Fire Theft Radio Interview: Supernatural Encounters, Divine Healing and Spiritual Warfare!

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I mentioned she was five foot nothing, super skinny, probably weighed no more
than one hundred pounds, very small, and she picked up Omar like he
weighed nothing, Like she had thepower of like two or three men,
like nothing, and literally picked himup from his chest like this and lifted
him up with her hands and notonly that, extended him out, So
she was like holding him with herhands extended. And that is a lot

(00:22):
of weight. He was like onehundred and fifty pounds at the time,
And there's no way a little girllike that with that frame can pick up
a man like that and slammed themagainst the wall. And so it was
pretty terrifying. And we would seethat quite a bit, but believe or
not, you get used to itbecause that's the environment you kind of in,
that's the ministry you're in. Ityou're just kind of like not thinking
about it, like, oh yeah, that was a pretty powerful demon move.

(00:43):
We got rid of it. Timeis ticking away. Welcome to the
Strange Clock Podcast with Michael and Jerry. Join us on an extraordinary journey into
supernatural news from a Christian perspective.Delve into intriguing, sometimes conspiratorial topics that
will captivate your imagination. Whether you'rea Christian, fringe believer or a truth
seeker in paranormal phenomena, This podcasta tailor made for you. Unravel mysteries,

(01:08):
share stories, and gain biblical insightsinto the supernatural expand of spiritual horizons,
and tune in now to the Strangeo'clock Podcast for an extraordinary adventure.
Welcome to the Cost Podcast otherwise knownas Strange Clock Podcast. We have our
awesome, wonderful guests tonight. We'vegot Check and Math from fire Theft Radio.

(01:30):
Welcome, Welcome, thank you,thank you, good you guys,
you on board. Yeah, andof course I have my awesome co host,
Michael Howdy. Good to be here. Glad you all are here.
So we've been trying to plan thisfor at least six months, for quite
a while, and I believe thelast time I can tell in my calendar

(01:53):
that we had talked via stream yardwas in December of twenty two and I
can't believe that now a almost ayear and a half later, that we
finally have these awesome guys on board. So they have our great show that
has a lot of listeners around theworld, and their testimonials are awesome and

(02:14):
what they have to say. Theircommentary is amazing on all kinds of subjects
from A to Z, from TikTokers, they have commentary and TikTokers and commentary
about health and conspiracy and aliens andwhat have you. They have a lot
of wisdom from the Lord about thesetopics and more. And so specifically,

(02:34):
I wanted to start off with textestimonial and then we'll dive into mad testimonial.
Does that sound good, guys?Sure sounds good. Yeah, awesome.
So Chuck, tell us about howyou came to know the Lord.
I'd love to hear your testimonial again. Oh okay, cool. Well,
first of all, thanks for listeningand giving us that shout out. We
do try to do a lot ofsubjects, because that's why we ended up

(02:58):
doing the Hell Hydro series. Ithink it's all connected in some way or
another. It's important that people knowthat, and it really I keep saying
it a lot. It was ourkind of wall with newspaper, connecting all
the strings and things like that forus, because there's so much involved in
the background that Christians don't care todive into. I think that's why this

(03:19):
ministry kind of exists in general.I go to a lot of different churches
and visit in those conversations are notreally had, which is it's okay.
I get it that maybe church mightnot be the place exactly, and that's
fine, but there's always those peoplein like Heiser used to say, in
the Middle Earth that kind of aresearching for a little bit more. And
so we're just trying to kind ofswim that line where we're somewhere in the

(03:42):
fringe world but try to ground itat the same time. And I don't
know, so that's what we're tryingto do at least. So thank you
for the shout out, and itmeans a lot, you know. I'm
glad somebody likes it, you know, so I appreciate that. But how
did I come to know the Lord? So? Oh well, that's a
long story, but I'll try andkeep it as concise as possible. But
growing up, you know, grewup in a very dysfunctional family. We

(04:05):
are Mexican. We were kind ofclassic lackadays ago Catholics growing up, you
know, we're just not really doingthe Catholic thing, but we believed in
the Catholic Church and things like that. But My mom was always a searcher.
I was the only one born herein America. My sisters everyone was
born in Mexico, and they cameover here just you know, for chasing

(04:25):
that American dream, working hard,trying to provide for the family and all
that good stuff. But my momgot involved with witchcraft pretty early on because
her relationship with my father was notgood at all. It was very dysfunctional,
a lot of fights. My dadwas a drunk since he was thirteen
years old, I believe twelve orthirteen. Started very young, and so

(04:47):
that's kind of the environment I grewup as them fighting. My dad drunk
every day, not a single daywas went by without him being drunk,
and so it was very hostile.You know, it was very hostile,
and so my mom was trying tofind solutions. You know, she just
felt like the Catholic Church wasn't thething. She was, you know,
starting to practice pretty ardently, butit didn't nothing was really fixing anything.

(05:09):
So in her search she went toyou know, the spiritual New Age,
conjuring different things, I mean allover the place, and that was a
bad idea. Obviously, your audiencemight know that that kind of opens up
portals to the supernatural, and sowe were having a lot of weird paranormal
activity in the household, with verystrange sleep aroalysis. For me, for

(05:31):
example, I used to see theentities kind of come into the room.
They look like cloaked bodies, andthey would hold me down and whisper,
and I can hear them pray andsay things or something. I could never
make it out. It was likea different language, but they would definitely
hold me in my place, andsometimes they were like ugly faces floating over
my face when I would wake up. And that was my experience with sleep

(05:54):
arouses. It was never pleasant.It was never like the I just can't
move. It was always usually prettyweird in some way or another. And
at the time I didn't even knowthat it was happening during the witching hour
exactly at three in the morning andall that stuff. And so, you
know, this is me growing upas a child, you know, I
was, I don't know, nineto eleven years old. That was like

(06:16):
normal to me sort of, orI'm like, this is just stuf,
just just happens, I guess.And my other sisters, of course,
they were not doing well as well. Two of them tried to commit suicide.
One of them became a Buddhist actuallybecause my mom decided to go to
the Buddhist route and oh wow,yeah, and it was a Japanese form

(06:38):
of Buddhism called Soka gut Guy andit was actually a great Yeah, I'm
familiar with that, Okay, sothere's actually a great time. They're they're
pretty they're pretty knowledgeable people, butsure. But what I learned later,
of course, is that they're takinga lot of biblical principles and just kind
of turning it into I don't know, the universe energy force, things like

(06:58):
that. It really boils down tothings like that. So I mean,
I'm I'm sure if anybody's listening aspart of it, they're like, no,
it's more complicated than that. I'mlike, yes it is. But
at the same at the end,it really just comes down to almost like
Jedi stuff, like you can tapinto this force and it can be either
what ter evil. And that's whywe would do these specific prayers with beads,

(07:18):
because we were trying to manifest ourreality, manifest our blessings into our
lives and things like that, andso just kind of taking faith and taking
authority and all the things that ourbiblical concepts and turning it on its head,
you know. So that's kind ofwhat we were doing so that all
this paranormal activity, believe it ornot. A witch doctor lady is what

(07:39):
told told my mom that your yourlife is so messed up that you have
to you need Jesus. That's literallywhat she said. She's like, you
need Jesus. I can't fix you, nothing can can help you. And
the witch doctor lady told us togo to church and look for Jesus,
which is really interesting and so reallyyeah, so we went to a place

(08:01):
that she said, and it's funnybecause she had a different perspective of church
in general. She believed in itand what Jesus could do, but didn't
want to follow it. So itreminded me of like Old Testament witches where
they know there's powers and other religions, but they're like, I don't want
to give myself to that, butit does work from what I hear.

(08:22):
He gave me that vibe. Sothat's what she did. We ended up
going there. She used to gothere, she said, because they would
do deliverance there. There was adeliverance ministry, and because she was in
the in you know, cleansing ofspiritual activity, that was her business,
her witch doctor stuff. She saidshe would go there every now and then
for a spiritual cleansing during the deliveranceso that she can continue to do her

(08:46):
work, because if she didn't,then she would be too disturbed or perturbed
by these demons at night, andso she needed to go look for God
for a little to cleanse herself ofthose demons and then go back to her
witch witchcraft stuff, which was thatwas her perspective, you know what I
mean. And I was like,okay, well, at the time,
we just went because at the atthat point, my father was dying of

(09:09):
cirrhosis. My mother was dying froma brain injury done to her on purpose
because somebody tried to murder her,and she was hemorrhaging from her ears,
like blood from her brain and theblood would come out of her ears literally,
and so the doctors were telling herlike, you have you know,
less than a year, and sodoes my father. So we were like

(09:31):
that was like our last resort sortof thing. And she went there on
a Tuesday to pray for healing becausethey have a service for healing, specifically
all of her all of her symptomsthat came with the injury because she had
a fractured skull and she had herbrain was shifted a little bit. You
can see the blood that was coagulatingand kind of you know when they take

(09:52):
the MRIs and all that stuff,you can see all those things, all
of that stuff in one prayer disappear, all the brain, all the injuries
disappeared. So she didn't know whathappened. So she went to go check
again and the doctors were like baffled. They were like, what's going on?
What did you do? And theywere like yeah, yeah, And
she was like, I don't know. I just went to this church and

(10:15):
all I can do. All Ican tell you is that it's all gone.
And they're like, well, that'snot possible. Like literally, it
like had never happened. Her brainand her skull, everything was completely healed,
and she got all the mobility backbecause she wasn't able to move that
well, all her or all herhunger back. She wasn't able to eat
before she would vomit it after sheshe ate My father the same exact story.

(10:37):
He was bleeding, you know,throwing up blood dying from Cirrhosi's liver
completely destroyed holes on the liver.It was just bad. They were like
the same thing, you you're youknow, obviously you don't give a liver
to a drunk, and so theywere just like, you're, you don't
got much time, bro, andso just kind of letting them die and
tell them take this medicine so itdoesn't hurt that bad, basically was the

(11:00):
thing he heard. And he decidedto come to church too, and and
same thing. All of a sudden, all the symptoms are gone, and
he went to go get checked andall of that was gone. To his
liver was brand new. And sothey were like, okay, I think
God's real, you know what Imean. And so that led us to
all he obviously that took the thatmade them take the whole family to church,

(11:24):
and little by little, over time, as we decided to give ourselves
over to the Lord, all ofthe sleep paralysis went away, all of
the seeing shadows during the night orduring the day went away. All of
the move the thing there was,moving furniture, all of that stuff that
you see in movies, all ofthat went away. It disappeared completely.

