:11):
Whoa simple that's why you're paying back that money?
Speaker 6 (21:17):
Well, we never did. We went on recording sessions Hit This, Jimmy, Darren,
Shelley February or February and me with our producers to
Phillips one three hour session, seven sides cut, and all
of us were charged for that session the same amount.
(21:40):
We're talking Crooks Brooks with trendshipping and pressing plants just
across the state line. No one had good advice, ass
is I love being part of a musicians and being
(22:04):
paid cash because I'd sing like a bird free cash.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Did they ever try to build a show around you
and Shelley and tell the two of you look.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Not in a million years. One year we went to
the Boy Scout convention in Colorado Springs and here we
are on the stage having been introduced, and of course
the boy Scout they're going crazy with Shelley up there.
She was for sure a highly attractive young woman, and
(22:38):
they asked us to sing, and Shelley said no, So
I said no. But we did the national anthem, at
least I did, and I about wedway through the tune.
I look over my shoulder and Shelley's hiding behind me.
Now you know I sing the national anthem anytime. She
(23:00):
really mightily reluctant to do any of that. Oh, I
teased her. You can imagine, yes, because I'm just give
me the mind.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Do you remember hearing Johnny Angel and a reaction you
had to that? Did you think?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Oh said that's a hit. You bet I did, of course.
And Donna, seeing my reaction, added me on the shoulder
and she said, don't worry, Paul, You'll have your chance.
Just hang in there, you know. I mean, how do
you any brother and sisters in the industry understand this? Mightily?
(23:39):
And here's something you guys, I don't know if you've
talked about this or seen examples. My early success had
a lot of ramifications within the family. My father is
an engineer at Locke It at this Skuncort, so the
most advanced engineering there is. He said to me in
(23:59):
later year, Paul, I loved it when you were introduced
as my son, but I hated it when I was
introduced as your father. It's a flip that is difficult
to cope with.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (24:18):
In later years, Montel Williams said to my mom, what
were you doing to him? He was working seven days
a week. He was making money. He was singing, he
was dancing, and Mom interrupted him. She said, Montel, he
got every audition. He went on, What was I supposed
(24:41):
to do with them? All of my grade school friends.
If you asked them in third grade, I'm not kidding
third grade. If you asked them, who's the performer, they
point to Paul. Did I have other friends? Yes, Stephanie
Sebastian is a world class concert pianist. Michael Belnek is
(25:04):
still out and around. Yes, I had those friends. Yes,
I knew how talented they were, but I they were
so talented, I didn't want to compete with them. I
didn't want to devote myself on a single issue. And
as it happened, as my life developed, I learned that
(25:27):
I had other strengths. One of the things which I
discovered in my forties is I'm really good at passing legislation.
Oh and the reason is so transparent. You'll appreciate this
when I go to state's legislators. Not so much now
(25:50):
because i'm home. But back in the day, when I
walked on the floor, those people knew me. They grew
up with me. Tonight, there was apt to call me
Jeff Stone as Paul Peterson. So when I told them
about the troubles child performers were having in their jurisdiction,
(26:11):
they at least listened. And our first piece of legislation,
you'll find this fascinating. What do you do with fame
and in Hollywood when when an infant is employed, usually
they hire twins, and a baby under the age of
(26:31):
six months has to have not only a studio teacher
there to guard the welfare, but also a registered nurse. Now,
as it happens, i am married to is show business
registered nurse. We wanted to change the rules because what
they were doing in Hollywood was hiring triplets and quads
(26:54):
and working all of them for the alloted two hours,
but bring them all in the same time two hours,
two hours, two hours, two hours. It's an eight hour day.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, So we had to change the rules. And everybody said,
you'll never get it done, never get it done. And
my life friend, Sheila Q remember herd Zelda from Dobie Gillis.
Sheila Cule had a buddy up in Sacramento who called
me up one day and said, Joe Rogan's his name,
(27:27):
said Paul I want you to drive up here. We
have an opportunity. So I drove up to Sacramento and
with Jim Rogan on one side and Sheila Qle on
the other elbow, we walked through the legislature, California legislature,
and they were introducing me around Paul. Sheila would say,
(27:51):
Paul has something for you here. Jim would say, you
have something I want you to listen to. We wrote
the bill. It was called the Premie Bill, which covered
all the premature babies who work in Hollywood, which is
most of the work. And the bill was passed in
(28:13):
about seven days and was signed the moment it could
be by the governor. And it was a slam dunk
because when you hit an room full of sincere former
kid stars who did the work. Remember we did the work.
They were watching us. When we spoke, people listened, and
(28:40):
it was in that regard we were able to press legislation.
And that's how we were able to go to Pennsylvania
to speak about the welfare of John and Kate plus
eight eight children. And those eight children were working seven
days a week, no teacher, no nurse, no salary because
(29:03):
mom and Dad were paid the directors were paid, the
writers were paid, the producers were paid, and the kids
got nothing.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Wow yes, wow, Oh I know them well booked. Six
of them were six, you know, not twins sex STUFFLI
six six.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Of thecause plus there's a set of twin girls. What
the problem is is that work for children is now global.
I have my credentials at the United Nations on behalf
of the World Safety Organization, and I go around trying
to talk to the legislators and the high mucky MUCKs,
(29:50):
and you know what their attitude is, Oh, we can
exploit our kids there. After all, our kids, do you
think that's okay? And you know something, they do think
it's okay.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
We had parents like that. What just so you could
tell folks after Donna Reed and Jeff Stone and between
them and you find yourself in that seat facing that
California Congress, what happened in the middle there that made
you become that person?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Of I got to Bob, how did you become so
sure of yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Of?
Speaker 4 (30:30):
You know, it sounds like you really liked yourself and
believed in yourself.
Speaker 6 (30:36):
I learned many things after the Donna Reed show, which
was painful in many instances, took me about four years
to go into toilet. And the industry was aware of this,
and I think was rather gleeful Pauld got his come
ups because envy and resentment is part of what young
(30:58):
performers deal with all the time. It's particularly difficult for
young boys, but it's bad enough for young women. I'm friends,
and I mean close friends with what we call angenous,
the young Stollywood harlots like Raquel Welch, Dona Lauren, Mimi Gibson,
(31:23):
Regina Lowe. These were people I worked with and admired
and whose reputations I often had to defend because people,
it gets so snarky. You know, hey, do you ever
feel her up?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
No?
Speaker 6 (31:38):
I know what happened is a guy named David Oliphant
gave me a chance, knowing about my love of cars
and my brief racing career, to write a book for
Simon and Schuster called High Performance Driving. And I took
(32:02):
it seriously and turned in the book on time, complete
with illustrations. It was well received. That made me feel good,
made me feel better than any day in front of
a camera or any day on stage for that matter.
And as that grew and I wrote more books, I
(32:25):
got to a point where I could actually defend what
I was doing. For example, when I wrote Walt, Mickey
and Me, which was a story about my time on
the Mouseketeers, and mind you, I'm the world's first ex Mouseketeer.
The first kid they fired was me. Now here's what's
(32:50):
so crazy. I'm friends with all of those Mousketeers to
this day. They know why I'm doing what I do.
They applaud what I do. They work with me on
this stuff. They themselves have people that they go out
and defend. Well. For example, I got an email from
Stan and Barry Livingston Dawn Lynn. I don't know if
(33:13):
you know this. She had a stroke two years ago
and has been in the hospital. Well. At the Hollywood
Show coming up in early September, she's going to be
in public again. With Barry and Stan and Tina Cole.
It's a miracle. We care about all of them. It's
(33:35):
not just legislation. It's three o'clock in the morning going
out on Hollywood Boulevard to try to get Dana Plato
the hell back into her apartment and get her out
of her robe and bunny slippers.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yeah, I remember picking up.
Speaker 6 (33:51):
The phone and it's that jerk radio jock who's humiliated her?
Would Stern the guy I wouldn't go on a show
when he kept calling, he asked me to go on. No, Howard,
I mean if it's a good thing. I wasn't around
him as he treated her so badly she died from
(34:14):
his treatment. Begged him not to use that axample left. No,
I don't. I don't suffer fools. Gladly I don't. And
Howard Stern, I hope a really big wave. It's the Hampton's.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
He sold out, did he?
Speaker 6 (34:35):
Ever?
Speaker 4 (34:36):
So Paul, not to digress too much. But so you
went to school on set, we had to deal with
those tutors and all that kind of thing. So he
just graduated high school? And did you go to college?
Speaker 6 (34:48):
What I did was I enjoyed the best private education
a person could have. My teacher, doctor Lillian Barkley, had
three master's degree And yes, I graduated high school of
the AP program University High. I went there two days,
(35:08):
once to register and once to graduate. And my classmates
at UNI Hi never invite me back, not to this day.