(11:45):
My family completely changed, except forthe one Buddhist sister. She's still a
Buddhist, but everyone else kind ofwent the Christian route. So there's always
that one. You know, we'reworking he's not yet a Christian, not
yet exactly. Yes, yeah,definitely, that is right. Yeah,
and so yeah. And I wasfifteen, six fifteen or sixteen when like

(12:07):
things started just turning around. Itwas a Wednesday night. They did an
altar call, I said, andthey said, you know, if you
want to receive the Lord, AndI remember getting on my knees. I
remember feeling a tremendous heat come overmy whole body, Like I felt hot,
like like I was burning up,and this overwhelming joy just kind of

(12:28):
like feel me. And I whenI stood up, I felt light as
a feather, like like the wayof the world was lifted for me.
And I was like, whoa,this is wow, this is crazy.
And you know, I had alittle, my fair share of a little
backsliding story, of course, butyou know that just kind of led me
into Fire Theft Radio. To behonest, that the season in which I
decided to you know, be alittle backslider literally molded the future for Fire

(12:54):
Theft radio. So God knew whathe was doing. You know, he
brought me back for sure and madesomething even out of my sin, you
know, so praise God. Sothat's kind of a in short the story
right there. That was powerful.Man. I haven't heard anybody mention Soca
Got Guy in so long. That'sso interesting. Is your sister in Soca

(13:16):
Got Guy? Or yeah? Still? Yeah? Okay, Well I was
in Japan and interacted quite a bitwith those guys and very interesting. They're
they're very powerful, kind of likethe scientology of Japan. Yeah, quite
a bit. And really yeah therethere's a whole separation between them now,
but that's a whole story. Andreally, oh man, wow, it's

(13:37):
been so long since I've ever evenheard anything about them, but that is
powerful. That was amazing when Iheard your testimonial and amplified format I think
on your show or maybe you wereguessing somebody else's show, and you went
into detail about some of the paranormalthings that you saw before you guys got
saved. I was blown away,but most of more than I'm blown away

(14:01):
by how the Lord healed your momand then healed your dad and showed all
of you that Jesus is real thatthat God directly healed them. Jesus is
the way. You know. What'sinteresting is I was raised as a Buddhist,
that I never was a Buddhist,if that makes any sense. Just
like a person is Catholic or Christianand they never became a Christian or Catholic,

(14:22):
and that's kind of something similar.So there's a lot of Americans or
you know, Latino Americans, Europeansand people from other cultures that are not
Asian that are drawn to that becausesometimes they see hypocrisy, you know,
within the Catholic or Christian Church orwhatever. Was that maybe part of the
reason why your family turned to Buddhismand they kind of saw that maybe Catholicism
or Christianity was kind of why orwhat have you, or at least the

(14:46):
version that they were seen that theyhad seen. Yes, sort of.
I mean, like I said,there were lack of days ago from the
beginning. But unfortunately, my motherwas always the leader of the family,
not my father. So whatever shedid, we did, and just it
was like the classic Mexican mom.There was like no option, like You're
gonna do what I'm doing? Isthat was it? And so we're like,
all right, well yes, ma'am, you know, yes, sir.

(15:07):
So that's really what it was.And then as I was there in
that church, I did leave thatchurch because I did find out later that
they were doing a lot of unbiblicalthings and they've changed a lot. Actually,
I think they got a lot ofpeople complain they got caught up with
a lot of the nonsense that's notin the Bible. But I'm a firm
believer that God of course works andpulls the people he wants into his kingdom

(15:33):
in no matter any place that theymay be. I'm not saying that's a
place you should stay wherever you foundChrist. I'm not saying that, But
I do feel that if God's reachingout and he's calling you, you'll find
him even in places like that andthat were just you know, way off
and many doctrinately speaking, but ultimatelyyou know God's reaching out and you can

(15:54):
feel it, like if you listento God's voice, you can definitely feel
like something feels wrong here, likeI you know, especially if you start
asking questions about certain doctrines and theygive you the whole Now, you're reading
the Bible too much. You can'tdo that, And I'm like, really
the book could that helped my wholefamily? We can't read it too much,
like that's that doesn't make any sense. We're supposed to know, you

(16:15):
know, we're supposed to I meanit says it right here be a Maria
no, no, it left andright. I mean, you have to
know the word. But so that'sreally what it was, is our mom
leading us there. And then lateras I got older and I started,
you know, thinking for myself alittle bit, it kind of it kind
of led me in a different direction. That's awesome. So how long ago
did your mom and dad get saved? And how long ago did did you

(16:38):
get saved or reach out to Jesus? Yeah, so I'm thirty eight now,
so what was that twenty something years? You know it's been because I
was fifteen, Yeah, I wasfifteen. Wow, So right before that,
I mean, my mom was alreadyChristians. So there've been Christians for
a while. And we have goodconversations. Even though we don't go to
the same church and stuff like that. We she she's well aware of a

(17:02):
lot of the stuff that doesn't makesense, but you know, we talk
and you know, it's not.It's not a bad relationship. I know
some people, you know, whenthey go to a different denomination or something
else, it just it's not eventhey can't even see each other and things
like that. That's not the typeof environment that we have over here.
But so I'm blessed by that becauseI know it's not not easy for some
people. You know, but it'sbeen a while. Yeah, it's been

(17:25):
a long time. That's awesome.There is a testimonial by another Brother in
Christ brought for Millennial Mustard Seed thathe didn't know the Lord and that his
mom decided to stop the allopathic medicinesand just go the spiritual route and just
went to church to start believing thatGod could heal her from cancer, from

(17:45):
fatal cancer, and the mom washealed and come into the Lord. I
think that's really one of the majorways that people come to the Lord is
direct healing. I would say that'sprobably probably the number one way, you
know, the New Testament that peoplecame to have faith in Jesus is is
be healed, be delivered from demons, et cetera. Yeah, that's that's

(18:08):
totally awesome. I'm really happy tohear that. It's a powerful motivator for
sure, and at the very leastit shows people that God is real because
even the New Testament, you know, when was it he healed ten blind
people and only like two return orsomething like that, or and what was
it? Mav correct me if I'mwrong, But is the lepers? Yeah?

(18:29):
The lepers? There you go.And so but my point, I
think God really does that to showlike, hey, I'm real. So
it gives the people the decision ofof like are you going to follow me
or not? Because this is reallya thing that I could do. Especially
we were just talking about this actually, MAV and I in the morning about
what's the context of like healing inthe in the in the New Testament,
Like what's the context of miracles andthings like that, And what was he

(18:52):
really doing? Is it wasn't justJesus like, chok it out, I
got powers. Look what I cando? Oh you know what I mean?
And it was it was way morethan that. And I think it
has more to do with kind oflike the healing of the nations and the
the the kind of overt spiritual wayof saying, my kingdom is getting spread
right now, like I'm spreading mykingdom and at the same time spiritually like

(19:14):
rooting out, So I'm taking awaythis other kingdom that is established, and
he's healing the land in the sense, you know, it's a really Old
Testament sort of view of like I'mshowing you my power that the way you've
lived is no bueno and it's ledyou to this and I can there can
be a better life. And it'sone of the many reasons I feel that
Jesus was actually demonstrating healing and thingslike that. And I think if Christians

(19:38):
knew that, they probably would believein healing more. And when they go
to places like mav soon is goingto Uganda and many other places, you
can you can show that sort ofpower and it really will I don't know
it's gonna it can touch people's heartsfor real, to to make at least
them at least make them aware ofGod's power and what he can do.

(20:00):
Yeah. I'd like to mention toowith your testimony talking about that extreme joy
that you felt when you received theHoly Spirit and receive salvation, and that
that's a real thing that you canexperience every day guys, anytime you just
open your heart to the Lord nowone of the reasons I think a lot
of us do our shows, ourpodcasts, and you know, I'm doing

(20:23):
spirit Force pretty much every day andtrying to get other people to do it.
You know, join me. Let'sshare the word, read the word
is It's America is a tough witnessingfields. It's really tough, and the
Internet kind of provides that sense thatyou can reach any random person. You're
kind of machine gunning it out,but you're sharing the truth, You're sharing

(20:44):
the gospel. You know, we'redoing these paranormal interviews and things that hopefully
will attract people to the truth andthen get them plant the seeds, plant
the seeds. What experience have youguys seen in Fire Theft Radio with that
dynamic with people maybe messaging you,emailing you that have been affected by the
show, that you've seen come toknow the Lord or at least getting closer

(21:07):
to the Lord. I'm always curiousto hear. How is the mission on
your front going, gentleman, how'sthe fishing over there going? Yeah?
I think MAV has had some interestinginteractions with your own church members know about
like how they see certain things.But I don't know if you want to
share that I can share some stuffon my end from people that because I
usually deal with all the emails,I get all the hate mail and all

(21:30):
the love mail everything, So yeah, I let Chuck take care of all
that. Yeah, But what Ican share is is because I want to.
I want MAV to share that too, because I think it's powerful because
he you know, sometimes we geta little discouraged with our own church people
or or people around us because theydon't really reciprocate well this information. But

(21:52):
there's been some some cool stuff thathe shared with me that that I find
really cool. But I have gottenquite a bit of mail, and I
thought it was solute blessing and itwas supernatural and divine the way this happened
because when Omar my old co host, when he couldn't really come on the
show anymore, I was kind ofrunning at solo and it's a bit overwhelmed

(22:14):
me and I was, I don'tknow, having some issues kind of with
like myself and wondering like why isit in the show growing as much as
it could and why our other showsgrowing faster? And I was like it
was like bugging my head, likelike am I doing something wrong? I
got to be praying more, fastingmore like what I got to do.
You know, it was really buggingme, and I feel like, you

(22:36):
know, the unseen realm, thespiritual beings, demons, satan, you
know, whatever name you want toput. It was really attacking me that
way in my head, like reallymessing with my head, telling me like,
don't even do the show no more. It's not even worth it really
and and you know, you're wastingtime. And sometimes it would mess with
my family time because I didn't reallybalance the time that well, and it

(22:57):
would kind of cause issues the familytime. So it's a hard thing to
balance, you know, especially youknow, if you know the show.
I don't really I ask for donations, but I mean, quite frankly,
we don't get hardly any It's notit's not a thing that I care about.
So everything's right, you know,we pay for it, we do
it, and I'm not complaining aboutit. I'm saying like I love to
do it. So this is myministry and I'm okay with that. I'm

(23:19):
one hundred percent okay with that.So I was just like, okay,
So it's kind of a financial burdentoo, and what do I do I'm
not sure. And I had decidedalready, like, oh, you know
what, I'm not going to doFirethift anymore. And this was like a
couple of years ago. And andthe last thing I prayed, I said,
God, if you want me tocontinue the show, I mean,

(23:40):
make it, make it like stupidlyobvious, because I'm so like, you
know, I just don't get itsometimes. Ru I'm like, I feel
like looking back so many times hewas really making it obvious and I was
just like, nah, it's notit. And so I was just really
telling him, like make it,make it really obvious because I'm a dummy,
you know, And so he did. I mean, I got so
much mail in one week that I'vehadn't gotten in like years of the show.

(24:07):
In one week, I got emailafter email, DM after DM,
dang dang random things. One guyeven repeated the thoughts that I had in
my head. Was like he waslike, if you're thinking of stopping the
show, don't do it, becauseit's blessed me so much. It's helped
much. And another guy is like, I actually left a cult because of

(24:29):
your show. I didn't know itwas in a cult, and I left
it and it really helped me findpeace because we did like these emotional intelligence
episodes, and he was struggling withnot knowing what to do after you leave
a cult because the cult becomes youridentity. So you're like, I don't
know what to do, and sohe was like dealing with stuff. People
that were dealing with psychological and spiritualissues were emailing me, and it was

(24:53):
just like confirmation after confirmation of Iguess I got to continue the show,
you know what I mean. Andso I remember reading those especially that one
where I told you if we werethinking of stopping the show and breaking down,
like I cried because I was like, I knew, I knew it
was God so much because that prayerof whether I wanted to do the show

(25:14):
or not, I did it insilence. I literally did it in my
head because I didn't want even thethoughts to be out there that it was
like crossing my mind. I literallydid it in silence between me and God.
Only he knew what I was thinkingand feeling. And you know,
after that, I was just likewow, And it was still it's crazy
because I was still kind of doubtingit, and I think at the time

(25:37):
I was still talking to Mav alittle bit, and I might have even
shared after the fact where I waslike, dude, I was about to
stop this whole thing and things likethat, but I didn't. And then
and then Mav, i know,was like, hey man, I can
help you with the show too,and it was taking a burden off my
back and I was like, ohyeah, okay, cool, and that
just kind of all fell into place, and then you know, Mav became
part of the show and it wasjust kind of part of this whole answered
prayer thing. So it really thatwas like my biggest thing where I knew

(26:00):
I was like, all right,stop worrying so much. Do what you're
doing, and for who it's for, it's going to reach them, and
that's that. And so I,like you said earlier, Michael, I
mean you were like, we're machinegunning it. I'm definitely machine gunning it,
but it's like the aim of thatbullet. I know, God's in
control of that, you know whatI'm saying. It's like and it's like,

(26:21):
all right, you know, we'lljust I always say I'm going to
do my best and God will dothe rest and we'll go from there,
you know. And so encouraging.You know, that was like that was
like my experience for me. Sountil further notice, I'm going to keep
doing the show, maybe until Iget arrested or throw me in a feline
camp or something, you know,and then bro, that's awesome. And
you know, I think that thatis a major tactic of the enemy to

(26:45):
discourage people for ministry, because itis a ministry. Even though we're not
physically knocking on doors and you know, asking hey, can I pray for
you, and you know Jesus andgoing through the you know, the four
Spiritual laws and things of that nature, it is still a ministry. And
enemy wants to take down the peoplethat he knows that the Lord could use

(27:06):
us to reach. And I've hadthose same exact thoughts, check the same
exact thoughts where I thought, Okay, there's more cost time wise. Cost
to my family was just my husbandat this point, and you know,
it seems like there was more cost. The benefit analysis was like way more
cost and very little reward. Butthen the same thing when I had asked

(27:29):
the Lord to give me peace inmy heart, show me confirmation after and
he did. There's so many differentways and I'm incredibly naive spiritually, and
the Lord has to really use hissigns and wonders, and he did in
so many different unusual ways, andI thought, okay, I will not
quit Lord. And so yeah,I'm so glad that you talked about your
doubts and concerns, you know,a couple of years ago and such.

(27:52):
So that's awesome. All right,check, Well, thank you so much
for sharing your testimonial and a littlebit about fire theft radio, and so
we're going to circle to now.So now tell us about how you came
to know the Lord and how yougot started with a radio. Oh well,
my testimony doesn't involve so many differentHow do I put in mechanisms as

(28:15):
Chucks. I grew up in aChristian home, and when I was six
years old, I heard the Gospel, and frankly, I was embarrassed to
tell anyone that I had accepted Jesus'ssavior because I was so old. You
know, I had not understood ituntil I was six, You you know
what I mean. So, Iyou know, I grew up going to
church, and you know, thereare a lot of people who say,

(28:37):
oh, they have their rebellious phase. I didn't really I just sort of
followed after the Lord, and youknow, the Holy Spirit really put in
my heart to want to please him. And yet I went to Christian school
when I was younger, and Ilearned a lot of amazing truths that stuck
with me. And and yeah,when I when I was in middle school,

(29:00):
I was in junior high, Iwas homeschooled for three years or so,
and it was really during that timewhere you know, if you know
what you're doing, you can finishall your school work in about an hour
and a half. So I didthat. I've been there. Yeah,
you know what I'm talking about.And then you can do whatever you want.
So things like I watched all ofthe all of Quantum Leap. You

(29:22):
know, that was on the SciFi Channel, So I watched that.
But what I else I got todo was to read just a bunch of
amazing books and learned from so manydifferent teachers and preachers. And when I
was I think it was around twelveeleven or twelve, that's when I first
cut my teeth on studying eschatology,so really getting into that. But it's

(29:45):
around that time where I really didn'thave many friends. I was home all
the time, you know, Iwasn't in school, so you know,
I can't drive anymore. And Ihappened to live in an area where I
didn't there were no kids like anywherearound. But I regarded the Lord as
my friend and so really leaned intothat. And so that really impacted my

(30:07):
prayer life and the direction that Iwanted to go because I wanted to please
him. And I remember the nightwhere I was really just praying and said,
you know, Lord, I reallywant friends. And then the next
Sunday we started going to a newchurch. There were two guys in there.
You know, I always went tochurch early, and I was there

(30:27):
before everybody, you know, andjust I went and didn't really talk to
anyone or they didn't talk to me. But these two guys in there met
him that Sunday after praying that prayer, and they were just they became my
best friends. And it was justfunny. It was like an immediate answer
to prayer, which sounds like likea silly thing. It's not you know,
lightning in the sky or you know, demonic oppression or anything like that,

(30:51):
but just the fact that I askedfor that and I immediately received,
you know, that good thing fromthe Lord was pretty and I ended up
staying really great friends with those guysall through college. So just seeing the
Lord answer those types of prayers,you know, it was pretty pretty amazing.
But it was around that time whereI really gave my life over,
not just in a Selvafic type ofway, but said, all right,

(31:12):
Lord, if you have redeemed me, then I will do whatever you want
me to do. I want tobe in ministry, so, you know,
and it was settled in my heartthat it would be in some form
of missions. And so starting atfifteen, heading down to Mexico, that
was the first time I preached.I was down there when I was fifteen

(31:33):
and just was able to take kindof any opportunity I had to teach and
to preach, and ended up goingto babble school, I went to seminary
and just really leaned into that Iwas a missions major going through school,
and so that was that was reallywhat the Lord had on my heart.
I had the wonderful blessing being ableto go to I think I've been to

(31:55):
Mexico like a dozen times. Iwent to Croatia and summer two thousand and
sort of saw the aftermath of thatmajor war took place in the nineties,
spent a few years in New Zealand, spent when I was in the seminary,
I went to India for four monthsor so, amazing things there,

(32:15):
got to help with a planning outa church out there, and then around
twenty ten it was the first timeI was able to go to Uganda and
pretty unique ministry. Actually, it'sa church planning group that's actually in Uganda.
You gone and run, you goneand led, and we just come
alongside and helped train pastors, helpedteach different things. But anyway, so

(32:37):
that's sort of the direction I'm going. So maybe at some point we can
talk about that sort of the futureplans there, things that are sort of
that the Lord's bringing into place.So yeah, as far as that goes,
that's that's sort of really really blastedthrough testimony. And I always thought
I had a boring testimony, butyou know, it's not really boring if

(32:57):
the Lord saves you, right,you know, put you on a path
that he has for you. Soit's not flashy, but it is what
it is. As far as firetheft radio, first time I started getting
into the fringy stuff was about whenI was eleven or twelve. You started
young on everything, dude, Idid. And it was funny. My
dad was when he's like, hey, you like all that weird stuff,
you should listen to Coast to Coast, And I did, And boy,

(33:23):
if you haven't listened to Coast andCoast. That was the old school AM
radio. That's what you had beforepodcasting. That's how you got into the
fringe was Coast to Coast. Yes, and Unsolved Mysteries that was the other
one. So of course you've gotbetween those two you get sort of a

(33:43):
mainstreamy type of fringe education. ButI spent one springtime when I was homeschool
went to stay with my grandparents forthe sort of like the spring summer.
And my grandfather was a wonderful man. He whenever he saw Ministry on TV,
he would just buy whatever book packagethey had. He just wanted to

(34:04):
give to the ministry. Suit youjust get the biggest one. They just
put all on in the basement.And so when I got there, there
was thousands of books in the basement. We were there for about five months,
so I dug through all of theice. He said I could have
whatever I wanted a lot of eschatologybooks and let me let me just see
if I can pull it out here. Here you go, here's a blast

(34:28):
from the past. Here crash gothe chariots. This is a response to
Chariot of the Gods. Oh sothis is getting to the old von Donakin
sort of thing. So this wasthe ancient alien concepts before ancient aliens really,
and this little book I've since lostthe original one I had, and

(34:50):
I repurchased it because I just wantedto have it in my library. This
was how I got into the fringystuff. And it was funny becau because
then also when I'm staying with mygrandparents, watched Battle Star Galactica, which
if you know battle the original onefrom the eighties, If you know Battle
Star Galactica, it is this.It is this idea of the ancient alien

(35:15):
type of stories. And so thisis where I really started to get into
some of those things. So thefirst time I heard, you know that
the Genesis sixth conspiracy type of thing, I was like, Oh, yeah,
that That's what I've been reading about. That's exactly what this is interesting.
So it was it was kind ofinteresting how the Lord brought all this

(35:35):
into sort of into my life atthat time, sort of dealing with some
of those concepts, those ideas,you know, alternate concepts for the pyramids,
for aliens, for all these differentthings. So yeah, pretty early
on sort of jumping into a lotof those things. And I think what
that really helped helped me develop,or what the Lord is developing in me,
was the ability to just hear somethingand even if it's outlandish to say,

(35:59):
all right, let's consider let's considerthe merits. Let's you know,
obviously there's going to be you know, soft points or things that we shouldn't
consider, but that sort of mentalitybeing able to say, well, okay,
let's listen to it, and thenthe what if, what if this
was something that could fit? Andso that perspective, let me just tell

(36:21):
you, if you haven't gone toa Bible school, if you haven't gone
to a seminary, that is notthe perspective most people have. Exactly.
It's find the category that you youknow, the category of denomination that you're
in, and that's it. That'syour lane. You don't look outside of
any of those things. So Ireally do think the Lord is preparing,
preparing me, preparing my heart,preparing my mind to be able to look

(36:43):
at some of these things and reallyflexing that discernment muscle, being able to
compare different different things, different theories, different ideas, and look and still
have that solid foundation of scripture,and Chuck and I talk about all the
time. If we didn't have,I don't know how people go well,
I don't know how people go throughthere just normal day, But I don't
know how people delve down into therabbit holes without some sort of firm foundation,

(37:07):
without that rope title around your waist. Right, all right, I'm
going to get back out of hereand go back to the truth that I
know and understand. I can totallyunderstand people getting lost in all those things,
absolutely, And Check and I talkabout all the time those types of
things and what is that? Whatis that next thing? What? What
is the what is the pitfall thatpeople are falling in? And how can

(37:29):
we really delve into it and delveinto it in a certain way that you
know, allows for conversation, right, but keeps that backbone of truth.
And I think that's that's where wewant to be. And yeah, so
check check was talking about what youknow when I kind of joined fire thet

(37:52):
But I remember the original conversation thatwe had. Check I'll send you a
message. You know, this isobviously pre COVID and whatever, but it's
like, hey, so, whatare your thoughts on virus versus terrain theory?
Do you remember that? Oh,germ theory versus train Yeah? Yeah,
what did I say? Yeah,virus theory, Yeah, germ theory
versus terrain theory. We had aconversation, and it's funny. I don't

(38:14):
think we've ever returned to that topic, but well, I thought it was
funny because I was barely researching thatstuff. And that's, by the way,
that's how almost every show of fireTheft has ever happened. I randomly
researched something and then somebody else askedme a question about it, and immediately
I know, I'm like, thisis the next show, Like this is
what it's going to be, youknow, spirit led it really is it.