I've adopted my wife's fiftieth anniversary class from Guardina High.
But the kids at University high No, thanks, wow.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And they grew up those people.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
Too, the West side of Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:38):
You know, for as many lives as were affected by
the burn the Pacific Palisades, I just couldn't scrape up
much sympathy. Couldn't do it. I know those people, I
know those people. And when when you go in the
toilet and publicly, uh, it's everywhere around you, you know,
(36:03):
and people cluck their tongues and save whisper behind your back.
And yet I have friends in Hollywood who are yet prominent.
They won't let their kids go shopping unless I take
them because they know I'll take care of them. It's
it's bizarre, it really is. They. I don't know how
(36:26):
people can separate their life into compartments like that. I
don't understand it. I yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So are you today? Are you comfortable? Is there still
a lot of work to do? Are you comfortable where
you've brought this whole issue with the kids and the
babies and the whole scene.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
No. I want to do more, but unfortunately, as you
can tell, I don't have my health. There's a reason,
and I'm on oxygen. I was a heavy smoker. I
don't have the energy that I used to have. I'm
not believing now it's at two o'clock in the morning,
(37:13):
and I'm grateful that my wife takes such wonderful care
of me. But when pressed, I can make arrangements to
show up where I'm needed. The truth of the matter
is in the Fair Labor Standards Act, which is the
rule book for employment in the United States. There are
(37:37):
forty four exemptions to the standards. Next to last on
that list of forty four is any child engaged in entertainment. Annie, Yes, yeah,
don't get that protects your money. That's not a federal law.
(37:58):
It's a California law. The work rules are not the
same in North Carolina as in California. They are decidedly
not the same in India or Pakistan. Or you do
a movie like a slum Dog Millionaire and find out
the a little nine year old girl after the movie
(38:20):
was over was put up for sale four hundred thousand
US dollars. She was for sale. So I worked hard
at the un but it hurt because I would look
at these college educated global travelers and they didn't care.
(38:42):
I mentioned briefly, I hope you've heard this. I was
in Africa because I wanted to see how bad the
AIDS crisis was affecting children, particularly in South Africa. But
along the way I ended up and West Africa talking
(39:03):
to village Edler's elders about the children who pick our
cocoa beans. Their all children, ninety pound sacks of cocoa beans.
And I would say to the elders, why aren't you
picking the beans and letting those children be children? Well,
we did it when we were kids. They need work.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, crazy everywhere.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
Why do people strap bombs on babies in the Middle East? Unbelievable? No,
that's on.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
We don't know nobody, I don't your is your minor considerations?
Is this an active ongoing.
Speaker 6 (39:45):
Yes, it's ongoing. It's not as active as it used
to be. Everybody's getting older, you know, I lose people, Okay,
but Tony Dow's death was devastating to me. Billing grew
is in his mid eighties from Father Knows Best you
(40:06):
see for vintage celebrities, I want you to envision sausages
on a string. We are each of us, depending on
our era. We're a pulse in the body. We're a pulse.
So My era was black and white television, classic TV.
(40:28):
But you know, the people who prospered in that pulse,
that little sausage packet, they're getting old. So now you're
get in the books from the kids, from the Nickelodeon people.
You're getting Britney Spears and Jamie. You're seeing girls, particularly girls,
(40:52):
writing books that are devastating in the truth, I'm glad
my mom is dead. How about that for a title. Yeah, well,
that's because we have not solved this problem, and we
could with the stroke of his pen. The president, especially
given the power he has with Congress, they can make standard,
(41:18):
make child labor laws for the entertainment business uniform and consistent,
not only for people like me lucky enough to be
on a series, but for all those kids who are
out on the road working. I'm sure you guys have
been out there. You've seen abusive family situations. My goodness,
(41:45):
Christian families as guilty of abuse as anything you could
find in Hollywood. And that's the truth. We've got to
fix this.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
Have you seen our documentary?
Speaker 6 (42:00):
I am not no, I am not.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Well.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Have a look.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
We had a family like that.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
We could have used you. We lost every.
Speaker 6 (42:08):
Penny, really Okay, I will. I'm happy to do it.