(38:37):
So I was just randomly looking intothat stuff and then he just DMS
me asking me that question. I'mlike, what in the world's going on?
And yeah, we never did theepisode, but we did talk about
it. Yeah, and so justyeah, I mean, that's that's kind
of where we're hopped in. Ithink you can still get the original podcast
episode talking about about Bible study orhuman herbanuticts. I think that was the

(39:02):
first one when you came on.Yeah, I did Biblical Context volume two
or three? You were on,Yeah, yeah, how did you guys
know? And I have other questionsfor you, Matt, but what lets
you guys know that? Okay,we're gonna we got to work together,
like, let's let's team up here. I don't think Chuck asked me,
So that's that's more. It wasa thing. So over the years,

(39:24):
I've had a lot of people tellme they want to be my co host
because everyone, especially now, everyonewants to have a podcast. It's like
you can make a podcast about catsand dogs whatever. Everything. It's you
know, it's such a thing.And so when they find out I have
a podcast, everyone's like, oh, let me be on it, and
you know, I can be yourco host. And obviously you can't just

(39:45):
put know somebody on there or anybody. You know. What it was is
early on, I was pretty deepinto that fringe. I got a little
loss in that sauce. As theysay, not not the drink, but
the sauce of the fringe, youknow, like you're just in there and
you're just like and I say ita lot on the show. That's why
I say it. You can havedinner with the Mad Hatter for way too

(40:06):
long and you're just like, wait, this is this is a feel yeah,
and I'm like it's too much.And I just felt like I needed
to ground myself and really take astep back, which is why we're not
too fringe. You we don't godown a specific thing. I mean we
do, we like we analyze everything. But when I had the conversations,

(40:27):
long story short, when I hadthe conversations with him, I immediately felt
like he knew a lot about allof these things, but was like very
grounded and just the way he expressedhimself. It wasn't like I didn't get
a kookie vibe at all. AndI don't know, I just felt that
I just kind of was like,I feel I feel like I kind of
want, you know, want towork more with him. And we had

(40:50):
we're having a conversation more after theshow that we recorded, and yeah,
he was just like, you know, well be down to help too,
and things like that, and Iwas like, all right, let's do
it man, and haven't regretted itsince, and now we're like finally going
to meet each other in person.I think hopefully we make it happen in
July, because we've never offessionally met, you know what I mean, So

(41:13):
yeah, because he's he's too faraway from me. He's like seven hours
away, so yes, yeah,so I'm yeah, we were supposed to
hang out and things like that,so we're going to make it happen this
year finally. Yay. It's gonnabe like those videos where those gamer kids
meet their other gamer buddy from anotherstate. I'm a third party video and
I was that person that's almost metChuck actually when my husband and I were

(41:37):
in southern California for me to renewmy ty passport, and we were so
close yet so far it was ourschedules just didn't mash up, but we
were almost we almost met, Andthat would have been kind of ironic if
I met Chuck before Chuck met closenow I know. So California is definitely
like worlds apart. I agree.I actually was raised in California camera part

(42:00):
to be exact, for twelve orteen years, so I totally get it.
Yeah, so that's what it was. I just kind of prayed about
it. I was looking for somethingbecause I knew I mean, at first
I thought I could do it onmy own, but you really can't.
You kind of feel like, well, at least I kind of feel like
this is because I mean, ifyou listen to some of those shows,

(42:21):
I can babble on forever. Andactually that's the biggest complaint on the emails
is Chuck talks too much, youknow what I mean, he just and
so that's like the biggest complaint ofit. Yeah, yeah, it's a
talk show. Come on, guys, I I know how Patty. It's
because it's because they say, liketoo much on your show, buddy,
I know, how dare you?It doesn't work. But no, like
the complaint is like I get excitedwhen someone the guests, confirms my research.

(42:45):
So then I go off the subjectand I don't let them talk,
maybe as much as the people likeand would like to hear. And then
they're like thinking that I'm trying tobe like sophomoric or I'm trying to be
like just like I'm intrusive and thingslike that, but I I'm just excited
that what I've been looking into yourit's matching up with his stuff. And
he's the researcher, he's the author, he's the scholar, and I'm just

(43:08):
chuck over here, and it's matching. So I'm like excited about it and
I want to share more about itand things like that. Has nothing to
do with me trying to sound smartor wanting to sound smart. I really
just get excited. But but yeah, that's what that's what happened. I
just told MAV to come on andwe we we've been working it out ever
since. And I do feel andI've told him that this a lot.

(43:29):
I do feel like he grounds metoo, because sometimes I get a little
over excited about certain things and thenhe's like, yeah, but maybe it's
another thing, you know what Imean. I'm like, uh, you're
right, let me think about ita little bit more. I'm the wet
blanket, but what if this crazything Like yeah, no, that that's
that's not a thing. And soalso I'm not ashamed to say I theologically

(43:50):
speaking, he he he. Ifeel like he knows a lot more than
I do. I mean, thatwas his kind of his background and stuff
like that. So when I misquotesomething or say something. You know,
you know, we talk about it. Actually ask him a lot even this
morning. I was like, whatdo you think about this? I'm reading
Matthew things like that, and soyou know, it's been a blessing.
You know, I'm glad to havethem on great team. Wow, it

(44:10):
brings me back to mav your testimonyabout the basement full of those books like
Chariots of the Gods and these differentwe hear those, but you were reading
them firsthand. How has that evolvedin your mind till now in your intellectual
map today where there's so many peopletalking about this, has there been a
lot of new discoveries in your opinion? Have you have you kind of evolved

(44:34):
in your own and I guess yourguys is understanding world view of that.
I think just having you know,and I'm not you know, I'm not
super old. I'm you know,older but not not that old. But
having been reading even some of theseoriginal works that have been you know,
quoted and then quoted again and thenyou know, four or five different responses

(44:57):
those those types of work and thingslike that, I think just being exposed
to a lot of different things,you almost become like you're in forensics or
you're interviewing a perp that's I can'tthink of anything word, you know,
and you're cross examining and you're lookingto see what is it that that is
fitting with these stories, what's connecting. I think doing that you kind of

(45:22):
start to see, Okay, Ithink some of this is true. I
think some of this because so manypeople are deceived, right, So how
do you figure out where the deceptionis and where the truth is? And
like I said, you always canfollow that rope back to the solid foundation
of scripture, but you keep doingthat and you start to build that world
view to say this can fit,this doesn't fit. I'm not sure what

(45:45):
to do with this. And sothe longer that you that you're sort of
in those different things like the UFOtheories, I mean, goodness gracious for
decades, all the different types oftheories that have been going on, I'm
very you know, personally, I'mvery unchuck knows this. I'm very unimpressed
with this whole discolo movement thing.I think it's just a bunch of bologney.
But you say that and everybody who'ssuper excited and made their whole life

(46:07):
about disclosure. They don't like that, but that's I mean, it's sort
of like we've been talking about thisfor generations, Like I don't know why
this is still so captivating, Likewe have to have the government tell us
a thing before it's true, thosetypes of things. What I've actually noticed
is some of the same bad ideaskeep coming back and just get recycled.
I remember a few years ago,James Cameron came out with I mean he's

(46:30):
a gnostic, self proclaimed yeah,and there was some some theory on the
body of Jesus, and he broughtit up like it's a new thing.
I'm like, that was debunked twentyyears ago, but just because it's the
Internet, it pops back up againand it's just like, no, that's
garbage, and you can just kindof move past a lot of the garbage
because it is just the old stuffagain, you know. And Yeah,

(46:51):
I think check says I ground him. I think I usually just kind of
pooh pooh most of the stuff thatis that you see on the instagrams and
be like, ma's not a thingthat's it's that that's a you know,
go back fifteen years they were sayingthe same thing here, you know,
whatever it is, but having thatsort of longer so and then I actually
came to find out my mom toldme this that my my grandfather was in

(47:12):
like John Birch society was talking abouta lot of like conspiracy type things like
back in the sixties and seventies wherehe's like, I think the un like
this thing like just really like settlingsome of these things down, and was
like, oh, maybe this isactually hereditary. Yeah. I mean I
never got to talk to him aboutany of those things, but yeah,
I think that's that's sort of thatperspective that you get. And then I

(47:35):
just collect the books, you know, like, oh, someone brings it
up, I try to find thebook, so you have it. So
that's great. Well, I coulddefinitely see the Lord brought you two together,
and I see that there is thatbalance between you two and that you
know, like Chuck said that thatMAV is the grounder, and then Chuck

(47:55):
probably has more of more open tothings and might be a little bit of
you know, close to things,but in a good way. You know
that it's just kind of like theX Files dynamic, you know, one
is a little bit more open tothe supernatural. One you know, wants
to see it from their logical pointof view, you know, and then
of course, you know, Chucksees it from his truth or his I

(48:16):
mean, it's still logical to youknow, to see things in the supernatural
realm, you know. But yeah, I can totally see that. I
would have to say it may bethe same between Michael and I too,
that there's some similarities and differences here, you know, like I probably you
know, we see, we seethe picture of Michael and his lovely Brian.
Here it looks like he stepped away, So check it out. I'd

(48:38):
love to ask you both each whathas been your most interesting or remarkable supernatural
experience. It could be from God, the enemy, or a little bit
of both, or what have you. Let's just start off with check and
geez quite a bit just because ofthe environment I was in, like I

(48:58):
said earlier, with the witchcraft andall that stuff. But I think what's
solidified at least that I couldn't justifybecause for a moment, even believe it
or not, after I received Christ, I was kind of like, maybe
none of this is real, youknow, maybe you know, it was
all of my in dealing with deliverance, for years and people practicing witchcraft so

(49:24):
often, especially in the Latino community. It's pretty prevalent when they do it
for dumb raisins too. I justwant a wealthier life, or I like
that guy, I want to puthis name in this thing and do a
ritual at night. And they,I'm like, you're opening yourself up to
something stupid. Why would you trustthat a demon or well, they don't
know that. They think it's aspirit guide is going to influence another person

(49:45):
to love you, And that's noteven gonna work out. If it even
works out a little bit, it'sgoing to be a disaster later because everything
comes with the price. Because sometimeswhen you do the conjuring stuff and the
spirit magic and all that, andwhere you're asking for a blessing, you'll
yet the blessing, but you're goingto pay a very high price for that
later. It's not just like youknow, oh you got it, and
congratulations, you were able to manipulatethe spirit world. You know, it

(50:07):
doesn't work that way. So thatbeing said, dealing with deliverance was probably
the most Christian supernatural thing I've everseen where I've seen my co host,
actually my old co host Omar.We used to pray for people that were
demonically possessed, and we were young. He was probably nineteen, you know,

(50:28):
twenty when I saw him pray forthis very young girl, skinny,
very small, probably five foot nothing, very petite, get possessed. And
she was able to understand different languages, she knew things, She knew things
about people in the room that she'snever met before. She knew their private

(50:50):
life. Some of these demons.Some of these demons, for example,
there would be times where people wouldbe in the room praying against the demons,
and the demons will call them outand say, you know, you
have no right praying against me.You are cheating on your wife, you
know, and they would tell themthings that was personal that nobody else knew
but the demon knew, and sothey would they would start accusing people of

(51:12):
things that they were doing in private. And so a lot of the prayers
honestly were like, you know,unnecessarily extended. They needed to be shorter
because these demons were, you know, saying a lot of things that are
just not I mean, it's it'sdemonic activity. So they're really the thing
that the church did wrong was tryto interview demons and ask them questions about
the spirit world and things like that, and and so, yeah, you

(51:34):
don't want to do that. Sothey were, you know, it's a
bunch of stuff that I don't know. Some of the stuff was not true.
And obviously some of the stuff wastrue because they knew things. Because
people were embarrassed because they were like, oh my gosh, how did they
know. I don't even know thisgirl, how does she know about my
personal life? And to mention sheI mentioned she was five foot nothing,
super skinny, probably weighed no morethan one hundred pounds, very small,

(51:57):
and she picked up Omar like heweighed nothing. She had the power of
like two or three men, likenothing, and literally picked them up from
like his chest like this and liftedhim up with her hands, and not
only that, extended him out.So she was like holding him with her
hands extended. And that is alot of way. He was like one
hundred and fifty pounds at the time, and there's no way a little girl

(52:20):
like that with that frame can pickup a man like that and slammed them
against the wall. And so itwas pretty terrifying. And we would see
that quite a bit, but believeit or not. You get used to
it because that's the environment you kindof in, that's the ministry you're in,
so you're just kind of like notthinking about it, like, oh,
yeah, that was a pretty powerfuldemon when we got rid of it,
so kind of thing. And soI saw a lot of that,
you know, they some of themeven spoke different languages. Their voices would

(52:42):
change, or they would throw upblood or vomit or I've seen people even
throw up actual items that were thatwere witchcraft that they did that that somehow
we're in their stomach, you know, it was. And not to mention,
I saw stuff get pulled out ofmy own body when we were doing
witchcraft, and me and my motherthat it was like literal spiritual surgery.

(53:05):
And there was no way to explainit. And you can't say it's slight
of hand because it was. Imean, they must have been like David
Copperfield level if they were, Butthey lived in a little hut in Mexico,
So I don't know why they wouldwaste their time with copper Field slide
of hand stuff. But there wasan instance where and this is I guess
the non Christian spiritual experiences, wasshe was doing her prayer and she was

(53:28):
she had like a cross pendulum thing. She was doing it like this over
my body, like swinging it overmy body, doing the doing a prayer
some sort. And she lowered thecross, and as soon as the cross
touched my body from head to toe, salt started coming out of me,
like salt granules, like large amounts. And the more she did it,

(53:52):
I could see her hand touch meand they would just more of it,
more of it. And when Igot off the bed, like you could
see, it was like when someonedies and do that, you know,
but it was like all of thatsurrounded with salt everywhere that came out of
my body. And I was like, how how is this possible? Like
you know, and I saw her. My mom saw her pull out a
rusted nail from her stomach, andshe, you know, used like magic

(54:15):
and you can literally see. Mymom said she could see her go into
her belly button and literally open woundand pull out almost supposedly witchcraft out of
her own belly and pulled other thingsout of her too, and that we're
all part of this witchcraft that theydid on her. So she explained to
her. And I don't know ifthis part is true. But she explained

(54:37):
to her that she literally, youcan say, teleported that witchcraft from where
it was done and took it outof her, like it was like some
sort of portal thing, right,And I don't know if that's true.
Maybe, but I don't know ifthat was some sort of thing, but
that's what she experienced. And weboth were like, we left that place.
It was someplace in Mexico. Weleft that place completely jaw dropped.
And I was a child, soI was traumatized. I was like,

(55:00):
what did what just happened? Likewhat what did I see? Like I
remember using her restroom, and inher restroom she would keep a lot of
the creatures she would pick out ofpeople's bodies in water jars. Oh yeah,
what I'm I can remember how theylook like I wish I could draw,
And they're not They're not like anycreatures I've ever seen, you know.

(55:22):
So they looked they're like a mixtureof like you know what they call
those potato baby or what do theycall potato bugs, and then a mixture
of something like that with like likea centipede. It was like weird stuff,
dude. And I was like andI asked the lady, like,
what is what is all this?And she's like, that's stuff that I've
pulled out of people's bodies or thingslike that, and she you know,

(55:43):
the painful part was she pulled dead, dead people bones from me. Apparently
that was very painful and heard.I didn't see it. I saw it
from the next So that one Ikind of don't trust because I didn't see.
But I can tell you that ithurt a lot and I felt to
get pulled out of me, SoI don't know. So it's all I
can tell you for sure. That'swhat happened. You know, Go ahead,
man, this is where some ofthe like aliens, like the movies

(56:07):
Alien. Yes, yes, soit stuff. So it matches. It
could match with what people's abduction storiesare like and they feel them probing in
their bodies and all of that stuff. It really does kind of fit the
narrative. So in my opinion,it's a it's a good connection that the
alien phenomenon is connected to the spiritualphenomenon. So but yeah, so that's

(56:28):
the stuff that I kind of inthe Christian world and in the non Christian
world that solidified in my head asthe spirit world exists, and when I
was thinking of not being Christian anymoreor trying to be prove everything wrong and
be an atheist, I couldn't explainaway those experiences in any form or fashion,
which helped me get drawn back intoChristianity when I was like, Okay,

(56:52):
you know, I need to sortmyself out. And I mean that
was one of many things. Really, there was other parts of the story
there that really help let me comeback to Christ and really go full fledge
on on on exposing even some informationwhich is another long, long story,
but yeah, that that definitely helps. So those spiritual encounters definitely kept me

(57:12):
in my place. Wow, that'samazing. That's mind blowing. Oh my
gosh. That was actually what Iwas hoping that you would share, because
I remember you sharing that in aPREBIS episode, either fire Theft, or
maybe you were getting on somebody else'sshown. I know that Chuck had these
really weird spiritual experiences and that wasmanifested in the physical realm, and I

(57:34):
just can't put my finger on whatit was about. And so that's exactly
what I was interesting to show.Okay, that's right, and Michael's been
on the Joy spiracy theory as aguest as well. We would love to
have Basil on our ship. We'rejust waiting patiently. Awesome, I mean
awesome, Puck, thanks so muchfor sharing that, and and MAV tell

(57:57):
us any supernatural experiences and it doesn'thave to be similar to checks to be
interesting or exciting, even if it'sthat silltball voice of club, whatever you
want to share. Yeah, Ihave a couple when I was okay,
this this becomes part of my testimony, and it's not what I share very
often because there are a lot ofpeople that don't know what to do with

(58:20):
it. And I almost feel likea demonic interaction is almost more acceptable than
an experience you have with the Lordor with an angel, if you know
what I mean. That's just whatI've observed oftentimes. But the let's see,
I was I think I was aboutten or eleven again, a lot

(58:42):
of things going on in my lifearound that time. My dad was gone,
he was on a trip, somebusiness trip, and my mom I
remember, I don't remember all thedetails. I remember my mom was sick,
not anything major. She was justin bed, and I remember us
downstairs and I heard someone call myname so I got up and I went

(59:04):
upstairs and said, hey, doyou need something? And she was asleep.
So I went back downstairs. Happeneda second time, went upstairs,
and this time I said, hey, you know, kind of shook her
a little bit, she said andI said, oh, I did you
call for me? She said no, and she said and she was like
still half asleep, and she justsays, maybe it's like Samuel was like,

(59:29):
oh. So I went back downstairs. I sat in the quiet,
and I waited, and I heardLord call my name again. And that
was one of those things that reallyled me to sort of give over.
It's like, Okay, I clearlythis is my life's not my own,

(59:53):
you know, and so just andit wasn't I didn't get a message,
he didn't tell me I was superimportant, I was going to do anything
super important, but it was.It's been enough to you know, you
know, where you have those momentsof doubt or is this thing real?
Or is this And I've I've alwaysthought back to that just really simple calling

(01:00:19):
of voice of the Lord. Andthere's there's been maybe a couple of other
times where that's happened, not verballyin the same way. As this time.
But yeah, so that was thatwas a positive experience. I love
that. And you know, andI've had people say just some just you
know, some screen kid, youwere just here into TV somewhere. It

(01:00:42):
is like, I know what Iheard. I know what it was.
The other one, It's funny.I've I've gone to almost every continent,
gone to some really crazy places,and all of these like really heightened experiences,
supernatural experience I've had. It allhappened in California. But the other
one was in southern California. Wewere doing some street of angelism, and
people have their different styles of doingstreet evangelism. I usually go to a

(01:01:05):
cafe, order a drink, andI'll just sit down and just pray and
I will talk to somebody. Usuallythey'll come and talk to me. Sometimes
I'll go and talk to somebody.And so I did that. I think
it was in Santa Monica actually,and sitting in a cafe and I was
just praying, and then someone wassitting behind me. I didn't even really

(01:01:27):
notice them, and they started talkingto me, and so I turned around
and started talking and then it washave you all seen Lord of the Rings?
Fellowship of the ring. Oh yeah, first one. Yeah, so
many times. So you know thescene where you know, Bilbo's getting a
little a little heated with Gandolf andhe calls him out and he all of

(01:01:52):
a sudden starts growing in size andeverything gets dark. Yeah, that happened
with this guy where he started threateningme, telling me I had to leave,
telling me I didn't belong there,that I shouldn't talk to anybody that
needed to get out of that place. And I remember in the moment,
it felt like time slowed down.I look like in my periphery, it's

(01:02:15):
like people kind of slowed down.And his countenance changed and he got big,
and I remember just saying, I'mjust here to share about Jesus.
And I was a supernatural calm.I was just he would say something to
me and I'd just say, I'msorry, but i need to talk to

(01:02:37):
people about Jesus, so I'm notgoing anywhere. And then I just turned
around and sat back down, andno one did come up to me.
But then later when I looked back, I don't I didn't see him anymore.
But that was one of those veryweird I think power plays to try
to, you know, scare someoneaway, and yeah, I just wow.