Marianne hast been telling me I will do So.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
What's interesting, Paul, is this cause of yours was also
taking place that all the horrible things were also taking
place in the music industry. We were the kids in
that industry, and we're the ones that were being taken
advantage of it. JA, and we're the first generation. We
signed all the bad contracts, we're taking all the bad decisions,
(42:37):
and half of us are making wrong life choices. And
we're the first generation and paid the price.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
The lawyers actually had had Bob sign a sheet, you know,
saying that you know he was this age at this time, and.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah, my MGM contract, I have my signature. I was
seventeen and the paragraph above my name says, I'm telling
everyone I'm twenty one. It was crazy.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
Back then, it was great, and I agree that's because
children are easy to fool. Now, let me get something
that you'll appreciate the now. I forgot what I was
going to tell you. It was really important.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Welcome to our world.
Speaker 6 (43:18):
I got you the It was funny to watch the
faces of my adult counterparts at Screen Actors Guild and after,
where I served on the board for over twenty years
and made some progress. But they were shocked at some
of the things. I would tell them, and they would
come over later and whisper to me the things they
(43:41):
had seen on the set. And when it comes to
the music business, I get it. I get it. Believe
me I do.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Did you ever run into the Howards Ron? And yes,
the Dad and Clinton stuff? How did day fare.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
Pregnant?
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Pause?
Speaker 6 (44:02):
No, because I have to remember the names. Ricky Sorenson
who played boy in Tardsan movies. I asked him one day,
rick how is it that you made it through and
turned out to be a pretty fair country actor? And
Ricky said to me, Paul, you got to pick your
parents with care. Now let me illustrate a point on
(44:29):
happy days. Ron Howard was getting to college age and
had to make decisions, and he tried at the family
dinner table to announce his intention to not go to college. Well,
Rance nearly flew out of his chair. Young man, he said,
slapping the table. You have been telling people since you
(44:50):
were three years old that you were working in show
business so you could go to college. You will, by
God go to college. That's what it takes. You have
to be bigger than the business.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, the parent does short and.
Speaker 6 (45:08):
Look at the Olympics. Look at what we see. The abuse.
It's everywhere, and sadly it has infiltrated our educational system,
the idea the teachers are sleeping with the twelve year
old boys. Excuse me, Yeah, it's pretty wild. Good lord, Well,
(45:30):
all of that concerns me. I wish I could meet
and talk with all the parents and the kids, but
I'm going to be eighty next month, and it's it's
exceedingly difficult for me. So I have prayed on this
in hopes that a new generation will pick up the piton.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
So is anywhere to carry the torch from your hand
to their hand?
Speaker 6 (45:55):
Yes, Unfortunately we kind of skipped the generation because the
technology has changed. Can you imagine here. I could control
things when it was Hollywood over at Republic or on
CBS or at Universal because I could show up. But
now they're filming things in Georgia, in Florida and in
(46:18):
North Carolina. Overseas, they're down in Mexico and Bolivia and Ecuador.
That's a big job Paul has done. But here's what
I remembered. I wanted to tell you at a professional
level and speaking to you as professionals. The turnover rate
(46:41):
among professional children at Screen Actors Guild and after is
twenty percent per year. What that means is after five years,
the turnover rate is one hundred. It's don't stick around
a long time. You guys are miraculous. You're out there still.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
We know about that miracle well.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
And it is a miracle. And God bless you for that.
That that's that there's a special gait for you, guys,
honest engine because that's really difficult longevity. It's not appreciated,
and yet it's very important as and as you know,
every time you meet a new person, it's important because
(47:34):
it's new to them too, and it's important.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
I can't tell you how much we appreciate you coming
on here with.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Us, Paul, and all that you've done, all that you've done.
Speaker 6 (47:47):
This is an honor for me. It's so easy to
be able to talk to my friends, to speak to
John John Provosts and to Billy Ray and and be
able without having to explain deeply absolutely what we've been through.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Your family, and we are proud to be counted in
your in your cool kid club.
Speaker 6 (48:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Thanks's interfering with us and sticking with this. It took
us a little while, but we got her in and
I'm glad.
Speaker 6 (48:26):
I'm so glad you guys. Keep it up.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
We will. Yeah, this week, we'll let you know. Okay,
we'll let you know.
Speaker 6 (48:37):
Okay, please do.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Up to you.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Okay, everybody, We hope you enjoyed visiting with us today.
We definitely had a blast visiting with you.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Don't forget.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Each episode of the podcast is available to download on demand.
Speaker 5 (48:56):
So please subscribe and give us a rating thumbs up.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
You can also follow the Castles on Facebook and Atcouncil.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Dot com, and of course we will see you in concert.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
And on the road.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Until then, let's stay
Speaker 4 (49:11):
In touch by tuning in each week for another episode
of the
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.