(01:03:00):
And it's I mean, I can'tsay like I'm not the most like
courageous person. I'm not you know, doing insane things, not jumping off
mountains and out of airplanes. Butwhatever the Lord gave me that that moment,
I was just like, no,I'm not I'm not leaving. I'm
just gonna sit down because is whereGod wants me to be. And that

(01:03:20):
wasn't for me, that was fromthe Lord. And I ended up just
praying for for my friends. Andyeah, the two people got saved that
night, you know, so Ifelt like I was somewhere else like sort
of giving the assist, right,So I was I was fighting a different
battle over there while while my friendswere we're with some of the other people

(01:03:43):
that were seeking the lords. Soanyway, that's awesome that you held your
ground, that you just had thepeace of the Lord. You weren't intimidated
or fearful, that even though theguy was growing in stature the moodically probably
just like in Lord of the Rings, you still just poke your piece.
Yeah, and I can't really takecredit because when you're in that moment,

(01:04:03):
you know, I think someone saidone time, they're like we were reading
something about the martyrs, and theyjust said, I don't think I could
ever be a martyr. I waslike, well, you don't need to
be brave like that right now.You just need to be brave like that.
Then I'm to prepare you for thatwhen that happens. And so that's

(01:04:24):
you know, throw this in here, guys, after you finish your point.
I just I'm getting into the Wordof Faith movement. You know,
all the hate against Kenneth, acouple of ministries and those guys, It's
attracted me for some reason. It'slike, why do they hate them so
much? So I'm going and I'mlistening to these old Ermans, and I'm
finding out about this concept of buildingup your faith, building up your faith

(01:04:47):
in the Word all day, allthe time, scheduling your life around the
Word, and then your faith issuch that when a crisis happens. Briefly,
my I was the lumberjacking. Iwas on a prayer call. My
wife calls me, She's like,I can't find her one year old son.
I'm driving around looking for him onthis busy area. And instantly,

(01:05:10):
instead of panic, which is thenatural thing coming right now, police,
it was like, no, Satan, no, mister Dabel, you're not
coming in here out now, Isaid, Praise Scot. I know where
he's hiding in the house. Goback, Go back to the house.
She was. We were doing propertymanaging, she was cleaning it. It's

(01:05:33):
a huge house. He's hiding.Go back. He's fine. And then
I'm click, I am coming over, okay, speaking in tongues, speaking
in tongues, And sure enough hewas fine. He was just hiding under
the pool table, just being Hedoes this thing where you call his name,
he doesn't answer. So but buildingup your faith in the moment of
crises, you have the faith torelease it and you're not. So what

(01:05:57):
I'm getting is that we can infront these topics that we're getting into.
And I'd like to ask you,actually, Jeraln has instructed me also that
we are going to talk about ourfavorite CONSPI reality theory next. So maybe
Chuck, if you want to takethat one. What's your favorite CONSPI reality
theory? But I just want tosay this, like, we're going to
see these alien things show up,whether they're fake or real. You've had

(01:06:20):
a lot of experience in the demonic. I've been raised by exorcists, like,
we're going to have to have faithto confront this stuff. So let's
get into the word. That wasmy two cents and forget well and just
to what you were saying MeV.I really this is such a great conversation
you guys. I really appreciate this, and I'm going to stop hogging the

(01:06:41):
mark so that the fire Theft radiolisteners don't email me and say, who's
why's Michael hogging that. That's whyI have my own rant show. I
do my own rant probably happy probablyFinally, Chuck shuts up. We're interviewing
you guys. We literally introduce thingyou guys, and I'm getting to know
you guys better too, because Ilove your show. I wish I could

(01:07:03):
listen to everyone too. It's justthere's so much going on now, and
when you do a daily show,you really you know, I kind of
tapped out of almost all podcasts.And we're both on the Fringe radio network
here, you know, you knowhow it is, and so this is
kind of like joining the you know, we're getting our enterprises lined up here,
you know, these star fleet shipsand you know, on screen.

(01:07:26):
So anyway, Chuck, so tellus what's your favorite conspi reality theory.
That's a good question. I don'tknow. I'm it's hard to place it
for me now. It's hard toplace it for me now because my mind
is in the place of they allconnect. Even if the ones that were
conspiracy aren't really real, they havea purpose in the psyops that they're made

(01:07:49):
for, you know what I'm saying. And so it's hard for me to
say, oh, that's just conspiracynot reality things like that. But if
I had to choose, what Ifeel is more conspiratorial and it's just part
of our reality. Actually, issomething that's not so fringy. I think

(01:08:13):
it's just something that we need topay attention to. In the fringy world,
is how well you know your Bibleand in the world of the Red
Pill. Because we're about to starta series MAVNDI, and as we're like

(01:08:33):
talking it out, we're realizing it'sit might be as long or maybe longer
than hell Hydra. And it comesdown to this, because I have a
problem with how much fringy and conspiracystuff out there is out there that is

(01:08:53):
so out of context from the Bible. And sometimes they even use the Bible.
They'll quote the Bible. They'll evensay all this this is in the
Bible, by the way, andit kind of perks the ears of Christians
or people that are Christians are andare involved in the fringe. And then
further down the path, that samepopular podcast will turn super new aging.
You know, I can off thetop of my head, I can tell

(01:09:14):
you, like, Sean Ryan showis huge right now because it says all
the right things you want to hear. Then you know the way the government's
screwing with everyone, the whole COVIDnineteen lines and the vaccine and YadA YadA.
Yeah, I mean everything you wantto hear in the fringe you world,
And so you're like, oh,yeah, this is my show.
I love this show. You hadanother show, but then he had as
a whole episode where he's talking toBilly Carson from Forbidden Knowledge and he's elevating

(01:09:41):
God. Yeah, but in acompletely new age, completely unbiblical way,
and it drives people off the deepend that are not knowledgeable in the Bible,
especially Christians. So if you don'tknow your Bible well enough and you're
diving into the fringe, that ohman is so deadly to the Christian and
so I feel like that's a conspiracyconsp reality that it's not as dressed,

(01:10:08):
it's not addressed as often as I'dlike, because it's this world of the
fringe is growing so much. It'sits own platform, it's and I mean
in many ways, it's its ownbusiness for some people, like they live
off of this stuff, and yetthey can be easily swayed doctrinately because they
don't they don't dive as deep intothe Bible as they do into conspiracies.

(01:10:30):
And that's a huge problem for mebecause then they're you know, questioning.
They'll post things too. I'll seea lot of random posts like they're questioning
why didn't God do this for me? Or why why this? Or why
that? Or why why does Goddo this in the Bible and not over
here? And it's like you're I'mlike, dude, you don't understand the
basic context of the Bible here,and you're you have a platform and you're
pushing all this stuff, and thenwhat good is it? And if you're

(01:10:53):
not being a barean and and notyou know, really showing how all all
of your questions are answered in theBible. It's like, for me,
pretty basic, but for others mightnot so be so basic. And it
took a lot of time for meto get there and to be comfortable with
me saying, for example, ohwhat about this in the Bible and be
like, I don't know. We'llsee what happens, you know. And

(01:11:15):
I'm totally okay with not knowing becausethat's part of faith and it's okay.
But if you do know, thenyou know address it. But don't you
know, don't be too quick toaddressing a situation that you think is biblical
and you don't know it. AndI feel like that's a huge conspiracy led
literally by Satan, by spiritual forces. That is kind of a psyop,

(01:11:36):
and a lot of these fringy showsare not really aware of it, and
so you got to be careful whatyou consume. I mean, I myself
follow a lot of pages that Ilike what they have to say when it
comes to certain conspiracies, Like Ifollow like three or four mud flood Tartaria
pages and all that, and Ifind all that stuff incredibly fascinating. But

(01:11:58):
I was looking hard for a Christianpage of that. None. There's not
a single one, not a singleone in all of them are weird.
And completely new age and stuff likethat, and I'm like, what's going
on here? And it happens witha lot of modern conspiracies, even the
Aliens, and yeah they're real,but it's a new age version, Like
you have the David Ike's of theworld right, and you have their types

(01:12:21):
of followers. And it comes downto that, how well do you understand
your Bible? And if you dounderstand it, not just the Bible,
but what is God's will? Howdoes he work when you see like I
would highly recommend like read Unseen RealmReversing Herm on and understand how God works
and interacts with human beings. Andyou're not going to be so confused with

(01:12:43):
a lot of things that happen aroundthe world. You're going to be like,
oh, okay, So it leadsup to this thing. There's a
purpose, there's an already but notyet Kingdom of God happening, and it
kind of puts you in a placewhere you're like, stop tripping, you
know, stop tripping about things thatyou don't get. Stop tripping about eschatology
and which rapture is it? Is? It? Mid post trib mid tribune
which drives me crazy? Me personally, I'm like, bro, it doesn't

(01:13:05):
matter which which kind of rapture itis. You got work to do.
You can die tomorrow, bro,So get to work for the Kingdom and
we'll see what happens. I hopethere's a pre pre trib I don't.
I highly doubt it, but Ireally hope that there is one. And
I hate to say it, butI would rather not go through a bunch
of tribulation, you know. Butthat's just me. I don't know who.
You know, if you want tosuffer and get tortured and everything,

(01:13:29):
and I know there's some guys outthere that kind of ideal. It's like,
heck, yeah, bro, I'mdown for that war. Dude.
Well you know, if it happens, it happens. But I'm not.
I'm not really down, you know. I'm just going to see, you
know, May God give me strengthwhen it's time. But my point is
is sometimes not knowing those things,and that's why the show is what it
is. I I look at allof these things, conspiracy analysts I like

(01:13:49):
to say all the time, andthen see, like cool, those are
all possibilities. But how well doyou know your Bible? How well do
you know God's will, you know, and if you know that, well,
I think it'll level you out inany conspiracy you want to dive into.
And then you'll it'll make you know, you won't get too worried about
it. You won't get worried aboutyou know, Berenstein bears or Barren Stain

(01:14:12):
bears, like oh they're changing,my gosh, and so just just relax,
you know, take it easy.God's still in control. The Vidian
changed the Bible, bro, Likeyou know, I know you think they
did with the with the CERN andyet yet I'm like, no, no,
you just never read it, right, Bro. You never took the
time. Some of those verses werecompletely like you just didn't read it,
you know. And I don't know, maybe maybe I'm I'm I'm side stepping

(01:14:33):
here and my people might not begetting what I'm saying with CERN and this
whole you know what they call itBandella effect. But I mean, I
gotta tell you, in the beginning, it kind of got me and I
was like, wait, what's goingon? And I know it's a possibility
that things can change and dimensionality andall that stuff, I get it,
But to to say that they arenow in control of time, you know,

(01:14:54):
and they change things completely. I'mlike, dude, that's absurd.
God and in charge of time.You know, he's gonna be all right.
And even if they were able todo that one hundred percent, God
is sovereign and he's like, dude, I'm gonna change it back. It's
not a big deal. I'm incontrol, dude, I got it.
And so you have all the weirdestancillary things too that people focus on,

(01:15:15):
you know, and just say thisis super important. It's like, it's
actually not important at all. Really, it's not that important. I'm not
really, it's not as important asthe resurrection of Jesus Christ and right forgiveness
from sins and healing from disease.Although I do believe that there is the
possibility of time travel and altering reality. I had an intercestor friend tell me
that went before the Lord asked aboutthis about that very not even mentioning or

(01:15:41):
knowing about the Mandel effect, butfinding out that there were time travel missions
to try to stop the Bernstein Bearsfrom ever existing or certain things like that.
So I won't get into the details, but basically the message was there
were actual missions to go back intime and to destroy things that were wholesome,
good, just bringing good traditional moralsto kids. But the things that

(01:16:10):
were covered by the blood of Jesus, under prayer, under the Lord's shadow
were unable to be altered by thosetime bandits. So you can take that
or leave that. But that apparentlythe only thing that could do is just
change the name a little bit sothat their illuminati overlords wouldn't beat them too
much when they came back. It'sthe story. But it makes me think

(01:16:30):
about that, like we should prayover everything we do. But it goes
with what I was saying, right, and even if they're able to change
it, I'm like, stop tripping, man, God's still sovereign and he's
going to change it. There yougo. And then the biggest thing is
is you know we're still we canstill spread the kingdom and they can change
little things things like that. Whatever, Okay, But I mean it's very
simple. I know it's a badname to say these days now is if

(01:16:54):
you know his history, But Iused to listen to Rabbi Zacharia's quite a
bit, and then he brought upone thing where he was talking about the
simplicity of the of the Gospels andwhen Jesus would speak, so by the
end of the New Testament, wehave well over six hundred commandments. Right,
there's all kinds of things that yougot to do with this, with
that, with the food, notthe food festival, YadA YadA, all
kinds of stuff. And then Jesuscomes along and he simplifies the ten commandments

(01:17:17):
to two. You know, loveGod above all things, and then do
with your neighbor as you would dounder yourself. And love your neighbor.
And those two things encapsulates the tencommandments because if you love your neighbor,
you're not going to do adult tree, you're not going to lie to them,
you're not going to murder them.And literally those two things so simpleatly
is it encapsulates all of those thingsinto into one thing. So understanding the

(01:17:41):
Bible ultimately in the Gospel is verysimple. And if they change all these
other verses, YadA, YadA,YadA YadA, it doesn't matter because it's
so simple that God can transform ordo what he needs to do in those
two things that have not changed.Love Him above all things, love Jesus,
and you know and understand Crucifixion happened, even though Mad TV and the

(01:18:02):
Terminator try to stop it. Iremember that that was cool. That's a
funny thing. But they tried tostop it. It didn't work. It
didn't work, man, They couldn'tdo it. And Jesus even stopped it
in Mad TV. It was funny. And so you can't do it.
And so again there's all these littlethings. They just they go off the
rails. And it's because you don'tunderstand the Bible in context, in the

(01:18:24):
broader picture. What's the bigger picture? What are we doing here as ambassadors
for Christ? What are we doinghere as imagers of God? What does
it even mean to be an imagerof God? Which many people think means
some other thing. And it's like, dude, it doesn't mean you look
like him. You are His authorityon earth, man, like you have
authority or spreading the kingdom. It'sa political term that you are making the

(01:18:45):
kingdom bigger. We are to makecitizens of the Kingdom of God here.
And so that's it. Once youbelieve everything else, it doesn't really matter
what is happening around the world,what political conspiracy is happening. They're cloning
people, there's aliens, come in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
agree with all of those possibilities.I'm not saying it's not important. Obviously,

(01:19:05):
that's what the show is about,fire theft radio. What I'm saying
is, ultimately, in the end, your job is to make citizens of
the Kingdom of God. So knowyour Bible and move forward. You know.
Oh, it's my turn out.This is one that I've talked a

(01:19:27):
little bit to Chuck about. It'sit's not I don't think we've really formalized
all the thoughts around it. I'mstill thinking through myself. But there's this
it's this idea that the entertainment thatwe get versus the news that we get,
so people look at the news andsay that's that's truth, and people
look at entertainment and say that's fiction. I actually think it's backwards. I

(01:19:48):
think they tell truths in fiction,and what we're delivered as supposed to be
our news is what's giving a fakereality to so many people. And what
I think what a lot of itis, it's the weaponization of hate and
fear, and it's it's honestly whatFrancis Schaeffer warned about. If you haven't

(01:20:10):
read how then shall we live?One of the later chapters talks about media
and how media will be used toshape reality and to shape truth for those
who you know, don't understand whatcapital tea truth really is. And I
think there's a weaponization of hate andfear. So, for instance, we're
going to a political season. Everybodywants to talk politics. Let's all just
be honest. Most of the peoplevoting are not voting for a candidate.

(01:20:33):
They're voting against another one. It'sthe weaponization of hate. You end up
going in saying I can't let thatperson be president, so I have to
vote for someone else. That's Imean, if you really talk with people
about it, usually that's the reasonthey're voting for someone. They might even
say I don't really like that candidate, I just can't let that guy win.
So even in that where it's thisweaponization of fear and hate, that

(01:20:55):
it's still a form of control.Right. That's why I even if if
an entity does does arrive and youhave fear, that's a form of worship.
That's a form of giving over powerto fear, someone else is giving
them power and power over you.That's so true. And so if you
start to think that way, whatare the things that we're fearful of?

(01:21:18):
What? What? Who is it? Just listen to a podcast. I
know none of us listen to podcastsanymore, but oh it was the No
Agenda Show, which if you don'tlisten to to the No Agenda Show,
should listen to the No Agenda Show. The Lord saved hell us about it.
Adam Curry. So, Adam Curryis the inventor of podcasting. He's
called the pod father. He andof course, oh yeah, the other

(01:21:40):
guy's name. Actually he was interviewedon Canary Cry because over the past year.
I mean, there's a lot ofthings in the uptude. He actually
came to the Lord. So he'sa believer now, so it's even it
even adds in this thing. Butthey do a lot of media deconstruction and
they they so in talking about someof these things, the kind of lost
my train of thought from when Iwas I was going to But the idea
is that if if you are toldsomething in the media, there's this consensus

(01:22:06):
that happens. We're all afraid ofthis thing. Oh that's what he said.
What did the algos tell you tobe afraid of today? Right?
Everybody has that and so the reactionis either you fight against it, or
the reaction is you try to finda way to run. You know,
they do that fight or fight thing. So you have a group of people
who are trying to either fight ita group of people trying to run away
from it. But what did thealgos tell you to be afraid of today?

(01:22:27):
And that normally becomes the topic ofconversation, whether it's China, emp
the eclipse, Oh, my gosh, the eclipse. My goodness, Yeah,
it's in the back of all ourminds now because that's people are calling
me. Like during church on Sundaymorning, Pasham, we got to talk
about the eclipse. It's like,you know, it's interesting stuff, but
it's not. But they happen ona schedule, right, this is not

(01:22:50):
a surprise that this eclipse is happening. And people like, but it's the
sign of no it's over Ninava.It's like, if it was the sign
of Ninava, why isn't going overNina? Why isn't it going over the
Middle East? Why is it theUnited States? Why? Why? Why
that? Why are we so importantto get Oh, God's marketing United States?
I don't see United States anywhere inthe Bible. Why is everyone focusing

(01:23:14):
on that? And it's in youknow, jump off on fifty different cliffs
to see what's going on. Butwhen you start to see that, it
builds the consensus of hate and fear. So you have collectively and it's who
agrees on what's the most important thingto be afraid of? That's what's driving
most things. People are like,oh my gosh, we all need guns,
or we all need food, orwe all need whatever. Apparently I

(01:23:39):
need books because that's the only thingthat my wife and I buy. But
it's the idea is like, whatare you afraid of? And that's what
people their whole life is now aroundthem. So if you look at the
news as this is where I'm gettinginformation, it's just leading you to hate
and fear. And so to leavethe hate and fear, what do you
do escapism? You go watch theentertainment and you watch, you read fiction.

(01:24:00):
You listen to fiction different than youdo anything else. You are open
to anything that that fiction gives you. Generally, that's what a lot of
how a lot of people treat theirentertainment. So that's a lot of these
ideas. What does everybody call itnow? You're either a red pill or
blue pill. It's coming from thematrix, that thing which has now become

(01:24:24):
so many people's reality, how theyshape their that came from a movie and
now all of a sudden, it'sthe most important thing that people identify with.
Mm hmm. It's it's so funnyhow these things like all of a
sudden become so important for so manypeople, because that's how well, that's
how the Lord has given us somany through narrative, through story, through
symbol that concept of myth right thatHeiser's talked about. Brian Goadawa talks about

(01:24:48):
this idea of myth. A mythis super important because it helps us to
understand the world, understand virtues,understand principles. That's how we build our
lives as far as our understanding ofthings. So many people build a morality
through stories. That's why Jesus taughtin stories eyes to hear, in ears
to eyes to see, ears tohear. That that mentality that Jesus had.

(01:25:13):
He would tell a story and thereare people who would respond to I
understand that, who would come toand maybe they couldn't put it all together.
Why do you think end time stuff? Is given in symbols because you
can't destroy it. You can't destroythe symbol of a dragon and a beast
and all these different things. It'sthat's how it survives the generations. Is
this myth that endures? So evenlike this the mark of the beast?

(01:25:36):
Oh my gosh, how many differentpeople are talking about the mark of the
beast the biggest thing that people areSo this is this kind of ends my
point. This is like I thinkthe slam dunk mark of the beast.
What does everybody say about the marketof the beast? What is the scary
part of the market the beast thatif you don't get the mark and the
beast, you can't what buy orsell? Buy or sell? Yeah,

(01:25:58):
you know that's not the totality ofthe mark of the beast. Right,
everybody focuses laser focuses on buy andsell. The second part of that description
is you worship the beast. Noone talks about the fact that to get
the mark of the beast you haveto worship the beast. Done cares about
that, right, Everyone talks aboutbuying itselling because that's your part, especially

(01:26:20):
in America, right, the consumer'smindset of America you know, everyone is
so hyper focused on I can't buyor sell. They're not even talking about
the fact that their friends, theirneighbors, their loved ones would have to
worship the beast. Why is thatnot brought up? Why is that not
the most important aspect? Because that'sfor some reason, that's not as scary

(01:26:43):
as I can't buy or sell.So that's what gets talked about all time.
Wow, that's awesome that you broughtthat up. I do think about
both, and but I do understandwhat you're saying now is that it seems
like when people talk about mark ofthe beast, the ear mark is generally
or the focus is generally you can'tbuy or sell. Oh that's so scary.

(01:27:04):
What am I going to do?But more than anything is that once
a person receives the mark of thebeast, whatever that is microchip or brainship
or whatever it is, or likesome sort of I think I saw some
video about this band aid with allthese folks that in which they win,
which this so called band aid overthe skin that's permanent that would actually disseminate

(01:27:29):
a microchip and the bax I forgetso different period. But whatever, the
mark of the Beast is first andforemost. That person will be eternally separated
from the Lord at that moment ofinsemination or insertion for the rest of eternity,
and that should be the most troubling, disturbing aspect bar mend for sure.

(01:27:55):
So that that is interesting that youbrought that up. Math. Those
were excellent answers. Thank you guys, both for explaining what your reality theories,
the most interesting kids reality theories inyour mindset's are. Michael, did
you have the next question? Well, I was just gonna We just mentioned
our mutual friend Basil and Gons fromCanary Cry Radio news talk interviewing the Father

(01:28:20):
of podcasting, and I was justcurious because I heard that interview as well
when I was doing some part timeFedEx driving just we we really needed money
and I'm like, let's learn howto do that, and it's hard.
I respect your local drivers guys,they work really hard. But I listened
to so many podcasts at that time, and I listened to that whole interview

(01:28:42):
with the Podfather, and I'm justwondering, if you follow have you heard
anything since then, because I heardthey were doing this new like podcast two
point zero kind of making it likevalue for value and breaking away from the
evil Internet Web. I guess Appleand iTunes and everything. Have you heard
any up on any of that inthe last few years? Oh yeah,
he so, Adam Curry, Adamhe he And I feel bad. I

(01:29:06):
can't remember the other guy's name,and him and the other guy well you
should feel hey, no, Ishould. But they talked about like initially
with podcasting, he was very technological, Like the reason is, like I'd
have to wait three hours to downloadsomething to see it or to listen to
it. So podcasts became a thingwhere it could download in the background just
let you know it was downloaded,right, So it was like revolutionary because

(01:29:28):
technology was at that place. Andnow what's going with two point zero is
basically now taking advantage, leveraging technologyto make it to where you can't censor
it, you can't get rid ofit. It's there forever. Even using
something called the interplanetary Filing system tohow's podcasts, these things are basically indestructible.

(01:29:50):
You know, you basically have toshut down the entire Internet and electricity
to get rid of them all becauseof how the Internet works, interconnectivity of
networks to say two point zero.Podcasting two point zero is probably the massive
safeguard to censorship. So a lotof people think like, oh, Spotify
can take down a podcast. Noone can actually take down a podcast.

(01:30:11):
It's just an RSS feed. Youcan always go back and find it.
Yes, so the platform. Sothat's one of the lies they put out
there. Oh Apple took these down. No they didn't. It's just in
the app it blocks it. That'sthey can't take down a podcast. It's
there forever. So you know,it's podcasting two point Oho has so many
cool advantages. They're doing some coolthings. You mentioned value for value.

(01:30:34):
The value for value thing is somethingthat they did from almost the beginning.
But they've they've been running this podcastfor like almost sixteen years, for over
sixteen years now, yeah, andso this no Agenda show, and they've
been on the value for value thingfor almost since the beginning, which is
just hey, if you have value, just just give it, which sounds
so normal to us because that's whatchurches do, right, just put money

(01:30:57):
on the plate. That sort ofidea. There might be a standard for
it to say, okay, tenpercent or tie or something else, but
really it's just putting money in theplate and so that idea, that concept
has worked for them for the longesttime, and now it's being applied to
different things. They're doing concerts now, like live concerts where people can just
listen to this live podcast which isalso a thing. Live podcasting is a

(01:31:20):
thing to be able to just givethat you can give through the Lightning Network.
You can give cryptocurrency out and youcan actually donate to people and they
can extract it and actually make moneyright there. And so they're doing some
of these cool things, and Ithink one of the cool things to that
might be able to happen. SomethingI would like to work on is using

(01:31:41):
RSS as a distribution for biblical trainingteaching in a unified way. It's there
forever they add things like you canadd chapters, images, different things,
images to podcasts. Oh yeah,yeah, so if you have a modern
podcasting you can you can make itso it changes the picture that you see

(01:32:02):
all the time. So you canimagine for teaching, you're teaching a thing
to put a slide up and thenwhen the chapter changes is something else.
Right, So there's a lot ofthese cool things, which kind of leads
to kind of where my heart's atis this new sort of endeavor in Uganda.
I have this connection with some trainingBible training centers over there, with
that church planning organization where I wantto try to use RSS to be able

(01:32:24):
to record these trainings, to havethem available and actually have a translator record
with me initially, but to beable to have trainings available. So anyone
anywhere can can can pick it up. And Uganda even the cell phones,
right, a lot of people havesmartphones even there, and the cell networks
there are pretty good because the otherinfrastructure is not all that great. So

(01:32:45):
the distribution method is amazing and sowhy not use that to leverage Why not
use that leverage that technology to distributebiblical training. There's no reason why you
have to hide it behind the doorsof seminary. Just put it out there,
let people get it, give someguidance around it. And so anyway,

(01:33:06):
that's some of those cool things.And if you're not on a modern
podcasting app, you should think aboutit and maybe look into dropping some of
your podcast episodes into that index tosee if we can do some cool things
like you can even do video.So oh right, I know Spotify for

(01:33:27):
podcasters have that availability and I havenot used Spotify for podcasters. I've only
used s Freaker, and then ofcourse it disseminates to Apple Podcasts, Spotify
and what have you. But Iknow that I've seen videos on Apple podcasts
as well as Spotify podcasters, soI'll have to look into that. I

(01:33:47):
think everybody, even people listening,I think that they should start a podcast
too. I mean, I thinkthat's probably the best thing to do,
is when a person loves to listento podcasts, that if the Lord leads
them, that they should start onetoo. And you know, we're not
in competition with each other. We'reall in collaboration, you know, if
we serve Jesus, we should youknow, see each other as brothers and

(01:34:08):
sisters in Christ. You working towardsthe common gold and and you know,
going against the common enemy. AndI think that that's awesome that we're doing.
That is really networking and connecting andwhat have you. So awesome,
awesome. Well, you guys dida great job during your testimonials and answering
our questions that we really love youguys in Christ and we really appreciate you

(01:34:30):
guys, and we definitely want toboost radio and so we just want to
just make sure that our listeners knowwhere to go to listen to your show
talk a Mad. So how dothey listen or watch your show sure Fire
at Thefradio dot com if they wantto just stream it, I recommend people
do go there so they can alsoleave comments and interact with other people's comments.

(01:34:50):
I started talking about that, andsome people did kind of interact.
But the primary download where people seemto get at most is usually Spotify or
Apple Podcasts, and that's where mostof the listeners are. But I'm just
trying to wean people over to theto the actual website so they can have
some interaction with other people and myselfsometimes it goes I have to go in

(01:35:13):
there and actually approve the comments,So I do that every now and then
I do do forget but or soas soon as I approve them, you'll
see them pop up there and youcan interact with other people. But because
you get a lot of spam commentsand stuff like that, I don't obviously
don't want to just run amok orwhatever. I always delete that stuff and
things like that. But that's whereyou can find us. If you want
to dm us, get a holdof us, Fire Theft, Radio,

(01:35:34):
Instagram and Facebook. We can youknow, you can send your questions there.
If you have questions, prayer requests, complaints, send them over.
It's all good. It's all goodfor us. Then, Yeah, did
I miss anything? Map? AndI think that was it right? No,
for fire Theft, that's those arethe places. Yeah. I have
a little bit stuff on YouTube,but we don't use YouTube that much.

(01:35:54):
We use it for the occasional livestream when we have an idea of something.
I used to post the episodes there, which I will still, but
I lost my my my my YouTubeperson because I had a person for YouTube,
so now I need to do itmyself, and I just thought I
don't have the time. YouTube isas a bad, toxic place guys for

(01:36:16):
truth Warriors, they will, yeah, it is. I'm not really I'm
not really like interested. I mean, you have a pretty steady downloader downloader
streaming from the Apple podcasts and Spotify, so I'm not really concerned with it.
I just I just literally have itopen just for like those live streams
every now and then I do connectto it with other podcasts through it sometimes

(01:36:40):
like Stephen Prows like the Fifth Horseover there, that's about it. Yeah,
so yeah, so that's where youcan find us. I d I
dropped some stuff on on Instagram.I'm on Twitter. I don't know why.
Oh what's your Twitter X. I'musually either math Pilgrim or Maverick Pilgrim
or the one Maverick Pilgrim on Instagrambecause someone took some all av Pilgrim Pilgrim

(01:37:04):
on on Twitter. Honestly, it'sa lot of that is to share,
you know, whatever whatever pops up. Sometimes it's things that are kind of
ruminating that Chuck and I are talkingabout. But I've and I just put
something out on Instagram where I kindof announced I'm starting the nonprofit. A
lot of that isn't connection to thethings that are going on in Uganda.

(01:37:25):
It's not all settled yet, soI don't want to like announce a bunch
of things. But that's that's thedirection that that I'm going to be going.
So I'm going to be starting anew channel. It's going to focus
on a lot of those types ofthings. And some of the Baxtraine is
being built. So so yeah,I've got So that's not really announcement of
anything, it's just something maybe somethingyou know will happen someday. So that's

(01:37:46):
great. We're excited to see thenew and different directions that the Lord is
taking you both with your podcast andmissionary stuff, and that's amazing. Grave
God all right, guys, Twitter, you have some really funny things on
there. Guys, you guys gotto go follow Fire Theft Radio on Twitter
and mav Pilgrim. It's great.Godzilla never attacked Denmark because he stepped on

(01:38:12):
the lego HQ. I think Ifollow you both on Instagram. I'm pretty
sure because I've seen both of yourguys' staff. I believe that, don't
you guys have one for Fire TheftRadio and then you guys both have individual
Instagram now right, Okay, Ithink so we're I'm gonna make sure that
I have all of this in theshow notes. You guys can follow check,

(01:38:33):
you can follow mav this Radio Instagram. I know that that's problem.
I would say between Instagram and Facebook, I think Instagram is getting more popular
because so's more easily accessible. Youdon't have to deal with some of the
stuff that you have to deal withon Facebook. Yeah. I rarely get
censored on on Instagram. I don'tknow everybody gets a lot of hate there.
But like I tried to post stuffon Twitter, it was blown up

(01:38:54):
real quick and it got taken downreal fast. Like I really Oh so
I had more shoes with TikTok,so I was hopeful interest. But the
last episode I did with the DoctorMonzo, I mean I posted something and
it was getting like thousands and thousandsof you really quick, like really in
a couple of minutes, and thensuddenly they were like removed it, like

(01:39:15):
it's gone completely, and like,ah, really, that was an excellent
episode. I liked that. Ireally liked that show. The latest show
with Doctor Monzo, that's awesome.I would we would love to have him
on board to talk about holistic health. And yeah, we did two with
him and we got another one coming, so it's going to be three of
them. So oh great, great, you guys get some of the greatest

(01:39:39):
guests whatsoever. All right, well, guys, get the gals. Whoever
was listening or watching check them outon fire theft radio dot com by R
E T H E F T dotcom. And so thank you so much,
you guys. We really appreciate you, because if you're listening on on
fire Theft Radio. We're Michael Bashamand jerylen Kozak. That's Strange Clock podcast

(01:40:00):
and the cross Files Podcast now knownas cross Files, and check out all
of our shows. We've actually donea lot of crossing the streams with our
guests, so to speak. Andyou can donate to us and continue our
endeavors because we've got a lot ofpeople coming down the bike and it's a
lot of a lot of interest.There's just God is doing things through this

(01:40:21):
show, so we appreciate it.And my show is called Spirit Force as
well, Faithbooks dot com, FringeRadio Network dot com. We're all on
there. God bless you guys.Yeah, of course, and send send
send us those things. We'll postthat on our show notes so they can
click on you. Oh yeah,and then and then then that way We're
all good. Yes, yes,you visit us at crosspiles dot org.

(01:40:45):
Please pray for us, and ifthe glove leads you, please donate to
either one of our shows because itreally helps out it. Pray the cost.
Okay, so please please please goto crossfiles dot org, c r
O s s at Bylies dot org. You could listen or watch any of
our episodes and if the Lord leadsyou, please pray about us, pray

(01:41:09):
for us, and donate to us. Because it is really a ministry of
Cloth Fire, Theft radio as wellas Cross Files podcasts. It is a
ministry. It reaches out to peoplethat would normally not step on into a
church, and so you're really furtheringthe ministry and really touching people's hearts and
lives. So we really appreciate youguys listening and or watching, So thank

(01:41:29):
you so much, you guys forlistening or watching the Cross Files podcast.
I'm Jerry, I'm Michael, andwere we were really blessed to interview Chuck
and mab Bhie everybody. Thank you, thank you so much. It was
great. Thank you to the PityI co

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